June 13, 2025 • 49 mins
Colonel Moe Davis and co-host David Wheeler welcome Mayor Esther Manheimer to the Muck You podcast, diving deep into the recovery efforts in Asheville post-Hurricane Helene. Right outta the gate, they tackle the pressing issues facing the city and how the local government is navigating the aftermath of such a devastating storm. Esther shares her journey from a law career to becoming the mayor, emphasizing the challenges and rewards of leading a community through turbulent times. With a mix of humor and heartfelt stories, the trio explores the resilience of Asheville's residents, the collective spirit of recovery, and the importance of community support in the face of adversity. Tune in for a refreshing take on local governance and the bright future they envision for Asheville!
Takeaways:
- Colonel Moe Davis and Mayor Esther Manheimer dive deep into Asheville's recovery post-Hurricane Helene, highlighting community resilience and the importance of collaboration among local leaders.
- The podcast discusses the intricate web of funding sources available for infrastructure recovery, emphasizing the role of FEMA and other organizations in rebuilding Asheville.
- Esther shares her journey from Denmark to becoming Asheville's mayor, showcasing her passion for local governance and community service through her law background and public administration degree.
- Listeners learn about the challenges of balancing the mayoral duties with personal life, as Esther juggles her law practice, family, and the demands of city leadership after a disaster.
- The conversation touches on the evolving nature of Asheville's economy, stressing the need for diversification beyond tourism to create sustainable job opportunities for future generations.
- Esther emphasizes the importance of community spirit, recounting heartwarming stories of neighbors coming together during tough times, showcasing the genuine connection among residents in Asheville.
Companies mentioned in this episode:
- American Muckrakers
- UNC School of Law
- Asheville
- FEMA
- Home Depot
- Walmart
- Franklin Graham
- Samaritan's Purse
- World Central Kitchen
- Josh Stein
- Grow NC
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:06):
Welcome to the Muck youpodcast, produced by American Muckrakers.
Let's roll up our sleeves anddive into the mess. Uncover the truth.
I'm your co host, DavidWheeler and here to stir the pot,
bring the energy and keepthings real. Now let me hand it off
to my co host, the one andonly Colonel Moe Davis. Straight
shooting, no nonsense vetwho's been in the trenches and knows
(00:28):
how to cut through the noisewith razor sharp wit and is also
running to be the nextcongressman from NC11. Let's get
mucking, Moe.
All right, David, thank you.It's a a beautiful day here in western
North Carolina. The sun's out,there's no better place to be and
no better guest to talk aboutthe local area than our own Mayor
(00:49):
Esther Manheimer, who'sjoining us. She is a graduate of
the UNC School of Law. She's apartner law firm here in Nashville
where she specializes incommercial lit litigation and land
use. She was elected to theAsheville city council in 2009 and
served in that role from 2009to 2013 and has been the mayor of
(01:15):
Asheville since December of2013 into the present. So, Mayor
Manheimer, thank you so muchfor taking time to join us today.
Oh, it's my pleasure. Thankyou for having me.
Oh, sure. All right, well,let's start with how did a nice girl
from Denmark get into thedirty business of being mayor of
Asheville?
(01:35):
You've been reading my Wikipage, I take it? Yeah. Yes, I have.
Fun. Fact, I was born inDenmark, but. But I moved to the
United States when I wasthree, so. And of course I didn't
move to Asheville till I was17, so I can't claim I was a native
by any stretch of theimagination. I, you know, I. So one
(02:00):
of the things you were readingabout my bio is that I have a law
degree, but I also have amaster's in public administration
from Chapel Hill. And Ireally, really, really have for a
long, long time enjoyed theissues that local governments face
and have been very interestedin it. And it wasn't until my late
30s that I figured out how toblend that interest and ran for office
(02:25):
for the first time in 2009 forcity council here in Asheville.
Yeah. So you've had 2009 tothe present a constant presence in,
in city government. And whendid you realize you're a glutton
for punishment? It seems likebeing the mayor is a thankless job
where, you know, no matterwhat you do, you know, you're pissing
(02:45):
off half the people andnobody's ever fully happy. So what
keeps you motivated to do this?
Well, you know, I started toworry when I've heard the first bless
your heart, which of course issouthern for I wouldn't want that
job. So I think two things.It's very rewarding to serve as mayor
(03:13):
of Asheville. We haveobviously a really active community,
a lot of interest in what'sgoing on at the city. So I wouldn't
have it any other way. I dothink being a mayor has changed for
anyone who wants to be a mayorin the United States or probably
anywhere. And so it'sdefinitely a challenge. The landscape
(03:34):
has changed. You got to changewith it and sort of figure out what's
this new normal and how can Ibe effective today in 2025, what
do I have to contribute to, tothis community and how can I best
serve as mayor of Asheville?So, you know, it's not, it's not
for the faint of heart, Iwould say that. But it is highly
(03:55):
rewarding in my experience.
You know, there's that sayingthat we live in interest, interesting
times. And you've certainlybeen at the helm in some interesting
times. We've been throughCovid, we've been through Hurricane
Helene. I think most folksthat listen to the podcast know that,
you know, Asheville is atourism based economy and both of
(04:15):
those events, you know, had abig impact on our local area. So,
you know, it seemed like wekind of recovered from the COVID
crisis and then HurricaneHelene hit. So where are we now in
Asheville on the current roadto recovery?
Well, you know, I would say alot of things have been restored.
(04:39):
I mean, of course, thehurricane was devastating, knocking
out power and water andcommunications initially. And so
just getting those sort ofemergency services back up and running
took as, you know, a fewweeks. And then came sort of the
next level of trying to buildback a lot of the roads and bridges
(05:00):
just, you know, so peoplecould get around and get out of some
of the traffic jams created bythose sorts of issues. A lot of people
dealing with their ownpersonal situations, whether their
home or business was destroyedor impacted. So I think a lot of
people, you know, it's funny,I talk to some people and they're
like, talk about it like itwas in the past. But of course, recovery
(05:22):
is ongoing and there are partsof it that are going to take several
years just because of theinfrastructure rebuild to our park
system along the river andrestoring our water system and building
it back better. So From apublic infrastructure standpoint,
there are a lot of long rangeprojects. But the, the good news
(05:44):
is there's a lot of fundingthat's available to do all this work.
It's just a matter of gettingit all done. But we do want to make
sure people know that we'reopen for business. We have a lot
of businesses here that needto see more and more customers return,
whether they're retail,restaurant, hotel businesses that
rely on our tourism economy.So, you know, we are seeing, I'm
(06:08):
right now in downtownAsheville and we are seeing a lot
of business pick up. We'reseeing a lot of foot traffic here,
especially on weekend ends.But we need to see more of that happen
so we can continue to rebuildthis economy which is not yet back
to normal. And, and reallywhat normal looks like in the future
will probably be somethingdifferent, but hopefully, hopefully
(06:31):
better.
Yeah, I'm glad you mentionedthe pathway down by the river. I'm
a bike rider and I usually geton there as one of the safest places
to ride. And I think I'vegained 7 or 8 pounds since Helene
because I didn't change myeating habits. But I'm not getting
the exercise. So if you canmove that up to the top of the list.
(06:52):
Okay.
I'm one of those people. Ilive just outside the city limits,
so, you know, I bitch andcomplain about things in the city
even though I don't pay citytaxes. So I'm one of those folks.
I was reading, I think thecity estimates there's about a billion
dollars of infrastructurerepairs that need to be made. What's
the prognosis on funding? Youguys just passed a budget last night,
(07:17):
I think with 256 million. Soobviously the extent of the damage
is far greater than the city'scapacity to handle it. So how's it
looking about getting fundingto repair the infrastructure?
Well, the overall picture isgood. So the way this works is that
FEMA provides the funding torebuild infrastructure. Think about
(07:38):
it like a gigantic insuranceclaim. You, you have to go around
and document all your damage.We have finished with that part of
the process. And then you gotto get FEMA's approval to rebuild.
So if it's, if it's a park or,you know, a swimming pool or, or
whatever the piece ofinfrastructure is, you, you got to
get them to approve it. Andthen they pay 90% to rebuild that
(08:02):
infrastructure and the statepays the other 10%. But layered on
top of that, there are twoother pots of money that are available.
One is called hazardMitigation. This is federal funding
also that passes through thestate and the funding has already
been provide, provided in theDecember congressional aid package.
(08:24):
And this money can be used tosearch to if you will, build back
better. So if you'rerebuilding a park or whatever facility,
you can use this money to do,go beyond just rebuilding it back
the way it was before. Andthen in addition to that, our city
has been awarded $225 millionin CDBG Dr. Or community development
(08:47):
Block grant disaster relieffunds. And those can also be used
throughout the community onthings that weren't necessarily destroyed
by the disaster but are neededto create greater resiliency in our
community going forward. Canalso be used to help the business
community recover and toprovide for much needed housing.
(09:10):
So there's, there's a lot ofdifferent funding resources. It's
a really complex web. We havehad to, as most cities our size,
hire specialists whounderstand how to navigate all the
federal regulations that kickin when you're in a disaster of this
size. So, so that work ishappening. We talked a lot about
(09:32):
it yesterday at the citycouncil. We reviewed a lot of the
projects and kind of got agood overall handle on how this recovery
work will, will work. And, andagain, I mean, some of these things
are one month, two months, ayear, five years. It's, it's depends
on what the thing is that,that they're working on. But it's
(09:53):
some of it short term, some ofit's long term.
Right. So prior to Helene,were you an expert on turbidity?
No. Were you?
Yeah. That's one thing, onething Helene did. I think the educational
level on the term turbidity,it was kind of like listening for
the, you know, they call outthe lottery numbers because every
(10:14):
day you're waiting to hearwhat's the turbidity level?
