May 20, 2025 • 34 mins
Use code "moveup" for one free month at Callings.ai
Garrett Rice, co-founder and CEO of Callings.ai, shares how his team is revolutionizing the job search process with AI-powered tools designed to help job seekers navigate an increasingly complex and competitive market.
Key Takeaways:
- Garrett and his co-founder built Callings.ai out of personal frustration with the outdated job search process, aiming to provide an all-in-one platform for job seekers.
- Today’s job market is more competitive due to remote work, global talent pools, and automated ATS systems that often reject resumes before a human sees them.
- Callings.ai offers tools for resume customization, interview prep, networking outreach, and a central job tracking system—saving users time and reducing overwhelm.
- The platform uses AI to semantically match job seekers to relevant roles and suggests improvements to increase their chances of success.
- Job seekers often fail by not maintaining a full “funnel”—Garrett emphasizes the importance of volume and consistency in applications and outreach.
- Callings.ai also includes a feature to help users discover their ideal job path, encouraging reflection and self-discovery through AI-assisted prompts.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome to the Move Up Podcast.
matthew_1_02-14-2025_10 (00:02):
Joining us today is Garrett Rice, the
co-founder and CEO ofcallings.ai.
Garrett and his team builtcallings, ai.
To solve a problem that theypersonally experience, and maybe
you can relate to thefrustrating and outdated job
search experience withbackgrounds at companies like
(00:23):
Apple.
I've heard of that.
And Adobe.
I've also heard of that.
Garrett and his co-founders tooktheir expertise in technology
and innovation to create aplatform that truly supports job
seekers, and you're gonna wantto hear about what it can do.
Calling AI is a game changer,offering AI powered tools to
simplify and optimize every stepof your job.
(00:45):
Hunt from resume customizationsto interview, prep and
networking.
In today's conversation, Garrettand I are going to chat about.
His insights on how the modernjobs market has evolved, how AI
is reshaping career development.
It's reshaping everything aroundus, especially careers and what
job seekers can do to staycompetitive.
(01:06):
If you are currently in the jobsearch or you're maybe aiming
for a promotion or just a betterjob, episode is gonna be packed
with actionable advice you don'twanna miss out on Garrett,
welcome to the job interviewexperience.
squadcaster-dj46_1_02-14- (01:20):
Thank you Matthew Ru.
Really excited to be here.
matthew_1_02-14-2025_101120 (01:22):
So my understanding is that
Calling's AI was born out ofsome personal frustration with
the job search process.
What was that experience like?
squadcaster-dj46_1_02-14- (01:32):
Yeah.
So my partner, Philippe Cayouand I met as part of a career
coaching session.
Both of us had long high techcareers.
Really for the first time in ourcareers, we were looking for a
job.
I'd been at Apple a long timeand in my job changes had always
been just calling somebody thatI knew.
For the first time I was reallytrying to figure out what to do
(01:53):
next.
And same with Philippe.
And as we were going throughthis, both of us are product
guys.
We were always wanting to buildthings.
We increasingly became.
I don't even, frustrated is notstrong enough aghast at what was
available in terms of helpingpeople get a job.
Not on the coaching side but onthe operational product side,
(02:15):
the process side we were just webuilt our own spreadsheets, we
were using our own tools.
Of course, AI has been comingout and so we were using that
and we woke up one day and said,We need to build a better
solution, a better overallsolution that helps manage what
is increasingly a verycomplicated job hunt.
and so we've been working onthat now for about 18 months
(02:37):
and, continually improving andadding features to help people
manage.
What we call the total, it's atotal job hunt platform to
manage the whole total job hunt.
And we think that on average ajob seeker uses 16 different
tools in their job search.
matthew_1_02-14-2025_1011 (02:51):
Yeah, it's insane.
squadcaster-dj46_1_02-14-20 (02:52):
And that is insane.
You can't keep track of that.
And that's the story we heardfrom many job seekers is the job
hunt itself is painful.
And then they have to do it in arinse and repeat fashion, and
they didn't have a home base ora command center to do it.
And so that's what we've beenworking on.
matthew_1_02-14-2025_10112 (03:10):
Yeah the job search has turned into
something you, no matter whatlevel you are in your career you
almost need an executiveassistant.
To help you get through it, tomanage your inbox on all the
application replies, right?
So you re even remember whereyou applied to the rejections,
to did I apply for this job ornot?
Lemme look at my inbox, right?
Lemme find the folder.
(03:31):
it's just absolutely insane how.
I don't think there's any oneperson you can point a finger to
like, Hey, this company screwedit up.
Or, Hey, this A TS screwed itup.
It's just, there's so manycompanies, so many tools, I
think remote work, right?
The volume of jobs you can applyto has certainly made an impact.
(03:51):
What do you think are thebiggest challenges that job
seekers are facing today thatthey didn't face five or 10
years ago?
squadcaster-dj46_1_02-14- (03:59):
Yeah, no, I think you nailed it.
I think the pandemic Zoom remotework has fundamentally changed
what's going on in the jobmarket.
Before that I think there wasWhat we call a geofence, like I
am here in Silicon Valley andyou really were only competing
with other people in SiliconValley for most of my career or
jobs because, the idea of movingfrom somewhere else to Silicon
(04:19):
Valley it's very expensive tobuy a house here, et cetera.
And so you just weren'tcompeting.
And with remote work, that's allgone.
Now it seems like you'recompeting globally for every
role.
And then there's tremendouspressure if you have experience,
they almost are starting to lookto move you because they can get
a.
cheaper or more affordablecandidate.
matthew_1_02-14-20 (04:39):
Interesting.
squadcaster-dj46_1_02-14-20 (04:39):
And the result is it's just
incredibly more competitive.
And then you mentioned the TSsystems, which you talk about a
lot on your podcast.
And I think these are changingeverything too.
It seems like there's lesspersonal recruiters, real human
recruiters out there andcompanies are relying more on
technology to review and.
process, job applications.
(05:01):
And as a result, yourapplications have to be perfect
and you have to apply to a lotmore jobs than historical.
And you have to have a lot ofhelp, to manage all of that.
And, first of all, you need tounderstand what you're doing and
be in that process.
And I think podcasts like thisare essential and the training
that you provide, because if youdon't have the right mindset.
(05:21):
you don't know what you're infor.
And then you know what we'redoing, which is providing a home
base for you to manage it all,
matthew_1_02-14-2025_101120 (05:28):
I had to get your insight how is
AI being used by companieshiring companies?
A TS is everything in between.
squadcaster-dj46_1_02-1 (05:34):
they're using it to review your job
application.
Now, in many cases the TSsystems aren't even ai.
They're keyword based.
Which is worse because they haveno intelligence.
They're processing many more jobapplications without a human
being touching it.
And you've talked about this.
The statistic we hear isanywhere between 75 to, 85% of
(05:56):
all job applications now arenever seen by a human being.
and they get their call list,the list of people they want to
interview out of these systemswithout ever reviewing them
themselves.
and so if you're in that group,this explains why when you
apply, you never hear fromanybody because you've been cast
aside by a robot and, you're inthe rejection stack, and it
(06:17):
might be as simple as forgettingto put a keyword in for some.
aspect of the job search thatthe company, identified as being
important.
And it's not even that you don'thave that experience, it's just
that you didn't list it in theexact way that they wanted it.
That's, pretty scary, honestly,
matthew_1_02-14-2025_101120 (06:32):
I wonder if the AI is in some ways
more fair than keyword because Ican give an example.
Some places have their own fancyname for a salesperson, One I've
personally witnessed this, likea system design specialist.
It's actually just asalesperson, right?
It almost sounds like maybe aarchitect or someone who helps
someone, but that could be abonafide high earning
(06:55):
salesperson.
If the resume a doesn't sayanything about sales, it says
that's, the system designspecialist is their job title.
They might be outta luck.
Where the AI might be able tomake some assumptions based off
that.
do you think that.
AI has ability to see more ofeither a diamond in the rough,
someone who has potential, ahuman could see, but a keyword
(07:16):
can't.
