38. The Ninth Gate

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:04):
So you are a ransom now? You.
Don't know what death is? Be afraid.

(00:30):
Welcome to the madness. We are the Mouths of Madness,
your new favorite podcast for horror movie reviews.
We're coming to you live tonightfrom the Dungeon of Doom.
This is our episode 38 on the 1999 The 9th Gate.
My name is Kevin and let me introduce you to the other

(00:50):
members of Madness. First we have Dan.
Dan, are you excited to cover this movie tonight?
Bro I am so excited to cover this movie.
I got my my occult robe nicely pressed and fresh from the dry
cleaner just for this episode. I was going to ask if you're
naked under there, but I don't. I don't know if I want it's a.
Surprise, it's a secret. Next we have the mayor of
Halloweentown. It's wait, where is he?

(01:13):
Guys? Have you seen him?
Oh, hey, guys. Hey guys.
What? Do you got there?
Gentlemen, I present to you the collection of the finest, the
choicest articles of horror artifacts from horror movies
that has ever been collected. It took me, it took me my almost
my entire fortune and years of going from shady go betweens and

(01:37):
bribing and doing whatever it took to get these artifacts into
my collection and I present it to you gentlemen tonight.
It smells like a grandmother's basement in here.
Bear claw. What?
What is this? Oh.
Get in here. Oh are these the the glasses
from they live try these on here.
They are One of the lenses popped out.

(01:58):
I fair clay. I don't, I don't think these
are. I don't think there is.
The Timu guy said that they were.
So I have to take his words. Yeah, I have to trust them.
I don't. Know, yes.
All right, let's see if we got any more things we can pull out
here. Hang on, what is this?
Is that the note on it says it'sMccreedie J&B bottle?
That's right, that's the bottle that infected everybody in the

(02:20):
thing. Well, let's pop it and see if we
can maybe smell any J&B on here.Wait, wait a minute.
This doesn't smell like J&B. A little bit prudent.
Yeah, I don't, I don't know BearClaw, if this is that's.
What they said don't. Know.
We have to authenticate these. It's kind of looking like piss
in a bottle if you want my honest opinion.

(02:41):
That's what I was gonna say. It smells like piss a little
bit. Oh God.
Well, gentlemen here, this is one of my prized possessions,
really one of the crowning achievements of the collection.
It's Tim Capello's dog Chains from the Lost Boy.
Whoa, whoa. Yeah.
That might actually be worth hold their glory.

(03:01):
You can feel the music and rizz coming, just radiating from
them. And it went down.
Wait a minute. Wait.
Bear claw? Is that Tim Capello's sweat on
there? I don't know if that's Tim
Capello's sweat. They said it was.
I don't know his glistens or in the light of day.
Logan, get the Q-tips. Yeah, I don't know about that,
man. Let's look around this box.
What the hell? What is this?

(03:23):
It looks like a little flu. My goodness is that the
leprechauns flu? It is.
It's straight from the leprechaun, spray painted gold.
I really don't want to mess withthe leprechaun.
I mean, I like this. I'll smoke some weed with him,
but that's about it for me. And then finally, gentlemen,
here is one of one of the proudest and something that I'm

(03:44):
going to need everybody's help authenticating.
Dick Warlock's lucky jockstrap used in the production of some
of the choices horror movies that have come across our eyes
this. Season and grab the gloves, man.
Bask in the gentlemen. I think I'm gonna be sick.

(04:05):
It's charred a little bit. I don't know if this is
authentic. Don't wave that thing in front
of me. Oh my goodness, what a prize.
Prize possession. This is from Dick himself, the
Dick Warlock. Oh, it's a thick Warlock

(04:26):
production. What is that on the side?
Is that pubic? Hair.
Oh, for your wallet. Here you go.
Actually, there are a lot of other great horror movie
podcasts out there, but what separates us from the other ones
is that we're going to be givingyou the older versus younger
generation perspective. Myself, Dan, and Bear Claw were
all born in the 1980s, while my son Logan was born in the 2000s.

(04:51):
So this is the clash of the generations.
Dang, we're living up to our reputation as degenerates.
Break it down. The peace, they resist us.

(05:12):
I thought you're going to say there's a little peace.
He actually mailed that to me himself.
It just was one letter. That one really wasn't that
hard, you know? He is a a member of madness at
this point. Without any further ado, grab
your girl with green eyes, pull up a chair, hold on to your

(05:33):
straight jacket tight and let's dive into the madness.
We watched The 9th Gate from 1999.
It was written by John Brown, John Roman Polanski and Enrique
Urbazoo, not Pazuzu. It's also directed by Roman
Polanski. It is based on the novel The

(05:53):
Club Dumas by Arturo Perez Riverte.
Casting wise, we have Johnny Depp, who plays Dean Corso, the
great Johnny Depp. And what's cool about this is
this was right before he blew upas Captain Jack Sparrow, right?
Yep. This is also before I Amber
Heard pooped in his bed, Yeah. True.
Well, we don't know of that. Allegedly.

(06:16):
Allegedly Allegedly, Bear Claw doesn't remember that.
Did You Know Johnny Depp starredin three films in 1999?
Can you name the other two besides Sleepy Hollow, 9th Gate,
Sleepy Hollows 1, Edward Scissor?
I was a little earlier. Was it something to do with a
window? Donnie Brasco.
Close, I'll give you. One more don't know any clues.

(06:38):
I wasn't alive so. This one's probably not very
well known. It had Charlize Theron in it.
Oh. Jesus, that doesn't help.
Italian Job. Now I feel like I know less.
Yeah, I I don't know. I guess I'm gonna have to take
AW or an L on this one. It is the astronaut's wife.
Oh yeah, it. Was an interesting would have
never a million years. Pretty cool, though he was

(07:00):
pretty busy in 1999. Yeah.
This also stars Lena Olin as Liana Topher, Which what's
really cool is she would go on to star in the movie Chocolate
with Johnny Depp the next year. This also has Frank Langella as
Boris Balkan. Do you know what he's best
known? He's in a bunch of stuff.
Frank Langella is like he's, he's always known as like he

(07:21):
plays a villain a lot of times. And he was in, He was in Die
Hard 3. Die hard with a vengeance.
Wasn't he the guy and I thought me and Dan watched this movie
together? The thing I remember him from is
he was carrying around a box or something and then called the
box. Called the box.
Yeah, where? He's like telling people they'll
get $1,000,000 if they push the button or something like that.

(07:43):
But something bad happens in return, yeah.
So the movie I was thinking of was Dracula from 1979.
He stars as as. Dracula.
Really. Damn he old as balls.
And he's a good actor too. He was also in one where he was
like a diamond thief and he was training a robot to be a diamond
thief or something like that. Well the reason why I mentioned

(08:04):
Dracula especially for this filmis he seemed very Dracula like
in this movie. He seemed like no bra to us.
Yeah, right. Hello, you were traveled.
He always plays like a very serious, like a authority type
figure, you know, like. I think it's his voice too.
Scary authority. He sounded like the dude from
John Wick. Yeah, you're right.

(08:25):
The 9th Gate had a budget of $38million.
Do you know how much it made at the box office?
That morning, go. Feel like it didn't do that hot
at the box office. I'm going to go, I'm going to
say it maybe made, I'm going to say 45,000,000 because it was
Johnny Depp and he was big at the time.
I didn't even think about that. I was going to go like a soft 30

(08:45):
mil. I'll go a little bit higher.
I'll go like 38. Man, I didn't realize the budget
was that high. I'm I'm still gonna stick with
my original #17 million. I believe Logan's the closest.
It grossed $58.4 million, so it made some money.
Wait, didn't I say 45? Oh you did yeah you said 35.

(09:08):
Nice. I said 35 okay, I said 38.
Sorry, the wind goes to bear claw.
Yeah, that's. Right.
You get all those points in yourall those.
Points. We should add them all up.
Currently on Rotten Tomatoes, the 9th Gate has a 43% critic
score and a 58% audience score. That's.
A little bit lower than I would like, but you know what?

(09:29):
It's not for everybody. Not for everybody.
Lends us to our good pal Roger Ebert, Yeah.
I might actually like Ebert thistime.
Let's hear what he has to say. He gave the 9th gate two out of
four stars, so he didn't hate this one.
OK, he didn't. Hate that?
He said. While at the end I didn't yearn
for spectacular special effects,I did wish for spectacular
information. Something awesome, not just fade

(09:52):
to white. OK, OK.
That was kind of a weird review by Ebert, but I guess, I guess
that's what we take with him. So not bad.
You got to take one. You can with Ebert.
Yeah, I was going to say I'll take the West with Ebert as much
of AI mean it's still better than most other horror movies,
but. I think that was his better
review because last episode I didn't understand what the shit

(10:12):
he was saying in the. Last he was just like, I hate
this, I hate that you made me watch this and.
He tried to spice it up with words.
Nobody. Understands you.
Trying to make like a poem or something like a box without
hinges. So this was Bear Claw's pick for
an episode. So Bear Claw, why did you choose
the 9th Gate for us to review? I chose The Ninth Gate because

(10:36):
it's one of my favorite movies. I see it very much as a horror
movie. I don't want this to come off as
snobby, but it's a little bit more of like an intellectual
horror. And what I mean by that is it's
not a slasher movie, but I stillthink there's a great deal of
existential horror. I think there's a lot of things
that if you engage with this movie, I think there's a lot

(10:59):
there. And I think it's one of those
that if you don't engage with it, if you don't really play
around with it, if you don't explore some of its themes, then
I could definitely see where it would be a slower movie.
It is not the most fast-paced. It's not a thriller, so to
speak. It's very much playing with
concepts and philosophy and working through that kind of

(11:22):
stuff is part of the joy of thismovie.
I mean, and, and in many ways why I chose this movie is
everybody knows I have a deep love of cosmic horror because
originally my pick was going to be Necronomicon, the Book of the
Dead. But not a lot of our listeners
can get to that movie. That movie is kind of a hard one
to find for cosmic horror. I thought this movie was really

(11:44):
kind of a star pick. I would consider this to be, you
know how you can mix horror and comedy.
This is neo noir and and horror.I like that.
It's a detective story and you know, you've got everything.
You've got the femme fatale and Leanna Telfer.
But at the same time, I don't know how it could not be a
horror movie when you've got supernatural aspects, you've got

(12:07):
you've got murder, you've got all of the kind of classics of
horror. There is a fear and there's a
there's an existential dread and, and certainly a terror that
I think kind of comes over you at a certain point in the movie,
which I'll go into later. But I kind of wanted to open my
review of this with a quote fromHP Lovecraft because I think

(12:27):
that would be good. Well, like I said, I don't
support HP loves crafts beliefs or anything like that, but I
think some of the stuff he wrotewas pretty cool.
As far as cosmic horror goes, the most merciful thing in this
world, I think, is the inabilityof the human mind to correlate
all of its contents. We live on a Placid island of
ignorance in the midst of black seas of Infinity.

