March 29, 2025 • 43 mins
How does a narcissist manipulate someone to the point of losing themselves? Corine knows firsthand. After years in a toxic relationship with a narcissistic partner, she not only lost herself but also her connection with her two children. In this eye-opening episode of Multispective, she breaks down the traits of a narcissist, the subtle and dangerous ways they manipulate, and the warning signs to watch for. Most importantly, she shares how to protect yourself from falling into the same trap.
🎧 Tune in for vital insights and empowering advice on recognizing and escaping narcissistic abuse.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
And let me tell you something, Janika, there are
many people who commit suicideas a result of this.
When you're making love to them,they know how to act, but they
don't consider you and yourneeds and your desires and your
(00:22):
feelings.
Your intuition never genital.
And anybody listen to this,never, and I'm sure people know
this, never guide you wrong.
Whose actions, and that's whereyou could tell a distinction,
the actions over the words.
People could tell you anything,but your actions must be
(00:46):
consistent with your words.
The promises that are unkept.
SPEAKER_02 (00:58):
Hi, Kareem.
Welcome to Multispective.
I am so excited to have you onair with us.
It's
SPEAKER_01 (01:04):
great to be here.
It's great to be here.
Thank you so much for invitingme.
SPEAKER_02 (01:08):
Yeah, you know, you have a really interesting story.
I think it's a topic that peopleare talking about now more than
ever.
So where does it all begin foryou?
SPEAKER_01 (01:17):
Girl, I don't even know.
It was before I was born,clearly, so I have no idea.
But when I realized it, and itwe're talking about is getting
involved with a narcissist.
Of course, he will not say that.
As we say in the Caribbean, afisherman never says his fish
rotten when a fisherman sellingyou a fish he will never say
rotten fish rotten fish he willnever do that so you know people
(01:44):
will not admit and they wouldactually project that's a you
know i'm sure people have heardthe term projection they will
actually project it onto you andsay you are the narcissist and
convince you in your state thatyou are actually the one at
fault you are the one that'sunhealthy i was i was told that
i need help And I was like, Iknow I ain't crazy.
(02:07):
I mean, I'm crazy, but I ain'tcrazy.
You know, and they will convinceyou of these things.
And when I say they, theyrepresent your spouse, your
husband, your guy who you'rewith, the woman who you're with,
because it's not attached or itdoesn't discriminate with a
(02:27):
particular gender or sex.
You know, it could be a mother.
It could be a father.
It could be a friend.
It could be a boss at work.
It could be a colleague at workbecause it has happened to me,
not just in a personal intimaterelationship.
(03:03):
I have discovered from my ownexperience is that you have a
wound and if you don't take careof that it can get infected
bacteria could crawl in theirgerms or kind of creepy crawly
things and it gets worse it getsyou know as I said infected and
that's what they are
SPEAKER_00 (03:21):
they
SPEAKER_01 (03:22):
infect you because you have an open wound that you
haven't taken care of now what
SPEAKER_02 (03:26):
that wound
SPEAKER_01 (03:27):
is that wound is something from your childhood
that you haven't discoveredMm-hmm.
(04:03):
here.
There is something that they arepicking up about you or in you
and they decide, narcissist,they decide that they are going
to manipulate and take advantageof that.
Just like a germ or bacteria, itsees a host, you, and it's going
(04:26):
to infiltrate that and do allthis lovely magic and take
housing, build a wholecondominium and start to do
things.
Eventually, after a while, justlike with that wound, when it
becomes infected, you start tohave symptoms.
You start to get a little shaky,shivery, you know, things start
(04:46):
happening to you.
And that is what's startedhappening to me.
Is that a question?
So would you say that
SPEAKER_02 (04:53):
this kind of like your very first narcissistic
experience was with a spouse,with a partner, or does it go
back before that even?
SPEAKER_01 (05:01):
No, no, no.
The first time I recognized it,and notice I said recognize it.
It's not that, you see, becauseyou don't know what you don't
know.
When I recognized it was when Icame out of that 27-year
relationship.
I wasn't married, 27 years withtwo children, two boys.
I didn't know.
It was when I came out of that27-year relationship.
(05:23):
I don't know.
This is why I tell you I blameGod for it.
All of a sudden, I am just on mylaptop and I think, I don't
know, something just showed up.
And I read it.
And, Jenica, to this day, Icouldn't pass the first
paragraph of that article.
The first paragraph, I don'teven think I read the first
paragraph.
(05:44):
The first few lines was my life.
I saw things in the first fewlines and I was literally
bawling.
It was like if it was livingwith me, the words in that
article was living with me inthe house with the person I was
with.
It was seeing the things thatwas happening in my life.
(06:04):
Just
SPEAKER_02 (06:04):
for context so our listeners can understand,
because I have done episodesbefore of people who've
experienced living with or beingvery close to someone with
narcissism, but the experiencehas always been somewhat
different for different people.
I
SPEAKER_01 (06:19):
remember having a situation in the house with him.
(06:48):
You know, like when you watch inslow motion in a movie,
everything just goes slow.
So it was like everything justgoing slow.
So he was passing by me after hesaid what he said.
And I saw the smirk on his face.
It was a smirk.
It was like...
(07:10):
I got you.
You know, a sort ofsatisfaction, sort of a smirk.
And it resonated somehow withme.
And when I saw the article, andI mean, that was many years ago,
I remember that article, Ithink, saying something about
they have this smirk.
It's only God that got me out ofthis because I...
(07:31):
You see, when you don't have arelationship spiritually, then
the flesh, the people in yourlife will take over.
But you have to have thatstrength within you to know.
(07:51):
What is the truth from whatisn't?
And so you have to, and why am Isaying that is about your
intuition.
Your intuition never, andanybody listen to this, never,
and I'm sure people know this,never guides you wrong.
And when my intuition, I call itthe spirit, said to me, watch,
(08:11):
and I saw it on the side, I waslike, I felt something churn
inside of me.
I have to find that article.
I'm sure it was something, it'seither somebody sent me
something or I found it or itwas some, I don't know.
SPEAKER_02 (08:25):
But
SPEAKER_01 (08:25):
I have to somehow find it.
It's hard to really pin down aparticular instance.
There were just a number ofinstances.
But it was, I don't even blamehim.
I don't, and this is a lesson Iwant to get across to your
listeners.
We tend to focus on thenarcissist.
(08:46):
You see, when you do that,you're giving them more power.
You're making them feel thatthey're all that in a bag of
chips plus the factory which iswhat I say but it is not that
you have to focus on you andhealing that wound you have to
focus on why is it that theypicked you because they selected
you you were chosen becausethere are many other people over
(09:09):
there but they picked you whyokay if you don't work on you
you're going to keep attractingthe same type of people they
will take a different shape formcolors But it's the same thing.
So I want people to take awayfrom this.
The focus is on you.
(09:29):
Yes, we know that people do yourthings, whatever.
But why?
Why are they doing it?
Put a stop to it by working onyourself.
Because you can't change them.
No matter how you quarrel,fight, cuss, whatever, you
cannot change them.
The only person who you havecontrol over is you.
So take that amount of energythat you're putting and giving
(09:51):
to them.
Mm-hmm.
I'm telling you, that's straightwhat
SPEAKER_00 (10:09):
it is.
SPEAKER_01 (10:10):
You will sleep and you know this.
And I will tell you how you knowthis.
And this is getting raw here.
When you're making love to them,they know how to act.
But they don't consider you andyour needs and your desires and
your feelings.
It's not reciprocal.
It's all about them.
Because they need it.
They need it.
(10:33):
So you really have been involvedwith a corpse.
Triller.
You know, Michael Jackson, thevideo, Triller.
You really have been in for it.
And that might sound sad or raw,but I'm telling you it's the
truth.
Because they have no remorse.
They have no feeling.
You might think, but it's ahuman being and there's blood
running through their veins.
(10:53):
Yes, but no.
They have not.
