Transform your approach to conflict resolution with insights from Karleene, a seasoned hostage negotiator. Discover the techniques that Karleene uses to navigate everyday conflicts, drawn from her personal experiences balancing a household with a brain-injured husband and seven children. You’ll uncover the five foundational principles she swears by—curiosity, attitude, master listening, connection, and reframing—to control emotional reactions and maintain constructive dialogue.
Explore the nuanced dynamics of parenting styles and conflict resolution in our discussion. We delve into the balance between authoritative and nurturing approaches, highlighting the importance of understanding and addressing inner conflicts before they manifest outwardly. Karleene’s professional insights and personal anecdotes illustrate the transformative power of ongoing dialogue and open communication in navigating fears and insecurities, and fostering healthier relationships.
In a heartfelt chapter, Karleene shares a pivotal moment of self-reflection during a marriage crisis, underscoring the importance of vulnerability and open communication. Learn how a simple 15-minute conversation can foster deeper connections and understanding in your relationships. Plus, explore the valuable resources and training programs available on Karleene Savage's website, designed to enhance your parenting skills and personal growth. This episode is packed with practical tips and enlightening stories to help you navigate midlife with grace and resilience.
You can find Karleene at:
www.karleensavage.com/parents
Head to www.movingthroughmidlife. com to learn more
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Welcome to Moving Through Midlife.
I am your host, courtney, apersonal trainer and movement
specialist who wants to help youmove through midlife with more
grace.
Each week, we will discuss wayswe can show up better for
ourselves and our childrenwithout the burnout, children
(00:26):
without the burnout.
We will focus on overall healththrough habit stacking to help
increase energy, providemovement snacks to help you move
more throughout the day, whilealso moving your body more, and
learn from professionals onmoving through midlife with ease
so that you can feel confidentwith aging.
Gracefully, grab your earbudsand join me on a leisurely walk
while we discuss moving throughmidlife.
(00:48):
Today, I am speaking withCarlene about the art of
conflict resolution in youreveryday life.
She is a certified hostagenegotiator who shares her unique
experience of managing ahousehold with a brain-injured
husband and raising sevenchildren.
She is here to share with uscomponents of effective conflict
(01:13):
resolution to help deal withteenage independence and
everyday emotional reactions.
This is a great conversationand I really hope you enjoy it.
Hi, carlene, how are you today?
Yeah, I'm so good.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
And we had a pre-call and that was even fire.
That was good.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
I am excited to have you on because you are here to
share about.
Spoken about differentsituations.
I saw that you were on MSNBCtalking about the hostage
situation that occurred in Gaza,so you've been in situations
where you have helped peoplewith hostage negotiations.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Let me be clear.
I'm certainly in hostagenegotiations.
I have not been on a livehostage situation, which a lot
of us haven't, but there'scertain agencies that must be
trained in it.
I have not been on a livehostage situation, which a lot
of us haven't, but we there'scertain agencies that must be
trained in it.
I'm not one of the agencies.
So your, your counterterrorism,your FBI, your SWAT teams, your
police departments, they haveto have somebody trained to
(02:17):
handle those things.
But hostage, hostage situationsdon't happen everywhere, but
we're certified in it.
So I go to the same, all thesame things, and then I brought
it to the realm of the work I do.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
So and you're able to then talk about conflict
resolution and things that youcan do to help among other
things.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Yeah, yeah, okay, crisis negotiations, yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
Okay, and what?
What got you started in this?
Speaker 2 (02:46):
My, my own, my own hot mess.
I have a husband who has abrain injury.
That happened about 30 yearsago.
I have seven children.
We've taken in teen, otherteenagers, we've had people
living with us and nobody comeswith their basket, their party
(03:06):
basket.
Everybody's coming with theirbaggage.
I've got to understand thedifference between party baskets
and baggage, anyway.
So they come and really, at theend of the day, it's how the
people leave our home, which ispretty interesting as I look at
it over time.
(03:27):
And so you and I are having aconversation about conflict, but
it happens everywhere.
So, but I came to it by my, myown experiences.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
So Okay, and I was watching your TED talk and you
had mentioned your husband'sinjuries and how you had come
about this and I thought it wasinteresting when you started
talking about this conflictresolution and there were, you
mentioned five things that youneed to think about when you go
(04:01):
into conflict resolution,correct?
Can you go over the five thingsreally quickly for me?
Speaker 2 (04:07):
One of them is curiosity.
It's a certain kind ofcuriosity.
Next one is attitude, which isstand there, be with it, but
don't fix it.
Next one is master listening,which is story mapping, or
filling in the gaps in hostility, filling in the gaps of their
storytelling.
The next one is connection it'sa way to make sure that they're
(04:32):
receiving the message, thatyou're getting it.
And the last one is reframing,which is taking all the
information and then asking aquestion about how are we going
to fix this?
How is it going to look ifwe're both happy in this
situation?
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Okay, and before we spoke, or before we came on here
, we spoke privately and there'stwo things I want to kind of
discuss with you, the firstbeing in regard to conflict
resolution with our children,and especially during these teen
(05:07):
years, when our kids are reallystarting to create some
dependence and wanting to reallykind of listen to their inner
self you know they start to pushback against us and then also a
conversation that we spokeabout, which is also the
(05:27):
conflict within our own head.
So I do want to start with ourchildren, first, our teens,
because I thought it wasinteresting during your TED Talk
, you had mentioned somethingabout how we show emotion and
how we really should try torefrain from showing our emotion
(05:47):
while we're listening to ourchild speak about certain things
, and I was a little taken abackby that, because I am very
animated when I communicate, I'msure, with my children.
So can you tell me, like, whatexactly you meant by that?
Speaker 2 (06:06):
Sure, I am really animated too, and you'll.
You'll see exactly what I'mthinking right on my face, and I
think that that's the reason inwhen you're talking about
mediation and crisis and hostage, you cannot show the emotion.
However, how you translate thatin your personal life is that
(06:31):
when you frown when somebody issaying you hurt my feelings or
you defend, you get that shockedlook on your face.
When they say you said that yousaid something horrible to me.
When you get that shocked lookon their face, it will change
their story.
It will become defensiveinstantly and then try and
figure out what am I going tosay to defend my position, and
(06:54):
then it's going to go into atailspin.
And so that's what I'm talkingabout.
When you're in conflict, youneed to be able to learn
conflict.
You need to be able to learn.
Do exceptional learning notabout agenda, not about
expressing.
You know you said that youdon't like me not expressing
that whole.
(07:14):
You know getting ticked offwith somebody.
It is about holding the spaceso you can learn about why
they're taking that position.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
So how do we do this when we are dealing with our own
emotions?
Because it's really hard, Imean.
I think in certain situations,if you are not a part of that
situation, you may not have theemotion with it, but when it's
your own household and you'reworking with child and who is
(07:48):
your everything I mean truly,they are everything to you how,
how do you go about doing that,to where you have to put your
emotions aside?
Is there a way that we can workthrough that?
Speaker 2 (08:07):
Okay.
So I totally get this.
This is a tough world.
It is when it is you.
When it is your world, it istough, no joke.
But then my question is youmade the comment and your
listeners are.
I think it's a profoundquestion, and, and your
listeners are doing the same,wait a minute, how do you, how
do I do it in my own life?
Are you kidding?
(08:28):
That really made me angry.
They're accusing me or they'redoing this, or I'm scared.
Okay, then admit that.
Okay, the problem is is thatwe're not admitting that.
We're not admitting oh, thathurt.
Oh, you hurt my feelings.
Oh, I'm scared, oh, I'm tooafraid to lose you.
(08:48):
Oh, we're not saying thosewords.
What we're doing is going.
Now imagine I'm talking to myhead oh my gosh, I'm so afraid
to lose you.
You can't go, and that's theway it looks.
We're not discussing our truth,and that's the problem.
So, when we're getting involved,we love our kids, we do all
(09:09):
these things.
Do you love them enough to getreal about this?
Do you love them enough to makethem the important person in
the room and not you?
Do we love them?
And that's a problem, and I saythat very boldly because people
are going to go.
Of course I love my child.
I will put them first, will you?
Will you in the conflict?
Do we love them?
And that's a problem, and I saythat very boldly because people
(09:30):
are going to go.
Well, of course I love my child.
I will put them first, will you?
Will you in the conflict?
Will you to the point thatyou're going to say, ah, and
tears streaming down your face?
That crushed me.
And you do that because if youcan do that before you react,
because if you can do thatbefore you react, then you are
truthful.
And the problem is is that whenwe say we can't do it in our own
lives, it's too hard and it'sbecause there's a conversation
(09:57):
that happens before you actuallyopen your mouth.
It's the conversation in yourhead, which is what you and I
were talking about.
It's a conversation in yourhead and sometimes, like I've
heard dad say, I can't say that.
I'm in charge of the house,this is my domain.
I've heard those things said.
So they're not going to saytruth, they're going to say
reaction.
So which is it that you'redoing?
(10:18):
Are you reacting or are youspeaking truth?
And so it's up to you to decide.
Is it hard?
Yes, do you love your children?
Yes, will you put your childrenfirst in the situation?
If you're willing to say yes tothat, then what you're willing
to do is be truthful about thespace.
