January 21, 2025 • 31 mins
Connect with Thomas:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/tompowner/
https://www.careerthinker.com/
Thomas Powner, founder of Career Thinker, shares how to transform your job search into a powerful career marketing campaign. With 25+ years in sales, operations, and HR, Thomas offers practical advice to help job seekers stand out and succeed.
Key Takeaways:
- Career Marketing Campaign: Position yourself as a solution to employers’ challenges using strategic branding, networking, and LinkedIn optimization.
- Resume Tips: Write impactful CAR (Challenge, Action, Result) bullet points to showcase results and bypass ATS systems.
- LinkedIn Optimization: Use your profile to highlight your brand, career history, and skills with storytelling and keywords.
- Salary Negotiation: Know your worth, research salary ranges, and confidently advocate for competitive offers.
- Interview Strategies: Avoid common pitfalls, prepare behavioral answers, and turn interviews into engaging conversations.
https://moveupcareers.com/strategycall
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-job-interview-experience/id1538223546
https://moveupcareers.com/survey
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
matthew_1_04-26-2024_10 (00:01):
Welcome to the job interview experience.
If you are ready to ditch yourtraditional job search and
Launch a winning careermarketing campaign.
Please stay tuned because afterworking for more than 25 years
in sales.
Business operations and humanresources.
Thomas Powner switched careers13 years ago and founded career
(00:24):
thinker.
Career thinker has become aboutique company with a
recruitment and career servicesside where they help people just
like you prepare for their nextcareer move.
The career thinker team offerssolutions for creating resumes
that bypass hiring ATStechnology, which is one of the
biggest roadblocks in all of jobseeking and also appeal to the
(00:49):
human hiring teams leading tointerviews.
And job offers.
Thomas, thanks for being here.
tom-powner_1_04-26-2024_ (00:55):
Thanks for having me.
I'm excited to have thisconversation with you and your
audience.
matthew_1_04-26-2024_10080 (00:59):
when I was wanting to bring you on
the show, I saw your backgroundin sales and in my mind.
Aspects of sales are soimportant for a successful job
search.
connecting your skills andselling them to the company as a
solution to their problem.
Instead of just pitching whatyou want out of the whole thing,
pitching how you help them.
And I was excited to bring thatexperience you have and how
(01:20):
you've brought that into thecareer world.
So can you give us a briefoverview of that career?
And you worked in a coupledifferent verticals and how that
led you to where you are today.
tom-powner_1_04-26-2024_110 (01:31):
The sales part of Who I am, my DNA
right now, but my professionalDNA started when I was a kid,
watching my father in businesswhen I went and worked with him
during the summer.
And that established a lot of myfoundation.
So every job I've had, it's beensales, business operations,
retail, import, export,wholesale.
Sales has always been part of mydomain.
(01:53):
It's what I'm in charge of.
And then the businessoperations, but when it really
came down to it, it was thepeople I always led large teams
anywhere from 30 to 500 peopleand plus so the people
leadership became my 2nd DNAstrand that really helped me be
successful.
I got to a certain point to passcompany works for me.
I love the company.
(02:14):
I'm there for 11 and a halfyears, making really great
money.
They love me.
I love my clients.
I love the teams.
I led just a job with literallykilling me the pressure, the
hours.
So it's a yin yang there.
And I decided after having someKidney stone problems.
A little personal here.
72 stones in four years and mydoctor kept saying it's stress.
(02:35):
I never believed them.
Finally when I decided to shiftmy career, do something
different and resign fromcorporate America and go into my
own business, I haven't had astone in 14, almost 14 years.
So go figure.
Yeah, that was one of the majorreasons and then my mom had
passed away in that last year incorporate America and that made
me reevaluate my life.
(02:56):
So sometimes when we make thosecareer decisions it's a lot of
different factors behind thatsometimes.
matthew_1_04-26-2024_100804 (03:01):
You took the leap and it paid off
and the doctor was right all
tom-powner_1_04-26-2024_110 (03:04):
Yes yeah, I did take the leap and
did something totally different.
I always had the idea of careerthink in my head, and I figured
I would do that when I retire aslike a side gig.
I put that plan into, fastforward 20 years ahead of time.
matthew_1_04-26-2024_10 (03:20):
propose a career marketing campaign.
I love that.
Can you elaborate on thatconcepts and provide some
actionable tips for job seekersimplement that approach,
tom-powner_1_04-26-2024_110 (03:30):
And it is a career marketing
campaign.
And one of the reasons for thatis recruiters don't need to
wafer resumes anymore.
They could go out and findpeople.
And where they find them isLinkedIn.
LinkedIn is nothing likeLinkedIn out there.
I know companies try toduplicate it, no one has yet.
So even our recruiting, werecruit for four companies, two
companies don't even post jobs.
(03:51):
I haven't posted a job in fiveyears.
Find a talent for LinkedIn.
So when you put all that into abubble, it's a career marketing
campaign.
Because you want to get found.
You want people to network onyour behalf.
You want people to share yourdocuments, your LinkedIn
profile.
And then you also want to applyfor jobs as standard methods
haven't gone away.
But there's other ways toconnect the job.
So when you look at that, It's acareer marketing campaign.
(04:13):
And one of the reasons I reallysay that now, because when I
started doing recruiting andreading resumes and hiring, I've
hired my whole career, but Inoticed that most resumes are
not selling anything.
They're not selling the personbehind the resume.
When I read a resume, especiallywhen I read the bullet points in
the career experience, I want toknow your accomplishments, your
contributions, what did you dothat produces results?
(04:36):
And we all have value companies.
When you don't see your valueand you don't brag about it, no
one's going to do that for you.
So I really learned early incareer thinking that creating a
career marketing campaign andselling your value.
over selling your function is ahuge difference.
And that speaks very well to thehuman reader.
And even during job interviewsif I have to spend a lot of time
(04:58):
in discovery mode, what I meanby that in job interviews, I
have to discover your solutions,your successes, your KPIs.
I shouldn't waste any timeduring a job interview.
When I see that on a resume, myquestion is a lot more
intelligent.
How long did it take you to dothat?
What was some of the pushbackwhen you implemented this?
Who did you get on your team tohelp you do that?
(05:18):
Those are better questions andyou know the answer to those
questions.
So when you construct yourresume in LinkedIn, like a
career marketing campaign, iteven helps land more job
interviews, better job interviewquestions, and hopefully leading
to better salaries.
matthew_1_04-26-2024_100804 (05:33):
So the typical job seeker will put
together a good resume and applyfor jobs, submit that resume.
That's not a career marketingcampaign.
What would be somedifferentiators and action steps
to someone that's activelylaunching a career marketing
campaign?
tom-powner_1_04-26-2024_110 (05:51):
One of the first things you Have to
come up with your professional,personal brand.
Sometimes they overlap.
And that branding message is.
Starting out the resume it's inthe branded headlining LinkedIn
profile, so it's hard to createthat two to three line value
proposition message or brandingmessage, but that's what starts
off the conversation.
It's like your elevated pitchcondensed into two lines.
(06:13):
So even on a resume, typicallywe have a professional summary
and some people seem to forgetabout it.
They feel, oh, Nobody wants toread the professional summary.
Recruiter is not the only personlooking at your resume.
The hiring manager, talentacquisition manager, next boss,
and sometimes the C suite.
