April 22, 2025 • 24 mins
Connect with Lorraine:
unforgettablepresencebook.com
linkedin.com/in/lorraineklee
Lorraine K. Lee, LinkedIn Top Voice & author of Unforgettable Presence (Apr 22 2025)
- Big Idea – Hard work gets you noticed inside your cubicle; presence gets you noticed outside it.
- 3 Arenas to Master
- Executive Poise – How you show up in rooms.
- Digital Footprint – LinkedIn posts ≈ once / month to start.
- Micro‑Interactions – Slack, meetings, quick intros.
- Quick Wins
- Craft a one‑line A‑U‑P‑I (unique intro).
- Use T‑E‑A on video: tech, energy, aesthetics.
- Reframe results in dollars saved or earned—not hours worked.
- Frameworks Mentioned – EPIC Career Brand (Experiences • Personality • Identity • Community).
- Introvert Edge – Lean on writing, chat summaries, one‑on‑ones; when you speak, people listen.
- Action Steps – Polish your LinkedIn headline, test your A‑U‑P‑I tomorrow, fix one TEA item before your next call.
https://moveupcareers.com/strategycall
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-job-interview-experience/id1538223546
https://moveupcareers.com/survey
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
matthew_1_03-14-2025_110458 (00:00):
Up in your career?
Doesn't happen magically.
For some, it happen at all, orit seems like that's paused.
It's not always skills you bringto the table.
The hard work that you do, ofthe most important factors, a
factor that you can learn andcontrol and use to fast track
(00:21):
your growth is presence.
And Lorraine Kaylee is anexpert.
the expert on presence.
Lorraine is an award-winningkeynote speaker and bestselling
author of UnforgettablePresence, get Seen, gain,
influence, and Catapult YourCareer.
A LinkedIn Top Voice InWorkplace Communication, she
(00:44):
helps professionals elevatetheir presence, influence, and
impact.
Her frameworks, which we'll talkabout today, have been adopted
by Fortune 500 companies likeZoom, Amazon, McKinsey.
A bunch of other actually reallyimpressive names with hundreds
of thousands of LinkedInfollowers.
Lorraine teaches at Stanfordcontinuing studies and LinkedIn
(01:06):
Learning, reaching a globalaudience.
is going to get us up to speedon executive presence from
standing out to leadership tolooking like the leader you are
making impressions at jobinterviews and even improving
presence on video calls like theone Lorraine and I are on right
(01:27):
now.
Lorraine, welcome to the Move UpPodcast.
lorraine-k--lee_1_03-14-2 (01:30):
Thank you so much for having me.
I'm excited to be here.
matthew_1_03-14-2025_ (01:32):
Executive presence and career growth, it's
often seen as a key factor inmoving from, say, middle
management to
lorraine-k--lee_1_03-14-20 (01:41):
You.
matthew_1_03-14-2025_110 (01:42):
roles.
I also think of the word, liketemperament.
do you define executive presenceand what are some practical
steps for professionals to taketo be seen as a leader?
lorraine-k--lee_1_03-14-20 (01:54):
What I'm doing with this book is I'm
actually redefining whatprofessional presence means.
I think to your point, like whena lot of people hear the word
presence, they think ofexecutive presence in a more
traditional sense.
How do I show up in a room?
I think executive presence isone piece of the puzzle, one
piece of presence, but presenceactually is much broader in this
(02:14):
day and age to really be bothhow and where you are seen.
So you want to make sure thatyou are exuding presence, you
have executive presence, right?
That's one piece.
But it's also important to makesure that you have presence on
platforms like LinkedIn, thatyou have a strong virtual and
video presence, that you havepresence when you lead meetings,
when you advocate for yourselfeven in a Slack or teams
(02:37):
channel, the way you talk withyour coworkers.
And so I think presence hasreally become much broader and.
It's really important to beintentional about how and where
you are seen, making sure youare seen by the right people in
the right places as well.
And hopefully this isencouraging for people who might
feel like, oh, I'm not anexecutive, or I don't have that
(02:59):
natural charisma gravitas.
While your presence can reallybe built across all these
different things to build youroverall unforgettable presence.
matthew_1_03-14-2025_1104 (03:08):
Maybe just sharing your thoughts once
a week.
I haven't figured it out yet.
How do you convince people theimportance of that and how that.
Integrates into the overallpresence that you're talking
about.
lorraine-k--lee_1_03-14-2 (03:19):
sure.
I call LinkedIn our modernvirtual office, our virtual
water cooler, and our virtuallanding page, linkedIn is often
the place that people will go tofirst to assess how credible you
are to understand yourbackground and who you are.
When we get those messages andwe're not sure, is this person
real, are they not?
(03:39):
We clicked through theirprofile, right?
We're making these snapjudgments and when I was an
editor at LinkedIn, so I waspart of the team that brought
content to the platform.
I get it.
It is very nerve wracking.
It's scary.
Even when I was at LinkedIn Iwas very nervous.
Posting on the platform,ironically.
But to your point, like itdoesn't have to be.
You don't have to be a quoteunquote content creator.
(04:00):
You don't have to haveaspirations to become an
influencer.
You really have to think aboutit as what is the image that you
want to show the world, andshare with the world?
What is the expertise like?
What do you want to be knownfor?
And so LinkedIn is very powerfulfor that, right?
People go to your page to assesssocial proof, to see your
credibility.
And so to your point, Matthewposting.
(04:22):
I actually like to say likereally lower your expectations,
like post once a month, likethat's your goal once a month
and you can do once a month.
And then you're gonna realize,oh, it's not too bad.
Maybe I'll go twice a month.
And you pick up like that.
You want it to be somethingsustainable.
It shouldn't be something thattires you out or burns you out,
but I think.
When you start, the more you putinto the platform, you will see
(04:44):
all these benefits that comeyour way.
People are gonna be reaching outfor opportunities even if you're
working at a company, right?
This happened to me.
People saw me as more of theface of, they saw me as more of
a leader.
'cause they're like, wow, she'sputting herself out there on
LinkedIn.
