Instant Family (2018) ft. Jamie & Hannah

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Today's episode of MovieRx contains a lot of very
real conversation about veryreal people and real life
experiences surrounding trauma,children in the foster care
system and adoption.
Please take the care that youneed for yourself if triggered
by these topics and be well.
Hello and welcome to MovieRx,where I prescribe entertainment,

(00:39):
one movie at a time.
I am your host, dr Benjamin PhD.
What does the PhD stand for?
Parenting's hard dude?
I'm glad.
I'm glad I got a little bit oflaugh out of that.

Speaker 3 (00:55):
Wait.

Speaker 1 (00:56):
That's all I'm asking for.

Speaker 3 (00:58):
That would be my PhD right.

Speaker 1 (01:00):
Yeah, pretty much that's okay.
Yeah, pretty much that's okay.
People are hard dude, thatworks.

Speaker 3 (01:11):
I will take that, that's universal.

Speaker 1 (01:12):
All right, that's one of my guests.
So I have two guests in studiotoday.
First I have my niece, Hannah.
Say hi, Hannah.
Hi and I also have my sister,her mom.

Speaker 3 (01:28):
Jamie, hey, I'm here Again.

Speaker 1 (01:31):
Again.
Uh, so welcome back Jamie andwelcome Hannah.
Today we're looking at a moviethat actually kind of hits close
to home, uh, in my family anduh, in some ways, my work Uh,
and that's why I have my familytoday.
Today we're talking aboutinstant family.
Kind of like to talk about thetechnical stuff first, so I'll

(01:53):
just go first as far astechnically goes.
Film-wise the cinematographyisn't anything real, all that
special or anything.
The music is kind of what you'dexpect from what would you call
this?
A dramedy?

Speaker 3 (02:06):
Um, yeah, yeah, that's a good, yeah, it's kind
of a dramedy.

Speaker 1 (02:11):
The music is light and sweet when it needs to be
and it's, uh, quite frankly,hilarious at some points.

Speaker 3 (02:19):
but can we call it a drum com?

Speaker 1 (02:22):
Drum com.
Okay, I Can we call it a drumcom.
Drum com Okay, I suppose wecould call it a drum com.

Speaker 3 (02:27):
That would be fine, please tell me I just coined
that phrase and now I can makemillions.
That would be awesome.

Speaker 1 (02:32):
I've never heard it, but I can't say that it's not
something that's been donesomewhere, drum com.

Speaker 2 (02:39):
That's good Drum com.

Speaker 1 (02:40):
I like it, but yeah, the thing that really stands out
with this movie really is thestory and the acting, which a
really cool, fun fact about thestory in this movie is that it's
inspired by the director'sadopting of three foster
children.

Speaker 3 (02:57):
I knew it was based on a true story, but I didn't
know who's true story, so yeah,that's cool Director himself.

Speaker 1 (03:02):
I mean it's.
I guess it's very loosely basedon it things were added for
dramatic effect.

Speaker 3 (03:08):
Right, that's usually how those go probably more
added for humor yeah, maybe um,but yeah.

Speaker 1 (03:17):
So uh, I mean, what would you guys think of the
movie technically?

Speaker 4 (03:21):
we'll start with hannah um, I guess what stood
out to me was lizzie's actinglike, especially at the end of
the movie, when they were likeyou know, your mom isn't coming,
she's not ready for this, likeyou could just you couldn't even
tell that she was acting like.
It literally looked like shewas actually feeling what the
character would feel, if thatmakes sense yeah she's.

Speaker 1 (03:45):
She's kind of a new standout.
What is her name?
I don't even know her name yet.
That's how kind of new she isfor me Isabella Merced.

Speaker 4 (03:53):
That name doesn't sound familiar.

Speaker 1 (03:55):
Yeah, she's been in some other fun things.
She was in Transformers thelast night she was in Sicario.
She was also Dora in dora theexplorer she would make a
perfect dora.

Speaker 3 (04:10):
No wonder they picked her for that yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (04:13):
Well, she would make a perfect sassy dora, like she
would make the kind of dora thatthat swiper would not fuck with
.
I mean, if we're, if we'rebeing really honest here, cause,
like she got some dude manReminds me of, reminds me of
another, uh, another teenagegirl I knew once.

Speaker 3 (04:35):
Oh well, maybe I got a ha there.
Um doomsday Dora doomsday Dora.

Speaker 1 (04:45):
So what about you, Jamie?
Does anything technical standout for you in this movie?

Speaker 3 (04:50):
You know, I think this was the first movie.
I think I saw Mark Wahlberg notdoing the usual Mark Wahlberg
stuff Not doing the MarkWahlberg thing, yeah.
Yeah, so this was I mean thiswas a really cool movie in that
way, because it just was, um,that really stood out to me.
Um, and you know, I think Ithink the other piece of it was

(05:15):
the absolute rich texture of allof the characters.
Um, like, all the fosterparents added such a cool
backdrop to, you know, as far asadding to the personality of
foster care you know what I'msaying Like, right.

Speaker 1 (05:32):
When we get to characters, they are a character
of their own, like the wholesupport group is.
Um, no, I I totally agree withyou on the Mark Wahlberg thing.
Basically what I put down in mynotes for for him was that
Marky Mark was at his best in amore average role, you know, not

(05:53):
being the tough guy, not beingthe crazy guy.
I haven't seen him do a rolelike this since and even then
it's nicer than it was in APerfect Storm.

Speaker 3 (06:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (06:05):
I think he did fantastic in this movie.
It really showed a differentside of his abilities.
But, yeah, I suppose I shouldprobably give all of the basic
info on this thing.
The movie was released in 2018,directed by Sean Anders.
He was the director that wrotethe story that was inspired by
his own adoption experience.
Sean Anders did movies likethat's my Boy, horrible Bosses 2

(06:27):
, daddy's Home.
He's done some family stuffalready.
Stars Mark Wahlberg, rose Byrne, isabella Merced those are the
poster names, but I cannot talkabout a movie that has Octavia

(06:47):
Spencer in it and not mentionher name.
You know who Octavia Spencer is.

Speaker 3 (06:54):
Oh, um Sharon.

Speaker 1 (06:56):
Uh, karen, she was the one that was in like the
help and she was in uh the NASAmovie.

Speaker 3 (07:03):
Oh, um something figures hidden figures hidden
figures yeah, also did like ahorror film too, didn't she
recently like?

Speaker 1 (07:13):
she's done everything like it's.
It's amazing to me how much shepops up and it's like just
surprise, there she is and likeit, she instantly makes the
movie better.
And speaking of the help,there's actually a reference in
there that I don't know if itwas intended, but I'm pretty
sure it was.
Ellie was was looking forlizzie and lizzie comes out from

(07:35):
that weird woman's yard.
Yeah, the weird woman offeredto have him in for pie and she
was like yes, we will have some,I love pie.
Like it was like oh, that'sfunny.

Speaker 3 (07:47):
I hadn't put those together actually.
So thank you for pointing thatout, cause I hadn't.
I hadn't made that connection,yeah.

Speaker 1 (07:55):
Yeah, that's good stuff and you're going to hate
this, cause you always do, butthe IMDB description.

Speaker 3 (08:01):
Bring on the IMDB description yes.

Speaker 1 (08:05):
I'm, I'm, I'm with you on this one, though this one
really sucks.
A couple find themselves inover their heads when they
foster three children.
Boom, yep that's it.
Wow.

Speaker 3 (08:18):
Right.
Does that make you want to buythree tickets, Hannah?

Speaker 1 (08:24):
I feel like there's a few words missing, like
heartfelt or you know anything.
Odyssey yeah, that's what theyhave.
That's what they have.

Speaker 3 (08:37):
You know what I have decided?
I have decided that IMDB needsto start using chat GPT.

Speaker 1 (08:44):
Oh, that could also be disastrous though.

Speaker 3 (08:47):
Well, I'm telling you every time I put anything into
chat GPT, suddenly we are onvoyages through the depths of
despair, Like it just adds allthese colorful words, journeys
and voyages and epics.
They should incorporate chatGPpt into their workflow over
there, because that might helpyeah, the jokes on us, they

(09:10):
already do.

Speaker 1 (09:16):
So why don't we just go ahead and jump right into the
characters?
Tell me about pete and ellie.
We'll have jamie.
Talk about pete and ell.

