March 11, 2025 • 35 mins
Why Workplace Conflict Is Rising
- 70% say conflict at work is worse than ever.
- Remote work, poor management, and stress fuel tension.
Ace Conflict-Related Interview Questions
- Employers ask: “Tell me about a time you faced conflict?”
- Use the 4 C’s: Connection, Clarity, Curiosity, Commitment.
De-Escalate Conflict Like a Pro
- Use “Tell me more” to calm heated situations.
- Spot toxic workplaces before you accept the job.
Guest: Karen Hurt
- CEO of Let’s Grow Leaders.
- Co-author of Powerful Phrases for Dealing with Workplace Conflict.
Takeaway: Conflict is inevitable—mastering it gives you a competitive edge in interviews and at work.
Website: https://letsgrowleaders.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/karin-hurt/
https://moveupcareers.com/strategycall
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-job-interview-experience/id1538223546
https://moveupcareers.com/survey
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
matthew_1_06-21-2024_ (00:00):
Conflicts at workplaces on the rise.
Perhaps you are carefullynavigating opportunities trying
to avoid.
squadcaster-hdd0_1_06-21-202 (00:08):
to avoid
matthew_1_06-21-2024_ (00:09):
Unhealthy work environment.
It's time to dig into this so wecan successfully navigate job
interviews, avoid mistakes onconflict related questions as
many of you have experienced.
What's your take?
Where do you stand?
Are you conflict oriented or doyou know how to professionally
navigate away from that?
squadcaster-hdd0_1_06-21-2 (00:27):
away from?
matthew_1_06-21-2024_1006 (00:28):
Let's find a better place to call home
for our work.
Karen Hurt joins us today tohelp us get there.
Karen is the CEO and Founder ofLet's Grow Leaders, a global
human-centered leadershipdevelopment company known for
practical tools in training thatsticks.
Her expertise has been featuredin.
Numerous national media outlets,including the Wall Street
(00:50):
Journal, Forbes entrepreneur,fast Company, and many more.
Karen was recently named one ofInc's lists, 100 great
leadership speakers.
Congratulations, Karen.
On top of all of that, she hasco-authored several books with
her husband, David Die,including Courageous Cultures.
Winning and the new book,powerful Phrases for Dealing
(01:14):
With Workplace Conflict.
As you can tell, she's anexpert.
Welcome Karen, to the jobinterview experience.
squadcaster-hdd0_1_06-21-20 (01:20):
Oh, so delighted to be here.
Looking forward to thisconversation.
matthew_1_06-21-2024_100602 (01:23):
We all have skills, our hard skills
that we bring to the workplaceto help employers move forward.
I wanna start off by talkingabout soft skills.
What soft skills are mostvaluable in today's job market,
especially when it comes tonavigating or avoiding conflict
in the workplace?
squadcaster-hdd0_1_06-21-202 (01:39):
in the workplace?
Yeah.
When you think about job skills,There's so much focus right now
on things that computers can do,right?
And so you've got thistransition to AI and new
technologies and all this.
And in that context, there are acouple things that only humans
can do that AI cannot replace.
Are we creating that genuineconnection?
(01:59):
Are we collaborating and are wethinking of new ideas and
looking at new ways of doingthings?
Because technology, AI islooking backwards, right?
And so if you can differentiateyourself in a job search and
say, how can I bring humanity towork?
Build connection, buildcollaboration, and be
(02:20):
innovative, bring new ideas,and.
They encourage and tap into theideas of other people.
You are definitely settingyourself up for a competitive
advantage as you areinterviewing.
matthew_1_06-21-2024_10060 (02:31):
Soft skills are incredibly important
and in the hiring industry, it'sbecoming, I would say, one of
the biggest focuses.
Companies are.
Equally or even more focused onsoft skills and hard skills
because if you're great at doingsomething, but you're terrible
to get along with, you areconflict oriented.
(02:52):
You don't take feedback well,that's just not gonna work.
So we see soft skills are thisgrowing focus.
How can people self-assess are,do I have good soft skills or
don't I, what's a good way to
squadcaster-hdd0_1_06-21-202 (03:05):
to
matthew_1_06-21-202 (03:06):
self-assess and then make changes?
squadcaster-hdd0_1_06-21- (03:08):
Yeah, so the first thing I would do is
to really ident when you softskills can be very broad.
What are a couple of specificskills that you're really
curious about?
Is it your communication?
Is your collaboration, is it theway you are having difficult
conversations?
Like where do you suspect thatyou may have an opportunity or
where is the strength that youwould really like to build on
(03:30):
and be able to showcase in yourjob interview?
And one of the things we do inour leadership development
programs is encourage people togo do what we call a DIY 360 or
do it yourself 360 or alistening tour.
So identify one or two areasthat you're like, I am really
curious how I'm being perceivedin this area, and you wanna be
(03:51):
as specific as possible.
As opposed to saying, is thereanything I can do to be a better
leader?
Or is there anything I can do toimprove my communication?
Those are very broad and verydifficult for people to answer,
but if you could get superspecific, like what's one way
that I am really showing upstrong for our team?
(04:12):
What's one way that I'm reallysupportive of you as your
manager?
And what's one thing that Icould do differently to be even
more effective?
And if you can go in with that,like very specific, what's one
thing that's really working foryou in the way I'm running our
meetings and what's one thingthat I could do to really make
our meetings get better resultsin that people wanna attend and
(04:32):
ask some people with diverseperspectives.
So you, if you can ask yourboss, you can ask some
coworkers.
If you have direct reports, youcan ask those direct reports.
And what you're looking for isthe themes.
What are people sayingconsistently?
Because whether you like it ornot, that's your leadership
brand or that's your employeebrand, your personal brand.
And what I always, when I'mhearing about feedback from
(04:54):
people, one of the words I lookfor is, but what's happening
after the, but he's an amazingsalesperson.
Right.
He really does not collaboratewell with his support team.
She is such a nice collaborator.
She gets along with everyone,but she has trouble holding
people accountable.
(05:16):
And it's what comes after the,but that you really wanna pay
attention to so that you canbegin to overcome some of those
negative perceptions.
matthew_1_06-21-2024_100602 (05:25):
I like that idea of asking For
some people they think thatopens them up to be viewed in a
negative light, right?
Asking your boss, Hey, do youhave any feedback on me?
I'm working to improve I'mfocusing on my soft skills.
To me, an employee that doesthat, asking growth oriented
questions, self-improvement.
(05:46):
The fact of the matter is noneof us are perfect, right?
Especially you and me, but thepeople who try and be better,
especially when it benefits theemployer, those are incredibly
valuable people.
Because if, especially if youcan self-identify or ask for
feedback and make improvement,that shows you're open to
learning, you're open to change.
(06:06):
And when you do that, like thatsales person, it's not a great
collaborator.
If they would say, Hey.
squadcaster-hdd0_1_06-21-202 (06:10):
if they would say, Hey,
matthew_1_06-21-2024_100602 (06:11):
Do you have any feedback on me, on
my soft skills or things I cando better to make this a
healthier work environment,whatever else.
And I say, yeah, people, youdon't reply to emails, you don't
take calls, whatever it is, it'sprobably a nicer way to say
that.
And it's okay, I'm gonna try andmake those changes that can
actually do a lot for jobsecurity.
And I think also just
squadcaster-hdd0_1_06-21-2 (06:29):
just
matthew_1_06-21-2024_100602 (06:30):
if you take that to heart and make
those changes, you'll be moreeffective.
So I wouldn't shy away fromasking.
And you said the self-assessmentas well.
I think that a lot of times wejust forget to do it.
Like we forget to think aboutWhat's my pattern?
Like for, I know for me one ofmine is interrupting.
I've gotten better at it becauseof the podcast.
(06:50):
I would not be able to havethese conversations and have
great guests if I did it a lot.
If I'm out with a bunch offriends and we're excited and
we're talking, I know it's, I'ma terrible interrupter and I
work on it constantly and I'vegotten a little bit better.
But if I didn't self-assess onthat, I think I'd be a pretty
miserable person overall'cause Iwould be interrupting
constantly.
But.
If I didn't take the time tothink that through and care
(07:12):
enough to change.
nothing good would happen there.
squadcaster-hdd0_1_06-21- (07:15):
Yeah, I totally agree.
One of the things that I reallyencourage people to do in their
careers is, at the beginning ofthe year or when you get a take
on a new job, you're juststarting a new job.