And I got tapped foropportunities internally because
people saw me posting onLinkedIn and some of my.
(05:05):
Best friends and greatestcollaborators like I've met
through LinkedIn, starting offas strangers.
Haven't even met some of them inperson.
There's just so much goodnessthat comes from it, and I know
it's scary.
I know it's uncomfortable, butthat's usually my pitch.
matthew_1_03-14-2025_1104 (05:17):
Let's talk a little bit about hard
work because I love hard work.
However, doesn't get you as faras a lot of people think It
should, and I it's good for youto work hard and be but it's
also a flawed approach if that'sall you're doing to get ahead.
What should people also have ontheir radar to move up in their
career?
lorraine-k--lee_1_03-14-20 (05:37):
Yeah you bring up a really important
point in that I think a lot ofus think that hard work.
Is going to be what gets uspromoted, what gets us to that
next level.
And hard work is reallyimportant and you want to have a
good reputation and be someonewho knows how to actually do the
work.
I had the pleasure ofinterviewing nearly three dozen
experts from my book.
Danielle Pink is one of themfive times, New York Times
(05:59):
bestselling author, and he says80% of what you're known for
should be that you work hard,you do great work, you have
great output, but.
20%.
That's the really critical piecethat we don't get taught that
will allow us to showcase ourwork, that people know who we
are, that they know what we'redoing.
Because if you're just workingheads down at your desk and no
(06:21):
one ever sees it what's it allfor?
matthew_1_03-14-2025_1104 (06:23):
Yeah.
lorraine-k--lee_1_03-14-20 (06:23):
it's not gonna get you so far.
And knowing how to advocate foryour work, knowing how to
tactfully promote yourself, howto build those relationships,
and how to really lift your headup from the desk right is so
critical in allowing you toadvance and really be known in
your workplace.
matthew_1_03-14-2025_1104 (06:39):
Yeah, and I think an example of that,
when you talk about your work,obviously people don't like
someone who's I work so hard.
lorraine-k--lee_1_03-14-2 (06:45):
Yeah.
matthew_1_03-14-2025_110458 (06:46):
For the company I'm number one.
But when you can frame itinstead of, I did.
It's 82% more work than mycoworkers last month, or my
peers, whatever, who's sayingthat is a, my work led to a 38%
increase in revenue for mydepartment, or 38%.
In savings, right?
It could be a thousand differentSo making your hard work, your
output about the company thatyou work for, your organization
(07:08):
versus just yourself,
lorraine-k--lee_1_03-14-2 (07:10):
Yeah.
matthew_1_03-14-2025_110458 (07:10):
me that's a way to positively frame
it that people will accept rightas Oh, that's great.
It sounds like your missionoriented with the company wow, I
wish we had someone like thathere.
I wish I had an employee thatnot only had the mindset.
To do that, but also the ability
lorraine-k--lee_1_03-14-202 (07:24):
you bring up a great point.
Like anytime you can tie yourresults to the company's bottom
line, no one's ever gonna thinkthat's bragging.
Leadership will love to hearthat you're impacting the bottom
line.
So framing it like that isreally great.
And then I think also anotherangle that you can take is, let
me share my learnings from whatI did.
And now you're being helpful.
And especially like me as anintrovert, it's very hard to
(07:45):
talk about ourselves, talk aboutour work.
Let me frame it as an, oh, Ilearned this thing, or we tried
this, and hopefully other teamscan learn from that and apply it
to their own work as well.
So that's another strategy thatyou can try that I think is
maybe a little bit morecomfortable, especially to the
introverts, but still gets theword out about what you're
doing.
matthew_1_03-14-2025_11045 (08:04):
When I was an executive recruiter
running my own firm, I got tohave a lot of really interesting
conversations.
one of'em that struck me when Iwas preparing for our call is
there's a man I was talking to,I think he was probably late
forties, early fifties, veryhighly paid executive at a
medium sized company.
Very like the kind of personpeople are like, wow, I want
(08:24):
that someday you, I can buyanything, all that.
one of the things he said to me.
is, I don't feel like anyoneever sees me.
And it wasn't because he wantedmore attention, it was because
in a room, he wouldn't look likethe power executive in movies.
He was, unassuming, not tryingto impress people.
He said, I feel like I'minvisible and no one really is
interested in me or my work,and.
(08:47):
I say that maybe some peoplelistening can relate, but I say
that because even executiveswanna stand out to executives
and there are people who get 99%of the attention in a room and
things like that.
And I'm not always superimpressed with those people.
A lot of times it's a whole lotof talk and not a whole lot of
action, right?
lorraine-k--lee_1_03-14-2 (09:05):
Yeah.
matthew_1_03-14-2025_110458 (09:06):
is self-promotion more than doing
lorraine-k--lee_1_03-14-20 (09:08):
Talk about substance.
matthew_1_03-14-2025 (09:09):
Executives wanna stand out to executives
and of course people who aremoving up in their career even
more so when they get thosecouple seconds with an
executive, when you get to meetsomeone at a networking event,
we all wanna stand out toexecutives.
So what would you say are thetop practical ways for folks to
make a strong and lastingimpression on executives?
lorraine-k--lee_1_03-14-202 (09:31):
One thing that I would definitely
start working on is somethingthat I call A-U-P-I-A unique and
powerful introduction.
And this is not just, hi, I amLorraine.
I'm on the marketing team,right?
It's, hi, I'm Lorraine.
I work on the editorial team.
And what that means is we workwith a lot of business
influencers to create contentand I'm really excited we just
(09:54):
came out with this, campaign andgive a little bit detail.
Because like you said, sometimesyou only have a few minutes or a
minute, like a very short amountof time to share more about who
you are, and so that also has anadded benefit.
Now the executive knows a littlebit more about you.
You've given them some context,and now there's something they
can grasp onto to continue theconversation versus, hi, I'm
Lorraine.
I'm in marketing.
(10:15):
Okay, now what?
matthew_1_03-14-2025_11045 (10:16):
What are some essentials for standing
out and being professional on avideo call besides not wearing
your pajamas?
lorraine-k--lee_1_03-14 (10:25):
There's two things that come to mind for
me.
