Boondock Saints (1999) ft Derrick

What happens when good men can no longer tolerate the failures of justice? This question lies at the heart of Boondock Saints, Troy Duffy's controversial 1999 vigilante thriller that found its audience despite a troubled production and near-invisible theatrical release.

When Irish-American brothers Connor and Murphy MacManus survive an encounter with Russian mobsters, they interpret their deliverance as a divine calling to cleanse Boston of evil men. Armed with religious conviction and an expanding arsenal, the brothers embark on a righteous crusade that captivates the city and confounds the brilliant but eccentric FBI Agent Smecker (Willem Dafoe). As their friend Rocco joins their mission, the trio leaves a trail of dead criminals while forcing everyone around them to confront uncomfortable questions about justice and morality.

The film's journey to cult status is almost as legendary as its content. Written by Duffy while working as a bartender and bouncer, the screenplay lost its Miramax backing before finding independent financing. Its release coinciding with Columbine resulted in it appearing in just five theaters nationwide, earning a mere $30,000 on its $6 million budget. Yet through word-of-mouth and DVD sales, Boondock Saints found its devoted audience and became a St. Patrick's Day viewing tradition.

While some aspects haven't aged perfectly – particularly certain language choices reflecting its late-90s origins – the film's central theme about the responsibility to stand against evil remains profoundly relevant. As one character memorably states, there is another kind of evil beyond violence: "the indifference of good men" who stand by while injustice occurs. This message continues to resonate with viewers grappling with when intervention becomes necessary in an imperfect world.

How far would you go to fight evil in your community? Does our justice system's failure justify taking matters into your own hands? Boondock Saints doesn't provide easy answers, but twenty-five years later, it still forces us to ask the right questions.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:21):
Hello and welcome to MovieRx, where I prescribe
entertainment one movie at atime.
I am your host, dr Benjamin,and today I have a co-host
joining me, none other than afan favorite, derek.
Welcome Derek.
Hello, derek, today I thinkwe're looking at a movie that is
kind of I'm betting I'm goingto go out on a limb here.

(00:43):
This is probably a yearly watchfor both of us.

Speaker 2 (00:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (00:51):
Okay, so this is, and one of my intentions with this
is being that you know this isbeing released right before St
Paddy's Day.
Is that maybe kind of a atradition for others as well?
Uh, today we're going to talkabout boondock saints.
Um, and my God, this moviethere is so much to talk about.

(01:14):
Uh, where, where did uh, wheredid you first see, uh, anything
about this movie?

Speaker 2 (01:22):
Uh, so yeah, um, probably the first time I ever,
probably the first time I eversaw.
It was also the first time Iever heard of it, and it would
have been like a million yearsago back in Kearney, I'm going
to guess probably 2004, if Iremember correctly.
You know, there were a coupleof guys that we knew, you know,
Rick and Jason.
They used to live in anapartment that was below us in

(01:45):
this crappy old house we livedin and they were like, hey, you
guys got to check out this movie.
It's got Irish guys in it andof course they're looking at me
as the token Irish guy and, likeyou'll love it.

Speaker 1 (01:55):
You probably know the guys that are in it.

Speaker 2 (01:59):
And so yeah, we got drunk in a basement, watched it
the first time and all of us hadthe uh, the uh.
All of us had the.
The same response as the peoplein the movie when the cat scene
happened and uh and it was, uh,yeah, it was at that point where
it's like, uh, yeah, no, I'm,I'm fucking totally watching
this again over and over andover and over.

(02:19):
Um, like they, they had me assoon as you know, willem defoe
walked in and I was like that'sfucking go Goliath.
You know, that's fucking Elias,I'm in Right, like I'm
absolutely watching this.
I'm totally yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:29):
Yeah, for me it was pretty similar.
It was right around the sametime, probably around the 2003,
2004 area.
There was another guy thatworked at Perkins.
Do you remember Aaron?
We used to call him fred.
Uh, that sounds familiar.
Yeah, he was.
He was a server, just a strange, just kind of a strange guy.

(02:49):
He was funnier than hell, thekind of the kind of guy that
would that goes and quits, quitshis career in college to go
work at walmart so that he canget more material to be a
stand-up comic.
I mean, he's just that kind ofguy, yeah, yeah yeah yeah, super
, super funny guy.
Well, he, he showed me thismovie, uh, right around that

(03:12):
time and, uh, man, if, if Iwasn't, if if I didn't have some
sense of pride in the irishhalf that I have before this
movie, I was fucking riverdancing after I saw it the first
time, like I mean, it was justit.
It hit so, so deeply that itwas just like, fuck, yeah, man,

(03:34):
this was, this was just a greatmovie.
Um, now, uh, some of the basicinfo on it.
Released in 1999 rated r.
This is not a family friendlymovie for all of my visitors.
Like, do not play this for yoursmall children.
Um, my dad was totally cool andhe would have had us watching

(03:54):
it like you know, 10 or whatever.
Uh, this, this would have beena dad and Ben movie, but, uh,
except nobody knew about it.
So, um, written and directed byTroy Duffy, this was pretty well
his breakout, shit, wasn't it?

Speaker 2 (04:11):
Yeah, he was a bartender and a bouncer.
He was not a screenwriter.

Speaker 1 (04:16):
Yeah, and this was what he made.
It was perfect.
Stars Willem Dafoe, seanPatrick Flannery, norman Reedus
they don't have them listed onthe poster, but Bill Connolly, I
feel like needs to be mentionedRight, and of all people,

(04:37):
johnson Johnson was in thismovie.
You know, ron Jeremy, yeah, why, I don't know know, but that's
okay, it, it was still.
It was still just fuckinghilarious to see him in that
movie.
Um, now I'm something else I'mgoing to kind of change up in
season two is I'm not going todo, uh, I'm not going to do imdb

(05:00):
or netflix or anything likethat.
I'm not going to do theirdescriptions, I'm just going to
give kind of a brief synopsis ofthe movie.
So what would be the best wayto describe this?
It's two Irish brothers thatget kind of into an
extraordinary situation.
They have some kind of epiphanyfrom God, uh, that they need to

(05:24):
cleanse Boston of evil and thisfollows them in that path.
And there, uh, they pull on abuddy that's, uh, a part of the,
uh, that's a part of theItalian mob.
Uh, they're, they're goingafter russians and italians and

(05:44):
all this other stuff.

Speaker 2 (05:45):
uh, I mean, I guess that's really pretty much it,
right I'd say that's pretty muchthe short and skinny of it,
yeah yeah, they just that's justkind of kind of how they handle
it a couple of irish guys youknow, fuck you their way into uh
being vigilantes right and theirish way which I mean.

Speaker 1 (06:04):
Oh man.

Speaker 2 (06:06):
I mean, that is the Irish ways.
Fuck you.

Speaker 1 (06:09):
Right, the um that that room uh after after their
first rollover, and then theytake the, they take the guns and
the and the money that they getoff the guys and they take uh
and they take them into that.
That it looks okay.

Speaker 2 (06:24):
It looks like an IRA oh yeah, it was pretty much like
an IRA armory hold.

Speaker 1 (06:32):
Take your pick, go for it and he just tosses them
both a duffel bag and says knockyourselves out.
It's great.
You know something interestingabout that.
That music during that sounds.
It sounds a little bit like youknow something interesting
about that.
That music during that sounds.
It sounds a little bit likehappiness is a warm gun.

(06:53):
Yeah, I was thinking likedoo-wop, earth angel kind of
stuff is what I was thinkingWell, you know, they wanted to
use happiness as a warm gun forthat scene.
Yeah, they couldn't fuckingafford it.
It was $17 million they wantedfor 30 seconds of that song.

Speaker 2 (07:07):
Yeah, there were.
Can you believe that Duffytalks about like several
examples of like songs that hewanted in the movie and, yeah,
like every one of them was inthe neighborhood of like $20
million a song.
He's like fuck you, I'm abartender trying to get a movie
made.