Speaker 3 (09:22):
Oh, pete and Allie, there were so many pieces
because I just rewatched it.
I haven't seen it for a coupleof years.
I'm rewatching it again.
You know, in prep for this itwas like all of these little
things kind of popped out at me,like how they're so hopeful and

(09:43):
kind of blind and totally dothat whole, like, oh, this is
going to be a challenge.
And they're like, oh, we know,we know, we know Right, but it's
not really going to be achallenge, like we're just going
to ignore it.
I also thought it wasfascinating about how how
they're trying to be so perfectand in doing that, they mess it

(10:05):
up all the time, like they saythe wrong things and they do the
wrong things because they're soworried about doing it wrong,
like trying to get it right.
Um, and I remember that feelingsitting in our foster care
class doing the same thing, likereally measuring what I had to
say and really monitoring what Isaid before I said it Cause I

(10:25):
didn't want to not get a licensebefore we even finished the
class, right, I didn't want toget kicked out.
So, um, I think what'sfascinating is how, how their
motives like you can see theirmotive shift throughout the
movie.
Um yeah, yeah.
And in the beginning, I youknow when, when Lizzie asked

(10:48):
Ellie like why did you, why didyou take us?
You know like, why did you pickus?
And she didn't have an answerfor that.
And then by the end it was likewhen it was possible that they
weren't going to be able to betogether, it was like then she
figured it out, she knew exactlywhy they were there, you know
which was kind of cool.

Speaker 1 (11:07):
Yeah, that was probably one of the moments that
I really had to stop.
I actually paused the moviewhen she asked her why are you
doing this, why are you adoptingus?
And she stammered a bunch andshe was like, yeah, exactly, you
know, and walked away.
I had to pause it for a secondand be like of all of the
reasons that people say thatthey're adopting.
What way would that be okay forkids Like, well, we want to

(11:29):
adopt because we want to fill ahole in our lives.
Well, I mean, if you ask a kidwho was in foster care, would
that make you feel good?
I want you to be a part of myfamily, to make my life whole.
Does that make it seem selfishto you, or is that like that?

Speaker 4 (11:43):
like I mean, I guess it's kind of like 50 50, but
it's more like you're doing itfor your own benefit and not
mine, if that makes sense, yeahso it wouldn't be unusual for a
kid to feel that way, and thatthat's kind of what went through
my head with that was.

Speaker 1 (11:59):
you know, lizzie?
Lizzie has got to be thinkingthat these people are not doing
this for me, these people arenot doing this for my brother
and sister.
These people are, that's enough.

Speaker 3 (12:13):
Moxie has something to say too.
She was recently adopted aswell, so she may have something
to add to this conversation.
No, no, no, just lay down.

Speaker 1 (12:50):
Ok, I'm shaking, no, ben, anyway, so, um, so, yeah, I
mean, there's gotta be timeswhere it goes through a kid's
head that you know that you'renot doing this for you, you're
not, or you're not doing thisfor me, You're not doing this
for my brother and sister,you're doing this for you, and,
and all of these things.
You think that I have to dothis.
You know like I can stop thisat any time, and then you can go
back with the muskies, which,by the way, just so everybody's

(13:13):
on the same page those peoplewere actually married, the
creepy foster family that theycame from.

Speaker 3 (13:19):
Well, she's an actress.
I mean, I've seen her in otherthings, but I had never seen him
before.

Speaker 1 (13:23):
Yeah, those, those are actually husband and wife.
That's crazy.
And they do look like brotherand sister.
It's so weird.
But yeah, it's uh.
Yeah, that's a real thing.
But yeah, I mean, she couldtotally at any time have been
like I don't want to do thisanymore, you can go home.
I don't know that it was rightfor her to throw that at a, you

(13:47):
know, 15 year old girl, butthere were several times where I
was just like oh no, no, no, no, no.

Speaker 3 (13:52):
And in that moment, even, even in that scene, I'm
like don't mess this up.
Don't mess this up.
You know, she needs to hear theright thing from you right now.

Speaker 1 (14:01):
Oh no, Pete and Ellie .
Like it was really fun to watchtheir struggles because that's
that's what made the movieinteresting was their struggles.
But, um, but at the same time,like I, I really loved how their
how their struggles were also,um, they brought in that
awkwardness that people willsometimes have in those

(14:22):
situations where they say thewrong thing but it's because
they don't know the right way tosay those right things.
Next on the list I got lizzie,juan and lita to get somebody's
perspective on three foster kidsand in a fos adopt situation.
I should probably get it froman opinion of somebody who's
been there.
So, hannah, tell me aboutLizzie, juan and Lita.

Speaker 4 (14:45):
Well, I just think that Lizzie was like this cute
little girl that had just somuch you know, punk and sass,
and was just the cutest thing.
And I felt like Juan I kind ofrelated to a little bit, because
I've talked to my mom and shejust said that when I first came
into her care I was just thisscared little girl that just sat

(15:06):
on the couch and didn't knowwhat to do at all and just
watched Isaiah rummage aroundthe house and act like a crazy
kid and you were, you were timid, you were all kinds of timid.

Speaker 1 (15:19):
Uh, when you first came in, except when it came to
electronics.
You took to electronics likenothing, like tablets and
laptops.
Do you, do you remember thatfirst night?

Speaker 4 (15:30):
Jamie, oh, I don't.

Speaker 1 (15:32):
When she was yes.

Speaker 3 (15:36):
I re.
I also remember her affinityfor a Kindle and yes.

Speaker 1 (15:41):
Yes, yeah, there were .
There were definitely,especially in the beginning.
There were definitely some Juanthings about, about Hannah.
I do remember that Lita, thoughI don't think that she really
had much of Lita until later.

Speaker 3 (15:58):
Oh, I was gonna say when she came back.

Speaker 1 (16:03):
Yeah, what do you think of lita?

Speaker 4 (16:05):
oh, I think I got the name switched around in the
beginning.
I totally did, because I meantto say lita was just like this,
like this sassy girl, and shewas just what my way, or the
highway, you know, is the typeof attitude that came across off
.
So potato chips yes, potatochips or nothing yes, so, okay.

Speaker 1 (16:26):
So that was lita, what about?
What about lizzie?

Speaker 4 (16:28):
lizzie.
I kind of connected with morebecause, as it went on, like my
mom was just this annoyingperson that was just always on
me and oh my gosh, just leave mealone.
And oh, she doesn't knowanything, but in the end she was
always right about everything,which is hard for me to say, but
it.

Speaker 3 (16:48):
Just that is on recorded history.
People, that is, it is it's.

Speaker 4 (16:52):
It's on the internet, so it's not going anywhere now
yeah, it just made me really sad, especially at the end, like
that whole situation again wherethey were like liz, izzy, your
mom isn't coming, like she's notready.
It just kind of made me realizelike some people just aren't

(17:13):
fit to be parents, you know, andsome people really never do
change as much as they want tochange.
And yeah, I don't know, it justkind of struck a chord for me
there at the end.
Yeah, but everything doeshappen for a reason.

Speaker 3 (17:28):
You know what's interesting and what I saw in
that time too, miss Hannah, issometimes that challenge that I
saw for you in loyalty and stillcaring for and loving your bio
family and loving your adoptivefamily and how, how hard that
was for you.
Sometimes that's I.

(17:49):
That was the part that Iactually cried because it did
feel like those times, you know,sometimes with you and I, and
how challenging that was for youto to have those feelings for
both places and struggle withthat, that dual loyalty.
You know what I mean.

Speaker 4 (18:05):
Yeah, that's why it was hard, because it's that
loyalty and that trust and thenit gets broken and then you're
left there to fix it by yourself.
Well, not by yourself, but likethe person that betrayed your
trust or didn't do the thingsthat they said they would do
aren't there and you have torely on someone else to help you

(18:25):
.

Speaker 1 (18:25):
The next one that I got here, uh, on the list is
karen and sharon, and and wealready talked a little bit
about karen now I I feel likethat karen and sharon are almost
they're almost the the musestelling the story.
Yeah, because they, they kindof guide everything along
throughout the movie and I meanthey, they give you a lot of

(18:46):
back information.
It's almost like they feed yousome understanding of what's
going on, but within the contextof the movie, and so it's
almost like they're narratingthe story.
But I really like the way theydid it.
I also think that Karen wouldprobably be the case manager
that people would like more,because she was very real with

(19:07):
with those foster families.

Speaker 3 (19:09):
Well, I love how she kind of balanced out the need,
like the needs of the job.
Like you know, you have to havesome, you have to have some
real hard hitting honesty andyou also have to have some um
some tact.
Yeah yeah, like tact and andcourtesy and and things like

(19:29):
that.
It was kind of an interestingmix, the two of them for me the
best.
The best scene with either oneof them, though, was when Mark
Wahlberg, like, was making funof Sharon's kid.
Oh, god, yes, and actuallymaking fun of her.
That's really not a fairassessment of that.
But, like when he was like Idon't know, I tried to connect
with this one kid and I'm prettysure they tied her to a

(19:50):
radiator and she's like yeah,that's my, that's my daughter,
thank you.

Speaker 1 (19:53):
Like and she was.
She was not apologetic about iteither like she was like yeah,
and, by the way, I haven't had adrop of alcohol while I was
pregnant with her.

Speaker 3 (20:04):
Like and we don't have a radiator.
Okay.

Speaker 1 (20:08):
Yeah, those foot and mouth moments were perfect with
those two.

Speaker 3 (20:12):
Oh my God, they had so many of them too.
They were everywhere.

Speaker 1 (20:19):
The blindside lady October.

