Marriage Story (2019)

Netflix's "Marriage Story" delivers one of the most authentic portrayals of divorce ever captured on screen. Adam Driver and Scarlett Johansson bring Charlie and Nicole to life with such raw intensity that watching their relationship unravel feels almost voyeuristic – like witnessing the private moments of a couple you've known for years.

What begins with loving words read from mediator-assigned lists quickly deteriorates into the messy reality of separation. The film brilliantly captures how two fundamentally good people who once built a life together can find themselves on opposite sides of an increasingly bitter divide. Nicole seeks to reclaim her identity in Los Angeles near her family while pursuing television work, while Charlie clings to their New York life and his theater company. Between them stands their young son Henry, who becomes both the bridge they must maintain and sometimes the bargaining chip in their negotiations.

The podcast conversation dives deep into personal connections with the film, as hosts and guests share their own divorce experiences alongside their analysis. They explore how the performances – particularly the explosive argument scene – capture the emotional hurricane that divorce creates. The discussion examines how lawyers (played masterfully by Laura Dern and Ray Liotta) transform what could have been an amicable split into trench warfare, complete with character assassination and tactical maneuvers.

Beyond the pain, the podcast highlights the film's nuanced exploration of growth and rebuilding. Nicole finds her voice and boundaries, while Charlie must confront the reality that his career-focused life has cost him his family structure. The hosts discuss how the movie avoids villainizing either character, instead showing how personal growth and changing priorities can naturally pull even loving couples apart.

Have you experienced the painful process of separating lives that were once intertwined? Or watched as friends navigated this difficult terrain? Share your thoughts with us and let us know what films have helped you process life's most challenging transitions.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 2 (00:21):
Hello and welcome to MovieRx, where I prescribe
entertainment, one movie at atime.
I am your host, dr Benjamin,and today I've got two guests.
I've got my producer, jen, alsoin the studio.
She's joining us today.
Hello Welcome, jen.

Speaker 1 (00:35):
Hi dear.

Speaker 2 (00:37):
And then I have my sister, jamie of the.
I don't even know what to say.
You're from the RoundtableMindset, aren't you doing
something else, or somethinglike that?

Speaker 3 (00:50):
Yeah, yeah, roundtable Mindset for now, and
I don't know what the nextproject's going to be, but
there's a couple in the works,so we'll see.

Speaker 2 (00:57):
Oh well, there you go , my two guests today.
I brought them on specificallybecause they have a little bit
more of a handle on the moviethat we're discussing today than
I do.
I've only experienced a part ofwhat this movie is called.
Today we're talking aboutNetflix's original marriage

(01:21):
story.
I've been married.

Speaker 3 (01:29):
Thank you, Jen.
You're're welcome for a fewmonths anyway.

Speaker 2 (01:31):
As much as this is as much as this is called marriage
story, this story doesn'treally seem to be about being
married as much as it is aboutgetting divorced.
So which, um, I mean, I guessin some cases that's a part of
being married 50 percent, Ithink.

Speaker 3 (01:50):
I'm sure it's grown.
I think it's the going rateyeah, yeah, so yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:57):
Basic movie info on this movie Netflix original
released in 2019.
Written and directed by NoahBaumbach.
As far as Adam Driver, scarlettJohansson and Julia Greer, and
as far as the description goeson this film, I mean really it's

(02:19):
just, it's Kylo Ren and BlackWidow kind of working their way
through a divorce.

Speaker 3 (02:28):
Breaking up is hard to do.
Yeah, and it's from twodifferent worlds.

Speaker 2 (02:36):
From two different universes.
But yeah, I mean so.
I mean we've got Adam Driverwho's playing this brilliant
playwriter in New York.
He's not from New York but Imean there's, there's a.
She says in here a couple oftimes that he's more New Yorker
than any New York.
She wants to live in LA withher family, where they're at,

(03:11):
and she wants to be in TV showsand movies and things like that.
But of course, like any divorcestory, they have kind of an
added obstacle in there theyhave a child together.

Speaker 3 (03:23):
Who might be the coolest kid ever?
Huh, who might be the?

Speaker 2 (03:27):
coolest kid ever.
Huh, who might be the coolestkid ever?
yeah, yeah, I don't know whenhe's with his, when he's with
his dad, he's, he's like a minime sometimes when he's with,
when he's with his dad, you'rejust like, could you be any more
of a drag, like, but, um, but Imean even then that that kind

(03:52):
of fluctuates a little bitbecause, uh, I mean kids kind of
go into this dad mode, mom modesort of thing, and for a good
portion of this movie he'sdefinitely in mom mode, so, um,
anyway.
So, uh, as far as jen and jenand I I think we watched this
movie for the first time at thesame time, right, I don't

(04:15):
remember.
I knew it was one that I wantedto watch once I saw I'm pretty
sure that it was one of thosethings where it was like where
you found it?
Yes, yes, and you were like ithas Adam Driver in it, and I was
like, okay, let's watch it.

Speaker 1 (04:27):
Yeah, I think it was one of those nights where we're
like I don't know what to watchand I'm like, fuck it, let's
watch this.

Speaker 2 (04:34):
Yeah, so I mean, I'm pretty sure that's where that
came from for us.
And Jamie, where did when didyou find this movie?

Speaker 3 (04:43):
Upon recommendation of doing this episode.

Speaker 1 (04:46):
Oh.
Like most of the good moviesshe watches.

Speaker 3 (04:50):
This kind of yeah, I mean, let's just be real.

Speaker 1 (04:55):
Okay, fair enough.
Jamie doesn't listen to us whenwe tell her to watch something
until we say, hey, let's do anepisode.

Speaker 2 (05:02):
You're stretching and growing me yeah, that is kind
of how growing trap you intowatching good movies that you
won't watch stretching andgrowing.

Speaker 3 (05:08):
It's good.
It's a good thing strongwatching good movies torture
like the well tiny.
I just I don't watch a ton ofnew movies because I'm kind of
I'm totally a tv person, like Ihave TV series that I watch like
over and over.

Speaker 1 (05:26):
But you don't watch them, like they're playing in
the background.

Speaker 3 (05:31):
The new ones I have to watch, but those ones that
are playing in the backgroundbecause it's you know that's.
Those are my comfort series,that I've seen enough, that I
just you know.

Speaker 2 (05:41):
So a little bit of background for the audience here
.
This is I don't know how manytimes we've intended to sit down
and record this episode.
Uh, we're, we're taught.
We're looking at like three orfour times now that we were
intending to record this oneover many months over.
Well, since since season one,yeah like pretty close halfway

(06:05):
through season one.
Yeah, so I mean this this hasbeen kind of a long time in in,
uh, in waiting for recording, um, but for whatever reason things
just kept coming up and andwhatever uh because we're old
and work.

Speaker 3 (06:21):
Well, right, I was gonna say my, my prime
podcasting time was with my ownfull-time podcast, so I think
that was a big barrier too.

Speaker 1 (06:30):
So what she's saying is we just blame Jamie.

Speaker 3 (06:32):
Yep, blame Jamie, I'll take it, it's fine.

Speaker 1 (06:35):
Even though the last one was totally Ben's fault.

Speaker 2 (06:38):
Yeah, it was my fault , Greed Greed is an awful thing.
He wanted another guitar I, Itotally have a beautiful
schecter bass now, though, whichis so cool.
Um, now with with this movie,uh, part of the reason why I

(06:59):
wanted you guys on it is becausethis is something that you guys
have experienced, uh, a littlebit more than me, because of how
many times that we weresupposed to record this.
I have viewed this movieprobably four or five times in
the last nine months or so.

Speaker 3 (07:17):
I have to tell you I'm super grateful that it's on
Netflix and it's free, becauseotherwise if I rented it.
I would really be pissed at youby now.

Speaker 1 (07:24):
Right, which is one of the reasons why I might as
well just buy it everybody hasNetflix, everybody has Netflix
so like, yeah, go watch thismovie, it's great.

Speaker 2 (07:37):
But, like with having to watch it so many times, um,
like jen likes this movie,correct?