Speaker 1 (07:22):
Man, kiss my ass yeah , we don't have that kind of
budget, right?
Yeah, and he ended up, wasn'tit his band that ended up doing
most of the music?

Speaker 2 (07:32):
uh, his band did at least like three or four songs,
yeah yeah, like at least a bunchof it.

Speaker 1 (07:37):
yeah, um, which I mean?
So why don't, why don't westart there with this movie?
The music Opening up this moviejust gives you, it just tells
you how this movie is going tobe, with that Irish jig going,
you know.
I mean it's got the whistle,it's got what's that called the

(07:58):
instrument that's like, it'slike a bagpipe, but without the
drones.

Speaker 2 (08:02):
You're talking about the Yulian pipe.

Speaker 1 (08:04):
Yeah, that's right, I couldn't remember the name, but
I mean, it's just, it's sobeautiful.
And then, of course, likeyou've, you've got this great
music that you're just startingoff, you know, with all with
this really good, you know, uh,panning scenery and all of that
stuff, and then somebody getshit in the face with a steak and

(08:32):
it just kind of sets theprecedent for what the movie is
going to be.
And yeah, and and beat withtongues, as my producer pointed
out, the you know I am who isthe master, you know.
So I mean the really this, thismovie starts off with just a
lot of fun.

Speaker 2 (08:48):
it starts out like really kind of like, kind of
light-hearted, uh, you know,jovial, it's like two brothers
fucking around in a meat packingplant.
Uh, you know you've got the.
Uh, you got the, the chick withthe, the rule of thumb, uh, you
know like that, that wholescene going on uh, and then like
it goes into like them at youknow St Patty's day, you know at
like their, their favorite pub.
You know, like I mean it.
Just it starts out very, almostinnocent and then it takes a

(09:12):
left turn, real fucking quick.

Speaker 1 (09:14):
Right and and well, I mean cause they go to the bar.
It's St Patty's day.
Like everybody's Irish on StPatty's day, they're at the bar,
they're drinking.
They got their Irish buddythere or their Italian buddy
there.
Russians come in, they boughtthe block and they're closing
the bar.
And they're closing an Irishbar on St Paddy's Day.

Speaker 2 (09:36):
In an Irish neighborhood.

Speaker 1 (09:37):
In an Irish neighborhood.
Tell me that that's not lookingfor some shit to happen.
Like you're going into an Irishbar and irishmen they can't
drink on on saint patty's day,like you're.
You're all, you'reintentionally trying to start
some shit at that point.
Uh, and they do, and they lighta guy's ass on fire and and

(09:59):
they they like, really make abig deal out of uh, uh, uh, you
know how his his joke aboutChekhov.
You know this.
Here's McCoy, find us a spot.
We've gotten away.
Team yes, just great.
Um, star Trek reference there.
I love that.
Um, now it was.

(10:19):
I'm trying to remember.
Was this the movie that had abunch of deleted scenes that
involved their mom?

Speaker 2 (10:24):
Yes, yeah, there was a bunch of deleted scenes with
their mom in it where their momwas going to explain some things
in there, and, yeah, they gotrid of the whole thing, which is
unfortunate because there was areally good back and like which
, which twin was the older twinor whatever right now.

Speaker 1 (10:50):
So something I kind of want to, I kind of want to
broach on, is some there's somany crazy facts about this
movie.

Speaker 2 (10:58):
Oh yeah, I mean, yeah , this, this whole thing's just
like this was a saga in and ofitself, like just the production
of the fucking movie was, uhwas just its own saga, let alone
the actual movie.

Speaker 1 (11:11):
Right, Well, it's release.
It's release was just weeksafter Columbine Correct Uh,
which was April 20th of uh 2000,2000.
Right, and you know.
So, a couple of weeks afterthat this movie was supposed to
be released and they canned it.
It was released in fivetheaters nationwide.
Five, five theaters, likeseriously.

(11:35):
So they spent $6 million tomake this movie and their return
was $30,000.
Like I mean, it was almost 31,but seriously, $31,000 out of 6
million that they spent to makeit.

Speaker 2 (11:52):
There was a lot of shit.
I mean, like up until beforethey even got to the release.
There was a lot of stuffinvolved where, like you know,
like Troy Duffy wrote this, asyou know, like in the in the
background, while he was workingas a bartender and a bouncer.
You know he was working in barsaround Boston and working on
this fucking script that wasloosely based off of shit that

(12:12):
he saw while he was at work orin his own neighborhood or
whatever.
And then, because he hadfriends in the movie business,
it somehow wound up getting intoMiramax and Miramax was like,
yeah, no, we love this, we'llgive you a shitload of money.
And uh, and then duffy's gotkind of a reputation of being a

(12:33):
dick and he pissed off so manyfucking people that were
interested in the movie.
Uh, got into arguments likestupid arguments with like
potential actors that were goingto be in the movie and it got
to a point where miramax waslike, all right, fine, fuck you,
we're not going to give you ourmoney anymore.
You've pissed off too manypeople, too many actors, we're
not going to give you anything,we're just, we're done, we're
out.
So he had to find like somebodyelse to uh, you know, to like

(12:57):
take his shit and uh fund themovie, and he wound up finding
this dinky little productioncompany I can't remember the
name of them right off the topof my head right now Found some
dinky ass little company thatgave him the six million and
then, by just like a wing and aprayer, he was able to actually
get this thing made.
So it was like by the grace ofGod he even got the damn movie

(13:21):
made in the first fucking place.
And then it comes out like rightaround the same time period as
columbine.
Uh you know when, when thatwhole thing uh went down, it
wound up wound up being likeright around that same time
period, and I mean there were somany things that came out in
that time period that just gotsquashed because of, uh, those
those two dipshits in colorado,and he wound up being one of

(13:43):
them yeah, well, and, and it wasthe, uh, I I kind of, I kind of
get it like I understand thatthat people wanted to, people
wanted to to have some kind ofreverence or acknowledgement or
something of of what happenedthere.

Speaker 1 (13:59):
Um, but I mean, even even to this day, uh, with the
things surrounding Columbine,we're still talking about the
wrong things, right, you know asfar as, as far as how that that
stuff all played out, but Imean, marilyn Manson canceled a
show.
Actually canceled his wholetour.

Speaker 2 (14:21):
Canceled?
Yeah, canceled a whole tour.
If I remember correctly, itimpacted sales of one of his
albums.
Actually, canceled his wholetour.
Canceled a whole tour, if Iremember correctly, it impacted
sales of one of his albums.
I don't think it was Hollywood,I think it was the second of
the Antichrist trilogy.
If I remember right, mechanicalAnimals, I think would have
taken a hit out of that.
There were movies that gotcanceled, that were going to

(14:41):
come out.
There were movies that wereimpacted that had already been
out.
Uh, you know kind of a thing andI mean, yeah, like you said, I
get it, but I mean it was a biguh over correction, uh, in terms
of trying to deal, deal withand stem out violence, right,
you know, and but, and yeah,yeah, I'm gonna get on a whole

(15:02):
fucking tirade about that, right, but uh, you know, yeah, it was
just, it was, uh, it wascertain people trying to be like
, oh shit, but yeah, I'm goingto get on a whole fucking tirade
about that Right.
But you know, yeah, it was justit was.
It was certain people trying tobe like, oh shit, ok, yeah, we
got to do something about, aboutviolence and like that.
That's not what caused this.
Like this is the.
You know, this is the same oldargument that we had back in the
90s about violent video games,violent movies or angry music is

(15:25):
not why those two dipshitswalked into a school and shot
the place up right.

Speaker 1 (15:28):
And and it's well, and it's been notorious since
then that we, that we still turna blind eye to the things that
do cause these things of course,because you know the the like
what we would actually have tochange that causes this kind of
shit, uh would require actualwork, yeah well, it would
require work and it would alsorequire you know making making

(15:49):
things accessible, right, aren'tthat?
Aren't particularly right nowum, goddamn commie socialist.

Speaker 2 (15:58):
Oh, you want to be available to people.
Pull yourself up by yourbootstraps.
Yeah, pull yourself up by yourbootstraps no, it's rub some
dirt in it.