So the first is turning offautopilot small talk, which is
very common, especially on videocalls, because what happens when
we're on video calls is we'reusually at home.
We're more relaxed, we're inback to back virtual meetings.
We're tired.
We're going to get on a call andwe're gonna go into the How are
you?
I'm good.
How are you?
(10:45):
I'm good too.
That's like such a missedopportunity if you're talking to
an executive.
So when you break out of theautopilot conversations and it
doesn't take much, it's smalltweaks.
Instead of how was your weekend?
You might ask what was thehighlight of your weekend?
And then when they ask youquestions, offer up something
besides good.
If they ask, how are you can saygood and say, oh, I just
finished listening to thispodcast.
Or I was able to go on a runthis weekend just providing
(11:08):
something a little bit more.
It's a concept calledconversational threading, where
you're giving threads that theycan pull from.
And also asking questions thatallow them to give you threads.
So that will allow you toconnect much more easily and
build those relationships at thestart of a call.
Again, with not very much time.
And then the second thing Iwould say is you have to be
really intentional about yourvirtual and video presence.
(11:30):
I see you, Matthew, you have areally nice setup.
Like I know you have thelighting, you have your
background like.
matthew_1_03-14-2025_110458 (11:35):
I try really hard
lorraine-k--lee_1_03-14-2 (11:36):
Yeah, you thought about it, right?
And you look professional.
Now imagine I'm getting on acall and you're the executive
and I'm in a dark room, or I'mon my laptop and it's like going
at a weird angle, or I looksuper small on screen or too big
on screen.
It just, doesn't leave a goodimpression.
And so just be thoughtful aboutI call it the T methods or tech.
(11:56):
Energy and aesthetics on a call.
So that's, a bunch of differentfactors, but thinking through
method and those things that youneed to think about before you
get on a call to make sureyou're showing up well, that
also, subconsciously orotherwise, will leave a strong
impression.
And if you're only, interactingor mostly interacting on video,
these are key moments you wantto take advantage of.
matthew_1_03-14-2025_110458 (12:15):
Do you have frameworks that
listeners can connect with, sothey can work on their own UPI
or you mentioned something else,
lorraine-k--lee_1_03-14-202 (12:22):
The team method.
Yes.
Yes the book will have all ofthat in there, but there are
some pre-order bonuses as wellif people want to grab those.
And then I do have freeresources on my website as well.
So if you go to lorrainekaylee.com you'll find free
resources amongst a bunch ofdifferent topics that you can
grab.
matthew_1_03-14-2025_11045 (12:38):
What are some strategies for
introverts to visibility whileremaining comfortable and being
themselves?
lorraine-k--lee_1_03-14- (12:46):
That's a important question.
I am an introvert.
And yeah, I can be reallyuncomfortable, but I think what
introverts have to remember isthat introverts have a lot of
strength.
There's a ton of introvertsuperpowers.
We just have to tap into them.
So for example, in a meeting, Imight not be super comfortable
jumping in and figuring out whento unmute, but I'm a strong
(13:09):
writer.
And so I can write my thoughtsin the chat, or perhaps after
the call is over, I can justthink a little bit more and send
a summary or connect the dots insome way in a way that others
aren't able to.
So leaning into strengths likethat I think is very important.
And the thing about introvertsis because you're not always
talking, when you do talk,people listen.
(13:29):
So that's also very powerful andsomething to remember.
Introverts also are really goodat relationship building.
So that's also something to keepin mind, work, productivity just
all the things that come out ofyour work influence, right?
All these things that we want ina professional setting come from
relationships.
So you might not feelcomfortable in a big, happy
hour, but schedule thoseone-on-one meetings to connect
(13:51):
with others to get buy-inperhaps before the big meeting.
That will take you very far.
And yeah, the relationships arethe foundation, I feel like of
the office.
So that's such a superpower.
I think that introverts have.
matthew_1_03-14-2025_110458 (14:05):
All of these factors of improving
presence and having it, none ofthat really matters if you don't
talk to anybody.
I think what coincides with thisis networking events and I'll
share really honestly.
So like my very first job, likereal job was selling newspaper
ads for business journal, andpart of that was going to.
(14:25):
Every networking event ever.
I've talked about it before onthe podcast, a lot of networking
events, it just so happened thata lot of the top CEOs and the
companies, business owners verypowerful people were also at a
lot of these networking events.
Not all of'em, but many of them.
And I remember my feeling, to beperfectly honest, is like I am
the very.
Bottom of the totem pole, of thelist of people that who a
(14:46):
conversation matters for thisFortune 500 CEO that's in the
room.
I love to meet them.
I'm not gonna try and sell themsomething.
I'd love to come up and say hi,I admire your work whatever.
I would also have this feelingthere should be a line of 500
other people that theirconversation matters more than
mine.
For listeners, anyone, hopefullythat can relate to that or
hopefully you've never felt thatway, but I know I felt that way
(15:06):
early in my career.
What are some practical ways toreframe that self-doubt and
build an authentic confidence totalk to people, whether it's a
CEO or just whoever happens tobe next to you in a room.
lorraine-k--lee_1_03-14-2025_ (15:21):
I think sometimes it can get very
nerve wracking.
Trying to approach strangers.
And I think a lot of it is likewe, we can build it up in our
head, right?
And we have to remembereveryone's a person.
And I think this is especiallytrue with executives because it
is very easy to psych yourselfout when you're talking to
someone more senior.
So remembering that we're allpeople, we all have, shared
experiences in some way.
(15:43):
And I think that's a veryhelpful grounding thing to do.
If you're nervous talking topeople, it's helpful as well.
Some strategies that might workare bringing an extroverted
buddy with you or someone whoknows other people in the room
who can help facilitateintroductions.
Sometimes it's just aboutbreaking the ice.
That's the hardest part.
So having someone there to dothat is really helpful.
(16:03):
And then one thing that's workedreally well for me actually is.
Finding or getting the attendeelist ahead of time.
