November 4, 2024 • 40 mins
Struggling with irritable bowel syndrome can feel like an endless maze of discomfort and confusion, as both my guest Atavia and I know all too well. Atavia, a thoughtful online nutritional therapist, opens up about her personal battle with IBS beginning in her early twenties, sharing the hidden challenges of weight loss and anxiety. Throughout our conversation, we shine a light on the shortcomings of traditional medical treatments and underscore the transformative power of knowledge and self-empowerment in managing one's health journey.
Together, we navigate the fascinating yet complex relationship between the gut microbiome, food intolerances, stress, and inflammation. By demystifying these components, we reveal how they contribute to IBS and how personalized health screenings can pinpoint individual triggers like specific food intolerances or stressors. With these insights, listeners are encouraged to trust their instincts and consult with medical professionals to rule out other potential conditions, all while embracing the deeply individualized nature of health and nutrition.
In a world that often overlooks the importance of gut health, we offer practical strategies to enhance digestive wellness. From mindful eating and monitoring stool health to understanding the crucial role of dietary variability, we provide actionable advice that caters especially to busy women in midlife. By fostering a mindset of curiosity rather than frustration, we aim to empower you to make connections between symptoms, stress, and dietary choices, ultimately paving the way for more effective management and a healthier life. Join us in spreading these vital insights to foster a community rooted in well-being and understanding.
Here is the link to the podcast episode Atavia discusses:
Food Intolerance vs IBS
Learn more from Atavia:
www.atavianutrition.com
ig @atavia.minoudis
podcast Gut Reactions
Head to www.movingthroughmidlife. com to learn more
Join our Free FB Community:
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
If you deal with tummy issues or stress,
different kind of symptoms andmaybe you've heard about
irritable bowel syndrome or evenbeen diagnosed with irritable
bowel syndrome.
This is going to be the episodeyou want to listen to.
Today I'm speaking with Atavia.
She's an online nutritionaltherapist who specializes in gut
(00:23):
health and irritable bowelsyndrome.
She is going to be talking tous about her own journey and I
happen to mention my situationas well, as I was diagnosed with
IBS back when I was 13 yearsold, and you know we're going to
discuss things.
She's going to help guide usthrough some things that will
(00:46):
lead you to success with yourIBS and help you to reduce your
symptoms.
Welcome to Moving ThroughMidlife.
I am your host, courtney, apersonal trainer and movement
(01:07):
specialist who wants to help youmove through midlife with more
grace.
Each week, we will discuss wayswe can show up better for
ourselves and our childrenwithout the burnout.
We will focus on overall healththrough habit stacking to help
increase energy, providemovement snacks to help you move
more throughout the day, whilealso moving your body more, and
(01:31):
learn from professionals onmoving through midlife with ease
so that you can feel confidentwith aging.
Gracefully, grab your earbudsand join me on a leisurely walk
while we discuss moving throughmidlife.
Hi Atavia, how are you today?
Speaker 2 (01:49):
I'm great thanks.
How are you?
Thanks for having me on.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
Yes, I am so excited to have you on because you talk
about your gut and irritablebowel syndrome.
Yeah, and I suffered withirritable bowel syndrome when I
was a child, so I am excited tobe able to speak with you and
learn from you and see what yourtake is on it and how you help
(02:15):
people work through thediagnosis and what people can
tend to work through theirdiagnosis, because I know you
have more information in regardsto that, as to why I said the
diagnosis was a little spurt onmy face, okay, so can you tell
(02:37):
me just a little bit aboutyourself and what got you
interested in studying or, youknow, helping people with their
gut?
Speaker 2 (02:47):
yeah, sure, I mean it's quite a niche thing to want
to talk about people's bowelmovements, isn't it every day?
Um, I mean, same as you I had.
You know I was told I had IBSwhen I was in my early 20s, um,
and had a whole host of issuesreally with my health, was
always really really low weight,really struggled to put on
weight, had a lot of anxiety,things like that, um, but the
IBS was like the final straw.
(03:07):
It was just something Icouldn't.
You just can't live with that.
Anyone who is listening, who'sexperienced that, will know it's
just not something you canmanage long term because it just
impacts everything you know,every aspect of your life.
So I decided to studynutritional therapy because I
would go back and forth todoctors and be told nothing came
back on your test.
It's all quote-unquote, normaland you know, just try
peppermint capsules.
(03:28):
And I'm a big believer that inanything in terms of health,
especially for women, we need tobe empowered and have the
knowledge and be able to makeinformed decisions and rather
than being at the mercy of youknow the medical profession that
sometimes don't know.
You know things that aren'tkind of in disease state, like
IBS.
They don't always have theanswers.
So, yeah, I was very much a bigbeliever of find out for
(03:49):
yourself and then you can, youknow, make the changes you need,
take back control when I wasdiagnosed, I was 13, which was
interesting to me, um, and I wasin the same situation as you is
.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
I could not put on weight and my doctor spoke to me
about, um, like I was drinkingthese terrible protein shakes
not to what they are.
I mean, that was what 30 yearsago, 30, more than 30 years ago
for me and um, the proteinshakes that we were drinking
were not what they are today.
(04:24):
The protein shakes that we weredrinking were not what they are
today.
And he wanted to do acolonoscopy and an endoscopy and
my mom was like no, becausethey kept saying something about
like stomach cancer, and mymom's like no, take a different
route.
So we ended up going to see agynecologist and through work I
(04:49):
know very odd, that thegynecologist was the one but she
started asking me questions.
She knew that I danced a lot,so she knew that I was probably
burning through all the caloriesthat I was consuming and I was
not eating enough for the amountof calories that I was
consuming and I was not eatingenough for the amount of dance
that I was doing.
And she was the one whodiagnosed me with irritable
(05:13):
bowel syndrome.
Wow so yeah, it was very yeah itwas very interesting, um so,
and it's always fascinating tome how people will go to their
doctor and their doctor willdiscuss different things about
how like it's not the food thatyou are eating, as to why your
(05:37):
stomach is having issues, andI'm like okay, what is it then?
Yes, exactly so what, um?
What have you found withirritable bowel syndrome and
possibly gut issues?
What have you tended to notice?
(05:57):
Um can help people with theirlike.
Once you're diagnosed, what?
What do you usually recommendpeople do?
Speaker 2 (06:08):
yeah, I mean in terms of irritable bowel syndrome and
IBS.
It it's a bit of acontroversial thing in terms of
a diagnosis because it's not aspecific disease.
Ibs is more a disorder thatcovers.
You know, it's like an umbrellaterm for a bunch of different
symptoms and I'm sure peoplelistening you'll know some
people can have IBS that's likediarrhea prone, or some people
(06:29):
can have it where it's morebloating and constipation.
It can be very different fordifferent people.
But something I found throughoutmy time studying and working
with clients is there tends tobe four main areas you need to
look at your IBS and they tendto be your gut microbiome, food
intolerances, inflammation inyour gut and stress.
Those are the four main areasthat you need to work on and
(06:50):
each person will be more proneto one.
So stress might be the majortrigger.
But essentially you need tolook at all four because all
four will pretty much be at playfor everybody.
It's just that one might bemore impactful than the rest and
I don't I never say to peopleto not go to their doctor.
I always encourage because youwant to get anything else ruled
out and, you know, geteverything you know more
sinister looked at and kind ofacross off the list.
(07:13):
But it's something that peopletend to experience is going back
and forth and not gettinganswers and not realizing that
if it's not in a disease statesomething like crohn's or
something like ulcerativecolitis if it's not reaching
that threshold, then the doctorsthat that's not their remit, so
they don't necessarilyspecialize in that area, but
people think they do, so theyend up going back and forth for
(07:34):
years and getting reallyfrustrated and then not knowing
there are holistic healthpractitioners who literally
specialize in in gut health yeah, well, and I love what you
mentioned with the fourdifferent things that irritable
bowel syndrome might be, becausefor myself I thought it was
stress.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
My mom ended up giving me a book about irritable
bowel syndrome and it wastalking a lot about how to
manage your stress, and I alsodealt with a lot of anxiety.
Now, as an adult, I havelearned that my IBS and this was
only because of my son that Ifound out that I'm allergic to
(08:16):
corn so anything with cornmeal,cornstarch, any kind of corn
product, affects me.
And now I can go back in mymemory and remember things that
I was eating back then, becausebefore I went to dance we would
stop at Burger King and I wouldget.
But it was like certain daysthat were it.
(08:42):
You know, it was go straightfrom school to dance and that
was on the way.
So that's what I stopped and Igot the.
It was like a chicken sandwichbut it was covered in cornmeal,
and no wonder I dealt withirritable bowel syndrome.
So the fact that you're sayingthat it is your microbiome, your
intolerances, stress right andwhat was the fourth one,
(09:07):
inflammation oh okay.
Inflammation, which is usuallycaused by possibly intolerances
for sure and this is the thingit's.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
It's so interesting when you I mean when you realize
that and you kind of have likea memory recall of like you said
all the times you would havebeen eating that and oh, it all
just makes sense and everythingjust kind of slots into place
and your brain's like, aha,that's what was going on, and
then it just all makes sense,rather than being like what is
going on with my gut and what'scausing it.
You end up just you have like aclarifying moment where
everything just seems to, yeah,fall into place and you
(09:39):
understand what was going on allthat time yeah, so how do you
work with your clients when itcomes to that?
Speaker 1 (09:46):
How do you like, is there a protocol that you follow
, or do you start one place andhow do you work through it for
those?
