March 19, 2025 • 46 mins
David Hogg is our guest, and trust me, you’re gonna wanna stick around for this one! As the newly minted Vice Chair of the Democratic National Committee at just 24, he's diving deep into the pressing issues that are shaping our future—particularly how to win back the youth vote that seems to have taken a hard right turn lately. We chat about everything from the challenges of rising costs that young people are facing to the importance of leading by example rather than just pointing fingers. Hogg's been in the spotlight since the heartbreaking events at Stoneman Douglas High School, and he’s harnessing that fire to advocate for change in a big way. It’s a no-holds-barred conversation with co-hosts Colonel Moe Davis and David Wheeler, tackling what it means to be a young leader in today’s political landscape and the steps we all need to take to create a better tomorrow. So grab your earbuds and get ready for some real talk!
In this episode of Muck You!, we’re keeping it real with David Hogg, fresh off his election as Vice Chair of the DNC. We’re not just talking titles; we’re diving deep into the major issues plaguing the party right now. Hogg’s insights on why younger voters are bailing on the Dems are spot on—he points out that the party’s been out of touch with the everyday realities that young people face, like crushing student debt and insane housing prices.
We explore Hogg’s vision for the future of the party, focusing on genuine engagement rather than slick marketing campaigns. He’s all about transparency and accountability, calling out the consultant class that’s been milking the Democratic Party for too long without delivering results. Plus, we get into some juicy details about the necessity of a fresh wave of political leaders who can actually resonate with their constituents and inspire trust. Hogg’s energy and determination are infectious, and his commitment to advocacy shines through as he discusses the importance of grassroots movements and real-life impact over mere political rhetoric. Buckle up; this one’s a rollercoaster of political insight and hope!
Takeaways:
- David Hogg believes in leading by example and engaging younger voters to shift the political landscape.
- The Democratic Party needs to acknowledge the reality of rising costs and communicate solutions effectively to reconnect with young voters.
- David emphasizes the importance of speaking directly to the issues affecting younger generations, like housing and healthcare costs.
- Acknowledging the challenges of gerrymandering and limited resources, David advocates for grassroots involvement to strengthen local Democratic parties.
- There's a need for the Democratic Party to become more aggressive in its messaging and to fight for voters' interests with urgency.
- David highlights the importance of building an intergenerational coalition within the Democratic Party to ensure diverse representation and fresh perspectives.
Links referenced in this episode:
Companies mentioned in this episode:
- Democratic National Committee
- Harvard
- Appalachian State University
- New York Times
- DNC
- Ken Martin
- Susan Crawford
- Jeff Jackson
- Leaders We Deserve
- American Muckrakers
- March for Our Lives
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:21):
Welcome back folks to Muck Uwhere we cut through the noise and
dig into the truth. No sugarcoating, no spin, just the raw, unfiltered
conversations that matter. I'mDavid Wheeler and as always, I'm
joined by my co host and goodfriend, the one and only Colonel
Mo Davis, who's going tointroduce us to our guest.
Well, thanks good to be withyou again and thanks everybody for
(00:42):
joining in. And you know,we're continuing with a long streak
of, of really interestingguests and we're honored today to
have David Hog on. I mean, Iwas, I was, I guess I'd kind of lost
track of time. I was thinkingback, you know, David kind of got
thrust into the spotlight backin February of 2018 with the shooting
at Stoneman Douglas HighSchool down in South Florida that
(01:02):
claimed 17 lives. And he'sbeen in the spotlight pretty much
ever, ever since. Mostrecently, you know, if you're, if
you're paying attention to thenews, you know that last month he
was elected vice chair of theDemocratic National Committee, which
I'm guessing at the age of 24is probably the youngest person to
hold that job. But, but inbetween he's written a, he and his
(01:24):
sister written a best sellingbook. He's graduated from Harvard,
which we have something incommon. I'm a graduate of Appalachian
State University and manypeople say that Harvard is the Appalachian
state of New England. So wow,we, we have that in common. But hey,
David, it's a real pleasure tohave you on today. Thank you for
taking time to do this.
Absolutely. Thank you forhaving me.
(01:45):
Well, listen, let's talk aboutthe, the new role you're taking on
is a vice chair of theDemocratic National Committee. You
and Ken Martin are steppinginto, to a pretty big role. I mean,
you know, we just got, youknow, we've lost control of the Supreme
Court, of the Congress, of theWhite House. Polling shows that 27%
(02:06):
of Americans have a favorableopinion of the Democratic Party.
So why'd you take on such aneasy job?
You know, I'm a big believerin leading by example. And I think
one of the most importantthings that we can do in our country
and in our party and in lifeis not just talk about what's wrong.
It's to talk about what we'regoing to do differently and how we're
(02:27):
going to be part of thesolution. And what happened is I,
you know, we saw one of thelargest shifts to the right of 18
to 29 year olds in Americanhistory this past cycle. And when
I was at a DNC meeting as amember of the public, just watching,
and they said one of the mainreasons why we lost was because of
younger voters, specificallypeople under the age of 29. I looked
around the room and I didn'tsee anybody under the age of 40 besides
(02:49):
the DNC staff. So I saw anopportunity for myself to be part
of the change that I wanted tosee and not just complain online,
not just say I think we'redoing things wrong, but to be part
of the solution, hopefully towin back our young people and just
deliver competent andeffective leaders that can help bring
our country out of thismoment, that can deliver on lowering
the cost of living for people,lowering the cost of housing, lowering
(03:12):
the cost of health care andlowering the cost of education as
well. And yeah, to be clear,too, in this role, there are multiple
vice chairs. Thankfully, I'mnot taking this on alone. In this
role, there are several othersthat are also vice chairs.
Well, you mentioned aboutyoung people and getting engaged.
I don't know if you saw. Therewas a Ezra Klein at a piece in the
(03:33):
New York Times on Tuesday isan interview with Democratic pollster
David Shore. And Shore did areally interesting analysis of the
change in America's politicalenvironment from 2016 to 2024. But
one of the things he talkedabout is what you just mentioned.
He said that in the age group26 and under, that only women of
(03:56):
color in that group voted forKamala Harris and that, you know,
white women and men, bothwhite men and men of color, all voted
for Trump. So by about 23percentage points. So how do we close
that gap? How do we get youngpeople back on the progressive side?
(04:17):
I mean, one, I think it'sspeaking to the reality of what a
lot of them are facing. Ithink more than anything, part of
the when I was running forthis role of vice chair and people
asked me why we lost or mythoughts on why we lost, I said,
look, voters told us twothings this election. They told us
that prices were too high andJoe Biden was too old. And with the
power of $2 billion behind us,we said, no, he's not. And then,
(04:38):
yes, he is. And then we said,no, they aren't. And when you tell
voters not to believe theireyes or their wallets, you're going
to lose them. And I think themost important thing that our party
can do going forward is one,acknowledge reality. When prices
are too high, just talk abouthow they are too high, but tell people
what we're doing about itright and that goes for any multitude
of other issues. And with thattoo, I think we got to do a lot more
(04:59):
work to acknowledge the workthat our party needs to do in our
blue states to govern better,specifically around the costs of
living. Increasingly, youknow, I ended up in, I ended up in
Parkland in the first placebecause my family couldn't afford
to live there anymore. Myfather was diagnosed with early onset
Parkinson's disease and he wasfacing an early medical retirement.
And the reality was, with thecost of living in California, specifically
(05:22):
that of housing, that myfamily knew that we were most likely
not going to be able tocontinue to pay our mortgage if we
remained in California. So wemoved to Parkland where we were able
to have a much lower cost ofliving. And of course, things have
changed in the time since inFlorida, but that's the reality we
had in 2014. And if our, wehave to do a lot more work to get
better at building housing andaddressing the cost of living, especially
(05:44):
in our blue states that inmany ways, in my opinion, have become
the victim of their ownsuccess. They've had massive economic
growth in places likeCalifornia and Massachusetts. In
Illinois, however, they havenot done, we've not done effective
work as a party to make surethat we, we're keeping costs low
for people so that they canafford to continue to live there
in the first place. And Ithink the way that we're going to
(06:05):
win back our young people, theway we're going to win back our young
people is talking about theissues that matter them. And more
than anything, far more thanthat, showing them what we're actually
doing to deliver on that. Howwe're making their communities more,
more walkable, how we'remaking their communities safer, um,
and how we're making life more affordable.
Yeah, well, you know, it to meis frustrating. The, you know, what
(06:27):
seeming kind of ineptitude inmessaging on the Democratic side.
I mean, I thought, you know,Joe Biden wasn't perfect, but considering,
you know, the economy heinherited, you know, in the post,
Covid, coming out of COVID andcompared to the rest of the world,
economically, America was inbetter shape than most any other
country around the world. Butwe did a horrible job of communicating
(06:50):
that to the public andparticularly young people. One of
the things I note. Oh, goahead. I'm sorry.
No, no, I, I, I understandwhat you're saying there, but I,
I do want to push back alittle bit in that I think the way
that we were looking atinflation, election cycle was wrong
in that we did end up loweringthe cost of a lot of things, like,
you know, consumer goods, forexample, even though they were higher
(07:12):
for a time. But the reality isthe things that everybody has to
buy, and this includes beforeCOVID but it was especially exacerbated
since the cost of education,the cost of health care, housing,
and so much more has gottenastronomically more expensive than
it was decades ago. And it gotespecially bad with rents during
COVID And I think that waspart of the biggest disconnect that
(07:33):
we had as a party. The placesthat we saw, some of the places that
we saw shift the most to theright correlated with the largest
rises in rents that we had.And I think that's a product of our
consultant class who often owntheir homes or have a very low interest
rate mortgage that areinherently not going to feel that
same pressure that a lot ofour young people are that.
Are experiencing their rentsgoing up, you.
(07:53):
Know, 20 or 30%. Andunfortunately, too, even if we are
doing better at managinginflation than other countries, we
don't care about that becausewe already assume that we're going
to be on top and that we'regoing to be the best because we're
America.
Right?
And I think what we really hadto do a better job of, in my opinion,
was acknowledging that rentshave gotten higher. And we did towards
(08:14):
the end of the campaign, more,but it was way too late by that point.
And talking about what we weredoing to lower those costs and crack
down on corporate landlordsand others, how do.
We, you know, the data showedthat voters that are disengaged,
that aren't really payingattention, are more likely to go
further to the right. Andanother stat showed that about 4
(08:34):
out of 10 folks under the ageof 30 get their news. Their primary
news source is TikTok. So howdo we do a better job of penetrating
through the bubble and beingable to communicate with, you know,
young folks under 30 who aregetting their news on TikTok and
the disengaged voters outthere who aren't paying that close
of attention to politics.
I think we got to understandone, that Donald Trump treats politics
(08:57):
like it's a WrestleMania, andwe treat it like it's C Span. We
understand that.
We, it seems like we haveforgotten that that politics is spectacle,
it is theater. And we also,because of our consultant class that
makes so much money off ofdigital ads, that make so much money
off of key, you know, cableand TV and broadcast news, they have
(09:18):
20 years of relationships thatactively incentivize them, disincentivize
them from innovating andreaching places where younger voters
are currently. Because thatmay threaten their business model.