(12:47):
And it is not meant that we should voyage far.
And that is that is from HP Lovecraft.
And it talks about how sometimesour ignorance can kind of
protect us against the truth. And what we see Dean Corso
throughout the the time of this movie is we see him in kind of a
search for the truth. And he starts off as very

(13:09):
materialistic throughout this. I'm going to quote, I think
somebody summarized the movie ina really good way.
There's an article by David J Roger, the 9th Gate occult and
Tarot like symbolisms and the engravings by Aristide, Torquia
and Lucifer, plus wider meaning of the movie.
I just want to cite him because a lot of his ideas I'm going to
present here, and they're not myown ideas, but a lot of his

(13:30):
writing on this movie really opened up how I think about it.
And you know, this movie is all about forbidden knowledge, and
that's a big theme in HP Lovecraft's writing.
And there's a lot of comparisonsthat David finds, you know, like
between the Necronomicon and theDella Melanicon the night.

(13:51):
And that's where a lot of the etchings for the 9 Doors of the
Kingdom of Shadow came from. If you know about the
Necronomicon lore and you know, Abdul ABB Hazard who wrote the
Necronomicon could be seen as kind of a stand in for Aristide
Torchia and the whole forbidden knowledge aspect of this movie.
The opening page of the 9 Doors of the Kingdom of Shadows.

(14:12):
Let the light shine, the light of knowledge and the forbidden
fruit. And I'm going to go a lot more
into the themes as we go into talking about this movie,
especially things like Plato's cave and the shadows and lights
and kind of the duality that this movie discusses.
And I think this movie can be entertaining at a very high
level as just kind of an interesting kind of satanic Da

(14:34):
Vinci Code, if you will. But I think if you really engage
with it and really dive into some of the choices that are
made, I think you can find a depth to this movie that I think
is really good and really, trulyhorrifying if you ask me.
I like that you brought this movie to us, Bear Claw, because
I think in general, what I like about our podcast so much is

(14:58):
everyone has the ability to choose like movies for us to
review and has their picks, and everyone kind of brings
something else and different to the table.
And what I like about your picks, Bear Claw, is they kind
of challenge me a lot of times because they're not movies I
would necessarily go out of my way to watch.
I do remember I did check out The 9th Gate a long time ago

(15:21):
when I was really getting into like Johnny Depp.
I saw him in The Secret Window, a movie we had mentioned
earlier. Yeah, that's the window when I
thought came out. Yeah, so I went back and I saw a
couple of other Johnny Depp movies that had kind of a horror
angle to him, and The 9th Gate was one of them.
I didn't really remember anything out of The Ninth Gate.
So to me, this was like a first watch for me.

(15:42):
I got to be honest with you fellas, this is a movie I have
no right in liking because it's very slow.
The pacing is very slow. I was lost throughout a majority
of this movie. Like I'm asking myself
questions, like going back, looking at what people said,
things like that. Like, did I miss something?
Like, what am I looking at here?Usually these movies when

(16:05):
they're slow, they're confused, saying they really frustrate me
and I kind of check out of them.This movie I didn't do that
with. And I don't know if you guys
have similar movies where like you can't explain why you like
them really, but like you just like them like I don't know.
And this is that for me. I think bear Claw, you said

(16:27):
something in our comments with like this being kind of a a
comfort movie this. Is very much a comfort movie for
me, yeah. Yeah, and I I picked up on some
of that too. And I'm not sure why why, but I
think the thing I enjoyed most about this movie is the mystery.
The new are like, what's going on?
Where is this going to lead? There's people turning up dead

(16:48):
like. And I think along with Johnny
Depp's character and Dean Corso,because he starts off very
skeptical and really doesn't want to know anything, just
there to authenticate the books.But along the way, like you
said, he wants to know the truth.
He wants to know that forbidden knowledge.
And so I became like the character.

(17:09):
Me and him were going along together.
Like where is this leading? What's going to happen?
What's happening? Yeah.
So I was engaged in it and I gotto say I really enjoyed it
overall. And Johnny Depp's acting, I
think is phenomenal. Yeah.
You know, usually a character like his I'm I'm not into
because he's kind of a rat, a weasel type of guy, thoroughly

(17:31):
unscrupulous. But I enjoyed his character.
Like I kind of saw an arc appearing, you know, even though
I don't think it's like a necessarily movie arc where it's
like you start from one thing and end up to a next.
You did see the the layers startto pee a little bit.
And I think it was a realistic arc as.

(17:51):
Well. This isn't my first time seeing
this movie. I actually saw it in the
theaters at the time it came out.
I'm going to lead with the bad and end on the good.
OK? The trailer is what got me to
the theater, and two hours and 14 minutes later, the
expectation I had based on the trailer were not met.
I was promised to descend into hell and I just got a snob

(18:11):
circle jerk over books about thedevil.
Yeah, but it tells a story through the passes and the 9
gates and the copies. And if you pay it, no, no, you
got about 105 minutes tops before I start escaping into my
inner monologue or start fallingasleep.
Unless you have a really great command of pacing in a movie and
the pace in this movie is at a snail's pace and it ends so anti

(18:36):
climactically, which is like, for me, the biggest
disappointment with a slow burn movie.
I don't consider this a horror movie and neither does Google.
My last grievance is why isn't Johnny Depp on drugs in this
movie? He looks like he is.
What is this serious acting nonsense?

(18:58):
He was fresh from fear and loathing it.
Looks like he's straight out of Tombstone in this movie.
He's what and like. He's chain smoking like a
motherfucker. He's.
Probably the last one of the last movies I think Johnny
Depp's a serious actor in so. I don't know.
Piracy is pretty serious, yeah. Yeah, he's really dedicated to
being. I'm serious.
What was that vampire? Movie character.

(19:20):
Vampire Interview with the Vampire.
No, no, he. Wasn't in there, Yeah.
There was like a vampire movie that he was in.
That was really are you? Talking about, you brought this
up before. Is the Dark shadows yes dark?
Shadows he was. Serious in that?
Yeah. Seriously bad.
There's no money in serious movies.
Yeah, seriously bad. So what's your good?

(19:41):
Do you have any good? Yeah, definitely.
The good is Johnny Depp's serious acting is a bit
refreshing from all of his Tim Burton S characters.
I do like the overall premise ofthis movie's portrayal of the
devil as a great deceiver. Dean Corso is the perfect mark
as he is a bit of a conman himself.

(20:02):
He swindles people out of their valuables by shortchanging the
estimates and then flips them for a profit.
Man lives in a shitty apartment,eats TV dinners like this.
Dude doesn't do it for the money, he does it for the sheer
love of ripping people off. Who isn't in our business?
He's the perfect, He's the perfect mark to be suckered into

(20:24):
one of the devil's tricks. And it has a meta aspect to it
in that the book is dictating what's going to happen next.
And I think that the book is thedevil Incarnate as I see it, and
an interesting way to portray the devil as an abstract.
And you're left with a sense of schadenfreude when these elitist

(20:44):
stiffs self own themselves. I gotcha.
Wow. Logan, I want to go to you.
What's your overall thoughts on the 9th gate?
OK. This is my first watch of The
Ninth Gate. This film unequivocally
demonstrates the importance of character craft and impressing
the viewers with an emotional response to its content.
The plot itself should be exciting to the audience and not

(21:06):
overwhelm or underwhelm its own story.
This movie does nothing to trulycapture my attention with the
exception of a compelling lead and complex plot points.
Johnny Depp is the best part, but his ending doesn't make
sense and I cannot actually stand for him throughout the
movie. When he does nothing that I

(21:26):
like, he is very he's not a verynice person, right?
It's very interesting to see what the movie divulges itself
into, but it lost me very early on.
In the beginning every moment isvery weird and the pacing is off
by a lot. The other characters are in for
very little or way too long to make some instant coffee.
The Mr. Angle's the bright spot,but it never truly gets there

(21:49):
for me and never truly gets to the point where I am like.
Satisfied. Satisfied.
I think early on in the movie I was interested in it.
It got me a little bit involved because I was like, OK, let's
see where this goes. I would try to give some hope to
it because I don't want to give up on a movie early on.
I want to see where it goes. Yeah, I gave it like 30 minutes.
That's a lot like. It's just, it's just too much

(22:10):
talking, too much exposition, Just like.
It is a lot of it's. Reading a book, it is literally
like, here's a book, like there's too much.
Yeah, I could see that there's alot of information.
There's too much information forit not to pan out and for it
just to be like revealed in likesome stupid.
Way here's my other gripe with it too.
Is like it is a great movie to go back and rewatch, but again,

(22:33):
like I don't want to sit throughtwo hours and. 50 Yeah,
especially for weird pacing. It's a.
It's a lot of movie and to to and I think it's a big ask to go
back and like re watch it again and again and again to to get
the full concept. I got it like it.
Was yeah. It's not like a very hard thing

(22:53):
to do, but like I just think like they didn't understand like
what they really wanted from it.I have AI have a very hot, big
hot take at the end of the OK, we'll say that then.
And it's like it's. For me, Logan, I am very
impressed. You.
You were. Put some notes for this episode.
I'm gonna tell you right now. I wrote that during Bear Claws

(23:15):
regardless, because I thought I should bring up some stuff at
Bear Claws. Gonna bring in the hot stuff.
I got it too, right? Bring it right back.
It's good to have a discussion for sure.
You know, here's the thing, too,is like, this is not a bad
movie. It's like a, you know, it's done
really well. The cinematography is great.
Cinematography. Yeah.
You're getting that music. Yeah.
The music. I mean, it's all done really

(23:36):
good. I have a lot of questions,
though, and I want to. Let's start.
Let's get into it. Yeah, I wanna start with the big
one. Let's RIP these open.
So the idea of this movie is Johnny Depp's character, Dean
Corso. He is a book.
What would you evaluator? Like a book detective or a book
detective, you see these guys and they're really big on

(23:56):
Instagram now and I kind of watch them because I think it's
fun. But there's certain guys in New
York City who with Rolexes, right?
Yeah. Because Rolexes are very hard to
get a hold of because you can't just go and buy a Rolex if
you're looking for a specific type or a specific model of
Rolex. There's like this series of
individuals that you have to go through and, and one guy just