Speaker 2 (09:57):
Yeah.
So everything I do with withevery client we'll start with a
very in-depth health screeningand a initial consultation where
we'll look in great detail atyour health history.
Was there any um, you knowgastritis?
Was there any food poisoning?
Was there a lot of antibioticuse when you were younger or
when you were a child?
All these different things thatcan show us what probably was
(10:17):
the trigger.
Like we're looking for atrigger here.
If it was all of a sudden, outof nowhere and there was
absolutely no change, nothingthat could lead to interesting.
So that could have been a foodtolerant intoler.
Out of nowhere and there wasabsolutely no change, nothing
that could lead to, hmm,interesting.
So that could have been a foodintolerance then.
Because if there was no stress,there was no change to
medication or anything that canimpact your gut microbiome like
antibiotics.
The only other thing kind ofleft sometimes is food
intolerances.
So we'll look at what thepredominant trigger for them is
(10:39):
and then what's continuing todrive it.
But then we'll look ataddressing all four areas with a
specific focus on the maindriver for them.
So for some people I've hadpeople who are complete
opposites in clinic but presentwith the same issue.
So, people who have really badbloating, maybe acid reflux too,
and one person feels verystressed.
(11:01):
The other person feels just asstressed, but one client needs
to.
Once we remedy their gutbacteria, the stress completely
goes.
The other person feels just asstressed, but one client needs
to.
Once we remedy their gutbacteria, the stress completely
goes.
And the other person?
We can do all the work on thegut bacteria, but actually they
need to work on reducing theirstress, because stress was the
main trigger for that person,whereas the other client they
were stressed because their gutmicrobiome was so poor.
They weren't producing, youknow, and harboring, you know,
(11:26):
serotonin, all the things your,your brain, needs to function
and keep calm.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
Um, so it's very, it's very much sort of like, you
know, a jigsaw puzzle, puttingtogether all the pieces and
finding what you know, what'sspecific to that individual,
whilst keeping those four areasin mind okay and this is
something I always hearken to inmy podcast is that there isn't
just one thing, because I feellike people come when they look
(11:52):
at health and fitness and all ofit nutrition they all want just
the simple plan that everybodygets Right.
And it really isn't about that.
It's really about learningabout you and listening to your
own body 100%.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
And I say to people in clinic as well body
intelligence is a thing andwe're very, I think, conditioned
to not.
We're very conditioned to justthink science and proven facts,
which is good, and obviously weneed to utilize that and go to
science.
But also that just sometimestakes us away from our intuition
.
And I have people coming to mesaying can we do this test and
this test and all these reallyexpensive in-depth testing?
Like, yeah, sure, we can dothem, but if you're saying that
(12:35):
you know you feel sick when youeat gluten and you just have a
feeling, why don't we justaddress that first and see if
that, because some people,you'll know, in your body some
is trying to tell you something.
We've just become disconnectedfrom our body and you know,
ironically not listening to ourguts and our gut instinct and
also, like you say, there'sdifferent moving parts.
So it's having a frameworkwhere you know for people, I
(12:57):
find.
I think they find it quiteuseful to have these four
pillars that they look at, butthey're still going to be very
individual to each, each person,and it's that's not um, it's
not going to only be those fourthings.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
there'll be other other parts too, but it is being
very unique to each individualokay, and if someone is like
they're hearing this and they'relike maybe I have ibs, is there
are, and I know sort of theanswer to this, but are there
(13:28):
some key indicators as to whatmight be IBS?
Speaker 2 (13:36):
Yeah, I mean you can, to be honest, do a quick Google
search to see the mainpredominant types.
It's really not that difficultto find the information.
I think it used to be quitehard, but now it's such a common
thing that there's so much on.
You know, in the UK, like ourNHS website, we have it.
But it will be things like, youknow, irregular bowel movements
if that's loose, watery stools,diarrhea, if that's
(13:56):
constipation, not going for dayson end, or incomplete emptying.
You don't feel like you're fullygone when you've gone to the
loo.
Bloating, any like abdominalpain, you know, gurgling in the
tummy, that kind of stuff.
Those are all kind of keyindicators of IBS and they're
like the classic symptoms andthere could be other things,
which is why we always say go toyour doctor and make sure
everything else is ruled outfirst, and then, if they've done
all that ruling out, there's nokind of like Crohn's disease
(14:19):
stuff like that, then they'llprobably say, yeah, it like IBS.
And really what people say whenthey say it's IBS is that your
bowel is irritated and we don'treally know why or what's
irritating it.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
Okay, and then you mentioned gurgling and all of
these constipation diarrhea.
What is normal bathroom habits?
Speaker 2 (14:43):
Yeah, great question.
You know it's fascinatinghearing people's norms, because
everybody asks is completelydifferent.
Some people say that they don'tgo to the toilet for a couple
of days.
That is not normal.
Going so much that you arenoticing how much you're going
is also not normal.
What I say to people is ifyou're having a well-formed,
easy to pass door a couple oftimes a day, great, not to the
(15:04):
point where you're ever havingto think about it.
But if you're aware, oh my god,I really need the loo, it's
urgent.
That's a sign you shouldn'treally be having urgency.
So generally, if you're awarethat it's causing an impact on
your life, or you're awareyou're not going at all, that's
an indicator that something'sgoing wrong there.
So we're looking at a couple oftimes a day, usually after
waking.
So maybe like half an hour anhour after waking.
(15:26):
Not if you're having caffeine,because I know a lot of people
do rely on caffeine to help thempass.
That means that your gut's, youknow, slowing down and it's
needing to rely on somethingelse.
Um, but yeah, generally, goingin the morning and then again
another time during the day, aneasy to pass stool, not super
smelly, not super like difficultto pass.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
That's a good sign okay and if you do have any of
those um and maybe you can'tanswer this I was gonna say like
, if you are dealing withdiarrhea or smelly stools or um,
um, what would be another onethat I'm thinking.
(16:05):
I'm trying not to do too muchinformation around.
Okay, first, let me ask this aswell so, when we talk about
stool, what is the normal, whatshould it look like?
(16:27):
Because, like you mentioned,people drink caffeine and then
have to go to the bathroom andthat may change the consistency
of the stool.
Can you tell us what therecommended like, what it should
look like?
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Sure, I mean, if anyone wants a visual, I would
definitely recommend googlingthe Bristol stool chart because
that will show you, undoubtedly,what it should look like.
But essentially it should beform, one, one piece, one
well-formed stool.
You know, you, it's not kind ofsnake like it's not super, um,
like doesn't look slimy.
It looks like it's well formedbut not dry, um, kind of in the
middle.
So it has like a you know, notsuper liquidy consistency, but
(17:04):
it's not super dry, it's notsuper liquidy.
If it's super dark, that's abad sign.
If it's really pale or has anyyellow tinges to it, that's also
a bad sign.
That indicates that you've gotproblems with your digestion,
maybe with bile or your acidlevels in your stomach, so like
a sort of like a regular browncolour, really.
But I would definitelyrecommend it's quite hard to
(17:25):
explain it like in depth, likewith words, but go and google
Bristol stool chart and it willshow you, you know, the
different types of stool youshould be having and which ones
are the norm.
Um, and don't be, don't be shyto look after you've gone, just
make sure, like is this looking?
You know, I know we bit to boompeople.
Don't talk about it, but justhave a look and think oh, what's
?
What's my stool telling metoday?
Is this looking normal, ormaybe not so much?
Speaker 1 (17:48):
I know I always tell my children like I mean did you
look?
What are you talking about, mom?
That's disgusting.
I'm like no, it's called health.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
You need to look and make sure it looks normal it's a
key indicator and you knowanything like if you're having
mucus in your stool or ifthere's any, any blood in your
stool.
That's a sign that something'sgoing on that you want to look
at.
So yeah, I know it's notsomething that people may be
very keen on, but honestly it'spart of your body and it's
something that is such a goodindicator of what's happening in
inside your digestive tract.
(18:18):
So, yeah, I would definitelyrecommend people get familiar
with that and do you recommend?
Speaker 1 (18:24):
I know you mentioned that there are different things
that you recommend people dobased on their situation, so you
can't give us like I do thisfirst, I do this second, I do
this third.
But is there a place for peopleto start, maybe, if they are
struggling with IBS, besidesgoing to the doctor, like, is
(18:47):
there something that theyobviously they should go see
their doctor first?
I'm not meaning that, but isthere something they can start
doing initially to kind of helpguide them through this?
Speaker 2 (19:02):
situation I would say it's.
It comes in tears.
So it depends on symptoms.
Sometimes symptoms don't matterso much as what's causing them,
but sometimes they do.
For example, if someone isexperiencing chronic
constipation or incompleteemptying, or they're having to
really strain to pass the stool,the thing that everyone can do
in that situation is look at howmuch are they moving throughout
(19:23):
the day and how much are theydrinking and what quality is the
water they're drinking.
Because if you're like most ofus are sedentary, always sitting
down, always driving places,not moving guess what?
Your gut's not going to bemoving through either, and
that's a classic forconstipation.
So that's something supersimple anyone can do get up and
do a little bit of yoga, do abit of walking a couple of times
a day, just making sure you'rehelping your body to get things
(19:45):
moving.
And secondly, with water,making sure you're drinking
enough water and it's not tapwater.
Usually tap water is not verygood quality.
It can be, you know, have traceelements of not very nice
things in it.
So making sure it's highquality, filtered water, because
that's so important for yourstomach acid, for example, and
water keeps your gut lubricated.