Speaker 1 (07:46):
it, it's, it's one of those.
The reaction that I'd get everytime I started this movie was
so we're gonna be depressedtonight, okay, jen likes this
movie right um it's one of thosemovies that, honestly, like
once we start it, I don't knowif it's going to be a time where

(08:07):
I can get all the way throughthe movie or if it's going to be
one of those times where I juststart bawling, just kind of
seeing and remembering, and yeahno-transcript.

Speaker 2 (08:55):
Their ability to portray small emotions and large
emotions in a small way, andall of that stuff in this movie
is just absolutely phenomenalFrom a technical aspect.
Um, from a technical aspect, I,I, I don't know that the acting
could have been any better inthis movie than it already is.
Um, and and the writing, I meanthe writing could have been,

(09:17):
the writing could have had thatall of that emotion in it and it
still would have been absentwithout the right actors.

Speaker 3 (09:35):
And they did a great job casting people um.
But see, that's, that's why Iget excited when I watch this
movie.
I was not like, yeah, not asexcited.
I hate scarlett johansson andeverything I've ever seen her in
until this movie.
Yes, she's not my favorite.
I don't know why.

Speaker 1 (09:43):
It's the opposite for me.
I like her in other movies.

Speaker 3 (09:46):
I fucking want to throat punch her in this movie
so many times I have somethoughts about that too, because
I watched it again today beforewe recorded.
Because why not, you know,watch a movie six or seven times
before you actually get to, youknow, do the project.
But um, I, today I felt a lotdifferent about her than I did

(10:09):
the last time I watched themovie.
So I'm interested to hear, oh,yeah, yeah, like her character.

Speaker 2 (10:16):
Okay, well, why don't , why don't we start with that?
Um, so so the basis of this, ofthis argument here we start off
with uh, they're ending theirshow in New York and they're
looking at taking it to Broadway, except that they're going to

(10:36):
be doing it without Nicolebecause she's moving back to to
California and she's taking, uh,uh, she's taking their son with
her, henry.
Well, uh, charlie intends on,you know, letting her go to
california for a while, butexpects her to come back.

(10:59):
They start talking about adivorce and they she's sneaky as
shit well, they agree on nolawyers like they
agree on a mediator, they agreethat there's no lawyers and,
like, this mediator has themwrite down these lists of things

(11:19):
that they like about each other, and that that is truly how the
movie opens, is that they'rethe each of them are reading
from this list of things thatthey've written about each other
and and there's a nice littlemontage that goes with it and
everything.
But in the office, nicole isrefusing to read her list

(11:41):
because she doesn't like whatshe wrote.
And Charlie, I like what Iwrote, I'd be willing to do it,
I like what I wrote.
And then you know when, whenthe mediator suggests, okay,
well, how about?
How about?
Charlie reads his, and thatmight make you feel like you

(12:01):
want to, you want to read yours,I don't want to hear Charlie's.
Well, in order for this to work,you know you have to, you have
to agree.
Well, we agreed, we agreed towork on this.
And, nicole, you know well, ifyou guys are just going to suck
each other's dicks, then I'mleaving, you know she takes off
and leaves, and I'm leaving, youknow, she takes off and leaves.

(12:27):
So, like, that's kind of.
Really, the precedent of thiswhole thing is that everything
starts off fine with these two,and usually they're even kind of
friendly to each other.
You know, like, almost likethey're buddies.

Speaker 1 (12:40):
I don't know that I would call it friendly.
I think I would call itindifferent.

Speaker 2 (12:44):
Well, I mean, except that well, especially in this
context at least, they're sayingall these really nice things
about each other, and then itjust explodes.

Speaker 3 (12:54):
Can I just say this was the most millennial movie
I've probably watched in a longtime, because it opens up and
you're just like, oh my God,that's so sweet.
It opens up and you're justlike, oh my God, that's so sweet
.
And you get a whole threeminutes of feeling really good
before you get slapped in theface with a mediator saying
screw you, we're gettingdivorced.

Speaker 2 (13:13):
It's the opposite of up yeah Up, where you get made
to feel like shit before you getto laugh the rest of the time.

Speaker 3 (13:20):
I was like this is the, this is the worst way.
It's so emo.
It was just emo Like, okay, nowwe're going to be sad.
Thank you for that for twohours of sad when they're really

(13:49):
vicious in these explosions.

Speaker 2 (13:50):
Uh, and and and.
They're just really like.
That's when you start to seethe toxicity between them.
Uh, is is in those explosivemoments, but everything up to
that point is it?
It almost hurts your teeth.

Speaker 1 (13:58):
It's so fucking sweet so I think it gets less and
less as the movie goes.

Speaker 3 (14:04):
Like the more she gets angry at him, the more like
I don't even know how todescribe her like with the
halloween thing and thetrick-or-treating and yeah maybe
I should save this for the end,as some like big wrap-up, but I
what what I found was reallyinteresting is that I almost, I

(14:27):
mean I totally, saw myself inher, because I feel like there
was this whole that sassy girl.

Speaker 2 (14:37):
I hate her, I hate her jamie's, like oh, I can see,
I can see myself in her Jen's,like totally.

Speaker 1 (14:43):
No, jamie, like Jamie is she when she gets angry
enough and wants to put her footdown, like it goes through the
floor with how far she puts herfoot down.

Speaker 2 (14:58):
Which, by the way, I love that scene when she's
dressed as David Bowie and getsoff the phone and stomps her
foot and dude's just like didyou just stamp your foot?
Yeah, I love that moment.

Speaker 3 (15:12):
It was great.
It was fantastic, no, I think,and not so much like her
personality, I guess, but I sawthe process.
You know what I mean.
Like, and I don't know even thelast five or six times.
However many times we'vewatched this already, I don't
remember seeing it so clearly asI did this time.
Like you know, I think there wasthere was a phase where she was

(15:37):
so in love with the idea ofwhat their life was going to be
that she accepted all kinds ofthings, and then it almost
seemed like it was like a lightswitch right.
Like she was like I am notaccepting this anymore and I'm
going to do something different.
And then she had to get angryand she had to demonize him and
she had to go through this wholeprocess.
And this morning I wasreflecting on that.

(15:59):
I'm like, holy crap, that istotally the process, and I think
it's a grief process.
You know where you're trying tomake it work.
You're trying to negotiate,you're trying to be kind and
amicable, and then you just haveto go through a process.
So, yeah, I identified with herso much.
It's like she changed the rulesand he was always the same.

(16:24):
You know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (16:26):
Right and see, like I understand going through that
process and I mean I wentthrough it too, like I.
I am a people pleaser.
You guys know me, I've been adoormat for most of my life but
the way she went about, thingsgot sneakier and shittier as the
movie went on, and I thinkthat's where I have a problem

(16:48):
with her.
Yeah, I mean cause.

Speaker 2 (16:52):
I understand her argument like the, the, the
story that she told in in LauraDern's office.
Um, the the lawyer.
I don't remember the lawyer'scharacter's name.
I've seen the movie five timesand now I don't remember the
lawyer's name.
But nasty, nasty woman lawyer,she's sitting in her office and

(17:14):
she goes through that, thatmonologue.
And first off, let's just saythat was that was a really good
way to do a monologue in a movie.
I just say that was that was areally good way to do a
monologue in a movie.
I I didn't feel like it was amonologue until it got to the
end and I was like holy shit,they just did a monologue in a
fucking movie.

Speaker 3 (17:33):
They just slapped you up with a monologue.

Speaker 2 (17:35):
Yeah, like it was a play and they did it really well
and it like I understand her,her, through that, like how
she's talking about, how youknow she, how she lost herself
in him.
Uh, she, you know, she didn'thave an identity of her own
because she made her identity apart of him.

(17:56):
Um, she, she gave up so much ofwho she was that she didn't
have a self.
Um, because, because of theidentity that she built in a
relationship with him and howyou know, at one point she even
felt like maybe even you know, akid would be something that she

(18:19):
could have that was just hers,you know, uh, or at least
something that was separateenough that that it could be
that it wasn't just him, youknow.
I mean, I get all of thosethings.
I understand that and I and Isympathized, uh, but or, yeah,
empathized with with thecharacter in that regard.