It may threaten how they'regoing to get their fourth house on
Martha's Vineyard. Right. AndI think what we need to do in the
party is we need ourpolitician. We need a hell of a lot
(09:40):
more young people in our partythat know how to communicate effectively
on social media. And for theolder people in the party, too, we
need to give them the trainingto understand how to make a TikTok,
and not in like a reallycringy way, but in a way where they're
saying, hey, you know, myname's Kirk Watson, for example.
I'm the mayor of Austin,Texas, a good friend of mine. I like
him a lot. And this is whatwe've done on housing. This is how
(10:04):
we've lowered our rents in ourcity by 20% over the past year, even
as rents have skyrocketedelsewhere in our state. It's because
Democrats took charge. Theyeffectively governed and lowered
the price of housing, loweredthe price of rent in our city even
as it continued to grow. Whatit looks like is people like New
York City Councilman ShiAussie, who at the age of, I think
(10:26):
is 26, was able to use TikTokto talk about something very unpopular,
which are broker fees in NewYork City, tell people how to show
up at a New York City Councilmeeting to talk about and advocate
for abolishing broker fees,and got a meeting that typically
had, I think it was, you know,maybe a couple dozen people that
were all self interested inkeeping broker fees. Got several
(10:48):
hundred people in a linearound the block to show up to demand
that broker fees be ended andabolished. And told that story as
it was happening, as he wasworking on building the coalition
to do that, and then showedpeople and claimed victory about
how they actually did end upputting the broker fees onto the
landlord rather than thetenant. What I think it looks like
(11:09):
is people like Jeff Jackson inNorth Carolina, where I think has
done an excellent job ofspeaking direct to camera and telling
people what is going on andwhat he is doing. I think it also
looks like people like RobStant, right, in Iowa, talking about
how they're fightingcorruption, you know, really broad
things that everybody, ofevery demographic, I would argue
every party agrees with. Youknow, more efficiency, less corruption,
(11:31):
and doing that on social mediaand showing people how to get involved
there. Because right now we'rejust. We're not doing that nearly
enough.
Well, that's a good segue toone of the bees in my bonnet, David,
which is the consultant class.And I always use the example of the
Marjorie Taylor Greene raceAtlanta. That race has dozens of
(11:51):
children and rebuilt minikitchens and bought many boats for
many consultants on theDemocratic side. And it just irks
the holy hell out of me that$16 million and it spent in 2000
on that race on the Democraticside and we still lost by 34. How
do we disintermediate some ofthis consultant class and make sure
(12:14):
that candidates know, you knowwhat, if you're going to go with
this consultant who clearlyhas a track record of simply pocketing
donor money and not winningraces, you know, candidate X or candidate
Y, you know, you're not goingto get Democratic support. As a matter
of fact, we're going to shun you.
Yeah. I think the first andfor the first and most important
thing in my opinion is ourparty. In my view, we've got to put
(12:36):
more guidance out publicly forcampaigns at the local, state and
federal level to theirmanagers and candidates that says
here are the standard ratesthat people charge like, here's the
range of like, plus or minus5% of like what the, what the median
person charges for TV ads,digital ads, their commissions, their
(12:58):
rates and their fee structureand anything that is beyond this
should be highly suspect. Andyou can call this number at, you
know, ex Democraticorganization, whichever, you know,
level they're running for, andask is this a fair rate or am I getting
ripped off instead of justbeing told by the self interested
consultant, oh yeah, you know,me charging 40% for this is a really
(13:20):
good rate because then it'sfrankly, I think for a lot of managers
and other people it'sembarrassing to be, to have to confront
the fact that they've beenmisled, they've been manipulated
and that, that they've beenlied to. And to them, what happens
a lot of the time I think isthey're like, well, we're already
bringing in a lot of moneyanyways and I know that they might
be high, charging a fee that'stoo high, but look, we're still bringing
in this money. I think we needto have way better standards across
(13:41):
our party of showing peoplewhat the standard rates are to charge
for these different productsand class and these different products
in consulting. Because rightnow that just does not exist nearly
enough from what I've seen orreally at all. I also think that
we got to speak publicly whenwe've been wronged by a consultant.
People love to say, oh, youknow, these consultants are such
(14:03):
a problem and then like theydon't, but they never name names
and because they're afraid.But this is a collective action problem.
People are going to have tospeak out and say this person is
a problem. They ripped offthis person, they threatened this
person in this race that ifthey didn't hire them that they would
get somebody in the primary.Which is something that is actually
happened to one of thecandidates that we've supported before
for leaders we deserve. Andthat's a big part of what we do is
(14:23):
helping our candidates one,not get ripped off by consultants
and two, making sure we'reprotecting them from predatory consultants
that do things like that. Butwe're have to start naming names
publicly if we ever reallywant to start this, if we ever want
to make this change. I evenhave heard stories of members of
Congress that have had to keeppeople on their payroll simply because
(14:45):
they're worried that thatperson's going to get somebody else
in their primary. That's just,that's just. How is that not extortion?
That's bullshit that, that'sfucking. Sorry. It's bullshit that
that's happening. And ourparty has to stand up and say something
about it. Because the reasonwe're losing here is not because
we can't raise the goddamnmoney right being spent properly.
And I care becauseorganizations like leaders, we deserve,
(15:07):
we're doing the good work.We're raising millions of dollars
from small dollar donors,people who give on average less than,
you know, $50 to ourorganization. And it's what enables
us to give money to candidatesand say here you go ex candidate,
we're going to support you. Weknow that you agree that you're not
taking corporate money thatyou're going to have that you're
going to tell lobbyists to gofuck themselves basically when they
(15:29):
try to corrupt you becauseyou're on one of their committees
that they have a self interestin. And that is, that is the power
of what we have here. But we,I'm, I'm always here trying to make
sure that we're protecting aresmall dollar donors and we're not
abusing.
Yeah, absolutely, David. I'mso glad to hear that. And this obviously
is a problem that you inherit,you've inherited at the dnc. I know
you haven't been part of thisculture. I didn't want to make that,
(15:52):
let that hang there.
It would be a lot wealthier.
Yeah, yeah, you and me both.But you know the other thing that
I think I like this becausethe DNC needs to protect its brand
and, and you guys are a brandand you need to be a lot more assertive
in my estimate, humbleopinion. And, and I think you ought
to go one step further. Ithink you ought to have a reporting
(16:12):
service where we, I've lookedinto this. Sanction these consultants
or not. We, we list how muchmoney that they were in control of
and then we list their win andlose rate and then we list their
per vote cost because again,you know, in Georgia that race was
(16:33):
not close. Everybody knew itwasn't going to be close and they,
they could have pulled some ofthat money and spent it elsewhere
in Georgia, frankly, and had abetter effect. But I'm so glad to
hear that you're on this andyou understand that there's a problem
because you're right, we'vegot. I'm sorry, Go ahead, David.
When it comes to the reportingsystem, that is something that I
have talked about actively andhave been in discussions about the
(16:57):
main challenge. There's anumber of legal challenges that come
with it, unfortunately, as youcan imagine, because it's people's
businesses and there'schallenges around it. But I'm still,
I'm still looking intofiguring out how we can, how we can
create something that, that isa, a kind of like a report card system
ideally. But it's.
Well, if you guys, if you guysdon't, if you guys don't, we, maybe
(17:19):
we will here at AmericanMuckrakers because it's, it's really
a systematic problem. And, andwe're not just talking hypothetically
here. You know, we, we have avery small pack and for around 125
grand, we helped get rid ofMadison Cawthorn. Now granted, he
had dug his grave pretty deep,but, you know, we uncovered a lot
of crap about him that had acumulative effect on getting rid
(17:42):
of him in, you know, 2020 fora very small amount of money. And
we did the same thing withLauren Boebert, you know, for about
150 grand, we were the onlyserious pack or anybody that was
focused on that race. And youknow, we got her down to 546 votes.
All the while, you know,you're spending millions upon millions
in other races, Georgiaincluded, that they were never going
(18:03):
to be one and everybody knewit. And, and I actually reached out
to the consultant that wasinvolved and he blocked me on everything,
on all the socials andeverything else. And I just wanted
to have a civil discussion.But so glad to hear your focus on
that. I think that's reallyimportant because we've got great
candidates. We can raise themoney. It's just the money's being
missed.
I mean, maybe what you coulddo, maybe what you could do is you
(18:26):
could have a reporting servicewhere people are to come to you and
not like anonymously or likewithout it coming back to them and
report predatory consultantsand say specifically what they did.
So you like to do a campaignor something like that, and you guys,
you know, just rake them over the.
Coal bitch and moan. Doesyour. David, is that Democrats aren't
doing enough to oppose Trump?Now, you could disagree with that
(18:49):
or agree with it, but in yourestimation, what are the Democrats
doing? Right. And what shouldour listeners be doing more?
You know, I think what I amglad to see happening is there's
a lot of people going anddoing town halls around the country,
like Tim Walls, for example.Our chair, Ken Martin is also doing
town halls with the DNC aroundthe country. What I wish we were
(19:10):
able to do more of in a morecoordinated fashion is like, I would
really love to see like a dayevery, I don't know, every quarter
maybe, where everybody triesto hold a town hall with their member
of Congress, Democrat,Republican, doesn't matter, all of
them. And for the Republicansthat don't show up, just get an empty
chair and their opponent andjust have the town hall without them
and make them look awful inthe press. And I think part of what
(19:33):
we got to do, too, is makesure that we're really blowing some
of these races that we, thatare going on right now, specifically
in places like Wisconsin thatare so important for the presidential
out of the water. Right. ThisWisconsin Supreme Court race that
is going on for Judge SusanCrawford, that's on April 1, could
easily decide a presidentialelection because of, you know, whether
(19:55):
or not the Supreme Court thereupholds a voter or strikes down a
voter suppression law. It alsocould determine whether or not they
restrict abortion in Wisconsinand so much more. And I know that's
really challenging becausethat, that doesn't necessarily directly
address Donald Trump.
But I think in terms of whatpeople can do is, look, this party
(20:18):
is not going to get better onits own. It doesn't get better in
a vacuum. And what really,what really, what I want to see a
lot more of, what I think weneed a lot more of is, is, is people
who step up in these momentsand say, like, all right, like, I'm
going to work and figure outhow I can improve my, my local Democratic
Party. I'm going to, I'm goingto, I'm going to get involved in
my state party. And it's, youknow, I don't, I didn't run for vice
(20:39):
chair because this.
Is a fun job by any means. Infact, it's not even a job.
