083 36 Years in Prison for a Crime I Didn't Commit: Judy Henderson

In this interview, I speak with Judy Henderson, who spent 36 years wrongfully incarcerated for a murder she did not commit. Her co-defendant who committed the murder never faced charges. Originally sentenced to 50 years, Judy was ultimately exonerated, regaining her freedom after more than three decades. She shares insights into her life in prison and details the meaningful changes and reforms she championed for women while inside. This conversation highlights her resilience, the challenges of the justice system, and her lasting advocacy.

Her book "When the Light Finds Us: From a Life Sentence to a Life Transformed" is available on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/When-Light-Finds-Us-Transformed-ebook/dp/B0CR93DD34

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Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_02 (00:00):
I would come home from work and my clothes would
be torn to shreds or my shoescut up.
I ended up attempting suicide.
I didn't know that was a darkerside that I was unaware of until
this murder happened.

(00:20):
I was shot.
The gentleman was killed.
The hitman was sent to kill usbecause we knew too much.
He knew what to do to make itlook like he was not guilty.
He convinced these women that hewas innocent because prison is a
very scary, hate-filled,anger-filled dungeon.

(00:43):
You could do two things withanger.
You can either get bitter or youcan get better.
Make your life better.
Make it what you want it to be.
I'm, oldest of eight children toa very close-knit family.
My background was one of tryingto take care of my younger

(01:06):
siblings, and we were raised ina somewhat Christian home, and
we had a very abusive father.
We ended up, I was sexuallymolested by a minister at the
age of 17, and throughout mylife, I had other episodes that
are mentioned in the book, Whenthe Light Finds Us, from a life

(01:26):
sentence to a life So there's alot of details in there about my
past and about what occurred inmy journey and how I got here
today.
I did marry at the age of 18.
I had my first daughter at 19.
And then nine years later, I hada son, Chip, and my daughter was

(01:47):
Angel.
Her father was very abusivealso.
So there was that kind oflearned behavior, you know, from
my mom being abused that youfeel that's the norm, you know,
so.
But it took me 12 years before Iwas able to get up the courage
to leave because I was fearfulthat the violence was escalating
and could be turned on thechildren, especially my

(02:09):
daughter.

SPEAKER_03 (02:09):
So when you say abuse, could you just elaborate
a little bit more about theabuse you faced at the hands of
your father and then later

SPEAKER_02 (02:18):
on at the hands of your husband?
over nothing.
Stress, he would drink.
He abused my mother continually.
She had a miscarriage because ofit, so we probably would have

(02:38):
had nine children.
But it was something that wasjust the norm.
Even though we had a Christianbackground, the minister would
just tell them, just keep itbehind closed doors and God will
take care of it.
And I remember that so vividly.
So it made me believe that thiswas just the norm.
This is just what families did.
So whenever I got married, myex-husband became physically and

(03:01):
emotionally abusive.
And he would run around withother women and be gone a lot.
And he wasn't even there whenour daughter was born.
I was a middle-class mother thatwas very devoted to her
children.
And whenever I felt like theviolence could end up turning on
her, that's whenever I had thecourage to leave after 12 years.

(03:23):
And battered women's brains arewired just a little differently.
than somebody that's raised in ahealthy home.
We don't notice red signs.
We're very passive, and we don'task a lot of questions.
So I ended up divorcing him.
He still wouldn't leave mealone.
I would come home from work, andmy clothes would be torn to

(03:44):
shreds or my shoes cut up.
I ended up attempting suicide.
I didn't know how I was going toget out of this.
So I ended up in a psychiatricward September through October.
I think it was the fall of 1980.
Whenever my psychiatrist told methat I needed to move out of the
area down where my family lived,which was about 350 miles from

(04:05):
there, that's what I ended updoing.
My mother and stepfather bythen, she had divorced my dad
and married a very kind, gentle,loving teddy bear.
And my mom got divorced.
It was like, oh my gosh, mom,how could you do this?
How could you divorce our dad?
But that showed me that while mymom can do it, I can do it.