(24:17):
goes jewelry store to jewelry store, 1 jewelry store will tell
him what he what they're lookingfor and he'll go out and source
it. That's kind of what Corso is.
But with rare books, if somebody's looking for, you
know, Don Quixote, like there are book people out there that
want to have that first edition and and you know, you see it on
Pawn Stars too, right? Like, you know, a first edition

(24:38):
of a book is way more valuable than the the latest, you know,
paper pressing of it. And especially when you get into
like, medieval literature where they had very, you know, basic
presses and everything like that, and you get into books
like that were illuminated by monks and things, you know,
those are very valuable pieces of history and it's very
difficult to find them. So he's kind of one of those

(25:00):
people that if you're a rich, you wanna have the original Don
Quixote, you hire Corso. Or like in the movie, if your
grandfather was that person and he's checked out, you hire him
to come say, hey, well, I got all these dusty books that I
would sell, you know, to the five and dime for, you know, 10

(25:20):
bucks. But what do you think they're
worth? So the idea too at the beginning
is he kind of rips that family off right on Quixote you'd stiff
to anything. For Quixote by borrow you
better. Oh yeah, it took me a minute to
realize that once he he got intothat bookstore.
You see the guy, the the the collector in the wheelchair like
he's like, I'll give you $4000 for the those books were

(25:43):
probably worth $400,000. Unscrupulous, unscrupulous.
Thoroughly unscrupulous. Logan picked up on it right
away. Because when you were watching
it, Logan, you were like, Oh my God, he's screwing him out of
Don Quixote. Because I knew how much that
book was worth when I originallybought my book.
Yeah. So I knew that that it was

(26:06):
because mine is also worth a tonof money so.
So we find out that Boris Balkin, who is a kind of shady
character anyways, is paying Johnny Depp or Dean Corso to go
and locate the other two Ninth Gate books right the.
Well, they know where they are, but he's got to authenticate his

(26:26):
copy. There's only three copies.
The rest of them were burned along with the author of the
books in 1667. The book was written in 1666.
All of the other edition copies of this were burned.
So there's only three that existin the world.
There's the Telfer, there's the Kessler and there's the Fargas
copy. The Telfer copy, because the

(26:48):
opening scene of this movie is like any good noir movie, is a
death is a death and a mysterious death of just a guy
pending his suicide note. And then?
OK, well, well, right away. Do we know why he killed me
himself? Yes.
Doesn't specifically say, but I bet you there's some pretty
good. He bought the book for his wife,
right? His wife made him buy that book.

(27:10):
Yeah. And then later we see that she's
in this weird satanic occultic sex.
Cult, if he ever. Finds out what his wife gets up
towards these gatherings he'll probably kill himself so I think
you could put two and two together that he was so put off
by it that he I. Don't even know, he might have
just been miserable. The.
Book pretty miserable. What I kind of think of in my

(27:32):
head is, is like he was just kind of miserable and he really
life wasn't going the way he wanted it to.
Maybe she was threatening to take half of it, you know,
everything of his and maybe he faced a life of poverty.
In my head cannon, in one last fuck you to her, he sells the
book and then and then offs himself.
Well, that kind of goes to Dan'spoint too, of maybe why he

(27:52):
killed himself because, you know, he probably, like,
realized she's in the sex cult banging a bunch of dudes and
like, he's just here her kind ofmoney.
Yeah, sugar daddy sort of deal, right?
Yeah, my whole life's a lie kindof thing.
And. Like and like you said.
So he sells the book as like a fuck you.
Yeah, he knows it's one of her most prized possessions.

(28:15):
So he's like, hey, Balkan, you know, you wanted this thing.
Here you go, buddy, 10 bucks. Like, here's the bill of sale.
Yeah, Balkan never, never, neverreveals how much he paid for.
We never really saw the bill of bill of sale, even though Corso.
Yeah, yeah, that's true. You never know.

(28:35):
My question is right, does Balkan, unbeknownst to the
audience, know that he needs allthree books engravings to do the
ritual at the end? I don't think he knew that.
I think the three books have existed, but I don't think
anybody's ever compared them against each other, with the
exception of maybe the Serza brothers or Senza brothers,

(28:57):
right? They seem to have a lot of
insider knowledge. They point Johnny Depp right to
the differences in the etching. That's another big question I
have coming up too, because I think that will get us some
different opinions too on the Sears of Brothers.
So you don't think that Balkan knew from the start that he
needed the etchings from all three books to do?
No, I don't think he would have hired Johnny Depp then, because

(29:19):
what would he need Johnny Depp for?
He knows where they are, he can source them.
Well, because I was thinking like especially in the.
Unless Johnny Depp was just a scapegoat.
Well, no. Especially in the Kessler
situation. She didn't want Balkan anywhere
near the box. Tell your client, who can only
be Boys Balkan, to come and examine it himself.
Yeah. I was thinking maybe he chose

(29:40):
Johnny Depp to get those etchings, you know, as a
workaround, like a man in the middle sort of deal.
So. Yeah, I think you're right.
I think he was like kind of the quote UN quote civilized attempt
to try and get them. You know, in my opinion,
Balkan's the one who killed Fargas.
Balkan's the one who killed Kessler.
Maybe not like him maybe hired ahit hit man, but I think he's

(30:02):
the one that's behind those deaths.
Cuz you know when when Corso calls him up and tells him
about, he's like, oh, that's so tragic.
Like he doesn't give shit. He's like, yeah, I got that.
I don't think he said that. I think he would generally just
want OK, get back on the job. Yeah, what am I paying you for?
Right, cuz he also made reference to Balkan on the
phone. Corso thinks that green eyed

(30:23):
girl is, Balkans is. Balkans.
Right, like his I on Johnny or on Corso.
So I think Corso at one point says like, hey, you know, you
don't have to have security and Balkans like, oh, I always have
people watching my investments or.
You're an investment of my Mr. Corso I'm really looking after.
It so I mean, you're right, I see.
I thought from the very start that Balkan knew he needed all

(30:47):
those those etchings to do the ritual.
I thought he attempted to and and just correct me if I'm wrong
here, I thought that he mentioned something about
attempting the rituals and it didn't work.
Well, that's what Corso kind of makes fun of him for.
He's like, why don't you think your copy's authentic?
And he's like, something's wrongwith it.
And he's like, why the devil didn't come?

(31:07):
Something wrong? You mean the devil won't show
up? And he was and Boris and Balkan
doesn't, doesn't respond to that.
He's just like, check it out against the other copies.
Do your job. I love to the little off.
It was kind of a funny little nod to when Balkan's taking
Corso into his private library for the security code.

(31:29):
It's 6/6. And the elevator too.
Deep, Deep, deep, deep. Everybody got a Joe Goldberg
thing where he's gonna, oh, he'sgonna.
Put corso in the in the. Glass.
That's what I thought was gonna happen cuz I'm like, oh.
And see freak what I love about.Stuff locked up.
What I love about Balkan and what I love about the Guardian
Angel is, is Balkan is the kind of person that would be putting

(31:51):
this stuff together, but he would be putting it together for
the wrong reason. And I call her the guardian
Angel. I think she's maybe, you know,
because she's kind of depicted on the last etching.
I think she may be the and this is not necessarily politically
correct, but it's how the Bible refers the whore of Babylon, so
to speak, which is kind of like the devil kind of not it it it's

(32:14):
kind of vague, but like she is there, I think, to direct Corso
as the true seeker. I think Boris has already damned
I don't think the devil has any interest in Boris, to be honest
with you. I think Boris is already going
to hell and and going to hell. I don't think is what this
exercise is about or what this game is, Boris.
Is kind of useless anyway. He's kind of more self

(32:36):
indulgent. Where?
He wants it for power. He's not seeking enlightenment,
right? Where did this whole thing is
going with Corso is and this is kind of David J Rogers thesis.
I think this is the thesis of the film is Corso is kind of
directed towards enlightenment. It's not about enlightenment for
Lyanna Telfer. It's not it's not about
enlightenment for Balkan. It's about power or trying to

(33:00):
grab things or trying to become invincible or trying to, you
know, be above everybody else and Lord over everybody else.
You know, Balkan standing on histower looking down on everybody.
Oh, don't you get dizzy. No, you know, and it's because
he wants to Lord over everythingand be like something.
But that's not the point of the gates.
The point of the gates is enlightenment.

(33:21):
It's not power. It's not power, it's spiritual,
it's not material. That's where things go sideways
for Balkan. Gotcha.
And then so Liana Telfer, who isthe wife of the guy?
Yeah, is Andrew, I think. Yeah, Andrew Telfer, that sounds
correct. Who kills himself at the
beginning? Yeah, she wants the books for

(33:44):
just a sex ritual. Like she's not into like
necessarily like bringing. Yeah.
And then? I don't think yeah, she just, I
think she wants. Horny.
I think she wants it as just like wants the.
Gnocchi Log. Something that gives her life
meaning. And I don't, I don't think she's
after like true enlightenment and it's just more like some

(34:05):
fixation on ritual. It's a status symbol in her
cult. In her cult society, yeah.
She does it all for the gnocchi.That's what I was thinking at
the ending there, where they're in that satanic kind of cult and
she's reading off of the page orwhatever, and they have all
those people in their robes and stuff and they seem like they

(34:26):
were naked under, so they're ready to do some nefarious
activities. Yeah.
So I was trying to think like, she's not in it necessarily for
bringing the devil into the world, right?
Or. If there was some type of great
game, she would be the third place, but so far in the 3rd
place she wasn't even in the race.
Like, she's an awful human being, sure, but she's in it for

(34:47):
like, I don't know, like she wants to be the head of her
cult. She's kind of doing it for as
like the bad girl, like wants the lead orgies, but like she's
like in a rubber hit the road kind of way, you know what I
mean? Whereas Balkan is like all about
it, you know, I don't. Know she seemed pretty feisty
though. I mean, she, yeah, she seduces
Johnny Depp. She's like with them fatalities.

(35:09):
Johnny Depp. Yeah, who wouldn't seduce him?
Yeah, Johnny Depp seduced her. I'll.
Be honest. Though, don't you usually have
an automatic in your stockings or something like that?
I'll be honest though, Johnny Depp serving Con in this, Yeah
this movie like he is daddy in this movie.
I liked how he did the TV dinnerin the microwave.

(35:31):
He put the box in there. Yeah, also he is.
He did not read the instructions.
No, he wouldn't. He could have set himself on
fire. He wouldn't even had a movie.
Johnny Depp. Johnny Depp never does.
I do love this scene though, where she seduces Dean Correso
and then they're lying there andall of a sudden it's like,
where's the OK? Where is it?