So everyone reads the resumedifferently.
So the professional summary, Istill do that on resumes, but
(06:34):
part of the first part of thesummary, I call the resume
handshake.
And that's where you establishyour branding message.
You value proposition message.
The name of the job.
You're applying for and top fiveto eight subject matter experts,
keywords that describe that, andthat will get read in the first
three to five seconds.
So that's where the.
Marketing comes.
Market your value first in yourbranding statement.
matthew_1_04-26-2024_100804 (06:58):
In your opinion on those resumes,
What are some common resumemistakes that job seekers make
and that they should avoid?
tom-powner_1_04-26-2024 (07:06):
There's quite a few of them, but the
biggest one, put everything elseaside.
When I look at your careerhistory I'm typically going to
look at the job title, the date,and I'm going to dive into the
bullet points.
Now, typically there's aparagraph explaining the role.
That's valuable information, butthat won't get read first.
We're going to dive into thebullet points.
We're not going to read onebullet point and read all ten
(07:26):
down straight.
But when we read a bullet point.
If it sounds like a jobfunction.
And that's what it is.
If it's not sharing value,that's what it should be doing.
So how we write resume bulletpoints, we want to tell quick
cause stories.
CAR, it's just super simple, butit works extremely well.
What was the challenge you'refacing in the position, which
(07:46):
can mean main responsibility toa new project, a new client what
action, skill and action you putin place to solve that challenge
and what were the results?
Whether the result isquantitative or not, but what
were the results, the outcome,the contribution.
And then when you write thatbullet point on the resume, you
put the car in reverse.
Every single bullet point.
The first three to five wordsspeaks about an outcome,
(08:07):
followed by a skill in action.
So every time you read everysingle bullet point, Aha, this
is what they did, look what theydid, look what they did, instead
of look what they were supposedto do.
Big difference.
And that's probably the biggestchallenge we have with the
resumes.
matthew_1_04-26-2024_100804 (08:20):
I love that.
And then your action and theresult.
if you could sum up what aresume should look like, that's
it.
Results, outcomes, not day today, not, you know, manage team
of 30, okay, that tells menothing.
Were you a good manager?
Were you a bad manager?
team perform?
Was it the worst performing teamin the company?
they see that the job they'reapplying for, if they're even
tailoring their resume,experience managing 10 plus
(08:43):
people.
So they put managed team of 30.
Great.
I got it.
That's perfect.
That's telling them that I'moverqualified.
That tells me nothing.
my assumption can be that thatwas as much bad team management
as good.
And so you put the result, whatwas the challenge of the team?
What actions did you take toelevate the team's performance?
What was the result?
Department wide, even bettercompany wide.
(09:04):
How did you impact the bottomline?
How did you do this or that?
I really like that car.
Thank you for sharing that.
tom-powner_1_04-26-2024_1 (09:10):
Yeah, and when you write the car on a
resume, you put the car inreverse, You start at results,
then the action and you justleave off the challenge because
it's perceived by the results.
And you can make nice short oneline, sometimes two line bullet
points that are really hardhidden.
And as you've done recruitingand hiring, so you know you have
limited time.
You have, a couple hundredresumes in the database if you
(09:32):
need to go back to it.
matthew_1_04-26-2024_1008 (09:34):
Yeah.
Thank you for clarifying,reversing the car too.
And that makes sense.
show the best part first, right?
Which is the results.
Because challenges areimportant, but if there's no
result for the challenge, itdoesn't really matter.
It just means you were,Challenge like we all were.
So start, with the spicy stuff,right?
the numbers, the data, theoutcome.
tom-powner_1_04-26-2024_110 (09:51):
And if you have a lot of bullet
points, depending on what typeof role you have, one section
called operational enhancements,one by people in leadership, and
then another section of bulletpoints called the bottom line or
the numbers.
And you have these subheadingsand you break up the continuity
of me just seeing a bulletpoint, my eye would go to a
heading I'm attracted to.
matthew_1_04-26-2024_100804 (10:12):
So we now have the format for a
really powerful resume and wehave the right information, but
we still have the roadblock ofthe ATS system.
what's happening with those andwhat do people commonly do on
their resume that getseverything screwed up?
tom-powner_1_04-26-2024_110 (10:27):
The format does matter.
And it's no rocket scientist.
It's just very straightforwardas far as section headings.
So the ATS system could read theresume.
A lot of resume scoring comesacross the keywords on a resume.
But these ATS systems today withdictionary, they're all cloud
based.
Most of them updated instantly.
You get a lot of keywordassociation credit for.
(10:47):
So that gets into the resume.
Okay.
Relevancy score.
I call it a relevancy scorebecause you can sort out resumes
based on different things in theATS system.
But I think people just thinkkeyword stuffing is all you need
to do.
So they just take all thekeywords and just stuff them in
their resume.
I've even been, I've been Iguess it's three or four times a
month where someone takes a jobposting, they copy it, the whole
(11:09):
job posting, and they go down tothe bottom of the resume, font
size one, and they put it inwhite, and the whole job posting
is in two lines of the resume.
Yeah, we see that mostrecruiters will.
So just follow the simpleinstructions for the format,
making sure you have a jobdescription, make sure you do
(11:31):
have the key skills, and thinkabout what the system does.
The typical job post has about39 key words between the hard
skills, soft skills, andtechnical skills.
So if they're looking for 39combined and you only have 10.
Why would they really want tointerview you?
They don't know you yet.
They don't know you have theseother skills that you didn't put
on a resume that would berelevant.
(11:52):
So if the skills aren't there,the ATS system and a human being
is going to assume you don'thave them.
Now as human beings, we canconnect to the, type of company
you work for.
We might know people that workedat your past company.
ATS system has no emotion whenit comes to that.
So none of the emotional harminghappens So just make sure you
match your job.
(12:12):
And again, if you don't matchyour job, then maybe networking
is going to be another way youcan get your resume in front of
the right hiring people.
matthew_1_04-26-2024_1 (12:19):
Speaking of networking, what are some
strategies job seekers can useto optimize their LinkedIn?
profile and attract recruitersor potential employers.
tom-powner_1_04-26-2024_11 (12:30):
Good question.
I guess I probably spent fivehours talking about that.
I actually teach a nationalcourse on LinkedIn for the
resume writing industry calledthe NCULP course.
So we do a deep dive into how todo this.
We have to send your LinkedInprofile, should you be your
resume and steroids?
Cause you have a lot moreopportunity to share a lot more
about you, the person and yourcareer.
All together, 17 differentsections of the profile.
(12:52):
When it comes down to LinkedIn,there's nothing but a huge
database.
When the right data which arekeywords on your resume, that's
when you get found more often inLinkedIn Recruiter.
That's when LinkedIn knows whatjobs to suggest to you.
So a lot goes into that, somaking sure you have the right
stories and the right data.
The career experience in mybook, and that's what I
practiced for the past 14 years,should be a close mirror to your
(13:14):
resume, because that's yourcareer history.
So many people make the mistake,the career history is blank.
You're not a job title.
That doesn't define you.
It's what you've done in thatjob title in that company that
defines who you areprofessionally.
So leaving your career historyblank, all that key data, those
keywords, keyword density andkeyword diversity matters
usually in LinkedIn.
(13:35):
All that doesn't help you getfound.
LinkedIn just upped the keyskills section from 50 skills to
100 skills because they realizeda lot of new skills are out
there that they needed to dothat.