So if you've got really poorquality water you're not
(20:07):
drinking enough, your, yourstools aren't going to be able
to move through and they'regoing to get stuck, and they're
going to be, you know, you'regoing to end up having
constipation.
So that's something that peopleexperiencing constipation can
do.
If it's diarrhea prone or maybemore bloating, first thing I
would look at is calming downbefore you start eating, making
sure that your body is in acomplete state of relaxation,
(20:28):
because as soon as you have anylevel of stress, your digestive
capability is completelycompromised.
Your blood moves away from yourdigestive tract and then what
can happen is your body thinks Ican't cope with this, I need to
get rid of it quickly, and youcan end up having diarrhea.
So those are some basic thingsthat you can start experimenting
with, obviously without itbeing more in depth, but yeah,
those are some basic things thatyou can start experimenting
with.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
Um, obviously without it being more in depth, um, but
yeah, those are some basicthings, places to start okay, um
, and you sorry about that, andyou mentioned with the eating,
and that's something that I alsorecommend to my clients just
the slowing down, because, aswomen in midlife, we are very
(21:12):
busy.
We're busy with children, we'rebusy with our family, we're
busy with our business or ourjob, and we tend to be the
people that kind of eat at the.
I feel like moms, women, eat alot standing at the kitchen sink
, things like that.
(21:32):
So how important it is to slowdown, take a breath, get your
body out of that fight or flightresponse, let it know it's a
rest and digest time.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
it's so important it really is.
And I think definitely, as youmentioned, women, specifically
women in midlife that putthemselves Let it know it's a
rest and digest time.
It's so important it really is.
And I think definitely, as youmentioned, women, specifically
women in midlife, put themselvessecond, and for lots of reasons
(22:10):
, because they either feel, youknow're always overwhelmed and
always thinking about otherpeople and you just end up
neglecting yourself basically.
But I mean, in terms of slowingdown and calming down, it sounds
so simple and so basic andalmost too easy, but it honestly
has one the biggest impact.
So if you're super stressed, itcan loosen your lower
esophageal sphincter.
Like, imagine you have elasticband at the bottom of your
esophagus that keeps the acid inyour stomach away from your
(22:31):
esophagus.
When people are stressed, itcan loosen that.
Then you can get acid reflux.
So it's so important.
Like you can't underestimatehow much of an impact it has.
And, honestly, if you're superbusy and you're like I don't
have five minutes to sit downand calm down, it can be as
simple as doing, you know, fourdeep breaths and just four
mindful breaths just to noticethat your nervous system and try
(22:51):
and calm it down a little.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
Any little thing like that that you can do is going
to help you massively okay andyou mentioned how the mindset is
one of the biggest things, notjust when you're eating but
throughout this whole situation.
Do you have recommendations ofhow to help people kind of
(23:15):
change their mindset around,maybe getting the diagnosis of
IBS or any kind of gut healthsituation?
Because it can be very scaryand uncomfortable for people, no
matter what they have, even ifit's just gas and diarrhea and
things like that, people can getnervous around that.
(23:37):
So what do you recommend forthe mindset?
Speaker 2 (23:41):
A couple of things I like to recommend radical
acceptance, acceptance andcuriosity.
I think with radical acceptance, what I mean by that is really
truly, genuinely radicallyaccepting the reality of your
situation.
That doesn't mean resigningyourself to that reality so that
, oh okay, this is just whatI've got and I've got to live
with it.
No, that's not the point.
It's really radically taking alook at where you're at and,
(24:03):
okay, at the moment I'm feelingreally bloated and I struggle to
know what's causing my symptoms, but it's causing lethargy.
Rather than trying to fightagainst that and try and you
know, I need to keep going tothe gym and maybe if I do some
sit-ups it'll make my bellysmaller or whatever.
It is just really accepting,right, this is the current
reality of my situation.
So what can I do to help myselfcare whilst I'm experiencing
(24:24):
this situation?
So it might be like, if I knowthat I'm stressed, giving myself
a few minutes to take time out,or if I know that I might have
a flare-up and have acid refluxor flatulence, giving myself
permission to not go to a socialevent if it's going to be super
uncomfortable for me, orknowing that I have safe
restaurants I can go to, and notbeing afraid to say to people
(24:44):
yeah, I'd love to go out fordinner, can we go here?
Because that's going to be somuch easier.
I'm going to have a moreenjoyable time whilst you're
working through the diagnosisand you know if you're working
with a professional to help youresolve the issues with
curiosity.
This is really, really usefulwhen you have specific triggers.
So if you have any sort ofrandom symptoms that come up and
they seem to be interchangeableand you're not really sure you
(25:05):
know they're not predictablebasically they might be you
might go weeks without havingany issue and then suddenly you
get bloated and you're like, oh,where's this coming from?
As soon as you get frustratedor overwhelmed, you won't see
the woods for the trees, likeyou won't be able to see what's
just happened five minutes agothat may have triggered that,
that issue, whereas if you juststop and just look at it through
curiosity and think, hmm,wonder what's going on here, I'm
(25:25):
suddenly bloated.
I've not experienced this for acouple I don't know days or
weeks.
Let me just think what I'vedone the last hour or so or the
last day or so and usually whenthat happens and I use this
myself I'll think oh, actuallynow I've stopped and thought
what's going on with me rightnow.
I'm really stressed and I was sostressed I wasn't even thinking
about how stressed I was,because I was just thinking
about the thing I'm stressingabout.
And then actually now I'mthinking about it, I've just
(25:48):
driven six hours back home and Ididn't eat very well and I had
loads of, like you know, snackfood on the motorway.
Like, yeah, of course that'sgoing to cause an issue.
So just having like a curiositymindset of what could be
causing it helps you to come outof a state of overwhelm and
then you're going to be moreable to see some potential
triggers, which is going to helpyou to like identify, you know,
things that are contributing toyour current situation okay,
(26:13):
and you mentioned that it couldbe based on your situation,
which you mentioned earlier, orit could be like a food
intolerance.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
I'm wondering, when you're mentioning this, could
you be in a situation where somedays you can tolerate a food,
but other days you can't Likehow that could be very confusing
to people, is that?
Oh, you know, I thought I had agluten intolerance, but then I
(26:44):
ate it the other day and it wasfine.
Well, for sure?
Speaker 2 (26:48):
yeah, absolutely.
I've actually done an episodeon this exact thing, so I'll
send you the link to put in theshow notes.
But it's you can.
You can have either, um, a levelof intolerance where, say,
someone's got gluten intolerance.
And I've had this with someone.
Said, oh, my friend's gotgluten intolerance, but only if
they eat a certain amount.
I said that doesn't sound right.
Said, oh, they can have liketoast in the morning and they're
(27:08):
fine, but then if they go outand eat a pizza they get really
bloated.
I thought, no, that doesn'tmean that they're only
intolerant to a certain amount.
It means their gut can onlyhandle a certain amount before
it triggers symptoms, but theyare going to be intolerant to it
.
So you could have had a coupleof days of eating lots of
different types of gluten, butit was like a stacking factor,
and then the final thing thatyou had was like the, the, it's
(27:28):
it kind of, you know, the strawthat broke the camel's back, so
to speak.
Or you could have some dayswhere you can eat it and it's
fine, like if you have a certainfood sensitivity or intolerance
.
But if you're really stressed,if your hormones are maybe all
over the place, maybe if you'venot been moving very much or
there's you know something goingon in your life that's made
your body not super resilient,then the food can cause a
(27:49):
symptom.
Doesn't mean that you weren'tintolerant to it before.
It's just that your body wasable to manage it better because
maybe you were in a state ofcalm or your hormones were more
regulated or, you know, yourstress levels were lower, maybe.
Yeah, so that can definitelyhappen.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
Okay.
So when that's happening, whatare you usually recommending to
people?
Because I, I, I find with a lotof my clients they want to eat
like the same thing day in andday out, and you know, I eat
this every morning for breakfast, lunch, dinner, and then the
next day I eat the same thingfor breakfast, lunch and dinner.
(28:25):
You know, like, maybe theirdinner changes, but their
breakfast and lunch are alwaysthe same and they get into this
repetitive, which is, you know,we are habitual people.
So I understand it, but couldthat be causing I know I just
asked you like two questions,but, um, could that be creating
(28:46):
some of this issue?
Speaker 2 (28:48):
yeah, potentially.
I mean, I've seen people inclinic who have eaten a very red
meat heavy diet and everythingthat you eat.
If you think, um us as people,we're hungry and we want to eat
right, we need to eat thebacteria in your gut are the
same.
They're almost like many peoplethat want to eat.
So we don't just feed on thefood that we eat.
Our bacteria do as well, andeverything you eat can either
feed or sometimes starve thosebacteria.
(29:09):
So, say you have quite a redmeat heavy diet, you have the
potential to overfeed bacteria.
That may become pathogenic.
They may cause issues.
If they overgrow and you havetoo many of them, they may cause
gas.
Equally, if you're not eatinglots of veg or fruit, you might
be starving certain beneficialbacteria that help to digest
certain foods and therefore youthen end up not being able to
(29:30):
tolerate those foods because youlack the bacteria, because
you've starved those bacteria.
So yeah, I mean for sure, youcan.
Definitely, if you're stickingto the exact same thing,
depending on what it is, youknow, depending on what the food
is, there's potential for thatto cause issue for sure.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
Okay, yeah, I usually try to recommend to my clients
to like vary it.
Just, you know, if you'rehaving oats this week, try to
find a different grain next week.