Speaker 3 (20:21):
That was great to October, and I'll tell you what,
though, from my perspective, itis exactly how it is, because
you always feel like you're kindof tiptoeing because you don't
want to.
You don't want to mess anythingup.
You don't want to.
You know, I I often.
I often tell people that when Iwas a licensed foster parent,

(20:44):
if I had a drop of alcohol threedays ago, I wasn't going to
drive my car Because I knew if Iwere to get pulled over it
would be foster parent, caughtwith DUI or something like that.
You feel like you're soresponsible for so much more
than than the average personthat it really, it really does

(21:07):
feel a little bit like walkingon eggshells for everything,
because you have to reallyprotect that and be careful with
it.

Speaker 1 (21:15):
This is probably something that's talked about
more in in our last character onthe list, like the support
groups and stuff like that forfoster parents.
When you really get down to it,you are being trusted with
someone else's children.
Stop and think about everythingyou do.
You think about every move youmake, every Facebook post you're
getting ready to make, everyInstagram photo.

(21:35):
You're getting ready to put upeverything that you're going to
do.
You have to stop and think toyourself is this okay for the
children?
It really does kind of changeyour whole life.

Speaker 3 (21:46):
What does?

Speaker 4 (21:46):
that.
Look for Hannah.
Oh, you know, we've just talkedabout the whole boundaries and
Facebook thing, Not between youand I.
Never mind, I'm like what doyou mean.

Speaker 1 (22:14):
Oh okay, yes, yes, never mind.
Oh, yes, yes.
So like family boundaries andfacebook?
Yes, yeah, okay, within thehousehold, usually those, those
rules and everything are allkind of established and
everything outside of the home,uh, sometimes there's some
blurred lines.
Yeah, I remember that kind ofbeing a thing, but you guys did
a pretty good job managing mostof it.

Speaker 3 (22:27):
So we tried.
We usually figured it outeventually.

Speaker 1 (22:32):
Right, well, I mean Hannah's 20 and she's still
alive.
So I mean, you figured out?

Speaker 4 (22:40):
quite a bit.

Speaker 1 (22:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (22:41):
Mission accomplished.

Speaker 1 (22:44):
The last character I have is the support group and I
I think that the support groupwas really important.
The support group, along withall the rest of the characters I
felt like really kind of made,made this whole movie almost
like a PSA for fostering.
Because in the support groupyou had the good Christianian

(23:05):
family that wanted to, you know,adopt one small child to, you
know, to make their whole life,you know, something amazing and
share what god has blessed themwith.
Uh, you had the gay couple thatobviously can't have their own
children and so they're there toadopt, so that they can share
in the joy of having a family.
Um, you have the mom thatcouldn't conceive.

(23:29):
Uh, that that was, that wasvery hurtful for her, you know.
And then you had the mom thatSandra Bullock.
You wanted Sandra Bullock.
You know she she wanted to have.
You know she wanted to have akid that she could drive um,
that she could make be the bestthat they could be.
Then you had Marky Mark and hisfunky woman doing their thing.

(23:54):
They're doing it almost in thearms of an angel, like the
Humane Society kind ofcommercials on late night TV
where they looked at somepictures their hearts broke and
then they decided to foster.
You know, that was.

Speaker 3 (24:10):
That was one of the things and and I think that was
one of the fascinating thingsabout this is all the different
motivations that were in thereand they there's, uh, there's
kind of bothered me a little bit, if I'm being honest, because
it was a it's, it was anemotional decision, like they
made a decision based on, youknow, seeing sad puppies on in

(24:32):
the arms of the angelinfomercials at night.
Like it was such an emotionalthing.

Speaker 1 (24:38):
And then even when they decided to take the
placement of the three kids, itwas to prove their family wrong,
and so I'm glad you broughtthat up because I am, I'm going
to take that and I'm going toand I'm going to kind of shove
it back at you a little bit here.
Okay.
Because that was initially whatI was upset about.
I was like you know, that's,that's, that's bullshit.

(24:59):
Snapple, you can't say that.
Oh, you guys are, all you know,being mean to me because you
know you thought that it was ahorrible decision for me to do
this, but I think what they didI'm going to qualify this with
her response to all of thehorrible things that they had
said to her about why sheshouldn't have done it.
When she was going back at them,she was telling them things

(25:21):
like look, I am here at a familydinner.
I am here on Thanksgiving tohave something to be thankful
for, though I don't know why Iam right now with the way that
you people are talking to me,but there are people out there
who don't.
There are people out there,there are kids out there who
don't have a place to be, theydon't have things to be thankful
for and they don't havefamilies to be there to share it
with them.
And that changed it, like when,when I really recognized that

(25:46):
she was, it was her realizingthat her decision to do it was
one thing and then theirdecision to not do it was
selfish and then it turned backaround into being something that
was.
It was again for the kids.

Speaker 3 (26:00):
Well, and quite frankly, I think I think the
reason that that that got to mea little bit is because I think
humans are fundamentally selfish.
I think, you know,fundamentally we are
self-serving people and when Istarted, it was definitely
because it was because it'ssomething I wanted, you know,

(26:24):
and I never stopped to thinkabout is this something that the
kids would want?
Is this something that's bestfor them?
You know what I mean and so Idefinitely I know that over all
the years that I, that I didfoster and before I adopted,
there was a lot of shifting thathappened in me and a lot of

(26:45):
learning and growth thathappened.
And the focus, definitely afterthat first placement, you know,
it really did become.
It became a service and not notself-service, but it really it

(27:08):
kind of bothered me watchingthat, you know like okay, no, no
, no, you don't get to have afight with your family and then
be like, oh yeah, well, we'regoing to foster three kids.
You know, that really bugged me.

Speaker 1 (27:19):
Yeah, I think that ultimately their reasons.
I do think that it was stillwith good intention, not in that
crappy way where it's you knowthe road is.

Speaker 3 (27:29):
I was going to say you know what they say about.
Well, and I quite frankly that,truthfully, to me, that's the,
that's.
The moral of the story is that,yeah, I, every single person in
that room, had good intentions,even you know Sandra Bullock,
she, she, it wasn't.
It wasn't.

(27:50):
Yes, was there someself-serving purpose there?
She wanted to be a good human.
You know, she wanted to feellike a good person and, you know
, help a kid who had no chancesucceed succeed.
But, um, you know, I think Ithink if we're not careful, it's
really easy to get stuck inthat and it's really important

(28:11):
that that, that focus of I wantto feel like a good person, I
want to feel like I did theright thing, I want to know that
I, that I did my part, orsomething like that.
If it doesn't shift to I wantto make sure that these kids
have everything they need andare prepared for moving forward,
then you're doing it wrong.

Speaker 1 (28:31):
Right, no, I get it.
Wow, that was a lot for thesupport group.

Speaker 3 (28:38):
Yeah, I could go on about the support group.
Like all the people in thecharacters, I loved how we
didn't have that, we did nothave a support group like that.
Um, when, when I was fostering,and how helpful that would have
been even to have somebody thatI felt comfortable enough to
call up and be like, okay, thisis happening in the case and I
don't understand this.
Can you explain it to me?
Um, I have a ton of socialworker friends now and I think

(29:02):
it's because of all the timethat I spent on phone on the
phone with social workers sayingI don't get this, Please
explain this to me, but to havea peer to support me through
that would have been superhelpful.
Plus, you know those kids areconnected too, because guess
where the kids are duringsupport group?
They're all hanging out inanother room in the building.
You know, Right, it was coolhow they were together, how they

(29:25):
um, they, they came togetherfrequently for their meetings,
but then they were all there forthe adoption, and you know what
I mean.
It just really they were therefor the family picture every
single member, every single oneof them kid, and all of them
were in in the picture.
It was awesome.
It was so cool.
Because, it takes a village,you know.

Speaker 1 (29:45):
Yeah.
And that's a different kind ofvillage.
So now we kind of get into themeat of everything and I kind of
created a little bit of a listbased on all of the talking
points that we had kind of builtin, that we had all put
together.
I had already said one of themthat I kind of felt like that
this, this whole movie, was likea PSA for fostering, mostly

(30:06):
because it showed you some ofthe good, some of the, some of
the challenge, some of the youknow, all of those things.
But I mean it was.
It touched on all the differentreasons why attached and things
like that, with their family atThanksgiving, when you know,

(30:28):
when they said that they weren'tgoing to do it anymore and
everybody started, well, behindyour back, we were all thinking
this, which that's just awful,but it kind of brought to mind
the things that people don't sayabout foster care and adoption
and things like that, you know.
And then one of the other onesthat Hannah had put in there was
, you know how, how people havethis aversion to adopting

(30:49):
teenagers.
Um well, I mean you've beenthere, jamie, can I mean, do you
have any sort of insight as toas to why people would be
apprehensive about adoptingteenagers?