And it's been 50 for the, eversince LinkedIn.
And there's a lot of differentsections.
You got to get your brand intoyour profile.
You have an about page where youshould speak about yourself.
(13:55):
It used to be called the summarysection.
They changed it to the aboutsection because they want people
to speak about themselves.
So how do you lead teams towinning solutions?
Why do customers like workingfor you?
So whatever you do is for aliving.
Pick your top areas of.
competencies you need to haveand tell me how you have them.
So if you're in sales, how doyou drive top line sales?
(14:15):
How do you improve clientretention?
How do you train people on theproduct knowledge?
I want to know more about whatyou do and that's what really
resonates in the about section.
The branded headline underneathyour headshot, that's your brand
message.
You want to get your job titletarget in there, and you want to
get some keywords.
Because the keywords in theheadline, the keywords in your
(14:36):
job title line, and keywords inthe skills section, all get
indexed first by LinkedIn'salgorithms in search, and then
the rest of the content isindexed secondary.
So take advantage of thatknowledge, just make sure
everything's screaming who youare, and I'm seeing a person in
your career.
So a lot of people just leave alot off in the LinkedIn.
matthew_1_04-26-2024_100804 (14:56):
I like how you differentiated
between about in summary becausemy observation is job seekers
are really bad at The summary,because they just rewrite the
resume or rewrite what, what youwill see below on the LinkedIn
profile, just using the wordabout which shifts your mind
from, okay, how do I say I have10 years and marketing at this
company?
Just like you'll see below,right?
tom-powner_1_04-26-202 (15:17):
Exactly.
matthew_1_04-26-2024_10080 (15:17):
tell us about that, right?
Very open ended.
But using that, I think, willhelp people write something more
intriguing when you shift yourmindset that way.
tom-powner_1_04-26-2024_1 (15:27):
Yeah, definitely.
And especially if you're hiringsomeone who needs to have
leadership.
Tell me how you lead your teams.
We have our clients take a diskleadership assessment.
Sometimes we incorporate thatinto the about section.
It's all about you, what youbring to the table.
matthew_1_04-26-2024_100804 (15:41):
You had to bring up the disc.
I love the disc.
we, unfortunately, don't havefive hours to talk today, but
I'm disc certified.
tom-powner_1_04-26-2024_1107 (15:47):
Me too.
matthew_1_04-26-2024_1008 (15:48):
think my audience is probably tired of
hearing me say that, how do youthink artificial intelligence is
changing the recruitinglandscape?
tom-powner_1_04-26-2024_11074 (15:56):
I love AI.
I gender of AI, because when youtalk about artificial
intelligence, that's been aroundfor five decades.
Gender of AI with the largelanguage model is, it's what's
new and hot right now.
I think it's pretty amazing.
I think we should use it toassist us, not to replace us.
Even in their own work, becauseI've just a quick thing.
I, at the end of the year, lastyear, I wanted to write a quick
(16:18):
blog post on some of the topartists that have passed on in
the past year.
So I asked chat, TPT gave me 10top artists that passed away in
2023.
So it gave me this list and it'sOh, cool.
I have all this information.
Three of the people were stillalive.
So they were included in sometype of blog post about, someone
else who died.
And again, it just gave me wronginformation.
(16:39):
Of course, Amy Winehouse knew,but there were some other
artists on there that were stillalive.
It's if I wrote that, howembarrassing.
So you always have to check AI.
But it's a smart assistant.
In creating a resume I've usedit.
I've only now I want to use itto get stuck out of a creative
moment I need because a lot ofinformation we're getting back
was not really correct.
So we allow AI are helpingpeople write their resume just
(17:02):
take it as a lead.
Don't just copy and paste itbecause I'm seeing that now.
I've interviewed five peoplelast month that I was reading
the bullet points and they werecalled bullet points, but they
didn't make sense.
And.
All five people, when I asked ifthey have AI helping them write
the resume, four of them saidyes.
And then I dig a little bitdeeper and a lot of information
(17:25):
just didn't make sense.
It wasn't incorrect.
It was just, it was wronginformation.
So you gotta be careful with it.
In the hiring, in the ATSsystems, AI has been around for
a while, but Genevieve AI isjust starting to come into the
applicant track and softwaresystems where we could get a
little more better understandingof the Of a full profile.
(17:45):
So it could take your resume,could take your LinkedIn.
It may even take some othersocial media platforms and come
up with a profile of how wellyou fit into the company.
So I think that part of AI wouldbe interesting.
Hopefully it's not going to leadto more discrimination, but
human discrimination, sometimesit's just subconscious.
So that's a whole differentargument or conversation.
(18:06):
But I do think AI would be ableto be more predictive.
Tom Powner would have 80 percentpredictive rate of being
successful in this role.
So it's going to understand thatthose type of factors where
sometimes as recruited hiringmanagers, we don't do that deep
thinking into that.
So I think that part of AI, whenthat starts rolling out into the
hiring process, would be prettypretty interesting to see.
matthew_1_04-26-2024_1008 (18:28):
Let's jump back to the human part.
You've interviewed thousands ofcandidates and I'm curious what
red flags you've noticed andpatterns you've noticed in
interviews and what pitfalls jobseekers should avoid.
tom-powner_1_04-2 (18:42):
Interviewing, oh, it's very different.
So many different stories.
Number one is just making surethe setting, the way you dress,
you're ready for the interview.
If you're doing a videointerview, what's behind you?
Don't risk taking a videointerview from Arby's parking
lot on lunch break.
It just doesn't work.
Give the interview the respectit needs.
(19:03):
So I think a lot of people startoff.
And the wrong place.
I had a woman the other day, shewas sitting in a rock and
recliner and she was going backand forth like this.
It's just, that's your firstimpression.
It's like walking into a roomand not doing a handshake.
So that's number one.
Number two I think a greatinterview is broken down to
several components.
Understanding your resume.
(19:24):
So you can speak intelligentlyabout any of those stories.
When they ask you a questionabout something, Oh, I don't
remember doing that, but it's onyour resume.
just doesn't work.
Behavioral questions.
We ask behavioral questionsbecause we want to see how you
behave in certain situations.
So always be prepared for ahandful of behavioral questions.
Questions about The company, ifyou don't know the company
(19:45):
interviewing with, when I'mhiring for other companies I'm a
third party recruiter, but Ididn't want someone a paycheck.
I want someone chasing acompany, a place where they can
spend 40, 50 hours a week.
If you don't get that good vibeduring a conversation and you
don't know anything about thecompany, I'm not just saying
what the company makes and howlong they've been in business,
really understand what thecompany does.
(20:05):
And a lot of information aboutcompanies connected to the
mission and vision statement.
I need to understand you believein it.
And the next one is about theinterview.
Today, if I'm interviewing you,check me out on LinkedIn, ask me
questions about my career.
If I'm working for the company,what made you join this company,
has been your experience overthe past five years.
Have those one on oneconversations because an
(20:25):
interview is conversations.
So many people think, and thenso many recruiters too, it's
like the firing off questionsjust to, check them off the
list.
And if that's what's happening,try to make it a conversation.
As an interviewee, which a lotof people just forget to do.
I threw a lot at you.
I'm sorry.
I didn't break it down.
matthew_1_04-26-2024_100 (20:44):
That's a great list.