Speaker 1 (16:06):
Yeah, yeah, that's another one no, the I I do.
I do remember.
I remember the day of thecolumbine shooting I did when I
went home and I saw my mom likemy mom was sitting in the living
room.
When I got home I walked in, uh, she gave me a hug and and then

(16:29):
then we sat down and watchedthe news for pretty much the
rest of the evening and thething, the thing that I remember
most was, um, the thing that Iremember most was how everything
else had everything to do withwhy we have these people with

(16:52):
compulsions to do violent thingsin places with large amounts of
people.
And, yes, it was video games,it was movies, it was rock and
roll.
We're blaming musicians.
Uh, I don't, I don't know aboutyou, but I don't know that I

(17:15):
would have survived high schoolwithout some of the angry white
boy music that I listened togoing through high school, like,
um, I, I just I mean that wasthat was part of the reason why.
Reason why, why I was able tothrive was was some of those,
those violent outlets that Ididn't have to be violent for
because somebody else wasalready being violent for me,
right, whether it was in musicor video games or whatever.

Speaker 2 (17:37):
So it's all an act of catharsis, right?
Catharsis, right, you know it's.
Uh, you know, like, when you're, when you're looking at it in
that, in that view, yeah, it'sall.
Just, you know catharticexperience at that point of what
you're, what you're trying togo through, you know.
So, if you've got, like youknow, screamy angry music, you
know you're, if you are somebodythat's going through some shit,

(17:58):
you're able to relate to thatand you punch the fuck out of
your steering wheel instead of,you know, keeping that bottled
up inside until it decides it'sgoing to erupt, and then you
punch the fuck out of somebodyin, you know, the hallway of
your school.

Speaker 1 (18:10):
Right, yeah, or with whatever you have at hand yeah,
right, yeah.
I don't know this.
And it's really funny how, how,like?
Because, like now we're talking, we're talking about something
that's socio-political, uh, on amovie podcast, and and the
reason why I want to stop andpoint that out is because, like,

(18:32):
this is part of the reason whythis was so important for so
many people was because this,this movie, was associated with
something that was that wasreally something that affected a
lot of people my age, Evenbefore, even before Columbine
happened okay, if Columbinehadn't happened at all in this

(18:56):
movie came out.

Speaker 2 (18:57):
This movie would have still been just as impactful as
it was because of the, becauseof the subject matter.
You know where it's talkingabout.
You know these, these two guysthat are tired of the the law
failing, uh, you know the thelaw that's supposed to be taking
care of criminals and supposedto be protecting innocent people
and it's failing on acontinuous basis, to where they
finally go.

(19:17):
You know what fuck it.
We're gonna solve the problemourselves.
That was, uh, you know, yeah,that had a lot of impact and
said a lot of things to a lot ofpeople back at 25 years ago and
, unfortunately, because wedon't fucking learn from our
mistakes in this place, um, it'sstill just as uh, you know,
just as uh timely now as it was25 years ago.

(19:40):
You know, I mean, uh, there,there, there might have been a
thing about this that went downwith, you know, some, uh, health
insurance people, uh, a whileback, that, you know, may have
been just in line with this samekind of same kind of thing, not
to completely bring, you know,uh, political turmoil into this,
uh, into this podcast well, andand really I don don't.

Speaker 1 (20:04):
I think it was with my sister.
I told her I don't mindpolitical stuff in my podcast.
I just I just prefer that itnot be hateful to get a very
like choose a side right.

Speaker 2 (20:23):
You know we're not.
We're not in an environmentthat has, you know, intelligent
discourse when it comes to youknow, one side versus the other,
it's.
You know you're either with meor you're against me.

Speaker 1 (20:33):
Right, which is a very unfortunate thing.
Yeah, that it's, which isactually really different from
prior to this movie coming out.
Oh yeah, uh, prior to thismovie coming out, uh, oh yeah,
the the 90s was, it was very, itwas a very different time
politically, like it wasn't sodivisive.

Speaker 2 (20:51):
Uh, yeah, I mean it, it was, and I think you know
part of why it wasn't as uhdivisive as it as it might have
seemed to be.
Sometimes I wonder, if we lookback at things like the 90s or
the early 2000s, you know, likepre 9-11, uh, you know, if we
look back at that shit with,like, graduation goggles to a
certain extent, uh, but it wasbecause you didn't have.
So you didn't have things likesocial media right.

(21:12):
You know, like the people thatwould have been so extreme on
either side, they didn't have aplatform, uh, you had.
You know, if you wanted to talkto somebody that was, you know,
a far right extremist, you hadto go to like a gun show in
Council Bluffs and find like theright table that was in the
back corner and then you mightbe able to like find the right

(21:33):
guy in hushed tones, left side.
Um, that was the guy named rod,also known as guy on couch,
that had smoked himself.
You know stupid, uh, and wouldsit there, you know, stoned out
of his mind, and tell you allsorts of just weird ass
conspiracy theories that weren'teven remotely true right and

(21:57):
well, I mean it so much of likethe, like the conservative end
of Like there was.

Speaker 1 (22:03):
There were so many different outlets, uh like that
were, that were national.
You know, you had the RushLimbaugh's, you had the Sean
Hannity's, you had the.
You know, I don't think TuckerCarlson was really a thing yet,
but uh, you know, I mean you hadthose, you had those
commentaries, um, on your radio,on your television.
You know, know, in your emailblasts before email blasts were

(22:28):
a thing, you know all of thesedifferent things and and the
left didn't really have that,they had Comedy Central, which
was pretty much it.

Speaker 2 (22:41):
We had Comedy Central , but we also had, like, the
arts in general pretty much it.
Um, we had comedy central butwe also had, like, the arts in
general.
You know, uh, any, anybody thattries to say, you know, get,
get, get politics out of yourart.
You know, stop being politicalin your music, stop being
political in your, your movies.
I'm art is political, you know.
I mean, there's no way aroundit, it's going to be.

Speaker 1 (22:58):
Of course, a lot of the people that say you know,
get politics out of your art,are usually the right wing
people, and a lot of those aremetal guys, and I don't know if
you've noticed anything about alot of metal these days, but
there's a lot of metal guys thatare doing a lot of like super

(23:18):
patriotic type music and stufflike that.

Speaker 2 (23:22):
I'm actually going to really go against that.
Uh, you know I'm gonna yeah, I'mgonna have to seriously
disagree on that one.
Um, a lot of, uh, you know likeno, actually a lot of a lot of
metal guys, uh, you know we're alot of us are actually, you
know, pretty, pretty liberal orpretty centrist, uh, you know,
or like just left of center,like cory taylor, I'll tell you,

(23:44):
you know, he's just left ofcenter.
Um, and you know, and it's it'sbecause a lot of them, I mean,
they are there to be in thatparticular genre.
Metal is more than just a styleof music.
It's also like a, a cultural,like subculture, you know kind
of a thing.
Uh, we have our, we have ourown people, we've got our own
language.
You know kind of a kind of athing, right, and a lot of us

(24:06):
come from like fucked upsituations and broken homes and
you know, like we didn't fit in.
We were the weird kid in class,we were probably somebody that
needed mental health care, thatcouldn't afford to have mental
health care, because everythingcomes with a fucking price tag,
right.
So empathy winds up being a bigthing and it's it's something

(24:27):
that a lot, of, a lot ofmetalheads have.
Uh, you know, a lot, of, a lotof people in the, uh, the, the
metal genre, the metal world,however you want to put it.
Um, they, they have a lot ofempathy, they have a lot of
understanding towards the, the,the freaks of the world, the
people that don't quite fit in,uh, so no, you don't really have
a whole lot of thatconservative shit now.
The guys that are playing thatpatriot card, uh, like the other

(24:50):
, uh, you know the, the fuckingthe five finger, you know dick
punch.

Speaker 1 (24:54):
Uh, you know guys of the world, um, five finger,
donkey punch uh, you know, Iguess mainstream, a lot of the
mainstream guys are kind ofdoing that and that's some of
those guys, but you know a lotof that is just it's.

