DUNE (1984) ft. Jim

Across the vast desert of cinematic history stands a towering, contentious monolith: David Lynch's Dune. As this ambitious adaptation celebrates its 40th anniversary this December, father-son hosting duo Jim and Dr. Benjamin unpack what makes this film such a fascinating cultural artifact despite its commercial failure.

The journey begins with personal connections—Jim discovering the film as a theater manager when it was the only VHS his boss would purchase for rental, and Benjamin watching a carefully edited version provided by a childhood friend. Both describe how the film's complex political themes and unique visual style left them contemplating its depths for days afterward, ultimately leading them to Frank Herbert's seminal novel.

This episode dives deep into the production details that made Dune 1984 such an ambitious undertaking: 200 sets constructed across 16 sound stages, three square miles of Mexican desert hand-cleared by 200 workers, and a star-studded cast including Jürgen Prochnow, Patrick Stewart, Max von Sydow, and even Sting. The hosts explore how Lynch approached the adaptation as an art piece rather than straightforward storytelling—creating something that feels more like an impressionistic painting than a literal translation.

What emerges is a fascinating discussion about adaptation itself. From the controversial "weirding modules" to the over-the-top portrayal of Baron Harkonnen, Lynch's creative choices reveal the essential challenges of translating dense literary works to the screen. Yet despite its deviations and commercial failure, the film created enduring mental images that shaped how generations of readers visualized characters when returning to Herbert's novels.

Whether you're a longtime fan of the spice-filled universe or curious about this cult classic, this episode offers a thoughtful exploration of why even flawed adaptations can open doorways to profound literary journeys. Join us for this nostalgic yet insightful examination of plans within plans, walking without rhythm, and the enduring legacy of a notorious box office disappointment.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 2 (00:21):
Hello and welcome to MovieRx Recreational Use, where
we set healing aside and watchjust to feel good.
I am your prescribing doctor,dr Benjamin, and joining me
today is sort of a phenom of apodcaster A regular host on
several podcasts, such as theOrbital Sword Babylon Project
podcast, the Honorverse Todaypodcast and, as it would be

(00:41):
relevant to today's episode, theHonorverse Today podcast and,
as it would be relevant totoday's episode, one of the
regular hosts on the Dune Sagapodcasts as well, where they
talk about the books, the moviesand pretty much all things Dune
, but not only all of that.
As a nod to Father's Day, he'salso my dad, so today I have Jim

(01:02):
.
Welcome Dad.
Hey, how you doing?
I'm doing great and it's beenreally kind of hard waiting as

(01:26):
long as I have to do this movieof unpack on this one being that
it's a 40-year-old movie thisyear.

Speaker 1 (01:34):
I know.

Speaker 2 (01:34):
It's hard to believe December of this year it's 40
years old, and so some of thebasic info.
I'm going to go ahead and justkind of toss that out there
right now.
This movie was released in 1984, directed and the screenplay
was written by David Lynch.
He kind of did both of thoseand normally I would also put

(01:58):
who stars in the movie.
But there's a shitload ofpeople in this movie.
So we're, and we've pretty muchgot a whole section of people
in this movie.
So, uh, we're, we're, and we'vepretty much got a whole section
devoted to that later on.
So I'm not even going to go intowho's in this movie, but uh, um
, but one of the one of thethings that I noticed when
looking through your talkingpoints is that you've got, uh,

(02:19):
uh, like a lot of the stuff inthis was stuff that kind of
coincided with with what I wasthinking.
Uh, uh, about this episode.
Oh, so I just kind of I justkind of mashed them together and
just made, just made it.
So it's like going to be justkind of a back and forth sort of
thing.
So, uh, the first one I have isis discovering Dune.
So, uh, tell, tell me aboutyour experience coming into this

(02:43):
movie.

Speaker 1 (02:44):
Okay, I had, I had heard about Dune a long time ago
, Okay, I mean, way before themovie came out, people were
walking all over the placecarrying a copy of the book with
them as I was growing up.
But you know, the book was likefive inches thick and that was a
little bit for me to pick up on, and so I I didn't, I didn't

(03:09):
bother trying to read it and Ithought maybe one day I will
read it.
So, uh, fast forward to severalyears later, when I was running
the fox Theater in Sydney,nebraska, and the person I
worked for at the time, who wasactually he was very good to me,

(03:33):
but he did something thatreally, really disgusted me and
he went and he bought a videostore and put it in the lobby of
the movie theater.
Yeah, now that sounds bizarre,okay, but at that particular

(03:55):
time, which was like 40 yearsago, there were a lot of
theaters that were doing thatbecause people weren't going to
the movies to watch the moviesin the theater, and so theater
owners thought we're just goingto grab that revenue from the

(04:15):
rentals also.

Speaker 2 (04:18):
Well, and I mean it kind of detracts from the whole
experience of going to a movietheater.
Well, yeah, yeah, detracts fromthe whole, from the whole
experience of going to a movietheater.
Well, yeah, yeah, I mean, whenyou're going to a movie theater,
it's supposed to be.
I.
I mean it doesn't really feelmuch like that anymore, because
so much of it is is, you know,you can watch in theater movies
at home and things like that nowand whatever.

(04:40):
But it used to be going furtherback in history it was.
It was just more of a like aglamorous sort of thing almost
for some people.
Yeah, but what's what's?

Speaker 1 (04:52):
I mean it was what's a movie theater now?
It's a.
It's a damn pole shed wherethey put up a few screens and
projectors Right, and seats tothe floor right and both seats
to the floor.
I mean the theaters when, whenI was young, were ornate.

(05:13):
I mean you might have five setsof curtains opening up before
the show starts and right, youknow they were pretty, all this
sculpture and and things likethat and that's's.
It was yes, it was anexperience, but that's kind of
gone by the wayside.
Throw up some pole sheds andput up eight or ten screens in

(05:33):
there and you know.

Speaker 2 (05:37):
Yeah, and then on top of that you've I mean, if you
could imagine that kind of stuffbeing done today, if video
rental stores were in any waysort of relevant today, you'd
have people showing up in theiryou know sweatpants to rent a
movie, to take company eveningsout, and things like that, when

(05:58):
people are supposed to belooking good, and then they show
up in sweatpants to rent amovie.
It's just nothing.

Speaker 1 (06:20):
No, it's.
I, boss, went and bought thisvideo store and put it up, and
these great big boards that hadledges on them across the front
of the theater covered all thewindows, all right, and put
these stupid movies up on theseracks.

(06:40):
And people were coming in andlooking and saying, oh, we've
already seen this, and walkingout and I'll tell you what it.
It crashed in in a matter ofdays.
Okay, so, and one of the maincomplaints that people had that
were coming in is why aren't yougetting any new movies in here?

Speaker 2 (07:03):
Well, in the movie theater.

Speaker 1 (07:05):
Right.
So I call, I call up to theboss and I tell him hey, you
know, people are complaining.
They've seen all this crap thatthey want to see.
They want new stuff.
And so he bought Dune 1984.
All right, that was.

(07:31):
Believe it or not, for the restof the time that I was at the
Fox Theater, that is the onlynew movie he bought.
Now.
Now you can laugh, because youcan.
You know, vhs tapes are nolonger there.
When they when they were, youget $5.99 for any movie.
Believe it or not, those movieswere 70 bucks.