Many listeners are currentlyconsidering a career change.
Do you have any advice forsomeone looking to switch
careers midstream?
tom-powner_1_04-26-2024_11 (20:55):
Yes.
Be prepared because it's gonnabe a little more difficult.
It's always easier to stay inthe same track, less resistance
and just easier flow on.
I'm proof of that.
I left a great paying job.
I was making really good moneyand the first year in business,
I went from making X amount ofdollars.
And you have to be prepared forthat sometimes even shifts in
careers.
I know you still get a paycheck,but one career math is a step
(21:18):
lower, and you might have adifferent paycheck.
So understand be prepared forthat watch time because even for
me making that career shift.
I probably should have done aseveral years ago.
It's like someone who's in avery bad relationship.
They knew, 10 years into the 15years marriage.
They should have got out andjust time happens very quickly.
So keep your eye on time.
Everything we do in life,because as I reach 60, I realize
(21:41):
time is something you can't getback.
So if you have this inkling andyou want to do something
different, you want to try outsomething the longer you wait,
sometimes the harder it gets.
So keep track of time and justmake, work out a plan, right?
A plan of where you see yourselfworking, what do you want to be
doing, what type of peopleyou're going to surround
yourself with, and just makesure that's the direction you
see yourself fitting into.
(22:02):
Different, but lots of timesit's about meeting people in
that industry or in that companyand make that toggle list and
then just put your plan intoaction.
But if you have this deep desireto do something, don't have
regrets in life.
We can make choices and theydon't work out.
That's fine.
But you made a choice.
So we don't make choices.
Those regrets, they just livedeep in yourself.
(22:24):
So don't have regrets.
Just do it.
Like Nike says, just do it.
matthew_1_04-26-2024_100804 (22:29):
I like that watch time too,
because nothing, when it comesto career change, it's unlikely
that anything will happen foryou.
And everything good that's goingto happen is going to be
something that you take actionsteps on and is probably uphill,
right?
Not the fun stuff.
You're not going to fall into apromotion with a completely
different job title or industry.
tom-powner_1_04-26-2024_110 (22:51):
And if it didn't work out life still
goes on.
You always go back if you wantto, but then you shift to a
different direction.
I like watching American Idol,and when you see a twenty eight
year old forklift driver who hadthis talent and just waited
eight years before he startedsinging, do it.
Just do it.
Life's too short not to dothings.
matthew_1_04-26-2024_1008 (23:13):
Let's talk about salary negotiation.
It's nerve wracking and peoplefeel like it's a lose, lose
situation.
What are some tips you can offerlisteners to ensure they,
Navigate the processprofessionally, but also get a
competitive offer.
tom-powner_1_04-26-2024_1107 (23:29):
It depends what the market's like
right now.
The companies have seemed tohave the power going back three
years ago.
Then the job seekers had thepower.
But salaries have been going upreadily over the past three to
four years.
In today's market, dependingwhere you are, I know in New
York City, New Jersey and stuff,the salaries by law in certain
cities have to be listed.
The salary range has to belisted.
(23:50):
Now, sadly, some companies have,I looked at a job post the other
day, salary range is 120 to 380.
What the hell?
Come on.
Let's be transparent about it.
But you could do enough researchto get a range of what the job
should be paying.
And as companies get morecomfortable sharing their
transparency with salaries, thatchallenge is going to be, less
difficult to come over.
But you have to know your worth.
(24:11):
Some people just don't seethemselves as worthy of a
certain salary.
And sometimes that could besomething that's embedded
Because of gender or somethingor where we live or the zip code
we live in.
So we have to understand whatwe're worth in each market.
And you have to do some researchfor that.
There's some good pay scale.
There's some good websites outthere that their businesses have
(24:32):
come up with salary bands.
They pay corporate America fordata, and that data is paid for,
and other companies buy thatdata.
So companies want to be in acertain salary band, nobody
wants to pay way over, andnobody wants to be way under in
corporate America, becauseyou'll lose people, or, you're
overpaying.
Companies do have salary bands.
They will pay more.
(24:52):
Most companies will aim for themid range of the band, so if the
salary says 120 to 160, They'regoing to probably aim for 140,
but they will go up to 150, 160for the right candidate.
So know your worth.
And when you write a resumethat's more of a marketing
campaign, your worth isscreaming off the page.
So they'll see the interviewwould translate into better
(25:14):
conversations about thosesuccess stories.
And when we're successful, Thebest way to show companies will
be successful for them is byshowing your success from your
past.
So a lot of that negotiationsometimes is not needed, but
don't settle on a bad salary.
And my husband was part of that.
he worked for TI Crest for 24years and then his first job
afterwards, we negotiate extra25, 000.
(25:36):
He was afraid to, but I coachedhim through it and that set him
off on the next salary band.
Everyone has different needs asfar as how do you negotiate.
Everyone's challenge can be alittle bit different.
But once you start withunderstanding your worth is
showcased on your RedmanLinkedIn, that's where the
salary offer starts from.
matthew_1_04-26-2024_100804 (25:53):
For listeners that have heard you
speak about car or LinkedInprofiles or just improving their
interview, creating a careermarketing campaign.
How can they learn more aboutyou, connect with you and move
forward to fast track thesethings and get a little bit
deeper understanding and getdeeper into the process with you
(26:14):
and career thinker.
tom-powner_1_04-26-2024_110 (26:15):
The best place to contact me or find
me is on LinkedIn.
That's where I live.
That's where my business lives.
That's where my clients live.
That's where recruiting lives.
That's where people network.
So there's so much going on theLinkedIn and Tom Powner, there's
only one other Tom Powner onLinkedIn, so it's not hard to
find me.
Just searching my last nameconnect with me.
I'm always willing to do a freereview of your resume on
(26:35):
LinkedIn.
And we could talk about, whereyou're, you could take your,
where you are now and make itmore marketable.
That's the easiest way to findme.
matthew_1_04-26-2024_100804 (26:44):
And I've said this before, but for
job seekers listening, tuningin, Whether you're an accountant
or in sales or a softwaredeveloper.
Thomas and I know that that'syour skill set and it's your
skill set probably isn't acareer marketing campaign or
writing a sentence into a resumereally well.
So I'd encourage you get incontact with Thomas and his team
(27:06):
and let a professional guide youthrough this.
it does make a big difference.
So we'll link to your.
LinkedIn profile and then we'llget some more links in that as
well so people can get incontact with you and learn more
about you and your resources.
Before we close here, do youhave any final words of
motivation or wisdom forlisteners as they're taking in
(27:27):
everything that you shared withthem and moving forward in their
job search?
tom-powner_1_04-26-2024_1 (27:31):
First of all, there's Almost endless
opportunities out there.
There's 5.
8 million jobs in the U.
S.
right now on LinkedIn and that'sjust on LinkedIn.
So understand there's just somany opportunities you can go
after so don't be closed in ifyou didn't get that one job you
have to stay positive.
You have to be consistent.
You have to keep working at itAnd then when you do find that
(27:52):
dream job Never take your footoff your marketing campaign
because that dream job might beyour dream for two years and
then it becomes a nightmare.
So always be prepared to acceptnew opportunities, be open
opportunities.
And when you need to go find anew opportunity, you're ready to
hit the ground running.
So many people, when I startedcareer thinking during the last
recession, 95 percent of myclients came to me.