(04:26):
It's okay to divorce them.
You don't have to stay withthem.
So there it was, it was justanother lesson of learned
behavior of how to do that.
But my dad hit me for the lasttime when I was 30 years old.
And I told him that I was goingto divorce my ex-husband.
And he just backhanded me andtold me that was the stupidest

(04:47):
thing I could ever do, that thekids needed him.
And we had a son, of course, andhe needed him.
So that weighed heavy on myheart and in my thoughts that,
yeah, a son does need to But Iwas still able to get the
courage a few months later anddivorce him.
But even though I ended up inthe psychiatric ward, I did end

(05:08):
up moving down with my mom andstepfather.
Then in April, I met myco-defendant.
And he was a real estate broker,had been in the ministry, just a
very suave debonair.
And I thought, oh gosh, youknow, this guy's really nice.
He doesn't abuse me.
He's not jealous.
When you met the co-defender...

SPEAKER_03 (05:27):
I'm guessing you were going off of like looking
for someone exactly the oppositeof your ex-husband at that
point.
What were those little behaviorsthat you were hyper aware of
that you were making sure toavoid at all costs?
Okay,

SPEAKER_02 (05:42):
controlling, that he wasn't controlling me, telling
me I smile too much becausethat's what my ex-husband used
to do.
When guys would talk to me, hewould just get crazy, crazy
insane.
And my co-defendant did not doany of those things.
So it was like, wow.
And the fact that he had been inthe ministry led me to believe
that he was very kind, verygentle.

(06:03):
And his mannerism showed that.
But we were down 4th of July atmy aunt's house and he was
sitting beside the pool and hewas reading a book about
manipulation.
And I said, well, you know, he'sa real estate broker.
So I'm assuming, you know, ithas something to do with his
career.
I look back now and I see redflags.

(06:23):
Yes.
In June, I came home frompicking my son up at the nursery
from my salon.
And I walk in the door, butthere were suitcases sitting
inside my foyer.
Sure enough, he had decided tomove in.
I said, whose suitcases arethese?
And he said, they're mine.
No discussion.
No, no discussion, no even asentence about it.
And I hadn't had people or guyslive with me since my divorce.

(06:48):
That I wasn't comfortable withbecause of the children.
And back then, that's just notwhat we did.
Now it's like, okay, let's dothat.
But back then it wasn't thenorm.
And I noticed that he wasinvolved with a bondsman that
had a bonding company that gotcriminals out of jail.

(07:08):
But I never was that familiarwith him, and it wasn't somebody
that we socialized with.
But I didn't even notice the redflags there, that there was
something not right about it.
I didn't know that was a darkerside that I was unaware of until
this murder happened.
I look back and I see so manythings that I should have paid
attention Instead, I was payingattention to the other things

(07:30):
that I wanted he was doing thatI was just blinded to.

(07:57):
watch for red flags.
I didn't realize to do thatwhenever it wasn't physically
showing any signs of it.
What

SPEAKER_03 (08:04):
were those behavioral traits that you think
you displayed that attractedthese kind of men?
And this is going to be usefulfor anyone who keeps finding
themselves in that cycle againand again.

SPEAKER_02 (08:11):
Yes.
I think it was I didn't ask anyquestions because I had learned
not to ask questions becausewhenever I would ask questions
in my marriage, it was a smackin the face or knocked into a
window or kicked in the ribs andit ended up like that.
So I didn't ask questions.
I recommend and advise anybodythat gets into a relationship,

(08:36):
even men, they need to askquestions.
I think you need to not beafraid to ask questions, not be
afraid to pay attention to theirbehaviors, keeping secrets.
I think that's another thingthat I never paid attention to.
Why would I think he would bekeeping secrets?
He was with me.
We did things together.
He wasn't gone for days.

(08:57):
He didn't abuse alcohol.
All these were the things that Iwas looking at that was nice.
I should have paid moreattention.
I should have asked morequestions.
Of course, today, I know what todo.
So the murder happened.
A hitman was sent to kill usbecause we knew too much about
this.
So what actually

SPEAKER_03 (09:15):
conspired sort of that night in that that kind of
caused this whole situation?

SPEAKER_02 (09:20):
Okay, so I had a girlfriend up in Kansas City
that was dating the gentlemanand my co-defendant and I had
went up there before we starteddating.
He had a conference to go to, areal estate conference.
And okay, believe it or not, Iwas going up there to try to
make amends with my ex-husband.
Now, is that crazy or what?
You know, we were just going asfriends, my co-defendant and I.