SPEAKER_02 (10:55):
Can you tell me a time where you felt like
dismissed or you felt like youwere made to feel unimportant
or, you know, where you werefeeling triggered, where on
reflection, you kind ofrealized, actually, that was an
act of narcissism.
In a way, that was an act
SPEAKER_01 (11:12):
of what...
(11:37):
or triggers or heightens yourawareness, it's a goner.
I probably would not have stayedthe 27 years if somebody or
something had come to myattention.
But
SPEAKER_02 (11:52):
do you recall feeling unhappy when you were
SPEAKER_01 (11:55):
in the relationship?
I wasn't working at the time.
Well, I was working for aparticular period of time.
And then, well, when we had kidsand he said, Corinne, you know,
(12:16):
I think it's best if you stay athome, you know, because I prefer
the mother of my kids to be homeas opposed to a stranger, you
know, and he will take care ofeverything.
That's what he said to me.
And I said to myself, wow, isn'tthat love?
You know, he appreciates mebeing there with the kids.
And yeah, it making sense I meanthis is a man in your life the
(12:40):
father of your kids you'reliving with him it makes sense
Jenica yeah and he says he willtake care because he was in a
solid job good paying job andeverything and yeah I was
already dealing with all thisstuff and of course any man
would feel safer knowing thatthe mother of his children is
with the kids in the house so Isaid okay and No, sweetie, don't
(13:02):
be fooled.
That was a strategic move for meto be dependent on him for the
rest of my life.
To be crippled.
And at the time, I wasn'tthinking that.
And when you hear other women'sstories, you will hear the same
thing.
You know, you give up your job,you give up everything, and you
end up not being able or notthinking that you could leave
(13:24):
when you really think you would.
Because you're like, what am Igoing to do?
Where am I going to go?
I don't have any money.
I have to ask It's
SPEAKER_02 (13:31):
a
SPEAKER_01 (13:34):
strategic move.
So don't ever leave your job nomatter what he says.
Don't give up anything that youhave been doing and enjoying no
matter what he or she says.
Don't.
It is a strategic move.
And don't ever allow your mindto tell you, oh, isn't that
sweet?
He loves me or she loves me.
SPEAKER_02 (13:54):
No.
SPEAKER_01 (13:54):
Because anybody who truly loves you will want you to
continue doing the things youenjoy and will support you.
in uplifting you and getting youto do even more and challenging
yourself.
But instead it was the other wayaround under the guise of care
and love and concern whenthere's no such thing.
So when it was time for me toleave or when I felt it was time
(14:16):
for me to leave and I hadenough, of course I went through
that trauma of where am I goingto go?
What am I going to do?
And then when I sat down becauseI was still making money online,
right?
I was still doing that.
I realized I was still, I waspaying for us to travel you know
because I'm not a person whowould just sit down and twiddle
my thumbs and take care ofchildren they go to school
(14:37):
during the day I could be doingsomething so I found online
things to do and I was stillcovering the the cable and the
phone and stuff like that so Iwas paying so that even though I
was made to feel and told otherpeople I wasn't doing crap in
the house I wasn't contributingyou know and I realized I was
paying for travel I was stilltraveling I was covering things
(15:00):
in the home the kids were stillgoing to school.
We were still paying the schoolfees, you know.
I was like, but Corinne, if youcould do that, then you could
manage.
It mightn't be...
At the best, you'll have toprobably start over, but you're
not starting from ground zero.
And then lucky for me, I'mTrinidadian.
(15:21):
I had my other country to comehome to, even though I would
have to come back to my mother'shouse, which is not a good thing
as an adult.
But you do what you have to dountil you could scrape yourself
back up and build back up.
So you have to get a little twodose or 10 doses of humility,
swallow your little pride if youhave any of it after dealing
(15:42):
with that sort of relationship.
and build yourself back up.
But I can promise anyonelistening to this, you will
build yourself back up.
All you need is to believe andhave the will.
And listen, angels are amongstus.
Angels are amongst us.
And I know there are things thatsome people will have to do to
make it.
(16:02):
There's no judgment here, atleast for me, right?
Do what you need to do tosurvive for another day.
Once it is legal, once it issafe, and doesn't put you in
harm or anybody else in harm soyou can't make it
SPEAKER_02 (16:18):
yeah at what point did you kind of start making
your boundaries very clear withhim at what point did you start
to kind of like stand up foryourself a little bit more or
did you kind of was it just likei read that article and boom
like i went from being anall-giving wife partner to just
leaving like bam one day
SPEAKER_01 (16:38):
remember the article came after i left so i couldn't
i couldn't apply that before i
SPEAKER_00 (16:43):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (16:44):
But there were instances where I put my foot
down on certain things.
And I realized when I look backnow, I was a bit stronger
earlier in the relationship andthen got weak over time
SPEAKER_02 (16:56):
and
SPEAKER_01 (16:57):
then got to reclaim myself a little bit after some
years.
So when I look back, I'm like,at what point?
And people have asked me this.
At what point did it change?
Did it switch?
And I really can't say.
It is a subtle move.
And I use the example of thefrog in the The frog in the
water, you're turning up theheat under him and he doesn't
(17:18):
know that it's getting hot andhe's cooking and he's dying in
there.
But he's just gotten so used tothe temperature because it's
been a slow turn of the heat.
He doesn't tell the difference.
And that is what they do.
It's very insidious.
You know, you have no idea thatlittle by little is happening.
So when you ask somebody who hasbeen in that type of
(17:39):
relationship, when they can'tsay, at least for me, I can't
say.
All I remember is that I wasstronger in the earlies and
something happened over time.
And then I reclaimed myself.
So there's a little flicker oflight that's in you that remains
there, even though it's not out.
(18:00):
It's not out.
It's only out if you allow it tobe out.
And that flicker is what thatflame started to get a little
bit brighter, a little bitbrighter, a little bit brighter.
And things that I did, thingsthat I did was like when I, you
know he would come home and hewould make statements like what
he did you know like I keep aroof over here and I you know
(18:26):
lucky for you whatever whateveryou know I'm like hold on I
don't walk about as a woman hereI cook the food I even said to
him I said you need a medal forthat or something you know I
just couldn't get it you knowsome things were just not
connecting.
Nobody's supposed to boast orcome around or walk into the
(18:49):
house boasting about what theydid, which is what you're
supposed to do.
You're on the mind
SPEAKER_02 (18:54):
of the house.
SPEAKER_01 (18:55):
You're supposed to provide.
Nobody comes, I'm providing foryou and I'm this and I'm taking
care of the kids.
I'm making sure everybody goesto school.
I'm like, shocker.
That's what you're supposed todo.
Do you need a medal?
And I said it to him.
I said, you sound like you needa medal.
And all what I'm saying to you,Janika, is what I I have read or
seen in a video as a result ofeducating myself coming out of
(19:19):
the relationship.
People have said these things.
They will boast about thingsthat they're supposed to be
doing or they should be doing astheir role, as their
responsibility.
And you're like, you need amedal?
You need a trophy?
SPEAKER_02 (19:34):
Can you talk to me a little bit about the role of
fear in this relationship?
And I say fear because would yousay that fear played a part in
you kind of giving into a Wouldyou say fear was the reason why
you didn't want to leave or youdidn't leave that relationship
for so long?
And is that a common thing thatnarcissists tend to do, like
instill fear in their target
SPEAKER_01 (19:54):
person?
Fear is...
Fear is the root of all thethings that manifest itself.
It is the root.
If you keep asking why, why,why, why, why, why, it's fear.
And fear manifests itself inyour lack of self-worth.
(20:15):
If you ask somebody, do you loveyourself?
You'll say, of course I do.
But what's their actions?
It doesn't match.
Because if you love yourself,you will not allow somebody to
do those type of things.