(28:13):
No resume, no LinkedIn profile.
They would just not be prepared.
And life happens and we seem tohave not a long memory when it
comes to, calamities that happenin our careers.
So always be prepared and thendon't do it alone.
I know you mentioned, teaming upwith a professional, making that
investment in time and money toteam up with someone who's going
to, Get rid of all thatnegativity in your head and get
(28:34):
you the right track is worth it.
And again, if you get extra 10percent of your starting salary,
you get a salary you didn'tthink you deserved.
It pays for itself 10 timesover.
Welcome to the job interview experience.
If you are ready to ditch yourtraditional job search and
Launch a winning careermarketing campaign.
Please stay tuned because afterworking for more than 25 years
in sales.
Business operations and humanresources.
Thomas Powner switched careers13 years ago and founded career
(00:24):
thinker.
Career thinker has become aboutique company with a
recruitment and career servicesside where they help people just
like you prepare for their nextcareer move.
The career thinker team offerssolutions for creating resumes
that bypass hiring ATStechnology, which is one of the
biggest roadblocks in all of jobseeking and also appeal to the
(00:49):
human hiring teams leading tointerviews.
And job offers.
Thomas, thanks for being here.
tom-powner_1_04-26-2024_ (00:55):
Thanks for having me.
I'm excited to have thisconversation with you and your
audience.
matthew_1_04-26-2024_10080 (00:59):
when I was wanting to bring you on
the show, I saw your backgroundin sales and in my mind.
Aspects of sales are soimportant for a successful job
search.
connecting your skills andselling them to the company as a
solution to their problem.
Instead of just pitching whatyou want out of the whole thing,
pitching how you help them.
And I was excited to bring thatexperience you have and how
(01:20):
you've brought that into thecareer world.
So can you give us a briefoverview of that career?
And you worked in a coupledifferent verticals and how that
led you to where you are today.
tom-powner_1_04-26-2024_110 (01:31):
The sales part of Who I am, my DNA
right now, but my professionalDNA started when I was a kid,
watching my father in businesswhen I went and worked with him
during the summer.
And that established a lot of myfoundation.
So every job I've had, it's beensales, business operations,
retail, import, export,wholesale.
Sales has always been part of mydomain.
(01:53):
It's what I'm in charge of.
And then the businessoperations, but when it really
came down to it, it was thepeople I always led large teams
anywhere from 30 to 500 peopleand plus so the people
leadership became my 2nd DNAstrand that really helped me be
successful.
I got to a certain point to passcompany works for me.
I love the company.
(02:14):
I'm there for 11 and a halfyears, making really great
money.
They love me.
I love my clients.
I love the teams.
I led just a job with literallykilling me the pressure, the
hours.
So it's a yin yang there.
And I decided after having someKidney stone problems.
A little personal here.
72 stones in four years and mydoctor kept saying it's stress.
(02:35):
I never believed them.
Finally when I decided to shiftmy career, do something
different and resign fromcorporate America and go into my
own business, I haven't had astone in 14, almost 14 years.
So go figure.
Yeah, that was one of the majorreasons and then my mom had
passed away in that last year incorporate America and that made
me reevaluate my life.
(02:56):
So sometimes when we make thosecareer decisions it's a lot of
different factors behind thatsometimes.
matthew_1_04-26-2024_100804 (03:01):
You took the leap and it paid off
and the doctor was right all
tom-powner_1_04-26-2024_110 (03:04):
Yes yeah, I did take the leap and
did something totally different.
I always had the idea of careerthink in my head, and I figured
I would do that when I retire aslike a side gig.
I put that plan into, fastforward 20 years ahead of time.
matthew_1_04-26-2024_10 (03:20):
propose a career marketing campaign.
I love that.
Can you elaborate on thatconcepts and provide some
actionable tips for job seekersimplement that approach,
tom-powner_1_04-26-2024_110 (03:30):
And it is a career marketing
campaign.
And one of the reasons for thatis recruiters don't need to
wafer resumes anymore.
They could go out and findpeople.
And where they find them isLinkedIn.
LinkedIn is nothing likeLinkedIn out there.
I know companies try toduplicate it, no one has yet.
So even our recruiting, werecruit for four companies, two
companies don't even post jobs.
(03:51):
I haven't posted a job in fiveyears.
Find a talent for LinkedIn.
So when you put all that into abubble, it's a career marketing
campaign.
Because you want to get found.
You want people to network onyour behalf.
You want people to share yourdocuments, your LinkedIn
profile.
And then you also want to applyfor jobs as standard methods
haven't gone away.
But there's other ways toconnect the job.
So when you look at that, It's acareer marketing campaign.
(04:13):
And one of the reasons I reallysay that now, because when I
started doing recruiting andreading resumes and hiring, I've
hired my whole career, but Inoticed that most resumes are
not selling anything.
They're not selling the personbehind the resume.
When I read a resume, especiallywhen I read the bullet points in
the career experience, I want toknow your accomplishments, your
contributions, what did you dothat produces results?
(04:36):
And we all have value companies.
When you don't see your valueand you don't brag about it, no
one's going to do that for you.
So I really learned early incareer thinking that creating a
career marketing campaign andselling your value.
over selling your function is ahuge difference.
And that speaks very well to thehuman reader.
And even during job interviewsif I have to spend a lot of time
(04:58):
in discovery mode, what I meanby that in job interviews, I
have to discover your solutions,your successes, your KPIs.
I shouldn't waste any timeduring a job interview.
When I see that on a resume, myquestion is a lot more
intelligent.
How long did it take you to dothat?
What was some of the pushbackwhen you implemented this?
Who did you get on your team tohelp you do that?
(05:18):
Those are better questions andyou know the answer to those
questions.
So when you construct yourresume in LinkedIn, like a
career marketing campaign, iteven helps land more job
interviews, better job interviewquestions, and hopefully leading
to better salaries.
matthew_1_04-26-2024_100804 (05:33):
So the typical job seeker will put
together a good resume and applyfor jobs, submit that resume.
That's not a career marketingcampaign.
What would be somedifferentiators and action steps
to someone that's activelylaunching a career marketing
campaign?
tom-powner_1_04-26-2024_110 (05:51):
One of the first things you Have to
come up with your professional,personal brand.
Sometimes they overlap.
And that branding message is.
Starting out the resume it's inthe branded headlining LinkedIn
profile, so it's hard to createthat two to three line value
proposition message or brandingmessage, but that's what starts
off the conversation.
It's like your elevated pitchcondensed into two lines.
(06:13):
So even on a resume, typicallywe have a professional summary
and some people seem to forgetabout it.
They feel, oh, Nobody wants toread the professional summary.
Recruiter is not the only personlooking at your resume.
The hiring manager, talentacquisition manager, next boss,
and sometimes the C suite.
So everyone reads the resumedifferently.
So the professional summary, Istill do that on resumes, but
(06:34):
part of the first part of thesummary, I call the resume
handshake.
And that's where you establishyour branding message.
You value proposition message.
The name of the job.
You're applying for and top fiveto eight subject matter experts,
keywords that describe that, andthat will get read in the first
three to five seconds.
So that's where the.
Marketing comes.
Market your value first in yourbranding statement.
matthew_1_04-26-2024_100804 (06:58):
In your opinion on those resumes,
What are some common resumemistakes that job seekers make
and that they should avoid?
tom-powner_1_04-26-2024 (07:06):
There's quite a few of them, but the
biggest one, put everything elseaside.
