September 19, 2025 • 34 mins
David Wheeler welcomes listeners back to Muck U, where they dive into the latest political developments with their guest, Wiley Nickel, a former Congressman now running for Wake County District Attorney. Wiley shares insights about his journey through politics, including the impact of gerrymandering that forced him out of Congress and his new campaign focused on public safety and justice reform. He emphasizes the importance of supporting law enforcement while pushing for independent redistricting to ensure fair elections. The hosts engage in a lively discussion about the challenges Democrats face in changing perceptions around crime and governance, with Wiley expressing confidence in his ability to connect with voters and bring about meaningful change. As they wrap up, there's a lighthearted moment about potential "Five Timers Club" jackets for repeat guests, highlighting the camaraderie and humor that define their conversations.
David Wheeler and Mo Davis welcome back Wiley Nickel, a familiar guest, to discuss his latest political endeavors, including his candidacy for Wake County District Attorney. The conversation kicks off with a light-hearted jab about Wiley’s multiple appearances on the podcast, drawing a humorous parallel to Saturday Night Live's Five Timers Club. This episode delves into Wiley's political journey, from his time as a Congressman to his recent decision to enter the race for District Attorney after initially pursuing a Senate seat. Wiley reflects on the implications of gerrymandering in North Carolina, sharing how it impacted his political career and the broader electoral landscape. He emphasizes the need for electoral reform and the importance of fair representation, highlighting the detrimental effects of partisan map drawing on democracy. The discussion touches on the current political climate in North Carolina, the challenges of campaigning, and Wiley's vision for law enforcement as a Democrat. He advocates for a strong partnership with law enforcement while addressing the concerns of criminal justice reform, making the case for why Democrats can be tough on crime without compromising their values. Throughout the episode, there’s a balance of humor and serious political discourse, making it an engaging listen for those interested in North Carolina politics and the ongoing battle for progressive values.
The episode takes a deep dive into Wiley Nickel's political aspirations, specifically his recent shift from running for a Senate seat to pursuing the role of Wake County District Attorney. David Wheeler and Mo Davis set a conversational tone, balancing humor with the gravitas of the topics discussed. Wiley shares insights about the impact of gerrymandering on his congressional seat and the broader implications for North Carolina's political landscape. He expresses his commitment to running a campaign that prioritizes public safety and law enforcement support while also emphasizing the need for criminal justice reforms. The discussion includes Wiley's views on the current political climate, his strategies for winning the election, and the importance of grassroots support. He also highlights the need for Democrats to reclaim the narrative surrounding law enforcement, asserting that they can be both supportive of police and advocates for justice reform. The episode captures the nuances of campaigning in a polarized political environment, offering listeners a glimpse into Wiley's vision for a safer, fairer Wake County. This engaging dialogue reflects the challenges and opportunities facing candidates in today's political landscape.
Wiley Nickel's return to the podcast serves as a platform for him to articulate his vision for Wake County as he runs for District Attorney. The episode opens with a jovial conversation about Wiley's frequent appearances, setting a relaxed atmosphere for the discussion. As the conversation shifts towards serious topics, Wiley discusses the...
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Hey folks, it's David Wheeleronce again with Muck U. And I'm going
to turn it over to my co hostMoe Davis to introduce our guest
today. Take it away, Mo.
Yeah, thanks, David. Andwelcome back, everybody. It's another
beautiful day here in westernNorth Carolina, not too far away
from the leaf seasonbeginning. So we kind of missed out
(00:23):
on that last year thanks toHurricane Helene. But hopefully this
year it's going to be adifferent story. But yeah, we got
Wiley Nickel. If you've beenfollowing the show, you know he's
been on a couple of timesbefore. I think it's the third time.
You know, on Saturday NightLive they have the Five Timers Club.
So David, we're gonna have tomaybe order some jackets or something
(00:44):
if we keep having repeat. Yes,so exactly.
Or, or an empty beer can orsomething like that.
Yeah, so. Yeah, yep. While hewas a member of Congress from 2019
to 2023 in North Carolina's13th district, that's down in the
Raleigh area, he gotgerrymandered out of his congressional
(01:07):
seat. And if you're followingthe show, you know he was, he's been
on a couple times earlier heannounced early in the year he's
going to run for the Senateseat. The Thom Tillis polls he came
back on, did a, did a followup on that. And then in July after
Roy Cooper got into the race,then Wiley elected to get out. But
then I guess just a couple ofdays ago he had another announcement
(01:31):
and he's now running to be thedistrict attorney for Wake county,
which I guess I didn'trealize. Wake county is the most
populous county in the stateof North Carolina, just a few thousand
people ahead of Mecklenburg,which I guess I had assumed was the
biggest county. But LaurenFreeman is the current district attorney,
(01:52):
he's not running for reelection. Looks like Wiley's got
a couple of other competitorsin the race. But Wally, hey, thanks
for, thanks for coming back onand talking with us again.
Thanks so much, Moe. David,it's great to be with you. I'm, I
am ready for that Five TimerMuckyou jacket. So, you know, please,
you know, if I, if I can, ifyou invite me on two more times,
(02:14):
I expect the jacket andexcited to be with you here today.
You know, one of the thingstoo, you mentioned my race for the
U. S. Senate. You know, we setout with a simple mess, a simple
plan. We said I'm running forthe Senate because I want to send
Thom Tillis packing. So onthat front, it was a mission accomplished.
(02:35):
Yeah, yeah, it's, it's goingto be a, an interesting race I saw
today in, in the assembly orsomewhere I was reading where I guess,
you know, Roy Cooper is up inthe polls and certainly has the name
recognition. Watley. I think alot of folks here in North Carolina
just has no idea who he is. Sowho is the Republican contender?
(02:59):
I mean, he's, he's, you know,he's just a partisan hack, big oil
lobbyist. You know, he was thehead of the Republican Party here
in North Carolina before hewent to Washington with Trump. So
no real record of service for,for our state, you know, and you
compare that with Governor RoyCooper, you know, 16 years as our
attorney general, eight yearsas our governor, you know, he's someone
(03:22):
who's going to be a senatorfor everybody in our state. And,
you know, we got a greatchance to win that race, you know,
and for me getting out of therace, you know, I think one of the
things that, that matters forDemocrats is I think we got to be
a lot tougher and winningelections is a big part of that.
And I wanted to help make surewe can do everything we could to,
to, to flip this Senate seatfrom red to blue. And I'm, I'm proud
(03:47):
of the campaign that RoyCooper's running so far.
Yeah. Hey, looking back atyour, when you were serving in Congress,
I was looking today at the, Imean, you got gerrymandered out of
your seat and looking at thedistrict. For folks that haven't,
aren't familiar with NC13,Google it and pull up the map. It
kind of wraps around theeastern side of Raleigh. But there's
(04:11):
no way you can really explainthis map other than to achieve a
specific result which was toget rid of you.
No, that's it. You know, youlook at these maps that Republicans
drew in North Carolina andthey don't pass the smell test, they
don't even pass the eye test.You can, you can clearly see what
they're designed to do and,you know, when you can draw the maps
any way you want, you canpretty much guarantee the results.
(04:33):
The worst part about it wasthe three seats, mine included, that
Republicans gerrymandered overtwo years ago. Were the difference
in control of this currentCongress, Hakeem Jeffries would be
speaker of the House right nowby 218 to 217 with, with one vote,
probably mine. That would havebeen the difference. And Trump's,
(04:54):
you know, big ugly bill wouldnever have happened. So much of the
worst of what we're seeing outof Congress would have been dead
on arrival. And that's, that'swhat gerrymandering did. And that's
why Donald Trump is, is soinsistent on the getting other states
all over the country togerrymander. I just saw last week
Emanuel Cleaver, one of mygood friends in Congress, representing
(05:17):
Kansas City for quite a longtime, you know, Republicans in Missouri
have gerrymandered him out ofhis seat in Congress, turned a safe
Democratic seat into a safeRepublican seat. And we're all going
to be worse off because ofthat. But that's just one of the
many that we're seeing, youknow, where, where mapmakers are
(05:38):
deciding elections rather than voters.