(10:39):
And what that means is I justhad this conversation with this
other other woman yesterday andshe was saying if my mom, if
she's feeling, if she's feelingthis and she can't, just she
just can't do it, then thenthat's not wrong.
She can't do it.
And she said so why would youexpect her to?
(11:01):
Why do we, should we expectthem to?
And I, I said why was she?
Why was she scared?
And she went oh, wait a minute.
And I said that's where itbegins.
It doesn't begin when it comesout of our mouth.
It began up here.
So when you are scared,snapping, why are you snapping?
Why are you snapping at yourkid?
(11:24):
You're, you know your teenager.
Tell that truth and then say nowI'm mad.
But a lot of times what we dois we would go I'm mad, how dare
you?
You don't speak to me that way.
And I would tell my kids youcan speak to me, you can tell me
anything, just do it withrespect, don't shred me, but
(11:45):
tell me.
So.
It would be that premise that Iwould go in at.
So another one would be I wouldsit there and I'd go, oh my
gosh, ouch.
Or I'd instantly weep Like I'veonly had one child tell me I
hate you one time in their life.
(12:06):
And how many of us people say Ihear it all the time, oh my
gosh, then do you tell the truth, do you?
Are you that parent?
So the first.
When my child did it, she wasthree years old.
Now think about it.
Are we going to hold athree-year-old accountable?
Are we going to hold ourselvesaccountable in the moment?
(12:27):
So she went hauling upstairs.
She'd been in a flux, there'dbeen a lot of changes in her
life, she was stressed I get itThree years old.
And some people are going tosay, oh my gosh, that's just
terrible that you would holdthem three years old.
She's able to understandbecause she was crying and
screaming.
So something's coming.
(12:49):
If I'm not willing to own up toit and answer that, then that's
on me.
So she went hauling upstairs.
I hate you.
I went hauling after her and Igrabbed her like grabbed her.
Tears streaming down my faceand I said that crushed me.
(13:10):
Why would you say that I loveyou.
You mean more to me thananything and you, even though
she can't understand everyconceptual thing, she heard my
heart and I said that crushed me.
If you are unhappy, tell me.
If you're angry, tell me.
(13:32):
If you're mad, tell me, and Ishowed her.
If you feel this way, tell me,but don't scream that.
And I've never heard it again,ever.
I never heard it out of ourother children.
The thing is is that I waswilling to stand in the truth
for the minute.
I was willing to show myself.
(13:54):
Are we willing to do that asparents?
I have parents that say I don'tthink I can do that.
Okay, then what does that meanfor you?
Okay, there's a price.
There's going to be a price,right?
Speaker 1 (14:11):
So anyway, it's a lot .
Well, I'm wondering cause I'mthinking.
I I feel like I do that with mychildren.
You do what I tell them mytruths.
Oh yeah, I mean, I'm definitelya very more probably, more
(14:37):
probably, they probably aretired of hearing my truth with
it.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
Um, but I would assume that some of this is due
to the authoritative parentingstyle where they might be
dealing with that, or do you seeit with it depends on the
situation and it depends ontheir uh, the tenor at which
they go, but I think you'rereferring to a three-year-old
looking at an adult reactingthat way, coming off as more you
(15:00):
know this like overarching, youknow brooding, but the thing is
, is that we have to be carefulthat when people say things like
this, like I'm saying that, wedon't nutshell them into that's
all.
They are Right, okay.
So yes, let me.
Let me continue, then, for you,for you and your listeners,
(15:21):
that may come off asauthoritarian, like overbearing.
That may come off, and I cansee that.
However, then you don't.
What you don't see is thecuddling, the, how I took her to
the couch and we sat down, howI soothed her, how we stood, the
my tone changed, how it becamemore soothing and nurturing.
(15:44):
The thing is, is that when youlook at somebody like me who
does the work I do, you, you caneasily go.
She's overbearing and I cantotally get it, but that means
the narrow-mindedness ofsomebody who can think that
without ever asking, there's theconflict and that's why the
work I do matters, because Iteach.
(16:06):
That's curiosity.
You don't make an assumption.
It's a good, it's a goodquestion, and I'm not saying
that, but all listeners aregoing to listen through that
same kind or similar ears.
So that is a very relevant andgood approach and question.
So you're asking so isn't thatkind of you know, overbearing
(16:28):
and scary and intimidating?
Yeah, it totally could be if Ileft it there Just like, just
like if I say I am so scaredyou're going to die.
That's fearful, unless youcontinue the conversation, right
.
So so that's the point ofconflict resolution, it's
(16:52):
continuing the conversation.
Sometimes we get so pigeonholedinto an idea, into an
assumption, into an you know, ifshe does it this way, then one
way, if she does it one way, shedoes it that way all the time,
and that's simply not the case.
So that's the beauty of theconflict resolution is that you
keep moving.
(17:12):
It may have come off for peopleas that, but my daughter had
three years with me.
She has seen me be strong, shehas seen me be soft, she has
seen me be questioning, she hasseen me be insecure.
So it's not like that is theday she first saw me.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
Right, and I wasn't meaning you.
No, no, I was meaning the onewhen you said the people who say
they can't show their feelingsto their child, Because I feel
like you did show your feelings,but when you made the comment
you said some people say theycan't do that.
That's where I was thinking.
(17:56):
Are those the authoritativefigures that?
Don't that's like I'm not goingto show my emotion.
I can't say that you hurt myfeelings.
I wouldn't know in thatparticular situation that I was
talking about.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
I wouldn't know in that particular situation that I
was talking about, I think itwas more fear-based.
Okay, she was afraid to exposeand it wasn't an overbearing.
I can be overbearing, for sure,but in that situation I don't
think that was overbearing.
I think she was scared andinstead of saying I'm scared
(18:28):
because I just don't think Ihave the bandwidth, I don't
think I can stand up next onthat.
That is a completely differentthing and you continue, like I'm
saying, continue thatconversation to figure it out.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
Right, okay.
So, yeah, I also wanted to gointo the statement where you
said it's all in our head,because I think this is one
thing, that, whether it is aconflict resolution with a teen,
or dealing with our own innervoice and some of the things
(19:00):
that we're dealing with in thismidlife area, I think what you
had mentioned is so importantand it's how we begin to think
about it before anything is everexpressed.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
So can you?
Speaker 1 (19:17):
talk to me like one.
How, how can we, how do wechange that Say, say that again.
What do we do to start tochange that voice in our head?
This you know, this feeling ofhaving to immediately think
about, like you said, theconflict within your own head.
(19:40):
How do we work through?
Speaker 2 (19:43):
this.
So the thing that we were youand I were talking about
beforehand just to bring it upto the where I was at was a lot
of people in the conflict spacenot all conflict people are
created equal, okay, and a lotof people in the conflict space
will say conflict is a challengeor a situation between you and
(20:05):
me, and I've never agreed withthat.
Again, pointing out thatconflict people are not all the
same, they're not created equal,because I believe conflict is
what happens in your own head,in public view.
(20:27):
That's when conflict happens.
That's the resolution we'retrying to get to, and I call BS.
It's not, that's other stuff,that's what we spew after we've
already had the conflict in ourhead.
So, for example, something issuper simple.
We're dealing with midlife,right?
So simple.
When you get up and you look inthe mirror, are you 18 anymore?
(20:52):
You know what I mean.
And how do you feel about thatwoman, right?
How do you feel?
Speaker 1 (20:59):
right, yeah, no, it's very, I want to say, depressing
, but it's very shocking becauseyou don't feel you may not feel
that way inside, and then youlook at yourself and you're like
, oh okay, I'm not feeling thatI'm not feeling what's looking
back at me.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
But here's the thing.
Okay, so this is how it begins.
You did that, not you.
You did that when you looked inthe mirror.
You got this opinion, you hadthis self-talk, and then you
went outside, or outside of thatbathroom door, and you went and
did breakfast.
What are you doing duringbreakfast?
I shouldn't eat this, I should.
I'm going to make this foreverybody.
(21:36):
Why isn't everybody happy?
Everybody needs to be great.
This is a great day.
Or your husband comes out and hesays something that sets you
off and it's like but where didit begin?
And then what you do is you'regoing to go out in the world.
You're going to go to thegrocery store.
Somebody cut you off in theparking lot or somebody got in
front of you in line.
Now you're ticked off even more, and this is just a maddening
(21:57):
cycle.
So what we've done is that wetake that and we put it out in
the world.
We took that stuff and we putit out in the world, but what we
do is we blame it on.
That's the conflict.
It's the conflict of the personthat cut me off.
It's the conflict that myhusband mouthed off to me and
triggered me.
It's the conflict that my teensaid something back to me.
(22:18):
But really, the conflict ishappening in your own head first
.
That's where it all began.
Whether it is there's such apain in the butt I don't want to
deal with my 16-year-old todaysuch a pain in the butt, I'm so
tired of what he's doing rightnow in the family and we
developed that conflict right inour head.
And then we went out and wegreeted him and it's like, oh,
(22:42):
having a nice day, okay, well,I'm going to have a nice day.
And then we tell the world andtell people it's not, it's not
my problem, it's their problem.
No, no, it was my problem first.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
Because when I have trouble with people.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
It's like it started here, or it started days ago, or
it started last year.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
Well, and we all create our own stories, so we've
already come into the situationcreating our own story.
