May 23, 2025 • 38 mins
Charlie Angus, a former Canadian MP and all-around cool dude, dives deep into the wild ride of U.S.-Canada relations in this episode, and let me tell ya, it’s a doozy! He spills the tea on how Trump’s antics flipped the script on Canada’s self-perception and its relationship with the U.S., turning friendly vibes into some serious “WTF” moments. Angus shares how the Canadian public is rallying together against the rising tide of disinformation and political manipulation, spurred on by a newfound sense of unity and urgency. They also chat about the power of music, the importance of standing up for democracy, and the hilarious yet poignant cultural differences that can make or break international friendships. And of course, there’s a healthy dose of humor and puns as they navigate the muck of politics—because who doesn’t love a good laugh amidst the chaos?
The podcast hits the ground running with an electrifying discussion between David Wheeler, Colonel Mo Davis, and Charlie Angus, a former member of the Canadian Parliament. Right from the bat, Wheeler brings a lighthearted feel as he juggles the idea of writing a book on Lauren Boebert while simultaneously lamenting the changing tides of US-Canada relations under Trump’s administration. Angus’s humor shines as he reflects on the absurdity of being perceived as a foe rather than a friend, something that seems straight out of an alternate reality.
As the trio delves deeper, the conversation shifts from humorous anecdotes to a more serious exploration of how Trump’s presidency has awakened a sense of urgency in Canadians. Angus passionately argues that the attacks from the US have forged a newfound unity among Canadian citizens, illustrating how they’ve rallied together under the banner of resistance. With clever quips and cultural references, Angus captures the mood of a nation that has gone from complacent to combative, ready to defend its identity against external threats. The discussions around cultural phenomena, like the catchphrase “elbows up,” take center stage as a symbol of this newfound militancy, showcasing how humor and activism can intertwine in the face of adversity.
In the final act, the podcast takes a delightful detour into music, where Angus candidly shares his preference for Tragically Hip over Rush, eliciting laughs and playful dissent from his co-hosts. The episode culminates in a powerful message about the importance of engagement and awareness in the political landscape. The hosts encourage listeners to stay informed and united, reminding everyone that the fight against tyranny is a collective endeavor, enriched by humor and a bit of elbow-throwing spirit.
Takeaways:
- In this episode, they explore the unexpected ways Trump's presidency has united Canadians against perceived threats from the U.S., showing how political dynamics can shift rapidly.
- Charlie Angus emphasizes the importance of resistance in the face of misinformation, highlighting how ordinary Canadians are becoming more politically aware and active.
- They discuss the deep-seated cultural connections between the U.S. and Canada, challenging the narrative that divides them into enemies and allies.
- The discussion touches on the growing militancy among Canadians to defend their values and identity in reaction to U.S. political rhetoric and actions.
- Charlie humorously reflects on the cultural phenomenon of 'elbows up' as a rallying cry, showing how humor can unite people in serious times.
- They conclude with a call for people to stay engaged and informed, reminding listeners that resisting tyranny and disinformation is a shared responsibility.
Links referenced in this episode:
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:08):
Welcome to MUCK YOU!, thepodcast that digs into the dirt and
dishes it straight. Don't missan episode. Follow us on your favorite
podcast platform. Give us ashout out on Blue sky and American
Muckrakers. And head toamericanmuckrakers.com to learn more
or toss a few bucks our way tokeep the muck flowing. I'm your host,
David Wheeler here in SprucePine, North Carolina, and I'm currently
(00:30):
knee deep in writing a bookabout Lauren Boebert. The working
title Beatle, Browse and BadDecisions, A Muckraker's Guide to
Boebert's Blunders. Got abetter title? Hit me up. Joining
me is my co host, the sharpand fearless Colonel Mo Davis, retired
Air Force colonel, formerGuantanamo prosecutor, and now a
(00:52):
candidate for Congress inNorth Carolina's 11th district. Let's
get muck and Mo.
All right, so welcome back,everybody, and thanks for joining
us again. And continuing ourtradition of interesting guests today,
we've got Charlie Angus, whountil recently was a member of the
Canadian Parliament, servedfor almost 21 years there, and just
(01:14):
left office a couple of monthsback. In addition to that, he's a
written a number of books,he's a, a musician, and someone that
I think is a little upsetabout relations between the U.S.
and Canada. So, Charlie, thankyou so much for, for doing this today.
Well, thank you so much forhaving me on the program, folks.
(01:36):
We've got to keep theseconversations going in this time
of rampant disinformation.
We do. And, you know, for mywhole life, I always thought that,
you know, Canada was ourfriend and Russia was our enemy.
And until Trump came along, Ididn't realize I had it asked backwards.
So why do you guys hate us?
Well, you. No. Donald Trumptalked about the nastiest country
(01:59):
he's ever dealt with. Hedidn't talk about Putin's Russia
and horrific war crimes there.He didn't talk about North Korea.
It's U.S. canada. And so, youknow, there's this tendency people
are always, well, Trump'sbeing Trump. But over Christmas break,
the, the insults and theattacks became stronger and clear
(02:20):
and more menacing. And hehasn't really backed down. Some of
the media pretend he has, buthe hasn't. And overnight, we've seen
an unprecedentedtransformation of Canada and our
sense of self and ourwillingness to fight for what we've
just taken for granted for solong. So if Trump has done one thing,
(02:41):
he's really brought ustogether. He's woken us up on the
need to know what's what'sworth fighting for, know what's valuable
and, and not be afraid.
Yeah, I saw, I guess it wasyesterday that Prime Minister Carney
met with Frederick Merce at a,I think in Italy at a meeting. And
it's interesting that, youknow, in Canada, you know, I would
(03:05):
guess a year ago this time,the betting odds on Mark Carney winning
were pretty slim. And then inGermany, Frederick Merce and more
recently in Romania with NikuSordan. So Trump has had some, somewhat
of a positive effect, at leastoutside the US in bringing people
to their senses.
(03:26):
Well, certainly, I mean, I, I,there's two interesting elements
there. First, of course, isthe fact that the Liberals government
were, they were a, they werethe walking dead. Until Trump's attacks,
all of their key people wereretiring to spend time with family
because they didn't want toget slaughtered at the polls. Canada's
MAGA maple leader, Pierre Pov,was running the MAGA playbook to
(03:48):
a te. And once Trump startedthreatening us, Pierre POV's lead
disintegrated, a 25 point leadovernight almost. And Mark Carney,
who nobody would have thoughtcould have done it, came in and,
and the reason he came in, Ithink, is that Canadians were looking
for a wartime style primeminister and Carney was able to capture
(04:11):
that moment. And, you know,seeing him over in Europe and seeing
him now talking with Franceand the UK about taking on Netanyahu
and demanding action over thestarvation in Gaza, this is now international
relations being conducted.Without the United States, that never
would have happened before. Wewould have always gone first to Washington
to talk, seeing that this wasour closest ally then talking with
(04:35):
Europe. Now we see the PrimeMinister is over in Europe working
with European leaders on whatwe need to do in an age of gangster
regimes.
Yeah, it's amazing. I, youknow, if you go back 10, 15, 20 years,
the, the notion of, you know,turning our back on our friends and
our allies and embracing ourenemies. I mean, I, I served with
(04:57):
members of the Canadian armedforces over the years and spent a
lot of time training with aview towards our adversary being
Russia. And all of a suddenPutin's our best friend and you guys
hate us. And it's just hard toimagine that we ended up in the place
where we are. But it is whatit is. I mean, you guys are a diverse
(05:18):
country like we are, and Iguess there's no general consensus.
But what, what's kind of themood there with what's happened?
Well, I think it's a reallyinteresting point. Yeah. Canada,
you know, we have right, wehave left, we have north, we got
south. We love squabbling. Imean, we love squabbling with each
other. It's our favoritepastime. And we never really thought
(05:39):
much about who we are. We area nation of likable slackers, you
know, and I. I say thatbecause, like, in the Second World
War, we were a nation of 11million people, and we had the fourth
largest air force in theworld, fourth largest navy. Our young
people went and fought anddied everywhere. Every. Anybody who's
(06:00):
born in Canada, their uncle orgrandfather either served or is lying
in a grave someplace else. Andsuddenly to be attacked like this
has brought out a feeling thateight months ago would have been
unpressed. It just wouldn't.People couldn't have imagined it.
