November 19, 2024 • 47 mins
On this episode of Movie Smash!, we discuss 2010 's Scott Pilgram vs. the World directed by Edgar Wright and starring Michael Cera, Mary Elizabeth Winstead, and Kieran Culkin. The film follows Scott Pilgram as he battle's his girlfriend's exes.
Hosts: Christopher Roberts, Fergel Amayo, Jeremy Parmentier
Guest Host: Richard Duree
Edited By: Christopher Roberts
Produced By: Off Panel Creations, LLC
Follow the show! Website | Instagram | Facebook | Twitter
Richard Duree: Website | Kickstarter
Christopher Roberts and Off Panel Creations: Website | Instagram | Facebook
Fergel Amayo and Gotham Night Comics: Website | Instagram | Facebook
Jeremy Parmentier and Retrovania: Website | Instagram | Facebook
To advertise on our podcast, please reach out to moviesmash@hotmail.com
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Okay everybody, it's Michael E. Cullen II.
(00:02):
And I'm Sesame and Carter from the All Too Real 2 podcast.
We're passionate about movies, TV, and pretty much all things pop culture.
Dive into the chaos of failed sitcoms,
direct-to-video sequels, and the quirky realms of cinema and TV.
Join us every Thursday for your dose of All Too Real 2 entertainment.
We'll guide you through debates like whether Howard the Duck qualifies as a superhero.
(00:26):
Ponder if Larry the Cable Guy could be the new Rock or Schwarzenegger.
Discover if some shows and movies should have stayed in the cutting room.
Ever heard of a sitcom featuring that dictator with the funny mustache?
Well, we watched it.
We're dedicated to unraveling the peculiarities of pop culture, sometimes with awesome guests.
So, if you're into the eccentric world of pop culture,
(00:48):
listen and subscribe to All Too Real 2,
available wherever you find podcasts,
and on the age of radio.
In a movie, certainly, in real life it's much sadder.
And it gets plus three heart, plus the two balls.
And I did have to put in my notes,
ask Jeremy if this is what a battle of the bands actually is.
(01:10):
That was the clincher!
But no, actually I'm very simple to solve this matter, which I don't like big.
Hello and welcome to Movie
Smash!
Hello and welcome to Movie Smash,
(01:31):
the show where we dive headfirst into the comic book movies outside the MCU.
If you're new to the show, thanks for joining us.
If you've been here before, you know the drill.
Each episode we're going to smash through a movie whose source material is from a graphic novel or a comic.
Is it worth revisiting?
Should it be forgotten?
Let's find out.
This is Movie Smash.
I'm one of your hosts, Chris Roberts.
I'm the founder of Off Panel Creations.
With me today, I have Jeremy Parmentier.
(01:53):
Hi, this is Jeremy Parmentier of the Retrovaniacs Podcast and also the band Subtastics.
I'm dangerously close to being Scott Pilgrim.
I think you are the perfect host to join us for this one, Jeremy.
And our guest host this evening is Rick Dury.
Hey guys, glad to be here.
Founder of the Heroic Awards and also launching Kickstarter Halloween Night,
Vigilante Combat.
(02:13):
We'll talk about it later.
It's an awesome indie fighting game.
And our movie this evening is 2010 Scott Pilgrim vs. The World,
starring Michael Cera, Mary Winstead and Kareen Kulick, directed by Edgar Wright.
Come to this battle of the bands thing.
You have a band.
Yeah, we're terrible.
(02:38):
Mr. Pilgrim!
I'm Ramona's first evil ex-boyfriend.
What?
Wait, we're fighting over Ramona?
Didn't you get my email explaining the situation?
I skimmed it.
Scott Pilgrim!
The pair to feel the wrath of the League of Evil Exes.
(03:00):
Ramona dated twins.
If you want something bad, you have to fight for it.
Step up your game, Scott.
So before we jump into this movie, Sir Rich, why did you pick this movie for us?
You know, there's a whole bunch of comic books turned into movies, what have you.
But I have got to bust the balls of all my fellow local comic shop guys here.
(03:22):
And I got to say, I love the manga comic duplex of what you're getting with Scott Pilgrim.
I love how it has this kind of manga art, this kind of like, I don't know, foreign-ish
feel to the comic.
And then when I watched the movie, they did a pretty good job bringing it to the screen.
So I had to talk about it.
A lot of my comic guys, they're like hardcore into the traditional American comics.
(03:44):
But I go both ways, if you know what I'm talking about.
Yeah, I find people either love or hate this movie coming from the comic book world.
Yeah.
So were any of you familiar with the original source material?
I had not read it.
I knew it was a, you know, like I thought it was a comic, but it's trade, you know,
a bunch of trades.
I had not read it though.
Before this came out, everyone kind of said, oh, you know, I read these, you'll love this
movie.
It's going to be amazing when it comes out.
(04:05):
So I knew it was based on a manga, but I did not actually read it at the time.
Yeah, I had read it.
I'd read the first couple of volumes and it goes through all six because it got a little
bit, you know, I don't know.
I don't know.
I want to say kiddish, but teen, a little bit too teen for me.
But that's again, it falls right into the manga genre in that regard.
So slice of life, fun, quirky.
(04:26):
Yeah.
Me, I had never read this.
That seems to be a common thread with these movies lately.
But I think it's this good refresher for us because we've just come off of doing
Cemetery Man and the, what was the one before that one?
Oh, Old Boy.
So I think this is a good refresher movie compared to the past ones we've been
having.
So I'm assuming this was not your guys first viewing of this movie.
Well, yeah, I'd seen it maybe three times.
(04:48):
It was recommended to me.
It was new.
I didn't see it in the theater, but I saw it when it was out on DVD, I guess,
afterwards.
The problem I had when I saw the first time was everyone was telling me how great
it was and how much I would enjoy it.
And unfortunately, that means I'm probably not going to like something, not
because I don't want to like things people tell me to like, but you build it
up too much.
If you say, hey, this movie is amazing.
You got to see it.
And then you watch it, you're like, it's not what I expected.
(05:08):
You made it sound like it was going to be something I would love.
And instead, I just kind of enjoyed it.
The same thing happened to me with the movie Hot Rod.
First time someone was going to see Hot Rod, I was like, yeah, I think I'll like
it.
They're like, oh, yeah, it's totally your kind of humor.
And I watched it.
And I left thinking, this was the dumbest movie I've ever watched.
Yeah, there were some funny parts, but I didn't enjoy it.
However, that movie I've watched over and over again since, and it's funnier
(05:29):
every time there's some new little thing I pick out.
I'm like, this is actually right up my alley.
So I tried to rewatch this this time with a more open mind, not think of it as
someone telling me that I'd love it, but try to come at it again and pretend it
was the first time I've seen it.
Well, if this is your first time joining us, just a heads up, we're going to be
discussing the plot of this movie and may discuss several elements that you
might consider spoilers, so consider yourself warned.
(05:50):
So Rick, why don't you do us a favor and just walk us through the plot of this
movie?
Yeah, well, you got it right.
Scott Pilgrim, post high school, kind of a slacker from Toronto, had that
international vibe.
He plays bass in a local garage band, so I'm a huge fan of that.
He's dating random chicks and just like passing the time.
(06:11):
It's cool, I guess, but at 23, dating a high schooler still, it's a little bit
lame, I guess.
But the main plot kicks off when he has this vision, you know, total dream
sequence where he has this chick going by in her roller blades.
And I guess that's his next to be ex-girlfriend.
I don't know, she's kind of a dud, in my opinion, not to spoil that one, but I
(06:34):
kind of spoiled it.
Ramona Flowers, but he falls in love with her at first sight, obviously.
And to get her, he has to defeat seven evil exes, video game style and all the
different comic bang zip, I can't write in the kisser kind of effects.
It's fun, it's different, slice of life meets video game battles.
So, Jeremy, does it sound like your early 20s?
(06:56):
Well, that's the thing.
That's, I think, why everyone's like, oh, you love this.
And I think it hits way too close to home.
Like, if I can take a step back and enjoy it for what it is and enjoy the way it's
filmed, like the comic and video game throughout the movie, just the angles of
everything, like it looks very good.
But when I watched it as, hey, man, this is kind of like about you, that's where I
did not enjoy it because I don't really like Scott.
(07:18):
I don't think Scott is supposed to be likable at first.
I think it is a coming of age story, so it's also a story of him kind of maturing
throughout the movie to some level.
But at first, you know, if that's what you thought of me at the time, I am no
longer excited about seeing this movie.
Why do we start with Scott then?
Scott was somewhat relatable.
I felt like he was interesting enough.
(07:40):
He wasn't too shallow and you couldn't put your own brand, your own hat on him.
He was his own person, which was cool.
It wasn't some traditional manga, you know, black haired, anybody can be this
character through your body and the art and you're there.
It wasn't like that.
But also pretty shallow, shallow character besides all else.
(08:01):
Yeah, he's 23.
He's playing bass in a band.
He's dating a girl who happens to be 17.
He's really into video games.
His friends kind of just hang out all day and do practice.
I mean, that's literally what I was doing at age 22, 23.
I thankfully was not doing a 17 year old, but an 18 year old that might as well have
been 17 for a very short window of time.
And even at the time, I was like, man, this is way too way too skeevy and weird.
(08:24):
So it just made me feel like I don't enjoy this, Scott.
But maybe that's entirely a reflection on why I didn't enjoy myself at that age.
And perhaps I should talk about that in therapy.
But I think in general, though, everybody else in the movie, I actually did like,
like I like most of his friends.
I like his roommate.
I thought all those people were really like more interesting than Scott.
Scott seems like kind of like a piece of paper that everyone else is writing to as
(08:48):
opposed to being his own character, really.
I like what you said now about the roommate, the other characters.
They all are pretty unique.
They stand out even with a one or two liner.
You can kind of get their personality pretty quick.
The writing, I think, is top notch.
It's really unique.
But I think you hit it right on, Jeremy.
You definitely are having an out of body experience here back to your 20s with Scotty Pilgrim.
(09:11):
He is very sort of two dimensional, as you put it.
But it's interesting you guys relate back to manga because a manga character typically
is my daughter's related to manga where the character is overpowered typically, the main
character.
And Scott feels kind of weasely until the fights begin.
He seems very sort of underpowered as sort of the guy in the corner.
And then all of a sudden, the video game as scenes start occurring.
(09:34):
And that's what his powers come out.
Now, you mentioned his girlfriend or first girlfriend, Knives.
How do you feel about her character and her arc over the story?
Because it does change Drassy from where she begins.
Yeah, yeah, Knives is sweet.
She's my absolute favorite character.
I would date her.
I don't care if she's 17.
She is awesome.
She's fun.
She has a lot of emotion, but she's also a big fangirl for the band.
(09:58):
She supports him in all things he does.
I mean, she's a perfect girlfriend.
What the heck is Scott ruining this?
I don't know.
I get it.
She's a perfect girlfriend.
But at the same time, she's too into like, oh, she thinks Scott's band is the coolest.
She thinks all that Scott's amazing and incredible.
It's almost overwhelming and it's like there's no challenge, I guess.
Not that that makes I'm not making it.
You know, that's not how I think about it.
(10:19):
I'm just saying that's kind of the thought.
But the other thing is and you mentioned this about Ramona.
We're going to talk about his new girlfriend, I guess, like the plot of the story.
You said she's kind of a dud.
Now, I didn't read the manga this is based on.
Do you think that both in the manga and the movie, the character is kind of a dud?
Or you just think like this portrayal of the character from the manga is a dud?
Yeah, I think that both in the comic, she didn't really stand out that much.
(10:44):
And she was portrayed really well in the show, not standing out.
I mean, she kind of stood back and watched Scott do things.
She stood back and watched Scott, you know, deal with his drama.
And she was just on the sidelines and then gone, disappeared for three or five days.
And then back again, gone again for three days.
It just didn't seem I don't know.
It's kind of a dud to me.
But what did you think?
(11:04):
Did you love the purple, red, blue, green hair changing?
Or what do you think?
Yeah, I mean, that was kind of right at my alley at that age.