Or same thing with berries, or,you know, your fruit, whatever.
Try to change up.
It doesn't mean you got to gobuy 15 things this week, but try
(30:07):
to vary it over the month,finding different ways to help
feed the good gut.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
Yeah, and the variation is key because it's
it's not that there's any onespecific food, like with the red
meat example I mean, I don't, Idon't eat red meat but it's not
that if you eat red meat it'salways, only ever going to do
that one one thing, but if youeat too much of it or your gut
is already imbalanced, for sureit can.
So that's why we look atvariation.
Right, having a varied,balanced diet.
(30:35):
So having like the rainbowthing where you like, you want
to have a rainbow with differenttypes of fruits and veg.
So you want a little bit oforange, some deep colors, like
you know, blueberries,blackberries.
You want some darky greens.
You're getting all thedifferent kinds of colors that
that can be an easy way toremember it.
And you know, having rotations,like you mentioned, is a great,
is a great idea.
Okay.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
And I'm wondering as well, because we talked about
intolerance to certain foods andwhen you mentioned the person
who had the gluten allergy, well, well, maybe it wasn't an
allergy, so they had a glutenintolerance can you first
because I'm saying this, can youseparate the two explain what
(31:16):
the difference is between thosetwo?
Speaker 2 (31:19):
yeah sure.
So an allergy is is far moreserious.
It has more of a um that theimmune system that is activated.
The immune cells are differentso they have the potential to
put you into anaphylaxis,basically because it sees it as
an actual allergen that yourbody needs to attack.
When we say intolerance, itactivates a different type of
immune cell which can be sloweracting.
It can come on a bit moreslowly.
For some people it might beimmediate that you notice it in
(31:41):
your gut.
For other people it could takea couple of hours or even days.
But the response is generallyit's not going to be, like you
know, like an allergy,life-threatening um, necessarily
.
It's going to be maybe sloweracting, um, and the symptoms can
manifest in different ways.
So where you have allergies youtend to have like a hystermine
response.
So that could be like you know,your lips getting puffy or
(32:03):
airways closing, that kind ofthing with intolerances.
They can manifest in differentways.
So some people haveintolerances and don't even have
gut issues because the immunecells kind of move through the
body and then they get migrainesor they're really lethargic and
they just can't work out whythey're trying to sleep.
But it's just.
But it's because it's a foodintolerance and because the
immune system is slower acting,it just takes longer to to come
(32:23):
on, so it's almost moredifficult to know what you're
intolerant to in that case,which is why testing can be so
good for that okay and thenbased on the gluten intolerance
because I understand allergiesthat you would probably want to
see a doctor.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
If you're dealing with allergies, this is more
serious situation, but withintolerances, which I guess my
horn is an intolerance yeah, Ilost my train of thought, sorry.
Is there ever an opportunity tolike is it something that your
(33:03):
gut just can't handle, or is itand maybe maybe it's both, or is
it because of, like, we hear alot about the leaky gut nowadays
?
Is it more based on we've gotto get your gut healthy and then
it can tolerate it?
Like, how do you work withclients and help them with that?
(33:25):
Does it mean you're destined tonever eat gluten again?
Speaker 2 (33:30):
Sometimes, unfortunately yes, I won't beat
around the bush that is the case.
A lot of people have what wecall non--celiac gluten
sensitivity, so it won't come upin a celiac test.
You'll get tested for it andthey'll say, nope, you don't
have celiac.
But you, you have a sensitivitythat you will never overcome
because your body just can'thandle gluten.
Some people have in have moresensitivity.
So there is a differencebetween an intolerance as a food
(33:51):
that your body could justcannot handle, for example,
lactose intolerance.
If you don't produce the enzymethat breaks that down and you
never will produce it again, youwill never be able to have
lactose because, without youknow, having a symptom flare up.
Same with the gluten.
Sensitivities are different.
Sensitivities are more whereyour gut's been damaged.
You have leaky gut.
Your gut isn't able to processand handle the food.
(34:13):
In that case, if you justremove that food for for some
time and look at some gutreparation work, you should be
able to add that back in andyour gut should start to be able
to handle it.
So it really is a process of.
It's really a process.
It's hard to say, um, you knowimmediately what, that, what,
whether it's a foreverintolerance or whether it's a
sensitivity that you can kind ofrecover your gut, um, but you
(34:34):
will know, once you've done somegut work and then you
reintroduce it.
If I eat gluten now, no matterhow much I could, on my gut, I
wouldn't be able to handle it.
So that's pretty, pretty clearto me that I will never be able
to eat gluten again, um, whereassomething else that I might
have had a sensitivity to, onceI heal my gut a little bit, I
can handle it again, um, andthen I'm able to eat it again
okay now with you.
Speaker 1 (34:57):
like you just mentioned, you can't eat gluten.
What did you do to help workthrough your IBS, because you
were told you just had to livewith it forever?
Did you go through thefour-step process with yourself?
Is that how you healed yourself, or?
Speaker 2 (35:19):
pretty much.
I mean, I think, with IBS.
I realistically I don't know ifit's for some people it'll be
something they will always livewith though.
So for me I would say I stillhave IBS and it's I would call
it like in remission.
If I do certain things andcertain things can trigger it.
Some people will have a casewhere they just had one very
severe sensitivity and then then, once that food's gone, they
don't have.
They technically don't meet theIBS threshold anymore.
(35:42):
So it's different.
But for me, yes, I kind of gotmy IBS into what we'd call
remission by going through thatprocess without really realizing
I was doing it.
So I, through studyingnutritional therapy and then
realizing later on beingdiagnosed with ADHD and noticing
, oh yes, the stress and theconstant agitation and I feel
(36:03):
that in my stomach okay, I needto start doing something to
unwind my stress and calm myselfdown a bit that had a huge
impact.
Looking at populating my, mygut with beneficial bacteria,
using digestive enzymes to helpme break down food that really
helped.
And then looking at calmingdown inflammation, which for me
was fought from lots ofdifferent food sensitivities.
So I kind of did all thesedifferent things through
learning about them withoutreally realizing what I was
(36:25):
doing.
Um, and that's kind of how Idid it, but I think for me the
main things were stress and noteating properly, um, and also
having intolerance foods Ididn't realize intolerant I was
intolerant to mainly lactose andgluten okay.
Speaker 1 (36:40):
So what I'm hearing is there's a lot of things that
are involved with healing a gutand you have a podcast all about
this.
Right, can you share with us,like because cause I think you
know, like I had mentioned, thatpeople want the I'm going to do
(37:03):
this, this and this and allthings will be better, but it
really is more involved and notthat it's difficult.
Yeah, it's not difficult.
It's just having to listen toyourself and then have guidance
from someone like yourself whocan kind of help guide, to let
(37:24):
them know what to listen to.
So can you share with us whatyour podcast?
Speaker 2 (37:29):
is Sure.
So my podcast is called GutReactions.
It's all about IBS, sandero'sBowel Syndrome, and it is
basically what I like to try tocall call.
It's sort of like making IBSsort of basic and easy to
understand, because there's somuch information on IBS and it
all seems really conflicting andyou'll google and one person
will say one thing, one personwill say another thing.
(37:49):
It really is like you say.
It's not a one cure for allpeople.
There's lots of differentmoving parts.
However, that doesn't need tomean that it's complicated.
So what I like to do in myepisodes is to make it easy to
understand, so that it's moresimple to kind of like, overcome
your IBS.
So we'll look at those fourdifferent parts and how to know
which one is the maincontributing factor for your IBS
(38:11):
.
Perhaps I've got like aninteractive quiz on my podcast
as well where you can go for andcomplete that quiz and it will
tell you which one is probablythe main contributing factor for
your IBS.
Is it stress or is it gutmicrobiome, for example?
Um, so yeah, we'll look at allthese different moving parts and
how to apply it to your ownlife.
So, rather than just givinginformation, it's kind of
practical, of like, how can youactually use this to start
(38:34):
experimenting with it, to noticeany changes in your gut and,
you know, get yourself better?
Speaker 1 (38:38):
basically, because that's ultimately what we want,
right right, right, and I lovethe name gut reaction oh thank
you.
It's great, thank you.
Okay, so can you tell ourobviously listeners they can
listen to the podcast, but whereelse they can find you?
Speaker 2 (38:57):
yeah, so you can find me on instagram.
Um, I'm at ataviamanudis, soyou can find me on Instagram.
I'm at ataviamanudis bit of along name, as I'm sure, I'll put
in the show notes.
Speaker 1 (39:03):
Yes, I will.
Speaker 2 (39:04):
Thanks my Greek dad for giving me that one and on my
website, which isatavianutritioncom.
But yeah, the main place I'mactive is my podcast, and then a
little bit on Instagram too.
Speaker 1 (39:19):
And then they can learn about you through your
podcast and, yeah, perfect, Ilove it.
Thank you, oh, actually, let meask you one more question, if
people could.
If they're dealing with somegut issues, what is one thing
that they can focus on this weekto kind of help guide them
through better understandingtheir gut?
Speaker 2 (39:36):
I would say, for me it's a mindset shift of that
your gut isn't out to get youand it's not trying to cause you
issue, but it's trying to tellyou something.
And I know that might sound alittle bit like woo, woo or like
I want one thing that I can dothat's going to get rid of my
symptoms, but honestly, you haveto be honest with yourself
about where you are right nowand your gut is trying to tell
(39:57):
you something and as soon as youstart to approach out of a
level of curiosity rather thanfrustration, you're far more
likely to start to notice linksbetween certain situations, be
it stress, be it food, whateverthat might be.