Yeah.
So I think a lot of folks inthis region now know a lot more about
turbidity than they ever, everthought they needed to. Listen, you
mentioned fema. And at leastmy perception, you know, FEMA got
a lot of grief and a lot of,you know, a lot of things that were
said about FEMA were, youknow, just factually inaccurate.
(10:36):
At least my perception wasn't,from what I've seen is we're definitely
better off with FEMA thanwithout them. And my view was they
did a pretty decent job andare doing a pretty decent job of
help helping us get back onour feet. Has that been true across
the city?
Yeah, I mean, I, I'm not surewhere we'd be without fema. I mean,
(10:57):
they're providing the, thebulk of the funding to be able to
do all this work. They oversawthe debris removal. It's, you know,
the way FEMA works is they'rekind of more of like a gigantic delegator.
And so they tasked the debrisremoval to the Army Corps of Engineers,
who then hired, you know,every contractor and their mother
(11:18):
to come in here and, andremove all this debris. So that's
just an example. I would say,you know, we, we, you know, I know
there's a lot of talk aboutgetting rid of fema, but we would
be devastated if tomorrow thepresident got rid of FEMA without
replacing it with pretty muchthe exact same thing. So, you know,
(11:40):
maybe I don't know what willsatisfy the political appetite. Maybe
it needs a new name orsomething. But. Well, you know, if
I were to criticize fema, whatI would say is that one of the challenges
of fema, not just fema, butthe federal government in general,
is having to apply these sortof broad, sweeping regulations to
(12:05):
specific situations. So one ofthe things I heard a lot from FEMA
folks was, you know, the kindsof devastation we've seen with landslides
to private roads and bridgesis fairly unprecedented and not the
norm in a coastal hurricaneevent, which is what they're used
to. So they basically had tocome up with a new program to deal
(12:27):
with the repair of privateroads and bridges because it just
wasn't covered underindividual assistance or IA, which
as you may know, is capped at42,500 per individual household.
So they had to kind of figurethat out. And, and I, you know, I'm
actually impressed with howquickly they did figure it out, considering
(12:49):
you're talking about turning abattleship here when it, when it
comes to a large federalentity. So the, the, so I guess the
shortcomings, I would say, arewhere the existing regulations didn't
fit exactly our stormsituation and the kind of damages
we saw in this storm event.You know, another example, we had
(13:13):
a bunch of businesses thatneeded water trucks. Whether they're
hotels, restaurants, ormedical practice. Whatever they were,
they needed private, privatelysupplied potable water for their
business. But that wasn'tanything that FEMA reimbursed for
and doesn't reimburse for. Butthat was unique to this storm event.
(13:33):
That's not the typical issue.We also saw a lot of businesses that
went dark after the stormbecause they had no water and no
other way to replace it yet.It wasn't a business interruption
claim under Their insurancepolicy. So there's just a lot of
things where we saw damageshappen from that cascaded out of
(13:56):
this storm event that therewasn't a program, a ready, set go
that applied to thissituation. So, you know, that, that,
that's. I think a lot oflessons have been learned from this,
and maybe they'll make somechanges in the future, but those
are some of the shortcomings I noticed.
(14:16):
Well, madam Mayor, you know,I'm up here in Spruce Pine in Mitchell
county, rural, which iscertainly not politically Asheville
or topography is a little moremountainous here. One of the things
that amazed me was I liveacross from a golf course, which
(14:37):
is across from a shoppingcenter. You know, within 24 hours
of the wind subsiding, therewas a parking lot full of 200 trucks
with linemen and line womenready to roll. And I think that's
something that's. That I'mjust heartened by. I was amazed that
(15:01):
we got power back here withinabout 10 days. And I was just heartened
to see that these folks wereall here ready to help enroll in
here in this small littlecommunity. And they must have had,
you know, two or 300 pieces ofequipment that came. That came with
them. And so that was a storythat I hadn't. You know, I grew up
(15:23):
in Iowa, and I hadn'texperienced a storm like this. What's
your favorite story thatheartened you as the mayor of a city
out here in western North Carolina?
Well, well, first of all, Iwould say, you know, it was one thing
to be in Asheville during thestorm. I can't even imagine what
(15:44):
it was like to be in Mitchellor Yancey or Ash. Watauga county
in some of these areas. I'vetraveled up there quite a bit since
the storm. Madison county,and, you know, just these smaller
communities with the kind ofdevastation they were dealing with,
just truly, truly amazing. Youknow, we saw people, I think, at
(16:05):
their best. I will say, afterthis storm, it was so heartening
to see so many people help oneanother. I mean, it was truly astonishing.
Every day. In some ways, Ithought, well, of course, this is
how any community wouldrespond to this kind of catastrophe,
and they would make such greatsacrifices for one another. But I
am told this is not. Not thenorm necessarily. One thing that
(16:30):
I. A story I tell that I justabsolutely loved. You know, I. I
was the mayor. I am the mayor,and I was jumping into action as
the mayor right after thestorm. And, you know, of course,
ended up with the president onMarine one five days after the storm.
But I'm also, you know, a momand a wife and a daughter. And I've
got, you know, my dad and mystepmom and my mom and my in laws
(16:53):
and my sister. I got a lot ofpeople here and my children. And
so I was over in Woodfin,where my sister lives, a couple days
after the storm because sheand I were kind of trying to manage
this grandparent situation.And I was driving down her block
and she said that all herneighbors on her block had decided
(17:15):
that every day they were goingto meet in one person's yard at 5
o' clock every day. And theyhad picked somebody's yard and they
had put up this big tent andthey had put a big ring of chairs.
And I went past right as theywere having their first five o' clock
session. And they were allwearing name tags, you know, the
(17:37):
kind you take a marker andmake yourself a name tag. And I just
thought it was the sweetestthing in the world. And sort of funny,
you know, this day and agewith phones and everything, how it
took this event where peopleliterally had no other way to communicate
with each other except to sitaround in a circle in somebody's
yard and finally get to knowtheir neighbors and learn all their
(17:59):
names. And I just thought itwas a. A very sweet moment.
Yeah. And I think that thathappened throughout the region. I
know Moe met a lot of hisneighbors he hadn't met before. And
same here up in my smallcommunity of Spruce Pine, I got to
know all my neighbors finally.And so it was. It was really heartening
(18:21):
to see that as well. So howhas, you know, we talked a little
bit about fema. It wasn't justfema. There's a lot of other organizations
that probably deserve somethanks as well. In addition to, you
know, the government, who elsehave been big contributors into getting
(18:44):
Asheville back into somesemblance of. Of order?
You know, I mean, this is sointeresting too. You know, I feel
like I've now got a PhD innatural disaster and I was just literally
drinking it all in from themoment it happened just to see how
(19:05):
the response works. Sofascinating you have in North Carolina,
the way it's structured, ofcourse, is the emergency response
happens on a county level. Sothe county has an emergency operations
center. In our case, we had acity emergency operations center
that we actually just openedthis last year on Broadway. And we
(19:27):
had redone all of ouremergency operation procedures and
we had trained on them. So wewere all ready to go. And there's
a whole system of emergencyoperations that works on where the
counties interact with thestate. So the state is involved in
providing services in theevent of emergency through their
(19:48):
office of emergency managementand director Ray, which is so on
the state level. And I hadbeen in communications with the governor
about that. So, so you've gotthat whole piece of it and then of
course you have the federalresponse. But in addition to that,
it is amazing to me how manynon profit faith based organizations
(20:09):
are literally ready to roll inthe event of an emergency. One of
my law partners here at my lawfirm, for example is higher up with
the Mormon Church in westernNorth Carolina and the Mormon Church
out of Utah coordinated aresponse where they brought in 1500
volunteers to help go muck outpeople's houses and clean people,
(20:34):
clean people's properties up.And the reason I interacted with
them is because they needed meto put them in contact with the superintendent
of Buckland county schools sothey could find a baseball field
where they could all camp forwhile they were, you know, while
they were here. I mean, that'sjust an example of one organization
that was ready to roll, butthere are so many others. You probably
(20:56):
encountered them, they havetractor trailers packed and ready
to go in the event ofemergence of an emergency like this.
And they just roll into thecommunity and set up. I mean I had
Walmart called me up on mycell phone and said, you know, they
had several semi tractortrailers ready to go. Where did we
(21:18):
want them? You know, so wewere, you know, it was just phenomenal
to see. I was talking withHome Depot recently. They, they have
a store in East Asheville andthey, they didn't close, they had
staff sleeping in the store.So I mean, you know, there are lots
and lots of folks that didthings on a small scale and then
(21:39):
you had these huge operations.And of course locally we saw some
unprecedented things happen.Of course, Drew Reisinger at the
Register of Deeds organizedthe Flush brigade which went out
and helped people who are not,you know, they were homebound and
not able to get water to flushtheir toilets and just real basic
(22:00):
necessities like that. Butthey figured out how to get to those
folks and help them reach out.So it was, you know, we were, we
were just reviewing this andI, because, you know, we need, we're
doing an after action andwe're going to figure out, you know,
what went well, what didn't gowell, what kinds of planning do we
need to account for for thefuture? And it's actually kind of
(22:23):
difficult to draft a fullscale emergency operation plan because
there are so many of theseoutside actors that really do influence
a full storm response that youcan't really write into your emergency
operation procedures becausethey may or may not be there the
next time. They're going to bethere in some capacity, but you can't
(22:44):
really be sure. And you needto design your emergency operation
procedures, not counting onthem. But in fact, that's really
a big part of it.