Speaker 2 (07:50):
Right, actually, I remember the first time, the
first time you went and bought amovie before, like when it was
still in that rental phase.
Yeah, I remembered, you boughta copy of Mr Holland's Opus and
it was $99.
Well, do you remember that?

Speaker 1 (08:07):
I don't know if I I don't remember that I don't.

Speaker 2 (08:10):
But Well, maybe, maybe mom ordered it for you or
something, but I rememberedlooking at it and being like $99
for a tape.
Like you can get tapes atWalmart for like 15 bucks.

Speaker 1 (08:22):
Well, when Dune was released on VHS tape, um, it was
, it was $70.
And so that?
So that was the only new moviewe got.
So I, um, grabbed a machine andtook it home, brought Dune home
, sat down, watched it, sat down, watched it and I'll tell you

(08:43):
what.
I walked around after I sawthat movie and thought about it
for days and it was really neat,and I even caught myself
walking without rhythm once in awhile.

Speaker 2 (09:05):
You know it was hard for a music man to do, but yeah
but it just seemed as thoughthere was.

Speaker 1 (09:13):
There was something about the story that really made
me think it was so darn deepand I mean, this is just the
movie, right?
So, um, that's kind of where Iwent to.
Uh, I, I knew I had to read thebook, so that's that's kind of

(09:35):
how I got into that.

Speaker 2 (09:36):
I went and bought a paperback copy of the book and,
uh, the rest is, as we say,history well and Well, and I
suspect that that paperback copyof the book is the one that I
started reading.
If I remember right, yeah, mostlikely the way that I came into

(09:58):
this movie was one of myfriends, adam.
You remember Adam, oh, yeah,yeah, well, adam had given me,
uh, the opportunity to watch it.
I I don't remember if, if hehad it like recorded off a
television or something, I, butit was very carefully done, so
that the, so that the, uh, the,the commercials were edited out

(10:22):
very, very well, um, but I, Iwas just enamored with this
story, this movie, the, the, the, the way that it made me think
about, uh, about all kinds ofcrazy things that that I never
would have.
Uh, I don't think that my mind,as young as I was at the time,

(10:43):
god, don't think that my mind,as young as I was at the time,
god, I think I was probably, Iwas probably 12 or 13 and and it
just and it just kind of it, itlike it did with you, it just
kind of rolled with me for awhile where I was, I was
constantly thinking back to thevarious different things, the
plans within plans and and allof that stuff and, and that, I

(11:04):
think, was kind of what kind ofkickstarted my political mind,
um, at such a young age, and so,like you, um, watching the
movie made me want to read thebook.
But what I remember aboutfinding the book was that I had
to go digging through so manydamn boxes in the garage to find

(11:25):
it, and when I finally did, thelast third of the book had
gotten wet with either water oroil or something and it was all
pasted together, and so I couldonly read the first two thirds
of the book and I had to and Ihad to very carefully pry the

(11:47):
last, the last pages apart, andI could only get about two pages
of that before before, likethey just start ripping each
other apart, oh, um, andinvariably I ended up having to
wait until I got into, uh, untilI got into a school, uh, that
that actually had it on theirshelves.
I don't know that this is abook that you'd find on shelves
in schools anymore.

Speaker 1 (12:09):
Well, I'll tell you what I just retired.
It's going on two years and,yes, there were three copies of
Dune in our library At yourschool, at school.
That's awesome, and the reasonfor that is the librarian had no
idea what was in the book.

Speaker 2 (12:30):
I would imagine.

Speaker 1 (12:31):
And of course it was the movie.
The first newest iteration ofDune was brand new.

Speaker 2 (12:40):
Right.
Was it like a movie cover bookor was it like an original cover
book that they had?

Speaker 1 (12:54):
It was actually a copy, I think, of one of the
earlier covers with the sandwormon the front, nice.
Yeah that's cool, that'sawesome.
Yeah, so we had about threecopies of it cause a lot of kids
wanted to, wanted to read it.
Uh, I don't know any of themthat made it through.

Speaker 2 (13:15):
And it's it is, can it can be kind of a hard read.
Um, if, if you're not into, ifyou're not into the cerebral
part of the story, I think itwould be kind of difficult to
read.

Speaker 1 (13:27):
as far as a book goes , it's going to be hard to read
for a sixth grader, that is,that has an IQ of less than 150.

Speaker 2 (13:36):
Right right, um now.
Now we've kind of we kind oftalked about the movie, getting
into it, getting into the booksa little bit.
Now I think something thatmight be kind of important to
talk about is the popularity ofthis movie.
It's not popular.

(13:58):
There are, I mean, even peoplewho love Dune, hate this movie.

Speaker 1 (14:07):
Yeah, and I know I know several people like that.

Speaker 2 (14:12):
Lots of people like that my, my producer and wife
Jen.
She loves the new movies andshe loves to talk about Dune and
she loves to talk about Dune.
But I went to go review thislast night for this recording
today and she noped out and wentand took a bath to read a
different book.

(14:33):
She just wanted nothing to do.
No, I'm okay, I'll go do thatand I mean I get it.
I understand it's a 40-year-oldmovie, but as far as 40 years
ago, this was kind of a, thiswas kind of a a monumental thing

(14:53):
.
Uh, I mean, they were, theywere using cutting edge
technology for the time, which,when you look back on it now, is
kind of, eh, I mean they had,they had some some pretty big
names and everything in thismovie.
Um, like, I mean, like you'vegot on here the, the whole list

(15:14):
of the cast, uh, pretty much anduh, as, as people that were
just kind of huge like a reallybig deal.
Juergen Prognoff, huge, like areally big deal, juergen
Prognoff, uh uh.
Max von Sydow, um, patrickStewart, richard Jordan, which I
didn't really remember muchabout Richard Jordan until I

(15:36):
went, you know, looking in theID IMDB.
Dean Stockwell, sting come on,now, this is Sting was in this
movie.
Mm-hmm.
Um, I mean, uh, shaddam IV, uh,what is it?
Uh, jose Ferrer, yes, um.
Stilgar Everett McGill, uh,linda Hunt I mean if, if there

(15:58):
isn't, if there isn't a moremonumental short woman in in
movie history, it's Linda Hunt.

Speaker 1 (16:05):
Oh, oh yeah and then I also had to.
She was big stuff.
Uh yeah, around that time andshe was, if I recall correctly
there was a movie with mid-ironold schweizer nigger who who
played a kindergarten teacher,kindergarten cop, and his
principal was Linda Hunt wasLinda Hunt and she's half as

(16:29):
tall as he is and she'd look upand rip him out.

Speaker 2 (16:34):
That shit was awesome .

Speaker 1 (16:36):
It was great Kindergarten cop yeah.

Speaker 2 (16:39):
And then, uh, and then I had to add one on there
that I that I didn't have, uh,that you didn't have on your
list, and that's Brad Dorif.
Uh, he played Piter.
Um, he was also Chucky and, ohgosh, yeah, he's been everywhere
he, he's uh, he is what it inorder to kind of jab at my

(17:00):
producer a little bit, here he'son he's, he's a criminal minds
guy.
At my producer a little bit,here he's on he's, he's a
criminal minds guy.
Anybody who's anybody has beenon criminal minds as a bad guy,
including Mark Hamill, bradDourif Uh, I mean all those guys
.
Brad Dourif was was probablythe most memorable bad guy
because he plays that crazy shitwell.