You will not allow somebody ortalk to you the way they talk to
(20:43):
you.
is making you self-doubt fear ismaking you not care for yourself
(21:04):
like you're used to so you'reused to go and do your pedicures
manicures do your hair treatyourself well go shopping you're
not feeling to get up out of itlittle things you know and you
notice the change so yes fear isis a manipulative tool strategy
tactic that they use and like Isaid it manifests itself in all
(21:24):
different ways they use it evenfor the kids So I was actually
going to
SPEAKER_02 (21:29):
ask you this next.
What was the role of your kids?
How did it affect
SPEAKER_01 (21:33):
your kids?
It was always fear-based.
They could never do enough.
Even if they excelled, it wasnever good enough.
Not that he excelled,
SPEAKER_00 (21:43):
but
SPEAKER_01 (21:43):
they never did enough.
They would get A's or whateverit is.
It was never enough.
So does he have a relationshipwith the kids right now?
Well, he took them over.
SPEAKER_02 (21:58):
Okay.
Can you walk
SPEAKER_01 (21:59):
me through what happened?
He took them over and convertedthem over on his side.
But again, I don't blame himbecause my son is going to be 30
this year.
When they're young, this isgoing to be 22.
They're not babies, the eldest.
Well, he's here with me inTrinidad now and he just stopped
(22:19):
talking to me.
SPEAKER_02 (22:21):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (22:22):
Have nothing to do with me.
So I have turned into the evilwitch, as we say in the
Caribbean or in of that you makechildren but you can't make
their mind you know they have achoice and if they choose to go
that route that's up to them youknow we each have to live our
lives but man
SPEAKER_02 (22:41):
like what was the reason for why is it because
there was a narrative that thatyour part
SPEAKER_01 (22:47):
I cannot explain Jenica I cannot explain what a
narcissist mind does it'stwisted I cannot explain it
right the fact that it's twistedI you could, as a man, I would
just put it in this way.
Women give birth to children,not the man.
(23:10):
And a man knowing that shouldnever turn their children
against the mother.
Under no circumstances.
I don't care if she's a drugdealer, a prostitute.
I don't care what she is.
Human You must never do thatbecause he as a man came from a
(23:32):
woman.
We all came
SPEAKER_02 (23:35):
from
SPEAKER_01 (23:36):
a woman and it is just not right.
So just that in itself to stopthe mother of your children from
having a relationship becausethe mother decides she doesn't
want to have anything to do withyou.
You're selling a narrative thatthey probably buy into.
I don't know whatever that Ihave abandoned them that I I am
(23:58):
just the worst on this planet.
And just the fact that somebodycould do that is evidence,
Jenica, to me that something isdefinitely wrong with that
individual.
Because I would never, if it'sthe reverse, I would never keep
my children away from theirfather.
But the decisions I had to takeas a result of that is to
(24:23):
safeguard me or else I would bepulled in to the situation
again.
You see, what they don'trealize, but what I know, is
that they are being used aspawns, you know, like a
chessboard.
They are being used as pawns,but they don't know that.
I do.
Okay?
They are being moved along thechessboard for his purpose.
(24:47):
He doesn't love them.
He has no interest in themexcept to be used as pawns.
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_02 (25:24):
That's
SPEAKER_01 (25:26):
my father.
And I'm not bad talking him.
I'm talking things that theyknow, things that they
experience.
But in their mind, that's myfather.
If it was reversed, that's mymother.
So you never do it.
And all these things areevidence of the manipulation and
control.
So much so that he comes toTrinidad.
(25:52):
The father comes to Trinidadwith my youngest son, because
remember the eldest is back herenow, with my youngest son, stays
at my mother's house, and I'mnot allowed to be at my mother's
house.
And how does your mom allowthat?
Because she encourages it.
The first time it happened yearsago, And I was such in a
(26:15):
desperate place to see myyoungest son at the time.
Can you imagine when a motherwants to just see her son?
You give in to certain things.
You get a little time because Idon't see my son, you know.
I don't feel him.
I don't see him.
Right?
(26:35):
And so the first year she gotaway and I told her, don't make
it happen again.
She's a Korean, you know, itwouldn't happen again.
But every year since that, shemakes it happen.
She allows it.
She allows it and she encourageshim and they plan.
She and my children's father,they plan.
SPEAKER_02 (26:54):
Wow, that's really difficult to have to like, you
know.
SPEAKER_01 (26:57):
Yeah.
So when my son comes here, he'sjust a few miles from me.
I don't get to see him.
What about
SPEAKER_02 (27:03):
your oldest son?
You mentioned that he is in thesame city
SPEAKER_01 (27:06):
as you.
He's in the same house, yeah.
He stays with my mother too.
He lives there with my mother,yeah.
He's there living there.
So when you
SPEAKER_02 (27:13):
go there to visit your mom, like
SPEAKER_01 (27:14):
do you see him?
I do not go.
If I as your mom keep doing thisto you, having your ex who I
know has been abusive to you,has done things to you, and the
children, and I keep having theman at my house and tell you,
stay out of my house.
threaten you to call the policeif you don't get out of her
(27:38):
homes?
What is there to mend, Jenica?
What is there to discuss,Jenica?
She made a choice as to who shewants.
You know, I keep bringing thingsback to relationships again.
You know when a woman isinterested in a guy,
SPEAKER_02 (27:52):
but
SPEAKER_01 (27:53):
he clearly isn't interested in her, and you keep
running after him and doingeverything to get his attention,
but he doesn't have an interestin you?
That you reach a point ofembarrassing you?
You must recognize whensomebody's telling you something
how much at what point of theabuse how much how much of it do
you need to get and take for youto realize stop
SPEAKER_02 (28:16):
that's true
SPEAKER_01 (28:17):
how much I have done it for years and I didn't
realize that I was that even thehome I was brought up in was
narcissistic it was in myunderstanding of narcissism I
again came upon a video I tellyou when God takes you down a
path he puts things in you juststart seeing things you're not
(28:41):
even asking for it you're notsearching but it just shows and
I saw a video about your motherbeing a narcissist you know that
was not the title but that iswhat it was
SPEAKER_02 (28:52):
and
SPEAKER_01 (28:52):
everything that was shared in that video was exactly
my mother I could I had to stepaway from watching and reading
because that bold me I couldn'tbelieve it and they said that
and it was my mother for mecould be a father for somebody
(29:13):
but most of the times it'snormally a mother right What
they said is for you to getinvolved with a narcissist or
for you to attract that isbecause you were raised by one.
And here's the connection.
Familiarity.
Familiarity.
(29:35):
When you grow up in a home,father and mother and you,
right?
They are your only examples asto what you should go towards.
That is normal for you.
Which is why people end up in inrelationships because when they
see these things, it's normal.
As opposed to somebody else whogrew up in a very healthy home
(29:57):
that knows, why are you movingtowards that all the time?
That's
SPEAKER_00 (30:01):
not
SPEAKER_01 (30:01):
normal.
Why are you accepting the crap?
It's because it's normal.
They recognize it and it'sfamiliar.
So I didn't know that until I,as I said, I did the work,
continue to still do the workand realize that these things
that attract me that even knowit would still be attractive to
(30:21):
me but when I see it now I'mlike I'm feeling I'm getting
these feelings oh yeah that thatI love that I say to myself stop
that's that's not that's not foryou Corrine go the other way no
matter how yummy the guy looksno matter what and they do look
(30:44):
yummy Jenica they do look yummyThey pull you in, but you have
to walk
SPEAKER_02 (30:51):
away.
What are those signs now thatyou're looking for or that you
are very hyper aware of whenyou're going into a
SPEAKER_01 (30:59):
relationship?
It's kind of hard to tellbecause right now, what I do is
listen to my intuition.
When I hear ding, ding, ding,something doesn't feel right.
I move away.
So it's hard to tell.
I look beyond the physicalbecause guys look real yummy out
(31:24):
here.
They look real yummy and I haveto go past that.
So for me, I mean, I can't sayexactly what I'm looking for,
but you're looking for thatperson whose actions, and that's
where you could tell adistinction, the actions over
the words.
