December 15, 2025 • 45 mins
Have you ever wondered how doctors do their own healthcare? Or how they talk to their friends about healthcare in their living room? Our guest today is David Berg, who shares with us how he saw a difference between how he and his wife did healthcare in their living room versus in their office. He shares his journey about how he decided to do something about it in our episode today.
TODAY'S WIN-WIN:
Starting with a different question can lead to finding different solutions.
LINKS FROM THE EPISODE:
- Schedule your free franchise consultation with Big Sky Franchise Team: https://bigskyfranchiseteam.com/.
- You can visit our guest's website at: www.redirecthealth.com
- Attend our Franchise Sales Training Workshop:
- https://bigskyfranchiseteam.com/franchisesalestraining/
- Connect with our guests on social:
- David.berg@redirecthealth.com
- Get a copy of our guest's book: CLICK HERE.
ABOUT OUR GUEST:
David Berg is the CEO and Co-Founder of Redirect Health a digital health platform that manages employers' health plans and lowers costs. Finalist for 3 best-in-class awards at the World Health Care Congress in Washington, DC. Winner of the Phoenix Business Journal's Health Care Innovator Award. Author of "Business Owner’s Guide to ENDING THE FIGHT WITH HEALTHCARE."
ABOUT BIG SKY FRANCHISE TEAM:
This episode is powered by Big Sky Franchise Team. If you are ready to talk about franchising your business you can schedule your free, no-obligation, franchise consultation online at: https://bigskyfranchiseteam.com/.
The information provided in this podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and should not be considered financial, legal, or professional advice. Always consult with a qualified professional before making any business decisions. The views and opinions expressed by guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of the host, Big Sky Franchise Team, or our affiliates. Additionally, this podcast may feature sponsors or advertisers, but any mention of products or services does not constitute an endorsement. Please do your own research before making any purchasing or business decisions.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Tom DuFore (00:01):
Welcome to the Multiply Your Success podcast,
where each week we helpgrowth-minded entrepreneurs and
franchise leaders take the nextstep in their expansion journey.
I'm your host, Tom Dufour, CEOof Big Sky Franchise Team.
And as we open today, I'mwondering if you ever wondered
how doctors do their own healthcare and if it might be
different from what you do?
(00:22):
Or how do doctors talk to theirfriends about health care in
their living room?
Well, our guest today is DavidBerg, who shares with us how he
saw a difference between how heand his wife did health care in
their living room versus intheir office.
And he shares his journey abouthow he decided to do something
(00:43):
about it in our episode today.
Now, David is the CEO andco-founder of Redirect Health, a
digital health platform thatmanages employers, health plans,
and lowers costs.
They've been a finalist forthree best in class awards at
the World Healthcare Congress inWashington, D.C.
and winner of the PhoenixBusiness Journal's Healthcare
Innovator Award, and he's theauthor of Business Owner's Guide
(01:06):
to Ending the Fight withHealthcare.
You're going to love thisinterview, so let's go ahead and
jump right into it.
Dr. David Berg (01:12):
Thank you.
And I'm so happy to be here.
Thank you for having me, Tom.
So, you know, my wife's aphysician, also, and we moved
from Toronto, Ontario in 1985 toPhoenix, and we had to figure
it out as immigrants in thehealthcare system.
We did, took us about 10 years,and we figured out it's pretty
easy to make money here.
But it was really hard.
But we also learned thatthere's some huge differences
(01:34):
between the United States andCanada.
And one of the biggest ones wasalthough the United States has
much superior health care thanin Canada, access to it, and
it's so much better here.
Everybody in the world, ifthey're wealthy enough, will
want to come to America if theyhave a serious enough health
condition.
So this is the best healthcarein the world.
Let's not like even debatethat.
That's not saying Canada isterrible or bad.
(01:56):
I'm just saying US is very,very good.
And that was obvious to usright away.
But here's what was alsoobvious to us.
In Canada, with that less thanAmerican healthcare, there was
incredible peace of mind thatthe populace had when they were
healthy, that if they needed thesystem, it would be there for
incredible peace of mind.
But when I moved to the UnitedStates, it was so eye-opening at
(02:18):
the lack of peace of mind thatAmerican citizens had for this
great health care that they had.
So people were just afraid ofit.
And they were afraid of thecomplexity, it seemed, they were
afraid of the cost, the unknowncost, how many times will I
have to miss work and bouncearound the system?
I mean, it was, it was, therewas a lot of anxiety over it.
I was never used to that as aCanadian, that level of anxiety
(02:40):
on help for healthy people aboutif I had to, if I have to, if I
have to, if my daughter gets afever, if my son breaks his arm,
if my husband gets cancer, likejust like the anxiety of around
access affordability.
And I saw that in 1995 when Imoved here.
It was weird, really weird.
It became uh harder to toleratewhen we were making really good
(03:01):
money in a healthcare industry.
We owned multi-specialtyclinics, all over Phoenix and
surgery centers.
We got really good at managingthe insurance system and the
following the rules andunderstanding what the rules
were.
And it was easy to makeprofits.
It's harder now, it was easierthen in clinics.
But the thing I never could getclose to was how can I relieve
that anxiety of my own hourlyordinary workers?
(03:24):
I couldn't relieve it.
I couldn't figure it out.
And I couldn't make itaffordable enough for me to
subsidize.
And even if I did oversubsidizeit, they still had the anxiety.
I recognize it being a uniquelyAmerican issue that we didn't
experience in Canada.
But then, and it made it reallyhard for me to um hire, let's
say, $14, $15 an hour employees.
(03:45):
This is back in like 2005,2006.
And we had, I had, I found thatmy best employees were going to
work for larger companies.
Honeywell, American Express,Discovery Card were down the
road, and they had betterbenefits.
They had lower deductibles.
They could afford more.
They subsidized it more for thewhole family.
And I'd lose my best employees.
And it just made sense for themto leave me.
So I had a problem in mycompany.
(04:07):
So I decided I'm going to solvethis problem.
And I went at it for about ninemonths, 10 months, and I could
not solve it.
I could not solve it.
And then I noticed somethingthat was in front of me the
whole time.
And I'm sure a lot of yourlisteners can have experienced
this too, where the answer isright there or the inspiration
for the answer is right there infront of them.
But what I noticed is that myfamily, my family, with two
(04:30):
doctors, had incredible peace ofmind around the U.S.
healthcare system.
Incredible peace of mind.
I also noticed that ourneighbors who had access to us
had incredible peace of mind.
And I also noticed that ourfamilies back in Canada, because
they had access to us in atelephone through a telephone,
had incredible peace of mindbecause they had access to us.
So I started, that was weird,right?
(04:51):
And I started noticing that thethings that we would recommend
to our family and our friendsand our neighbors and our
neighbors' moms and dads thatlived in other states, how we
would help them and create thatpeace of mind around access and
affordability of healthcare wasso different than if they had
stepped in our clinic.
And that was a little strangefor me.
(05:12):
Like, how is it that myself andmy wife, if you came to visit
us in our living room or overthe telephone while we're
sitting in our living room orour kitchen, we would recommend
something that was so polaropposite than if you came into
our clinic.
And I know that sounds weird.
The healthcare would be thesame, but the focus would be
different.
Right.
So for instance, if you cameinto our clinic, the focus is
(05:33):
going to be on coverage, gonnabe on who's your insurance, what
are the authorization rules,what are the codes we have to
use to get paid?
How do we make sure that youyou stay a network and you don't
get a bill that makes you mador bankrupts you?
Right.
So all the thinking, theinitial thinking was around
coverage.
When you were in our livingroom or we're talking to you
from our living room, we didn'tthink about that.
(05:54):
All we thought about is what doyou need?
What do you need?
What's the care that's needed?
And how are we going to deliverit?
What are the logistics of it?
So I saw the starting place formy living room being what care
do you need?
And what are the logistics ofgetting it?
Logistics meaning urgency,time, timing, right?
Today.
Do you need it right now, or doyou need it tomorrow, or do you
need it next week?
(06:14):
Or can we wait till tomorrowand re-ass like just go
overnight so you feel better andsee if you feel and make a new
decision tomorrow?
Do you need an MRI?
Do you need an X-ray?
That's that's the logistics.
You need imaging.
We need to look at it.
But what level do you need?
Do you need to go to theemergency room right now, or can
we wait till tomorrow and go toa freestanding?
And what we learned in our ownin our own families and in our
(06:34):
neighbors' families, et cetera,regardless of their in a
different country, is that thecost of health care, which was a
big part of the robber of peaceof mind here in America, but it
was it was controlled bylogistics, right?
The cost of how we deliver thecare was more important than
what care you needed.
I mean, you you need yourappendix out.
I get it.
So you need surgery, that's thehealth care you need.
(06:57):
But you need to can you bedriven to the hospital by your
by your wife, or do you need totake an ambulance to the
hospital?
Two remarkably different costs.
That's logistics.
Transportation is logistics.
Or do we need an air ambulanceto land on your front lawn and
take you to the helicopter padat the hospital?
That's another level oflogistics.
(07:17):
The cost of that appendixsurgery has very little to do
with the surgery, has a lot todo with the logistics.
A lot to do with logistics.
And we've seen that, we sawthat in our own families too,
with medications, where the costof a medication in a capsule,
10 milligrams of lecinopril in aretail grocery store or retail
pharmacy, sorry, would be 200,three, call it $300 a month.
(07:41):
But that same medication in atablet, not a capsule,
logistics, right?
Form of medication, samemedication, just logistics, but
in a grocery store pharmacyinstead of a retail pharmacy,
right?
Grocery store pharmacy.
That's a logistics location.
The difference could be $280 amonth or $2 a month, $3,400 a
year or $24 a year.
(08:02):
Tremendously different.
And if you'd solve for thelogistics many times, almost
most of the time, I don't evenknow that.
I haven't measured it.
But if you get the logisticsright, you can get the cost so
low, it really doesn't matterwho's going to pay for it.
But when you come to our, andthat's what happens in our
living room, but you come to ourclinics and every clinic in the
in the country, we focus onwho's going to pay for it, who's
(08:24):
going to pay for it, what's thecoverage, what are the rules.
And then we figure out a lot oftimes logistics don't matter
because the the uh who's gonnapay for it party, they control
logistics.
So it does nobody is used tothinking about logistics.
And it struck me as when Istarted talking to other friends
who are doctors or insiders, itcould be the people who knew
(08:45):
doctors, right?
They're an insider.
My neighbor is an insiderbecause they could call my wife.
We all did it the same way.
We all started with, what doyou need?
And what are the logistics?
And all of us would tell youthat if you were in my office,
I'd have to do somethingdifferent.
I had to start with who's gonnapay for it.
And then that meant removes thelogistical considerations
because the who's gonna pay forit decides, which then I removed
(09:06):
the opportunity to get that,what you need down to close to
free if possible.
But I noticed that that thatwas I was seeing that in my own
family.
And then so what I how I solvedit was I reproduced that for my
business family.