(17:22):
And he did, and he did it inthis one too, even as, even as a
mentat, so, uh, I mean heavy,heavy, heavy hitting cast with a
lot of really, uh, crazy ideas.
I I'm I'm assuming that peopleback at that time I mean you,
you were around it like you were, you were in the industry when
this stuff, when this stuff cameout and happened and everything

(17:44):
, so you would have more of anidea of how people received the.
The list of people on this cast, um, like I mean the fact that
sting was in a movie, like thatkind of stuff now is just like
it's, it's like token stuff,it's like, oh, we're going to
throw that in there just so thatwe can make a couple extra

(18:04):
bucks.
The Rock was one of thosethings back in the late 90s,
early 2000s.
Let's put him in this mummymovie, or whatever.

Speaker 1 (18:13):
Well, they didn't push any particular cast person,
with the exception of Kyle, theexception of, uh, kyle
McLaughlin, right, you know um,they, they didn't really say,
ooh, sting is in this.
You know they, they didn'tmarket it that way, which?

Speaker 2 (18:35):
probably, probably, did a lot for the movie.
Um, I think in the long run, uh, although I mean honestly me, a
younger me tell me that stingis in a movie and I'm going to
be like, okay, cool, I'm goingto watch it, just because I
think it'd be funnier now, um,so, yeah, I mean, the cast in

(18:57):
this movie was pretty, pretty,uh, uh, formidable.
Um, the soundtrack, Toto.

Speaker 1 (19:05):
Well, let's, let's not move off the cast yet.

Speaker 2 (19:08):
but you've got something about the cast A
little, a little a few, a fewthings.

Speaker 1 (19:13):
First of all, as you said, this is a great cast.
I mean, you cannot argue withthat list of list of people, but
they, the cast, affected how Ienjoyed the movie.
Okay, to this day, if I'msitting and reading a Dune book,

(19:36):
and they are still writing them.
Brian Herbert and Kevin JAnderson are still writing them.
I just read one, the first of anew series, Juergen Prochnov.
Anytime they say Duke Lito,juergen Prochnov is who hits
here.
Okay, now that's not to saythat Isaacs, who the new?

Speaker 2 (20:03):
what's his first?

Speaker 1 (20:04):
name Jason Isaacs, who the new?
Um, what's his first name?
Uh, jason isaac.
Jason isaacs, who is the newduke leto, did an outstanding
job.
So I'm not doing a comparisonhere of the cast, because I
think the cast of both moviesare incredible.
Okay, but jürgen prochnov comesacross as duke leto and patrick

(20:29):
stewart was gurney.
When I read about gurney,that's the picture I see.
Uh, richard jordan uh, he, Ithink he really got big in
logan's.

Speaker 2 (20:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (20:43):
Yeah, but but um he, he was great.

Speaker 2 (20:49):
Um, why I was thinking Jason, it's Oscar Isaac
.

Speaker 1 (20:52):
Oscar Isaac Okay, thanks, uh.
Jose Ferrer has been a giantfor ever, okay, um, and, and
just playing all different kindsof parts.
Everett mcgill I mean he wasn'tstellar, but he was cool, right

(21:14):
.
Of course we already talkedabout linda hunt, but some of
these people, those are theimages that come back to my mind
as I read the books.

Speaker 2 (21:26):
Right, and for me a lot of it is actually kind of
similar, or it had been for along time, because I think I've
read the first Dune book likesix times now.

Speaker 1 (21:40):
I think I've got you beat by two or three times.

Speaker 2 (21:43):
Right and and so, like I, just I kind of, as when
I, when I get to a new readingof it, depending on what my,
what my exposure has been, iskind of how, is kind of how it
changes Like what my, what myvision is, which, let me tell
you, if I were to build a dunemovie with the dune movies that

(22:04):
have been made so far, the moviewould just look completely,
completely different, becauseit's it's crazy, um, oscar isaac
has unfortunately kind ofreplaced that place for me, uh
and yeah, but when, when I'mthinking about it in terms of

(22:26):
being on Caledon, it's JuergenProchnov.

Speaker 1 (22:32):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (22:33):
So it's like so.
I, I, I get these different,these different, uh, characters
with different people, just kindof in my head as I'm reading
people, just kind of in my headas I'm reading um, and I, I had
this guy was not on my radar atall, I wasn't interested in

(22:53):
aquaman or any of that stuff,but let me tell you what kind of
of influence um, that, uh, thatjason momoa had.
As far as the duncan charactergoes, the thing that was most, I
I think, the most depressingfor me in the first, in the
first dune movie in in the inthe 1984 dune, is that duncan

(23:19):
wasn't really a part of themovie.
He was in there for two scenesyes uh, one of them was when he
was getting carried away.
You know, like it just the, the, they.
They had missed someopportunities to really
capitalize on that, on that, youknow, that friendship between

(23:40):
paul and duncan, the most thatthey did was was, you know, have
a good smile at the end of of aconversation and then part ways
or whatever.
It really seemed lacking inthat way.
But the, the, the camaraderiebetween them, uh, in in the
newest movie I view Duncan whenhe's interacting as as uh with

(24:06):
with Paul.
I see that's where I see JasonMomoa, um, but, yeah, I mean, as
, as far as the cast on thismovie goes, uh, I mean, I, I
loved them all, I mean, and atthe, at the initial viewing of
this, it was all I had to go offof.
Yeah, I mean, and at theinitial viewing of this, it was

(24:28):
all I had to go off of.
Yeah, but later on, you know,when SyFy came out with their
version, it changed a little bitabout what's not so good about
this movie, that the characterthat I, that that I like from
the second one, from the sci-fiseries, kind of comes up a

(24:51):
little bit there.
Now, what do you, what do youthink about I've got on here
that that you wanted to talk alittle bit about David Lynch's
attempt, the way that youpersonally interpreted, yeah,
what David Lynch wanted to dowith this movie.

Speaker 1 (25:08):
All right, I don't believe and I don't know.
I have not researched this, Ihave not read anything about it,
but what I saw, and how itstruck me, is that David Lynch
was not making a story of Dune.

(25:30):
It wasn't Frank Herbert's, itwas David Lynch's Dune and he
was making art.
I think he was trying to makean art piece, hearkening back to
the old days of film, whenmovies were an art Right and had

(25:52):
gotten away from it where itwas just, you know, a lot of
action and car chases and stufflike that.

Speaker 2 (25:59):
Almost kind of like how people are viewing the
Jodoworskis Dune.
Kind of like how people areviewing the the jodoworski's
dune.

Speaker 1 (26:07):
Like how, how that was more artistic than it was
like supposed to be true to thebook yeah and yeah, you know, uh
, almost like an impressionisticpainting, you know, uh, it
isn't exactly what it represents, but if you stand back far
enough, it kind of looks rightyou know, yeah, yeah.

(26:28):
So Frank Herbert's dune, thebook was a skeleton for David
Lynch making art and you can seethat I mean when they, they
love, he loved to do the flyoverpictures of the sand dunes, yep
, of the desert, okay, and therewere colors and textures and

(26:53):
different lighting and thingslike that.
That just really enhanced thatexperience.
The sets were just amazing inthis movie.

Speaker 2 (27:07):
They had over 200 sets on 16 sound stages.
Yeah To make this movie, yeahthat is massive.