So, say, for example, like,you talked about serving alongside
(06:20):
Canadians, when JD Vance saidthat he was tired of hearing sob
stories from Canada aboutbeing an ally, the rage I heard in
the coffee shops was, I mean,J.D. vance is dead to us. There's
nothing he could ever do orsay to come back because we lost
(06:40):
a lot of young people inKandahar. That was a hellhole. And
we went, why did we go? Wewent because the United States asked
us to go. And then to say,these are sob stories. So, you know,
we don't wave the flag a lotin Canada, but when someone insults
us like that, well, okay, nowthat, as we say in hockey, the gloves
(07:01):
are dropped. So that's. That'sthe mood right now. There's a real
militancy to defend and. Andto push back. I think our. Some of
our leaders are trying totiptoe around, trying to, you know,
keep the orange felon, hopingthat he won't notice us. But ordinary
people, you talk to them,they're ready to go to the wall.
Yeah, I wasn't familiar withthe. You know, I'm not a huge hockey
(07:24):
fan, I have to admit, but Iwasn't familiar with the phrase elbows
up. But I guess that's becomesome. Something of a rallying cry
as well.
Well, how it happened is. Isreally extraordinary. So Mike Myers,
you know, a lot of all ourbest comics go to the States. And
so there was the night onSaturday Night Live, just when this
was beginning, and we weresuddenly realizing that the kind
(07:45):
of threats he was makingagainst us was. It suddenly felt
like Ukraine prior to Putin'sattack. And we were very disoriented,
and there was a lot of fear ofwhat was going to happen. And Mike
Myers appeared on SaturdayNight Live, and he had the Canada's
not for Sale T shirt. And, andpeople just, you know, loved it.
It was like Mike Myersreminding us that he was a hometown
(08:07):
boy. But at the end of it, he,he was standing on stage, you know,
when they all come out on snl.And I didn't watch it, but my brother
called me. He said, did yousee what Mike did? Did you see what
he did? And I said, yeah, hehad the T shirt. He said, no, no,
no. He mouthing the wordselbows up. And I was like, oh, my
God, that's the secret code.We're all hockey nuts here. So that
(08:29):
was Bobby or that was Gordy.How Mr. Elbows, when you went into
the corners with Gordie, howyou got the elbow in the face. And
so when, when they called himMr. Elbows, that was, that was someone
who was going to make you pay.And overnight that became this rallying
slogan. And it was sort ofsuch a Canadian thing. And it was
Mike Myers saying that. Andthe next thing you know, the Prime
(08:52):
Minister is using it in his,in his election ads. And, and it
hasn't been cheapened yet.People here, I mean, there's Elbows
up songs, Elbows Up T shirts.I got Elbows up chocolates from this
Syrian family that came hereafter the war. And they, they're
making great guns, sellingElbows up chocolate, Elbows up everywhere
right now.
All right, well, listen, your,your party in the most recent election
(09:16):
didn't fare particularly well.And it seems like you're part of
the National Democratic Party,and certainly here in the U.S. our
Democratic Party kind of gotshellacked back in November. How
do we, how do we rebuild? Imean, I know we're trying to figure
that out here, and I imagineyou are up there. How do we. How
(09:37):
do we. It seems like we'velost the trust of the working class
people.
That's a really importantconversation. And I think that I'm
hoping that in the newDemocratic Party we're going to have
honest conversations. But wegave up the working class, we gave
up rural people. I always saidit around our caucus table. It seemed
(10:00):
that we didn't. We wouldprefer to have a better base than
ours. We wanted a cooler,hipper, you know, more diverse, but
we weren't speaking toordinary people. But I think what
ended up happening, why we gotwiped out so badly, is that when
Trump came in, the leadershipin my party didn't shift gears and
(10:22):
thought that this was going tobe just like another election. I
was. Felt like Cassandra atthe last caucus meeting. I said to
them, just before the electionwas called. I said, what year do
you guys live in? I'm livingin 2025, and it seems like you're
living in 2023, and the worldhas changed. And I think they bet
the House that they weren'tgoing to have to deal with the Trump
(10:45):
threat. And I think Canadiansresponded to the Trump fear. So I
know a lot of people who votedfor Mark Carney, knowing that we
were losing, who are hardcoreNew Democrats, but said to me, I
was terrified of Trump. I feltwe had to do what we had to do. So
I'm hoping that those numberswill not be replicated. But clearly
(11:09):
the Democrats have, have a,have to do their job. I mean, I don't
know, it's sort of become abutt of a joke up in Canada where,
like, are the Democrats there?Are they going to do something like
this? We're talking about thesuspension of the rule of law. Like,
where is the opposition? Andif people don't see that, if they
don't see a coherent voice,they're either going to disengage
(11:30):
or they're going to go to theother side. And, and I think we've,
we failed them.
I think, I think you're right,Charlie. And as a lifelong Democrat,
I'm asking the same question,you know, where the hell are the
table pounders? Where the,where are the people that are going
to risk some politics or somepolitical capital here in the, in
(11:51):
this country? You have, you'redoing it in Canada. You're, you're
on a, you've been on a tourlately. You're out there rallying
folks to rebel against this inthe United States. And I'm wondering
if, if you could potentiallyrelocate and run for the Congress
down here. We'll get you citizenship.
(12:12):
Well, well, listen, I'mgetting, the amount of calls I'm
getting from across the USRight now is amazing. When Trump
got elected, I woke up thenext morning and I knew we were in
completely uncharted waters. Iknew that we'd crossed the Rubicon
and that the threat ahead ofus was the threat to democracy. I
didn't know how bad it wasgoing to get, and I don't know how
(12:34):
bad it will get, but I knew Ihad to do something. So I started
to use what time I had left inParliament. I'd made the decision
after 21 years to leave, and Isort of became a rally in focus because
I realized that people neededto hear a clear vision. They needed
to hear that opposition, butnot just opposition, but hope and
determination. So I've been onthis tour. People are asking me to
(12:58):
travel everywhere. We get 500people in Edmonton, 350 in a small
town on a Monday night insouthern Ontario, 400 here. And there's
a real determination right nowto, to defend. And I'm trying to
build this sense of that wecan, can resist. And I'm getting
(13:18):
a lot of really greatcommentary and, and connections in
the US but crossing the borderright now, I don't think so. I don't
want to end up in an ElSalvadorian prison camp as, I mean,
if, if, if, if he's going topick a fight with the boss, he's
surely not going to give meany, any, any fair, fair view if
I try and cross that border.
(13:39):
Yeah, well, I, I think thesame would go for Mo and myself on
the way.
Yeah.
Stay where you are.
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Well, andit, honestly, it's a, it's a genuine
concern. Where are we going?Where are we going from here? You
know?
Well, you know, I.
Go ahead.
I just wanted to say, youknow, I was at a protest at the American
Consulate last month that I'dheard. I didn't, I wasn't planned.
(14:01):
I was just in the city and I.In Toronto and I went there and it
was a whole bunch of reallyordinary people, not political types.
And a woman came up to me andshe was wearing a Covid mask and
she said, I'm a dual citizen.What should I do? And she was looking
up at the consulate windows.Now, I don't want to be paranoid
enough to think that they werephotographing and documenting, but
(14:24):
I don't know. And I said toher, I think you should go home.
I don't think you should behere. I don't think you should put
yourself on the line if youhave to go back and see family in
New York next month. And whatkind of world are we living in where
someone wears a mask to standoutside the American Embassy? I mean,
this is the kind of thing thatpeople from, you know, dissidents
(14:44):
from North Korea would do.This isn't something that you would
see in a city like Torontofrom an, a dual citizen who is afraid
to even come out and be seen.And, and me giving her advice to,
that it would be safer to gohome. Like, we can't allow that to
happen. We can't allow that tobecome the norm.
That's absolutely right. And,and I think, you know, for some context,
(15:08):
I was in Washington in Marchwith my son. I was attending a conference
and he decided to come alongwith me, he's 12, and I promised
him. After the conference wasover, we actually were working with
Mark Cuban on a project there,and Mark got on his plane and went
home, and, And I said, well,Nico, let's go do some poke stops,
(15:29):
because he's a big Pokemanguy. And we started out towards the
White House, and we walked bythe Treasury Building right next
to the White House, and Iwalked by this plaque, and I, and
I looked down and I said, Iread it. And Nico and I read it together,
and it was commemorating theWebster ashburton treaty of 1842.
(15:50):
And, you know, we're notreally taught that in our schools
here. Except for 183 years,we've had a treaty with Canada. You've
been our partner for 183years. I think it's one of the longest
treaties we've ever had.