And I in general, I think Marylou is incredible.
So I was it's hard to like get past that.
But I also wasn't sure like in the source material, is she kind of supposed to be
I want to say frumpy, but kind of less stand out than I think this portrayal of the character is.
(11:27):
But, you know, I also think, though, yes, she doesn't have she's she's very aloof.
She does kind of just vanish.
She comes back.
She's very flaky on what's going on.
You know, where are these guys coming from?
She doesn't tell him ahead of time.
You know, oh, yeah, you know, she does say, oh, I have these these ex boyfriends or X7Xs.
You have to fight them.
It's just who they are.
And there are people who are in, you know, the same kind of band circuit that he is in the same
(11:48):
scene that he is one of the like the the main, I guess, bad ex.
And it's OK to kind of spoil these movies.
Right. We're past that point.
Chris is like kind of a person he's already dealing with is like this major industry person
in their area to some level.
Right. So there's all these things she could have said, like, oh, by the way,
now that the cat's out of the bag, this first guy showed up.
There's going to be a bunch more of these.
Here's who they are.
Like, and it eventually does happen.
(12:09):
But it's like she you have to pull teeth to get anything out of her.
And then again, she just kind of flip flops around.
It's kind of also very much like, oh, poor me some of the time, too.
And you're like, I really poor you.
But OK, I mean, so I can see what you're saying with the version of in general with this character.
I just wasn't sure if you meant like this portrayal is bad in the manga.
She wasn't or just generally that's the kind of character she was.
(12:30):
So that's good to know.
Yeah, I kind of see her as being the sort of the polar opposite of knives.
No knives loves everything he's doing, loves his trying to plug herself into his life.
I mean, in a kind of immature way, but she's trying to do she's trying to be
that supportive girlfriend.
And he's pushing her back all the time because I think he knows deep down he should not be
having this relationship.
And the fact that he hasn't even hugged her at this point or kissed her or whatever at this.
(12:54):
No, for part of the relationship.
And then you have Ramona on the other side of it where she's sort of aloof.
She's disconnected.
She, the longest time, doesn't want anything to do with him.
She shuts him down several times.
So because more of a challenge, I think, in his eyes, and she's and he's confusing aloof
with cool.
And even what was the character's name?
The one that worked with the coffee shop had a job everywhere.
(13:16):
That was the character that kept moving around, that kept cursing with her mouth being bleeped
out all the time was saying, don't date her.
Don't go after her.
Now you're going to ruin everything.
And I think it's because of those forces saying to him, don't do this.
That's why he started pursuing her and why he gave up knives, which, except for the age
thing, she was more supportive than any girlfriend he's ever had.
(13:39):
Yeah, I love the, you said bleeping the mouth with the black square box.
You know, all the all the quirky graphics.
It reminded me a little bit of the style.
I know it's not, but the style of the TV movie Speed Racer came out about 20 years ago, had
all that flashy in your eyes, you know, make it go like strobe lights in your eyeballs.
(14:00):
It didn't have that too much extreme, but we're still in that vein where it was psychedelic
enough that like it appeased the emo jimsy coming of age crowd in 2010, but it still
wasn't too much that it distracted you.
You still get through the first three quarters of the movie without it getting a little bit
redundant.
So I love the effects.
It really, it really made the movie.
(14:20):
It made it made it more.
I mean, so far this review, you know, we're saying it's meh, but the effects really made
the movie.
I think it's interesting to stand out and people go back and watch it again because it's
fun to watch.
It's like playing a video game and you enjoy it.
You have to get it right.
It's we'll get the sort of effects later on, but I think it is more flash than substance,
if that makes any sense, because it is.
It's glossy.
(14:41):
It looks pretty, but the stories, you know, it's pretty normal.
There's nothing special about it, but it's a fun watch.
I'd say the story is very simple in that it's about, you know, a guy who's trying to get
this relationship off the ground.
He's has to deal with her exes, right?
So that that's kind of normal within all the actual literal combat against them, right?
That's where it gets into the flash.
That's where it gets into the video game and comic references and all the other way that
(15:04):
they artistically show everything, like the band battles they have in certain parts where
it's Scott and his band Sex by Mom trying to fight against other bands that are, you
know, of her ex-boyfriends or whatever.
And it's literally like almost the siege.
What is CG?
But it's like this big giant like Avatar fight they do through music.
Like that's all great.
That's all really, really good to watch.
It's really fun to watch.
I don't know how well that, you know, if it was as exciting in written form, but that
(15:28):
that's what makes this movie work.
If I can take a step back and ignore the feeling a little sad at myself, if you can get through,
you know, through that first part where you get into the combat and that's where it really
hits like the video game things, the movie takes off and is really interesting take on
all that.
Yeah, it definitely stands out with the battles for sure.
I mean, there's lots of different ways that he ends up beating them in ways you wouldn't
(15:50):
expect the skateboarder battle and the vegan battle.
There's all these weird, you know, cultural twists that they're from the book too.
I mean, it's brought to the screen pretty well.
That's really the smart writing.
If we're going to get to the writing ever in this review, I think it was written really
well in that effect.
I think the dialogue was fine.
(16:11):
The characters mostly were unique and gripping enough, but it was just the overall effect
that one and then that writing of the weird ways to beat the villain.
I think that's what stood out to me.
Now this cast, there are a ton of future stars in this movie.
Which one surprised you the most?
Again, the first time I saw it, these things didn't stand out.
(16:33):
I guess the one I remembered other than Michael Cera was like the big name at the time.
He had done Arrested Development.
So you know, I was like, okay, he's but he's like the star.
This is his movie.
But there's plenty of other people.
Chris Evans is in this.
Aubrey Plaza is in this.
Kieran Culkin is in this.
There's plenty of people who are now like big bigger stars, much larger stars.
So it was neat to see who else was in this.
Like, oh, that's cool.
(16:54):
Oh, that's cool.
Oh, that's cool.
So yeah, I'm going to again, totally give a shaft to all my local comic book shop guys.
I thought Brie Larson did great in this movie.
I think she really stood out in her character.
She wasn't Brie Larson.
She was now the character for the only time of her career, I guess, so far.
(17:15):
I think she did really good.
I'd give her a top notch.
But of course, Knives is my absolute favorite.
But I think Brie did a good job.
I think Chris Evans bad, bad role, my opinion for him.
But you know, who cares?
He got like seven characters and seven cast members who ended up playing comic book characters
over the next three or four years that were in this in this movie.
(17:37):
It was almost like setting the stage for the MCU to come about.
It's weird, again, weird to say Scott Pilgrim was the first MCU movie done.
I said it right here.
Whoever did the casting for this, not to look it up at some time, they had an eye for talent.
They found all these future stars before they were stars.
And of course, Michael Cera.
(17:58):
And I think there were what four people, five people that are in this movie, they're now
playing superheroes or in some sort of MCU project.
It's a little crazy.
You kind of wonder, are there other actors in Hollywood?
Because these people have been in everything at this point.
Speaking of Chris Evans, though, I did like what was when we jump into scenes, there's
that for the who have not watched the movie, every ex-boyfriend, ex-boyfriend, ex that
(18:21):
you have to go through has a different fight scene.
They're all they're all very different.
Chris Evans fight scene.
I think he is the second ex he has to battle.
You know, he's he plays an actor.
So he plays effectively himself, just say actor who likes to skateboard.
And he has a team of people that start the fight for him with Scott Pilgrim.
Those seven people that are fighting are actually his true stunt doubles in every in movies
(18:45):
he had up to that point.
Oh, wow.
Which I think is just hilarious.
Well, you know, they actually did look like and so I thought it was just casting, but
actually it was his real doubles.
Huh?
So he instead of just going find people that look kind of like this hired all the stunt
doubles that do the fighting for him since they're good at fighting to get to that scene.
This is really an important caveat.
(19:05):
To get to where he's fighting all those doubles and he's beating them.
You're like, no way this can happen, except he actually was an ace at DDR.
That was the clincher.
Dance Dance Revolutions.
He was the victor with knives.
That's why he knew how to fight.
And if they had not brought DDR into this, this manga, this comic, this movie, you would
(19:28):
have said, oh, this is just some kind of like OP kind of character.
But in reality, you can train it back to his video game skills.
I love it.
So which of the seven fighting scenes stood out to you the most?
I mean, for me, I already kind of mentioned it.
I think the kind of the next to last big fight, the band battle against the two DJs, the Katanyagi
twins, I guess that were two people that she did before.
(19:49):
So I guess it's five and six at the same time.
That's the one that has like these two like giant dragons that they someone with their
music and meanwhile, sex by mom, like kind of kicks it off and goes crazy.
And all of a sudden they have like this Yeti sort of thing and they fight in front of the
crowd.
It slams in everything.
I don't know, that was one that stood out the most because it was like the most one.
I like the band scenes in general for this.
I think they're they're edited well.
(20:10):
They look like videos, but like a video version of a fun concert, right?
It's not like a crazy music video, but it's also not just three dudes standing there while
they play.
So it it's a good kind of live action, you know, music video sort of thing.
The band sounds good.
I like the music that sex by mom generally puts out.
I mean, it's not something I'm like, oh, that's the best band ever.
But you know, if I think about music I wrote when I was 23, it ties, it ties 100 percent.
(20:32):
So I'm like, yeah, this is good.
They have they have kind of very simple straight down to earth, kind of very punk, rocky sort
of sound.
And so they they basically just like play harder like that's how we're going to get
better to play harder and we're going to use a pedal.
And all of a sudden they just go crazy.
I love it.
Those that that combat scene really stood out for me.
I do like the fact that the step it up to just step on the pedal that just makes the
music that much better.
And I did have put in my notes.
(20:52):
Ask Jeremy if this what a battle the bands actually is in a movie.
Certainly in real life, it's much sadder.
But but you know, it is bands playing against other bands to six of their friends.
And it's a good time.
That that is the band is a really cool aspect to the story.
I love how they have it included in there.
My favorite battle, though, was when the sword pops out of his chest and he gets plus three
(21:18):
heart plus two balls or whatever it is.
I mean, it brought in that gaming aspect again.
But it was a big surprise.
Nobody expected to pull a katana out of his chest.
So it was just the effects and the surprise was to me the best fight scene was that last
one.
Not Gideon.
And I'm not a fan of Ramona.
(21:40):
But the fact that he pulled a katana out of his chest and got level up, that was the school.
I enjoy the Patel scene.
The first fight, the very first fight.
It's actually they built it around like a Bollywood scene.
And I thought that was very clever.
And it felt it was it was the first one because it surprises you that this is where this movie
is going to go.
And that's why I like that.
That's why I found to be one of the better ones is because it had that element of surprise
(22:03):
to it.
I mean, after that, you're expecting it.
Of course, the vegan fight.
I didn't expect it to end that way.
Vegan, vegan fight was so weird that the ending was appropriate.
Yes.
Yep.
Almost like a weird fever dream.
The whole movie is a weird fever dream.
Yeah, but that specifically like the other ones, they all kind of flow their own with
(22:24):
that combat feel, the video game feel.
That other one is kind of like what?
But it still works because it was such a weird fight.
Well, because it ties into the writing, Rick, like you were saying, is because he has super
powers, the vegan, because he's better than you.
That's it.
Just because he's a vegan, he's better than you.
And he loses power because he eats something that's not vegan.
(22:45):
And that's just it's just clever.
The vegan police show up and arrest him.
I love how he had three strikes of drinking milk or what have you.
And that was so cool because a lot of people who claim vegan just don't even know all the
ins and outs of this Omni vegan, whatever he claims to be.
So it was interesting for many readers, maybe some young girl who wants to be a vegan and
(23:06):
watches this.
Well, maybe it might actually be a little bit more about what she's getting into.
That could be educational too, which is a good ad.
Yeah.
What were his three violations?
One was he had half an F. One was the chicken parm.
And I forgot what the last one was.
He had a gelato gelato because I didn't know that had cream in it.
(23:27):
It was egg.
It had egg in it, which is just hilarious.
What other scenes set out to you guys?