When you said the husband, Ithink to myself sometimes, like
things, that I think where I'mlike, oh, you know he, he can't
stand to look at this faceeither.
You know, I'm just saying like,you know, you feel like, oh,
you're getting older and it's Iwonder how he is looking at me.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
And yes, or or you say no wonder men have affairs,
and yes, or or you say no wondermen have affairs.
Look at me, look at what he'slooking at.
You know how's he dealing withthis?
I'm 50 pounds overweight.
You, these are the things thatyou do to yourself and we're
doing it constantly.
We are just torturing ourselvesconstantly and then we go out
(23:49):
in the world and go.
It's not my problem, it's theirproblem.
They're the ones with theattitude problem.
I can't even believe thatthey're even thinking.
It's me.
You know what?
The way I look at the world, Ilook at the world as I choose to
be happy.
That's the way I am.
That's why I show up and you'regoing.
You know, no, no, no.
There's a few things that aretrue, that are giveaways, you
know.
Like for me, it's like how doyou keep your house?
(24:09):
There's a giveaway of how youfeel.
How do you keep your body?
That's a giveaway of what'sgoing on, not necessarily the
way you feel, because I can holdweight when I'm pissed off at
my husband for a long time whenhe had his head injury it's been
three decades Believe you me, Iheld that.
I held because I had no otherprotection, so I held weight.
(24:29):
You know I mean these.
There's so many dynamics that gointo this, but that's why the
conflict can start right betweenyour two ears.
So what do we do?
What you do is is a few things.
We talk about being satisfiedas women, coming into our own,
you know, having our ownconstitution, that kind of thing
(24:50):
.
But how does it begin?
It begins with these fiveskills.
It begins with curiosity.
Now, are you going to change itin a day?
No, I'm not going to change itin a day.
I'm going to get curious.
I'm going to be an exceptionallearner about who Carlene is.
I'm going to, I'm going to getto know her.
How does she get pissed off?
Why did you get pissed off,carleen?
(25:11):
You don't have to tell.
I don't have to tell anybody.
I just have to be caring enoughto go.
What?
Why did I do?
Oh well, because he's reallygreat and on my nerves because I
don't like the way he chews,cause I don't like that he's
wearing these clothes, that he'schanged his per.
My husband changed hispersonality completely.
Okay, so really I could sitback and go.
(25:33):
I don't even like this guy,right, I can sit there and go.
You bug me.
I didn't even have to wait forreal marriage to last to work.
You know what I'm saying?
I all I had.
We had a brain injury.
So it's like he comes homecompletely different.
He doesn't have the memories ofme that he used to.
I'm pissed off at Becca, right.
So I have to get curious.
Why does that hurt?
(25:53):
It hurts because I have thememories.
It hurts because he doesn'tadore me like he used to.
It hurts because he doesn'tcare about me like he used to.
It hurts because I am a personto him and I have to earn back
(26:16):
his affection because he doesn'tremember me the same way.
So that's curiosity about me.
I'm sharing really boldly.
I've not talked about thisbefore, but the thing is, is
that that's how you figure thisout?
And then you go, what am Igoing to do with it?
Because it's my attitude, myattitude that I'm standing with
(26:38):
it but I'm not going to fix it.
So then I go into.
Okay, my master listening ispiecing things together.
It's filling in the gaps.
Well, you know, I can't.
I can't hold him responsiblefor not remembering me, but dang
.
I want to right, so then I'vegot to have that little mind,
talk with myself and go, okay,but yeah, it's really not cool.
(27:00):
What kind of what does it sayabout you as a human, carlene?
Okay, well, well, was it lovetill death?
Do you part?
Or was it, you know, insickness and health?
Speaker 1 (27:07):
Where are you?
Speaker 2 (27:08):
at.
I mean, all these conversationshave gone through my head as
I've processed who I am, andthen I have to connect with
myself, not connection, as inthis self-care, but connection
as in oh, you know what.
You have a right to feel thatway, carlene.
You're okay.
You can feel it, get mad, giveyourself a season, give yourself
a minute, give yourself sometime to process and feel the
(27:31):
pain, feel the loss.
It's an evolution.
Fyi, it's an evolution, so it'snot going to all happen in a
day, but there are things that Ido, that I go through those
things and that's one of thethings I teach in my deep dive
elevation programs is I talkabout?
This is exactly how I heal,this is exactly how.
Is I talk about?
This is exactly how I heal,this is exactly how, and it all
(27:52):
uses the savage theory ofresolution.
And then what you do is youreframe, which we talked about,
and that is okay.
He doesn't remember you thesame way, but you love him.
So what are you going to doabout that, carlene?
And I remember I was on thebrink of divorce with him and I
had to do some soul searching.
And I had to do some soulsearching and I had to really
(28:13):
make the decision Am I leavingor am I staying?
And so I sat there and then Irealized I had overheard a
friend of mine talking to herhusband and he had done plenty
of offensive, offensive things,plenty and, let's just say,
worthy of being shunned, okay.
(28:35):
And yet I heard her go hey,carlene's going to stay here for
the weekend, is that okay?
And I went what?
Why do you need to ask hispermission?
He's not even here.
You and I have been friendslonger than you two have been
married, and I went through thatwhole conflict, right, right,
and you two have been married,and I went through that whole
conflict, right, right.
But here's the thing is that,as I was processing through my
(28:55):
own personal space, I had to sayso, what are you going to do
about it, carleen?
That's the reframe.
And I realized again, going backthrough my Savage Therapeutic
Resolution, I realized huh,since he's had his brain injury,
I've never fully shown him whoI am.
I've been protector, guardian,keeper, you know, fighter, all
(29:18):
for his situation.
I have been the person whostayed stoic, who stood against
every wind that came, but Inever gave him the kindness of
who I am, the tenderness of whoI am.
And so I said to him I wentback and I said, hey, can we,
(29:40):
you know, can I talk to you?
And he's like, oh great, herewe go.
You know, buckle up, she'sready.
And I said, hey, you know what,if our marriage is going to end,
I'm okay, and I hope you wouldbe okay too, but I'm going to
make sure you know the woman Iam before we finalize.
And that instantly changed me,because it all happened in my
(30:05):
head All the conflict, all thebeating, all the self-beating,
all the beating of him, all thatstuff, all that.
And then what I spewed out intothe world and what I covered up
and what I pretended through.
And so I finally said that tohim and I changed instantly.
And a couple of weeks later hecame back and he goes oh my gosh
(30:26):
, have you always been this way?
You are the most amazing woman.
And I went well, yes, yes, as amatter of fact, I am.
And so we've continued on inthat journey.
But that taught me a few thingsabout the conflict that happens
in my head.
And what are we doing totorture ourself than others?
(30:49):
What are we doing to tortureourself than others and then
covering up so we look likewe've got it all together, and
this is the magic of midlife isthat you have that opportunity
to really start looking atthings.
You know, when you're youngerI'm just surviving sometimes and
(31:12):
you've got to do things.
There too, these same theorieswork, but anyway.
Yeah, that was a long way toanswer your question.
I'm so sorry.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
No, it's great.
It was great For those thatmight be afraid to open up.
At that point, do you haveanything to say to them?
I'm thinking because they'refeeling, because I'm thinking of
your situation, like you'vebeen hurt through everything you
know, like the injury didn'tjust happen to him, it happened
(31:42):
to you as well and you probablywere in a sense, I would assume,
protecting yourself.
So maybe that's where some ofthe where you did not then open
up to really share who you were.
So how do you, do you have anyrecommendation of how we get to?
Okay, finally, like we know,it's within ourselves.
(32:04):
How do you open up to allowyourself to share that
information?
Speaker 2 (32:10):
Sure, and you're right on all those counts, and I
think fear of exposingourselves is very worthy to
discuss.
My question is what have yougot to lose?
Speaker 1 (32:22):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
What is the price of not and what is the cost to In
my world?
Okay, so in mediation,mediation, crisis and hostage we
look at worst case scenario youhave to.
So take any of those worst casescenario you lose a life.
What were you willing to pay tokeep it?
(32:45):
So if your conflict is withinthe walls of your own head and
you're going, my life is crap.
I'm in midlife.
We've lost my relationship withmy spouse because we have been
so taken up with the familysituation, with drama with our
(33:05):
aging parents, with loss of achild.
We have had all of this stuff.
So now I don't even know wherethis person is.
My question is what's it worth?
What's the cost?
What are you at risk of losing?
What's your worst case scenarioand is it worth that?
(33:29):
So I just had a couple talkingto me about breaking up right,
and they're sparring quite a bitand all that stuff, and so when
we were sitting down, I said tothem look, here's the real deal
.
You never leave yourrelationship in a broken state.
If you cannot look at thatperson and think that they are
(33:51):
worthy of something good, thenyou are living in a bad state.
That's a problem I have.
That's my problem If I amtearing and shredding another
person down in order to and thenI give myself permission to
leave and, you know, claim thatthey're this person or that
person and that gives me, youknow, rational, rational
(34:13):
rationale to leave.
That's a mistake.
Now, if I can look at thatperson and go, you know what.
You deserve the best, I deservethe best, or whatever that
conversation is going to be inyour head.
You deserve the best, I wantthe best, or whatever that
conversation is going to be inyour head.
You deserve the best, I wantyou to have that and it's not
(34:36):
this.