I'm not paid for. It's becauseit's important. I know that in order
for us to advance gun control,for us to, to win back young voters,
we have to build a strongerDemocratic Party. But I can't do
that on my own. We have tocome together right now in this moment
as a country, repel DonaldTrump and build the strongest Democratic
Party we have ever seen. Andwhat is not going to accomplish that
(21:03):
is just, is just us doing stepone of that, which is talking about
what is wrong. It is going tobe doing step two and three of that,
which is one, getting involvedto be part of the solution and two,
being the solution if, ifyou're not able to make it, you know,
with the people that arecurrently there. So get involved
in your local party. I knowit's not, it may not be. Sometimes
(21:26):
they may not be as active forwhatever reason. Sometimes they,
they may not be super wellorganized. These are led by volunteers
as well, and volunteers can bevery well organized, but they also
have lives, of course, getinvolved. This is not, this issue
is not going to fix itself. Wehave to fix this ourselves. And I
know that's not an incrediblysatisfying answer, but that is the
(21:47):
reality. And then the otherthing is, you know, help me find
some younger people that wouldbe great to run for Congress, for
city council, for statelegislature that my organization
leaders, we deserve, cansupport to help bring some fresh
blood into the DemocraticParty. Because we need an intergenerational
coalition. And the reality isright now, we don't have that numerically
speaking, there is one Gen Zmember of Congress and he has remained
(22:08):
the only Gen Z member ofCongress since 2022. That's Congressman
Maxwell Frost, my formerorganizer for March for Our Lives,
that I worked alongside. Andwe need a hell of a lot more people
like him in Congress and inour state legislatures and in our
city councils. There arehundreds, there are maybe there are
thousands and thousands,thousands of seats that people can
run for that we need Democratsto run for that. Our party needs
(22:30):
to build the power in. Andmany of them were young. You know,
people have never run beforebecause they are very Republican.
And I think we need to contestevery single race that we can, even
if we know it's going to be anuphill battle.
Yeah. David, you know, onething I'd recommend I ran for Congress
here in western North Carolinaback in 2020. And I was fortunate
that we were able to show thatit was going to be a close race and
(22:51):
I got the DCCC to help out.But some of my Democratic colleagues
that were running in districtsthat, you know, they knew they, you
know, they weren't going towin. You know, they couldn't get
anybody at the DCCC to answerthe telephone. So, you know, the
party wants somebody to runfor every, every office. But there
seems like there ought to besome minimum level of support that
comes along with that ratherthan just throwing people out there
(23:14):
on their own and expectingthem to, you know, shoulder the entire
burden.
Yeah, I think part of thechallenge is that there also is such
limited resources, too, andso, so much limited staffing that
we have to be, especiallybecause of the gerrymandering that
has happened and theconservative bias that our state
governments have that, youknow, the Senate has to. In our government
(23:37):
in general, there's reallylimited resources to be able to,
to work together onprioritizing which races are worked
on. But I agree with you. Ithink there should be a lot more
support specifically, even ifit's not, you know, a crazy, like,
I, obviously, I don't, I thinkit's really important than the races
that are the most competitivethat we're really prioritizing our
(23:58):
resources there to get thosecandidates across the finish line,
obviously. But I do agree withyou that there's, there's probably
a higher base level of supportthat the party as a whole can provide
for a lot of these, theseraces that are uncontested, typically
to make sure that people knowthat we see them, we care about them
and that we're, we're herewith them and that they are valued
because even if they aren'table to win their race, if they're
(24:19):
able to organize theircommunity more and help turn people
out that vote up ballot forstatewide elections in places like
North Carolina or Georgia,that's still really important and
meaningful. Yeah, but Itotally agree with you.
Yeah, you mentionedgerrymandering. Certainly North Carolina
is a prime example of that.You know, we really are a purple
state. You know, we've thelast three elections, you know, the
(24:39):
state has voted for, for Trumpby a couple of points. But we've
also elected Democraticgovernors on the same ticket. So
we truly are a purple state.Yet our legislature, you know, in
the last Congress we had sevenRepublicans and seven Democrats,
which reflected the truenature of North Carolina. Then the
Republican legislaturegerrymandered it. And so now it's
(25:00):
10 and 4, you know, but forthat gerrymandering, Congress would
be just about even rather thanthe Republicans having a slight majority.
But, you know, one of thefolks that got gerrymandered out
was Wiley Nicholl. He was aDemocrat representing one of the
districts in the eastern partof North Carolina. But we had him
on recently because, you know,he just left Congress in the early
(25:20):
part of January and he saidone of the things he tried to push
that didn't seem to get a lotof traction was having like a shadow
government. So, for example,like if Pete headseth, the Secretary
of Defense makes someoutrageous comment, have someone
like Pete Buttigieg that couldrespond from the Democratic side.
(25:42):
Because it seems like one ofthe frustrations, you know, that
we hear is that theRepublicans are doing these outrageous
things and people are lookingfor a Democratic response to it.
So I thought his idea had somemerit to it to have designated, you
know, folks that had expertisein a particular area that when the
other side says somethingstupid, you know, we can call them
on it.
Yeah, I think it's a greatidea. I, look, I've, I've called
(26:04):
up different.
Members of Congress andsuggested this exact same idea because
I think it's brilliant.
Yeah, I think folks just wantto hear a sensible answer that the
Democrats, you know, do have acoherent plan and some of this outrageous,
you know, bullshit that theRepublicans are throwing out there
that there is a bettersolution. Hey, one of the things
I want to ask you about is,you know, immigrants make up about
(26:25):
10% of the elect and Biden,you know, won by 21, the immigrant
vote by 27%. But then Trumpwon it this time by about a point.
What do we do to stem that? Imean, just to me it seems illogical
if you're an immigrant thatyou're supporting someone who, you
know, it's made it clear fromday one he's going to deport folks
(26:46):
that don't look like him. Howdo we do a better job of connecting
with those immigrant communities?
I mean, I think one, it's,it's talking about the issues that
all communities that, thataffect all communities or at least
99% of communities, which is, which.
Is that they are sufferingright now.
With the cost of living andespecially poor, low income and,
you know, predominantlyimmigrant communities we know are
(27:07):
not necessarily as affluent asmany other, you know.
Second or third generation communities.
And when prices skyrocket andthey feel like the system is not
working for them, they'regoing to vote for somebody who they
believe is going to help blowup the system. Now, do I think that
Trump's trying to blow up thesystem for everyday people in the
right way? Absolutely not. Ithink he's trying to blow it up so
that he's able to deregulateindustry and able to consolidate
(27:31):
power around a corporateoligarchic 1% by cutting their taxes.
But I think this speaks to thenecessity of our party needing to
talk about the real need forreform within our government, not
endlessly defending ourinstitutions, but talking in a real
way about how, yes, they arenot perfect. Here's our plan to make
them better, and not justendlessly saying, like, oh, these
(27:53):
are, or implying that theseare perfect or that there isn't anything
that needs to be changed. Whenpeople are really furious at this
moment and they feel likeincreasingly the American dream is.
Is. Is only a dream and it'snot going to be possible. Possible
for them, no matter how hardthey work. I also think that, one,
we have to understand that theimmigrant community is not a monolith,
(28:14):
obviously. And while somerecent immigrants to this country
are understandably proimmigration, there are very, very
many that are actually not proimmigration that have. Where there
is a kind of mentality thatthey, once they've walked through
the door, they don't wantanybody else coming in after them.
And I think that's a broaderphilosophical conversation that has
to be had in our country aboutwho we are and what our identity
(28:35):
is. But I also think it speaksto our broken immigration system
right now and how many people.Nobody likes to feel like they're
getting cut in line at all.Right. And we have to fix our immigration
system so that it is more fairso that people can come here legally
and don't have to do so. Ily Right.
Yeah, that's, you know, that'sone of the areas where I think we.
(28:56):
We really missed anopportunity. You know, we had a bipartisan
bill that was set to be passedto try to, you know, the most comprehensive
immigration bill in ageneration, and Donald Trump killed
it just to use it as apolitical talking point. And it just
seems like we didn't do a verygood job of exploiting that. The
impediment to trying toaddress the immigrant problem was
(29:19):
Donald Trump.
Yeah. I mean, honestly,personally, I think the bigger issue
is that we didn't talk aboutenough of what we were doing to address
the crisis by addressing it atthe source in a lot of Central American
countries that people werecoming from because of violence,
because of governmentdestabilization and Other things.
And that, that I think issymbolic of a bigger problem that
the administration had, whichis that, you know, President Biden
(29:41):
was an incredible commander inchief and in regards to how much
he was able to do in domesticpolicy, especially around guns, unfortunately,
he was not a communicator inchief. And in politics, if you were
able to get a lot of shitdone, but people do not know that
that was because of what youdid. It doesn't matter, because appearance
is reality. Yeah. We reallyfailed to talk about what we were
doing and the dramatic declinethat we had in the number of people
(30:05):
applying for asylum, thenumber of people attempting to illegally
immigrate to our countrybecause of the work the administration
did to address it in. At thesource rather than at the border.
And that's. And that's one ofthe areas where this, you know, eliminating
USAID is going to bite us inthe ass because it's. We were helping
people to make life better intheir. Where they were, and they
(30:27):
didn't feel the need to, youknow, try to flee to a safer environment.
And cutting that off is. Isnot in our interest.
Well, yeah, and it's actuallyvery much in. In China's interest.
I mean, there was a.Immediately after we cut off, I think
it was like a $500 milliongrant or something like that to to
Nepal for their electric gridand some infrastructure. I think
it was. Within 24 hours, Chinastepped up and said, hey, we'll fund
(30:49):
this and you just give us yourairport that we want to build. Right.
People are stepping into thatrole, and it's not for a good reason.
Yeah.
And it's. You know, I thinkpart of the difficulty here is, is
that I don't, I don't. I. Idon't think us trying to go. Trying
to think of how to say this. Ithink that there has to be an acknowledgment
that we are a country ofimmigrants. Right. And that we're
(31:11):
gonna. We want people to comehere illegally. We don't. We don't
want people having to comehere illegally in the first place.
Right.
But the reality is the people.The people are walking thousands
of miles to come to ourcountry, not because they necessarily
are just like, oh, you knowwhat I want to do is like, I just
want to come here. It's. It'sbecause they're terrified for their
lives most time.
Right.
Like, they're fearing fortheir lives and they're trying to
come. Nobody leaves their homecountry to go to a country that they
(31:33):
don't even.
Speak the language of a lot of.
The time on a whim, it'sbecause they don't have any other
choice. And our nation has along history of bringing in people
like that that have made. Madea. That. That has made us who we
are as a country, that hasmade us an incredibly powerful and
diverse country that finds ourstrength in that diversity. And as
that is happening throughoutour history, there are a lot of.
(31:55):
There's a lot of pushback andxenophobia that happens and other
things like that. And I thinkthat we just have what we are doing
to build a more fairimmigration system where people can
come here legally and offeringrefuge for people that truly have
nowhere else to go and areterrified for their lives. Because
I know when our country givespeople like that a chance, they're
(32:17):
incredibly. They're incrediblypowerful Americans and members of
our society that contribute somuch to our country.