So, yeah, that would be myadvice.
Speaker 1 (40:10):
I love it.
Thank you so much for takingtime out of your day for this
conversation yeah, it was great,was great.
Speaker 2 (40:16):
Yeah, it's lovely.
Thanks for having me on Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 (40:25):
I hope you enjoyed this episode and found something
to take away to help youpractice healthier habits, move
more or handle the midlife andaging with grace.
If you enjoyed this episode,please share it with a friend or
leave us a review to help usreach more moms, just like you.
Share it with a friend, orleave us a review to help us
reach more moms.
Just like you.
Head to movingthroughmidlifecomto join the free community or
(40:47):
learn how you can move more andfeel better in your daily life.
If you deal with tummy issues or stress,
different kind of symptoms andmaybe you've heard about
irritable bowel syndrome or evenbeen diagnosed with irritable
bowel syndrome.
This is going to be the episodeyou want to listen to.
Today I'm speaking with Atavia.
She's an online nutritionaltherapist who specializes in gut
(00:23):
health and irritable bowelsyndrome.
She is going to be talking tous about her own journey and I
happen to mention my situationas well, as I was diagnosed with
IBS back when I was 13 yearsold, and you know we're going to
discuss things.
She's going to help guide usthrough some things that will
(00:46):
lead you to success with yourIBS and help you to reduce your
symptoms.
Welcome to Moving ThroughMidlife.
I am your host, courtney, apersonal trainer and movement
(01:07):
specialist who wants to help youmove through midlife with more
grace.
Each week, we will discuss wayswe can show up better for
ourselves and our childrenwithout the burnout.
We will focus on overall healththrough habit stacking to help
increase energy, providemovement snacks to help you move
more throughout the day, whilealso moving your body more, and
(01:31):
learn from professionals onmoving through midlife with ease
so that you can feel confidentwith aging.
Gracefully, grab your earbudsand join me on a leisurely walk
while we discuss moving throughmidlife.
Hi Atavia, how are you today?
Speaker 2 (01:49):
I'm great thanks.
How are you?
Thanks for having me on.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
Yes, I am so excited to have you on because you talk
about your gut and irritablebowel syndrome.
Yeah, and I suffered withirritable bowel syndrome when I
was a child, so I am excited tobe able to speak with you and
learn from you and see what yourtake is on it and how you help
(02:15):
people work through thediagnosis and what people can
tend to work through theirdiagnosis, because I know you
have more information in regardsto that, as to why I said the
diagnosis was a little spurt onmy face, okay, so can you tell
(02:37):
me just a little bit aboutyourself and what got you
interested in studying or, youknow, helping people with their
gut?
Speaker 2 (02:47):
yeah, sure, I mean it's quite a niche thing to want
to talk about people's bowelmovements, isn't it every day?
Um, I mean, same as you I had.
You know I was told I had IBSwhen I was in my early 20s, um,
and had a whole host of issuesreally with my health, was
always really really low weight,really struggled to put on
weight, had a lot of anxiety,things like that, um, but the
IBS was like the final straw.
(03:07):
It was just something Icouldn't.
You just can't live with that.
Anyone who is listening, who'sexperienced that, will know it's
just not something you canmanage long term because it just
impacts everything you know,every aspect of your life.
So I decided to studynutritional therapy because I
would go back and forth todoctors and be told nothing came
back on your test.
It's all quote-unquote, normaland you know, just try
peppermint capsules.
(03:28):
And I'm a big believer that inanything in terms of health,
especially for women, we need tobe empowered and have the
knowledge and be able to makeinformed decisions and rather
than being at the mercy of youknow the medical profession that
sometimes don't know.
You know things that aren'tkind of in disease state, like
IBS.
They don't always have theanswers.
So, yeah, I was very much a bigbeliever of find out for
(03:49):
yourself and then you can, youknow, make the changes you need,
take back control when I wasdiagnosed, I was 13, which was
interesting to me, um, and I wasin the same situation as you is
.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
I could not put on weight and my doctor spoke to me
about, um, like I was drinkingthese terrible protein shakes
not to what they are.
I mean, that was what 30 yearsago, 30, more than 30 years ago
for me and um, the proteinshakes that we were drinking
were not what they are today.
(04:24):
The protein shakes that we weredrinking were not what they are
today.
And he wanted to do acolonoscopy and an endoscopy and
my mom was like no, becausethey kept saying something about
like stomach cancer, and mymom's like no, take a different
route.
So we ended up going to see agynecologist and through work I
(04:49):
know very odd, that thegynecologist was the one but she
started asking me questions.
She knew that I danced a lot,so she knew that I was probably
burning through all the caloriesthat I was consuming and I was
not eating enough for the amountof calories that I was
consuming and I was not eatingenough for the amount of dance
that I was doing.
And she was the one whodiagnosed me with irritable
(05:13):
bowel syndrome.
Wow so yeah, it was very yeah itwas very interesting, um so,
and it's always fascinating tome how people will go to their
doctor and their doctor willdiscuss different things about
how like it's not the food thatyou are eating, as to why your
(05:37):
stomach is having issues, andI'm like okay, what is it then?
Yes, exactly so what, um?
What have you found withirritable bowel syndrome and
possibly gut issues?
What have you tended to notice?
(05:57):
Um can help people with theirlike.
Once you're diagnosed, what?
What do you usually recommendpeople do?
Speaker 2 (06:08):
yeah, I mean in terms of irritable bowel syndrome and
IBS.
It it's a bit of acontroversial thing in terms of
a diagnosis because it's not aspecific disease.
Ibs is more a disorder thatcovers.
You know, it's like an umbrellaterm for a bunch of different
symptoms and I'm sure peoplelistening you'll know some
people can have IBS that's likediarrhea prone, or some people
(06:29):
can have it where it's morebloating and constipation.
It can be very different fordifferent people.
But something I found throughoutmy time studying and working
with clients is there tends tobe four main areas you need to
look at your IBS and they tendto be your gut microbiome, food
intolerances, inflammation inyour gut and stress.
Those are the four main areasthat you need to work on and
(06:50):
each person will be more proneto one.
So stress might be the majortrigger.
But essentially you need tolook at all four because all
four will pretty much be at playfor everybody.
It's just that one might bemore impactful than the rest and
I don't I never say to peopleto not go to their doctor.
I always encourage because youwant to get anything else ruled
out and, you know, geteverything you know more
sinister looked at and kind ofacross off the list.
(07:13):
But it's something that peopletend to experience is going back
and forth and not gettinganswers and not realizing that
if it's not in a disease statesomething like crohn's or
something like ulcerativecolitis if it's not reaching
that threshold, then the doctorsthat that's not their remit, so
they don't necessarilyspecialize in that area, but
people think they do, so theyend up going back and forth for
(07:34):
years and getting reallyfrustrated and then not knowing
there are holistic healthpractitioners who literally
specialize in in gut health yeah, well, and I love what you
mentioned with the fourdifferent things that irritable
bowel syndrome might be, becausefor myself I thought it was
stress.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
My mom ended up giving me a book about irritable
bowel syndrome and it wastalking a lot about how to
manage your stress, and I alsodealt with a lot of anxiety.
Now, as an adult, I havelearned that my IBS and this was
only because of my son that Ifound out that I'm allergic to
(08:16):
corn so anything with cornmeal,cornstarch, any kind of corn
product, affects me.
And now I can go back in mymemory and remember things that
I was eating back then, becausebefore I went to dance we would
stop at Burger King and I wouldget.
But it was like certain daysthat were it.
(08:42):
You know, it was go straightfrom school to dance and that
was on the way.
So that's what I stopped and Igot the.
It was like a chicken sandwichbut it was covered in cornmeal,
and no wonder I dealt withirritable bowel syndrome.
So the fact that you're sayingthat it is your microbiome, your
intolerances, stress right andwhat was the fourth one,
(09:07):
inflammation oh okay.
Inflammation, which is usuallycaused by possibly intolerances
for sure and this is the thingit's.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
It's so interesting when you I mean when you realize
that and you kind of have likea memory recall of like you said
all the times you would havebeen eating that and oh, it all
just makes sense and everythingjust kind of slots into place
and your brain's like, aha,that's what was going on, and
then it just all makes sense,rather than being like what is
going on with my gut and what'scausing it.
You end up just you have like aclarifying moment where
everything just seems to, yeah,fall into place and you
(09:39):
understand what was going on allthat time yeah, so how do you
work with your clients when itcomes to that?
Speaker 1 (09:46):
How do you like, is there a protocol that you follow
, or do you start one place andhow do you work through it for
those?
Speaker 2 (09:57):
Yeah.
So everything I do with withevery client we'll start with a
very in-depth health screeningand a initial consultation where
we'll look in great detail atyour health history.
Was there any um, you knowgastritis?
Was there any food poisoning?
Was there a lot of antibioticuse when you were younger or
when you were a child?
All these different things thatcan show us what probably was
(10:17):
the trigger.
Like we're looking for atrigger here.
If it was all of a sudden, outof nowhere and there was
absolutely no change, nothingthat could lead to interesting.
So that could have been a foodtolerant intoler.
Out of nowhere and there wasabsolutely no change, nothing
that could lead to, hmm,interesting.
So that could have been a foodintolerance then.
Because if there was no stress,there was no change to
medication or anything that canimpact your gut microbiome like
antibiotics.