And I never for a secondthought that it would give me
the advantages it did, but itimmediately gave me a hiring
(09:27):
advantage because I can nowlower my healthcare costs in
half and I could now say freehealthcare, my job ads.
Huge game changer for me.
No longer could Honeywell orAmerican Express or Discovery
Card easily take my employees byhaving a better benefit level.
Because I was saying free.
And they didn't they didn'tneed to say free, and but I was
saying free to hold on to myemployees, and then I could
(09:48):
attract the best people.
And it was harder to, and andbecause I've attracted a bunch
of people who appreciated it,and our company mission of
helping our employees have thatpeace of mind around access and
affordable health care.
Now now we got we got at theirhearts, not just at their
wallets and their purses and youknow the logical part of their
brain, but we got at theirhearts because we cared about
(10:09):
them.
And we showed it by giving themthat peace of mind and
relieving that anxiety aroundwhat happens if my daughter has
a fever, my son breaks his arm,my husband gets cancer.
We we alleviated that anxietybest we could for healthy
people.
I get it.
When you're unhealthy, you'regonna be anxious.
When you're healthy, there's noreason you should be anxious.
You should have incrediblepeace of mind when you're
(10:30):
healthy.
You shouldn't be afraid of theAmerican healthcare system.
So we did that in our business.
We found that we saved a lot ofmoney, which meant we could
provide free healthcare toeverybody in our company.
Very similar to the peace ofmind that we wanted.
Most people are healthy.
We wanted that peace of mind inour business, like we
experienced in Canada.
Other people started noticingour employees were we were
(10:50):
getting thousands ofapplications for employees,
thousands.
So even today, I would beshocked if we don't get 20,000 a
year of unsolicitedapplications to work at redirect
out.
But people started noticing.
We had some friends during therecession of 2009, 10 who were
getting in trouble with theirbusinesses, like many.
So we started helping themalleviate this healthcare
problem just by extending our,you know, that's this family.
(11:13):
Like, let's bring them into thefamily, let's help them.
And uh the system was evolvingat this time.
One of them was the mayor ofPhoenix, Paul Johnson, and he
had run the city of Phoenix,14,000 employees.
So he was very familiar withsome of the legal structures and
the complexity of it.
But now he had a home buildingcompany and his brother had a
drywall company, so they stilldo.
And uh, we helped them and itworked incredibly.
(11:36):
And then Paul convinced mewithin about the next two years
that, hey, you got a this is sovaluable.
This should be a serviceoffering, a product offering in
your business.
Instead of that, we created anew business together.
We were just gonna do Arizonaat first.
It turned out that it waswildly successful.
And now since 2018, we've beenin all 50 states.
(11:56):
I'll fast track a bit.
I know I made the story alittle long, but in 2021, we
turned it into a platform sothat others could start building
their healthcare products onour platform and have and extend
that concept of peace of mindthrough what do you need and how
you're gonna do it and accessthat's very similar to what a
(12:16):
doctor would do in their livingroom.
I know it could sound trite,but it's so important to
understand that what doctors dofrom their living room is so
different than what they do,including me, in an office.
The system demands somethingout of our offices.
The system that we've createdfor ourselves outside of our
offices is tremendouslydifferent and has a lot more
(12:37):
common sense and it's a lot lesscostly.
I was when I looked at my ownfamily, I would assess that I
would our family would seedoctors about tenth as much as
what we would recommend topeople if they were in our
office.
And a big reason would be if I,if your dad saw me in my
clinic, my office, I would haveto check the insurance.
And I say I wanted to send to acardiologist, I would have to
(12:58):
figure out the authorizationrules.
I'd have to figure out the whoI could send them to, and then
I'd have to send them there, andthen I'd have to, it might take
three months, and maybe theyneed some diagnostics I've got
to manage when they get there.
And then when they get there,I'm gonna get consult notes with
and I got now, I got to sort itout as the uh primary care
provider.
But if your dad came to my myliving room, I mean, I'm not
(13:20):
gonna do any of that.
I'm gonna say, if I think heneeds a cardiologist, I'm gonna
call my buddy who's acardiologist and go, here's what
I'm dealing with.
What kind of diagnostic testingwould you recommend?
Here's the medication thisgentleman's on.
Does that make sense?
Do you think he needs anappointment right now?
Or was there something we cantry first and then see how it
works?
And then we can make theappointment in three months,
which is when your dad was goingto get it anyway.
(13:42):
But at least we can get startedon it and maybe he gets better
and doesn't need the appointmentin three months.
You see the difference?
All I did is I put that into aplatform and surround it with
data and technology andlicensing.
And um, it's quite complex, thesystem we've created, but it's
solving that very, very simpleproblem of access and
affordability and peace of mindthat come with it for Americans
(14:05):
that are ordinary wage earnersin main and lots of times in
small businesses and franchises.
Tom DuFore (14:11):
This problem just seems, from my experience in
working with our clients andtalking with thousands of small
businesses over the many yearsof doing what I do, almost all
of them have shared a similarstruggle about benefits, health
care.
They want to be able to offer asolution to their staff and to
their team members, but theability for them either doesn't
(14:34):
exist because they're too small,or it's just too costly.
And the quality of care thatthey'd be able to offer just
isn't that great of an option.
So I'd love for you to talk alittle bit about how you have
now taken that.
You started going down thispathway with the platform and a
solution for other smallbusinesses and now working with
(14:54):
franchisors to provide somesolutions.
You made a great point.
Dr. David Berg (14:59):
We had a problem ourselves, and it happened to
be the same problem everyAmerican business has,
particularly small business.
It's not a new problem.
We created a solution.
And we did, yes, we created asolution with original thinking,
thinking that it wasn'thappening yet in the commercial
sense.
However, it was inspired bythinking that was just common
sense that every doctor isalready doing in their living
(15:21):
room, as I said, or theirkitchen or on the phone.
Right.
So it's it's the originalthinking was turning it into a
commercial thing, or to actuallyput it live for my own
employees, extending my family.
But then we turned it into aplatform.
And the the reason we did thatwas in 2000, end of 2020, if you
remember, COVID was veryuncertain.
(15:43):
And we were very worried aboutour customers.
And our average sized customerwas probably around 10
employees.
That was our average sizedcustomer.
And really, we were doing aservice for them, very similar
to what I described.
But we got to 2020, I'mthinking, and especially in the
restaurant industry, we saw likeincredible pain for the
(16:03):
business owners and a lot of ourbusiness owners.
And we during COVID, you you'veexperienced it.
Everyone still remembers it asrecent enough.
But I made this now as a newopportunity, my new problem.
My employees or my customer, Iwasn't worried about them being
able to stay in business and beable to buy our services.
But I saw as an opportunityalso to build on top of what we
(16:23):
had already created, a platformto change the mindset from we're
providing a service to let'sperform, let's create a platform
that we can build a health planon.
So we can partner with aninsurance company, partner with
a cost share, partner with, sowe we've got two insurance
companies and a cost share, sothree risk pools carriers that
have built plans on top of ourplatform.
(16:43):
And it makes them much lessexpensive and it makes our
platform easier to get topeople.
We also created a brokeragethat allows us to create plans
and collect premiums and helpother brokers through this new
model.
We created a third-partyadministration company on our
platform, which allows us tohold fiduciary custodian claims
account that our carrierpartners would entrust with us,
(17:05):
and then to pay doctors.
And it allows us to innovate onthe payment of doctors.
We understand because we weredoctors, we are doctors, we own
clinics, how important speed andcertainty of payment is in
getting cooperation and gettingthat part out of the way for
them so they can focus on whatdo you need and what are the
logistics.
We do the logistics, they tellus what they need.
And that way we can get thecoverage piece that I mentioned
(17:26):
in the initial problem out ofthe way.
Hey, let's just prepay you.
Let's just, let's, let's,let's, let's pay you tomorrow.
Let's pay, and we createdinnovative systems with JP
Morgan Chase to connect to thefiduciary accounts that nobody
else has created.
But these are opportunitiesthat we went with in original
thinking that we went withbecause we had we're stacking on
top of things, successes we'vealready had.
(17:48):
But the platform idea reallywas the thing that blew
everything up for us.
And we also build a pharmacy ontop of our platform that and a
pharmacy benefit managementcompany on top of our platform.
And now we've built ReefHealth, which is a franchise on
top of our platform led by MattHale and Jesse Curry, who were
(18:08):
instrumental in the joint andmassage envy's success.
I'm instrumental in it.
So these are these are peoplethat are building a franchise to
help other franchisees solvethis healthcare problem on our
platform.
So the expanse, the the Icannot, I've I've where I could
have imagined it before as aservice, like where the end was
(18:30):
or how big it could be.
Now, as a platform, I cannotimagine the end.
I can't imagine it.
It's every time I think I'mgetting close to it, there's a
new nothing, some somebody, anew level of uh or of value we
can create, uh, anxiety that wecan relieve, or more certainty
we can give with respect to theeveryday ordinary wage earner
(18:51):
being able to confidently knowthat they can access and afford
the best healthcare in theworld.
If I were to summarize, is wehad a problem we had to solve as
immigrants to America.
We solved it for ourselves,other people saw it, they wanted
it.
We helped them, and we're thecool kids in the block for a
long time when we were solvingthis problem for our friends'
company.
We were the I like being thecool kid.
(19:13):
I'm not used to being the coolkid and the thing that I'm, you
know, world class at and gettingmy peer group to appreciate it.
And then we, with the mayor ofPhoenix, Paul Johnson, we
decided we're gonna go be theheroes to uh entrepreneurs and
small business owners all overArizona.
And that turned into all overthe country.
But then it turned into anability to solve a business
(19:34):
problem because of COVID byparlaying the successes we
already had.
And now it's it's turned intoum a platform that's got others
participating, other reallysmart, capable, driven, mission
driven people, whether it's atan insurance company or at Reef,
saying, let's take this alittle bit further.
So it started to grow, it'sgrown into something way beyond
(19:54):
what my wife and I and PaulJohnson uh ever imagined when we
started.
Tom DuFore (19:58):
You're really creating.
Creating this new thinking asyou describe this, this is a bit
of a disruption to kind of thestatus quo and how things are
done.
And I'm sure over time you youwould bump into a closed door or
a wall along the way that youhad to figure out okay, well,
how do we help folks kind of seethis?
And I just wonder, is thereanything that kind of comes to
(20:21):
mind or an example or challengesyou saw as you started to grow
and go through that?
Dr. David Berg (20:27):
Yeah, let me start with this.
The people in the existinghealthcare system, by and large,
are really good people.
They really good hearts, butthey're in a bad system right
now.
It's a complex system.
There's a lot of hidden costs.
Time, money, attention, theattention suck is incredible.
So time it's a bad system.
(20:48):
Let's just start with it.
I'm gonna leave it at that.
It's a bad system.
We have some really good peoplein a bad system.
That shouldn't surprise us thatthe experience of people using
this bad system, regardless ofhow kind and good the people
are, is not going to be a greatexperience.
What we've sought out to do wasto create a different system.