People could tell you anything,but your actions must be
(31:45):
consistent with your words thatis a fail safe approach plus
your intuition somebody can sayI'm going to take you out like
this is what used to happen toin my relationship we're going
to go out and it never happensand they have you wanting and
waiting and anticipating or youmight even start to go out and
(32:08):
then you say something going inthe car which is a situation
that happened and they get vexed
SPEAKER_02 (32:16):
But
SPEAKER_01 (32:17):
there's no reason for them to be upset.
They're just looking for areason to turn back the car and
take you back home.
So it's like to blame you.
You are the reason why we're notgoing anywhere.
Because everything is as aresult of you.
So you might get dressed, youknow, looking all nice and
sweet.
You're going in the car and theybring up something and you say
(32:39):
something and they turn.
Next thing you know, it's So thepromises that are unkept.
(32:59):
You know, we will go shopping.
We will never happen.
You will sit and wait.
And that's the thing.
Never sit and wait on somebodyto give you something that you
deserve, which is why you mustnot leave your job.
If you want something, get ityour damn self.
You want a ring?
You want that red bottom shoes?
Get it.
(33:20):
You want to eat that ice cream?
Get it.
Because from the time you becomedependent on that person to take
you out, to buy you those redbottoms, to whatever You're
going to be sitting therewaiting forever.
And they will know that you wantit and use that to turn it right
back against you.
To say what I'm looking for, Idon't really state it because
(33:43):
it's not like a list.
I have to be in your space, yourconversations.
There are little things for medepending on how you speak.
If I find you like hot off thewire, you know, I'm like, what?
You know, you can relax, youknow.
And there are times I could bevery tense too but I'm tense
(34:03):
maybe too because of somethingthat may trigger me you know or
because I've because if I hearthe familiar words what I've
recognized is all of them havethe same language they went to
the same school they sat in thesame seat they had the same
teacher they read the same booksthey did the same courses it's a
playbook it's a playbook and itwas and that was one of the
(34:25):
shocking things to me when Istarted to educate myself about
it I'm realizing wait a minute,everything other people are
saying is the same thing.
It's a playbook.
It might come and shape in adifferent form, but it's the
same thing.
The leaving of the job, theysay, promise making those
promises, you know, some people,I even said they were even
(34:48):
involved with people who aredoctors.
They tend to have very high typeof jobs and, you know, holding
certain leadership positions.
They love that because it's allpart of feeding their ego.
And, um, I remember readingsomebody where they were
involved with a doctor and shewas sick.
She was sick and he never evenbrought her any medication or
(35:10):
cared for her.
And he's a doctor.
But the thing about it is reallynot to put a focus on them.
You recognize it.
You know the signs.
And how you would know, followyour gut.
You see that gut?
That gut, Jenica, it neverguides you wrong.
You know.
But what happens, you make theThank you.
(35:33):
You feel you need somebody inyour life.
There's a hole, there's a woundthat you want to fill.
And you're looking for that.
And I was at a very young age.
I was at university when I methim and everybody was having a
boyfriend.
And you know, when you're atthat age, you know, you're like,
oh, everybody has a boyfriend.
So you feel, well, you have tofit in with things.
(35:55):
Well, my darling, what they say,age bring reason.
There comes a point where yourealize, you You don't need
anybody else to define you.
Nothing else defines you.
No job, no money, no status, noman, no nothing.
Not even your name, not even theschool you went to.
Nothing.
You define you.
The only thing you have is yourname.
(36:18):
And you can change that too ifyou don't like it.
Everything is changeable.
Everything is changeable.
And you can decide who you wantto be, where you want to be, how
much you want to be, howfrequent you want to be, and
with who you want to frequent orwhatever with.
But nobody else should be giventhat permission or allowed or
(36:38):
given that authority or feelthey have that power to turn
you, what they call it,play-doh, take you and mix you
with the red and the green andtwist you around and form you
into all sorts of things.
So we have to work on ourselves.
We have to recognize thesethings within ourselves so that
persons can come in like abacteria and infiltrate that
(37:01):
wound and manipulate and controlit.
and make us, turn us intosomething that we can't
recognize in the mirror anymorebecause I was losing myself.
I didn't know who I was.
(37:41):
a slow process and you don'trealize you're losing yourself.
SPEAKER_02 (37:44):
Hold
SPEAKER_01 (37:45):
on.
Hold on to that flick of lightthat's in you.
SPEAKER_02 (37:49):
I love that.
Corey, last final plug-ins.
I would like you to share yourpodcast with us and the work
that you're doing as well beforewe end the podcast.
Sure.
SPEAKER_01 (38:02):
Between the Lines.
Isn't that a very apt...
I love that
SPEAKER_02 (38:05):
line.
SPEAKER_01 (38:05):
I love
SPEAKER_02 (38:06):
that.
Yeah, it's such a nice name.
SPEAKER_01 (38:07):
Yeah, that came to me many years ago and everybody
seemed to like it.
Between the Lines.
It says a lot.
Read Between the Lines.
Everything is Between the Lines.
There are lots of hidden thingsBetween the Lines.
Just look at the lines and say,this is it.
Between the lines.
And my podcast airs on a Sunday.
I normally do it live onLinkedIn, YouTube, and Facebook.
(38:29):
Sunday from 1 to 1.30.
That's where my shows are now.
I will increase the amount ofepisodes.
I will come back to increasingthem, but right now they're just
on Sundays from 1 to 1.30 mytime, which is in Trinidad TT
time.
And I focus on communicationsnow.
Communication in relationships,communication in business,
(38:50):
meaning in toxic relations,where you have to navigate them
at work.
So in other words, all what Ihave been through, you're
getting that.
It's coming out
SPEAKER_02 (39:02):
now in the podcast form.
I love it.
SPEAKER_01 (39:05):
All that I have been through, you're getting my
experience and helping you tonavigate that life on a personal
level.
So if you need, you know,coaching, I do group coaching
for persons in this type ofrelationship and they want to
get out and they don't know how.
Yeah.
And let me tell you something,Janika, I know we're coming to
the close of time, but there aremany people who commit suicide
(39:28):
as a result of this.
And I hope that, yeah, becausethey don't see a way out.
And because it's the mind thatthey attack, it's the mind that
they go for, right?
Which is worse.
They always say, if you'reabused physically, it's one
thing, but you see, oncesomebody attacks your mind, it's
(39:48):
another
SPEAKER_02 (39:49):
thing,
SPEAKER_01 (39:50):
right?
So if you need group coaching ifyou need to know how to exit you
have children and you need helpto know how to navigate that
life I offer group coaching oreven individual coaching and
it's not only about toxicity inrelation but also toxicity in
the workplace because these samebeings go to work and you end up
(40:14):
working with these same beings
SPEAKER_02 (40:16):
okay
SPEAKER_01 (40:17):
so you have to be able to navigate that so I help
in terms of that becausesometimes and people really
having a hard time.
SPEAKER_02 (40:24):
And
SPEAKER_01 (40:25):
in terms of corporate, because I speak this
on my podcast too, coming from acommunications background, I
help with the communicationstrategy, meaning knowing how to
interact and interface with yourstakeholders, including
internal, because they are yourstakeholders, all your staff and
everybody's working for you, aswell as external.
(40:47):
So in essence, it's treatingpeople right, knowing how to
speak to people, Respect andhonor them.
SPEAKER_02 (40:54):
Love
SPEAKER_01 (40:55):
all around.
SPEAKER_02 (40:58):
That's so nice.
That's so sweet.
Thank you for being on thepodcast and sharing so much with
us today and such great insight.
So appreciate it.
UNKNOWN (41:09):
Thank you.
SPEAKER_02 (41:10):
If you enjoyed the episode and would like to help
support the show, please followand subscribe.
You can rate and review yourfeedback on any of our platforms
listed in the description.
I'd like to recognize our guestswho are vulnerable and open to
share their life experienceswith us.
