August 21, 2023 • 48 mins
What if we told you that a seemingly innocent children's movie could harbor harmful, sexist undertones? That's exactly what we tackle today as we analyze the controversial movie Barbie. We tear apart the movie's 'girls rule, boys suck' narrative, unearthing how this message might negatively impact its youthful demographic. From its lack of substantial story to the awkward dialogue, we expose the damaging messages the movie sends, regardless of the story's last 15-minute attempts to salvage it.
Moving on, we put the character portrayals under the microscope, focusing on how Ken's character contrasts sharply with Barbie's superficial journey. We ask tough questions about the film's objectification of men, especially the shocking portrayal of Ryan Gosling's Ken. The film's PG rating adds another layer to this discussion, raising questions about its target audience and the detrimental messages it could be passing on to impressionable minds.
Finally, we don't shy away from the bigger picture, linking our critique of the Barbie movie to the societal necessity of critical thinking and acceptance. The film seems to suggest that any criticism is equivalent to being anti-feminist, a notion we contest. We also champion the importance of recognizing diverse opinions and values as integral to societal development and empowerment for both men and women.
So, buckle up as we embark on this eye-opening journey, scrutinizing what lies beneath the surface of seemingly harmless entertainment.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey everyone and welcome to Movies Worth Seeing
and today we're taking apartBarbie.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
I know you're excited about this.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
Whenever you question whether or not I love you, I'm
just going to say I watchedBarbie twice and that should be.
That should tell you everything.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
You know that you did it for the good of the people
as well.
You needed to give them areview.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
I didn't want to watch this twice.
I didn't want to watch thisonce.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Well, the story behind watching it twice, for
those of you listening at home.
We were in Rome waiting for ourflight.
It had some hours to kill, sowe went to the cinema but we had
to leave 15 minutes before theending to get to our flight back
to Sydney.
So then we had to go again thisweek to see it for the second
time because we had a hunch thatthe 15 minutes that we missed
(00:54):
had some important points thatwrapped up the movie.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
There was hope that the last 15 minutes saved this
trash, but it didn't.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
It went away to saving it.
When we left, there was no hope.
We left kind of just wheneverything was falling apart.
The kens were losing theirminds, Barbie was crying, there
was a lot happening and we leftand we just thought this movie
is terrible.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
I was wondering when will this movie end, because for
a two hour movie it feels likeit goes the same length as Lord
of the Rings.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
That's just because you weren't enjoying it, do you?
It only went, I think, for anhour and a half.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
I think every scene in this movie should be trimmed
by like five minutes.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Look, I'm not going to lie and the reason I'm on
here is so that we can bringthat feminine balance
perspective.
I know that if you had your wayyou'd just talk trash on it for
40 minutes.
But look, there are somepositive things about the movie
and the ending, I feel, does goaway to try and salvage some of
the damaging messages that itdoes portray, especially given
(02:02):
that children are going to watchthis with a pretty uncritical,
lack of critical thinking eyeand they're going to absorb some
of the messages that are donein tongue and cheek and done
because they're trying to beironic and for children it's
just going to be lost in them.
They're just going to look atthis movie.
They're going to be like girlsrule, boys suck, they suck, and
that's not really feminist.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
Girls rule, boys rule .
That's what I felt.
This movie, with that same toneof little kid on the playground
trying to be like you're a boy,but you have cuties and I'm a
girl, so I'm cool.
That's the same tone that thismovie had throughout the whole
movie.
It was written by a child butyet somehow not written to
(02:47):
appeal to children, because evenchildren are going to be like
this is so boring.
What are they talking about?
Speaker 2 (02:53):
Look, some of the colours were very flashy and fun
.
I used to play with Barbieswhen I was little and seeing
Barbie wake up and be in the funhouse and everything's perfect
and fun there is a part of everylittle girl who's growing up.
Playing with Barbies that kindof is like, yeah, that's cool, I
want to wake up in a sparklybed and I want to go to the
beach all day.
(03:14):
But I think what's kind ofproblematic about this movie is
that everyone's talking about itas if it's it's feminist, but I
still think that it has somevery problematic messages about
women and I guess we can talk alittle bit about this as we get
into it.
But yeah, I think, while it's afun movie to watch and a lot of
you know I know there's adivided audience.
(03:34):
A lot of people are like, yes,this is a great movie, and a lot
of people are like this is aterrible movie.
I think, regardless of whetheryou find it fun, there are still
some problematic things aboutit.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
Yeah, I actually had an idea.
Just spare the moment, let'scall this a top five cringe
lines from Barbie yeah, thiswill be good for like TikTok and
all that crap.
Top five cringe lines ofdialogue from Barbie.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Number five yeah, I'm a man with no power.
Does that make me a woman?
No, that's gotta be number one.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
That has to be number one.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
I can't do the minota .
Speaker 1 (04:10):
Oh, ok.
Number five when the mother istalking to her daughter and she
says, of course the dad doesn'tfeel any anxiety, he, the child,
takes it all out on me.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
They didn't take it out on the dads.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
They never take it out on the dads.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
Whoa, that's saying a lot.
Yeah, I felt that was a bitaggressive.
I think that little line kindof captures how the movie is
really just looking at the worstof current society in men and
the dynamics between men andwomen.
It's not really taking intoaccount any progress that's been
(04:47):
made.
I don't think the reality isthat men are not stressed about
their children and that theirchildren don't complain to them
or create anxiety for them.
So yeah, good one, that's agood cringe moment.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
Because the film needed to attack dads as well,
because dads are men, so we haveto attack dads.
Number four when Ryan Gosling'sKen is talking, when he's
discovered the patriarchy inreality, in the real world,
after they escaped Barbie land,he says to one of the corporate
(05:20):
guys that he applies for a joband he says to him I'm a man,
shouldn't I just have this job?
And then the guy's like no, itdoesn't work that way.
And he's like you guys aredoing a horrible job with the
patriarchy.
And he says we're still doingthe patriarchy, we're just a bit
more subtle about it.
He says something like we're abit more covert or like subtle
(05:41):
about the patriarchy.
Well, yeah, because it's stupid.
Men don't talk like that, it'sjust dumb.
They're trying to say at onepoint the reality of Barbie
world is made out to be amatriarchy.
When we go to the real worldthey exaggerate the fuck out of
all sexism in the real world tomake it look like it's Barbie
(06:07):
level of of a patriarchy wheremen are completely dominating
women.
And I just don't know what thereal world that they're trying
to present.
I don't know where they'regoing with it, because it
doesn't feel like reality,because there's no subtlety in
any way.
None of the men talk like that.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
I think that line for me obviously is trying to point
to the fact that people in thisreality can't get away with
just blatantly being a sexistanymore, especially in
corporations.
But that character is justcheekily saying, hey, like we're
still doing it, we're justdoing it in a way that no one
can really see it.
It is confusing because we justsaw a scene where it is really
(06:50):
obvious and then we just saw ascene.
There's a scene later whereMattel is saying we hired a
woman 50 years ago and we hadanother woman a couple of years
ago.
So don't say that we don't hirewomen, but it's like a
boardroom for these men, sothey're not actually doing it
that well.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
I looked up the CEO, the board of Mattel, and there's
five women and six men on theboard and the CEO for like 30
years, was Ruth, the creator ofBarbie.
So what the hell are theytrying to achieve?
They're criticizing Mattel, butMattel is part of this movie,
(07:28):
so I don't understand what thepoint was of that.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
Mattel is the winner of this movie.
This is such a clear productplacement movie that's trying to
redefine the narrative ofBarbie because, let's face it,
there are other dolls now andBarbie was probably becoming a
little bit irrelevant and we'reall progressing and we don't
subscribe to the ideal of womanthat Barbie is representing
anymore and Mattel was probablylike oh no, we have to make
(07:52):
Barbie empowering.
So let's make a movie and geteveryone excited about what
Barbie represents empowerment.
And I think they are thewinners of this because Barbie
stocks probably flying, I meanfrom the profits of the movie, I
guess.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
But as far as their image and the company's look,
you just said that the companyis this sexist, misogynistic
society of a company that youmake out.
The company stole the idea ofRuth, practically imprisoned her
in a little cubby house in theMattel corporation.
(08:31):
She's a slave where she has todrink tea all day and just
conveniently pop out of nowherewhen the story wants her to, and
I'm like she was the CEO for 30years.
So it just doesn't make sense.
Yeah, and will ferrell was not avery stable character number
three could be all of willferrell's lines in the entire
(08:52):
movie.
The line you said, though,where he's like oh my god, I'm
not racist and I'm not sexist,I'm the son of a mother.
I'm a mother of a son.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
Well, that's speaking to that thing of like I'm not
racist but because I have afriend who's this and I have a,
I'm not homophobic because Ihave a gay friend and all of
that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
But for the script to make will ferrell not funny,
that takes a lot of non talent.
It takes a shitload of horribletalent, no non existent talent,
to be able to write a scriptwhere even someone as talented
and funny as will ferrell cannotmake it work.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
There was a funny bit , though, where he's like trying
to catch barbie when she'strying to run out and escape,
and then he's trying to grab him.
He's trying to get to us, sohe's like I'm going to go over
the cubicle, it's much fasterand then he gets caught.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
The part when the barbie movie becomes Scooby Doo,
with people just like trying tocatch barbie.
And barbie can run in highheels or whatever, but men in
suits just fly across the roomand can't reach her.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
And then she can get out of the doors without a card,
but they're like, oh god, wecan't get out without our key
cards, even though they couldhave stepped over the barrier.
I found that really funny aswell.
Maybe I haven't loweredthreshold for you.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
You have a higher threshold for cringe than me.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
Number two.
What do you think number two is?
Speaker 1 (10:26):
Number two maybe the beach off thing.
So every character keeps sayinglike you want to go, bro, you
want to beat you off.
And then they just keep sayingyou want to beat you off, I'll
beat you off.
Well, I'll beat you off at thesame time and you get it.
It's like masturbating.
It's so not funny.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
The high barbie thing got a bit much too.
High barbie, high barbie, highbarbie, high barbie.
I was like, ok, all right,that's enough, that's enough, we
get it.
Everyone's called barbie,everything's uniform.
There's no variety, we get it,it's awesome.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
And then number one cringiest line from barbie is
I'm a man with no power.
Does that make me a woman?
Speaker 2 (11:08):
And I know the part that really annoyed you about
this is that a woman made amovie.
We're living in a world wherewomen have a lot of power and
it's very dismissive of the factthat a woman made this movie
and has influence.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
Before we even sat down for the podcast, you even
said it's offensive to men andwomen.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
Well it is.
Yeah, I know it's trying to befunny.
I know it's trying to beself-aware.