(18:42):
I just couldn't get past thefact that they agreed no lawyers
and she was sitting in afucking lawyer's office.

Speaker 1 (18:48):
And she had already seen so many of them before that
, well, no, I'm pretty sure that.

Speaker 2 (18:55):
I'm pretty sure that that was a.
I'm pretty sure that that was adirection from her lawyer to go
and consult with other lawyers.

Speaker 1 (19:02):
No, she says um, before that lawyer got suggested
to her, she said well, Ialready went and saw these with
my sister and I didn't like anyof them.
So while she was saying nolawyers, she was going to all of
these offices and the onlyreason why she didn't have one
yet was because she didn't likethem right, but uh, but then she

(19:26):
found the the laura dernversion of of uh, jim carrey,
you know from from liar, liaryou know, wake up sisters, no
such thing as a weaker sex.

Speaker 3 (19:44):
Oh my God.
It was such a good movie.
You did forget another big, bigcharacter in the movie.
What's that?
Ray Liotta?
Hello.

Speaker 2 (20:02):
He yes, when she slaps him upside the head with
papers and he needs to go findhimself a lawyer.
Meeting with Ray Liotta he yes.

Speaker 3 (20:14):
Well, I was going to say here was something else that
I saw when I watched it thislast time.
When they were in court, it wasalmost like the ugly versions
of themselves were sitting nextto them in the lawyer chair.
You know what I mean.
Like it was, it was such areally, it was such a good, well
written portion, I think, whereyou got to see it was like that

(20:35):
alter ego, the yucky side, andthen afterwards they were like
why are we doing this?
Can we try this again?
Like can we try and do thiswithout attorneys?
And so I think that was such abig theme for me throughout this
movie is like the lawyerspossessed or presented the
narrative right.
They shaped a story that reallywasn't the story and each of

(20:58):
them kind of bought into thatthroughout the process and that
was really kind of sad becauseit's like they forgot who the
other really was.

Speaker 1 (21:07):
you know what I mean I don't think that he bought
into it nearly as much as shedid, though, like he was
defending her yeah, like I feellike that, that well, I mean
even even in the courtroom.

Speaker 2 (21:23):
You know you put that money into a joint bank account
.
Doesn't matter, none of it'sgoing to be left.
I'm using it all to just todivorce her, like he.
He's clearly got some bitternessat the fact that he's, that he
has a lawyer and that they'redoing this with lawyers anyway.
Um, which I think is why, whyit kept becoming a thing for me

(21:48):
all throughout this movie, likeI could not let go of that
through every interactionbetween these two.
You agreed to no fuckinglawyers, but now you're both
being represented by theselawyers and let me just let me
just like point out here there'sthere's this thing, this

(22:13):
recurring thing throughout themovie, with Laura Dern, where
she's pointing out that, well,they were married here in LA and
they they, you know, had theirkid here in LA and her family's
here in LA, la, and they did allof these other things in LA.
But you know, it's clearly anLA based family.
Well, yeah, she's got familythere, well, you know.

(22:36):
And then the whole the wholething with the uh, uh, you know,
and you know, basically shewould, she would then say, you
know that, well, you know, it'sthat it was so wrong of him not
to take them back to LA, so muchLike that they, you know, they

(23:01):
had agreed to spend some time inLA, and it's like, well, you
can't have it both fucking ways.
Laura Dern, like you've beenarguing about how all of this
stuff happens in LA, but nowyou're saying that they didn't
go back to LA enough.

Speaker 1 (23:09):
But why can't she have it both ways?

Speaker 3 (23:11):
Why can't she have it both ways and it's like fuck
you, bitch.

Speaker 2 (23:16):
Just, I can't stand it.
I hate it.
I hate it and that's why I loveLaura Dern.
Love laura dern because she canportray any character, whether
you want to love her or hate her.
She in any movie?

Speaker 1 (23:26):
yeah, what's that I said?
She a twat waffle likeeverything that came out of her
mouth.
At first I was like, okay, cool, you know, she's really really,
really, really fighting forscarlett johansson and all of
that stuff.
But like she twists everythingand like they were gonna do 50,
50 and then at the last second,oh my god.

(23:52):
But like at the last, the lastsecond, she's like well, I made
it, so you have more time,because I didn't want him to say
it was 50 50.
The whole freaking thing of arelationship is it's supposed to
be, you know, 50, 50.
Well, not necessarily, there'sa whole different side of that,
but that's when they're actuallytogether and I think we touched

(24:13):
on that in other episodes.

Speaker 3 (24:14):
But yeah, I just vindictiveness, I don't okay'm
just going to throw this outhere, right here yes To all the
things.
Okay, he, he also slept aroundon her, like I mean he did.
Yeah so like I'm sorry, I'd bepretty upset too.

(24:36):
That's that's a.

Speaker 2 (24:37):
That's an unforgivable sin.
Uh, the, uh, the, the, uh, the.
The only the only thing thatthat I liked about uh, about his
retorts to that, the only thingthat he said that in response
to that that I appreciated wasthe.
You know you should have beenupset that I had a laugh with

(25:00):
her, like that, I shared amoment with her, kind of thing,
because that that's where thatshit starts.
Like if, if somebody doesn'tfeel like they can have those
moments with you anymore andthen they they have that moment
accidentally somewhere else,then that's where that that
distraction thing comes from.

(25:21):
And uh, and, and so Iappreciated the message that he
had in that, not saying thatit's, it's okay by any means,
but, but I mean but.
But he makes a fair point.
Like if, if you're not going tolaugh with me and somebody else
laughs with me, you know that'swhat you should be upset about.

Speaker 1 (25:42):
And the whole emotional connection, not just
the physical.

Speaker 3 (25:46):
I just wanted to take the two of their heads and bash
them together and be like whydidn't you pay attention to the
sooner?
You know what I mean.
Like if you were in a spacewhere you couldn't laugh with
her and she was in a space whereshe felt like her whole life
was about you.
Why weren't we talking aboutthis forever ago instead of just
going straight for the nuclearbutton?

Speaker 1 (26:05):
you know what I mean to be fair, like and I mean ben,
ben had to kind of witness someof this, um, but like I in my
own divorce had, before itstarted happening, I flat out
said hey, I'm uh feeling morelike a roommate or a mother than
I am a wife.
Can we spend some time together?

(26:26):
Can we go to marriagecounseling?
Can we do something about thisbefore it's too late?
And it never changed.
He was one of those, like heflat out said you know, that's
what marriage is is having thesame fight over and over and
over until you die.
And I'm like I don't want that.
Who does Right?
over and over and over until youdie and I'm like I don't want

(26:46):
that.
Who does right?
Because it's like I I'm tellingyou what you are doing and
saying and and how you're actingis hurting me very, very badly
and you apologize for it andthen you go back to doing the
same exact thing.
At first it was like a weekbefore it would go back to how
it was, then it was a couple ofdays and then the very next day

(27:07):
it would be the same thing.
Like you get to that pointwhere you feel and I don't have
children, I felt like more of amother and a maid and just
someone who's around when it'sconvenient.

Speaker 2 (27:22):
Then I did a wife, like I just felt and if, like,
he had to do anything with me,it felt like an obligation and
not that he wanted to actuallyspend time with me and I I told
him I'm like I don't want thisand I feel like it's going to
end very badly if this doesn'tchange and of course it didn't I

(27:45):
think, I think that with withany kind of, with any kind of a
splitting of people, there'susually some kind of sign, um,
and especially two people who,especially two people who commit
to a, an whether it's religiousor not to you know, live the

(28:06):
rest of their lives together, um, you know, I mean generally
you've got some pretty strongfeelings about that person and
the when, when you get to thatpoint, the, the amount of
betrayal that you feel whenthose things start to go away.
I think that's probably part ofthe reason why divorces get so

(28:32):
nasty is because it feels like abetrayal, like not just a
blowing off but a maliciousbetrayal.