And then finding them all onLinkedIn.
Adding them on LinkedIn.
And I remember I did this a fewmonths ago and someone actually
came up to me, they were like,oh you added me on LinkedIn.
And so that was just so easy.
Like people were coming up to mebecause not a lot of people do
that.
(16:24):
I think that's a really greatway to stand out and then have
that breaking the ice momentwhen people are coming to you.
matthew_1_03-14-2025_110458 (16:29):
The risk is doing this without a
plan, am I gonna have a presenceof the funny person or the
confident person or the knowseverything person or whatever.
And maybe those are all badideas, by the way.
I think not having a plan or avision.
For your brand could leave yougoing in circles on this and
maybe trying out differentpersonas, which is probably
natural, but also not lead youto an end goal.
(16:53):
Is there a strategy of howpeople can start building one.
lorraine-k--lee_1_03-14-2025_ (16:57):
I created something called the
Epic Career Brand Framework.
Because to your point, when youthink of brand, you're like,
where do I start?
And so EPIC stands forexperiences personality,
identity and community.
And so experiences you can takethat from your professional
life, from your personal life.
Personality.
I'm more introverted, forexample.
(17:17):
I'm perhaps more serious.
Versus playful.
So just understanding thedifferent, what you bring to the
table, your personalityidentity, that can be your
cultural background.
It can be your values, forexample, for me, relationships
are super important at work, andI find it very important to
follow through on what I say I'mgoing to do.
So that's something that I wantto be known for.
(17:38):
And the C which is perhaps oneof the more important pieces
that people forget about is yourcommunity.
When you create your brand andyou start thinking about
formulating your brand, it'sgreat as a first step, but if
your community is not seeing youthe way that you want to be
perceived, then there's adisconnect that you have to fix.
So sometimes if perhaps yourbrand is too aspirational and
(17:58):
you're up here and yourcommunity seeing you down here,
you have to maybe.
Progress a little bit more alongthe way, and your brand can
change over time and transformdepending on life stage and
career goals and all that.
But that's a helpful frameworkto start thinking through.
Okay, what makes me special?
What do I value and what do Iwanna put out into the world?
matthew_1_03-14-2025_110458 (18:16):
Can you tell us a little bit more
about why you wrote the book itsounds like an incredible amount
of time and energy went intoresearching and planning and
writing it.
lorraine-k--lee_1_03-14-2 (18:26):
Wrote the book because, and I think
similar to you, like I wannahelp people avoid the mistakes,
the challenges that I had to gothrough.
And it's the guide essentiallythat I wish I had when I was
earlier on in my career I talkabout this story at the
beginning.
I was a founding editor atLinkedIn, you mentioned at the
start.
And I loved my job at LinkedIn.
I loved my coworkers.
(18:46):
I worked on really big projects.
My coworkers really liked me.
But as hard as I tried, I couldnot figure out how to get
promoted from that mid-level tothat senior level, and I just,
it was so frustrating because Iknew I had all this potential
and I just didn't know how toget others to see it.
And so this book helps thosereally ambitious professionals.
(19:09):
The high potential leaders gofrom overlooked and feeling
perhaps unseen to unforgettable.
And my goal with this book is toreally break down all the
elements of presence, like Imentioned earlier, it's your
presentations, it's how you leadmeetings, it's how you
communicate, advocate foryourself, show up on LinkedIn,
et cetera, et cetera.
And provide a really clearroadmap about how you can exude
(19:32):
a really strong presence in allthose areas.
And then that creates yourunforgettable presence.
So it's, again, it's not justthe executive presence, but it's
how can I be really intentionalbuild on the already great work
I'm doing right?
Like everyone who's reading thisbook is probably already doing a
wonderful job at executing, buthow can I now just make some
tweaks to uplevel to that nextplace?
matthew_1_03-14-2025_110458 (19:53):
If someone reads it,
lorraine-k--lee_1_03-14-2 (19:54):
Yeah,
matthew_1_03-14-2025_110 (19:54):
what's one thing that you are confident
it will make a positive impacton in their career?
lorraine-k--lee_1_03- (20:01):
hopefully so many things.
But I would say probably one ofthe more impactful ones that
take.
Less amount of work, I think isa virtual presence.
It's funny because sometimespeople are like virtual presence
haven't we all figured it out bynow?
And I'm like, no.
I'm sure Matthew, you've been oncalls too, where you're like, oh
gosh.
(20:22):
Like they're not, they're notthinking about it at all, or
they're like looking off.
matthew_1_03-14-2025_110458 (20:25):
Did they forget the cameras
lorraine-k--lee_1_03-14-2 (20:26):
Yeah,
matthew_1_03-14-2025_11045 (20:26):
what I like.
lorraine-k--lee_1_03-1 (20:27):
Exactly.
Yeah, so I think I do feel likevirtual presence has such big
potential to really influencehow people perceive you.
And it doesn't take too much tooptimize that and practice being
better at that.
And that's not just like the wayyou look on camera, right?
But also at, hand gestures, yourfacial expressions the way you
start off calls, the way youlead calls, all those different
(20:47):
aspects.
matthew_1_03-14-2025_110458 (20:50):
As I said in the introduction,
career growth doesn't typicallyhappen magically, and you, when
you're listening, you probablyhave some level of presence, but
I guarantee it can be better.
So if there's no magic and ifit's not just hard work, it's
things like this and you have toinvest in your career to get
there.
So I would highly recommend youget a copy of the book.
(21:12):
Can you remind me when it comesout
lorraine-k--lee_1_03-14-2025 (21:13):
Or so it's out April 22nd and you
can buy it on Amazon, Barnes andNoble pretty much wherever you
get your books.
And then if you pre-order thebook unforgettable presence
book.com, you can visit thatpage and upload your pre-order
receipt and get a lot of extrabonuses and goodies.
matthew_1_03-14-2025_110458 (21:30):
I'm going to buy it.
lorraine-k--lee_1_03-14-2 (21:30):
Thank you.
matthew_1_03-14-2025_11045 (21:31):
It's a huge advantage you can have
against the competition, whetherit be for a promotion or a job
interview or anything else.