Yeah, yeah.
And Americans don't understandthat. A lot of Canadians probably
don't either. But how the. Didthat all go down the tubes in a matter
(16:16):
of months?
Well, it's. It. It is astaggering thing to consider, particularly
given the rise of Putin andthese gangster regimes, that we would
become public enemy numberone. And in terms of the impacts,
Canadians have now undertakena full boycott. This wasn't launched
(16:42):
from the top, but you go intoa grocery store anywhere, you're
not going to see Americanproduce. Like nothing. We're getting
our produce from Mexico, fromPeru. This has completely transformed
the whole supply chain of, of,you know, of greens and, and fresh
vegetables and fruits that wedon't normally get in winter. It's
all now coming out of Mexico,as opposed to what we used to always
(17:04):
get. We got California, our,Our. Our wine and liquor stores.
I mean, the boycott is. Theypulled everything off the shelves.
The Ontario Liquor ControlBoard, the lcbo, is the largest purchaser
of spirits in the world. Andon day one, when the threat happened
(17:25):
with the tariffs, it was allpulled right from the shelves. Nothing.
So this is. This isextraordinary. I think our air Travel
is down 70, 75%. And when you,when stories keep coming out of people
being pulled out of air, outof, you know, the airline passport
control place and being putinto detention, now they're talking
(17:47):
about a $12.5 billion loss on,on tourism in the United States.
That's not just Canada, butthat's Europe as well. I mean, this
guy's turned the United Statesfrom favorite destination into pariah
state in just over 100 days.And it's costing thousands, hundreds
of thousands of jobs. This is,this has got to there's got to be
(18:08):
a breaking point that we reachhere or things are going to get much
worse.
I agree again, you're righton, Charlie. You know, the other
thing that irritates theabsolute fuck out of me is the fact
that, you know, we talkedabout this a little bit earlier,
the fact that we have reallyno opposition here. You know, you
(18:32):
turned me, I saw you give aspeech. It must have been back in,
maybe it was March, maybe lateFebruary, where you talked about
the gangster regime. You usewords that normal people can understand,
I can't think of. And I loveHakeem Jeffries. You know, I think
(18:54):
Chuck Schumer's a good guy. Doyou see any Americans that are connecting
with folks or, or part of theresistance that you think we need?
I'm watching for it. I mean,I, I see Bernie Sanders and AOC are
doing their thing. They'vesort of always done their thing.
(19:16):
I'm, I'm really feeling aconcern of not seeing sort of that
ordinary middle of the roadcongress person who said, wait a
minute, what the heck justhappened here? No, I'm not going
to do that. Because if peopledon't stand up, then all manner of
abuses become possible. I'mvery concerned here in Canada. I,
(19:37):
I, I follow the, you know, themedia coverage, and it's like nobody
wants to say what is obvious.And they hope that it'll, if we just
pretend that this is just someblip, that life will go back to normal.
Like, I was in the car theother day and there was, there was
a Democrat, I guess he wassomebody important. I didn't get
(19:57):
his name. And he was talkingabout the midterms. I was like, are
you kidding me? People arebeing kidnapped off the street. Judges
are being arrested at thecourthouse, and you're talking about
waiting until the midterms. Ifthat's your strategy, there may not
be midterms. Like, we have tocall this out. And the language that
I've been using about dealingwith gangster regimes, about the
(20:21):
rise of tyranny. If I had saidstuff like that three years ago,
I'd probably be given my ownconspiracy channel where a lot of
other loopy people get to rantand rave about this Illuminati. But
right now, that's the languagethat's passing the nod test because
ordinary people see it. Whatwe don't see is the leadership from
(20:44):
the courts, from the peoplethat stand up and just do the right
thing, and it's their job todo the right thing. Where the hell
are they yeah, I've.
Tried to peel the onion backand get to the core of this. And
I still think that the strangerelations between the U.S. and Canada
is Trudeau's fault. Becauseyou've seen that picture where Melania
(21:07):
Trump is looking up at himlike, oh, yeah, I'd hit that.
Yeah.
But, you know, Trump's avindictive person, and I think that's
as good a reason as any forhim to turn on Canada. That look
that his wife was giving theformer prime minister.
Well, yeah, it also could bebecause we, you know, ideas like
(21:27):
diversity and equity andinclusion, we don't really think
that that's a problem. Like,isn't that what a democratic nation
does? It's like, we're like,you're. You're that freake out. You.
I mean, God, you took IraHayes off your Pentagon website.
What the hell is that? You know?
Well, I tell. It's kind ofscary. I was looking at some polling
today and, and Trump's numbersare actually up from where they were.
(21:52):
He's approching 50% approvalin, in some of the polls. So, you
know, the reality is a lot ofAmericans like what he does. But
it was interesting. The NewYork Times kind of done a deeper
dive and they found that thepeople that approved of Trump, that
about half of them weren'taware of most of the things that
(22:15):
he had done, the big things,and the people that disapproved of
him were aware. So if peoplefind out, if they get the news and
are educated, then they have alower opinion of him. But he's, he's
doing everything he can hereto suppress the truth. You know,
he, the right wing hereliterally owns social media. Yeah.
(22:38):
And they've beaten themainstream media into submission.
You may have seen, you know,we have the, the big three networks
here, but the producer for,you know, Big show here is 60 Minutes.
The producer quit a couple ofweeks back, and now the head of.
Of news for CBS has quitbecause they're knuckling under.
(22:58):
And so I'm just worried thatthe public is not going to get the
truth. And I think that's thestrategy that Trump is employed,
is to try to wear down themedia so that he can keep the folks
from learning about his conduct.
I think it's a really. Again,I've been telling people at the rallies
(23:19):
that I am at, you know, thatwe are in a unique moment in Canada.
We've really shown the world.I get messages from all over the
world saying we want to bestrong Canada. You know, nobody's
ever said that before, butthey're saying that now, but that
it's a fragile line that we'reholding. And the, the, the MAGA attack
on our country is going fullout in terms of disinformation. And
(23:43):
it's something, again, themainstream media don't want to talk
about it. It's, I thinkthey're spooked by it, but also they
don't know how to frame it.But the attacks on Mark Carney as
prime minister, on all thesefake sites, know, I don't know how
many of them are Russiandisinformation sites. Attacks on
(24:05):
Canada undermining our nation,attempts to divide us from the west,
from the East. You see thisseparatist movement that suddenly
rose up, you know, whenAlberta has like the highest income
in the country now, sayingthey want to be their own country.
Danielle Smith, their premier,she's total maga. So unless we're
(24:25):
paying attention and watchingactually how it's played out in the
United States, it's going toplay out here in Canada. The upside
for us, and it sucks for youguys, but you went first into the
MAGA hole with the election ofTrump, and it's given us at least
a really clear picture ofwhat's coming if we don't keep our
guard up. But we really doneed to keep that guard strong.
(24:49):
Yeah. You know, in 2016, whenhe, when he won, then again this
time, you know, the day afterthe election, my wife and I spent
most of the day on theInternet looking at real estate overseas.
And you know, one of ourfavorite, we have a friend that lives
here that has a place up onQuadra island, and we were up there
last year. And, and I'm not abig fan of big cities, but if I had
(25:13):
to live in one, Vancouverwould be really high on my list.
But, but you guys won't let usin anyway. Can we get you to change
that and let us the good onescome up?
Well, I've been a bigsupporter of that. When I was younger,
there were a whole whack ofpeople who'd come up during the Vietnam
War, and they actually madeour communities a lot more interesting.
(25:35):
And they were involved in allkinds of stuff. And some went back,
some stayed. I still got somewho live up the road from me. And
it's like, we should do that.I think it would be a good thing.
But one thing we do want toencourage people, people are very
worried about the responsethey'll get in Canada. Come on up.
Just let everyone know youdidn't vote for my son in law is
(25:58):
a jazz musician, was inMontreal, great jazz city. And he
said there were four tables inthis little club who are all American.
The first thing they said iswe didn't vote for him. And it's
like, okay, you're up. You'reperfectly okay. You can stay and
have a great time. But ifyou're Meg, I leave your hat at home.
Or maybe just stay home.
All right. Well, I guess ifyou do come back to the states, you're
(26:18):
not going to be going toTexas. Texas to visit Greg Abbott.
Well, you know, that son of a.
Doesn't deserve to have Charlie.