One thing I was reallyimpressed with was after the storm
hit, it was neighbors helpingneighbors. There's none of this,
are you a Democrat, are you aRepublican? Or, you know, where do
(23:06):
you go to church? Or any ofthat. It was everybody pitching in
and, and helping. And you hadgroups like, you know, Franklin Graham
and Samaritan's Purse, andthen you had Jose Andres and World
Central Kitchen, and Yep, youknow, the two of them are like opposite
ends of the ideologicalspectrum. But both of their organizations
were here in a flash andstayed. And they never ask whether
(23:30):
you supported them or not. Itwas strictly, what can we do to help?
Yeah, I think that'sabsolutely right. I mean, certainly
now I will say, of course, weexperienced a natural disaster right
before an election in asupposed swing state. So there was
lots of room for partisanshipon a federal level. I mean, I, I,
(23:57):
I am certain that's one of thereasons why I spent most of my time
hosting every single visitorunder the sun coming to Asheville.
You know, of course, PresidentBiden and I flew over Asheville.
I met the vice president atthe Charlotte airport. But we also
had Speaker Mike Johnson hereand Steve Scalise, and, you know,
(24:20):
we had lots of differentcongressional visitors. And then
we had all the administration,SBA secretary, the FEMA administrator,
the acting HUD secretary. Imean, just the Pete Buttigieg. The
list goes on. We had a lot ofattention focused on western North
Carolina, not only because ofthe scale of this disaster, but I'm
(24:41):
sure also because we were sortof in the political crosshairs right
at that moment. And I justtried to, and continue to try to
deliver a message in anonpartisan manner just to continue
to get attention and focus onus to help us fully recover. We're
hopeful. We're hearing at theend of the summer, early fall, Tillis
(25:02):
may be able to help leveragein another relief package and maybe
time to go up to Congressagain. We just need to continue to
keep the focus on the recoveryof all of western North Carolina
and how folks can help us. Ithink having all these different
groups all across thepolitical spectrum here and providing
(25:26):
services and helping us outhas been a good thing for us in our
recovery.
Yeah, yeah, it really helped,too. I thought, you know, Good Morning
America came and I mean, thatyou couldn't afford to buy that kind
of advertising, Right. Thatthat whole show is just a big ad
for Asheville in western NorthCarolina. Then we had Josh Stein
(25:46):
on Colbert, I think, last week.
Yeah, that was very cool. JoshStein has been a superhero. I mean,
just really focusing hisentire administration on our recovery
and creating the Western NorthCarolina Recovery Committee that
I co chair with Senator. StateSenator Kevin Corbyn and creating
(26:07):
Grow nc, the entity that headsup the recovery on a state level.
It's just, it's. He's justbeen such an incredible advocate
and hero for western NorthCarolina. It's. It's been pretty
amazing.
Yeah, I don't, I'm not awareof any North Carolina governor that
spent as much time out here. Alot of folks in western North Carolina
(26:27):
used to feel like they wereforgotten, but certainly Governor
Stein has given us his fulltime and attention out here. And
yeah, I don't think we couldask him to do more. But, but, you
know, it's still. I wasdowntown over the week.
Yeah.
When you can go downtownAsheville on a Saturday night and
find a parking place and gointo a restaurant without a reservation
(26:48):
or. Which is kind of nice,I've got to admit that that's not
normal. And I know a lot offolks are. Are suffering. I think
last I saw, Buncombe county isranked number two out of the hundred
counties and in unemployment.Any prognosis on. And again, you
mentioned earlier, I thinkyou're exactly right that people
talk about getting back tonormal. I think it's going to be
(27:11):
a new normal. It's not goingto be the normal that existed before
Helene. But any prognosis onwhen we're going to. When we're going
to get there?
Well, you know, the state. Ithink the state has an estimate of
time that they, that they'reusing as a benchmark. But I, I was
just talking to the TourismDevelopment Authority director in
(27:35):
terms of the kinds of numbersthey're seeing. And it is right now,
it's very much a new normal.For example, she was saying hotels
outside of Asheville are upyear over year, and hotels in Asheville
are somewhat down. The otherissue is that they aren't seeing
(27:57):
as many tourist visitors.They're housing a lot of business
visitors. And that's because,you know, FEMA and other entities
have a lot of employees in thearea. That are staying in hotels.
They're paying the governmentrate, which isn't as good. So. So
it's not. It is definitely notback to where it was. We have retailers
(28:18):
and restaurants. Some saythey're up, some say they're down.
We have. You know, it's juststill a pretty mixed bag. And I think
we have a challenge inmessaging that we're open for business
and that all the images, youknow, every time I'm on national
news still, you know, I'mbeing interviewed and there's a split
(28:39):
screen, and next to me isimages of flooding rivers and landslides
and things like that. And Ithink for people who see that, they
think, oh, my gosh, you know,this isn't a place we better go visit.
It's a mess. But. But thetruth is that those. A lot of that
has been cleaned up, and weare open for business, and people
can come and visit. But tryingto get that message out is a little
(29:01):
bit of a challenge. The statehas provided marketing funds to the
state tourism authority to beable to market North Carolina, and
that is happening. Sohopefully we'll see some returns
on that. It's sort of ironic,given that tourism can be a controversial
(29:22):
topic in Asheville. But. But Ithink, you know, there's 100 agreement
that people want to see oureconomy recover and get stronger.
Yeah, I was encouraged thisweekend. I went down to River Arts
and parked and rode my bike,But a couple pulled in next to me.
It was a husband, wife, and ateenage son, and they were from Knoxville.
(29:42):
And they said, you know, theyhad heard that, you know, Asheville
was, you know, stillstruggling to get back on its feet,
and so they were looking forsomething to do for the weekend.
So they came over to spend theweekend in Asheville and looking
at the tags on the cars, youknow, it's Tennessee, Texas, Virginia,
South Carolina. You know, itdoes seem like things are beginning
(30:03):
to pick up, but we still gotquite a ways to go before we're back
to. To full capacity.
Yeah.
Let me ask you. You guyspassed a budget last night. 256.4
million. Give me a little bitof a tax increase. I was really pleased,
you know, back in. When I ranfor Office Back in 2020, one of the
(30:26):
groups that I stood with werethe firefighters. You know, back
then, they were asking toincrease their. Their minimum wage.
But I was reading about thisnew plan, the force shift. Could
you tell the listeners alittle bit about that? And. And.
And. And kudos to you guys fordoing this. I think it's a positive
step in the right direction.
(30:48):
Yeah. So the firefighters cameto us with an ask to add. Right now
the firefighters operate onthat three shift schedule and they
came to us and asked us to adda fourth shift so that they can try
to get to a number of hours ina work week that mirror more of a
(31:13):
traditional number of hoursthat employees work in a work week.
And you know, it sounds sortof simple, but it's, it's not from
a funding standpoint becauseit means having to add another over,
over a period of time. Wecan't do it all in one year, but
over a period of time, adding86 new positions, I believe, is the
(31:36):
number to be able to fill outthat fourth shift. You know, we're
a city of about 1300employees, so that's a lot of additional
employees. So. So we have aplan to do that over a period of
five years. And, and that willhelp them get to a schedule that
(31:57):
provides, you know, justfrankly, a lot better work life balance
and a, and a more. And a wagethat is more reflective of a living
wage relative to the number ofhours they, they are on the clock.
There is apparently, maybeWaynesville has made. Made moves
(32:18):
to move in this direction andGreenville, South Carolina. But we
are told this is kind of thething that we're going to see more
and more fire departments do.So, so we're. So we're doing that
now. We don't have vacanciesreally in the fire department. The
last I checked, we had one. Soit's, you know, people want to be
(32:41):
firefighters, so that's good,that's good news. They have a tough
job and they sure showed ushow tough it can be during this hurricane,
putting their lives at risk tosave people. And, you know, I think
this is something that is,it's expensive, it's difficult to
(33:01):
do. It's really just thechallenge for us. It's just kind
of managing it from afinancial standpoint. When I say
us, I mean the council, butit, but from a policy standpoint,
it makes a lot of sense to do it.
Yeah. You know, I grew up nottoo far from here, but I joined the
military in 83 and left and,you know, back in 83, you know, Asheville
(33:22):
was really depressing. Youknow, down downtown was boarded up.
You know, it just wasn't a funplace to be. So for me, coming back,
you know, moved back here in2019 and that, that reformation that
had taken place over thoseyears was just remarkable. And I
would imagine, you know,you've been in office of some sort
(33:43):
for the last 16 years. What doyou foresee, like, when you look
out at the future, what do youwant to. What's the Asheville that
you see, you know, 10, 20years down the road?
Well, good. So. Good question.So I. Yeah, I moved here in 1988,
and downtown was just startingto kind of get a little bit of a
(34:05):
spark. But I had moved fromthe Washington, D.C. area. So for
me, as a cynical teenager, Icouldn't believe it. You know, here
we were. And of course, likeyou said, it has changed so much.
And I think for the future, Ihope that we grow a balanced economy
(34:28):
that's not dependent on onearea or another, such as tourism.
I hope we provide opportunityfor younger people to move here and
to stay here and to find jobshere so they see a future here. I
have three sons myself betweenthe ages of 18 and 23, and I know
(34:49):
that the kinds of careersthey're looking at, it would be hard
to find something here thatwould allow them to stay. And I hope
to see a community thatcontinues to grow in diversity, is
open and welcoming to people,and that provides an incredible quality
of life for folks so that theyhave opportunities to enjoy and experience
(35:14):
the outdoors, which is, youknow, one of the main reasons why
people want to be here. And Ithink the city's job is to help support
that and continue to build outgreenways and bike lanes and parks
and amenities that help, youknow, people can enjoy music and
the arts and. And all thethings that help make life fun for.