Right. You know, in recentweeks, we've had, like, Adam Kinzinger
and Rick Wilson and DavidJolly on. And one of the things we've
talked about is, you know, itseems like, you know, the Republicans
are ruthless. You know,they're totally committed to winning
it, you know, at any cost. Youknow, like here in North Carolina,
(32:39):
we've seen them break the lawto do it, but it seems like, you
know, they're ruthless. And onthe other side, Democrats want to
be polite and follow therules, and, you know, if we don't
win, you know, your policypositions don't matter because you
don't have the ability toimplement them. So it seems like,
you know, kind of a commonrefrain has been that Democrats have
to have more backbone and amore forceful response than we've
(33:00):
had in the past. I mean, theanalogy I've used, like, when I was
running is, you know, if theRepublicans come to the. To a knife
fight with the machete and weshow up with a quinoa salad, how
can we. We got to do a betterjob of being more aggressive and
having a stronger message andfighting harder. So do you see us
doing that.
One way or another? Yeah.Either. Either things stay the same,
(33:20):
and there's a dramatic changein our leadership throughout the
party at every level, or ourleaders get their act together, and
we start fighting a hell of alot harder. I think part of what
we have to do, though, is thatwe got to bring in a new generation
of young people that are firedup and ready to take on this challenge
and take on Donald Trump. Andthat's exactly why I do this work
with leaders we deserve tohelp elect Young Democrats to state
(33:43):
legislatures in Congress allaround the country who are fighters
that are not going to be justwhen our democracy is under attack,
not just be like, well, youknow, this is the parliamentary procedure.
These are these, you know, allthis stuff, all these, all this academic,
you know, this whole academicapproach when we're in a fight for
our lives here as a country, afight for our democracy. And when
I, when I think about this,when you ask people in a focus group
(34:05):
if the Democratic Party was ananimal, you know what the most common
answer is?
No turtle.
You know, for Republicans,it's a lion or a shark.
Yeah, that's.
And regardless of whether ornot you agree with Republicans, the,
there is an appeal of havingsomebody who fights like hell for
you. And right now people justdo not feel like we fight like hell
for them.
Yep.
And we've got to change that.That's part of why I stepped up in
(34:28):
this role is because I'm, I'mused to fighting like hell for gun
control and I'm going tocontinue doing that, but I'm going
to fight like hell for all theother issues that drive gun violence
that the Democratic Partyplatform is built on addressing.
Right. Poverty, inequality andlack of opportunity more than anything
for so many.
So David, you, you talked,you've alluded to a couple leaders
(34:50):
across the country for, forour listeners who are looking for
somebody to back, somebody tofollow and support can. And again,
this is not the DNC endorsinganybody or anything, but from your
perspective, who are a coupleof the superstars that we ought to
keep an eye on?
I think Congressman MaxwellFrost for sure, he needs our support
as the only Gen Z member ofCongress and somebody who doesn't
(35:12):
come from a super wealthyfamily or anything like that. And
then I also think that it'shonestly Susan Crawford like we got
to win that race. JeffJackson's great too, obviously. But
if anybody is going to donateto something other than the dnc,
obviously I would stronglyurge you to consider making a donation
to Susan Crawford's race.
True, that's true. That's anextremely important race. So folks,
(35:34):
do us a favor and, and findher on the Internet and make a donation
today and help her with thatcampaign. So David, what, what gets
you up in the morning andwhat, what motivates you to, to help
building this party andhelping elect Democrats?
I think it's the fact that wehave delivered, even though we've
been terrible at advertising,what we've done, we've done a lot
(35:56):
of really good work evenThough it's not perfect by any means.
And just take guns, forexample. We, under Biden's presidency,
we passed the first federalgun law in 30 years. And we also
created the Office of GunViolence Prevention at the White
House. That office was taskedwith enforcing our gun laws, in coordinating
the federal government'sresponse to gun violence. And it
(36:17):
was tasked with overseeing theallocation of billions of dollars
into programs aimed atcombating gun violence and funding
mental health resources in ourschool. And because of that, they
were able to hire thousandsand thousands of school guidance
counselors and mental healthcounselors because of the law that
we passed after Uvalde. Andthey were able to expand background
checks for people under theage of 21 attempting to buy a gun
(36:39):
like the AR15 to the pointthat over 1200 high risk individuals
have been prevented frombuying weapons like the AR15 that
previously would not.
And as a result of all these.
Efforts, in the past twoyears, from 2023 to 2024, we saw
about a 25% or so reduction ingun violence and gun homicides around
the country.
That is nowhere near enough.
But those two years mark thelargest one year reductions in gun
(37:03):
homicides in American history.That is remarkable.
Part of the challenge that we have.
Though, as Democrats is a lotof the policies that we're fighting
for, we're not going to getrewarded for because you're not going
to hear about the shootingthat doesn't happen. You're not going
to hear about the person thatdoesn't die in a hurricane that doesn't
happen because of theInflation Reduction act and how much
(37:24):
work that did to reduce theeffects of climate change and subsidize,
you know, renewables, forexample. But ultimately, I know that
we're, we are improvingpeople's lives. So many of the things
that people are most worriedabout being under attack are the
product of incredibleDemocratic achievements. Right from
Social Security to Medicaidand Medicare. Our party, time and
time throughout our historyhas delivered to improve the social
(37:46):
safety net of the Americanpeople and saved and improved millions
of lives. Tens of millions oflives. Hundreds, frankly, hundreds
of millions of lives becauseof that work. And I know that we
have so much potential if wecan just change our priorities slightly
to help focus on building morehousing, building more transit, and
addressing a lot of the issuesthat our friends in our rural communities
(38:07):
are also facing, to stand upfor the 99% and not, and not let
Trump continue to get awaywith his tax cuts for billionaires,
with his deregulation for allthese corrupt industries. And other
things like that. We just haveto regain the trust of the American
people by going back to ourvalues and showing how we're delivering
on the issues that matter to them.
(38:28):
I think you're, I think you'reright. I think it's kind of back
to basics for the DemocraticParty, in my opinion. And, you know,
we're just going to have toride out Trump for a while and beat
him up when we can. But, so,so who else is involved? Tell, tell
us, tell our listeners aboutthe rest of the executive team at
the dnc, our new chair and theother vice chairs, if you don't mind.
(38:48):
Yeah, I mean, we have a greatexecutive team at the dnc. They're
all on our website, to beclear. But one of the people that
I serve with is MalcolmKenyatta. He's a state rep from Pennsylvania.
And then, sorry, there'sMalcolm Kenyatta, he's a state rep
from Pennsylvania. He's myfellow vice chair. There's Artie
Blanco, who's a major, likelabor leader from Nevada. And then
(39:08):
there is our chair of Civicengagement and voter participation,
who I believe is from NorthCarolina. Her name's Reina and she's
helping combat a lot of votersuppression stuff. She's an incredible,
talented advocate. And then wealso have our chair, our ASDC chair,
which is the association ofState Democratic Party Chairs. And
that's Jane Kleeb fromNebraska. She's awesome. And there's
(39:32):
a few other people as well.But I, yeah, that. That's who our
core team is. And Ken Martin,obviously is the former head of the
Minnesota Democratic Party.And what makes me excited about that
is Minnesota, despite having avery slim margin, was able to do
a lot very successfully toadvance and pass a progressive agenda
despite having a super slimmajority in the state legislature.
(39:52):
And he has a lot of experienceand he's a workhorse, too. He just
kind of just puts his headdown and does the work.
David, one of the things Ineglected to mention when I introduced
you is that you were. You madethe Time magazine Hundred Most Influential
People list back in 2018,graduate from Harvard at 24. You're
the DNC vice chair. What's thefuture hold for David Hogg? What
(40:14):
are you looking at down the road?
Maybe going to law schooleventually, but I can't afford that
right now, contrary to theconspiracy theories. But you know,
what I'm really lookingforward to is building the strongest
Democratic Party that I can.When I was younger, I originally
said that I wanted to run forCongress when I was 25. And then
I realized I would be a lotmore helpful to the gun safety movement
(40:37):
and the, the Democratic Partyas well if I work to elect more incredibly
talented people where insteadof me just being one vote, even if
I had the honor of beingelected, I could help elect 30 or
40, maybe the cycle, even 50incredible young people around the
country. And that's why Istarted Leaders We Deserve, which
is our. The PAC and super PACthat I run that helps elect young
(40:59):
Democrats to statelegislatures in Congress. Our model
is very similar to Emily'sList, just for young progressive
Democrats running for statelegislature, Congress and probably
city council this cycle aswell. We're potentially going to
do a pilot program on that.
And what I describe us as is.
Kind of like top gun for youngpeople running for state legislature
in Congress where we find, youknow, the best of the best of the
best of our generation and doeverything we can to get them elected.
(41:21):
And I co founded thisorganization with Kevin Lata, who
was Maxwell Frost's campaignmanager and has tons of campaign
experience. And last cycle weelected the youngest person to four
different chambers around thecountry. And we spent $100,000 supporting
Dante Pittman, the candidatein North Carolina who ended up breaking
the super majority there as well.
Well, listen, I know, youknow, the work you've done on, on
(41:43):
gun safety. I mean, I know formyself personally I get a couple
of death threats and a lot ofhateful backlash on, on social media.
And I'm sure what I get palesin comparison to what you get.
Welcome to the club.
I guess. How do you deal withthat? I mean, how does that. I'm
sure you get barraged a lotmore than I do and I know you've
(42:03):
been swatted and all the otherstuff. How do you, how do you keep
pressing?
Um, honestly, it's just likeit gets. It becomes so much that
you just kind of become numbto it and also just learn how to
laugh at it more than anythingand have a good group of support
and, and friends around youthat, you know, we'll call you in
if, if there, if there issomething going wrong or they need
(42:24):
to check in with you. Butultimately it's just making fun of
them more than anything. Andalso knowing that thankfully I'm
going to outlive a lot ofthose people who, who are the most
against me, like the MarjorieTaylor Greene's of the world.
So, yeah, one of my, one of myfavorites I get on social media is
nobody gives a what you think,which, the fact that you responded
(42:44):
exactly.
Yeah, my favorite is Wheeler.Go yourself. And I'm like, my. Okay,
well, how do you do that? AndI might if you'd explain it to me.
Anyway, David, I don't know ifyou drink alcohol or not, but we.
We talk a lot about bourbonhere because of Mose. And with bourbon,
(43:05):
are you a bourbon guy or not?
Really? I. I try to. I try tokeep a sober mind working in politics.
You're a very smart man.
You will.
You will be successful.
I. I will say, sometimes doingthis work, I. I'm like, you know
what? I understand why so manypoliticians and other people end
up becoming alcoholics. It iswell for.
(43:28):
Fortunately, Mo's not analcoholic. And I know you didn't
mean it that way.
No, no, no, no, no. I don'tmean it that way at all. I' moderation.
It's just we're going througha lot right now.
Yeah, yeah. Well, I. Listen,I. I think the fact that you're on
the DNC is Shake things up.Don't be timid. Please keep up the.
Oh, I won't keep up this. Thisattitude of, if it ain't working,
(43:51):
fix it. And also just keepbanging away on getting younger people
there. I mean this. You know,I think Chuck Schumer's helped your
effort a lot in this lastweek. And listen, I've been a fan
of his. I don't begrudge him,but God damn it, why do these people
stick around so long? Youknow, even Dick Durbin, who I'm a
big supporter of because Ilived in Chicago and a big fan of
(44:13):
his, and he does a lot ofgreat stuff. Why don't they give
somebody else a chance once ina while? I just. That is a rhetorical
question that vice chair ofthe DNC will never answer. But we
got to get younger people into some of these safe seats as well,
and I trust that you'll keeppushing the party in the. That direction.
