072 Surviving 15 Stab Wounds - Story of Resilience - Multispective

Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_00 (00:01):
If you think you've hit rock bottom, you actually
haven't hit rock bottom.
I was attacked and stabbed 15times.
I can't kill you.
I can't hurt you badly.

SPEAKER_01 (00:21):
Quick warning before we dive in.
Today's story is both grippingand gut-wrenching.
I interview Vivi Devereaux, atrue hero who was stabbed while
bravely attempting to saveanother person one unfortunate
and fateful night.
He's here to share how thatharrowing experience reshaped
his life and ignited a journeyof resilience.

(00:43):
Guys, please remember, if you doenjoy the show, please support
us by following and sharing thepodcast with your friends and
family and spreading the word.
Your support is vital in helpingus bring more inspiring stories
to light.
Thank you very much and enjoythe episode.

(01:13):
Thank you so much, Ruby, forbeing here on the podcast and
your time and everything.
I really do appreciate it.
And I apologize for coming in alittle bit late.
It was...
havoc with the with my cat inthe morning he just decided to
jump on my massive coffee jarand just shatter the glass all
over the place and i was likenot now oh

SPEAKER_00 (01:35):
yeah yeah well hopefully there's not too much
to clean up because i like catsbut they can be devious little
little guys you aren't looking

SPEAKER_01 (01:45):
so yeah are you actually based in the uk and
whereabouts in the uk were youborn and raised there like tell
me a

SPEAKER_00 (01:53):
And I have lived in the States for nearly 10 years
now.
So relocated to LA.
So yes, that's been an adventureto say the least.

SPEAKER_01 (02:04):
Wow.
Tell me about your story.
Where does it all begin for you?
How is it, you know, yourchildhood and, you know, your
family life and everything?

SPEAKER_00 (02:12):
Right.
Well, that's a very interestingstory.
Mother is a hardworkingentrepreneur.
My parents never really married.
Obviously, product of a summerfling.
So they went their separateways.
Mother was given free passage toEngland, but she decided to stay
where she is.

(02:32):
She is, well, I was born in themiddle of apartheid, let's put
it that way, 1986 in SouthAfrica.
So she was an apartheid freedomfighter, essentially.
And she wanted to stay and, youknow, fight for what was right,
fight for her rights, ourfuture, and end discrimination.
So I grew up with It's...

(02:56):
a firebrand of a mother who,when she saw something, she
would always go and get it.
I think that's where I got itfrom because we are very
similar, but very different.
So when we decide, okay, we'regoing for something and we see a
goal that we want, we typicallygo for it.

SPEAKER_01 (03:11):
Would you agree that those are certain
characteristics that kind ofhelped you get into the field
that you got into as well, intoacting?

SPEAKER_00 (03:17):
I would agree with you there.
But also realising that I didn'twant to be an actor growing up.
In fact, being an artist was thelast thing on my mind.
Growing up, I wanted to be anentrepreneur or a financier or a
banker.
In fact, I started a universitydegree studying financial
management.

(03:39):
But I have always been part ofthe theatre group because I
enjoyed that as well.
The opportunity fell in when Iwas scouted for modelling and I
started doing a couple offashion shows, a lot of runway
stuff.
So for Hugo Boss, Carducci,brands like that.
A to that world, by the way.

(03:59):
I found it incredibly toxic.
Why?
How so?
I've heard some people saythings to me where they go,
well, Vivi, can't sleep withyou, so I might as well put you
on a show, you know, when itcomes to certain producers.
But they said it in a much ruderway.
And it was just, you know, thebackstabbing, the cattiness when

(04:21):
you get backstage.
I mean, it was fun when it wasfun, but when it It wasn't you.
I mean, you're going to beobjectified because that's the
nature of the business and youneed to have the mindset for it.
But at the same time, it becomesone is enough enough, especially
when you are young and stillfiguring out what you're going
to do next.
So I quit acting, decided I'mgoing to be an actor, came here,

(04:48):
got my diploma.
Then I buggered off for a year.
I lived in India for a while.
In India?

SPEAKER_01 (04:55):
I

SPEAKER_00 (04:56):
lived in India for a year and then went to South
Africa to help my mother with afew things because that's where
she lives.
You know, bounced to England fora bit and then back here in
2015.

SPEAKER_01 (05:08):
Wow.
And what about your siblings?
You said you have a brother.
Yeah,

SPEAKER_00 (05:13):
I have a younger brother who is an author,
actually.
If I were to plug a book, itwould be one of his.
But we are incredibly close.
I think he knows me better thananyone.
Anyone on planet Earth.
And we've been through a lottogether.
We've been through a lottogether.
And I think he has turnedinto...

(05:39):
an incredible, incredible man.
You know, he's now engaged,looking to get married at some
point this year, which I'mincredibly proud of.
And, you know,

SPEAKER_01 (05:51):
one

SPEAKER_00 (05:52):
of my best friends, one of my greatest supporters,
and when he wrote that book, hewrote it using me as an
archetype.
So he wrote it as, you know,

SPEAKER_01 (06:07):
kind

SPEAKER_00 (06:08):
of...
expressing his love andappreciation for me, but also
he's peppered into it all theselittle inside jokes that only
our family would get.
So when I read it,

SPEAKER_01 (06:20):
I

SPEAKER_00 (06:20):
find myself laughing at something that no one else
will get.
But I do.
I don't know why he put it inthere.

SPEAKER_01 (06:28):
Love

SPEAKER_00 (06:29):
it.
Very, very close to him.
We can always pick up the phone.
We talk and we can...
talk at any time and we hardlyever really disagree on anything
either now I think about it.
So yeah, no, we're really,really close.

SPEAKER_01 (06:50):
Do you feel like to an extent adversity kind of
brought you guys close?
Yes.
Do you feel like that was kindof like when you had those
pivotal moments, those were themoments you guys really bonded?

UNKNOWN (07:01):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (07:02):
I think our entire family, once we were going
through a really tough time, youknow, it was just the three of
us, my mother, him and I, and wewere going through an incredibly
hard time.
We really were.
Business was doing poorly.
We were having other issues thatwe were needing to navigate.