It's trying to say like, haha,in the past, men that don't have
power are just as bad as awoman and that's why the worst
thing can be called is a girl.
But for a little person that'swatching that, they're just
going to hear it.
They're not going to understandthe context of why it's
supposed to be ironic, they'rejust going to go.
(11:46):
What do you mean?
Speaker 1 (11:48):
You know, when you hear something really cringy and
you feel it like knots in yourstomach, like that was just poor
taste.
That's what I felt when I heardthat.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
Oh my gosh, you've missed one of the cringe moments
Honourable mention.
Honourable mention, oh, thatone where I think they're at the
Supreme Court of all the womenand then that lawyer woman is
staying there and she's like I'ma woman, I can hold logic and
judgment, I can hold logic andemotion, and it does not
diminish my power.
That was a cringe moment for me.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
But like those lines.
Yeah, that is a.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
That was a cringe line, it's a good point, but
it's a cringe moment, but allthe Barbies in the movie.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
They just like that and it's just the rider's voice.
It's so obvious.
It's just the rider's voicebeing like.
Because I'm a woman, I can holdemotion and logic, I can
multitask, I am comfortable withmy emotions and blah, blah,
blah and all this crap and it'slike who are you talking to?
Speaker 2 (12:47):
Yeah, I feel like even saying it or trying to make
the point is yeah, of course wecan hold logic and emotion.
I think that we're a little bitpast that and for anyone that
says, oh no, there are stillpeople in the world who don't
have that kind of power or therestill isn't that understanding,
this movie is like a veryheavily Western values based.
(13:08):
Let's not pretend that we'rethis movie representing all the
women in the world, because thereason Barbie is going on this
journey is because she's upsetabout getting cellulite.
So she, she starts this journeybecause she's like I don't want
to have serious thoughts, Ican't be pretty and have serious
thoughts about death and lifeand meaning and I don't want
cellulite and the worst thingthat could happen is being ugly.
(13:30):
So she goes on this journey andthen towards the end, you
realise that she starts cryingbecause she, she doesn't know
where she fits in or she doesn'tthink she's pretty anymore.
And there's this really rousingspeech that's everyone's talking
about as being reallyempowering from the other main
character.
Who does this speech about?
(13:50):
Like all the issues of womenand why it's so hard to be a
woman.
And I'm just like there arewomen in other countries, right,
that would look at that andthey'd just be like is that what
you're upset about?
Really You're upset about thosethings?
Well, we're upset because westill don't have the right to do
anything in our countries.
We still are getting humantrafficked, we don't have any
(14:12):
rights, and so I do think thatin some ways it's yes, it's
depicting the struggles of themodern woman and how there's all
this social pressure right, butsocial pressure and social
expectations is almost like theluxury of being in a free
society for those women, whenthere are other women that are
really still struggling with thebasics, and I just feel like
(14:33):
the Bible movie doesn't reallyacknowledge that at all.
It's just like I'm empoweredbecause I can cry.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
I don't know.
The movie just comes acrosslike a spoiled brat complaining
that they didn't get a toy fromthem, that their mum didn't buy
them a toy.
So they make a whole movie justwhinging about how entitled and
spoiled they are.
The person who wrote thisgreater girl wig.
You directed this.
You wrote this, so what are youwhinging about?
(15:00):
I'm so oppressed that I made ahundred million dollar movie A
billion now.
And made a billion dollars.
Look at how oppressed I am.
She'll probably still winchthat she's oppressed even after
the movie.
I can't take the holy wokeanymore.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
He's upset.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
ladies and gentlemen, I can't take it.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
Was there anything you liked about the movie?
You liked something I know youdid.
You told me.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
Production design in the first 20 minutes looked good
.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
You liked Ryan Gosling.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
Look, ryan Gosling scraped the bottom of the barrel
as far as he made dialogue workdue to his just absolute
commitment.
He's so funny that even thoughI was like listening to the
dialogue and I was like, oh,this is so cringe, he still made
me laugh.
That guy deserves an AcademyAward for making any of this
(15:49):
funny.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
He probably will get one out as well.
He was very good and I have tosay that like watching Ken and
how he was deliberately beingoverlooked like just Ken you
know, I'm just Ken that movedthe song so good, depicting that
.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
Actually that was one good moment, was that song?
Speaker 2 (16:06):
Yeah, that was a catchy song.
I know you've listened to itsince.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
Yeah, I have listened to it.
I do like the song.
It brings up something that ifthis movie just had one simple
character, arc or plot line, ifit was simply just focusing on
Barbie adjusting to being ahuman, something like that, from
going into the real world, andthen Ken's subplot about him
(16:30):
being insecure because he feelslike he needs to be with Barbie
because it's Barbie and Ken,then I could get behind it.
But it just gets into thiswhole.
It just feels like a blender ofall these different rough ideas
of Greta Goh.
We've just been like all right,we hate men.
Matriarchy good, patriarchy,bad.
(16:52):
Men are insecure.
Men are incels.
The Godfather is bad and thismovie is bad and men always want
to show women how to playsports.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
I loved that little one touch.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
It's like she wrote this movie.
I don't know if she has ahusband, but if she has a
husband it feels like I put allmy frustrations with my husband
in this movie, in the script.
That's what it feels like.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
I think something you said earlier was before this
podcast, like after the moviewhen we were chatting was that
there were so many issues thatyou couldn't really fully
explore one or two of them andit probably would have been more
effective to not try to make somany points at once because I
think some of them were lost.
And, yeah, especially for ayounger audience.
(17:39):
I just keep thinking about thatscene.
All the Barbies are trying totake back the power.
At the start, at the end, theirmassive plan to re-empower
women and win back theConstitution is to act dumb and
helpless, to distract the menand pretend to listen to them.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
So patronizing.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Then, once the men feel like they're important,
deliberately turn them againsteach other, using their jealousy
and playing on the insecurity.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
The movie has to explain all of these messages
explicitly.
When they talk about the plane,they say we'll turn them
against each other becausethey're petty and jealous.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
As men are so jealous and insecure that all it takes
is for a woman to listen to aguy play Rob Thomas, and then
they'll get up, go to the otherguy and all the guys will be
like, oh, we're going to go towar now.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
Well, I mean, it really didn't make men or women
look good in that scene, becauseit's basically saying the way
to win is to play yourfemininity against men, play
dumb and then make themdeliberately jealous.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
It's telling little girls to weaponize their own
sexuality in order to turn menagainst each other.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
Because that's true power.
And look, I understand themovie didn't mean that in the
end, because by the time you getto a few scenes down the track,
there's this rousing speech byBarbie about how Ken needs to
find himself and that he's notdefined by all the things he
thinks he's defined as as he can.
A child's attention span isn'tgoing to be able to take in 20
(19:15):
minute scenes that are apartfrom each other and go hang on a
second.
That scene wasn't really sayingthat, because now Barbie's
saying this and actually men andwomen are friends and they both
need to be empowered.
A little child's brain is notgoing to be able to work that
out.
They're just going to rememberthat scene of like oh power, I
know how to be powerful.
I'm going to play my sexualityand weaponize it against the men
(19:38):
, and that's how we win.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
Yeah, they're not going to remember what they
heard, they're going to rememberwhat they see.
And what they saw in that scenewas the women just getting up
moving to other kens and thejealousy that it caused.
And that it was deliberate andthat it was empowering the women
to do that to the men.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
Now I understand in a way the movie's like trying to
show that distraction is a toolused by governments to win votes
.
The media is often usingdistraction tactics to win
constitutional votes and that'swhy, especially in America,
there's so much focus on likegetting everyone to vote,
because if they use distractiontechniques they can actually get
(20:21):
certain demographics of peopleto just not vote or forget to
vote or be somewhere elseconveniently.
I think that it's mentioningthat in a subtle way and also
sometimes I was thinking hang on, is this movie really clever
and actually presenting the kensthe way that women have
traditionally been?
Ken only has a good day ifBarbie looks at him.
(20:43):
How many years has there beenthe kind of narrative that a
woman's worth is based onwhether the men value her?
A girl's happy if the man textsher and if anyone doesn't text
her, she's not happy.
I do wonder if the movie'sflipped its genders on their
head so that we can get thatdiscomfort of feeling for the
(21:03):
kens the way that women havetraditionally kind of been
forced into feeling.
And even myself I'm like maybethat's what the movie was doing,
but it's still damaging.
It's still a damaging message.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
And it still doesn't fix the issues of the blatant,
just patronizing, cringy virtuesignalling when Barbie and Ken
go to the real world.
It still doesn't fix that theyhave the men at the construction
site saying, hey, babe, you'rean object, I want to hold you
(21:37):
against you, so I can feel youand like the other construction
worker, he might as well justyell down I want to have sex
with you.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
There are no children listening.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
It's damaging because young girls could watch this
and be like, oh, that's reality,that's the real world.
So do I stay away fromconstruction sites?
Are men going to ogle me andwant to slap my ass when, in
California of all places, forthem to do that scene, that was
rich.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
Well, look, I think and we've talked about this as
well there is a time where womencouldn't you couldn't as a
woman walk past a constructionsite without expecting a whistle
or a long pause watching you,someone saying something to you.
I can remember even five yearsago, or five to 10 years ago,
you couldn't walk past a groupof men and feel like something's
(22:28):
not going to be said to me.
That's the reality.
I think post-metru and more now, things are a bit different.
I personally now feel like Ican walk comfortably past a
construction site and no one'sgoing to say anything to me,
cause men are scared to death ofwomen now.
So I think that's the issue.
I think like this movie mighthave been like super progressive
(22:48):
five or 10 years ago.
I just think that now it'sclear like women are getting
power.
Women are doing really well andI think there's a lot of
literature to show that in someways women are thriving.
And yes, there's still a longway to go in terms of
institutionalized sexism.
But actually feminism really isabout men and women doing well
(23:11):
and there's a lot, a lot ofpeople that recognize men are
getting hit hard by the lack.
The patriarchy doesn't servemen either, and men are
struggling with mental health.
They are struggling withempowerment.
I actually think today if Kenwas walking down the road in
those clothes, barbie would getaway with it and be fine, and it
(23:31):
would be Ken that wouldactually receive roasted, the
flak for wearing something likethat, walking past construction
workers.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
I personally think what Barbie says in that moment.
In that scene as well, I'msensing undertones of violence.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
Rapey.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
I know, but I just find it stupid.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
You hated it in all those moments where they just
stated the obvious, like I knowthat I'm just a girl, I'm just a
Barbie, so I shouldn't behaving conjectures that are
based on an adjacent reality.
Whatever that sentence is thatshe says.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
Like that, those type of lines How's that targeting
children or appealing tochildren when they talk that way
?