And then also, is it able tomake better assumptions about
someone's experience than akeyword would
squadcaster-dj46_1_02-14-2025 (07:24):
I think it's definitely better
than a keyword search.
I agree with you entirely onthat.
And that's because AI can besemantic.
it can look more holistically atSomebody who's applying and
interpret a little bit.
So I think that helps.
Though even AI still gets caughtup a little bit in, lexicon,
what you mentioned just nowmakes me smile because when I
(07:47):
worked at Apple.
At Apple, if you're the productmanager of Mac OS 10, your title
is Product Marketing manager.
At Apple Product Management andProduct Marketing, which are,
fundamentally one is an outboundrole, one's an inbound role, Are
owned by one person.
Apple has always believed that'sthe case.
And interestingly enough, if youhave product marketing manager
on your resume and you apply toa lot of companies, they will
(08:09):
not consider you for a productmanager role because they assume
that you're outward focusedonly.
and that highlights.
The challenge and sometimes AIcan't even pick that up.
But I do agree it's a muchbetter solution.
In fact, in our platform, we'vebuilt a reverse.
We take your resume and then wego and look at millions of job
posts and compare to try and,semantically and holistically
(08:31):
find opportunities that matchyou.
And we even give you a matchscore so you have a good idea of
how closely you are to that rolein terms of your background and
skills.
And I think AI is better atthat.
I don't know that it's as goodas a really talented recruiter,
but it's certainly better thankeyword matching.
(08:51):
And that's our perception.
And, so to help level theplaying field we've built the
opposite, right?
Which is, looking at your resumeto compare it against those job
posts to give you a sense of howyou'll do, and then also make
recommendations on how toimprove it.
matthew_1_02-14-2025_101120 (09:04):
We mentioned earlier how
overwhelming it is, the numberof applications that need to be
sent out by a job seeker.
How is callings AI helping tosimplify that process?
squadcaster-dj46_1_02-14- (09:17):
We're trying to help manage the entire
workflow.
At the center of everything wedo a tracker Where all of your
jobs go.
So when you're applying, youdon't have to build your own
spreadsheet.
When we talk to job seekers,many of them are using Excel or
Google Docs to build aspreadsheet to manage what is a
increasingly complicated search.
We've tried to take that off oftheir plates and provide that.
(09:38):
And then, We've carefullyanalyzed the steps of the
process of applying for a joband tried to help people.
Not automate that because wefeel like, the mass supply
shotgun solutions that are outthere will quickly go away as
companies block them.
But to help them manage theworkflow and the process.
And that includes everythingfrom finding the jobs that match
(10:01):
them to doing research on thecompany to make certain that
it's a good fit.
To customizing resumes and coverletters.
And there's many tools for that,and, they should pick the one
that makes the most sense forthem.
And then the application processitself.
And then we have a very powerfulnetworking tool.
So what we try and do isidentify the hiring manager.
(10:23):
And bring that to you so you canjust go through that process.
'cause for us, one of the thingsthat people struggle with most,
and you talk about it on yourpodcast all the time, networking
is the key process.
But it's so hard.
It's hard for two reasons,finding the right person and
then that blank page problem.
What do I say?
And I, myself, when I waslooking for a job, would spend,
(10:43):
half a day staring at a pagewhat should I say to this
person?
'cause you feel like you'remooching them to get their help.
and we've really focused on thatand build a platform that says
these are the people that areclosest to that role, and here
is a first draft of a messagethat you can send to them to
reach out.
matthew_1_02-14-2025_101120 (11:00):
it finding like a LinkedIn profile
squadcaster-dj46_1_02-14-202 (11:02):
So we want to be LinkedIn's best
friend.
We know that people's socialgraph exists on LinkedIn.
What LinkedIn doesn't have is afull process for manning a job
hunting.
There's a lot of tools for jobhunting, but it doesn't carry
you through, like a CRM and sowhat we do is we use those same
semantic and powerful ai.
Capabilities to go out and lookat all the people that are
(11:25):
connected with a role and bringthe people that are most
relevant and then also, like Isaid, give you, first steps to
do that outreach.
'cause you're gonna have tooutreach to a lot of people when
you're looking for a job and themodern job hunt, as we've talked
about, you might have to applyfor.
Hundreds of jobs.
On average, I think the numberis 50, but I think that
(11:47):
statistic came from earlieryears, and my bet is that a lot
of people are applying tohundreds of jobs at this point,
which is terrifying and awful,but the reality that they have
to undertake.
matthew_1_02-14-2025_10112 (11:59):
It's interesting that you're drafting
the message because the numberone thing I tend to help people
with is whatever they write,whether it's a cover letter or a
message, we need to make thatabout 90% shorter.
'Cause a lot of times people.
when people reach out, they'relike, oh, this hiring manager is
gonna wanna hear my life story.
And a lot of times I'm sorry tolisteners, but a lot of people
tend to think if they feel badenough for me, they're gonna
(12:21):
gimme a shot.
And so then you start hearingabout the layoff and the dog and
everything in betweenUnfortunately, that doesn't help
the company get anything thatthey want.
And so if you're helping scriptthings, and my assumption is
you're not writing super longdocuments that's incredibly
helpful and it's just hard toknow what to say.
When you write a message do Inot include anything and just
(12:42):
make it short enough to read ordo I include enough to get a
reply so if you're helpingpeople do that.
Just the time that saves and Iwould assume it's a better
message overall than 99% of uscan do.
That helps a lot.
squadcaster-dj46_1_02-14- (12:54):
Yeah.
No, I love what you're sayingthere.
And our intention is not thatwhat is sent is the message that
our AI helps generate.
It's a starting point, right?
You should never submit anythingAI creates without reading it
and personalizing it.
But starting without that blankpage, I think is a great
starting point.
That's what we really try tosolve, because if you have
something you can always say,that's not what I wanna say.
(13:16):
And you could rewrite it, but ifyou have a blank page, then you
just stare.
matthew_1_02-14-2025_1 (13:21):
Writer's block is the enemy of job
seekers.
What mistakes are you seeing?
Job seekers make in their jobsearch 2024 or 2025 and how can
they fix it?
squadcaster-dj46_1_02-14-2 (13:31):
Yeah I come at it slightly
differently in the sense that Ithink the biggest mistake is
letting the job hunt get to themto the point where they don't
send enough messages out.
it's a process where you have togo through this and get into
this workflow process.
Of course the messages arecritically important, and I
certainly love the recentpodcast where you talked about
being too nice at the end ofinterviews, and I think what you
(13:52):
just said about oversharing onyour outreach messages.
that plays a big role.
Obviously how you projectyourself makes a big difference
in this.
But equally important, at leastfor us, is simply recognizing
that you have to do the work asa job seeker.
and that involves, filling yourfunnel.
matthew_1_02-14-2025_1011 (14:10):
Would you say you look at this from
the perspective of a salespersonwhen you say something like
funnel or marketing?
squadcaster-dj46_1_02-14-20 (14:16):
I'm not a, I, my career wasn't, I
was not in sales except at thebeginning of my career, but I
did learn a valuable lessonabout that, in marketing and
sales, which is simply that, andprobably it's true for dating
and jobs and a lot of otherthings is, you have to give
yourself enough opportunities.
And the only way to do that isto put yourself out there a lot.
(14:37):
And, I don't know what thestatistics are.
You might have a better sense,but how many applications do you
make before you get an interviewin the modern job market?
We're, I'm seeing charts onReddit where people are applying
to 500 jobs and get threeinterviews.
And so there in that funnelthat, the top of the funnel is
500 and the bottom is three,which is.
(14:57):
Agonizing, but the reality andthen what do you think the
percentages are of interviews tosuccess?
It's probably still one out ofevery four or one out of every
five maybe.
matthew_1_02-14-2025_1011 (15:10):
Yeah.
squadcaster-dj46_1_02-14-202 (15:11):
So you just, going into it, I think
as a job seeker, you just haveto recognize that and say, okay,
this is the way, what is theMandalorian, this is the way.
matthew_1_02-14-2025_101120 (15:19):
the way I need to, one of the things
I like to talk about and I knowthe stats and I've just been
there, but in coaching a lot ofpeople and talking to a lot of
people, probably I may havetalked to more.