(07:25):
And it was just...
Everyone was reaching theirbreaking point at some point.
And the thing about rock bottomis if you think you've hit rock
bottom, you actually haven't hitrock bottom.
It's when you suddenly realizehow tired and shell-shocked you

(07:47):
are That's when I think you havehit rock bottom.
If you visualize it and you say,this is rock bottom, it isn't.
It's when you are numb andhollow and alone and alone with
your thoughts and they areeither racing or you feel this

(08:09):
deep sense of apathy or just...
I don't know what to do next.
Then I think you're close torock bottom.
So,

SPEAKER_01 (08:19):
Phoebe, tell us a little bit more about your
story.
What is the ultimate...
part of what makes your story onour listeners to hear?

SPEAKER_00 (08:31):
So it's definitely changed over the last couple of
years due to what happened in myattack.
So my story is still my pushingforward and making my acting and
artistic career I wouldn't sayit would validate anything, but
I would say it would fulfill adestiny and a dream that I

(08:53):
didn't know that I had or that Iwanted to do.
But I'm now fundamentally nolonger the same person.
You know, this was a watershedmoment when you have to be
resuscitated twice because ofjust how extensively you've been
injured.
It fundamentally changes you.
I'm still trying to figure outmy way back from that.

(09:15):
I mean, to let your listenersknow, I was attacked and stabbed
15 times, escorting a lady toher car after we had had a night
out as a group.
My injuries were extensive.
My hand was cleaved in half andmultiple stab points everywhere
in my torso.
And I was eviscerated with morethan half my small intestine

(09:40):
hanging out.
So there was a lot of bloodloss, huge amount of damage.
Three surgeons to piece me backto And as I said, brought back
twice.
So once you experience somethinglike that, you aren't quite the
same.
The perspective is different.
The goal is the same.
I still want to achieve theartistic vision, but now it's
needing to not only piece mybody back together, but my mind

(10:02):
back together.
So I know why I'm still going inthis direction because I feel I
still have to, I must, but thedrive now is okay.
Why am I still doing this?
What's motivating me now?
So that's the

SPEAKER_01 (10:17):
challenge.

(10:45):
of this attack for?

SPEAKER_00 (10:47):
You know, I've been trying to understand what that
is as well, because I'd met themthat night.
She was a stranger to me, and Iheard a voice in my head that
said, walk her to her car.
So it was the four of us sittingat a table and just talking and
having a good time, getting toknow all each other.
And then the other two weregoing to take their own Ubers

(11:09):
back home.
I was going to take mine aswell.
And this lady I was escorting,she lived close by.
So she was to drive.
And she's the one who drove usthere.
So it was going to be very easy.
What we didn't know is when Iheard this voice walk her to a
car, it was literally a voice.
I kid you not.
It wasn't like, you know, whenyou have an instinct, it feels

(11:29):
like a pressure inside yourchest.
This wasn't that.
This was an actual voice that Iheard from nowhere.
And I went, okay.
Then that internal pressure hit.
So I asked her, may I walk youto your car?
And she said, yeah, sure.
And as we did, we stayed out thefront door, he came out the side
and started following us going,where are you guys going?

(11:51):
Where are you going?
Where are you going?
And we were crossing the streetat this point and we were trying
to deescalate as best as wecould until we got to the other
side.
And then when we realized that Itried to calm him down, she
tried to calm him down.
And when that didn't work, youknow, there was something that
was off and I pushed her out theway and I said, run.

(12:12):
So she takes off running up thehill to where her car was.
And then as I turned my head,the guy already had the knife
going past my neck.
Somehow, somehow, just the way Iturned back, it was here.
I charge forward and I startunloading my fist on his head.
He's turtled up.
He's slashing.
And, you know, I get behind him.

(12:32):
I'm about to break his armbecause I've got him in a rear
neck choke.
I've got his arm behind him likethis.
And I'm about to break his arm,but I was a bit slow.
And he, you know, he moved hishead backwards and smashed him.
in the face right on the nose,which would daze anyone for a
moment.
We both fall down to the floor,and then, because I was behind

(12:55):
him and we fell backwards, he'snow on top of me, and he's now
literally doing this.
He's stabbing down, trying toend me that way.
I'm turtling up with jiu-jitsu,and I'm trying to dodge as best
as I can, and I end up flippinghim, moving to the side,

(13:17):
spreading his legs with topcontrol.
And I'm trying to find his knifehand.
So I'm feeling from his shoulderand I'm feeling all the way
down, trying to see where it isso I can stop it and I can smack
it into the ground and make himget rid of it because he's also
been slashing my back while weare doing this.

(13:37):
Unfortunately though, my leftarm, which I'd used to grab him
with initially I didn't tell itto do that.
Why did my arm just...
And then while I'm processingthis, that's when he came

(13:59):
through and stabbed me multipletimes in the abdomen and then
eviscerated me from there.
So the last thing I rememberprior to waking up in ICU was,
well, I guess that's game over.
Last thought I said to myself,well, game over.
There was no fear.
There was no, God, oh God, ohGod.
And that was just a simplematter of fact.
So yeah, that's the incident.

(14:20):
They caught him three dayslater.
The police were They wereincredibly appalled at the state
they found me in.
So they caught him three dayslater and the entire legal
process took some time.
But he was finally sentencedlast year, late last year.
Because I realized we're now in2025.

(14:41):
So I can say, yeah, he wassentenced to 10 years because he
took a plea deal.
He pled guilty.
There were cameras everywhere.
It was caught on camera,everything.
So watching it being played backto me was surreal.

SPEAKER_01 (14:53):
I can't believe they even made you.
I mean, did you want to watchthis?

SPEAKER_00 (14:57):
I didn't want to.
I had to.
You know, it's one of thosewhere.
Oh, yeah.
But yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (15:03):
Did you ever find out why he did what he did?
Did he ever say anything?
Was he on meth or was he onsomething?
drugs or what was the motivationfor this?
Did he ever say it in court?