So what can we do?
Or you have your ownconversation and your own
situation and walk out of that,whatever that is, whether it's
an argument or whatever but younever leave your conflict saying
that's the reason why, becauseyou're doing it on an emotional
trigger, you're not doing it ofsound mind.
We don't make good decisionswhen we're flying high in
(34:57):
emotions Think about it Hostagetaking.
They're not making gooddecisions.
So you need to have somebodycome in that's going to talk to
you more about realism, moreabout what is what is really at
stake here, man, and that's whatthey do in a hostage situation
they find out who is the wife,who are the kids, how close is
he to them, who is the trigger,what's going to make him pull or
(35:20):
make her?
You know what?
How is that going to work?
And they start dissecting whatmatters.
And then they can talk to theperson and say what's at risk
here?
Are you willing to risk allthat for a bunch of strangers in
there?
Is that the price you'rewilling to pay?
And and what are you going tohave after that?
(35:40):
What did you just buy by bytaking lives?
You just bought what.
What did you just buy by takinglives?
You just bought what.
So to bring it down to ourspace by calling it quits, by
saying it's not me, it's justyou, it may be 80% them, but you
still have 20%.
(36:02):
It may be 95% them, you stillhave five percent.
What are you going to do withthe five percent you?
You have not lost power.
You will never lose powerunless you hand it over.
So then you have to work withmy five percent, my 20.
What am I going to do with that?
What's it worth?
What's it cost?
(36:22):
What's the price?
Am I willing to pay it?
So that would be my question toyour answer to your question
Okay, what's it worth?
Speaker 1 (36:32):
I mean I think most people at that point you know
you have nothing to lose, youprobably have already come to
the end of yeah yeah, exactly'tyou.
Speaker 2 (36:44):
Yeah, I have felt I mean you guys, no joke, I mean
I've been stripped of everythingthat mattered.
I.
I know what that looks like, Iknow what it looks to be at the
very bottom and it doesn't haveto be that way.
If I take back and admit thatI've got a piece to play here,
(37:09):
right, even walking out is apiece.
Even say you don't walk out,maybe, maybe you stay in these,
this midlife situation thatyou're maybe not happy with and
I'm not saying everybody'sunhappy with it, I'm just saying
if you are, because I deal inconflict, if you stay in that,
then that's yours.
You stayed there.
(37:30):
If you stay in it and not change, if you stay in it, continue to
be dismissed and ignored.
You chose it, so just know that.
And if you chose it, thenyou've got to embrace that.
If you don't like it, you havepower.
Now I can change a room.
I can change my husband's moodjust by using the Savage Theory
(37:54):
of Resolution.
That's it.
I can change a bad mood into agood mood instantly just by
using those skills.
I can change crazy hostilityinto calm de-escalation using
those skills.
So don't take it lightly Right.
Speaker 1 (38:15):
Can you give us one little tip?
So if someone is dealing withthat situation in their
household, this kind of beinglike a homework assignment for
them, they've hit some sort ofconflict and what would one tip
be for them to work through tochange the room, change the
(38:39):
situation?
Are you talking about instantchange, yeah, yeah, or you know
as close as you can.
Is there one or two things thatthey can do when they find
conflict this week, that theycan create the change?
Speaker 2 (38:56):
Yep, one that will work, and has worked in every
situation, if you use it.
Now, that's a caveat, becausemost people think that this is
way too dumb to use, and they'llalready reason themselves out
of it, okay, so I'm going togive you all the baggage that
(39:17):
you're going to talk yourself tothrow as you talk yourself out
of it.
Speaker 1 (39:23):
But it's that conflict in your own head.
Again, I know conflict in yourown head.
Speaker 2 (39:27):
Okay.
So here's what you do, and Iusually say start with an easy
target, start with somebody thatyou get along with, that's you
don't have a lot of conflictwith.
But let's say you go after thehard stuff A conversation I put
it in my Ted talk, it's the 15minute conversation or the
(39:47):
listening, and what that is is.
You go in and you talk to you,ask someone questions for 15
minutes.
You're going to see your ownshortcomings as well as theirs,
possibly, but you will discoversomething amazing, um, and that
is just ask them questions for15 minutes.
It could be something as simpleas hey, how was your day?
(40:11):
What do you mean how was my day?
Speaker 1 (40:12):
What are you asking me?
How?
Speaker 2 (40:13):
was my day.
You never asked me how my dayis.
Okay, yeah, I get it, but Ijust didn't know if something
had happened today.
You know about well.
I don't know.
I don't know what happenedtoday.
You seem a little grumpy.
I'm like you hungry, or youknow.
Do you just not want to talk tome, or how's that feeling?
Or you could start withsomething easy.
(40:36):
You know, I heard this podcast.
What do you think of this idea?
Do you think that women haveconflict in their own heads
before it comes out of theirmouth?
That would be a simple one andyou sit back and you listen and
then you begin to explore, kindof like what you and I are doing
(40:57):
.
You begin to explore ideas ofthat conversation.
So it could be something assimple as oh, so you do think
that.
You do think not, oh, you dothink women have this conflict
in there, not that one, but it'slike oh, how do you think that
happens?
Where do you think that comesfrom?
Do you think any of that isgeared from childhood or do you
(41:20):
think it's instant?
Do you think that it's impactedby friends, family, neighbors,
kids, and how do you thinkthat's instant?
Do you think that it's impactedby friends, family, neighbors,
kids, and how do you thinkthat's impacted?
Have you experienced that ofyour own self?
What is that?
And you begin to just askquestions.
Here's a few things that you'regoing to discover so that I,
that you know what you'relooking for, what the outcome is
(41:41):
going to look like.
You're going to find out youcan't ask questions.
You don't have enough questionsto ask, right?
You're going to find out thatyou are lacking this like
interest in that person and thenwhat, I don't know what to say,
oh crap.
And you're going to do that.
You're going to find out thatthey may be telling you things
that might go.
Or they might be telling youthings where you go wow, I've
(42:06):
never.
I've been married to you for 20years and I've never heard this
and that's going to be a bigaha.
They may go wow, that feelsreally good.
Or they may just want to hangout with you a little bit longer
, good.
(42:26):
Or they may just want to hangout with you a little bit longer
.
They may start asking youquestions, but the first 15
minutes you hold and you ask,continue asking them questions
and say, yeah, okay, I'll get tothat, but but I was wondering
and that's how you keep movingin that conversation to be
one-sided.
It will also.
What this does is also releasesthe negativity within them, so
(42:47):
it will bring them down towhatever's happening that maybe
you don't know about.
And it'll be a connection.
I did it with my husband and hehad no idea.
It's not a manipulation, it's atool to try and reach somebody
and do help and work.
(43:08):
And so I did it with my husband.
I did this whole thing.
It's called.
I organized what I call lifeplanning conference, where you
go in and you create a 12 monthgoals together.
Well, how do you do that whensomebody doesn't want to spend
time with you?
Okay?
So there's a big whole thing Ido around that.
But I got him there Right andhe was like, okay, I and you
(43:32):
know how men can be right, Idon't want to do this, this is
so boring or silly.
Anyway, I said, just go with it, just go with it, I will take
care of this.
And so we did the whole thing.
I did the 15 minuteconversation and he goes wow,
that was so therapeutic, carleen, can we do that again?
(43:56):
And it was just interesting NowI, I set it up and it was a 15
minute conversation that I saidI just want to ask you a few
questions, and so he said okay,and then he, that was his
reaction afterwards.
You can go about it that way.
You can just simply start witha conversation.
You could simply ask somethingthat's about the world you know,
about something happening inyour community.
(44:18):
Start with that what do youthink of this?
What do you think of this nextthing that's happening?
And start hearing them.
You this, what do you think ofthis next thing that's happening
?
And start hearing them.
You could do it on politics Ifyou have no opinion about it and
hold, you can do it.
Speaker 1 (44:35):
On that, I mean, there's just so many places to
go.
But do it.
That is going to begroundbreaking, yeah, especially
if you're not giving your twocents as well.
Speaker 2 (44:42):
Just go like this, just do this, just hike.
Speaker 1 (44:46):
Can you let our listeners know where they can
find you?
And if you're offering, Ibelieve you're offering
something.
Speaker 2 (44:55):
I am.
So they can go to my website,carleansavagecom slash parents
and they can get on my list todo any parenting stuff.
But if you get on my list atcarlingsavagecom, I share other
trainings.
So like I have a $97 trainingwhere I give you three days of
this stuff and I teach you howto do it and I walk you through
(45:16):
it and we do breakouts andanyway you learn all of that
stuff.
That's epic and so good forpeople.
And that's what I want to do isI want to share the information
with people and I don't, youknow, I kind of go in on this.
My course is just insanelycheap and I've been paid a ton
(45:37):
of money to do these things on abigger level.
But yeah, you need this stuffin your life.
Yeah, I know what it's done forme and yeah, I know what it's
done for me and I guess I knowwhat it's done for my kids.
I know what it's done in themost broken relationships.
I know what it's done inabusive situations.
I know what it's done.
Not that anybody should stay inabusive situations, be done
(45:58):
with that but I can work inthese places and I come to you
sharing that some of that.
So that's how you find me.
Speaker 1 (46:08):
Well, and I think, like you said, you have nothing
to lose at that point.