Job seekers than anyone outthere as that's not interviewing
them, right?
That's like kind of the ear thatcan be lent to them.
That they tell me things thatthey wouldn't tell an employer
(15:41):
or anything else.
I need to have, I'm not like aWOOWOO guy at all, but I need to
either have a psychologist, ascientist, or an astrologist on,
'cause I've witnessed this manytimes.
This weird thing.
You talk about the funnel andyou get discouraged, you apply,
you take a break, all thosethings.
There's this really weird thingI've witnessed countless times.
I see it all the time.
(16:01):
With my interview.
Coaching is No interviews, nointerviews, whatever.
No offers.
six months, a year, and then youget one offer, and then you have
three within the same.
Typically what I see is 10 dayspan and maybe it's a law of
attraction.
I don't have anything againstthat.
That's just not how I live mylife.
It's this weird thing thathappens for people and if you
don't have a funnel that can'thappen at all.
If you apply for one job, youcan only get one offer max.
(16:24):
There's some, and I thinkthere's just, there are some
basic truths about if you areinterviewing for multiple jobs,
you seem less desperate and thatdoes attract employers in a
certain way.
If you seem really obsessed I'dlove to work here, please give
me a shot.
that never goes over well.
So there's just some basic, Ithink psychology or like playing
hard to get or.
(16:45):
in the very back of your mind,when you show up to interview
one and you have three morescheduled within the next couple
weeks, you're just going to actdifferently and more confident
and less needy.
So there, there's that side aswell.
But that unquantifiable thingthat happens and I've, you
wouldn't imagine a number ofemails I get, like I had no
offers.
For seven months and now I havefour or three and I am screwed.
(17:06):
I'm scared to death'cause Idon't know what to do.
I didn't, I don't want any ofthese jobs.
I just want a counteroffer frommy current employer and all of a
sudden, so anyway, we'll get offthat subject.
But that's the counter to thefunnel, right?
squadcaster-dj46_1_02-14-2 (17:16):
It's probably worth what is your
advice on that?
If you're, if you get threeopportunities
matthew_1_02-14-2025_101120 (17:22):
You
squadcaster-dj46_1_02-14-202 (17:22):
I.
matthew_1_02-14-2025_101120 (17:22):
'em all against each other what I
ask for, would basically moremoney or more PTO, and then I'd
figure out what job you reallywant or maybe the two
squadcaster-dj46_1_02-14- (17:30):
Yeah.
matthew_1_02-14-2025_101120 (17:30):
If you're waiting for another offer
or you want things to get fasttracked, I would say.
I just wanna make you aware, Ididn't mention this in our
process, but I have beeninterviewing for other jobs and
I've actually received anotheroffer or two other offers.
However your company is the oneI'm most interested in.
So if you feel the same wayabout me as I do you I would
love to receive an offer fromyou if possible by, Friday
(17:53):
afternoon based off my timeline,or if you just want to figure
out which offer to take.
I just start, I look how muchthey're for, and I just say, I
have two other offers.
I've been really pleased withhow in demand my skills are and
the value that's been seen bythese couple employers on how I
can contribute.
With that, I'm currently lookingat x, y, Z to x, y, Z per year.
(18:15):
My goal is to work for you.
That's where
squadcaster-dj46_1_02-14- (18:17):
Yeah.
matthew_1_02-14-2025_101120 (18:17):
is.
I'm passionate about yourculture, where your leadership
team can take this.
I'm here to help make this work,but wanted to let you know where
I'm at.
There's no right way to say itbecause it depends on, are you
talking to a hiring manager?
Are you talking to an entrylevel recruiter?
Are you talking to the businessowner?
Is it tech, is it accounting?
Those are gonna be completely, Iwould word that completely
differently for each one.
squadcaster-dj46_1_02-14- (18:36):
Yeah.
matthew_1_02-14-2025_1011 (18:37):
yeah, it's a good place to be.
It's stressful a lot of peopleit's worse than not having any
offers, but you always come outahead in that situation.
squadcaster-dj46_1_02-14- (18:45):
Yeah.
No, isn't that interesting?
we don't like no offers, butwhen you get multiple ones, it
puts us in this weird situationlike, am I gonna let these
people down?
it's Fascinating on that.
but I agree with you, it's muchbetter to have three offers than
none.
and it's interesting, one of thethings that I think people learn
is you don't wanna promote toomuch that you're unemployed.
Like you don't want to have thatopen to work thing on LinkedIn.
matthew_1_02-14-2025_101120 (19:05):
No, I agree
squadcaster-dj46_1_02-14-202 (19:06):
To be desired and to be pursued,
that's a helpful thing whenyou're looking for a role.
and that's what we're trying toget people to right?
Is that moment where they haveoptions.
Because then they can pick theone that they really want.
we named our company callings.aibecause we really want to help
people, not just get a job, butto find something that they
really are passionate about.
and honestly what you'redescribing puts people in a
(19:27):
better position to do that.
'Cause hopefully then you'repicking the one of the three
that you really want and notjust.
Desperately taking a job, whichmany of us have to do, right?
If we need the income.
But the dream is to find thatrole you really want and get it
and get compensated well, andhave the corporate culture be
(19:48):
great.
So when you go there, you enjoyit.
one of the things we sawstatistically is, on every month
there's anywhere between 10 and13 million people looking for a
job in the United Statesactively.
But the interesting statisticfor us is 96% of all.
Job holders are at leastpassively looking for their next
(20:08):
role.
People are always looking toimprove themselves.
And so that means that, there'sa lot of people who are not
looking for a job but are opento a job.
If they can be found we wouldlove to get there with
callings.ai to be a place wherepeople can be found and not just
chase and pursue.
matthew_1_02-14-2025_101120 (20:26):
I would assume you're pretty well
versed with ai with what youguys do, but just overall is
that a fair assumption?
squadcaster-dj46_1_02-14- (20:32):
Yeah.
We, so our platform is not justai.
Our feeling is that AI is a tooland a very powerful one that's
gonna change our lives.
But, it is necessary, but notsufficient for a really great
platform.
We also want it to be.
A platform that's usable, thatuses basic the SaaS technologies
(20:53):
that we're all familiar with,the CRM technologies we're all
familiar with, and AI comes inat the places that really matter
most, right?
Helping you do a better job ofsearching and finding things
that really match you, helpingyou to.
Better your personal brand andarticulate yourself better and
tell your story better.
Helping you to condense a lot ofinformation to something usable.
(21:14):
Like for example, an interview,prep report.
Helping you to go through largedatabases of people to find the
people that you really should bereaching out to for a role.
That's where AI seems to bereally powerful.
And we got into it, my partnerand I, we're old enough to have
seen several of theserevolutions before.
I'm old enough to see, even morethan I should admit, but, I was
(21:37):
around, my dad had one of thefirst PCs ever in my hometown.
So I'm that old.
But, I saw the internetrevolution in 95.
The.
Smartphone revolution, in thetwo thousands.
And, this one's gonna be biggerthan all of those, I think.
And so what we're trying to dois apply it in ways that really
(21:57):
make sense for people.
and in our case we've picked,the job hunt process and the
steps that are involved in that.
And, but we see it applicable inother areas that we're working
on, to help people.
And, so much of it is justtrying to figure the right way
to do it, and I think that'slistening to people and trying
to bring them tools that solveproblems that they have.
matthew_1_02-14-2025_101120 (22:18):
So we know the, one of the answers
is job seekers people lookingfor a role or a better role.
But overall, who is callings AIfor,
squadcaster-dj46_1_02-14-202 (22:30):
It is for people that are looking
to find their true calling.
Now that is job seeking.
But it could be more than that.
It could be career changing,right?
Or adjusting or pursuing.
One of the things that we have,it's a beta feature on the app,
is we read their resume and thenwe ask questions.
And if you're willing to gothrough the beta version of our
product and answer all thosequestions, we help generate an
(22:53):
ideal job report for you thathelps you.