The only other thing kind ofleft sometimes is food
intolerances.
So we'll look at what thepredominant trigger for them is
(10:39):
and then what's continuing todrive it.
But then we'll look ataddressing all four areas with a
specific focus on the maindriver for them.
So for some people I've hadpeople who are complete
opposites in clinic but presentwith the same issue.
So, people who have really badbloating, maybe acid reflux too,
and one person feels verystressed.
(11:01):
The other person feels just asstressed, but one client needs
to.
Once we remedy their gutbacteria, the stress completely
goes.
The other person feels just asstressed, but one client needs
to.
Once we remedy their gutbacteria, the stress completely
goes.
And the other person?
We can do all the work on thegut bacteria, but actually they
need to work on reducing theirstress, because stress was the
main trigger for that person,whereas the other client they
were stressed because their gutmicrobiome was so poor.
They weren't producing, youknow, and harboring, you know,
(11:26):
serotonin, all the things your,your brain, needs to function
and keep calm.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
Um, so it's very, it's very much sort of like, you
know, a jigsaw puzzle, puttingtogether all the pieces and
finding what you know, what'sspecific to that individual,
whilst keeping those four areasin mind okay and this is
something I always hearken to inmy podcast is that there isn't
just one thing, because I feellike people come when they look
(11:52):
at health and fitness and all ofit nutrition they all want just
the simple plan that everybodygets Right.
And it really isn't about that.
It's really about learningabout you and listening to your
own body 100%.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
And I say to people in clinic as well body
intelligence is a thing andwe're very, I think, conditioned
to not.
We're very conditioned to justthink science and proven facts,
which is good, and obviously weneed to utilize that and go to
science.
But also that just sometimestakes us away from our intuition
.
And I have people coming to mesaying can we do this test and
this test and all these reallyexpensive in-depth testing?
Like, yeah, sure, we can dothem, but if you're saying that
(12:35):
you know you feel sick when youeat gluten and you just have a
feeling, why don't we justaddress that first and see if
that, because some people,you'll know, in your body some
is trying to tell you something.
We've just become disconnectedfrom our body and you know,
ironically not listening to ourguts and our gut instinct and
also, like you say, there'sdifferent moving parts.
So it's having a frameworkwhere you know for people, I
(12:57):
find.
I think they find it quiteuseful to have these four
pillars that they look at, butthey're still going to be very
individual to each, each person,and it's that's not um, it's
not going to only be those fourthings.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
there'll be other other parts too, but it is being
very unique to each individualokay, and if someone is like
they're hearing this and they'relike maybe I have ibs, is there
are, and I know sort of theanswer to this, but are there
(13:28):
some key indicators as to whatmight be IBS?
Speaker 2 (13:36):
Yeah, I mean you can, to be honest, do a quick Google
search to see the mainpredominant types.
It's really not that difficultto find the information.
I think it used to be quitehard, but now it's such a common
thing that there's so much on.
You know, in the UK, like ourNHS website, we have it.
But it will be things like, youknow, irregular bowel movements
if that's loose, watery stools,diarrhea, if that's
(13:56):
constipation, not going for dayson end, or incomplete emptying.
You don't feel like you're fullygone when you've gone to the
loo.
Bloating, any like abdominalpain, you know, gurgling in the
tummy, that kind of stuff.
Those are all kind of keyindicators of IBS and they're
like the classic symptoms andthere could be other things,
which is why we always say go toyour doctor and make sure
everything else is ruled outfirst, and then, if they've done
all that ruling out, there's nokind of like Crohn's disease
(14:19):
stuff like that, then they'llprobably say, yeah, it like IBS.
And really what people say whenthey say it's IBS is that your
bowel is irritated and we don'treally know why or what's
irritating it.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
Okay, and then you mentioned gurgling and all of
these constipation diarrhea.
What is normal bathroom habits?
Speaker 2 (14:43):
Yeah, great question.
You know it's fascinatinghearing people's norms, because
everybody asks is completelydifferent.
Some people say that they don'tgo to the toilet for a couple
of days.
That is not normal.
Going so much that you arenoticing how much you're going
is also not normal.
What I say to people is ifyou're having a well-formed,
easy to pass door a couple oftimes a day, great, not to the
(15:04):
point where you're ever havingto think about it.
But if you're aware, oh my god,I really need the loo, it's
urgent.
That's a sign you shouldn'treally be having urgency.
So generally, if you're awarethat it's causing an impact on
your life, or you're awareyou're not going at all, that's
an indicator that something'sgoing wrong there.
So we're looking at a couple oftimes a day, usually after
waking.
So maybe like half an hour anhour after waking.
(15:26):
Not if you're having caffeine,because I know a lot of people
do rely on caffeine to help thempass.
That means that your gut's, youknow, slowing down and it's
needing to rely on somethingelse.
Um, but yeah, generally, goingin the morning and then again
another time during the day, aneasy to pass stool, not super
smelly, not super like difficultto pass.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
That's a good sign okay and if you do have any of
those um and maybe you can'tanswer this I was gonna say like
, if you are dealing withdiarrhea or smelly stools or um,
um, what would be another onethat I'm thinking.
(16:05):
I'm trying not to do too muchinformation around.
Okay, first, let me ask this aswell so, when we talk about
stool, what is the normal, whatshould it look like?
(16:27):
Because, like you mentioned,people drink caffeine and then
have to go to the bathroom andthat may change the consistency
of the stool.
Can you tell us what therecommended like, what it should
look like?
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Sure, I mean, if anyone wants a visual, I would
definitely recommend googlingthe Bristol stool chart because
that will show you, undoubtedly,what it should look like.
But essentially it should beform, one, one piece, one
well-formed stool.
You know, you, it's not kind ofsnake like it's not super, um,
like doesn't look slimy.
It looks like it's well formedbut not dry, um, kind of in the
middle.
So it has like a you know, notsuper liquidy consistency, but
(17:04):
it's not super dry, it's notsuper liquidy.
If it's super dark, that's abad sign.
If it's really pale or has anyyellow tinges to it, that's also
a bad sign.
That indicates that you've gotproblems with your digestion,
maybe with bile or your acidlevels in your stomach, so like
a sort of like a regular browncolour, really.
But I would definitelyrecommend it's quite hard to
(17:25):
explain it like in depth, likewith words, but go and google
Bristol stool chart and it willshow you, you know, the
different types of stool youshould be having and which ones
are the norm.
Um, and don't be, don't be shyto look after you've gone, just
make sure, like is this looking?
You know, I know we bit to boompeople.
Don't talk about it, but justhave a look and think oh, what's
?
What's my stool telling metoday?
Is this looking normal, ormaybe not so much?
Speaker 1 (17:48):
I know I always tell my children like I mean did you
look?
What are you talking about, mom?
That's disgusting.
I'm like no, it's called health.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
You need to look and make sure it looks normal it's a
key indicator and you knowanything like if you're having
mucus in your stool or ifthere's any, any blood in your
stool.
That's a sign that something'sgoing on that you want to look
at.
So yeah, I know it's notsomething that people may be
very keen on, but honestly it'spart of your body and it's
something that is such a goodindicator of what's happening in
inside your digestive tract.
(18:18):
So, yeah, I would definitelyrecommend people get familiar
with that and do you recommend?
Speaker 1 (18:24):
I know you mentioned that there are different things
that you recommend people dobased on their situation, so you
can't give us like I do thisfirst, I do this second, I do
this third.
But is there a place for peopleto start, maybe, if they are
struggling with IBS, besidesgoing to the doctor, like, is
(18:47):
there something that theyobviously they should go see
their doctor first?
I'm not meaning that, but isthere something they can start
doing initially to kind of helpguide them through this?
Speaker 2 (19:02):
situation I would say it's.
It comes in tears.
So it depends on symptoms.
Sometimes symptoms don't matterso much as what's causing them,
but sometimes they do.
For example, if someone isexperiencing chronic
constipation or incompleteemptying, or they're having to
really strain to pass the stool,the thing that everyone can do
in that situation is look at howmuch are they moving throughout
(19:23):
the day and how much are theydrinking and what quality is the
water they're drinking.
Because if you're like most ofus are sedentary, always sitting
down, always driving places,not moving guess what?
Your gut's not going to bemoving through either, and
that's a classic forconstipation.
So that's something supersimple anyone can do get up and
do a little bit of yoga, do abit of walking a couple of times
a day, just making sure you'rehelping your body to get things
(19:45):
moving.
And secondly, with water,making sure you're drinking
enough water and it's not tapwater.
Usually tap water is not verygood quality.
It can be, you know, have traceelements of not very nice
things in it.
So making sure it's highquality, filtered water, because
that's so important for yourstomach acid, for example, and
water keeps your gut lubricated.
So if you've got really poorquality water you're not
(20:07):
drinking enough, your, yourstools aren't going to be able
to move through and they'regoing to get stuck, and they're
going to be, you know, you'regoing to end up having
constipation.
So that's something that peopleexperiencing constipation can
do.
If it's diarrhea prone or maybemore bloating, first thing I
would look at is calming downbefore you start eating, making
sure that your body is in acomplete state of relaxation,
(20:28):
because as soon as you have anylevel of stress, your digestive
capability is completelycompromised.
Your blood moves away from yourdigestive tract and then what
can happen is your body thinks Ican't cope with this, I need to
get rid of it quickly, and youcan end up having diarrhea.