Speaker 1 (28:49):
Like I wasn't good enough for him to want to spend
time with Right, Like I was justkind of thrown aside.
What?

Speaker 2 (28:58):
about you.

Speaker 3 (28:59):
Jamie Well and I kind of alluded to this earlier I
felt like he didn't change, likethere was.
He was the same person he waswhen they got together and I
think she kind of talked abouthow she was young.
She was just, she didn't feellike she felt dead inside and he
brought something to life inher, and so she almost alluded

(29:20):
to like overlooking red flagsand just kind of being in it
with him.
And then her, I guess herwillingness to go with that flow
or whatever shifted over timeand I think that's kind of where
I identified the most is thatyou know, when I got married, I

(29:41):
was marrying a much older personand I was still young and my
brain was not fully fully donedeveloping yet and by the time I
hit 30 years old I was a wholedifferent person and I had
changed the rules of the gamebecause For the younger

(30:01):
listeners out there.

Speaker 1 (30:02):
Please, please, please, please, please, please,
please, do not get married untilyou're at least like mid to
late 20s, because I got marriedyoung and it was a bad idea.

Speaker 3 (30:14):
Serious.
Well, yeah, you don't know whoyou are yet.

Speaker 2 (30:19):
From my perspective, especially with Jamie I, I
didn't really get to experiencea whole lot of that beginning
stuff with you, jen, uh in in inyour marriage, but I, I feel
like I feel like for you it wasdifferent because you not only

(30:40):
did you finally catch up like asyou grew, but then you passed
your partner in maturity and Ithink that's kind of where the

(31:01):
struggle happened for you, wouldyou say that's.

Speaker 3 (31:05):
That sounds way meaner than it actually is.

Speaker 2 (31:07):
That's kind of where the struggle happened for you,
would you say that's.
That sounds way meaner than itactually is, right, I don't know
that there's really a nice wayto say it.

Speaker 3 (31:12):
I don't know that there's a nice way to say that,
but you know I do.
I think what I needed when Iwas 23 years old was a whole lot
different than when I needed at30.
And typically I think if twopeople are coming together when
they're younger, the hope is isthat they would grow together
and that they would kind oflearn like, learn how to be, be

(31:37):
that for each other when theyneed it and when you've, when
you, when you marry someonewho's quite a bit older than you
and is just set in their waysand literally has like the
mantra in life that you can'tteach an old dog new tricks.
I don't know how that's goingto.

Speaker 2 (31:54):
how do you grow together, then your rate of
growth is not going to match.

Speaker 3 (31:59):
Yeah, yeah, and I do.
The other thing that I thoughtwas interesting is they wrote
those notes or whatever those,the things that they read in the
very, very beginning.
They wrote those in the middleof Yuck as they were really

(32:20):
separating their lives andthings like that.
And what I thought was reallyinteresting, and a big point for
me that I did have to come toeventually, is that both things
can exist at the same time.
There can be things about theother person that you really do
appreciate and that you like andcare about and adore, and it

(32:42):
can still not be a good fit.
You know what I mean like.
So I think that was something.
It took me a while to get there, but eventually, like that
anger and and the um, feeling ofscorn or whatever eventually
went away and it was like youknow what.
I can appreciate what it waswhen it was and I can also

(33:04):
appreciate that it's not in mylife anymore.
You know what I mean.
Right, both of those things cancoexist and it's okay, right
see, and I guess I don't.

Speaker 1 (33:15):
I don't feel like I have that.
Like I was young and he kind ofI have the opposite where he
put himself off as like a personthat likes to be around people
and friends and do things andthen once I got like more like
once our relationship was moresolid he just completely shut me

(33:39):
out from everyone around me.
I stopped having friends.
I stopped getting invited to goplaces he never wanted to go
with.
So if I went and then I cameback home, he was like well, you
left me home alone all day.
Yeah, and even when I was home,he would like go out to the
garage and do his own thing allday, so I would just be sitting

(34:03):
at home alone all day.
Um, I felt very isolated andlike that was a majority of our
relationship was me beingisolated.
So I guess I don't see a wholelot of good or remember a whole
lot of good.
I just remember a whole lot oflike broken promises and you

(34:29):
know you did this to me and allof that kind of stuff.

Speaker 2 (34:33):
Right, well, and I mean this isn't universal, I
mean because there are justtoxic relationships, you know,
people getting intorelationships misrepresenting
the people that they are, uh,people who are, uh, controlling,

(35:05):
manipulative, abusive, uhthings like that, that try to,
um, that that do very good atcovering, at covering those
traits, until until they getinto a position of power where
they can make the decisions and,uh, and take the control and
when I first met you, I thoughtyou were a bit of a jerk,
because you flat out told himyou know, man, she really, like,

(35:25):
made you less of an asshole andI had no idea what you were
talking about.
He played the part.
Well, you know, like the, I'm amarried guy now and I don't
treat people like a dick, like Iused to and uh, and it just
evolved um into, you know,talking shit about people when

(35:50):
they weren't there rather thanrather than just being an
asshole to their face.

Speaker 3 (35:56):
Um, it's not also discount?
I do think that.
I think that circumstanceschange too when you talk about
things like mental health orsubstance use or domestic
violence or domestic abuse.
I mean, there's some otherelements, I think, that change
things and I didn't see any ofthat in their story, but I do
think that that can really shiftthe landscape in a relationship

(36:20):
super fast, definitely.
Yeah, reason, and I learnedsomething from it and I grew, I
grew through it or, um, you know, the things can exist at the

(36:43):
same time.
I think that changes when youbring in things like domestic
abuse or mental healthchallenges or, you know,
addiction.

Speaker 2 (36:51):
Yeah, um no, I think I think that's that's right on.
I think that's that's a hit anda nail right on the head.
Is I mean this?
This I don't think was, was oneof those uh malicious
situations.
I think it was two people who,um I, I think it was two people

(37:12):
who had a similar vision, uh, ofof the life they wanted, but as
they grew, they grew apart.

Speaker 3 (37:23):
Well, which is?

Speaker 2 (37:24):
super common.

Speaker 3 (37:26):
I am watching this movie today I don't know if you
read my notes that I added today, because I did add some notes I
almost wonder if Charlie islike super high functioning
autistic.
There were some very autisticthings going on there and I
thought, gosh, I mean, there waspoints where I was like if he

(37:47):
would have recognized that, ifshe could have, like, I wonder
what would have been differentif he would have sought therapy
for that, or if she would haveunderstood that some of those
very rigid things about him thatI think drove her crazy, um,
that there was a reason for that.
That, like, at the end she keptcalling him selfish and I got
really frustrated with thatbecause I was like I don't know

(38:09):
that it's selfish, I think.
I think that that that could beneurodiversity, you know what I
mean.

Speaker 1 (38:15):
Well, and not only that, like she says, during,
like all throughout the movie,he did all of that stuff on his
own.
He had no one to help him, hehad nothing to start out with
and like when you come from aplace of nothing and you build
yourself up to where you like,where he was, like it's hard to

(38:38):
let go of any of that controlbecause you're so scared of
going back to nothing.
So I think a lot of that alsohad to do with the fact that he
was self-made and he had to workhis ass off to get to where he
was.

Speaker 2 (38:51):
He was scared to trust someone enough to let them
take some of that yeah, that'sand, and that's kind of where I
was, where I was at with it.
I don't doubt the autism thingat all because they I mean they,
they even talk about how autismis is a lot of the of times in
this film, like where he got aMacArthur grant.

(39:20):
Yeah, exactly, I was like thatis also huge too, the.