When I look at your careerhistory I'm typically going to
look at the job title, the date,and I'm going to dive into the
bullet points.
Now, typically there's aparagraph explaining the role.
That's valuable information, butthat won't get read first.
We're going to dive into thebullet points.
We're not going to read onebullet point and read all ten
(07:26):
down straight.
But when we read a bullet point.
If it sounds like a jobfunction.
And that's what it is.
If it's not sharing value,that's what it should be doing.
So how we write resume bulletpoints, we want to tell quick
cause stories.
CAR, it's just super simple, butit works extremely well.
What was the challenge you'refacing in the position, which
(07:46):
can mean main responsibility toa new project, a new client what
action, skill and action you putin place to solve that challenge
and what were the results?
Whether the result isquantitative or not, but what
were the results, the outcome,the contribution.
And then when you write thatbullet point on the resume, you
put the car in reverse.
Every single bullet point.
The first three to five wordsspeaks about an outcome,
(08:07):
followed by a skill in action.
So every time you read everysingle bullet point, Aha, this
is what they did, look what theydid, look what they did, instead
of look what they were supposedto do.
Big difference.
And that's probably the biggestchallenge we have with the
resumes.
matthew_1_04-26-2024_100804 (08:20):
I love that.
And then your action and theresult.
if you could sum up what aresume should look like, that's
it.
Results, outcomes, not day today, not, you know, manage team
of 30, okay, that tells menothing.
Were you a good manager?
Were you a bad manager?
team perform?
Was it the worst performing teamin the company?
they see that the job they'reapplying for, if they're even
tailoring their resume,experience managing 10 plus
(08:43):
people.
So they put managed team of 30.
Great.
I got it.
That's perfect.
That's telling them that I'moverqualified.
That tells me nothing.
my assumption can be that thatwas as much bad team management
as good.
And so you put the result, whatwas the challenge of the team?
What actions did you take toelevate the team's performance?
What was the result?
Department wide, even bettercompany wide.
(09:04):
How did you impact the bottomline?
How did you do this or that?
I really like that car.
Thank you for sharing that.
tom-powner_1_04-26-2024_1 (09:10):
Yeah, and when you write the car on a
resume, you put the car inreverse, You start at results,
then the action and you justleave off the challenge because
it's perceived by the results.
And you can make nice short oneline, sometimes two line bullet
points that are really hardhidden.
And as you've done recruitingand hiring, so you know you have
limited time.
You have, a couple hundredresumes in the database if you
(09:32):
need to go back to it.
matthew_1_04-26-2024_1008 (09:34):
Yeah.
Thank you for clarifying,reversing the car too.
And that makes sense.
show the best part first, right?
Which is the results.
Because challenges areimportant, but if there's no
result for the challenge, itdoesn't really matter.
It just means you were,Challenge like we all were.
So start, with the spicy stuff,right?
the numbers, the data, theoutcome.
tom-powner_1_04-26-2024_110 (09:51):
And if you have a lot of bullet
points, depending on what typeof role you have, one section
called operational enhancements,one by people in leadership, and
then another section of bulletpoints called the bottom line or
the numbers.
And you have these subheadingsand you break up the continuity
of me just seeing a bulletpoint, my eye would go to a
heading I'm attracted to.
matthew_1_04-26-2024_100804 (10:12):
So we now have the format for a
really powerful resume and wehave the right information, but
we still have the roadblock ofthe ATS system.
what's happening with those andwhat do people commonly do on
their resume that getseverything screwed up?
tom-powner_1_04-26-2024_110 (10:27):
The format does matter.
And it's no rocket scientist.
It's just very straightforwardas far as section headings.
So the ATS system could read theresume.
A lot of resume scoring comesacross the keywords on a resume.
But these ATS systems today withdictionary, they're all cloud
based.
Most of them updated instantly.
You get a lot of keywordassociation credit for.
(10:47):
So that gets into the resume.
Okay.
Relevancy score.
I call it a relevancy scorebecause you can sort out resumes
based on different things in theATS system.
But I think people just thinkkeyword stuffing is all you need
to do.
So they just take all thekeywords and just stuff them in
their resume.
I've even been, I've been Iguess it's three or four times a
month where someone takes a jobposting, they copy it, the whole
(11:09):
job posting, and they go down tothe bottom of the resume, font
size one, and they put it inwhite, and the whole job posting
is in two lines of the resume.
Yeah, we see that mostrecruiters will.
So just follow the simpleinstructions for the format,
making sure you have a jobdescription, make sure you do
(11:31):
have the key skills, and thinkabout what the system does.
The typical job post has about39 key words between the hard
skills, soft skills, andtechnical skills.
So if they're looking for 39combined and you only have 10.
Why would they really want tointerview you?
They don't know you yet.
They don't know you have theseother skills that you didn't put
on a resume that would berelevant.
(11:52):
So if the skills aren't there,the ATS system and a human being
is going to assume you don'thave them.
Now as human beings, we canconnect to the, type of company
you work for.
We might know people that workedat your past company.
ATS system has no emotion whenit comes to that.
So none of the emotional harminghappens So just make sure you
match your job.
(12:12):
And again, if you don't matchyour job, then maybe networking
is going to be another way youcan get your resume in front of
the right hiring people.
matthew_1_04-26-2024_1 (12:19):
Speaking of networking, what are some
strategies job seekers can useto optimize their LinkedIn?
profile and attract recruitersor potential employers.
tom-powner_1_04-26-2024_11 (12:30):
Good question.
I guess I probably spent fivehours talking about that.
I actually teach a nationalcourse on LinkedIn for the
resume writing industry calledthe NCULP course.
So we do a deep dive into how todo this.
We have to send your LinkedInprofile, should you be your
resume and steroids?
Cause you have a lot moreopportunity to share a lot more
about you, the person and yourcareer.
All together, 17 differentsections of the profile.
(12:52):
When it comes down to LinkedIn,there's nothing but a huge
database.
When the right data which arekeywords on your resume, that's
when you get found more often inLinkedIn Recruiter.
That's when LinkedIn knows whatjobs to suggest to you.
So a lot goes into that, somaking sure you have the right
stories and the right data.
The career experience in mybook, and that's what I
practiced for the past 14 years,should be a close mirror to your
(13:14):
resume, because that's yourcareer history.
So many people make the mistake,the career history is blank.
You're not a job title.
That doesn't define you.
It's what you've done in thatjob title in that company that
defines who you areprofessionally.
So leaving your career historyblank, all that key data, those
keywords, keyword density andkeyword diversity matters
usually in LinkedIn.
(13:35):
All that doesn't help you getfound.
LinkedIn just upped the keyskills section from 50 skills to
100 skills because they realizeda lot of new skills are out
there that they needed to dothat.
And it's been 50 for the, eversince LinkedIn.
And there's a lot of differentsections.
You got to get your brand intoyour profile.
You have an about page where youshould speak about yourself.
(13:55):
It used to be called the summarysection.
They changed it to the aboutsection because they want people
to speak about themselves.
So how do you lead teams towinning solutions?
Why do customers like workingfor you?
So whatever you do is for aliving.
Pick your top areas of.
competencies you need to haveand tell me how you have them.