Speaker 1 (27:16):
Yes, and they were all incredible and, and things
like that.
This was supposed to be a pieceof art, and if you went into
the theater or if you watch thevideo with that in mind, it's a
little easier to look at.
Yeah, if you go into the moviethinking, oh, I'm going to see

(27:40):
frank her's story, you are goingto be disappointed.

Speaker 2 (27:46):
Right, yeah, and I mean that's, that's also, I mean
that's kind of an importantdistinguish, uh distinguishing
thing for a lot of movies, Ithink.
Uh, I mean we're in the age ofremakes and reboots.

Speaker 1 (28:00):
We have been for 30 years.

Speaker 2 (28:02):
Everybody's remaking and rebooting everything, and so
I think that something that'sreally important to remember
when going into these rebootedmovies is that it's is that a
lot of these directors and moviemakers are not trying to
recreate whatever it is thatthat we're seeing.

(28:23):
They're just giving a differentperspective.
They're they're giving theirown version of the story, yeah,
um, which, which is why I alwayssay they could come out with a
new iteration of Dune every 10years for the rest of my life.
And I'm a fucking happy guybecause, because I love seeing
people's vision of this storyand and David Lynch is no

(28:45):
different for me, um, because Ilove seeing people's vision of
this story, and David Lynch isno different for me.
Now, I also know that theactress that played Lady Jessica
, francesca Annis she broke thesilence on some stuff with this

(29:06):
movie.
Oh, uh, yeah she.
She came forward, uh, as earlyas the premiere for this movie
and talked about how, how DavidLynch's vision for this movie
had been corrupted and destroyedby oh, what is his name?

(29:31):
Dino De Laurentiis.
Yeah, dino De Laurentiis.
He destroyed everything thatDavid Lynch was trying to do
with this movie, and that's whyDavid Lynch considers this to be
his greatest failure is becausehe let somebody else skew all

(29:54):
of the little minor details andeverything that he wanted to do
with this film and take completecontrol over, and it changed
his whole vision of what hewanted as a film and that's
ultimately why there was never adirector's cut.

Speaker 1 (30:15):
There is actually a director's cut.
There is actually a director'scut Mm-hmm Okay which is
approximately four hours long.

Speaker 2 (30:23):
Right, yeah, the four-hour long version and that
had incorporated as much of thematerial that he was allowed to
have.
But there were so many thingsthat he wasn't allowed to even
film because, because DeLaurentiis wouldn't allow it
yeah, wouldn't procure the filmfor, or, you know, wouldn't

(30:45):
allow him the time to travel for, or anything like that.

Speaker 1 (30:49):
Let's face it, who's a two hour movie?
This, this dune dune 84, isabout an hour or two.
Excuse me, two and a quarterhours long, right, okay?
So, uh, dealer rent has figuredyou're not going to get people

(31:10):
to sit still for much longerthan that.
And he's probably right,because the I I did kind of
watch and it was on YouTube.
I don't know if you can get itanymore, but the entire Dune
movie was on YouTube for a longtime, Jeez, and you could watch
the entire four hour thing andthe thing.

(31:34):
So a lot of the stuff that wasmissing out of the release, like
like the battle with jamisbefore, yeah, before paul became
was in there and wow, and paulhaving to take uh, jamis' wife

(31:54):
as his wife, which caused a lotof complications with Chani yes,
with Chani was included inthere, wow.

Speaker 2 (32:08):
I had no idea.

Speaker 1 (32:10):
And you know Paul getting Jameis' coffee service
designating him the head ofJamis's.
I mean, all that stuff was inthere and it was a lot more
Frank Herbert than the releasewas because of that Because of
those things.

(32:30):
Yeah, yes, but I don't know ifthat full version is.
Is um out there anymore?

Speaker 2 (32:40):
Um, it might still be on YouTube.
I'll have to take a look andsee.
Uh, that'd be kind ofinteresting to to review.

Speaker 1 (32:48):
Yeah, but it was uh yeah, and it's been a long, long
time since I saw it.
That's why I say it may or maynot be there.
That's crazy.

Speaker 2 (32:56):
But yeah, the, yeah, the man, the amount of work that
went into making this movie.
I'm going to take a moment here.
We're going to jump down here alittle bit on the list here.
I want to go through sometrivia real quick, just some

(33:18):
interesting little bits aboutthis movie.
So this movie in its time costan estimated $40 million to make
.
Its box office return in both Uboth US and Mexico was $31.5
million.

(33:38):
It was $8.5 million shy ofreplacing its own budget, that
kind of sucks, although it hadlike a $6 million opening
weekend.
That's pretty incredible.
Featured Jurgen Prochnoff andMax von Sydow.

(34:00):
This is not the last time thatthose two would be featured on
screen in a movie together.
They were later seen togetherin another movie with Sylvester
Stallone playing the lure injudge dread in, uh, in the
nineties.

Speaker 1 (34:20):
Yeah, okay.

Speaker 2 (34:21):
Yeah, um, let's see here, uh, another, another goofy
little fun fact the tendonsunder the worms plating are
reported to be condoms.
They used they usedprophylactics to make tendons on
that part of the set.
At some of the theatricalreleases, at some of the

(34:46):
theaters, information sheetsexplaining the world of Dune
were passed out Wow, so thatpeople could actually understand
the vernacular and things likethat.
With with what was going to goon in the movie that they were
about to watch, uh and uh.
Francesca Annis also had, uh,had, something to say about that

(35:08):
at the premiere.
She said any movie that has toexplain itself in detail at the
beginning is in trouble.
So, uh, she, uh, so she, youknow, kind of making a little
poke there at, uh, at irulan'slittle uh uh intro to the movie,
yeah, um, but uh, for the uh,the desert scenes in this movie,

(35:36):
200 workers spent two monthshand clearing three square miles
of Mexican desert for onlocation filming.
So they they hand cleared threemiles, three square miles of of
Mexican desert to make thismovie.
That is insane.

Speaker 1 (35:58):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (35:59):
How well do you suppose they got paid?

Speaker 1 (36:02):
Probably 50 cents a day.

Speaker 2 (36:06):
It kind of reminds me of some of the fun little set
facts that you get from somethings.
Fun little uh set facts thatyou get from from some things.
Um uh.
At the end of last season whenI would I did an episode on
Halloween with Jason, we talkedabout how, uh, they had to pay
people to throw leaves out in aCalifornia suburb so that it

(36:29):
looked like it was in fall Cause.
In Southern California there'sno fall.
No, no, there is no fall so, sothey had to throw leaves out,
and one of the people that wasthrowing leaves out on the
streets to make it look likefall was, uh, uh, the guy who
played freddy, uh, so, yeah,it's, it's.
I love the little set detailsthat they have for these kind of

(36:52):
things.
But, uh, yeah, um, despitebeing considered a financial
flop, uh, it is David Lynch'smovie to make the most money in
its initial box office run, uh,and it's the only one to break
into the top five, and it'sopening weekend, uh, it was
number two.
So, yeah, some, just some funfacts about the movie, and then

(37:20):
number two, and then it wentkind of downhill from there.
Yeah, yeah, modern Dune fansjust don't really care for it.

Speaker 1 (37:31):
Well, old Dune fans, most of them didn't care for it
either.