Well, I don't know about scenes, but you want to talk about some of the effects.
We talked about these fights.
I love the first time he has the fight with, I guess, Patel or whatever.
And he does that final move on him.
It looks like a video game finishing move.
Also, he burst into coins like you're playing River City Ransom or whatever.
(23:48):
It's like, oh, two dollars and 10 cents.
What am I going to do?
I can't even get a bus fare with this or whatever.
But I love that kind of stuff.
That references back to games that I was like, oh, I knew exactly what they're aiming at
here.
This is neat.
I get all this.
This is great.
So that I love the first time that happens with the coins and the fact that each boss
he fights explodes into larger piles of coins and it tells him over how much his score and
total like, I guess, total value or whatever would go up if these are total money or total
(24:11):
score doesn't matter.
But the idea is it's there and each one goes up higher and higher and higher.
And the coin explosions more and more offensively large.
It's pretty great.
I do love that effect.
And getting it with seven million points.
Yeah, I just couldn't stop laughing at just how far they went with the gay scene.
Like he's in bed with his roommate whose boyfriend's boyfriend's boyfriend are all there waking
(24:34):
up.
It was just over the top and hilarious.
So that was a cool standout scene.
There are also a lot of video game references in this movie.
Did anyone any catch your eye?
Well, like the band names, the other bands when there was Clash of Demonhead, that's
a great NES game.
In fact, his band itself, Sex Bomb-omb, the bomb-omb is from the Mario games.
Like all this stuff ties in with that kind of culture, the video game culture.
(24:57):
Again, it all it all screams me at twenty three, which is why this was a hard watch
the first time.
But now I've come to appreciate a little more watching it, trying to step back.
Maybe it's just I'm older now.
So I feel like a little less connected than I did then.
I really like the Zelda NES sound effects.
There was a couple of different Zelda game musics in there, not just from Zelda one,
(25:17):
but the one from Super Nintendo.
And I don't know, I just really liked the sound effects dating back to the games.
And I really don't remember a time before Scott Pilgrim where 80s and 90s video game
sound effects were in mainstream movies.
But since then, there's been a whole handful of them that have used old pixel like eight
(25:38):
bit sound.
But this this really was a trend center for me.
Unless I'm missing something from 2002 or whatever.
I think you're right.
I think that you have Ready Player One, you have the Pixel movie.
Yeah.
And they actually had to go and get the rights that those that's those Zelda sound effects
because Nintendo will sue you.
Yeah, I was going to say that's not a surprise.
Nintendo is not afraid to take a lawsuit.
(25:58):
The music really, really did well.
And now it's like told mainstream to have music.
In fact, indie video games, vigilante combat, indie video games are using this old eight
bit music.
And when they go to steam, you can go on steam and get some indie games, pick pick any of
them and they'll have really interesting beep bop boop type music.
(26:21):
And it just throws you back in time.
So this movie runs just shy of two hours.
Does it feel like two hours?
Yeah, it's a little bit long.
And I think you got a little redundant.
That's my opinion.
I think everybody got who is ripped to the end.
It does take a little while even to get to those first fights.
And then it does get a little repetitive.
But each fight is different enough that it stood out.
(26:42):
I don't think it felt like two hours.
I don't think it flew by by any means.
But it didn't feel like when I saw it was a two hour running time, I was like, oh boy.
But I didn't get I didn't have to stop this in the middle and do something else or take
a break and come back.
I watched this entirely in one sitting actually this morning so I can get a good reminder
on it.
And I did not think it was two hours by the time it did.
But it does have some slow moments.
(27:03):
And if you're not if you don't enjoy the combat, if you don't kind of like the cycle that the
game that this movie starts, I call it a game because it feels that way.
The cycle of movie starts, you might get bored with it about midway till you get to kind
of those last two fights again.
Time wise, I think I didn't check the clock till about an hour and 45.
And I was surprised when I had a few minutes left of the movie.
It was fine.
Length.
(27:23):
I don't think that's really an issue as much as if you can enjoy the ending because of
the path.
But the ending was worth it.
And when we got to the very end and he chooses Ramona, fine, that's a happy ending, I guess.
But she's just going to be another X.
But I mean, what if Goody got back with Knives?
That would have been the best.
(27:46):
You really are leading on a whole Knives thing.
So let's talk about the ending.
He goes through all these fights.
He defeats all the X's and Ramona is like, I'll see you later.
And she decides to start leaving.
And Knives is the one who actually pushes him to follow her.
Did you find that to be a satisfying ending?
I didn't.
The first time I watched it, I kind of thought it was an ending.
(28:07):
Like, I don't know, not a good or bad.
It was like, why would that even be the ending?
But this time I watched it because, again, I tried to keep a more open mind on it.
You do have during that last fight, Scott kind of learns self-respect and some kind
of self-worth.
So the idea at the end is that she's going to go away and start again.
She wants to, she's like, I didn't get my new life.
So we're going to, I'm going to try again.
And so it was him kind of getting that, that amount of self-worth to say, Hey, I'm going
(28:28):
to, I am going to follow you.
I'm going to say, I will follow you through this new life as opposed to, okay, I guess
I'll just stay here then and hang out with Knives or whoever it is that I'm going to
run into because you don't want to be here.
Right.
It's actually having some self-worth to say, wait, I could be that new start.
So I didn't hate it this time, but the first time I saw it, I was kind of like, that's
a non-ending.
That's just like a thing.
And then, and then the movie ends.
So this time I felt a little better about it, but I also maybe tried a little too hard
(28:50):
to find some meaning into it.
So
You got it right, there was, there was an attempt at meaning and such and, you know,
growing up and learning from yourself.
It was hard to see when he was confessing his cheating on each other, on both girls.
I mean, that was, that wasn't your face morals, which was great.
I loved seeing that a little bit was, it pulled at you a little bit, but then the girl, Lamona
(29:15):
just leaves him again for the fifth time in the movie and he's still chasing after her.
I mean, come on.
He didn't get enough balls plus two from his katana sword.
Yeah, that was not the life lesson he learned.
The life lesson was don't cheat on your girlfriend, no matter how many you have.
Now, this movie leans heavily on special effects.
(29:36):
Do you think they've, they stood up over the past decade?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It was because it was like animation slash video game effects.
It wasn't, you know, you weren't trying to do Jurassic Park dinosaurs here.
You were trying, or Avatar.
You weren't doing that.
It was, it was gamey fun.
I don't think it's ever going to really go out.
I think 20 years from now we're still going to look back and it's going to be the same,
(29:59):
you know, fun video gamey concept that it was 20 years ago.
Yeah, I also just the way it's shot, the way it's styled, there's a lot of imagery that's
supposed to kind of look like a comic panel or like a specific scene that they're really
trying to get this emotion out of.
Like the, even like there's a section where Scott and Rona go stand, you know, go to like
these swings and you see their footprints up to the swings and later on they revisit it
(30:19):
when he's by himself and it's just his footprints up to the swings and you just see that.
Like there's a lot of angles and there's the way it's shot where it's kind of shiny that
even though those effects are kind of outlandish, they work.
It doesn't, it's not like it's a completely serious movie with these CG effect dragons
that come in at any point.
It looks like a shiny video game.
So having these effects, I think will hold stand up because the whole movie feels that
(30:40):
way.
Two things are the effects for me.
One, I liked the intro where it's showing their ages and their names.
It made it feel very much like I'm reading some sort of comic panel where they're giving
me the extra information I need to know without just saying to me the information they need
to know.
But I think you're right because this movie leans heavily on retro video game styles that
I think as it ages, the fact that they use retro style graphics on sort of the special
(31:04):
effects, they've had that feel.
It's going to feel more and more retro as it goes along and that is not a hindrance
to it.
I think it plays more into sort of what they were going for.
Yeah, I think Jeremy got it right with the angles, the cinematography.
If I were to critique it, I would say high marks on that.
Much better than I expected from this kind of like straight to VHS style of a thing.
(31:25):
Not to be rude or anything, but it just wasn't blockbuster-y even though the cast was amazing.
I thought it did well.
The cinematography was really good.
Would I say that this is something I'm going to watch again?
Well, I've watched it three times, so I'm sure I'll say, you know what?
Put on the fun video game movie again.
I might do that in 10 years.
My kids liked it.
They watched it with me.
(31:46):
They thought it was cool.
Again, I went right back to the manga again just to check it out real fast and it just
follows it really close.
I think they did a good job.
Anytime you follow the book really close, you're much more likely to hit a home run
than not, in my opinion.
Good on them for doing that.
I think they used the special effects for sort of good small details too.
One in particular said to me for whatever reason, when she delivers the Amazon package
(32:10):
and she's skating away, the snow is clearing for her as she's going.
I mean, someone spent the time to think about that, like how do we make this work to give
an idea that there's snow there, but like I said, it parts for her like parting in the
Red Sea.
It's a little detail, but those are the things I appreciate the most.
So I think this movie's got a lot of different themes in it.
We sort of touched on Scott's arc.
I mean, Scott's arc is the bulk of this movie.
(32:32):
It's him getting past, and I thought this was a negative at first, but now that I, you
know, on the second view, I think that's kind of what he gets out of is kind of the gamifying
of life and the relationship and everything else.
It's not just like, oh, I met this girl and we have a lot in common and I want to start
a life with her.
It was like, oh, this girl is beautiful.
I have to date this girl.
And you know, now it's not just a date or buy have to beat her exes.
(32:54):
I have to actually go up, you know, level up each time with her.
Right.
So this it's this kind of weird, almost like a quest for love that isn't necessarily love.
It's like a lust quest.
I don't know.
It's kind of the growing out of that is what happens throughout the movie with him kind
of getting that self-respect towards the end.
That's all there.
And it's definitely like with the video game reference, everything else, it's not just
subtle.
(33:15):
It's like in your face like, oh, you know, this is gamifying your relationship and life
in general.
Right.
Trying to get a band with a bigger and bigger location, get a bigger and bigger audience.
It's leveling everything up, getting better points, getting better, whatever.
Right.
It's it's kind of the the over feeling, the feeling of the whole movie.
Really?
It was a it was a bit isekai in that regard.
You're totally right.
Like living in a video game and leveling up, it's exactly what it was.
(33:39):
And if we look at it from that perspective, if you guys have read many manga or seen much
anime, the plots sometimes can be the best ever, like Death Note or what have you.
But some of the plots are just silly slice of life genre.
And this this manga comic tries really hard to be slice of life meets isekai and be surprising.
(34:03):
But it can't leave the slice of it just doesn't leave it.
So more of the story.
I don't know.
Go up earlier.
Date again.
Maybe and have fun.
Yeah.
I drew the whole gamification of it.
That is does feel like he's going through his levels.
But I think he wants that further.
(34:24):
Ramona is the princess that is in the other castle.
The princess in those older games are very two dimensional.
They're not they're just the prize you're going for.
And I think that's the way his life is going.
So he gets self respect, though he gets confidence, though he realizes he's he's not necessarily
the good guy in the story as he's going along.
But I don't think he fully learns the lesson of what he's going after.
(34:45):
I think if he had stayed with knives, that would be the decision.
That means he's fully come around and learn those things, except for the age problem.
Maybe but I think the other arc of this is that Ramona thinks she's having a new start
in life, right?
She thinks she's escaping, dating a bunch of guys who are treating life like a level
up like you're in a video game, whatever.
And so every time she finds out one more thing about Scott that is much like what she was
(35:05):
in.
Oh, you're in a band, of course.
Of course, you're in.
All right.
Yeah.
Mm hmm.
Like it's like, oh, I didn't escape at all.
And so the ending being where she's like going to try to go out and try again.
And Scott is no longer in a band.
He's no longer in Sex by Mom.
They've replaced him with somebody else because he refused this contract or whatever.
And he's become more grown up, become his own person more than he was at the start of
the movie.
(35:26):
So it's kind of like a start for both of them.
Sure, they might have met in the the previous cycle she was stuck in, but perhaps together
they can break those cycles.
I love what you just said about Sex by Mom.
One, two, three, four, we're Sex by Mom.