SPEAKER_00 (15:13):
He could never look me in the eye in court.
So I could never find out what amotive was.
It was the most, I wouldn't saysurreal thing, but it was the
most frustrating thing sometimesbecause then I would wax and
wane between, I care about it.
I want to know why thishappened.
And then I go, well, I don'tcare about it.
I protected someone who wasgoing to get hurt because I

(15:35):
think he was after her and I gotin the way.
That's what I said.
suspect but we never really knewwhy it was only her second time
being at that place he workedwhere we were by the way he was
an employee there that's why hislife was a cleaver his life was
a cleaver

SPEAKER_01 (15:54):
not

SPEAKER_00 (15:55):
just a pocket knife it was cleaver because he was a
sous chef right so that's whythe damage was so

SPEAKER_01 (16:00):
expensive do you reckon there's a possibility
that that well anyways okaythat's besides the point i think
that we humans always try tofind like uh Right, right.

(16:39):
What was going through, yeah,what was really going through
your mind in this time?

SPEAKER_00 (16:42):
What was going through my mind was just, during
the fight itself, it wasgenuinely, you're on autopilot.
You know, I don't recall much ofanything other than, I need to
get that knife away from him.
And how am I going to solve thisas a puzzle?
Because to me, it was anequation.

(17:03):
Get it away from him, and oncethat's done, it'll be much
easier to deal with what'shappening.
I didn't realise just howinjured I was getting.
And also, I didn't want to betoo aggressive and end up having

(17:24):
to kill him, because that was apossibility as well.
because I was still goingthrough the immigration process.
And how would that look where,okay, you are going through this
process, you are looking to getyour green card, and oh, guess

(17:44):
what?
You've now just fatally woundedan American citizen.
How does that look?
It doesn't look good at all.
So I was holding back and tryingto use non-lethal methods of
disarming him as opposed togoing all out and going cry for
my god on him and you knowcompletely wrecking him and then
game over with you right sothat's what i was really

(18:07):
thinking at that point i wasthinking future steps of no no i
still need my green cards istill need my immigration status
to be approved i can't hurt youbadly but i need to get that
knife from you So that was mythought process.

SPEAKER_01 (18:25):
Right.
Now he leaves.
Were you conscious the wholetime when, you know, the police
came or were you able to callfor help?
How did you manage to get, youknow, pulled into the hospital
emergency?

SPEAKER_00 (18:38):
Well, just like I saved her life, she then in turn
saved mine because I passed outat that point after the blood
loss and evisceration, literallyeverything.
I was out.
But she's the one who called 911one and they couldn't find me
initially because i was half onthe sidewalk half in a flower
bed so my intestines werecovered in dirt everything was

(19:02):
just covered in dirt and mulchthey had to wash me out like
literally pull everything out orwash me out before they could
start fixing

SPEAKER_01 (19:10):
anything

SPEAKER_00 (19:11):
my god so no she's the one who then got me back
which i'm grateful for becauseit might have taken a few
minutes i think it took aboutabout four minutes for them to
arrive arrive.
Being 30 seconds longer, I wouldhave been done.
I wouldn't have been able tocome back.
The paramedics would not havebeen able to do anything.
And I needed the kind of traumacenter that you need.

(19:34):
From my location, there wereonly two.
It was Cedar Sinai and there wasProvidence in Mission Hills.
So they took me to Providenceand were literally blasting at
the highway because it was late.
It was something like 2.30 inthe morning.
There was minimal traffic andthey prepped the three surgeons
to arrive at that time.
So do you

SPEAKER_01 (19:54):
know what was the medical procedures?
Like what did they do?
So I know you mentioned thatthey washed out all the parts.
How were they able to sort oflike put it all back together
and get you functioning again atthat point?

SPEAKER_00 (20:05):
Implants and a very, very, very good team of doctors.
So I had a neurosurgeon put myhand back together and because
my nerves were completelysevered and my blood vessels
were completely severed in myhand, the neurosurgeon had to do
some very intricate work.
At the same time, he's also aplastic surgeon.
So when he stitched me up, hedid immaculate work.

(20:27):
Then I had another surgeon thatspecializes in cardiology and
blood vessel work because mybrachial artery in my arm was
completely gone.
So they had to repair that aswell, or I'd lose the bottom of
my arm.
It wouldn't matter, but the handwas fixed.
And they had to keep checkingthe blood flow to make sure the
blood flow was going.
The blood flow was going down tomy hand.

(20:47):
Otherwise, it was all fornaught.
And then I had another traumasurgeon that was working on
fixing my abdomen.
So they had to do a fullincision from about my sternum
all the way down to my pubicbone and move everything gently
aside, wash it and clean it out,and then see what was too

(21:08):
damaged to repair, cut that out,and then reconnect the intestine
ends and then put them all backin.
So it was kind of like, Ithought of it as you are
servicing a machine.
You're doing a car service.
is flopping out of parts but atthe same time you've got to do a
car wash first

SPEAKER_01 (21:28):
yeah

SPEAKER_00 (21:29):
yeah so that's how they repair me did they have to

SPEAKER_01 (21:31):
get like did they have to get any like donors for
any organs or any of the bodyparts or were they

SPEAKER_00 (21:36):
able to just a lot of blood transfusions just a lot
of blood transfusions a lot ofblood transfusions right so
fortunately I still have all mybits but they've got implants
that are for example holding mymy bowel back together in a
certain place so that it doesn'tmove around in the wrong spot
too much there was a nerveimplant in my hand so it was
able to move and there was likea thing they put into my arm as

(21:59):
well so it was able to have thatblood flow go because the first
repair was uh There's still noblood flow.
So he had to come back aboutfive minutes later, reopen it
and go, oh, that's the issue.
And then shift something andthen reassemble it.
And that's how that happened.

(22:20):
And how long

SPEAKER_01 (22:21):
did this?
Imagine.