(44:34):
All right, well.
That's a good place for us tostop today. That's a wrap for this
episode of MUCK YOU!, ,wherewecut through the crap and call it
like it is. If you like whatyou heard, please subscribe, share,
and spread the word. We'rehere to hold the powerful accountable.
Remind you that democracyisn't a damn spectator sport. So
stay informed, stay engaged,and most importantly, keep your eye
(44:56):
on the bigger picture. Mo. AndI'll catch you next time with more
facts backspire and a wholelot less. Until then, on behalf of
Mo, David, and myself, muck you.
This has been MUCK YOU!, cohosted by colonel Moe Davis in Asheville,
North Carolina and DavidWheeler in Spruce Pine, North Carolina.
Thanks to our guest today,David Hogg, a Vice Chair of the Democratic
(45:19):
National Committee and founderof Leaders We Deserve Pack and co
founder of March for OurLives. MUCK YOU! i produced by American
Muckrakers. Copyright 2025.You can learn more and donate@americanmuckrakers.com
Follow us on X and Blue skyunder American Muck. Come back soon
for a new episode.
Welcome back folks to Muck Uwhere we cut through the noise and
dig into the truth. No sugarcoating, no spin, just the raw, unfiltered
conversations that matter. I'mDavid Wheeler and as always, I'm
joined by my co host and goodfriend, the one and only Colonel
Mo Davis, who's going tointroduce us to our guest.
Well, thanks good to be withyou again and thanks everybody for
(00:42):
joining in. And you know,we're continuing with a long streak
of, of really interestingguests and we're honored today to
have David Hog on. I mean, Iwas, I was, I guess I'd kind of lost
track of time. I was thinkingback, you know, David kind of got
thrust into the spotlight backin February of 2018 with the shooting
at Stoneman Douglas HighSchool down in South Florida that
(01:02):
claimed 17 lives. And he'sbeen in the spotlight pretty much
ever, ever since. Mostrecently, you know, if you're, if
you're paying attention to thenews, you know that last month he
was elected vice chair of theDemocratic National Committee, which
I'm guessing at the age of 24is probably the youngest person to
hold that job. But, but inbetween he's written a, he and his
(01:24):
sister written a best sellingbook. He's graduated from Harvard,
which we have something incommon. I'm a graduate of Appalachian
State University and manypeople say that Harvard is the Appalachian
state of New England. So wow,we, we have that in common. But hey,
David, it's a real pleasure tohave you on today. Thank you for
taking time to do this.
Absolutely. Thank you forhaving me.
(01:45):
Well, listen, let's talk aboutthe, the new role you're taking on
is a vice chair of theDemocratic National Committee. You
and Ken Martin are steppinginto, to a pretty big role. I mean,
you know, we just got, youknow, we've lost control of the Supreme
Court, of the Congress, of theWhite House. Polling shows that 27%
(02:06):
of Americans have a favorableopinion of the Democratic Party.
So why'd you take on such aneasy job?
You know, I'm a big believerin leading by example. And I think
one of the most importantthings that we can do in our country
and in our party and in lifeis not just talk about what's wrong.
It's to talk about what we'regoing to do differently and how we're
(02:27):
going to be part of thesolution. And what happened is I,
you know, we saw one of thelargest shifts to the right of 18
to 29 year olds in Americanhistory this past cycle. And when
I was at a DNC meeting as amember of the public, just watching,
and they said one of the mainreasons why we lost was because of
younger voters, specificallypeople under the age of 29. I looked
around the room and I didn'tsee anybody under the age of 40 besides
(02:49):
the DNC staff. So I saw anopportunity for myself to be part
of the change that I wanted tosee and not just complain online,
not just say I think we'redoing things wrong, but to be part
of the solution, hopefully towin back our young people and just
deliver competent andeffective leaders that can help bring
our country out of thismoment, that can deliver on lowering
the cost of living for people,lowering the cost of housing, lowering
(03:12):
the cost of health care andlowering the cost of education as
well. And yeah, to be clear,too, in this role, there are multiple
vice chairs. Thankfully, I'mnot taking this on alone. In this
role, there are several othersthat are also vice chairs.
Well, you mentioned aboutyoung people and getting engaged.
I don't know if you saw. Therewas a Ezra Klein at a piece in the
(03:33):
New York Times on Tuesday isan interview with Democratic pollster
David Shore. And Shore did areally interesting analysis of the
change in America's politicalenvironment from 2016 to 2024. But
one of the things he talkedabout is what you just mentioned.
He said that in the age group26 and under, that only women of
(03:56):
color in that group voted forKamala Harris and that, you know,
white women and men, bothwhite men and men of color, all voted
for Trump. So by about 23percentage points. So how do we close
that gap? How do we get youngpeople back on the progressive side?
(04:17):
I mean, one, I think it'sspeaking to the reality of what a
lot of them are facing. Ithink more than anything, part of
the when I was running forthis role of vice chair and people
asked me why we lost or mythoughts on why we lost, I said,
look, voters told us twothings this election. They told us
that prices were too high andJoe Biden was too old. And with the
power of $2 billion behind us,we said, no, he's not. And then,
(04:38):
yes, he is. And then we said,no, they aren't. And when you tell
voters not to believe theireyes or their wallets, you're going
to lose them. And I think themost important thing that our party
can do going forward is one,acknowledge reality. When prices
are too high, just talk abouthow they are too high, but tell people
what we're doing about itright and that goes for any multitude
of other issues. And with thattoo, I think we got to do a lot more
(04:59):
work to acknowledge the workthat our party needs to do in our
blue states to govern better,specifically around the costs of
living. Increasingly, youknow, I ended up in, I ended up in
Parkland in the first placebecause my family couldn't afford
to live there anymore. Myfather was diagnosed with early onset
Parkinson's disease and he wasfacing an early medical retirement.
And the reality was, with thecost of living in California, specifically
(05:22):
that of housing, that myfamily knew that we were most likely
not going to be able tocontinue to pay our mortgage if we
remained in California. So wemoved to Parkland where we were able
to have a much lower cost ofliving. And of course, things have
changed in the time since inFlorida, but that's the reality we
had in 2014. And if our, wehave to do a lot more work to get
better at building housing andaddressing the cost of living, especially
(05:44):
in our blue states that inmany ways, in my opinion, have become
the victim of their ownsuccess. They've had massive economic
growth in places likeCalifornia and Massachusetts. In
Illinois, however, they havenot done, we've not done effective
work as a party to make surethat we, we're keeping costs low
for people so that they canafford to continue to live there
in the first place. And Ithink the way that we're going to
(06:05):
win back our young people, theway we're going to win back our young
people is talking about theissues that matter them. And more
than anything, far more thanthat, showing them what we're actually
doing to deliver on that. Howwe're making their communities more,
more walkable, how we'remaking their communities safer, um,
and how we're making life more affordable.
Yeah, well, you know, it to meis frustrating. The, you know, what
(06:27):
seeming kind of ineptitude inmessaging on the Democratic side.
I mean, I thought, you know,Joe Biden wasn't perfect, but considering,
you know, the economy heinherited, you know, in the post,
Covid, coming out of COVID andcompared to the rest of the world,
economically, America was inbetter shape than most any other
country around the world. Butwe did a horrible job of communicating
(06:50):
that to the public andparticularly young people. One of
the things I note. Oh, goahead. I'm sorry.
No, no, I, I, I understandwhat you're saying there, but I,
I do want to push back alittle bit in that I think the way
that we were looking atinflation, election cycle was wrong
in that we did end up loweringthe cost of a lot of things, like,
you know, consumer goods, forexample, even though they were higher
(07:12):
for a time. But the reality isthe things that everybody has to
buy, and this includes beforeCOVID but it was especially exacerbated
since the cost of education,the cost of health care, housing,
and so much more has gottenastronomically more expensive than
it was decades ago. And it gotespecially bad with rents during
COVID And I think that waspart of the biggest disconnect that
(07:33):
we had as a party. The placesthat we saw, some of the places that
we saw shift the most to theright correlated with the largest
rises in rents that we had.And I think that's a product of our
consultant class who often owntheir homes or have a very low interest
rate mortgage that areinherently not going to feel that
same pressure that a lot ofour young people are that.
Are experiencing their rentsgoing up, you.
(07:53):
Know, 20 or 30%. Andunfortunately, too, even if we are
doing better at managinginflation than other countries, we
don't care about that becausewe already assume that we're going
to be on top and that we'regoing to be the best because we're
America.
Right?
And I think what we really hadto do a better job of, in my opinion,
was acknowledging that rentshave gotten higher. And we did towards
(08:14):
the end of the campaign, more,but it was way too late by that point.
And talking about what we weredoing to lower those costs and crack
down on corporate landlordsand others, how do.
We, you know, the data showedthat voters that are disengaged,
that aren't really payingattention, are more likely to go
further to the right. Andanother stat showed that about 4
(08:34):
out of 10 folks under the ageof 30 get their news. Their primary
news source is TikTok. So howdo we do a better job of penetrating
through the bubble and beingable to communicate with, you know,
young folks under 30 who aregetting their news on TikTok and
the disengaged voters outthere who aren't paying that close
of attention to politics.
I think we got to understandone, that Donald Trump treats politics
(08:57):
like it's a WrestleMania, andwe treat it like it's C Span. We
understand that.
We, it seems like we haveforgotten that that politics is spectacle,
it is theater. And we also,because of our consultant class that
makes so much money off ofdigital ads, that make so much money
off of key, you know, cableand TV and broadcast news, they have
(09:18):
20 years of relationships thatactively incentivize them, disincentivize
them from innovating andreaching places where younger voters
are currently. Because thatmay threaten their business model.
It may threaten how they'regoing to get their fourth house on
Martha's Vineyard. Right. AndI think what we need to do in the
party is we need ourpolitician. We need a hell of a lot
(09:40):
more young people in our partythat know how to communicate effectively
on social media. And for theolder people in the party, too, we
need to give them the trainingto understand how to make a TikTok,
and not in like a reallycringy way, but in a way where they're
saying, hey, you know, myname's Kirk Watson, for example.