So those are some basic thingsthat you can start experimenting
with, obviously without itbeing more in depth, but yeah,
those are some basic things thatyou can start experimenting
with.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
Um, obviously without it being more in depth, um, but
yeah, those are some basicthings, places to start okay, um
, and you sorry about that, andyou mentioned with the eating,
and that's something that I alsorecommend to my clients just
the slowing down, because, aswomen in midlife, we are very
(21:12):
busy.
We're busy with children, we'rebusy with our family, we're
busy with our business or ourjob, and we tend to be the
people that kind of eat at the.
I feel like moms, women, eat alot standing at the kitchen sink
, things like that.
(21:32):
So how important it is to slowdown, take a breath, get your
body out of that fight or flightresponse, let it know it's a
rest and digest time.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
it's so important it really is.
And I think definitely, as youmentioned, women, specifically
women in midlife that putthemselves Let it know it's a
rest and digest time.
It's so important it really is.
And I think definitely, as youmentioned, women, specifically
women in midlife, put themselvessecond, and for lots of reasons
(22:10):
, because they either feel, youknow're always overwhelmed and
always thinking about otherpeople and you just end up
neglecting yourself basically.
But I mean, in terms of slowingdown and calming down, it sounds
so simple and so basic andalmost too easy, but it honestly
has one the biggest impact.
So if you're super stressed, itcan loosen your lower
esophageal sphincter.
Like, imagine you have elasticband at the bottom of your
esophagus that keeps the acid inyour stomach away from your
(22:31):
esophagus.
When people are stressed, itcan loosen that.
Then you can get acid reflux.
So it's so important.
Like you can't underestimatehow much of an impact it has.
And, honestly, if you're superbusy and you're like I don't
have five minutes to sit downand calm down, it can be as
simple as doing, you know, fourdeep breaths and just four
mindful breaths just to noticethat your nervous system and try
(22:51):
and calm it down a little.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
Any little thing like that that you can do is going
to help you massively okay andyou mentioned how the mindset is
one of the biggest things, notjust when you're eating but
throughout this whole situation.
Do you have recommendations ofhow to help people kind of
(23:15):
change their mindset around,maybe getting the diagnosis of
IBS or any kind of gut healthsituation?
Because it can be very scaryand uncomfortable for people, no
matter what they have, even ifit's just gas and diarrhea and
things like that, people can getnervous around that.
(23:37):
So what do you recommend forthe mindset?
Speaker 2 (23:41):
A couple of things I like to recommend radical
acceptance, acceptance andcuriosity.
I think with radical acceptance, what I mean by that is really
truly, genuinely radicallyaccepting the reality of your
situation.
That doesn't mean resigningyourself to that reality so that
, oh okay, this is just whatI've got and I've got to live
with it.
No, that's not the point.
It's really radically taking alook at where you're at and,
(24:03):
okay, at the moment I'm feelingreally bloated and I struggle to
know what's causing my symptoms, but it's causing lethargy.
Rather than trying to fightagainst that and try and you
know, I need to keep going tothe gym and maybe if I do some
sit-ups it'll make my bellysmaller or whatever.
It is just really accepting,right, this is the current
reality of my situation.
So what can I do to help myselfcare whilst I'm experiencing
(24:24):
this situation?
So it might be like, if I knowthat I'm stressed, giving myself
a few minutes to take time out,or if I know that I might have
a flare-up and have acid refluxor flatulence, giving myself
permission to not go to a socialevent if it's going to be super
uncomfortable for me, orknowing that I have safe
restaurants I can go to, and notbeing afraid to say to people
(24:44):
yeah, I'd love to go out fordinner, can we go here?
Because that's going to be somuch easier.
I'm going to have a moreenjoyable time whilst you're
working through the diagnosisand you know if you're working
with a professional to help youresolve the issues with
curiosity.
This is really, really usefulwhen you have specific triggers.
So if you have any sort ofrandom symptoms that come up and
they seem to be interchangeableand you're not really sure you
(25:05):
know they're not predictablebasically they might be you
might go weeks without havingany issue and then suddenly you
get bloated and you're like, oh,where's this coming from?
As soon as you get frustratedor overwhelmed, you won't see
the woods for the trees, likeyou won't be able to see what's
just happened five minutes agothat may have triggered that,
that issue, whereas if you juststop and just look at it through
curiosity and think, hmm,wonder what's going on here, I'm
(25:25):
suddenly bloated.
I've not experienced this for acouple I don't know days or
weeks.
Let me just think what I'vedone the last hour or so or the
last day or so and usually whenthat happens and I use this
myself I'll think oh, actuallynow I've stopped and thought
what's going on with me rightnow.
I'm really stressed and I was sostressed I wasn't even thinking
about how stressed I was,because I was just thinking
about the thing I'm stressingabout.
And then actually now I'mthinking about it, I've just
(25:48):
driven six hours back home and Ididn't eat very well and I had
loads of, like you know, snackfood on the motorway.
Like, yeah, of course that'sgoing to cause an issue.
So just having like a curiositymindset of what could be
causing it helps you to come outof a state of overwhelm and
then you're going to be moreable to see some potential
triggers, which is going to helpyou to like identify, you know,
things that are contributing toyour current situation okay,
(26:13):
and you mentioned that it couldbe based on your situation,
which you mentioned earlier, orit could be like a food
intolerance.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
I'm wondering, when you're mentioning this, could
you be in a situation where somedays you can tolerate a food,
but other days you can't Likehow that could be very confusing
to people, is that?
Oh, you know, I thought I had agluten intolerance, but then I
(26:44):
ate it the other day and it wasfine.
Well, for sure?
Speaker 2 (26:48):
yeah, absolutely.
I've actually done an episodeon this exact thing, so I'll
send you the link to put in theshow notes.
But it's you can.
You can have either, um, a levelof intolerance where, say,
someone's got gluten intolerance.
And I've had this with someone.
Said, oh, my friend's gotgluten intolerance, but only if
they eat a certain amount.
I said that doesn't sound right.
Said, oh, they can have liketoast in the morning and they're
(27:08):
fine, but then if they go outand eat a pizza they get really
bloated.
I thought, no, that doesn'tmean that they're only
intolerant to a certain amount.
It means their gut can onlyhandle a certain amount before
it triggers symptoms, but theyare going to be intolerant to it
.
So you could have had a coupleof days of eating lots of
different types of gluten, butit was like a stacking factor,
and then the final thing thatyou had was like the, the, it's
(27:28):
it kind of, you know, the strawthat broke the camel's back, so
to speak.
Or you could have some dayswhere you can eat it and it's
fine, like if you have a certainfood sensitivity or intolerance
.
But if you're really stressed,if your hormones are maybe all
over the place, maybe if you'venot been moving very much or
there's you know something goingon in your life that's made
your body not super resilient,then the food can cause a
(27:49):
symptom.
Doesn't mean that you weren'tintolerant to it before.
It's just that your body wasable to manage it better because
maybe you were in a state ofcalm or your hormones were more
regulated or, you know, yourstress levels were lower, maybe.
Yeah, so that can definitelyhappen.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
Okay.
So when that's happening, whatare you usually recommending to
people?
Because I, I, I find with a lotof my clients they want to eat
like the same thing day in andday out, and you know, I eat
this every morning for breakfast, lunch, dinner, and then the
next day I eat the same thingfor breakfast, lunch and dinner.
(28:25):
You know, like, maybe theirdinner changes, but their
breakfast and lunch are alwaysthe same and they get into this
repetitive, which is, you know,we are habitual people.
So I understand it, but couldthat be causing I know I just
asked you like two questions,but, um, could that be creating
(28:46):
some of this issue?
Speaker 2 (28:48):
yeah, potentially.
I mean, I've seen people inclinic who have eaten a very red
meat heavy diet and everythingthat you eat.
If you think, um us as people,we're hungry and we want to eat
right, we need to eat thebacteria in your gut are the
same.
They're almost like many peoplethat want to eat.
So we don't just feed on thefood that we eat.
Our bacteria do as well, andeverything you eat can either
feed or sometimes starve thosebacteria.
(29:09):
So, say you have quite a redmeat heavy diet, you have the
potential to overfeed bacteria.
That may become pathogenic.
They may cause issues.
If they overgrow and you havetoo many of them, they may cause
gas.
Equally, if you're not eatinglots of veg or fruit, you might
be starving certain beneficialbacteria that help to digest
certain foods and therefore youthen end up not being able to
(29:30):
tolerate those foods because youlack the bacteria, because
you've starved those bacteria.
So yeah, I mean for sure, youcan.
Definitely, if you're stickingto the exact same thing,
depending on what it is, youknow, depending on what the food
is, there's potential for thatto cause issue for sure.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
Okay, yeah, I usually try to recommend to my clients
to like vary it.
Just, you know, if you'rehaving oats this week, try to
find a different grain next week.
Or same thing with berries, or,you know, your fruit, whatever.
Try to change up.
It doesn't mean you got to gobuy 15 things this week, but try
(30:07):
to vary it over the month,finding different ways to help
feed the good gut.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
Yeah, and the variation is key because it's
it's not that there's any onespecific food, like with the red
meat example I mean, I don't, Idon't eat red meat but it's not
that if you eat red meat it'salways, only ever going to do
that one one thing, but if youeat too much of it or your gut
is already imbalanced, for sureit can.
So that's why we look atvariation.
Right, having a varied,balanced diet.
(30:35):
So having like the rainbowthing where you like, you want
to have a rainbow with differenttypes of fruits and veg.
So you want a little bit oforange, some deep colors, like
you know, blueberries,blackberries.
You want some darky greens.