(35:38):
For folks as long as they'rehere and. And if they choose to have
a family and. And have a joband live and enjoy this place. So
what does that look like? Youknow, for me, it does mean kind of
creating more dense, infillhousing, walkable community, a bikeable
(35:59):
community, and bringing morethings here that allow for people
to enjoy all the things I justtalked about. So, you know, my hopes
and dreams for what the citycan do in that is not only rebuild
and build back better all ofour recreational amenities, our parks,
(36:19):
but to grow spaces like aperforming. Performing arts center
and other things that I thinkcities are responsible for, to provide
the community for. Foropportunities to come together and
enjoy one another.
Yeah. Well, listen, you knowour, I guess, unofficial motto for
Asheville is keep Ashevilleweird. So what are you doing to keep
(36:41):
Asheville weird?
Well, I depend on the peopleof Asheville to help keep it weird,
and I feel like they're doinga good job. Don't you?
Yeah, it's It's a great place.I, you know, I'll be honest, I, I,
growing up around here, Ithought the whole world was like
this. And I took it forgranted that I joined the military
and saw the rest of the world.And I couldn't wait to get back here
(37:02):
because, you know, folks thathaven't been here, you need to come.
I mean, there is no morebeautiful place than Asheville, North
Carolina, and the surroundingarea and some of the quirkiest people
you'll ever meet, but some ofthe nicest people you'll ever meet.
And you know, again, to meit's, it's astounding. When I was
growing up, most of westernNorth Carolina were dry counties
(37:25):
and you know, Asheville to bethe craft beer capital of the world
would have just beenunimaginable, you know, 40 years
ago. So I'm really excited tosee what the future holds. I mean,
I, you know, it's going to be,there are going to be some rough
patches here and there, butI'm optimistic that, you know, they're
brighter days ahead for Asheville.
(37:46):
Yeah, you said it. That waspretty good.
Oh, well, thanks, David. Letme toss it back over to you.
Okay, cool. So, Madam Mayor,again, you know, the mayor's role
in Asheville is, I assume, aquote unquote, part time or secondary
(38:07):
role. How do you keep thislife balance between your law practice,
you know, you've got a bigfamily, a young family, and you know,
being the mayor of a city,that demands a lot from the mayor.
How do you, how do you balancethe two?
Exercise, sleep, hydration.
(38:33):
The normal.
Yeah, I mean, you know, I'mlucky to have a lot of help and support
and in my different roles,whether it's being mayor at city
hall or it's being a lawyer atmy law firm, which is across the
park from city hall. I'mlooking at city hall right now from
my law office or at home. Imean, we're sitting here having this
(38:56):
conversation. My mom's textingme and asking me what she can make
us for dinner tonight, so.
Terrific. I'll be right over.
What are we having?
All right. All right. But Imean, it is a little bit of a. It
is. I mean, there are times,there are times where I've thought,
oh my gosh, can I do this? CanI keep doing this? This is hard.
(39:19):
But now, I mean, now I'mthrough the hard part. My youngest
just graduated high school andhe's going off to college too, and
he was two years old when Ifirst ran for office. So, you know,
now it's finally getting alittle easier. But, but it is a lot.
And I, you know, mayor issupposed to be a part time job. I'll
say. You know what's funny? Imean, it's not funny, but after the
(39:41):
hurricane when we got all thefederal folks coming in, FEMA and
all that, they assume everycity is a strong mayor city. And
of course in North Carolina wehave a council manager form of government
and I'm not a strong mayor,but they don't really get that because
there's so many states withstrong mayors. So they just go straight
to the mayor. And I, I triedto explain to them that I wasn't
(40:04):
a strong mayor. In fact, thisjob was part time. They would just
look at me. I mean, here wewere, you know, in the middle of
this.
Yeah, why would you, why wouldyou ever do that is what they're
thinking. Probably. Yeah.Yeah. Well, you're a terrific mayor.
I mean, I, I live again outhere in the rural part of North Carolina
and have deep respect for whatyou did. I think you proved yourself
(40:27):
to be a, a terrific leaderduring a time of crisis. And I, and
I know you were very helpful.Not only you didn't see boundaries
around Asheville, you helpedother mayors and, and other folks
out in the region. You know,Josh Stein, I'm a huge fan of his.
(40:49):
He's been up here even intoMitchell county again. And folks
have to realize that we arepolitically opposite of Asheville
in that it's Trump territory.And, and I don't bemoan folks for
that. They're actually niceTrumpers, most of them. And, but
you know, Josh Stein has madean effort to come up to these areas
(41:10):
too, and not for politicalgain. He's here to help folks and
get done. Who, who do you seein western North Carolina that is
in line with kind ofRepublicans or Democrats as the future
of, of western North Carolina?Future leaders.
(41:32):
Yeah. Well, I mean, why, youguys surely have had Zeb Smathers
on this show, right?
Well, we, we've invited himand, and we're getting him and a
couple other mayors on JimMcAllister and the mayor down there
in Blackstone County, BlackMountain, Preston Blakely.
Yep, yep. You're naming themall. You're naming them all right
(41:55):
now. We, I mean we're lucky tohave some great folks in leadership
positions in western NorthCarolina and they're glad to jump
on an airplane and, and go toWashington and advocate for western
North Carolina. The, the Petero' Leary down there in Chimney Rock.
(42:16):
He's a great guy. You know,just, we just got a great, great
group of folks around herethat really understand that they
need that. You know, when itcomes to something like this, we're,
we're all, we're not a party,we are all together working as one
to advocate for ourcommunities. And I, I, I'm, I think
(42:39):
we're really lucky to havesuch a great group that, that understand
the, that role and howimportant it is to, to stay in that
lane when working on this. I,you know, I was just up in Mitchell
county as a, you know, as alawyer. I go to all these counties
all the time. I go to theircourthouses and I try to take the
opportunity to sort of seewhat's going on. And you know it
(43:00):
is a very small county in, ithad a lot of devastation and you
know, a city like Asheville,we're lucky. We have all these staff,
we can hire consultants, wecan get all the help we need. And
you know, we really need toprovide as much help and assistance
and resources to these smallercommunities as we can because they're
trying to, you know, they'retrying to navigate this with these
tiny little staffs and it's,you know, it's challenging.
(43:24):
Yeah, it is. And you know,I'll just give our own little report
up here. Again, we got $20million courtesy of, well, FEMA and
Governor Stein's office andemergency management. 20 million
to remove debris and they'veexpanded the program into private
(43:44):
property where they're goingto, you know, my little three acres
here. We've got, you know,probably 2100 year old trees down.
That would cost, you know,that cost me 40 or $50,000 to get
them removed. And they're, theprogram allows them to come in and
remove it and I'm on the listand it's going to happen eventually.
But you know, it's, we've gotall these debris trucks rolling up
(44:09):
and down the highway andnormally I and moan about, you know,
a bunch of semis polluted,polluting the area but my God, every
time I see them I actually getout of the, I pull over, let them
get ahead of me and becausethey're all working their rears off,
I mean they literally areworking seven days a week up here.
So if folk think, folks thinkthe area's dead and never coming
(44:30):
back, they need to come visitit and see themselves. So I also
pitch folks to go to fly intoAsheville, spend a couple days there,
but take a couple of day tripsup into this part of the country
and check out what's going on,and you'll see that your tax hours
are hard at work. And so,listen, you have had quite a shock
(44:55):
to your system over the lastyear. Have you personally thought
about running for anythingbeyond the mayor's role in Asheville?
Have you kind of looked atmaybe Congress down the road after
Mo's elected and retires?What's your political future look
like, Mayor?
(45:15):
Hey, Moe, tell me how easy itis to run for Congress.
I'm guessing it's not anyharder than being the mayor during
a hurricane.
No, I. You know, so when I wasa baby lawyer, when I graduated law
School in 1998, I went to workat the North Carolina legislature
(45:36):
as committee counsel. And Iwas there for four years and I helped
make the sausage. And I dolove it. I do love it. I think it's
such fascinating work, suchgreat work and that. Still know a
lot of people down there. Youknow, maybe one day it would be,
you know, just an honor torepresent this community in the legislature
(45:58):
when it's. When it's my turn.But. But for right now, I, you know,
I really do love everythinglocal. I love a good. You know, I'm
about to go to a metropolitansewage district meeting, One of my
favorite things to do everymonth. So, you know, as long as I'm
still that silly, I, you know,I might as well stay in this job.
(46:20):
You've got to.
You've got to love helpingpeople to be in the position you're
in. And that's what it's allabout, right?
Yeah. No, I mean, you know,and if you go walk the halls of Congress
and bless you, Mo, forthinking about it, it's just. It's
such a different world. Itjust feels very, you know, it feels
very overwhelming. Number one,it feels hard to make a difference.
(46:44):
We gotta have good people likeyou to go. Go give it a shot and.
And try. But it's. That's awhole different. That's a whole different
scene up there. So, you know,I. I feel like this. This place is
where I love to be and. And Iwanna. I wanna continue to serve
(47:05):
this community for as. For aslong as I can and as long as they'll
have me.
Listen, we really appreciateyou giving us some of your time and,
you know, again, props to you.I mean, you really have just done
a marvelous job under somereally difficult circumstances. And
I think, you know, Ashevillewas really lucky in western North
(47:26):
Carolina is really lucky to.To have you at the helm. So really
appreciate you taking time outto to talk with us and our guest
and you know, we're rootingfor you and rooting for Asheville
and look forward to that newnormal getting here as quick as possible.
It was so fun to talk to youguys. This was great. Thank you for
having me on.
Okay, terrific. Well, that'sall for this episode of Muck You.
(47:49):
Thank you for joining us. Aswe dug through the dirt and got to
the core of what's going on inAsheville. I'm David Wheeler, your
co host who loves to shakethings up, keep the fire burning.