Or beginning of a quarter, youpick a time that feels like the
right time.
And I did this, so I was atVerizon for 20 years before I
founded Let's Grow Leaders.
(07:36):
And I had some pretty big jobs.
I had a 2200 person sales team,a 10,000 person customer service
organization.
And I was always asking thisquestion of my bosses, what
would it take for we get to theend of this year?
And you're like, oh, wow, thatwas an extraordinary year.
What?
Is necessary in terms ofoutcomes.
(07:57):
Which of these metrics are theones that you really want me to
blow away, and what is it aboutthe way that I have showed up in
this role?
And just asking that question,first of all, it does a couple
of things.
One, you get a sense of howyou're being perceived from that
and what your strengths to buildon and opportunities.
But also if they have clearlydefined what extraordinary looks
(08:19):
like.
And then you have done thoseextraordinary things.
When it is time to get therating, you're like you defined
extraordinary.
If they don't give you therating you want you defined
extraordinary.
I did extraordinary.
why is this a meets, right?
matthew_1_06-21-2024_10060 (08:34):
This next question is an incredibly
important interview question.
It's becoming more common, andyou can answer this the right
way, but if you're not mature,it's only gonna get you so far.
But I think we have to coverthis right away.
Job seekers worry about this, orsome of'em don't even see it
coming an interview questiontell me about a time you faced
conflict at work, or, Can youtell me about a situation you
(08:59):
were in where you hadconflicting views with a peer?
How did you resolve that?
Can you share a framework forhow to approach or structure an
appropriate professionalresponse that showcases conflict
resolution skills?
squadcaster-hdd0_1_06-2 (09:14):
skills.
Yeah, so when you're asked thatquestion, the first thing that I
would do is.
Think about a conflict that youhad that had a positive outcome,
right?
Because you are gonna, getnervous in a job interview and
you get squirreled around andthen you're like and I never did
resolve that.
And the guy was just a complete,a-hole, right?
That's not how you wanna endthis.
Anytime you're doing, and I'msure you talk about this all the
(09:35):
time, is think about thesituation.
That you wanna showcase And theend of the story that it was a
positive thing and I hadsomething to do with that.
So what I would do is thinkabout a conflict that you had in
the past that actually you feelreally good about how you
contributed to a better,successful outcome.
And then in our book, powerfulPhrases for Dealing with
Workplace Conflict, we talkabout four dimensions of
(09:57):
productive conflict.
And so I would think about howdid those dimensions play in.
Are we connected as human beingsis one of the dimensions.
So how did, in that conflict,did you create a human
connection?
Did you show up a little morevulnerable?
Did you really show upinterested in the other human
being?
Did you really want to make aconnection and create common
(10:18):
ground?
So connection and then clarity.
Most conflict comes from anexpectation violation of some
sort or another.
Expect you to do this, you didthat.
So when you think about whatmade this conflict resolved.
Was there something that you didor that you did collectively to
align on a shared vision ofsuccess?
And because if you can pull in astory No, I'm not telling you to
(10:41):
make stuff up, but if youactually did this right, how did
we align a shared vision ofsuccess?
I would wanna hire somebodyanytime, who is one of those
visionary people who can getpeople aligned.
So connection, clarity.
The next is curiosity.
And if I were interviewingsomeone and asking about the
conflict, I would be veryinterested.
Did they go in only stuck ontheir point of view, or did they
(11:03):
show up?
Genuinely Curious aboutalternatives?
And other people's perspectivesand looking for a different way
to do this?
And then the last one iscommitment.
How do you move a conflict to ashared agreement?
And if you're struggling to saywe did have a conflict and it
got better, but I don't evenreally know what we did.
I would start with those fourdimensions, connection, clarity,
(11:23):
curiosity, commitment, and pullout your stories from there.
And then you could say, I'veactually studied a bit about
conflict and I know there's acouple of dimensions that really
matter.
And I'll tell you the ones thatreally worked here for me is we
really showed up curious, andthen we moved towards
commitment.
And you're like they're saying,wow, this person really knows
what they're talking about.
and then of course, in aconflict conversation, you wanna
(11:43):
use all the other.
Skills you've been talking abouton your other podcast episodes,
right?
That you know you wanna takeownership.
You wanna show it withconfidence and humility, but not
oh, this was all me, if therewere a bunch of other people who
also collaborated.
You wanna bring some of that intoo so that you're showing up as
a team player.
matthew_1_06-21-2024_1006 (12:01):
Let's take a step back before the
question, and actually if youcould help us with some phrasing
or some strategy within theworkplace.
I have listeners that have, andpeople, I know that they are not
conflict oriented at all, andwhen something comes up outta
nowhere, someone's really hotand they're like a deer in the
(12:21):
headlights.
Maybe someone comes up and says,Hey, I don't want you talking to
people on my team so much, orthe emails you're sending with
me and the CEO, This is superannoying.
Like you're, stop doing whateveryou're doing.
Whatever might be someone who'sreally hot in the workplace.
When I say hot, coming into youroffice.
They're at a hundred out of ahundred.
You're at like one out of ahundred.
(12:41):
You're just doing your thing.
When that happens, what are someeffective ways, especially.
For those of us that don't havethe right response right away.
Like that perfect worded answerthat comes to you two days later
doesn't come up right away.
What's a mature way to helpdiffuse the situation and maybe
understand it a little bitbetter?
Do you have any phrasing orsuggestions for a situation like
(13:03):
that?
squadcaster-hdd0_1_06-21- (13:03):
Yeah, so you're talking about
deescalating an emotionalconversation.
So somebody comes in and theyare all fired up.
One of the best phrases you canuse is, tell me more.
And that seems socounterintuitive'cause you don't
actually want to hear morebecause they're already
screaming at you.
But when people are loud, eitherthey're loud emotionally,
(13:23):
they're actually loud, they'reusing loud words that start with
the letter F, right?
That loudness is a signal that Idon't feel like I'm being heard.
And so if you can very calmly.
Say, gosh, can you tell me somemore about that?
And sincerely, they're gonnacalm down because now they don't
(13:44):
have to scream to be heard'causeyou've just invited them to tell
you more.
Another is to call the emotionout.
I've noticed that your voice isreally elevated.
I've noticed that you used theFBO three times in this first
paragraph since you've walkedinto my office.
And I'm curious what's going onfor you?
So you're creating some clarity,but then you're really showing
(14:05):
up curious.
And the other is you can do areflect to connect on the
emotional level.
It sounds to me like you'rereally frustrated about this.
Do I have that right?
Or it sounds to me like you'rereally frustrated what's going
on?
How can I be most helpful here?
And anything that helps createthat connection of being seen.
(14:26):
But you have the right to, if isa toxic, if there's bullying or
toxic, behavior, if they'retreating you in a way that you
do not wanna be treated.
You can also create someclarity.
Hey, I've noticed that you'rescreaming at me and you're
pounding your fist on my desk.
I can't, that's a hard note.
this is not how we're gonnacommunicate.
So can we figure out a way thatwe can calm down?
(14:49):
Maybe let's have thisconversation in 10 minutes, but
let's have this as twoprofessional human beings in
this conversation and ask forwhat you need.
'cause you don't have totolerate that escalated ness
either.
matthew_1_06-21-2024_100602 (15:02):
I really like that.
Help me more.
Part two, and obviously it's notone size fits all.
It probably depends and you havesome different tools there, but
I can see a lot of times peopleare just mad'cause they don't
like you or they're mad'causelike they found something to be
mad about.
And that re like when you'reasked that, it's like you have
to dig deeper for a biggerreason.
So it's I might be mad becausean email you sent.
squadcaster-hdd0_1_06-21-20 (15:25):
you sent
matthew_1_06-21-2024_100602 (15:26):
And you kinda say that, right?
This email you sent is bs, blah,blah, blah, blah, blah.
It's tell me more.
Where it's what else?
What else is there?
Really, I'm just mad and I canthink that moment maybe I would
hope would bring some clarity tothe person who's the offender
and say right deescalate.
this really bothered me becauseit made me look bad or you look
good or didn't, It didn'temphasize my work enough in the
(15:48):
situation, but I think
squadcaster-hdd0_1_06-21-20 (15:49):
but I think
matthew_1_06-21-2024_100 (15:50):
You're asking that person to almost
create a defense in a verynon-offensive way.
Can you tell me what about thisitself makes you mad?