Yeah, it's really sad. And Idon't know where this ends because
we're kind of in this tit fortat thing now where, you know, Texas
redraws their maps andCalifornia redraws theirs and then
Missouri. And where does thisend? And how do we get back to having
a, you know, a government thatactually reflects the people?
Well, you know, I know, youknow, what I have to first say is
(06:01):
where we are now. And I spentyears in the state Senate and Congress
saying gerrymandering is wr nomatter who does it. You know, we
shouldn't do it. You know, butthen when they go and do a gerrymander
in Texas, you know, that thathas shifted five seats from blue
to red immediately with thedrawing of lines. You know, I felt
like I had to come out and saysomething and, and I did. And I said
(06:22):
that, you know, what they'redoing in California as a response
to Texas is the right thing todo. Republicans are doing it. You
know, Democrats should too.And I think folks should understand
just how small that universeis of competitive seats in Congress.
I really, truly believe thatdown to less than 5% of the 435 seats
in Congress, that, that reallycould go either way at this point.
(06:45):
So there are fewer and fewerof them. And if you, you knock out,
you know, a few districts withgerrymandering, you make your odds
so much greater to, to keepcontrol of Congress. And there's
no prize for second place. Youknow, if you got 217 to 218, if you
were on the wrong side ofthat, that number, you can't get
anything done. It's allthrough party line votes in the House.
(07:05):
So it makes such a hugedifference. But I think the big point
for trying to make sense ofthe mess and it sucks and it's a
race to the bottom and it'sHorrible is who's going to fix the
problem. And the reality isRepublicans have gerrymandered much
more than Democrats. If youcount up all the seats across the
country before this stuffhappened in Texas a few weeks ago,
(07:30):
Republicans have a 16 seatgerrymandering advantage nationwide.
Democrats do it a little bit,Republicans do it a lot. It's worth
16 seats to them. So if you'relooking at who's going to fix the
problem, Democrats are theparty that has the incentive to do
it. We're the ones who wantindependent redistricting in every
state. So every state plays bythe same set of rules because it's
(07:50):
in our interest to do that. Sovoters should trust Democrats to
fix this issue in Congress. Ihad to bill the Fair Maps Act. Democrats
are going to continue pushingthis in Congress. It would require
every state in the country tohave independent redistricting commissions.
Five Democrats, fiveRepublicans, five unaffiliated, working
together to draw fair maps.You know, Arizona and Colorado are
(08:11):
kind of good examples of, ofhow that is playing out. But we can
do that with a simple majorityin the House and Senate and a president
willing to sign that bill intolaw. And you know, that's why Democrats
are the party that folksshould trust because just getting
fair maps like that is betterfor us.
Yeah. And I guarantee youwith, with AI now, you could probably
in a matter ofseconds have 435fair districts if you took people
(08:35):
out of the equation. Because,you know, this game in the system
is it's not good fordemocracy, it's not good for the
country, it's not good for thevoters. But it's where we are. And
like you said, it matters. Youknow, there's a vote today in the
House. The House has approveda continuing resolution and it was
a part, pretty much a partyline vote where, you know, Democrats
(08:55):
were trying to restore fundingfor health care. That's going to,
you know, clearly have a hugeimpact on North Carolina. And like
you said, if we had thoseextra seats, then it would have been
a different story. But youknow, it matters and folks need to
be paying attention to it.Hey, let me ask about your race for
district attorney there. Afriend of mine here in Asheville,
(09:18):
district attorney for Buncombecounty, and I've told him a number
of times that, you know, it'sa thankless job. You know, the vast
majority of what the districtattorney does, you know, most people
don't aren't aware of it, butwhen people do become aware of it,
they're either, you know,happy or or pissed off about. About
the outcome. If you've beentoo hard or too lenient or, you know,
(09:40):
people, there's. It just seemslike when you see the DA's name in
the paper, it's usually not ina. In a positive light. So why do
this to yourself?
You know, it is a hard job,you know, but that's. That's why
I'm. I'm drawn to publicservice. I'm a husband, a father
of two kids. I care abouttheir safety.
It's.
It's one of the big reasonswhy I've. I' chosen to. To, you know,
(10:02):
pursue a career in publicservice. And this is an important
job. It's important for Wakecounty, you know, the state's largest
county. There's a lot we cando to do things right in. In Wake
county and be an example forthe rest of the state on how to get
real good, you know, criminaljustice reforms and. And to support
law enforcement. That's. Ithink, a big part of this campaign
(10:23):
is, is Democrats are the partyfor law enforcement. We're the party
that wants to stand withpolice to support, you know, our
public safety, you know, andfirst responders. And what the Republican
budget is. It's aboutdefunding the police. They are taking
billions and billions ofdollars away from cities and counties.
And, you know, we have achance to really take that narrative
(10:46):
and show that we're the partythat stands with law enforcement.
So that's a big part of it.
And.
And for folks, you know, inNorth Carolina, you know, all over
the state, who. Who are. Whoare kind of, you know, looking at.
Looking at this Wake DA race,it's very different from every other
district attorney in thestate. Wake county, you know, again,
largest county in the state.You know, 100,000 criminal cases
(11:06):
come through that office everyyear. Talk about that if you want.
But one of the things thatwake. The Wake D A has that is different
from every other DA is Wakecounty, because we have the state
capitol in Raleigh. The WakeDA is also in charge of all the investigations
and prosecutions for politicalcorruption in our state. So, you
know, tackling those cases isgoing to be a huge priority for me
(11:28):
and one that really matters.And if, you know, folks are trying
to remember the Wake da, youknow, nationally and around the state,
our current district attorney,who is not running for reelection,
tried to put Governor JoshStein behind bars with a criminal
indictment going afterpolitical speech. She. She used a
close to 100-year-old statuteto try to put him behind bars for
(11:51):
a truthful Campaign ad. It wasone of the, the, you know, one of
the, the reasons, if you'retalking about decisions that people
make in these jobs, thatreally matters.
So what happened with that case?
He was a clear first. It wasclearly protected by the First Amendment.
That, that kind of speech, thecourts have said over and over and
over is protected. You can'tput someone in jail because you don't
(12:14):
like what they say and itdoesn't agree with your political
views and, and, and they threwit out. But, you know, if I were
a district attorney, I, Icertainly would never have filed
that case.
Yeah, it's a complete waste oftime and money. And, you know, obviously,
if Stein did something wrong,you got to. A political ad in political
(12:34):
speech is probably not theplace to start, but thank goodness
she's not running again. Andso how's your campaign going so far?
Tell folks a little bit aboutyourself, refresh their memories
as well as. Let's give them awebsite so they can go check you
out and drop some cash there.
No. Hey, I'd really appreciateany support and help in this race
(12:55):
for Wake.
Sorry, let me, let me revisethat. Sorry to interrupt you. While
he not drop cash, we're goingto drop a contribution legally through
the website.
That's what I thought you meant.
We can't do cash in North Carolina.
No, it's, it's.Wileynickel.com is the website. You
can learn a ton more about theissues that I'm focused on in this
(13:19):
race for district attorney.But about me, I've been a practicing
attorney here in Wake countyfor well over a decade. I served
in the North Carolina StateSenate, but most people don't know
when you're in the statesenate, it's a job that only pays
14,000 a year. Everyone hasother jobs. They do. So up until
two years ago, I was apracticing attorney. Then I was elected
(13:41):
to Congress flipping one ofjust six Republican seats from red
to blue nationwide. In thelast Congress, as we said earlier,
my district was gerrymanderedaway from me. So Republican gerrymandering
cut my time short in Congress.I've got a lot of work left to do,
and we got a terrificopportunity to do things that will
help Wake county and the restof the state with this race for district
(14:05):
attorney.