It's been a blast sparringwith my partner, in truth, Colonel
Moe Davis. If you're lovingwhat we do, head on over to our website,
americanmuckrakers.com formore episodes and ways to stay in
(48:11):
the loop. Please considersupporting us with a donation to
keep our site and the Muckyoumission alive and kicking. Subscribe,
leave a review, spread theword to our friends and if you don't
like what we're doing, well,Muck you.
This has been Muck You! chosted by Colonel Moe Davis in Asheville,
North Carolina and DavidWheeler in Spruce Pine, North Carolina.
(48:34):
Thanks to our guest today, theHonorable Esther Manheimer, the mayor
of Asheville, North Carolina.Please visit Asheville and western
North Carolina to help folksthere with their post Hurricane Helene
recovery. Muck U is producedby American Muckrakers. Copyright
2025. You can learn more anddonate@americanmokrakers.com thanks
for listening listening andcome back for the next episode of
(48:54):
Muck you.
Welcome to the Muck youpodcast, produced by American Muckrakers.
Let's roll up our sleeves anddive into the mess. Uncover the truth.
I'm your co host, DavidWheeler and here to stir the pot,
bring the energy and keepthings real. Now let me hand it off
to my co host, the one andonly Colonel Moe Davis. Straight
shooting, no nonsense vetwho's been in the trenches and knows
(00:28):
how to cut through the noisewith razor sharp wit and is also
running to be the nextcongressman from NC11. Let's get
mucking, Moe.
All right, David, thank you.It's a a beautiful day here in western
North Carolina. The sun's out,there's no better place to be and
no better guest to talk aboutthe local area than our own Mayor
(00:49):
Esther Manheimer, who'sjoining us. She is a graduate of
the UNC School of Law. She's apartner law firm here in Nashville
where she specializes incommercial lit litigation and land
use. She was elected to theAsheville city council in 2009 and
served in that role from 2009to 2013 and has been the mayor of
(01:15):
Asheville since December of2013 into the present. So, Mayor
Manheimer, thank you so muchfor taking time to join us today.
Oh, it's my pleasure. Thankyou for having me.
Oh, sure. All right, well,let's start with how did a nice girl
from Denmark get into thedirty business of being mayor of
Asheville?
(01:35):
You've been reading my Wikipage, I take it? Yeah. Yes, I have.
Fun. Fact, I was born inDenmark, but. But I moved to the
United States when I wasthree, so. And of course I didn't
move to Asheville till I was17, so I can't claim I was a native
by any stretch of theimagination. I, you know, I. So one
(02:00):
of the things you were readingabout my bio is that I have a law
degree, but I also have amaster's in public administration
from Chapel Hill. And Ireally, really, really have for a
long, long time enjoyed theissues that local governments face
and have been very interestedin it. And it wasn't until my late
30s that I figured out how toblend that interest and ran for office
(02:25):
for the first time in 2009 forcity council here in Asheville.
Yeah. So you've had 2009 tothe present a constant presence in,
in city government. And whendid you realize you're a glutton
for punishment? It seems likebeing the mayor is a thankless job
where, you know, no matterwhat you do, you know, you're pissing
(02:45):
off half the people andnobody's ever fully happy. So what
keeps you motivated to do this?
Well, you know, I started toworry when I've heard the first bless
your heart, which of course issouthern for I wouldn't want that
job. So I think two things.It's very rewarding to serve as mayor
(03:13):
of Asheville. We haveobviously a really active community,
a lot of interest in what'sgoing on at the city. So I wouldn't
have it any other way. I dothink being a mayor has changed for
anyone who wants to be a mayorin the United States or probably
anywhere. And so it'sdefinitely a challenge. The landscape
(03:34):
has changed. You got to changewith it and sort of figure out what's
this new normal and how can Ibe effective today in 2025, what
do I have to contribute to, tothis community and how can I best
serve as mayor of Asheville?So, you know, it's not, it's not
for the faint of heart, Iwould say that. But it is highly
(03:55):
rewarding in my experience.
You know, there's that sayingthat we live in interest, interesting
times. And you've certainlybeen at the helm in some interesting
times. We've been throughCovid, we've been through Hurricane
Helene. I think most folksthat listen to the podcast know that,
you know, Asheville is atourism based economy and both of
(04:15):
those events, you know, had abig impact on our local area. So,
you know, it seemed like wekind of recovered from the COVID
crisis and then HurricaneHelene hit. So where are we now in
Asheville on the current roadto recovery?
Well, you know, I would say alot of things have been restored.
(04:39):
I mean, of course, thehurricane was devastating, knocking
out power and water andcommunications initially. And so
just getting those sort ofemergency services back up and running
took as, you know, a fewweeks. And then came sort of the
next level of trying to buildback a lot of the roads and bridges
(05:00):
just, you know, so peoplecould get around and get out of some
of the traffic jams created bythose sorts of issues. A lot of people
dealing with their ownpersonal situations, whether their
home or business was destroyedor impacted. So I think a lot of
people, you know, it's funny,I talk to some people and they're
like, talk about it like itwas in the past. But of course, recovery
(05:22):
is ongoing and there are partsof it that are going to take several
years just because of theinfrastructure rebuild to our park
system along the river andrestoring our water system and building
it back better. So From apublic infrastructure standpoint,
there are a lot of long rangeprojects. But the, the good news
(05:44):
is there's a lot of fundingthat's available to do all this work.
It's just a matter of gettingit all done. But we do want to make
sure people know that we'reopen for business. We have a lot
of businesses here that needto see more and more customers return,
whether they're retail,restaurant, hotel businesses that
rely on our tourism economy.So, you know, we are seeing, I'm
(06:08):
right now in downtownAsheville and we are seeing a lot
of business pick up. We'reseeing a lot of foot traffic here,
especially on weekend ends.But we need to see more of that happen
so we can continue to rebuildthis economy which is not yet back
to normal. And, and reallywhat normal looks like in the future
will probably be somethingdifferent, but hopefully, hopefully
(06:31):
better.
Yeah, I'm glad you mentionedthe pathway down by the river. I'm
a bike rider and I usually geton there as one of the safest places
to ride. And I think I'vegained 7 or 8 pounds since Helene
because I didn't change myeating habits. But I'm not getting
the exercise. So if you canmove that up to the top of the list.
(06:52):
Okay.
I'm one of those people. Ilive just outside the city limits,
so, you know, I bitch andcomplain about things in the city
even though I don't pay citytaxes. So I'm one of those folks.
I was reading, I think thecity estimates there's about a billion
dollars of infrastructurerepairs that need to be made. What's
the prognosis on funding? Youguys just passed a budget last night,
(07:17):
I think with 256 million. Soobviously the extent of the damage
is far greater than the city'scapacity to handle it. So how's it
looking about getting fundingto repair the infrastructure?
Well, the overall picture isgood. So the way this works is that
FEMA provides the funding torebuild infrastructure. Think about
(07:38):
it like a gigantic insuranceclaim. You, you have to go around
and document all your damage.We have finished with that part of
the process. And then you gotto get FEMA's approval to rebuild.
So if it's, if it's a park or,you know, a swimming pool or, or
whatever the piece ofinfrastructure is, you, you got to
get them to approve it. Andthen they pay 90% to rebuild that
(08:02):
infrastructure and the statepays the other 10%. But layered on
top of that, there are twoother pots of money that are available.
One is called hazardMitigation. This is federal funding
also that passes through thestate and the funding has already
been provide, provided in theDecember congressional aid package.
(08:24):
And this money can be used tosearch to if you will, build back
better. So if you'rerebuilding a park or whatever facility,
you can use this money to do,go beyond just rebuilding it back
the way it was before. Andthen in addition to that, our city
has been awarded $225 millionin CDBG Dr. Or community development
(08:47):
Block grant disaster relieffunds. And those can also be used
throughout the community onthings that weren't necessarily destroyed
by the disaster but are neededto create greater resiliency in our
community going forward. Canalso be used to help the business
community recover and toprovide for much needed housing.
(09:10):
So there's, there's a lot ofdifferent funding resources. It's
a really complex web. We havehad to, as most cities our size,
hire specialists whounderstand how to navigate all the
federal regulations that kickin when you're in a disaster of this
size. So, so that work ishappening. We talked a lot about
(09:32):
it yesterday at the citycouncil. We reviewed a lot of the
projects and kind of got agood overall handle on how this recovery
work will, will work. And, andagain, I mean, some of these things
are one month, two months, ayear, five years. It's, it's depends
on what the thing is that,that they're working on. But it's
(09:53):
some of it short term, some ofit's long term.
Right. So prior to Helene,were you an expert on turbidity?
No. Were you?
Yeah. That's one thing, onething Helene did. I think the educational
level on the term turbidity,it was kind of like listening for
the, you know, they call outthe lottery numbers because every
(10:14):
day you're waiting to hearwhat's the turbidity level?
Yeah.
So I think a lot of folks inthis region now know a lot more about
turbidity than they ever, everthought they needed to. Listen, you
mentioned fema. And at leastmy perception, you know, FEMA got
a lot of grief and a lot of,you know, a lot of things that were
said about FEMA were, youknow, just factually inaccurate.
(10:36):
At least my perception wasn't,from what I've seen is we're definitely
better off with FEMA thanwithout them. And my view was they
did a pretty decent job andare doing a pretty decent job of
help helping us get back onour feet. Has that been true across
the city?
Yeah, I mean, I, I'm not surewhere we'd be without fema. I mean,
(10:57):
they're providing the, thebulk of the funding to be able to
do all this work. They oversawthe debris removal. It's, you know,
the way FEMA works is they'rekind of more of like a gigantic delegator.