SPEAKER_00 (22:24):
I still have my tags.
So they sit over here.
How

SPEAKER_01 (22:28):
long did this whole thing take for them to do?
I

SPEAKER_00 (22:30):
have no idea.
I just remember waking up hourslater.
Maybe it was a day or two later.

SPEAKER_01 (22:39):
Did you have any recollection of what had
happened?
Or like, did you even rememberwhat had happened?
Or were you like, where am I?
What's going on?
It

SPEAKER_00 (22:47):
was initially, where am I?
And then it was, oh, youactually made it then.
Okay, I'm awake.
That's interesting.
The second time, the first timeI woke up, I was still really
under anesthesia.
You know, when you wake up aftersurgery, you weren't quite
there.
I woke up remembering phalanx ofpeople around me all the doctors

(23:10):
all the nurses like he's wakingup he's waking up and i had my
aunt there you know she wasvisiting me at the time so she
was there and by my bedside andi remember opening my eyes
having that initial thought andgoing okay but i woke up
intubated so i still hadmachines breathing for me and
it's the most real thing havinga machine breathe for you

(23:33):
because you feel it you tryinhale and it pushes in air for
you and then at the very bottomyou feel Right.
Right.
Right.

(24:09):
When he wakes up, will he stillbe in fight or flight, or can we
leave him as is?
And my aunt was restraining him.
And she was right, because I wasliable to get up, rip everything
out.
I'd get up and leave, and I'dfall over and expire right there
and there.
I'd rip everything out and keepgoing.
I still had four machinesconnected, giving me all sorts

(24:33):
of pain medication.
I was still having this machinebreathe for me.
I was still completely hookedup.
So there was a brain swell, agood idea.
Wow.
Yeah.
It's waking up the second time.
karma.
Anesthesia has worn off a lotmore.
You can recognize a lot morepeople.

(24:54):
Now you can start to motion forthings or try to make sense of
what's just happened.

SPEAKER_01 (25:03):
My gosh, I was just like, oh, that is so
overwhelming just to listen toit.
And I know you sent me somepictures as well.
So now I'm having like littleflashes of the images that I
saw.
Yeah.
along with what you're saying.
And it's just, it's all, yeah,there's a visual element of it
too as well.
No,

SPEAKER_00 (25:21):
it starts to make a bit more sense.

SPEAKER_01 (25:24):
Yeah, exactly.
So, okay.
So you've woken up a second timeand now you've kind of
reconciled, like you'veunderstood, okay, this is what's
happened and I'm actually alive.
Firstly, the doctors must havebeen so proud that they've
actually done this andsucceeded.
They must have been like, thisis probably one of the biggest,
biggest achievements, surgeriesthat we've successfully
conducted.
Right?

SPEAKER_00 (25:44):
I don't know.
Those guys were rock stars.
And I hate to say it.
It's a trauma center.
So they must see horrificthings.
I mean, I'm high up on thatscale of, okay, well done.
Good job, everyone.
But I'm sure they've seen worse.
But I also realize that I gotincredibly lucky because I've

(26:08):
seen people get stabbed once.
once and they're dead.

SPEAKER_01 (26:13):
And not made it.

SPEAKER_00 (26:14):
I've seen the news articles and I go, then how?
How did I pull through with thelevel of injury

SPEAKER_01 (26:31):
I had when I've heard of people getting stabbed
just once?

(26:51):
voice, she may not survive.
Or something.
Were you able, did you kind ofgo back to think that they're a
connection?

SPEAKER_00 (26:57):
I've actually thought that exact same thought.
And what I've said to myself isI was a tool.
I was a tool.
And I was able to listen to whatthat voice was because I felt
compelled to.
It was a genuine, oh, okay.
And being a tool and protectingher.
Yeah.

(27:18):
is probably the reason why Imade it, as opposed to other
people being stabbed once andit's came over.
So you are absolutely right.
Absolutely right.
I think it's one of thosesituations where once you've
been given that, sure, now I'maltered for life.
I'm sure she is mentally aswell, because she had to see
what she had to see.

(27:39):
So she's a victim in this aswell.
There are no winners out of anyof this.
But that being said, I firmlybelieve that probably Yeah,
that's

SPEAKER_01 (28:00):
true.
I do want to go back to thissituation.
I want to also know more aboutthe actual situation.
But have you ever heard voicesever since then?
And have you ever kind of leanedinto those again?
Or do you feel like leaning intothis could be another very
traumatic experience?
Like, I'm not going to listen,maybe?
Right?
No,

SPEAKER_00 (28:19):
I actually haven't heard anything quite like it
again.
Not once.
I'm sure you will have the oddinstinct where you go, and I
always listen to instinct.
You know, it's okay, you'll bewalking or driving along and
something says, I'd rather takethis road than that road.
And you pay attention to it.
And then you realize that, okay,something just happened down
there.

(28:39):
And you were just payingattention to what your instincts
were telling you.
I always listen to them.
But I haven't heard anythingquite like that ever again.
Haven't heard anything about itbefore.
Never heard anything about itlike that again since.
It was just that one-off.
Would I do it again?
Yes, because I have no regrets.

(29:01):
It's one of those where, eventhough one is struggling right
now with a lot of things,rather...
that someone else is anotherstatistic, which I believe she
was going to be.
And this was a reasonably safeplace.
You know, there were a lot ofrestaurants around.

(29:21):
The academy building is directlyopposite it, just to give you an
idea.
It's in North Hollywood.
And yeah, no, that's areasonably safe area.
So for something like that tohappen in a place like that is
quite shocking.
So to hear that voice and dowhat I had to do I think was
just it was everything lining upthe way it needed to

SPEAKER_01 (29:44):
I mean you are a literal hero there is like no
other way to define or describeyou as an individual I mean the
fact that you've gone throughthat and you are sitting here
today saying I would do thatagain knowing what I know
knowing what I've been throughis like I mean it takes a very
very strong and powerful personto be able to say that because I

(30:05):
mean yeah you were at the brinkof you were at the brink of
death.
I mean, you'd gone throughsomething so traumatic.
And for you, what's moreimportant is that I saved
someone's life.
Doesn't matter what had happenedto me.
What happens is that there wassomeone that could have died in
that moment and didn't.
That's the literal definition ofit, of a hero.