But it's the system, reproducethe system that every doctor
(21:09):
already has created because it'ssuch common sense for their own
families and their extendedfamilies and their own live from
their own living rooms.
We just, we, we, we just let'sextend that to them.
And but it's it's really aboutthinking like a system.
We don't want to use theexisting healthcare system.
We do want to use thecomponents of it.
We do want to use the greatmedications, the great
technology, the great operatingroom, the great nurses, the
(21:32):
great doctors in the system, butwe don't want to use the
system.
We reject the system, but notthe people and the components in
it.
So we've created a system thatcan use those components.
And it's really, reallyimportant that we have to be
able with our platform tointeract with the existing
components of the ecosystem, notthe system, but the components
of it.
(21:52):
And that's a nuance.
A lot of people have told meI'm splitting hairs with that.
I think it's really importantto making it work.
But I've I've had somearguments over that for sure.
So I understand theabstractness of that.
Yes, there has been, there havebeen obstacles, many of them.
Most of them are with trying tofigure out how to use
components of the system withoutactually using the system,
(22:14):
particularly the billing part ofthe system, the perverse
incentives that are aroundbilling, and the perverse
incentives that are around thelogistics.
Whoever controls logisticscontrols the flow of money.
And when the money stops, theyalso control where the money
stops, and that's called profitusually.
Where the money stops is calledprofit.
But as it moves through, piecesget taken off.
(22:35):
And that's also somebody'srevenue and somebody's profit.
So we are continuallymonitoring and managing the
logistics of using thecomponents in the system.
So when we have experienced thesystem head on, it's because we
did not consider all the thingsthat are there.
We didn't do a good enough jobof not disrupting the system.
When we disrupt the system, itpushes back.
(22:58):
So I see disruption in adifferent way.
I'm not proud of disruption.
It's a necessary part of whatwe do, but we hit disruption.
I love collaboration.
Way that is way more pleasingto work in a situation of
collaboration than disruption,and especially for our
customers.
They do not want to be in afight with the ecosystem.
(23:18):
They want to be in acollaborative environment.
So that's our job.
So when we hit disruption, tous, that is evidence that we're
not doing it as well as we can.
We don't see it as let's createmore disruption.
We see it as, hey, let's tweaksomething, let's apply some more
original thinking, someexperiential thinking.
Let's, let's, you know, KobeBryant said it best.
(23:38):
He said he loves tough defense.
So we love tough defense too.
And when when we when the thethe ecosystem of healthcare
tells us, pushes back, we knowwe're starting to disrupt
something, some revenue flow orsome profit, we know that's
tough defense.
And we got to that'll help usget better.
So just like Kobe got and said,I love tough defense, we love
tough defense too.
(23:59):
And our goal is not to disrupt,it is to learn how to
collaborate.
And when we do that well, weare much more successful, and
our customer gets less anxiety,less more peace of mind around
accessing the great healthcarewe have in America.
Our biggest uh sales objectionis too good to be true.
How on earth can you do it forthat price and nobody else can?
(24:20):
And the answer always is it'sso obvious to me, but it's not
obvious to the outsiders.
Well, we couldn't do it for ourprice either if we started with
who's gonna pay for it.
No, we start with what do youneed and what are the logistics
around it, and what's the bestway to lower the cost of the
logistics and still get you thecare you need.
And if if anyone does that,which every doctor in their own
living room already does that,the costs go down tremendously.
(24:42):
So it's only because we do thatthat we can, and that that's
the only way we can even answerthe sales objection, too good to
be true.
The cost is too good to betrue, is with that.
Now, not everybody buys that,and we don't have the
opportunity to tell everybodythat story or to give people
that reason.
But my experience has been thatwhen I do give people that
reason, it's usually, yeah, butwe don't believe it's possible
(25:05):
to do it, even though we'redoing it.
It's it's not easy to believethe execution.
Tom DuFore (25:09):
As you've grown over the last and expanded over the
last 20 years now, where do yousee this going?
Dr. David Berg (25:16):
There's an element of when you have success
and you're building on top ofthe success, at some point you
start wondering, am I gettinggreedy right now?
Because I want now, I want alittle bit more.
And I never, I would have, I 10years ago, I said I would have
been, I couldn't even imaginebeing at the level we're at
right now or creating the impactwe're creating right now.
But then once once I get there,I'm sure you're the same.
I hope everybody's the same.
And I'm not the only one likethis, but I get greedy.
(25:37):
I want more of it.
And uh so I'm really I I cantell you, I am addicted to this
concept of peace of mind inpeople when they're healthy,
that they don't have to beafraid if they aren't healthy at
some point.
But I also want to create morepeace of mind in people who are
not healthy or sick or goingthrough the system.
But that's a hard one.
(25:58):
So it's about people who arehealthy, give them the peace of
mind that if something happens,I'm going to be okay.
And not that dissimilar to whatUber did with when my kids were
in college.
When I saw the Uber app and Isaw I could put my American
Express on it, and my kids nowhad the capability of never
having to get in a car if theywere even wondering if a friend
(26:22):
had been drinking or if it wassafe to drive or to go out in
the street by themselves.
Like that they always had thiscapability.
I can't even describe the peaceof mind I had.
And Uber, I don't know theyever intended that, that a dad
with a college-age child wouldbe able to put their credit card
on there and for no cost.
Like, of course, there's a costof them to use it, but there's
(26:44):
no cost to have the Uber appwith my credit card on it, to
have that peace of mind.
And it was, it was almostinstant for me.
As soon as my kids embraced itand they agreed, and it was my
money.
Hey, please, don't there'sdon't ever get in a car, don't
ever go outside, don't ever gosomebody somewhere you think you
feel a little unsafe.
Just me knowing they had thatcapability was incredible peace
(27:05):
of mind.
So I I've been thinking aboutthat for a long time, long time.
So I see a day where we're notin front of tens of thousands or
a couple hundreds of thousandsof people.
I see a day when we're in frontof tens of millions of people.
Not that dissimilar to how Goodor X has created a free way to
have incredible pricetransparency, or Uber app has
(27:27):
created an incredible way tohave transparent capability of
what's it cost to get from pointA to point B.
There's a peace of mind to bothof those companies that I'm
inspired by that I can see wecan do that at a for this
problem with Americanhealthcare.
Tom DuFore (27:43):
Speaking of being inspired, if someone is inspired
or interested in learning moreabout redirect health,
connecting with you, how cansomeone go about getting in
contact here?
Dr. David Berg (27:54):
We've created various products on our platform
and they're on our website,redirecthealth.com.
So you can learn about ourproducts there.
Probably, quite frankly, you'lllearn more about this podcast
about what's driving the pro theplatform inside the products
here.
You're not going to see this onthe on our website.
Our website is for the theproducts and our product
partners.
But my email is david.berg,B-E-R-G, like iceberg at
(28:17):
redirecthealth.com.
How would I be excited ifpeople were involved?
Number one is uh the morepeople that care about this
mission and are aware of thisproblem and understand that we
don't have to be anxious aboutaccessing and affordable
affording the best healthcare inthe world.
Maybe we're not because we'rean insider, because we know
(28:38):
somebody who can practicemedicine out of their living
room or on a telephone, but mostpeople aren't.
Most people with ordinaryhourly workers, hourly wage
earners, and or normal wageearners, there's a peace of mind
for them too.
So just understanding that andthat that's helpful to us is
just mission-oriented people andtalk about it.
That would be useful.
(28:59):
And if somebody wanted to uhput our plans in their business,
yes, that's a that's a home runfor us also.
But really where the massescan, I think that where this is
going to take off, the massesare going to participate, is
just by like just pushing backon this idea that I have to, I'm
healthy, but I have to beanxious about if I don't become
healthy because I might not beable to access, I might not be
(29:21):
able to afford the healthcaresystem that's in front of me
today.
Nobody has to feel that way.
I understand that most peopledo, but I also understand that
nobody has to.
Tom DuFore (29:31):
David, there's a great time in the show, and we
make a little transition and wemake sure we ask every guest the
same four questions before theygo.
And the first question we askis, have you had a miss or two
on your journey and somethingyou learned from it?
Dr. David Berg (29:44):
Oh my gosh, have I had a miss?
You mean have I had less than athousand misses?
I mean, there are misses everyday.
And the way I think about amiss is there's no plan that's
gonna work the first time.
And it's going to it maybe ittakes nine iterations, ten
iterations to get it right.
(30:04):
My thinking is, well, let's go,let's let's let's do something,
see what learn, iterate fast sowe can get to what's gonna work
the quickest.
I I know the first one's notgonna work.
Not when we're doing somethingthat nobody else has ever done.
There's a lot of figuring stuffout.
It's not about just doing whatsomebody else has done and doing
it better.
That might be a different game.
Most of our misses are about weare trying to do something that
(30:26):
nobody else has done with amission that nobody else is
going after.
And quite frankly, even thepeople who are in the middle of
it sometimes wonder if theyreally want to put their hearts
into this concept of we're gonnacreate peace of mind and
alleviate anxiety.
No, I'm a nurse, I'm here to dohealthcare, right?
Is a different level of caringabout it.
(30:47):
And anyone could participate inthat caring.
But the, you know, I thinkabout what we've built is really
a complex system.
And complex system theory anddesign and management plays a
big part in it.
And very many well-meaningpeople will try to tweak little
things thinking they're gonnamake it better, and nobody
notices until six months laterwhen the whole system is not
(31:08):
running as well.
It's like your car is a prettycomplex uh vehicle, and you can
change out the the carburetorand think, well, it's a better
carburetor, it should workbetter.
Maybe not.
I'm dating myself by sayingcarburetors because I don't even
know what they have right now.
I don't think we havecarburetors anymore.
But in the in the old days, youcouldn't just replace a
(31:28):
carburetor with a bettercarburetor and think the car is
going to work.
It has to fit together.
And so a lot of our misses arebecause it's such a complex
problem we're dealing with.
We have a complex answer to it,but it's a better complex
answer.
But we have to pay attention tohow we might disrupt it
inadvertently and how we mightdisrupt the existing ecosystem
(31:51):
inadvertently.
And that we have done it manytimes, so many times, where we
have done things that we thoughtwere well-meaning, and then the
existing ecosystem says, noway, there's no way you're gonna
do this.
You're gonna cost us.
I know you're gonna saveyourself $10,000, but you're
gonna cost us $100,000.
We're not gonna let you dothat.
So we have to figure out howto, you know, not disrupt the
(32:13):
system.
Tom DuFore (32:14):
Let's talk about the flip side of things.
We talk about a highlight or amake or a win or two that you'd
like to share.
Certainly you've talked aboutredirect health and and the
growth and things you've seen.
Is there another instance thatyou'd like to share?
Dr. David Berg (32:28):
Well, a place where we had huge success where
it wasn't so certain when westarted was during COVID.
But if you remember, there's alot of uncertainty for
everybody.
I mean, and so us our decisionto go from a service company to
a platform company and to startbuilding things on top of our
platform.
That was, as you can imagine,quite expensive.