And so they tasked the debrisremoval to the Army Corps of Engineers,
who then hired, you know,every contractor and their mother
(11:18):
to come in here and, andremove all this debris. So that's
just an example. I would say,you know, we, we, you know, I know
there's a lot of talk aboutgetting rid of fema, but we would
be devastated if tomorrow thepresident got rid of FEMA without
replacing it with pretty muchthe exact same thing. So, you know,
(11:40):
maybe I don't know what willsatisfy the political appetite. Maybe
it needs a new name orsomething. But. Well, you know, if
I were to criticize fema, whatI would say is that one of the challenges
of fema, not just fema, butthe federal government in general,
is having to apply these sortof broad, sweeping regulations to
(12:05):
specific situations. So one ofthe things I heard a lot from FEMA
folks was, you know, the kindsof devastation we've seen with landslides
to private roads and bridgesis fairly unprecedented and not the
norm in a coastal hurricaneevent, which is what they're used
to. So they basically had tocome up with a new program to deal
(12:27):
with the repair of privateroads and bridges because it just
wasn't covered underindividual assistance or IA, which
as you may know, is capped at42,500 per individual household.
So they had to kind of figurethat out. And, and I, you know, I'm
actually impressed with howquickly they did figure it out, considering
(12:49):
you're talking about turning abattleship here when it, when it
comes to a large federalentity. So the, the, so I guess the
shortcomings, I would say, arewhere the existing regulations didn't
fit exactly our stormsituation and the kind of damages
we saw in this storm event.You know, another example, we had
(13:13):
a bunch of businesses thatneeded water trucks. Whether they're
hotels, restaurants, ormedical practice. Whatever they were,
they needed private, privatelysupplied potable water for their
business. But that wasn'tanything that FEMA reimbursed for
and doesn't reimburse for. Butthat was unique to this storm event.
(13:33):
That's not the typical issue.We also saw a lot of businesses that
went dark after the stormbecause they had no water and no
other way to replace it yet.It wasn't a business interruption
claim under Their insurancepolicy. So there's just a lot of
things where we saw damageshappen from that cascaded out of
(13:56):
this storm event that therewasn't a program, a ready, set go
that applied to thissituation. So, you know, that, that,
that's. I think a lot oflessons have been learned from this,
and maybe they'll make somechanges in the future, but those
are some of the shortcomings I noticed.
(14:16):
Well, madam Mayor, you know,I'm up here in Spruce Pine in Mitchell
county, rural, which iscertainly not politically Asheville
or topography is a little moremountainous here. One of the things
that amazed me was I liveacross from a golf course, which
(14:37):
is across from a shoppingcenter. You know, within 24 hours
of the wind subsiding, therewas a parking lot full of 200 trucks
with linemen and line womenready to roll. And I think that's
something that's. That I'mjust heartened by. I was amazed that
(15:01):
we got power back here withinabout 10 days. And I was just heartened
to see that these folks wereall here ready to help enroll in
here in this small littlecommunity. And they must have had,
you know, two or 300 pieces ofequipment that came. That came with
them. And so that was a storythat I hadn't. You know, I grew up
(15:23):
in Iowa, and I hadn'texperienced a storm like this. What's
your favorite story thatheartened you as the mayor of a city
out here in western North Carolina?
Well, well, first of all, Iwould say, you know, it was one thing
to be in Asheville during thestorm. I can't even imagine what
(15:44):
it was like to be in Mitchellor Yancey or Ash. Watauga county
in some of these areas. I'vetraveled up there quite a bit since
the storm. Madison county,and, you know, just these smaller
communities with the kind ofdevastation they were dealing with,
just truly, truly amazing. Youknow, we saw people, I think, at
(16:05):
their best. I will say, afterthis storm, it was so heartening
to see so many people help oneanother. I mean, it was truly astonishing.
Every day. In some ways, Ithought, well, of course, this is
how any community wouldrespond to this kind of catastrophe,
and they would make such greatsacrifices for one another. But I
am told this is not. Not thenorm necessarily. One thing that
(16:30):
I. A story I tell that I justabsolutely loved. You know, I. I
was the mayor. I am the mayor,and I was jumping into action as
the mayor right after thestorm. And, you know, of course,
ended up with the president onMarine one five days after the storm.
But I'm also, you know, a momand a wife and a daughter. And I've
got, you know, my dad and mystepmom and my mom and my in laws
(16:53):
and my sister. I got a lot ofpeople here and my children. And
so I was over in Woodfin,where my sister lives, a couple days
after the storm because sheand I were kind of trying to manage
this grandparent situation.And I was driving down her block
and she said that all herneighbors on her block had decided
(17:15):
that every day they were goingto meet in one person's yard at 5
o' clock every day. And theyhad picked somebody's yard and they
had put up this big tent andthey had put a big ring of chairs.
And I went past right as theywere having their first five o' clock
session. And they were allwearing name tags, you know, the
(17:37):
kind you take a marker andmake yourself a name tag. And I just
thought it was the sweetestthing in the world. And sort of funny,
you know, this day and agewith phones and everything, how it
took this event where peopleliterally had no other way to communicate
with each other except to sitaround in a circle in somebody's
yard and finally get to knowtheir neighbors and learn all their
(17:59):
names. And I just thought itwas a. A very sweet moment.
Yeah. And I think that thathappened throughout the region. I
know Moe met a lot of hisneighbors he hadn't met before. And
same here up in my smallcommunity of Spruce Pine, I got to
know all my neighbors finally.And so it was. It was really heartening
(18:21):
to see that as well. So howhas, you know, we talked a little
bit about fema. It wasn't justfema. There's a lot of other organizations
that probably deserve somethanks as well. In addition to, you
know, the government, who elsehave been big contributors into getting
(18:44):
Asheville back into somesemblance of. Of order?
You know, I mean, this is sointeresting too. You know, I feel
like I've now got a PhD innatural disaster and I was just literally
drinking it all in from themoment it happened just to see how
(19:05):
the response works. Sofascinating you have in North Carolina,
the way it's structured, ofcourse, is the emergency response
happens on a county level. Sothe county has an emergency operations
center. In our case, we had acity emergency operations center
that we actually just openedthis last year on Broadway. And we
(19:27):
had redone all of ouremergency operation procedures and
we had trained on them. So wewere all ready to go. And there's
a whole system of emergencyoperations that works on where the
counties interact with thestate. So the state is involved in
providing services in theevent of emergency through their
(19:48):
office of emergency managementand director Ray, which is so on
the state level. And I hadbeen in communications with the governor
about that. So, so you've gotthat whole piece of it and then of
course you have the federalresponse. But in addition to that,
it is amazing to me how manynon profit faith based organizations
(20:09):
are literally ready to roll inthe event of an emergency. One of
my law partners here at my lawfirm, for example is higher up with
the Mormon Church in westernNorth Carolina and the Mormon Church
out of Utah coordinated aresponse where they brought in 1500
volunteers to help go muck outpeople's houses and clean people,
(20:34):
clean people's properties up.And the reason I interacted with
them is because they needed meto put them in contact with the superintendent
of Buckland county schools sothey could find a baseball field
where they could all camp forwhile they were, you know, while
they were here. I mean, that'sjust an example of one organization
that was ready to roll, butthere are so many others. You probably
(20:56):
encountered them, they havetractor trailers packed and ready
to go in the event ofemergence of an emergency like this.
And they just roll into thecommunity and set up. I mean I had
Walmart called me up on mycell phone and said, you know, they
had several semi tractortrailers ready to go. Where did we
(21:18):
want them? You know, so wewere, you know, it was just phenomenal
to see. I was talking withHome Depot recently. They, they have
a store in East Asheville andthey, they didn't close, they had
staff sleeping in the store.So I mean, you know, there are lots
and lots of folks that didthings on a small scale and then
(21:39):
you had these huge operations.And of course locally we saw some
unprecedented things happen.Of course, Drew Reisinger at the
Register of Deeds organizedthe Flush brigade which went out
and helped people who are not,you know, they were homebound and
not able to get water to flushtheir toilets and just real basic
(22:00):
necessities like that. Butthey figured out how to get to those
folks and help them reach out.So it was, you know, we were, we
were just reviewing this andI, because, you know, we need, we're
doing an after action andwe're going to figure out, you know,
what went well, what didn't gowell, what kinds of planning do we
need to account for for thefuture? And it's actually kind of
(22:23):
difficult to draft a fullscale emergency operation plan because
there are so many of theseoutside actors that really do influence
a full storm response that youcan't really write into your emergency
operation procedures becausethey may or may not be there the
next time. They're going to bethere in some capacity, but you can't
(22:44):
really be sure. And you needto design your emergency operation
procedures, not counting onthem. But in fact, that's really
a big part of it.
One thing I was reallyimpressed with was after the storm
hit, it was neighbors helpingneighbors. There's none of this,
are you a Democrat, are you aRepublican? Or, you know, where do
(23:06):
you go to church? Or any ofthat. It was everybody pitching in
and, and helping. And you hadgroups like, you know, Franklin Graham
and Samaritan's Purse, andthen you had Jose Andres and World
Central Kitchen, and Yep, youknow, the two of them are like opposite
ends of the ideologicalspectrum. But both of their organizations
were here in a flash andstayed. And they never ask whether
(23:30):
you supported them or not. Itwas strictly, what can we do to help?
Yeah, I think that'sabsolutely right. I mean, certainly
now I will say, of course, weexperienced a natural disaster right
before an election in asupposed swing state. So there was
lots of room for partisanshipon a federal level. I mean, I, I,
(23:57):
I am certain that's one of thereasons why I spent most of my time
hosting every single visitorunder the sun coming to Asheville.
You know, of course, PresidentBiden and I flew over Asheville.