Before we sign off, can youleave our listeners with some
final words of wisdom ormotivation?
lorraine-k--lee_1_03-14-2025_ (21:46):
I would love your listeners to
know that presence is somethingthat all of us can cultivate and
grow and strengthen.
I am confident that afterreading the book you are going
to feel more confident andexcited to really hone these
skills.
And like you said, like the softskills, especially in this age
of ai, like that's gonna be thespecial part of you, the part
(22:07):
that helps differentiate you andhelps you.
Grow your career and become morefuture proof.
So I'm excited for everyone tocheck it out.
Up in your career?
Doesn't happen magically.
For some, it happen at all, orit seems like that's paused.
It's not always skills you bringto the table.
The hard work that you do, ofthe most important factors, a
factor that you can learn andcontrol and use to fast track
(00:21):
your growth is presence.
And Lorraine Kaylee is anexpert.
the expert on presence.
Lorraine is an award-winningkeynote speaker and bestselling
author of UnforgettablePresence, get Seen, gain,
influence, and Catapult YourCareer.
A LinkedIn Top Voice InWorkplace Communication, she
(00:44):
helps professionals elevatetheir presence, influence, and
impact.
Her frameworks, which we'll talkabout today, have been adopted
by Fortune 500 companies likeZoom, Amazon, McKinsey.
A bunch of other actually reallyimpressive names with hundreds
of thousands of LinkedInfollowers.
Lorraine teaches at Stanfordcontinuing studies and LinkedIn
(01:06):
Learning, reaching a globalaudience.
is going to get us up to speedon executive presence from
standing out to leadership tolooking like the leader you are
making impressions at jobinterviews and even improving
presence on video calls like theone Lorraine and I are on right
(01:27):
now.
Lorraine, welcome to the Move UpPodcast.
lorraine-k--lee_1_03-14-2 (01:30):
Thank you so much for having me.
I'm excited to be here.
matthew_1_03-14-2025_ (01:32):
Executive presence and career growth, it's
often seen as a key factor inmoving from, say, middle
management to
lorraine-k--lee_1_03-14-20 (01:41):
You.
matthew_1_03-14-2025_110 (01:42):
roles.
I also think of the word, liketemperament.
do you define executive presenceand what are some practical
steps for professionals to taketo be seen as a leader?
lorraine-k--lee_1_03-14-20 (01:54):
What I'm doing with this book is I'm
actually redefining whatprofessional presence means.
I think to your point, like whena lot of people hear the word
presence, they think ofexecutive presence in a more
traditional sense.
How do I show up in a room?
I think executive presence isone piece of the puzzle, one
piece of presence, but presenceactually is much broader in this
(02:14):
day and age to really be bothhow and where you are seen.
So you want to make sure thatyou are exuding presence, you
have executive presence, right?
That's one piece.
But it's also important to makesure that you have presence on
platforms like LinkedIn, thatyou have a strong virtual and
video presence, that you havepresence when you lead meetings,
when you advocate for yourselfeven in a Slack or teams
(02:37):
channel, the way you talk withyour coworkers.
And so I think presence hasreally become much broader and.
It's really important to beintentional about how and where
you are seen, making sure youare seen by the right people in
the right places as well.
And hopefully this isencouraging for people who might
feel like, oh, I'm not anexecutive, or I don't have that
(02:59):
natural charisma gravitas.
While your presence can reallybe built across all these
different things to build youroverall unforgettable presence.
matthew_1_03-14-2025_1104 (03:08):
Maybe just sharing your thoughts once
a week.
I haven't figured it out yet.
How do you convince people theimportance of that and how that.
Integrates into the overallpresence that you're talking
about.
lorraine-k--lee_1_03-14-2 (03:19):
sure.
I call LinkedIn our modernvirtual office, our virtual
water cooler, and our virtuallanding page, linkedIn is often
the place that people will go tofirst to assess how credible you
are to understand yourbackground and who you are.
When we get those messages andwe're not sure, is this person
real, are they not?
(03:39):
We clicked through theirprofile, right?
We're making these snapjudgments and when I was an
editor at LinkedIn, so I waspart of the team that brought
content to the platform.
I get it.
It is very nerve wracking.
It's scary.
Even when I was at LinkedIn Iwas very nervous.
Posting on the platform,ironically.
But to your point, like itdoesn't have to be.
You don't have to be a quoteunquote content creator.
(04:00):
You don't have to haveaspirations to become an
influencer.
You really have to think aboutit as what is the image that you
want to show the world, andshare with the world?
What is the expertise like?
What do you want to be knownfor?
And so LinkedIn is very powerfulfor that, right?
People go to your page to assesssocial proof, to see your
credibility.
And so to your point, Matthewposting.
(04:22):
I actually like to say likereally lower your expectations,
like post once a month, likethat's your goal once a month
and you can do once a month.
And then you're gonna realize,oh, it's not too bad.
Maybe I'll go twice a month.
And you pick up like that.
You want it to be somethingsustainable.
It shouldn't be something thattires you out or burns you out,
but I think.
When you start, the more you putinto the platform, you will see
(04:44):
all these benefits that comeyour way.
People are gonna be reaching outfor opportunities even if you're
working at a company, right?
This happened to me.
People saw me as more of theface of, they saw me as more of
a leader.
'cause they're like, wow, she'sputting herself out there on
LinkedIn.
And I got tapped foropportunities internally because
people saw me posting onLinkedIn and some of my.
(05:05):
Best friends and greatestcollaborators like I've met
through LinkedIn, starting offas strangers.
Haven't even met some of them inperson.
There's just so much goodnessthat comes from it, and I know
it's scary.
I know it's uncomfortable, butthat's usually my pitch.
matthew_1_03-14-2025_1104 (05:17):
Let's talk a little bit about hard
work because I love hard work.
However, doesn't get you as faras a lot of people think It
should, and I it's good for youto work hard and be but it's
also a flawed approach if that'sall you're doing to get ahead.