You're getting all thedifferent kinds of colors that
that can be an easy way toremember it.
And you know, having rotations,like you mentioned, is a great,
is a great idea.
Okay.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
And I'm wondering as well, because we talked about
intolerance to certain foods andwhen you mentioned the person
who had the gluten allergy, well, well, maybe it wasn't an
allergy, so they had a glutenintolerance can you first
because I'm saying this, can youseparate the two explain what
(31:16):
the difference is between thosetwo?
Speaker 2 (31:19):
yeah sure.
So an allergy is is far moreserious.
It has more of a um that theimmune system that is activated.
The immune cells are differentso they have the potential to
put you into anaphylaxis,basically because it sees it as
an actual allergen that yourbody needs to attack.
When we say intolerance, itactivates a different type of
immune cell which can be sloweracting.
It can come on a bit moreslowly.
For some people it might beimmediate that you notice it in
(31:41):
your gut.
For other people it could takea couple of hours or even days.
But the response is generallyit's not going to be, like you
know, like an allergy,life-threatening um, necessarily
.
It's going to be maybe sloweracting, um, and the symptoms can
manifest in different ways.
So where you have allergies youtend to have like a hystermine
response.
So that could be like you know,your lips getting puffy or
(32:03):
airways closing, that kind ofthing with intolerances.
They can manifest in differentways.
So some people haveintolerances and don't even have
gut issues because the immunecells kind of move through the
body and then they get migrainesor they're really lethargic and
they just can't work out whythey're trying to sleep.
But it's just.
But it's because it's a foodintolerance and because the
immune system is slower acting,it just takes longer to to come
(32:23):
on, so it's almost moredifficult to know what you're
intolerant to in that case,which is why testing can be so
good for that okay and thenbased on the gluten intolerance
because I understand allergiesthat you would probably want to
see a doctor.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
If you're dealing with allergies, this is more
serious situation, but withintolerances, which I guess my
horn is an intolerance yeah, Ilost my train of thought, sorry.
Is there ever an opportunity tolike is it something that your
(33:03):
gut just can't handle, or is itand maybe maybe it's both, or is
it because of, like, we hear alot about the leaky gut nowadays
?
Is it more based on we've gotto get your gut healthy and then
it can tolerate it?
Like, how do you work withclients and help them with that?
(33:25):
Does it mean you're destined tonever eat gluten again?
Speaker 2 (33:30):
Sometimes, unfortunately yes, I won't beat
around the bush that is the case.
A lot of people have what wecall non--celiac gluten
sensitivity, so it won't come upin a celiac test.
You'll get tested for it andthey'll say, nope, you don't
have celiac.
But you, you have a sensitivitythat you will never overcome
because your body just can'thandle gluten.
Some people have in have moresensitivity.
So there is a differencebetween an intolerance as a food
(33:51):
that your body could justcannot handle, for example,
lactose intolerance.
If you don't produce the enzymethat breaks that down and you
never will produce it again, youwill never be able to have
lactose because, without youknow, having a symptom flare up.
Same with the gluten.
Sensitivities are different.
Sensitivities are more whereyour gut's been damaged.
You have leaky gut.
Your gut isn't able to processand handle the food.
(34:13):
In that case, if you justremove that food for for some
time and look at some gutreparation work, you should be
able to add that back in andyour gut should start to be able
to handle it.
So it really is a process of.
It's really a process.
It's hard to say, um, you knowimmediately what, that, what,
whether it's a foreverintolerance or whether it's a
sensitivity that you can kind ofrecover your gut, um, but you
(34:34):
will know, once you've done somegut work and then you
reintroduce it.
If I eat gluten now, no matterhow much I could, on my gut, I
wouldn't be able to handle it.
So that's pretty, pretty clearto me that I will never be able
to eat gluten again, um, whereassomething else that I might
have had a sensitivity to, onceI heal my gut a little bit, I
can handle it again, um, andthen I'm able to eat it again
okay now with you.
Speaker 1 (34:57):
like you just mentioned, you can't eat gluten.
What did you do to help workthrough your IBS, because you
were told you just had to livewith it forever?
Did you go through thefour-step process with yourself?
Is that how you healed yourself, or?
Speaker 2 (35:19):
pretty much.
I mean, I think, with IBS.
I realistically I don't know ifit's for some people it'll be
something they will always livewith though.
So for me I would say I stillhave IBS and it's I would call
it like in remission.
If I do certain things andcertain things can trigger it.
Some people will have a casewhere they just had one very
severe sensitivity and then then, once that food's gone, they
don't have.
They technically don't meet theIBS threshold anymore.
(35:42):
So it's different.
But for me, yes, I kind of gotmy IBS into what we'd call
remission by going through thatprocess without really realizing
I was doing it.
So I, through studyingnutritional therapy and then
realizing later on beingdiagnosed with ADHD and noticing
, oh yes, the stress and theconstant agitation and I feel
(36:03):
that in my stomach okay, I needto start doing something to
unwind my stress and calm myselfdown a bit that had a huge
impact.
Looking at populating my, mygut with beneficial bacteria,
using digestive enzymes to helpme break down food that really
helped.
And then looking at calmingdown inflammation, which for me
was fought from lots ofdifferent food sensitivities.
So I kind of did all thesedifferent things through
learning about them withoutreally realizing what I was
(36:25):
doing.
Um, and that's kind of how Idid it, but I think for me the
main things were stress and noteating properly, um, and also
having intolerance foods Ididn't realize intolerant I was
intolerant to mainly lactose andgluten okay.
Speaker 1 (36:40):
So what I'm hearing is there's a lot of things that
are involved with healing a gutand you have a podcast all about
this.
Right, can you share with us,like because cause I think you
know, like I had mentioned, thatpeople want the I'm going to do
(37:03):
this, this and this and allthings will be better, but it
really is more involved and notthat it's difficult.
Yeah, it's not difficult.
It's just having to listen toyourself and then have guidance
from someone like yourself whocan kind of help guide, to let
(37:24):
them know what to listen to.
So can you share with us whatyour podcast?
Speaker 2 (37:29):
is Sure.
So my podcast is called GutReactions.
It's all about IBS, sandero'sBowel Syndrome, and it is
basically what I like to try tocall call.
It's sort of like making IBSsort of basic and easy to
understand, because there's somuch information on IBS and it
all seems really conflicting andyou'll google and one person
will say one thing, one personwill say another thing.
(37:49):
It really is like you say.
It's not a one cure for allpeople.
There's lots of differentmoving parts.
However, that doesn't need tomean that it's complicated.
So what I like to do in myepisodes is to make it easy to
understand, so that it's moresimple to kind of like, overcome
your IBS.
So we'll look at those fourdifferent parts and how to know
which one is the maincontributing factor for your IBS
(38:11):
.
Perhaps I've got like aninteractive quiz on my podcast
as well where you can go for andcomplete that quiz and it will
tell you which one is probablythe main contributing factor for
your IBS.
Is it stress or is it gutmicrobiome, for example?
Um, so yeah, we'll look at allthese different moving parts and
how to apply it to your ownlife.
So, rather than just givinginformation, it's kind of
practical, of like, how can youactually use this to start
(38:34):
experimenting with it, to noticeany changes in your gut and,
you know, get yourself better?
Speaker 1 (38:38):
basically, because that's ultimately what we want,
right right, right, and I lovethe name gut reaction oh thank
you.
It's great, thank you.
Okay, so can you tell ourobviously listeners they can
listen to the podcast, but whereelse they can find you?
Speaker 2 (38:57):
yeah, so you can find me on instagram.
Um, I'm at ataviamanudis, soyou can find me on Instagram.
I'm at ataviamanudis bit of along name, as I'm sure, I'll put
in the show notes.
Speaker 1 (39:03):
Yes, I will.
Speaker 2 (39:04):
Thanks my Greek dad for giving me that one and on my
website, which isatavianutritioncom.
But yeah, the main place I'mactive is my podcast, and then a
little bit on Instagram too.
Speaker 1 (39:19):
And then they can learn about you through your
podcast and, yeah, perfect, Ilove it.
Thank you, oh, actually, let meask you one more question, if
people could.
If they're dealing with somegut issues, what is one thing
that they can focus on this weekto kind of help guide them
through better understandingtheir gut?
Speaker 2 (39:36):
I would say, for me it's a mindset shift of that
your gut isn't out to get youand it's not trying to cause you
issue, but it's trying to tellyou something.
And I know that might sound alittle bit like woo, woo or like
I want one thing that I can dothat's going to get rid of my
symptoms, but honestly, you haveto be honest with yourself
about where you are right nowand your gut is trying to tell
(39:57):
you something and as soon as youstart to approach out of a
level of curiosity rather thanfrustration, you're far more
likely to start to notice linksbetween certain situations, be
it stress, be it food, whateverthat might be.
So, yeah, that would be myadvice.
Speaker 1 (40:10):
I love it.
Thank you so much for takingtime out of your day for this
conversation yeah, it was great,was great.
Speaker 2 (40:16):
Yeah, it's lovely.
Thanks for having me on Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 (40:25):
I hope you enjoyed this episode and found something
to take away to help youpractice healthier habits, move
more or handle the midlife andaging with grace.
If you enjoyed this episode,please share it with a friend or
leave us a review to help usreach more moms, just like you.
Share it with a friend, orleave us a review to help us
reach more moms.
Just like you.
Head to movingthroughmidlifecomto join the free community or
(40:47):
learn how you can move more andfeel better in your daily life.
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