And luckily we were profitablebefore that, so we could do it.
(32:50):
That was a decision that evenwhen I did it, I didn't know it
was the right decision.
I just knew that we we were hadto leave where we were and we
had to go somewhere different.
What was working pre-COVID wasnot going to work now.
That was obvious what theanswer was, turning into a
platform and going to companiesthat maybe had a much higher
(33:12):
spend with more employees andthe complexity of having brokers
in the mix of that too, andtrying to figure out how do we
build a brokerage, how do webuild a TPA, how do we build
insurance companies on top ofour platform.
So it all integrated together.
Remember, we're not just goingto be a carburetor and put it
into another car.
We had to make it integrate.
So big part of us building onour platform was so that the
(33:34):
integration would happennaturally.
And then lots of reusablebuilding blocks were created
during that time.
Things that fit together, likea carburetor via reusable
building block next to uh anengine, which is another
reusable building block, let'ssay, and then you got to make
them connect.
So we did a lot of that in uh2020, 2021, 2022, without
(33:57):
knowing if it was going to workor not.
And so it's turned out to be agreat success for us.
And it's uh I wouldn't go backnow, knowing what I know.
At the time, though, I got totell you, I didn't know it was
the right direction.
Tom DuFore (34:07):
The next question we ask, David, is have you used a
multiplier to multiply yourselfpersonally or professionally or
organizations you've run?
Dr. David Berg (34:16):
What you make me think of when you ask that
question is a coaching programI've been in for 25 years now.
So Dan Sullivan, a strategiccoach, has been my coach for 25
years now.
So I visit him every quarter atleast, sometimes more than
that.
He's really, really helped methink about my unique ability,
the thing that people count onme for for success, the thing
(34:37):
I'm world-class at, the thingthat I'm continually learning,
and the thing that I'm alwaysgetting better at.
And the persistence on it makesit such that nobody can keep up
with me with my unique ability.
So creating an organization andstructure around my life where
my unique ability is where I getto live, and attracting other
people with other uniqueabilities, so we can create a
(34:58):
unique ability team, if youwill, with a unique process for
a unique mission has been very,very helpful.
So that concept of uniqueability and really respecting it
in myself and in others and inprocess and in mission and
purpose, that has been uh a hugemultiplier.
And when I say huge, I don'tmean 10x or even 100x.
(35:19):
I don't even know how I canmeasure it.
I I would not be able to dowhat I was doing today without
that thinking that started 25years ago.
And and when I say 25 yearsago, it's still, I'm still
thinking about today.
I am still refining uh myunderstanding of my unique
ability, my each individual teammember's unique ability, the
uniqueness of our team of ourprocess and our mission because
(35:43):
of those unique abilities.
So it's it's it's I say call ita huge multiplier because I
don't see it ever ending.
I see it continue to stack andto multiply on top of itself to
the point where it's clearlyexponential.
It's not a linear addition gameanymore.
It is a multiplier.
Tom DuFore (36:01):
David, the final question we ask every guest is
what does success mean to you?
Dr. David Berg (36:06):
That's very broad success.
So I'm gonna give you a broadanswer.
I'm gonna say it has to do withfreedom.
And it was the reason why Icame from Canada, United States.
I just saw a freedom ofambition that was here that I
didn't was that that it was nothappening for me in Canada.
And that doesn't mean it's notthere in Canada.
I didn't have it and I didn'tknow how to find it when I was
(36:29):
younger, but I could find itimmediately in the United
States.
This freedom of ambition and ofdreaming bigger and original
thinking.
That wasn't as obviouslyembraced in Canada as it was
here.
So the concept of freedom,getting freedom that matters to
you, to me, that's success forme.
And whatever that could be, itcould be freedom of
relationship, freedom of havingenough money to do what I want,
(36:52):
freedom of hanging out with whoI want, freedom of purpose.
Oh my gosh, like that's a bigone.
To be able to say, I want toalleviate the anxiety and create
peace of mind around access tothe best healthcare in the world
for tens of millions ofAmericans.
That's a that's a veryambitious thing to say, but it's
a purpose and it's real.
The freedom to have thatpurpose and to be able to say it
(37:13):
here, that is to me, success isthat freedom to be able to have
the ambition you want, thepurpose you want, to have the
people in your life you want, tohave the money you want, to
have the dreams you want, tohave the happiness you want, to
have what you want.
Tom DuFore (37:28):
I love that.
And David, as we bring this toa close, is there anything you
were hoping to share or getacross that you haven't had a
chance to yet?
Dr. David Berg (37:36):
Well, this is a franchise show.
And it seems like we talkedvery little about franchise.
So, you know, when I thoughtabout this before, I was like,
okay, what's the main, like amain lesson or message or
something I want to leave withthe audience?
We haven't even come close totalking about it, which is which
is interesting to me because II I had this preconceived notion
that we're gonna talk aboutfranchising, of which I know
(37:57):
very little about.
So I had a little anxiety aboutthat.
I'm going, I am the last personto say there it have any kind
of expertise on franchising.
You know, you got me started inthis.
I had this idea and I came toyou to learn a little bit about
franchise.
And when we started, Tom, Ithought you were gonna teach me
everything I need to know aboutfranchise in about three hours,
maybe three days, maybe 30 days,maybe three months, and then I
(38:19):
would be able to go run with it.
And what I learned veryquickly, you got me there fast,
is the people who do this,they've got 20 years of
experience.
Just like I've got 20, 30 yearsof experience, 40 years now.
I started working in a mentalhospital 18, 19 years old.
So that's how far back inhealthcare I go.
But but you made me realizefast that this is a different
(38:39):
discipline.
This whole the franchisebusiness is different.
And that is why I went out andI got Matt Hale and I talked to
him about what I wanted to do.
And there's a little bit of catand mouse where he's trying to
avoid me a little bit, and I'mtrying to like get him in.
And it it's we got about ayear, and he's like, Okay, I get
it.
Let's do let's do this.
And then he brought in JesseCurry, who had very instrumental
(39:02):
in massage envy's success.
And then uh we got Pete, who Ithink you know, a bunch of
different brands too.
So I've seen Matt, Jesse, andPete with so much franchise
knowledge, it was even I realizenow how silly it was when I
came to you and said, teach meabout franchises.
I want to be a franchisor.
Like I want to build afranchise on our platform.
I realize now how silly it was.
(39:24):
If there is a lesson there forsomebody who might want a
franchise, is you can do ityourself, I'm sure.
That might be the slow boat.
There is a faster boat, whichis go partner with somebody who
has already done it, had thesuccesses, understands the
nuances, can make the pivots.
The thing I'm most impressedwith uh Jesse and Matt and Pete
is how fast they can make littlepivots.
(39:44):
I'd be I'd create a plan thatwould take me forever to create,
and I'd stay in that plan forfive years too long.
And and they're able to makelittle pivots because they're
they're they're experienced.
Tom DuFore (39:54):
The hope for today is what you shared.
I mean, you just have awonderful story and I also think
it's a great lesson for folksto hear that this doesn't just
happen overnight.
This was a journey to getthere.
It didn't just happen in 12months or 24 months.
Maybe the idea spawned andspurred and kind of came to you
(40:16):
and you had that vision, butit's taken time for it to start
being executed and to startexpanding and growing.
Dr. David Berg (40:24):
Yeah.
And you know, one of back toDan Sullivan in the coaching
I've had for the last 25 years.
Another part of that coachingis getting clear on the what's
fast so fascinating andmotivating.
You could easily see this as 25years, uh, a 25-year goal or
journey.
I'm well in, yeah, since Istarted with Dan 25 years ago,
and I am more fascinated andmotivated by this journey than
(40:46):
I've ever been.
But that's because I've beenintentional about it with Dan's
coaching.
And I've very been veryintentional about the things
that are draining and just orboring, and making sure that I'm
not getting too sucked up inthe draining and boring aspects
of life that other people findincredibly fascinating and
motivating and getting thepeople together so that there's
(41:08):
some things that are boring andirritating and annoying, you've
got to do.
But all those things have otherpeople who are just jazzed
about it.
I just, I'm just not.
I've been very, very fortunateto have that coaching, thinking,
coaching 25 years ago.
So when I'm thinking throughthis journey, I'm not thinking
about like I'm at any kind ofendpoint right now.
(41:29):
I'm thinking about I'm just atthe beginning of another journey
or in the middle of a journey.
And up to now, the last 25years has really been
preparation for my next 25years.
That's that's all it is.
And you know, I got a lot donein 25, you know, starting 25
years ago because of what I'ddone 20, you know, I'm not that
old to have done it that long,but you get you get my point?
(41:50):
Oh, yeah, absolutely.
Just at the beginning ofanother the continuation or
beginning of something muchbigger than what we've already
done.
I don't know how to get infront of tens of millions or
100, 100, 350 million Americans.
I have no idea how to do that.
I do know that uh I'm closerthan anybody else.
I want it more than anybodyelse.
And if I put that challenge outthere, because if I find
(42:11):
somebody who wants it more, weare gonna be best friends
immediately.
I am gonna get on an airplane,I'll be at their doorstep
tomorrow if I find somebody whowants what I want as much as I
want it.
I promise.
Tom DuFore (42:23):
Dr.
Berg, thank you so much forbeing a guest on our podcast.
And let's go ahead and jumpinto today's three key
takeaways.
Takeaway number one is when hetold the story about how he and
his wife are doctors and thatthe advice that they would give
their friends in their livingroom on their personal time was
different from the advice thatthey would give in their own
(42:46):
office.
And that is what led to theidea that eventually became
redirect health.
Takeaway number two, I reallyliked how he talked about using
creatively thinking to problemsolve.
He said a quote in theinterview where he said, we have
really good people in a badsystem.
And he used systems thinking tocreate a solution.
(43:07):
And he said, I reject thecurrent system, but not the
people in the system.
So he recognized really greatpeople there.
And so he said, let'scollaborate, let's work together
to help continue to refine thesystem.
Takeaway number three is whenhe talked about a miss.
And his miss was that he thinksabout misses all the time.
(43:31):
And he doesn't think of it as atotal miss.
Rather, he thinks that thefirst plan, when you're doing
something new or innovative orunique, the first plan is never
going to work the first go atit.
So you've got to just getstarted so that you can start
figuring it out and have lots oflittle misses, sometimes
(43:52):
medium-sized misses along theway.
And he said a lot of systemsare very complex and there's no
one size fits all simplesolution.
And that's what he's trying todo here.
He recognizes that thehealthcare industry is extremely
complex and there are a lot ofmoving parts.
So a simple solution is likelynot to work.
(44:13):
Now it's time for today'swin-win.
So today's win-win is sometimesstarting with uh a different
question leads to findingdifferent solutions.
And that's what Dr.
Berg and his co-founders didwhen they launched their
(44:34):
business right from thebeginning.
They started with the question,what do you need?
Or what does the customer orthe patient need instead of
who's going to pay for it?
And I thought that was abeautiful way of looking at it
because when they started withwhat do you need, it led him
down this pathway to startcreating a different way of
(44:56):
approaching the healthcaresystem.