(39:43):
You know that he, he came fromnothing somewhere in Illinois or
Indiana or whatever, and movedto New York, became a New Yorker
and and got on the on the coverof timeout magazine.
You know like, I mean just allthese, all these huge things.
He becomes a hot shit lawyer ora hot shit director and now he
doesn't want to give it up.
And I think, without soundinglike I'm insulting the shit out

(40:12):
of Nicole, that is him, he isthe director and she's not a
part of that success, aside frombeing in his shows.
He knows that that, that herbeing a part of his shows is
important.
He's.
He says himself she's myfavorite actress, you know, but

(40:36):
like, but he did that himselfand I wonder I wonder if that
becomes a bitterness thing onher part where, like I gave up
this possible lucrative careeras a movie actress, I mean
starting off showing her tits insome teenage movie, but she

(40:58):
could have gone into some bigger, better movies and uh, and then
he, you know he ends up takingthe spotlight as the director
and her, her name, theimportance of her name on on the
marquee maybe just didn't feellike it was so important anymore
.
Um, yeah, I don't know.

(41:20):
I don't know there's there's somany things between these two
that that I don't think was wasreally delved into too much to
to show why, uh, why they theykind of separated in their paths
.
Um, because most of the stuffthat we hear about is just, it's

(41:41):
the circumstantial bullshitthat you hear about in any
divorce.
You know the the normal,regular stuff like, well, I
don't want to live there, I wantto live here.
Well, I don't want to livethere, I'm staying here.
And well, you know, we, wealways agreed to be here.
Well, we're not going there.
Why?
Because I said so, and you knowwho are you to say so.

(42:05):
And like, I mean it, just, itjust.

Speaker 3 (42:08):
Don't you think, though?
I feel, like those are allthings that are absolutely able
to be ignored and overcome ifyou choose to.
You know what I mean, well, hecouldn't really just up and move
.

Speaker 1 (42:23):
He had a whole freaking studio there, Like he
had a business there with all ofthese employees that depended
on him.
You can do shows and moviesanywhere, and they're only for
the amount of time that themovie or show is being filmed.

Speaker 3 (42:41):
Absolutely, but I also think I mean I think that
there is a time where and thisis, I think, healthy
relationships there's timeswhere we all bend right, Like
sometimes I bend a little morethan he bends and sometimes he
bends a little more than I bend.
I think the key is is beingable to know and trust that when

(43:04):
it's your time, the bendingwill happen for you too.
I mean, there's nothing.
I don't see anything in theirrelationship that wasn't
overcomable if they chose to.
But we also have the ability tosay you know what I can't, I'm
not vending anymore.

Speaker 1 (43:20):
I will say that when I was married we lived Because
you're married now.

Speaker 3 (43:30):
Well you know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (43:34):
When I was married the first time, we lived in a
triplex and it wasn't a greathouse, it wasn't a great
neighborhood, it was some.
We had a guy downstairs thatwas just a complete alcoholic
mess and I just didn't want tobe there anymore.
And I had asked for years andyears and years Can we please

(44:00):
not re-up our lease?
Can we please go somewhere else, please?
I don't like being in themiddle of both of our families
where we have to pick and decidewhich family we go to see every

(44:21):
three months, that we even gettime to go see either side of
the family, like, can we justlive closer to one and then,
when we have time off, we can gosee the other family?
I didn't even care which one atthat point, but it was always
just no, maybe next year.
No, maybe next year.

Speaker 2 (44:34):
And finally, we're getting too close to the, we're
getting too close to the signingand we haven't planned anything
Right.
We'll look at it next time,even though I asked and asked
and asked.

Speaker 1 (44:44):
So after like four years of that being brushed off,
and brushed off, and brushedoff, I finally said look, I am
not signing the lease.
I would love for you to comewith me, but I am not doing this
again because I have asked foryears and you blew me off every
single time.

Speaker 2 (45:02):
I'm not doing it also .
I also remember that, that youfelt bad about that I did.

Speaker 1 (45:08):
I felt fucking terrible but I couldn't.
I couldn't deal with with thedrunken guy downstairs putting
his work boots in the dryer atthree o'clock in the morning and
screaming to himself.
I couldn't deal with the waterdripping down the freaking walls
and when the pipe bursts, andonly seeing my family twice a

(45:31):
year and like I was just done.

Speaker 3 (45:35):
If you think about even the two of them.
Charlie was comfortable in NewYork and she even said he will
make family with anyone who'saround him.
He has an amazing ability tomake family with whoever's about
him around him.

Speaker 2 (45:46):
Well, I mean because he was well, he didn't have very
good family.
Yeah Well, and so you thinkabout the people around him were
the people that he made his,his chosen family yeah and like
I love, like I love how she, howthey uh in in that moment when

(46:08):
she was reading her thing and heand they were showing video of
of all of those moments where hewas like embodying be being
more new yorker than a newyorker kind of thing.
You know he can and heremembers all of the, all of the
inside jokes, you know, and hehands the guy the coffee.
You know where do you go whenit's windy, you know, and all

(46:30):
that stuff like it.
It really does show it, it doesa, it does a really great job
of showing of Charlie's abilityto find comfort anywhere and in
anybody.

Speaker 3 (46:45):
And, in contrast, cole was very connected to her
family.
She had an amazing relationshipwith her mom and her sister,

(47:09):
and so I imagine that must be areally difficult space to be in,
where he's fine not having anyof that support system, because
he didn't have one.
He left his to go to New Yorkand she left hers to be with him
, and that would be a reallydifficult space to be in too, I
think hers to be with him andthat would be a really difficult
space to be into, I think, yeah, but another angle to this that

(47:31):
I was not expecting when Iwatched it today is how much her
mom in all of this breakup.
I loved how her mom was like,but we love Charlie.
I don't care.
He's still part of the familyand she's still like having
lunch with her daughter's ex andall of this and you know it
really made me reflect on, as aparent with grown children now,

(47:51):
how attached I have become andhow hard those breakups are for
me, like you know, and she'slike Mom, I need your support,
like you.
Just you have to be on my side.

Speaker 2 (48:04):
I need you to hate him, yeah, and real.

Speaker 3 (48:07):
Recently I was in that space with mine, with my
daughter, and that was so hardbecause I really had grown to
care about her significant otherthat she was breaking up with,
and she got so mad at me becauseI just couldn't be mad at him.
You know what I mean.
Like, I mean I didn't have anyill will, I don't, and I

(48:28):
absolutely respect.

Speaker 2 (48:29):
You also weren't going to lunch with him once a
week.

Speaker 3 (48:32):
I was not.
And I have not reached out andhad you know any contact at all,
but at the same time, like I'm,I'm she needed to demonize him
and I didn't.
You know what I mean.
Like it's, it's okay, you gothrough that process and I
haven't explained that to her.

Speaker 2 (48:48):
You can see that with the rest of the family like his
sister or her sister was, youknow, going for a part and him
being a director.
Who better to consult withabout?
You know what you're doinggoing into a new project than a
director, right, you know.
And so they're in the kitchen.
You know, doing all the Britishaccents and everything.

(49:12):
Oh, you want a cup of tea, doyou?

Speaker 1 (49:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (49:18):
And like they genuinely enjoy their time with
each other.
And God, how frustrating wouldthat have been.
Like for her to walk in and seeher sister and her soon to be
ex-husband like laughing it up,like it's just, you know, like
it's just another holidaygathering, you know.

Speaker 1 (49:49):
Well, I did have.
I did have some of that, butlike my ex wasn't super close to
my family, like he went to mostfamily get-togethers, yes, and
we were together for a long time, but it's not like they hung
out outside of me.
And then I I found out duringthe divorce there were text
messages and meetings and stufflike that and it did piss me off
, right, because they did nothave a relationship outside of

(50:10):
me until it was the end.

Speaker 3 (50:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (50:14):
Yeah, see, and that feels a little more malicious.
Yeah, See, and that that feelsa little more malicious.
Uh, that that could.
That feels like it's morehurtful, uh, when, when there's
the absence of that, of thatcomfort, that that familiarity,

(50:39):
and then, because then thatalmost that goes from.
You know, I need you to be, Ineed you to be on my side and I
need you to you to to hate them,it goes from that to feeling
like you're being betrayed byyour family.