I'm not going to a state. Butyou know what really struck me again,
people are making a realsacrifice in this boycott. So I got
a call the other day from awoman. She didn't want to give me,
(26:41):
she didn't want me to tell herstory with her name. But she comes
from a very conservativereligious background and she studied
for years, years to get herdiploma through correspondence out
of a Bible seminary inPennsylvania. And she's decided not
to go to her graduationbecause she didn't want to break
(27:03):
the boycott. So there's a hugepersonal cost there in terms of Texas.
South by Southwest is thebiggest musical gathering in the
world for alternate artists.And we have musicians that go down
every year. They made anannouncement that Canadian acts had
decided not to go. So thoseare people who are losing career
opportunities in order to holdthe line. So if they're not going
(27:28):
to Texas, then no, I'm notgoing either.
Well, good for you. Again,Abbott doesn't deserve no good people
at Canada and their money down there.
Yeah.
So you, you decided not to runfor real action, correct?
Yes. Yes.
And how did you come to thatconclusion? You just felt like it
was time to move on or whatwas your thought process there?
(27:50):
Well, my constituency isbigger than the United Kingdom and
so I mean, I get into some ofmy communities in little float planes
because there's no roads veryfar north and I love the people.
But they decided in thelatest. We don't have gerrymandering
in Canada. We have somethingthat is just so much more perfectly
(28:11):
bureaucratic. We outsource ourgerrymandering to like a group of
three academics who just drawlines on the map. And they decided
that our rural population wassomehow over represented in Parliament.
So they threw on an extra20,000 square kilometers, about a
dozen more communities,hundreds of miles of roads. About
eight of those communitiesspeak only French, which is okay.
(28:33):
I get along pretty Cool in theFrench communities. But I was like,
I am not going to do all thaton top of representing a region bigger
than the United kingdom. Soafter 21 years, I thought it was
time to step out. And then theTrump thing happened. And I've been
busier now than I've ever beenin terms of my political work. My,
one of my assistants from theHill came with me and we're, we're
(28:57):
out all the time trying toorganize, trying to work with people,
trying to respond to people'sneeds in terms of resisting Trump.
So I think it was fortuitous.I mean, 21 years to, to survive,
21 years in the House is not alot of people get that far. And my
old man who did everything,terms of boxing metaphors would say
(29:17):
to me, he said, no greatheavyweight ever got beat by heavy.
Another great heavyweight, healways got beat by a bum because
he stayed in the ring toolong. And my dad used to say, don't
ever stay too long in thering. So 21 years seemed like the
right time. And it, it's givenme now the freedom to, to take this
fight against tyranny on fullon and, and, and not have to worry
that I'm offending someone inthe leader's office.
(29:40):
Yeah, good for you. Good foryou. That's a lot of travel to and
from Ottawa, for goodness sakes.
Yeah, well, I mean that whereI live, we count, we count everything.
Not by miles or kilometers,but by hours.
So, so what's next for you?You're on this tour, Resistance Tour
throughout your country.What's next?
(30:02):
Well, I mean, it's full on. Sothe Resistance Tour continues. I
have Charlie Angus, ResistanceSubstack, which has become pretty
much a full time job of WR oneverything from what Robert Kennedy
Jr. Is doing to deconstructingdisinformation. My band, Grievous
Angels, are going back in thestudio, we're doing some big shows.
(30:27):
I had always played music andI couldn't do that while I was in
politics. So we're going backin the studio for our 10th album.
I'm working on a new book,roughly entitled in the Time of Monsters,
which is really about the, the1930s and the connections to today.
And I, I, I track that rise ofthe darkness and the fascism and
(30:50):
the civil unrest through thenorthern mining communities that
I'm from. I really wanted tofocus on what it meant in a particular
place and it's just, it's tooprescient because we are in the time
of monsters, as Gramsci says.
That's an apt description ofTrump if I've ever heard one. So
(31:11):
the tour, your musical career,and any chance that we could. We
could get you to come to theStates and do something down here?
Well, you know, I've had a lotof requests to come down. I'm wary
for two reasons. One is we'vebeen telling people to keep the boycott
(31:33):
strong. So if the guy who'stelling people to keep the boycott
strong doesn't. That's a. Youknow, I. Concerned about that, but
just very. We don't trust. Idon't trust the border right now.
My. I was talking to someyoung university professors who told
me that they're told if theygo to do research, I mean, all these,
you know, research programs,cross border, blah, blah, that they
(31:56):
can't go without taking aburner phone because they're afraid
of what will happen if they'researched. So you're having to bring
a burner phone when you're a,you know, a humanities professor.
So I figure if they'reworried, a loudmouth like me, man,
I'm. I'd definitely be in forit. So. Yeah, I don't.
I don't think they have theballs to mess with guys like you,
(32:18):
to be honest with you. I thinkit's the immigrants that don't speak
very good English that maybedon't have the resources to fight
them. They're chasing, andthey use them as a scapegoat.
Yeah, Yeah.
I. I think the same thing forprobably Mo and me, because, you
know, we do have a publicfollowing, a public Persona. Most
(32:40):
people don't like me. Theylike Mo, but I think they would stick
up for me. But I don't thinkthat would mess with you if you came
to this country. But let metoss it back to Mo for one more,
and then. Okay, for sure,we're going to close out.
Yeah.
After that.
Yeah. Oh, we've. We've coveredall the light stuff. I wanted to
ask a serious question, andyou brought up your band, Grievous
(33:02):
Angels. But which is thebetter band, Rush or the Tragically
Hip?
Oh, well, I'm hoping this isreally an American audience. I hate
Rush. I always hated Rush. Ihated him in high school. I was like
the dissident. You know,people still get mad at me. Tragically
Hip. Okay, so if you don'tknow Tragically Hip, you know, when
(33:22):
Gord Downey, the singer, wasfound to have brain cancer and I.
I knew Gord not well, but we.We traveled in the same circles.
And Gord Announced he wasgoing to do one last tour across
Canada. And he did it to raiseawareness of the indigenous children
who had been stolen and takenaway by the church and the government,
(33:44):
to erase their identity. Andthat tour was such a profound moment.
Like, there was a guy dying,and the last thing he was going to
do was to cross the country totell us how we had to reconcile ourselves
with our indigenous history.And so Gord and the tragically hip,
anywhere you go, if you're ata. If you're at a party out in somebody's
(34:07):
backyard and someone startssinging the hip, everyone sings along.
So. But for all those Rushfans out there, sorry I offended
you, but I'm just beinghonest. Now that I'm not in politics,
I don't have to worry that theleader's office are going to say,
did you really say that aboutRush? No, that's. That. That's not
a demographic we want tooffend. But I just love that. I mean,
(34:27):
again, he's a great guy.Getty. I know. I don't know Getty,
but I know a lot of peopleknow him. He's a great guy. Alex
Lifeson, Great guy. Neil Pert,who passed away. People loved him.
I just didn't like the band.
Well, I'm a guitar player, andI always had a lot of respect for
Alex Lifeson. Yeah, Just aremarkable guitar player.
Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.You know, they were all incredible
(34:49):
musicians. So.
Speaking of musicians, do youever run across the guy named Barry
Stagg?
No, who's that?
He was from Nova Scotia. Ithink he sang quite a bit in the
Toronto region back in the 60sand 70s, and he relocated down here.
(35:09):
I'm a big fan of Nova Scotia.Annette Versurin's a good friend,
and I've been up to her partof the world many times, and. And
I've had a. Had the chance totry some Glenn Breton whiskey. Have
you had it?
Glenn Breton's very good. My.My mom's. They come out of Nova Scotia.
(35:32):
They were coal miners thatcame out of Nova Scotia, so that's
where I learned how to singthat. All that traditional maritime
Cape Breton music. Yeah. So.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So my mom. My mom likes thatGlenn Breton. Yes, it's good.
All right. And what aboutbourbon? Are you a bourbon guy? Because
Mo's a big bourbon guy.
Well, you know, you can't buybourbon in Canada anymore. We took
it off the shelves.
(35:53):
Well, I was trying to slipthat one in there.
Yeah, but. But so once we tookbourbon off the shelves, we said,
well, what do we have? Andthen people started telling us about
all these great stuff.Okanagan bourbon, great. Apparently
my son in law loves it. Peopleare telling me, great, there's some
great whiskeys coming out ofAlberta. And you know, maybe when
(36:14):
this thing's all settledsomeday we'll be, we'll be sharing
those drinks again. But rightnow, good luck trying to find it
in Canada. And nobody wouldbuy it if, if they could. So sorry
about bourbon.