Speaker 2 (24:10):
Well, those bits are for adults and those bits, I
think that magic show don't tellis like a really effective film
technique and this film justlike ignores that and is like
I'm just going to tell you whatI'm trying to say here.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
This movie is just tell everything that everyone is
ever thinking.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
Yeah, and it's like trying to be clever, but the
clever part would be showing itin a clever way and not just
being like I'm going to insert aline here that forces you to
get my point without reallybothering you to show you that
in an elegant way.
Oh, can I do a top five thing?
Speaker 1 (24:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
Top five things that are really not that feminist at
all.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
Okay, top five things that are unfeminist about
Barbie.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
Yeah, in a movie that claims to be really feminist,
is the context right and you candisagree with me.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
Count them down, babe .
Oh sorry, I can't say babe.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
Yes, you can say babe .
Speaker 1 (25:08):
No, according to Barbie, we can't say babe,
that's not feminist.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
Let's just do the five.
So one of them was about Idon't know.
They talked about like pregnantBarbie.
They said pregnant Barbie, youcan't have a pregnant Barbie.
That's just weird.
They said it was discontinued.
I'm like why there is noexplanation as to why pregnant
Barbie is weird.
Why is that weird?
Speaker 1 (25:29):
Who said it?
Speaker 2 (25:30):
One of the Barbies was like oh, pregnant Barbie,
that's just weird.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
The narrator said pregnant Barbie was discontinued
.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
That's right.
I don't understand why and it'snot explained.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
It doesn't make sense anyway, because there's a line
earlier in the film with thenarrators saying that girls
didn't want to play with dollsbecause they don't want to be
mothers or whatever.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
Right, maybe it's something around.
They didn't want young girls toaspire to be pregnant,
something like that, anyway.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
I mean, isn't that unfeminist in itself, because
you're telling girls that theycan't be mothers or that they
shouldn't aspire to be mothersbecause it's the traditional way
?
But what if a woman wants to bea mother?
Speaker 2 (26:10):
Right.
That's why I just think it waslike a weird.
It was just a weird throwawaything that I just think needed a
little bit more explanationbecause it didn't make sense to
me how that was fitting in astory that's trying to be
feminist or like okay, what'sthat?
Speaker 1 (26:24):
Number four, just say like number four.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
Number four was I wish I knew that, ladies.
I think she was like theSpanish lady, the main character
, other than Barbie.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
We don't even know her name.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
Okay, the mother.
So she was obviously a just agrandmother, didn't have a good
relationship with her daughteranymore and she was like I'm
just a boring mom with a boringjob, with a daughter who hates
her.
Like I'm going on this Barbieadventure and I was just like,
look, I just don't really seehow saying that someone's a
boring mom is a feminist comment.
I think again we're past thestage of saying that it's not
(26:58):
feminist to just to be a mother,and I think it's again
offensive to women to say just amother or even to say that a
mother has to be boring andshe's not saying it has to be
boring, but just evenrepresenting that character.
Yeah, I just don't feel likeit's a very inspiring message
for women to hear that, to seethat.
So I don't really understandhow that is an inspiring
(27:21):
feminist message to kind of,yeah, recreate that narrative of
just that being a mother isjust being a mother or that it's
boring.
Speaker 1 (27:29):
I just don't feel it undervalues, dismisses the role
of a mother.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
Yeah, because I actually think true feminism is
about making choices that workfor you, and I don't think it's
feminism to just act like themother role is somehow not
valuable or not worthy orsomething to be dismissed or
scoffed at, or there's somethinggross about it.
(27:53):
Life has to end.
No, it doesn't.
It's an archaic way of viewingmotherhood.
As modern women, we can do muchbetter than just fulfilling
that stereotype of the boringmother.
It doesn't have to be like that, in my opinion.
So I wasn't thrilled about thatdepiction.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
What are we up to?
Number three Number three.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
Oh yeah, so that same character.
She was a super sweet character, the main lady, the Spanish
lady.
She said something aboutordinary Barbie.
She's like let's make anordinary Barbie who's just
trying to get through the dayand I'm like awesome.
But again she's just on thismassive speech about how life is
so hard for women and then ifit's just as hard for a doll
(28:34):
who's just representing a woman,then everything's just screwed
and everything's so hard.
But actually I think what themessage needed to be is like a
doll does not ever, ever, everrepresent a woman.
A doll cannot represent a woman.
It cannot represent thecomplexity of a woman.
It doesn't matter how manyBarbies you make, doesn't matter
(28:55):
what they're called.
Even trying to define that anordinary Barbie is a type of
woman, it is going to excludecertain women.
It is going to limit what awoman can be.
Just by saying that that is anordinary Barbie.
I just feel any attempt todefine the struggles of
womanhood and expect that a dollcan capture that is ridiculous.
(29:16):
You can't define what a womanis in a doll.
A kid just can't.
You, can you can Do you mean can?
Speaker 1 (29:25):
Can't, oh can.
Speaker 2 (29:27):
Canf, I am canf.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
That was an okay joke , All right.
What was your number one?
Speaker 2 (29:33):
We skipped number two .
Speaker 1 (29:34):
Did we.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
I just talked a lot about number three and four.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
All right, number two non-feminist moments.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
I feel like weird Barbie being called the weird
Barbie.
Like I know they apologize itfor a later, but I'm like what's
so weird about her?
She's just got short hair.
Like sure she had drawing onher face but she didn't.
Later in the movie she was justlike smart, wise, had answers
to questions, accepted peoplethat were on the fringes.
(30:03):
I don't understand how she's aweird Barbie.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
There was something she said, though, that was like
you either become really weirdor you're brainwashed.
Do you remember that line?
Speaker 2 (30:13):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
That was a stupid line.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
Yeah, again, it's just saying like you're this or
you're that and I think anyattempt to just say that these
are the two options.
And that's what the movie doesover and over again.
It says men can either be superviolent or submissive.
They can be over-dominating orsubmissive.
Speaker 1 (30:30):
They're either bros or they're insecure.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
Yeah, it's like where's the middle ground?
Speaker 1 (30:34):
Yeah, they're rapists or they're incels.
There's no in-between, there'sno gray area in this movie.
Everything is just black orwhite.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
Yeah, and if I was to think of number one and I will
get to stuff that I did likeabout the movie too, but number
one, I think again it kind oflinks number three.
But the fact that, like, ifstereotypical Barbie is supposed
to represent the stereotypical,if Barbies represent women and
stereotypical Barbie is supposedto represent like a
(31:05):
stereotypical woman and herhaving serious thoughts and her
having thoughts about death oranything serious, is a problem
and the world is melting whenshe has these complex thoughts.
And even later, oh my gosh, I'mjust remembering something as
I'm speaking, when they'retalking about this other Spanish
(31:28):
lady, the main character, beingweird and twisted and saying
that she's dark and she's gotall these thoughts so she
doesn't fit the mould of being awoman.
And then, in order to integrateand deal with all of this, they
decide to make a whole list ofBarbies with mental health
issues and they have depressionBarbie and they represent
(31:49):
depression Barbie as somebodywho is eating on the couch and
wearing tracks, pants for sevendays, checks the Instagram all
the time, and I just thoughtagain, it's just defining and a
little bit ridiculous.
There are plenty of highfunctioning people with
depression.
There are plenty of ways thatpeople can have mental health
(32:11):
disorders where they don't looklike that or act like that.
Again, I think it's not a veryliberating message to kind of
reduce a woman's experience tothat.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
Do you think that the final scene could be considered
anti-feminist?
Speaker 2 (32:28):
Okay, describe which part you mean.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
Well, okay.
The movie ends with Barbiegoing to the gynecologist, so
we're supposed to understandthat now she has a vagina.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
Well, she's become a human.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
Because she's become a human.
It's not explained well at all.
It's never explained.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
I think what's cute is that Ruth tries to explain it
in their Dumbledore moment,like Dumbledore, harry moment,
where they're in this grey cloud.
She's saying you have a choiceyou can go back to Bible and or
you can come into the real worldand embrace humanity.
And that's cute because she'slike choosing imperfection over
perfection.
And that's liberating because,yay, we're all human and we're
(33:10):
imperfect and even someonethat's perfect would choose it.
How liberating.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
So you don't consider it anti-feminist that like she
becomes liberated at the end bygoing to the gynecologist, so
she's now defined by her femalegenitals.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
Interesting.
I saw it as I mean, I wasexpecting her to get a job,
because that's usually like okay, she's rejected.
The story of I have to end upwith a guy, my programming was
like, okay, the next thing islike to choose the career over
the guy.
So I was expecting her to gofor like a job interview.
But then she's obviously goingto the gynecologist, which I saw
(33:45):
is kind of cute because she'staking interest in her body and
she's obviously thinking abouther own health.
But I can, I can see the wholethe thought of her being defined
by her genitalia in that moment.
Yeah, so I thought it was aninteresting ending.
It didn't say that much to mereally.
Speaker 1 (34:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:05):
Except that she's taking responsibility for her,
her sexual health or herpersonal wellbeing, which is
good, I guess.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
You know, someone brought up to me.
They were like I thought thismovie would be fun and charming,
like disenchanted.
Did you ever say disenchanted?
Speaker 2 (34:21):
No, really Should we watch it.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
Well, it'd be better than this.
Yeah, it's like Cinderella.
I think it's Cinderella.
It's one of the Disneyprincesses essentially escaping
Disney in like animated, andgoing into the real world and
her and the prince and all theother characters go in the real
world and it's like a fishy outof water kind of story.
It's what this could have been.
Speaker 2 (34:44):
Should we look at the camera, babies?
That where the people are.
Hey people, sorry.
Speaker 1 (34:49):
I just like looking at you.
Yeah, I'm just kidding, I'mjust kidding.
Speaker 2 (34:59):
Where I see love, she sees a friend.
Speaker 1 (35:01):
You want to beat you off.
Speaker 2 (35:04):
So yeah, disenchanted , better Is that.
Speaker 1 (35:08):
Well, yeah, I mean, there's lots of things I'd
rather watch or do over thisfilm.
Speaker 2 (35:14):
Does it?
Yeah, you saw it twice For you.
Hey, I was saying it for you sothat we could do this.
Yeah, that's love, isn't it?
Speaker 1 (35:25):
Didn't work out well for me on my end.
Speaker 2 (35:29):
Look, I've got to say disenchanted, and with
everybody falling in love.
I don't remember, but that wasone good thing about Barbie.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
That disenchanted has a much simpler message and it
was before the woke era ofHollywood, so I doubt it went
down the whole path of thisbullshit went through.
I doubt that the princess goesto the real world and all the
construction workers are likehey, baby, take off that dress
and let me have sex with you.
I don't think that happens indisengaged.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
No, I don't think.
It sounds like it's more in forchildren.