Emails don't make you mad.
We all talk to each other.
That obviously wouldn't make youmad.
So what is it?
Can you tell me more?
And I think sometimes peoplethen they think through it and
they're like, oh, I guess that'sjust kind of it.
(16:12):
So that's a, I really like thatphrasing.
squadcaster-hdd0_1_06-21- (16:15):
Yeah.
And another is, what would asuccessful outcome do for you?
So if somebody's really upsetabout something and you, so
you're pulling them towardssolution, but you're not just
saying what a success look like,but what is it, what is their
hidden motivation like?
A successful outcome would makemy boss respect me more
successful outcome would meanthat I don't have to work until
eight o'clock at night every dayon this project.
(16:37):
So there's you're getting aconversation at a deeper
connected level with that.
matthew_1_06-21-2024_10060 (16:42):
Your research shows that workplace
conflict is on the rise.
Why do you think that is?
squadcaster-hdd0_1_06-21-2 (16:48):
Yeah we did the World Workplace
Conflict and CollaborationSurvey.
It was 5,000 people in 45countries to ask a number of
questions, and one was, isconflict getting worse?
And 70% said that conflict isthe same, worse, or
significantly worse than it was.
Just a couple of years ago, andwhen we dug underneath of that
(17:08):
and felt, to ask what was reallygoing on, a lot of it is poor
management practices.
and then before you get down onyour managers, it is way harder
to be a manager now than it wasbefore because it's so much more
complicated.
So much remote work.
We've got big changes in newtechnologies.
All these conflict cocktails allhappening at the same time.
Another said, post pandemicstress and anxiety.
(17:31):
There's a lot of that going on.
And so a conflict that might nothave been a big deal in the past
if you were already overwhelmed,stressed, anxious, feeling
disconnected for choosing yourbubble over the last couple of
years, and now you're reenteringit, but you're still working
remotely.
And all of that has differentkinds of impacts for people.
So knowing that all that isgoing on is also creating
(17:53):
anxiety and another is just thislack of shared expectations in
this new world of work.
So we are seeing a whole breedof conflict cocktails as we call
them, about things that like Iexpect that we're having a
one-on-one.
I expect you to put your camerason Now.
We've never talked about that,but you turn out your camera off
(18:14):
and I've got like, why are youdisrespecting me?
Why don't you even care enoughto put your camera on?
and I'm thinking we know eachother pretty well that I've had
my camera on all day with ourcustomers.
This is the one moment that Ican turn my camera off and eat
my sandwich while we have ourone-on-one.
And all that is we haven'treached alignment on shared
expectations, and then we'remaking assumptions work from
(18:34):
home policy or work fromanywhere.
Policy actual example of acompany had a work from anywhere
policy.
That is fine.
You can work anywhere as long asyou're getting your work done.
On LinkedIn, this person said,look, our company has this
wonderful work from anywherepolicy.
Here I am at the petting zoo,literally holding the Zoom call
(18:55):
and a laptop on one petting apony on the other hand, writing
it on LinkedIn, and thenresponding to everybody's
comments all day long.
That's really not the intent ofthe work from anywhere policy.
And the coworkers were gettingticked off.
They're like, he's notresponding to my email in three
days, but there he is respondingto everybody on the LinkedIn new
(19:15):
conflicts.
So I think that, part of that isequipping not just managers, but
everyone to how do we clarifyexpectations?
How do we reach sharedagreements?
How do we communicateconsistently so we have better
collaboration?
matthew_1_06-21-2024_100602 (19:31):
You talk quite a bit about remote
work and many interviews thesedays are virtual, and then a lot
of times you get the job andmaybe it's fully remote, maybe
it's hybrid, but I've seen a lotof the things that you said.
There's a breakdown incommunications.
It's like a whole new world ofwork, right?
Like the camera thing.
Some people are just shy, or tobe honest, they wanna wear their
(19:53):
comfy t-shirt and so they don'twanna turn the camera on.
squadcaster-hdd0_1_06-21- (19:55):
turn.
matthew_1_06-21-2024_10060 (19:57):
when it comes to conflict with these
things, or even non-virtual workrelated conflicts that happen,
how can job seekers effectivelymanage conflict when they're in
a workplace environment?
And typically this would be asit down with somebody, right?
Or just a quick pop in theoffice or clarify something in
(20:18):
the office setting.
squadcaster-hdd0_1_06-21-20 (20:19):
the office setting.
matthew_1_06-21-2024_100602 (20:20):
How do we do that in a virtual
world?
squadcaster-hdd0_1_06-2 (20:22):
virtual world?
Yeah, so it's very similar.
So the conversations are thesame whether you're virtual or
in person, right?
But I think we skip over some ofthese when we're, we tend to it.
It can be something thathappens.
So for example, if you werewalking into a conference room
with people, you would startgenerally with some level of
(20:44):
connections.
Hey, you know how's it going?
Oh, how was your weekend?
But sometimes we just pop into ateam meeting and bam, we're off
to the races and we start witha, exactly, just jump right into
the work and there's not thathuman connection or, the same
thing at the end of the meeting.
And so creating very deliberateways for people to think about
(21:05):
and being deliberate aboutcommunication.
We, in one of our trainingprograms where we're talking
about connection.
One of the things we do, just togive this as an example, is we,
before we even start, we'relike, okay, everybody here.
Okay, great.
First thing we're gonna do iswe're gonna put you in some
breakout rooms with three otherpeople, and you're gonna answer
one of these two questions.
You get to choose what is asource of strength inspiration
(21:29):
and strength for you right now,either personally or
professionally, or what is onething that you were really proud
of over the last six months.
Bam.
Put'em in the rooms, right?
Cold open into that.
10 minutes later, come back,everybody looks different.
When they come back, they'relaughing, they're smiling.
And then the point is that took10 minutes and it, so it doesn't
(21:53):
take long to create that humanconnection.
And then the, another thing thatmanagers can do, and we do this
in every training program werun, we are this meeting, we are
going to end this training ontime.
And we are going to stay behindtill everyone is gone.
So just like we, if we were in aconference room together, if you
have something that you wannatalk about in a more intimate
(22:13):
way, just hang back.
And, because that's what wefound was missing when we
transitioned to some of thisvirtual training.
But managers can do the samething and you may have somebody
say, Hey, even if three peoplehang back.
And you're like, great.
What I'm gonna do now is I'llset up, and then I'm gonna give
you a call and we're gonna dothat.
So you have that sort of aftereffect.
(22:34):
So that connection is one bigone and then the others really
if expectations aren't clear,you don't have to wait for your
manager to clarify, ask forclarification.
Let me just check forunderstanding when you say this
report Needs to be done soon.
Is that like soon by noon or isthat soon?
By next Wednesday.
And to create that clarity.
matthew_1_06-21-2024_1006 (22:54):
Yeah, asap, right?
Everything is asap.
squadcaster-hdd0_1_06-21- (22:57):
Asap, right?
Everything is asap.
matthew_1_06-21-2024_10060 (23:00):
Have you identified any red flags for
of companies?
That might have a bad culture ofconflict, high conflict, high
stress culture, any red flagsthat job seekers could kinda get
on their radar and look out forwhen they are interviewing,
applying, researching.
squadcaster-hdd0_1_06-21-20 (23:18):
the first thing I would do is to
ask, they may ask you about aconflict scenario that you've
had, but you can also ask, whatis the culture like here?
when people have differentpoints of view and
disagreements.
how does that show up?
How do they talk about things.
Is it acceptable to disagreewith your boss?
ask those kinds of questions ifthat stuff is really important
to you.
(23:38):
If it is important for you towork in a highly collaborative
environment.
Say, it's really important forme to work in a highly
collaborative environment.
I wanna really show up as a teamplayer.
What are some of the things thatyou do here to make that work
well?
And what are some of the biggestchallenges that you see for
people getting along?
one of the things that we see iswe work with a lot of really
(23:59):
fast growing companies in manyof those cases, the
collaboration worked super wellwhen they were in startup mode.
now that they've grown, maybe ahundred people, there is a level
of frustration of, oh, we usedto just be able to pull
everybody in a room and now Igotta go through my boss So if
there's something that ischanging that you've noticed
about the company, you couldalso say that.
(24:20):
See, I have noticed that youguys have moved from 40 to 400
people in the last year.
I'm really curious, how's thatshowing up for your culture?