So how's the race going sofar? How you feeling?
It's great. We just launchedthis week and had a really great
response, and now I'm justhitting the ground running. Also
really focused on here in Wakecounty and around the state. We've
got a bunch of municipalelections. Those are really important.
So I'm supporting Democrats upand down the ballot in those races,
(14:26):
you know, because getting abig turnout for these municipal elections
in November is going to showthe strength we need to flip our
U.S. senate seat to make surewe reelect Anita Earls to our Supreme
Court and help elect Democratsup and down the ballot. Those are,
you know, I think my, my bigfocus right now is making sure that,
that, that we're in the bestpossible position to, to win big
(14:50):
and get folks out to vote next year.
So one of the other thingsthat we talk about a lot here is,
you know, Democrats runningtough campaigns. I think once you
get through the primary, thatrace is pretty much over, I assume.
But on the same token, whenyou govern, you got to govern for
all the people. So my questionfor you, Wiley, is how do we change
(15:12):
this perception, and it isperception that Democrats are weak
on crime because that'sclearly not the case statistically
or just from a everydaystandpoint. Democrats, you know,
traditionally are a little bittougher on criminals than, than Republicans
are. How do we change that perception?
(15:34):
Well, you know, it starts withputting people into the right positions.
And, and that for me is goingto be one of my top priorities, is
going all over everywhere Ipossibly can to, to hammer that message,
showing the data, showing whatwe need to do. One of the things,
you know, in Congress, Irepresented urban, suburban and rural
parts of North Carolina. Andyou know, especially as you're getting
(15:54):
into more rural parts of thestate and, and suburban and even
urban, you know, you saw ahuge lack, a huge challenge for workforce
for law enforcement. You'vegot, you know, fewer people going
into the profession, you know,fewer, you know, many more, you know,
positions available. So we gotto make sure that we invest, you
(16:14):
know, if we want to have, youknow, real public safety, it costs
money. And we need to investin good training. We need to make
sure, you know, we're, we'repaying, giving our, our law enforcement
officials, our police therespect they deserve with good pay,
good benefits, good workingconditions. And, and that's going
to be the, the thing that Ifocus on as, as district attorney.
(16:37):
You have a huge platform tomake that case and drive it home.
And I think that's, that's aplace where Democrats can, can win
back a lot of these votersthat we've lost. And frankly, we've
lost a lot of voters,especially, you know, folks in the
center. And we got to showthat. We got to show, put, put our
money where our Mouth is andshow folks that we are the party
that stands with lawenforcement. And I think Donald Trump
(16:58):
is making that very easy forus. You know, he literally people
who, who beat up cops onJanuary 6th and let them out. Unbelievable
to me. And everything we'reseeing with a corrupt administration
in Washington shows exactlythe same contempt for law enforcement.
And it's about these budgetstoo. Don't tell me what you think.
(17:23):
Show me where it is in yourbudget. And Donald Trump's budget
is one that defunds the policeand it's going to make it much harder
to have good public safety inNorth Carolina and around the country.
Well, and one of the otherthings that we need to do is reinvigorate
the Democratic leadershipacross the state. And I, I hope you
will, you know, once you getyour feet under you and, and you've
(17:45):
started making things happenin wake. Well, maybe take some of
these other counties underyour wing and help, help get them
elect, help them electDemocrats again to some of these
county within some of these,you know, non urban urban counties.
Is that something you could help?
No, it's always been a bigpriority for me. You know, in the
last election I wasn't on theballot because of gerrymandering,
(18:07):
but I went all over the state,I raised over half a million dollars
for, for Democrats up and downthe ballot, going to continue doing
that. And I think the messagethat you have, David, is really simple
and really important here. Weneed to put Democrats on the ballot
everywhere. Even, even if youare listening to this and you know
it is a no win race, you arein super red, super red area. You
(18:28):
got to push that message out,you know, make people, you know,
answer for, for the work theydo. If they're in a, you know, a
competitive area, great. Ifit's a super Republican area, even
better. You got to get thatmessage out. And I think that that's
something that is going to bea part of our long term success.
But just getting people to runfor office and contest every race
(18:48):
and, and talk about issues is,is one of the first steps.
And when you were in Congress,you were a member of the Blue Dog
Coalition. And I'm justwondering, do you think that's, that's
where the party needs to,needs to be focused? I mean, it seems
like a lot of folks areconcerned that, you know, we've gotten
too far astray and to theextremes and maybe back towards the
(19:10):
middle. Is that, is that wherewe need to be looking?
You know, I think we need tobe just doing a Better job selling
our policies and talking aboutwhat we're really for. And, and it's,
it's a, it's a time where Ithink we have a real opportunity
there. You know, we are theparty of working families. I think
that's the message that hasgotten lost in so much of this in
(19:30):
Washington. And what I foundin a, in a, you know, very competitive
seat, I want a Republicanleaning seat, you know, is I found
like the biggest divide wasbecause of gerrymandering in Congress.
You had, it wasn't Democrat,Republican. It was safe seats versus
competitive seats. And thefolks who are in these very safe
seats, which again, you know,90, 95% of the seats in Congress
(19:51):
would kind of fall in thatcategory. We really just focused
on appealing to the far leftor the far right to win their Democrat
or Republican primaries. Andthere are fewer people, you know,
incentivized to really getthings done and work towards the
center. So, you know, we havegood messages, we have good messengers,
but you just hear so much fromthe, the, you know, the extremes.
And I think that's, that'swhat gerrymandering has done, you
(20:12):
know, in, in, you know, to, toharm that ability to communicate.
But we need folks talkingabout what we're going to do, you
know, to, to combat apresident who's total working families
in North Carolina and aroundthe country. And you were talking
about health care earlier inNorth Carolina is pretty simple.
This bill that Trump hassigned into law is going to mean
(20:33):
over 600,000 of our friendsand neighbors in North Carolina are
going to lose access to healthcare. That's a big deal and that's
one that we got to continuedriving home. We're the party that
supports working families andeverything that Donald Trump is doing
is all about supporting hisbillionaire buddies and CEOs at the
top.
Yeah, that's one of thearguments I've been making is I'd
(20:54):
like to see us redefine thisto where it's not. I mean, right
now it tends to be, you know,either a, you know, choice between
red and blue, either have an Rnext to your name or a D next to
your name. And people vote,you know, based on their perceived
interest. I think this oughtto be a contest between the rich
and the rest because on oneside you've got these policies that
(21:18):
are clearly, I mean, all thedata shows that the rich are getting
richer and the poor aregetting poor and the middle class
is disappearing. And we needto get that message across to folks
that if you're not One of therich, you know, if you're one of
the rest, the Republican Partyis not looking out for you and your
family. We are. And it seemslike, you know, it's a shame that
we, we've lost touch withworking class folks when we truly
(21:42):
are the party that has theirinterests at heart.
That's exactly right. Youknow, and we can talk policy after
policy where that, that playsout. But you know, one of the, that
I, I've spent time talkingabout and, and we're going to have
to in the next decade here isSocial Security. That's a place where
those, those same ideas playout exactly for folks in a way that
(22:02):
they can really understand andappreciate. You know, you've got
a cap. It's, it's just over160,000, I don't think exact number.
But once, once you, you makemore than that a year, you stop paying
into Social Security. Youknow, I had a bill in Congress that
would require those makingover 400,000 to start paying into
Social Security. There'sothers that have a million. But that's
(22:24):
a simple place where you canshow where you stand with your values.