We're here to make money and sell out and stuff.
I mean, it was just it was such good writing.
It was so hilarious.
There's little quips like that that stand out to me that make this movie worth watching
again, because it's written so so off the cup, youthful and fun and modern.
So I think it's a great movie.
I think it's a great movie.
I think it's a great movie.
I think it's a great movie.
I think it's a great movie.
(35:46):
I think it's a great movie.
I think it's a great movie.
I think it's a great movie.
I think it's a great movie.
So I love that part of it.
I love what you also said.
And listen here, the princess is a 2D character.
Ramona definitely fits that.
(36:07):
Maybe they tried to make her only 2D so she could be like the princess in the castle.
Because you got that right on, Chris.
You must have studied up for this thing or something.
You must have prepared for this podcast because you knew what to say right there.
Now one article I did actually read, not about the princess thing, but they said that all
the X's, including Scott himself, represented the different seven deadly sins.
(36:29):
I want to get your take on that.
They say Matthew Patel was wrath, that anger he had at the very beginning.
Lucas Lee was pride.
Natalie was envy.
And what was it called?
I'm looking at my list here.
There's the twins though.
Yeah, there's the twins.
We're envy.
Todd was gluttony.
Roxy was lust.
Gideon was greed.
(36:50):
And Scott himself was sloth.
When you explain it, I can see it, but I wouldn't pick that up.
I totally love that subtle Easter egg you just gave us.
I'm going to look back on it a different way now, but totally not picking it up during
the movie at all.
It's one of those things where I'm wondering if the analogy is forced onto the movie or
the actual writers thought of that while they were creating it.
(37:13):
Well, you know, I wrote a comic book.
I'm at my third or fourth issue.
I don't know how far I am right now, but I put things in my book that I can see when
I read it, but I don't think anyone's going to see them.
Maybe this is one of those things where the writer is a little bit vain, where it's about
they want to put it in, but they do it in a way that no one knows just because on accident,
(37:35):
because it's too inward looking.
Maybe that's what it is.
I don't know.
I think the other thing can happen, and I've had this happen with songs.
I've written songs that have a meaning to me, but I intentionally leave it vague, and
then people read into what they think it means.
I hear later on like, oh, I thought that song was about this.
No.
I mean, yes, I can see why you thought that, and that's cool that you would have interpreted
what I said that way.
But no, actually, I'm very simple.
(37:56):
The song is about how much I don't like bacon or whatever the topic is.
I'm like, oh, is this about the fall of communism?
No, not at all.
It's not at all.
It's about the thrift store.
I don't know how you read that, but I've had that happen, so maybe it's a similar thing.
You put all these things, and maybe it was subconscious to have those kind of seven.
Because the seven deadly sins aren't unique.
It's a very much pick out bad facets of humanity and name them, right?
(38:19):
So it's pretty easy to be like, oh, yeah, I'll just kind of have each person be bad,
and maybe you subconsciously made them the seven deadly sins.
So pretty neat.
Could you see this as the spinoff of the movie set, or which one would you say came first?
Oh, yeah, seven's later.
That's what Scott Pilgrim grows up.
He comes a detective.
It all goes on from there.
Wow, this got so dark just now.
Happy Halloween.
(38:39):
Scott's off solving murders in a city where it is always raining.
His wife gets her head chopped off and put in a box.
Maybe that's Ramona's head for all we know.
That's Ramona.
Now I like the movie.
I think this is a good movie.
This is a really top notch movie.
I see it now.
Game pieces are coming together.
So guys, what did you love about this movie, and what could they have done better?
(39:01):
I mean, I love the cinematography.
I love the band's aspects.
I think the effects are cool.
The story itself, as you mentioned, a little flat if you just drove it out.
Here's the arc we're going with.
It's pretty simple, but I don't know if I necessarily would change that.
I don't know how you can build that out without making it a completely different thing.
I like how they didn't shy away from the kissing and the romance side.
(39:23):
A lot of the youthful mangas shy away from it.
They tease it really strong, but then they don't really go there.
I think they went, the manga, both the comic and the movie went there a little bit just
enough for this age period that we're shooting for here of the teenage angst period.
So I'm glad they didn't shy away from that.
Otherwise, it would have been a little bit too cheesy.
Best part of the movies.
Did I mention there was a katana that he pulled out of his chest?
(39:46):
Yes.
Because that was really cool.
Didn't he also get a katana put through his chest at one point before he uses one up?
Yeah.
And then he got a second katana.
I mean, three katanas really in his chest.
So trifecta.
It's a very katana heavy movie.
At least the end.
So for me, I love the video game aspects of it.
I think it could have used more katanas.
(40:08):
It only had three.
We need at least a dozen to make it really work.
In all seriousness, it's a fun movie.
It was enjoyable.
It's a little slower in parts, but in general, I have no big problems with the movie.
Now that it's been over a decade since the movie came out and they've tried doing a TV
show about it, should they remake this movie and bring it back?
No.
Yeah, I agree.
(40:28):
I think.
There's too many good stories out there.
But again, I'm just going to put my little piece in there, founding the Heroic Awards,
which is honoring exceptional renderings of independent creators.
And when we're honoring the heroes who are writers, why do we need a Scott Pilgrim 7,
X8, X9, or whatever?
(40:49):
There's so many good stories out there in our world's zeitgeist that we're losing because
we're not pulling them away from the small corners that are our neighborhoods and our
online communities.
We need to pull them into our lives and read more of these amazing ideas that people have.
You know, wake up in the middle of the night sweating with weird dreams and then writing
(41:10):
about it.
We need to experience those with the writers and doing Pilgrim again, fine, but I'm not
going to watch it.
I'm not going to watch Scott Pilgrim number three.
I'm going to look for those more indie comics, more indie games, more indie movies that
Halloween time, like you said right now, Halloween time, there's so many great indie horror and
thriller movies.
This just happened with, is it Cato Lake by M. Not Shyamalan's production company?
(41:35):
Oh yeah, that's on HBO, right?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's PG-13.
I like M. Not Shyamalan, but guess what?
He didn't write this piece.
It was some indie creators that popped up a few years ago in Sundance or what have you.
And this movie is absolutely epic.
You know, they could have just gotten Scott Pilgrim number four or they could have done
(41:55):
Cato Lake with a new indie creator.
I just say let's focus on the new people and get some great stories in our world.
Yeah, also the original source material is pretty much covered with this, right?
There's not another 10 books of the series that goes farther.
It's a self-contained story because it is kind of filmed the way it is and it does have
that retro graphic kind of tied everything.
(42:16):
You're right, Chris.
I think it will get more and more retro with time, but I think that's a good thing.
I think it will make this last much longer.
It's also still so new that I hate to even think about a remake for it, but I know there
have been things that have been rebooted and remade a hundred times, but I think that's
because they intended to be series.
I don't think this did.
I think this is a one and done and I think it's fine on its own.
So do you think people should go out and find this movie if they haven't seen it before?
(42:36):
If they made it this far through the podcast and swirled on the entire plot, should they
go out and see it?
Yeah, I think it's fun to watch.
And again, like we kind of said, the story is a little thin, but it's fun to watch.
It's a good view.
And especially now that I've watched it again with a more open mind, I would definitely
recommend if you haven't seen this, given this at least a shot as a fun afternoon movie.
It's not going to change your life, but it's a good watch.
(42:58):
I definitely give it a seven out of 10.
It doesn't rank higher, but because of all the things we mentioned in the show, the effects,
the one liners, the cinematography, the music, the new age looking at how to do movies with
this cartoon elements involved in the movie, I just think it's a solid seven and that means
you watch it.
Yeah.
(43:19):
I think people should go look for this movie.
I think you enjoy sort of witty humor.
You enjoy video games.
You enjoy just light fun.
It's not a bad watch.
So in closing, how would you rate this movie?
I would give this the the like lifting emoji thumbs up that comes up across things, but
then it explodes into a bunch of coins.
I do think this is a thumbs up though.
This is a well worth seeing.
(43:39):
It's unique.
There's not much else like it.
Yeah, Roger and Invert would give it two thumbs up.
I think definitely could have ended with knives.
I think we could have done a spinoff where they got together in the end and it might
have been an eight.
In my world, she was the best character, the best actress, the best.
I mean, it was she was awesome.
(43:59):
She owned the screen.
You guys remember back when John Wayne was on and he'd walk onto the screen for the first
scene he was on there and he was he was the movie.
He was the screen at that point.
That's what knives, her character was so well done.
That's what she did when she comes on.
And even in the manga, when you go back and read the manga and she's watching the band
perform, her eyes turn into stars and it's like super big, like the manga style.
(44:22):
It's just so endearing.
She kind of owns the screen.
And Scott never does that.
If you watch, he never really owns the screen.
It's not really about him.
It's about what's happening to him or what's happening around him.
So two thumbs up, seven out of 10.
I wish they would have got back with knives at the end.
One thing I forgot to mention about knives, the actress that played the reason why she
(44:43):
was chosen was because she knew Taekwondo.
So with that last fighting scene, that's all her.
And she knew had to do that long before she took the role.
For me, though, I'd say thumbs up with a fistful of quarters.
It's a good movie.
It's worth watching again.
I'll probably watch again with my kid shortly.
It's fun.
It's not serious, but it's enjoyable at the end of the day.
(45:03):
So Jeremy, I do have one mailbag, Jeremy, for you before we head on out.
Oh, man, a mailbag.
Yeah.
Well, actually, this is a review that I found on Apple.
I don't think I like this then.
If it's for me, that means it's bad news.
Well, it's not for you, particularly for us.
These hosts are a blast.
They discuss pacing, casting, generally walk through each movie while providing humor.
It feels like I'm listening to it in a conversation with friends.
(45:24):
This should be a staple for any comic book or movie lover like look forward to more five
stars.
Oh, OK.
Well, that's good.
I was expecting something like that mumbly fat guy needs to get off there.
So that's cool.
I'm much better about that.
Well, you missed last week's episode where we talked about talking about how a great
Laurie's voice cut through the traffic noise, but yours did not.
(45:45):
Oh, that's good.
I'll take it.
So in closing, Rick, again, thanks for joining us for this evening to talk about Scott Pilgrim
versus the world.
But where can people find you?
I'm all on Facebook.
That's the best place for sure.
You can find the indie fighting game that I'm my characters that I wrote in my comic
book that they're inside the video game called Vigilante Combat on Kickstarter here on Halloween.
(46:07):
It goes live.
That game is so premium.
Even though it has an indie fighting game title, indie game, it's absolutely pro.
You have to check out the trailers for it.
I can't I can't praise it enough.
Fifteen thumbs up for that one for sure.
But also in the spring coming up, we have heroic awards season two.
(46:27):
We just had season one that ended here back in the spring at C2E2 where we had our launch
for our first annual.
We had several hundred entrances.
We had a hundred plus judges.
We are a legit Indie Comics award ceremony and watch for that again also on Facebook.
You can find me at heroic awards and Vigilante Combat and Zuckerberg is getting all the money.
(46:49):
I guess that's how it goes.
And we'll make sure all those links are available in the show notes as well as on our website
as well.
There's a platform, there's a guest tab on movie-smash.com.
So go check take a look at all those there.
And Jeremy, where can people find you?
Well, as always, you can find me at Retrovania.net.
We do a podcast five times a month on retro video games.
So this made a lot of sense.
And for subtastics.bandcamp.com for all new subtastics recordings.
(47:12):
We're going back to the studio this this winter.
So look forward to some new tracks.
And of course here every two weeks more or less.
This is really your biography we've been watching for the show today.
So for me, you can always find me on off panel creations.
We're always building some piece of nerdy furniture over there.
I want to thank our listeners for spending some time with us.
If you have any thoughts on Scott Pilgrim vs. the World and how they need to make into
(47:32):
a trilogy or how I just don't understand this movie at all.
Send us a note over movie-smash.com and we'll see you in a couple weeks.
Thank you again for listening and I hope you enjoy the show.
This has been Movie Smash with Chris Roberts, Jeremy Parmentier and Fergal Amayo produced
by me, Chris Roberts, executive produced by Off Panel Creations, LLC.