So, yeah, yeah.
So thank you so much for takingtime out of your day for this
conversation.
I really enjoyed it.
Speaker 2 (46:21):
Courtney, you and I just went off we went outside
the box.
We went everywhere.
Anyway, thank you so much forletting me be here.
Speaker 1 (46:30):
Of course, I hope you enjoyed this episode and found
something to take away to helpyou practice healthier habits,
move more or handle the midlifeand aging with grace.
If you enjoyed this episode,please share it with a friend or
leave us a review to help usreach more moms just like you.
Head to movingthroughmidlifecomto join the free community or
(46:56):
learn how you can move more andfeel better in your daily life.
Welcome to Moving Through Midlife.
I am your host, courtney, apersonal trainer and movement
specialist who wants to help youmove through midlife with more
grace.
Each week, we will discuss wayswe can show up better for
ourselves and our childrenwithout the burnout, children
(00:26):
without the burnout.
We will focus on overall healththrough habit stacking to help
increase energy, providemovement snacks to help you move
more throughout the day, whilealso moving your body more, and
learn from professionals onmoving through midlife with ease
so that you can feel confidentwith aging.
Gracefully, grab your earbudsand join me on a leisurely walk
while we discuss moving throughmidlife.
(00:48):
Today, I am speaking withCarlene about the art of
conflict resolution in youreveryday life.
She is a certified hostagenegotiator who shares her unique
experience of managing ahousehold with a brain-injured
husband and raising sevenchildren.
She is here to share with uscomponents of effective conflict
(01:13):
resolution to help deal withteenage independence and
everyday emotional reactions.
This is a great conversationand I really hope you enjoy it.
Hi, carlene, how are you today?
Yeah, I'm so good.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
And we had a pre-call and that was even fire.
That was good.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
I am excited to have you on because you are here to
share about.
Spoken about differentsituations.
I saw that you were on MSNBCtalking about the hostage
situation that occurred in Gaza,so you've been in situations
where you have helped peoplewith hostage negotiations.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Let me be clear.
I'm certainly in hostagenegotiations.
I have not been on a livehostage situation, which a lot
of us haven't, but there'scertain agencies that must be
trained in it.
I have not been on a livehostage situation, which a lot
of us haven't, but we there'scertain agencies that must be
trained in it.
I'm not one of the agencies.
So your, your counterterrorism,your FBI, your SWAT teams, your
police departments, they haveto have somebody trained to
(02:17):
handle those things.
But hostage, hostage situationsdon't happen everywhere, but
we're certified in it.
So I go to the same, all thesame things, and then I brought
it to the realm of the work I do.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
So and you're able to then talk about conflict
resolution and things that youcan do to help among other
things.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Yeah, yeah, okay, crisis negotiations, yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
Okay, and what?
What got you started in this?
Speaker 2 (02:46):
My, my own, my own hot mess.
I have a husband who has abrain injury.
That happened about 30 yearsago.
I have seven children.
We've taken in teen, otherteenagers, we've had people
living with us and nobody comeswith their basket, their party
(03:06):
basket.
Everybody's coming with theirbaggage.
I've got to understand thedifference between party baskets
and baggage, anyway.
So they come and really, at theend of the day, it's how the
people leave our home, which ispretty interesting as I look at
it over time.
(03:27):
And so you and I are having aconversation about conflict, but
it happens everywhere.
So, but I came to it by my, myown experiences.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
So Okay, and I was watching your TED talk and you
had mentioned your husband'sinjuries and how you had come
about this and I thought it wasinteresting when you started
talking about this conflictresolution and there were, you
mentioned five things that youneed to think about when you go
(04:01):
into conflict resolution,correct?
Can you go over the five thingsreally quickly for me?
Speaker 2 (04:07):
One of them is curiosity.
It's a certain kind ofcuriosity.
Next one is attitude, which isstand there, be with it, but
don't fix it.
Next one is master listening,which is story mapping, or
filling in the gaps in hostility, filling in the gaps of their
storytelling.
The next one is connection it'sa way to make sure that they're
(04:32):
receiving the message, thatyou're getting it.
And the last one is reframing,which is taking all the
information and then asking aquestion about how are we going
to fix this?
How is it going to look ifwe're both happy in this
situation?
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Okay, and before we spoke, or before we came on here
, we spoke privately and there'stwo things I want to kind of
discuss with you, the firstbeing in regard to conflict
resolution with our children,and especially during these teen
(05:07):
years, when our kids are reallystarting to create some
dependence and wanting to reallykind of listen to their inner
self you know they start to pushback against us and then also a
conversation that we spokeabout, which is also the
(05:27):
conflict within our own head.
So I do want to start with ourchildren, first, our teens,
because I thought it wasinteresting during your TED Talk
, you had mentioned somethingabout how we show emotion and
how we really should try torefrain from showing our emotion
(05:47):
while we're listening to ourchild speak about certain things
, and I was a little taken abackby that, because I am very
animated when I communicate, I'msure, with my children.
So can you tell me, like, whatexactly you meant by that?
Speaker 2 (06:06):
Sure, I am really animated too, and you'll.
You'll see exactly what I'mthinking right on my face, and I
think that that's the reason inwhen you're talking about
mediation and crisis and hostage, you cannot show the emotion.
However, how you translate thatin your personal life is that
(06:31):
when you frown when somebody issaying you hurt my feelings or
you defend, you get that shockedlook on your face.
When they say you said that yousaid something horrible to me.
When you get that shocked lookon their face, it will change
their story.
It will become defensiveinstantly and then try and
figure out what am I going tosay to defend my position, and
(06:54):
then it's going to go into atailspin.
And so that's what I'm talkingabout.
When you're in conflict, youneed to be able to learn
conflict.
You need to be able to learn.
Do exceptional learning notabout agenda, not about
expressing.
You know you said that youdon't like me not expressing
that whole.
(07:14):
You know getting ticked offwith somebody.
It is about holding the spaceso you can learn about why
they're taking that position.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
So how do we do this when we are dealing with our own
emotions?
Because it's really hard, Imean.
I think in certain situations,if you are not a part of that
situation, you may not have theemotion with it, but when it's
your own household and you'reworking with child and who is
(07:48):
your everything I mean truly,they are everything to you how,
how do you go about doing that,to where you have to put your
emotions aside?
Is there a way that we can workthrough that?
Speaker 2 (08:07):
Okay.
So I totally get this.
This is a tough world.
It is when it is you.
When it is your world, it istough, no joke.
But then my question is youmade the comment and your
listeners are.
I think it's a profoundquestion, and, and your
listeners are doing the same,wait a minute, how do you, how
do I do it in my own life?
Are you kidding?
(08:28):
That really made me angry.
They're accusing me or they'redoing this, or I'm scared.
Okay, then admit that.
Okay, the problem is is thatwe're not admitting that.
We're not admitting oh, thathurt.
Oh, you hurt my feelings.
Oh, I'm scared, oh, I'm tooafraid to lose you.
(08:48):
Oh, we're not saying thosewords.
What we're doing is going.
Now imagine I'm talking to myhead oh my gosh, I'm so afraid
to lose you.
You can't go, and that's theway it looks.
We're not discussing our truth,and that's the problem.
So, when we're getting involved,we love our kids, we do all
(09:09):
these things.
Do you love them enough to getreal about this?
Do you love them enough to makethem the important person in
the room and not you?
Do we love them?
And that's a problem, and I saythat very boldly because people
are going to go.
Of course I love my child.
I will put them first, will you?
Will you in the conflict?
Do we love them?
And that's a problem, and I saythat very boldly because people
(09:30):
are going to go.
Well, of course I love my child.
I will put them first, will you?
Will you in the conflict?
Will you to the point thatyou're going to say, ah, and
tears streaming down your face?
That crushed me.
And you do that because if youcan do that before you react,
because if you can do thatbefore you react, then you are
truthful.
And the problem is is that whenwe say we can't do it in our own
lives, it's too hard and it'sbecause there's a conversation
(09:57):
that happens before you actuallyopen your mouth.
It's the conversation in yourhead, which is what you and I
were talking about.
It's a conversation in yourhead and sometimes, like I've
heard dad say, I can't say that.
I'm in charge of the house,this is my domain.
I've heard those things said.
So they're not going to saytruth, they're going to say
reaction.
So which is it that you'redoing?
(10:18):
Are you reacting or are youspeaking truth?
And so it's up to you to decide.
Is it hard?
Yes, do you love your children?
Yes, will you put your childrenfirst in the situation?
If you're willing to say yes tothat, then what you're willing
to do is be truthful about thespace.
(10:39):
And what that means is I justhad this conversation with this
other other woman yesterday andshe was saying if my mom, if
she's feeling, if she's feelingthis and she can't, just she
just can't do it, then thenthat's not wrong.
She can't do it.
And she said so why would youexpect her to?
(11:01):
Why do we, should we expectthem to?
And I, I said why was she?
Why was she scared?
And she went oh, wait a minute.
And I said that's where itbegins.
It doesn't begin when it comesout of our mouth.
It began up here.
So when you are scared,snapping, why are you snapping?
Why are you snapping at yourkid?
(11:24):
You're, you know your teenager.
Tell that truth and then say nowI'm mad.
But a lot of times what we dois we would go I'm mad, how dare
you?