Look, I have to say it was agood message how Bobby didn't
end up, because even willferrell, he goes.
Okay, we need an ending, right,the ending.
All right, bobby and Ken end uptogether.
That's the ending.
Speaker 1 (36:15):
Yeah, this movie is so lazy that it just has
characters announce what theending should be.
They just go.
What should the ending be, guys, I don't know what should we
end up with Bobby and Kentogether?
And then the characters arefighting over the ending of the
movie and I'm just like just end, just end.
Speaker 2 (36:36):
There were some bits that did drag on a little bit.
What did you think of thecharacter Alan?
Speaker 1 (36:41):
He was kind of useless, pointless, don't know
what they were trying tocommunicate with that character.
Speaker 2 (36:49):
I think he represented a gay guy, don't you
think?
Or like, just like anon-defined, you know, a man
that isn't masculine and is alittle bit of a question mark.
Speaker 1 (36:59):
Oh, because he was the only good guy.
Speaker 2 (37:02):
No, because he was the only one that wasn't called
Ken.
Speaker 1 (37:04):
So the movie's trying to say that gay guys are the
only good guys, becauseheterosexual men obviously
rapists and serial killers.
Speaker 2 (37:13):
Ken was heterosexual and he can I tell you what, for
those of you at home in Seoul,means.
Speaker 1 (37:21):
Involuntarily celibate.
Yeah, so like a guy that can'tis having trouble trying to have
sex with women.
Speaker 2 (37:28):
Because they don't.
They're not interested.
Speaker 1 (37:30):
Yeah, because the women aren't interested, because
they're like low value,whatever.
Whatever stereotypical thingyou think.
They live in their basement,they never coming out, they play
World of Warcraft all the time,whatever kind of stereotype.
Speaker 2 (37:43):
Okay, One of the most touching, moving moments of the
whole film for me.
Do you want to know what it was?
Was it Ken it was a Ken momentoh.
Speaker 1 (37:53):
I am Ken enough, was it that?
Speaker 2 (37:54):
It was the moment.
Oh, it gets me now when I thinkabout it.
It was when Ken and Barbiefighting.
You know, she's come back andhe's basically I can't remember
exactly what happens, but hecalls out and says to her you
failed me, right.
Speaker 1 (38:13):
Oh, yeah, that actually yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:14):
Yeah, they're kind of fighting and saying, like
Barbie was saying, I failed theworld, I failed the world and
Peter Huck has failed somepeople.
Blah, blah, blah.
And then Ken just breaks downand he's like no, you failed me
and I just got goosebumps andyou could just see his pain in
that moment, the browness andthe dismissiveness and the
(38:38):
selfishness and all the stuffthat he was doing.
It was because he was so hurtthat she didn't value him and
didn't respect him and didn'tthink he was significant.
And I thought that was the mostpowerful part of the movie.
That was really showing thecrux of the problem here that
when men and women don't valueeach other and respect each
other, each of them are going todo crazy stuff that is just
(39:02):
going to cause hurt and pain foreverybody.
Speaker 1 (39:04):
Yeah, and I can get behind that message.
That's a good message that waslost in the shuffle of all this
other crap.
But it's buried under all thiscringe dialogue and manhating
moments and womanhating moments.
And yeah, it's just buriedunderneath there.
But like that's why I said toyou, if they made a Ken movie
(39:26):
and it was just like that story,that could have been
interesting.
Speaker 2 (39:31):
Do you think people would have an issue with you
saying that the Barbie movieshould have been a Ken movie?
Speaker 1 (39:37):
No, because I'm saying that because Ken was the
only fun, interesting aspect ofthe whole movie was Ken.
He was the only interestingcharacter for me because there
was somewhere for the characterto go and to learn.
And he was more endearingbecause of Ryan Gosling.
He was likable, he wassympathetic, whereas I didn't
(39:59):
care about Barbie's journey orstruggles at all.
I didn't care when thecorporation was chasing her down
, when they said to her we wantto just put you in a box.
I didn't care about anythingshe was going through.
Speaker 2 (40:13):
Well, I mean, her journey wasn't that substantial,
to be honest.
I mean you feel sorry for herbecause she's upset, but she
doesn't want cellular, shedoesn't want to have thoughts of
death.
She's having to face thingsthat are human, but she's really
only scratching the surface.
They're very, very small thingsthat she's having to deal with.
(40:33):
Obviously she has to deal withbeing thrown out of a house, but
I can't just remember him, butKen's character.
He's endearing, he's vulnerable, he's tortured.
We can relate to his struggles.
He actually depicts the humanstruggles really well.
Speaker 1 (40:52):
Make a Ken movie.
I mean, the movie made a jokeabout them making a Ken movie,
so they probably are going tomake a Ken movie.
I don't know how that wouldwork, because who's going to
watch it?
Speaker 2 (41:05):
I don't think she hates men.
Speaker 1 (41:07):
I think she definitely hates men.
Speaker 2 (41:09):
I think she tried to make a point that she made that
point about like it's okay tocry.
Barbie told Ken it was okay tocry, that was a good thing, but
he did appear to be quitepathetic, like her depiction of
him was not empowering for youngmen.
Speaker 1 (41:24):
It's purely just because Ryan Gosling is a good
actor that anything is goodabout Ken.
If any other actor was tohandle that character, he would
have been probably I don't knowmaybe greater girl.
We didn't even want RyanGosling, maybe she did want
someone more pathetic to playthe character so she could crush
men and be like oh you men,you're all little pawns in my
(41:49):
game, in my world of Barbie,because women are better.
Speaker 2 (41:55):
Oh gosh, Look, women are pretty good.
I'm not going to lie.
Speaker 1 (41:59):
I love women.
I just think that you can makea movie that celebrates women
without putting shit on men.
I think there's lots that canbe done to celebrate women
without shitting on men.
Speaker 2 (42:11):
Yeah and look, you can say, oh, but it's just
supposed to be a bit of fun, butno, it's deliberately trying to
make some social, culturalstatements.
Speaker 1 (42:21):
If this movie wasn't targeted at children then I
would say, oh, it's just a bitof fun, it's just a stupid movie
.
But when you target childrenand this movie, both times that
we saw it in the cinemas therewere kids commercials playing
before the film.
So clearly this was beingtargeted to children.
So this is all part of someagenda, some propaganda, that
(42:45):
they want to fill youngchildren's minds with this shit.
So that's my problem with it.
If the movie was like M and itwas made for it was obviously
targeted, I would just be like,oh, it's just some more woke
garbage.
Speaker 2 (42:58):
What is it rated I?
Speaker 1 (42:59):
think it's rated PG.
Speaker 2 (43:01):
Should I check that.
Speaker 1 (43:02):
You can check that.
I mean I'm looking at thepreviews and the way that the
marketing and everything hasbeen targeting it's appealing to
children.
Speaker 2 (43:11):
Children are going to see it.
Speaker 1 (43:12):
Children are going to see it with their mums and
their mums are probably.
Speaker 2 (43:16):
PG.
So parental guidance isrecommended because it's got
suggestive references.
Speaker 1 (43:22):
That just reminded me of something else.
Speaker 2 (43:25):
What.
Speaker 1 (43:26):
Another line from the movie that's super cringe and
also problematic, being thatit's appealing to children.
There's a line where the weirdBarbie says oh, you're with that
, ken, right?
Oh, I'd love to see what boldshe's got under those shorts.
Speaker 2 (43:43):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (43:44):
So it's okay to objectify men and talk about
their privates, but if the roleswere reversed and that line was
applying to Margot Robbie, oh,that would not work.
Speaker 2 (43:59):
Look, I think it's a bit of a washing machine.
Let's be honest, it's a bit ofa washing machine.
I don't think it holds thesolution for male, female
empowerment.
I think the gender wars I thinkthe movie shows that the gender
wars that happen, there's onewinner and that winner is
capitalism and the economy andthe toy production companies and
(44:21):
all the shops.
Speaker 1 (44:23):
Well, that's what it's all about really.
I mean, it's all aboutHollywood trying to make people,
men and women hate each otheras much as possible so that they
can be alone and miserable, sothat they can buy more shit that
they don't need fueling theconsumerism which is ironic
because this movie even mentionsthat Barbie herself is some
(44:45):
fascist.
That reinforces consumerism andall that crap, but this movie
itself is just more of thatanyway.
Speaker 2 (44:54):
Trying to leave it on a note where, like the cute
moments, was there any cutemoments we can leave people with
?
Speaker 1 (45:02):
Maybe we'll just fade out with the arm.
Just kins, I'm just Ken and Ihate this film.
You should not watch this, andI'm so glad I don't have to talk
about this anymore.
I'm just Ken, where I'm down,she's seen, she's seen.
(45:27):
I'm so disappointed in you.
Oh my God.
Speaker 2 (45:35):
Yeah, I've got a few more points, but I feel like
we've made our points, haven'twe?
Speaker 1 (45:41):
Yeah, let's wrap it up.
Let's wrap it up before theymake Barbie too.
Speaker 2 (45:45):
Oh, they'll probably be a Barbie too.
Speaker 1 (45:47):
I know they will be.
Speaker 2 (45:48):
I'm probably gonna have to say it.
Speaker 1 (45:50):
Well, hopefully there's not as much hype for a
Barbie too.
Speaker 2 (45:54):
There'll be more.
Speaker 1 (45:55):
There shouldn't be more hype for a Barbie too,
because now everyone knows thatBarbie is really trash.
Speaker 2 (46:02):
No.
Speaker 1 (46:03):
And it was just overhyped.
Speaker 2 (46:05):
People loved it.
Speaker 1 (46:06):
I have not found one woman that said they liked it.
When I post on social media, Iget comments.
Well, I mostly got mencommenting being like, oh, did
you actually watch that?
I was like, yeah, I had towatch it.
I got one woman that sent melike a skull.
I don't know what the hell shewas trying to say to that.
I don't know if that was like amessage like you're going to
die for hating on Barbie.
Speaker 2 (46:29):
Well, it's one of those kind of thought prisons,
because a lot of people aresaying if you hate the movie,
that you are anti-feminist.
So you can't really win in thatway.
Speaker 1 (46:42):
Any movie where someone says if you hate this,
then you're this.
I always just hate the moviebecause I'm like fine and hate
the movie.
What are you going to do aboutit?
Speaker 2 (46:52):
Yeah, it's hard because it doesn't give people
the space to have criticalthinking and thought around
things.
Speaker 1 (46:59):
Well, at the end of the day, it's a movie.
If people can't accept people'sopinions of a movie, then
there's no chance for us goingforward growing as a society,
because that means that we'renot accepting of other opinions,
values.