Speaker 1 (50:45):
Well, and like it was just.
It was just the fact that my exbasically told like I'm pretty
sure in some words may not beexactly the same, obviously,
because it's been forever, buthe basically said that all of my
family were worthless pieces ofshit and like bad mouth them.
And then he was and thensuddenly friends with them, yeah

(51:08):
so yeah, he was calling them,you know trash and all of this
stuff, and then saying all thisshit behind my back see, and I
feel like that was reallydifferent with Charlie and
Nicole and her family, becausehe really loved her family.

Speaker 3 (51:24):
Oh yeah, and even talked about that over and over
again, like how he really lovedher family.
And I think that's anotherpoint that kind of came through
in this movie and just reflectedfor me is how, um, how it
doesn't just affect the couple,the nuclear family, right, like

(51:47):
it doesn't affect just her andhim and the and the babies, it
also affects the bigger familyand although, um, you know I
talked about my daughter'sbreakup, but you know she's with
somebody who's amazing now andI'm excited to get to know him
and bring him in as part of ourfamily too, you know what I mean

(52:09):
and I think that's that poorkid.

Speaker 1 (52:11):
We're all crazy.

Speaker 3 (52:15):
He seems to embrace it.
It's fine.
But you know, it's just, it'sfunny, how, how I don't, and I
don't know, I don't know.
I just always feel like thetable's big enough for everybody
.
It's fine.
You know what I mean.
Like it doesn't have to be, itdoesn't have to be ugly, and I,
I hope that I think I thinkHannah's over it now.

(52:36):
I think I think Hannah's overit now.

Speaker 1 (52:55):
But you know, I I just that's that's who, that's
who I raised her to be too, andso I hope someday that she'll
she'll understand why it's likeah, it's fine, it's fine, it
wasn't a match, we can all moveon and just know that it just
you are at her age.
You are definitely in that partof your life where you are
trying to figure out who you are, you're trying to figure out
what you want, and that was theage where I got married and it
was not a good time.

Speaker 2 (53:13):
Um, because you become hard to figure out who
you are when you're withsomebody else.

Speaker 3 (53:20):
I will forever be a proponent of waiting to get
married until you're 26.
Just wait.

Speaker 1 (53:27):
It is science that your brain is not growing.
Please, please, please, justlisten people.

Speaker 3 (53:32):
Although I probably would be as annoyed as my kids
seem to be when I tell them thatover and over again.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, mom, shut up,I get it, but it's.
I think that that, particularlyfor me, was the big issue.
And I also wonder.
I think it would also bedifficult for two young people
to get married so young, becauseif you're not really careful

(53:57):
and intentional about makingsure that you grow and make
those changes and make thoseconcessions and understand, like
grow a new understanding of oneanother, it would be really
easy to just wake up one day andrealize I don't even know who
this person is.
Why did I marry them Right?
I can easily say I wouldprobably make a different choice

(54:19):
, and I can say this because Iadopted my kids.
I would make a different choice.
I don't know if I could go backand do it over again, because I
could still adopt my babies andstill have my kids.
I would make a different choiceI would have if I would have
known what I know now and Ilearned from it, I grew from it.
There are parts of me thatwould not be where I'm at now if

(54:44):
it wasn't for that experiencetoo.
So it's such a catch-22, Ithink.
But I think one of the thingsthat I did appreciate about this
movie is okay, I don't know ifI appreciate it or not because
it wasn't like a happy endingand that kind of sucks Like, if
I'm going to spend the time,spending two hours of my life,
on a movie, give me a happyending.

(55:04):
It was not how the world works,Jamie.
Well, that's why I watch movies.

Speaker 1 (55:12):
But this was supposed to be a real movie.

Speaker 3 (55:14):
Let me, let me have reality for two hours.
It's fine, I can make that myreality, but it was like a
happy-ish ending, you know whatI mean.
Like it wasn't.
I would have loved for them to.

Speaker 2 (55:27):
I think that you're seeing happiness where, where,
if you really sat in his shoes,it changes.

Speaker 1 (55:43):
He's like literally a wall.

Speaker 2 (55:44):
He really pointed this out for me last night, or
the night before last, when wewatched this again.

Speaker 1 (55:50):
When he went back into that house and saw that he
was completely removed from allof those photos, saw that like
nobody was overly happy to seehim and like she, she goes
through the whole movie sittingthere saying how much he loves
being a dad and how, how it'salmost annoying how much he

(56:13):
loves being a dad and she kindof don't get me wrong, he's
still a dad, it's just so muchless.
And he doesn't have a familyand now he has to move because
he basically went bankrupt withall of the divorce stuff.
Like his, his theater family isgone.

Speaker 2 (56:35):
Like he is alone he basically at the end of the
movie.
Look at it from his perspective.
He has nothing.
He has nobody.
The only person he has is hisson, and at one point she even
tried to imply that he wasfighting for something he didn't
want.

Speaker 3 (56:52):
No, and that's why I said he doesn't have any of it,
he doesn't have any, somethinghe didn't want.
No, and that's why I said andhe, doesn't have any of it.

Speaker 2 (56:57):
He doesn't have any family, he doesn't have any
friends.
He has a job that he doesn'twant.
His theater is gone.

Speaker 1 (57:05):
And he's living somewhere he doesn't want to be.

Speaker 2 (57:08):
And he's living somewhere with too much space.

Speaker 1 (57:11):
And he doesn't even have his son half of the time
Right.

Speaker 3 (57:15):
Well, actually son half of the time, right, well,
actually, well, the nice thingis the night.

Speaker 2 (57:19):
That is.
The one bright and shiningthing through all of this is
that it seems like she finallygets to a point where she's like
uh, the technicalities orwhatever, if you want to take
him, go ahead and take him, like.
I mean, that is, the one bonusto this is that it is it feels
like it's going to that If youwant to spend time with your dad
, I'll let you spend time withyour dad, kind of thing.

Speaker 3 (57:40):
Well, and here's why I call it happy ish, because we
didn't get to see the fruitionRight, like we just saw the
beginning of, I think, the afterthe beginning of learning how
to co-parent effectively,learning how to put the kid
first, and having thatrelationship between the two of

(58:02):
them where they can accept thattheir jobs are different, their
roles are different.
Now think I mean, if I were toskip the rock down the road,
which would have been the endingI would have loved to see,
would be him really rooting inin LA and really building

(58:26):
because he can make a family outof the people around him and
watching him do that, and thenlike wouldn't it have been nice
to see the Christmas with himand his new girlfriend and her
and her guy, and you know what Imean.
Like I mean, that's what.

Speaker 1 (58:39):
I Ray was busy.

Speaker 3 (58:41):
Well, there's that.
That was like the beginning ofthe future, I think is why I
said it was a happy-ish endingRight.

Speaker 2 (58:50):
Now I do have one clip that I wanted to do from
this movie, and it haseverything to do with the fact
that it's.
I mean, I'm pretty forgivingwhen it comes to acting.
Bad acting I can accept it alot of the time.
What I'm really bad at isaccepting great acting and, like

(59:21):
I had said in the beginning ofthis movie, the actors that they
picked in this movie wereabsolutely spot on.
I would even go so far as tosay that the best moment in
acting I have ever witnessedrecorded was in this movie,

(59:43):
delivered more by Adam Driverwith a great support from
Scarlett Johansson.
And it's this scene here, wow,that that is just mind-blowing.
The who hasn't been in thatmoment before?

Speaker 3 (01:00:07):
cinematically.
Yes, that was incredible.
It was an incredible scene.
The entire fight was just likeit broke me every time.
I saw it, even today, afterseeing it four or five times.
It's like you know all of thoseyou just want to hit someone
until they hurt as bad as you.

(01:00:27):
You know what I mean and that'sexactly what that was.
It was just so raw and so realand that, to me, really
exemplified that piece that Iwas talking about, where you
just have to be mad, you justhave to hate a little bit.
And I think that that, for me,that was definitely part of the

(01:00:47):
healing process was to get tothat space where I could say I
did everything I could and itwas bad and I deserve better
than that, and then I was ableto heal and move past that.
But I definitely might not havebeen a fight like that, but I
definitely had those moments youknow what I mean when I had to,
just I had to just hate all ofthe things that had hurt me so

(01:01:11):
bad in order to move forwardthrough it.