(35:54):
Where's what? Don't fuck with me.
I thought I already did. Kitty's claws come out.
She's like, are you trying to fuck me?
He's like I thought I already did.
Yeah, I love that yell by Johnny.
She bites them, right? No, she scratches actually use
those nails on ball. Yeah, I love that scene.

(36:20):
It was just like what? The switch flipped.
I love it. And that was like the highlight.
Yeah, little action there JohnnyDepp getting.
Getting looney tuned attacked. Oh, my goodness, yeah.
I mean, I liked her character a lot.
Leanna Telfers 'cause like, she was kind of, you know,
mysterious. And like you said, it adds to

(36:40):
this mystery over the garden. Oh yeah.
That's freaky as hell. Every single one of them.
What about her bodyguard there? You think he was pretty?
Look at him there. Yeah, he is freaky.
He, he, he had like the worst hair.
He had the worst hair I've ever seen.
You listen, this movie did have some great acting, but he was
not a good actor for whatever reason.

(37:03):
What was this thing? He was freaky.
He's just a henchman. I mean you know, he was he was
just trying to I don't know. He's like, I hooked up with this
broad I like on Tinder and I don't know, we've just kind of
been y'all and she has me just. Trying.
To Now I gotta punch people and stalk them and do all this shit.
I think it's funny in like oldermovies when everyone has a

(37:23):
sidekick or like a hench person.I think that's so funny.
Everyone has a Bob, yeah. It's like the Jokers sidekick.
That's his name. Yeah, everyone.
Has Bob? Yeah, Bob, Yeah.
Bob, you're my #1. Bob, remember you are my #1.

(37:47):
Best Sidekick? There's a book where he's like
the main villain of the of the book.
My goodness. Batman fighting Michael Keaton.
It's like Alfred being this center.
I want to get to the green eyed girl.
Or as, as Bear Claw called her, the Horror I.
Mean eyed girl. What are your overall thoughts
on her? Bear Claw brought up the horror

(38:08):
Babylon, right? Yeah.
Her name is Doug Girl. This is the girl.
The girl, Yeah. Yeah, in the credit, she's the
girl. Yeah, 'cause since he call her
green eyes though, he's like. Yeah, he calls her green eyes.
She has green eyes. Yeah.
I mean, there's a lot. I want to hear your guys
thoughts on her. I mean, I I know how I see her.
And this is one of the things that I thought David was off on
because David J Roderick, because he kind of sees it as a

(38:30):
competition between Corso and Balkan.
I don't see it as that. I don't think it's a
competition. He kind of puts her in the spot
of like some type of like judge or like somebody who's like
judging the competition kind of thing.
But like, why isn't she helping Balkan at all?
Why doesn't she guide him at all?
Like she doesn't like. Or maybe she did help him and we
didn't see that necessarily. Yeah, I guess, but she didn't

(38:52):
help him enough because he just seemed like he was on the run.
Like another like hour and 15 minutes, yeah.
Yeah, I think we're OK with whatwe got.
This movie doesn't. But like she stops Corso from
killing and this is one of the best parts I think she's in is
when after Balkan kills Lyanna Telfer, she stops Corso from

(39:13):
beating him with a giant Candlestick.
And this is one of the most important points in the movie
because she stops him and she says.
You're out of a job, it's over. What more do you want?
You're free and clear now. You can just stop.
You don't have to go any further.
He just straight murdered her, Fargas, everybody else that
died, and they're going to pin it on him.
You're free and clear, man. You don't have to do anything

(39:35):
else. You're out of this thing.
And he could have walked away. He chose not to.
He made a choice and he needed to make that choice because the
stakes wouldn't have meant anything if he didn't make that
choice at that moment. That's one of the most important
parts of the movie, because he chose at that moment.

(39:56):
She set it up so that he had that choice to make.
And I think that that's important in the context of
things, cause the fly needs to choose to see it, to go out of
the bottle. Oh yeah, I didn't even think of
that. That's really cool.
Yeah, because this movie gets very philosophical in some ways,
especially if you look at, like,its references to the light.
Because a lot of the times I think of it, and I don't know if

(40:17):
you guys know about, like, the allegory of The Cave with Plato,
where, like, you only see the shadows.
It's basically a way of saying, like, philosophy is a way of
seeing the true world. If if you've been chained up in
a cave ever since you were a child and all you saw were
shadows of the real world or theshadows cast on the wall of a
cave, you would think that that is the real world.

(40:37):
But if you were freed from your prison of The Cave, you would go
out and see, you know, the true form of things.
You know, if you were out to seethe light, you would live in a
Kingdom of shadows until you sawthe light and let the light
shine in the book. So is the Kingdom the other
thing I want to talk about? And maybe I'll wait for
conspiracy theories, but we can we can talk more about it.

(41:00):
I think the most interesting scene with the girl is when she
first shows up because I think the train scene is, is what for
me actually got me back into it where he was like, I've seen you
before, I've seen you before. There's like a playful banter to
it. And I like that like within
characters. Because my big problem for me
with the movie itself is the characters don't really interact

(41:23):
the way I want them to. Where I feel like they're very
forced acting. While the two of them, it feels
like it's more like they're playing off of one another, like
getting to know more about her is the more interesting manner
of this movie, which they don't really dive into too much until
like the very end. But I think what's interesting
to me is every time she shows up, he's very put off by it, but

(41:47):
he still dives into like the playful manner of like, what's
her intentions? Why is she here?
Like what is she doing? Like you're lying to me that
stuff like he's he's getting paranoid more and more.
And I think like her being addedto the mix makes it more
interesting for him. You got a good point there,
because I think a lot of the other characters interactions in

(42:07):
this movie is very guarded because they it's like everybody
knows something. Somebody wants something like.
Yeah. And she knows it too, but she
doesn't have it as like it's notas foreson.
Like you can see on the other faces.
You can see it etched on their face like Balkan is like you can
tell there's something off abouthim, like he's more sinister.

(42:28):
The wife there, whatever the cult lady did, tell her she's
horny as hell. You can see that etched on her
face. She's like, I think it's more
like from the first scene I saw her, I was like, this lady is
more, I feel like she's more pent up.
Like she has that shit like on lock and key.
But she also like you can see inher eyes, it's very like

(42:51):
forcible where you can kind of like tell how much she craves
power in a way. Like it's very it's very
passionate. You can kind of see it in Johnny
Depp's eyes a little bit throughout this movie where he
wants more. He is desperate to find out
answers towards the end because like in the very beginning he
was kind of like, I want out. I don't want this.

(43:11):
And then as soon as he like keeps on going deeper and
deeper, his eyes get more and more crazy where he's becoming
like more obsessed over it, likehe can't stop.
That's kind of like Corso's Arcus.
He starts off like, he's got this money, he's got this huge
payday. He's going to be traveling
around Europe. He goes to his friend, he's
like, hey, I'm going to Portugaland France and go fucking take

(43:33):
this rich guy's money and I'm going to be verifying this book.
But then as soon as shit starts to go sideways, he starts to
realize the kind of mess that he's in.
It isn't the money I want out. But then once he fully grasps,
or at least grasps enough of what's going on, it becomes not
just this job that he's doing. And he makes it very clear from

(43:55):
the start that, you know, Bulk and you and me aren't buddies.
I'm doing this for money and nothing else.
And that's kind of how Bulk and Balkan wants it.
But it becomes about more for him.
Dan, what's your thoughts on thegreen eyed girl there?
She is very captivating on screen.
Whenever she has a scene. There's this mystery about her,

(44:15):
mystique about her that I think you're like, well, like, what is
she? Is she a supernatural beast?
Is she human? They kind of lead you along a
little bit with some ambiguity, and then they kind of hit you
with like some flying scenes andsome green glowing eyes.
But she's probably the most interesting character in my

(44:35):
opinion in the entire movie. Yeah.
I agree. Because she's so mysterious, you
don't know what her motive is. No.
Yeah. Or anything to that nature.
She's almost like a second femmefatale.
Yeah, for sure. I think it's very cool when you
have a new new R movie that's very played off with its
characters and like what their intentions are.

(44:56):
Because when you are faced with an unknown or not an unknown
force, but like you don't know where your path is leading you
throughout the movie. Like in any kind of like
detective novel, it's interesting to have like
different characters like that kind of are like, kind of like a
roadblock in a way. So like when Johnny Depp is
forced to like confront all these different people that are

(45:17):
stopping him or kind of leading him where he is.
It's more interesting when you as like the audience are seeing
these different characters interacting with Johnny Depp
because they're so off putting. Every single one of them are so
like abnormally weird and like, they all have different
intentions. They're not like the same.
They're unique. I like that take.

(45:38):
I gotta say, I was very confusedwith my own emotions when she
was taking the blood from her nose and putting it on her
Johnny Dopp's feet. I thought it was hot too, but I
was like, I was like, oh, it's blood from her nose.
Because I didn't think she was. I thought she was hot from like
the jumper. I was like, oh shit.
Like I like this. Because this, this reminds me a

(45:59):
lot of like Bond movies in a way.
Like when she first shows up, when she first shows up without
the supernatural element, I was like, this is a Bond.
Shows up what on a bike, right? Is that the first?
Yeah. The train?
No, we see her in Balkan's classthat he's teaching.
Yeah. Oh yeah.
Class. Then the library, then the.

(46:21):
Yeah, I thought the train was more of a Bond thing where I was
like, this is more of a Bond thing because like when they
first interact, when they first interact, when they first
interacted, that's a Bond kind of play of like introducing the
femme fatale to the main character.
And I know I've talked a lot about the kind of essence, the
Taric aspects of this movie, butone of the cool parts of this
movie is how cool would it be tojust like lone wolf?

(46:43):
It's it goes back to the neo noir fantasy of like being this
lone wolf detective, like tracking down this mysterious
thing with femme fatales all around you traveling through
Europe, you know? I was thinking this to you.
I was like, Corso doesn't seem like he's got a life.
Yeah, no, like he doesn't have anything.
So like. From the very beginning.

(47:05):
Box Hungry Man burning in the microwave.
He's got that. He doesn't have apartment
anymore. Yeah, I think it's safe to say
this is like the, I don't want to say the ultimate fantasy, but
for a lot of straight guys, thisis like the kind of person you
wanna be with a lot of femme fatals.
Like. Yeah, like, and mystery and

(47:27):
mystery. James Bond is every neon or.
Detective, this movie is. Very much drinking.
He's smoking every. 2 seconds sohe's.
Definitely for the nerdy, yeah, young kid.
I got a big question here. He's, you know, a fan of rare
books and a book authenticator. Why is he smoking and drinking
with these books? Yeah, I know.