(47:54):
Movie clips provided by their respective studios.
You can rate and review the show at Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
You might even find your review read on a future episode.
Got a question for us?
Visit us at movie-smash.com and send us a note.
It too can be read on a future episode.
If you haven't already, please subscribe to Movie Smash wherever you listen to your
podcasts.
(48:14):
But no, actually, I'm very simple.
This song is about how much I don't like bacon.
Okay everybody, it's Michael E. Cullen II.
(00:02):
And I'm Sesame and Carter from the All Too Real 2 podcast.
We're passionate about movies, TV, and pretty much all things pop culture.
Dive into the chaos of failed sitcoms,
direct-to-video sequels, and the quirky realms of cinema and TV.
Join us every Thursday for your dose of All Too Real 2 entertainment.
We'll guide you through debates like whether Howard the Duck qualifies as a superhero.
(00:26):
Ponder if Larry the Cable Guy could be the new Rock or Schwarzenegger.
Discover if some shows and movies should have stayed in the cutting room.
Ever heard of a sitcom featuring that dictator with the funny mustache?
Well, we watched it.
We're dedicated to unraveling the peculiarities of pop culture, sometimes with awesome guests.
So, if you're into the eccentric world of pop culture,
(00:48):
listen and subscribe to All Too Real 2,
available wherever you find podcasts,
and on the age of radio.
In a movie, certainly, in real life it's much sadder.
And it gets plus three heart, plus the two balls.
And I did have to put in my notes,
ask Jeremy if this is what a battle of the bands actually is.
(01:10):
That was the clincher!
But no, actually I'm very simple to solve this matter, which I don't like big.
Hello and welcome to Movie
Smash!
Hello and welcome to Movie Smash,
(01:31):
the show where we dive headfirst into the comic book movies outside the MCU.
If you're new to the show, thanks for joining us.
If you've been here before, you know the drill.
Each episode we're going to smash through a movie whose source material is from a graphic novel or a comic.
Is it worth revisiting?
Should it be forgotten?
Let's find out.
This is Movie Smash.
I'm one of your hosts, Chris Roberts.
I'm the founder of Off Panel Creations.
With me today, I have Jeremy Parmentier.
(01:53):
Hi, this is Jeremy Parmentier of the Retrovaniacs Podcast and also the band Subtastics.
I'm dangerously close to being Scott Pilgrim.
I think you are the perfect host to join us for this one, Jeremy.
And our guest host this evening is Rick Dury.
Hey guys, glad to be here.
Founder of the Heroic Awards and also launching Kickstarter Halloween Night,
Vigilante Combat.
(02:13):
We'll talk about it later.
It's an awesome indie fighting game.
And our movie this evening is 2010 Scott Pilgrim vs. The World,
starring Michael Cera, Mary Winstead and Kareen Kulick, directed by Edgar Wright.
Come to this battle of the bands thing.
You have a band.
Yeah, we're terrible.
(02:38):
Mr. Pilgrim!
I'm Ramona's first evil ex-boyfriend.
What?
Wait, we're fighting over Ramona?
Didn't you get my email explaining the situation?
I skimmed it.
Scott Pilgrim!
The pair to feel the wrath of the League of Evil Exes.
(03:00):
Ramona dated twins.
If you want something bad, you have to fight for it.
Step up your game, Scott.
So before we jump into this movie, Sir Rich, why did you pick this movie for us?
You know, there's a whole bunch of comic books turned into movies, what have you.
But I have got to bust the balls of all my fellow local comic shop guys here.
(03:22):
And I got to say, I love the manga comic duplex of what you're getting with Scott Pilgrim.
I love how it has this kind of manga art, this kind of like, I don't know, foreign-ish
feel to the comic.
And then when I watched the movie, they did a pretty good job bringing it to the screen.
So I had to talk about it.
A lot of my comic guys, they're like hardcore into the traditional American comics.
(03:44):
But I go both ways, if you know what I'm talking about.
Yeah, I find people either love or hate this movie coming from the comic book world.
Yeah.
So were any of you familiar with the original source material?
I had not read it.
I knew it was a, you know, like I thought it was a comic, but it's trade, you know,
a bunch of trades.
I had not read it though.
Before this came out, everyone kind of said, oh, you know, I read these, you'll love this
movie.
It's going to be amazing when it comes out.
(04:05):
So I knew it was based on a manga, but I did not actually read it at the time.
Yeah, I had read it.
I'd read the first couple of volumes and it goes through all six because it got a little
bit, you know, I don't know.
I don't know.
I want to say kiddish, but teen, a little bit too teen for me.
But that's again, it falls right into the manga genre in that regard.
So slice of life, fun, quirky.
(04:26):
Yeah.
Me, I had never read this.
That seems to be a common thread with these movies lately.
But I think it's this good refresher for us because we've just come off of doing
Cemetery Man and the, what was the one before that one?
Oh, Old Boy.
So I think this is a good refresher movie compared to the past ones we've been
having.
So I'm assuming this was not your guys first viewing of this movie.
Well, yeah, I'd seen it maybe three times.
(04:48):
It was recommended to me.
It was new.
I didn't see it in the theater, but I saw it when it was out on DVD, I guess,
afterwards.
The problem I had when I saw the first time was everyone was telling me how great
it was and how much I would enjoy it.
And unfortunately, that means I'm probably not going to like something, not
because I don't want to like things people tell me to like, but you build it
up too much.
If you say, hey, this movie is amazing.
You got to see it.
And then you watch it, you're like, it's not what I expected.
(05:08):
You made it sound like it was going to be something I would love.
And instead, I just kind of enjoyed it.
The same thing happened to me with the movie Hot Rod.
First time someone was going to see Hot Rod, I was like, yeah, I think I'll like
it.
They're like, oh, yeah, it's totally your kind of humor.
And I watched it.
And I left thinking, this was the dumbest movie I've ever watched.
Yeah, there were some funny parts, but I didn't enjoy it.
However, that movie I've watched over and over again since, and it's funnier
(05:29):
every time there's some new little thing I pick out.
I'm like, this is actually right up my alley.
So I tried to rewatch this this time with a more open mind, not think of it as
someone telling me that I'd love it, but try to come at it again and pretend it
was the first time I've seen it.
Well, if this is your first time joining us, just a heads up, we're going to be
discussing the plot of this movie and may discuss several elements that you
might consider spoilers, so consider yourself warned.
(05:50):
So Rick, why don't you do us a favor and just walk us through the plot of this
movie?
Yeah, well, you got it right.
Scott Pilgrim, post high school, kind of a slacker from Toronto, had that
international vibe.
He plays bass in a local garage band, so I'm a huge fan of that.
He's dating random chicks and just like passing the time.
(06:11):
It's cool, I guess, but at 23, dating a high schooler still, it's a little bit
lame, I guess.
But the main plot kicks off when he has this vision, you know, total dream
sequence where he has this chick going by in her roller blades.
And I guess that's his next to be ex-girlfriend.
I don't know, she's kind of a dud, in my opinion, not to spoil that one, but I
(06:34):
kind of spoiled it.
Ramona Flowers, but he falls in love with her at first sight, obviously.
And to get her, he has to defeat seven evil exes, video game style and all the
different comic bang zip, I can't write in the kisser kind of effects.
It's fun, it's different, slice of life meets video game battles.
So, Jeremy, does it sound like your early 20s?
(06:56):
Well, that's the thing.
That's, I think, why everyone's like, oh, you love this.
And I think it hits way too close to home.
Like, if I can take a step back and enjoy it for what it is and enjoy the way it's
filmed, like the comic and video game throughout the movie, just the angles of
everything, like it looks very good.
But when I watched it as, hey, man, this is kind of like about you, that's where I
did not enjoy it because I don't really like Scott.
(07:18):
I don't think Scott is supposed to be likable at first.
I think it is a coming of age story, so it's also a story of him kind of maturing
throughout the movie to some level.
But at first, you know, if that's what you thought of me at the time, I am no
longer excited about seeing this movie.
Why do we start with Scott then?
Scott was somewhat relatable.
I felt like he was interesting enough.
(07:40):
He wasn't too shallow and you couldn't put your own brand, your own hat on him.
He was his own person, which was cool.
It wasn't some traditional manga, you know, black haired, anybody can be this
character through your body and the art and you're there.
It wasn't like that.
But also pretty shallow, shallow character besides all else.
(08:01):
Yeah, he's 23.
He's playing bass in a band.
He's dating a girl who happens to be 17.
He's really into video games.
His friends kind of just hang out all day and do practice.
I mean, that's literally what I was doing at age 22, 23.
I thankfully was not doing a 17 year old, but an 18 year old that might as well have
been 17 for a very short window of time.
And even at the time, I was like, man, this is way too way too skeevy and weird.
(08:24):
So it just made me feel like I don't enjoy this, Scott.
But maybe that's entirely a reflection on why I didn't enjoy myself at that age.
And perhaps I should talk about that in therapy.
But I think in general, though, everybody else in the movie, I actually did like,
like I like most of his friends.
I like his roommate.
I thought all those people were really like more interesting than Scott.
Scott seems like kind of like a piece of paper that everyone else is writing to as
(08:48):
opposed to being his own character, really.
I like what you said now about the roommate, the other characters.
They all are pretty unique.
They stand out even with a one or two liner.
You can kind of get their personality pretty quick.
The writing, I think, is top notch.
It's really unique.
But I think you hit it right on, Jeremy.
You definitely are having an out of body experience here back to your 20s with Scotty Pilgrim.
(09:11):
He is very sort of two dimensional, as you put it.
But it's interesting you guys relate back to manga because a manga character typically
is my daughter's related to manga where the character is overpowered typically, the main
character.
And Scott feels kind of weasely until the fights begin.
He seems very sort of underpowered as sort of the guy in the corner.
And then all of a sudden, the video game as scenes start occurring.
(09:34):
And that's what his powers come out.
Now, you mentioned his girlfriend or first girlfriend, Knives.
How do you feel about her character and her arc over the story?
Because it does change Drassy from where she begins.
Yeah, yeah, Knives is sweet.
She's my absolute favorite character.
I would date her.
I don't care if she's 17.
She is awesome.
She's fun.
She has a lot of emotion, but she's also a big fangirl for the band.
(09:58):
She supports him in all things he does.
I mean, she's a perfect girlfriend.
What the heck is Scott ruining this?
I don't know.
I get it.
She's a perfect girlfriend.
But at the same time, she's too into like, oh, she thinks Scott's band is the coolest.
She thinks all that Scott's amazing and incredible.
It's almost overwhelming and it's like there's no challenge, I guess.
Not that that makes I'm not making it.
You know, that's not how I think about it.
(10:19):
I'm just saying that's kind of the thought.
But the other thing is and you mentioned this about Ramona.
We're going to talk about his new girlfriend, I guess, like the plot of the story.
You said she's kind of a dud.
Now, I didn't read the manga this is based on.
Do you think that both in the manga and the movie, the character is kind of a dud?
Or you just think like this portrayal of the character from the manga is a dud?
Yeah, I think that both in the comic, she didn't really stand out that much.
(10:44):
And she was portrayed really well in the show, not standing out.
I mean, she kind of stood back and watched Scott do things.
She stood back and watched Scott, you know, deal with his drama.
And she was just on the sidelines and then gone, disappeared for three or five days.
And then back again, gone again for three days.
It just didn't seem I don't know.
It's kind of a dud to me.
But what did you think?
(11:04):
Did you love the purple, red, blue, green hair changing?
Or what do you think?
Yeah, I mean, that was kind of right at my alley at that age.
And I in general, I think Marylou is incredible.
So I was it's hard to like get past that.
But I also wasn't sure like in the source material, is she kind of supposed to be
I want to say frumpy, but kind of less stand out than I think this portrayal of the character is.
(11:27):
But, you know, I also think, though, yes, she doesn't have she's she's very aloof.
She does kind of just vanish.
She comes back.
She's very flaky on what's going on.
You know, where are these guys coming from?
She doesn't tell him ahead of time.