Speaker 2 (37:34):
Didn't really care for it.
Yeah, yeah, no, I, I reallyenjoyed it Um.
I love the way that it justkind of, I got some trivia for
you.

Speaker 1 (37:43):
Yeah, okay, the original Dune book was published
in 1965 by the Chilton Company.
The Chilton Company, if you'veever heard of the Chilton Manual
, which is the thick, thickbooks with the model of car and

(38:09):
all the parts, and every littlepart and every screw and bolt
and nut in that car is in thatbook and it shows you where to
go right.
Yeah, and that's all thechilton company did until they
published dune for frank herbert.
Oh, wow, yeah, I didn't knowthat.

Speaker 2 (38:27):
Uh, one thing I did know about about uh, his, his
getting published is he workedat a newspaper before.
Yeah, several newspapers.
Yeah, he was a newspaper guy.

Speaker 1 (38:41):
Yeah, he was from San Francisco and he often traveled
to Mexico and back and forth,and he liked to walk along the
beach and and he got a lot ofthe ideas for the dune, for the

(39:07):
conservation parts of the book.
He developed that.
He developed that by whiletaking walks on the beach.
Oh, that's cool yeah the uh.

Speaker 2 (39:19):
So tell me your thoughts on the soundtrack toto
you know it was.

Speaker 1 (39:24):
it was electronic, it was futuristic and it fit.
It worked and it didn't get inthe way of the action unrolling

(39:46):
on the screen.
It fit.
I thought it was extremely welldone and it added a lot of
appeal to the movie.

Speaker 2 (39:55):
I show Jen that Recording See.
Yeah, as far as the music wentlike the recurring theme
throughout the whole movie.
The duh thing, I loved it whenI was a kid and now when I watch

(40:17):
it I'm just like again, againand again.
Not that I appreciate it anyless, it's just like it felt
redundant being used for so muchof the movie.

Speaker 1 (40:34):
Okay, I can see that.
However, um, I don't know, itdidn't it?
It didn't affect me the sameway, because I was not worried
about picking it apart at all,right, and and it was just, it
was there, I think, I think the,the, I think I I'm so used to

(41:00):
watching so many movies thathave leitmotifs where individual
characters have their ownthemes Darth Vader with the
Imperial March, luke Skywalkerwith the Force theme and Leia
with her own theme.

Speaker 2 (41:27):
That kind of stuff is just kind of the way that they
do movies now.
And they, they had oneleitmotif in 1984's Dune and
that was Dune, the Dune themekind of I think.
I think that maybe, if I thinkthe reason why it didn't bother
me so much back then was becauseI wasn't, I wasn't so bombarded
with with everybody havingtheir own theme and everything
that I watched, yeah, um, and,and now it's just now, it's, it
just feels like it's soredundant, but, um, but I mean

(41:52):
as, as even still yeahancy ornot, I still fucking love it.
You know, like when I, as muchas I love the music from the
newest Dune movies which isamazing phenomenal music, which

(42:16):
is amazing phenomenal music whenI make a joke or a Dune
reference in regular life, Istill go da, da, da, da, yeah,
unless it's with my wife, thenit's da, da, da, da, da, da, da,
da, da, da, da, da, da, andthen she gets it, jeez, but

(42:43):
other than that she uh, but yeah, I mean the, the visual
aesthetics in this movie, um, Imean the like, the special
effects were simple buteffective.
Uh, I mean they were huge at thetime.
But you know, like the shields,like it's a little bit of a
Tron throwback sort of thing, Uh, but but I mean that's what
they had, yeah, and and theyused it, and and and it worked.

Speaker 1 (43:05):
Well, even in what I mean by aesthetic is the, the
beauty of the of the film, thebeauty of the sets, the
elaborate carvings and things,the desert scenes, the way the
worm came towards the crawlers,and you know that looked pretty

(43:27):
darn good.

Speaker 2 (43:30):
That was as far as that stuff goes.
That was all perfect, that wasperfection.

Speaker 1 (43:34):
Yeah, now the worm itself looked like a tennis shoe
.
Okay, I can.
Yeah, he was a little clunky,but it's kind of it's it's.
You know, to take somethingthat's in somebody's mind and
make it visual is not an easything to do.

Speaker 2 (43:55):
Well, and not just visual but interactive.
I mean it was, it had to beinteractive for those actors.
Yeah, so like, I mean that roomthat Paul was in with, uh, you
know, and, and the opening upfor the, for the hunter seeker
to come out, and everything likethat, like it was so well
hidden and everything, it wascompletely believable that that

(44:16):
was the room that he was in andthat it was a real piece of work
, you know, and, and not just aset.
Um, when, when Juergen Prognoffis is walking around the castle
, just before he meets up withMapes, as she's, as she's been,
you know, killed, uh, same thing, like you feel like you're in

(44:38):
this castle, yes, um, and, andthat it's all very real.
Uh, and the desert, of coursethe desert was real, it felt
real.
Um, and, and you're right, the,the, the worm moving through
the sand, Mm-hmm, that's aboutwhat I would imagine.
Flying over a desert with agiant sandworm moving under it

(44:59):
would look like I mean, they'vedone visuals with it in other
movies since then that probablymake more sense, but at the time
, oh, like I don't know why, aworm would, would spark, spark
lightning coming from it as it'smoving through sand.

(45:20):
Maybe just some hellacious, youknow, uh, uh, static, you know
static buildup from movingthrough sand, yeah, um, but uh
they don't have dryer sheets inthe future.
They need some bounce.
Damn it.
Yeah, but yeah, it was goodstuff.

(45:41):
I really liked the way thatthis movie looked.
The costumes oh man, as good asthe costumes get in the newest
movies, this movie still showsme what a still suit is supposed
to look like.
Like.
When I imagine a still suit, itis the 1984 Dune that I imagine

(46:05):
, Because it makes so much sense.

Speaker 1 (46:09):
Yeah, Now the ornithopters in the newer movies
Way cooler.

Speaker 2 (46:19):
Yes, because it actually has an optor feel to it
.
Yeah, like thopter, I'm, I'mnot, I'm not picturing a, a what
is it like a flying rhombus,yeah, sort of thing that they
had going on, um, and and in thesci-fi one, I mean, it was like
a, it was almost like a paperairplane or something.
I don't know.
It was weird, yeah, uh, but no,no, I don't know.

(46:43):
I I really loved it.
I liked the, the way that itwas, that it was presented and
and the look of things.
The costumes were great, um,and I don't know, it was just
easy.
It's comfortable for me to sitin and believe it as an
iteration of Dune, maybe not themost accurate to the book, but

(47:09):
I don't require that in orderfor me to enjoy it.
So there's that.
Yep require that in order for meto enjoy it.
So yeah, so there's that, yep,um, now let's talk about some of
the not so good things.
Um, and I'm I'm going to takethe lead on on this one here,
the the very first one that youput in.
I am 100% with you on the Baron.

Speaker 1 (47:31):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (47:32):
In this movie, the Baron Harkonnen was not, was,
was not crazy.
He wasn't a psychopath, he wasa sociopath.
Yeah, so he, he was verycalculated, very, very uh, uh,
uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh,uh, uh, uh, uh.

(47:55):
Calculated, that's really thebest, the best word I can come
up with.
As far as the book is concerned, uh, and really every version,
since this guy was just he, thisguy belonged on a rock stage.
Yeah, fiery red hair, lots ofscreaming and laughing.
It I mean just wow, a littleover the top.