Speaker 2 (47:14):
Yeah, and we need to be able to have conversations
and share opinions so that wecan see what the opposite sex or
other people are thinking andfeeling about reality, because
the truth is, people are goingto have a different experience
of reality and we need to haveconversations to find out what
other people's experience ofreality is, instead of trying to
be like, no, this is the onlyreality.
(47:36):
That's my final point.
Speaker 1 (47:38):
Yeah, watch Openheimer instead.
Let's end on that.
All right, that's it for me.
I am Ken enough.
Speaker 2 (47:47):
You are Ken enough.
Speaker 1 (47:48):
All right, if you enjoyed the show, please like,
share and subscribe and checkout more videos from this
channel.
That's me, guys.
I'm just kidding, I'm dead.
Hey everyone and welcome to Movies Worth Seeing
and today we're taking apartBarbie.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
I know you're excited about this.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
Whenever you question whether or not I love you, I'm
just going to say I watchedBarbie twice and that should be.
That should tell you everything.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
You know that you did it for the good of the people
as well.
You needed to give them areview.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
I didn't want to watch this twice.
I didn't want to watch thisonce.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Well, the story behind watching it twice, for
those of you listening at home.
We were in Rome waiting for ourflight.
It had some hours to kill, sowe went to the cinema but we had
to leave 15 minutes before theending to get to our flight back
to Sydney.
So then we had to go again thisweek to see it for the second
time because we had a hunch thatthe 15 minutes that we missed
(00:54):
had some important points thatwrapped up the movie.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
There was hope that the last 15 minutes saved this
trash, but it didn't.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
It went away to saving it.
When we left, there was no hope.
We left kind of just wheneverything was falling apart.
The kens were losing theirminds, Barbie was crying, there
was a lot happening and we leftand we just thought this movie
is terrible.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
I was wondering when will this movie end, because for
a two hour movie it feels likeit goes the same length as Lord
of the Rings.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
That's just because you weren't enjoying it, do you?
It only went, I think, for anhour and a half.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
I think every scene in this movie should be trimmed
by like five minutes.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Look, I'm not going to lie and the reason I'm on
here is so that we can bringthat feminine balance
perspective.
I know that if you had your wayyou'd just talk trash on it for
40 minutes.
But look, there are somepositive things about the movie
and the ending, I feel, does goaway to try and salvage some of
the damaging messages that itdoes portray, especially given
(02:02):
that children are going to watchthis with a pretty uncritical,
lack of critical thinking eyeand they're going to absorb some
of the messages that are donein tongue and cheek and done
because they're trying to beironic and for children it's
just going to be lost in them.
They're just going to look atthis movie.
They're going to be like girlsrule, boys suck, they suck, and
that's not really feminist.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
Girls rule, boys rule .
That's what I felt.
This movie, with that same toneof little kid on the playground
trying to be like you're a boy,but you have cuties and I'm a
girl, so I'm cool.
That's the same tone that thismovie had throughout the whole
movie.
It was written by a child butyet somehow not written to
(02:47):
appeal to children, because evenchildren are going to be like
this is so boring.
What are they talking about?
Speaker 2 (02:53):
Look, some of the colours were very flashy and fun
.
I used to play with Barbieswhen I was little and seeing
Barbie wake up and be in the funhouse and everything's perfect
and fun there is a part of everylittle girl who's growing up.
Playing with Barbies that kindof is like, yeah, that's cool, I
want to wake up in a sparklybed and I want to go to the
beach all day.
(03:14):
But I think what's kind ofproblematic about this movie is
that everyone's talking about itas if it's it's feminist, but I
still think that it has somevery problematic messages about
women and I guess we can talk alittle bit about this as we get
into it.
But yeah, I think, while it's afun movie to watch and a lot of
you know I know there's adivided audience.
(03:34):
A lot of people are like, yes,this is a great movie, and a lot
of people are like this is aterrible movie.
I think, regardless of whetheryou find it fun, there are still
some problematic things aboutit.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
Yeah, I actually had an idea.
Just spare the moment, let'scall this a top five cringe
lines from Barbie yeah, thiswill be good for like TikTok and
all that crap.
Top five cringe lines ofdialogue from Barbie.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Number five yeah, I'm a man with no power.
Does that make me a woman?
No, that's gotta be number one.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
That has to be number one.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
I can't do the minota .
Speaker 1 (04:10):
Oh, ok.
Number five when the mother istalking to her daughter and she
says, of course the dad doesn'tfeel any anxiety, he, the child,
takes it all out on me.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
They didn't take it out on the dads.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
They never take it out on the dads.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
Whoa, that's saying a lot.
Yeah, I felt that was a bitaggressive.
I think that little line kindof captures how the movie is
really just looking at the worstof current society in men and
the dynamics between men andwomen.
It's not really taking intoaccount any progress that's been
(04:47):
made.
I don't think the reality isthat men are not stressed about
their children and that theirchildren don't complain to them
or create anxiety for them.
So yeah, good one, that's agood cringe moment.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
Because the film needed to attack dads as well,
because dads are men, so we haveto attack dads.
Number four when Ryan Gosling'sKen is talking, when he's
discovered the patriarchy inreality, in the real world,
after they escaped Barbie land,he says to one of the corporate
(05:20):
guys that he applies for a joband he says to him I'm a man,
shouldn't I just have this job?
And then the guy's like no, itdoesn't work that way.
And he's like you guys aredoing a horrible job with the
patriarchy.
And he says we're still doingthe patriarchy, we're just a bit
more subtle about it.
He says something like we're abit more covert or like subtle
(05:41):
about the patriarchy.
Well, yeah, because it's stupid.
Men don't talk like that, it'sjust dumb.
They're trying to say at onepoint the reality of Barbie
world is made out to be amatriarchy.
When we go to the real worldthey exaggerate the fuck out of
all sexism in the real world tomake it look like it's Barbie
(06:07):
level of of a patriarchy wheremen are completely dominating
women.
And I just don't know what thereal world that they're trying
to present.
I don't know where they'regoing with it, because it
doesn't feel like reality,because there's no subtlety in
any way.
None of the men talk like that.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
I think that line for me obviously is trying to point
to the fact that people in thisreality can't get away with
just blatantly being a sexistanymore, especially in
corporations.
But that character is justcheekily saying, hey, like we're
still doing it, we're justdoing it in a way that no one
can really see it.
It is confusing because we justsaw a scene where it is really
(06:50):
obvious and then we just saw ascene.
There's a scene later whereMattel is saying we hired a
woman 50 years ago and we hadanother woman a couple of years
ago.
So don't say that we don't hirewomen, but it's like a
boardroom for these men, sothey're not actually doing it
that well.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
I looked up the CEO, the board of Mattel, and there's
five women and six men on theboard and the CEO for like 30
years, was Ruth, the creator ofBarbie.
So what the hell are theytrying to achieve?
They're criticizing Mattel, butMattel is part of this movie,
(07:28):
so I don't understand what thepoint was of that.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
Mattel is the winner of this movie.
This is such a clear productplacement movie that's trying to
redefine the narrative ofBarbie because, let's face it,
there are other dolls now andBarbie was probably becoming a
little bit irrelevant and we'reall progressing and we don't
subscribe to the ideal of womanthat Barbie is representing
anymore and Mattel was probablylike oh no, we have to make
(07:52):
Barbie empowering.
So let's make a movie and geteveryone excited about what
Barbie represents empowerment.
And I think they are thewinners of this because Barbie
stocks probably flying, I meanfrom the profits of the movie, I
guess.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
But as far as their image and the company's look,
you just said that the companyis this sexist, misogynistic
society of a company that youmake out.
The company stole the idea ofRuth, practically imprisoned her
in a little cubby house in theMattel corporation.
(08:31):
She's a slave where she has todrink tea all day and just
conveniently pop out of nowherewhen the story wants her to, and
I'm like she was the CEO for 30years.
So it just doesn't make sense.
Yeah, and will ferrell was not avery stable character number
three could be all of willferrell's lines in the entire
(08:52):
movie.
The line you said, though,where he's like oh my god, I'm
not racist and I'm not sexist,I'm the son of a mother.
I'm a mother of a son.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
Well, that's speaking to that thing of like I'm not
racist but because I have afriend who's this and I have a,
I'm not homophobic because Ihave a gay friend and all of
that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
But for the script to make will ferrell not funny,
that takes a lot of non talent.
It takes a shitload of horribletalent, no non existent talent,
to be able to write a scriptwhere even someone as talented
and funny as will ferrell cannotmake it work.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
There was a funny bit , though, where he's like trying
to catch barbie when she'strying to run out and escape,
and then he's trying to grab him.
He's trying to get to us, sohe's like I'm going to go over
the cubicle, it's much fasterand then he gets caught.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
The part when the barbie movie becomes Scooby Doo,
with people just like trying tocatch barbie.
And barbie can run in highheels or whatever, but men in
suits just fly across the roomand can't reach her.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
And then she can get out of the doors without a card,
but they're like, oh god, wecan't get out without our key
cards, even though they couldhave stepped over the barrier.
I found that really funny aswell.
Maybe I haven't loweredthreshold for you.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
You have a higher threshold for cringe than me.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
Number two.
What do you think number two is?
Speaker 1 (10:26):
Number two maybe the beach off thing.
So every character keeps sayinglike you want to go, bro, you
want to beat you off.
And then they just keep sayingyou want to beat you off, I'll
beat you off.
Well, I'll beat you off at thesame time and you get it.
It's like masturbating.
It's so not funny.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
The high barbie thing got a bit much too.
High barbie, high barbie, highbarbie, high barbie.
I was like, ok, all right,that's enough, that's enough, we
get it.
Everyone's called barbie,everything's uniform.
There's no variety, we get it,it's awesome.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
And then number one cringiest line from barbie is
I'm a man with no power.
Does that make me a woman?
Speaker 2 (11:08):
And I know the part that really annoyed you about
this is that a woman made amovie.
We're living in a world wherewomen have a lot of power and
it's very dismissive of the factthat a woman made this movie
and has influence.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
Before we even sat down for the podcast, you even
said it's offensive to men andwomen.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
Well it is.
Yeah, I know it's trying to befunny.
I know it's trying to beself-aware.
It's trying to say like, haha,in the past, men that don't have
power are just as bad as awoman and that's why the worst
thing can be called is a girl.
But for a little person that'swatching that, they're just
going to hear it.
They're not going to understandthe context of why it's
supposed to be ironic, they'rejust going to go.
(11:46):
What do you mean?
Speaker 1 (11:48):
You know, when you hear something really cringy and
you feel it like knots in yourstomach, like that was just poor
taste.
That's what I felt when I heardthat.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
Oh my gosh, you've missed one of the cringe moments
Honourable mention.
Honourable mention, oh, thatone where I think they're at the
Supreme Court of all the womenand then that lawyer woman is
staying there and she's like I'ma woman, I can hold logic and
judgment, I can hold logic andemotion, and it does not
diminish my power.