(47:47):
They all do, Dad. Even the sons of brothers, they
get ash. And they said that that book's
like over $1,000,000, Bernie, there is like, this has to be
worth over a million and you're smoking Boggs over it, like.
You know, there is a thing that I think I kind of picked up on.
I don't think he gives an F about like the authenticity of

(48:08):
it. I think he again likes to RIP
people off. Thoroughly unscrupulous.
He's in it for the love of the game.
So by him smoking, right, you'reright.
By him smoking, he's ruining. He doesn't really care about the
it's not about the books and theabout having that power, that
control over the people's money.And the game of it, you know?

(48:28):
I, I don't know, I think the books are important.
I think the search for knowledgeand being more knowledgeable and
like getting one over on people because you're more
knowledgeable. I think that's what makes like
an. Edis type of idea.
Yeah, like Marvin is purely about like the knowledge, like

(48:50):
he's not a materialistic person because he's making probably a
good dime on a lot of these books.
But I mean, he doesn't live a lavish lifestyle.
You don't see him driving a Corvette or anything.
Even those Don Quixote copies, you know, a couple, $100,000 in
1990. I mean, that's nothing to but
turn your nose up to. I mean, you're not going to be
buying a villa in France, but you're going to be doing OK,

(49:13):
much better than he's living. He's living in some kind of not.
I mean, probably nowadays it's $1,000,000 our apartment, but I
mean back then it was kind of a apartment with he, I mean he's
not going out to eat or dressingparticularly well.
You know, he's just kind of, it's all about the knowledge and
the elitism and knowing more andbeing able to get over on

(49:33):
people. I.
Want to get your guys take because Dan had said like to him
this wasn't very horror ask and Bear Claw kind of was on the
other end of it for me. I thought were, like, some of
the biggest horror scenes in this movie were a call back to
Psycho. And it's when he is realizing
that, well, you know, he's attacked by Leanna, but he's

(49:55):
realizing that, oh, like, everybody wants this book now.
Yeah. And he goes to the bookstore,
The guy's dead hanging, and he grabs a book, but he's in that
cab and he's trying to make it to the airport.
And, like, just the way it's shot in, like, the paranoia and
going over to the. You know what I'm saying?
It's kind of like when. What's her name in the movie?
Is running with the money, Yeah.It's kind of more of a

(50:17):
psychological thriller. It's not horror because horror
to me is more. There has to be a theme to it
and this movie plays like a sychological mystery thriller.
Like it's not really a horror movie if there's not a lot of on
screen deaths there. Are a lot of on screen deaths.
How I would say this is not a horror is that it is too

(50:40):
abstract in its presentation andthere's not enough horror
element because of the abstraction of how the movie is
played out. So it lends itself more to a
thriller noir mystery peppered in with some horror elements.
Yeah. Yeah, I mean, my counter to that
would be that the horror, and this is, and I think if you were

(51:01):
to lob that at this, you would have to lob that at also at a
lot of cosmic horror. Because sometimes in cosmic
horror it's more about like a pursuit of madness or madness
slowly creeping in and kind of arcane knowledge.
So I get that. But there's kind of an
existential horror to this. And there's some truly, like

(51:22):
that castle at the end is truly creepy, like and terrified.
Yeah. With the light behind it.
That's not the light from the sun like that, really.
I I found that ending goosebumps.
Yeah, I found the ending scenes in the cast so very horror too.
But yeah, I mean I can see it either way and.
Somebody's coughing, all these folks.

(51:42):
I mean, there's more kills than this than there is in some of
the Friday that they're. This fall, Friday the 13th,
there's a lot of instant coffee,so.
They make instant coffee in thatspare.
Yeah. This felt very.
I don't know if you guys have seen the movie, but Eyes Wide
Shut sort of deal. Yeah, very much like that.
Eyes wide shut. I don't think I could defend is
a horror movie, but this is verysimilar to yeah.
But it still has like some of that, like, yeah, what's going

(52:06):
on? Like what are they trying to
accomplish? Cold stuff, stuff like that.
Yeah. I want to get to the Senza
Brothers. Here's my question, cuz this is
a big thing. Yeah.
At the end we find Dean Corso goes back to the bookstore of
the Senza Brothers and they're gone, right?
If they were there in the. 1st place, They were there in the
1st place and they're moving theshelf and here comes the page

(52:28):
that is the real because apparently one of the books was
not often. And I think the sons of brothers
are the ones who did it. OK.
That that was going to be my question.
OK. Whatever entity they were
because they also look just likethe Angel.
If you look at the whispered andwasted breath keeps a secret,

(52:49):
which is the third etching, you see that that the the Angel
looks just like the brothers. Who the brothers are remains and
maybe they didn't with maybe they were trying to hide the
Enlightenment that whoever wouldbe putting the pieces of this
together were seeking and they were trying to hide it.
So, you know, they go on and on about how expensive it would be

(53:10):
to forge the whole thing, how itwould take the most skilled
hands to truly fool somebody, kind of like puffing up their
own work like nobody could do this except the best of the best
of the best and knowing that they had done it.
This is a forgery or a copy withmissing pages restored is a work
of a master. And that they had they had a
cheat. I like to they're pointing out

(53:31):
like all like the little things in there and kind of giving
bread crumbs to Corso. Painting the binding A
magnificent A sample of 17th century Venetian craftsmanship.
Watermarks. Ink typefaces.
Yeah, cuz that's what I thought.I did you guys pick up on that?
Dan, did you think that the Corsa or the Sons of Brothers

(53:53):
were the ones that what's the word I'm looking for?
Kind of lit him on to the to theLCF versus yeah.
They were the match that started.
ACT. Yeah, and they're the ones
though, that ended up forging that book, right?
Or no. They ended up only forging one
page of the book. OK of the book.
And that's why at the end too, that the ritual didn't work for

(54:14):
Balkan, right? I would say on a very high
level, yes, but I would say it. Didn't work for him because the
devil they didn't want it to work for him.
I would say the etching. Chosen, like you said, the.
Etchings are important, but I don't think the etchings are
important in them physically allbeing in one place.
Maybe I'm off on that, but the etchings are more important in

(54:36):
what they represent, and the etchings are more important in
the Riddle that they represent because I think they show a
path, specifically course path to enlightenment.
So you kind of have to follow that.
Path. It's more about the path and
walking that path than it is getting 9 pieces of paper
together and drinking some bloodout of a canteen and then

(55:00):
lighting yourself on fire. I don't know, that seems like a
good point that. Seemed to not work.
There's nine plates. Silence is golden as the first
one, open that which is closed as the second one.
Wasted breath keeps a secret secret as a third one.
Chance is not the same for all, as the 4th 1 in vain is the
fifth one. The 6th 1 is I enrich myself

(55:21):
with death, the 7th 1 is the disciple outshines the master,
the 8th 1 is Virtue is conqueredand the 9th 1 is I know now the
shadow comes from the light. I'm glad you went over all those
because I. And if you look, you can, and I
don't know whether we want to dothis on the podcast or not, but
I would suggest everybody read that piece by John J Roger.

(55:43):
And all of the etchings can be seen in court says journey to
enlightenment and the journey that he goes through in
enlightenment. And one of the clearest ones is,
you know, like Fargas was the second one which opened that
which is closed. Like that's when Johnny Depp has
that kind of revelation about the the different etchings and

(56:06):
stuff. It it happens at the Fargas copy
when he's examining it and from the clues that were given to him
by the Searza brothers. And that's when he kind of
really begins to seek the path of enlightenment and, and you
know, each one of those you can go through and they kind of show
you his journey to that enlightenment, if you want to

(56:26):
call it that, because it could also be a trap because you know
the devil. I want to get to the ending.
What were your thoughts on the ending?
Because we have Balkan, who basically lights himself on fire
and thinks he's. I am inevitable.
I feel the power surge through me like an electric current
capable of any feat of mind or body, and I am the devil.

(56:49):
It doesn't work. And then the green eyed girl
bangs Corso. We get him who find, you know,
and then Corso finds the actual page and then he walks through
the 9th gate right at the end. Yeah.
What were your thoughts on the ending, Dan?
Did you like it? Like I said, my biggest gripe
with this movie is that I like slow burn movies, but like if

(57:12):
you take me on a ride and you just drop me off in the middle
of nowhere, I'm going to be kindof pissed about it.
I hope you would be. I also was kind of reading in a
little bit on the director and his his kind of thoughts on the
occult. Roman Polanski, is it a
expressed atheist? So he was saying that like he

(57:34):
found a lot of this stuff kind of silly and comical.
And in some respects I find someof it to be more funny and
amusing. Like that schadenfreude response
you get with the dude who gets the book and he's he's doing the
ritual and he's like ha ha ha, I'm all powerful.

(57:56):
And he sets himself on fire and then 5 seconds later he starts
screaming. Miraculous.
Nothing. Nothing at all 2 seconds later.
Or the bareness like in the wheelchair where their tongue
sticking out like dead and then speeds into the burning.

(58:20):
Like there's a lot of comedic elements to it that to me, it's
like, I almost feel like there'sthis sardonic mocking of it as
well going on in there. Yeah, for sure.
I can see that too. I was thinking that too,
especially with some of the way those scenes were portrayed,
like little, like over the top. That's that's a good call for
sure. Logan, what'd you think of the

(58:41):
ending? Weird is, oh, I don't know, I
think I think this movie kind oflost me in the very beginning
and I think the ending really didn't help by making it like
worse where I was just like, what the hell was that?
And like it was weird. It was definitely weird.
Best part of the movie was finally getting that sex scene
because I was like, Jesus Christ, just bone each other

(59:03):
like I was. The tension was crazy as hell
but yeah I don't know, I didn't really understand much of the
like the 9th gate shit but like it was fine.
Bear cool, how about you? Did this play out good for you
at the end? This played out great for me at
the end. And I think Ebert's thing is

(59:23):
kind of short sighted because really, and I think this is one
of those things that you got to be a practice cosmic horror fan
to understand because it's one of those things where, well,
what did you want the end to look like, right?
Like, did that even physically happen?
I mean, I don't know. Or was was he going through, you

(59:43):
know, some type of enlightenmentor going through into a new
realm of understanding? And it's one of those things
where it's like, OK, he walks through the final gate.
But I mean, like, there's not really a clear answer.
And a lot of cosmic horror ends in a very similar fashion.
Because how do you explain the unexplainable?
How do you explain enlightenment?
How do you dance on the needle of on the head of a pin?