SPEAKER_00 (30:26):
I'm a tool and I needed to be used as a tool to,
because maybe she's gotsomething that she's going to be
achieving in life that's greaterthan her as well.
And, you know, this could be awatershed moment for her and
help transform her life.
And perhaps there's somethingthat she wants to do that she
now has, okay, I'm actuallygoing to do this.
Maybe she could have that rippleeffect and change other people's

(30:50):
lives for the better, you know,so you never know.

SPEAKER_01 (30:52):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (30:53):
What small action will have repercussions later on
down the line.
So that's something that I thinkabout a lot.

SPEAKER_01 (31:03):
Yeah.
Has she sort of been in yourlife ever since then?
Was she around in the hospitalwhen you were going through your
recovery as well?
How present was she?

SPEAKER_00 (31:13):
No.
It was one of those situationswhere we were instructed to kind
of keep distance because wehadn't testified yet.
And we didn't want...
cross-tainting our stories whenwe were taking the stand, trying
to recollect what was happeningat pre-trial.
So it was just an initialcontacted other friend that was

(31:37):
there with us that night.
And I asked, while I was inhospital, because I finally got
my phone, and I asked, whathappened?
Because they'd been trying toget a hold of me.
And they were like, well, thisis what happened.
And I went, yeah, I thought so.
But then after that, you know,had to cut that connection until
we could communicate.

(31:57):
But we couldn't do that until acertain part of the legal
process I'd gone through.
So even when we were doing apre-trial, we couldn't talk to
each other.
We had to be in second rooms.
When she took the stand, Icouldn't be in there.
I had to be completely separate.
Vice versa as well, so that wecould see where the comparison
was and see what the story wasbecause of how serious it was.

(32:21):
Stories matched, obviously.
And in terms of our lives now,we can always pick up the phone
and say hello, but we don'treally...
We don't talk.
We don't talk at all, actually.
That's something that surprisespeople.
They go, are you guys togethernow?
Was it happily ever after?
And I go, no, she was a completestranger to me.

(32:42):
Sometimes you trauma bond,sometimes you don't.
Sometimes you are just foreverlinked by something.
And I think this is the latter.
We are forever linked by thisincident, but we didn't bond
over trauma, you know?
So there's no...
There's no relationship that'sdeeper than that, if that makes
any sense.

(33:03):
But if you can pick up thephone, I can pick up the phone
and we can just say hello.
But emotionally, there's not toomuch there.

SPEAKER_01 (33:12):
Do you reckon that if that line of conversation was
opened, if either one of you satdown and actually recollected
that moment together or talkedabout it or had like, I don't
know, find yourself in a therapysession kind of together, that
that could that would change alittle bit the dynamic maybe
sort of not necessarily that youboth need it but rather to bring

(33:35):
an end to bring a closure towhat had happened or to have a
sense of like yeah maybe maybe Idon't know whether trauma
bonding is helpful for anindividual or healing for an
individual but yeah

SPEAKER_00 (33:46):
that's an interesting question because I
don't know how much sheremembers or how much she saw
before she got to her car so Idon't know because she went
straight to her car locked thedoor Hmm.
Hmm.

(34:13):
Perhaps one day we can sit downover a coffee and have a chat
about it.
But I don't think either of ushave the impetus to right now.
I'm certainly still goingthrough my therapy sessions and
still battling with certainmental health things that are
affecting me, physical thingsthat are affecting me.

(34:35):
And I don't know just how muchshe's progressed in her journey
to be able to feel safe andcomfortable talking about these
things just yet.
So that's something to thinkabout as well.
Fair enough.

SPEAKER_01 (34:47):
Can you tell me about what after, during that
recovery process, that healingprocess, the physical aspects,
what are the things that you areliving with today?
How is sort of like just generalfunctioning happening for you
now physically?

SPEAKER_00 (35:01):
I'm in pain daily.
Even now that it's been a coupleof years, I think, yeah, it's
been, well, two years, timeflies.
It will actually be two years onthe 16th of this month, 16th
Jan, 2025.
for the listeners by hand haspartial paralysis so it's got
limitations in its dexterity andhow I can move it and how I can

(35:24):
manipulate things so I'm notgoing to be building Ikea
furniture too well let's put itthat way even trying to I
remember trying to cooksomething a few weeks ago and I
was being really really pissedoff by garlic because I'm trying
to peel garlic And I wasn'tsmashing it.

(35:45):
I was trying to cut it so I canpeel it.
And my hand got so fatigued andso painful that I had to just
stop.
And I went and bought peeledgarlic instead because I
couldn't complete it.
And sometimes it aches and wakesme up at night and it just
throbs.
I have to wear compression, acompression sleeve, because

(36:06):
again, my brachial artery wassevered and had to be
reconnected.
So I've got a big old scar uphere.
and major scars over here so myhand and arm sometimes get
tighter faster so I have to keepthem in a certain temperature
range otherwise they ache so ifit's too hot I've got to make
sure that I keep this arm coolif it's too cold I have to wear

(36:28):
a compression glove or a normalglove and a compression sleeve
underneath what I'm wearing so Ican keep the arm in a certain
temperature range which is itssweet spot abdomen wise yeah
that one is annoying becauseafter these so careful now what
I do with my core because myhernia risk is so much higher

(36:48):
and sometimes my abdominalmuscles will spasm they'll lock
or when I try and lie down orwhen I try and move a certain
way especially underneath myscar there's a fair amount of
pain and discomfort that happensin that area when it all hits at
once that's going to be a badnight is what I realise there's

(37:10):
nothing much I can do about theabdomen other than just taking
out sprint and wait if mydiaphragm locks or if one of my
abs because it'll be onetightens and doesn't relax while
the others relax or the bottomone will tighten and doesn't
relax while the others relax ortwo will offset and you end up
in this weird asymmetricsituation where i'm hunched over

(37:33):
like an old man and i can'tstraighten up because if i do
it's just agony so like you knowwhen you get um ramp or yeah
what do they call it like acharlie's horse or whatever they
call it.
I don't know.
You just ramp up and you can'tmove.
It's like that.
And then when it's like that,it's bad.
But sometimes it's just reallypainful internally where you

(37:56):
know, okay, this is now on theinside.
It's not the muscle.
It's the inside that is aching.
So one deals with that and somedietary issues as well now.
So that is the general gist ofthe physical.
In addition to all the otherscars that I had to take this
staples out.
I didn't have staples to bestaples at that point.