You don't speak to me that way.
And I would tell my kids youcan speak to me, you can tell me
anything, just do it withrespect, don't shred me, but
(11:45):
tell me.
So.
It would be that premise that Iwould go in at.
So another one would be I wouldsit there and I'd go, oh my
gosh, ouch.
Or I'd instantly weep Like I'veonly had one child tell me I
hate you one time in their life.
(12:06):
And how many of us people say Ihear it all the time, oh my
gosh, then do you tell the truth, do you?
Are you that parent?
So the first.
When my child did it, she wasthree years old.
Now think about it.
Are we going to hold athree-year-old accountable?
Are we going to hold ourselvesaccountable in the moment?
(12:27):
So she went hauling upstairs.
She'd been in a flux, there'dbeen a lot of changes in her
life, she was stressed I get itThree years old.
And some people are going tosay, oh my gosh, that's just
terrible that you would holdthem three years old.
She's able to understandbecause she was crying and
screaming.
So something's coming.
(12:49):
If I'm not willing to own up toit and answer that, then that's
on me.
So she went hauling upstairs.
I hate you.
I went hauling after her and Igrabbed her like grabbed her.
Tears streaming down my faceand I said that crushed me.
(13:10):
Why would you say that I loveyou.
You mean more to me thananything and you, even though
she can't understand everyconceptual thing, she heard my
heart and I said that crushed me.
If you are unhappy, tell me.
If you're angry, tell me.
(13:32):
If you're mad, tell me, and Ishowed her.
If you feel this way, tell me,but don't scream that.
And I've never heard it again,ever.
I never heard it out of ourother children.
The thing is is that I waswilling to stand in the truth
for the minute.
I was willing to show myself.
(13:54):
Are we willing to do that asparents?
I have parents that say I don'tthink I can do that.
Okay, then what does that meanfor you?
Okay, there's a price.
There's going to be a price,right?
Speaker 1 (14:11):
So anyway, it's a lot .
Well, I'm wondering cause I'mthinking.
I I feel like I do that with mychildren.
You do what I tell them mytruths.
Oh yeah, I mean, I'm definitelya very more probably, more
(14:37):
probably, they probably aretired of hearing my truth with
it.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
Um, but I would assume that some of this is due
to the authoritative parentingstyle where they might be
dealing with that, or do you seeit with it depends on the
situation and it depends ontheir uh, the tenor at which
they go, but I think you'rereferring to a three-year-old
looking at an adult reactingthat way, coming off as more you
(15:00):
know this like overarching, youknow brooding, but the thing is
, is that we have to be carefulthat when people say things like
this, like I'm saying that, wedon't nutshell them into that's
all.
They are Right, okay.
So yes, let me.
Let me continue, then, for you,for you and your listeners,
(15:21):
that may come off asauthoritarian, like overbearing.
That may come off, and I cansee that.
However, then you don't.
What you don't see is thecuddling, the, how I took her to
the couch and we sat down, howI soothed her, how we stood, the
my tone changed, how it becamemore soothing and nurturing.
(15:44):
The thing is, is that when youlook at somebody like me who
does the work I do, you, you caneasily go.
She's overbearing and I cantotally get it, but that means
the narrow-mindedness ofsomebody who can think that
without ever asking, there's theconflict and that's why the
work I do matters, because Iteach.
(16:06):
That's curiosity.
You don't make an assumption.
It's a good, it's a goodquestion, and I'm not saying
that, but all listeners aregoing to listen through that
same kind or similar ears.
So that is a very relevant andgood approach and question.
So you're asking so isn't thatkind of you know, overbearing
(16:28):
and scary and intimidating?
Yeah, it totally could be if Ileft it there Just like, just
like if I say I am so scaredyou're going to die.
That's fearful, unless youcontinue the conversation, right
.
So so that's the point ofconflict resolution, it's
(16:52):
continuing the conversation.
Sometimes we get so pigeonholedinto an idea, into an
assumption, into an you know, ifshe does it this way, then one
way, if she does it one way, shedoes it that way all the time,
and that's simply not the case.
So that's the beauty of theconflict resolution is that you
keep moving.
(17:12):
It may have come off for peopleas that, but my daughter had
three years with me.
She has seen me be strong, shehas seen me be soft, she has
seen me be questioning, she hasseen me be insecure.
So it's not like that is theday she first saw me.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
Right, and I wasn't meaning you.
No, no, I was meaning the onewhen you said the people who say
they can't show their feelingsto their child, Because I feel
like you did show your feelings,but when you made the comment
you said some people say theycan't do that.
That's where I was thinking.
(17:56):
Are those the authoritativefigures that?
Don't that's like I'm not goingto show my emotion.
I can't say that you hurt myfeelings.
I wouldn't know in thatparticular situation that I was
talking about.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
I wouldn't know in that particular situation that I
was talking about, I think itwas more fear-based.
Okay, she was afraid to exposeand it wasn't an overbearing.
I can be overbearing, for sure,but in that situation I don't
think that was overbearing.
I think she was scared andinstead of saying I'm scared
(18:28):
because I just don't think Ihave the bandwidth, I don't
think I can stand up next onthat.
That is a completely differentthing and you continue, like I'm
saying, continue thatconversation to figure it out.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
Right, okay.
So, yeah, I also wanted to gointo the statement where you
said it's all in our head,because I think this is one
thing, that, whether it is aconflict resolution with a teen,
or dealing with our own innervoice and some of the things
(19:00):
that we're dealing with in thismidlife area, I think what you
had mentioned is so importantand it's how we begin to think
about it before anything is everexpressed.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
So can you?
Speaker 1 (19:17):
talk to me like one.
How, how can we, how do wechange that Say, say that again.
What do we do to start tochange that voice in our head?
This you know, this feeling ofhaving to immediately think
about, like you said, theconflict within your own head.
(19:40):
How do we work through?
Speaker 2 (19:43):
this.
So the thing that we were youand I were talking about
beforehand just to bring it upto the where I was at was a lot
of people in the conflict spacenot all conflict people are
created equal, okay, and a lotof people in the conflict space
will say conflict is a challengeor a situation between you and
(20:05):
me, and I've never agreed withthat.
Again, pointing out thatconflict people are not all the
same, they're not created equal,because I believe conflict is
what happens in your own head,in public view.
(20:27):
That's when conflict happens.
That's the resolution we'retrying to get to, and I call BS.
It's not, that's other stuff,that's what we spew after we've
already had the conflict in ourhead.
So, for example, something issuper simple.
We're dealing with midlife,right?
So simple.
When you get up and you look inthe mirror, are you 18 anymore?
(20:52):
You know what I mean.
And how do you feel about thatwoman, right?
How do you feel?
Speaker 1 (20:59):
right, yeah, no, it's very, I want to say, depressing
, but it's very shocking becauseyou don't feel you may not feel
that way inside, and then youlook at yourself and you're like
, oh okay, I'm not feeling thatI'm not feeling what's looking
back at me.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
But here's the thing.
Okay, so this is how it begins.
You did that, not you.
You did that when you looked inthe mirror.
You got this opinion, you hadthis self-talk, and then you
went outside, or outside of thatbathroom door, and you went and
did breakfast.
What are you doing duringbreakfast?
I shouldn't eat this, I should.
I'm going to make this foreverybody.
(21:36):
Why isn't everybody happy?
Everybody needs to be great.
This is a great day.
Or your husband comes out and hesays something that sets you
off and it's like but where didit begin?
And then what you do is you'regoing to go out in the world.
You're going to go to thegrocery store.
Somebody cut you off in theparking lot or somebody got in
front of you in line.
Now you're ticked off even more, and this is just a maddening
(21:57):
cycle.
So what we've done is that wetake that and we put it out in
the world.
We took that stuff and we putit out in the world, but what we
do is we blame it on.
That's the conflict.
It's the conflict of the personthat cut me off.
It's the conflict that myhusband mouthed off to me and
triggered me.
It's the conflict that my teensaid something back to me.
(22:18):
But really, the conflict ishappening in your own head first
.
That's where it all began.
Whether it is there's such apain in the butt I don't want to
deal with my 16-year-old todaysuch a pain in the butt, I'm so
tired of what he's doing rightnow in the family and we
developed that conflict right inour head.
And then we went out and wegreeted him and it's like, oh,
(22:42):
having a nice day, okay, well,I'm going to have a nice day.
And then we tell the world andtell people it's not, it's not
my problem, it's their problem.
No, no, it was my problem first.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
Because when I have trouble with people.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
It's like it started here, or it started days ago, or
it started last year.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
Well, and we all create our own stories, so we've
already come into the situationcreating our own story.
When you said the husband, Ithink to myself sometimes, like
things, that I think where I'mlike, oh, you know he, he can't
stand to look at this faceeither.
You know, I'm just saying like,you know, you feel like, oh,
you're getting older and it's Iwonder how he is looking at me.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
And yes, or or you say no wonder men have affairs,
and yes, or or you say no wondermen have affairs.
Look at me, look at what he'slooking at.
You know how's he dealing withthis?
I'm 50 pounds overweight.
You, these are the things thatyou do to yourself and we're
doing it constantly.
We are just torturing ourselvesconstantly and then we go out
(23:49):
in the world and go.
It's not my problem, it's theirproblem.
They're the ones with theattitude problem.