Speaker 1 (01:01:15):
So that is.

Speaker 2 (01:01:18):
It can be hard to watch just because, like that,
that emotion you get from whenyou're going from I need to, I
need to say this, and then youstart saying it and then you
realize I regret saying thisalready.

Speaker 1 (01:01:35):
I definitely went through those and I try not to
say you know me, I try not tosay anything that I know I'm
going to regret.
And he would just call me thesenames and when he found out
that those names weren't working, he just started calling me
worse ones.
Yeah, but in the movie he atleast apologized like I never

(01:01:58):
got that apology.

Speaker 2 (01:01:59):
So I knew that he meant all of those terrible
things that he was saying to meand he wanted to say it and he
wanted to hurt me and and Ithink that's really, I think
that's really the differencebetween one kind of divorce and
this kind where, when it's justtwo people who grow apart, I

(01:02:24):
think that when it's coming fromtoxicity, I think is where you
really start to lack that, thatability to empathize.
When, like, even when you'resaying the most hateful, awful,
loathsome things, that if, ifyou don't get to a point where

(01:02:45):
you're saying something likethat and and start to break down
yourself, then there'ssomething wrong with you.
Like, I mean, you you need toevaluate where you are in life
and whether you need to be there.
Um, if you can say stuff likethat and not and not hate a part
of yourself for saying it, thenI think that I think that

(01:03:05):
you're in the wrong place.

Speaker 3 (01:03:08):
Well, and I think that that is.
I think that's part of why this, this particular story of
divorce, is so hard for me,because, you can see, there's
still some mutual respect there.
You know what I mean that thereis still some level of care and
remembrance of the love thatwas there, and I do think that
that's a portion of what madelike this was a gut punch.

(01:03:30):
This scene was a gut punchbecause it was like you know,
you can see he still wants tofight for her.
That's.
I think that's part of whathe's.
What's in him is this angerthat you know, I would do
anything and it doesn't feellike any of it matters.
And it sucks when you realizeyou're in a relationship that

(01:03:53):
doesn't have that, that thereisn't the mutual respect, that
there isn't some ability to youonly fight like that when it
really matters.
You know what I mean.
That's the only time those kindof things happen is when it
really matters.
And you know, I wonder if someof this for him is that it was a

(01:04:15):
surprise or was he avoiding it.
But she was well resolved.
By the time this happened, shewas done, she had already
detached, she had already shutdown the feelings and he was
still there thinking it wasgoing to be fixed, thinking it
was going to be fixed.
And you saw that when shedelivered him the divorce papers

(01:04:35):
, you saw that when she, youknow, when she was leaving for
LA, that it was just temporary,he kind of had his head in the
stand a little bit and I think,I think that I wonder how often
that happens.
You know that one one partneris just.
You know, I mean, I had been.
I think it was months, it wasprobably a year that I was

(01:04:59):
slowly just detaching my emotionand my life from him before the
straw that broke the camel'sback made it happen.
You know what I mean.
So I think that's what I saw.
There was there was some amountof fight, and it's validating

(01:05:20):
to me because in this instance Ican really identify with him
because there was some deep painthere and that I wasn't worth
the fight.
You know what I mean.
Like I almost might have feltbetter if, if there had been

(01:05:41):
that huge explosion, becausethen at least there would be
like some reason for it all.
But yeah, that was, that was agut punch, that scene for sure.

Speaker 1 (01:05:52):
Um, yes, I don't know , ben, how much of any of those
fights you saw, but like thethings that were said or things
that obviously I don't havethose feeling like I don't have
positive feelings towards himanymore, um, anymore.
But I will say that I felt likeI was putting way more effort

(01:06:19):
into the relationship from theget-go than he ever did and even
with open communication aboutthat, with it not changing and
then all of the hurtful thingsthat he said and did.
Honestly, like I could reallyrelate with Charlie there,

(01:06:40):
because some days, like I feelhorrible about it, but some days
I really wish something badjust would have happened to him,
and then I immediately feltawful for thinking that, but I
just I couldn't be there anymoreand I I mean I lived in my car

(01:07:01):
basically for a freaking year inmy couch and your couch, yeah.
I loved those weekends thosewere pretty fun, I just it was
rough.

Speaker 3 (01:07:13):
I'm curious, jen, is it?
Is it for you?
Because for me, like, goingback and visiting this, I think,
brings up some of thosefeelings, but I don't know that
I still feel hurt feelings.
You know what I mean.
Like I feel like now, and thishas been I mean, let's be real
separated for almost 10 yearsnow, years now, it's apathy, you

(01:07:36):
know what I mean.
It's like I'm not angry, Idon't actively.
The only frustration that evercomes up for me is around my
kids, right, that's the onlyspace that I really I can really
still get some feisty feelingsabout.
Otherwise it's pretty apathetic.
At this point this digs up orpicks at something for me.

(01:07:59):
But I wonder, I don't know, Ijust wonder if sometimes I
wonder if that's healthy, Like,is it healthy just to be like,
eh, whatever, it's fine.
You know what I mean.
Like, am I dead inside orwhat's the problem?
And I don't know, maybe it'sbecause I have a future.
You know what I mean, right,because I'm in a relationship

(01:08:21):
that I feel I feel cared for, Ifeel partnered with, I feel
supported, and I don't know thatI ever felt that before,
sustained, I mean, I think therewere probably times that I felt
all of those things, but itwasn't like a sustained thing.
And you know, I always knowthat if I'm going to get myself
into trouble I've got my guybehind my back who looks super

(01:08:45):
scary but is a giant goofy teddybear.

Speaker 1 (01:08:49):
I remember when I first met him and the first time
I saw him get angry I was likeoh shit.
But then I got to know him moreand I'm like you're goofy, it's
just the steam.

Speaker 2 (01:09:00):
He only gets angry.

Speaker 3 (01:09:01):
Now it's like the steam valve for him.
It's a thing yeah.
I don't, I don't know if that's, if that contributes to it too,
if if I just know that I'm in aspace, I'm in a safe space now
and I don't know that I feltthat before and that's why it's
easier to feel apathetic aboutit.
I'm not sure, but like I said,sometimes I do kind of wonder if

(01:09:22):
I'm just emotionally deadinside or something.

Speaker 1 (01:09:24):
But um, it's whatever well, I mean, I've always I
have always been kind of athings that are said and done
hurt me and it makes me feellike I'm less of myself.
And when I first met him, I wasin college and I was doing

(01:09:46):
everything on my own and I wasfeeling very accomplished in
where I was being like, where Iwas getting in my life.
And then and then I I met himand we started dating and then I
felt less and less and lesspositive things about myself.
Um, and then for him to likesupposedly be the one that chose

(01:10:12):
me because he loved me and notbecause I was family and he had
to to say and do the things thathe did, that hurt me so deeply.
It made me feel less aboutmyself than I already did.
So I think it just kind of hurtmore.
And then, like he secluded mefrom friends and family that

(01:10:35):
well, had to fight really hardand try and remember my

(01:10:59):
boundaries and that I don't needanyone to get to where I want
to be.
I used to be very independentand I didn't need anyone.
I could do all my shit bymyself and I didn't need anyone.
I could do all my shit bymyself.

(01:11:20):
Um, and he kind of took thataway from me, like well, and I I
let him.
So it was hard to get back tothat place and like I love, I
love Ben to death and it wouldsuck for him not to be there.
But but if he showed signs ofany of that shit, I know I could
do it without him.
But he encourages me instead ofsecludes me and stuff like that

(01:11:47):
.

Speaker 3 (01:11:47):
Um, because I feel like I got like a front row seat
to some of that.
You know what I mean Like lotsof, lots of nights in the garage
talking about how, how you hadalready been doing those things,
Um, but you didn't have theopportunity to even recognize
that you were doing those things.

(01:12:08):
So I'm uh, I don't know.
I'm just excited that you getto be part of my family now.

Speaker 1 (01:12:14):
So, yeah, you're kind of stuck with me, as long as
Ben's okay with me.