And Social Security is goingto run out of money in the next decade
and we're going to have to dosomething. And it's what we are either
going to make, you know,millionaires and billionaires pay
their fair share or we'regoing to make people work two or
three years longer before theyget the benefits, the earned benefits
(22:44):
that they've paid into alltheir life. That's a place where
the exact stuff we're talkingabout is going to play out in a very
real way. And we get to showfolks you know where we stand. And
Republicans, I guarantee youtalk to any Republican, bring them
on the show, they, they aregoing to tell you they're not going
to have an answer for you onthis because they're never going
to raise taxes on millionaires.
(23:06):
Yeah, yeah, I did the math oneday because you know, if you're a
minimum wage worker atMcDonald's, you're paying, I forget
the exact rates, like 7.6%FICA tax that supports Social Security
and Medicare. But if you're,if you're Elon Musk and you're making
billions of dollars, it worksout to like.00003%. And that's just
(23:28):
not fair. We're not, you know,I don't think anybody's arguing to
soak the rich, but it's aboutdamn time. They pay their fair share.
That's it. Exactly. And, andwhat you're seeing is, is the super
wealthy, you know, continue topay much less than, you know, the,
the, you know, the, the peoplewho support them at their companies.
You know, you've got a, youknow, personal assistant, a secretary
(23:51):
or receptionist at a, at amajor company. They, they pay more
taxes as a percentage of theirincome than, than the CEOs. Over
and over and over. You seethat, and it's just wrong.
Hey, let me ask about a coupleother legal issues. You know, one
that, you know, everybody'stalking about right now is what happened
with Jimmy Kimmel, you know,getting ABC electing to end his show,
(24:11):
you know, after beingpressured by Trump and the head of
the fcc. It seems like, youknow, the times we're living in where
we have American troops andAmerican cities intimidating people,
where we have comediansgetting fired, you know, for making
jokes, you know, it's hard toimagine this is America.
(24:33):
This is a really dangeroustime. You know, I'm encouraged, though,
by voters of all, you know,who support all the political parties,
Democrats, Republicans,Independents, who are as upset at
what they're seeing out ofTrump in Washington. The midterms
give us a chance to reallyshow where the country stands on
this. He's not representing,you know, mainstream values in Washington.
(24:58):
And this is a chilling attackon free speech. And, you know, I
think for anybody trying tomake sense of it, I think what Jimmy
Kimmel said wasn't the reasonhe was fired. He was fired because
Donald Trump pressured theparent companies and would have cost
them millions, if not billionsby blocking a merger if they didn't
(25:18):
get rid of him. And that'spretty scary because the reason that
his show was canceled wasbecause of what he said over and
over, not what he said in onenight, but what he said about Trump
every night. And now we'velost that voice on, you know, abc.
And I think you're going tosee news organizations and, you know,
(25:42):
media companies and talk showschange the way they talk because
of it, and that's really badfor democracy.
Yeah. I'm hoping Kim willsues. You may be familiar with the.
There's a case the SupremeCourt decided in May of last year,
National Rifle associationversus Volo. And it was a case where
the nra, it was a stateregulator who was putting pressure
(26:05):
on companies, not, I think itwas insurance policies that the NRA
was, you know, hawking. Andthey were putting pressure on companies
not to, to do business, youknow, with the NRA in a unanimous
decision. I mean, it's rareyet The Supreme Court all to agree
on an issue, but a unanimousdecision written by Justice Sotomayor,
(26:27):
in which every conservativejustice agreed, said that that was
a violation of the FirstAmendment. This indirect, you know,
this threat of bad things canhappen to you if you don't silence
political speech. So I'mhoping Kimmel sues. I mean, I think
the Supreme Court would have ahard time tap dancing around a 90
(26:49):
decision that just came outfor, but 15 months ago.
Yeah, no, I think like, likeme and everybody else, we're just
kind of holding our breath tosee what he does next. I, I, you
know, I'm, I'm, I'm hopefulthat, you know, he continues to,
to stay out there. I, I likethis show a lot. I thought it was
pretty funny.
Yeah.
And, you know, I can't imaginethat they could ever replace him
(27:12):
with anybody that, that wouldbe the same.
Right. I'm curious, too, whatyour take is on, you know, Trump
saying he's going to designateAntifa as a, a domestic terrorism
group, you know, during hislast term is his director of the
FBI said that, you know,Antifa really hitting the group.
It's an ideology. So to me, itseems like this is more show over
(27:34):
substance. But what's yourtake on this?
Yeah, I think it is. And, andthat's how Trump continues to just
dominate the, the news cycleevery day. He eats up all the oxygen.
And, and that's the problemfor Democrats is, you know, we can't
get a word in edgewisebecause, you know, as President,
he's doing 20 different thingsevery day, and we're just struggling
(27:55):
to keep up with it. But thisis, is, is one of it, you know, is
just more of the same. Youknow, my, my hope is that folks will
dig in more onto the policyside and see how that really affects
them in their daily lives.These tariffs are horrible. You know,
you go to the grocery storeand you can see item after item that's,
that's just gone through theroof. So I think on all of these
(28:18):
fronts, it's going to catch upwith him. You know, this is not a
president who's governing for,for all Americans. You know, he's,
he is, is someone that, thathas has strayed so far from where
even, you know, Republicans,you know, you know, you look back
at George W. Bush and GeorgeH.W. bush and, you know, he's doing
(28:38):
things that they would neverthink of doing.
So, Wiley, how do you win thisrace? What's important? Obviously,
wileynickel.com folks candonate, but what's your strategy
to separate yourself from theother two opponents?
You know, just continue totalk about the, the work that I did
as a state senator, as inCongress, as an Obama staffer, and
what I want to do for Wakecounty getting out with a positive
(29:00):
message. I'm going to be goingall over Wake county, and I hope
folks will be interested inthis race and, and check us out again@wileynickel.com
which is my website. But, youknow, I think that politics is pretty
simple. Just put out apositive message and work real hard
to talk to the voters andyou're going to be successful. So
on that level, I think we'reoff to a great start and just excited
(29:23):
to continue the work I startedin Congress and really kind of to
tie this back to what we weretalking about before, too. The courts
really are a place where we'reseeing a lot of good work fighting
back to, against DonaldTrump's administration and their
overreach. Whether it'sAttorney General Jeff Jackson, you
know, or other, other actorsin our state, this is a place where
(29:46):
we need to make sure we'reelecting Democrats to stand up for
our values. That's going to bea big part of my campaign as well.
Good, good, well. And, and weall love Jeff Jackson, and I think
you served with him in theSenate, and I think that's important,
too, that you've got a goodrelationship with the Attorney General
of the entire state and youguys can coordinate certain law enforcement
(30:07):
actions and show, show thisstate again that Democrats are just
as tough on criminals and moreimportantly, support law enforcement
officers and the concept ofactually the law in this state. Because
there's, you know, a lot ofpeople, including our president,
(30:27):
that don't seem to believethat the law is that important anymore.
So one last question. Yousound good. You look excited. You
look like you're pumped andready to move. I think having the
Roy Cooper hanging over orpotentially getting in maybe made
you a little tentative in thelast, last podcast we had with you.
(30:50):
But I, I, I really hope folkswill go to wileynickel.com and check
out Wiley's page. Backgroundhis lovely family. Consider giving
him a couple dollars for hiscampaign. But I've got one last question
for you, Wiley, and then we'llcall today the DA's. If the DA's
office had a big neon signover the front door, which would
(31:12):
you pick? Justice for All OrB, Play stupid games, Win Stupid
prizes. Or C, we've got thereceipts. Which one is it?
Justice for? All.
Right, well, I I kind ofsuspected that would be the one.
But I was hoping you would gofor the stupid game, stupid prizes
(31:35):
because that would be funactually to see in law.
Well, I, I am looking forthat, that prize of the, of the mucky
jacket when I can come.
Oh, he's going back to themucky jacket.
All right.
We're gonna have to raise some money.
Or a T shirt. I would take a Tshirt too, but you know, you don't
have to go full jacket.