(48:19):
Yeah, um, what I mean?
What else can you say about it?

Speaker 1 (48:24):
well, I, I, yeah, over the top and cartoonish,
very cartoonish, yeah, that thatlaughing and and all that stuff
.
It was just.
It was just, uh, yeah.
And you know I was turned offby the Baron at the beginning of

(48:45):
the movie and what, what?
The first scene we seen thebear we see the Baron in.
He's sitting in that chair andthe doctor is going put the pick
in there, pete and turn itaround really neat, right.
And then he's oh, baron, yourdiseases are loved to me and
he's got all this stuff on.

(49:07):
It's like yeah, that was gross.
Now I, if I'm going to guessand say that's where Jen was out
.

Speaker 2 (49:19):
That was definitely a part where she wasn't really
happy watching.
Yes, yeah.

Speaker 1 (49:25):
Yeah, see the premise for the Dune.
You know he was supposed to beevil because of what his family
has gone through over throughhistory.
But he, but this disease thingand all this other stuff didn't
exist in the book, right?

(49:47):
I mean, do you do you know?
Don't tell anybody.
But but do you know why he wasso overweight?
Did you read the books?

Speaker 2 (50:01):
I do know why.

Speaker 1 (50:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (50:04):
From, and that's books that came later.
Actually, they're pretty recentbooks, aren't they?

Speaker 1 (50:11):
I don't.
Did they explain it?
I don't remember exactly whatseries it's in, but let's just
say that he was cursed because,before what he did to get cursed
, he was a very handsome, verywell you know, and he was cursed

(50:35):
by this person that he wronged.
Sorry, I'm not going to tellyou the details.
Y'all are going to have to readthe books.

Speaker 2 (50:45):
And that's probably going to be the strongest
sentiment at the end of at theend of this episode that my dad
is going to give you all is thatyou just need to go read the
books because, uh, cause, yeah,it's good stuff, a lot of it's a
really good read Now, uh, youalso had mentioned Dr Yui.

Speaker 1 (51:04):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (51:06):
What, uh, what?
What do you think was kind ofthe shortcoming with doc Dr Yui?

Speaker 1 (51:11):
Okay, in and see now I'm.
Now I'm doing, I'm doing what I, what I shouldn't do.
I'm thinking about the book andthen I'm projecting into the
movie when I shouldn't do that.
I saw the movie first.
Uh, I like Dane Stockwell.
However, after I read the bookthere, it was a lot more to Dr

(51:37):
Yui than being a traitor Mm-hmmwho was trying to be reunited
with his wife who were beingheld by the Harkonnens Okay.
In this movie they're notHarkonnens, they're Harkonnens,
they're Harkonnens Okay, whichthey're not Harkonnens, they're
Harkonnens, they're Harkonnens,okay, which is the way I say it

(51:58):
now.

Speaker 2 (51:58):
Anyway, right, but anyway, dr Yui was a much deeper
character and there was a lotmore to him and the movie just
kind of turned him into just asimple traitor and I thought
that was kind of sad Now,something that I don't know, I

(52:19):
haven't really been terriblygood at, but when coming into
this episode, two of the thingsthat I was going to try to avoid
doing was spending too muchtime comparing this movie to the
book.
Doing was spending too muchtime comparing this movie to the
book, and also I wanted toavoid spending too much time

(52:41):
comparing this movie to othermovies.
Yeah, but I think whencomparing the characters, it's
it's a little different.
Dr yui, for for this movie, wasjust way underdone.
Yeah, they, they, they.
They didn't bake him longenough and they just it was very
surfacy, very uh.

(53:02):
There there wasn't enough depthto this character.
He had a great star and sounderused him and they didn't
utilize his talent.
And then in in the sci-fiminiseries, they overdid it.
Yes, I mean, they had him weepyand all of this other stuff

(53:25):
like really confiding in LadyJessica about his wife and all
this other stuff, and theyoverdid it.
And the newest one I feel likeit was perfect Dr UA in in the
newest movie I think they wroteperfectly Um that, that stoic,

(53:45):
souk conditioning, yeah, um, youknow, but also with that, that
fiery underpassion for his wifeand everything like that.
Like, I feel like they did areally great job balancing the
too much, too little that thefirst two movies got.

Speaker 1 (54:05):
Yeah, I know it's hard not to compare.

Speaker 2 (54:12):
But sometimes you just gotta.

Speaker 1 (54:13):
A lot of my impressions about certain things
were formed after I'd read thebook, Right, so yeah.

Speaker 2 (54:24):
Now I I kind of flip flap on this one.
How do you feel about theweirding modules?

Speaker 1 (54:32):
Oh yeah, they were weird, all right, um, uh, I
don't.
I I cannot imagine what thosewere about unless I.
To me they're deus ex machinayeah right now.
That was.
That was when I saw the movieand I hadn't read the book.

(54:55):
I felt that way about him.
I mean it's like you know, yeah, you can use sound as a weapon.
I mean, we're doing it now,right, but to have this portable
thing hanging around your neck,you know, and then blow stuff
up, e-job, yeah, my name is akilling word.
Yeah, hanging around your neck,you know, and then blow stuff
up.
Yee-haw yeah.

Speaker 2 (55:16):
My name is a killing word.

Speaker 1 (55:18):
Yeah, I just I felt like it was kind of a shortcut,
yeah, To make things easier toadvance the story maybe faster,
maybe.

Speaker 2 (55:36):
Also, each time I read the book, I always felt
that the weirding was.
It always felt much more like amartial art to me, yeah, and so
it was like, but I mean not notjust a martial art, like I mean

(55:57):
there was, there was some mindaspect to it and stuff like that
.
But it was like uh, but, but itjust felt like, you know, like
wing chun or something, you knowlike uh kung fu, but when, when
you, when you take the weirdingmodules, it takes away from

(56:18):
that discipline that theweirding required.
Yeah, the thing that that Paulwas able to give to the Fremen
you know to, to make them evenmore effective than they already
were, and and and all thisother stuff.

(56:39):
I think that I think that a lotof it might've also had to do
with the difference betweenacting now and acting then.

Speaker 1 (56:47):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (56:48):
Back then, actors were actors.
Now actors are actors and whenthey're playing a part that
requires them to learn kung fu,they fucking learn kung fu, like
it's just.
That's just the way that it is.
Yeah, so you know how it worksin hollywood.

Speaker 1 (57:05):
You hire a coach if you want.
If you're playing an operasinger, you hire a coach and in
45 minutes you're an operasinger.

Speaker 2 (57:14):
Right, right, it's crazy.

Speaker 1 (57:16):
If you're doing a sword fight, you hire a sword
coach and in 45 minutes you arean expert sword fighter.
At least you look like it,right.
You know what they haven'tfigured out how to get people
that are playing musicalinstruments to look realistic.

Speaker 2 (57:32):
To look like they're actually playing like musical
instruments.

Speaker 1 (57:35):
Yeah, there is one time where it really does, where
it fooled me, and that is inStar Trek Voyager, when Harry
Kim plays the clarinet.
I mean it looks like he isplaying the freaking clarinet.

Speaker 2 (57:51):
Now you've gone and met.

Speaker 1 (57:54):
Garrett Wang right.
I unfortunately have not.