(01:00:05):
You know, it's it's one of thosethings you can't really show it.
And to me. It's kind of the creepiest part
of it. And I think it's it's exciting.
Like did he understand a new level of damnation or was he,
did he finally see some type of ultimate truth that you can't
know or you can't see? Like what did he see when he
when he looked into the light ofthe castle?

(01:00:27):
Yeah, yeah, for sure. I.
Agree with the light of the Ninth Gate.
I was confused at the end and I'll get through this in my
heartache but I don't know what an ending I kind of wanted.
So to me like this was the ending we got.
Like Logan said we got the greeneyed girl banging Corso.
That was pretty cool and. That's cool.
Yeah, I mean, I was confused, but like, I was just long for

(01:00:49):
the journey, so I was willing togo wherever this was going to
go, and if it didn't go anywhere, I was OK with that
too. I think.
I don't know, time for Conspiracy Corner.
You know what? I don't know if this is where to
put this, but I found it kind ofweird.
And I know we didn't talk too much about Roman Polanski for

(01:01:11):
good reason other than what Dan said about maybe poking phone at
the occult a little bit. But when we see the girl with
the green eyes in the bar that Johnny Depp's in the hotel,
there she is reading a book called How to Win Friends and
Influence People. Dale Carnegie.
That was also the book that Charles Manson read in prison.

(01:01:33):
And it's kind of weird because Charles Manson is responsible
for his wife's, what's her name?Sharon Tate.
'S death Manson wasn't married, wasn't married to Sharon Tate.
No. Roman Plansky.
No. Yeah, yeah.
So it's weird that he would include that in this like.
Yeah, that is a little strange. That's that's unsettling.
Yeah. That is very creepy.

(01:01:55):
The other conspiracy is, and this is something I really
thought of, I did see somebody else bringing this theory up
too, that Dean Corso is actuallythe devil and he's trapped on
Earth and the green eyed girl isthe guardian Angel for her.
She's like going to set him freefrom his earthly binds.

(01:02:17):
And that makes sense with the final picture because it's the
girl and then it's that devilishfigure, the dragon.
And Johnny Depp, like obviously must represent the dragon in
that photo because it's them having sex and then in the
backlight of the castle on fire.And this is something like I
said, I had thought the ending was going to go where the reveal

(01:02:41):
was he was the devil all along and there was going to be some
time with like, he's imprisoned in Earth and like, can't
remember, he's the devil sort ofthing.
So. That's an interesting take on
it. Yeah, when I read this theory,
it it really hit me good. Because that's what I was
thinking all along. I'm like, OK, Like, yeah.
That's cool. No, I never thought of that.
I like that. He's a Dick.
Yeah, right. He was not a likable character.

(01:03:03):
Yeah, but he's not like. He doesn't kick puppies and
shit. He's like kind of just a Dick
like that doesn't mean he's the devil like.
I said he's a deceiver, thoroughly.
Unscrupulous. Kind of like the devil is
portrayed. If anything, he's like Loki.
He's like a, he's like mischievous, I guess.
And like, not mischievous, I guess he's just kind of like,
again, he's just a Dick. Like, he's not really like the

(01:03:25):
devil. I don't know, I I like that
though, because it makes me likekind of how the movie goes.
No, that, that is interesting. No, I think that's an
interesting point of view. I didn't certainly think it's
possible. Does anyone else have any
conspiracies? I have a couple.
My first one is it was always about Corso, which I kind of
kind of went on to say like it was never like this great game

(01:03:46):
or anything like yes, they call it the great game or whatever,
but it was always predetermined.All of this stuff was set up for
Corso and what he was guided through it and where there where
there might have been deviations, the the guardian or
the the girl was always there toput him back on course or give
him the chance to make the finalchoice.
You know, so it was kind of always about Corso and and his

(01:04:10):
of knowledge and and getting himdown to this thing.
And one of the conspiracies thatI think is interesting is was
the end there the end goal? Like why would anybody be be
trying to go to hell? I feel like that's going to hell
would be a fairly easy thing to do.
You know, it's a elevator hell stairway to heaven, but it was

(01:04:30):
one of The thing is is like was it hell or was it light
enlightenment? He was going to, and was he
going to the Kingdom of Shadows through the 9th gate or coming
out of the Kingdom of Shadows inthe ninth gate by being like
this world is the Kingdom of Shadows.
And he was stepping into the light behind the castle and back

(01:04:52):
to the allegory of The Cave. And he was stepping into the
light of enlightenment and seeing the truth behind the
world. Because I mean, if you look at
the devil's temptation and what the devil has tried to attempt,
like Adam and Eve were tempted, you know, for those biblical
scholars out there, Adam and Evewas tempted by the fruit from
the tree of knowledge and the devil was offering knowledge.

(01:05:14):
And so is that what Corso is being tempted?
Is that what he's being drawn to?
And is it hell or was it something else?
And is this just the devil's temptation, or is there some
type of enlightenment that he's going to see?
Yeah, I like that idea. Like cuz like the light
represents enlightenment. And if you look at the last one

(01:05:36):
I know now the shadows come fromthe light.
And if that light is the light behind the castle, maybe he's
going into it and not necessarily seeing the world.
And, you know, this kind of goesback to not ideas and everything
like that, but that we live in this world of shadows.
He's finally gonna see the truthbehind it all.
Yeah. I like that as the ultimate

(01:05:57):
prize. I like that for sure.
Yeah, I get Spider. Kill the spider.
Sorry Nathan. 5 minute break. In the meantime, let's go back
to the streets. I'm reporting out here where
people are saying they're seeinga strong light in the distance.
Fair call. What do you make of this?

(01:06:18):
I think it is very likely. I mean, it may be some type of
sporting event or something likethat, but I think we can
entirely rule that out. It is very clearly the light of
the devil. Oh.
My God, wait a minute. What's that in the distance?
Oh my God, it's Jesus with a shotgun.
Any other conspiracies? I have a conspiracy.

(01:06:38):
I think in my opinion, there areno villains in this movie
itself. I think Dean Corso is the
misunderstood character in this and that there that the real
lesson is that there are no likevillains towards like
enlightenment and that like, youknow, the only people that are

(01:06:59):
really like, I really want it are the more power hungry.
But there's no real villains towards this.
Like everyone's looking for something but no one's really
like. Everybody's looking to fill that
hole. Everyone's looking to fill that
hole. I think it, I think it's hard
for us to like kind of like see people as like villains or not,

(01:07:19):
some people are just horny. Onto hot takes.
My hot take is kind of somethingstupid.
So I watched this, watched the ending, had no idea what
happened, anything. And I was like doing the notes
and everyone's like, yeah, he walked through the 9th gate at
the end. He's like, damn, I I didn't even

(01:07:41):
put that together. Yeah.
So my hot takes on me. Any other hot takes?
Yeah, I have a hot take. This is a very comfort movie for
me. I don't know what it is about
it. And I don't know whether it's
just all the old books or that it's, you know, I know this
movie inside and out. Or you know, it's just one of
those things that it's very whenever I can't figure out what
I want to watch, this will be one of those movies that I'll

(01:08:04):
put on because it's like I can'tfigure out what I want.
And then like depending how I'm feeling when I'm watching in
this movie, it'll kind of directme to what I want to watch.
If I'm like, oh, this is a little slow for me right now,
then I'll be like, OK, I'm clearly looking for something a
little bit more action-packed, maybe a little bit more comedic.
But if I'm like really getting into it, I'll be like, OK, maybe

(01:08:25):
I'm looking for something that scratches the intellectual lit.
About how long the movie do you do you figure that out?
I don't know, I usually. It's like a meter, yeah.
I usually watch most of the movie and I'm not not seeing
another movie. Dan, do you have a hot take?
I do. My hot take is Johnny Depp on

(01:08:45):
mescaline would have made this movie's pacing faster and
slightly more entertaining. That's it.
That's the hot. Damn I could see that make it
more sweaty low. You have a hot.
As sweaty as balls in this movie, I do have a hot take.
I think this movie is set up to have a sequel.
I'm not saying that it should have a sequel sequel, I'm saying
it's set up to have one. And my question asked for the

(01:09:08):
gentleman here, which movie of the ones that we've already
watched would you say should have gotten a sequel?
And they have to be like 1 and done movies like movies that
didn't have. Any of the ones that we've
covered? Yep.
Event Horizon. What should have gotten a
sequel? Halloween.
One and done. All we do happen whether.

(01:09:32):
You, like it or not, should havegotten a sequel.
Come back to me. I gotta think about it for a
second. I have all the ones that we have
watched down here. There are movies like Behind the
Mask. That's one I and I own the the
Leslie Vernon before the mask, the omnibus comic that is the

(01:09:55):
script to the sequel. So I would love to see that be
made because I think it would bereally cool and something.
Different. Yeah, there are other ones, like
the burning cabin in the woods in a violent nature dream.
Scenario to be a sequel to. Yeah, and a violent nature,
Yeah, there's gonna. So it's not a one and done
otherwise, I'd say. Street trash Death becomes her,

(01:10:15):
The Lost Boys. Well, there's technically, yeah,
it's great tennis. Yeah, technically I would say
for me, out of all the movies that we have watched that are 1
and done, I would love for thereto be a second get out because
there's only been one. I like that.
I like that world that they built.
Yeah, that's a. That's a good idea for sure.

(01:10:36):
What would you call it? Get in.
I would just call a get out. Part I think I downloaded the
wrong movie. Or I would say like the burning.
One I've always pitched for a long time is an original to or
as a sequel to the original My Bloody Valentine.
Not the remake, but a sequel. I was gonna put that but they

(01:10:58):
technically have one. It's a remake though.
Yeah, but like kind of sequel. I guess.
I hate to say Dan's Event Horizon, but I feel like that's
the best one for there's the most there that you can make
like an interesting sequel to. It's almost like it gets a
second chance. We were talking about this like
when we recorded. The.
Episode we were like, man, this would be great if they, you

(01:11:20):
know, gave a second run at it. Yeah.
You know, I think that's an interesting question to pop over
to our viewers. Yeah, let me know at the padded
room@outlook.com. What movie do you think should
have a sequel that doesn't have a sequel?
One and done, yeah. One and done.
That's a great question for sure.
For sure, it's time for our Hollow of Slain.

(01:11:44):
Our Hall of Slain are charactersthat have died in the movies
that we review that would help us get through and survive a
horror movie because we are the final girl.
Are there any characters from the 9th Gate that you would like
to nominate? Who was the?
I mean, yeah, Telfer might not be a bad pick.
She's hot as hell, a little crazy.
Though a little crazy. I don't need a crazy girl.