I'm the mayor of Austin,Texas, a good friend of mine. I like
him a lot. And this is whatwe've done on housing. This is how
(10:04):
we've lowered our rents in ourcity by 20% over the past year, even
as rents have skyrocketedelsewhere in our state. It's because
Democrats took charge. Theyeffectively governed and lowered
the price of housing, loweredthe price of rent in our city even
as it continued to grow. Whatit looks like is people like New
York City Councilman ShiAussie, who at the age of, I think
(10:26):
is 26, was able to use TikTokto talk about something very unpopular,
which are broker fees in NewYork City, tell people how to show
up at a New York City Councilmeeting to talk about and advocate
for abolishing broker fees,and got a meeting that typically
had, I think it was, you know,maybe a couple dozen people that
were all self interested inkeeping broker fees. Got several
(10:48):
hundred people in a linearound the block to show up to demand
that broker fees be ended andabolished. And told that story as
it was happening, as he wasworking on building the coalition
to do that, and then showedpeople and claimed victory about
how they actually did end upputting the broker fees onto the
landlord rather than thetenant. What I think it looks like
(11:09):
is people like Jeff Jackson inNorth Carolina, where I think has
done an excellent job ofspeaking direct to camera and telling
people what is going on andwhat he is doing. I think it also
looks like people like RobStant, right, in Iowa, talking about
how they're fightingcorruption, you know, really broad
things that everybody, ofevery demographic, I would argue
every party agrees with. Youknow, more efficiency, less corruption,
(11:31):
and doing that on social mediaand showing people how to get involved
there. Because right now we'rejust. We're not doing that nearly
enough.
Well, that's a good segue toone of the bees in my bonnet, David,
which is the consultant class.And I always use the example of the
Marjorie Taylor Greene raceAtlanta. That race has dozens of
(11:51):
children and rebuilt minikitchens and bought many boats for
many consultants on theDemocratic side. And it just irks
the holy hell out of me that$16 million and it spent in 2000
on that race on the Democraticside and we still lost by 34. How
do we disintermediate some ofthis consultant class and make sure
(12:14):
that candidates know, you knowwhat, if you're going to go with
this consultant who clearlyhas a track record of simply pocketing
donor money and not winningraces, you know, candidate X or candidate
Y, you know, you're not goingto get Democratic support. As a matter
of fact, we're going to shun you.
Yeah. I think the first andfor the first and most important
thing in my opinion is ourparty. In my view, we've got to put
(12:36):
more guidance out publicly forcampaigns at the local, state and
federal level to theirmanagers and candidates that says
here are the standard ratesthat people charge like, here's the
range of like, plus or minus5% of like what the, what the median
person charges for TV ads,digital ads, their commissions, their
(12:58):
rates and their fee structureand anything that is beyond this
should be highly suspect. Andyou can call this number at, you
know, ex Democraticorganization, whichever, you know,
level they're running for, andask is this a fair rate or am I getting
ripped off instead of justbeing told by the self interested
consultant, oh yeah, you know,me charging 40% for this is a really
(13:20):
good rate because then it'sfrankly, I think for a lot of managers
and other people it'sembarrassing to be, to have to confront
the fact that they've beenmisled, they've been manipulated
and that, that they've beenlied to. And to them, what happens
a lot of the time I think isthey're like, well, we're already
bringing in a lot of moneyanyways and I know that they might
be high, charging a fee that'stoo high, but look, we're still bringing
in this money. I think we needto have way better standards across
(13:41):
our party of showing peoplewhat the standard rates are to charge
for these different productsand class and these different products
in consulting. Because rightnow that just does not exist nearly
enough from what I've seen orreally at all. I also think that
we got to speak publicly whenwe've been wronged by a consultant.
People love to say, oh, youknow, these consultants are such
(14:03):
a problem and then like theydon't, but they never name names
and because they're afraid.But this is a collective action problem.
People are going to have tospeak out and say this person is
a problem. They ripped offthis person, they threatened this
person in this race that ifthey didn't hire them that they would
get somebody in the primary.Which is something that is actually
happened to one of thecandidates that we've supported before
for leaders we deserve. Andthat's a big part of what we do is
(14:23):
helping our candidates one,not get ripped off by consultants
and two, making sure we'reprotecting them from predatory consultants
that do things like that. Butwe're have to start naming names
publicly if we ever reallywant to start this, if we ever want
to make this change. I evenhave heard stories of members of
Congress that have had to keeppeople on their payroll simply because
(14:45):
they're worried that thatperson's going to get somebody else
in their primary. That's just,that's just. How is that not extortion?
That's bullshit that, that'sfucking. Sorry. It's bullshit that
that's happening. And ourparty has to stand up and say something
about it. Because the reasonwe're losing here is not because
we can't raise the goddamnmoney right being spent properly.
And I care becauseorganizations like leaders, we deserve,
(15:07):
we're doing the good work.We're raising millions of dollars
from small dollar donors,people who give on average less than,
you know, $50 to ourorganization. And it's what enables
us to give money to candidatesand say here you go ex candidate,
we're going to support you. Weknow that you agree that you're not
taking corporate money thatyou're going to have that you're
going to tell lobbyists to gofuck themselves basically when they
(15:29):
try to corrupt you becauseyou're on one of their committees
that they have a self interestin. And that is, that is the power
of what we have here. But we,I'm, I'm always here trying to make
sure that we're protecting aresmall dollar donors and we're not
abusing.
Yeah, absolutely, David. I'mso glad to hear that. And this obviously
is a problem that you inherit,you've inherited at the dnc. I know
you haven't been part of thisculture. I didn't want to make that,
(15:52):
let that hang there.
It would be a lot wealthier.
Yeah, yeah, you and me both.But you know the other thing that
I think I like this becausethe DNC needs to protect its brand
and, and you guys are a brandand you need to be a lot more assertive
in my estimate, humbleopinion. And, and I think you ought
to go one step further. Ithink you ought to have a reporting
(16:12):
service where we, I've lookedinto this. Sanction these consultants
or not. We, we list how muchmoney that they were in control of
and then we list their win andlose rate and then we list their
per vote cost because again,you know, in Georgia that race was
(16:33):
not close. Everybody knew itwasn't going to be close and they,
they could have pulled some ofthat money and spent it elsewhere
in Georgia, frankly, and had abetter effect. But I'm so glad to
hear that you're on this andyou understand that there's a problem
because you're right, we'vegot. I'm sorry, Go ahead, David.
When it comes to the reportingsystem, that is something that I
have talked about actively andhave been in discussions about the
(16:57):
main challenge. There's anumber of legal challenges that come
with it, unfortunately, as youcan imagine, because it's people's
businesses and there'schallenges around it. But I'm still,
I'm still looking intofiguring out how we can, how we can
create something that, that isa, a kind of like a report card system
ideally. But it's.
Well, if you guys, if you guysdon't, if you guys don't, we, maybe
(17:19):
we will here at AmericanMuckrakers because it's, it's really
a systematic problem. And, andwe're not just talking hypothetically
here. You know, we, we have avery small pack and for around 125
grand, we helped get rid ofMadison Cawthorn. Now granted, he
had dug his grave pretty deep,but, you know, we uncovered a lot
of crap about him that had acumulative effect on getting rid
(17:42):
of him in, you know, 2020 fora very small amount of money. And
we did the same thing withLauren Boebert, you know, for about
150 grand, we were the onlyserious pack or anybody that was
focused on that race. And youknow, we got her down to 546 votes.
All the while, you know,you're spending millions upon millions
in other races, Georgiaincluded, that they were never going
(18:03):
to be one and everybody knewit. And, and I actually reached out
to the consultant that wasinvolved and he blocked me on everything,
on all the socials andeverything else. And I just wanted
to have a civil discussion.But so glad to hear your focus on
that. I think that's reallyimportant because we've got great
candidates. We can raise themoney. It's just the money's being
missed.
I mean, maybe what you coulddo, maybe what you could do is you
(18:26):
could have a reporting servicewhere people are to come to you and
not like anonymously or likewithout it coming back to them and
report predatory consultantsand say specifically what they did.
So you like to do a campaignor something like that, and you guys,
you know, just rake them over the.
Coal bitch and moan. Doesyour. David, is that Democrats aren't
doing enough to oppose Trump?Now, you could disagree with that
(18:49):
or agree with it, but in yourestimation, what are the Democrats
doing? Right. And what shouldour listeners be doing more?
You know, I think what I amglad to see happening is there's
a lot of people going anddoing town halls around the country,
like Tim Walls, for example.Our chair, Ken Martin is also doing
town halls with the DNC aroundthe country. What I wish we were
(19:10):
able to do more of in a morecoordinated fashion is like, I would
really love to see like a dayevery, I don't know, every quarter
maybe, where everybody triesto hold a town hall with their member
of Congress, Democrat,Republican, doesn't matter, all of
them. And for the Republicansthat don't show up, just get an empty
chair and their opponent andjust have the town hall without them
and make them look awful inthe press. And I think part of what
(19:33):
we got to do, too, is makesure that we're really blowing some
of these races that we, thatare going on right now, specifically
in places like Wisconsin thatare so important for the presidential
out of the water. Right. ThisWisconsin Supreme Court race that
is going on for Judge SusanCrawford, that's on April 1, could
easily decide a presidentialelection because of, you know, whether
(19:55):
or not the Supreme Court thereupholds a voter or strikes down a
voter suppression law. It alsocould determine whether or not they
restrict abortion in Wisconsinand so much more. And I know that's
really challenging becausethat, that doesn't necessarily directly
address Donald Trump.
But I think in terms of whatpeople can do is, look, this party
(20:18):
is not going to get better onits own. It doesn't get better in
a vacuum. And what really,what really, what I want to see a
lot more of, what I think weneed a lot more of is, is, is people
who step up in these momentsand say, like, all right, like, I'm
going to work and figure outhow I can improve my, my local Democratic
Party. I'm going to, I'm goingto, I'm going to get involved in
my state party. And it's, youknow, I don't, I didn't run for vice
(20:39):
chair because this.
Is a fun job by any means. Infact, it's not even a job.
I'm not paid for. It's becauseit's important. I know that in order
for us to advance gun control,for us to, to win back young voters,
we have to build a strongerDemocratic Party. But I can't do
that on my own. We have tocome together right now in this moment
as a country, repel DonaldTrump and build the strongest Democratic
Party we have ever seen. Andwhat is not going to accomplish that
(21:03):
is just, is just us doing stepone of that, which is talking about
what is wrong. It is going tobe doing step two and three of that,
which is one, getting involvedto be part of the solution and two,
being the solution if, ifyou're not able to make it, you know,
with the people that arecurrently there. So get involved
in your local party. I knowit's not, it may not be. Sometimes
(21:26):
they may not be as active forwhatever reason. Sometimes they,
they may not be super wellorganized. These are led by volunteers
as well, and volunteers can bevery well organized, but they also
have lives, of course, getinvolved. This is not, this issue
is not going to fix itself. Wehave to fix this ourselves. And I
know that's not an incrediblysatisfying answer, but that is the
(21:47):
reality. And then the otherthing is, you know, help me find
some younger people that wouldbe great to run for Congress, for
city council, for statelegislature that my organization
leaders, we deserve, cansupport to help bring some fresh
blood into the DemocraticParty. Because we need an intergenerational
coalition. And the reality isright now, we don't have that numerically
speaking, there is one Gen Zmember of Congress and he has remained
(22:08):
the only Gen Z member ofCongress since 2022. That's Congressman
Maxwell Frost, my formerorganizer for March for Our Lives,
that I worked alongside. Andwe need a hell of a lot more people
like him in Congress and inour state legislatures and in our
city councils. There arehundreds, there are maybe there are
thousands and thousands,thousands of seats that people can
run for that we need Democratsto run for that. Our party needs
(22:30):
to build the power in. Andmany of them were young. You know,
people have never run beforebecause they are very Republican.