Speaker 2 (25:07):
It's either performative nonsense or those
are guys that are hedging theirbets because they they know
who's, they know who's going topay them, or they know where
they're going to be, touring alarge, you know, in a large
population.
So, if you've got, you know,some of these guys were like,

(25:29):
they know they pretty much liveand die inside of the Midwest
right and you know, they theyrely on, like the state fair
circuit to be able to get themin.
Um, yeah, they're going to be,um, they're going to be doing
Panama, right, you know they're,they're fucking, uh, they're uh
, talking down or, you know,however the hell you want to put
it, uh, they're, they'repacifying conservative types
that live in those areas becausethey know they're going to buy
tickets and they're going tocome to their fucking show when

(25:50):
they're coming through.
You know, bumfuck nebraska.
And they need to make sure thatthey've got 20 000 people, uh,
you know, at that, uh, at thatarena to justify their gas price
before they can get out andback out to the coast fair
enough.

Speaker 1 (26:03):
Yeah, see, and, and I just you get some, I guess the
reason why it feels that way isbecause a lot of the, a lot of
the people like like I wastelling you about that got me
through high school.
A lot of those angry white boybands have kind of gone that way
now and maybe it's becausethat's the only, that's the only
place that they're getting thegetting the attention is that

(26:24):
those, those county fairs andthings like that?

Speaker 2 (26:28):
The other side of it, though, is where you get some
of those guys where you knowthey've, they've, they've
changed colors.
If you will, yeah, it's.
It's because you know like whenyou're, when you're young and
you don't have a whole lot tohave to worry about, you might
be able to rage against themachine all you want, but then
you get into your forties andyou're like fuck, dude, the

(26:48):
machine's pretty comfortable.

Speaker 1 (26:51):
Fair enough yeah.

Speaker 2 (26:53):
And you know, yeah, you see, like a lot of like the,
uh the, the old, like eighties,uh, you know the eighties, uh,
like hair metal guys, wherethey're coming out, yeah,
they're there.
Some of them are pretty fuckingconservative, but it's because
they're also like 60 and uh, youknow they're, you know they're
falling into the rhetoric andthey're seeing the bullshit and
they're like ah, yeah, brownpeople are the fucking problem.

(27:14):
It's like dude, you like, ifyou go to your shows, shut the
fuck up.

Speaker 1 (27:23):
Like you need those people shut up.

Speaker 2 (27:24):
You know it's like the line out of batman, you know
you, you'll live long enough tobecome the villain live long
enough to become the villain.

Speaker 1 (27:30):
That's, uh, I, I really don't want to live that
long.
Um, my, my producer is pokingfun at me, okay so.

Speaker 2 (27:46):
I think we're in the movie somewhere.

Speaker 1 (27:47):
I think we're yeah, we got away from the movie just
a hair Playing distractible herefor a second.
So yeah, you know what?
This is actually a really goodtime to just kind of talk about
some of your favorite scenes.
I'll go first the moment whenSmeker comes in and he puts the

(28:07):
headphones on and he startslistening, listening to that
operetta and and and goingaround and looking for bullet
holes and checking underneaththe guys and everything and he's
like dancing around as he'sdoing it and yeah, that that
drew me into the movie, like alland everything up to that point

(28:28):
had given me a good laugh andeverything but.
But smekker's just out of thisworldness, completely
unbelievable character.
But he made it believable why?
Because it's willem fuckingdefoe.
So this, this, this unrealisticcharacter made real by willem
defoe, uh, really drew me in onthis movie.
And that, that first scenewhere he's, where he's walking

(28:50):
around, look and and when he'sbusting that detective's chops.
What's his name?
greenlee greenlee yes yeah, whenhe's, when he's busting
greenlee's chops over, you knowsweet and low.

Speaker 2 (29:01):
So yeah, I really loved that opening scene,
especially with smeker doing thedoing the stuff yeah, that
really set the uh, you know,that definitely set the pace for
uh, you know, yeah, uh, youknow, willem dafoe and then the?
Uh, the three stooges fromboston pd yeah, that's who the
fuck I am yeah it was a goodscene.

Speaker 1 (29:22):
Um what about yours?

Speaker 2 (29:24):
um, I mean, I've definitely got a lot, um, I, I,
some of them are going to be,you know, pretty, pretty fucking
obvious, right, uh, right, butI mean definitely just the, the
banter back and forth between,uh, connor and murph.
You know, like the, the waythat those two actually like
really sold it that they werebrothers of some sort, and I

(29:46):
mean the.
The two best examples areprobably the argument about the
rope, you know, when they're,when they're getting the weapons
right, and it was oh you'restupid fucking rope.
You know charlie brownson'salways got that shit.
Why not?

Speaker 1 (29:58):
oh, is that soul ramble?

Speaker 2 (30:02):
knife out of the other, you know out of the
dude's bag like that was, thatwas definitely a favorite.
Or when they're bitching at eachother in the fucking uh, when
they're in the other the airgrate, uh, trying to drop in on
the russians, and they're, youknow, like the one dude's
bitching about the fucking ropeand they get into a fist fight
in this goddamned air duct.
They get into a goddamn fistfight and and then, like, they

(30:22):
wind up falling and droppinginto the hotel room and all hell
breaks loose.
But just the fact that you'dlike the zero, like in, like not
even realizing or giving a shitof like where you are or how
it's appropriate or anythingalong those lines.
You're just busting eachother's balls and it's just that
that brotherly, like I'm goingto beat the shit out of you

(30:44):
right now because you're being adick.

Speaker 1 (30:46):
Right, well, and, and that was that was the first
moment that it that it reallystarted to feel like they really
were brothers.
Yes Cause, like up to thatpoint they got along pretty good
, right, like, and and I mean, Idon't, I don't know what, what
your sibling situation is?
I, I have sisters, uh, but mysister and I, like, we appeared

(31:10):
to everybody else Like we gotalong great, but at home it was
world war, fucking 12.

Speaker 2 (31:16):
Like.

Speaker 1 (31:16):
I mean, we fought the next, we fought the next 10
world wars in our home and itwas uh, but we never showed
anybody.
Nobody ever saw that.
Nobody ever saw that side of usoutside of the home.
So, um, but this, but this wasa moment where they were stuck

(31:36):
in this, in this air vent, andthen it was just like you know
what I'm, I'm sick of your shit,I'm going to fucking, I'm going
to beat your ass.
And then they start fighting.
It's great.
And then, you know, of course,that leads into one of my
favorite scenes, when they bustthrough the ceiling and they
spin around and then they shooteverybody, all the Russians, yep
.
But then in comes Smeker withthe rest of Boston PD and, oh my

(32:05):
God, that scene where he'swalking around the room and he's
and he's trying to pull thingsfrom the different detectives,
trying to get them to help himfigure out this situation.
Like he's already got itfigured out.
He just wants them to figure itout and and and try to figure
out what's.
What's going on here as he'swalking around the room and

(32:33):
figuring there's.
So that tells us what.
He was shot at a downward angle, which says he was on his knees
.
Ah, good, greenlee.
What else does it tell us?
He was shot at a downward anglehe's like you fucking guys.

Speaker 2 (32:45):
Um, my, my favorite out of that, you know, out of
that whole, uh, that particularscene, is when he's uh, I think
it's duffy that he's talking to,where he's like you know, do
you have a, do you have a theoryto go with that tie?
And uh, you know, and he's likeyou know what?
Fuck all these other guys, thiswas their main target.
They were after the fag man andyou know, and everybody,

(33:06):
everybody has that, oh shit.
And they're like wait, what thefuck did?
You just say he was fat man.
I totally said fat man andthat's where you know.
And and he goes ah, freud wasright, you're talking
specifically about freudian slipand like, oh fuck all the nerds
actually understood that right.

Speaker 1 (33:21):
Yep, no, that was good, um, I mean, and oh that
that brings up something else.
That's kind of from this, fromthis movie, that as a general
thing with this movie, some ofit doesn't fly well in society
today as far as, like some ofthe terminology used.