You know, the people thatlisten to the podcast don't get to,
(31:58):
I mean, you've seen David andI and you know what high fashion
individuals we are. So our,our fashion consultants are busy
working on that jacket right now.
All right, Wiley, well, bestof luck and we'll have you back for
the fourth and maybe I'll,we'll delay your fifth until we actually
raise some money to cover thatT shirt. But thanks again for joining
(32:20):
us, Wiley. That's it for thisepisode of Muck.
Cue.
Thanks again to my co hostColonel Mo Davis and to Congressman
Wiley Nichol for joining us ashe takes on the fight to be the next
Wake County District attorney.Thank you also to Alicia on Wiley's
staff. We'll be watchingWiley's race closely. Until next
time, I'm David Wheeler,member of maga. Starts bothering
(32:42):
you, just turn to him and say,muck you.
This has been Muck you, cohosted by Colonel Mo Davis in Asheville
and David Wheeler in SprucePine, North Carolina. Thanks to our
guest today, the honorableWiley Nichol, former member of Congress
and current candidate for WakeCounty District Attorney. Learn more
about Wiley and donate to hiscampaign@wileynickell.com Mucky was
(33:07):
produced by AmericanMuckrakers. Copyright 2025. Listen
to additional episodes withErrol Musk, Anthony Scaramucci, Paul
Begala, Mark McKinnon andothers@AmericanMokrakers.com Please
subscribe and support our workon Substack. Thanks for listening
and y' all come back for thenext episode of Muck.
(33:28):
U.
Know who made it.
Sa.
(33:59):
It. You know who made it.
Hey folks, it's David Wheeleronce again with Muck U. And I'm going
to turn it over to my co hostMoe Davis to introduce our guest
today. Take it away, Mo.
Yeah, thanks, David. Andwelcome back, everybody. It's another
beautiful day here in westernNorth Carolina, not too far away
from the leaf seasonbeginning. So we kind of missed out
(00:23):
on that last year thanks toHurricane Helene. But hopefully this
year it's going to be adifferent story. But yeah, we got
Wiley Nickel. If you've beenfollowing the show, you know he's
been on a couple of timesbefore. I think it's the third time.
You know, on Saturday NightLive they have the Five Timers Club.
So David, we're gonna have tomaybe order some jackets or something
(00:44):
if we keep having repeat. Yes,so exactly.
Or, or an empty beer can orsomething like that.
Yeah, so. Yeah, yep. While hewas a member of Congress from 2019
to 2023 in North Carolina's13th district, that's down in the
Raleigh area, he gotgerrymandered out of his congressional
(01:07):
seat. And if you're followingthe show, you know he was, he's been
on a couple times earlier heannounced early in the year he's
going to run for the Senateseat. The Thom Tillis polls he came
back on, did a, did a followup on that. And then in July after
Roy Cooper got into the race,then Wiley elected to get out. But
then I guess just a couple ofdays ago he had another announcement
(01:31):
and he's now running to be thedistrict attorney for Wake county,
which I guess I didn'trealize. Wake county is the most
populous county in the stateof North Carolina, just a few thousand
people ahead of Mecklenburg,which I guess I had assumed was the
biggest county. But LaurenFreeman is the current district attorney,
(01:52):
he's not running for reelection. Looks like Wiley's got
a couple of other competitorsin the race. But Wally, hey, thanks
for, thanks for coming back onand talking with us again.
Thanks so much, Moe. David,it's great to be with you. I'm, I
am ready for that Five TimerMuckyou jacket. So, you know, please,
you know, if I, if I can, ifyou invite me on two more times,
(02:14):
I expect the jacket andexcited to be with you here today.
You know, one of the thingstoo, you mentioned my race for the
U. S. Senate. You know, we setout with a simple mess, a simple
plan. We said I'm running forthe Senate because I want to send
Thom Tillis packing. So onthat front, it was a mission accomplished.
(02:35):
Yeah, yeah, it's, it's goingto be a, an interesting race I saw
today in, in the assembly orsomewhere I was reading where I guess,
you know, Roy Cooper is up inthe polls and certainly has the name
recognition. Watley. I think alot of folks here in North Carolina
just has no idea who he is. Sowho is the Republican contender?
(02:59):
I mean, he's, he's, you know,he's just a partisan hack, big oil
lobbyist. You know, he was thehead of the Republican Party here
in North Carolina before hewent to Washington with Trump. So
no real record of service for,for our state, you know, and you
compare that with Governor RoyCooper, you know, 16 years as our
attorney general, eight yearsas our governor, you know, he's someone
(03:22):
who's going to be a senatorfor everybody in our state. And,
you know, we got a greatchance to win that race, you know,
and for me getting out of therace, you know, I think one of the
things that, that matters forDemocrats is I think we got to be
a lot tougher and winningelections is a big part of that.
And I wanted to help make surewe can do everything we could to,
to, to flip this Senate seatfrom red to blue. And I'm, I'm proud
(03:47):
of the campaign that RoyCooper's running so far.
Yeah. Hey, looking back atyour, when you were serving in Congress,
I was looking today at the, Imean, you got gerrymandered out of
your seat and looking at thedistrict. For folks that haven't,
aren't familiar with NC13,Google it and pull up the map. It
kind of wraps around theeastern side of Raleigh. But there's
(04:11):
no way you can really explainthis map other than to achieve a
specific result which was toget rid of you.
No, that's it. You know, youlook at these maps that Republicans
drew in North Carolina andthey don't pass the smell test, they
don't even pass the eye test.You can, you can clearly see what
they're designed to do and,you know, when you can draw the maps
any way you want, you canpretty much guarantee the results.
(04:33):
The worst part about it wasthe three seats, mine included, that
Republicans gerrymandered overtwo years ago. Were the difference
in control of this currentCongress, Hakeem Jeffries would be
speaker of the House right nowby 218 to 217 with, with one vote,
probably mine. That would havebeen the difference. And Trump's,
(04:54):
you know, big ugly bill wouldnever have happened. So much of the
worst of what we're seeing outof Congress would have been dead
on arrival. And that's, that'swhat gerrymandering did. And that's
why Donald Trump is, is soinsistent on the getting other states
all over the country togerrymander. I just saw last week
Emanuel Cleaver, one of mygood friends in Congress, representing
(05:17):
Kansas City for quite a longtime, you know, Republicans in Missouri
have gerrymandered him out ofhis seat in Congress, turned a safe
Democratic seat into a safeRepublican seat. And we're all going
to be worse off because ofthat. But that's just one of the
many that we're seeing, youknow, where, where mapmakers are
(05:38):
deciding elections rather than voters.
Yeah, it's really sad. And Idon't know where this ends because
we're kind of in this tit fortat thing now where, you know, Texas
redraws their maps andCalifornia redraws theirs and then
Missouri. And where does thisend? And how do we get back to having
a, you know, a government thatactually reflects the people?
Well, you know, I know, youknow, what I have to first say is
(06:01):
where we are now. And I spentyears in the state Senate and Congress
saying gerrymandering is wr nomatter who does it. You know, we
shouldn't do it. You know, butthen when they go and do a gerrymander
in Texas, you know, that thathas shifted five seats from blue
to red immediately with thedrawing of lines. You know, I felt
like I had to come out and saysomething and, and I did. And I said
(06:22):
that, you know, what they'redoing in California as a response
to Texas is the right thing todo. Republicans are doing it. You
know, Democrats should too.And I think folks should understand
just how small that universeis of competitive seats in Congress.
I really, truly believe thatdown to less than 5% of the 435 seats
in Congress, that, that reallycould go either way at this point.
(06:45):
So there are fewer and fewerof them. And if you, you knock out,
you know, a few districts withgerrymandering, you make your odds
so much greater to, to keepcontrol of Congress. And there's
no prize for second place. Youknow, if you got 217 to 218, if you
were on the wrong side ofthat, that number, you can't get
anything done. It's allthrough party line votes in the House.