And so the win-win is if youchange the question you're
asking, you might find differentideas that spur and create
different solutions.
And so that's the episodetoday, folks.
Please make sure you subscribeto the podcast and give us a
review.
And remember, if you or anyoneyou know might be ready to
franchise your business or taketheir franchise company to the
(45:18):
next level, please connect withus at BigSkyFranchise Team.com
where you can schedule your freeno obligation consultation.
Thanks for tuning in, and welook forward to having you back
next week.
Welcome to the Multiply Your Success podcast,
where each week we helpgrowth-minded entrepreneurs and
franchise leaders take the nextstep in their expansion journey.
I'm your host, Tom Dufour, CEOof Big Sky Franchise Team.
And as we open today, I'mwondering if you ever wondered
how doctors do their own healthcare and if it might be
different from what you do?
(00:22):
Or how do doctors talk to theirfriends about health care in
their living room?
Well, our guest today is DavidBerg, who shares with us how he
saw a difference between how heand his wife did health care in
their living room versus intheir office.
And he shares his journey abouthow he decided to do something
(00:43):
about it in our episode today.
Now, David is the CEO andco-founder of Redirect Health, a
digital health platform thatmanages employers, health plans,
and lowers costs.
They've been a finalist forthree best in class awards at
the World Healthcare Congress inWashington, D.C.
and winner of the PhoenixBusiness Journal's Healthcare
Innovator Award, and he's theauthor of Business Owner's Guide
(01:06):
to Ending the Fight withHealthcare.
You're going to love thisinterview, so let's go ahead and
jump right into it.
Dr. David Berg (01:12):
Thank you.
And I'm so happy to be here.
Thank you for having me, Tom.
So, you know, my wife's aphysician, also, and we moved
from Toronto, Ontario in 1985 toPhoenix, and we had to figure
it out as immigrants in thehealthcare system.
We did, took us about 10 years,and we figured out it's pretty
easy to make money here.
But it was really hard.
But we also learned thatthere's some huge differences
(01:34):
between the United States andCanada.
And one of the biggest ones wasalthough the United States has
much superior health care thanin Canada, access to it, and
it's so much better here.
Everybody in the world, ifthey're wealthy enough, will
want to come to America if theyhave a serious enough health
condition.
So this is the best healthcarein the world.
Let's not like even debatethat.
That's not saying Canada isterrible or bad.
(01:56):
I'm just saying US is very,very good.
And that was obvious to usright away.
But here's what was alsoobvious to us.
In Canada, with that less thanAmerican healthcare, there was
incredible peace of mind thatthe populace had when they were
healthy, that if they needed thesystem, it would be there for
incredible peace of mind.
But when I moved to the UnitedStates, it was so eye-opening at
(02:18):
the lack of peace of mind thatAmerican citizens had for this
great health care that they had.
So people were just afraid ofit.
And they were afraid of thecomplexity, it seemed, they were
afraid of the cost, the unknowncost, how many times will I
have to miss work and bouncearound the system?
I mean, it was, it was, therewas a lot of anxiety over it.
I was never used to that as aCanadian, that level of anxiety
(02:40):
on help for healthy people aboutif I had to, if I have to, if I
have to, if my daughter gets afever, if my son breaks his arm,
if my husband gets cancer, likejust like the anxiety of around
access affordability.
And I saw that in 1995 when Imoved here.
It was weird, really weird.
It became uh harder to toleratewhen we were making really good
(03:01):
money in a healthcare industry.
We owned multi-specialtyclinics, all over Phoenix and
surgery centers.
We got really good at managingthe insurance system and the
following the rules andunderstanding what the rules
were.
And it was easy to makeprofits.
It's harder now, it was easierthen in clinics.
But the thing I never could getclose to was how can I relieve
that anxiety of my own hourlyordinary workers?
(03:24):
I couldn't relieve it.
I couldn't figure it out.
And I couldn't make itaffordable enough for me to
subsidize.
And even if I did oversubsidizeit, they still had the anxiety.
I recognize it being a uniquelyAmerican issue that we didn't
experience in Canada.
But then, and it made it reallyhard for me to um hire, let's
say, $14, $15 an hour employees.
(03:45):
This is back in like 2005,2006.
And we had, I had, I found thatmy best employees were going to
work for larger companies.
Honeywell, American Express,Discovery Card were down the
road, and they had betterbenefits.
They had lower deductibles.
They could afford more.
They subsidized it more for thewhole family.
And I'd lose my best employees.
And it just made sense for themto leave me.
So I had a problem in mycompany.
(04:07):
So I decided I'm going to solvethis problem.
And I went at it for about ninemonths, 10 months, and I could
not solve it.
I could not solve it.
And then I noticed somethingthat was in front of me the
whole time.
And I'm sure a lot of yourlisteners can have experienced
this too, where the answer isright there or the inspiration
for the answer is right there infront of them.
But what I noticed is that myfamily, my family, with two
(04:30):
doctors, had incredible peace ofmind around the U.S.
healthcare system.
Incredible peace of mind.
I also noticed that ourneighbors who had access to us
had incredible peace of mind.
And I also noticed that ourfamilies back in Canada, because
they had access to us in atelephone through a telephone,
had incredible peace of mindbecause they had access to us.
So I started, that was weird,right?
(04:51):
And I started noticing that thethings that we would recommend
to our family and our friendsand our neighbors and our
neighbors' moms and dads thatlived in other states, how we
would help them and create thatpeace of mind around access and
affordability of healthcare wasso different than if they had
stepped in our clinic.
And that was a little strangefor me.
(05:12):
Like, how is it that myself andmy wife, if you came to visit
us in our living room or overthe telephone while we're
sitting in our living room orour kitchen, we would recommend
something that was so polaropposite than if you came into
our clinic.
And I know that sounds weird.
The healthcare would be thesame, but the focus would be
different.
Right.
So for instance, if you cameinto our clinic, the focus is
(05:33):
going to be on coverage, gonnabe on who's your insurance, what
are the authorization rules,what are the codes we have to
use to get paid?
How do we make sure that youyou stay a network and you don't
get a bill that makes you mador bankrupts you?
Right.
So all the thinking, theinitial thinking was around
coverage.
When you were in our livingroom or we're talking to you
from our living room, we didn'tthink about that.
(05:54):
All we thought about is what doyou need?
What do you need?
What's the care that's needed?
And how are we going to deliverit?
What are the logistics of it?
So I saw the starting place formy living room being what care
do you need?
And what are the logistics ofgetting it?
Logistics meaning urgency,time, timing, right?
Today.
Do you need it right now, or doyou need it tomorrow, or do you
need it next week?
(06:14):
Or can we wait till tomorrowand re-ass like just go
overnight so you feel better andsee if you feel and make a new
decision tomorrow?
Do you need an MRI?
Do you need an X-ray?
That's that's the logistics.
You need imaging.
We need to look at it.
But what level do you need?
Do you need to go to theemergency room right now, or can
we wait till tomorrow and go toa freestanding?
And what we learned in our ownin our own families and in our
(06:34):
neighbors' families, et cetera,regardless of their in a
different country, is that thecost of health care, which was a
big part of the robber of peaceof mind here in America, but it
was it was controlled bylogistics, right?
The cost of how we deliver thecare was more important than
what care you needed.
I mean, you you need yourappendix out.
I get it.
So you need surgery, that's thehealth care you need.
(06:57):
But you need to can you bedriven to the hospital by your
by your wife, or do you need totake an ambulance to the
hospital?
Two remarkably different costs.
That's logistics.
Transportation is logistics.
Or do we need an air ambulanceto land on your front lawn and
take you to the helicopter padat the hospital?
That's another level oflogistics.
(07:17):
The cost of that appendixsurgery has very little to do
with the surgery, has a lot todo with the logistics.
A lot to do with logistics.
And we've seen that, we sawthat in our own families too,
with medications, where the costof a medication in a capsule,
10 milligrams of lecinopril in aretail grocery store or retail
pharmacy, sorry, would be 200,three, call it $300 a month.
(07:41):
But that same medication in atablet, not a capsule,
logistics, right?
Form of medication, samemedication, just logistics, but
in a grocery store pharmacyinstead of a retail pharmacy,
right?
Grocery store pharmacy.
That's a logistics location.
The difference could be $280 amonth or $2 a month, $3,400 a
year or $24 a year.
(08:02):
Tremendously different.
And if you'd solve for thelogistics many times, almost
most of the time, I don't evenknow that.
I haven't measured it.
But if you get the logisticsright, you can get the cost so
low, it really doesn't matterwho's going to pay for it.
But when you come to our, andthat's what happens in our
living room, but you come to ourclinics and every clinic in the
in the country, we focus onwho's going to pay for it, who's
(08:24):
going to pay for it, what's thecoverage, what are the rules.
And then we figure out a lot oftimes logistics don't matter
because the the uh who's gonnapay for it party, they control
logistics.
So it does nobody is used tothinking about logistics.
And it struck me as when Istarted talking to other friends
who are doctors or insiders, itcould be the people who knew
(08:45):
doctors, right?
They're an insider.
My neighbor is an insiderbecause they could call my wife.
We all did it the same way.
We all started with, what doyou need?
And what are the logistics?
And all of us would tell youthat if you were in my office,
I'd have to do somethingdifferent.
I had to start with who's gonnapay for it.
And then that meant removes thelogistical considerations
because the who's gonna pay forit decides, which then I removed
(09:06):
the opportunity to get that,what you need down to close to
free if possible.
But I noticed that that thatwas I was seeing that in my own
family.
And then so what I how I solvedit was I reproduced that for my
business family.
And I never for a secondthought that it would give me
the advantages it did, but itimmediately gave me a hiring
(09:27):
advantage because I can nowlower my healthcare costs in
half and I could now say freehealthcare, my job ads.
Huge game changer for me.
No longer could Honeywell orAmerican Express or Discovery
Card easily take my employees byhaving a better benefit level.
Because I was saying free.
And they didn't they didn'tneed to say free, and but I was
saying free to hold on to myemployees, and then I could
(09:48):
attract the best people.
And it was harder to, and andbecause I've attracted a bunch
of people who appreciated it,and our company mission of
helping our employees have thatpeace of mind around access and
affordable health care.
Now now we got we got at theirhearts, not just at their
wallets and their purses and youknow the logical part of their
brain, but we got at theirhearts because we cared about
(10:09):
them.
And we showed it by giving themthat peace of mind and
relieving that anxiety aroundwhat happens if my daughter has
a fever, my son breaks his arm,my husband gets cancer.
We we alleviated that anxietybest we could for healthy
people.
I get it.
When you're unhealthy, you'regonna be anxious.
When you're healthy, there's noreason you should be anxious.
You should have incrediblepeace of mind when you're
(10:30):
healthy.
You shouldn't be afraid of theAmerican healthcare system.
So we did that in our business.
We found that we saved a lot ofmoney, which meant we could
provide free healthcare toeverybody in our company.
Very similar to the peace ofmind that we wanted.