We reflect back to people Whatthey're saying and what they're
thinking.
In talking to a lot of jobseekers, we have this impression
that we know what we're doing orwhere we want to go, and that
it's clear as lightning I don'tthink it always is.
A lot of times we feel it atsome level that we can't
articulate, that we want to goin a different direction in our
(23:15):
lives, in our careers, and howdo we suss that out, through the
Socratic methods, throughthinking and interacting and
bouncing ideas off, and our betafeature does that and, it allows
us to help tell their story withthem so that they can look at
it, they can adjust it, theycan, hopefully have some
revelations about, oh, that'sinteresting.
(23:37):
The way I answer all thosequestions leads to this type of
response.
This ideal job report isdifferent than I thought.
And hopefully we can bring thatto people to help them
understand where they want togo.
I think some people really knowit, but not everybody does.
matthew_1_02-14-2025_101120 (23:52):
and some people I think are working
really hard in roles they thinkis the right role for them and
working hard is good, but I,what I mean is.
Kinda exhausting themselves,trying to be good at something
that they're not meant to begood at.
And it, there's always beencareer counselors, not coaches,
I'm saying counselors, right?
A lot of people, or some peoplework with them in high school,
before ai, it's hard to knowwhat you don't know.
(24:13):
And it, it seems like whatyou're doing is the perfect way
to.
Find that match and maybe you'redoing exactly what you should be
doing.
You just, maybe it's a differentindustry or maybe just keep at
it, but apply for more jobs.
But for some people it's likeyou're trying, you're trying to
be a poet, but you should be asongwriter cause that's what
you're really good at and that'swhat comes easy for you.
For so many people that's whatends up happening, is I was
(24:35):
trying so hard to be good at Iwas trying to really so hard to
be a CPA and I was so drainedevery day.
But it turns out what I'm reallygood at is, working with people
and that's what gave me energy.
Or sometimes, a lot of timesit's the opposite, right?
I don't wanna work with people,it exhausts me.
Just gimme a, gimme an Excelspreadsheet and I'll make
anything you ask happen.
So it sounds like that's alittle bit of what you're doing
(24:56):
is helping people maybe refineand open their eyes to.
What else they can be doing andthe huge upside of discovering
those things.
squadcaster-dj46_1_02-14- (25:04):
Yeah.
No, I, you said it very well,and self discovery.
will lead to better happiness.
My dad used to say this, I lovethis expression.
If you find what you love,you'll never work another day in
your life.
matthew_1_02-14-2025_1011 (25:15):
Yeah.
squadcaster-dj46_1_02-14-202 (25:16):
he didn't write that.
I think he stole it from MarkTwain or somebody else.
but there's a lot of wisdom inthat.
Just what you said speaks a lotto me.
I've had jobs where I'm like,this is the job I always wanted,
and, I'm working my butt off.
Why am I not happy?
And you realize it's because.
You look at it from the outside,it seems like what you want, but
(25:36):
when you're inside, theexperience is totally different.
Actually people, when I was atApple, people used to call me up
all the time.
Oh my God, I just saw the newApple event.
I really wanna work there.
And I used to say to them like,you need to understand when you
watch an Apple event you'retasting the delicious sausage.
When you work at Apple, you haveto grind up pig lips to make
that sausage.
It's a different experience.
(25:58):
it can be enjoyable, but youjust need to understand that
it's different than that.
matthew_1_02-14-2025_101120 (26:03):
As far as your tools go and the
outcomes, what's some feedbackor success stories you've
received from users?
squadcaster-dj46_1_02-14- (26:11):
We're just coming outta beta so very
early.
But we've had a number of userswho've used our platform to
success.
and what they're reflecting backis what we'd hope for, right?
Which is we help them manage anunwieldy process better.
And help them be more productiveand ultimately more successful
in their pursuit.
And, one of our users he, Idon't know how he got the
(26:33):
statistic, but he said, you mademe 65% more effective.
I don't think he measured thatpersonally, but it really is
managing the whole job hunt inone place.
Waking up every day to go to oneplace for where you're at and
then helping all those stepsalong the way and helping to
define them so that you knowwhat that manufacturing process
is as you do your job.
(26:55):
And then obviously the piecesinside Which are not process
oriented.
How do you convey yourself, howdo you prepare?
And, for those, I think peopleare gonna still use multiple
resources, but having a placewhere you wake up every day and
do your work think is a goodstarting point for a job.
Hunt
matthew_1_02-14-2025_101120 (27:13):
The website is callings.ai.
Is that correct?
squadcaster-dj46_1_02- (27:17):
callings ai.
That's right.
matthew_1_02-14-2025_101120 (27:18):
And we're gonna link to that in this
episode of description, butthat's also easy to type.
I'd encourage listeners I thinkit's really cool what I've spent
time on the site.
You can sign up for free and useparts of it for free.
And then there's a paid version,which is very reasonable.
And what's interesting to me andI'd love, to hear from listeners
is how it helps you.
I think for people who are alittle disorganized, or maybe
(27:42):
you're just.
Busy with a job or family or athousand other things seems like
a really good way to haveeverything organized and not
have your brain power be wastedon that.
Put it towards interviewing ormaybe get getting yourself
right.
Exercising getting in a betterhead space for your interviews
or for your next job?
Just that getting everything inone place.
I've been there, I've believe meI've applied for plenty of jobs
(28:04):
in my life and I've had foldersin my Gmail inbox, 20, 23 job
squadcaster-dj46_1_02-14 (28:09):
Right,
matthew_1_02-14-2025_101120 (28:10):
get a reply, you gotta drag for me.
You drag it in there so that youcan go reflect back and make
sure, I've, with all the goofybusiness names these days,
right?
squadcaster-dj46_1_02-14- (28:18):
Which version of the resume did I send
Which job
matthew_1_02-14-2025_1011 (28:21):
which that, so go
squadcaster-dj46_1_02-14-202 (28:22):
I.
matthew_1_02-14-2025_101120 (28:22):
it out.
And that, it seems like that'sjust scratching the surface of
the other tools that you offer,but organization is what does
Jocko willing say that I thinkis really discipline equals
freedom, I think andorganization
squadcaster-dj46_1_02-14-2025 (28:35):
I like that.
matthew_1_02-14-2025_1011 (28:36):
Which I, I'm a big fan of.
I don't wake up at 4:00 AM likehe does, but I listen to the
cool stuff that he says, butbefore we close up here.
You've learned a lot and you'rethe, I don't know what you say,
the starting line or the frontlines of technology, AI and the
job search and careers, which isit's revolutionary and it's also
(28:56):
scary.
So with everything that you'velearned and have made available
for job seekers, I'm wonderingif you have any words of wisdom
or motivation for our listeners.
squadcaster-dj46_1_02-14-2025 (29:10):
I think the main thing that I
would convey, especially aboutAI is.
It's just another tool.
It's a very powerful tool andit's gonna be a very disruptive
tool in how our society works,how business works and more.
But those that have succeededand thrived, adopt the new tools
(29:31):
quickly and learn how to usethem and build their.
mentality in their lives aroundwhat the new tools can do to
help them be more successful.
And so I encourage yourlisteners, and I'm sure that
they're doing this, is don't runaway from it.
matthew_1_02-14-2025_1011 (29:48):
Yeah.
squadcaster-dj46_1_02-14-2 (29:48):
Lean into it.
Learn how, go.
If you haven't played aroundwith it, go to chat GBT or Clog
or one of these other tools.
Play around, learn it.
Understand, because you'lldemystify it in your mind and
then you can use it to besteffect And.
It will make you more productiveand it will not rob you of, your
(30:09):
unique essence.
It could help amplify it if youknow how to use it, right..
squadcaster-dj46_2_02-14-202 (30:14):
so I really appreciate you having
me on.
One of the things I wanted tooffer to your listeners is
they're welcome to come to theplatform and try it.
We will give'em the first monthfor free.
By the way, searching andtracking or free always for all
users, whether they pay us ornot.
The AI features, it's 29.99 amonth, and then we offer
discounts for longercommitments.