So if you're in sales, how doyou drive top line sales?
(14:15):
How do you improve clientretention?
How do you train people on theproduct knowledge?
I want to know more about whatyou do and that's what really
resonates in the about section.
The branded headline underneathyour headshot, that's your brand
message.
You want to get your job titletarget in there, and you want to
get some keywords.
Because the keywords in theheadline, the keywords in your
(14:36):
job title line, and keywords inthe skills section, all get
indexed first by LinkedIn'salgorithms in search, and then
the rest of the content isindexed secondary.
So take advantage of thatknowledge, just make sure
everything's screaming who youare, and I'm seeing a person in
your career.
So a lot of people just leave alot off in the LinkedIn.
matthew_1_04-26-2024_100804 (14:56):
I like how you differentiated
between about in summary becausemy observation is job seekers
are really bad at The summary,because they just rewrite the
resume or rewrite what, what youwill see below on the LinkedIn
profile, just using the wordabout which shifts your mind
from, okay, how do I say I have10 years and marketing at this
company?
Just like you'll see below,right?
tom-powner_1_04-26-202 (15:17):
Exactly.
matthew_1_04-26-2024_10080 (15:17):
tell us about that, right?
Very open ended.
But using that, I think, willhelp people write something more
intriguing when you shift yourmindset that way.
tom-powner_1_04-26-2024_1 (15:27):
Yeah, definitely.
And especially if you're hiringsomeone who needs to have
leadership.
Tell me how you lead your teams.
We have our clients take a diskleadership assessment.
Sometimes we incorporate thatinto the about section.
It's all about you, what youbring to the table.
matthew_1_04-26-2024_100804 (15:41):
You had to bring up the disc.
I love the disc.
we, unfortunately, don't havefive hours to talk today, but
I'm disc certified.
tom-powner_1_04-26-2024_1107 (15:47):
Me too.
matthew_1_04-26-2024_1008 (15:48):
think my audience is probably tired of
hearing me say that, how do youthink artificial intelligence is
changing the recruitinglandscape?
tom-powner_1_04-26-2024_11074 (15:56):
I love AI.
I gender of AI, because when youtalk about artificial
intelligence, that's been aroundfor five decades.
Gender of AI with the largelanguage model is, it's what's
new and hot right now.
I think it's pretty amazing.
I think we should use it toassist us, not to replace us.
Even in their own work, becauseI've just a quick thing.
I, at the end of the year, lastyear, I wanted to write a quick
(16:18):
blog post on some of the topartists that have passed on in
the past year.
So I asked chat, TPT gave me 10top artists that passed away in
2023.
So it gave me this list and it'sOh, cool.
I have all this information.
Three of the people were stillalive.
So they were included in sometype of blog post about, someone
else who died.
And again, it just gave me wronginformation.
(16:39):
Of course, Amy Winehouse knew,but there were some other
artists on there that were stillalive.
It's if I wrote that, howembarrassing.
So you always have to check AI.
But it's a smart assistant.
In creating a resume I've usedit.
I've only now I want to use itto get stuck out of a creative
moment I need because a lot ofinformation we're getting back
was not really correct.
So we allow AI are helpingpeople write their resume just
(17:02):
take it as a lead.
Don't just copy and paste itbecause I'm seeing that now.
I've interviewed five peoplelast month that I was reading
the bullet points and they werecalled bullet points, but they
didn't make sense.
And.
All five people, when I asked ifthey have AI helping them write
the resume, four of them saidyes.
And then I dig a little bitdeeper and a lot of information
(17:25):
just didn't make sense.
It wasn't incorrect.
It was just, it was wronginformation.
So you gotta be careful with it.
In the hiring, in the ATSsystems, AI has been around for
a while, but Genevieve AI isjust starting to come into the
applicant track and softwaresystems where we could get a
little more better understandingof the Of a full profile.
(17:45):
So it could take your resume,could take your LinkedIn.
It may even take some othersocial media platforms and come
up with a profile of how wellyou fit into the company.
So I think that part of AI wouldbe interesting.
Hopefully it's not going to leadto more discrimination, but
human discrimination, sometimesit's just subconscious.
So that's a whole differentargument or conversation.
(18:06):
But I do think AI would be ableto be more predictive.
Tom Powner would have 80 percentpredictive rate of being
successful in this role.
So it's going to understand thatthose type of factors where
sometimes as recruited hiringmanagers, we don't do that deep
thinking into that.
So I think that part of AI, whenthat starts rolling out into the
hiring process, would be prettypretty interesting to see.
matthew_1_04-26-2024_1008 (18:28):
Let's jump back to the human part.
You've interviewed thousands ofcandidates and I'm curious what
red flags you've noticed andpatterns you've noticed in
interviews and what pitfalls jobseekers should avoid.
tom-powner_1_04-2 (18:42):
Interviewing, oh, it's very different.
So many different stories.
Number one is just making surethe setting, the way you dress,
you're ready for the interview.
If you're doing a videointerview, what's behind you?
Don't risk taking a videointerview from Arby's parking
lot on lunch break.
It just doesn't work.
Give the interview the respectit needs.
(19:03):
So I think a lot of people startoff.
And the wrong place.
I had a woman the other day, shewas sitting in a rock and
recliner and she was going backand forth like this.
It's just, that's your firstimpression.
It's like walking into a roomand not doing a handshake.
So that's number one.
Number two I think a greatinterview is broken down to
several components.
Understanding your resume.
(19:24):
So you can speak intelligentlyabout any of those stories.
When they ask you a questionabout something, Oh, I don't
remember doing that, but it's onyour resume.
just doesn't work.
Behavioral questions.
We ask behavioral questionsbecause we want to see how you
behave in certain situations.
So always be prepared for ahandful of behavioral questions.
Questions about The company, ifyou don't know the company
(19:45):
interviewing with, when I'mhiring for other companies I'm a
third party recruiter, but Ididn't want someone a paycheck.
I want someone chasing acompany, a place where they can
spend 40, 50 hours a week.
If you don't get that good vibeduring a conversation and you
don't know anything about thecompany, I'm not just saying
what the company makes and howlong they've been in business,
really understand what thecompany does.
(20:05):
And a lot of information aboutcompanies connected to the
mission and vision statement.
I need to understand you believein it.
And the next one is about theinterview.
Today, if I'm interviewing you,check me out on LinkedIn, ask me
questions about my career.
If I'm working for the company,what made you join this company,
has been your experience overthe past five years.
Have those one on oneconversations because an
(20:25):
interview is conversations.
So many people think, and thenso many recruiters too, it's
like the firing off questionsjust to, check them off the
list.
And if that's what's happening,try to make it a conversation.
As an interviewee, which a lotof people just forget to do.
I threw a lot at you.
I'm sorry.
I didn't break it down.
matthew_1_04-26-2024_100 (20:44):
That's a great list.
Many listeners are currentlyconsidering a career change.
Do you have any advice forsomeone looking to switch
careers midstream?
tom-powner_1_04-26-2024_11 (20:55):
Yes.
Be prepared because it's gonnabe a little more difficult.
It's always easier to stay inthe same track, less resistance
and just easier flow on.
I'm proof of that.
I left a great paying job.
I was making really good moneyand the first year in business,
I went from making X amount ofdollars.
And you have to be prepared forthat sometimes even shifts in
careers.