Most people are healthy.
We wanted that peace of mind inour business, like we
experienced in Canada.
Other people started noticingour employees were we were
(10:50):
getting thousands ofapplications for employees,
thousands.
So even today, I would beshocked if we don't get 20,000 a
year of unsolicitedapplications to work at redirect
out.
But people started noticing.
We had some friends during therecession of 2009, 10 who were
getting in trouble with theirbusinesses, like many.
So we started helping themalleviate this healthcare
problem just by extending our,you know, that's this family.
(11:13):
Like, let's bring them into thefamily, let's help them.
And uh the system was evolvingat this time.
One of them was the mayor ofPhoenix, Paul Johnson, and he
had run the city of Phoenix,14,000 employees.
So he was very familiar withsome of the legal structures and
the complexity of it.
But now he had a home buildingcompany and his brother had a
drywall company, so they stilldo.
And uh, we helped them and itworked incredibly.
(11:36):
And then Paul convinced mewithin about the next two years
that, hey, you got a this is sovaluable.
This should be a serviceoffering, a product offering in
your business.
Instead of that, we created anew business together.
We were just gonna do Arizonaat first.
It turned out that it waswildly successful.
And now since 2018, we've beenin all 50 states.
(11:56):
I'll fast track a bit.
I know I made the story alittle long, but in 2021, we
turned it into a platform sothat others could start building
their healthcare products onour platform and have and extend
that concept of peace of mindthrough what do you need and how
you're gonna do it and accessthat's very similar to what a
(12:16):
doctor would do in their livingroom.
I know it could sound trite,but it's so important to
understand that what doctors dofrom their living room is so
different than what they do,including me, in an office.
The system demands somethingout of our offices.
The system that we've createdfor ourselves outside of our
offices is tremendouslydifferent and has a lot more
(12:37):
common sense and it's a lot lesscostly.
I was when I looked at my ownfamily, I would assess that I
would our family would seedoctors about tenth as much as
what we would recommend topeople if they were in our
office.
And a big reason would be if I,if your dad saw me in my
clinic, my office, I would haveto check the insurance.
And I say I wanted to send to acardiologist, I would have to
(12:58):
figure out the authorizationrules.
I'd have to figure out the whoI could send them to, and then
I'd have to send them there, andthen I'd have to, it might take
three months, and maybe theyneed some diagnostics I've got
to manage when they get there.
And then when they get there,I'm gonna get consult notes with
and I got now, I got to sort itout as the uh primary care
provider.
But if your dad came to my myliving room, I mean, I'm not
(13:20):
gonna do any of that.
I'm gonna say, if I think heneeds a cardiologist, I'm gonna
call my buddy who's acardiologist and go, here's what
I'm dealing with.
What kind of diagnostic testingwould you recommend?
Here's the medication thisgentleman's on.
Does that make sense?
Do you think he needs anappointment right now?
Or was there something we cantry first and then see how it
works?
And then we can make theappointment in three months,
which is when your dad was goingto get it anyway.
(13:42):
But at least we can get startedon it and maybe he gets better
and doesn't need the appointmentin three months.
You see the difference?
All I did is I put that into aplatform and surround it with
data and technology andlicensing.
And um, it's quite complex, thesystem we've created, but it's
solving that very, very simpleproblem of access and
affordability and peace of mindthat come with it for Americans
(14:05):
that are ordinary wage earnersin main and lots of times in
small businesses and franchises.
Tom DuFore (14:11):
This problem just seems, from my experience in
working with our clients andtalking with thousands of small
businesses over the many yearsof doing what I do, almost all
of them have shared a similarstruggle about benefits, health
care.
They want to be able to offer asolution to their staff and to
their team members, but theability for them either doesn't
(14:34):
exist because they're too small,or it's just too costly.
And the quality of care thatthey'd be able to offer just
isn't that great of an option.
So I'd love for you to talk alittle bit about how you have
now taken that.
You started going down thispathway with the platform and a
solution for other smallbusinesses and now working with
(14:54):
franchisors to provide somesolutions.
You made a great point.
Dr. David Berg (14:59):
We had a problem ourselves, and it happened to
be the same problem everyAmerican business has,
particularly small business.
It's not a new problem.
We created a solution.
And we did, yes, we created asolution with original thinking,
thinking that it wasn'thappening yet in the commercial
sense.
However, it was inspired bythinking that was just common
sense that every doctor isalready doing in their living
(15:21):
room, as I said, or theirkitchen or on the phone.
Right.
So it's it's the originalthinking was turning it into a
commercial thing, or to actuallyput it live for my own
employees, extending my family.
But then we turned it into aplatform.
And the the reason we did thatwas in 2000, end of 2020, if you
remember, COVID was veryuncertain.
(15:43):
And we were very worried aboutour customers.
And our average sized customerwas probably around 10
employees.
That was our average sizedcustomer.
And really, we were doing aservice for them, very similar
to what I described.
But we got to 2020, I'mthinking, and especially in the
restaurant industry, we saw likeincredible pain for the
(16:03):
business owners and a lot of ourbusiness owners.
And we during COVID, you you'veexperienced it.
Everyone still remembers it asrecent enough.
But I made this now as a newopportunity, my new problem.
My employees or my customer, Iwasn't worried about them being
able to stay in business and beable to buy our services.
But I saw as an opportunityalso to build on top of what we
(16:23):
had already created, a platformto change the mindset from we're
providing a service to let'sperform, let's create a platform
that we can build a health planon.
So we can partner with aninsurance company, partner with
a cost share, partner with, sowe we've got two insurance
companies and a cost share, sothree risk pools carriers that
have built plans on top of ourplatform.
(16:43):
And it makes them much lessexpensive and it makes our
platform easier to get topeople.
We also created a brokeragethat allows us to create plans
and collect premiums and helpother brokers through this new
model.
We created a third-partyadministration company on our
platform, which allows us tohold fiduciary custodian claims
account that our carrierpartners would entrust with us,
(17:05):
and then to pay doctors.
And it allows us to innovate onthe payment of doctors.
We understand because we weredoctors, we are doctors, we own
clinics, how important speed andcertainty of payment is in
getting cooperation and gettingthat part out of the way for
them so they can focus on whatdo you need and what are the
logistics.
We do the logistics, they tellus what they need.
And that way we can get thecoverage piece that I mentioned
(17:26):
in the initial problem out ofthe way.
Hey, let's just prepay you.
Let's just, let's, let's,let's, let's pay you tomorrow.
Let's pay, and we createdinnovative systems with JP
Morgan Chase to connect to thefiduciary accounts that nobody
else has created.
But these are opportunitiesthat we went with in original
thinking that we went withbecause we had we're stacking on
top of things, successes we'vealready had.
(17:48):
But the platform idea reallywas the thing that blew
everything up for us.
And we also build a pharmacy ontop of our platform that and a
pharmacy benefit managementcompany on top of our platform.
And now we've built ReefHealth, which is a franchise on
top of our platform led by MattHale and Jesse Curry, who were
(18:08):
instrumental in the joint andmassage envy's success.
I'm instrumental in it.
So these are these are peoplethat are building a franchise to
help other franchisees solvethis healthcare problem on our
platform.
So the expanse, the the Icannot, I've I've where I could
have imagined it before as aservice, like where the end was
(18:30):
or how big it could be.
Now, as a platform, I cannotimagine the end.
I can't imagine it.
It's every time I think I'mgetting close to it, there's a
new nothing, some somebody, anew level of uh or of value we
can create, uh, anxiety that wecan relieve, or more certainty
we can give with respect to theeveryday ordinary wage earner
(18:51):
being able to confidently knowthat they can access and afford
the best healthcare in theworld.
If I were to summarize, is wehad a problem we had to solve as
immigrants to America.
We solved it for ourselves,other people saw it, they wanted
it.
We helped them, and we're thecool kids in the block for a
long time when we were solvingthis problem for our friends'
company.
We were the I like being thecool kid.
(19:13):
I'm not used to being the coolkid and the thing that I'm, you
know, world class at and gettingmy peer group to appreciate it.
And then we, with the mayor ofPhoenix, Paul Johnson, we
decided we're gonna go be theheroes to uh entrepreneurs and
small business owners all overArizona.
And that turned into all overthe country.
But then it turned into anability to solve a business
(19:34):
problem because of COVID byparlaying the successes we
already had.
And now it's it's turned intoum a platform that's got others
participating, other reallysmart, capable, driven, mission
driven people, whether it's atan insurance company or at Reef,
saying, let's take this alittle bit further.
So it started to grow, it'sgrown into something way beyond
(19:54):
what my wife and I and PaulJohnson uh ever imagined when we
started.
Tom DuFore (19:58):
You're really creating.
Creating this new thinking asyou describe this, this is a bit
of a disruption to kind of thestatus quo and how things are
done.
And I'm sure over time you youwould bump into a closed door or
a wall along the way that youhad to figure out okay, well,
how do we help folks kind of seethis?
And I just wonder, is thereanything that kind of comes to
(20:21):
mind or an example or challengesyou saw as you started to grow
and go through that?
Dr. David Berg (20:27):
Yeah, let me start with this.
The people in the existinghealthcare system, by and large,
are really good people.
They really good hearts, butthey're in a bad system right
now.
It's a complex system.
There's a lot of hidden costs.
Time, money, attention, theattention suck is incredible.
So time it's a bad system.
(20:48):
Let's just start with it.
I'm gonna leave it at that.
It's a bad system.
We have some really good peoplein a bad system.
That shouldn't surprise us thatthe experience of people using
this bad system, regardless ofhow kind and good the people
are, is not going to be a greatexperience.
What we've sought out to do wasto create a different system.
But it's the system, reproducethe system that every doctor
(21:09):
already has created because it'ssuch common sense for their own
families and their extendedfamilies and their own live from
their own living rooms.
We just, we, we, we just let'sextend that to them.
And but it's it's really aboutthinking like a system.
We don't want to use theexisting healthcare system.
We do want to use thecomponents of it.
We do want to use the greatmedications, the great
technology, the great operatingroom, the great nurses, the
(21:32):
great doctors in the system, butwe don't want to use the
system.
We reject the system, but notthe people and the components in
it.
So we've created a system thatcan use those components.
And it's really, reallyimportant that we have to be
able with our platform tointeract with the existing
components of the ecosystem, notthe system, but the components
of it.
(21:52):
And that's a nuance.
A lot of people have told meI'm splitting hairs with that.
I think it's really importantto making it work.
But I've I've had somearguments over that for sure.
So I understand theabstractness of that.
Yes, there has been, there havebeen obstacles, many of them.
Most of them are with trying tofigure out how to use
components of the system withoutactually using the system,
(22:14):
particularly the billing part ofthe system, the perverse
incentives that are aroundbilling, and the perverse
incentives that are around thelogistics.
Whoever controls logisticscontrols the flow of money.
And when the money stops, theyalso control where the money
stops, and that's called profitusually.
Where the money stops is calledprofit.
But as it moves through, piecesget taken off.