Speaker 3 (31:00):
Well, isn't there some like scientific studies
about how babies have big eyesand big heads?
Because it makes our heartsswell and love them, you know.
I suppose, we fall in love withour babies because they're
they're cute and they, theycause those you know brain
chemicals to be great, and thenthat helps us get through the

(31:21):
teenage years great, and thenthat helps us get through the
teenage years.
And you know, I think thatthere were times, even for me,
where my kids are teenagers andwe're struggling and I would go
back to those pictures of whenthey were little and remember
all of those sweet things andthose sweet connections we had,
because that's what helps us getthrough that.
And you know, for a teenager tocome into a situation where

(31:45):
there isn't that bond and thereisn't that connection or that
history, that shared history, itwould be really difficult, it
would be hard not to havesomething to fall back on, to
have that connection, and Iexperienced that it was hard
with a teenager, right?
I?

Speaker 1 (32:03):
experienced that it was hard with a teenager.
So Right Now, hannah, did you,did you ever feel any sort of a
thing from peers or anythingpeople around you was?
Was that ever something thatyou, that you had to deal with,
people with the stigmas, butfrom the other end, like that's
not your real family or you knowthat's not your blood or
anything like that?
Was that ever anything on yourend with the people around you?

Speaker 4 (32:28):
I think the frequent, the most frequent thing that
happened was I would show peoplelike a picture of me and Isaiah
together and you could justtell by the look on their face,
like how is that your brother?
Like, how is that your brother?
And then, like I would have toexplain like you know, we were
both adopted from separatefamilies but he's still my
brother, even if we're not bloodrelated.

(32:50):
And I guess, as time went on,that just kind of irritated me
because it just happened likeconstantly and so, yeah, because
when I was younger, likepictures of Gary, my mom, mom,
isaiah and I none of us lookedalike and so it was just kind of
I just had to explain that allthe time.

Speaker 1 (33:14):
And yeah, but no, I think that was about it.
Are there any things that youwould say are things that are
shared between foster kids andadopted kids and adopted kids,
things that, um, like cause, Imean, there's the.
There's the thing that that alot of foster parents and
adoptive parents go throughwhere you know people are like,
well, since they're adopted, youknow, you don't know what kind

(33:35):
of history they have and, and sobecause of that, you don't know
what they're going to grow uplike and all of that stuff.
Um, is there any stuff likethat for, like, foster kids and
adoptive kids, where they, wherethey go, where you guys would
get together in a room and belike, well, you know, all foster
parents and adoptive parentsthink that they, you know, think

(33:55):
that they're perfect parentsbecause they've all had training
or you know.
Anything like that Is that?

Speaker 4 (34:00):
you know, I really wish, but I think one of the
things I would change is I wishI knew more people that were
adopted, because most of myfriends, all of my friends, none
of them were adopted Right.
So, yeah, it wasn't reallysomething I could connect with
anybody on, which is why I triedto talk to Isaiah about it, but

(34:21):
Isaiah is not the most openperson, as you know.

Speaker 1 (34:26):
Well then, when he's your brother.

Speaker 4 (34:29):
Yeah, it's a totally different thing.
So yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (34:34):
So is that something that you think that you think
might be helpful?
Because you know there arecommunities that have places for
parents to go, that you knowthat they can get together and
talk about and compare thosethings.
You know that they can gettogether and talk about and
compare those things.
Do you think it would bebeneficial for kids who are
adopted to go and spend timewith other kids who are adopted
and just have like almost like ayouth group sort of night or,

(34:55):
jamie, like your wellness cafething?

Speaker 3 (34:58):
Yeah, like a support group sort of.
Thing.

Speaker 1 (35:01):
Yeah, for kids that you know that are adopted or in
foster care.

Speaker 4 (35:06):
Yeah, I think it would totally help because it
would make me feel less alone,like someone else is going
through the same thing, likethis wasn't because of me, this
wasn't because of anything I did, and it's just a different type
of support for someone elsethat's going through the same
thing.

Speaker 1 (35:21):
Yeah, I think that that would probably be something
that would be beneficial allaround.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (35:28):
You know there's some balance there.
I think that that wouldprobably be something that would
be beneficial all around.
Yeah, you know there's somebalance there.
I think that I don't know ifit's necessarily stigma still,
but when we started fostering,it's almost like the drive was
to make sure that we didn't talkabout it.
Like we wanted the kids to feelas normal as any other kid, and
so we didn't talk about thefoster care part of it ever, and

(35:52):
I can see how that might havecaused some challenges, because
then it's like okay, is that aproblem?
Is that?
Does that mean there'ssomething wrong with me?
Or you know what I mean.

(36:21):
And then there's that you knowthat privacy piece of it too,
where part of why we didn't talkabout it a whole lot is because
there's, you know, it's not myjob to do anything but protect
her story and let her story beher story and not, you know, let
her share her story and not dothat for her.
And so I think there's there'ssome weird balance, balance-y
things in that that.
That that makes me think of.
So I wonder, I wonder, how, howdo you balance those things
where you know we don't want toparade kids around as being hey
look, this is the local fosterkid.
But at the same time, you know,help them not feel isolated and

(36:43):
alone, like there's somethingwrong with them, because there
are other kids that experiencethat.

Speaker 1 (36:48):
Yeah, and I think, I think it would be a fine balance
too.
I mean, cause there's there'salso the challenges of um.
You know, if it, if it's stillin foster and not adopt, I mean,
then you run into thechallenges of privacy and and
confidentiality and the biofamily and whether the bio
family feels that it's necessaryand things like that.

(37:12):
So, yeah, there's a lot ofchallenges there, but I still
think that that would besomething places could look into
, providing at least the option,even if it's just a few, like
Hannah said, it could be reallybeneficial to some kids.
So I kind of interjected intointo all of our points, uh, for
our favorite things in the movie.
Uh, I, I looked at, I looked atthis and I was like I mean, I

(37:38):
don't want to, I don't want todox anybody or anything.
But I feel like there were somemoments in in your experience
with all of the kids in yourhome and everything, the the
Christmas dinner where, whereeverything's fine and then it's
not fine, and then Lita screams.
And then in comes Christmas inSarajevo, you know that and like

(38:06):
you've got kids that are, youknow, like freaking out.
And then she pops up fromunderneath the table holding a
SpongeBob knife covered inketchup, looking like Carrie and
everybody's, everybody's juston edge.
I feel like you had some ofthose experiences Maybe, maybe
not so much with with Hannah andIsaiah.
They were.

Speaker 4 (38:27):
Oh, yes, we did.

Speaker 1 (38:29):
Okay, hannah, tell me about that.

Speaker 4 (38:34):
I don't remember what we were fighting about.
It was something, but I youknow, it was in my teenage years
when me and my mom were no, I'mright, no, I'm right, that kind
of sort of thing, oh God I knowwhat we're going to talk about,
and she was eating an enchiladaand I ticked her off to the
point so bad where she took itand she just threw it.

(38:56):
And a couple of years later we,you know, moved the couch and
there was just enchilada saucebehind the couch on the wall.
Like it literally swung that far.

Speaker 1 (39:08):
That's right.

Speaker 4 (39:09):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (39:10):
Cause that was that enchilada that we made for you,
Jamie.
We made a vegan enchilada.

Speaker 3 (39:17):
Well, I work with, I work with other parents, and
that is often my moment of shameand relatability.
I don't remember what we werefighting about either, um, but
that was definitely definitelynot a proud moment.

Speaker 1 (39:37):
Well, and but it's a human moment, like I mean that
brings in the whole, uh, youknow, the circle of security
thing.
You know that kids don't need aperfect parent.
Uh, I mean, that's a reallygood, a really good story to
show that, you know, evenparents aren't always perfect
and they don't have to be, andit can still.
It can still leave room for areally good relationship and and

(39:58):
I mean that doesn't evenrequire blood relation or or
adoption or anything like that.
But uh, but yeah, I completelyforgot about the, about the, the
whole enchilada.

Speaker 3 (40:11):
Thanks for outing me on, you know, international
internet waves or something.

Speaker 1 (40:17):
Well, hopefully it'll help somebody, Jamie, to
understand that chucking anenchilada is not the end of
parenting.

Speaker 3 (40:23):
Well, and that the truth of the matter is, and the
reason I do often share thatstory is because it it really
taught me the importance of therepair.
You know, I I made a mistakeand I did.
I did this human thing in humanfeelings and anger and hurt or
whatever it was that happened,and if I had just left it there,

(40:45):
I don't know that Hannah and Iwould be sitting here on your
podcast today.
You know, thankfully I hadenough people around me to teach
me about repairing, to be ableto make that right with Hannah
and to be able to explain what Iwish I would have done
differently and how that isn't,that isn't my best and and she

(41:10):
deserves my best.
So those are.
I'll tell you what, though?
The Christmas, the Christmasscene in this movie almost made
me cry, because Christmas wasone of the hardest times I think
every year for the entirety ofour foster and adoption journey,
because you know even me, youknow, our mom passed away and

(41:34):
Christmas is hard for me as anadult, you know, wishing that I
could have those those timeswith my mom and wishing I could
go back to that space and andhave those memories and those,
you know, those moments with her, and I know that that's been a
challenge for all of the kidsthat we've had over the holidays
, because that's it's what we do.