You know, oh, yeah, you know, she does say, oh, I have these these ex boyfriends or X7Xs.
You have to fight them.
It's just who they are.
And there are people who are in, you know, the same kind of band circuit that he is in the same
(11:48):
scene that he is one of the like the the main, I guess, bad ex.
And it's OK to kind of spoil these movies.
Right. We're past that point.
Chris is like kind of a person he's already dealing with is like this major industry person
in their area to some level.
Right. So there's all these things she could have said, like, oh, by the way,
now that the cat's out of the bag, this first guy showed up.
There's going to be a bunch more of these.
Here's who they are.
Like, and it eventually does happen.
(12:09):
But it's like she you have to pull teeth to get anything out of her.
And then again, she just kind of flip flops around.
It's kind of also very much like, oh, poor me some of the time, too.
And you're like, I really poor you.
But OK, I mean, so I can see what you're saying with the version of in general with this character.
I just wasn't sure if you meant like this portrayal is bad in the manga.
She wasn't or just generally that's the kind of character she was.
(12:30):
So that's good to know.
Yeah, I kind of see her as being the sort of the polar opposite of knives.
No knives loves everything he's doing, loves his trying to plug herself into his life.
I mean, in a kind of immature way, but she's trying to do she's trying to be
that supportive girlfriend.
And he's pushing her back all the time because I think he knows deep down he should not be
having this relationship.
And the fact that he hasn't even hugged her at this point or kissed her or whatever at this.
(12:54):
No, for part of the relationship.
And then you have Ramona on the other side of it where she's sort of aloof.
She's disconnected.
She, the longest time, doesn't want anything to do with him.
She shuts him down several times.
So because more of a challenge, I think, in his eyes, and she's and he's confusing aloof
with cool.
And even what was the character's name?
The one that worked with the coffee shop had a job everywhere.
(13:16):
That was the character that kept moving around, that kept cursing with her mouth being bleeped
out all the time was saying, don't date her.
Don't go after her.
Now you're going to ruin everything.
And I think it's because of those forces saying to him, don't do this.
That's why he started pursuing her and why he gave up knives, which, except for the age
thing, she was more supportive than any girlfriend he's ever had.
(13:39):
Yeah, I love the, you said bleeping the mouth with the black square box.
You know, all the all the quirky graphics.
It reminded me a little bit of the style.
I know it's not, but the style of the TV movie Speed Racer came out about 20 years ago, had
all that flashy in your eyes, you know, make it go like strobe lights in your eyeballs.
(14:00):
It didn't have that too much extreme, but we're still in that vein where it was psychedelic
enough that like it appeased the emo jimsy coming of age crowd in 2010, but it still
wasn't too much that it distracted you.
You still get through the first three quarters of the movie without it getting a little bit
redundant.
So I love the effects.
It really, it really made the movie.
(14:20):
It made it made it more.
I mean, so far this review, you know, we're saying it's meh, but the effects really made
the movie.
I think it's interesting to stand out and people go back and watch it again because it's
fun to watch.
It's like playing a video game and you enjoy it.
You have to get it right.
It's we'll get the sort of effects later on, but I think it is more flash than substance,
if that makes any sense, because it is.
It's glossy.
(14:41):
It looks pretty, but the stories, you know, it's pretty normal.
There's nothing special about it, but it's a fun watch.
I'd say the story is very simple in that it's about, you know, a guy who's trying to get
this relationship off the ground.
He's has to deal with her exes, right?
So that that's kind of normal within all the actual literal combat against them, right?
That's where it gets into the flash.
That's where it gets into the video game and comic references and all the other way that
(15:04):
they artistically show everything, like the band battles they have in certain parts where
it's Scott and his band Sex by Mom trying to fight against other bands that are, you
know, of her ex-boyfriends or whatever.
And it's literally like almost the siege.
What is CG?
But it's like this big giant like Avatar fight they do through music.
Like that's all great.
That's all really, really good to watch.
It's really fun to watch.
I don't know how well that, you know, if it was as exciting in written form, but that
(15:28):
that's what makes this movie work.
If I can take a step back and ignore the feeling a little sad at myself, if you can get through,
you know, through that first part where you get into the combat and that's where it really
hits like the video game things, the movie takes off and is really interesting take on
all that.
Yeah, it definitely stands out with the battles for sure.
I mean, there's lots of different ways that he ends up beating them in ways you wouldn't
(15:50):
expect the skateboarder battle and the vegan battle.
There's all these weird, you know, cultural twists that they're from the book too.
I mean, it's brought to the screen pretty well.
That's really the smart writing.
If we're going to get to the writing ever in this review, I think it was written really
well in that effect.
I think the dialogue was fine.
(16:11):
The characters mostly were unique and gripping enough, but it was just the overall effect
that one and then that writing of the weird ways to beat the villain.
I think that's what stood out to me.
Now this cast, there are a ton of future stars in this movie.
Which one surprised you the most?
Again, the first time I saw it, these things didn't stand out.
(16:33):
I guess the one I remembered other than Michael Cera was like the big name at the time.
He had done Arrested Development.
So you know, I was like, okay, he's but he's like the star.
This is his movie.
But there's plenty of other people.
Chris Evans is in this.
Aubrey Plaza is in this.
Kieran Culkin is in this.
There's plenty of people who are now like big bigger stars, much larger stars.
So it was neat to see who else was in this.
Like, oh, that's cool.
(16:54):
Oh, that's cool.
Oh, that's cool.
So yeah, I'm going to again, totally give a shaft to all my local comic book shop guys.
I thought Brie Larson did great in this movie.
I think she really stood out in her character.
She wasn't Brie Larson.
She was now the character for the only time of her career, I guess, so far.
(17:15):
I think she did really good.
I'd give her a top notch.
But of course, Knives is my absolute favorite.
But I think Brie did a good job.
I think Chris Evans bad, bad role, my opinion for him.
But you know, who cares?
He got like seven characters and seven cast members who ended up playing comic book characters
over the next three or four years that were in this in this movie.
(17:37):
It was almost like setting the stage for the MCU to come about.
It's weird, again, weird to say Scott Pilgrim was the first MCU movie done.
I said it right here.
Whoever did the casting for this, not to look it up at some time, they had an eye for talent.
They found all these future stars before they were stars.
And of course, Michael Cera.
(17:58):
And I think there were what four people, five people that are in this movie, they're now
playing superheroes or in some sort of MCU project.
It's a little crazy.
You kind of wonder, are there other actors in Hollywood?
Because these people have been in everything at this point.
Speaking of Chris Evans, though, I did like what was when we jump into scenes, there's
that for the who have not watched the movie, every ex-boyfriend, ex-boyfriend, ex that
(18:21):
you have to go through has a different fight scene.
They're all they're all very different.
Chris Evans fight scene.
I think he is the second ex he has to battle.
You know, he's he plays an actor.
So he plays effectively himself, just say actor who likes to skateboard.
And he has a team of people that start the fight for him with Scott Pilgrim.
Those seven people that are fighting are actually his true stunt doubles in every in movies
(18:45):
he had up to that point.
Oh, wow.
Which I think is just hilarious.
Well, you know, they actually did look like and so I thought it was just casting, but
actually it was his real doubles.
Huh?
So he instead of just going find people that look kind of like this hired all the stunt
doubles that do the fighting for him since they're good at fighting to get to that scene.
This is really an important caveat.
(19:05):
To get to where he's fighting all those doubles and he's beating them.
You're like, no way this can happen, except he actually was an ace at DDR.
That was the clincher.
Dance Dance Revolutions.
He was the victor with knives.
That's why he knew how to fight.
And if they had not brought DDR into this, this manga, this comic, this movie, you would
(19:28):
have said, oh, this is just some kind of like OP kind of character.
But in reality, you can train it back to his video game skills.
I love it.
So which of the seven fighting scenes stood out to you the most?
I mean, for me, I already kind of mentioned it.
I think the kind of the next to last big fight, the band battle against the two DJs, the Katanyagi
twins, I guess that were two people that she did before.
(19:49):
So I guess it's five and six at the same time.
That's the one that has like these two like giant dragons that they someone with their
music and meanwhile, sex by mom, like kind of kicks it off and goes crazy.
And all of a sudden they have like this Yeti sort of thing and they fight in front of the
crowd.
It slams in everything.
I don't know, that was one that stood out the most because it was like the most one.
I like the band scenes in general for this.
I think they're they're edited well.
(20:10):
They look like videos, but like a video version of a fun concert, right?
It's not like a crazy music video, but it's also not just three dudes standing there while
they play.
So it it's a good kind of live action, you know, music video sort of thing.
The band sounds good.
I like the music that sex by mom generally puts out.
I mean, it's not something I'm like, oh, that's the best band ever.
But you know, if I think about music I wrote when I was 23, it ties, it ties 100 percent.
(20:32):
So I'm like, yeah, this is good.
They have they have kind of very simple straight down to earth, kind of very punk, rocky sort
of sound.
And so they they basically just like play harder like that's how we're going to get
better to play harder and we're going to use a pedal.
And all of a sudden they just go crazy.
I love it.
Those that that combat scene really stood out for me.
I do like the fact that the step it up to just step on the pedal that just makes the
music that much better.
And I did have put in my notes.
(20:52):
Ask Jeremy if this what a battle the bands actually is in a movie.
Certainly in real life, it's much sadder.
But but you know, it is bands playing against other bands to six of their friends.
And it's a good time.
That that is the band is a really cool aspect to the story.
I love how they have it included in there.
My favorite battle, though, was when the sword pops out of his chest and he gets plus three
(21:18):
heart plus two balls or whatever it is.
I mean, it brought in that gaming aspect again.
But it was a big surprise.
Nobody expected to pull a katana out of his chest.
So it was just the effects and the surprise was to me the best fight scene was that last
one.
Not Gideon.
And I'm not a fan of Ramona.
(21:40):
But the fact that he pulled a katana out of his chest and got level up, that was the school.
I enjoy the Patel scene.
The first fight, the very first fight.
It's actually they built it around like a Bollywood scene.
And I thought that was very clever.
And it felt it was it was the first one because it surprises you that this is where this movie
is going to go.
And that's why I like that.
That's why I found to be one of the better ones is because it had that element of surprise
(22:03):
to it.
I mean, after that, you're expecting it.
Of course, the vegan fight.
I didn't expect it to end that way.
Vegan, vegan fight was so weird that the ending was appropriate.
Yes.
Yep.
Almost like a weird fever dream.
The whole movie is a weird fever dream.
Yeah, but that specifically like the other ones, they all kind of flow their own with
(22:24):
that combat feel, the video game feel.
That other one is kind of like what?
But it still works because it was such a weird fight.
Well, because it ties into the writing, Rick, like you were saying, is because he has super
powers, the vegan, because he's better than you.
That's it.
Just because he's a vegan, he's better than you.
And he loses power because he eats something that's not vegan.
(22:45):
And that's just it's just clever.
The vegan police show up and arrest him.
I love how he had three strikes of drinking milk or what have you.
And that was so cool because a lot of people who claim vegan just don't even know all the
ins and outs of this Omni vegan, whatever he claims to be.
So it was interesting for many readers, maybe some young girl who wants to be a vegan and
(23:06):
watches this.
Well, maybe it might actually be a little bit more about what she's getting into.
That could be educational too, which is a good ad.
Yeah.
What were his three violations?
One was he had half an F. One was the chicken parm.
And I forgot what the last one was.
He had a gelato gelato because I didn't know that had cream in it.
(23:27):
It was egg.
It had egg in it, which is just hilarious.
What other scenes set out to you guys?
Well, I don't know about scenes, but you want to talk about some of the effects.
We talked about these fights.
I love the first time he has the fight with, I guess, Patel or whatever.
And he does that final move on him.
It looks like a video game finishing move.
Also, he burst into coins like you're playing River City Ransom or whatever.
(23:48):
It's like, oh, two dollars and 10 cents.
What am I going to do?
I can't even get a bus fare with this or whatever.
But I love that kind of stuff.