Speaker 2 (57:58):
Okay, I thought maybe you had at a con or something I
need to.
Maybe I'll go to Denver Conbecause he's pretty regularly at
Denver Pop Culture Con.
If I can get out there again, Imight ask him if he knows how
to play any of that, because no,he doesn't.
He doesn't, he doesn't, he doesnot.
That's crazy, because it lookslike he is.

(58:19):
It's so good.

Speaker 1 (58:20):
Yeah, and he had a coach and his coach was good.
I mean made him learn.
But this is not the Star TrekVoyager.
Harry Kim plays the clarinetpodcast.
This is the movie RX podcast.
We're talking about Dune Right.

Speaker 2 (58:44):
That's okay.
I'm all about getting off topic, oh okay.
It doesn't bug me any, but Ithink that that's probably a big
part of it is that at that timethey weren't going to teach
somebody, you know, wing Chun.
They weren't going to teachsomebody Kung Fu.
They weren't going to teachsomebody Toshindo.

Speaker 1 (59:07):
They needed to have something, okay, right, other
than hand-to-hand combat.
All right Now, if you recall,if you fire a laser at a
personal shield the Hertzmaneffect.
The Holtzman effect.

(59:27):
Yes, you get a nuclearexplosion, nuclear-level
explosion.

Speaker 2 (59:33):
At both ends.
Yeah, at the ends.
Yeah, at the laser and at theshield.

Speaker 1 (59:37):
So you got to do something for those people to be
able to shoot from the top ofsandworms as they're coming
through the shield wall, right,and you know, the Sardaukar are
wearing personal shields, right,okay, right, okay.
So you, you gotta do somethingto to make the war scene, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:00:04):
Yeah, I guess that works Now, like we've kind of
been making some, some smallcomparisons to the book and
everything in this movie, likein the long run.
All comparisons to the book andeverything in this movie, like
in the long run, um, what, whatwould be, what would be probably
the biggest, the biggestdifference that you would say
between between the books inthis one, that that that's

(01:00:27):
almost, that's almost just wrong, I think.
What?

Speaker 1 (01:00:30):
David Lynch tried to do in making in.
What David Lynch tried to do inmaking in, in attempting to
make art, was also too wide of afocus, trying to get too much
in the movie, you know, and inthe book we're talking about a

(01:00:51):
900 pagepage book, okay, inthree different parts.
And you bet, frank Herbertexplains Chome, he explains the
Landsrat, he explains the Spice,he explains all these things.
You ain't going to compress 900pages of story into a two movie

(01:01:15):
or even a four hour movie, youknow.

Speaker 2 (01:01:20):
So well, I mean, look at, look at what they did with
Dune part one and two, Like Imean they still had to cut a
bunch of stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:01:29):
And I am and see, and that's that's where also, what
I had in mind with comparing tothe movies.
The Villeneuve movies arefocused on Paul's story, right,
and we're not worried about thenavigators and what they look

(01:01:49):
like and how they work, andwe're not worried about Ix or
Thylakzu and we're not worriedabout how you get thylakzu and
we're not worried about how youget from one place to another,
you just do okay.
So, because it's about moredeep, yes, and that is why the
new dune movies are so much moresuccessful than, uh, the sci-fi

(01:02:14):
series, which I also enjoyedthoroughly, and and the 84 movie
.

Speaker 2 (01:02:21):
I think the focus was too wide yeah, well, and and I
mean any, any time you get intoany any sort of uh, any sort of
like a, a, when you're, whenyou're making any movie from a
book, you're you're going tohave to cut corners.
Um, I mean, sometimes they do areally good job.

(01:02:42):
Um, like one one that I reallylike to point out is is Harry
Potter.
Harry Potter did a great job,uh, sticking pretty pretty true
to the books uh, while makingtheir movies.
But, um, but, only people whoread the books get annoyed about
the things that weren't in themovies.
Things like, uh, there was apoltergeist that was funnier in

(01:03:04):
hell named Peeves, uh in in thebooks that didn't didn't even
make a cameo in the in themovies.
Um, the uh, sometimes you haveto change, change like complete,
like surface details of ofsomething really big in order to
make something work.
Like, uh, I am legend, yeah,the original roger matheson, or

(01:03:29):
uh, uh, what, what was his firstname?
I don't remember.
Remember the Matheson novel.
It started, or it was morevampires than it was, zombies,
you know, and stuff like that.
So, like, sometimes you justhave to change things in order
to make them work on screen.

Speaker 1 (01:03:51):
Of course, sometimes you can change it so much that
it's horrible.
In the case of RichardMatheson's story, they've made
three movies.
Okay, the first one was VincentPrice, the second one was

(01:04:14):
called the Omega man.

Speaker 2 (01:04:15):
Oh, I remember, okay, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:04:21):
And it was horrible, it bad, it was bad, absolutely
horrible.
And then there was the I amlegend um the will smith version
, which, yeah, it was different,but I liked it that's.

Speaker 2 (01:04:33):
That's a really big one that I that I like to use as
an argument that just becauseit's not the same doesn't mean
that it can't be good too.

Speaker 1 (01:04:42):
Uh, you know, and I'm sure there's a lot of people
that are going to start rollingtheir eyes, but I like Will
Smith.

Speaker 2 (01:04:49):
Yeah, I, yeah, yeah, and I'm.
I'm sorry, I, I yeah.
Yeah, I'm sorry I can't.
We need to get out of thiswhole of, you know, canceling
people for good because ofsomething they've done.
Yes, I know Because we're notdoing it everywhere.

(01:05:11):
There's some people that shouldget canceled, that don't, yeah.
So we're not going to get intothat too much this time around,
because I'm saving that foranother podcast.

Speaker 1 (01:05:24):
Will Smith is an actor with a lot of range and I
think he is totallyunderappreciated for his level
of ability as an actor, for histalent.
I'm going to go.
I'm going to go on record withthat.

Speaker 2 (01:05:42):
Yeah, and I agree, I completely agree.
He will be, uh, he will beconsidered one of our, one of,
uh, one of my generation'sgreats Now, I guess maybe Jenny
Jamie's generation, um, eitherone.
But yeah, uh, one of mygeneration's greats, now, I
guess, maybe Jenny Jamie'sgeneration, um, either one.
But yeah, uh, but yeah, so Idon't know.

(01:06:02):
I think I think that this movie, this movie, did a really good
thing for me as far as openingmy mind, uh, politically, um,
the the thing, the one thingthat Frank Herbert I I don't
remember where I read it, butthe one thing that I remember
Frank Herbert said about thismovie was that what missed the

(01:06:27):
mark was that Paul was a manplaying a god, not that he was a
god that could make it rain andthe, and.
And the reason I think thatthat's important is because the,
uh, the people, the people inleadership, a lot of the time

(01:06:53):
are not who they representthemselves to be.

Speaker 1 (01:06:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:06:56):
And and sometimes it's important for us to to keep
an eye on those things and keepa lot of that stuff in, in, in,
in mind while we're, whilewe're picking our leadership in
various different ways.
Yeah, um, and yeah, so the Imean that's, that's because of
that that's been a pretty biginfluence on on the way that I

(01:07:17):
do things, uh, politically, uh,and and also in in small groups,
when picking leadership forvarious different things as well
.