(22:35):
And that's also somebody'srevenue and somebody's profit.
So we are continuallymonitoring and managing the
logistics of using thecomponents in the system.
So when we have experienced thesystem head on, it's because we
did not consider all the thingsthat are there.
We didn't do a good enough jobof not disrupting the system.
When we disrupt the system, itpushes back.
(22:58):
So I see disruption in adifferent way.
I'm not proud of disruption.
It's a necessary part of whatwe do, but we hit disruption.
I love collaboration.
Way that is way more pleasingto work in a situation of
collaboration than disruption,and especially for our
customers.
They do not want to be in afight with the ecosystem.
(23:18):
They want to be in acollaborative environment.
So that's our job.
So when we hit disruption, tous, that is evidence that we're
not doing it as well as we can.
We don't see it as let's createmore disruption.
We see it as, hey, let's tweaksomething, let's apply some more
original thinking, someexperiential thinking.
Let's, let's, you know, KobeBryant said it best.
(23:38):
He said he loves tough defense.
So we love tough defense too.
And when when we when the thethe ecosystem of healthcare
tells us, pushes back, we knowwe're starting to disrupt
something, some revenue flow orsome profit, we know that's
tough defense.
And we got to that'll help usget better.
So just like Kobe got and said,I love tough defense, we love
tough defense too.
(23:59):
And our goal is not to disrupt,it is to learn how to
collaborate.
And when we do that well, weare much more successful, and
our customer gets less anxiety,less more peace of mind around
accessing the great healthcarewe have in America.
Our biggest uh sales objectionis too good to be true.
How on earth can you do it forthat price and nobody else can?
(24:20):
And the answer always is it'sso obvious to me, but it's not
obvious to the outsiders.
Well, we couldn't do it for ourprice either if we started with
who's gonna pay for it.
No, we start with what do youneed and what are the logistics
around it, and what's the bestway to lower the cost of the
logistics and still get you thecare you need.
And if if anyone does that,which every doctor in their own
living room already does that,the costs go down tremendously.
(24:42):
So it's only because we do thatthat we can, and that that's
the only way we can even answerthe sales objection, too good to
be true.
The cost is too good to betrue, is with that.
Now, not everybody buys that,and we don't have the
opportunity to tell everybodythat story or to give people
that reason.
But my experience has been thatwhen I do give people that
reason, it's usually, yeah, butwe don't believe it's possible
(25:05):
to do it, even though we'redoing it.
It's it's not easy to believethe execution.
Tom DuFore (25:09):
As you've grown over the last and expanded over the
last 20 years now, where do yousee this going?
Dr. David Berg (25:16):
There's an element of when you have success
and you're building on top ofthe success, at some point you
start wondering, am I gettinggreedy right now?
Because I want now, I want alittle bit more.
And I never, I would have, I 10years ago, I said I would have
been, I couldn't even imaginebeing at the level we're at
right now or creating the impactwe're creating right now.
But then once once I get there,I'm sure you're the same.
I hope everybody's the same.
And I'm not the only one likethis, but I get greedy.
(25:37):
I want more of it.
And uh so I'm really I I cantell you, I am addicted to this
concept of peace of mind inpeople when they're healthy,
that they don't have to beafraid if they aren't healthy at
some point.
But I also want to create morepeace of mind in people who are
not healthy or sick or goingthrough the system.
But that's a hard one.
(25:58):
So it's about people who arehealthy, give them the peace of
mind that if something happens,I'm going to be okay.
And not that dissimilar to whatUber did with when my kids were
in college.
When I saw the Uber app and Isaw I could put my American
Express on it, and my kids nowhad the capability of never
having to get in a car if theywere even wondering if a friend
(26:22):
had been drinking or if it wassafe to drive or to go out in
the street by themselves.
Like that they always had thiscapability.
I can't even describe the peaceof mind I had.
And Uber, I don't know theyever intended that, that a dad
with a college-age child wouldbe able to put their credit card
on there and for no cost.
Like, of course, there's a costof them to use it, but there's
(26:44):
no cost to have the Uber appwith my credit card on it, to
have that peace of mind.
And it was, it was almostinstant for me.
As soon as my kids embraced itand they agreed, and it was my
money.
Hey, please, don't there'sdon't ever get in a car, don't
ever go outside, don't ever gosomebody somewhere you think you
feel a little unsafe.
Just me knowing they had thatcapability was incredible peace
(27:05):
of mind.
So I I've been thinking aboutthat for a long time, long time.
So I see a day where we're notin front of tens of thousands or
a couple hundreds of thousandsof people.
I see a day when we're in frontof tens of millions of people.
Not that dissimilar to how Goodor X has created a free way to
have incredible pricetransparency, or Uber app has
(27:27):
created an incredible way tohave transparent capability of
what's it cost to get from pointA to point B.
There's a peace of mind to bothof those companies that I'm
inspired by that I can see wecan do that at a for this
problem with Americanhealthcare.
Tom DuFore (27:43):
Speaking of being inspired, if someone is inspired
or interested in learning moreabout redirect health,
connecting with you, how cansomeone go about getting in
contact here?
Dr. David Berg (27:54):
We've created various products on our platform
and they're on our website,redirecthealth.com.
So you can learn about ourproducts there.
Probably, quite frankly, you'lllearn more about this podcast
about what's driving the pro theplatform inside the products
here.
You're not going to see this onthe on our website.
Our website is for the theproducts and our product
partners.
But my email is david.berg,B-E-R-G, like iceberg at
(28:17):
redirecthealth.com.
How would I be excited ifpeople were involved?
Number one is uh the morepeople that care about this
mission and are aware of thisproblem and understand that we
don't have to be anxious aboutaccessing and affordable
affording the best healthcare inthe world.
Maybe we're not because we'rean insider, because we know
(28:38):
somebody who can practicemedicine out of their living
room or on a telephone, but mostpeople aren't.
Most people with ordinaryhourly workers, hourly wage
earners, and or normal wageearners, there's a peace of mind
for them too.
So just understanding that andthat that's helpful to us is
just mission-oriented people andtalk about it.
That would be useful.
(28:59):
And if somebody wanted to uhput our plans in their business,
yes, that's a that's a home runfor us also.
But really where the massescan, I think that where this is
going to take off, the massesare going to participate, is
just by like just pushing backon this idea that I have to, I'm
healthy, but I have to beanxious about if I don't become
healthy because I might not beable to access, I might not be
(29:21):
able to afford the healthcaresystem that's in front of me
today.
Nobody has to feel that way.
I understand that most peopledo, but I also understand that
nobody has to.
Tom DuFore (29:31):
David, there's a great time in the show, and we
make a little transition and wemake sure we ask every guest the
same four questions before theygo.
And the first question we askis, have you had a miss or two
on your journey and somethingyou learned from it?
Dr. David Berg (29:44):
Oh my gosh, have I had a miss?
You mean have I had less than athousand misses?
I mean, there are misses everyday.
And the way I think about amiss is there's no plan that's
gonna work the first time.
And it's going to it maybe ittakes nine iterations, ten
iterations to get it right.
(30:04):
My thinking is, well, let's go,let's let's let's do something,
see what learn, iterate fast sowe can get to what's gonna work
the quickest.
I I know the first one's notgonna work.
Not when we're doing somethingthat nobody else has ever done.
There's a lot of figuring stuffout.
It's not about just doing whatsomebody else has done and doing
it better.
That might be a different game.
Most of our misses are about weare trying to do something that
(30:26):
nobody else has done with amission that nobody else is
going after.
And quite frankly, even thepeople who are in the middle of
it sometimes wonder if theyreally want to put their hearts
into this concept of we're gonnacreate peace of mind and
alleviate anxiety.
No, I'm a nurse, I'm here to dohealthcare, right?
Is a different level of caringabout it.
(30:47):
And anyone could participate inthat caring.
But the, you know, I thinkabout what we've built is really
a complex system.
And complex system theory anddesign and management plays a
big part in it.
And very many well-meaningpeople will try to tweak little
things thinking they're gonnamake it better, and nobody
notices until six months laterwhen the whole system is not
(31:08):
running as well.
It's like your car is a prettycomplex uh vehicle, and you can
change out the the carburetorand think, well, it's a better
carburetor, it should workbetter.
Maybe not.
I'm dating myself by sayingcarburetors because I don't even
know what they have right now.
I don't think we havecarburetors anymore.
But in the in the old days, youcouldn't just replace a
(31:28):
carburetor with a bettercarburetor and think the car is
going to work.
It has to fit together.
And so a lot of our misses arebecause it's such a complex
problem we're dealing with.
We have a complex answer to it,but it's a better complex
answer.
But we have to pay attention tohow we might disrupt it
inadvertently and how we mightdisrupt the existing ecosystem
(31:51):
inadvertently.
And that we have done it manytimes, so many times, where we
have done things that we thoughtwere well-meaning, and then the
existing ecosystem says, noway, there's no way you're gonna
do this.
You're gonna cost us.
I know you're gonna saveyourself $10,000, but you're
gonna cost us $100,000.
We're not gonna let you dothat.
So we have to figure out howto, you know, not disrupt the
(32:13):
system.
Tom DuFore (32:14):
Let's talk about the flip side of things.
We talk about a highlight or amake or a win or two that you'd
like to share.
Certainly you've talked aboutredirect health and and the
growth and things you've seen.
Is there another instance thatyou'd like to share?
Dr. David Berg (32:28):
Well, a place where we had huge success where
it wasn't so certain when westarted was during COVID.
But if you remember, there's alot of uncertainty for
everybody.
I mean, and so us our decisionto go from a service company to
a platform company and to startbuilding things on top of our
platform.
That was, as you can imagine,quite expensive.
And luckily we were profitablebefore that, so we could do it.
(32:50):
That was a decision that evenwhen I did it, I didn't know it
was the right decision.
I just knew that we we were hadto leave where we were and we
had to go somewhere different.
What was working pre-COVID wasnot going to work now.
That was obvious what theanswer was, turning into a
platform and going to companiesthat maybe had a much higher
(33:12):
spend with more employees andthe complexity of having brokers
in the mix of that too, andtrying to figure out how do we
build a brokerage, how do webuild a TPA, how do we build
insurance companies on top ofour platform.
So it all integrated together.
Remember, we're not just goingto be a carburetor and put it
into another car.
We had to make it integrate.
So big part of us building onour platform was so that the
(33:34):
integration would happennaturally.
And then lots of reusablebuilding blocks were created
during that time.
Things that fit together, likea carburetor via reusable
building block next to uh anengine, which is another
reusable building block, let'ssay, and then you got to make
them connect.
So we did a lot of that in uh2020, 2021, 2022, without
(33:57):
knowing if it was going to workor not.
And so it's turned out to be agreat success for us.
And it's uh I wouldn't go backnow, knowing what I know.
At the time, though, I got totell you, I didn't know it was
the right direction.
Tom DuFore (34:07):
The next question we ask, David, is have you used a
multiplier to multiply yourselfpersonally or professionally or
organizations you've run?