Speaker 2 (33:39):
There are certain terms that did not age.

(34:00):
Yeah, they're not coming up withthe modern day very well no,
yeah, they're not coming up withthe modern day very well, no,
as an example, Fagman Anytime,Willem Dafoe, who is playing,
you know he was toxicallymasculine Right and he was
self-hating as a you know, as agay character, regardless of how
flamboyant he was throughoutthe whole movie.
And so, yeah, anytime, anytimehe interacted with not just not

(34:21):
just interacting with gay people, but anytime he interacted with
somebody that was likestereotypically gay that's.
That's when, like the, the badparts came out.

Speaker 1 (34:31):
Um, you know the the cuddling thing that that scene I
I'm not going to lie back in in2003, 2004, whenever it was
when I saw this that that scenehad me fucking rolling now not
as much, but it's you can stillacknowledge it as still a little

(34:52):
bit of a smile.

Speaker 2 (34:53):
Yeah, you can still acknowledge it as funny, just
you just don't need to say it,right, you know?

Speaker 1 (34:56):
it still has the same effect.

Speaker 2 (34:58):
You just don't need to use the same words.
Things are, you know, thingsare still allowed to be funny,
uh, you know, and it it's stillallowed to have the same impact.
You know, like it wasn't justin the last 20 years that that
particular word, you know,became bad.
It was bad back then too.
To call somebody, you know, tocall somebody a, you know that

(35:21):
particular phrase I'm not goingto say it here any more than I
already have, but you know, liketo use that particular phrase
was considered to be bad even 20years ago.
Uh, you know that, that yousaid something like that and
that was the point of why heused those particular terms.
So you can still laugh at itand you can still understand.
You know the the point thathe's trying to make, because it

(35:43):
still fits 20 years later yeah,it's I don't know.

Speaker 1 (35:48):
I think that with, I think I think really a lot of it
also has to do with with who itis at that time, because that
was still like in in the early2000s.
That was still when it was.
It was kind of before don't say,don't say gay, like you know,
the don't say gay, like you know, the don't say gay thing, the,

(36:09):
the, uh, that that kind ofmovement, um, and that was still
when.
I guess really the only way toput it is uh, when, when people
hadn't figured out that it stillwasn't okay that when they'd
say I don't, when I say fag, Idon't mean a gay person, or when
I say a queer, I don't mean agay person, or when I say a
queer, I don't mean a gay person, you know, like the when, when

(36:33):
that was still the argument,like like I, I always remember,
like the old george carlin quote, you know the the old george
carlin bit from like his wayback days, uh, I think this
would have probably been likethe 70s, yeah, where uh, where
he was talking about, you know,growing up in the 50s in, uh,
new york, and it was, uh, youknow, fag was just like, fag was
just like a weirdo right, or hewas just like the other, you

(36:56):
know, or the, the sissy in thegroup, or the guy that was being
a pain in the ass.

Speaker 2 (37:00):
Oh, you know the.
You know fags going home, he'sgoing home, uh, you know kind of
a kind of a thing guys bustingout early, whereas if they were
going to talk about a gay personthat was queer.
You know, like somebody, youknow if somebody was gay he was
a queer, that was when theywould.
They would go off of that.
But I mean those, thosecolloquials change over time and
, uh, you know, it became a lotmore obviously that particular
word was more synonymous withbeing derogatory towards gay

(37:22):
people.

Speaker 1 (37:23):
Well, and I think that's, I think that's also an
important thing to note is that,like language does evolve?
Yeah, like sometimes.

Speaker 2 (37:32):
Words matter.

Speaker 1 (37:34):
Right.
Like sometimes I get kind offrustrated because, like another
modern one that you get a lotof hate for is retarded If
you're using it about a personlike that's just that's not nice
.
That you get a lot of hate foris retarded If you're using it
about a person like that's justthat's not nice, like you're

(37:54):
hurting somebody.

Speaker 2 (37:55):
Which is the point, yeah you know, like, if you're
using that term, you're nottrying to be complimentary.

Speaker 1 (38:02):
But if I'm talking about how the toaster that I
have downstairs is retardedbecause the four mark does not
mean four minutes, it means likesomething like between a minute
and a half and a minute and 45seconds, it's not advanced and
so, like I'd constantly makethat argument, but I mean
there's, there's still the, thepeople that insist that it's
still just not a good word.

Speaker 2 (38:22):
You got to, you got to always consider context.
You know, context is always thethe thing that's most important
when you're talking about words, but context doesn't scale.
Context works when you're insmall conversations or in small
groups.
The moment that you're talkingto a large group of people or
something that winds up beingnational, context is not a thing
.
Context goes right out thefucking window.

Speaker 1 (38:44):
Yeah, window, yeah, the.
I mean the example that I wouldgive for how you know context
it matters with a large group ofpeople is you know, if
somebody's running for presidentand they say something like
that, then you know that wouldbe the end of their career.
But that's not a fucking thinganymore.
You can say anything youfucking want and you can be
president now.
So, hey, maybe we should run onthe next ticket, okay, so my

(39:09):
producer just chimed in with astory.
She used to work at a facilitythat worked with individuals
with intellectual disabilitiesand how the staff had gone to a
conference at one point andsomebody at this conference,
speaking to a large group ofpeople in the industry, had used

(39:32):
had used the word retarded.
In in that kind of a contextit's bad.
Like you just don't, you don'tdo that because because in in
that environment it's a hurtfulword and it's intentionally
hurtful in that.
You know, in that environmentit's a hurtful word and it's
intentionally hurtful in thatregard.

(39:52):
And I feel like that's kind ofa thing with a lot of the
terminology and words and thingslike that that are used in this
movie Period.
I mean, they use racial slursand things like that.
Well, when Rocco goes and talksto Iacovetta, the joke, yes,
the joke.
When he insists on dropping theN-bomb, he won't accept him

(40:17):
saying black guy, he won'taccept it.

Speaker 2 (40:20):
And Rocco doesn't want to.

Speaker 1 (40:22):
He doesn't feel comfortable.

Speaker 2 (40:24):
They correct him every time where he's telling
the joke and he's like yeah, andthe black guy?
And then they correct him withtheir word that they want to use
yeah, that's what I said,Anyway.

Speaker 1 (40:32):
Yeah, that's what I said.
Yeah, yeah, see, and I think Ithink a lot of that I mean, and
even then in that context,that's one, that's just uh,
that's one that's just oh, yeah,well, yeah, no, that's the.

(40:53):
Uh, the, yeah, that's a, that'sa.
That's a different kind ofthing, different level, but you
also have to.

Speaker 2 (40:56):
You have to understand that, uh, you know,
part of that is they areillustrating a particular group,
right, they're illustrating aparticular moment in time.
They're illustrating aparticular group of people, um,
and a type of social, you know,class of sorts.
You know people that use thoseparticular terms and phrases
like they're, like they'renothing, and especially like

(41:17):
that time period east coast uh,you know, a lower, lower
economic tax bracket thoseparticular words would fly
around like it was nothing and Imean, that's, that's all that
they were.
You know, that's that's allthat they were just trying to
illustrate is, you know, yeah,you're in this particular group.
You're going to hear thosethings.
Uh, you know, like those of usthat grew up in, you know, in
the midwest right, you know, yougrew up in the midwest, late

(41:40):
90s, early 2000s bunch ofhispanic population around here,
what are some particularphrases that you heard on a
pretty regular basis that thatare not good phrases to hear?

Speaker 1 (41:53):
Right, they're not good.

Speaker 2 (41:54):
They're not good words to use, but they got used
a lot, Right, Because you knowthat was just how it was.
I'm not excusing it, I'm justexplaining it.
You know that's right.
That's just a normal thing oflike particular groups of people
where they they talk that way.