(41:55):
You know, christmas makes uswant to be home, right?
So I think that that, um,that's a hard time of year for
us, um, and you know, even as we, as, as our family's gotten
older and the kids are adults,and things like that, you know,
I, I think, watching that,watching that play out there, I

(42:18):
remember our very firstChristmas with foster kids.
Um, I went so overboard, itwasn't even funny, and I paid
the price for that, um, becauseit backfired, because those kids
were angry that their parentscouldn't do that for them.
That you know it, it.

(42:40):
I don't know what all of thethoughts and feelings were, but
there were a lot of thoughts andfeelings about that and it it
caused lots of problems for acouple months of nonstop.
You know difficulty, and so Ithink, um, you know it was a
lesson and I don't know that Ilearned it very quickly, but
Christmas was hard, um, holidayswere hard, birthdays were hard,

(43:03):
um, you know those times wherewe want to be around the people
that we love, you know, not onlyis it hard for kids, but it's
hard for us, because you knowwe're just trying to fill the
gap and you know, do what we can.
But it's just a.
It's a.
I think that's a hard thingthat people don't think about.

Speaker 1 (43:22):
I think that holidays in general, even even all the
way down to birthdays, I meanespecially especially for foster
kids, I mean I remember thatwas kind of a thing for you,
Hannah, not long after adoption,I mean, there was there was
going to be a schedule ofholidays and things like that,
where where you would reconnectwith, with a bio mom, you know,

(43:45):
and, and sometimes that didn'thappen, and I remember that
sometimes that was very hard.
I think it's probably somethingthat is a little bit more
delicate for for families whohave been, uh, through the FOS
adopt process.
Um, but I I really liked howthis movie talked about a lot of
the challenges.
You know, they uh, I mean theywere really struggling at the,

(44:08):
at the, the baby shopping, uh,the baby shopping fair that they
had in the park.
God, that is an awful way to dothings.
But I understand that that'ssupposed to be California and
that you know that they are justkind of overwhelmed there and
that that was just the bestscenario that the state could
come up with.

Speaker 3 (44:28):
But there are two things, there are two things
that I just felt so grossed outby, and that was one that was
like when they started theirfoster care classes and one of
the ladies was like we'll takeone home now.
And Karen was like, oh sure,let me go see what's in the back
, what we have in stock in theback, and I'm just like, oh my

(44:48):
gosh, like let's, let's not evenmake jokes about that, like you
know.
And then, yeah, they have a bigparty in the park where foster
parents can go try and matchwith foster kids for adoption.
And how is that not like iflike a flea market for kids?
It's disgusting.

Speaker 1 (45:09):
It's like human trafficking, but legal.

Speaker 3 (45:11):
Yes, yes, it felt really gross.
I don't know, hannah, if youhad any thoughts about that, but
I was just like, ooh, that's no.

Speaker 1 (45:20):
Yeah, she had a bit of a reaction when you had
mentioned the fair the kid fair,when you had mentioned the fair
the kid fair.

Speaker 4 (45:26):
I just think that would be super overwhelming,
especially for me, and how timidI was and how everything was so
scary because I was in a placeI wasn't familiar with bio mom.
If I was in that position, allthese parents coming up to me
and talking to me and trying toget to know me, that would just
make me more scared thananything and not show my true

(45:47):
self.

Speaker 1 (45:48):
So and on top of that , kids their whole lives, like
the whole first 10 years oftheir lives.
They're told not not to talk tostrangers.
And here they are, put into apark with nothing but strangers
and they're supposed to interactwith them, like, of course, you
know ben, it goes even beyondthat.

Speaker 3 (46:07):
We teach our kids not to get in cars with strangers
and then they have, you know,visit workers that they've never
seen before coming to pick themup and take them in a car three
hours to go see a parent.
Like, some of that stuff isjust a little not okay.

Speaker 1 (46:22):
Actually that's one of the things that scares me the
most is every time I go for thefirst time to pick a kid up and
they are perfectly happy goingwith me, like I mean, I'm glad
that, I'm glad that I canpresent myself in a way that
kids feel comfortable to, youknow, to go with me or whatever,
but at the same time it itfrightens me.
You know that there are so manypeople that get involved in

(46:43):
kids, in kids' lives whenthey're in foster care, that
they get comfortable with peoplethey don't know, like it just I
don't know, it's scary.

Speaker 3 (46:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (46:52):
But yeah, I mean the.
There were a lot of commontrends that were, that were
represented, I feel like,accurately.
Uh, Jamie, one of them youwould put in was the was the
honeymooning period beingabsolutely accurate.

Speaker 3 (47:05):
Oh, such a thing.
It may be two days and it maybe two months, but it's still.
You know, I think some of mykids, oh, it was so short, it
was so short, but it was there.
You could definitely mark, andI think you know, the more
experienced the kids were atbeing in foster care, the longer

(47:26):
that honeymoon period was,because it really was like, okay
, I have to make sure that theylike me and aren't going to, you
know that they're not going tosend me somewhere else.
I didn't see that as much withthe younger ones or with, like
Hannah, but some of those olderkids who had been in and out a
few times.
It was really hard for them.

Speaker 1 (47:45):
Oh, yeah, had been in and out a few times.
It was really hard for them.
Oh yeah, I could.
I could definitely see that,because even I I have never gone
into foster care, like I wasnever in a foster home, but I
definitely recognized in myselfthat when I'd go to a new
environment with a new caretakerof some kind, whether it was a
babysitter or something I waiteduntil I figured out what my

(48:05):
boundaries were before I startedto push them.
You know those kinds of thingsUm.
you know, I don't know if youremember the Powells, you know
like, when I had to figure outwhere my boundaries were when I
was, when I was at the Powells,being, you know, babysat or
whatever.
There was still thathoneymooning period every time,
even even if it was the samepeople in a different house.

(48:26):
If they moved from one house toanother, then it would change
again.

Speaker 3 (48:29):
So like, of course there's going to be a
honeymooning period we all dothat for sure.
That's definitely, it'sdefinitely a common thing.
I think the hard thing and thereason it was so, um, so
poignant in this movie, is that,um, like at the support group
here, pete and Ellie are like Ithink we just got really lucky,

(48:50):
we got really really great ones,you know, and everybody else is
like laughing at them, likeright, you know.
And then eventually they'relike standing there with their
hair on fire like what'shappening?
You know?
Um, because I thought the samething.
I thought the same thing likeoh my gosh, we got really lucky,
these ones are really easy, orwhatever.

(49:11):
But you know, and it's notalways like super difficult
stuff either Sometimes it's just, you know, like like they went
to bed really easy for a longtime and now bedtime is really
hard, or there's crying at night, or, you know, it's not always
like big, bad, hard behaviors,sometimes it's just the
emotional piece of it too.

Speaker 1 (49:32):
So and and sometimes, sometimes figuring out the
emotional from the physical umlike remember remember with
Hannah, my leg hurts.

Speaker 3 (49:45):
We were just talking about that yesterday.

Speaker 1 (49:47):
That wasn't your leg that hurt, was it, hannah?
No, where did that come from?
Tell me about your guys'conversation with that.

Speaker 3 (49:54):
Oh, last night, it was just last night we were
talking about it, wasn't it?
I think we were watching amovie where the character oh no.

Speaker 2 (50:02):
It was Dance, moms.

Speaker 3 (50:03):
I was going to say our guilty pleasure.
We're binging dance moms rightnow and one of the one of the
dancers was like in a wheelchairand her stress causes her body
to have extra pain and kind ofshut down at different times and
things like that.
It's like a neurologicaldisorder.
And so that kind of made.
Hannah and I talk about thosetimes where she would wake up in

(50:26):
the middle of the night with asore, sore knee, sore leg.
But I'll tell you what themagic of a cold, wet washcloth.

Speaker 4 (50:33):
Well, and the crazy thing is, it still happens to
this day.
Yeah, really yeah, like it's,it's not anywhere else but my
knee, or like my calf, it'salways in that same area.
And it and it starts with a lotof emotional stress and anxiety
, yeah, like if I've had a hardday or can't sleep because I'm

(50:54):
just thinking about too much, orliterally anything.
If I have a big test the nextday, yeah, my leg just hurts.

Speaker 1 (51:01):
See, and I had just had this conversation with a
foster family within the lastweek where I had told them them
having a sore throat may not bethem being sick, it may have
more to do with feelings than itdoes actual physical illness,
because it does happen and itand the only reason I was able
to give that insight was becauseof that experience with Hannah.

(51:22):
Now there's another thing herewith that I wanted to talk to
Hannah about.
What I had written down was thestrange dynamics with bio
parents after, after being in agood foster home.
Tell me about your experiencewith that.
Like, I mean, how how did thatthat go for you, like for Lizzie
, for Lizzie, juan and Lita?
Like for for Juan and Lita, itwas different because they

(51:45):
didn't experience as much timewith their mom.
I mean, juan was what?
Eight, ten, something like that.
So he would have been six whenhe was removed at the oldest and
Lita would have been a newborn.