(38:19):
Getting those taken out, wemissed one.
Nurse, we missed

SPEAKER_01 (38:24):
one.
One more here, please.

SPEAKER_00 (38:26):
We actually had that.
We thought we had them all.
And then I'm lying back down andI realise, oh no, we have it.
Oh no, we have it.
Coming back from hospital, itwas wide open and it had to
close on its own.
Otherwise, it gets septicbecause there's fluid drainage
there.
So that was interesting to saythe least.
I'm

SPEAKER_01 (38:46):
bedridden

SPEAKER_00 (38:48):
and I've got galls packed into that wound.
So the picture that you sawwhere it was wide open heading
down, that was what we had topack with galls and then wrap
around with this really tightelastic and then wait.
So that took months for that toclose up.
And I've got a nice scar fromhere all the way down, all the

(39:11):
way here, and then scarseverywhere else.
Psychologically I can tell you,looking at yourself from the
mirror now, because my stomachis now two halves.
I've got a left hemisphere and aright hemisphere because the
scar goes right down my middle.
So sometimes, you know, I'll go,well, I guess that six-pack will
never return.

(39:31):
But, you know, that's thephysical at the moment.

SPEAKER_01 (39:33):
Yeah.
You mentioned that yourintestines basically had come
out.
So in terms of what are some ofthe effects of that, like if
you're damaged on theintestines, other than like
digestion or diets youmentioned?
How

SPEAKER_00 (39:48):
else does that work?
comes to, okay, now I'm crampingbecause my intestines aren't

(40:10):
happy.
So there are three types ofcramp.
It'll be cramping because I'msitting in a certain position
and it's moved my internalbowels in a certain way that
they are pressing up againsteach other in a way they don't
like.
There's the bloating from whenyou eat something and then it
just, no, that's not fun.
And then there's the muscleparts, which I've explained

(40:31):
earlier with that individualback and forth spasming, which
means when I'm trying to doexercise, for example.
everything starts with yourcore.
You don't realize how much youdo with your core when you
exercise, right?
If you're doing it properly.
So with the increased herniarisk, and I could feel it
opening sometimes, like the topbit near my sternum, I can feel

(40:53):
the scar start to stretch if I'mnot careful, or the bottom bit
start to bulk out.
Sometimes it blisters becauseit's keloided, so I've got to
look after that now.
And then the blister bursts, andthen it's just a whole thing
that you deal with later.
So...

SPEAKER_01 (41:10):
Were there some things that the doctors
basically warned you to bereally careful of, be mindful
of, like what to do, what not todo?
Even in terms of exercise, didthey tell you like minimal
exercise or no exercise or whatkind of things?

SPEAKER_00 (41:24):
Honestly, the trauma surgeons and all of that didn't
give me much of anything.
They just said, yeah, just watchout for the hernia risk.
That's about it.
And I've had to feel my waythrough and rediscover what my
body now can.
and can't do so for example Ican't hold a weight a certain

(41:45):
way otherwise it presses up toomuch on the inside of my hand I
found that I can't use a saltand pepper grinder like you know
when you grind something likethat so I've had to buy electric
ones which are amazing by theway you need to get those push a
button there goes your salt pushanother button there goes your
pepper they are brilliantamazing so no they never really

(42:08):
gave me any instructions My PT,my physiotherapist, he gave me
some instruction.
Certain things that youshouldn't be doing, for example,
twisting motions, like when youdo Roman twists with the ball,
forget it.
That's a bad idea.
Holding things a certain way,don't think about it.
And I found that with time, Idon't know if some of your

(42:30):
listeners will relate to this,but neurologically, if I'm not
concentrating that I havesomething in my left hand which
is getting worse don't know whyit's gotten worse maybe it's the
cold maybe it's not I will dropit because it will disconnect my
brain.
So I have to be aware that I'mholding something.

(42:52):
Or if I'm reaching for somethingwith my left hand and it's a bad
day for it, sometimes I willknock what I'm trying to pick up
first before I can scramble.
So I find myself thinking, okay,I'll reach with my, no, safety
first, because you will knockeverything out the medicine
cabinet when you try and getthat toothpaste with your left
hand, even though it reachesyour right.

(43:13):
So it's things like that thatyou have to think about.
And then bracing it when itcomes.
what it needs to be.

SPEAKER_01 (43:18):
Right.
In a sense, do you find that tobe really frustrating because
you're constantly having toremember and remind yourself of
the trauma that maybe you don'twant to always think about so at
the forefront every single time?
Do you find that to befrustrating or do you find it
the opposite where you'reactually appreciating that, hey,
I've developed a new sense ofself-awareness that I never used

(43:40):
to before?
How do you view it?

SPEAKER_00 (43:42):
It's actually a weird combination of both.
When it's affecting me mentallybecause I feel the limitation
and I feel it's now gettingtired.
I need to compensate now in adifferent way or I need to just
stop and call it.
And it's affecting me mentallyin a negative way.
That's not good because then Istart to feel I'm heading into a

(44:05):
dangerous headspace.
But then there are also dayswhere I go, well, I guess I just
learned something new todayabout myself and I can laugh at
myself.
Whichever one comes depends onhow the day has been going.
You know?
So it really does vary.
But I have both.
I have both.

SPEAKER_01 (44:21):
Yeah.
So that's what we're going tosegue into the next question
about the mental and theemotional and the psychological
sort of processing of all ofthis over the time, over these
two years.
Walk me through that wholejourney of how that's been for
you.