Speaker 1 (42:14):
They still fucking talk that way, yeah, then
there's not really a whole lotyou can do besides.
I mean something, somethingthat I've kind of I was going to
say something that I've kind ofmade myself like a little bit
more I I have tried to make itmore a point that if I, if I'm
uncomfortable with somebodyutilizing terms, especially
racial terms, uh, that that arethat are not okay, uh, I have
made a point to say something.

(42:36):
A lot of the time, uh, for fora good portion of of, uh, my
adult life, it's kind of justbeen you know what that's.
If they're going to use that,that's fine, that's on them.
I'm not going to, uh, and I'mnot going to like it.
I'm not going to like that theydo.
But now I'm done Like I'm, I'mcalling people on it, uh, and

(42:57):
it's, and which actually is kindof why, which is kind of why
sometimes this movie can be alittle bit, uh, a little bit
hard to watch because of youknow the, because of the mix in
the, in the wops and the.
You know all the stuff that the, all the things that they're
throwing out, like all the time,and you're just like God, can

(43:19):
you guys just stop Like justfucking stop it already.
Um, but uh, but again, like if,if they're going to accurately
portray what South Boston isgoing to be like, then they have
to do it, uh, especially atthat time.
I mean, I don't, I don't knowany, if I have any listeners in
South Boston.
I am not shaming you people,like I'm just.

Speaker 2 (43:41):
I'm just saying we're not going for the stereotypes,
but we're kind of going for thestereotypes a little bit.

Speaker 1 (43:53):
I mean, at least this movie was.

Speaker 2 (43:54):
So I'm not, I'm not dragging a potato on a string
through south boston because Iknow I'd have better luck with a
beer.

Speaker 1 (43:57):
Yes, that is one of my favorite lines.
You'd probably have better luckwith a beer.
Yeah, I love that.
Um so, uh, a couple ofinteresting facts about this
movie.
The word fuck and itsderivatives were used 246 times
in this movie.

Speaker 2 (44:13):
They certainly illustrated the diversity of the
word.

Speaker 1 (44:17):
They certainly illustrated the diversity of the
word.
Um, that is, that is.
I think you know.
You might think that's a lot,but it's still like 42 on the
list of movies that have themost fucks spoken.

Speaker 2 (44:33):
It's it's only number 42 in the top 50, so it's not
that bad I was gonna say youknow, some people might think
that's a lot, I'd call it afucking tuesday, but I was like
it's it, it felt comfortable.

Speaker 1 (44:47):
It was a comfortable amount of fucks to to in a what
is it hour and a half two hourmovie.
Yeah, so I mean a couple ofinteresting facts about it.
I'm trying to look Now.
I'm looking at your stuffYou've got, you've sent me a
book Fucking nowhere the joke,holy shit, we actually hit a lot

(45:11):
of this stuff already.

Speaker 2 (45:12):
All right, give me another one of your favorite
scenes let's see here um, allright, fuck it the cat, we gotta
talk about the cat okay, so thecontext of this?

Speaker 1 (45:25):
I'm, uh, getting my, getting my trump hands out so
that I can move them around asI'm talking here.
Easy there.

Speaker 2 (45:33):
Your hands are too big.
They can't be Trump hands.
Yeah, I guess.

Speaker 1 (45:40):
I've got small hands for a bass player.
I've got big hands for a Trump.
So the context here is thatyou've got three guys that that
have have just figured out thatthey're, uh, a part of this, uh,
that they're now forming thislittle group of of uh vigilante

(46:00):
killers.
Yeah, vigilante saints that goin and kill people who are
criminals and just generallyevil.
Well, they go back to theapartment and they've just got a
shitload of cash for for, likeout of a, out of a briefcase.

(46:21):
They've ordered pizza, they'vegot shitloads of beer, they're
all drunk as shit and they'resitting around a table talking
about how they're going to killa bunch more evil people.
And Rocco, do you want to givethe line?

Speaker 2 (46:40):
He's talking about.
You know, they can dunk my nutsin marinara sauce so they can
get a taste of home.
Well, they're giving himfellatio like, fuck it, I'm done
, it is done.
And then he bangs his uh, bangshis fists on the other table,
which, accidentally, uh, youknow which uh which gets one of

(47:02):
the guns to accidentally go off,and, uh, it hits one of the
cats and then, yes, this fuckingcat just blows up into just
meat salad on the fucking wallit, it's well it it liquefies
the cat.

Speaker 1 (47:18):
It is, it is a paint, it is, it is a, a, a level of
paint, a coat of paint on thewall, and they, they, of course
they freak out like oh my God,and they jump away from the wall
and everything Um, you know, Ican't believe that, just fucking
happened.
And then one of the best linesof the whole movie, I think, is

(47:41):
when Rocco looks at the, at thegray matter on the wall, and
says is it dead?

Speaker 2 (47:57):
This cat is fucking puree, is it dead?
This cat is fucking puree, isit dead?
It was I just.

Speaker 1 (48:00):
oh, they're, they're drunk, they're in shock.
Yeah, they had to have beendrunk, right?
Yeah, oh yeah.
And uh, like my producer justpointed out, rocco was like I,
I'm hit, I'm hit.
Yeah, that was a good scene, Ilove that.
And then there was actually areally profound scene.

Speaker 2 (48:17):
Troy Duffy put that in because there was a chick
that he had dated that had a catand apparently she was a real
pain in the ass and he was justlike you know what Fuck it I'm
putting this in.
This is a self-indulgent scene.
I'm pain in the ass and he wasjust like you know what fuck it
I'm putting this?
This is a self-indulgent scene.

Speaker 1 (48:31):
I'm putting this in.
For me that's awesome.
Oh, the the scene after it wasactually pretty profound as far
as the story is concerned,though, because then they bring
something up that had kind ofbeen broached a little bit in in
the in the scene before, butthey, they have a real, like a
getting real moment with Rocco.
They're like, man, they sentyou into a room with nine guys

(48:55):
with a revolver.
Like they gave you a gun withsix bullets to kill nine guys.
This was a setup.
They were trying to fuckingkill you and he wouldn't buy it.
And they were trying to be realwith him.
Like you know, dude, like comeon, like you have to know that
they don't give a shit about youand that they're trying to kill

(49:15):
you, but he doesn't believe it,and then he goes and he creates
another crime scene.

Speaker 2 (49:22):
Yeah, yeah, he finds out, they were right.

Speaker 1 (49:25):
Yep.
He finds out they were rightand goes terms of using his own
term.
I was a goddamn turkey shoot itwas a turkey shoot went to a,
went to a cafe, a bar, like abar and grill sort of thing
meets a couple of guys.
They spill the whole thing forhim and then he shoots every

(49:46):
Italian guy in the place andthen runs away.
And then he bust every Italianguy in the place and then runs
away.
And then he busts in to theapartment for another really
great scene where he's freakingout.
We gotta fucking go.
And he's busting, he's pulling,like I don't know why he was

(50:06):
grabbing fucking records to putinto this bag.
He was just grabbing whateverhe could to put into this bag to
get the fuck out.
Grabs records, grabs an iron,grabs some stuff out of the
cupboard and all of that stuff.
And then they, you know,fucking Norman Reedus.
He's just all like, you know,yeah, I love this shit, let's go
, you know.
And so they finally get readyto leave and then Rocco gets

(50:27):
yelled at by his girlfriend andher friend, rocco, what, the, uh
, the, the, and then, and thenhe has to explain about the cat.

Speaker 2 (50:41):
Yeah, now, because I thought it would bring closure
to our relationship, because Ithought it would bring closure
to our relationship.

Speaker 1 (50:49):
He, he um the his.

Speaker 2 (50:52):
His interactions with her are really unhealthy they
were, they were not in a greatrelationship at all the, uh, the
, the fact that he, that he, youknow, you know what, what?