Yeah. All right. Well,Charlie, we really appreciate your
time and, and joining our showtoday. And that's a wrap for this
episode of munkh. Huge thanksto Charlie Angus, our guest from
(36:37):
Canada today bringing the heatand insight. Keep up with us on Blue
sky at American muckrakers.Visit americanmuckrakers.com to learn
more about us and considertossing a few bucks our way to fuel
the muckraking mission.Charlie, give us your website one
more time.
Charlie Angus, the resistancesubstack&charlieangus ca cool.
(37:00):
Until next time. Stay curious,keep digging and when you've had
enough of maga, tell them Muck you.
This has been Muck you. Cohosted by Colonel Mo Davis in Asheville,
North Carolina and DavidWheeler in Spruce Pine, North Carolina.
Thanks to our guest today, thehonorable Charlie Angus, former member
(37:21):
of the Canadian Parliament.Learn more about charlie@charlieangustherassistants.substack.com
or charlieangus.ca Specialthanks to Jan on Charlie staff for
helping set up this episode.Muck you is produced by American
Muckrakers. Copyright 2025.You can learn more and donate at
American Muckrakers.com followus on Blue sky under American Muckrakers.com
(37:44):
and onsubstack@AmericanMcKrakers.substack.com David
and Mo hope you all come backsoon for a new episode. And remember
to never take from anyone,especially Trumpers.
Welcome to MUCK YOU!, thepodcast that digs into the dirt and
dishes it straight. Don't missan episode. Follow us on your favorite
podcast platform. Give us ashout out on Blue sky and American
Muckrakers. And head toamericanmuckrakers.com to learn more
or toss a few bucks our way tokeep the muck flowing. I'm your host,
David Wheeler here in SprucePine, North Carolina, and I'm currently
(00:30):
knee deep in writing a bookabout Lauren Boebert. The working
title Beatle, Browse and BadDecisions, A Muckraker's Guide to
Boebert's Blunders. Got abetter title? Hit me up. Joining
me is my co host, the sharpand fearless Colonel Mo Davis, retired
Air Force colonel, formerGuantanamo prosecutor, and now a
(00:52):
candidate for Congress inNorth Carolina's 11th district. Let's
get muck and Mo.
All right, so welcome back,everybody, and thanks for joining
us again. And continuing ourtradition of interesting guests today,
we've got Charlie Angus, whountil recently was a member of the
Canadian Parliament, servedfor almost 21 years there, and just
(01:14):
left office a couple of monthsback. In addition to that, he's a
written a number of books,he's a, a musician, and someone that
I think is a little upsetabout relations between the U.S.
and Canada. So, Charlie, thankyou so much for, for doing this today.
Well, thank you so much forhaving me on the program, folks.
(01:36):
We've got to keep theseconversations going in this time
of rampant disinformation.
We do. And, you know, for mywhole life, I always thought that,
you know, Canada was ourfriend and Russia was our enemy.
And until Trump came along, Ididn't realize I had it asked backwards.
So why do you guys hate us?
Well, you. No. Donald Trumptalked about the nastiest country
(01:59):
he's ever dealt with. Hedidn't talk about Putin's Russia
and horrific war crimes there.He didn't talk about North Korea.
It's U.S. canada. And so, youknow, there's this tendency people
are always, well, Trump'sbeing Trump. But over Christmas break,
the, the insults and theattacks became stronger and clear
(02:20):
and more menacing. And hehasn't really backed down. Some of
the media pretend he has, buthe hasn't. And overnight, we've seen
an unprecedentedtransformation of Canada and our
sense of self and ourwillingness to fight for what we've
just taken for granted for solong. So if Trump has done one thing,
(02:41):
he's really brought ustogether. He's woken us up on the
need to know what's what'sworth fighting for, know what's valuable
and, and not be afraid.
Yeah, I saw, I guess it wasyesterday that Prime Minister Carney
met with Frederick Merce at a,I think in Italy at a meeting. And
it's interesting that, youknow, in Canada, you know, I would
(03:05):
guess a year ago this time,the betting odds on Mark Carney winning
were pretty slim. And then inGermany, Frederick Merce and more
recently in Romania with NikuSordan. So Trump has had some, somewhat
of a positive effect, at leastoutside the US in bringing people
to their senses.
(03:26):
Well, certainly, I mean, I, I,there's two interesting elements
there. First, of course, isthe fact that the Liberals government
were, they were a, they werethe walking dead. Until Trump's attacks,
all of their key people wereretiring to spend time with family
because they didn't want toget slaughtered at the polls. Canada's
MAGA maple leader, Pierre Pov,was running the MAGA playbook to
(03:48):
a te. And once Trump startedthreatening us, Pierre POV's lead
disintegrated, a 25 point leadovernight almost. And Mark Carney,
who nobody would have thoughtcould have done it, came in and,
and the reason he came in, Ithink, is that Canadians were looking
for a wartime style primeminister and Carney was able to capture
(04:11):
that moment. And, you know,seeing him over in Europe and seeing
him now talking with Franceand the UK about taking on Netanyahu
and demanding action over thestarvation in Gaza, this is now international
relations being conducted.Without the United States, that never
would have happened before. Wewould have always gone first to Washington
to talk, seeing that this wasour closest ally then talking with
(04:35):
Europe. Now we see the PrimeMinister is over in Europe working
with European leaders on whatwe need to do in an age of gangster
regimes.
Yeah, it's amazing. I, youknow, if you go back 10, 15, 20 years,
the, the notion of, you know,turning our back on our friends and
our allies and embracing ourenemies. I mean, I, I served with
(04:57):
members of the Canadian armedforces over the years and spent a
lot of time training with aview towards our adversary being
Russia. And all of a suddenPutin's our best friend and you guys
hate us. And it's just hard toimagine that we ended up in the place
where we are. But it is whatit is. I mean, you guys are a diverse
(05:18):
country like we are, and Iguess there's no general consensus.
But what, what's kind of themood there with what's happened?
Well, I think it's a reallyinteresting point. Yeah. Canada,
you know, we have right, wehave left, we have north, we got
south. We love squabbling. Imean, we love squabbling with each
other. It's our favoritepastime. And we never really thought
(05:39):
much about who we are. We area nation of likable slackers, you
know, and I. I say thatbecause, like, in the Second World
War, we were a nation of 11million people, and we had the fourth
largest air force in theworld, fourth largest navy. Our young
people went and fought anddied everywhere. Every. Anybody who's
(06:00):
born in Canada, their uncle orgrandfather either served or is lying
in a grave someplace else. Andsuddenly to be attacked like this
has brought out a feeling thateight months ago would have been
unpressed. It just wouldn't.People couldn't have imagined it.
So, say, for example, like,you talked about serving alongside
(06:20):
Canadians, when JD Vance saidthat he was tired of hearing sob
stories from Canada aboutbeing an ally, the rage I heard in
the coffee shops was, I mean,J.D. vance is dead to us. There's
nothing he could ever do orsay to come back because we lost
(06:40):
a lot of young people inKandahar. That was a hellhole. And
we went, why did we go? Wewent because the United States asked
us to go. And then to say,these are sob stories. So, you know,
we don't wave the flag a lotin Canada, but when someone insults
us like that, well, okay, nowthat, as we say in hockey, the gloves
(07:01):
are dropped. So that's. That'sthe mood right now. There's a real
militancy to defend and. Andto push back. I think our. Some of
our leaders are trying totiptoe around, trying to, you know,
keep the orange felon, hopingthat he won't notice us. But ordinary
people, you talk to them,they're ready to go to the wall.
Yeah, I wasn't familiar withthe. You know, I'm not a huge hockey
(07:24):
fan, I have to admit, but Iwasn't familiar with the phrase elbows
up. But I guess that's becomesome. Something of a rallying cry
as well.
Well, how it happened is. Isreally extraordinary. So Mike Myers,
you know, a lot of all ourbest comics go to the States. And
so there was the night onSaturday Night Live, just when this
was beginning, and we weresuddenly realizing that the kind
(07:45):
of threats he was makingagainst us was. It suddenly felt
like Ukraine prior to Putin'sattack. And we were very disoriented,
and there was a lot of fear ofwhat was going to happen. And Mike
Myers appeared on SaturdayNight Live, and he had the Canada's
not for Sale T shirt. And, andpeople just, you know, loved it.