That references back to games that I was like, oh, I knew exactly what they're aiming at
here.
This is neat.
I get all this.
This is great.
So that I love the first time that happens with the coins and the fact that each boss
he fights explodes into larger piles of coins and it tells him over how much his score and
total like, I guess, total value or whatever would go up if these are total money or total
(24:11):
score doesn't matter.
But the idea is it's there and each one goes up higher and higher and higher.
And the coin explosions more and more offensively large.
It's pretty great.
I do love that effect.
And getting it with seven million points.
Yeah, I just couldn't stop laughing at just how far they went with the gay scene.
Like he's in bed with his roommate whose boyfriend's boyfriend's boyfriend are all there waking
(24:34):
up.
It was just over the top and hilarious.
So that was a cool standout scene.
There are also a lot of video game references in this movie.
Did anyone any catch your eye?
Well, like the band names, the other bands when there was Clash of Demonhead, that's
a great NES game.
In fact, his band itself, Sex Bomb-omb, the bomb-omb is from the Mario games.
Like all this stuff ties in with that kind of culture, the video game culture.
(24:57):
Again, it all it all screams me at twenty three, which is why this was a hard watch
the first time.
But now I've come to appreciate a little more watching it, trying to step back.
Maybe it's just I'm older now.
So I feel like a little less connected than I did then.
I really like the Zelda NES sound effects.
There was a couple of different Zelda game musics in there, not just from Zelda one,
(25:17):
but the one from Super Nintendo.
And I don't know, I just really liked the sound effects dating back to the games.
And I really don't remember a time before Scott Pilgrim where 80s and 90s video game
sound effects were in mainstream movies.
But since then, there's been a whole handful of them that have used old pixel like eight
(25:38):
bit sound.
But this this really was a trend center for me.
Unless I'm missing something from 2002 or whatever.
I think you're right.
I think that you have Ready Player One, you have the Pixel movie.
Yeah.
And they actually had to go and get the rights that those that's those Zelda sound effects
because Nintendo will sue you.
Yeah, I was going to say that's not a surprise.
Nintendo is not afraid to take a lawsuit.
(25:58):
The music really, really did well.
And now it's like told mainstream to have music.
In fact, indie video games, vigilante combat, indie video games are using this old eight
bit music.
And when they go to steam, you can go on steam and get some indie games, pick pick any of
them and they'll have really interesting beep bop boop type music.
(26:21):
And it just throws you back in time.
So this movie runs just shy of two hours.
Does it feel like two hours?
Yeah, it's a little bit long.
And I think you got a little redundant.
That's my opinion.
I think everybody got who is ripped to the end.
It does take a little while even to get to those first fights.
And then it does get a little repetitive.
But each fight is different enough that it stood out.
(26:42):
I don't think it felt like two hours.
I don't think it flew by by any means.
But it didn't feel like when I saw it was a two hour running time, I was like, oh boy.
But I didn't get I didn't have to stop this in the middle and do something else or take
a break and come back.
I watched this entirely in one sitting actually this morning so I can get a good reminder
on it.
And I did not think it was two hours by the time it did.
But it does have some slow moments.
(27:03):
And if you're not if you don't enjoy the combat, if you don't kind of like the cycle that the
game that this movie starts, I call it a game because it feels that way.
The cycle of movie starts, you might get bored with it about midway till you get to kind
of those last two fights again.
Time wise, I think I didn't check the clock till about an hour and 45.
And I was surprised when I had a few minutes left of the movie.
It was fine.
Length.
(27:23):
I don't think that's really an issue as much as if you can enjoy the ending because of
the path.
But the ending was worth it.
And when we got to the very end and he chooses Ramona, fine, that's a happy ending, I guess.
But she's just going to be another X.
But I mean, what if Goody got back with Knives?
That would have been the best.
(27:46):
You really are leading on a whole Knives thing.
So let's talk about the ending.
He goes through all these fights.
He defeats all the X's and Ramona is like, I'll see you later.
And she decides to start leaving.
And Knives is the one who actually pushes him to follow her.
Did you find that to be a satisfying ending?
I didn't.
The first time I watched it, I kind of thought it was an ending.
(28:07):
Like, I don't know, not a good or bad.
It was like, why would that even be the ending?
But this time I watched it because, again, I tried to keep a more open mind on it.
You do have during that last fight, Scott kind of learns self-respect and some kind
of self-worth.
So the idea at the end is that she's going to go away and start again.
She wants to, she's like, I didn't get my new life.
So we're going to, I'm going to try again.
And so it was him kind of getting that, that amount of self-worth to say, Hey, I'm going
(28:28):
to, I am going to follow you.
I'm going to say, I will follow you through this new life as opposed to, okay, I guess
I'll just stay here then and hang out with Knives or whoever it is that I'm going to
run into because you don't want to be here.
Right.
It's actually having some self-worth to say, wait, I could be that new start.
So I didn't hate it this time, but the first time I saw it, I was kind of like, that's
a non-ending.
That's just like a thing.
And then, and then the movie ends.
So this time I felt a little better about it, but I also maybe tried a little too hard
(28:50):
to find some meaning into it.
So
You got it right, there was, there was an attempt at meaning and such and, you know,
growing up and learning from yourself.
It was hard to see when he was confessing his cheating on each other, on both girls.
I mean, that was, that wasn't your face morals, which was great.
I loved seeing that a little bit was, it pulled at you a little bit, but then the girl, Lamona
(29:15):
just leaves him again for the fifth time in the movie and he's still chasing after her.
I mean, come on.
He didn't get enough balls plus two from his katana sword.
Yeah, that was not the life lesson he learned.
The life lesson was don't cheat on your girlfriend, no matter how many you have.
Now, this movie leans heavily on special effects.
(29:36):
Do you think they've, they stood up over the past decade?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It was because it was like animation slash video game effects.
It wasn't, you know, you weren't trying to do Jurassic Park dinosaurs here.
You were trying, or Avatar.
You weren't doing that.
It was, it was gamey fun.
I don't think it's ever going to really go out.
I think 20 years from now we're still going to look back and it's going to be the same,
(29:59):
you know, fun video gamey concept that it was 20 years ago.
Yeah, I also just the way it's shot, the way it's styled, there's a lot of imagery that's
supposed to kind of look like a comic panel or like a specific scene that they're really
trying to get this emotion out of.
Like the, even like there's a section where Scott and Rona go stand, you know, go to like
these swings and you see their footprints up to the swings and later on they revisit it
(30:19):
when he's by himself and it's just his footprints up to the swings and you just see that.
Like there's a lot of angles and there's the way it's shot where it's kind of shiny that
even though those effects are kind of outlandish, they work.
It doesn't, it's not like it's a completely serious movie with these CG effect dragons
that come in at any point.
It looks like a shiny video game.
So having these effects, I think will hold stand up because the whole movie feels that
(30:40):
way.
Two things are the effects for me.
One, I liked the intro where it's showing their ages and their names.
It made it feel very much like I'm reading some sort of comic panel where they're giving
me the extra information I need to know without just saying to me the information they need
to know.
But I think you're right because this movie leans heavily on retro video game styles that
I think as it ages, the fact that they use retro style graphics on sort of the special
(31:04):
effects, they've had that feel.
It's going to feel more and more retro as it goes along and that is not a hindrance
to it.
I think it plays more into sort of what they were going for.
Yeah, I think Jeremy got it right with the angles, the cinematography.
If I were to critique it, I would say high marks on that.
Much better than I expected from this kind of like straight to VHS style of a thing.
(31:25):
Not to be rude or anything, but it just wasn't blockbuster-y even though the cast was amazing.
I thought it did well.
The cinematography was really good.
Would I say that this is something I'm going to watch again?
Well, I've watched it three times, so I'm sure I'll say, you know what?
Put on the fun video game movie again.
I might do that in 10 years.
My kids liked it.
They watched it with me.
(31:46):
They thought it was cool.
Again, I went right back to the manga again just to check it out real fast and it just
follows it really close.
I think they did a good job.
Anytime you follow the book really close, you're much more likely to hit a home run
than not, in my opinion.
Good on them for doing that.
I think they used the special effects for sort of good small details too.
One in particular said to me for whatever reason, when she delivers the Amazon package
(32:10):
and she's skating away, the snow is clearing for her as she's going.
I mean, someone spent the time to think about that, like how do we make this work to give
an idea that there's snow there, but like I said, it parts for her like parting in the
Red Sea.
It's a little detail, but those are the things I appreciate the most.
So I think this movie's got a lot of different themes in it.
We sort of touched on Scott's arc.
I mean, Scott's arc is the bulk of this movie.
(32:32):
It's him getting past, and I thought this was a negative at first, but now that I, you
know, on the second view, I think that's kind of what he gets out of is kind of the gamifying
of life and the relationship and everything else.
It's not just like, oh, I met this girl and we have a lot in common and I want to start
a life with her.
It was like, oh, this girl is beautiful.
I have to date this girl.
And you know, now it's not just a date or buy have to beat her exes.
(32:54):
I have to actually go up, you know, level up each time with her.
Right.
So this it's this kind of weird, almost like a quest for love that isn't necessarily love.
It's like a lust quest.
I don't know.
It's kind of the growing out of that is what happens throughout the movie with him kind
of getting that self-respect towards the end.
That's all there.
And it's definitely like with the video game reference, everything else, it's not just
subtle.
(33:15):
It's like in your face like, oh, you know, this is gamifying your relationship and life
in general.
Right.
Trying to get a band with a bigger and bigger location, get a bigger and bigger audience.
It's leveling everything up, getting better points, getting better, whatever.
Right.
It's it's kind of the the over feeling, the feeling of the whole movie.
Really?
It was a it was a bit isekai in that regard.
You're totally right.
Like living in a video game and leveling up, it's exactly what it was.
(33:39):
And if we look at it from that perspective, if you guys have read many manga or seen much
anime, the plots sometimes can be the best ever, like Death Note or what have you.
But some of the plots are just silly slice of life genre.
And this this manga comic tries really hard to be slice of life meets isekai and be surprising.
(34:03):
But it can't leave the slice of it just doesn't leave it.
So more of the story.
I don't know.
Go up earlier.
Date again.
Maybe and have fun.
Yeah.
I drew the whole gamification of it.
That is does feel like he's going through his levels.
But I think he wants that further.
(34:24):
Ramona is the princess that is in the other castle.
The princess in those older games are very two dimensional.
They're not they're just the prize you're going for.
And I think that's the way his life is going.
So he gets self respect, though he gets confidence, though he realizes he's he's not necessarily
the good guy in the story as he's going along.
But I don't think he fully learns the lesson of what he's going after.
(34:45):
I think if he had stayed with knives, that would be the decision.
That means he's fully come around and learn those things, except for the age problem.
Maybe but I think the other arc of this is that Ramona thinks she's having a new start
in life, right?
She thinks she's escaping, dating a bunch of guys who are treating life like a level
up like you're in a video game, whatever.
And so every time she finds out one more thing about Scott that is much like what she was
(35:05):
in.
Oh, you're in a band, of course.
Of course, you're in.
All right.
Yeah.
Mm hmm.
Like it's like, oh, I didn't escape at all.
And so the ending being where she's like going to try to go out and try again.
And Scott is no longer in a band.
He's no longer in Sex by Mom.
They've replaced him with somebody else because he refused this contract or whatever.
And he's become more grown up, become his own person more than he was at the start of
the movie.
(35:26):
So it's kind of like a start for both of them.
Sure, they might have met in the the previous cycle she was stuck in, but perhaps together
they can break those cycles.
I love what you just said about Sex by Mom.
One, two, three, four, we're Sex by Mom.
We're here to make money and sell out and stuff.
I mean, it was just it was such good writing.
It was so hilarious.
There's little quips like that that stand out to me that make this movie worth watching
again, because it's written so so off the cup, youthful and fun and modern.
So I think it's a great movie.
I think it's a great movie.
I think it's a great movie.
I think it's a great movie.
I think it's a great movie.
(35:46):
I think it's a great movie.
I think it's a great movie.
I think it's a great movie.
I think it's a great movie.