SPEAKER_00 (44:38):
It's been absolute hell.
It's worse than the physical.
And the pain that I felt duringrecovery and in the hospital was
some of the worst pain I've everfelt in my life.
couple of days, I was curled upin the fetal position,
vibrating.
I was in such pain.
I couldn't speak.
I couldn't move.
All I could do was vibrate.

(44:58):
I'd much rather take that thanhave to deal with the mental and
the emotional pain that I oncehad to deal with.
And I call it pain becausethat's what it feels like.
It's a combination of the body'sbeen hurt and the mind has been
fractured and hurt as well.
And trying to piece that backtogether...

(45:18):
It's still one of the biggestchallenges of my life.
And I fail often.
And I fail hard.
And when I do, it's quitedestructive.
So there's still a long way forme to come back.
I didn't realize just how hardthis would be.
This is the hard bit.

SPEAKER_01 (45:37):
How do you find generally that you respond to
it?
Do you let out a cry?
Do you shout and scream?
What does it look like to you?
How does it manifest for you?
I

SPEAKER_00 (45:48):
definitely I'm not one who shouts and screams very
much, although I did do a kindof a retreat where we were
encouraged to, but you couldn'thear each other.
Everyone was wearing headphones,so you couldn't hear each other
scream, which was interesting.
That had some release.
But typically, if I'm feelingemotional about something or I'm

(46:08):
feeling fundamentally broken,because that's what the feeling
is.
It's a feeling of being broken.
That's what it's bad for me.
I feel broken.
Being able to sit with somethingand just silently sob.
I allow myself that.
I allow those tears to flowbecause if I fight them, then

(46:29):
I'm only fighting myself at thatpoint.
And I do that enough already.
You know, we self-punish enoughalready.
And at that point, you reallyshouldn't have no choice but to
release.
So yeah, I will allow myself tocry.
I will allow myself to feel sad.
But then there are other thingsthat are very healthy you know

(46:49):
there are times when I'm feelingjust in such a way that I don't
leave my bedroom for days ordays never mind the house my
bedroom

SPEAKER_01 (46:58):
for

SPEAKER_00 (46:58):
days because you feel a deep sense of shame you
feel trapped in your own mindsometimes and you you feel like
you can't do anything right andthen why isn't everything
getting better and then you knowthen your body hurts and then
it's a vicious cycle that takesyou round and round so yeah the
mental aspect is tough really isthe emotional.

UNKNOWN (47:23):
Right.

SPEAKER_01 (47:24):
how has therapy sort of been helping you and what
were some things that you'vewhat are some revelations you've
had in therapy

SPEAKER_00 (47:31):
we've been trying a lot of things with my therapist
because certain things werebetter than others so we've
tried our EMDR we've tried justtalking it out and letting that
go through and we've triedbreath work the power of the
inhale exhale we've doneeverything in the book depending

(47:53):
on what I was feeling feeling atthe time and what would be the
most effective at the time.
And as one has evolved, I mean,I'm still not better, not by a
long shot, but I've gottenbetter than what I was.
So as one has evolved, themethods have evolved.
So now talking is usually reallygood.

SPEAKER_01 (48:13):
Do you find that in those moments that now you've
kind of, like when you'refeeling exceptionally vulnerable
in certain moments, that you'reable to, in that moment, turn to
someone a partner a familymember a friend someone that you
know you feel safe with and saythis is where I'm at right now
mentally and emotionally likeand kind of take in or accept

(48:36):
the you know the other voice ofreason the other voice of
support to help you lift out ofit I

SPEAKER_00 (48:44):
have people who I could reach out to the problem
is not feeling like a burdenbecause when you are wired the
way I am when you reach out tosomeone with something as heavy
as this, and you are coming withsome powerful emotions or some
just really, really deepfeelings, they are expensive to
process for the other person aswell, because if they are

(49:06):
holding space for you, it alsocosts them a little bit of
something, even though it alsocosts you something.
So not wanting to be a burdenkind of acts as a hurdle to
reaching out.
And I'm sure what happens tomany, many people, but once you
are able to get over that, thatfact, even if it's just leaving

(49:26):
a message to someone, I've beenable to do that.
I will also say that some ofthese AI tools that one can use
offline aren't bad either.
I've got some local models thatI run locally on my computer or
on my phone, and I willliterally chat to an AI chatbot

(49:47):
and say, I'm feeling like this,this, this, and this, and this.
It's a weird way to journal, butto me, it keeps my privacy
because it's running locally onmy machine so I know that it's
not adding up on a cloudsomewhere and it's just another
tool in the arsenal for when Ifeel no one's available and I
don't feel like being a burdento bother someone to be
available so that's

SPEAKER_01 (50:08):
actually super interesting because I mean AI
has been the talk of like youknow the recent days and I
haven't had a single person evercome up to me and tell me that
they've ever used AI for anemotional support but I can
imagine it being quitesupportive yeah

SPEAKER_00 (50:23):
exactly It's really interesting.
You run it through there.
And yeah, for me personally,it's something that I've been
doing recently.
I didn't start my journey withit, but I find that it does help
augment.
When I have the wherewithal andthe...
I don't want to say stability,but yeah, when I have the

(50:44):
wherewithal and the emotionalstability and the mindfulness to
reach out, because sometimes youjust can't settle enough to
meditate.
You can't settle enough to dobreath work.
You can't settle to dosomething.
You need to just talk.
So that's something that I foundas a useful tool as well.
And I'm sure other people do thesame.

SPEAKER_01 (51:03):
That's amazing.
So next question for you is,what did you think when the
jury, when the decision was madeabout the, what was it, I forgot
the word that I wanted to say,conviction?
What was the ruling on thedecision about him?
10-year sentencing.
What were your thoughts on that?

(51:24):
Did you feel relieved?
Did you feel that that was afair ruling?