Speaker 3 (51:58):
Yeah, Two yeah.

Speaker 1 (52:01):
So they didn't really have as much experience with
their bio mom as Lizzie did.
When they were removed, whenbio mom came back into the
picture, their reactions weredifferent.
Uh, lizzie was very excited,she was ready to go, she wanted
to do this, she wanted to, youknow, push back into that life
and everything.
And one and Lita were reallykind of they.

(52:21):
They were not so sure.
Did you, did you experienceanything like that, anna?

Speaker 4 (52:26):
Um, I mean, I guess not really the only.
I've talked to my mom aboutthis.
The hard thing is is I kind ofreconnected with my bio mom
after I graduated and she thinksthat she knows me.
You know, like from the time Iwas like six to now.
I have had so many experiences.

(52:48):
I've I'm a totally differentperson and I just don't think
that she realizes that like shethinks I'm the same person, if
that makes sense.
So it's kind of hard to have arelationship with her because
it's like I'm not who you thinkI am.
And the other thing I've alsostruggled with is I just want

(53:08):
the answers on why things happenthe way that they did, and I
just have never been given clearanswers.

Speaker 1 (53:14):
Right.
So yeah, Does that affect yourrelationship with your home,
like your family now, like yourquestions and everything like
that?
Does that ever affect youradoptive family?

Speaker 4 (53:25):
I don't.
Mom, I guess, do you reallythink it ever affected our
relationship?
I don't, I don't think it did.

Speaker 3 (53:32):
You know, I think the hardest part, I think the
hardest part in that and I'm sograteful, I'm so grateful for
the job that I did.
That I do because I was able tounderstand that there's a whole
nother side of what Iexperienced, what Hannah
experienced and what her biofamily experienced.

(53:52):
Like I know it from my view andin the work that I've done I've
learned that because I've saton the other side of a table
with a bio parent as they'restruggling and fighting to try
and get their kids back in theirhome.
And there really is a wholedifferent side of it.

(54:13):
And I'm grateful that I'velearned that because I was able
to.
I remember sitting in thedriveway with Hannah and I think
it was around this time of year, I feel like we were watching
fireworks or something andsitting in the driveway with
Hannah and telling her like, hey, everything that I know and
that I've ever told you is onlythis viewpoint.
You know, it's what the socialworkers told me, it's what I
read in court reports, it's whatI heard at team meetings.

(54:36):
But your mom has a wholedifferent side of this.
There's a whole different storythere that I don't know and I
hope someday she can share thatwith you, because I can't, you
know, she can share that withyou because, um, because I can't
, you know, and and just to tryand give her that space to say,
okay, maybe maybe there's somemisunderstanding, maybe there's
something there for me to learn,um, and I, you know, I hope

(54:58):
that she, if she doesn't feellike she's gotten that yet, I
hope she can someday just tokind of put those pieces
together.
But I don't, I don't know, Iguess I don't feel like it's
been a super huge problem forour relationship.
I think there have been times,there's definitely been times
where her and I have been, likeyou know, butting heads because

(55:20):
because I think we all want tobelieve the best in the people
that we care for.
So I think there's probablytimes where we might have we
might have not gotten alongsuper well.
There was like a littlerebellious phase rash in high
school where I think that waspart of it, but but we got
through it.

Speaker 4 (55:38):
I'm also at the stage now where I'm 20 and I'm super
grateful for the family I havenow and the experiences and
lessons my mom has taught me.
And I just I don't know.
From my opinion, I don't reallycare to know anymore.
Like I was yeah, I was from thetime I was adopted I've always
wondered why, what happened, butnow I just I think I would be

(56:01):
better off not knowing because Igot to have something better.

Speaker 1 (56:05):
So so there's a another talking point on here
that, uh, this one's this one'sfor Jamie.
Point on here that, uh, thisone's, this one's for Jamie.
So in in the movie, uh, peteand Ellie have a really rough
day and they go to bed and asthey're going to bed, they're
talking about how these kids areruining their lives and they're
just making everything worseand now they're going to be

(56:27):
miserable and all this otherstuff.
They talk about how they couldgive them back and how they
could just them back and howthey could just.
You know, when everybody thinksthat they're horrible people,
they could just tell them thatyou know, some family from afar
stepped forward and and you know, and took them, and that
they're really devastated andthey work up a couple of tears

(56:48):
and everybody will feel bad forthem and we'll still look like
the good ones.
They, they, still they.
They come up with this big,elaborate plan for for giving
the kids back and and still notlooking like the bad guy.
And then they both stop for asecond and then they both say
we're not going to do that, arewe?
And?
And they're not.
How accurate is that?

Speaker 3 (57:15):
I'm not.
How accurate is that?
You know?
I I think I would.
Uh, it would be dishonest of meto say that there was never a
foster placement and I went intofostering with the intention to
adopt.
Um, I, I did not intend toprovide foster care, I intended
to FOS, adopt and adopt throughthe foster care system.
And that isn't how it playedout, because, man, social

(57:37):
workers that are desperate for aplacement do a really good job
at selling you at thepossibilities of adoption, even
if they're not there.
So that's how I was able to,that's how they were able to
rope me into that.
But you know, I think what thatscene was for me was it was
like that safe place.
Um, they're my favorite.

(57:58):
One of my favorite TV shows isthis is us, and there was
there's a couple on there likeRandall and his wife, and they
do this like doomsday thingwhere they go straight to the
worst possible conceivablesituation in order to make
whatever it is.
That actually comes not quiteas hard to bear as what this,

(58:18):
these 50 other horrible thingscould be right, and it almost
felt a little bit like that,like they were sitting there and
they were.
They were.
It was like a safe space forthem to say the ugly things that
we as human beings feel,sometimes without fear of
judgment, without riskinghurting these kids that clearly

(58:41):
they cared for.
And even in those dark spaces,when I had those feelings like I
am they need to go, like thischild needs to go, or this is
too much for me, or whatever itwas typically short lived and it
was typically because of my ownfeelings of inadequacy, and

(59:02):
that's kind of what I heard fromthe two of them too, like they
felt like they were not adequate, and I think that's probably
why that you don't have to be aperfect parent, you just have to
be good enough thing strucksuch a chord with me when I
learned that because it's like,okay, I, I am enough and I am

(59:22):
who these kids need, and um, andit's okay, it's okay because
the inadequacies make me who Iam.
Like.
So I don't know, is thatreality?
Yeah, there's definitely timeswhere I had well, that first

(59:43):
placement was probably thehardest placement I had and it
was so difficult.
And there were definitely timeswhere I'm like I don't know
that I have any more to give.
And then there was thisreminder in the back of my head
that the more times kids getplaced over and over and over
again, the harder it is for themto overcome that trauma and to

(01:00:04):
overcome those challenges.
And so I never actually wentthrough with that.
And I did disrupt twoplacements and I really did that
because I felt like it was whatwas best for for the children,
because I really had hit a spacewhere I wasn't.
I wasn't what that kiddo neededand I wasn't what at the time.

(01:00:26):
What was required was notsomething I was capable of, so
what was required was notsomething I was capable of.

Speaker 1 (01:00:35):
So, right, that takes an awful lot to, to kind of
admit, I mean, and and I thinkthat it's probably really hard
for people who are in the thickof it to admit that to
themselves because, uh, becauseof pride.
But I think it's also reallyimportant that that people can
set their pride aside longenough to make the right
decision for what the childrenneed, rather than you know,
rather than what it looks like.

Speaker 3 (01:00:56):
Well, and Hannah, are you okay with me talking a
little bit about that with us?
Yeah, Okay, well, cause Hannahwas.
Hannah was one kiddo that I was.
I just didn't feel like I wasable to give her what she needed
.
Um, you know, we talked alittle bit in the beginning
about how timid and nervous shewas at my house.
And I had these two otherkiddos in my home at the time

(01:01:17):
who were just like Energizerbunnies, little Energizer bunny
tornadoes that just were superactive and loud and with extra
battery packs.
And here's Hannah sitting on thecouch and I swear I remember
looking at her and feeling likeshe is terrified, as crap, right

(01:01:39):
, like and not only that, butevery single placement I had had
up until that point.
They were tougher kids withsome bigger behaviors and I
really had learned this rulesand structure and discipline and
consistency and persistence andyou know all of these things

(01:02:00):
were super important for thosekids with some behavioral
challenges.
And here's my Hanny sitting onthe couch just wanting someone
to sit and read with her.
You know there were no behaviorchallenges.
That wasn't like a big thingand I'm this tough, mean mom and
I don't I I think I scared hersometimes in the beginning, and
so you know, I went to thesocial worker and I said I don't

(01:02:23):
know that this is the place forher.
She needs um I.
My request was a brand newfoster parent in a single mom,
single mom, foster parent in ahome where they they all they
want to do is just shower a kidwith love and affection.
And they found that for her.
I mean, they found the perfectplace for her and that's exactly

(01:02:46):
what she did.
She.
She got that person to justpour and invest everything into
her and when she came back shewas a whole different kid.
She was empowered, she had avoice.