What should people also have ontheir radar to move up in their
career?
lorraine-k--lee_1_03-14-20 (05:37):
Yeah you bring up a really important
point in that I think a lot ofus think that hard work.
Is going to be what gets uspromoted, what gets us to that
next level.
And hard work is reallyimportant and you want to have a
good reputation and be someonewho knows how to actually do the
work.
I had the pleasure ofinterviewing nearly three dozen
experts from my book.
Danielle Pink is one of themfive times, New York Times
(05:59):
bestselling author, and he says80% of what you're known for
should be that you work hard,you do great work, you have
great output, but.
20%.
That's the really critical piecethat we don't get taught that
will allow us to showcase ourwork, that people know who we
are, that they know what we'redoing.
Because if you're just workingheads down at your desk and no
(06:21):
one ever sees it what's it allfor?
matthew_1_03-14-2025_1104 (06:23):
Yeah.
lorraine-k--lee_1_03-14-20 (06:23):
it's not gonna get you so far.
And knowing how to advocate foryour work, knowing how to
tactfully promote yourself, howto build those relationships,
and how to really lift your headup from the desk right is so
critical in allowing you toadvance and really be known in
your workplace.
matthew_1_03-14-2025_1104 (06:39):
Yeah, and I think an example of that,
when you talk about your work,obviously people don't like
someone who's I work so hard.
lorraine-k--lee_1_03-14-2 (06:45):
Yeah.
matthew_1_03-14-2025_110458 (06:46):
For the company I'm number one.
But when you can frame itinstead of, I did.
It's 82% more work than mycoworkers last month, or my
peers, whatever, who's sayingthat is a, my work led to a 38%
increase in revenue for mydepartment, or 38%.
In savings, right?
It could be a thousand differentSo making your hard work, your
output about the company thatyou work for, your organization
(07:08):
versus just yourself,
lorraine-k--lee_1_03-14-2 (07:10):
Yeah.
matthew_1_03-14-2025_110458 (07:10):
me that's a way to positively frame
it that people will accept rightas Oh, that's great.
It sounds like your missionoriented with the company wow, I
wish we had someone like thathere.
I wish I had an employee thatnot only had the mindset.
To do that, but also the ability
lorraine-k--lee_1_03-14-202 (07:24):
you bring up a great point.
Like anytime you can tie yourresults to the company's bottom
line, no one's ever gonna thinkthat's bragging.
Leadership will love to hearthat you're impacting the bottom
line.
So framing it like that isreally great.
And then I think also anotherangle that you can take is, let
me share my learnings from whatI did.
And now you're being helpful.
And especially like me as anintrovert, it's very hard to
(07:45):
talk about ourselves, talk aboutour work.
Let me frame it as an, oh, Ilearned this thing, or we tried
this, and hopefully other teamscan learn from that and apply it
to their own work as well.
So that's another strategy thatyou can try that I think is
maybe a little bit morecomfortable, especially to the
introverts, but still gets theword out about what you're
doing.
matthew_1_03-14-2025_11045 (08:04):
When I was an executive recruiter
running my own firm, I got tohave a lot of really interesting
conversations.
one of'em that struck me when Iwas preparing for our call is
there's a man I was talking to,I think he was probably late
forties, early fifties, veryhighly paid executive at a
medium sized company.
Very like the kind of personpeople are like, wow, I want
(08:24):
that someday you, I can buyanything, all that.
one of the things he said to me.
is, I don't feel like anyoneever sees me.
And it wasn't because he wantedmore attention, it was because
in a room, he wouldn't look likethe power executive in movies.
He was, unassuming, not tryingto impress people.
He said, I feel like I'minvisible and no one really is
interested in me or my work,and.
(08:47):
I say that maybe some peoplelistening can relate, but I say
that because even executiveswanna stand out to executives
and there are people who get 99%of the attention in a room and
things like that.
And I'm not always superimpressed with those people.
A lot of times it's a whole lotof talk and not a whole lot of
action, right?
lorraine-k--lee_1_03-14-2 (09:05):
Yeah.
matthew_1_03-14-2025_110458 (09:06):
is self-promotion more than doing
lorraine-k--lee_1_03-14-20 (09:08):
Talk about substance.
matthew_1_03-14-2025 (09:09):
Executives wanna stand out to executives
and of course people who aremoving up in their career even
more so when they get thosecouple seconds with an
executive, when you get to meetsomeone at a networking event,
we all wanna stand out toexecutives.
So what would you say are thetop practical ways for folks to
make a strong and lastingimpression on executives?
lorraine-k--lee_1_03-14-202 (09:31):
One thing that I would definitely
start working on is somethingthat I call A-U-P-I-A unique and
powerful introduction.
And this is not just, hi, I amLorraine.
I'm on the marketing team,right?
It's, hi, I'm Lorraine.
I work on the editorial team.
And what that means is we workwith a lot of business
influencers to create contentand I'm really excited we just
(09:54):
came out with this, campaign andgive a little bit detail.
Because like you said, sometimesyou only have a few minutes or a
minute, like a very short amountof time to share more about who
you are, and so that also has anadded benefit.
Now the executive knows a littlebit more about you.
You've given them some context,and now there's something they
can grasp onto to continue theconversation versus, hi, I'm
Lorraine.
I'm in marketing.
(10:15):
Okay, now what?
matthew_1_03-14-2025_11045 (10:16):
What are some essentials for standing
out and being professional on avideo call besides not wearing
your pajamas?
lorraine-k--lee_1_03-14 (10:25):
There's two things that come to mind for
me.
So the first is turning offautopilot small talk, which is
very common, especially on videocalls, because what happens when
we're on video calls is we'reusually at home.
We're more relaxed, we're inback to back virtual meetings.
We're tired.
We're going to get on a call andwe're gonna go into the How are
you?
I'm good.
How are you?
(10:45):
I'm good too.
That's like such a missedopportunity if you're talking to
an executive.
So when you break out of theautopilot conversations and it
doesn't take much, it's smalltweaks.
Instead of how was your weekend?
You might ask what was thehighlight of your weekend?