SPEAKER_00 (51:29):
Well, that was a rough week because I knew that
the sentencing was coming.
I knew he'd taken a plea deal,so there wasn't going to be a
trial, there wasn't going to bea jury, there was going to be
none of that.
He was just going to plead andthen be sentence.
So they're guilty.
But because they were able toprove some mental instability
that night on his own part, theyreduced it from attempted murder

(51:53):
one, which would have carried amaximum of 21 years, to
attempted murder two, whichmeant a maximum of 10 years.
But they were able to do thegrievous bodily injury.
So it helped the sentencingguidelines just because of how
bad it was.
So when you are going throughsentencing, You as the victim
are allowed to do a victimimpact statement.

(52:15):
And anyone that has beenaffected negatively by your
experience as well.
And I knew that the date wascoming.
I knew the date was coming.
I knew the date was coming.
And I put it off and I put itoff and I put it off because I
didn't know what to write.
Couldn't figure it out.
Didn't want to approach it.
Couldn't approach it.
And then the morning of, themorning of, I was able to put

(52:37):
something to paper and stood outso that my roommate would have
of copy because she too has hadto live with me and that's been
tough and you know the judge wasthe nicest judge I have ever
encountered incrediblyempathetic and it just allowed

(52:57):
me the time and I read from itand And as I was reading from
it, he's sitting just overthere.
Again, he could never look at mein court.
So he was in his orange jumpsuitand he's just looking down and
he's just looking down.
You know, he kept his mouthshut, didn't look at me at all,
not even when I came up.

(53:17):
And for me, I was just, I was ashonest as I could with that,
with that.
And I just said, I hope you getthe help you need and find a
measure of peace because rightnow that's what we all need.
That's what I ended with.

SPEAKER_01 (53:34):
If you could have a chance to see him today, face to
face, what would you want to sayto him?

SPEAKER_00 (53:38):
I haven't really thought about that.
I haven't really thought aboutthat.
I would probably lead withsomething like, how's your
healing?
There's obviously something thathe's had to heal from or that he
was damaged from, whether he wasnuts, whether he wasn't, whether
he was angry, whether he wasn't,I don't know.

(53:59):
but I would lead with compassionfirst.
Then I would lead with the why,because now I have him in front
of me.
So if I were to see him, I'dstart with, how's your healing?
And that has so many meaningsand so many connotations that
it's also a question that I'd besilently asking myself at the
same time.
So that I'm able to set myselfup for what the rest of the

(54:23):
conversation will look like.

SPEAKER_01 (54:25):
Yeah.
What do you think, and I'm goingto have this be one of my last
questions.
What do you think he could say,one, to either push you in that
direction towards healing andforgiving, and what do you think
he could say to send you on anegative spiral?

SPEAKER_00 (54:44):
What

SPEAKER_01 (54:44):
are the possibilities of things that he
can say

SPEAKER_00 (54:47):
that can push you?
What

SPEAKER_01 (54:49):
are the

SPEAKER_00 (54:49):
possibilities?
Yeah.
I'm not quite sure what he coulddo to send me on healing.
Maybe, I think, starting with...

SPEAKER_01 (54:57):
Like, do you think if he was to genuinely say, I am
so, so sorry for everything...
Do you think that that wouldhelp?

SPEAKER_00 (55:04):
It'd be a start.
But then I'd go, so what haveyou done about it?
What have you done to atone forit?
Because you can say, I'm deeply,deeply sorry and genuinely mean
it.
But then I believe that, okay,you can apologize for something,
but then you have to make it upsomehow.
Try to balance the scales, youknow?

(55:24):
So have you gone and, I don'tknow, finished a degree or gone
and started a youth program orwhatever you've done?
to try and balance the karmascales.
And what would send me on aspiral would probably be, I'd
say it's probably something thathas to do with my self-worth,
whatever that would be at thetime.

(55:45):
Perhaps he says something thatundermines the work that one has
been doing.
He goes and says something thatsets me back in terms of my
self-worth, whether it's thephysical or the mental or the
emotional.
I think that would would be oneof the triggers there.

SPEAKER_01 (56:08):
So Bibi, last question.
Tell us where are you at now interms of your career, in terms
of your journey, in terms of,you know, you're sitting here
today sharing your journey onair with us.
So I want to know sort of likewhere you stand today.

SPEAKER_00 (56:22):
Where I stand is still marching forward.
You know, I posted something onmy social a week ago that said,
feet on the ground, head in theclouds or in the sky.
Eyes forward.
so I'm still working on thehealing I'm still working on my
mental health I'm still workingon getting better because it's a

(56:43):
journey and I can definitely saythat I'm not quite there yet so
still working on that where Ican and when it comes to work
and the career and all of thatwell I'm only just starting to
come back so we are hoping thatthis year is going to be a
decent year and we have someluck and some success which has
been a lot better than it hasbeen the last couple of years

(57:04):
I'm hoping for good fortune andto balance the scales because I
think my debts, not my physicaldebts, those are very high.
I think my debts have been paid.
So now the universe has an IOUfor me, please.

SPEAKER_01 (57:18):
Vivi, I really, really appreciate you being on
the podcast with us today.
And I really hope that you getto writing a book.
You might even want to use thatchat GPT to help you put
together all of that journalingand help you to write this book.
If you do get to it, please dosend over the links.
I I am definitely going to getmy hands on that future book of
yours and also for our listenersas well.

(57:39):
So yeah, I really, reallyappreciate you sharing this on
air.

SPEAKER_00 (57:43):
It's been an absolute pleasure and I really
appreciate you giving me thespace and your listeners giving
me the space to hear what's beenhappening.
Thank you for staying with methis entire time, especially
when I will ramble a bit and Iappreciate you all.

UNKNOWN (58:03):
Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 (58:04):
If you enjoyed the episode and would like to help
support the show, please followand subscribe.
You can rate and review yourfeedback on any of our platforms
listed in the description.
I'd like to recognize our guestswho are vulnerable and open to
share their life experienceswith us.
Thank you for showing us we arehuman.
Also, a thank you to our teamwho worked so hard behind the
scenes to make it happen.

SPEAKER_00 (58:25):
The

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072 Surviving 15 Stab Wounds - Story of Resilience

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}072 Surviving 15 Stab Wounds - Story of Resilience