Speaker 1 (01:02:57):
The confidence that she had.

Speaker 3 (01:02:59):
Yes, do you remember that?

Speaker 1 (01:03:01):
It was so crazy she walked back into your house with
her head high.

Speaker 3 (01:03:05):
Yeah, and well, and I remember because, talking with
that foster mom, she was like Idon't know, sometimes she just
throws fits in the middle ofWalmart and she'll just scream
when she doesn't, when I tellher no, or you know, hannah will
tell a story about a time atschool when she stood on the
desk and was like let's partay.
And I'm like okay, this isn'tthe same kid, you know what I
mean.

(01:03:25):
And she, she moved back in andand her and my son were able to
have a good relationship.
They were able to play together.
It didn't feel like um, itdidn't feel like fitting a
square peg in the round holeanymore.
Um, because she was confident inherself and I don't know that I

(01:03:47):
could have given that to her,cause I was so entrenched in you
have to do it my way.
I feel like that would havejust continued to squish her.
You know she needed someone toask her what your choices are.
You know what would you like todo today?
And she got that.
So she ended up coming back tous because that foster mom was

(01:04:08):
not in a place where she wasable or willing.
I think she, she just her planwasn't to adopt, her plan was to
foster kids and support themand getting back home.
So Hannah got to come back tous a couple of years later but
I'm so grateful that she hadthat opportunity and they there
was that foster placement forher to go to, to, to really give

(01:04:29):
her that.

Speaker 1 (01:04:31):
Right, that shows an even bigger need for fostering
homes, because one child mightneed multiple fostering
experiences.
That's always the big fear,though.
I mean they always talk abouthow it's not good to bounce kids
from foster home to foster home.
Maybe sometimes it's necessary,not just because it's not
working in one and then not inanother and then not in another

(01:04:53):
or whatever but I coulddefinitely see how, in your
situation, hannah being able togrow into the Hannah that she
would be would have been stifledby by Isaiah and Niditz.
You know, like that whole.
Yeah, it would have just been.
I think it would have been toomuch for her to be able to grow
that way.
So on here there's a couplemore that you had that you had

(01:05:14):
written down here on the bottomUntil the kids are adopted, the
primary goal of the system isreunification.
The best place for kids is withtheir biological family whenever
possible.
Is there still some accuracy inthis movie?
The way that it feels very muchlike when they're talking about
foster care?
They're talking about that it'sgoing to go from foster care
into adoption and that thesekids are either going to be in

(01:05:35):
foster care forever untilthey're adopted.
Is that really a reality, doyou think?

Speaker 3 (01:05:41):
You know, I think for us that's how it worked.
For us, we fostered with theintention that those kids were
going to go back home, and thatwas a hard lesson for me to
learn, because I came in withthis mindset of I want to FOS,
adopt.
I want to adopt through thefoster care system, as in.
I wanted to adopt kids that didnot have connection with their

(01:06:01):
biological families anymore andneeded someplace to be.
The reality was is that thatisn't.
There are lots of kids and ourstate has a website, just like
the website they showed, wherethey had all the pictures
scrolling of, you know, the kidand their age and all of that.
We have a website like that too, and you know there are lots of

(01:06:24):
kids that are on there.
But the reality is is that Ithink most of the families that
I know of that have been able toadopt through the foster care
system did it after fosteringwith the intent that those kids
were going to go home, and Ithink that that was a quote from
the movie.
It's something that you need tounderstand that, until the kids

(01:06:44):
are adopted, the primary goalof the system is reunification,
and I think that it took me along time to get to a space
where I could.
I could put that hat on and say, okay, how can I support this
child in their reunificationwith their family and not feel

(01:07:05):
so much about myself and my ownloss that I can't be supportive
in that Um?

Speaker 1 (01:07:12):
and I do remember that being kind of a struggle
for you a lot.
It's a little unfair to implythat that's not okay, Because I
mean, when you're, when you'redoing foster care and you're
intending to adopt, you know howdo you remain detached enough
from a child that needsattachment?

Speaker 3 (01:07:28):
Oh, I will tell every single foster parent on the
planet, every single person thatI ever talked to, that's
talking about doing foster care.
And they say I just don't knowhow you could get so attached.
And I tell them, number one, Idon't know how you can't get so
attached.

Speaker 1 (01:07:44):
Right.

Speaker 3 (01:07:44):
And if you can't get attached, don't do it, because
if you leave the walls up, thosekids aren't getting what they
need in the time that they'reaway from their family.

Speaker 1 (01:07:56):
But damn, how hard is it to let them go when it is
time to go.

Speaker 3 (01:07:59):
It is hard.

Speaker 1 (01:08:01):
I mean the nature of fostering with.
You know the intent ofreunification, the nature of
that is foster families likegoing through heartbreak every
time they send a kid home, and Ithink that sometimes it's
important for parents to knowthat too.
I mean when parents are lookingat getting their kids back and
whatever they see the fosterfamily being more defensive and

(01:08:24):
things like that.
And it's like you have toremember that you know that they
love your children too.
They had to in order to takecare of them A lot of the time.
What I'll try to suggest is ifyou can just put yourself in a
place where you can just bethankful that these people were
there to love your child when,when you had other things you
had to do, and be grateful thatthey're willing to fight for

(01:08:46):
your children, you know, andthat those were the people who
cared for them when you couldn't.

Speaker 3 (01:08:51):
And the best thing, the best thing I was able to do
with a couple of of placementswas to be able to build a
relationship enough with a biomom that I could be a support to
them afterwards.
And you know, I mean thatdidn't last forever.
But I would like to think thateven now that some of those bio
parents, if they neededsomething, they would call me,

(01:09:12):
that they would say hey, I'mreally struggling with this, do
you have any ideas?
Um, because I left that dooropen for them, because I didn't,
I worked really hard not toalienate them as much as I could
and to let them know that Icould be a support to them.

Speaker 1 (01:09:27):
So this one was a was a point of interest brought
down by Jamie, but I think thatI think that I kind of want to
turn to Hannah for this one.
Now, what she put down was thehurt, and the trauma doesn't end
when the kids are placed in agood home or even at adoption.

Speaker 3 (01:09:42):
Add the air quotes.
Good home Right.

Speaker 1 (01:09:45):
Yeah, the hurt continues and happens over and
over that.
Adoption is the core trauma.
You were adopted, you had yourday in court and went home with
a brand new family, legally, andthen you had the rest of your
life ahead of you.
Was that a happy thing, but yeta bittersweet thing?
How was that experience for you?

Speaker 4 (01:10:08):
I don't remember a lot, to be honest.
I think it was a really goodfeeling, though, because I don't
know, I don't remember a lot ofthings, but I do remember how
much I loved Isaiah and having asibling and I wasn't the only
child and I think that helped alot, and I think the love that

(01:10:28):
my mom showed me was something Ihad never experienced before,
so I think it was a really goodthing for me.
Not that it doesn't still hurt,and sometimes I do wonder where
I would be and how much of adifferent person I would be if I
wasn't adopted, but I'm reallygrateful that I was.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:10:48):
Now is that something that ever just kind of comes in
on you every now and againwhile you're, while you're in
your day to day life?
That, like this is more of alike a base level thing, like
it's not really so much feelingsas much as it is a technical
thing, but like something that'sreally common with kids who are
adopted is that you don't haveaccess to a lot of the family
medical history and things likethat.

(01:11:09):
So there's always thatwondering, that whole thing,
like we don't have thatinformation so we just have to
go with it.
And you come across thosethings as you're going to a new
doctor or uh, or or starting anew medicine or something like
that, that it's like, well, Idon't know my medical history
because I don't have that.
Is there ever anything likethat?

(01:11:30):
Emotionally that happens withwhen you're just going through
your day to day, you come up toa new situation and you're like,
uh, because I don't know howI'm going to handle that based
on you know, my experiences, youknow, with with adoption.

Speaker 4 (01:11:43):
Um, I think one of the things was my friends have a
lot of like baby pictures andtheir moms will like tell them
stories on the funniest thingsthey did when they were really,
really tiny and like show mevery cute videos, and I just
don't have that and I mean Ihave three and on right yeah but

(01:12:06):
I mean, I guess I do havepictures, but I just don't have
the story of from when I wasborn till like I was three, yeah
, so and those are like reallyimportant years like
fundamentally I'm I think sowell, yeah

Speaker 1 (01:12:21):
you don't have those things for you know, like that's
not something that jamie canpull out of the pull out of the
photo album, right and embarrassthe shit out of you with yeah,
yeah actually.
Oh wow, I didn't even think ofthat that was something that we
kind of ran into with graduationalbum and embarrass the shit
out of you with, actually, oh,wow, I didn't even think of that
.
That was something that we kindof ran into with graduation,
like pulling together photos forgraduation, like all we had was
from three on, yeah, yep, andeven then and there was a couple

(01:12:44):
of years in there that wedidn't have any when she was
with uh, when she was with theother foster home God, how does
how does that work?
Like, I mean, do you is?
Is that something that nowyou're just kind of like you
know you just well, that's howit is?
Or, or, I mean, do you stillreally feel it sometimes?