And then when they ask youquestions, offer up something
besides good.
If they ask, how are you can saygood and say, oh, I just
finished listening to thispodcast.
Or I was able to go on a runthis weekend just providing
(11:08):
something a little bit more.
It's a concept calledconversational threading, where
you're giving threads that theycan pull from.
And also asking questions thatallow them to give you threads.
So that will allow you toconnect much more easily and
build those relationships at thestart of a call.
Again, with not very much time.
And then the second thing Iwould say is you have to be
really intentional about yourvirtual and video presence.
(11:30):
I see you, Matthew, you have areally nice setup.
Like I know you have thelighting, you have your
background like.
matthew_1_03-14-2025_110458 (11:35):
I try really hard
lorraine-k--lee_1_03-14-2 (11:36):
Yeah, you thought about it, right?
And you look professional.
Now imagine I'm getting on acall and you're the executive
and I'm in a dark room, or I'mon my laptop and it's like going
at a weird angle, or I looksuper small on screen or too big
on screen.
It just, doesn't leave a goodimpression.
And so just be thoughtful aboutI call it the T methods or tech.
(11:56):
Energy and aesthetics on a call.
So that's, a bunch of differentfactors, but thinking through
method and those things that youneed to think about before you
get on a call to make sureyou're showing up well, that
also, subconsciously orotherwise, will leave a strong
impression.
And if you're only, interactingor mostly interacting on video,
these are key moments you wantto take advantage of.
matthew_1_03-14-2025_110458 (12:15):
Do you have frameworks that
listeners can connect with, sothey can work on their own UPI
or you mentioned something else,
lorraine-k--lee_1_03-14-202 (12:22):
The team method.
Yes.
Yes the book will have all ofthat in there, but there are
some pre-order bonuses as wellif people want to grab those.
And then I do have freeresources on my website as well.
So if you go to lorrainekaylee.com you'll find free
resources amongst a bunch ofdifferent topics that you can
grab.
matthew_1_03-14-2025_11045 (12:38):
What are some strategies for
introverts to visibility whileremaining comfortable and being
themselves?
lorraine-k--lee_1_03-14- (12:46):
That's a important question.
I am an introvert.
And yeah, I can be reallyuncomfortable, but I think what
introverts have to remember isthat introverts have a lot of
strength.
There's a ton of introvertsuperpowers.
We just have to tap into them.
So for example, in a meeting, Imight not be super comfortable
jumping in and figuring out whento unmute, but I'm a strong
(13:09):
writer.
And so I can write my thoughtsin the chat, or perhaps after
the call is over, I can justthink a little bit more and send
a summary or connect the dots insome way in a way that others
aren't able to.
So leaning into strengths likethat I think is very important.
And the thing about introvertsis because you're not always
talking, when you do talk,people listen.
(13:29):
So that's also very powerful andsomething to remember.
Introverts also are really goodat relationship building.
So that's also something to keepin mind, work, productivity just
all the things that come out ofyour work influence, right?
All these things that we want ina professional setting come from
relationships.
So you might not feelcomfortable in a big, happy
hour, but schedule thoseone-on-one meetings to connect
(13:51):
with others to get buy-inperhaps before the big meeting.
That will take you very far.
And yeah, the relationships arethe foundation, I feel like of
the office.
So that's such a superpower.
I think that introverts have.
matthew_1_03-14-2025_110458 (14:05):
All of these factors of improving
presence and having it, none ofthat really matters if you don't
talk to anybody.
I think what coincides with thisis networking events and I'll
share really honestly.
So like my very first job, likereal job was selling newspaper
ads for business journal, andpart of that was going to.
(14:25):
Every networking event ever.
I've talked about it before onthe podcast, a lot of networking
events, it just so happened thata lot of the top CEOs and the
companies, business owners verypowerful people were also at a
lot of these networking events.
Not all of'em, but many of them.
And I remember my feeling, to beperfectly honest, is like I am
the very.
Bottom of the totem pole, of thelist of people that who a
(14:46):
conversation matters for thisFortune 500 CEO that's in the
room.
I love to meet them.
I'm not gonna try and sell themsomething.
I'd love to come up and say hi,I admire your work whatever.
I would also have this feelingthere should be a line of 500
other people that theirconversation matters more than
mine.
For listeners, anyone, hopefullythat can relate to that or
hopefully you've never felt thatway, but I know I felt that way
(15:06):
early in my career.
What are some practical ways toreframe that self-doubt and
build an authentic confidence totalk to people, whether it's a
CEO or just whoever happens tobe next to you in a room.
lorraine-k--lee_1_03-14-2025_ (15:21):
I think sometimes it can get very
nerve wracking.
Trying to approach strangers.
And I think a lot of it is likewe, we can build it up in our
head, right?
And we have to remembereveryone's a person.
And I think this is especiallytrue with executives because it
is very easy to psych yourselfout when you're talking to
someone more senior.
So remembering that we're allpeople, we all have, shared
experiences in some way.
(15:43):
And I think that's a veryhelpful grounding thing to do.
If you're nervous talking topeople, it's helpful as well.
Some strategies that might workare bringing an extroverted
buddy with you or someone whoknows other people in the room
who can help facilitateintroductions.
Sometimes it's just aboutbreaking the ice.
That's the hardest part.
So having someone there to dothat is really helpful.
(16:03):
And then one thing that's workedreally well for me actually is.
Finding or getting the attendeelist ahead of time.
And then finding them all onLinkedIn.
Adding them on LinkedIn.
And I remember I did this a fewmonths ago and someone actually
came up to me, they were like,oh you added me on LinkedIn.
And so that was just so easy.
Like people were coming up to mebecause not a lot of people do
that.
(16:24):
I think that's a really greatway to stand out and then have
that breaking the ice momentwhen people are coming to you.
matthew_1_03-14-2025_110458 (16:29):
The risk is doing this without a
plan, am I gonna have a presenceof the funny person or the
confident person or the knowseverything person or whatever.
And maybe those are all badideas, by the way.
I think not having a plan or avision.