(07:05):
So it makes such a hugedifference. But I think the big point
for trying to make sense ofthe mess and it sucks and it's a
race to the bottom and it'sHorrible is who's going to fix the
problem. And the reality isRepublicans have gerrymandered much
more than Democrats. If youcount up all the seats across the
country before this stuffhappened in Texas a few weeks ago,
(07:30):
Republicans have a 16 seatgerrymandering advantage nationwide.
Democrats do it a little bit,Republicans do it a lot. It's worth
16 seats to them. So if you'relooking at who's going to fix the
problem, Democrats are theparty that has the incentive to do
it. We're the ones who wantindependent redistricting in every
state. So every state plays bythe same set of rules because it's
(07:50):
in our interest to do that. Sovoters should trust Democrats to
fix this issue in Congress. Ihad to bill the Fair Maps Act. Democrats
are going to continue pushingthis in Congress. It would require
every state in the country tohave independent redistricting commissions.
Five Democrats, fiveRepublicans, five unaffiliated, working
together to draw fair maps.You know, Arizona and Colorado are
(08:11):
kind of good examples of, ofhow that is playing out. But we can
do that with a simple majorityin the House and Senate and a president
willing to sign that bill intolaw. And you know, that's why Democrats
are the party that folksshould trust because just getting
fair maps like that is betterfor us.
Yeah. And I guarantee youwith, with AI now, you could probably
in a matter ofseconds have 435fair districts if you took people
(08:35):
out of the equation. Because,you know, this game in the system
is it's not good fordemocracy, it's not good for the
country, it's not good for thevoters. But it's where we are. And
like you said, it matters. Youknow, there's a vote today in the
House. The House has approveda continuing resolution and it was
a part, pretty much a partyline vote where, you know, Democrats
(08:55):
were trying to restore fundingfor health care. That's going to,
you know, clearly have a hugeimpact on North Carolina. And like
you said, if we had thoseextra seats, then it would have been
a different story. But youknow, it matters and folks need to
be paying attention to it.Hey, let me ask about your race for
district attorney there. Afriend of mine here in Asheville,
(09:18):
district attorney for Buncombecounty, and I've told him a number
of times that, you know, it'sa thankless job. You know, the vast
majority of what the districtattorney does, you know, most people
don't aren't aware of it, butwhen people do become aware of it,
they're either, you know,happy or or pissed off about. About
the outcome. If you've beentoo hard or too lenient or, you know,
(09:40):
people, there's. It just seemslike when you see the DA's name in
the paper, it's usually not ina. In a positive light. So why do
this to yourself?
You know, it is a hard job,you know, but that's. That's why
I'm. I'm drawn to publicservice. I'm a husband, a father
of two kids. I care abouttheir safety.
It's.
It's one of the big reasonswhy I've. I' chosen to. To, you know,
(10:02):
pursue a career in publicservice. And this is an important
job. It's important for Wakecounty, you know, the state's largest
county. There's a lot we cando to do things right in. In Wake
county and be an example forthe rest of the state on how to get
real good, you know, criminaljustice reforms and. And to support
law enforcement. That's. Ithink, a big part of this campaign
(10:23):
is, is Democrats are the partyfor law enforcement. We're the party
that wants to stand withpolice to support, you know, our
public safety, you know, andfirst responders. And what the Republican
budget is. It's aboutdefunding the police. They are taking
billions and billions ofdollars away from cities and counties.
And, you know, we have achance to really take that narrative
(10:46):
and show that we're the partythat stands with law enforcement.
So that's a big part of it.
And.
And for folks, you know, inNorth Carolina, you know, all over
the state, who. Who are. Whoare kind of, you know, looking at.
Looking at this Wake DA race,it's very different from every other
district attorney in thestate. Wake county, you know, again,
largest county in the state.You know, 100,000 criminal cases
(11:06):
come through that office everyyear. Talk about that if you want.
But one of the things thatwake. The Wake D A has that is different
from every other DA is Wakecounty, because we have the state
capitol in Raleigh. The WakeDA is also in charge of all the investigations
and prosecutions for politicalcorruption in our state. So, you
know, tackling those cases isgoing to be a huge priority for me
(11:28):
and one that really matters.And if, you know, folks are trying
to remember the Wake da, youknow, nationally and around the state,
our current district attorney,who is not running for reelection,
tried to put Governor JoshStein behind bars with a criminal
indictment going afterpolitical speech. She. She used a
close to 100-year-old statuteto try to put him behind bars for
(11:51):
a truthful Campaign ad. It wasone of the, the, you know, one of
the, the reasons, if you'retalking about decisions that people
make in these jobs, thatreally matters.
So what happened with that case?
He was a clear first. It wasclearly protected by the First Amendment.
That, that kind of speech, thecourts have said over and over and
over is protected. You can'tput someone in jail because you don't
(12:14):
like what they say and itdoesn't agree with your political
views and, and, and they threwit out. But, you know, if I were
a district attorney, I, Icertainly would never have filed
that case.
Yeah, it's a complete waste oftime and money. And, you know, obviously,
if Stein did something wrong,you got to. A political ad in political
(12:34):
speech is probably not theplace to start, but thank goodness
she's not running again. Andso how's your campaign going so far?
Tell folks a little bit aboutyourself, refresh their memories
as well as. Let's give them awebsite so they can go check you
out and drop some cash there.
No. Hey, I'd really appreciateany support and help in this race
(12:55):
for Wake.
Sorry, let me, let me revisethat. Sorry to interrupt you. While
he not drop cash, we're goingto drop a contribution legally through
the website.
That's what I thought you meant.
We can't do cash in North Carolina.
No, it's, it's.Wileynickel.com is the website. You
can learn a ton more about theissues that I'm focused on in this
(13:19):
race for district attorney.But about me, I've been a practicing
attorney here in Wake countyfor well over a decade. I served
in the North Carolina StateSenate, but most people don't know
when you're in the statesenate, it's a job that only pays
14,000 a year. Everyone hasother jobs. They do. So up until
two years ago, I was apracticing attorney. Then I was elected
(13:41):
to Congress flipping one ofjust six Republican seats from red
to blue nationwide. In thelast Congress, as we said earlier,
my district was gerrymanderedaway from me. So Republican gerrymandering
cut my time short in Congress.I've got a lot of work left to do,
and we got a terrificopportunity to do things that will
help Wake county and the restof the state with this race for district
(14:05):
attorney.
So how's the race going sofar? How you feeling?
It's great. We just launchedthis week and had a really great
response, and now I'm justhitting the ground running. Also
really focused on here in Wakecounty and around the state. We've
got a bunch of municipalelections. Those are really important.
So I'm supporting Democrats upand down the ballot in those races,
(14:26):
you know, because getting abig turnout for these municipal elections
in November is going to showthe strength we need to flip our
U.S. senate seat to make surewe reelect Anita Earls to our Supreme
Court and help elect Democratsup and down the ballot. Those are,
you know, I think my, my bigfocus right now is making sure that,
that, that we're in the bestpossible position to, to win big
(14:50):
and get folks out to vote next year.
So one of the other thingsthat we talk about a lot here is,
you know, Democrats runningtough campaigns. I think once you
get through the primary, thatrace is pretty much over, I assume.
But on the same token, whenyou govern, you got to govern for
all the people. So my questionfor you, Wiley, is how do we change
(15:12):
this perception, and it isperception that Democrats are weak
on crime because that'sclearly not the case statistically
or just from a everydaystandpoint. Democrats, you know,
traditionally are a little bittougher on criminals than, than Republicans
are. How do we change that perception?
(15:34):
Well, you know, it starts withputting people into the right positions.