Speaker 1 (51:05):
your little, your precious little you, you tell me
that cat's name and I'll shootmyself in the fucking head, your
precious little little.
And skippy, skippy, skippy.
Oh, what fucking color was it?
Bitch?
Oh, my God, so bad.
But the, the part that, the partthat really got me in that

(51:25):
scene, part that really got mein that scene, uh, I mean it's
again, it's, it doesn't age wellbecause of uh, because of the,
the, I guess the connotationthat it could have had, uh, at
the time when when her friendhis girlfriend's friend, you
know tells him that he can'ttalk to her like that and he
shut your fat ass, ravey, Ican't buy a pack of smokes

(51:49):
without running into nine guysyou fucked.
And it's like, yeah, that'sslut shaming, yeah, but my god,
the first time I saw that movieI I almost couldn't breathe with
with the way that he pulledback with his hair and
everything in that scene.
And the funniest thing aboutall of that shit with Rocco is

(52:09):
that was him.
Yeah, yeah, that was Rocco.
Like that wasn't a character,that was David De La Rocco, like
that's who he was, and he wasjust in the movie.

Speaker 2 (52:21):
Yeah, yeah, the guy.
Yeah, yeah, he's friends withTroy Duffy.
Now, granted, he does have aclassical acting background, but
uh, yeah, I mean he was, he wasfriends with duffy.
Duffy wrote the uh, he wrotethe character rocco for him
about him right, so.

Speaker 1 (52:39):
So he just goes into this movie playing him, like
it's it.
It's just fucking hilarious um,uh, and and then.
And that just makes it evenfunnier when you get into all
the other stuff that goes onwith that character in some of
their other interactions andeverything.

Speaker 2 (52:57):
Yeah, I mean it was like Rocco was the interesting.
You know he was the loosecannon, you know, if you will,
like the other two, you know,with the brothers, like they had
their, they were on a missionfrom God, right, you know to to
quote blues brothers for asecond, they were, uh, you know,
they were on their mission fromGod.
They were doing their thing andRocco was kind of their
connection into the uh, into theunderworld, to be able to find

(53:20):
guys that they could kill.
But Rocco wasn't a hundredpercent like in on the gag,
right, you know he wasn't 100like in on the mission, uh,
where he would.
He did things that were outsideof the line, like when he, uh,
you know when, when he holds agun to the priest's head, uh,
you know, uh to uh to get him totell smacker certain things in

(53:41):
the other confessional booth,like that.
That almost got him fuckingkilled.
Uh, you know, rocco was he.
He wasn't the worst guy, but hewasn't a good guy either, like
the uh, the, you know the guydid shit for the italian mob.
He was a criminal, he was anumbers guy, uh, he was just
lower on the totem pole uh, buthe also didn't fit with.

(54:03):
You know their particular lineof like don't fuck around,
otherwise we will kill you, kindof a thing.
He did stupid shit.
Uh, eventually they would havehad to.
They would have probably havehad to take him out had he not
already been taken out by uhyakaveta, um, but yeah, it was
just.
It was an interesting dynamic,uh, you know, with the three of
them all the time, where he wasalways this like loose cannon

(54:24):
that would pop off and do stupidshit and these guys are just.
You know, god damn, we're justtrying to do what god tells us
to right you keep fucking it up,man, you keep making this
difficult for us right now, the,the.

Speaker 1 (54:39):
I mean we could.
We could probably do a threehour fucking episode on this
movie.
Honestly, um, but seeing wherewe're sitting at on the time
anyway, uh, we're gonna kind ofjump into one of the one of the
deep ends of of this whole thingat the end of the movie.
It brings into question the uh,I kind of I kind of talked

(55:03):
about it with uh, with my sisterin a couple of episodes the
right thing to do versus theofficial thing to do, yep, um,
and and all of that stuff, uh,and and that really kind of
becomes a theme of this movie.
Uh, entirely, is, you know, Imean the, the whole end of the

(55:24):
movie, uh, in the credits, isjust interviews with people
around Boston about what theythink about the saints.
You know, is what they're doingright and you know is, is it
okay?
Should they be allowed to do it?
Should they?
Um, you know, like, uh, I meanjust, it is kind of a, an

(55:44):
ethical uh conundrum, uh andmoral conundrum really, um, so
like, I mean there's there's alot of varying, different
opinions some summer.
I love some of the how some ofthe people are just like no
comment yeah, those people arethe one, those are the smart
ones right nope, I ain't sayingshit because I mean, and a lot

(56:08):
of that's, because I mean where,where do you sit?
You know, like you're sittinghere, going.
You know that's not, that's nothow things are supposed to be
done.
Like there's we have, we have ajustice system for a reason, uh
, with you know, uh, with ajudge and jury and and you know
so that we don't have peopleplaying those roles, um, and

(56:32):
things like that.
But then you know, like, likeuh, murph says earlier in the
movie, when they, when they weresitting at the table, you know,
guys go home and they turn onthe news and they see how all of
these horrible, awful, evilpeople get off after, you know,
spending a couple of hours injail, um, and, and how are they

(56:54):
supposed to feel about that?
You know, when they could go tojail for writing a bad check,
you know, or something like that.
Um, you know all of these, allof these awful things, that that
these people do and yet theydon't get touched, that that
these people do and yet theydon't get touched, um, it can
feel kind of frustrating, for,for you know, law-abiding

(57:15):
citizens, that criminals get offusing our, our justice system,
yeah, totally so.
So I mean it.
It really is one of thosethings where I think that I
think on any level, I think justabout anybody can really feel
both ends of the argument ifthey really look inside
themselves, you know, and think,god, it really isn't fair.

(57:37):
But I still understand thatthere's a reason why the system
exists and why we use it the waywe do, right?
So yeah, I mean, I don't know,that's just, that's a, that's a
pretty big part of the movie,like I don't know.

Speaker 2 (57:50):
That's the whole point of the movie.
Yeah, the, the whole point ofthe movie is, uh, you know,
pretty much like the, theethical quandary, the moral
quandary of you know, like,should these guys be allowed to
do this shit?
Right, you know, like, thepeople that they're killing,
they're bad guys and now they'reall just dead bad guys, right,
um, you know that's that's thewhole thing.
But and then, yeah, you know,with with the interviews there

(58:12):
at the end, I mean, yes, we dohave a legal system and the
system is there for a reason,right, because, again, you know
things that things that don'tscale.
You know, the, the tribaljustice, that's not something
that's going to work right,where you can.
You know you're like, I have astrong sense of right and wrong.
Cool, I'm glad you do.

(58:34):
The guy next to you fuckingdoesn't Right.
And you know, and as, as humanbeings, you know, we're flawed
and we need fucking rulesbecause we're idiots, you know.
And so that's why you have the,that's why you have the legal
system, that's why you have thejustice system, and so that's
why you have the legal system,that's why you have the justice
system, unfortunately and thisis the point that they're

(59:11):
talking about where you've gotbad guys getting off is the way
that law works and the way thatlawyers work is that it's not
about the law and how they'reable to spin it and how they're
able to interpret what that lawactually means in front of the
uh, the judge and the jury, andthen the judge and the jury
makes the decision based off ofthe interpretation and then
they're able to come to theirown conclusions.
There is a huge amount ofpotential manipulation that can
happen with that to where, ifyou have the right lawyer, they
could fucking you know, they canuh interpret their way out of

(59:33):
you know, a guilty verdict.
Just with the way that they putthings, it winds up being, you
know, theater at that point andit's all a game and it's just
making sure that they're able tocome out on top with their
explanation and theirinterpretation of the events and
their interpretation of the lawso that way the conclusions get
steered in the correctdirection.
That's not even coming intocorruption that you can run into

(59:57):
, where the judge gets paid offor the jurors get you know, the
juries get paid off.
You know things like that.
Like, yeah, we see that shitget you know in movies all the
time.
But you bet your ass, ithappens all the fucking time in
the really real world.
Uh, nobody is impossible tofind, you know, as as much as
they try to make peopleanonymous, uh, you know, for

(01:00:17):
juries to where you can't findtheir addresses and shit like
that, ah, bullshit, anybody canfind you.
And then you know you can scarethe piss out of somebody to
where they wind up giving aguilty or not guilty verdict or
you pay them off, you know, andthen they they wind up saying
whatever the hell you want andjury duty doesn't pay that
fucking well, you know you handsomebody 30 grand, tax-free 30

(01:00:40):
grand.
30 grand, fuck him, he didn't,it's not my mom, he killed hell
with it.