I met the vice president atthe Charlotte airport. But we also
had Speaker Mike Johnson hereand Steve Scalise, and, you know,
(24:20):
we had lots of differentcongressional visitors. And then
we had all the administration,SBA secretary, the FEMA administrator,
the acting HUD secretary. Imean, just the Pete Buttigieg. The
list goes on. We had a lot ofattention focused on western North
Carolina, not only because ofthe scale of this disaster, but I'm
(24:41):
sure also because we were sortof in the political crosshairs right
at that moment. And I justtried to, and continue to try to
deliver a message in anonpartisan manner just to continue
to get attention and focus onus to help us fully recover. We're
hopeful. We're hearing at theend of the summer, early fall, Tillis
(25:02):
may be able to help leveragein another relief package and maybe
time to go up to Congressagain. We just need to continue to
keep the focus on the recoveryof all of western North Carolina
and how folks can help us. Ithink having all these different
groups all across thepolitical spectrum here and providing
(25:26):
services and helping us outhas been a good thing for us in our
recovery.
Yeah, yeah, it really helped,too. I thought, you know, Good Morning
America came and I mean, thatyou couldn't afford to buy that kind
of advertising, Right. Thatthat whole show is just a big ad
for Asheville in western NorthCarolina. Then we had Josh Stein
(25:46):
on Colbert, I think, last week.
Yeah, that was very cool. JoshStein has been a superhero. I mean,
just really focusing hisentire administration on our recovery
and creating the Western NorthCarolina Recovery Committee that
I co chair with Senator. StateSenator Kevin Corbyn and creating
(26:07):
Grow nc, the entity that headsup the recovery on a state level.
It's just, it's. He's justbeen such an incredible advocate
and hero for western NorthCarolina. It's. It's been pretty
amazing.
Yeah, I don't, I'm not awareof any North Carolina governor that
spent as much time out here. Alot of folks in western North Carolina
(26:27):
used to feel like they wereforgotten, but certainly Governor
Stein has given us his fulltime and attention out here. And
yeah, I don't think we couldask him to do more. But, but, you
know, it's still. I wasdowntown over the week.
Yeah.
When you can go downtownAsheville on a Saturday night and
find a parking place and gointo a restaurant without a reservation
(26:48):
or. Which is kind of nice,I've got to admit that that's not
normal. And I know a lot offolks are. Are suffering. I think
last I saw, Buncombe county isranked number two out of the hundred
counties and in unemployment.Any prognosis on. And again, you
mentioned earlier, I thinkyou're exactly right that people
talk about getting back tonormal. I think it's going to be
(27:11):
a new normal. It's not goingto be the normal that existed before
Helene. But any prognosis onwhen we're going to. When we're going
to get there?
Well, you know, the state. Ithink the state has an estimate of
time that they, that they'reusing as a benchmark. But I, I was
just talking to the TourismDevelopment Authority director in
(27:35):
terms of the kinds of numbersthey're seeing. And it is right now,
it's very much a new normal.For example, she was saying hotels
outside of Asheville are upyear over year, and hotels in Asheville
are somewhat down. The otherissue is that they aren't seeing
(27:57):
as many tourist visitors.They're housing a lot of business
visitors. And that's because,you know, FEMA and other entities
have a lot of employees in thearea. That are staying in hotels.
They're paying the governmentrate, which isn't as good. So. So
it's not. It is definitely notback to where it was. We have retailers
(28:18):
and restaurants. Some saythey're up, some say they're down.
We have. You know, it's juststill a pretty mixed bag. And I think
we have a challenge inmessaging that we're open for business
and that all the images, youknow, every time I'm on national
news still, you know, I'mbeing interviewed and there's a split
(28:39):
screen, and next to me isimages of flooding rivers and landslides
and things like that. And Ithink for people who see that, they
think, oh, my gosh, you know,this isn't a place we better go visit.
It's a mess. But. But thetruth is that those. A lot of that
has been cleaned up, and weare open for business, and people
can come and visit. But tryingto get that message out is a little
(29:01):
bit of a challenge. The statehas provided marketing funds to the
state tourism authority to beable to market North Carolina, and
that is happening. Sohopefully we'll see some returns
on that. It's sort of ironic,given that tourism can be a controversial
(29:22):
topic in Asheville. But. But Ithink, you know, there's 100 agreement
that people want to see oureconomy recover and get stronger.
Yeah, I was encouraged thisweekend. I went down to River Arts
and parked and rode my bike,But a couple pulled in next to me.
It was a husband, wife, and ateenage son, and they were from Knoxville.
(29:42):
And they said, you know, theyhad heard that, you know, Asheville
was, you know, stillstruggling to get back on its feet,
and so they were looking forsomething to do for the weekend.
So they came over to spend theweekend in Asheville and looking
at the tags on the cars, youknow, it's Tennessee, Texas, Virginia,
South Carolina. You know, itdoes seem like things are beginning
(30:03):
to pick up, but we still gotquite a ways to go before we're back
to. To full capacity.
Yeah.
Let me ask you. You guyspassed a budget last night. 256.4
million. Give me a little bitof a tax increase. I was really pleased,
you know, back in. When I ranfor Office Back in 2020, one of the
(30:26):
groups that I stood with werethe firefighters. You know, back
then, they were asking toincrease their. Their minimum wage.
But I was reading about thisnew plan, the force shift. Could
you tell the listeners alittle bit about that? And. And.
And. And kudos to you guys fordoing this. I think it's a positive
step in the right direction.
(30:48):
Yeah. So the firefighters cameto us with an ask to add. Right now
the firefighters operate onthat three shift schedule and they
came to us and asked us to adda fourth shift so that they can try
to get to a number of hours ina work week that mirror more of a
(31:13):
traditional number of hoursthat employees work in a work week.
And you know, it sounds sortof simple, but it's, it's not from
a funding standpoint becauseit means having to add another over,
over a period of time. Wecan't do it all in one year, but
over a period of time, adding86 new positions, I believe, is the
(31:36):
number to be able to fill outthat fourth shift. You know, we're
a city of about 1300employees, so that's a lot of additional
employees. So. So we have aplan to do that over a period of
five years. And, and that willhelp them get to a schedule that
(31:57):
provides, you know, justfrankly, a lot better work life balance
and a, and a more. And a wagethat is more reflective of a living
wage relative to the number ofhours they, they are on the clock.
There is apparently, maybeWaynesville has made. Made moves
(32:18):
to move in this direction andGreenville, South Carolina. But we
are told this is kind of thething that we're going to see more
and more fire departments do.So, so we're. So we're doing that
now. We don't have vacanciesreally in the fire department. The
last I checked, we had one. Soit's, you know, people want to be
(32:41):
firefighters, so that's good,that's good news. They have a tough
job and they sure showed ushow tough it can be during this hurricane,
putting their lives at risk tosave people. And, you know, I think
this is something that is,it's expensive, it's difficult to
(33:01):
do. It's really just thechallenge for us. It's just kind
of managing it from afinancial standpoint. When I say
us, I mean the council, butit, but from a policy standpoint,
it makes a lot of sense to do it.
Yeah. You know, I grew up nottoo far from here, but I joined the
military in 83 and left and,you know, back in 83, you know, Asheville
(33:22):
was really depressing. Youknow, down downtown was boarded up.
You know, it just wasn't a funplace to be. So for me, coming back,
you know, moved back here in2019 and that, that reformation that
had taken place over thoseyears was just remarkable. And I
would imagine, you know,you've been in office of some sort
(33:43):
for the last 16 years. What doyou foresee, like, when you look
out at the future, what do youwant to. What's the Asheville that
you see, you know, 10, 20years down the road?
Well, good. So. Good question.So I. Yeah, I moved here in 1988,
and downtown was just startingto kind of get a little bit of a
(34:05):
spark. But I had moved fromthe Washington, D.C. area. So for
me, as a cynical teenager, Icouldn't believe it. You know, here
we were. And of course, likeyou said, it has changed so much.
And I think for the future, Ihope that we grow a balanced economy
(34:28):
that's not dependent on onearea or another, such as tourism.
I hope we provide opportunityfor younger people to move here and
to stay here and to find jobshere so they see a future here. I
have three sons myself betweenthe ages of 18 and 23, and I know
(34:49):
that the kinds of careersthey're looking at, it would be hard
to find something here thatwould allow them to stay. And I hope
to see a community thatcontinues to grow in diversity, is
open and welcoming to people,and that provides an incredible quality
of life for folks so that theyhave opportunities to enjoy and experience
(35:14):
the outdoors, which is, youknow, one of the main reasons why
people want to be here. And Ithink the city's job is to help support
that and continue to build outgreenways and bike lanes and parks
and amenities that help, youknow, people can enjoy music and
the arts and. And all thethings that help make life fun for.
(35:38):
For folks as long as they'rehere and. And if they choose to have
a family and. And have a joband live and enjoy this place. So
what does that look like? Youknow, for me, it does mean kind of
creating more dense, infillhousing, walkable community, a bikeable
(35:59):
community, and bringing morethings here that allow for people
to enjoy all the things I justtalked about. So, you know, my hopes
and dreams for what the citycan do in that is not only rebuild
and build back better all ofour recreational amenities, our parks,
(36:19):
but to grow spaces like aperforming. Performing arts center
and other things that I thinkcities are responsible for, to provide
the community for. Foropportunities to come together and
enjoy one another.
Yeah. Well, listen, you knowour, I guess, unofficial motto for
Asheville is keep Ashevilleweird. So what are you doing to keep
(36:41):
Asheville weird?
Well, I depend on the peopleof Asheville to help keep it weird,
and I feel like they're doinga good job. Don't you?