And, and that for me is goingto be one of my top priorities, is
going all over everywhere Ipossibly can to, to hammer that message,
showing the data, showing whatwe need to do. One of the things,
you know, in Congress, Irepresented urban, suburban and rural
parts of North Carolina. Andyou know, especially as you're getting
(15:54):
into more rural parts of thestate and, and suburban and even
urban, you know, you saw ahuge lack, a huge challenge for workforce
for law enforcement. You'vegot, you know, fewer people going
into the profession, you know,fewer, you know, many more, you know,
positions available. So we gotto make sure that we invest, you
(16:14):
know, if we want to have, youknow, real public safety, it costs
money. And we need to investin good training. We need to make
sure, you know, we're, we'repaying, giving our, our law enforcement
officials, our police therespect they deserve with good pay,
good benefits, good workingconditions. And, and that's going
to be the, the thing that Ifocus on as, as district attorney.
(16:37):
You have a huge platform tomake that case and drive it home.
And I think that's, that's aplace where Democrats can, can win
back a lot of these votersthat we've lost. And frankly, we've
lost a lot of voters,especially, you know, folks in the
center. And we got to showthat. We got to show, put, put our
money where our Mouth is andshow folks that we are the party
that stands with lawenforcement. And I think Donald Trump
(16:58):
is making that very easy forus. You know, he literally people
who, who beat up cops onJanuary 6th and let them out. Unbelievable
to me. And everything we'reseeing with a corrupt administration
in Washington shows exactlythe same contempt for law enforcement.
And it's about these budgetstoo. Don't tell me what you think.
(17:23):
Show me where it is in yourbudget. And Donald Trump's budget
is one that defunds the policeand it's going to make it much harder
to have good public safety inNorth Carolina and around the country.
Well, and one of the otherthings that we need to do is reinvigorate
the Democratic leadershipacross the state. And I, I hope you
will, you know, once you getyour feet under you and, and you've
(17:45):
started making things happenin wake. Well, maybe take some of
these other counties underyour wing and help, help get them
elect, help them electDemocrats again to some of these
county within some of these,you know, non urban urban counties.
Is that something you could help?
No, it's always been a bigpriority for me. You know, in the
last election I wasn't on theballot because of gerrymandering,
(18:07):
but I went all over the state,I raised over half a million dollars
for, for Democrats up and downthe ballot, going to continue doing
that. And I think the messagethat you have, David, is really simple
and really important here. Weneed to put Democrats on the ballot
everywhere. Even, even if youare listening to this and you know
it is a no win race, you arein super red, super red area. You
(18:28):
got to push that message out,you know, make people, you know,
answer for, for the work theydo. If they're in a, you know, a
competitive area, great. Ifit's a super Republican area, even
better. You got to get thatmessage out. And I think that that's
something that is going to bea part of our long term success.
But just getting people to runfor office and contest every race
(18:48):
and, and talk about issues is,is one of the first steps.
And when you were in Congress,you were a member of the Blue Dog
Coalition. And I'm justwondering, do you think that's, that's
where the party needs to,needs to be focused? I mean, it seems
like a lot of folks areconcerned that, you know, we've gotten
too far astray and to theextremes and maybe back towards the
(19:10):
middle. Is that, is that wherewe need to be looking?
You know, I think we need tobe just doing a Better job selling
our policies and talking aboutwhat we're really for. And, and it's,
it's a, it's a time where Ithink we have a real opportunity
there. You know, we are theparty of working families. I think
that's the message that hasgotten lost in so much of this in
(19:30):
Washington. And what I foundin a, in a, you know, very competitive
seat, I want a Republicanleaning seat, you know, is I found
like the biggest divide wasbecause of gerrymandering in Congress.
You had, it wasn't Democrat,Republican. It was safe seats versus
competitive seats. And thefolks who are in these very safe
seats, which again, you know,90, 95% of the seats in Congress
(19:51):
would kind of fall in thatcategory. We really just focused
on appealing to the far leftor the far right to win their Democrat
or Republican primaries. Andthere are fewer people, you know,
incentivized to really getthings done and work towards the
center. So, you know, we havegood messages, we have good messengers,
but you just hear so much fromthe, the, you know, the extremes.
And I think that's, that'swhat gerrymandering has done, you
(20:12):
know, in, in, you know, to, toharm that ability to communicate.
But we need folks talkingabout what we're going to do, you
know, to, to combat apresident who's total working families
in North Carolina and aroundthe country. And you were talking
about health care earlier inNorth Carolina is pretty simple.
This bill that Trump hassigned into law is going to mean
(20:33):
over 600,000 of our friendsand neighbors in North Carolina are
going to lose access to healthcare. That's a big deal and that's
one that we got to continuedriving home. We're the party that
supports working families andeverything that Donald Trump is doing
is all about supporting hisbillionaire buddies and CEOs at the
top.
Yeah, that's one of thearguments I've been making is I'd
(20:54):
like to see us redefine thisto where it's not. I mean, right
now it tends to be, you know,either a, you know, choice between
red and blue, either have an Rnext to your name or a D next to
your name. And people vote,you know, based on their perceived
interest. I think this oughtto be a contest between the rich
and the rest because on oneside you've got these policies that
(21:18):
are clearly, I mean, all thedata shows that the rich are getting
richer and the poor aregetting poor and the middle class
is disappearing. And we needto get that message across to folks
that if you're not One of therich, you know, if you're one of
the rest, the Republican Partyis not looking out for you and your
family. We are. And it seemslike, you know, it's a shame that
we, we've lost touch withworking class folks when we truly
(21:42):
are the party that has theirinterests at heart.
That's exactly right. Youknow, and we can talk policy after
policy where that, that playsout. But you know, one of the, that
I, I've spent time talkingabout and, and we're going to have
to in the next decade here isSocial Security. That's a place where
those, those same ideas playout exactly for folks in a way that
(22:02):
they can really understand andappreciate. You know, you've got
a cap. It's, it's just over160,000, I don't think exact number.
But once, once you, you makemore than that a year, you stop paying
into Social Security. Youknow, I had a bill in Congress that
would require those makingover 400,000 to start paying into
Social Security. There'sothers that have a million. But that's
(22:24):
a simple place where you canshow where you stand with your values.
And Social Security is goingto run out of money in the next decade
and we're going to have to dosomething. And it's what we are either
going to make, you know,millionaires and billionaires pay
their fair share or we'regoing to make people work two or
three years longer before theyget the benefits, the earned benefits
(22:44):
that they've paid into alltheir life. That's a place where
the exact stuff we're talkingabout is going to play out in a very
real way. And we get to showfolks you know where we stand. And
Republicans, I guarantee youtalk to any Republican, bring them
on the show, they, they aregoing to tell you they're not going
to have an answer for you onthis because they're never going
to raise taxes on millionaires.
(23:06):
Yeah, yeah, I did the math oneday because you know, if you're a
minimum wage worker atMcDonald's, you're paying, I forget
the exact rates, like 7.6%FICA tax that supports Social Security
and Medicare. But if you're,if you're Elon Musk and you're making
billions of dollars, it worksout to like.00003%. And that's just
(23:28):
not fair. We're not, you know,I don't think anybody's arguing to
soak the rich, but it's aboutdamn time. They pay their fair share.
That's it. Exactly. And, andwhat you're seeing is, is the super
wealthy, you know, continue topay much less than, you know, the,
the, you know, the, the peoplewho support them at their companies.
You know, you've got a, youknow, personal assistant, a secretary
(23:51):
or receptionist at a, at amajor company. They, they pay more
taxes as a percentage of theirincome than, than the CEOs. Over
and over and over. You seethat, and it's just wrong.
Hey, let me ask about a coupleother legal issues. You know, one
that, you know, everybody'stalking about right now is what happened
with Jimmy Kimmel, you know,getting ABC electing to end his show,
(24:11):
you know, after beingpressured by Trump and the head of
the fcc. It seems like, youknow, the times we're living in where
we have American troops andAmerican cities intimidating people,
where we have comediansgetting fired, you know, for making
jokes, you know, it's hard toimagine this is America.