Thank you for showing us we'rehuman.
Also, a thank you to our teamwho worked so hard behind the
scenes to make it happen.
(41:31):
The show would be nothingwithout you.
I'm Jenica, host and writer ofthe show, and you're listening
to...
Multispective.
And let me tell you something, Janika, there are
many people who commit suicideas a result of this.
When you're making love to them,they know how to act, but they
don't consider you and yourneeds and your desires and your
(00:22):
feelings.
Your intuition never genital.
And anybody listen to this,never, and I'm sure people know
this, never guide you wrong.
Whose actions, and that's whereyou could tell a distinction,
the actions over the words.
People could tell you anything,but your actions must be
(00:46):
consistent with your words.
The promises that are unkept.
SPEAKER_02 (00:58):
Hi, Kareem.
Welcome to Multispective.
I am so excited to have you onair with us.
It's
SPEAKER_01 (01:04):
great to be here.
It's great to be here.
Thank you so much for invitingme.
SPEAKER_02 (01:08):
Yeah, you know, you have a really interesting story.
I think it's a topic that peopleare talking about now more than
ever.
So where does it all begin foryou?
SPEAKER_01 (01:17):
Girl, I don't even know.
It was before I was born,clearly, so I have no idea.
But when I realized it, and itwe're talking about is getting
involved with a narcissist.
Of course, he will not say that.
As we say in the Caribbean, afisherman never says his fish
rotten when a fisherman sellingyou a fish he will never say
rotten fish rotten fish he willnever do that so you know people
(01:44):
will not admit and they wouldactually project that's a you
know i'm sure people have heardthe term projection they will
actually project it onto you andsay you are the narcissist and
convince you in your state thatyou are actually the one at
fault you are the one that'sunhealthy i was i was told that
i need help And I was like, Iknow I ain't crazy.
(02:07):
I mean, I'm crazy, but I ain'tcrazy.
You know, and they will convinceyou of these things.
And when I say they, theyrepresent your spouse, your
husband, your guy who you'rewith, the woman who you're with,
because it's not attached or itdoesn't discriminate with a
(02:27):
particular gender or sex.
You know, it could be a mother.
It could be a father.
It could be a friend.
It could be a boss at work.
It could be a colleague at workbecause it has happened to me,
not just in a personal intimaterelationship.
(03:03):
I have discovered from my ownexperience is that you have a
wound and if you don't take careof that it can get infected
bacteria could crawl in theirgerms or kind of creepy crawly
things and it gets worse it getsyou know as I said infected and
that's what they are
SPEAKER_00 (03:21):
they
SPEAKER_01 (03:22):
infect you because you have an open wound that you
haven't taken care of now what
SPEAKER_02 (03:26):
that wound
SPEAKER_01 (03:27):
is that wound is something from your childhood
that you haven't discoveredMm-hmm.
(04:03):
here.
There is something that they arepicking up about you or in you
and they decide, narcissist,they decide that they are going
to manipulate and take advantageof that.
Just like a germ or bacteria, itsees a host, you, and it's going
(04:26):
to infiltrate that and do allthis lovely magic and take
housing, build a wholecondominium and start to do
things.
Eventually, after a while, justlike with that wound, when it
becomes infected, you start tohave symptoms.
You start to get a little shaky,shivery, you know, things start
(04:46):
happening to you.
And that is what's startedhappening to me.
Is that a question?
So would you say that
SPEAKER_02 (04:53):
this kind of like your very first narcissistic
experience was with a spouse,with a partner, or does it go
back before that even?
SPEAKER_01 (05:01):
No, no, no.
The first time I recognized it,and notice I said recognize it.
It's not that, you see, becauseyou don't know what you don't
know.
When I recognized it was when Icame out of that 27-year
relationship.
I wasn't married, 27 years withtwo children, two boys.
I didn't know.
It was when I came out of that27-year relationship.
(05:23):
I don't know.
This is why I tell you I blameGod for it.
All of a sudden, I am just on mylaptop and I think, I don't
know, something just showed up.
And I read it.
And, Jenica, to this day, Icouldn't pass the first
paragraph of that article.
The first paragraph, I don'teven think I read the first
paragraph.
(05:44):
The first few lines was my life.
I saw things in the first fewlines and I was literally
bawling.
It was like if it was livingwith me, the words in that
article was living with me inthe house with the person I was
with.
It was seeing the things thatwas happening in my life.
(06:04):
Just
SPEAKER_02 (06:04):
for context so our listeners can understand,
because I have done episodesbefore of people who've
experienced living with or beingvery close to someone with
narcissism, but the experiencehas always been somewhat
different for different people.
I
SPEAKER_01 (06:19):
remember having a situation in the house with him.
(06:48):
You know, like when you watch inslow motion in a movie,
everything just goes slow.
So it was like everything justgoing slow.
So he was passing by me after hesaid what he said.
And I saw the smirk on his face.
It was a smirk.
It was like...
(07:10):
I got you.
You know, a sort ofsatisfaction, sort of a smirk.
And it resonated somehow withme.
And when I saw the article, andI mean, that was many years ago,
I remember that article, Ithink, saying something about
they have this smirk.
It's only God that got me out ofthis because I...
(07:31):
You see, when you don't have arelationship spiritually, then
the flesh, the people in yourlife will take over.
But you have to have thatstrength within you to know.
(07:51):
What is the truth from whatisn't?
And so you have to, and why am Isaying that is about your
intuition.
Your intuition never, andanybody listen to this, never,
and I'm sure people know this,never guides you wrong.
And when my intuition, I call itthe spirit, said to me, watch,
(08:11):
and I saw it on the side, I waslike, I felt something churn
inside of me.
I have to find that article.
I'm sure it was something, it'seither somebody sent me
something or I found it or itwas some, I don't know.
SPEAKER_02 (08:25):
But
SPEAKER_01 (08:25):
I have to somehow find it.
It's hard to really pin down aparticular instance.
There were just a number ofinstances.
But it was, I don't even blamehim.
I don't, and this is a lesson Iwant to get across to your
listeners.
We tend to focus on thenarcissist.
(08:46):
You see, when you do that,you're giving them more power.
You're making them feel thatthey're all that in a bag of
chips plus the factory which iswhat I say but it is not that
you have to focus on you andhealing that wound you have to
focus on why is it that theypicked you because they selected
you you were chosen becausethere are many other people over
(09:09):
there but they picked you whyokay if you don't work on you
you're going to keep attractingthe same type of people they
will take a different shape formcolors But it's the same thing.
So I want people to take awayfrom this.
The focus is on you.
(09:29):
Yes, we know that people do yourthings, whatever.
But why?
Why are they doing it?
Put a stop to it by working onyourself.
Because you can't change them.
No matter how you quarrel,fight, cuss, whatever, you
cannot change them.
The only person who you havecontrol over is you.
So take that amount of energythat you're putting and giving
(09:51):
to them.
Mm-hmm.
I'm telling you, that's straightwhat
SPEAKER_00 (10:09):
it is.
SPEAKER_01 (10:10):
You will sleep and you know this.
And I will tell you how you knowthis.
And this is getting raw here.
When you're making love to them,they know how to act.
But they don't consider you andyour needs and your desires and
your feelings.
It's not reciprocal.
It's all about them.
Because they need it.
They need it.
(10:33):
So you really have been involvedwith a corpse.
Triller.
You know, Michael Jackson, thevideo, Triller.
You really have been in for it.
And that might sound sad or raw,but I'm telling you it's the
truth.
Because they have no remorse.
They have no feeling.
You might think, but it's ahuman being and there's blood
running through their veins.
(10:53):
Yes, but no.
They have not.
SPEAKER_02 (10:55):
Can you tell me a time where you felt like
dismissed or you felt like youwere made to feel unimportant
or, you know, where you werefeeling triggered, where on
reflection, you kind ofrealized, actually, that was an
act of narcissism.