That's a wise question to askand see what they say.
matthew_1_06-21-2024_100602 (24:34):
My observation has been that a lot
of companies when it comes toimproving, growing.
Just like even I mentionedearlier, how can I improve here?
What are some soft skills I canimprove on?
A lot of times we focus on thenegative, and so the people who
are conflict oriented.
Start fights.
They might be the ones that arepointed towards tools to help
(24:55):
them get better.
In my opinion, those tools aremaybe even more empowering for
people who are the opposite andare scared to death of conflict
and are bullied.
Those are the people who I thinkcan, even from you saying, tell
me more, things like that, thatcan be even more empowering for
them, especially as
squadcaster-hdd0_1_06-21-20 (25:12):
for them, especially
matthew_1_06-21-2024_10060 (25:13):
they are the innocent party.
But they might not know how todeal with that and they just.
squadcaster-hdd0_1_06-21-2 (25:18):
deal with that, and they
matthew_1_06-21-2024_1006 (25:19):
Often get walked over or beat up in
these situations by theoverpowering, I'll just use the
word, workplace kind of bulliesthat are louder or more
aggressive or more assertive.
So for listeners, my hope isthat especially all people who
are conflict oriented, get withit and get better, but those who
seem like they're on thereceiving end, both parties,
(25:41):
what are resources or tools thatyou recommend for.
Professionals, whether they'rejob seekers currently employed
or outta college, anywhere intheir career, what are some good
tools for them to either improvethemselves or be more empowered
in dealing with people who bringconflict to the workplace?
squadcaster-hdd0_1_06 (26:00):
conflicts to the workplace?
our book is.
Designed in a couple of ways.
It introduces the fourdimensions of a productive
conflict, which I talked about,but then you go to the table of
contents and you just can say,am I in acute conflict
emergency?
Is somebody bullying me?
Is somebody gossiping?
Am I dealing with a matrixorganization where expectations
aren't clear?
My feeling invisible is my bossnot making a decision.
(26:22):
Go to the table, contents, go tothe chapter, and we give you a
way to approach these andoptions, right?
So you can't script everyconflict.
But here, start with connection,then move to curiosity now com
Commitment and it gives you, wehave over 300 powerful phrases.
Of course that is one.
The other is Thomas Kilmanassessment is a conflict
(26:43):
assessment and actually workedwith Ralph Kilman when we were
doing research for our book, andI asked him if we're allowed to
call him the grandfather ofconflict.
And because, he's been at this along time.
And he said, yes, he's proud tobe the grandfather of conflict,
but what he really talks aboutin addition to this assessment,
which it's called the TKI, andyou can think about your
(27:04):
conflict styles and the conflictstyles of other people and how
can you work with acrossdifferent kinds of styles.
Are you collaborating?
Are you competing right?
And to be aware of what'shappening from a dynamic.
But his more advanced work talksabout are there situations that
are structural?
(27:24):
Are you trying to solve ainterpersonal challenge with a
structural problem?
and so if there's structuralproblems, then don't get caught
up in the interpersonal.
Let's work on trying to say, bereal clear.
Hey, there's a structure herethat is making this hard for us.
This isn't personal, but how arewe gonna work together in this
structure?
It was fascinating.
(27:45):
last night we were on aconversation with a guy who runs
training organization inMalaysia, and he was asking how
we could use our synergy stackcards, which are habit cards
around these dimensions ofcollaboration for a really
serious situation they had.
the bottom line is you had twoteams.
They were competing.
For compensation.
(28:05):
they were internal, but theywere competing in a sales
organization for the samecustomers.
And it was creating a radicalamount of conflict.
Just telling people that youshould be nice and get to know
each other as human beings, justgoing bowling with them is not
gonna solve that problem.
You've got to talk about what isactually happening and work to
create collaborative solutions.
(28:27):
Because one of the bosses wasjust saying.
You just gotta do for thegreater good of the company.
When you're compensating peopleon commission that's not
realistic, right?
So you need to be able to say,okay, this is what it is.
We're not gonna be able tochange it.
So how can we collaborate to geta, what does success look like
for you in this scenario?
Kinds of conversations.
matthew_1_06-21-2024_100602 (28:47):
I am super embarrassed.
I'm so glad I didn't saysomething out loud.
I was gonna ask if your new bookhas phrasing or sentences to
help with conflict resolutionand then the.
Title of Karen's book isPowerful Phrases for Dealing
With Workplace Conflict.
My huge preference is I like tolearn how, but it's also for me,
(29:08):
it's like show me how, tell me,like gimme some actual wording
that I can use and incorporate.
So your newest book is PowerfulPhrases for Dealing With
Workplace Conflict, and I thinkit's a safe assumption that you
have some example phrases inthere.
Is that right?
For listeners and readers.
squadcaster-hdd0_1_06-21-20 (29:25):
300 plus Powerful
matthew_1_06-21-2024_100602 (29:27):
I love that.
When is that book released?
squadcaster-hdd0_1_06-21-2 (29:29):
It's available everywhere in
paperback audio Kindle.
matthew_1_06-21-2024_100602 (29:34):
We will link to that in this
episode's description.
How can listeners connect withyou or your organization to
learn beyond just your new bookthat you just released?
squadcaster-hdd0_1_06-21-20 (29:44):
new book that you just wrote.
Yeah, so the our company'scalled Let's Grow Leaders and on
LinkedIn.
I'm Karen with an I Hurt andwould love to connect.
Every week we, if you wannasubscribe to our blog, every
week we put out an article, apodcast and asking for a friend
video series.
matthew_1_06-21-2024_100602 (30:03):
I'm not an expert in this field at
all, Karen is, but here's myadvice to listeners.
If you are the person Idescribed where you seem to be
on the receiving end of thismore than the offending end of
this,
squadcaster-hdd0_1_06-21-20 (30:18):
end of
matthew_1_06-21-2024_10 (30:19):
there's not like a, there's no right
time to start learning about it,learning about this after
something bad happens.
Puts you kinda on your backfoot.
So I think adopting this andlike a book like this, starting
to learn how to deal with this,it will happen.
And so being ahead of the curve,not being so reactive, but
proactive, unfortunately I thinkpeople are losing touch with
(30:43):
some of their just good manners.
And this is showing up in theworkplace.
squadcaster-hdd0_1_06-21-202 (30:47):
up in the
matthew_1_06-21-2024_10 (30:48):
Karen's research is showing, conflict is
on the rise.
So a tool like this.
will help you in your job searchas you even learning how to
interact during an interview ifthings get a little tense, if
people are rude or late, butoverall, for job sustainability,
for dealing with that.
It seems like every workplacehas at least one person.
Be proactive And get ahead ofthis.
(31:10):
And I say that because it'll putyou in a better place.
I think you will be morecomfortable.
I don't like workplace bulliesor rude people or anything like
that, but they exist.
It's just a fact of life.
It seems like they aremultiplying, that's where tools
like this really help you whensomething bad happens and it
could escalate at work becauseyou just don't know quite what
(31:31):
to say or how to deal with it.
squadcaster-hdd0_1_06-21-20 (31:32):
say or how to deal
matthew_1_06-21-2024_1006 (31:33):
These tools help you.
I think with job sustainability,being able to navigate things
and even hopefully get alongwith those people who don't have
these same tools and willinteract with you at one point
or another
squadcaster-hdd0_1_06-21-2 (31:45):
with you at one point or another.
Very well said.
matthew_1_06-21-2024_100 (31:48):
before we go.
Would you share any finalthoughts, words of encouragement
or motivation that you mighthave for our listeners as they
absorb this information?
Check out your resources andmove forward in their job search
and career.
squadcaster-hdd0_1_06-21- (32:02):
Yeah.
The very first thing I would sayis the most important
conversation, the most importantpowerful phrase, or dealing with
workplace conflict are theconversations that you have with
yourself.
It's, often so easy to say,they'll never understand they're
not gonna care about it anyway.
And so you don't give the otherperson the benefit of the doubt
to have the conversation.
So here are three questions toask.
(32:24):
If you have a conflictconversation that you need to
have, but you're maybe avoidingit, why does what you have to
say matter?
Why is what you have to sayimportant?
And if you can't really come upwith it, then maybe you just let
it go.
But if you've got somethingimportant, why does it matter?
What is at stake?
If you stay silent?
What is at stake for yourrelationship with that person?
(32:44):
What is at stake for theoutcomes?
What is stake for your values?
What is at stake for your mentalhealth?