(01:12:05):
I don't need that. Knows how to lead a.
Toxicity. You know, she does what she
wants to get stuff. Done.
Balkan is. I don't like Balkan.
We don't need that. We don't need that energy, the
Baroness. Relax.
She knows a lot. She's met the devil.
Yeah, that's what. You know she's met the devil

(01:12:26):
when she was younger trying to think Bernie.
Bernie knows a lot about books. Bernie might not be a bad
addition. Maybe.
I mean he would be like our library again.
Be the librarian. He was the guy.
He wouldn't, he wouldn't fuck usover unless it was for, unless
it was for money, women or a good percentage.
No, I wouldn't screw you unless there was a good reason.

(01:12:48):
Money, women, business. Other than that, you could
relax. I like the fargus.
The old man. Yeah, he was playing the shit
out of that piano. It's OK if we don't have a Hall
of Slaying for this movie. It wasn't a tradition.
I don't think there's a strong, strong.
I'll take Fargus for mine. You want fargus for yours.
You can play the shit out of piano.
Maybe you need that with Frog Brothers around.

(01:13:08):
We'll just have a party and. You're all set with no one.
Coming to be a no for me dog. Right, all right, Fargus, the
Logan's Wing gavel sound. It's time for hook, line and
stinker. Our hook is our favorite kill of

(01:13:29):
the movie, our line is our favorite liner quote in the
movie, and our stinker is something funny, awful, or weird
that happens that makes the movie either better or worse.
I'm combining my hook and my stinker.
Whoa, first time for everything here on the mouths of men.
It's. Baroness Kessler of.
Course so just stinker is her character.

(01:13:51):
Well, no, no, no. It's the death first.
She's got her tongue sticking out.
Yeah. And Johnny our corso is trying
to move her and just throws her into the fire in the other room.
Deserved. Like where did that come from?
My goodness. I think dance theory is right
though because there is some satire with some of the scenes

(01:14:13):
and especially Kessler's death there.
Was the most. Yeah.
Like cartoonist. Yeah.
Yeah, I think the fire makes sense.
I just laughed. How she went fucking flying.
Well, it. Was because of her electric
wheels. Yeah.
Oh yeah. So funny.
It's kind of like Game of Thrones.
You know, if they come back fromthe dead, you don't want them to
be a part of the army. Is like you throw them in the

(01:14:34):
hell you throw them in the fire.Kill it with fire.
No witnesses dead, no evidence. My line is.
There's nothing more reliable than a man whose loyalty can be
bought for hard cash. Yeah, Dan, how about you?
My hook is Baroness Kessler. I mean, awesome.
Just look at that face. How can how can you not pick
her? Well.

(01:14:58):
It's ingrained in my mind. Line.
Unscrupulous. Thoroughly.
Unscrupulous. Thoroughly unscrupulous.
I love that scene in the beginning.
Whitkin must be spinning. Whitkin Stinker, the girl
gliding down the steps to save Deed and Corso.

(01:15:19):
It's enough of a supernatural element for anyone to argue this
is horror. That's right.
There we go. My hook is Balkan's death, where
he just pours gasoline on himself and lights and I feel
nothing. I'm invincible.
I can walk on air. I can do anything.
Oh, you want to see another trick?

(01:15:40):
I'm gonna douse myself in gasoline.
Even if the devil was there, he'd be like, dude, what are you
doing? Like.
You gave me the canonical. Yeah, what?
Did you think I would do? That I thought that was a good
hook. The line is the Baroness says to
Johnny Depp as he's leaving the first time he goes to the
Baroness. You don't know.

(01:16:00):
What you're getting yourself into, Mr. Corso, Get out before
it's too late. I'm afraid it already is, and I
think this is a really importantline in the movie.
At that point, he's too far gone.
He's starting to believe in someof this.
So my stinker is, and it's one of the only stinkers I have for
this movie is I can't fight that.
It's a slow and it's a long movie.

(01:16:21):
I think that was intentional. It's pacing is not a traditional
pacing of a movie. But I think if you engage with
it and you really want to want to play around and kick it
around. And I'm not saying that
everybody has to or should, but if it is something that where
some of it kind of hooks your interest a little bit, I think
it's long enough where it gives the person that wants to do

(01:16:43):
that, that makes that choice to engage with it.
I think there's a lot there to engage with.
Logan, my hook is Owens death with the necklace and it's
pretty cool. Ryan's death.
Yeah, the strangled 1. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, that creeps me out becauseof a star like other throat.
I was like. Yeah, wine.

(01:17:04):
I mean, do you believe in the supernatural?
I believe in my percentage. I believe in my percentage.
Yeah. Great line, great one liners in
this movie. My stinker was the whole fight
scene with her flying down the flight of stair like that was
just like it was really bad to watch.
Like that was the moment I was like.
I'm going to sleep. Any honorable mentions?

(01:17:25):
Yeah, 2 honorable mentions, 1 isfor line.
It's Mumbo. Jumbo, mumbo jumbo and down.
Too, as he walks in there and then the other one is when the
girl says, you know, you're freeand clear of the murders.
He just murdered Leanna Telfer in front of all these people and
he's free and clear of the murders.
You don't have to do this anymore.

(01:17:47):
And he goes, no, I do have to keep going because it's that
time where that's the choice. He he could have been free and
clear of it, but he chose to keep going.
This is my favorite line. You're an ultra course.
A ultra who? Isn't in our business.
You'd still do anything. You would still do anything.
Great wine, governor of the elevator.

(01:18:07):
I like Bernie's quote, too. What, you don't trust me?
I wouldn't fuck you over unless it was for money, women or a
percentage or something like that.
That's a good one. And then Bernie also has a good
one when he's first negotiating with Corso where he says 15 for
my children's sake. You don't have any children.
I'm still young. Give me time.
I'm young, give me time. I liked Bernie as a character.

(01:18:30):
It's time for our final rating. They're.
Going to rent the movie, where will they rent the?
Movie The killer is. Great, the victim sucks.
This survivor is in between. What was that?
Our final rating system is Killer.

(01:18:52):
It's our highest rating it's awesome we would highly
recommend and it is a must watch.
Survivor is our middle tier it was a good movie we would
probably recommend and has some rewatch ability.
And finally the dreaded Victim it's our lowest rating it's a
bad movie we do not recommend and has no rewatch ability.
For me the 9th Gate, I'm rating it as Survivor.

(01:19:15):
I really enjoyed this movie a lot and I kind of do recommend
it for anyone who hasn't seen itbecause because I feel like this
has gone under the radar a little bit.
I think, you know, some of the things that are tough are
obviously the length and the pacing and that's why I can't
really give it a killer. But I enjoyed the ride and the
mystery and like I was confused,but like there's a lot to engage

(01:19:37):
with in this movie and a lot of questions and it does keep you
kind of interested. I thought throughout.
Johnny Depp is really cool in ithas some cool femme fatales like
we talked about. So I think it it really is
interesting to watch and that's why I'm getting a Survivor.
Dan, how about you? I.
Want to like this movie? It has good elements to it.

(01:19:57):
It has a great story at the center of it.
But for me it's just too long ofa ride for the destination it
brought me to. I find it underwhelming.
I'm all for slow burns. You got to leave me with that
holy shit feeling by the end of the movie.
I also would not recommend this as a horror movie to check out
because it's so far out in the periphery of horror genre that

(01:20:20):
there are hundreds if not thousands more movies that I
would recommend before it with stronger horror elements.
I rate this movie Unscrupulous, Thoroughly, unscrupulously a
victim. Mumbo jumbo mumbo jumbo bear
claw, how about you? So I would rate this movie as a
survivor too. And and I went into this just
knowing that this was going to be a survivor for me because you

(01:20:42):
know, when I give a movie a killer, I think it's required
watching. Like you really need to watch
it. I don't think I don't think this
movie is for everybody And but Ido think it is an interesting
movie. I think there's a lot if you
choose to engage with the movie.I think there's a lot of depth
to the movie. Like I said, it's a very big
comfort movie for me and it's got a lot of interesting aspects

(01:21:03):
to it and it's kind of fun to todive into it.
I don't think it ultimately goesanywhere, but I think it's fun
to kind of look at the etchings,look at the Latin, the whole
book and and detective and neo noir aspect of it.
I I think they're all fun aspects of it.
And I think it's something I would recommend to somebody, you
know, somebody who is looking for something a little bit more

(01:21:26):
intellectual on the horror side,but still not.
I don't think it's essential watching.
So I give it a survivor. Logan I would have to say for
me, this movie runs too long. The pacing is too much to like
really, really get into. The character study is very
interesting. I think there are a lot of
characters that I will say are very mysterious and have some

(01:21:47):
kind of different parts to it. I think the plot itself is very
weak, where I'm kind of not really as interested when it
takes too long to get to an actual like point where I'm
like, here's something we can work on.
There's too much going on at onepoint or another.
And that's why I have to say this is not for me.

(01:22:08):
It's not my kind of movie. It's definitely not a rewatch.
So I got to say it's a victim. Nathan, our producer, gave his
reading and he said Ninth Gate review smoke drink book wander,
drink, smoke, book, drink, book,wander board victim yes Roman
Polanski is a piece of shit yes yeah, You know what?

(01:22:31):
I I want to say something beforewe get to our audience.
I felt like. A Winter Soldier like.
I like that bear claw though. You chose this movie for us
because I feel like it was something different and it gave
us like like I said at the beginning, my overall thoughts
is like it gave me a movie. I wouldn't necessarily go to
that. You know, I would recommend and

(01:22:53):
I like seeing. So I think it's cool that this
was your pick for sure. We also asked you, our audience,
what your thoughts were on the 9th gate.
So let's check our Instagram, and that's at miles dot of dot
madness. James Shannon Moran, underrated
horror movie for a cinema obsession.
It's been a while, but if I remember it left more to be

(01:23:15):
desired for me from J Plus. Love this movie.
One of the rare instances where the movie is better than the
source material is based on. Probably my favorite Hangover
movie of all time. Oh my.
God, imagine watching this, Oh my God.
Daycray dot Black, The main character Dean Corso is named

(01:23:35):
after 2 beatniks, the fictional Dean Moriarty from On the Road
by Jack Kerouac and author Gregory Corso.
The More You Know from noose under score neck under score 1.
Great movie. One of my faves from Dark Prince
of Halloween. Completely underrated.
It's actually one of my comfort movies.