Dr. David Berg (34:16):
What you make me think of when you ask that
question is a coaching programI've been in for 25 years now.
So Dan Sullivan, a strategiccoach, has been my coach for 25
years now.
So I visit him every quarter atleast, sometimes more than
that.
He's really, really helped methink about my unique ability,
the thing that people count onme for for success, the thing
(34:37):
I'm world-class at, the thingthat I'm continually learning,
and the thing that I'm alwaysgetting better at.
And the persistence on it makesit such that nobody can keep up
with me with my unique ability.
So creating an organization andstructure around my life where
my unique ability is where I getto live, and attracting other
people with other uniqueabilities, so we can create a
(34:58):
unique ability team, if youwill, with a unique process for
a unique mission has been very,very helpful.
So that concept of uniqueability and really respecting it
in myself and in others and inprocess and in mission and
purpose, that has been uh a hugemultiplier.
And when I say huge, I don'tmean 10x or even 100x.
(35:19):
I don't even know how I canmeasure it.
I I would not be able to dowhat I was doing today without
that thinking that started 25years ago.
And and when I say 25 yearsago, it's still, I'm still
thinking about today.
I am still refining uh myunderstanding of my unique
ability, my each individual teammember's unique ability, the
uniqueness of our team of ourprocess and our mission because
(35:43):
of those unique abilities.
So it's it's it's I say call ita huge multiplier because I
don't see it ever ending.
I see it continue to stack andto multiply on top of itself to
the point where it's clearlyexponential.
It's not a linear addition gameanymore.
It is a multiplier.
Tom DuFore (36:01):
David, the final question we ask every guest is
what does success mean to you?
Dr. David Berg (36:06):
That's very broad success.
So I'm gonna give you a broadanswer.
I'm gonna say it has to do withfreedom.
And it was the reason why Icame from Canada, United States.
I just saw a freedom ofambition that was here that I
didn't was that that it was nothappening for me in Canada.
And that doesn't mean it's notthere in Canada.
I didn't have it and I didn'tknow how to find it when I was
(36:29):
younger, but I could find itimmediately in the United
States.
This freedom of ambition and ofdreaming bigger and original
thinking.
That wasn't as obviouslyembraced in Canada as it was
here.
So the concept of freedom,getting freedom that matters to
you, to me, that's success forme.
And whatever that could be, itcould be freedom of
relationship, freedom of havingenough money to do what I want,
(36:52):
freedom of hanging out with whoI want, freedom of purpose.
Oh my gosh, like that's a bigone.
To be able to say, I want toalleviate the anxiety and create
peace of mind around access tothe best healthcare in the world
for tens of millions ofAmericans.
That's a that's a veryambitious thing to say, but it's
a purpose and it's real.
The freedom to have thatpurpose and to be able to say it
(37:13):
here, that is to me, success isthat freedom to be able to have
the ambition you want, thepurpose you want, to have the
people in your life you want, tohave the money you want, to
have the dreams you want, tohave the happiness you want, to
have what you want.
Tom DuFore (37:28):
I love that.
And David, as we bring this toa close, is there anything you
were hoping to share or getacross that you haven't had a
chance to yet?
Dr. David Berg (37:36):
Well, this is a franchise show.
And it seems like we talkedvery little about franchise.
So, you know, when I thoughtabout this before, I was like,
okay, what's the main, like amain lesson or message or
something I want to leave withthe audience?
We haven't even come close totalking about it, which is which
is interesting to me because II I had this preconceived notion
that we're gonna talk aboutfranchising, of which I know
(37:57):
very little about.
So I had a little anxiety aboutthat.
I'm going, I am the last personto say there it have any kind
of expertise on franchising.
You know, you got me started inthis.
I had this idea and I came toyou to learn a little bit about
franchise.
And when we started, Tom, Ithought you were gonna teach me
everything I need to know aboutfranchise in about three hours,
maybe three days, maybe 30 days,maybe three months, and then I
(38:19):
would be able to go run with it.
And what I learned veryquickly, you got me there fast,
is the people who do this,they've got 20 years of
experience.
Just like I've got 20, 30 yearsof experience, 40 years now.
I started working in a mentalhospital 18, 19 years old.
So that's how far back inhealthcare I go.
But but you made me realizefast that this is a different
(38:39):
discipline.
This whole the franchisebusiness is different.
And that is why I went out andI got Matt Hale and I talked to
him about what I wanted to do.
And there's a little bit of catand mouse where he's trying to
avoid me a little bit, and I'mtrying to like get him in.
And it it's we got about ayear, and he's like, Okay, I get
it.
Let's do let's do this.
And then he brought in JesseCurry, who had very instrumental
(39:02):
in massage envy's success.
And then uh we got Pete, who Ithink you know, a bunch of
different brands too.
So I've seen Matt, Jesse, andPete with so much franchise
knowledge, it was even I realizenow how silly it was when I
came to you and said, teach meabout franchises.
I want to be a franchisor.
Like I want to build afranchise on our platform.
I realize now how silly it was.
(39:24):
If there is a lesson there forsomebody who might want a
franchise, is you can do ityourself, I'm sure.
That might be the slow boat.
There is a faster boat, whichis go partner with somebody who
has already done it, had thesuccesses, understands the
nuances, can make the pivots.
The thing I'm most impressedwith uh Jesse and Matt and Pete
is how fast they can make littlepivots.
(39:44):
I'd be I'd create a plan thatwould take me forever to create,
and I'd stay in that plan forfive years too long.
And and they're able to makelittle pivots because they're
they're they're experienced.
Tom DuFore (39:54):
The hope for today is what you shared.
I mean, you just have awonderful story and I also think
it's a great lesson for folksto hear that this doesn't just
happen overnight.
This was a journey to getthere.
It didn't just happen in 12months or 24 months.
Maybe the idea spawned andspurred and kind of came to you
(40:16):
and you had that vision, butit's taken time for it to start
being executed and to startexpanding and growing.
Dr. David Berg (40:24):
Yeah.
And you know, one of back toDan Sullivan in the coaching
I've had for the last 25 years.
Another part of that coachingis getting clear on the what's
fast so fascinating andmotivating.
You could easily see this as 25years, uh, a 25-year goal or
journey.
I'm well in, yeah, since Istarted with Dan 25 years ago,
and I am more fascinated andmotivated by this journey than
(40:46):
I've ever been.
But that's because I've beenintentional about it with Dan's
coaching.
And I've very been veryintentional about the things
that are draining and just orboring, and making sure that I'm
not getting too sucked up inthe draining and boring aspects
of life that other people findincredibly fascinating and
motivating and getting thepeople together so that there's
(41:08):
some things that are boring andirritating and annoying, you've
got to do.
But all those things have otherpeople who are just jazzed
about it.
I just, I'm just not.
I've been very, very fortunateto have that coaching, thinking,
coaching 25 years ago.
So when I'm thinking throughthis journey, I'm not thinking
about like I'm at any kind ofendpoint right now.
(41:29):
I'm thinking about I'm just atthe beginning of another journey
or in the middle of a journey.
And up to now, the last 25years has really been
preparation for my next 25years.
That's that's all it is.
And you know, I got a lot donein 25, you know, starting 25
years ago because of what I'ddone 20, you know, I'm not that
old to have done it that long,but you get you get my point?
(41:50):
Oh, yeah, absolutely.
Just at the beginning ofanother the continuation or
beginning of something muchbigger than what we've already
done.
I don't know how to get infront of tens of millions or
100, 100, 350 million Americans.
I have no idea how to do that.
I do know that uh I'm closerthan anybody else.
I want it more than anybodyelse.
And if I put that challenge outthere, because if I find
(42:11):
somebody who wants it more, weare gonna be best friends
immediately.
I am gonna get on an airplane,I'll be at their doorstep
tomorrow if I find somebody whowants what I want as much as I
want it.
I promise.
Tom DuFore (42:23):
Dr.
Berg, thank you so much forbeing a guest on our podcast.
And let's go ahead and jumpinto today's three key
takeaways.
Takeaway number one is when hetold the story about how he and
his wife are doctors and thatthe advice that they would give
their friends in their livingroom on their personal time was
different from the advice thatthey would give in their own
(42:46):
office.
And that is what led to theidea that eventually became
redirect health.
Takeaway number two, I reallyliked how he talked about using
creatively thinking to problemsolve.
He said a quote in theinterview where he said, we have
really good people in a badsystem.
And he used systems thinking tocreate a solution.
(43:07):
And he said, I reject thecurrent system, but not the
people in the system.
So he recognized really greatpeople there.
And so he said, let'scollaborate, let's work together
to help continue to refine thesystem.
Takeaway number three is whenhe talked about a miss.
And his miss was that he thinksabout misses all the time.
(43:31):
And he doesn't think of it as atotal miss.
Rather, he thinks that thefirst plan, when you're doing
something new or innovative orunique, the first plan is never
going to work the first go atit.
So you've got to just getstarted so that you can start
figuring it out and have lots oflittle misses, sometimes
(43:52):
medium-sized misses along theway.
And he said a lot of systemsare very complex and there's no
one size fits all simplesolution.
And that's what he's trying todo here.
He recognizes that thehealthcare industry is extremely
complex and there are a lot ofmoving parts.
So a simple solution is likelynot to work.
(44:13):
Now it's time for today'swin-win.
So today's win-win is sometimesstarting with uh a different
question leads to findingdifferent solutions.
And that's what Dr.
Berg and his co-founders didwhen they launched their
(44:34):
business right from thebeginning.
They started with the question,what do you need?
Or what does the customer orthe patient need instead of
who's going to pay for it?
And I thought that was abeautiful way of looking at it
because when they started withwhat do you need, it led him
down this pathway to startcreating a different way of
(44:56):
approaching the healthcaresystem.
And so the win-win is if youchange the question you're
asking, you might find differentideas that spur and create
different solutions.
And so that's the episodetoday, folks.
Please make sure you subscribeto the podcast and give us a
review.
And remember, if you or anyoneyou know might be ready to
franchise your business or taketheir franchise company to the
(45:18):
next level, please connect withus at BigSkyFranchise Team.com
where you can schedule your freeno obligation consultation.
Thanks for tuning in, and welook forward to having you back
next week.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Betrayal: Weekly
Betrayal Weekly is back for a brand new season. Every Thursday, Betrayal Weekly shares first-hand accounts of broken trust, shocking deceptions, and the trail of destruction they leave behind. Hosted by Andrea Gunning, this weekly ongoing series digs into real-life stories of betrayal and the aftermath. From stories of double lives to dark discoveries, these are cautionary tales and accounts of resilience against all odds. From the producers of the critically acclaimed Betrayal series, Betrayal Weekly drops new episodes every Thursday. Please join our Substack for additional exclusive content, curated book recommendations and community discussions. Sign up FREE by clicking this link Beyond Betrayal Substack. Join our community dedicated to truth, resilience and healing. Your voice matters! Be a part of our Betrayal journey on Substack. And make sure to check out Seasons 1-4 of Betrayal, along with Betrayal Weekly Season 1.