It was like Mike Myersreminding us that he was a hometown
(08:07):
boy. But at the end of it, he,he was standing on stage, you know,
when they all come out on snl.And I didn't watch it, but my brother
called me. He said, did yousee what Mike did? Did you see what
he did? And I said, yeah, hehad the T shirt. He said, no, no,
no. He mouthing the wordselbows up. And I was like, oh, my
God, that's the secret code.We're all hockey nuts here. So that
(08:29):
was Bobby or that was Gordy.How Mr. Elbows, when you went into
the corners with Gordie, howyou got the elbow in the face. And
so when, when they called himMr. Elbows, that was, that was someone
who was going to make you pay.And overnight that became this rallying
slogan. And it was sort ofsuch a Canadian thing. And it was
Mike Myers saying that. Andthe next thing you know, the Prime
(08:52):
Minister is using it in his,in his election ads. And, and it
hasn't been cheapened yet.People here, I mean, there's Elbows
up songs, Elbows Up T shirts.I got Elbows up chocolates from this
Syrian family that came hereafter the war. And they, they're
making great guns, sellingElbows up chocolate, Elbows up everywhere
right now.
All right, well, listen, your,your party in the most recent election
(09:16):
didn't fare particularly well.And it seems like you're part of
the National Democratic Party,and certainly here in the U.S. our
Democratic Party kind of gotshellacked back in November. How
do we, how do we rebuild? Imean, I know we're trying to figure
that out here, and I imagineyou are up there. How do we. How
(09:37):
do we. It seems like we'velost the trust of the working class
people.
That's a really importantconversation. And I think that I'm
hoping that in the newDemocratic Party we're going to have
honest conversations. But wegave up the working class, we gave
up rural people. I always saidit around our caucus table. It seemed
(10:00):
that we didn't. We wouldprefer to have a better base than
ours. We wanted a cooler,hipper, you know, more diverse, but
we weren't speaking toordinary people. But I think what
ended up happening, why we gotwiped out so badly, is that when
Trump came in, the leadershipin my party didn't shift gears and
(10:22):
thought that this was going tobe just like another election. I
was. Felt like Cassandra atthe last caucus meeting. I said to
them, just before the electionwas called. I said, what year do
you guys live in? I'm livingin 2025, and it seems like you're
living in 2023, and the worldhas changed. And I think they bet
the House that they weren'tgoing to have to deal with the Trump
(10:45):
threat. And I think Canadiansresponded to the Trump fear. So I
know a lot of people who votedfor Mark Carney, knowing that we
were losing, who are hardcoreNew Democrats, but said to me, I
was terrified of Trump. I feltwe had to do what we had to do. So
I'm hoping that those numberswill not be replicated. But clearly
(11:09):
the Democrats have, have a,have to do their job. I mean, I don't
know, it's sort of become abutt of a joke up in Canada where,
like, are the Democrats there?Are they going to do something like
this? We're talking about thesuspension of the rule of law. Like,
where is the opposition? Andif people don't see that, if they
don't see a coherent voice,they're either going to disengage
(11:30):
or they're going to go to theother side. And, and I think we've,
we failed them.
I think, I think you're right,Charlie. And as a lifelong Democrat,
I'm asking the same question,you know, where the hell are the
table pounders? Where the,where are the people that are going
to risk some politics or somepolitical capital here in the, in
(11:51):
this country? You have, you'redoing it in Canada. You're, you're
on a, you've been on a tourlately. You're out there rallying
folks to rebel against this inthe United States. And I'm wondering
if, if you could potentiallyrelocate and run for the Congress
down here. We'll get you citizenship.
(12:12):
Well, well, listen, I'mgetting, the amount of calls I'm
getting from across the USRight now is amazing. When Trump
got elected, I woke up thenext morning and I knew we were in
completely uncharted waters. Iknew that we'd crossed the Rubicon
and that the threat ahead ofus was the threat to democracy. I
didn't know how bad it wasgoing to get, and I don't know how
(12:34):
bad it will get, but I knew Ihad to do something. So I started
to use what time I had left inParliament. I'd made the decision
after 21 years to leave, and Isort of became a rally in focus because
I realized that people neededto hear a clear vision. They needed
to hear that opposition, butnot just opposition, but hope and
determination. So I've been onthis tour. People are asking me to
(12:58):
travel everywhere. We get 500people in Edmonton, 350 in a small
town on a Monday night insouthern Ontario, 400 here. And there's
a real determination right nowto, to defend. And I'm trying to
build this sense of that wecan, can resist. And I'm getting
(13:18):
a lot of really greatcommentary and, and connections in
the US but crossing the borderright now, I don't think so. I don't
want to end up in an ElSalvadorian prison camp as, I mean,
if, if, if, if he's going topick a fight with the boss, he's
surely not going to give meany, any, any fair, fair view if
I try and cross that border.
(13:39):
Yeah, well, I, I think thesame would go for Mo and myself on
the way.
Yeah.
Stay where you are.
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Well, andit, honestly, it's a, it's a genuine
concern. Where are we going?Where are we going from here? You
know?
Well, you know, I.
Go ahead.
I just wanted to say, youknow, I was at a protest at the American
Consulate last month that I'dheard. I didn't, I wasn't planned.
(14:01):
I was just in the city and I.In Toronto and I went there and it
was a whole bunch of reallyordinary people, not political types.
And a woman came up to me andshe was wearing a Covid mask and
she said, I'm a dual citizen.What should I do? And she was looking
up at the consulate windows.Now, I don't want to be paranoid
enough to think that they werephotographing and documenting, but
(14:24):
I don't know. And I said toher, I think you should go home.
I don't think you should behere. I don't think you should put
yourself on the line if youhave to go back and see family in
New York next month. And whatkind of world are we living in where
someone wears a mask to standoutside the American Embassy? I mean,
this is the kind of thing thatpeople from, you know, dissidents
(14:44):
from North Korea would do.This isn't something that you would
see in a city like Torontofrom an, a dual citizen who is afraid
to even come out and be seen.And, and me giving her advice to,
that it would be safer to gohome. Like, we can't allow that to
happen. We can't allow that tobecome the norm.
That's absolutely right. And,and I think, you know, for some context,
(15:08):
I was in Washington in Marchwith my son. I was attending a conference
and he decided to come alongwith me, he's 12, and I promised
him. After the conference wasover, we actually were working with
Mark Cuban on a project there,and Mark got on his plane and went
home, and, And I said, well,Nico, let's go do some poke stops,
(15:29):
because he's a big Pokemanguy. And we started out towards the
White House, and we walked bythe Treasury Building right next
to the White House, and Iwalked by this plaque, and I, and
I looked down and I said, Iread it. And Nico and I read it together,
and it was commemorating theWebster ashburton treaty of 1842.
(15:50):
And, you know, we're notreally taught that in our schools
here. Except for 183 years,we've had a treaty with Canada. You've
been our partner for 183years. I think it's one of the longest
treaties we've ever had.
Yeah, yeah.
And Americans don't understandthat. A lot of Canadians probably
don't either. But how the. Didthat all go down the tubes in a matter
(16:16):
of months?
Well, it's. It. It is astaggering thing to consider, particularly
given the rise of Putin andthese gangster regimes, that we would
become public enemy numberone. And in terms of the impacts,
Canadians have now undertakena full boycott. This wasn't launched
(16:42):
from the top, but you go intoa grocery store anywhere, you're
not going to see Americanproduce. Like nothing. We're getting
our produce from Mexico, fromPeru. This has completely transformed
the whole supply chain of, of,you know, of greens and, and fresh
vegetables and fruits that wedon't normally get in winter. It's
all now coming out of Mexico,as opposed to what we used to always
(17:04):
get. We got California, our,Our. Our wine and liquor stores.
I mean, the boycott is. Theypulled everything off the shelves.
The Ontario Liquor ControlBoard, the lcbo, is the largest purchaser
of spirits in the world. Andon day one, when the threat happened
(17:25):
with the tariffs, it was allpulled right from the shelves. Nothing.
So this is. This isextraordinary. I think our air Travel
is down 70, 75%. And when you,when stories keep coming out of people
being pulled out of air, outof, you know, the airline passport
control place and being putinto detention, now they're talking
(17:47):
about a $12.5 billion loss on,on tourism in the United States.