That was a cringe moment for me.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
But like those lines.
Yeah, that is a.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
That was a cringe line, it's a good point, but
it's a cringe moment, but allthe Barbies in the movie.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
They just like that and it's just the rider's voice.
It's so obvious.
It's just the rider's voicebeing like.
Because I'm a woman, I can holdemotion and logic, I can
multitask, I am comfortable withmy emotions and blah, blah,
blah and all this crap and it'slike who are you talking to?
Speaker 2 (12:47):
Yeah, I feel like even saying it or trying to make
the point is yeah, of course wecan hold logic and emotion.
I think that we're a little bitpast that and for anyone that
says, oh no, there are stillpeople in the world who don't
have that kind of power or therestill isn't that understanding,
this movie is like a veryheavily Western values based.
(13:08):
Let's not pretend that we'rethis movie representing all the
women in the world, because thereason Barbie is going on this
journey is because she's upsetabout getting cellulite.
So she, she starts this journeybecause she's like I don't want
to have serious thoughts, Ican't be pretty and have serious
thoughts about death and lifeand meaning and I don't want
cellulite and the worst thingthat could happen is being ugly.
(13:30):
So she goes on this journey andthen towards the end, you
realise that she starts cryingbecause she, she doesn't know
where she fits in or she doesn'tthink she's pretty anymore.
And there's this really rousingspeech that's everyone's talking
about as being reallyempowering from the other main
character.
Who does this speech about?
(13:50):
Like all the issues of womenand why it's so hard to be a
woman.
And I'm just like there arewomen in other countries, right,
that would look at that andthey'd just be like is that what
you're upset about?
Really You're upset about thosethings?
Well, we're upset because westill don't have the right to do
anything in our countries.
We still are getting humantrafficked, we don't have any
(14:12):
rights, and so I do think thatin some ways it's yes, it's
depicting the struggles of themodern woman and how there's all
this social pressure right, butsocial pressure and social
expectations is almost like theluxury of being in a free
society for those women, whenthere are other women that are
really still struggling with thebasics, and I just feel like
(14:33):
the Bible movie doesn't reallyacknowledge that at all.
It's just like I'm empoweredbecause I can cry.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
I don't know.
The movie just comes acrosslike a spoiled brat complaining
that they didn't get a toy fromthem, that their mum didn't buy
them a toy.
So they make a whole movie justwhinging about how entitled and
spoiled they are.
The person who wrote thisgreater girl wig.
You directed this.
You wrote this, so what are youwhinging about?
(15:00):
I'm so oppressed that I made ahundred million dollar movie A
billion now.
And made a billion dollars.
Look at how oppressed I am.
She'll probably still winchthat she's oppressed even after
the movie.
I can't take the holy wokeanymore.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
He's upset.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
ladies and gentlemen, I can't take it.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
Was there anything you liked about the movie?
You liked something I know youdid.
You told me.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
Production design in the first 20 minutes looked good
.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
You liked Ryan Gosling.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
Look, ryan Gosling scraped the bottom of the barrel
as far as he made dialogue workdue to his just absolute
commitment.
He's so funny that even thoughI was like listening to the
dialogue and I was like, oh,this is so cringe, he still made
me laugh.
That guy deserves an AcademyAward for making any of this
(15:49):
funny.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
He probably will get one out as well.
He was very good and I have tosay that like watching Ken and
how he was deliberately beingoverlooked like just Ken you
know, I'm just Ken that movedthe song so good, depicting that
.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
Actually that was one good moment, was that song?
Speaker 2 (16:06):
Yeah, that was a catchy song.
I know you've listened to itsince.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
Yeah, I have listened to it.
I do like the song.
It brings up something that ifthis movie just had one simple
character, arc or plot line, ifit was simply just focusing on
Barbie adjusting to being ahuman, something like that, from
going into the real world, andthen Ken's subplot about him
(16:30):
being insecure because he feelslike he needs to be with Barbie
because it's Barbie and Ken,then I could get behind it.
But it just gets into thiswhole.
It just feels like a blender ofall these different rough ideas
of Greta Goh.
We've just been like all right,we hate men.
Matriarchy good, patriarchy,bad.
(16:52):
Men are insecure.
Men are incels.
The Godfather is bad and thismovie is bad and men always want
to show women how to playsports.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
I loved that little one touch.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
It's like she wrote this movie.
I don't know if she has ahusband, but if she has a
husband it feels like I put allmy frustrations with my husband
in this movie, in the script.
That's what it feels like.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
I think something you said earlier was before this
podcast, like after the moviewhen we were chatting was that
there were so many issues thatyou couldn't really fully
explore one or two of them andit probably would have been more
effective to not try to make somany points at once because I
think some of them were lost.
And, yeah, especially for ayounger audience.
(17:39):
I just keep thinking about thatscene.
All the Barbies are trying totake back the power.
At the start, at the end, theirmassive plan to re-empower
women and win back theConstitution is to act dumb and
helpless, to distract the menand pretend to listen to them.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
So patronizing.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Then, once the men feel like they're important,
deliberately turn them againsteach other, using their jealousy
and playing on the insecurity.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
The movie has to explain all of these messages
explicitly.
When they talk about the plane,they say we'll turn them
against each other becausethey're petty and jealous.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
As men are so jealous and insecure that all it takes
is for a woman to listen to aguy play Rob Thomas, and then
they'll get up, go to the otherguy and all the guys will be
like, oh, we're going to go towar now.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
Well, I mean, it really didn't make men or women
look good in that scene, becauseit's basically saying the way
to win is to play yourfemininity against men, play
dumb and then make themdeliberately jealous.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
It's telling little girls to weaponize their own
sexuality in order to turn menagainst each other.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
Because that's true power.
And look, I understand themovie didn't mean that in the
end, because by the time you getto a few scenes down the track,
there's this rousing speech byBarbie about how Ken needs to
find himself and that he's notdefined by all the things he
thinks he's defined as as he can.
A child's attention span isn'tgoing to be able to take in 20
(19:15):
minute scenes that are apartfrom each other and go hang on a
second.
That scene wasn't really sayingthat, because now Barbie's
saying this and actually men andwomen are friends and they both
need to be empowered.
A little child's brain is notgoing to be able to work that
out.
They're just going to rememberthat scene of like oh power, I
know how to be powerful.
I'm going to play my sexualityand weaponize it against the men
(19:38):
, and that's how we win.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
Yeah, they're not going to remember what they
heard, they're going to rememberwhat they see.
And what they saw in that scenewas the women just getting up
moving to other kens and thejealousy that it caused.
And that it was deliberate andthat it was empowering the women
to do that to the men.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
Now I understand in a way the movie's like trying to
show that distraction is a toolused by governments to win votes
.
The media is often usingdistraction tactics to win
constitutional votes and that'swhy, especially in America,
there's so much focus on likegetting everyone to vote,
because if they use distractiontechniques they can actually get
(20:21):
certain demographics of peopleto just not vote or forget to
vote or be somewhere elseconveniently.
I think that it's mentioningthat in a subtle way and also
sometimes I was thinking hang on, is this movie really clever
and actually presenting the kensthe way that women have
traditionally been?
Ken only has a good day ifBarbie looks at him.
(20:43):
How many years has there beenthe kind of narrative that a
woman's worth is based onwhether the men value her?
A girl's happy if the man textsher and if anyone doesn't text
her, she's not happy.
I do wonder if the movie'sflipped its genders on their
head so that we can get thatdiscomfort of feeling for the
(21:03):
kens the way that women havetraditionally kind of been
forced into feeling.
And even myself I'm like maybethat's what the movie was doing,
but it's still damaging.
It's still a damaging message.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
And it still doesn't fix the issues of the blatant,
just patronizing, cringy virtuesignalling when Barbie and Ken
go to the real world.
It still doesn't fix that theyhave the men at the construction
site saying, hey, babe, you'rean object, I want to hold you
(21:37):
against you, so I can feel youand like the other construction
worker, he might as well justyell down I want to have sex
with you.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
There are no children listening.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
It's damaging because young girls could watch this
and be like, oh, that's reality,that's the real world.
So do I stay away fromconstruction sites?
Are men going to ogle me andwant to slap my ass when, in
California of all places, forthem to do that scene, that was
rich.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
Well, look, I think and we've talked about this as
well there is a time where womencouldn't you couldn't as a
woman walk past a constructionsite without expecting a whistle
or a long pause watching you,someone saying something to you.
I can remember even five yearsago, or five to 10 years ago,
you couldn't walk past a groupof men and feel like something's
(22:28):
not going to be said to me.
That's the reality.
I think post-metru and more now, things are a bit different.
I personally now feel like Ican walk comfortably past a
construction site and no one'sgoing to say anything to me,
cause men are scared to death ofwomen now.
So I think that's the issue.
I think like this movie mighthave been like super progressive
(22:48):
five or 10 years ago.
I just think that now it'sclear like women are getting
power.
Women are doing really well andI think there's a lot of
literature to show that in someways women are thriving.
And yes, there's still a longway to go in terms of
institutionalized sexism.
But actually feminism really isabout men and women doing well
(23:11):
and there's a lot, a lot ofpeople that recognize men are
getting hit hard by the lack.
The patriarchy doesn't servemen either, and men are
struggling with mental health.
They are struggling withempowerment.
I actually think today if Kenwas walking down the road in
those clothes, barbie would getaway with it and be fine, and it
(23:31):
would be Ken that wouldactually receive roasted, the
flak for wearing something likethat, walking past construction
workers.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
I personally think what Barbie says in that moment.
In that scene as well, I'msensing undertones of violence.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
Rapey.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
I know, but I just find it stupid.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
You hated it in all those moments where they just
stated the obvious, like I knowthat I'm just a girl, I'm just a
Barbie, so I shouldn't behaving conjectures that are
based on an adjacent reality.
Whatever that sentence is thatshe says.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
Like that, those type of lines How's that targeting
children or appealing tochildren when they talk that way
?
Speaker 2 (24:10):
Well, those bits are for adults and those bits, I
think that magic show don't tellis like a really effective film
technique and this film justlike ignores that and is like
I'm just going to tell you whatI'm trying to say here.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
This movie is just tell everything that everyone is
ever thinking.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
Yeah, and it's like trying to be clever, but the
clever part would be showing itin a clever way and not just
being like I'm going to insert aline here that forces you to
get my point without reallybothering you to show you that
in an elegant way.
Oh, can I do a top five thing?
Speaker 1 (24:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
Top five things that are really not that feminist at
all.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
Okay, top five things that are unfeminist about
Barbie.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
Yeah, in a movie that claims to be really feminist,
is the context right and you candisagree with me.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
Count them down, babe .