In a way, that was an act
SPEAKER_01 (11:12):
of what...
(11:37):
or triggers or heightens yourawareness, it's a goner.
I probably would not have stayedthe 27 years if somebody or
something had come to myattention.
But
SPEAKER_02 (11:52):
do you recall feeling unhappy when you were
SPEAKER_01 (11:55):
in the relationship?
I wasn't working at the time.
Well, I was working for aparticular period of time.
And then, well, when we had kidsand he said, Corinne, you know,
(12:16):
I think it's best if you stay athome, you know, because I prefer
the mother of my kids to be homeas opposed to a stranger, you
know, and he will take care ofeverything.
That's what he said to me.
And I said to myself, wow, isn'tthat love?
You know, he appreciates mebeing there with the kids.
And yeah, it making sense I meanthis is a man in your life the
(12:40):
father of your kids you'reliving with him it makes sense
Jenica yeah and he says he willtake care because he was in a
solid job good paying job andeverything and yeah I was
already dealing with all thisstuff and of course any man
would feel safer knowing thatthe mother of his children is
with the kids in the house so Isaid okay and No, sweetie, don't
(13:02):
be fooled.
That was a strategic move for meto be dependent on him for the
rest of my life.
To be crippled.
And at the time, I wasn'tthinking that.
And when you hear other women'sstories, you will hear the same
thing.
You know, you give up your job,you give up everything, and you
end up not being able or notthinking that you could leave
(13:24):
when you really think you would.
Because you're like, what am Igoing to do?
Where am I going to go?
I don't have any money.
I have to ask It's
SPEAKER_02 (13:31):
a
SPEAKER_01 (13:34):
strategic move.
So don't ever leave your job nomatter what he says.
Don't give up anything that youhave been doing and enjoying no
matter what he or she says.
Don't.
It is a strategic move.
And don't ever allow your mindto tell you, oh, isn't that
sweet?
He loves me or she loves me.
SPEAKER_02 (13:54):
No.
SPEAKER_01 (13:54):
Because anybody who truly loves you will want you to
continue doing the things youenjoy and will support you.
in uplifting you and getting youto do even more and challenging
yourself.
But instead it was the other wayaround under the guise of care
and love and concern whenthere's no such thing.
So when it was time for me toleave or when I felt it was time
(14:16):
for me to leave and I hadenough, of course I went through
that trauma of where am I goingto go?
What am I going to do?
And then when I sat down becauseI was still making money online,
right?
I was still doing that.
I realized I was still, I waspaying for us to travel you know
because I'm not a person whowould just sit down and twiddle
my thumbs and take care ofchildren they go to school
(14:37):
during the day I could be doingsomething so I found online
things to do and I was stillcovering the the cable and the
phone and stuff like that so Iwas paying so that even though I
was made to feel and told otherpeople I wasn't doing crap in
the house I wasn't contributingyou know and I realized I was
paying for travel I was stilltraveling I was covering things
(15:00):
in the home the kids were stillgoing to school.
We were still paying the schoolfees, you know.
I was like, but Corinne, if youcould do that, then you could
manage.
It mightn't be...
At the best, you'll have toprobably start over, but you're
not starting from ground zero.
And then lucky for me, I'mTrinidadian.
(15:21):
I had my other country to comehome to, even though I would
have to come back to my mother'shouse, which is not a good thing
as an adult.
But you do what you have to dountil you could scrape yourself
back up and build back up.
So you have to get a little twodose or 10 doses of humility,
swallow your little pride if youhave any of it after dealing
(15:42):
with that sort of relationship.
and build yourself back up.
But I can promise anyonelistening to this, you will
build yourself back up.
All you need is to believe andhave the will.
And listen, angels are amongstus.
Angels are amongst us.
And I know there are things thatsome people will have to do to
make it.
(16:02):
There's no judgment here, atleast for me, right?
Do what you need to do tosurvive for another day.
Once it is legal, once it issafe, and doesn't put you in
harm or anybody else in harm soyou can't make it
SPEAKER_02 (16:18):
yeah at what point did you kind of start making
your boundaries very clear withhim at what point did you start
to kind of like stand up foryourself a little bit more or
did you kind of was it just likei read that article and boom
like i went from being anall-giving wife partner to just
leaving like bam one day
SPEAKER_01 (16:38):
remember the article came after i left so i couldn't
i couldn't apply that before i
SPEAKER_00 (16:43):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (16:44):
But there were instances where I put my foot
down on certain things.
And I realized when I look backnow, I was a bit stronger
earlier in the relationship andthen got weak over time
SPEAKER_02 (16:56):
and
SPEAKER_01 (16:57):
then got to reclaim myself a little bit after some
years.
So when I look back, I'm like,at what point?
And people have asked me this.
At what point did it change?
Did it switch?
And I really can't say.
It is a subtle move.
And I use the example of thefrog in the The frog in the
water, you're turning up theheat under him and he doesn't
(17:18):
know that it's getting hot andhe's cooking and he's dying in
there.
But he's just gotten so used tothe temperature because it's
been a slow turn of the heat.
He doesn't tell the difference.
And that is what they do.
It's very insidious.
You know, you have no idea thatlittle by little is happening.
So when you ask somebody who hasbeen in that type of
(17:39):
relationship, when they can'tsay, at least for me, I can't
say.
All I remember is that I wasstronger in the earlies and
something happened over time.
And then I reclaimed myself.
So there's a little flicker oflight that's in you that remains
there, even though it's not out.
(18:00):
It's not out.
It's only out if you allow it tobe out.
And that flicker is what thatflame started to get a little
bit brighter, a little bitbrighter, a little bit brighter.
And things that I did, thingsthat I did was like when I, you
know he would come home and hewould make statements like what
he did you know like I keep aroof over here and I you know
(18:26):
lucky for you whatever whateveryou know I'm like hold on I
don't walk about as a woman hereI cook the food I even said to
him I said you need a medal forthat or something you know I
just couldn't get it you knowsome things were just not
connecting.
Nobody's supposed to boast orcome around or walk into the
(18:49):
house boasting about what theydid, which is what you're
supposed to do.
You're on the mind
SPEAKER_02 (18:54):
of the house.
SPEAKER_01 (18:55):
You're supposed to provide.
Nobody comes, I'm providing foryou and I'm this and I'm taking
care of the kids.
I'm making sure everybody goesto school.
I'm like, shocker.
That's what you're supposed todo.
Do you need a medal?
And I said it to him.
I said, you sound like you needa medal.
And all what I'm saying to you,Janika, is what I I have read or
seen in a video as a result ofeducating myself coming out of
(19:19):
the relationship.
People have said these things.
They will boast about thingsthat they're supposed to be
doing or they should be doing astheir role, as their
responsibility.
And you're like, you need amedal?
You need a trophy?
SPEAKER_02 (19:34):
Can you talk to me a little bit about the role of
fear in this relationship?
And I say fear because would yousay that fear played a part in
you kind of giving into a Wouldyou say fear was the reason why
you didn't want to leave or youdidn't leave that relationship
for so long?
And is that a common thing thatnarcissists tend to do, like
instill fear in their target
SPEAKER_01 (19:54):
person?
Fear is...
Fear is the root of all thethings that manifest itself.
It is the root.
If you keep asking why, why,why, why, why, why, it's fear.
And fear manifests itself inyour lack of self-worth.
(20:15):
If you ask somebody, do you loveyourself?
You'll say, of course I do.
But what's their actions?
It doesn't match.
Because if you love yourself,you will not allow somebody to
do those type of things.
You will not allow somebody ortalk to you the way they talk to
(20:43):
you.
is making you self-doubt fear ismaking you not care for yourself
(21:04):
like you're used to so you'reused to go and do your pedicures
manicures do your hair treatyourself well go shopping you're
not feeling to get up out of itlittle things you know and you
notice the change so yes fear isis a manipulative tool strategy
tactic that they use and like Isaid it manifests itself in all
(21:24):
different ways they use it evenfor the kids So I was actually
going to
SPEAKER_02 (21:29):
ask you this next.