That's not just Canada, butthat's Europe as well. I mean, this
guy's turned the United Statesfrom favorite destination into pariah
state in just over 100 days.And it's costing thousands, hundreds
of thousands of jobs. This is,this has got to there's got to be
(18:08):
a breaking point that we reachhere or things are going to get much
worse.
I agree again, you're righton, Charlie. You know, the other
thing that irritates theabsolute fuck out of me is the fact
that, you know, we talkedabout this a little bit earlier,
the fact that we have reallyno opposition here. You know, you
(18:32):
turned me, I saw you give aspeech. It must have been back in,
maybe it was March, maybe lateFebruary, where you talked about
the gangster regime. You usewords that normal people can understand,
I can't think of. And I loveHakeem Jeffries. You know, I think
(18:54):
Chuck Schumer's a good guy. Doyou see any Americans that are connecting
with folks or, or part of theresistance that you think we need?
I'm watching for it. I mean,I, I see Bernie Sanders and AOC are
doing their thing. They'vesort of always done their thing.
(19:16):
I'm, I'm really feeling aconcern of not seeing sort of that
ordinary middle of the roadcongress person who said, wait a
minute, what the heck justhappened here? No, I'm not going
to do that. Because if peopledon't stand up, then all manner of
abuses become possible. I'mvery concerned here in Canada. I,
(19:37):
I, I follow the, you know, themedia coverage, and it's like nobody
wants to say what is obvious.And they hope that it'll, if we just
pretend that this is just someblip, that life will go back to normal.
Like, I was in the car theother day and there was, there was
a Democrat, I guess he wassomebody important. I didn't get
(19:57):
his name. And he was talkingabout the midterms. I was like, are
you kidding me? People arebeing kidnapped off the street. Judges
are being arrested at thecourthouse, and you're talking about
waiting until the midterms. Ifthat's your strategy, there may not
be midterms. Like, we have tocall this out. And the language that
I've been using about dealingwith gangster regimes, about the
(20:21):
rise of tyranny. If I had saidstuff like that three years ago,
I'd probably be given my ownconspiracy channel where a lot of
other loopy people get to rantand rave about this Illuminati. But
right now, that's the languagethat's passing the nod test because
ordinary people see it. Whatwe don't see is the leadership from
(20:44):
the courts, from the peoplethat stand up and just do the right
thing, and it's their job todo the right thing. Where the hell
are they yeah, I've.
Tried to peel the onion backand get to the core of this. And
I still think that the strangerelations between the U.S. and Canada
is Trudeau's fault. Becauseyou've seen that picture where Melania
(21:07):
Trump is looking up at himlike, oh, yeah, I'd hit that.
Yeah.
But, you know, Trump's avindictive person, and I think that's
as good a reason as any forhim to turn on Canada. That look
that his wife was giving theformer prime minister.
Well, yeah, it also could bebecause we, you know, ideas like
(21:27):
diversity and equity andinclusion, we don't really think
that that's a problem. Like,isn't that what a democratic nation
does? It's like, we're like,you're. You're that freake out. You.
I mean, God, you took IraHayes off your Pentagon website.
What the hell is that? You know?
Well, I tell. It's kind ofscary. I was looking at some polling
today and, and Trump's numbersare actually up from where they were.
(21:52):
He's approching 50% approvalin, in some of the polls. So, you
know, the reality is a lot ofAmericans like what he does. But
it was interesting. The NewYork Times kind of done a deeper
dive and they found that thepeople that approved of Trump, that
about half of them weren'taware of most of the things that
(22:15):
he had done, the big things,and the people that disapproved of
him were aware. So if peoplefind out, if they get the news and
are educated, then they have alower opinion of him. But he's, he's
doing everything he can hereto suppress the truth. You know,
he, the right wing hereliterally owns social media. Yeah.
(22:38):
And they've beaten themainstream media into submission.
You may have seen, you know,we have the, the big three networks
here, but the producer for,you know, Big show here is 60 Minutes.
The producer quit a couple ofweeks back, and now the head of.
Of news for CBS has quitbecause they're knuckling under.
(22:58):
And so I'm just worried thatthe public is not going to get the
truth. And I think that's thestrategy that Trump is employed,
is to try to wear down themedia so that he can keep the folks
from learning about his conduct.
I think it's a really. Again,I've been telling people at the rallies
(23:19):
that I am at, you know, thatwe are in a unique moment in Canada.
We've really shown the world.I get messages from all over the
world saying we want to bestrong Canada. You know, nobody's
ever said that before, butthey're saying that now, but that
it's a fragile line that we'reholding. And the, the, the MAGA attack
on our country is going fullout in terms of disinformation. And
(23:43):
it's something, again, themainstream media don't want to talk
about it. It's, I thinkthey're spooked by it, but also they
don't know how to frame it.But the attacks on Mark Carney as
prime minister, on all thesefake sites, know, I don't know how
many of them are Russiandisinformation sites. Attacks on
(24:05):
Canada undermining our nation,attempts to divide us from the west,
from the East. You see thisseparatist movement that suddenly
rose up, you know, whenAlberta has like the highest income
in the country now, sayingthey want to be their own country.
Danielle Smith, their premier,she's total maga. So unless we're
(24:25):
paying attention and watchingactually how it's played out in the
United States, it's going toplay out here in Canada. The upside
for us, and it sucks for youguys, but you went first into the
MAGA hole with the election ofTrump, and it's given us at least
a really clear picture ofwhat's coming if we don't keep our
guard up. But we really doneed to keep that guard strong.
(24:49):
Yeah. You know, in 2016, whenhe, when he won, then again this
time, you know, the day afterthe election, my wife and I spent
most of the day on theInternet looking at real estate overseas.
And you know, one of ourfavorite, we have a friend that lives
here that has a place up onQuadra island, and we were up there
last year. And, and I'm not abig fan of big cities, but if I had
(25:13):
to live in one, Vancouverwould be really high on my list.
But, but you guys won't let usin anyway. Can we get you to change
that and let us the good onescome up?
Well, I've been a bigsupporter of that. When I was younger,
there were a whole whack ofpeople who'd come up during the Vietnam
War, and they actually madeour communities a lot more interesting.
(25:35):
And they were involved in allkinds of stuff. And some went back,
some stayed. I still got somewho live up the road from me. And
it's like, we should do that.I think it would be a good thing.
But one thing we do want toencourage people, people are very
worried about the responsethey'll get in Canada. Come on up.
Just let everyone know youdidn't vote for my son in law is
(25:58):
a jazz musician, was inMontreal, great jazz city. And he
said there were four tables inthis little club who are all American.
The first thing they said iswe didn't vote for him. And it's
like, okay, you're up. You'reperfectly okay. You can stay and
have a great time. But ifyou're Meg, I leave your hat at home.
Or maybe just stay home.
All right. Well, I guess ifyou do come back to the states, you're
(26:18):
not going to be going toTexas. Texas to visit Greg Abbott.
Well, you know, that son of a.
Doesn't deserve to have Charlie.
I'm not going to a state. Butyou know what really struck me again,
people are making a realsacrifice in this boycott. So I got
a call the other day from awoman. She didn't want to give me,
(26:41):
she didn't want me to tell herstory with her name. But she comes
from a very conservativereligious background and she studied
for years, years to get herdiploma through correspondence out
of a Bible seminary inPennsylvania. And she's decided not
to go to her graduationbecause she didn't want to break
(27:03):
the boycott. So there's a hugepersonal cost there in terms of Texas.
South by Southwest is thebiggest musical gathering in the
world for alternate artists.And we have musicians that go down
every year. They made anannouncement that Canadian acts had
decided not to go. So thoseare people who are losing career
opportunities in order to holdthe line. So if they're not going
(27:28):
to Texas, then no, I'm notgoing either.
Well, good for you. Again,Abbott doesn't deserve no good people
at Canada and their money down there.
Yeah.
So you, you decided not to runfor real action, correct?
Yes. Yes.
And how did you come to thatconclusion? You just felt like it
was time to move on or whatwas your thought process there?
(27:50):
Well, my constituency isbigger than the United Kingdom and
so I mean, I get into some ofmy communities in little float planes
because there's no roads veryfar north and I love the people.
But they decided in thelatest. We don't have gerrymandering
in Canada. We have somethingthat is just so much more perfectly
(28:11):
bureaucratic. We outsource ourgerrymandering to like a group of
three academics who just drawlines on the map. And they decided
that our rural population wassomehow over represented in Parliament.