Oh sorry, I can't say babe.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
Yes, you can say babe .
Speaker 1 (25:08):
No, according to Barbie, we can't say babe,
that's not feminist.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
Let's just do the five.
So one of them was about Idon't know.
They talked about like pregnantBarbie.
They said pregnant Barbie, youcan't have a pregnant Barbie.
That's just weird.
They said it was discontinued.
I'm like why there is noexplanation as to why pregnant
Barbie is weird.
Why is that weird?
Speaker 1 (25:29):
Who said it?
Speaker 2 (25:30):
One of the Barbies was like oh, pregnant Barbie,
that's just weird.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
The narrator said pregnant Barbie was discontinued
.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
That's right.
I don't understand why and it'snot explained.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
It doesn't make sense anyway, because there's a line
earlier in the film with thenarrators saying that girls
didn't want to play with dollsbecause they don't want to be
mothers or whatever.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
Right, maybe it's something around.
They didn't want young girls toaspire to be pregnant,
something like that, anyway.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
I mean, isn't that unfeminist in itself, because
you're telling girls that theycan't be mothers or that they
shouldn't aspire to be mothersbecause it's the traditional way
?
But what if a woman wants to bea mother?
Speaker 2 (26:10):
Right.
That's why I just think it waslike a weird.
It was just a weird throwawaything that I just think needed a
little bit more explanationbecause it didn't make sense to
me how that was fitting in astory that's trying to be
feminist or like okay, what'sthat?
Speaker 1 (26:24):
Number four, just say like number four.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
Number four was I wish I knew that, ladies.
I think she was like theSpanish lady, the main character
, other than Barbie.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
We don't even know her name.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
Okay, the mother.
So she was obviously a just agrandmother, didn't have a good
relationship with her daughteranymore and she was like I'm
just a boring mom with a boringjob, with a daughter who hates
her.
Like I'm going on this Barbieadventure and I was just like,
look, I just don't really seehow saying that someone's a
boring mom is a feminist comment.
I think again we're past thestage of saying that it's not
(26:58):
feminist to just to be a mother,and I think it's again
offensive to women to say just amother or even to say that a
mother has to be boring andshe's not saying it has to be
boring, but just evenrepresenting that character.
Yeah, I just don't feel likeit's a very inspiring message
for women to hear that, to seethat.
So I don't really understandhow that is an inspiring
(27:21):
feminist message to kind of,yeah, recreate that narrative of
just that being a mother isjust being a mother or that it's
boring.
Speaker 1 (27:29):
I just don't feel it undervalues, dismisses the role
of a mother.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
Yeah, because I actually think true feminism is
about making choices that workfor you, and I don't think it's
feminism to just act like themother role is somehow not
valuable or not worthy orsomething to be dismissed or
scoffed at, or there's somethinggross about it.
(27:53):
Life has to end.
No, it doesn't.
It's an archaic way of viewingmotherhood.
As modern women, we can do muchbetter than just fulfilling
that stereotype of the boringmother.
It doesn't have to be like that, in my opinion.
So I wasn't thrilled about thatdepiction.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
What are we up to?
Number three Number three.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
Oh yeah, so that same character.
She was a super sweet character, the main lady, the Spanish
lady.
She said something aboutordinary Barbie.
She's like let's make anordinary Barbie who's just
trying to get through the dayand I'm like awesome.
But again she's just on thismassive speech about how life is
so hard for women and then ifit's just as hard for a doll
(28:34):
who's just representing a woman,then everything's just screwed
and everything's so hard.
But actually I think what themessage needed to be is like a
doll does not ever, ever, everrepresent a woman.
A doll cannot represent a woman.
It cannot represent thecomplexity of a woman.
It doesn't matter how manyBarbies you make, doesn't matter
(28:55):
what they're called.
Even trying to define that anordinary Barbie is a type of
woman, it is going to excludecertain women.
It is going to limit what awoman can be.
Just by saying that that is anordinary Barbie.
I just feel any attempt todefine the struggles of
womanhood and expect that a dollcan capture that is ridiculous.
(29:16):
You can't define what a womanis in a doll.
A kid just can't.
You, can you can Do you mean can?
Speaker 1 (29:25):
Can't, oh can.
Speaker 2 (29:27):
Canf, I am canf.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
That was an okay joke , All right.
What was your number one?
Speaker 2 (29:33):
We skipped number two .
Speaker 1 (29:34):
Did we.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
I just talked a lot about number three and four.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
All right, number two non-feminist moments.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
I feel like weird Barbie being called the weird
Barbie.
Like I know they apologize itfor a later, but I'm like what's
so weird about her?
She's just got short hair.
Like sure she had drawing onher face but she didn't.
Later in the movie she was justlike smart, wise, had answers
to questions, accepted peoplethat were on the fringes.
(30:03):
I don't understand how she's aweird Barbie.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
There was something she said, though, that was like
you either become really weirdor you're brainwashed.
Do you remember that line?
Speaker 2 (30:13):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
That was a stupid line.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
Yeah, again, it's just saying like you're this or
you're that and I think anyattempt to just say that these
are the two options.
And that's what the movie doesover and over again.
It says men can either be superviolent or submissive.
They can be over-dominating orsubmissive.
Speaker 1 (30:30):
They're either bros or they're insecure.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
Yeah, it's like where's the middle ground?
Speaker 1 (30:34):
Yeah, they're rapists or they're incels.
There's no in-between, there'sno gray area in this movie.
Everything is just black orwhite.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
Yeah, and if I was to think of number one and I will
get to stuff that I did likeabout the movie too, but number
one, I think again it kind oflinks number three.
But the fact that, like, ifstereotypical Barbie is supposed
to represent the stereotypical,if Barbies represent women and
stereotypical Barbie is supposedto represent like a
(31:05):
stereotypical woman and herhaving serious thoughts and her
having thoughts about death oranything serious, is a problem
and the world is melting whenshe has these complex thoughts.
And even later, oh my gosh, I'mjust remembering something as
I'm speaking, when they'retalking about this other Spanish
(31:28):
lady, the main character, beingweird and twisted and saying
that she's dark and she's gotall these thoughts so she
doesn't fit the mould of being awoman.
And then, in order to integrateand deal with all of this, they
decide to make a whole list ofBarbies with mental health
issues and they have depressionBarbie and they represent
(31:49):
depression Barbie as somebodywho is eating on the couch and
wearing tracks, pants for sevendays, checks the Instagram all
the time, and I just thoughtagain, it's just defining and a
little bit ridiculous.
There are plenty of highfunctioning people with
depression.
There are plenty of ways thatpeople can have mental health
(32:11):
disorders where they don't looklike that or act like that.
Again, I think it's not a veryliberating message to kind of
reduce a woman's experience tothat.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
Do you think that the final scene could be considered
anti-feminist?
Speaker 2 (32:28):
Okay, describe which part you mean.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
Well, okay.
The movie ends with Barbiegoing to the gynecologist, so
we're supposed to understandthat now she has a vagina.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
Well, she's become a human.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
Because she's become a human.
It's not explained well at all.
It's never explained.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
I think what's cute is that Ruth tries to explain it
in their Dumbledore moment,like Dumbledore, harry moment,
where they're in this grey cloud.
She's saying you have a choiceyou can go back to Bible and or
you can come into the real worldand embrace humanity.
And that's cute because she'slike choosing imperfection over
perfection.
And that's liberating because,yay, we're all human and we're
(33:10):
imperfect and even someonethat's perfect would choose it.
How liberating.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
So you don't consider it anti-feminist that like she
becomes liberated at the end bygoing to the gynecologist, so
she's now defined by her femalegenitals.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
Interesting.
I saw it as I mean, I wasexpecting her to get a job,
because that's usually like okay, she's rejected.
The story of I have to end upwith a guy, my programming was
like, okay, the next thing islike to choose the career over
the guy.
So I was expecting her to gofor like a job interview.
But then she's obviously goingto the gynecologist, which I saw
(33:45):
is kind of cute because she'staking interest in her body and
she's obviously thinking abouther own health.
But I can, I can see the wholethe thought of her being defined
by her genitalia in that moment.
Yeah, so I thought it was aninteresting ending.
It didn't say that much to mereally.
Speaker 1 (34:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:05):
Except that she's taking responsibility for her,
her sexual health or herpersonal wellbeing, which is
good, I guess.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
You know, someone brought up to me.
They were like I thought thismovie would be fun and charming,
like disenchanted.
Did you ever say disenchanted?
Speaker 2 (34:21):
No, really Should we watch it.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
Well, it'd be better than this.
Yeah, it's like Cinderella.
I think it's Cinderella.
It's one of the Disneyprincesses essentially escaping
Disney in like animated, andgoing into the real world and
her and the prince and all theother characters go in the real
world and it's like a fishy outof water kind of story.
It's what this could have been.
Speaker 2 (34:44):
Should we look at the camera, babies?
That where the people are.
Hey people, sorry.
Speaker 1 (34:49):
I just like looking at you.
Yeah, I'm just kidding, I'mjust kidding.
Speaker 2 (34:59):
Where I see love, she sees a friend.
Speaker 1 (35:01):
You want to beat you off.
Speaker 2 (35:04):
So yeah, disenchanted , better Is that.
Speaker 1 (35:08):
Well, yeah, I mean, there's lots of things I'd
rather watch or do over thisfilm.
Speaker 2 (35:14):
Does it?
Yeah, you saw it twice For you.
Hey, I was saying it for you sothat we could do this.
Yeah, that's love, isn't it?
Speaker 1 (35:25):
Didn't work out well for me on my end.
Speaker 2 (35:29):
Look, I've got to say disenchanted, and with
everybody falling in love.
I don't remember, but that wasone good thing about Barbie.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
That disenchanted has a much simpler message and it
was before the woke era ofHollywood, so I doubt it went
down the whole path of thisbullshit went through.
I doubt that the princess goesto the real world and all the
construction workers are likehey, baby, take off that dress
and let me have sex with you.
I don't think that happens indisengaged.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
No, I don't think.
It sounds like it's more in forchildren.
Look, I have to say it was agood message how Bobby didn't
end up, because even willferrell, he goes.
Okay, we need an ending, right,the ending.
All right, bobby and Ken end uptogether.
That's the ending.
Speaker 1 (36:15):
Yeah, this movie is so lazy that it just has
characters announce what theending should be.
They just go.
What should the ending be, guys, I don't know what should we
end up with Bobby and Kentogether?
And then the characters arefighting over the ending of the
movie and I'm just like just end, just end.
Speaker 2 (36:36):
There were some bits that did drag on a little bit.
What did you think of thecharacter Alan?
Speaker 1 (36:41):
He was kind of useless, pointless, don't know
what they were trying tocommunicate with that character.