Speaker 3 (01:12:17):
I was going to say you share a name with my brother
now, so try and get away.

Speaker 2 (01:12:24):
This is Dr Benjamin.

Speaker 1 (01:12:26):
I was definitely like those not only going through
the divorce but going throughall the bullshit with my family
that came from the divorce andsetting boundaries and being
okay with being secluded fromstuff that I used to be, you
know, invited to Like.

(01:12:47):
It was hard but, yeah, I'mdefinitely glad that I'm not in
that relationship anymore.

Speaker 3 (01:12:56):
Well, and that's part of the rebuilding process and
that's something that I mean.
I can see this throughout themovie and that's why I'm not mad
at Nicole, because you can seethroughout the movie how she is
kind of building that up forherself again.
You know she is, she's settingboundaries and she's saying no,
I want this and I'm going to goafter this thing that I want.

(01:13:17):
And I can't be mad at her forthat, because I think that
that's a huge part of the growthand healing from a hard
situation.
And she and I did too, pushedall of my boundaries aside and
said, no, it's okay, it's okay,I can accept that, I can accept

(01:13:40):
that, I can accept that until Icouldn't accept that anymore.
And what's funny is, you know,you were talking about like the
living situation, and my ex wasinsistent on living out in the
middle of nowhere all the time.
Like everywhere we lived wasout in the middle of nowhere,
and I am not a country girl.
Okay, I don't do bugs, I don'tdo vermin, I don't do any of it.

(01:14:03):
I don't like it.

Speaker 1 (01:14:05):
I kind of got that when Ben said he basically like
lived with you for a while whenhe wasn't there.

Speaker 3 (01:14:10):
Gosh, it was terrible .
Between the scary things in thecornfields and the oh god.
But you had cows for fun.
I had cows for fun and then Ihad like really angry cows.
It looked like they wanted tostomple me and I was just trying
to go on my back door.

Speaker 2 (01:14:30):
I don't know they were just regular cows.
They were angsty, they weren'tevil cows they were angsty Angus
.

Speaker 1 (01:14:36):
They were nosy neighbors is my bet, Maybe maybe
.

Speaker 3 (01:14:40):
But it's funny because now I mean and that was
the first thing I did I was likeI am not living out in the
middle of nowhere anymore.
I'm going to go live in a citywhere I have neighbors and
Walmart is five minutes away,right, like that's the first
thing I did.
And now there are things aboutthat experience that I miss.
You know what I mean Like.
So it's interesting to me how Iwould have never, ever, ever

(01:15:04):
imagined that I'd get to a spacewhere I would really miss the
quiet of the country, or I wouldmiss stargazing in the middle
of nowhere because there's nolights.
And you know, I mean there'sthings about that life that I
miss.
I don't know that I miss thatlife with that person, but I'm

(01:15:26):
glad I have that experiencebecause I know, you know, I can
be okay wherever I live and youknow, not having neighbors for a
mile and a half is not always abad thing.

Speaker 1 (01:15:39):
It's all good.
I don't know.
I've been scared of the countryever since I was a little girl.
Uh, my dad was watching thisone documentary, I think, about
this girl that like stayed thenight at her friend's house in
the country and somebody brokein and like slit her throat.
She had to crawl a mile to thenearest neighbor for help and
like everyone in the country andsomebody broke in and like slit
her throat, she had to crawl amile to the nearest neighbor for
help.
And like everyone in the housewas dead and like, yep, nope,

(01:16:01):
I'm good, not country.
Uh-uh, ask Ben about all of mycountry fears.

Speaker 2 (01:16:04):
Not unless I have like 12 really scary dogs.
Dan, I just encourage all ofthose thoughts with my sister
Orson Welles, aliens and thingslike that in the cornfields.
It's because you're a shitdisturber.

Speaker 3 (01:16:17):
Yeah Of course.
Sorry, oh, my God.

Speaker 2 (01:16:22):
Well, I mean, as far as medicine in this movie goes,
I think that really most of itis catharsis.
This movie, I think, would be agood watch for anybody who's
gone through it.
I mean it's a good watch foranybody, it's just a good movie,

(01:16:44):
I mean it is an Academy Awardwinner, I don't know that pocket
knife scene.
That was a little bit.

Speaker 1 (01:16:56):
That was the moment that I was like I wonder if he's
a little neurodivergent thoughthe was just gonna pass out and
end up in the hospital.

Speaker 3 (01:17:00):
The first time I watched it- yeah, no, it's fine,
it's fine, we're fine,everything's fine.

Speaker 2 (01:17:06):
No, we're good it well, and he's like, and he's
just got blood dripping all overhimself unlocking the door and
helping the lady with her bag,and all of that.
How did?

Speaker 1 (01:17:15):
he not pick up on the fact that that like she did not
want to be that close to him?

Speaker 2 (01:17:21):
yeah, I don't know autism yeah, um so, so yeah, I
don't know.
Uh, do you guys?
You guys think there's anyother medicinal value besides
catharsis in this movie?

Speaker 3 (01:17:36):
You know, that kept me in a marriage that was not
healthy for a long time was thefear that there wasn't anything
after that.
That, you know, I don't knowhow I would do this on my own.

(01:18:05):
And you know, I think that'sprobably the piece that really
sang true for me is you know,there's always another chapter
to write, there's always a newday, there's always a new start
and, yeah, your story's not overuntil you decide it is, or
until, yeah, you get to makethose choices.

(01:18:27):
You know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (01:18:29):
I'm not a parent, but co-parenting, especially
through divorce.
Don't put your kids in themiddle of that.
Don't let them see yourfeelings toward like.
Don't let them see yournegative feelings towards their
other parent, because that canshape what they think like.
We have a friend who wentthrough a very messy divorce and
he would not say, and he wouldnot let anyone else say anything

(01:18:52):
negative about his daughter'smom.
He's like she's gonna grow up,she's gonna experience life and
she's gonna make her own.
And he would not let anyoneelse say anything negative about
his daughter's mom.
He's like she's going to growup, she's going to experience
life and she's going to make herown decisions.
And until she was 18 or 19,nobody said anything negative
about her mom in front of her.

Speaker 2 (01:19:09):
Yeah, yeah, weaponizing children is not a
good idea and I'm glad that thatwasn't really much of a thing
in this.
They didn't do that too much.
Yeah, all right.
Well, thank you both for comingon.
I mean, jen's stuff, for youknow, projects to share is

(01:19:30):
pretty well the same as mine.
Jamie, what do you got forpeople to go listen to?

Speaker 3 (01:19:38):
We are wrapping up season two of Roundtable Mindset
, where we've been talking aboutreally difficult conversations
and, like I said, we're lookingat some new projects for the end
of 2025, I guess probably.
But yeah, I'm kind of excitedto see what's next and hoping I

(01:19:59):
don't know.
I have loved this podcastingjourney, so you know I'll be a
free agent.
I'll be floating if you want tocall me up for movie RX anytime
.

Speaker 1 (01:20:10):
And with your co-host Cooper sitting on your lap for
half of it.

Speaker 3 (01:20:16):
I'm shocked how quiet he's been.
Of course I have to touch himconstantly.
He's sitting next to me, I'mjust touching his head and he's
fine.

Speaker 1 (01:20:25):
Maybe baby raptor in our house will be a little less
chewy and chaotic here soon.

Speaker 3 (01:20:31):
Well, it only took a year, almost two years, to get
here.

Speaker 1 (01:20:35):
So you know we don't talk about that long.
I don't want to wait that longall righty.

Speaker 2 (01:20:40):
Now if you've got a movie that's been medicine for
you or you want to come on theshow and talk about it, uh go
ahead and uh send me a message.
You can email me at contact atmovie-rxcom.
Uh, if, if coming on the showis a little bit much for you and
you don't really want to dothat, you can always send a text
message or leave a voicemail at402-519-5790.

(01:21:03):
I can read a text message onthe air or I can even an email
if you prefer it that way.
Remember, this movie is notintended to treat, cure or
prevent any disease and we willsee you at the next appointment.
Outro Music.