And I think we need to contestevery single race that we can, even
if we know it's going to be anuphill battle.
Yeah. David, you know, onething I'd recommend I ran for Congress
here in western North Carolinaback in 2020. And I was fortunate
that we were able to show thatit was going to be a close race and
(22:51):
I got the DCCC to help out.But some of my Democratic colleagues
that were running in districtsthat, you know, they knew they, you
know, they weren't going towin. You know, they couldn't get
anybody at the DCCC to answerthe telephone. So, you know, the
party wants somebody to runfor every, every office. But there
seems like there ought to besome minimum level of support that
comes along with that ratherthan just throwing people out there
(23:14):
on their own and expectingthem to, you know, shoulder the entire
burden.
Yeah, I think part of thechallenge is that there also is such
limited resources, too, andso, so much limited staffing that
we have to be, especiallybecause of the gerrymandering that
has happened and theconservative bias that our state
governments have that, youknow, the Senate has to. In our government
(23:37):
in general, there's reallylimited resources to be able to,
to work together onprioritizing which races are worked
on. But I agree with you. Ithink there should be a lot more
support specifically, even ifit's not, you know, a crazy, like,
I, obviously, I don't, I thinkit's really important than the races
that are the most competitivethat we're really prioritizing our
(23:58):
resources there to get thosecandidates across the finish line,
obviously. But I do agree withyou that there's, there's probably
a higher base level of supportthat the party as a whole can provide
for a lot of these, theseraces that are uncontested, typically
to make sure that people knowthat we see them, we care about them
and that we're, we're herewith them and that they are valued
because even if they aren'table to win their race, if they're
(24:19):
able to organize theircommunity more and help turn people
out that vote up ballot forstatewide elections in places like
North Carolina or Georgia,that's still really important and
meaningful. Yeah, but Itotally agree with you.
Yeah, you mentionedgerrymandering. Certainly North Carolina
is a prime example of that.You know, we really are a purple
state. You know, we've thelast three elections, you know, the
(24:39):
state has voted for, for Trumpby a couple of points. But we've
also elected Democraticgovernors on the same ticket. So
we truly are a purple state.Yet our legislature, you know, in
the last Congress we had sevenRepublicans and seven Democrats,
which reflected the truenature of North Carolina. Then the
Republican legislaturegerrymandered it. And so now it's
(25:00):
10 and 4, you know, but forthat gerrymandering, Congress would
be just about even rather thanthe Republicans having a slight majority.
But, you know, one of thefolks that got gerrymandered out
was Wiley Nicholl. He was aDemocrat representing one of the
districts in the eastern partof North Carolina. But we had him
on recently because, you know,he just left Congress in the early
(25:20):
part of January and he saidone of the things he tried to push
that didn't seem to get a lotof traction was having like a shadow
government. So, for example,like if Pete headseth, the Secretary
of Defense makes someoutrageous comment, have someone
like Pete Buttigieg that couldrespond from the Democratic side.
(25:42):
Because it seems like one ofthe frustrations, you know, that
we hear is that theRepublicans are doing these outrageous
things and people are lookingfor a Democratic response to it.
So I thought his idea had somemerit to it to have designated, you
know, folks that had expertisein a particular area that when the
other side says somethingstupid, you know, we can call them
on it.
Yeah, I think it's a greatidea. I, look, I've, I've called
(26:04):
up different.
Members of Congress andsuggested this exact same idea because
I think it's brilliant.
Yeah, I think folks just wantto hear a sensible answer that the
Democrats, you know, do have acoherent plan and some of this outrageous,
you know, bullshit that theRepublicans are throwing out there
that there is a bettersolution. Hey, one of the things
I want to ask you about is,you know, immigrants make up about
(26:25):
10% of the elect and Biden,you know, won by 21, the immigrant
vote by 27%. But then Trumpwon it this time by about a point.
What do we do to stem that? Imean, just to me it seems illogical
if you're an immigrant thatyou're supporting someone who, you
know, it's made it clear fromday one he's going to deport folks
(26:46):
that don't look like him. Howdo we do a better job of connecting
with those immigrant communities?
I mean, I think one, it's,it's talking about the issues that
all communities that, thataffect all communities or at least
99% of communities, which is, which.
Is that they are sufferingright now.
With the cost of living andespecially poor, low income and,
you know, predominantlyimmigrant communities we know are
(27:07):
not necessarily as affluent asmany other, you know.
Second or third generation communities.
And when prices skyrocket andthey feel like the system is not
working for them, they'regoing to vote for somebody who they
believe is going to help blowup the system. Now, do I think that
Trump's trying to blow up thesystem for everyday people in the
right way? Absolutely not. Ithink he's trying to blow it up so
that he's able to deregulateindustry and able to consolidate
(27:31):
power around a corporateoligarchic 1% by cutting their taxes.
But I think this speaks to thenecessity of our party needing to
talk about the real need forreform within our government, not
endlessly defending ourinstitutions, but talking in a real
way about how, yes, they arenot perfect. Here's our plan to make
them better, and not justendlessly saying, like, oh, these
(27:53):
are, or implying that theseare perfect or that there isn't anything
that needs to be changed. Whenpeople are really furious at this
moment and they feel likeincreasingly the American dream is.
Is. Is only a dream and it'snot going to be possible. Possible
for them, no matter how hardthey work. I also think that, one,
we have to understand that theimmigrant community is not a monolith,
(28:14):
obviously. And while somerecent immigrants to this country
are understandably proimmigration, there are very, very
many that are actually not proimmigration that have. Where there
is a kind of mentality thatthey, once they've walked through
the door, they don't wantanybody else coming in after them.
And I think that's a broaderphilosophical conversation that has
to be had in our country aboutwho we are and what our identity
(28:35):
is. But I also think it speaksto our broken immigration system
right now and how many people.Nobody likes to feel like they're
getting cut in line at all.Right. And we have to fix our immigration
system so that it is more fairso that people can come here legally
and don't have to do so. Ily Right.
Yeah, that's, you know, that'sone of the areas where I think we.
(28:56):
We really missed anopportunity. You know, we had a bipartisan
bill that was set to be passedto try to, you know, the most comprehensive
immigration bill in ageneration, and Donald Trump killed
it just to use it as apolitical talking point. And it just
seems like we didn't do a verygood job of exploiting that. The
impediment to trying toaddress the immigrant problem was
(29:19):
Donald Trump.
Yeah. I mean, honestly,personally, I think the bigger issue
is that we didn't talk aboutenough of what we were doing to address
the crisis by addressing it atthe source in a lot of Central American
countries that people werecoming from because of violence,
because of governmentdestabilization and Other things.
And that, that I think issymbolic of a bigger problem that
the administration had, whichis that, you know, President Biden
(29:41):
was an incredible commander inchief and in regards to how much
he was able to do in domesticpolicy, especially around guns, unfortunately,
he was not a communicator inchief. And in politics, if you were
able to get a lot of shitdone, but people do not know that
that was because of what youdid. It doesn't matter, because appearance
is reality. Yeah. We reallyfailed to talk about what we were
doing and the dramatic declinethat we had in the number of people
(30:05):
applying for asylum, thenumber of people attempting to illegally
immigrate to our countrybecause of the work the administration
did to address it in. At thesource rather than at the border.
And that's. And that's one ofthe areas where this, you know, eliminating
USAID is going to bite us inthe ass because it's. We were helping
people to make life better intheir. Where they were, and they
(30:27):
didn't feel the need to, youknow, try to flee to a safer environment.
And cutting that off is. Isnot in our interest.
Well, yeah, and it's actuallyvery much in. In China's interest.
I mean, there was a.Immediately after we cut off, I think
it was like a $500 milliongrant or something like that to to
Nepal for their electric gridand some infrastructure. I think
it was. Within 24 hours, Chinastepped up and said, hey, we'll fund
(30:49):
this and you just give us yourairport that we want to build. Right.
People are stepping into thatrole, and it's not for a good reason.
Yeah.
And it's. You know, I thinkpart of the difficulty here is, is
that I don't, I don't. I. Idon't think us trying to go. Trying
to think of how to say this. Ithink that there has to be an acknowledgment
that we are a country ofimmigrants. Right. And that we're
(31:11):
gonna. We want people to comehere illegally. We don't. We don't
want people having to comehere illegally in the first place.
Right.
But the reality is the people.The people are walking thousands
of miles to come to ourcountry, not because they necessarily
are just like, oh, you knowwhat I want to do is like, I just
want to come here. It's. It'sbecause they're terrified for their
lives most time.
Right.
Like, they're fearing fortheir lives and they're trying to
come. Nobody leaves their homecountry to go to a country that they
(31:33):
don't even.
Speak the language of a lot of.
The time on a whim, it'sbecause they don't have any other
choice. And our nation has along history of bringing in people
like that that have made. Madea. That. That has made us who we
are as a country, that hasmade us an incredibly powerful and
diverse country that finds ourstrength in that diversity. And as
that is happening throughoutour history, there are a lot of.
(31:55):
There's a lot of pushback andxenophobia that happens and other
things like that. And I thinkthat we just have what we are doing
to build a more fairimmigration system where people can
come here legally and offeringrefuge for people that truly have
nowhere else to go and areterrified for their lives. Because
I know when our country givespeople like that a chance, they're
(32:17):
incredibly. They're incrediblypowerful Americans and members of
our society that contribute somuch to our country.
Right. You know, in recentweeks, we've had, like, Adam Kinzinger
and Rick Wilson and DavidJolly on. And one of the things we've
talked about is, you know, itseems like, you know, the Republicans
are ruthless. You know,they're totally committed to winning
it, you know, at any cost. Youknow, like here in North Carolina,
(32:39):
we've seen them break the lawto do it, but it seems like, you
know, they're ruthless. And onthe other side, Democrats want to
be polite and follow therules, and, you know, if we don't
win, you know, your policypositions don't matter because you
don't have the ability toimplement them. So it seems like,
you know, kind of a commonrefrain has been that Democrats have
to have more backbone and amore forceful response than we've
(33:00):
had in the past. I mean, theanalogy I've used, like, when I was
running is, you know, if theRepublicans come to the. To a knife
fight with the machete and weshow up with a quinoa salad, how
can we. We got to do a betterjob of being more aggressive and
having a stronger message andfighting harder. So do you see us
doing that.
One way or another? Yeah.Either. Either things stay the same,
(33:20):
and there's a dramatic changein our leadership throughout the
party at every level, or ourleaders get their act together, and
we start fighting a hell of alot harder. I think part of what
we have to do, though, is thatwe got to bring in a new generation
of young people that are firedup and ready to take on this challenge
and take on Donald Trump. Andthat's exactly why I do this work
with leaders we deserve tohelp elect Young Democrats to state
(33:43):
legislatures in Congress allaround the country who are fighters
that are not going to be justwhen our democracy is under attack,
not just be like, well, youknow, this is the parliamentary procedure.
These are these, you know, allthis stuff, all these, all this academic,
you know, this whole academicapproach when we're in a fight for
our lives here as a country, afight for our democracy. And when
I, when I think about this,when you ask people in a focus group
(34:05):
if the Democratic Party was ananimal, you know what the most common
answer is?