And then imagine that you've hadthe conversation and at least
you've been Maybe it didn't goexactly how you wanted, but you
feel like you've genuinely beenheard.
How do you feel?
And when we ask that question inour training programs, it's
(33:04):
always like we are chatting howyou feel heard relief.
and that relief is what we wantfor you.
We want you to feel calm, tofeel relieved, to feel less
stressed, to feel heard.
And so that is my hope.
And if you are dealing with abad boss.
be the courageous leader you'dwant your boss to be.
Conflicts at workplaces on the rise.
Perhaps you are carefullynavigating opportunities trying
to avoid.
squadcaster-hdd0_1_06-21-202 (00:08):
to avoid
matthew_1_06-21-2024_ (00:09):
Unhealthy work environment.
It's time to dig into this so wecan successfully navigate job
interviews, avoid mistakes onconflict related questions as
many of you have experienced.
What's your take?
Where do you stand?
Are you conflict oriented or doyou know how to professionally
navigate away from that?
squadcaster-hdd0_1_06-21-2 (00:27):
away from?
matthew_1_06-21-2024_1006 (00:28):
Let's find a better place to call home
for our work.
Karen Hurt joins us today tohelp us get there.
Karen is the CEO and Founder ofLet's Grow Leaders, a global
human-centered leadershipdevelopment company known for
practical tools in training thatsticks.
Her expertise has been featuredin.
Numerous national media outlets,including the Wall Street
(00:50):
Journal, Forbes entrepreneur,fast Company, and many more.
Karen was recently named one ofInc's lists, 100 great
leadership speakers.
Congratulations, Karen.
On top of all of that, she hasco-authored several books with
her husband, David Die,including Courageous Cultures.
Winning and the new book,powerful Phrases for Dealing
(01:14):
With Workplace Conflict.
As you can tell, she's anexpert.
Welcome Karen, to the jobinterview experience.
squadcaster-hdd0_1_06-21-20 (01:20):
Oh, so delighted to be here.
Looking forward to thisconversation.
matthew_1_06-21-2024_100602 (01:23):
We all have skills, our hard skills
that we bring to the workplaceto help employers move forward.
I wanna start off by talkingabout soft skills.
What soft skills are mostvaluable in today's job market,
especially when it comes tonavigating or avoiding conflict
in the workplace?
squadcaster-hdd0_1_06-21-202 (01:39):
in the workplace?
Yeah.
When you think about job skills,There's so much focus right now
on things that computers can do,right?
And so you've got thistransition to AI and new
technologies and all this.
And in that context, there are acouple things that only humans
can do that AI cannot replace.
Are we creating that genuineconnection?
(01:59):
Are we collaborating and are wethinking of new ideas and
looking at new ways of doingthings?
Because technology, AI islooking backwards, right?
And so if you can differentiateyourself in a job search and
say, how can I bring humanity towork?
Build connection, buildcollaboration, and be
(02:20):
innovative, bring new ideas,and.
They encourage and tap into theideas of other people.
You are definitely settingyourself up for a competitive
advantage as you areinterviewing.
matthew_1_06-21-2024_10060 (02:31):
Soft skills are incredibly important
and in the hiring industry, it'sbecoming, I would say, one of
the biggest focuses.
Companies are.
Equally or even more focused onsoft skills and hard skills
because if you're great at doingsomething, but you're terrible
to get along with, you areconflict oriented.
(02:52):
You don't take feedback well,that's just not gonna work.
So we see soft skills are thisgrowing focus.
How can people self-assess are,do I have good soft skills or
don't I, what's a good way to
squadcaster-hdd0_1_06-21-202 (03:05):
to
matthew_1_06-21-202 (03:06):
self-assess and then make changes?
squadcaster-hdd0_1_06-21- (03:08):
Yeah, so the first thing I would do is
to really ident when you softskills can be very broad.
What are a couple of specificskills that you're really
curious about?
Is it your communication?
Is your collaboration, is it theway you are having difficult
conversations?
Like where do you suspect thatyou may have an opportunity or
where is the strength that youwould really like to build on
(03:30):
and be able to showcase in yourjob interview?
And one of the things we do inour leadership development
programs is encourage people togo do what we call a DIY 360 or
do it yourself 360 or alistening tour.
So identify one or two areasthat you're like, I am really
curious how I'm being perceivedin this area, and you wanna be
(03:51):
as specific as possible.
As opposed to saying, is thereanything I can do to be a better
leader?
Or is there anything I can do toimprove my communication?
Those are very broad and verydifficult for people to answer,
but if you could get superspecific, like what's one way
that I am really showing upstrong for our team?
(04:12):
What's one way that I'm reallysupportive of you as your
manager?
And what's one thing that Icould do differently to be even
more effective?
And if you can go in with that,like very specific, what's one
thing that's really working foryou in the way I'm running our
meetings and what's one thingthat I could do to really make
our meetings get better resultsin that people wanna attend and
(04:32):
ask some people with diverseperspectives.
So you, if you can ask yourboss, you can ask some
coworkers.
If you have direct reports, youcan ask those direct reports.
And what you're looking for isthe themes.
What are people sayingconsistently?
Because whether you like it ornot, that's your leadership
brand or that's your employeebrand, your personal brand.
And what I always, when I'mhearing about feedback from
(04:54):
people, one of the words I lookfor is, but what's happening
after the, but he's an amazingsalesperson.
Right.
He really does not collaboratewell with his support team.
She is such a nice collaborator.
She gets along with everyone,but she has trouble holding
people accountable.
(05:16):
And it's what comes after the,but that you really wanna pay
attention to so that you canbegin to overcome some of those
negative perceptions.
matthew_1_06-21-2024_100602 (05:25):
I like that idea of asking For
some people they think thatopens them up to be viewed in a
negative light, right?
Asking your boss, Hey, do youhave any feedback on me?
I'm working to improve I'mfocusing on my soft skills.
To me, an employee that doesthat, asking growth oriented
questions, self-improvement.
(05:46):
The fact of the matter is noneof us are perfect, right?
Especially you and me, but thepeople who try and be better,
especially when it benefits theemployer, those are incredibly
valuable people.
Because if, especially if youcan self-identify or ask for
feedback and make improvement,that shows you're open to
learning, you're open to change.
(06:06):
And when you do that, like thatsales person, it's not a great
collaborator.
If they would say, Hey.
squadcaster-hdd0_1_06-21-202 (06:10):
if they would say, Hey,
matthew_1_06-21-2024_100602 (06:11):
Do you have any feedback on me, on
my soft skills or things I cando better to make this a
healthier work environment,whatever else.
And I say, yeah, people, youdon't reply to emails, you don't
take calls, whatever it is, it'sprobably a nicer way to say
that.
And it's okay, I'm gonna try andmake those changes that can
actually do a lot for jobsecurity.
And I think also just
squadcaster-hdd0_1_06-21-2 (06:29):
just
matthew_1_06-21-2024_100602 (06:30):
if you take that to heart and make
those changes, you'll be moreeffective.
So I wouldn't shy away fromasking.
And you said the self-assessmentas well.
I think that a lot of times wejust forget to do it.
Like we forget to think aboutWhat's my pattern?
Like for, I know for me one ofmine is interrupting.
I've gotten better at it becauseof the podcast.
(06:50):
I would not be able to havethese conversations and have
great guests if I did it a lot.
If I'm out with a bunch offriends and we're excited and
we're talking, I know it's, I'ma terrible interrupter and I
work on it constantly and I'vegotten a little bit better.
But if I didn't self-assess onthat, I think I'd be a pretty
miserable person overall'cause Iwould be interrupting
constantly.
But.
If I didn't take the time tothink that through and care
(07:12):
enough to change.
nothing good would happen there.
squadcaster-hdd0_1_06-21- (07:15):
Yeah, I totally agree.
One of the things that I reallyencourage people to do in their
careers is, at the beginning ofthe year or when you get a take
on a new job, you're juststarting a new job.
Or beginning of a quarter, youpick a time that feels like the
right time.
And I did this, so I was atVerizon for 20 years before I
founded Let's Grow Leaders.
(07:36):
And I had some pretty big jobs.
I had a 2200 person sales team,a 10,000 person customer service
organization.
And I was always asking thisquestion of my bosses, what
would it take for we get to theend of this year?
And you're like, oh, wow, thatwas an extraordinary year.
What?
Is necessary in terms ofoutcomes.