Speaker 1 (01:07:25):
So, yeah, um, well, this movie, first and foremost,
and and I liked it.
There were times when I didn'tlike it, and there were, you
know, and then you think aboutthings, but the one thing that
this movie did for me, above all, is it made me want to go and

(01:07:50):
and read the book Right, whichled to some really cool things.

Speaker 2 (01:07:58):
Yeah, well, and some really good storytelling.
Yeah, wow, the story, the worldthat is Dune.
I mean we can even nitpick atsome of the books too, because
God, emperor of Dune is Dear God, emperor of Dune.

Speaker 1 (01:08:17):
Okay okay, okay, that's a hard book to read Time
out, time out.
Okay, yes, it is a hard book toread.
It reads like a sociologytextbook.
It is so hard.
Now, you mentioned earlier Iwas on the Dune Saga podcast and
we did we did an interview withBrian Herbert, yeah, and we

(01:08:42):
brought this very thing up thethe, the um book you just
mentioned God, emperor of Dune.
Frank Herbert was writing thatbook and at the same time, his
wife was dying, jeez, yeah ohman, yeah, so so that, yeah,

(01:09:04):
that kind of changes perspectiveon it a little bit yeah, so, um
, you know that's that's kind ofthat's kind of what what came
about, and you know, you knowit's it.
Yeah, the book is is horriblyhard to read, If you like.
If you like Duncan, he's inthere a lot.

Speaker 2 (01:09:25):
Right.
Right, but not for long Nope,as he never is.
I mean, they have a spoileralert.
They cloned Duncan lots oftimes, so yeah, all right.
Well, I guess, uh, I guess, uh,uh, I don't know, I don't
really know that we have a wholehell of a lot more to say.
We're we're on it a little overan hour now, so, uh, I guess I

(01:09:51):
guess we'll just go ahead andcall it good.
You want to go ahead and plugyour shows?

Speaker 1 (01:09:57):
and projects.
Okay, I sure will.
So currently I'm on a podcastwith two friends, raul Wybera
and JP Harvey.
One of them is in St Louis, theother one is in Las Vegas and
I'm here in the middle ofNebraska.
We get together once a monthand we talk about David Weber's

(01:10:17):
Honor Harrington books and thename of that podcast is
Honorverse.
Today we release once a month,we record once a month and we've
had quite a good listenershipon that one.
Prior to that I was on apodcast with the same gentleman

(01:10:40):
and it was the Babylon Projectpodcast.
We talked about Babylon 5, allthe TV shows, all the movies and
the books, reviews for that onthere, the Orbital Sword podcast
.
That was with a gentleman namedDavid Moulton and another,

(01:11:01):
scott Herzog, who you mayrecognize from the Sci-Fi Diner.
We were doing sci-fi andfantasy books.
We did quite a few books, butwe kind of we kind of wound up
with pod fade on that.
You know what pod fade is.

Speaker 2 (01:11:21):
No, it feels like it should feel, like a word.

Speaker 1 (01:11:25):
When your podcast just kind of drops over the
horizon and doesn't and juststops.

Speaker 2 (01:11:31):
Okay, I get it.

Speaker 1 (01:11:33):
Yeah, you know, people's lives change yes, yes,
they do yeah and and and that'skind of what happened to the
orbital orbital sword and priorto that.
The first big podcast I was onwas the dune saga podcast and
that was also with David andScott, and we did the books.

(01:11:55):
We talked about most of themovies, including 84 Dune Well,
84 Dune and the sci-fi thing.
Of course, we never came backto it, so we're missing a few of

(01:12:20):
the newer books and the newestmovies.
But we talk about all the otherbooks and the unique part of it
is not only that, we do havethat interview with Brian
Herbert.
That's cool.
I'll tell you what Brian Herbertis a nice guy, he is and and

(01:12:40):
he's really smart.
So, uh, it was, it was a greatinterview and um, yeah, and we
and we took these books not inpublication order, but we took
them in chronological order.
Nice, so we started way backwith the beginning of the Dune

(01:13:01):
universe, with the ButlerianJihad, and then you read them,
because they're not released inchronological order, but you can
go online and you can type inDune chronological order and
you'll get a list of the booksin the order to read them.

(01:13:21):
If you want a continuous storyand I personally I think that's
the only way to do it- yeah, Iread the Frank Herbert books in
order of release and then read.

Speaker 2 (01:13:36):
Probably well, I read up through the Jihad, like
through the end of that Vori andAtreides and what was the
Harkonnen name?
I don't remember his name.
Anyway, yeah, I read up throughthose.
I didn't get through any of thehouse books or anything but

(01:13:58):
yeah, well, I've read them alland and I'll tell you what.

Speaker 1 (01:14:03):
They are all great.
It's awesome, every every darnone of them, but it took me a
long time to read the other ones.
It's because a certain certainperson told me not to.
It's because a certain certainperson told me not to said they

(01:14:24):
weren't worth reading.

Speaker 2 (01:14:24):
I didn't care for him .
I really didn't, and I thinkmost of it was because I was.
I was looking for for frankherbert's voice.
Yeah, and since I've gottenolder I've appreciated the brian
, her, kevin J Anderson onesmore.
It's kind of that whole.

(01:14:46):
Don't go into a reboot,expecting the original thing,
like since I've kind of gotteninto that mind frame.

Speaker 1 (01:14:54):
I can read Dune that isn't written by Frank Herbert
and appreciate it more.
You are in my mind.
It's like yes, I agree, frank.
Uh, brian Herbert and Kevin JAnderson's books do not sound
like Frank Herbert wrote them,because Frank Herbert didn't
write them.
Didn't write them, yeah, andnobody can write like Frank
Herbert does.
You don't know, nobody's goingto write like him, because Frank

(01:15:17):
Herbert was Frank Herbert.

Speaker 2 (01:15:19):
Yep.
You know, Yep, that's whatVictor Wooten says.
Yeah, that you have your ownfingerprint.

Speaker 1 (01:15:28):
You are being unrealistic if you expect one
author to follow on and beexactly like the next one.
Right, that's not fair.

Speaker 2 (01:15:39):
Right.
Well, luckily, now that I'm 40,I'm a little bit wiser to it,
you yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:15:47):
But that's okay because then I got to read them
really fresh and do the DuneSaga podcast with those guys.

Speaker 2 (01:15:56):
That was a good podcast.
Yeah, for all of my listeners.
If you're into Dune, definitelycheck out Dune Saga podcast.
I listened to that one for avery long time until my life got
too busy not to.
That was life as a.
What was it?
I was working at the newspaperat the time.

(01:16:16):
Yeah, I was trying to become myown writer.

Speaker 1 (01:16:22):
You do great.

Speaker 2 (01:16:23):
Alrighty.
Well, thank you very much, dad,for coming on.
It was cool having you onfinally.
Yeah, especially with a moviethat kind of meant so much to
both of us.
Yeah, this is one of thosethings that I always kind of
felt like we were able to reallyconnect on at several instances

(01:16:44):
in our life.

Speaker 1 (01:16:46):
Well, you know how many times I've watched that
movie?
Yeah, right, and you wereusually somewhere nearby Right.
Yep, also were usuallysomewhere nearby Right.

Speaker 2 (01:16:56):
Yep Also Loved it.
Yeah, now you know these moviesare not intended to treat, cure
or prevent any disease.
See ya Outro Music.