For your brand could leave yougoing in circles on this and
maybe trying out differentpersonas, which is probably
natural, but also not lead youto an end goal.
(16:53):
Is there a strategy of howpeople can start building one.
lorraine-k--lee_1_03-14-2025_ (16:57):
I created something called the
Epic Career Brand Framework.
Because to your point, when youthink of brand, you're like,
where do I start?
And so EPIC stands forexperiences personality,
identity and community.
And so experiences you can takethat from your professional
life, from your personal life.
Personality.
I'm more introverted, forexample.
(17:17):
I'm perhaps more serious.
Versus playful.
So just understanding thedifferent, what you bring to the
table, your personalityidentity, that can be your
cultural background.
It can be your values, forexample, for me, relationships
are super important at work, andI find it very important to
follow through on what I say I'mgoing to do.
So that's something that I wantto be known for.
(17:38):
And the C which is perhaps oneof the more important pieces
that people forget about is yourcommunity.
When you create your brand andyou start thinking about
formulating your brand, it'sgreat as a first step, but if
your community is not seeing youthe way that you want to be
perceived, then there's adisconnect that you have to fix.
So sometimes if perhaps yourbrand is too aspirational and
(17:58):
you're up here and yourcommunity seeing you down here,
you have to maybe.
Progress a little bit more alongthe way, and your brand can
change over time and transformdepending on life stage and
career goals and all that.
But that's a helpful frameworkto start thinking through.
Okay, what makes me special?
What do I value and what do Iwanna put out into the world?
matthew_1_03-14-2025_110458 (18:16):
Can you tell us a little bit more
about why you wrote the book itsounds like an incredible amount
of time and energy went intoresearching and planning and
writing it.
lorraine-k--lee_1_03-14-2 (18:26):
Wrote the book because, and I think
similar to you, like I wannahelp people avoid the mistakes,
the challenges that I had to gothrough.
And it's the guide essentiallythat I wish I had when I was
earlier on in my career I talkabout this story at the
beginning.
I was a founding editor atLinkedIn, you mentioned at the
start.
And I loved my job at LinkedIn.
I loved my coworkers.
(18:46):
I worked on really big projects.
My coworkers really liked me.
But as hard as I tried, I couldnot figure out how to get
promoted from that mid-level tothat senior level, and I just,
it was so frustrating because Iknew I had all this potential
and I just didn't know how toget others to see it.
And so this book helps thosereally ambitious professionals.
(19:09):
The high potential leaders gofrom overlooked and feeling
perhaps unseen to unforgettable.
And my goal with this book is toreally break down all the
elements of presence, like Imentioned earlier, it's your
presentations, it's how you leadmeetings, it's how you
communicate, advocate foryourself, show up on LinkedIn,
et cetera, et cetera.
And provide a really clearroadmap about how you can exude
(19:32):
a really strong presence in allthose areas.
And then that creates yourunforgettable presence.
So it's, again, it's not justthe executive presence, but it's
how can I be really intentionalbuild on the already great work
I'm doing right?
Like everyone who's reading thisbook is probably already doing a
wonderful job at executing, buthow can I now just make some
tweaks to uplevel to that nextplace?
matthew_1_03-14-2025_110458 (19:53):
If someone reads it,
lorraine-k--lee_1_03-14-2 (19:54):
Yeah,
matthew_1_03-14-2025_110 (19:54):
what's one thing that you are confident
it will make a positive impacton in their career?
lorraine-k--lee_1_03- (20:01):
hopefully so many things.
But I would say probably one ofthe more impactful ones that
take.
Less amount of work, I think isa virtual presence.
It's funny because sometimespeople are like virtual presence
haven't we all figured it out bynow?
And I'm like, no.
I'm sure Matthew, you've been oncalls too, where you're like, oh
gosh.
(20:22):
Like they're not, they're notthinking about it at all, or
they're like looking off.
matthew_1_03-14-2025_110458 (20:25):
Did they forget the cameras
lorraine-k--lee_1_03-14-2 (20:26):
Yeah,
matthew_1_03-14-2025_11045 (20:26):
what I like.
lorraine-k--lee_1_03-1 (20:27):
Exactly.
Yeah, so I think I do feel likevirtual presence has such big
potential to really influencehow people perceive you.
And it doesn't take too much tooptimize that and practice being
better at that.
And that's not just like the wayyou look on camera, right?
But also at, hand gestures, yourfacial expressions the way you
start off calls, the way youlead calls, all those different
(20:47):
aspects.
matthew_1_03-14-2025_110458 (20:50):
As I said in the introduction,
career growth doesn't typicallyhappen magically, and you, when
you're listening, you probablyhave some level of presence, but
I guarantee it can be better.
So if there's no magic and ifit's not just hard work, it's
things like this and you have toinvest in your career to get
there.
So I would highly recommend youget a copy of the book.
(21:12):
Can you remind me when it comesout
lorraine-k--lee_1_03-14-2025 (21:13):
Or so it's out April 22nd and you
can buy it on Amazon, Barnes andNoble pretty much wherever you
get your books.
And then if you pre-order thebook unforgettable presence
book.com, you can visit thatpage and upload your pre-order
receipt and get a lot of extrabonuses and goodies.
matthew_1_03-14-2025_110458 (21:30):
I'm going to buy it.
lorraine-k--lee_1_03-14-2 (21:30):
Thank you.
matthew_1_03-14-2025_11045 (21:31):
It's a huge advantage you can have
against the competition, whetherit be for a promotion or a job
interview or anything else.
Before we sign off, can youleave our listeners with some
final words of wisdom ormotivation?
lorraine-k--lee_1_03-14-2025_ (21:46):
I would love your listeners to
know that presence is somethingthat all of us can cultivate and
grow and strengthen.
I am confident that afterreading the book you are going
to feel more confident andexcited to really hone these
skills.
And like you said, like the softskills, especially in this age
of ai, like that's gonna be thespecial part of you, the part
(22:07):
that helps differentiate you andhelps you.
Grow your career and become morefuture proof.
So I'm excited for everyone tocheck it out.
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Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!