(01:23:56):
Laugh Out Loud from Mike Freeman77 Great movie.
I love the mix of subtle satanichorror and sly humor.
One of Polanski's most visually appealing films.
And it might also said I like books.
Modern monstrous. The woozy Watsey.
I don't think I've ever seen himin a horror movie, so I guess

(01:24:19):
I'll have to find this now. And so apparently she did watch
it and these are her notes. It's gross that Depp made this
movie with Polanski when he was on the run for raping a child. 2
This felt like a more boring andincomprehensible Da Vinci Code.
3 Corso was wildly unconcerned about all the people dying

(01:24:39):
around him which made the whole thing feel like a stupid dream.
4 This movie had promised but inno way needed to be over 2 hours
and then movie probably would bemore watchable if it was
shorter. And then she also said, why am I
by the only person who doesn't like this movie in the comments
section? No, we have a lot of different

(01:25:01):
takes, which is cool for sure. James Shannon Moran again,
Johnny Depp made some good horror movies.
He did for sure. Maybe we'll cover some more
because he does have a couple good ones there.
Yeah, Scream, Rampod, underratedlittle gem.
And finally from Dissect that film Pod, a movie I always
forget exists until someone brings it up.
I also think of End of Days withArnie when this comes up.

(01:25:24):
That's all I've got since I remember nothing about this one
except the fact that Johnny Depp's in it, man.
Strangely, end of day is this kind of I think they came out
around the same time and they both were devil and they both
were devil oriented so. The 90s for you, end of end of
the decade. Well, that's cool.
We appreciate all your comments.Keep them coming because we

(01:25:45):
really love to hear what everyone has to say and and
thinks about these movies. You know if you like them or if
you don't. We want to hear it, so keep
writing to us before we end the episode.
We want to embrace the madness and let you all know what we've
been up to. So this past week on
Straitjacket Talk we recorded anepisode on Jurassic Park, the

(01:26:05):
original from 19. 95. So I got the chance to rewatch
that. It had been a while low.
Can you do me a favor and give me a little Jeff Goldblum here?
I know. Let's get into it.
What do you want me to say? The line.
Life finds a way. I mean, this is one of my
favorite movies of all time and maybe one of the best movies of
all time, and we talked about that in our review.

(01:26:27):
It actually did it. Son of a bitch.
Actually. Yeah.
And like I always thought it wasinteresting about that is I
guess the book differs. I've never read the book on
Jurassic Park, but it's. Good.
Yeah, I'm told it's pretty good,but.
Like better than the movie? They they made the dinosaurs to
look like what they thought dinosaurs looked like and did
not what dinosaurs actually were.

(01:26:49):
So like that was like a whole big theme of the book, I guess.
But that makes that makes that much, much closer to a horror
movie because it's like. It is a horror movie.
I want to propose a question to y'all that we kind of brought up
in the Straitjacket Talk review,because Steven Spielberg himself
said that his purpose of making Jurassic Park was to make a
sequel to Jaws, but on land. Do you think you see any

(01:27:12):
similarities to that or no Very different?
But like, I guess in a way, likeit's a very different movie, but
I guess. I mean, there's several Jaws on
land in that movie. There isn't a singular Jaws.
Right, there's not one. Right.
You know what would have made Dress Bart better?
Hello, Michael. Great.

(01:27:33):
Oh, yeah, for sure. Well, it's that whole thing
about like man versus nature kind of because in the movie it
comes off very much like these were dinosaurs that were brought
back to life, not like genetic, yeah, crazy experiments.
So I can see where where that kind of makes that makes a lot
of sense. Dan, how about you?
I watched the Ocean Gate documentary that came out this

(01:27:54):
past week on Netflix. Oh it details the events leading
up to owner stock in rush and other 4 passengers aboard have
poorly constructed submersible that imploded during a dive
investigation of the Titanic wreckage.
When this happened a couple years ago, I was enthralled by
the news articles of it so like to see the the documentary of

(01:28:16):
it. I was like, yeah, I'm, I'm
fucking in. Let's go I.
Just remembered James Cameron and his him being like.
Him being like fucking donkey. Yeah, yeah, James Cameron did a
lot of films and stuff, but he'salso.
A submersible expert. Like a submersible expert and
and has actually built a like deep star, I think it was called
or something like that where it was like it went the deepest

(01:28:37):
part of the ocean that you can go, I think.
I think he manned it. So I mean he was walking the
walk and he was like as soon as they they were been looking for
him, but I knew they were gone. Yeah, like I think Cameron's
submersible is like, made out oflike really, really dense metal,
like titanium, whereas Stockton Rushes is made out of fucking

(01:28:57):
carbon fiber. Well, and, and one of the kind
of more macabre things, and I don't know whether this is
covered, but the engineer for that was in front of the Coast
Guard and the Navy and everything like that talking
about it. And everybody told him not to
go. Like 100% of people told him
like this is a bad idea. So I kind of think he might have
wanted to be part of the Titaniclegend and that it may have been

(01:29:20):
not just hubris and arrogance, but there may have been more
sinister undertones. So that which is if you have 10
engineers telling you not to do something and you do it, I don't
know where there's smoke, there's fire.
Yeah, I mean, like, I feel like the whole point of this
documentary is to exonerate the people that did work on that.
They tried every which way to prevent this from happening and

(01:29:45):
explaining to him like all the safety protocols they set up
this acoustic thing that would like measure like if there is
any stress fractures in the holes.
And like they like had like documented all of this stuff him
a couple of dyes he went down onand like they're showing like
the acoustic test and all of thecarbon fibers are snapping.

(01:30:06):
And so that's telling you like the holes about to break and
like there's so much evidence pointing to him being don't this
is a bad idea. And he's like fucking freedom
and do this America. Fuck yeah do.
You recommend watching it? Was it good?
I mean, if you're interested in that story, yeah, go for it.

(01:30:29):
I I like documentaries like thatso.
No, like Mythbusters. Bear Claw, how about you?
I have just returned to the Appalachian wastelands in
Fallout 76. I don't know, I'm I'm one of the
more hardcore Fallout fans. I love me some Fallout.
Fallout 76 kind of has a kind ofeldritch horror theme to it, and
get right back to cosmic horror.I dove back into 76.

(01:30:51):
Well, not my favorite Fallout entry.
It's gotten better over the years.
And yeah, I've just been kind oftooling around in that for a
little while. And also the new Indiana Jones
video game, which is pretty cool, where you get to be
Indiana Jones, which is. It's pretty really got to beat
up some Nazis. You do, you do.
You got to beat up some Nazis and some fascists.

(01:31:12):
You get a couple of different flavors of fascism, of scum to
beat up. And yeah, it's pretty good.
You know, it's voiced really well.
You start off in the opening scene of Raiders of the Lost
Ark, where you're going, where you're in the jungle and you got
to go through that whole temple with, and it's just, it's
pretty, it's pretty cool. And I rewatched that the other

(01:31:34):
I, I totally forgot that Alfred Lena, who's like the the most
British guy in the world, is playing a Peruvian in that, in
that. Movie I saw.
Even the Indiana Jones game is getting DLC in September.
So like they're already a bite. They're trying.
To no the games, the games a lotof if you like Indiana Jones, I

(01:31:55):
don't think you can miss that game.
It's pretty much like an, it's pretty much like if they did a
fourth or fifth movie, which they didn't.
So yeah, never. So it never.
So they never went beyond that third movie.
So this is kind of like this is it, which is really good.
It really it follows the formulas of those other movies.
So it's really, it's really quite good.

(01:32:16):
So it doesn't really kind of follows the first 3 movies and
kind of pretends the other ones didn't really which is good.
That's what I recommended so all.
Right, Logan, how about you? So I watched watched a couple
movies. So I watched the Predator movie,
the new Predator movie on Hulu. It's animated.
Is that a movie or? It's a movie.

(01:32:37):
OK, it's animated though. It's animated.
Oh, I didn't know it was. Animated, so they made like a
couple of these so like they made like a war of the Rings
movie that's animated and I I was kind of pissed off because I
was like oh this is a new war ofthe rings movie and that was
gonna be a live action movie andthen they're like Nah, you know
what we're gonna make they. Are making another live action.
They are, but I thought that's what it was.

(01:32:59):
OK. Yeah, but Predator, killer of
killers, great movie. I think that's like, you know,
anime movies are tough. Like it's not a kids movie.
It's very like different. For me, it was kind of like hard
to get like really into it because I was like, OK, this
isn't like a Disney movie. Definitely it's not.
But I actually did enjoy it a lot.
I thought it was pretty good forwhat they were going for.

(01:33:21):
I watched the Looney Tunes moviejust recently.
That's why I watched Predator movie too is I'm trying to watch
every movie this year release. I thought that was a really good
movie. It's probably one of my favorite
movies of the year. Yeah, you've been talking it up
a lot. Because I think it is really
good. The animation's really good.
Everything about it like is justlike, it's very nostalgic for me

(01:33:42):
because like, it feels like I'm back like in the Looney Tunes
like era of like things. And then As for video games, I
am getting right back into FinalFantasy, playing more Final
Fantasy. That's my, that's my plan.
I'm going to try to play them all.
Well, if you haven't already, please subscribe to the Mouths
of Madness on your favorite audio platform and YouTube.

(01:34:04):
If you've enjoyed your descent into madness, we really would
appreciate it if you would rate US five stars and leave us a
review. You can find us on Instagram at
mouths dot of dot madness. We have a great YouTube channel
where you can check out all of our video content, including
Straitjacket Talk, our exclusivevideo podcast now at Mouths of

(01:34:26):
Madness. Finally, we have our e-mail
address right to Bear Claw at the Padded room@outlook.com and
let him know if you're a fan of rare books.
Yeah. Let me know what collectibles
you have out there and what kindof props or that you may have
gotten a hold of over the years.Do not lie to us about prices.
We will know. We are no old men stuck in a

(01:34:46):
wheelchair. We are old men stuck in a
regular chair. Stuck in the dungeon to do.
Well, that does it for our review on the 9th Gate, but
we'll be back soon with another episode and we're going to be
reviewing Logan's Pick Ghostbusters 2.
But until then, back to the padded room with you all.
Right guys, I got one more thing.

(01:35:08):
All right boys, bring it in. One more thing that I found
have. Coming in here.
Hang on, we got to open the door.
What is this? It is Demons Puerto John from
Friday the 13th. Dang.
This, this is, this is unscrupulous.
This is thoroughly. I don't know how you got to get
hold of this. It took, it took a lot of lot of

(01:35:30):
different people, a lot of different Dean courses.
How was that smell? To enchiladas.
Damn enchiladas. What is that?
Do you hear that bear claw? Pry it open here.
Oh my God, it's demon. Oh my God, it is authentic.
It's a real deal. We're going to be rich.
Yes. Oh.

(01:35:51):
Baby.

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38. The Ninth Gate

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