I can't even believe thatthey're even thinking.
It's me.
You know what?
The way I look at the world, Ilook at the world as I choose to
be happy.
That's the way I am.
That's why I show up and you'regoing.
You know, no, no, no.
There's a few things that aretrue, that are giveaways, you
know.
Like for me, it's like how doyou keep your house?
(24:09):
There's a giveaway of how youfeel.
How do you keep your body?
That's a giveaway of what'sgoing on, not necessarily the
way you feel, because I can holdweight when I'm pissed off at
my husband for a long time whenhe had his head injury it's been
three decades Believe you me, Iheld that.
I held because I had no otherprotection, so I held weight.
(24:29):
You know I mean these.
There's so many dynamics that gointo this, but that's why the
conflict can start right betweenyour two ears.
So what do we do?
What you do is is a few things.
We talk about being satisfiedas women, coming into our own,
you know, having our ownconstitution, that kind of thing
(24:50):
.
But how does it begin?
It begins with these fiveskills.
It begins with curiosity.
Now, are you going to change itin a day?
No, I'm not going to change itin a day.
I'm going to get curious.
I'm going to be an exceptionallearner about who Carlene is.
I'm going to, I'm going to getto know her.
How does she get pissed off?
Why did you get pissed off,carleen?
(25:11):
You don't have to tell.
I don't have to tell anybody.
I just have to be caring enoughto go.
What?
Why did I do?
Oh well, because he's reallygreat and on my nerves because I
don't like the way he chews,cause I don't like that he's
wearing these clothes, that he'schanged his per.
My husband changed hispersonality completely.
Okay, so really I could sitback and go.
(25:33):
I don't even like this guy,right, I can sit there and go.
You bug me.
I didn't even have to wait forreal marriage to last to work.
You know what I'm saying?
I all I had.
We had a brain injury.
So it's like he comes homecompletely different.
He doesn't have the memories ofme that he used to.
I'm pissed off at Becca, right.
So I have to get curious.
Why does that hurt?
(25:53):
It hurts because I have thememories.
It hurts because he doesn'tadore me like he used to.
It hurts because he doesn'tcare about me like he used to.
It hurts because I am a personto him and I have to earn back
(26:16):
his affection because he doesn'tremember me the same way.
So that's curiosity about me.
I'm sharing really boldly.
I've not talked about thisbefore, but the thing is, is
that that's how you figure thisout?
And then you go, what am Igoing to do with it?
Because it's my attitude, myattitude that I'm standing with
(26:38):
it but I'm not going to fix it.
So then I go into.
Okay, my master listening ispiecing things together.
It's filling in the gaps.
Well, you know, I can't.
I can't hold him responsiblefor not remembering me, but dang
.
I want to right, so then I'vegot to have that little mind,
talk with myself and go, okay,but yeah, it's really not cool.
(27:00):
What kind of what does it sayabout you as a human, carlene?
Okay, well, well, was it lovetill death?
Do you part?
Or was it, you know, insickness and health?
Speaker 1 (27:07):
Where are you?
Speaker 2 (27:08):
at.
I mean, all these conversationshave gone through my head as
I've processed who I am, andthen I have to connect with
myself, not connection, as inthis self-care, but connection
as in oh, you know what.
You have a right to feel thatway, carlene.
You're okay.
You can feel it, get mad, giveyourself a season, give yourself
a minute, give yourself sometime to process and feel the
(27:31):
pain, feel the loss.
It's an evolution.
Fyi, it's an evolution, so it'snot going to all happen in a
day, but there are things that Ido, that I go through those
things and that's one of thethings I teach in my deep dive
elevation programs is I talkabout?
This is exactly how I heal,this is exactly how.
Is I talk about?
This is exactly how I heal,this is exactly how, and it all
(27:52):
uses the savage theory ofresolution.
And then what you do is youreframe, which we talked about,
and that is okay.
He doesn't remember you thesame way, but you love him.
So what are you going to doabout that, carlene?
And I remember I was on thebrink of divorce with him and I
had to do some soul searching.
And I had to do some soulsearching and I had to really
(28:13):
make the decision Am I leavingor am I staying?
And so I sat there and then Irealized I had overheard a
friend of mine talking to herhusband and he had done plenty
of offensive, offensive things,plenty and, let's just say,
worthy of being shunned, okay.
(28:35):
And yet I heard her go hey,carlene's going to stay here for
the weekend, is that okay?
And I went what?
Why do you need to ask hispermission?
He's not even here.
You and I have been friendslonger than you two have been
married, and I went through thatwhole conflict, right, right,
and you two have been married,and I went through that whole
conflict, right, right.
But here's the thing is that,as I was processing through my
(28:55):
own personal space, I had to sayso, what are you going to do
about it, carleen?
That's the reframe.
And I realized again, going backthrough my Savage Therapeutic
Resolution, I realized huh,since he's had his brain injury,
I've never fully shown him whoI am.
I've been protector, guardian,keeper, you know, fighter, all
(29:18):
for his situation.
I have been the person whostayed stoic, who stood against
every wind that came, but Inever gave him the kindness of
who I am, the tenderness of whoI am.
And so I said to him I wentback and I said, hey, can we,
(29:40):
you know, can I talk to you?
And he's like, oh great, herewe go.
You know, buckle up, she'sready.
And I said, hey, you know what,if our marriage is going to end,
I'm okay, and I hope you wouldbe okay too, but I'm going to
make sure you know the woman Iam before we finalize.
And that instantly changed me,because it all happened in my
(30:05):
head All the conflict, all thebeating, all the self-beating,
all the beating of him, all thatstuff, all that.
And then what I spewed out intothe world and what I covered up
and what I pretended through.
And so I finally said that tohim and I changed instantly.
And a couple of weeks later hecame back and he goes oh my gosh
(30:26):
, have you always been this way?
You are the most amazing woman.
And I went well, yes, yes, as amatter of fact, I am.
And so we've continued on inthat journey.
But that taught me a few thingsabout the conflict that happens
in my head.
And what are we doing totorture ourself than others?
(30:49):
What are we doing to tortureourself than others and then
covering up so we look likewe've got it all together, and
this is the magic of midlife isthat you have that opportunity
to really start looking atthings.
You know, when you're youngerI'm just surviving sometimes and
(31:12):
you've got to do things.
There too, these same theorieswork, but anyway.
Yeah, that was a long way toanswer your question.
I'm so sorry.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
No, it's great.
It was great For those thatmight be afraid to open up.
At that point, do you haveanything to say to them?
I'm thinking because they'refeeling, because I'm thinking of
your situation, like you'vebeen hurt through everything you
know, like the injury didn'tjust happen to him, it happened
(31:42):
to you as well and you probablywere in a sense, I would assume,
protecting yourself.
So maybe that's where some ofthe where you did not then open
up to really share who you were.
So how do you, do you have anyrecommendation of how we get to?
Okay, finally, like we know,it's within ourselves.
(32:04):
How do you open up to allowyourself to share that
information?
Speaker 2 (32:10):
Sure, and you're right on all those counts, and I
think fear of exposingourselves is very worthy to
discuss.
My question is what have yougot to lose?
Speaker 1 (32:22):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
What is the price of not and what is the cost to In
my world?
Okay, so in mediation,mediation, crisis and hostage we
look at worst case scenario youhave to.
So take any of those worst casescenario you lose a life.
What were you willing to pay tokeep it?
(32:45):
So if your conflict is withinthe walls of your own head and
you're going, my life is crap.
I'm in midlife.
We've lost my relationship withmy spouse because we have been
so taken up with the familysituation, with drama with our
(33:05):
aging parents, with loss of achild.
We have had all of this stuff.
So now I don't even know wherethis person is.
My question is what's it worth?
What's the cost?
What are you at risk of losing?
What's your worst case scenarioand is it worth that?
(33:29):
So I just had a couple talkingto me about breaking up right,
and they're sparring quite a bitand all that stuff, and so when
we were sitting down, I said tothem look, here's the real deal
.
You never leave yourrelationship in a broken state.
If you cannot look at thatperson and think that they are
(33:51):
worthy of something good, thenyou are living in a bad state.
That's a problem I have.
That's my problem If I amtearing and shredding another
person down in order to and thenI give myself permission to
leave and, you know, claim thatthey're this person or that
person and that gives me, youknow, rational, rational
(34:13):
rationale to leave.
That's a mistake.
Now, if I can look at thatperson and go, you know what.
You deserve the best, I deservethe best, or whatever that
conversation is going to be inyour head.
You deserve the best, I wantthe best, or whatever that
conversation is going to be inyour head.
You deserve the best, I wantyou to have that and it's not
(34:36):
this.
So what can we do?
Or you have your ownconversation and your own
situation and walk out of that,whatever that is, whether it's
an argument or whatever but younever leave your conflict saying
that's the reason why, becauseyou're doing it on an emotional
trigger, you're not doing it ofsound mind.
We don't make good decisionswhen we're flying high in
(34:57):
emotions Think about it Hostagetaking.
They're not making gooddecisions.
So you need to have somebodycome in that's going to talk to
you more about realism, moreabout what is what is really at
stake here, man, and that's whatthey do in a hostage situation
they find out who is the wife,who are the kids, how close is
he to them, who is the trigger,what's going to make him pull or
(35:20):
make her?