Yeah, it's It's a great place.I, you know, I'll be honest, I, I,
growing up around here, Ithought the whole world was like
this. And I took it forgranted that I joined the military
and saw the rest of the world.And I couldn't wait to get back here
(37:02):
because, you know, folks thathaven't been here, you need to come.
I mean, there is no morebeautiful place than Asheville, North
Carolina, and the surroundingarea and some of the quirkiest people
you'll ever meet, but some ofthe nicest people you'll ever meet.
And you know, again, to meit's, it's astounding. When I was
growing up, most of westernNorth Carolina were dry counties
(37:25):
and you know, Asheville to bethe craft beer capital of the world
would have just beenunimaginable, you know, 40 years
ago. So I'm really excited tosee what the future holds. I mean,
I, you know, it's going to be,there are going to be some rough
patches here and there, butI'm optimistic that, you know, they're
brighter days ahead for Asheville.
(37:46):
Yeah, you said it. That waspretty good.
Oh, well, thanks, David. Letme toss it back over to you.
Okay, cool. So, Madam Mayor,again, you know, the mayor's role
in Asheville is, I assume, aquote unquote, part time or secondary
(38:07):
role. How do you keep thislife balance between your law practice,
you know, you've got a bigfamily, a young family, and you know,
being the mayor of a city,that demands a lot from the mayor.
How do you, how do you balancethe two?
Exercise, sleep, hydration.
(38:33):
The normal.
Yeah, I mean, you know, I'mlucky to have a lot of help and support
and in my different roles,whether it's being mayor at city
hall or it's being a lawyer atmy law firm, which is across the
park from city hall. I'mlooking at city hall right now from
my law office or at home. Imean, we're sitting here having this
(38:56):
conversation. My mom's textingme and asking me what she can make
us for dinner tonight, so.
Terrific. I'll be right over.
What are we having?
All right. All right. But Imean, it is a little bit of a. It
is. I mean, there are times,there are times where I've thought,
oh my gosh, can I do this? CanI keep doing this? This is hard.
(39:19):
But now, I mean, now I'mthrough the hard part. My youngest
just graduated high school andhe's going off to college too, and
he was two years old when Ifirst ran for office. So, you know,
now it's finally getting alittle easier. But, but it is a lot.
And I, you know, mayor issupposed to be a part time job. I'll
say. You know what's funny? Imean, it's not funny, but after the
(39:41):
hurricane when we got all thefederal folks coming in, FEMA and
all that, they assume everycity is a strong mayor city. And
of course in North Carolina wehave a council manager form of government
and I'm not a strong mayor,but they don't really get that because
there's so many states withstrong mayors. So they just go straight
to the mayor. And I, I triedto explain to them that I wasn't
(40:04):
a strong mayor. In fact, thisjob was part time. They would just
look at me. I mean, here wewere, you know, in the middle of
this.
Yeah, why would you, why wouldyou ever do that is what they're
thinking. Probably. Yeah.Yeah. Well, you're a terrific mayor.
I mean, I, I live again outhere in the rural part of North Carolina
and have deep respect for whatyou did. I think you proved yourself
(40:27):
to be a, a terrific leaderduring a time of crisis. And I, and
I know you were very helpful.Not only you didn't see boundaries
around Asheville, you helpedother mayors and, and other folks
out in the region. You know,Josh Stein, I'm a huge fan of his.
(40:49):
He's been up here even intoMitchell county again. And folks
have to realize that we arepolitically opposite of Asheville
in that it's Trump territory.And, and I don't bemoan folks for
that. They're actually niceTrumpers, most of them. And, but
you know, Josh Stein has madean effort to come up to these areas
(41:10):
too, and not for politicalgain. He's here to help folks and
get done. Who, who do you seein western North Carolina that is
in line with kind ofRepublicans or Democrats as the future
of, of western North Carolina?Future leaders.
(41:32):
Yeah. Well, I mean, why, youguys surely have had Zeb Smathers
on this show, right?
Well, we, we've invited himand, and we're getting him and a
couple other mayors on JimMcAllister and the mayor down there
in Blackstone County, BlackMountain, Preston Blakely.
Yep, yep. You're naming themall. You're naming them all right
(41:55):
now. We, I mean we're lucky tohave some great folks in leadership
positions in western NorthCarolina and they're glad to jump
on an airplane and, and go toWashington and advocate for western
North Carolina. The, the Petero' Leary down there in Chimney Rock.
(42:16):
He's a great guy. You know,just, we just got a great, great
group of folks around herethat really understand that they
need that. You know, when itcomes to something like this, we're,
we're all, we're not a party,we are all together working as one
to advocate for ourcommunities. And I, I, I'm, I think
(42:39):
we're really lucky to havesuch a great group that, that understand
the, that role and howimportant it is to, to stay in that
lane when working on this. I,you know, I was just up in Mitchell
county as a, you know, as alawyer. I go to all these counties
all the time. I go to theircourthouses and I try to take the
opportunity to sort of seewhat's going on. And you know it
(43:00):
is a very small county in, ithad a lot of devastation and you
know, a city like Asheville,we're lucky. We have all these staff,
we can hire consultants, wecan get all the help we need. And
you know, we really need toprovide as much help and assistance
and resources to these smallercommunities as we can because they're
trying to, you know, they'retrying to navigate this with these
tiny little staffs and it's,you know, it's challenging.
(43:24):
Yeah, it is. And you know,I'll just give our own little report
up here. Again, we got $20million courtesy of, well, FEMA and
Governor Stein's office andemergency management. 20 million
to remove debris and they'veexpanded the program into private
(43:44):
property where they're goingto, you know, my little three acres
here. We've got, you know,probably 2100 year old trees down.
That would cost, you know,that cost me 40 or $50,000 to get
them removed. And they're, theprogram allows them to come in and
remove it and I'm on the listand it's going to happen eventually.
But you know, it's, we've gotall these debris trucks rolling up
(44:09):
and down the highway andnormally I and moan about, you know,
a bunch of semis polluted,polluting the area but my God, every
time I see them I actually getout of the, I pull over, let them
get ahead of me and becausethey're all working their rears off,
I mean they literally areworking seven days a week up here.
So if folk think, folks thinkthe area's dead and never coming
(44:30):
back, they need to come visitit and see themselves. So I also
pitch folks to go to fly intoAsheville, spend a couple days there,
but take a couple of day tripsup into this part of the country
and check out what's going on,and you'll see that your tax hours
are hard at work. And so,listen, you have had quite a shock
(44:55):
to your system over the lastyear. Have you personally thought
about running for anythingbeyond the mayor's role in Asheville?
Have you kind of looked atmaybe Congress down the road after
Mo's elected and retires?What's your political future look
like, Mayor?
(45:15):
Hey, Moe, tell me how easy itis to run for Congress.
I'm guessing it's not anyharder than being the mayor during
a hurricane.
No, I. You know, so when I wasa baby lawyer, when I graduated law
School in 1998, I went to workat the North Carolina legislature
(45:36):
as committee counsel. And Iwas there for four years and I helped
make the sausage. And I dolove it. I do love it. I think it's
such fascinating work, suchgreat work and that. Still know a
lot of people down there. Youknow, maybe one day it would be,
you know, just an honor torepresent this community in the legislature
(45:58):
when it's. When it's my turn.But. But for right now, I, you know,
I really do love everythinglocal. I love a good. You know, I'm
about to go to a metropolitansewage district meeting, One of my
favorite things to do everymonth. So, you know, as long as I'm
still that silly, I, you know,I might as well stay in this job.
(46:20):
You've got to.
You've got to love helpingpeople to be in the position you're
in. And that's what it's allabout, right?
Yeah. No, I mean, you know,and if you go walk the halls of Congress
and bless you, Mo, forthinking about it, it's just. It's
such a different world. Itjust feels very, you know, it feels
very overwhelming. Number one,it feels hard to make a difference.
(46:44):
We gotta have good people likeyou to go. Go give it a shot and.
And try. But it's. That's awhole different. That's a whole different
scene up there. So, you know,I. I feel like this. This place is
where I love to be and. And Iwanna. I wanna continue to serve
(47:05):
this community for as. For aslong as I can and as long as they'll
have me.
Listen, we really appreciateyou giving us some of your time and,
you know, again, props to you.I mean, you really have just done
a marvelous job under somereally difficult circumstances. And
I think, you know, Ashevillewas really lucky in western North
(47:26):
Carolina is really lucky to.To have you at the helm. So really
appreciate you taking time outto to talk with us and our guest
and you know, we're rootingfor you and rooting for Asheville
and look forward to that newnormal getting here as quick as possible.
It was so fun to talk to youguys. This was great. Thank you for
having me on.
Okay, terrific. Well, that'sall for this episode of Muck You.
(47:49):
Thank you for joining us. Aswe dug through the dirt and got to
the core of what's going on inAsheville. I'm David Wheeler, your
co host who loves to shakethings up, keep the fire burning.
It's been a blast sparringwith my partner, in truth, Colonel
Moe Davis. If you're lovingwhat we do, head on over to our website,
americanmuckrakers.com formore episodes and ways to stay in
(48:11):
the loop. Please considersupporting us with a donation to
keep our site and the Muckyoumission alive and kicking. Subscribe,
leave a review, spread theword to our friends and if you don't
like what we're doing, well,Muck you.
This has been Muck You! chosted by Colonel Moe Davis in Asheville,
North Carolina and DavidWheeler in Spruce Pine, North Carolina.
(48:34):
Thanks to our guest today, theHonorable Esther Manheimer, the mayor
of Asheville, North Carolina.Please visit Asheville and western
North Carolina to help folksthere with their post Hurricane Helene
recovery. Muck U is producedby American Muckrakers. Copyright
2025. You can learn more anddonate@americanmokrakers.com thanks
for listening listening andcome back for the next episode of
(48:54):
Muck you.
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