No turtle.
You know, for Republicans,it's a lion or a shark.
Yeah, that's.
And regardless of whether ornot you agree with Republicans, the,
there is an appeal of havingsomebody who fights like hell for
you. And right now people justdo not feel like we fight like hell
for them.
Yep.
And we've got to change that.That's part of why I stepped up in
(34:28):
this role is because I'm, I'mused to fighting like hell for gun
control and I'm going tocontinue doing that, but I'm going
to fight like hell for all theother issues that drive gun violence
that the Democratic Partyplatform is built on addressing.
Right. Poverty, inequality andlack of opportunity more than anything
for so many.
So David, you, you talked,you've alluded to a couple leaders
(34:50):
across the country for, forour listeners who are looking for
somebody to back, somebody tofollow and support can. And again,
this is not the DNC endorsinganybody or anything, but from your
perspective, who are a coupleof the superstars that we ought to
keep an eye on?
I think Congressman MaxwellFrost for sure, he needs our support
as the only Gen Z member ofCongress and somebody who doesn't
(35:12):
come from a super wealthyfamily or anything like that. And
then I also think that it'shonestly Susan Crawford like we got
to win that race. JeffJackson's great too, obviously. But
if anybody is going to donateto something other than the dnc,
obviously I would stronglyurge you to consider making a donation
to Susan Crawford's race.
True, that's true. That's anextremely important race. So folks,
(35:34):
do us a favor and, and findher on the Internet and make a donation
today and help her with thatcampaign. So David, what, what gets
you up in the morning andwhat, what motivates you to, to help
building this party andhelping elect Democrats?
I think it's the fact that wehave delivered, even though we've
been terrible at advertising,what we've done, we've done a lot
(35:56):
of really good work evenThough it's not perfect by any means.
And just take guns, forexample. We, under Biden's presidency,
we passed the first federalgun law in 30 years. And we also
created the Office of GunViolence Prevention at the White
House. That office was taskedwith enforcing our gun laws, in coordinating
the federal government'sresponse to gun violence. And it
(36:17):
was tasked with overseeing theallocation of billions of dollars
into programs aimed atcombating gun violence and funding
mental health resources in ourschool. And because of that, they
were able to hire thousandsand thousands of school guidance
counselors and mental healthcounselors because of the law that
we passed after Uvalde. Andthey were able to expand background
checks for people under theage of 21 attempting to buy a gun
(36:39):
like the AR15 to the pointthat over 1200 high risk individuals
have been prevented frombuying weapons like the AR15 that
previously would not.
And as a result of all these.
Efforts, in the past twoyears, from 2023 to 2024, we saw
about a 25% or so reduction ingun violence and gun homicides around
the country.
That is nowhere near enough.
But those two years mark thelargest one year reductions in gun
(37:03):
homicides in American history.That is remarkable.
Part of the challenge that we have.
Though, as Democrats is a lotof the policies that we're fighting
for, we're not going to getrewarded for because you're not going
to hear about the shootingthat doesn't happen. You're not going
to hear about the person thatdoesn't die in a hurricane that doesn't
happen because of theInflation Reduction act and how much
(37:24):
work that did to reduce theeffects of climate change and subsidize,
you know, renewables, forexample. But ultimately, I know that
we're, we are improvingpeople's lives. So many of the things
that people are most worriedabout being under attack are the
product of incredibleDemocratic achievements. Right from
Social Security to Medicaidand Medicare. Our party, time and
time throughout our historyhas delivered to improve the social
(37:46):
safety net of the Americanpeople and saved and improved millions
of lives. Tens of millions oflives. Hundreds, frankly, hundreds
of millions of lives becauseof that work. And I know that we
have so much potential if wecan just change our priorities slightly
to help focus on building morehousing, building more transit, and
addressing a lot of the issuesthat our friends in our rural communities
(38:07):
are also facing, to stand upfor the 99% and not, and not let
Trump continue to get awaywith his tax cuts for billionaires,
with his deregulation for allthese corrupt industries. And other
things like that. We just haveto regain the trust of the American
people by going back to ourvalues and showing how we're delivering
on the issues that matter to them.
(38:28):
I think you're, I think you'reright. I think it's kind of back
to basics for the DemocraticParty, in my opinion. And, you know,
we're just going to have toride out Trump for a while and beat
him up when we can. But, so,so who else is involved? Tell, tell
us, tell our listeners aboutthe rest of the executive team at
the dnc, our new chair and theother vice chairs, if you don't mind.
(38:48):
Yeah, I mean, we have a greatexecutive team at the dnc. They're
all on our website, to beclear. But one of the people that
I serve with is MalcolmKenyatta. He's a state rep from Pennsylvania.
And then, sorry, there'sMalcolm Kenyatta, he's a state rep
from Pennsylvania. He's myfellow vice chair. There's Artie
Blanco, who's a major, likelabor leader from Nevada. And then
(39:08):
there is our chair of Civicengagement and voter participation,
who I believe is from NorthCarolina. Her name's Reina and she's
helping combat a lot of votersuppression stuff. She's an incredible,
talented advocate. And then wealso have our chair, our ASDC chair,
which is the association ofState Democratic Party Chairs. And
that's Jane Kleeb fromNebraska. She's awesome. And there's
(39:32):
a few other people as well.But I, yeah, that. That's who our
core team is. And Ken Martin,obviously is the former head of the
Minnesota Democratic Party.And what makes me excited about that
is Minnesota, despite having avery slim margin, was able to do
a lot very successfully toadvance and pass a progressive agenda
despite having a super slimmajority in the state legislature.
(39:52):
And he has a lot of experienceand he's a workhorse, too. He just
kind of just puts his headdown and does the work.
David, one of the things Ineglected to mention when I introduced
you is that you were. You madethe Time magazine Hundred Most Influential
People list back in 2018,graduate from Harvard at 24. You're
the DNC vice chair. What's thefuture hold for David Hogg? What
(40:14):
are you looking at down the road?
Maybe going to law schooleventually, but I can't afford that
right now, contrary to theconspiracy theories. But you know,
what I'm really lookingforward to is building the strongest
Democratic Party that I can.When I was younger, I originally
said that I wanted to run forCongress when I was 25. And then
I realized I would be a lotmore helpful to the gun safety movement
(40:37):
and the, the Democratic Partyas well if I work to elect more incredibly
talented people where insteadof me just being one vote, even if
I had the honor of beingelected, I could help elect 30 or
40, maybe the cycle, even 50incredible young people around the
country. And that's why Istarted Leaders We Deserve, which
is our. The PAC and super PACthat I run that helps elect young
(40:59):
Democrats to statelegislatures in Congress. Our model
is very similar to Emily'sList, just for young progressive
Democrats running for statelegislature, Congress and probably
city council this cycle aswell. We're potentially going to
do a pilot program on that.
And what I describe us as is.
Kind of like top gun for youngpeople running for state legislature
in Congress where we find, youknow, the best of the best of the
best of our generation and doeverything we can to get them elected.
(41:21):
And I co founded thisorganization with Kevin Lata, who
was Maxwell Frost's campaignmanager and has tons of campaign
experience. And last cycle weelected the youngest person to four
different chambers around thecountry. And we spent $100,000 supporting
Dante Pittman, the candidatein North Carolina who ended up breaking
the super majority there as well.
Well, listen, I know, youknow, the work you've done on, on
(41:43):
gun safety. I mean, I know formyself personally I get a couple
of death threats and a lot ofhateful backlash on, on social media.
And I'm sure what I get palesin comparison to what you get.
Welcome to the club.
I guess. How do you deal withthat? I mean, how does that. I'm
sure you get barraged a lotmore than I do and I know you've
(42:03):
been swatted and all the otherstuff. How do you, how do you keep
pressing?
Um, honestly, it's just likeit gets. It becomes so much that
you just kind of become numbto it and also just learn how to
laugh at it more than anythingand have a good group of support
and, and friends around youthat, you know, we'll call you in
if, if there, if there issomething going wrong or they need
(42:24):
to check in with you. Butultimately it's just making fun of
them more than anything. Andalso knowing that thankfully I'm
going to outlive a lot ofthose people who, who are the most
against me, like the MarjorieTaylor Greene's of the world.
So, yeah, one of my, one of myfavorites I get on social media is
nobody gives a what you think,which, the fact that you responded
(42:44):
exactly.
Yeah, my favorite is Wheeler.Go yourself. And I'm like, my. Okay,
well, how do you do that? AndI might if you'd explain it to me.
Anyway, David, I don't know ifyou drink alcohol or not, but we.
We talk a lot about bourbonhere because of Mose. And with bourbon,
(43:05):
are you a bourbon guy or not?
Really? I. I try to. I try tokeep a sober mind working in politics.
You're a very smart man.
You will.
You will be successful.
I. I will say, sometimes doingthis work, I. I'm like, you know
what? I understand why so manypoliticians and other people end
up becoming alcoholics. It iswell for.
(43:28):
Fortunately, Mo's not analcoholic. And I know you didn't
mean it that way.
No, no, no, no, no. I don'tmean it that way at all. I' moderation.
It's just we're going througha lot right now.
Yeah, yeah. Well, I. Listen,I. I think the fact that you're on
the DNC is Shake things up.Don't be timid. Please keep up the.
Oh, I won't keep up this. Thisattitude of, if it ain't working,
(43:51):
fix it. And also just keepbanging away on getting younger people
there. I mean this. You know,I think Chuck Schumer's helped your
effort a lot in this lastweek. And listen, I've been a fan
of his. I don't begrudge him,but God damn it, why do these people
stick around so long? Youknow, even Dick Durbin, who I'm a
big supporter of because Ilived in Chicago and a big fan of
(44:13):
his, and he does a lot ofgreat stuff. Why don't they give
somebody else a chance once ina while? I just. That is a rhetorical
question that vice chair ofthe DNC will never answer. But we
got to get younger people into some of these safe seats as well,
and I trust that you'll keeppushing the party in the. That direction.
(44:34):
All right, well.
That's a good place for us tostop today. That's a wrap for this
episode of MUCK YOU!, ,wherewecut through the crap and call it
like it is. If you like whatyou heard, please subscribe, share,
and spread the word. We'rehere to hold the powerful accountable.
Remind you that democracyisn't a damn spectator sport. So
stay informed, stay engaged,and most importantly, keep your eye
(44:56):
on the bigger picture. Mo. AndI'll catch you next time with more
facts backspire and a wholelot less. Until then, on behalf of
Mo, David, and myself, muck you.
This has been MUCK YOU!, cohosted by colonel Moe Davis in Asheville,
North Carolina and DavidWheeler in Spruce Pine, North Carolina.
Thanks to our guest today,David Hogg, a Vice Chair of the Democratic
(45:19):
National Committee and founderof Leaders We Deserve Pack and co
founder of March for OurLives. MUCK YOU! i produced by American
Muckrakers. Copyright 2025.You can learn more and donate@americanmuckrakers.com
Follow us on X and Blue skyunder American Muck. Come back soon
for a new episode.
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