(30:35):
I'll send you that coupon and welove your users to check it out.
And there's a blue button onevery page of our site called
feedback.
We read it every day.
My, my co-founder and I, so youknow, if there are things that
you'd like to see, we'll keepworking to make it better.
matthew_2_02-14-2025_1050 (30:52):
Cool, and we'll put that code future,
Matthew will put that code righton top of the link in this
episode's description too, soyou can see it there.
Thank you so much for joiningus.
Looking forward to having youback.
We can talk more about this acouple months from now.
Welcome to the Move Up Podcast.
matthew_1_02-14-2025_10 (00:02):
Joining us today is Garrett Rice, the
co-founder and CEO ofcallings.ai.
Garrett and his team builtcallings, ai.
To solve a problem that theypersonally experience, and maybe
you can relate to thefrustrating and outdated job
search experience withbackgrounds at companies like
(00:23):
Apple.
I've heard of that.
And Adobe.
I've also heard of that.
Garrett and his co-founders tooktheir expertise in technology
and innovation to create aplatform that truly supports job
seekers, and you're gonna wantto hear about what it can do.
Calling AI is a game changer,offering AI powered tools to
simplify and optimize every stepof your job.
(00:45):
Hunt from resume customizationsto interview, prep and
networking.
In today's conversation, Garrettand I are going to chat about.
His insights on how the modernjobs market has evolved, how AI
is reshaping career development.
It's reshaping everything aroundus, especially careers and what
job seekers can do to staycompetitive.
(01:06):
If you are currently in the jobsearch or you're maybe aiming
for a promotion or just a betterjob, episode is gonna be packed
with actionable advice you don'twanna miss out on Garrett,
welcome to the job interviewexperience.
squadcaster-dj46_1_02-14- (01:20):
Thank you Matthew Ru.
Really excited to be here.
matthew_1_02-14-2025_101120 (01:22):
So my understanding is that
Calling's AI was born out ofsome personal frustration with
the job search process.
What was that experience like?
squadcaster-dj46_1_02-14- (01:32):
Yeah.
So my partner, Philippe Cayouand I met as part of a career
coaching session.
Both of us had long high techcareers.
Really for the first time in ourcareers, we were looking for a
job.
I'd been at Apple a long timeand in my job changes had always
been just calling somebody thatI knew.
For the first time I was reallytrying to figure out what to do
(01:53):
next.
And same with Philippe.
And as we were going throughthis, both of us are product
guys.
We were always wanting to buildthings.
We increasingly became.
I don't even, frustrated is notstrong enough aghast at what was
available in terms of helpingpeople get a job.
Not on the coaching side but onthe operational product side,
(02:15):
the process side we were just webuilt our own spreadsheets, we
were using our own tools.
Of course, AI has been comingout and so we were using that
and we woke up one day and said,We need to build a better
solution, a better overallsolution that helps manage what
is increasingly a verycomplicated job hunt.
and so we've been working onthat now for about 18 months
(02:37):
and, continually improving andadding features to help people
manage.
What we call the total, it's atotal job hunt platform to
manage the whole total job hunt.
And we think that on average ajob seeker uses 16 different
tools in their job search.
matthew_1_02-14-2025_1011 (02:51):
Yeah, it's insane.
squadcaster-dj46_1_02-14-20 (02:52):
And that is insane.
You can't keep track of that.
And that's the story we heardfrom many job seekers is the job
hunt itself is painful.
And then they have to do it in arinse and repeat fashion, and
they didn't have a home base ora command center to do it.
And so that's what we've beenworking on.
matthew_1_02-14-2025_10112 (03:10):
Yeah the job search has turned into
something you, no matter whatlevel you are in your career you
almost need an executiveassistant.
To help you get through it, tomanage your inbox on all the
application replies, right?
So you re even remember whereyou applied to the rejections,
to did I apply for this job ornot?
Lemme look at my inbox, right?
Lemme find the folder.
(03:31):
it's just absolutely insane how.
I don't think there's any oneperson you can point a finger to
like, Hey, this company screwedit up.
Or, Hey, this A TS screwed itup.
It's just, there's so manycompanies, so many tools, I
think remote work, right?
The volume of jobs you can applyto has certainly made an impact.
(03:51):
What do you think are thebiggest challenges that job
seekers are facing today thatthey didn't face five or 10
years ago?
squadcaster-dj46_1_02-14- (03:59):
Yeah, no, I think you nailed it.
I think the pandemic Zoom remotework has fundamentally changed
what's going on in the jobmarket.
Before that I think there wasWhat we call a geofence, like I
am here in Silicon Valley andyou really were only competing
with other people in SiliconValley for most of my career or
jobs because, the idea of movingfrom somewhere else to Silicon
(04:19):
Valley it's very expensive tobuy a house here, et cetera.
And so you just weren'tcompeting.
And with remote work, that's allgone.
Now it seems like you'recompeting globally for every
role.
And then there's tremendouspressure if you have experience,
they almost are starting to lookto move you because they can get
a.
cheaper or more affordablecandidate.
matthew_1_02-14-20 (04:39):
Interesting.
squadcaster-dj46_1_02-14-20 (04:39):
And the result is it's just
incredibly more competitive.
And then you mentioned the TSsystems, which you talk about a
lot on your podcast.
And I think these are changingeverything too.
It seems like there's lesspersonal recruiters, real human
recruiters out there andcompanies are relying more on
technology to review and.
process, job applications.
(05:01):
And as a result, yourapplications have to be perfect
and you have to apply to a lotmore jobs than historical.
And you have to have a lot ofhelp, to manage all of that.
And, first of all, you need tounderstand what you're doing and
be in that process.
And I think podcasts like thisare essential and the training
that you provide, because if youdon't have the right mindset.
(05:21):
you don't know what you're infor.
And then you know what we'redoing, which is providing a home
base for you to manage it all,
matthew_1_02-14-2025_101120 (05:28):
I had to get your insight how is
AI being used by companieshiring companies?
A TS is everything in between.
squadcaster-dj46_1_02-1 (05:34):
they're using it to review your job
application.
Now, in many cases the TSsystems aren't even ai.
They're keyword based.
Which is worse because they haveno intelligence.
They're processing many more jobapplications without a human
being touching it.
And you've talked about this.
The statistic we hear isanywhere between 75 to, 85% of
(05:56):
all job applications now arenever seen by a human being.
and they get their call list,the list of people they want to
interview out of these systemswithout ever reviewing them
themselves.
and so if you're in that group,this explains why when you
apply, you never hear fromanybody because you've been cast
aside by a robot and, you're inthe rejection stack, and it
(06:17):
might be as simple as forgettingto put a keyword in for some.
aspect of the job search thatthe company, identified as being
important.
And it's not even that you don'thave that experience, it's just
that you didn't list it in theexact way that they wanted it.
That's, pretty scary, honestly,
matthew_1_02-14-2025_101120 (06:32):
I wonder if the AI is in some ways
more fair than keyword because Ican give an example.
Some places have their own fancyname for a salesperson, One I've
personally witnessed this, likea system design specialist.
It's actually just asalesperson, right?
It almost sounds like maybe aarchitect or someone who helps
someone, but that could be abonafide high earning
(06:55):
salesperson.
If the resume a doesn't sayanything about sales, it says
that's, the system designspecialist is their job title.
They might be outta luck.
Where the AI might be able tomake some assumptions based off
that.
do you think that.
AI has ability to see more ofeither a diamond in the rough,
someone who has potential, ahuman could see, but a keyword
(07:16):
can't.
And then also, is it able tomake better assumptions about
someone's experience than akeyword would
squadcaster-dj46_1_02-14-2025 (07:24):
I think it's definitely better
than a keyword search.
I agree with you entirely onthat.
And that's because AI can besemantic.
it can look more holistically atSomebody who's applying and
interpret a little bit.
So I think that helps.
Though even AI still gets caughtup a little bit in, lexicon,
what you mentioned just nowmakes me smile because when I
(07:47):
worked at Apple.
At Apple, if you're the productmanager of Mac OS 10, your title
is Product Marketing manager.