Speaker 4 (01:13:02):
I kind of say it is what it is, there's nothing I
could have done, but it stillsucks.

Speaker 3 (01:13:08):
There is something, though, that I in Hannah, and
that is is that I hear thisdrive that she's going to do it
different, like when she talksabout someday long, long, far,
far deep into the depths of thefuture.
It better be Having her ownbabies.

(01:13:29):
You know, it's interesting tohear her talk about what she
wants that to look like and whatshe's hoping for in that,
because I think I see that she'sgoing to do it different.
She's going to do it in a waythat she has those memories and

(01:13:52):
she has that ability to sharethat with her own kids.

Speaker 1 (01:13:53):
So I'm kind of excited to see that's cool.
So, uh, I mean, we've actuallybeen recording for a long time.
This is going to be kind of aspecial edition sort of thing.
Now we're now we're just goingto go ahead and jump right into
the end of it.
Uh, tell me, do you guys have,uh, do you guys have an active
ingredient from this movie thingthat made you, uh, the thing
that changed your perspective,made you feel better, even if

(01:14:14):
it's just catharsis, anythinglike that?
Uh, we'll start with Jamie.

Speaker 3 (01:14:18):
You know, I think for me it was like getting watching
on screen the process, watchingthem go from point A to B to C,
Um, and then also getting tosee those kids in the different
stages and ages of this thing.
It kind of helped me, I guess,see our own growth and our

(01:14:44):
relationship and I guess torecognize like I've been so
grateful, as Hannah's gottenolder, that we have gotten so
much closer than we did.
We were for a couple of yearsthere in high school.
It was a rough couple of yearsbut you know I consider her a
best friend.

(01:15:05):
You know, like we really aregrowing this whole different
relationship and I'm so gratefulfor all of the pieces that were
in place along the way to makethat possible.
And I saw so much of that inthis movie that you know I yes,
I ugly cried in a couple ofdifferent spaces at a couple of
different times because it was alittle bit like seeing um,

(01:15:26):
seeing all of the hard times andthe good times in one space.
So it was, it was good.
Is it absolutely a hundredpercent accurate?
No, this is not reality.
And if you are interested infoster care or foster adoption,
please find someone you knowwho's been connected or get
connected with someone who'sdone it, because I do think that

(01:15:48):
there are some real value.
There's some real value tohaving that experience from
someone who's lived it.

Speaker 1 (01:15:55):
Hannah, how about you ?
You got an active ingredient.

Speaker 4 (01:15:58):
I would just say blood doesn't mean family, like
anyone can be your family, likejust because you're related to
someone doesn't mean they'refamily at all.
And I don't know, I wouldconsider I would choose a family
that I have now in any otherlifetime, just because I have
been so blessed with the loveand care that I've been given.

(01:16:21):
So yeah, that's kind of what Ipulled from it.

Speaker 3 (01:16:25):
I'm so glad you get to have both.
Hanny, like I'm glad that youget the option to have both and
it's yeah, my life would not bethe same without you.
I'm glad that you get theoption to have both my life
would not be the same withoutyou.

Speaker 4 (01:16:35):
There are kids that don't get to experience that.
There are some kids that arestuck with people that don't
care for them and don't reallyhave any other options.

Speaker 1 (01:16:47):
For me the active ingredient.
It actually came pretty earlyon in the movie.
It was that scene where Elliekind of flipped out on her
family when she told them I havea place on Thanksgiving and
things to be grateful for andpeople who are there for me, and
some kids don't have that.
And the reason why that wasreally important for me again

(01:17:08):
has a lot to do with the workthat I do.
Me uh again has has a lot to dowith the work that I do.
It reminds me, to remind parentsand foster parents that these
are just kids.
You know that, despite how hardit can be to remember uh,
because their lives are so muchbusier than most adults, you
know.
I mean going to visits, goingto doctor's appointments, going
to counseling appointments,going to, uh, going to to court

(01:17:30):
and and all of this other stuff,all of these different things
that these kids have to do andon top of that, the things that
the foster parents have them dofor extracurriculars and things
like that, that they still haveto have time to be kids and that
, as caretakers of children,that it's our job to make sure
that they have that time time tospend time with their friends,

(01:17:50):
time to spend time withthemselves.
I mean, how important is it forkids to spend some time, uh,
just sitting in their bedroom?
Boredom is an important part ofbeing a kid, and some of these
kids don't.
I think that sometimes a lot ofthose behaviors that people are
always concerned about stem fromthe fact that these kids don't
have a chance to be themselvesand appreciate the things that

(01:18:14):
they do have, and it's just kindof a reminder for me, you know,
with that.
So anyway, that's InstantFamily.
It was really fun having youguys on Big long episode.
I am going to spend so muchtime editing this.
It's ridiculous, especiallywith all the noise my dog is
making.

Speaker 3 (01:18:32):
I was going to say you got to take Moxie out of
several pieces of it too, but Ithink the next time you have
Hannah on a show it should justbe you and Hannah, so that she's
talking more, cause she talksway more than she did today.

Speaker 1 (01:18:43):
Well, I'm.
I'm actually thinking that thisis really good Cause if you
listened to my last episode, theone with jake, that didn't
sound like jake because jake wasnervous as shit and like this
is a good way to get hannah, toget those jitters out with
hannah, because, like it's a,it's a good introduction to
where we could let you babbleand she could come in every now

(01:19:05):
and again I'm really hoping toget her on my podcast too, but
we just need to find the topicin the time.
That'll be fun, so uh, so yeah,go ahead and go ahead and plug
your stuff, Jamie.

Speaker 3 (01:19:28):
Oh, coming fall of 2024, september 2024, we'll be
back with our regular episodesand, uh, we are starting to book
guests and get ready to startrecording and I'm super excited
about what's coming.
So look us up on Facebook.
Now is the perfect time tocatch up on the old episodes.
So, you know, join us.
Wherever you listen to podcasts.
It's Roundtable Mindset and myfriend Malin and I are the hosts
and it's all about bringingdifferent perspectives to the

(01:19:51):
table and still walking awaywith a handshake and, you know,
as friends.

Speaker 1 (01:19:56):
So Awesome, yeah, thank you both for coming on,
jamie, hannah, that's, we'llhave you.
We'll have you back as soon asI can convince both of you to
come back.
I don't know, hannah, if youhad to pick a movie that was it
was medicine for you what wouldyou pick?

Speaker 4 (01:20:13):
Marley and Me, or Up, I think.

Speaker 1 (01:20:15):
Marley and Me or Up.

Speaker 4 (01:20:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:20:19):
I don't know that I remember much of Marley and Me.

Speaker 4 (01:20:22):
Oh, it makes me bawl every time.

Speaker 1 (01:20:25):
Up is definitely one of those movies that I get angry
with.
How much Up manipulates myfeelings.

Speaker 2 (01:20:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:20:33):
It's so not even fair .

Speaker 1 (01:20:36):
Pixar.
Damn you Pixar.
So yeah, we'll have to talkabout that at some point.
Now if you have a movie that'sbeen medicine for you and you'd
like to be on the show, you canemail me at contact at
movie-rxcom, or you can leave mea voicemail or call me or text
me, either one at 402-519-5790.

(01:21:00):
If anxiety is keeping you frombeing on, you can write me a
couple of paragraphs about amovie and send it into that
email and I can sure read themon air.
Now remember, this movie is notintended to treat, cure or
prevent any disease.
We'll see y'all at the nextappointment.

Speaker 2 (01:21:17):
I don't need to feel lonely.
I am finally home at last, andI don't mind being gone on

(01:21:43):
adventures for a while.
No, no, cause the best thingabout it is I know I'm coming
back.
Oh, oh.
Of all the magic places in theworld I've been to, this is

(01:22:06):
where my heart is.
Oh, you know, it's true.
No matter where I go, I'mcoming home to you.
So you know, it's true.
Been walking down the street somany times, my feet know every
brick and stone Could wear ablindfold.
No matter what I do, I'm cominghome to you and I don't know

(01:22:35):
why, don't know why, don't knowwhy I'm always feeling homesick.
All I know, all I know, all Iknow Is this is where my heart
is.
I have seen many places whenthe beauty never ends Different

(01:23:01):
cities, friendly faces, andperhaps I'm going back.
But I don't have to be chasingevery dream that I have, cause

(01:23:23):
the thing is, I've got more lovehere than I can bear.
Thank you, all I know, all Iknow, all I know Is this is
where my heart is.
Oh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh.

(01:24:43):
Of all the magic places in theworld I've been to, this is
where my heart is.
You know it's true.

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