(24:33):
This is a really dangeroustime. You know, I'm encouraged, though,
by voters of all, you know,who support all the political parties,
Democrats, Republicans,Independents, who are as upset at
what they're seeing out ofTrump in Washington. The midterms
give us a chance to reallyshow where the country stands on
this. He's not representing,you know, mainstream values in Washington.
(24:58):
And this is a chilling attackon free speech. And, you know, I
think for anybody trying tomake sense of it, I think what Jimmy
Kimmel said wasn't the reasonhe was fired. He was fired because
Donald Trump pressured theparent companies and would have cost
them millions, if not billionsby blocking a merger if they didn't
(25:18):
get rid of him. And that'spretty scary because the reason that
his show was canceled wasbecause of what he said over and
over, not what he said in onenight, but what he said about Trump
every night. And now we'velost that voice on, you know, abc.
And I think you're going tosee news organizations and, you know,
(25:42):
media companies and talk showschange the way they talk because
of it, and that's really badfor democracy.
Yeah. I'm hoping Kim willsues. You may be familiar with the.
There's a case the SupremeCourt decided in May of last year,
National Rifle associationversus Volo. And it was a case where
the nra, it was a stateregulator who was putting pressure
(26:05):
on companies, not, I think itwas insurance policies that the NRA
was, you know, hawking. Andthey were putting pressure on companies
not to, to do business, youknow, with the NRA in a unanimous
decision. I mean, it's rareyet The Supreme Court all to agree
on an issue, but a unanimousdecision written by Justice Sotomayor,
(26:27):
in which every conservativejustice agreed, said that that was
a violation of the FirstAmendment. This indirect, you know,
this threat of bad things canhappen to you if you don't silence
political speech. So I'mhoping Kimmel sues. I mean, I think
the Supreme Court would have ahard time tap dancing around a 90
(26:49):
decision that just came outfor, but 15 months ago.
Yeah, no, I think like, likeme and everybody else, we're just
kind of holding our breath tosee what he does next. I, I, you
know, I'm, I'm, I'm hopefulthat, you know, he continues to,
to stay out there. I, I likethis show a lot. I thought it was
pretty funny.
Yeah.
And, you know, I can't imaginethat they could ever replace him
(27:12):
with anybody that, that wouldbe the same.
Right. I'm curious, too, whatyour take is on, you know, Trump
saying he's going to designateAntifa as a, a domestic terrorism
group, you know, during hislast term is his director of the
FBI said that, you know,Antifa really hitting the group.
It's an ideology. So to me, itseems like this is more show over
(27:34):
substance. But what's yourtake on this?
Yeah, I think it is. And, andthat's how Trump continues to just
dominate the, the news cycleevery day. He eats up all the oxygen.
And, and that's the problemfor Democrats is, you know, we can't
get a word in edgewisebecause, you know, as President,
he's doing 20 different thingsevery day, and we're just struggling
(27:55):
to keep up with it. But thisis, is, is one of it, you know, is
just more of the same. Youknow, my, my hope is that folks will
dig in more onto the policyside and see how that really affects
them in their daily lives.These tariffs are horrible. You know,
you go to the grocery storeand you can see item after item that's,
that's just gone through theroof. So I think on all of these
(28:18):
fronts, it's going to catch upwith him. You know, this is not a
president who's governing for,for all Americans. You know, he's,
he is, is someone that, thathas has strayed so far from where
even, you know, Republicans,you know, you know, you look back
at George W. Bush and GeorgeH.W. bush and, you know, he's doing
(28:38):
things that they would neverthink of doing.
So, Wiley, how do you win thisrace? What's important? Obviously,
wileynickel.com folks candonate, but what's your strategy
to separate yourself from theother two opponents?
You know, just continue totalk about the, the work that I did
as a state senator, as inCongress, as an Obama staffer, and
what I want to do for Wakecounty getting out with a positive
(29:00):
message. I'm going to be goingall over Wake county, and I hope
folks will be interested inthis race and, and check us out again@wileynickel.com
which is my website. But, youknow, I think that politics is pretty
simple. Just put out apositive message and work real hard
to talk to the voters andyou're going to be successful. So
on that level, I think we'reoff to a great start and just excited
(29:23):
to continue the work I startedin Congress and really kind of to
tie this back to what we weretalking about before, too. The courts
really are a place where we'reseeing a lot of good work fighting
back to, against DonaldTrump's administration and their
overreach. Whether it'sAttorney General Jeff Jackson, you
know, or other, other actorsin our state, this is a place where
(29:46):
we need to make sure we'reelecting Democrats to stand up for
our values. That's going to bea big part of my campaign as well.
Good, good, well. And, and weall love Jeff Jackson, and I think
you served with him in theSenate, and I think that's important,
too, that you've got a goodrelationship with the Attorney General
of the entire state and youguys can coordinate certain law enforcement
(30:07):
actions and show, show thisstate again that Democrats are just
as tough on criminals and moreimportantly, support law enforcement
officers and the concept ofactually the law in this state. Because
there's, you know, a lot ofpeople, including our president,
(30:27):
that don't seem to believethat the law is that important anymore.
So one last question. Yousound good. You look excited. You
look like you're pumped andready to move. I think having the
Roy Cooper hanging over orpotentially getting in maybe made
you a little tentative in thelast, last podcast we had with you.
(30:50):
But I, I, I really hope folkswill go to wileynickel.com and check
out Wiley's page. Backgroundhis lovely family. Consider giving
him a couple dollars for hiscampaign. But I've got one last question
for you, Wiley, and then we'llcall today the DA's. If the DA's
office had a big neon signover the front door, which would
(31:12):
you pick? Justice for All OrB, Play stupid games, Win Stupid
prizes. Or C, we've got thereceipts. Which one is it?
Justice for? All.
Right, well, I I kind ofsuspected that would be the one.
But I was hoping you would gofor the stupid game, stupid prizes
(31:35):
because that would be funactually to see in law.
Well, I, I am looking forthat, that prize of the, of the mucky
jacket when I can come.
Oh, he's going back to themucky jacket.
All right.
We're gonna have to raise some money.
Or a T shirt. I would take a Tshirt too, but you know, you don't
have to go full jacket.
You know, the people thatlisten to the podcast don't get to,
(31:58):
I mean, you've seen David andI and you know what high fashion
individuals we are. So our,our fashion consultants are busy
working on that jacket right now.
All right, Wiley, well, bestof luck and we'll have you back for
the fourth and maybe I'll,we'll delay your fifth until we actually
raise some money to cover thatT shirt. But thanks again for joining
(32:20):
us, Wiley. That's it for thisepisode of Muck.
Cue.
Thanks again to my co hostColonel Mo Davis and to Congressman
Wiley Nichol for joining us ashe takes on the fight to be the next
Wake County District attorney.Thank you also to Alicia on Wiley's
staff. We'll be watchingWiley's race closely. Until next
time, I'm David Wheeler,member of maga. Starts bothering
(32:42):
you, just turn to him and say,muck you.
This has been Muck you, cohosted by Colonel Mo Davis in Asheville
and David Wheeler in SprucePine, North Carolina. Thanks to our
guest today, the honorableWiley Nichol, former member of Congress
and current candidate for WakeCounty District Attorney. Learn more
about Wiley and donate to hiscampaign@wileynickell.com Mucky was
(33:07):
produced by AmericanMuckrakers. Copyright 2025. Listen
to additional episodes withErrol Musk, Anthony Scaramucci, Paul
Begala, Mark McKinnon andothers@AmericanMokrakers.com Please
subscribe and support our workon Substack. Thanks for listening
and y' all come back for thenext episode of Muck.
(33:28):
U.
Know who made it.
Sa.
(33:59):
It. You know who made it.
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