At Apple Product Management andProduct Marketing, which are,
fundamentally one is an outboundrole, one's an inbound role, Are
owned by one person.
Apple has always believed that'sthe case.
And interestingly enough, if youhave product marketing manager
on your resume and you apply toa lot of companies, they will
(08:09):
not consider you for a productmanager role because they assume
that you're outward focusedonly.
and that highlights.
The challenge and sometimes AIcan't even pick that up.
But I do agree it's a muchbetter solution.
In fact, in our platform, we'vebuilt a reverse.
We take your resume and then wego and look at millions of job
posts and compare to try and,semantically and holistically
(08:31):
find opportunities that matchyou.
And we even give you a matchscore so you have a good idea of
how closely you are to that rolein terms of your background and
skills.
And I think AI is better atthat.
I don't know that it's as goodas a really talented recruiter,
but it's certainly better thankeyword matching.
(08:51):
And that's our perception.
And, so to help level theplaying field we've built the
opposite, right?
Which is, looking at your resumeto compare it against those job
posts to give you a sense of howyou'll do, and then also make
recommendations on how toimprove it.
matthew_1_02-14-2025_101120 (09:04):
We mentioned earlier how
overwhelming it is, the numberof applications that need to be
sent out by a job seeker.
How is callings AI helping tosimplify that process?
squadcaster-dj46_1_02-14- (09:17):
We're trying to help manage the entire
workflow.
At the center of everything wedo a tracker Where all of your
jobs go.
So when you're applying, youdon't have to build your own
spreadsheet.
When we talk to job seekers,many of them are using Excel or
Google Docs to build aspreadsheet to manage what is a
increasingly complicated search.
We've tried to take that off oftheir plates and provide that.
(09:38):
And then, We've carefullyanalyzed the steps of the
process of applying for a joband tried to help people.
Not automate that because wefeel like, the mass supply
shotgun solutions that are outthere will quickly go away as
companies block them.
But to help them manage theworkflow and the process.
And that includes everythingfrom finding the jobs that match
(10:01):
them to doing research on thecompany to make certain that
it's a good fit.
To customizing resumes and coverletters.
And there's many tools for that,and, they should pick the one
that makes the most sense forthem.
And then the application processitself.
And then we have a very powerfulnetworking tool.
So what we try and do isidentify the hiring manager.
(10:23):
And bring that to you so you canjust go through that process.
'cause for us, one of the thingsthat people struggle with most,
and you talk about it on yourpodcast all the time, networking
is the key process.
But it's so hard.
It's hard for two reasons,finding the right person and
then that blank page problem.
What do I say?
And I, myself, when I waslooking for a job, would spend,
(10:43):
half a day staring at a pagewhat should I say to this
person?
'cause you feel like you'remooching them to get their help.
and we've really focused on thatand build a platform that says
these are the people that areclosest to that role, and here
is a first draft of a messagethat you can send to them to
reach out.
matthew_1_02-14-2025_101120 (11:00):
it finding like a LinkedIn profile
squadcaster-dj46_1_02-14-202 (11:02):
So we want to be LinkedIn's best
friend.
We know that people's socialgraph exists on LinkedIn.
What LinkedIn doesn't have is afull process for manning a job
hunting.
There's a lot of tools for jobhunting, but it doesn't carry
you through, like a CRM and sowhat we do is we use those same
semantic and powerful ai.
Capabilities to go out and lookat all the people that are
(11:25):
connected with a role and bringthe people that are most
relevant and then also, like Isaid, give you, first steps to
do that outreach.
'cause you're gonna have tooutreach to a lot of people when
you're looking for a job and themodern job hunt, as we've talked
about, you might have to applyfor.
Hundreds of jobs.
On average, I think the numberis 50, but I think that
(11:47):
statistic came from earlieryears, and my bet is that a lot
of people are applying tohundreds of jobs at this point,
which is terrifying and awful,but the reality that they have
to undertake.
matthew_1_02-14-2025_10112 (11:59):
It's interesting that you're drafting
the message because the numberone thing I tend to help people
with is whatever they write,whether it's a cover letter or a
message, we need to make thatabout 90% shorter.
'Cause a lot of times people.
when people reach out, they'relike, oh, this hiring manager is
gonna wanna hear my life story.
And a lot of times I'm sorry tolisteners, but a lot of people
tend to think if they feel badenough for me, they're gonna
(12:21):
gimme a shot.
And so then you start hearingabout the layoff and the dog and
everything in betweenUnfortunately, that doesn't help
the company get anything thatthey want.
And so if you're helping scriptthings, and my assumption is
you're not writing super longdocuments that's incredibly
helpful and it's just hard toknow what to say.
When you write a message do Inot include anything and just
(12:42):
make it short enough to read ordo I include enough to get a
reply so if you're helpingpeople do that.
Just the time that saves and Iwould assume it's a better
message overall than 99% of uscan do.
That helps a lot.
squadcaster-dj46_1_02-14- (12:54):
Yeah.
No, I love what you're sayingthere.
And our intention is not thatwhat is sent is the message that
our AI helps generate.
It's a starting point, right?
You should never submit anythingAI creates without reading it
and personalizing it.
But starting without that blankpage, I think is a great
starting point.
That's what we really try tosolve, because if you have
something you can always say,that's not what I wanna say.
(13:16):
And you could rewrite it, but ifyou have a blank page, then you
just stare.
matthew_1_02-14-2025_1 (13:21):
Writer's block is the enemy of job
seekers.
What mistakes are you seeing?
Job seekers make in their jobsearch 2024 or 2025 and how can
they fix it?
squadcaster-dj46_1_02-14-2 (13:31):
Yeah I come at it slightly
differently in the sense that Ithink the biggest mistake is
letting the job hunt get to themto the point where they don't
send enough messages out.
it's a process where you have togo through this and get into
this workflow process.
Of course the messages arecritically important, and I
certainly love the recentpodcast where you talked about
being too nice at the end ofinterviews, and I think what you
(13:52):
just said about oversharing onyour outreach messages.
that plays a big role.
Obviously how you projectyourself makes a big difference
in this.
But equally important, at leastfor us, is simply recognizing
that you have to do the work asa job seeker.
and that involves, filling yourfunnel.
matthew_1_02-14-2025_1011 (14:10):
Would you say you look at this from
the perspective of a salespersonwhen you say something like
funnel or marketing?
squadcaster-dj46_1_02-14-20 (14:16):
I'm not a, I, my career wasn't, I
was not in sales except at thebeginning of my career, but I
did learn a valuable lessonabout that, in marketing and
sales, which is simply that, andprobably it's true for dating
and jobs and a lot of otherthings is, you have to give
yourself enough opportunities.
And the only way to do that isto put yourself out there a lot.
(14:37):
And, I don't know what thestatistics are.
You might have a better sense,but how many applications do you
make before you get an interviewin the modern job market?
We're, I'm seeing charts onReddit where people are applying
to 500 jobs and get threeinterviews.
And so there in that funnelthat, the top of the funnel is
500 and the bottom is three,which is.
(14:57):
Agonizing, but the reality andthen what do you think the
percentages are of interviews tosuccess?
It's probably still one out ofevery four or one out of every
five maybe.
matthew_1_02-14-2025_1011 (15:10):
Yeah.
squadcaster-dj46_1_02-14-202 (15:11):
So you just, going into it, I think
as a job seeker, you just haveto recognize that and say, okay,
this is the way, what is theMandalorian, this is the way.
matthew_1_02-14-2025_101120 (15:19):
the way I need to, one of the things
I like to talk about and I knowthe stats and I've just been
there, but in coaching a lot ofpeople and talking to a lot of
people, probably I may havetalked to more.
Job seekers than anyone outthere as that's not interviewing
them, right?
That's like kind of the ear thatcan be lent to them.
That they tell me things thatthey wouldn't tell an employer
(15:41):
or anything else.
I need to have, I'm not like aWOOWOO guy at all, but I need to
either have a psychologist, ascientist, or an astrologist on,
'cause I've witnessed this manytimes.