(07:57):
Which of these metrics are theones that you really want me to
blow away, and what is it aboutthe way that I have showed up in
this role?
And just asking that question,first of all, it does a couple
of things.
One, you get a sense of howyou're being perceived from that
and what your strengths to buildon and opportunities.
But also if they have clearlydefined what extraordinary looks
(08:19):
like.
And then you have done thoseextraordinary things.
When it is time to get therating, you're like you defined
extraordinary.
If they don't give you therating you want you defined
extraordinary.
I did extraordinary.
why is this a meets, right?
matthew_1_06-21-2024_10060 (08:34):
This next question is an incredibly
important interview question.
It's becoming more common, andyou can answer this the right
way, but if you're not mature,it's only gonna get you so far.
But I think we have to coverthis right away.
Job seekers worry about this, orsome of'em don't even see it
coming an interview questiontell me about a time you faced
conflict at work, or, Can youtell me about a situation you
(08:59):
were in where you hadconflicting views with a peer?
How did you resolve that?
Can you share a framework forhow to approach or structure an
appropriate professionalresponse that showcases conflict
resolution skills?
squadcaster-hdd0_1_06-2 (09:14):
skills.
Yeah, so when you're asked thatquestion, the first thing that I
would do is.
Think about a conflict that youhad that had a positive outcome,
right?
Because you are gonna, getnervous in a job interview and
you get squirreled around andthen you're like and I never did
resolve that.
And the guy was just a complete,a-hole, right?
That's not how you wanna endthis.
Anytime you're doing, and I'msure you talk about this all the
(09:35):
time, is think about thesituation.
That you wanna showcase And theend of the story that it was a
positive thing and I hadsomething to do with that.
So what I would do is thinkabout a conflict that you had in
the past that actually you feelreally good about how you
contributed to a better,successful outcome.
And then in our book, powerfulPhrases for Dealing with
Workplace Conflict, we talkabout four dimensions of
(09:57):
productive conflict.
And so I would think about howdid those dimensions play in.
Are we connected as human beingsis one of the dimensions.
So how did, in that conflict,did you create a human
connection?
Did you show up a little morevulnerable?
Did you really show upinterested in the other human
being?
Did you really want to make aconnection and create common
(10:18):
ground?
So connection and then clarity.
Most conflict comes from anexpectation violation of some
sort or another.
Expect you to do this, you didthat.
So when you think about whatmade this conflict resolved.
Was there something that you didor that you did collectively to
align on a shared vision ofsuccess?
And because if you can pull in astory No, I'm not telling you to
(10:41):
make stuff up, but if youactually did this right, how did
we align a shared vision ofsuccess?
I would wanna hire somebodyanytime, who is one of those
visionary people who can getpeople aligned.
So connection, clarity.
The next is curiosity.
And if I were interviewingsomeone and asking about the
conflict, I would be veryinterested.
Did they go in only stuck ontheir point of view, or did they
(11:03):
show up?
Genuinely Curious aboutalternatives?
And other people's perspectivesand looking for a different way
to do this?
And then the last one iscommitment.
How do you move a conflict to ashared agreement?
And if you're struggling to saywe did have a conflict and it
got better, but I don't evenreally know what we did.
I would start with those fourdimensions, connection, clarity,
(11:23):
curiosity, commitment, and pullout your stories from there.
And then you could say, I'veactually studied a bit about
conflict and I know there's acouple of dimensions that really
matter.
And I'll tell you the ones thatreally worked here for me is we
really showed up curious, andthen we moved towards
commitment.
And you're like they're saying,wow, this person really knows
what they're talking about.
and then of course, in aconflict conversation, you wanna
(11:43):
use all the other.
Skills you've been talking abouton your other podcast episodes,
right?
That you know you wanna takeownership.
You wanna show it withconfidence and humility, but not
oh, this was all me, if therewere a bunch of other people who
also collaborated.
You wanna bring some of that intoo so that you're showing up as
a team player.
matthew_1_06-21-2024_1006 (12:01):
Let's take a step back before the
question, and actually if youcould help us with some phrasing
or some strategy within theworkplace.
I have listeners that have, andpeople, I know that they are not
conflict oriented at all, andwhen something comes up outta
nowhere, someone's really hotand they're like a deer in the
(12:21):
headlights.
Maybe someone comes up and says,Hey, I don't want you talking to
people on my team so much, orthe emails you're sending with
me and the CEO, This is superannoying.
Like you're, stop doing whateveryou're doing.
Whatever might be someone who'sreally hot in the workplace.
When I say hot, coming into youroffice.
They're at a hundred out of ahundred.
You're at like one out of ahundred.
(12:41):
You're just doing your thing.
When that happens, what are someeffective ways, especially.
For those of us that don't havethe right response right away.
Like that perfect worded answerthat comes to you two days later
doesn't come up right away.
What's a mature way to helpdiffuse the situation and maybe
understand it a little bitbetter?
Do you have any phrasing orsuggestions for a situation like
(13:03):
that?
squadcaster-hdd0_1_06-21- (13:03):
Yeah, so you're talking about
deescalating an emotionalconversation.
So somebody comes in and theyare all fired up.
One of the best phrases you canuse is, tell me more.
And that seems socounterintuitive'cause you don't
actually want to hear morebecause they're already
screaming at you.
But when people are loud, eitherthey're loud emotionally,
(13:23):
they're actually loud, they'reusing loud words that start with
the letter F, right?
That loudness is a signal that Idon't feel like I'm being heard.
And so if you can very calmly.
Say, gosh, can you tell me somemore about that?
And sincerely, they're gonnacalm down because now they don't
(13:44):
have to scream to be heard'causeyou've just invited them to tell
you more.
Another is to call the emotionout.
I've noticed that your voice isreally elevated.
I've noticed that you used theFBO three times in this first
paragraph since you've walkedinto my office.
And I'm curious what's going onfor you?
So you're creating some clarity,but then you're really showing
(14:05):
up curious.
And the other is you can do areflect to connect on the
emotional level.
It sounds to me like you'rereally frustrated about this.
Do I have that right?
Or it sounds to me like you'rereally frustrated what's going
on?
How can I be most helpful here?
And anything that helps createthat connection of being seen.
(14:26):
But you have the right to, if isa toxic, if there's bullying or
toxic, behavior, if they'retreating you in a way that you
do not wanna be treated.
You can also create someclarity.
Hey, I've noticed that you'rescreaming at me and you're
pounding your fist on my desk.
I can't, that's a hard note.
this is not how we're gonnacommunicate.
So can we figure out a way thatwe can calm down?
(14:49):
Maybe let's have thisconversation in 10 minutes, but
let's have this as twoprofessional human beings in
this conversation and ask forwhat you need.
'cause you don't have totolerate that escalated ness
either.
matthew_1_06-21-2024_100602 (15:02):
I really like that.
Help me more.
Part two, and obviously it's notone size fits all.
It probably depends and you havesome different tools there, but
I can see a lot of times peopleare just mad'cause they don't
like you or they're mad'causelike they found something to be
mad about.
And that re like when you'reasked that, it's like you have
to dig deeper for a biggerreason.
So it's I might be mad becausean email you sent.
squadcaster-hdd0_1_06-21-20 (15:25):
you sent
matthew_1_06-21-2024_100602 (15:26):
And you kinda say that, right?
This email you sent is bs, blah,blah, blah, blah, blah.
It's tell me more.
Where it's what else?
What else is there?
Really, I'm just mad and I canthink that moment maybe I would
hope would bring some clarity tothe person who's the offender
and say right deescalate.
this really bothered me becauseit made me look bad or you look
good or didn't, It didn'temphasize my work enough in the
(15:48):
situation, but I think
squadcaster-hdd0_1_06-21-20 (15:49):
but I think
matthew_1_06-21-2024_100 (15:50):
You're asking that person to almost
create a defense in a verynon-offensive way.
Can you tell me what about thisitself makes you mad?
Emails don't make you mad.
We all talk to each other.
That obviously wouldn't make youmad.
So what is it?
Can you tell me more?
And I think sometimes peoplethen they think through it and
they're like, oh, I guess that'sjust kind of it.
(16:12):
So that's a, I really like thatphrasing.
squadcaster-hdd0_1_06-21- (16:15):
Yeah.
And another is, what would asuccessful outcome do for you?
So if somebody's really upsetabout something and you, so
you're pulling them towardssolution, but you're not just
saying what a success look like,but what is it, what is their
hidden motivation like?