What was the role of your kids?
How did it affect
SPEAKER_01 (21:33):
your kids?
It was always fear-based.
They could never do enough.
Even if they excelled, it wasnever good enough.
Not that he excelled,
SPEAKER_00 (21:43):
but
SPEAKER_01 (21:43):
they never did enough.
They would get A's or whateverit is.
It was never enough.
So does he have a relationshipwith the kids right now?
Well, he took them over.
SPEAKER_02 (21:58):
Okay.
Can you walk
SPEAKER_01 (21:59):
me through what happened?
He took them over and convertedthem over on his side.
But again, I don't blame himbecause my son is going to be 30
this year.
When they're young, this isgoing to be 22.
They're not babies, the eldest.
Well, he's here with me inTrinidad now and he just stopped
(22:19):
talking to me.
SPEAKER_02 (22:21):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (22:22):
Have nothing to do with me.
So I have turned into the evilwitch, as we say in the
Caribbean or in of that you makechildren but you can't make
their mind you know they have achoice and if they choose to go
that route that's up to them youknow we each have to live our
lives but man
SPEAKER_02 (22:41):
like what was the reason for why is it because
there was a narrative that thatyour part
SPEAKER_01 (22:47):
I cannot explain Jenica I cannot explain what a
narcissist mind does it'stwisted I cannot explain it
right the fact that it's twistedI you could, as a man, I would
just put it in this way.
Women give birth to children,not the man.
(23:10):
And a man knowing that shouldnever turn their children
against the mother.
Under no circumstances.
I don't care if she's a drugdealer, a prostitute.
I don't care what she is.
Human You must never do thatbecause he as a man came from a
(23:32):
woman.
We all came
SPEAKER_02 (23:35):
from
SPEAKER_01 (23:36):
a woman and it is just not right.
So just that in itself to stopthe mother of your children from
having a relationship becausethe mother decides she doesn't
want to have anything to do withyou.
You're selling a narrative thatthey probably buy into.
I don't know whatever that Ihave abandoned them that I I am
(23:58):
just the worst on this planet.
And just the fact that somebodycould do that is evidence,
Jenica, to me that something isdefinitely wrong with that
individual.
Because I would never, if it'sthe reverse, I would never keep
my children away from theirfather.
But the decisions I had to takeas a result of that is to
(24:23):
safeguard me or else I would bepulled in to the situation
again.
You see, what they don'trealize, but what I know, is
that they are being used aspawns, you know, like a
chessboard.
They are being used as pawns,but they don't know that.
I do.
Okay?
They are being moved along thechessboard for his purpose.
(24:47):
He doesn't love them.
He has no interest in themexcept to be used as pawns.
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_02 (25:24):
That's
SPEAKER_01 (25:26):
my father.
And I'm not bad talking him.
I'm talking things that theyknow, things that they
experience.
But in their mind, that's myfather.
If it was reversed, that's mymother.
So you never do it.
And all these things areevidence of the manipulation and
control.
So much so that he comes toTrinidad.
(25:52):
The father comes to Trinidadwith my youngest son, because
remember the eldest is back herenow, with my youngest son, stays
at my mother's house, and I'mnot allowed to be at my mother's
house.
And how does your mom allowthat?
Because she encourages it.
The first time it happened yearsago, And I was such in a
(26:15):
desperate place to see myyoungest son at the time.
Can you imagine when a motherwants to just see her son?
You give in to certain things.
You get a little time because Idon't see my son, you know.
I don't feel him.
I don't see him.
Right?
(26:35):
And so the first year she gotaway and I told her, don't make
it happen again.
She's a Korean, you know, itwouldn't happen again.
But every year since that, shemakes it happen.
She allows it.
She allows it and she encourageshim and they plan.
She and my children's father,they plan.
SPEAKER_02 (26:54):
Wow, that's really difficult to have to like, you
know.
SPEAKER_01 (26:57):
Yeah.
So when my son comes here, he'sjust a few miles from me.
I don't get to see him.
What about
SPEAKER_02 (27:03):
your oldest son?
You mentioned that he is in thesame city
SPEAKER_01 (27:06):
as you.
He's in the same house, yeah.
He stays with my mother too.
He lives there with my mother,yeah.
He's there living there.
So when you
SPEAKER_02 (27:13):
go there to visit your mom, like
SPEAKER_01 (27:14):
do you see him?
I do not go.
If I as your mom keep doing thisto you, having your ex who I
know has been abusive to you,has done things to you, and the
children, and I keep having theman at my house and tell you,
stay out of my house.
threaten you to call the policeif you don't get out of her
(27:38):
homes?
What is there to mend, Jenica?
What is there to discuss,Jenica?
She made a choice as to who shewants.
You know, I keep bringing thingsback to relationships again.
You know when a woman isinterested in a guy,
SPEAKER_02 (27:52):
but
SPEAKER_01 (27:53):
he clearly isn't interested in her, and you keep
running after him and doingeverything to get his attention,
but he doesn't have an interestin you?
That you reach a point ofembarrassing you?
You must recognize whensomebody's telling you something
how much at what point of theabuse how much how much of it do
you need to get and take for youto realize stop
SPEAKER_02 (28:16):
that's true
SPEAKER_01 (28:17):
how much I have done it for years and I didn't
realize that I was that even thehome I was brought up in was
narcissistic it was in myunderstanding of narcissism I
again came upon a video I tellyou when God takes you down a
path he puts things in you juststart seeing things you're not
(28:41):
even asking for it you're notsearching but it just shows and
I saw a video about your motherbeing a narcissist you know that
was not the title but that iswhat it was
SPEAKER_02 (28:52):
and
SPEAKER_01 (28:52):
everything that was shared in that video was exactly
my mother I could I had to stepaway from watching and reading
because that bold me I couldn'tbelieve it and they said that
and it was my mother for mecould be a father for somebody
(29:13):
but most of the times it'snormally a mother right What
they said is for you to getinvolved with a narcissist or
for you to attract that isbecause you were raised by one.
And here's the connection.
Familiarity.
Familiarity.
(29:35):
When you grow up in a home,father and mother and you,
right?
They are your only examples asto what you should go towards.
That is normal for you.
Which is why people end up in inrelationships because when they
see these things, it's normal.
As opposed to somebody else whogrew up in a very healthy home
(29:57):
that knows, why are you movingtowards that all the time?
That's
SPEAKER_00 (30:01):
not
SPEAKER_01 (30:01):
normal.
Why are you accepting the crap?
It's because it's normal.
They recognize it and it'sfamiliar.
So I didn't know that until I,as I said, I did the work,
continue to still do the workand realize that these things
that attract me that even knowit would still be attractive to
(30:21):
me but when I see it now I'mlike I'm feeling I'm getting
these feelings oh yeah that thatI love that I say to myself stop
that's that's not that's not foryou Corrine go the other way no
matter how yummy the guy looksno matter what and they do look
(30:44):
yummy Jenica they do look yummyThey pull you in, but you have
to walk
SPEAKER_02 (30:51):
away.
What are those signs now thatyou're looking for or that you
are very hyper aware of whenyou're going into a
SPEAKER_01 (30:59):
relationship?
It's kind of hard to tellbecause right now, what I do is
listen to my intuition.
When I hear ding, ding, ding,something doesn't feel right.
I move away.
So it's hard to tell.
I look beyond the physicalbecause guys look real yummy out
(31:24):
here.
They look real yummy and I haveto go past that.
So for me, I mean, I can't sayexactly what I'm looking for,
but you're looking for thatperson whose actions, and that's
where you could tell adistinction, the actions over
the words.