This weird thing.
You talk about the funnel andyou get discouraged, you apply,
you take a break, all thosethings.
There's this really weird thingI've witnessed countless times.
I see it all the time.
(16:01):
With my interview.
Coaching is No interviews, nointerviews, whatever.
No offers.
six months, a year, and then youget one offer, and then you have
three within the same.
Typically what I see is 10 dayspan and maybe it's a law of
attraction.
I don't have anything againstthat.
That's just not how I live mylife.
It's this weird thing thathappens for people and if you
don't have a funnel that can'thappen at all.
If you apply for one job, youcan only get one offer max.
(16:24):
There's some, and I thinkthere's just, there are some
basic truths about if you areinterviewing for multiple jobs,
you seem less desperate and thatdoes attract employers in a
certain way.
If you seem really obsessed I'dlove to work here, please give
me a shot.
that never goes over well.
So there's just some basic, Ithink psychology or like playing
hard to get or.
(16:45):
in the very back of your mind,when you show up to interview
one and you have three morescheduled within the next couple
weeks, you're just going to actdifferently and more confident
and less needy.
So there, there's that side aswell.
But that unquantifiable thingthat happens and I've, you
wouldn't imagine a number ofemails I get, like I had no
offers.
For seven months and now I havefour or three and I am screwed.
(17:06):
I'm scared to death'cause Idon't know what to do.
I didn't, I don't want any ofthese jobs.
I just want a counteroffer frommy current employer and all of a
sudden, so anyway, we'll get offthat subject.
But that's the counter to thefunnel, right?
squadcaster-dj46_1_02-14-2 (17:16):
It's probably worth what is your
advice on that?
If you're, if you get threeopportunities
matthew_1_02-14-2025_101120 (17:22):
You
squadcaster-dj46_1_02-14-202 (17:22):
I.
matthew_1_02-14-2025_101120 (17:22):
'em all against each other what I
ask for, would basically moremoney or more PTO, and then I'd
figure out what job you reallywant or maybe the two
squadcaster-dj46_1_02-14- (17:30):
Yeah.
matthew_1_02-14-2025_101120 (17:30):
If you're waiting for another offer
or you want things to get fasttracked, I would say.
I just wanna make you aware, Ididn't mention this in our
process, but I have beeninterviewing for other jobs and
I've actually received anotheroffer or two other offers.
However your company is the oneI'm most interested in.
So if you feel the same wayabout me as I do you I would
love to receive an offer fromyou if possible by, Friday
(17:53):
afternoon based off my timeline,or if you just want to figure
out which offer to take.
I just start, I look how muchthey're for, and I just say, I
have two other offers.
I've been really pleased withhow in demand my skills are and
the value that's been seen bythese couple employers on how I
can contribute.
With that, I'm currently lookingat x, y, Z to x, y, Z per year.
(18:15):
My goal is to work for you.
That's where
squadcaster-dj46_1_02-14- (18:17):
Yeah.
matthew_1_02-14-2025_101120 (18:17):
is.
I'm passionate about yourculture, where your leadership
team can take this.
I'm here to help make this work,but wanted to let you know where
I'm at.
There's no right way to say itbecause it depends on, are you
talking to a hiring manager?
Are you talking to an entrylevel recruiter?
Are you talking to the businessowner?
Is it tech, is it accounting?
Those are gonna be completely, Iwould word that completely
differently for each one.
squadcaster-dj46_1_02-14- (18:36):
Yeah.
matthew_1_02-14-2025_1011 (18:37):
yeah, it's a good place to be.
It's stressful a lot of peopleit's worse than not having any
offers, but you always come outahead in that situation.
squadcaster-dj46_1_02-14- (18:45):
Yeah.
No, isn't that interesting?
we don't like no offers, butwhen you get multiple ones, it
puts us in this weird situationlike, am I gonna let these
people down?
it's Fascinating on that.
but I agree with you, it's muchbetter to have three offers than
none.
and it's interesting, one of thethings that I think people learn
is you don't wanna promote toomuch that you're unemployed.
Like you don't want to have thatopen to work thing on LinkedIn.
matthew_1_02-14-2025_101120 (19:05):
No, I agree
squadcaster-dj46_1_02-14-202 (19:06):
To be desired and to be pursued,
that's a helpful thing whenyou're looking for a role.
and that's what we're trying toget people to right?
Is that moment where they haveoptions.
Because then they can pick theone that they really want.
we named our company callings.aibecause we really want to help
people, not just get a job, butto find something that they
really are passionate about.
and honestly what you'redescribing puts people in a
(19:27):
better position to do that.
'Cause hopefully then you'repicking the one of the three
that you really want and notjust.
Desperately taking a job, whichmany of us have to do, right?
If we need the income.
But the dream is to find thatrole you really want and get it
and get compensated well, andhave the corporate culture be
(19:48):
great.
So when you go there, you enjoyit.
one of the things we sawstatistically is, on every month
there's anywhere between 10 and13 million people looking for a
job in the United Statesactively.
But the interesting statisticfor us is 96% of all.
Job holders are at leastpassively looking for their next
(20:08):
role.
People are always looking toimprove themselves.
And so that means that, there'sa lot of people who are not
looking for a job but are opento a job.
If they can be found we wouldlove to get there with
callings.ai to be a place wherepeople can be found and not just
chase and pursue.
matthew_1_02-14-2025_101120 (20:26):
I would assume you're pretty well
versed with ai with what youguys do, but just overall is
that a fair assumption?
squadcaster-dj46_1_02-14- (20:32):
Yeah.
We, so our platform is not justai.
Our feeling is that AI is a tooland a very powerful one that's
gonna change our lives.
But, it is necessary, but notsufficient for a really great
platform.
We also want it to be.
A platform that's usable, thatuses basic the SaaS technologies
(20:53):
that we're all familiar with,the CRM technologies we're all
familiar with, and AI comes inat the places that really matter
most, right?
Helping you do a better job ofsearching and finding things
that really match you, helpingyou to.
Better your personal brand andarticulate yourself better and
tell your story better.
Helping you to condense a lot ofinformation to something usable.
(21:14):
Like for example, an interview,prep report.
Helping you to go through largedatabases of people to find the
people that you really should bereaching out to for a role.
That's where AI seems to bereally powerful.
And we got into it, my partnerand I, we're old enough to have
seen several of theserevolutions before.
I'm old enough to see, even morethan I should admit, but, I was
(21:37):
around, my dad had one of thefirst PCs ever in my hometown.
So I'm that old.
But, I saw the internetrevolution in 95.
The.
Smartphone revolution, in thetwo thousands.
And, this one's gonna be biggerthan all of those, I think.
And so what we're trying to dois apply it in ways that really
(21:57):
make sense for people.
and in our case we've picked,the job hunt process and the
steps that are involved in that.
And, but we see it applicable inother areas that we're working
on, to help people.
And, so much of it is justtrying to figure the right way
to do it, and I think that'slistening to people and trying
to bring them tools that solveproblems that they have.
matthew_1_02-14-2025_101120 (22:18):
So we know the, one of the answers
is job seekers people lookingfor a role or a better role.
But overall, who is callings AIfor,
squadcaster-dj46_1_02-14-202 (22:30):
It is for people that are looking
to find their true calling.
Now that is job seeking.
But it could be more than that.
It could be career changing,right?
Or adjusting or pursuing.
One of the things that we have,it's a beta feature on the app,
is we read their resume and thenwe ask questions.
And if you're willing to gothrough the beta version of our
product and answer all thosequestions, we help generate an
(22:53):
ideal job report for you thathelps you.
We reflect back to people Whatthey're saying and what they're
thinking.
In talking to a lot of jobseekers, we have this impression
that we know what we're doing orwhere we want to go, and that
it's clear as lightning I don'tthink it always is.
A lot of times we feel it atsome level that we can't
articulate, that we want to goin a different direction in our
(23:15):
lives, in our careers, and howdo we suss that out, through the
Socratic methods, throughthinking and interacting and
bouncing ideas off, and our betafeature does that and, it allows
us to help tell their story withthem so that they can look at
it, they can adjust it, theycan, hopefully have some
revelations about, oh, that'sinteresting.