Speaker 2 (36:49):
I think he represented a gay guy, don't you
think?
Or like, just like anon-defined, you know, a man
that isn't masculine and is alittle bit of a question mark.
Speaker 1 (36:59):
Oh, because he was the only good guy.
Speaker 2 (37:02):
No, because he was the only one that wasn't called
Ken.
Speaker 1 (37:04):
So the movie's trying to say that gay guys are the
only good guys, becauseheterosexual men obviously
rapists and serial killers.
Speaker 2 (37:13):
Ken was heterosexual and he can I tell you what, for
those of you at home in Seoul,means.
Speaker 1 (37:21):
Involuntarily celibate.
Yeah, so like a guy that can'tis having trouble trying to have
sex with women.
Speaker 2 (37:28):
Because they don't.
They're not interested.
Speaker 1 (37:30):
Yeah, because the women aren't interested, because
they're like low value,whatever.
Whatever stereotypical thingyou think.
They live in their basement,they never coming out, they play
World of Warcraft all the time,whatever kind of stereotype.
Speaker 2 (37:43):
Okay, One of the most touching, moving moments of the
whole film for me.
Do you want to know what it was?
Was it Ken it was a Ken momentoh.
Speaker 1 (37:53):
I am Ken enough, was it that?
Speaker 2 (37:54):
It was the moment.
Oh, it gets me now when I thinkabout it.
It was when Ken and Barbiefighting.
You know, she's come back andhe's basically I can't remember
exactly what happens, but hecalls out and says to her you
failed me, right.
Speaker 1 (38:13):
Oh, yeah, that actually yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:14):
Yeah, they're kind of fighting and saying, like
Barbie was saying, I failed theworld, I failed the world and
Peter Huck has failed somepeople.
Blah, blah, blah.
And then Ken just breaks downand he's like no, you failed me
and I just got goosebumps andyou could just see his pain in
that moment, the browness andthe dismissiveness and the
(38:38):
selfishness and all the stuffthat he was doing.
It was because he was so hurtthat she didn't value him and
didn't respect him and didn'tthink he was significant.
And I thought that was the mostpowerful part of the movie.
That was really showing thecrux of the problem here that
when men and women don't valueeach other and respect each
other, each of them are going todo crazy stuff that is just
(39:02):
going to cause hurt and pain foreverybody.
Speaker 1 (39:04):
Yeah, and I can get behind that message.
That's a good message that waslost in the shuffle of all this
other crap.
But it's buried under all thiscringe dialogue and manhating
moments and womanhating moments.
And yeah, it's just buriedunderneath there.
But like that's why I said toyou, if they made a Ken movie
(39:26):
and it was just like that story,that could have been
interesting.
Speaker 2 (39:31):
Do you think people would have an issue with you
saying that the Barbie movieshould have been a Ken movie?
Speaker 1 (39:37):
No, because I'm saying that because Ken was the
only fun, interesting aspect ofthe whole movie was Ken.
He was the only interestingcharacter for me because there
was somewhere for the characterto go and to learn.
And he was more endearingbecause of Ryan Gosling.
He was likable, he wassympathetic, whereas I didn't
(39:59):
care about Barbie's journey orstruggles at all.
I didn't care when thecorporation was chasing her down
, when they said to her we wantto just put you in a box.
I didn't care about anythingshe was going through.
Speaker 2 (40:13):
Well, I mean, her journey wasn't that substantial,
to be honest.
I mean you feel sorry for herbecause she's upset, but she
doesn't want cellular, shedoesn't want to have thoughts of
death.
She's having to face thingsthat are human, but she's really
only scratching the surface.
They're very, very small thingsthat she's having to deal with.
(40:33):
Obviously she has to deal withbeing thrown out of a house, but
I can't just remember him, butKen's character.
He's endearing, he's vulnerable, he's tortured.
We can relate to his struggles.
He actually depicts the humanstruggles really well.
Speaker 1 (40:52):
Make a Ken movie.
I mean, the movie made a jokeabout them making a Ken movie,
so they probably are going tomake a Ken movie.
I don't know how that wouldwork, because who's going to
watch it?
Speaker 2 (41:05):
I don't think she hates men.
Speaker 1 (41:07):
I think she definitely hates men.
Speaker 2 (41:09):
I think she tried to make a point that she made that
point about like it's okay tocry.
Barbie told Ken it was okay tocry, that was a good thing, but
he did appear to be quitepathetic, like her depiction of
him was not empowering for youngmen.
Speaker 1 (41:24):
It's purely just because Ryan Gosling is a good
actor that anything is goodabout Ken.
If any other actor was tohandle that character, he would
have been probably I don't knowmaybe greater girl.
We didn't even want RyanGosling, maybe she did want
someone more pathetic to playthe character so she could crush
men and be like oh you men,you're all little pawns in my
(41:49):
game, in my world of Barbie,because women are better.
Speaker 2 (41:55):
Oh gosh, Look, women are pretty good.
I'm not going to lie.
Speaker 1 (41:59):
I love women.
I just think that you can makea movie that celebrates women
without putting shit on men.
I think there's lots that canbe done to celebrate women
without shitting on men.
Speaker 2 (42:11):
Yeah and look, you can say, oh, but it's just
supposed to be a bit of fun, butno, it's deliberately trying to
make some social, culturalstatements.
Speaker 1 (42:21):
If this movie wasn't targeted at children then I
would say, oh, it's just a bitof fun, it's just a stupid movie
.
But when you target childrenand this movie, both times that
we saw it in the cinemas therewere kids commercials playing
before the film.
So clearly this was beingtargeted to children.
So this is all part of someagenda, some propaganda, that
(42:45):
they want to fill youngchildren's minds with this shit.
So that's my problem with it.
If the movie was like M and itwas made for it was obviously
targeted, I would just be like,oh, it's just some more woke
garbage.
Speaker 2 (42:58):
What is it rated I?
Speaker 1 (42:59):
think it's rated PG.
Speaker 2 (43:01):
Should I check that.
Speaker 1 (43:02):
You can check that.
I mean I'm looking at thepreviews and the way that the
marketing and everything hasbeen targeting it's appealing to
children.
Speaker 2 (43:11):
Children are going to see it.
Speaker 1 (43:12):
Children are going to see it with their mums and
their mums are probably.
Speaker 2 (43:16):
PG.
So parental guidance isrecommended because it's got
suggestive references.
Speaker 1 (43:22):
That just reminded me of something else.
Speaker 2 (43:25):
What.
Speaker 1 (43:26):
Another line from the movie that's super cringe and
also problematic, being thatit's appealing to children.
There's a line where the weirdBarbie says oh, you're with that
, ken, right?
Oh, I'd love to see what boldshe's got under those shorts.
Speaker 2 (43:43):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (43:44):
So it's okay to objectify men and talk about
their privates, but if the roleswere reversed and that line was
applying to Margot Robbie, oh,that would not work.
Speaker 2 (43:59):
Look, I think it's a bit of a washing machine.
Let's be honest, it's a bit ofa washing machine.
I don't think it holds thesolution for male, female
empowerment.
I think the gender wars I thinkthe movie shows that the gender
wars that happen, there's onewinner and that winner is
capitalism and the economy andthe toy production companies and
(44:21):
all the shops.
Speaker 1 (44:23):
Well, that's what it's all about really.
I mean, it's all aboutHollywood trying to make people,
men and women hate each otheras much as possible so that they
can be alone and miserable, sothat they can buy more shit that
they don't need fueling theconsumerism which is ironic
because this movie even mentionsthat Barbie herself is some
(44:45):
fascist.
That reinforces consumerism andall that crap, but this movie
itself is just more of thatanyway.
Speaker 2 (44:54):
Trying to leave it on a note where, like the cute
moments, was there any cutemoments we can leave people with
?
Speaker 1 (45:02):
Maybe we'll just fade out with the arm.
Just kins, I'm just Ken and Ihate this film.
You should not watch this, andI'm so glad I don't have to talk
about this anymore.
I'm just Ken, where I'm down,she's seen, she's seen.
(45:27):
I'm so disappointed in you.
Oh my God.
Speaker 2 (45:35):
Yeah, I've got a few more points, but I feel like
we've made our points, haven'twe?
Speaker 1 (45:41):
Yeah, let's wrap it up.
Let's wrap it up before theymake Barbie too.
Speaker 2 (45:45):
Oh, they'll probably be a Barbie too.
Speaker 1 (45:47):
I know they will be.
Speaker 2 (45:48):
I'm probably gonna have to say it.
Speaker 1 (45:50):
Well, hopefully there's not as much hype for a
Barbie too.
Speaker 2 (45:54):
There'll be more.
Speaker 1 (45:55):
There shouldn't be more hype for a Barbie too,
because now everyone knows thatBarbie is really trash.
Speaker 2 (46:02):
No.
Speaker 1 (46:03):
And it was just overhyped.
Speaker 2 (46:05):
People loved it.
Speaker 1 (46:06):
I have not found one woman that said they liked it.
When I post on social media, Iget comments.
Well, I mostly got mencommenting being like, oh, did
you actually watch that?
I was like, yeah, I had towatch it.
I got one woman that sent melike a skull.
I don't know what the hell shewas trying to say to that.
I don't know if that was like amessage like you're going to
die for hating on Barbie.
Speaker 2 (46:29):
Well, it's one of those kind of thought prisons,
because a lot of people aresaying if you hate the movie,
that you are anti-feminist.
So you can't really win in thatway.
Speaker 1 (46:42):
Any movie where someone says if you hate this,
then you're this.
I always just hate the moviebecause I'm like fine and hate
the movie.
What are you going to do aboutit?
Speaker 2 (46:52):
Yeah, it's hard because it doesn't give people
the space to have criticalthinking and thought around
things.
Speaker 1 (46:59):
Well, at the end of the day, it's a movie.
If people can't accept people'sopinions of a movie, then
there's no chance for us goingforward growing as a society,
because that means that we'renot accepting of other opinions,
values.
Speaker 2 (47:14):
Yeah, and we need to be able to have conversations
and share opinions so that wecan see what the opposite sex or
other people are thinking andfeeling about reality, because
the truth is, people are goingto have a different experience
of reality and we need to haveconversations to find out what
other people's experience ofreality is, instead of trying to
be like, no, this is the onlyreality.
(47:36):
That's my final point.
Speaker 1 (47:38):
Yeah, watch Openheimer instead.
Let's end on that.
All right, that's it for me.
I am Ken enough.
Speaker 2 (47:47):
You are Ken enough.
Speaker 1 (47:48):
All right, if you enjoyed the show, please like,
share and subscribe and checkout more videos from this
channel.
That's me, guys.
I'm just kidding, I'm dead.
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