So I love that part of it.
I love what you also said.
And listen here, the princess is a 2D character.
Ramona definitely fits that.
(36:07):
Maybe they tried to make her only 2D so she could be like the princess in the castle.
Because you got that right on, Chris.
You must have studied up for this thing or something.
You must have prepared for this podcast because you knew what to say right there.
Now one article I did actually read, not about the princess thing, but they said that all
the X's, including Scott himself, represented the different seven deadly sins.
(36:29):
I want to get your take on that.
They say Matthew Patel was wrath, that anger he had at the very beginning.
Lucas Lee was pride.
Natalie was envy.
And what was it called?
I'm looking at my list here.
There's the twins though.
Yeah, there's the twins.
We're envy.
Todd was gluttony.
Roxy was lust.
Gideon was greed.
(36:50):
And Scott himself was sloth.
When you explain it, I can see it, but I wouldn't pick that up.
I totally love that subtle Easter egg you just gave us.
I'm going to look back on it a different way now, but totally not picking it up during
the movie at all.
It's one of those things where I'm wondering if the analogy is forced onto the movie or
the actual writers thought of that while they were creating it.
(37:13):
Well, you know, I wrote a comic book.
I'm at my third or fourth issue.
I don't know how far I am right now, but I put things in my book that I can see when
I read it, but I don't think anyone's going to see them.
Maybe this is one of those things where the writer is a little bit vain, where it's about
they want to put it in, but they do it in a way that no one knows just because on accident,
(37:35):
because it's too inward looking.
Maybe that's what it is.
I don't know.
I think the other thing can happen, and I've had this happen with songs.
I've written songs that have a meaning to me, but I intentionally leave it vague, and
then people read into what they think it means.
I hear later on like, oh, I thought that song was about this.
No.
I mean, yes, I can see why you thought that, and that's cool that you would have interpreted
what I said that way.
But no, actually, I'm very simple.
(37:56):
The song is about how much I don't like bacon or whatever the topic is.
I'm like, oh, is this about the fall of communism?
No, not at all.
It's not at all.
It's about the thrift store.
I don't know how you read that, but I've had that happen, so maybe it's a similar thing.
You put all these things, and maybe it was subconscious to have those kind of seven.
Because the seven deadly sins aren't unique.
It's a very much pick out bad facets of humanity and name them, right?
(38:19):
So it's pretty easy to be like, oh, yeah, I'll just kind of have each person be bad,
and maybe you subconsciously made them the seven deadly sins.
So pretty neat.
Could you see this as the spinoff of the movie set, or which one would you say came first?
Oh, yeah, seven's later.
That's what Scott Pilgrim grows up.
He comes a detective.
It all goes on from there.
Wow, this got so dark just now.
Happy Halloween.
(38:39):
Scott's off solving murders in a city where it is always raining.
His wife gets her head chopped off and put in a box.
Maybe that's Ramona's head for all we know.
That's Ramona.
Now I like the movie.
I think this is a good movie.
This is a really top notch movie.
I see it now.
Game pieces are coming together.
So guys, what did you love about this movie, and what could they have done better?
(39:01):
I mean, I love the cinematography.
I love the band's aspects.
I think the effects are cool.
The story itself, as you mentioned, a little flat if you just drove it out.
Here's the arc we're going with.
It's pretty simple, but I don't know if I necessarily would change that.
I don't know how you can build that out without making it a completely different thing.
I like how they didn't shy away from the kissing and the romance side.
(39:23):
A lot of the youthful mangas shy away from it.
They tease it really strong, but then they don't really go there.
I think they went, the manga, both the comic and the movie went there a little bit just
enough for this age period that we're shooting for here of the teenage angst period.
So I'm glad they didn't shy away from that.
Otherwise, it would have been a little bit too cheesy.
Best part of the movies.
Did I mention there was a katana that he pulled out of his chest?
(39:46):
Yes.
Because that was really cool.
Didn't he also get a katana put through his chest at one point before he uses one up?
Yeah.
And then he got a second katana.
I mean, three katanas really in his chest.
So trifecta.
It's a very katana heavy movie.
At least the end.
So for me, I love the video game aspects of it.
I think it could have used more katanas.
(40:08):
It only had three.
We need at least a dozen to make it really work.
In all seriousness, it's a fun movie.
It was enjoyable.
It's a little slower in parts, but in general, I have no big problems with the movie.
Now that it's been over a decade since the movie came out and they've tried doing a TV
show about it, should they remake this movie and bring it back?
No.
Yeah, I agree.
(40:28):
I think.
There's too many good stories out there.
But again, I'm just going to put my little piece in there, founding the Heroic Awards,
which is honoring exceptional renderings of independent creators.
And when we're honoring the heroes who are writers, why do we need a Scott Pilgrim 7,
X8, X9, or whatever?
(40:49):
There's so many good stories out there in our world's zeitgeist that we're losing because
we're not pulling them away from the small corners that are our neighborhoods and our
online communities.
We need to pull them into our lives and read more of these amazing ideas that people have.
You know, wake up in the middle of the night sweating with weird dreams and then writing
(41:10):
about it.
We need to experience those with the writers and doing Pilgrim again, fine, but I'm not
going to watch it.
I'm not going to watch Scott Pilgrim number three.
I'm going to look for those more indie comics, more indie games, more indie movies that
Halloween time, like you said right now, Halloween time, there's so many great indie horror and
thriller movies.
This just happened with, is it Cato Lake by M. Not Shyamalan's production company?
(41:35):
Oh yeah, that's on HBO, right?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's PG-13.
I like M. Not Shyamalan, but guess what?
He didn't write this piece.
It was some indie creators that popped up a few years ago in Sundance or what have you.
And this movie is absolutely epic.
You know, they could have just gotten Scott Pilgrim number four or they could have done
(41:55):
Cato Lake with a new indie creator.
I just say let's focus on the new people and get some great stories in our world.
Yeah, also the original source material is pretty much covered with this, right?
There's not another 10 books of the series that goes farther.
It's a self-contained story because it is kind of filmed the way it is and it does have
that retro graphic kind of tied everything.
(42:16):
You're right, Chris.
I think it will get more and more retro with time, but I think that's a good thing.
I think it will make this last much longer.
It's also still so new that I hate to even think about a remake for it, but I know there
have been things that have been rebooted and remade a hundred times, but I think that's
because they intended to be series.
I don't think this did.
I think this is a one and done and I think it's fine on its own.
So do you think people should go out and find this movie if they haven't seen it before?
(42:36):
If they made it this far through the podcast and swirled on the entire plot, should they
go out and see it?
Yeah, I think it's fun to watch.
And again, like we kind of said, the story is a little thin, but it's fun to watch.
It's a good view.
And especially now that I've watched it again with a more open mind, I would definitely
recommend if you haven't seen this, given this at least a shot as a fun afternoon movie.
It's not going to change your life, but it's a good watch.
(42:58):
I definitely give it a seven out of 10.
It doesn't rank higher, but because of all the things we mentioned in the show, the effects,
the one liners, the cinematography, the music, the new age looking at how to do movies with
this cartoon elements involved in the movie, I just think it's a solid seven and that means
you watch it.
Yeah.
(43:19):
I think people should go look for this movie.
I think you enjoy sort of witty humor.
You enjoy video games.
You enjoy just light fun.
It's not a bad watch.
So in closing, how would you rate this movie?
I would give this the the like lifting emoji thumbs up that comes up across things, but
then it explodes into a bunch of coins.
I do think this is a thumbs up though.
This is a well worth seeing.
(43:39):
It's unique.
There's not much else like it.
Yeah, Roger and Invert would give it two thumbs up.
I think definitely could have ended with knives.
I think we could have done a spinoff where they got together in the end and it might
have been an eight.
In my world, she was the best character, the best actress, the best.
I mean, it was she was awesome.
(43:59):
She owned the screen.
You guys remember back when John Wayne was on and he'd walk onto the screen for the first
scene he was on there and he was he was the movie.
He was the screen at that point.
That's what knives, her character was so well done.
That's what she did when she comes on.
And even in the manga, when you go back and read the manga and she's watching the band
perform, her eyes turn into stars and it's like super big, like the manga style.
(44:22):
It's just so endearing.
She kind of owns the screen.
And Scott never does that.
If you watch, he never really owns the screen.
It's not really about him.
It's about what's happening to him or what's happening around him.
So two thumbs up, seven out of 10.
I wish they would have got back with knives at the end.
One thing I forgot to mention about knives, the actress that played the reason why she
(44:43):
was chosen was because she knew Taekwondo.
So with that last fighting scene, that's all her.
And she knew had to do that long before she took the role.
For me, though, I'd say thumbs up with a fistful of quarters.
It's a good movie.
It's worth watching again.
I'll probably watch again with my kid shortly.
It's fun.
It's not serious, but it's enjoyable at the end of the day.
(45:03):
So Jeremy, I do have one mailbag, Jeremy, for you before we head on out.
Oh, man, a mailbag.
Yeah.
Well, actually, this is a review that I found on Apple.
I don't think I like this then.
If it's for me, that means it's bad news.
Well, it's not for you, particularly for us.
These hosts are a blast.
They discuss pacing, casting, generally walk through each movie while providing humor.
It feels like I'm listening to it in a conversation with friends.
(45:24):
This should be a staple for any comic book or movie lover like look forward to more five
stars.
Oh, OK.
Well, that's good.
I was expecting something like that mumbly fat guy needs to get off there.
So that's cool.
I'm much better about that.
Well, you missed last week's episode where we talked about talking about how a great
Laurie's voice cut through the traffic noise, but yours did not.
(45:45):
Oh, that's good.
I'll take it.
So in closing, Rick, again, thanks for joining us for this evening to talk about Scott Pilgrim
versus the world.
But where can people find you?
I'm all on Facebook.
That's the best place for sure.
You can find the indie fighting game that I'm my characters that I wrote in my comic
book that they're inside the video game called Vigilante Combat on Kickstarter here on Halloween.
(46:07):
It goes live.
That game is so premium.
Even though it has an indie fighting game title, indie game, it's absolutely pro.
You have to check out the trailers for it.
I can't I can't praise it enough.
Fifteen thumbs up for that one for sure.
But also in the spring coming up, we have heroic awards season two.
(46:27):
We just had season one that ended here back in the spring at C2E2 where we had our launch
for our first annual.
We had several hundred entrances.
We had a hundred plus judges.
We are a legit Indie Comics award ceremony and watch for that again also on Facebook.
You can find me at heroic awards and Vigilante Combat and Zuckerberg is getting all the money.
(46:49):
I guess that's how it goes.
And we'll make sure all those links are available in the show notes as well as on our website
as well.
There's a platform, there's a guest tab on movie-smash.com.
So go check take a look at all those there.
And Jeremy, where can people find you?
Well, as always, you can find me at Retrovania.net.
We do a podcast five times a month on retro video games.
So this made a lot of sense.
And for subtastics.bandcamp.com for all new subtastics recordings.
(47:12):
We're going back to the studio this this winter.
So look forward to some new tracks.
And of course here every two weeks more or less.
This is really your biography we've been watching for the show today.
So for me, you can always find me on off panel creations.
We're always building some piece of nerdy furniture over there.
I want to thank our listeners for spending some time with us.
If you have any thoughts on Scott Pilgrim vs. the World and how they need to make into
(47:32):
a trilogy or how I just don't understand this movie at all.
Send us a note over movie-smash.com and we'll see you in a couple weeks.
Thank you again for listening and I hope you enjoy the show.
This has been Movie Smash with Chris Roberts, Jeremy Parmentier and Fergal Amayo produced
by me, Chris Roberts, executive produced by Off Panel Creations, LLC.
(47:54):
Movie clips provided by their respective studios.
You can rate and review the show at Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
You might even find your review read on a future episode.
Got a question for us?
Visit us at movie-smash.com and send us a note.
It too can be read on a future episode.
If you haven't already, please subscribe to Movie Smash wherever you listen to your
podcasts.
(48:14):
But no, actually, I'm very simple.
This song is about how much I don't like bacon.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!