(23:37):
The way I answer all thosequestions leads to this type of
response.
This ideal job report isdifferent than I thought.
And hopefully we can bring thatto people to help them
understand where they want togo.
I think some people really knowit, but not everybody does.
matthew_1_02-14-2025_101120 (23:52):
and some people I think are working
really hard in roles they thinkis the right role for them and
working hard is good, but I,what I mean is.
Kinda exhausting themselves,trying to be good at something
that they're not meant to begood at.
And it, there's always beencareer counselors, not coaches,
I'm saying counselors, right?
A lot of people, or some peoplework with them in high school,
before ai, it's hard to knowwhat you don't know.
(24:13):
And it, it seems like whatyou're doing is the perfect way
to.
Find that match and maybe you'redoing exactly what you should be
doing.
You just, maybe it's a differentindustry or maybe just keep at
it, but apply for more jobs.
But for some people it's likeyou're trying, you're trying to
be a poet, but you should be asongwriter cause that's what
you're really good at and that'swhat comes easy for you.
For so many people that's whatends up happening, is I was
(24:35):
trying so hard to be good at Iwas trying to really so hard to
be a CPA and I was so drainedevery day.
But it turns out what I'm reallygood at is, working with people
and that's what gave me energy.
Or sometimes, a lot of timesit's the opposite, right?
I don't wanna work with people,it exhausts me.
Just gimme a, gimme an Excelspreadsheet and I'll make
anything you ask happen.
So it sounds like that's alittle bit of what you're doing
(24:56):
is helping people maybe refineand open their eyes to.
What else they can be doing andthe huge upside of discovering
those things.
squadcaster-dj46_1_02-14- (25:04):
Yeah.
No, I, you said it very well,and self discovery.
will lead to better happiness.
My dad used to say this, I lovethis expression.
If you find what you love,you'll never work another day in
your life.
matthew_1_02-14-2025_1011 (25:15):
Yeah.
squadcaster-dj46_1_02-14-202 (25:16):
he didn't write that.
I think he stole it from MarkTwain or somebody else.
but there's a lot of wisdom inthat.
Just what you said speaks a lotto me.
I've had jobs where I'm like,this is the job I always wanted,
and, I'm working my butt off.
Why am I not happy?
And you realize it's because.
You look at it from the outside,it seems like what you want, but
(25:36):
when you're inside, theexperience is totally different.
Actually people, when I was atApple, people used to call me up
all the time.
Oh my God, I just saw the newApple event.
I really wanna work there.
And I used to say to them like,you need to understand when you
watch an Apple event you'retasting the delicious sausage.
When you work at Apple, you haveto grind up pig lips to make
that sausage.
It's a different experience.
(25:58):
it can be enjoyable, but youjust need to understand that
it's different than that.
matthew_1_02-14-2025_101120 (26:03):
As far as your tools go and the
outcomes, what's some feedbackor success stories you've
received from users?
squadcaster-dj46_1_02-14- (26:11):
We're just coming outta beta so very
early.
But we've had a number of userswho've used our platform to
success.
and what they're reflecting backis what we'd hope for, right?
Which is we help them manage anunwieldy process better.
And help them be more productiveand ultimately more successful
in their pursuit.
And, one of our users he, Idon't know how he got the
(26:33):
statistic, but he said, you mademe 65% more effective.
I don't think he measured thatpersonally, but it really is
managing the whole job hunt inone place.
Waking up every day to go to oneplace for where you're at and
then helping all those stepsalong the way and helping to
define them so that you knowwhat that manufacturing process
is as you do your job.
(26:55):
And then obviously the piecesinside Which are not process
oriented.
How do you convey yourself, howdo you prepare?
And, for those, I think peopleare gonna still use multiple
resources, but having a placewhere you wake up every day and
do your work think is a goodstarting point for a job.
Hunt
matthew_1_02-14-2025_101120 (27:13):
The website is callings.ai.
Is that correct?
squadcaster-dj46_1_02- (27:17):
callings ai.
That's right.
matthew_1_02-14-2025_101120 (27:18):
And we're gonna link to that in this
episode of description, butthat's also easy to type.
I'd encourage listeners I thinkit's really cool what I've spent
time on the site.
You can sign up for free and useparts of it for free.
And then there's a paid version,which is very reasonable.
And what's interesting to me andI'd love, to hear from listeners
is how it helps you.
I think for people who are alittle disorganized, or maybe
(27:42):
you're just.
Busy with a job or family or athousand other things seems like
a really good way to haveeverything organized and not
have your brain power be wastedon that.
Put it towards interviewing ormaybe get getting yourself
right.
Exercising getting in a betterhead space for your interviews
or for your next job?
Just that getting everything inone place.
I've been there, I've believe meI've applied for plenty of jobs
(28:04):
in my life and I've had foldersin my Gmail inbox, 20, 23 job
squadcaster-dj46_1_02-14 (28:09):
Right,
matthew_1_02-14-2025_101120 (28:10):
get a reply, you gotta drag for me.
You drag it in there so that youcan go reflect back and make
sure, I've, with all the goofybusiness names these days,
right?
squadcaster-dj46_1_02-14- (28:18):
Which version of the resume did I send
Which job
matthew_1_02-14-2025_1011 (28:21):
which that, so go
squadcaster-dj46_1_02-14-202 (28:22):
I.
matthew_1_02-14-2025_101120 (28:22):
it out.
And that, it seems like that'sjust scratching the surface of
the other tools that you offer,but organization is what does
Jocko willing say that I thinkis really discipline equals
freedom, I think andorganization
squadcaster-dj46_1_02-14-2025 (28:35):
I like that.
matthew_1_02-14-2025_1011 (28:36):
Which I, I'm a big fan of.
I don't wake up at 4:00 AM likehe does, but I listen to the
cool stuff that he says, butbefore we close up here.
You've learned a lot and you'rethe, I don't know what you say,
the starting line or the frontlines of technology, AI and the
job search and careers, which isit's revolutionary and it's also
(28:56):
scary.
So with everything that you'velearned and have made available
for job seekers, I'm wonderingif you have any words of wisdom
or motivation for our listeners.
squadcaster-dj46_1_02-14-2025 (29:10):
I think the main thing that I
would convey, especially aboutAI is.
It's just another tool.
It's a very powerful tool andit's gonna be a very disruptive
tool in how our society works,how business works and more.
But those that have succeededand thrived, adopt the new tools
(29:31):
quickly and learn how to usethem and build their.
mentality in their lives aroundwhat the new tools can do to
help them be more successful.
And so I encourage yourlisteners, and I'm sure that
they're doing this, is don't runaway from it.
matthew_1_02-14-2025_1011 (29:48):
Yeah.
squadcaster-dj46_1_02-14-2 (29:48):
Lean into it.
Learn how, go.
If you haven't played aroundwith it, go to chat GBT or Clog
or one of these other tools.
Play around, learn it.
Understand, because you'lldemystify it in your mind and
then you can use it to besteffect And.
It will make you more productiveand it will not rob you of, your
(30:09):
unique essence.
It could help amplify it if youknow how to use it, right..
squadcaster-dj46_2_02-14-202 (30:14):
so I really appreciate you having
me on.
One of the things I wanted tooffer to your listeners is
they're welcome to come to theplatform and try it.
We will give'em the first monthfor free.
By the way, searching andtracking or free always for all
users, whether they pay us ornot.
The AI features, it's 29.99 amonth, and then we offer
discounts for longercommitments.
(30:35):
I'll send you that coupon and welove your users to check it out.
And there's a blue button onevery page of our site called
feedback.
We read it every day.
My, my co-founder and I, so youknow, if there are things that
you'd like to see, we'll keepworking to make it better.
matthew_2_02-14-2025_1050 (30:52):
Cool, and we'll put that code future,
Matthew will put that code righton top of the link in this
episode's description too, soyou can see it there.
Thank you so much for joiningus.
Looking forward to having youback.
We can talk more about this acouple months from now.
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