A successful outcome would makemy boss respect me more
successful outcome would meanthat I don't have to work until
eight o'clock at night every dayon this project.
(16:37):
So there's you're getting aconversation at a deeper
connected level with that.
matthew_1_06-21-2024_10060 (16:42):
Your research shows that workplace
conflict is on the rise.
Why do you think that is?
squadcaster-hdd0_1_06-21-2 (16:48):
Yeah we did the World Workplace
Conflict and CollaborationSurvey.
It was 5,000 people in 45countries to ask a number of
questions, and one was, isconflict getting worse?
And 70% said that conflict isthe same, worse, or
significantly worse than it was.
Just a couple of years ago, andwhen we dug underneath of that
(17:08):
and felt, to ask what was reallygoing on, a lot of it is poor
management practices.
and then before you get down onyour managers, it is way harder
to be a manager now than it wasbefore because it's so much more
complicated.
So much remote work.
We've got big changes in newtechnologies.
All these conflict cocktails allhappening at the same time.
Another said, post pandemicstress and anxiety.
(17:31):
There's a lot of that going on.
And so a conflict that might nothave been a big deal in the past
if you were already overwhelmed,stressed, anxious, feeling
disconnected for choosing yourbubble over the last couple of
years, and now you're reenteringit, but you're still working
remotely.
And all of that has differentkinds of impacts for people.
So knowing that all that isgoing on is also creating
(17:53):
anxiety and another is just thislack of shared expectations in
this new world of work.
So we are seeing a whole breedof conflict cocktails as we call
them, about things that like Iexpect that we're having a
one-on-one.
I expect you to put your camerason Now.
We've never talked about that,but you turn out your camera off
(18:14):
and I've got like, why are youdisrespecting me?
Why don't you even care enoughto put your camera on?
and I'm thinking we know eachother pretty well that I've had
my camera on all day with ourcustomers.
This is the one moment that Ican turn my camera off and eat
my sandwich while we have ourone-on-one.
And all that is we haven'treached alignment on shared
expectations, and then we'remaking assumptions work from
(18:34):
home policy or work fromanywhere.
Policy actual example of acompany had a work from anywhere
policy.
That is fine.
You can work anywhere as long asyou're getting your work done.
On LinkedIn, this person said,look, our company has this
wonderful work from anywherepolicy.
Here I am at the petting zoo,literally holding the Zoom call
(18:55):
and a laptop on one petting apony on the other hand, writing
it on LinkedIn, and thenresponding to everybody's
comments all day long.
That's really not the intent ofthe work from anywhere policy.
And the coworkers were gettingticked off.
They're like, he's notresponding to my email in three
days, but there he is respondingto everybody on the LinkedIn new
(19:15):
conflicts.
So I think that, part of that isequipping not just managers, but
everyone to how do we clarifyexpectations?
How do we reach sharedagreements?
How do we communicateconsistently so we have better
collaboration?
matthew_1_06-21-2024_100602 (19:31):
You talk quite a bit about remote
work and many interviews thesedays are virtual, and then a lot
of times you get the job andmaybe it's fully remote, maybe
it's hybrid, but I've seen a lotof the things that you said.
There's a breakdown incommunications.
It's like a whole new world ofwork, right?
Like the camera thing.
Some people are just shy, or tobe honest, they wanna wear their
(19:53):
comfy t-shirt and so they don'twanna turn the camera on.
squadcaster-hdd0_1_06-21- (19:55):
turn.
matthew_1_06-21-2024_10060 (19:57):
when it comes to conflict with these
things, or even non-virtual workrelated conflicts that happen,
how can job seekers effectivelymanage conflict when they're in
a workplace environment?
And typically this would be asit down with somebody, right?
Or just a quick pop in theoffice or clarify something in
(20:18):
the office setting.
squadcaster-hdd0_1_06-21-20 (20:19):
the office setting.
matthew_1_06-21-2024_100602 (20:20):
How do we do that in a virtual
world?
squadcaster-hdd0_1_06-2 (20:22):
virtual world?
Yeah, so it's very similar.
So the conversations are thesame whether you're virtual or
in person, right?
But I think we skip over some ofthese when we're, we tend to it.
It can be something thathappens.
So for example, if you werewalking into a conference room
with people, you would startgenerally with some level of
(20:44):
connections.
Hey, you know how's it going?
Oh, how was your weekend?
But sometimes we just pop into ateam meeting and bam, we're off
to the races and we start witha, exactly, just jump right into
the work and there's not thathuman connection or, the same
thing at the end of the meeting.
And so creating very deliberateways for people to think about
(21:05):
and being deliberate aboutcommunication.
We, in one of our trainingprograms where we're talking
about connection.
One of the things we do, just togive this as an example, is we,
before we even start, we'relike, okay, everybody here.
Okay, great.
First thing we're gonna do iswe're gonna put you in some
breakout rooms with three otherpeople, and you're gonna answer
one of these two questions.
You get to choose what is asource of strength inspiration
(21:29):
and strength for you right now,either personally or
professionally, or what is onething that you were really proud
of over the last six months.
Bam.
Put'em in the rooms, right?
Cold open into that.
10 minutes later, come back,everybody looks different.
When they come back, they'relaughing, they're smiling.
And then the point is that took10 minutes and it, so it doesn't
(21:53):
take long to create that humanconnection.
And then the, another thing thatmanagers can do, and we do this
in every training program werun, we are this meeting, we are
going to end this training ontime.
And we are going to stay behindtill everyone is gone.
So just like we, if we were in aconference room together, if you
have something that you wannatalk about in a more intimate
(22:13):
way, just hang back.
And, because that's what wefound was missing when we
transitioned to some of thisvirtual training.
But managers can do the samething and you may have somebody
say, Hey, even if three peoplehang back.
And you're like, great.
What I'm gonna do now is I'llset up, and then I'm gonna give
you a call and we're gonna dothat.
So you have that sort of aftereffect.
(22:34):
So that connection is one bigone and then the others really
if expectations aren't clear,you don't have to wait for your
manager to clarify, ask forclarification.
Let me just check forunderstanding when you say this
report Needs to be done soon.
Is that like soon by noon or isthat soon?
By next Wednesday.
And to create that clarity.
matthew_1_06-21-2024_1006 (22:54):
Yeah, asap, right?
Everything is asap.
squadcaster-hdd0_1_06-21- (22:57):
Asap, right?
Everything is asap.
matthew_1_06-21-2024_10060 (23:00):
Have you identified any red flags for
of companies?
That might have a bad culture ofconflict, high conflict, high
stress culture, any red flagsthat job seekers could kinda get
on their radar and look out forwhen they are interviewing,
applying, researching.
squadcaster-hdd0_1_06-21-20 (23:18):
the first thing I would do is to
ask, they may ask you about aconflict scenario that you've
had, but you can also ask, whatis the culture like here?
when people have differentpoints of view and
disagreements.
how does that show up?
How do they talk about things.
Is it acceptable to disagreewith your boss?
ask those kinds of questions ifthat stuff is really important
to you.
(23:38):
If it is important for you towork in a highly collaborative
environment.
Say, it's really important forme to work in a highly
collaborative environment.
I wanna really show up as a teamplayer.
What are some of the things thatyou do here to make that work
well?
And what are some of the biggestchallenges that you see for
people getting along?
one of the things that we see iswe work with a lot of really
(23:59):
fast growing companies in manyof those cases, the
collaboration worked super wellwhen they were in startup mode.
now that they've grown, maybe ahundred people, there is a level
of frustration of, oh, we usedto just be able to pull
everybody in a room and now Igotta go through my boss So if
there's something that ischanging that you've noticed
about the company, you couldalso say that.
(24:20):
See, I have noticed that youguys have moved from 40 to 400
people in the last year.
I'm really curious, how's thatshowing up for your culture?
That's a wise question to askand see what they say.
matthew_1_06-21-2024_100602 (24:34):
My observation has been that a lot
of companies when it comes toimproving, growing.
Just like even I mentionedearlier, how can I improve here?
What are some soft skills I canimprove on?
A lot of times we focus on thenegative, and so the people who
are conflict oriented.
Start fights.
They might be the ones that arepointed towards tools to help
(24:55):
them get better.
In my opinion, those tools aremaybe even more empowering for
people who are the opposite andare scared to death of conflict
and are bullied.