So they threw on an extra20,000 square kilometers, about a
dozen more communities,hundreds of miles of roads. About
eight of those communitiesspeak only French, which is okay.
(28:33):
I get along pretty Cool in theFrench communities. But I was like,
I am not going to do all thaton top of representing a region bigger
than the United kingdom. Soafter 21 years, I thought it was
time to step out. And then theTrump thing happened. And I've been
busier now than I've ever beenin terms of my political work. My,
one of my assistants from theHill came with me and we're, we're
(28:57):
out all the time trying toorganize, trying to work with people,
trying to respond to people'sneeds in terms of resisting Trump.
So I think it was fortuitous.I mean, 21 years to, to survive,
21 years in the House is not alot of people get that far. And my
old man who did everything,terms of boxing metaphors would say
(29:17):
to me, he said, no greatheavyweight ever got beat by heavy.
Another great heavyweight, healways got beat by a bum because
he stayed in the ring toolong. And my dad used to say, don't
ever stay too long in thering. So 21 years seemed like the
right time. And it, it's givenme now the freedom to, to take this
fight against tyranny on fullon and, and, and not have to worry
that I'm offending someone inthe leader's office.
(29:40):
Yeah, good for you. Good foryou. That's a lot of travel to and
from Ottawa, for goodness sakes.
Yeah, well, I mean that whereI live, we count, we count everything.
Not by miles or kilometers,but by hours.
So, so what's next for you?You're on this tour, Resistance Tour
throughout your country.What's next?
(30:02):
Well, I mean, it's full on. Sothe Resistance Tour continues. I
have Charlie Angus, ResistanceSubstack, which has become pretty
much a full time job of WR oneverything from what Robert Kennedy
Jr. Is doing to deconstructingdisinformation. My band, Grievous
Angels, are going back in thestudio, we're doing some big shows.
(30:27):
I had always played music andI couldn't do that while I was in
politics. So we're going backin the studio for our 10th album.
I'm working on a new book,roughly entitled in the Time of Monsters,
which is really about the, the1930s and the connections to today.
And I, I, I track that rise ofthe darkness and the fascism and
(30:50):
the civil unrest through thenorthern mining communities that
I'm from. I really wanted tofocus on what it meant in a particular
place and it's just, it's tooprescient because we are in the time
of monsters, as Gramsci says.
That's an apt description ofTrump if I've ever heard one. So
(31:11):
the tour, your musical career,and any chance that we could. We
could get you to come to theStates and do something down here?
Well, you know, I've had a lotof requests to come down. I'm wary
for two reasons. One is we'vebeen telling people to keep the boycott
(31:33):
strong. So if the guy who'stelling people to keep the boycott
strong doesn't. That's a. Youknow, I. Concerned about that, but
just very. We don't trust. Idon't trust the border right now.
My. I was talking to someyoung university professors who told
me that they're told if theygo to do research, I mean, all these,
you know, research programs,cross border, blah, blah, that they
(31:56):
can't go without taking aburner phone because they're afraid
of what will happen if they'researched. So you're having to bring
a burner phone when you're a,you know, a humanities professor.
So I figure if they'reworried, a loudmouth like me, man,
I'm. I'd definitely be in forit. So. Yeah, I don't.
I don't think they have theballs to mess with guys like you,
(32:18):
to be honest with you. I thinkit's the immigrants that don't speak
very good English that maybedon't have the resources to fight
them. They're chasing, andthey use them as a scapegoat.
Yeah, Yeah.
I. I think the same thing forprobably Mo and me, because, you
know, we do have a publicfollowing, a public Persona. Most
(32:40):
people don't like me. Theylike Mo, but I think they would stick
up for me. But I don't thinkthat would mess with you if you came
to this country. But let metoss it back to Mo for one more,
and then. Okay, for sure,we're going to close out.
Yeah.
After that.
Yeah. Oh, we've. We've coveredall the light stuff. I wanted to
ask a serious question, andyou brought up your band, Grievous
(33:02):
Angels. But which is thebetter band, Rush or the Tragically
Hip?
Oh, well, I'm hoping this isreally an American audience. I hate
Rush. I always hated Rush. Ihated him in high school. I was like
the dissident. You know,people still get mad at me. Tragically
Hip. Okay, so if you don'tknow Tragically Hip, you know, when
(33:22):
Gord Downey, the singer, wasfound to have brain cancer and I.
I knew Gord not well, but we.We traveled in the same circles.
And Gord Announced he wasgoing to do one last tour across
Canada. And he did it to raiseawareness of the indigenous children
who had been stolen and takenaway by the church and the government,
(33:44):
to erase their identity. Andthat tour was such a profound moment.
Like, there was a guy dying,and the last thing he was going to
do was to cross the country totell us how we had to reconcile ourselves
with our indigenous history.And so Gord and the tragically hip,
anywhere you go, if you're ata. If you're at a party out in somebody's
(34:07):
backyard and someone startssinging the hip, everyone sings along.
So. But for all those Rushfans out there, sorry I offended
you, but I'm just beinghonest. Now that I'm not in politics,
I don't have to worry that theleader's office are going to say,
did you really say that aboutRush? No, that's. That. That's not
a demographic we want tooffend. But I just love that. I mean,
(34:27):
again, he's a great guy.Getty. I know. I don't know Getty,
but I know a lot of peopleknow him. He's a great guy. Alex
Lifeson, Great guy. Neil Pert,who passed away. People loved him.
I just didn't like the band.
Well, I'm a guitar player, andI always had a lot of respect for
Alex Lifeson. Yeah, Just aremarkable guitar player.
Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.You know, they were all incredible
(34:49):
musicians. So.
Speaking of musicians, do youever run across the guy named Barry
Stagg?
No, who's that?
He was from Nova Scotia. Ithink he sang quite a bit in the
Toronto region back in the 60sand 70s, and he relocated down here.
(35:09):
I'm a big fan of Nova Scotia.Annette Versurin's a good friend,
and I've been up to her partof the world many times, and. And
I've had a. Had the chance totry some Glenn Breton whiskey. Have
you had it?
Glenn Breton's very good. My.My mom's. They come out of Nova Scotia.
(35:32):
They were coal miners thatcame out of Nova Scotia, so that's
where I learned how to singthat. All that traditional maritime
Cape Breton music. Yeah. So.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So my mom. My mom likes thatGlenn Breton. Yes, it's good.
All right. And what aboutbourbon? Are you a bourbon guy? Because
Mo's a big bourbon guy.
Well, you know, you can't buybourbon in Canada anymore. We took
it off the shelves.
(35:53):
Well, I was trying to slipthat one in there.
Yeah, but. But so once we tookbourbon off the shelves, we said,
well, what do we have? Andthen people started telling us about
all these great stuff.Okanagan bourbon, great. Apparently
my son in law loves it. Peopleare telling me, great, there's some
great whiskeys coming out ofAlberta. And you know, maybe when
(36:14):
this thing's all settledsomeday we'll be, we'll be sharing
those drinks again. But rightnow, good luck trying to find it
in Canada. And nobody wouldbuy it if, if they could. So sorry
about bourbon.
Yeah. All right. Well,Charlie, we really appreciate your
time and, and joining our showtoday. And that's a wrap for this
episode of munkh. Huge thanksto Charlie Angus, our guest from
(36:37):
Canada today bringing the heatand insight. Keep up with us on Blue
sky at American muckrakers.Visit americanmuckrakers.com to learn
more about us and considertossing a few bucks our way to fuel
the muckraking mission.Charlie, give us your website one
more time.
Charlie Angus, the resistancesubstack&charlieangus ca cool.
(37:00):
Until next time. Stay curious,keep digging and when you've had
enough of maga, tell them Muck you.
This has been Muck you. Cohosted by Colonel Mo Davis in Asheville,
North Carolina and DavidWheeler in Spruce Pine, North Carolina.
Thanks to our guest today, thehonorable Charlie Angus, former member
(37:21):
of the Canadian Parliament.Learn more about charlie@charlieangustherassistants.substack.com
or charlieangus.ca Specialthanks to Jan on Charlie staff for
helping set up this episode.Muck you is produced by American
Muckrakers. Copyright 2025.You can learn more and donate at
American Muckrakers.com followus on Blue sky under American Muckrakers.com
(37:44):
and onsubstack@AmericanMcKrakers.substack.com David
and Mo hope you all come backsoon for a new episode. And remember
to never take from anyone,especially Trumpers.
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