People could tell you anything,but your actions must be
(31:45):
consistent with your words thatis a fail safe approach plus
your intuition somebody can sayI'm going to take you out like
this is what used to happen toin my relationship we're going
to go out and it never happensand they have you wanting and
waiting and anticipating or youmight even start to go out and
(32:08):
then you say something going inthe car which is a situation
that happened and they get vexed
SPEAKER_02 (32:16):
But
SPEAKER_01 (32:17):
there's no reason for them to be upset.
They're just looking for areason to turn back the car and
take you back home.
So it's like to blame you.
You are the reason why we're notgoing anywhere.
Because everything is as aresult of you.
So you might get dressed, youknow, looking all nice and
sweet.
You're going in the car and theybring up something and you say
(32:39):
something and they turn.
Next thing you know, it's So thepromises that are unkept.
(32:59):
You know, we will go shopping.
We will never happen.
You will sit and wait.
And that's the thing.
Never sit and wait on somebodyto give you something that you
deserve, which is why you mustnot leave your job.
If you want something, get ityour damn self.
You want a ring?
You want that red bottom shoes?
Get it.
(33:20):
You want to eat that ice cream?
Get it.
Because from the time you becomedependent on that person to take
you out, to buy you those redbottoms, to whatever You're
going to be sitting therewaiting forever.
And they will know that you wantit and use that to turn it right
back against you.
To say what I'm looking for, Idon't really state it because
(33:43):
it's not like a list.
I have to be in your space, yourconversations.
There are little things for medepending on how you speak.
If I find you like hot off thewire, you know, I'm like, what?
You know, you can relax, youknow.
And there are times I could bevery tense too but I'm tense
(34:03):
maybe too because of somethingthat may trigger me you know or
because I've because if I hearthe familiar words what I've
recognized is all of them havethe same language they went to
the same school they sat in thesame seat they had the same
teacher they read the same booksthey did the same courses it's a
playbook it's a playbook and itwas and that was one of the
(34:25):
shocking things to me when Istarted to educate myself about
it I'm realizing wait a minute,everything other people are
saying is the same thing.
It's a playbook.
It might come and shape in adifferent form, but it's the
same thing.
The leaving of the job, theysay, promise making those
promises, you know, some people,I even said they were even
(34:48):
involved with people who aredoctors.
They tend to have very high typeof jobs and, you know, holding
certain leadership positions.
They love that because it's allpart of feeding their ego.
And, um, I remember readingsomebody where they were
involved with a doctor and shewas sick.
She was sick and he never evenbrought her any medication or
(35:10):
cared for her.
And he's a doctor.
But the thing about it is reallynot to put a focus on them.
You recognize it.
You know the signs.
And how you would know, followyour gut.
You see that gut?
That gut, Jenica, it neverguides you wrong.
You know.
But what happens, you make theThank you.
(35:33):
You feel you need somebody inyour life.
There's a hole, there's a woundthat you want to fill.
And you're looking for that.
And I was at a very young age.
I was at university when I methim and everybody was having a
boyfriend.
And you know, when you're atthat age, you know, you're like,
oh, everybody has a boyfriend.
So you feel, well, you have tofit in with things.
(35:55):
Well, my darling, what they say,age bring reason.
There comes a point where yourealize, you You don't need
anybody else to define you.
Nothing else defines you.
No job, no money, no status, noman, no nothing.
Not even your name, not even theschool you went to.
Nothing.
You define you.
The only thing you have is yourname.
(36:18):
And you can change that too ifyou don't like it.
Everything is changeable.
Everything is changeable.
And you can decide who you wantto be, where you want to be, how
much you want to be, howfrequent you want to be, and
with who you want to frequent orwhatever with.
But nobody else should be giventhat permission or allowed or
(36:38):
given that authority or feelthey have that power to turn
you, what they call it,play-doh, take you and mix you
with the red and the green andtwist you around and form you
into all sorts of things.
So we have to work on ourselves.
We have to recognize thesethings within ourselves so that
persons can come in like abacteria and infiltrate that
(37:01):
wound and manipulate and controlit.
and make us, turn us intosomething that we can't
recognize in the mirror anymorebecause I was losing myself.
I didn't know who I was.
(37:41):
a slow process and you don'trealize you're losing yourself.
SPEAKER_02 (37:44):
Hold
SPEAKER_01 (37:45):
on.
Hold on to that flick of lightthat's in you.
SPEAKER_02 (37:49):
I love that.
Corey, last final plug-ins.
I would like you to share yourpodcast with us and the work
that you're doing as well beforewe end the podcast.
Sure.
SPEAKER_01 (38:02):
Between the Lines.
Isn't that a very apt...
I love that
SPEAKER_02 (38:05):
line.
SPEAKER_01 (38:05):
I love
SPEAKER_02 (38:06):
that.
Yeah, it's such a nice name.
SPEAKER_01 (38:07):
Yeah, that came to me many years ago and everybody
seemed to like it.
Between the Lines.
It says a lot.
Read Between the Lines.
Everything is Between the Lines.
There are lots of hidden thingsBetween the Lines.
Just look at the lines and say,this is it.
Between the lines.
And my podcast airs on a Sunday.
I normally do it live onLinkedIn, YouTube, and Facebook.
(38:29):
Sunday from 1 to 1.30.
That's where my shows are now.
I will increase the amount ofepisodes.
I will come back to increasingthem, but right now they're just
on Sundays from 1 to 1.30 mytime, which is in Trinidad TT
time.
And I focus on communicationsnow.
Communication in relationships,communication in business,
(38:50):
meaning in toxic relations,where you have to navigate them
at work.
So in other words, all what Ihave been through, you're
getting that.
It's coming out
SPEAKER_02 (39:02):
now in the podcast form.
I love it.
SPEAKER_01 (39:05):
All that I have been through, you're getting my
experience and helping you tonavigate that life on a personal
level.
So if you need, you know,coaching, I do group coaching
for persons in this type ofrelationship and they want to
get out and they don't know how.
Yeah.
And let me tell you something,Janika, I know we're coming to
the close of time, but there aremany people who commit suicide
(39:28):
as a result of this.
And I hope that, yeah, becausethey don't see a way out.
And because it's the mind thatthey attack, it's the mind that
they go for, right?
Which is worse.
They always say, if you'reabused physically, it's one
thing, but you see, oncesomebody attacks your mind, it's
(39:48):
another
SPEAKER_02 (39:49):
thing,
SPEAKER_01 (39:50):
right?
So if you need group coaching ifyou need to know how to exit you
have children and you need helpto know how to navigate that
life I offer group coaching oreven individual coaching and
it's not only about toxicity inrelation but also toxicity in
the workplace because these samebeings go to work and you end up
(40:14):
working with these same beings
SPEAKER_02 (40:16):
okay
SPEAKER_01 (40:17):
so you have to be able to navigate that so I help
in terms of that becausesometimes and people really
having a hard time.
SPEAKER_02 (40:24):
And
SPEAKER_01 (40:25):
in terms of corporate, because I speak this
on my podcast too, coming from acommunications background, I
help with the communicationstrategy, meaning knowing how to
interact and interface with yourstakeholders, including
internal, because they are yourstakeholders, all your staff and
everybody's working for you, aswell as external.
(40:47):
So in essence, it's treatingpeople right, knowing how to
speak to people, Respect andhonor them.
SPEAKER_02 (40:54):
Love
SPEAKER_01 (40:55):
all around.
SPEAKER_02 (40:58):
That's so nice.
That's so sweet.
Thank you for being on thepodcast and sharing so much with
us today and such great insight.
So appreciate it.
UNKNOWN (41:09):
Thank you.
SPEAKER_02 (41:10):
If you enjoyed the episode and would like to help
support the show, please followand subscribe.
You can rate and review yourfeedback on any of our platforms
listed in the description.
I'd like to recognize our guestswho are vulnerable and open to
share their life experienceswith us.
Thank you for showing us we'rehuman.
Also, a thank you to our teamwho worked so hard behind the
scenes to make it happen.
(41:31):
The show would be nothingwithout you.
I'm Jenica, host and writer ofthe show, and you're listening
to...
Multispective.
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