Those are the people who I thinkcan, even from you saying, tell
me more, things like that, thatcan be even more empowering for
them, especially as
squadcaster-hdd0_1_06-21-20 (25:12):
for them, especially
matthew_1_06-21-2024_10060 (25:13):
they are the innocent party.
But they might not know how todeal with that and they just.
squadcaster-hdd0_1_06-21-2 (25:18):
deal with that, and they
matthew_1_06-21-2024_1006 (25:19):
Often get walked over or beat up in
these situations by theoverpowering, I'll just use the
word, workplace kind of bulliesthat are louder or more
aggressive or more assertive.
So for listeners, my hope isthat especially all people who
are conflict oriented, get withit and get better, but those who
seem like they're on thereceiving end, both parties,
(25:41):
what are resources or tools thatyou recommend for.
Professionals, whether they'rejob seekers currently employed
or outta college, anywhere intheir career, what are some good
tools for them to either improvethemselves or be more empowered
in dealing with people who bringconflict to the workplace?
squadcaster-hdd0_1_06 (26:00):
conflicts to the workplace?
our book is.
Designed in a couple of ways.
It introduces the fourdimensions of a productive
conflict, which I talked about,but then you go to the table of
contents and you just can say,am I in acute conflict
emergency?
Is somebody bullying me?
Is somebody gossiping?
Am I dealing with a matrixorganization where expectations
aren't clear?
My feeling invisible is my bossnot making a decision.
(26:22):
Go to the table, contents, go tothe chapter, and we give you a
way to approach these andoptions, right?
So you can't script everyconflict.
But here, start with connection,then move to curiosity now com
Commitment and it gives you, wehave over 300 powerful phrases.
Of course that is one.
The other is Thomas Kilmanassessment is a conflict
(26:43):
assessment and actually workedwith Ralph Kilman when we were
doing research for our book, andI asked him if we're allowed to
call him the grandfather ofconflict.
And because, he's been at this along time.
And he said, yes, he's proud tobe the grandfather of conflict,
but what he really talks aboutin addition to this assessment,
which it's called the TKI, andyou can think about your
(27:04):
conflict styles and the conflictstyles of other people and how
can you work with acrossdifferent kinds of styles.
Are you collaborating?
Are you competing right?
And to be aware of what'shappening from a dynamic.
But his more advanced work talksabout are there situations that
are structural?
(27:24):
Are you trying to solve ainterpersonal challenge with a
structural problem?
and so if there's structuralproblems, then don't get caught
up in the interpersonal.
Let's work on trying to say, bereal clear.
Hey, there's a structure herethat is making this hard for us.
This isn't personal, but how arewe gonna work together in this
structure?
It was fascinating.
(27:45):
last night we were on aconversation with a guy who runs
training organization inMalaysia, and he was asking how
we could use our synergy stackcards, which are habit cards
around these dimensions ofcollaboration for a really
serious situation they had.
the bottom line is you had twoteams.
They were competing.
For compensation.
(28:05):
they were internal, but theywere competing in a sales
organization for the samecustomers.
And it was creating a radicalamount of conflict.
Just telling people that youshould be nice and get to know
each other as human beings, justgoing bowling with them is not
gonna solve that problem.
You've got to talk about what isactually happening and work to
create collaborative solutions.
(28:27):
Because one of the bosses wasjust saying.
You just gotta do for thegreater good of the company.
When you're compensating peopleon commission that's not
realistic, right?
So you need to be able to say,okay, this is what it is.
We're not gonna be able tochange it.
So how can we collaborate to geta, what does success look like
for you in this scenario?
Kinds of conversations.
matthew_1_06-21-2024_100602 (28:47):
I am super embarrassed.
I'm so glad I didn't saysomething out loud.
I was gonna ask if your new bookhas phrasing or sentences to
help with conflict resolutionand then the.
Title of Karen's book isPowerful Phrases for Dealing
With Workplace Conflict.
My huge preference is I like tolearn how, but it's also for me,
(29:08):
it's like show me how, tell me,like gimme some actual wording
that I can use and incorporate.
So your newest book is PowerfulPhrases for Dealing With
Workplace Conflict, and I thinkit's a safe assumption that you
have some example phrases inthere.
Is that right?
For listeners and readers.
squadcaster-hdd0_1_06-21-20 (29:25):
300 plus Powerful
matthew_1_06-21-2024_100602 (29:27):
I love that.
When is that book released?
squadcaster-hdd0_1_06-21-2 (29:29):
It's available everywhere in
paperback audio Kindle.
matthew_1_06-21-2024_100602 (29:34):
We will link to that in this
episode's description.
How can listeners connect withyou or your organization to
learn beyond just your new bookthat you just released?
squadcaster-hdd0_1_06-21-20 (29:44):
new book that you just wrote.
Yeah, so the our company'scalled Let's Grow Leaders and on
LinkedIn.
I'm Karen with an I Hurt andwould love to connect.
Every week we, if you wannasubscribe to our blog, every
week we put out an article, apodcast and asking for a friend
video series.
matthew_1_06-21-2024_100602 (30:03):
I'm not an expert in this field at
all, Karen is, but here's myadvice to listeners.
If you are the person Idescribed where you seem to be
on the receiving end of thismore than the offending end of
this,
squadcaster-hdd0_1_06-21-20 (30:18):
end of
matthew_1_06-21-2024_10 (30:19):
there's not like a, there's no right
time to start learning about it,learning about this after
something bad happens.
Puts you kinda on your backfoot.
So I think adopting this andlike a book like this, starting
to learn how to deal with this,it will happen.
And so being ahead of the curve,not being so reactive, but
proactive, unfortunately I thinkpeople are losing touch with
(30:43):
some of their just good manners.
And this is showing up in theworkplace.
squadcaster-hdd0_1_06-21-202 (30:47):
up in the
matthew_1_06-21-2024_10 (30:48):
Karen's research is showing, conflict is
on the rise.
So a tool like this.
will help you in your job searchas you even learning how to
interact during an interview ifthings get a little tense, if
people are rude or late, butoverall, for job sustainability,
for dealing with that.
It seems like every workplacehas at least one person.
Be proactive And get ahead ofthis.
(31:10):
And I say that because it'll putyou in a better place.
I think you will be morecomfortable.
I don't like workplace bulliesor rude people or anything like
that, but they exist.
It's just a fact of life.
It seems like they aremultiplying, that's where tools
like this really help you whensomething bad happens and it
could escalate at work becauseyou just don't know quite what
(31:31):
to say or how to deal with it.
squadcaster-hdd0_1_06-21-20 (31:32):
say or how to deal
matthew_1_06-21-2024_1006 (31:33):
These tools help you.
I think with job sustainability,being able to navigate things
and even hopefully get alongwith those people who don't have
these same tools and willinteract with you at one point
or another
squadcaster-hdd0_1_06-21-2 (31:45):
with you at one point or another.
Very well said.
matthew_1_06-21-2024_100 (31:48):
before we go.
Would you share any finalthoughts, words of encouragement
or motivation that you mighthave for our listeners as they
absorb this information?
Check out your resources andmove forward in their job search
and career.
squadcaster-hdd0_1_06-21- (32:02):
Yeah.
The very first thing I would sayis the most important
conversation, the most importantpowerful phrase, or dealing with
workplace conflict are theconversations that you have with
yourself.
It's, often so easy to say,they'll never understand they're
not gonna care about it anyway.
And so you don't give the otherperson the benefit of the doubt
to have the conversation.
So here are three questions toask.
(32:24):
If you have a conflictconversation that you need to
have, but you're maybe avoidingit, why does what you have to
say matter?
Why is what you have to sayimportant?
And if you can't really come upwith it, then maybe you just let
it go.
But if you've got somethingimportant, why does it matter?
What is at stake?
If you stay silent?
What is at stake for yourrelationship with that person?
(32:44):
What is at stake for theoutcomes?
What is stake for your values?
What is at stake for your mentalhealth?
And then imagine that you've hadthe conversation and at least
you've been Maybe it didn't goexactly how you wanted, but you
feel like you've genuinely beenheard.
How do you feel?
And when we ask that question inour training programs, it's
(33:04):
always like we are chatting howyou feel heard relief.
and that relief is what we wantfor you.
We want you to feel calm, tofeel relieved, to feel less
stressed, to feel heard.
And so that is my hope.
And if you are dealing with abad boss.
be the courageous leader you'dwant your boss to be.
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