You know what?
How is that going to work?
And they start dissecting whatmatters.
And then they can talk to theperson and say what's at risk
here?
Are you willing to risk allthat for a bunch of strangers in
there?
Is that the price you'rewilling to pay?
And and what are you going tohave after that?
(35:40):
What did you just buy by bytaking lives?
You just bought what.
What did you just buy by takinglives?
You just bought what.
So to bring it down to ourspace by calling it quits, by
saying it's not me, it's justyou, it may be 80% them, but you
still have 20%.
(36:02):
It may be 95% them, you stillhave five percent.
What are you going to do withthe five percent you?
You have not lost power.
You will never lose powerunless you hand it over.
So then you have to work withmy five percent, my 20.
What am I going to do with that?
What's it worth?
What's it cost?
(36:22):
What's the price?
Am I willing to pay it?
So that would be my question toyour answer to your question
Okay, what's it worth?
Speaker 1 (36:32):
I mean I think most people at that point you know
you have nothing to lose, youprobably have already come to
the end of yeah yeah, exactly'tyou.
Speaker 2 (36:44):
Yeah, I have felt I mean you guys, no joke, I mean
I've been stripped of everythingthat mattered.
I.
I know what that looks like, Iknow what it looks to be at the
very bottom and it doesn't haveto be that way.
If I take back and admit thatI've got a piece to play here,
(37:09):
right, even walking out is apiece.
Even say you don't walk out,maybe, maybe you stay in these,
this midlife situation thatyou're maybe not happy with and
I'm not saying everybody'sunhappy with it, I'm just saying
if you are, because I deal inconflict, if you stay in that,
then that's yours.
You stayed there.
(37:30):
If you stay in it and not change, if you stay in it, continue to
be dismissed and ignored.
You chose it, so just know that.
And if you chose it, thenyou've got to embrace that.
If you don't like it, you havepower.
Now I can change a room.
I can change my husband's moodjust by using the Savage Theory
(37:54):
of Resolution.
That's it.
I can change a bad mood into agood mood instantly just by
using those skills.
I can change crazy hostilityinto calm de-escalation using
those skills.
So don't take it lightly Right.
Speaker 1 (38:15):
Can you give us one little tip?
So if someone is dealing withthat situation in their
household, this kind of beinglike a homework assignment for
them, they've hit some sort ofconflict and what would one tip
be for them to work through tochange the room, change the
(38:39):
situation?
Are you talking about instantchange, yeah, yeah, or you know
as close as you can.
Is there one or two things thatthey can do when they find
conflict this week, that theycan create the change?
Speaker 2 (38:56):
Yep, one that will work, and has worked in every
situation, if you use it.
Now, that's a caveat, becausemost people think that this is
way too dumb to use, and they'llalready reason themselves out
of it, okay, so I'm going togive you all the baggage that
(39:17):
you're going to talk yourself tothrow as you talk yourself out
of it.
Speaker 1 (39:23):
But it's that conflict in your own head.
Again, I know conflict in yourown head.
Speaker 2 (39:27):
Okay.
So here's what you do, and Iusually say start with an easy
target, start with somebody thatyou get along with, that's you
don't have a lot of conflictwith.
But let's say you go after thehard stuff A conversation I put
it in my Ted talk, it's the 15minute conversation or the
(39:47):
listening, and what that is is.
You go in and you talk to you,ask someone questions for 15
minutes.
You're going to see your ownshortcomings as well as theirs,
possibly, but you will discoversomething amazing, um, and that
is just ask them questions for15 minutes.
It could be something as simpleas hey, how was your day?
(40:11):
What do you mean how was my day?
Speaker 1 (40:12):
What are you asking me?
How?
Speaker 2 (40:13):
was my day.
You never asked me how my dayis.
Okay, yeah, I get it, but Ijust didn't know if something
had happened today.
You know about well.
I don't know.
I don't know what happenedtoday.
You seem a little grumpy.
I'm like you hungry, or youknow.
Do you just not want to talk tome, or how's that feeling?
Or you could start withsomething easy.
(40:36):
You know, I heard this podcast.
What do you think of this idea?
Do you think that women haveconflict in their own heads
before it comes out of theirmouth?
That would be a simple one andyou sit back and you listen and
then you begin to explore, kindof like what you and I are doing
(40:57):
.
You begin to explore ideas ofthat conversation.
So it could be something assimple as oh, so you do think
that.
You do think not, oh, you dothink women have this conflict
in there, not that one, but it'slike oh, how do you think that
happens?
Where do you think that comesfrom?
Do you think any of that isgeared from childhood or do you
(41:20):
think it's instant?
Do you think that it's impactedby friends, family, neighbors,
kids, and how do you thinkthat's instant?
Do you think that it's impactedby friends, family, neighbors,
kids, and how do you thinkthat's impacted?
Have you experienced that ofyour own self?
What is that?
And you begin to just askquestions.
Here's a few things that you'regoing to discover so that I,
that you know what you'relooking for, what the outcome is
(41:41):
going to look like.
You're going to find out youcan't ask questions.
You don't have enough questionsto ask, right?
You're going to find out thatyou are lacking this like
interest in that person and thenwhat, I don't know what to say,
oh crap.
And you're going to do that.
You're going to find out thatthey may be telling you things
that might go.
Or they might be telling youthings where you go wow, I've
(42:06):
never.
I've been married to you for 20years and I've never heard this
and that's going to be a bigaha.
They may go wow, that feelsreally good.
Or they may just want to hangout with you a little bit longer
, good.
(42:26):
Or they may just want to hangout with you a little bit longer
.
They may start asking youquestions, but the first 15
minutes you hold and you ask,continue asking them questions
and say, yeah, okay, I'll get tothat, but but I was wondering
and that's how you keep movingin that conversation to be
one-sided.
It will also.
What this does is also releasesthe negativity within them, so
(42:47):
it will bring them down towhatever's happening that maybe
you don't know about.
And it'll be a connection.
I did it with my husband and hehad no idea.
It's not a manipulation, it's atool to try and reach somebody
and do help and work.
(43:08):
And so I did it with my husband.
I did this whole thing.
It's called.
I organized what I call lifeplanning conference, where you
go in and you create a 12 monthgoals together.
Well, how do you do that whensomebody doesn't want to spend
time with you?
Okay?
So there's a big whole thing Ido around that.
But I got him there Right andhe was like, okay, I and you
(43:32):
know how men can be right, Idon't want to do this, this is
so boring or silly.
Anyway, I said, just go with it, just go with it, I will take
care of this.
And so we did the whole thing.
I did the 15 minuteconversation and he goes wow,
that was so therapeutic, carleen, can we do that again?
(43:56):
And it was just interesting NowI, I set it up and it was a 15
minute conversation that I saidI just want to ask you a few
questions, and so he said okay,and then he, that was his
reaction afterwards.
You can go about it that way.
You can just simply start witha conversation.
You could simply ask somethingthat's about the world you know,
about something happening inyour community.
(44:18):
Start with that what do youthink of this?
What do you think of this nextthing that's happening?
And start hearing them.
You this, what do you think ofthis next thing that's happening
?
And start hearing them.
You could do it on politics Ifyou have no opinion about it and
hold, you can do it.
Speaker 1 (44:35):
On that, I mean, there's just so many places to
go.
But do it.
That is going to begroundbreaking, yeah, especially
if you're not giving your twocents as well.
Speaker 2 (44:42):
Just go like this, just do this, just hike.
Speaker 1 (44:46):
Can you let our listeners know where they can
find you?
And if you're offering, Ibelieve you're offering
something.
Speaker 2 (44:55):
I am.
So they can go to my website,carleansavagecom slash parents
and they can get on my list todo any parenting stuff.
But if you get on my list atcarlingsavagecom, I share other
trainings.
So like I have a $97 trainingwhere I give you three days of
this stuff and I teach you howto do it and I walk you through
(45:16):
it and we do breakouts andanyway you learn all of that
stuff.
That's epic and so good forpeople.
And that's what I want to do isI want to share the information
with people and I don't, youknow, I kind of go in on this.
My course is just insanelycheap and I've been paid a ton
(45:37):
of money to do these things on abigger level.
But yeah, you need this stuffin your life.
Yeah, I know what it's done forme and yeah, I know what it's
done for me and I guess I knowwhat it's done for my kids.
I know what it's done in themost broken relationships.
I know what it's done inabusive situations.
I know what it's done.
Not that anybody should stay inabusive situations, be done
(45:58):
with that but I can work inthese places and I come to you
sharing that some of that.
So that's how you find me.
Speaker 1 (46:08):
Well, and I think, like you said, you have nothing
to lose at that point.
So, yeah, yeah.
So thank you so much for takingtime out of your day for this
conversation.
I really enjoyed it.
Speaker 2 (46:21):
Courtney, you and I just went off we went outside
the box.
We went everywhere.
Anyway, thank you so much forletting me be here.
Speaker 1 (46:30):
Of course, I hope you enjoyed this episode and found
something to take away to helpyou practice healthier habits,
move more or handle the midlifeand aging with grace.
If you enjoyed this episode,please share it with a friend or
leave us a review to help usreach more moms just like you.
Head to movingthroughmidlifecomto join the free community or
(46:56):
learn how you can move more andfeel better in your daily life.
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