I know you still get a paycheck,but one career math is a step
(21:18):
lower, and you might have adifferent paycheck.
So understand be prepared forthat watch time because even for
me making that career shift.
I probably should have done aseveral years ago.
It's like someone who's in avery bad relationship.
They knew, 10 years into the 15years marriage.
They should have got out andjust time happens very quickly.
So keep your eye on time.
Everything we do in life,because as I reach 60, I realize
(21:41):
time is something you can't getback.
So if you have this inkling andyou want to do something
different, you want to try outsomething the longer you wait,
sometimes the harder it gets.
So keep track of time and justmake, work out a plan, right?
A plan of where you see yourselfworking, what do you want to be
doing, what type of peopleyou're going to surround
yourself with, and just makesure that's the direction you
see yourself fitting into.
(22:02):
Different, but lots of timesit's about meeting people in
that industry or in that companyand make that toggle list and
then just put your plan intoaction.
But if you have this deep desireto do something, don't have
regrets in life.
We can make choices and theydon't work out.
That's fine.
But you made a choice.
So we don't make choices.
Those regrets, they just livedeep in yourself.
(22:24):
So don't have regrets.
Just do it.
Like Nike says, just do it.
matthew_1_04-26-2024_100804 (22:29):
I like that watch time too,
because nothing, when it comesto career change, it's unlikely
that anything will happen foryou.
And everything good that's goingto happen is going to be
something that you take actionsteps on and is probably uphill,
right?
Not the fun stuff.
You're not going to fall into apromotion with a completely
different job title or industry.
tom-powner_1_04-26-2024_110 (22:51):
And if it didn't work out life still
goes on.
You always go back if you wantto, but then you shift to a
different direction.
I like watching American Idol,and when you see a twenty eight
year old forklift driver who hadthis talent and just waited
eight years before he startedsinging, do it.
Just do it.
Life's too short not to dothings.
matthew_1_04-26-2024_1008 (23:13):
Let's talk about salary negotiation.
It's nerve wracking and peoplefeel like it's a lose, lose
situation.
What are some tips you can offerlisteners to ensure they,
Navigate the processprofessionally, but also get a
competitive offer.
tom-powner_1_04-26-2024_1107 (23:29):
It depends what the market's like
right now.
The companies have seemed tohave the power going back three
years ago.
Then the job seekers had thepower.
But salaries have been going upreadily over the past three to
four years.
In today's market, dependingwhere you are, I know in New
York City, New Jersey and stuff,the salaries by law in certain
cities have to be listed.
The salary range has to belisted.
(23:50):
Now, sadly, some companies have,I looked at a job post the other
day, salary range is 120 to 380.
What the hell?
Come on.
Let's be transparent about it.
But you could do enough researchto get a range of what the job
should be paying.
And as companies get morecomfortable sharing their
transparency with salaries, thatchallenge is going to be, less
difficult to come over.
But you have to know your worth.
(24:11):
Some people just don't seethemselves as worthy of a
certain salary.
And sometimes that could besomething that's embedded
Because of gender or somethingor where we live or the zip code
we live in.
So we have to understand whatwe're worth in each market.
And you have to do some researchfor that.
There's some good pay scale.
There's some good websites outthere that their businesses have
(24:32):
come up with salary bands.
They pay corporate America fordata, and that data is paid for,
and other companies buy thatdata.
So companies want to be in acertain salary band, nobody
wants to pay way over, andnobody wants to be way under in
corporate America, becauseyou'll lose people, or, you're
overpaying.
Companies do have salary bands.
They will pay more.
(24:52):
Most companies will aim for themid range of the band, so if the
salary says 120 to 160, They'regoing to probably aim for 140,
but they will go up to 150, 160for the right candidate.
So know your worth.
And when you write a resumethat's more of a marketing
campaign, your worth isscreaming off the page.
So they'll see the interviewwould translate into better
(25:14):
conversations about thosesuccess stories.
And when we're successful, Thebest way to show companies will
be successful for them is byshowing your success from your
past.
So a lot of that negotiationsometimes is not needed, but
don't settle on a bad salary.
And my husband was part of that.
he worked for TI Crest for 24years and then his first job
afterwards, we negotiate extra25, 000.
(25:36):
He was afraid to, but I coachedhim through it and that set him
off on the next salary band.
Everyone has different needs asfar as how do you negotiate.
Everyone's challenge can be alittle bit different.
But once you start withunderstanding your worth is
showcased on your RedmanLinkedIn, that's where the
salary offer starts from.
matthew_1_04-26-2024_100804 (25:53):
For listeners that have heard you
speak about car or LinkedInprofiles or just improving their
interview, creating a careermarketing campaign.
How can they learn more aboutyou, connect with you and move
forward to fast track thesethings and get a little bit
deeper understanding and getdeeper into the process with you
(26:14):
and career thinker.
tom-powner_1_04-26-2024_110 (26:15):
The best place to contact me or find
me is on LinkedIn.
That's where I live.
That's where my business lives.
That's where my clients live.
That's where recruiting lives.
That's where people network.
So there's so much going on theLinkedIn and Tom Powner, there's
only one other Tom Powner onLinkedIn, so it's not hard to
find me.
Just searching my last nameconnect with me.
I'm always willing to do a freereview of your resume on
(26:35):
LinkedIn.
And we could talk about, whereyou're, you could take your,
where you are now and make itmore marketable.
That's the easiest way to findme.
matthew_1_04-26-2024_100804 (26:44):
And I've said this before, but for
job seekers listening, tuningin, Whether you're an accountant
or in sales or a softwaredeveloper.
Thomas and I know that that'syour skill set and it's your
skill set probably isn't acareer marketing campaign or
writing a sentence into a resumereally well.
So I'd encourage you get incontact with Thomas and his team
(27:06):
and let a professional guide youthrough this.
it does make a big difference.
So we'll link to your.
LinkedIn profile and then we'llget some more links in that as
well so people can get incontact with you and learn more
about you and your resources.
Before we close here, do youhave any final words of
motivation or wisdom forlisteners as they're taking in
(27:27):
everything that you shared withthem and moving forward in their
job search?
tom-powner_1_04-26-2024_1 (27:31):
First of all, there's Almost endless
opportunities out there.
There's 5.
8 million jobs in the U.
S.
right now on LinkedIn and that'sjust on LinkedIn.
So understand there's just somany opportunities you can go
after so don't be closed in ifyou didn't get that one job you
have to stay positive.
You have to be consistent.
You have to keep working at itAnd then when you do find that
(27:52):
dream job Never take your footoff your marketing campaign
because that dream job might beyour dream for two years and
then it becomes a nightmare.
So always be prepared to acceptnew opportunities, be open
opportunities.
And when you need to go find anew opportunity, you're ready to
hit the ground running.
So many people, when I startedcareer thinking during the last
recession, 95 percent of myclients came to me.
(28:13):
No resume, no LinkedIn profile.
They would just not be prepared.
And life happens and we seem tohave not a long memory when it
comes to, calamities that happenin our careers.
So always be prepared and thendon't do it alone.
I know you mentioned, teaming upwith a professional, making that
investment in time and money toteam up with someone who's going
to, Get rid of all thatnegativity in your head and get
(28:34):
you the right track is worth it.
And again, if you get extra 10percent of your starting salary,
you get a salary you didn'tthink you deserved.
It pays for itself 10 timesover.
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