Speaker 1 (01:00:45):
I'll take the 30 grand yeah, I, uh, I like that
crow reference um, really realworld.

Speaker 2 (01:00:52):
I use that all the time.
Yes, I know it's a really realworld.

Speaker 1 (01:00:56):
Yes, that is the thing I say all the time um,
yeah, just shoot back to crow ifyou haven't, if you haven't
listened to that episode, goback and listen to that one.

Speaker 2 (01:01:04):
That one also has derrick in it uh from from
season one and that could beanother one.
You know that's another onewhere you could argue vigilante
justice in that one, right, youknow he came back from the dead
to kill the guys that killed him.
If you're looking at it from amoral and ethical standpoint, is
that a right thing to do?
Well, no, I mean, killing iswrong.
But if you're killing badpeople, does that make it less

(01:01:25):
wrong?
And that's that's where you getlike the whole ending credits
of the.
The the boondock saints is, uh,you know, is people pretty much
let's get busy.

Speaker 1 (01:01:34):
Yeah, right that that that guy is my favorite.

Speaker 2 (01:01:39):
It's people coming to terms with their own uh, you
know, their own ethics and theirown morals and what, uh what,
what they're comfortable with.
I mean, how many times have weheard somebody say you know dead
pedophiles don't?
You know, don't recommit right?
Or how many times you know usliving in the Midwest, how many
times have you heard you knowdude breaks into my house?
That'll be the last time hedoes it, right, you know,

(01:02:02):
because you know he was a badguy, Exactly yeah.
We don't call 911 in this houseexactly I uh.

Speaker 1 (01:02:08):
I saw another good one, uh, one of the families I
serve has a sign that says, uh,we use wireless, uh, wireless
home protection, jesus, and ithas a picture of a gun with a
bullet coming out I was likeokay, that's good, I like that
that's, that's creative.

Speaker 2 (01:02:27):
You got to give them that one.
But I mean, you know, we'veI've had numerous conversations
with people talking about Luigiin the same context, you know
with what happened.
You know with the other, thehealth insurance guy, like, I'm
not going to say what he did wasthe right thing to have done.
I can understand where he camefrom.

(01:02:47):
I'm not going to say it was theright thing to have done.
I can understand where he camefrom.
I'm not gonna say it was theright thing to do.
I am gonna say that Iunderstand where he came from.
In that, because it's the samekind of thing where you've got,
you've got people that areplaying the system and you have
people that are poor and sickand vulnerable, that are getting
taken advantage of and gettingfucked over.
And somebody said, and somebodyfinally just broke and said you
know what, enough, and theyfucking did something about it.

(01:03:09):
I'm not saying what they didwas the right thing to do, but
they just they did somethingabout it.
And then you have your ownethics and your own sense of
morals and whatnot on how youcan justify or disagree with
whatever, what was, whatever wasdone.
This is exactly what we'retalking about with Boondock
Saints.
All of those guys that gotkilled, all of them bad guys,

(01:03:31):
every last one of them.
Some of those guys had families, right, They've got kids and
shit.
So those are kids that nowdon't have parents because they
got killed for being bad guys.
But you can look at it as beinga law-abiding citizen going
fuck that guy.
He was a bad guy.
He's now, he's a dead bad guy.
Fuck him Right.

Speaker 1 (01:03:50):
Well, I mean.
I think I think the most aptway I think I've ever heard it
put is I don't agree with it.
I understand it, but I don'tagree with it Like Chris rock
talking about OJ Simpson, right,right.

Speaker 2 (01:04:03):
I Jay should have killed his wife, but I
understand.

Speaker 1 (01:04:08):
Yeah, now I'm not saying that, you know, making
jokes about, you know, spousalor child abuse is funny no, it's
not funny.
But like that whole thing, yeah, I understand it.
I don't agree with it, but Iunderstand it.
Yeah, and I think that's okaytoo.
I think that's an okay, but Iunderstand it.

(01:04:29):
Um, and I, I think that's okaytoo.
I think that's an okay positionto have on it.
Um, so if I were to ask you ifyou had medicine in this movie,
what would you tell me?
It is.

Speaker 2 (01:04:41):
Don't know.
To be perfectly honest on thatone, I would say probably, uh,
you know, probably a strongsense of justice.
Um, maybe not a strong sense ofright and wrong, Uh, but you
know, yeah, there's, there'sprobably a strong sense of
justice in this.
Um, you know, definitely astrong sense of camaraderie of
sorts.
You know with, uh, you know,between the, uh, the two
brothers, Rocco, uh, you know,when Billy Connolly comes in,

(01:05:05):
you know as the uh, the the Duke.
Uh, you know the.
Or you know as the uh, the theDuke.
Uh, you know the.
Or you know Duffy and the cop,or not Duffy, but uh, Willem
Dafoe and the other the cops.
Um, you know, like, definitelyvery much like sticking with
your tribe.
You know if you will.
You know your particular groupsand taking it upon yourself to
protect your what's important toyou.

(01:05:26):
Um, I w I would say if therewas some sort of a medicinal
value that you're looking for, Iwould say it's probably that uh
, uh, you know understandingwhat's important to you and you
know showing value for it.
We're showing showing how muchit's valuable to you.

Speaker 1 (01:05:41):
That's a good one.
I like that.
Actually, that is kind ofunexpected, um, kind of
unexpected, um.
So, like you've actually givenme, you've given me more to take
from this movie than than I hadbeen.
Uh, so I appreciate that.
Thank you, um, for for me, themedicine is actually right

(01:06:01):
square in the beginning, likeone of one of the first lines
spoken uh, by by one of thepriests, and it's kind of the
reason why I've decided to notkeep my mouth shut Uh, when it
comes to, uh, when it comes topeople speaking ignorantly, uh
and and, uh and and, out of turnthe uh, when, when the priest

(01:06:27):
he says, uh, you know that thereis another kind of evil that we
don't often acknowledge andthat is the indifference of good
men, when people stand by andlet injustice happen when they
could have stepped in.
I think that that is probablythe most profound thing that

(01:06:51):
I've taken from this movie isthat I can't stand by and let
things happen anymore.

Speaker 2 (01:06:59):
Can't give in to the Genovese syndrome.

Speaker 1 (01:07:01):
Right, and I have a yearly reminder, which is kind
of nice.
I mean, the fact that I want towatch this movie on on St
Paddy's day every year is justit's because of the movie, uh,
but, but it is nice having thatreminder every year that, hey,
you don't, you don't stand byand let injustice happen, right,

(01:07:25):
uh, so that's that's what it isfor me.

Speaker 2 (01:07:30):
Um, I have a feeling you're going to be running into
that a lot over the uh, the nextuh, the next couple of years.

Speaker 1 (01:07:39):
It's gonna it's gonna keep me busy.
Uh, honestly, I think I almost,I almost wish I got paid for it
, because, like, it's going tobe like a second job, um, so
yeah, uh, well, thanks forthanks for having, uh, having
the the gumption to come on andtalk about, you know, such a

(01:08:01):
hard and over an hour.

Speaker 2 (01:08:02):
So yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:08:11):
Now, we did get distracted.
My producer pointed out we gotdistracted quite a bit.

Speaker 2 (01:08:18):
You know, in our defense she's supposed to be the
babysitter.

Speaker 1 (01:08:21):
She is yeah, so I mean we'll, we'll go ahead and
lay that blame.
I knew that would, I knew thatwould be.
So, yeah, all right.
Well, uh, if, uh, if you've gota movie or anything that uh
that's moved you or beenmedicine for you, you can uh let

(01:08:41):
me know, come on the show.
Uh just send me an email at uhcontact at movie dash rxcom.
Uh, you can also send me a textmessage or a voicemail at
402-519-5790.
Other than that, I guess we'llsee you at the next appointment.

(01:09:03):
Thank you.