(09:41):
And of course, it was a disasterwhen I tried to do that.
And so we were staying at ahotel.
He had one room, I had another.
It was very respectful.
So that was another sign.
Oh my gosh, he's not trying todo anything.
And I thought, wow, that'sreally great.
because I wasn't ready for anyof that after what I'd been
through.
But my girlfriend came over tomeet with us and we were having

(10:05):
drinks in the lounge.
She had mentioned about herboyfriend that lived down in the
area where we were at.
And I guess whenever she hadmentioned that, he perked up and
he wanted to hear more.
And I didn't pick up on that atall.
I thought, okay, well, samearea.
He's a businessman, you know, sono big deal.
And so that's how the victim'sname was brought up.

(10:27):
And And it ended up that hewanted to meet with him.
And whenever he did, it turnedviolent and he killed the

(10:48):
victim.
all my IDs.
I couldn't call my family, butmy family was aware of where we
were going because I was able togive that information to my
mother, but because I neverthought I would be back.

(11:11):
So I accepted the fact that Ididn't know when or how, but I
wouldn't make it back toMissouri.
Then we got up there and myco-defendant became very
abusive.
And that's when I ended upattempting suicide again.
He choked me to the point he hadto buy And he started dealing in

(11:32):
drugs.
And so it was a very, very badsituation.
So I just had resigned to thefact that I wouldn't make it
back to see my children.
But God had a different plan.
I mean, I always tell people, Ifeel like I'm the cat of nine
lives because there's so manytimes I could have died because

(11:53):
the hit man, whenever he came tothe hotel where we were at to
let us know, he was like, I'mgoing to die.
what he was supposed to do.
I should have died then, but Ididn't.
And then we ended up gettingarrested, brought back to
Missouri.
And that's where we had the sameattorney representing both of
us, which is a seriousconstitutional conflict of
interest.
What happened then cannot happentoday to any defendant.

SPEAKER_03 (12:17):
Yes.
So the attorney, in a sense, wasrepresenting the both of you in
this fight together to kind ofhelp the both of you together,
right?
Correct.
So how is there a conflict ofinterest

SPEAKER_02 (12:26):
here?
Because you're you cannothonestly represent one defendant
and allow that defendant to takethe stand because you can't tell
the truth because it's going toaffect the other client.
So I could either not take thestand in my behalf to prove I
did not commit this murder, or Icould be silent, which I was, or

(12:49):
the attorney told me I couldcome up with an alibi, which
would be a lie, you know, that Iwould say that I was with my
mother shopping and And that'swhat he suggested.
And I wasn't even at the scene.
I refused to get my familyinvolved in anything crazy like
this.
That's just not what we woulddo.
What about the stance ofself-defense?

(13:10):
No, he didn't even bring that upas an option.
No.
He just said, you cannot testifybecause it would hurt my
co-defendant, his other client.
So he was getting money fromboth of us.
And so the money played a bigfactor.
But little did I know, myco-defendant was seeing two
other criminal attorneys on theside.
And whenever I went to trialfirst, I was convicted.

(13:33):
He fired that attorney and hiredthese other two and he was
acquitted.
And

SPEAKER_03 (13:37):
somehow managed to kind of make it look like you
were the one that committed themurder.
Exactly.
The reality is you just happenedto be sort of at the scene with
the co-defendant.
Correct.

SPEAKER_02 (13:47):
Because now I really didn't have a defense.
My attorney put on mitigatingcircumstances and mitigating
evidence and care Thank you.

(14:12):
you know, having a defense, Idid not because it would hurt my
co-defendant.

SPEAKER_03 (14:17):
What was the motivation for your co-defendant
though, to put this or pin thison you?
Why not try to fight a case thatwas him acting on self-defense
or someone else at the scenedoing this?

SPEAKER_02 (14:29):
He planted everything to where everybody
saw me, saw my car withpersonalized planes.
He had the whole situation setup to where it looked like that
he wasn't even involved.
He was at a restaurant bar whilemyself and the co-defendant were
having drinks.
And when I went over to talk tohim, he pushed me out of the

(14:51):
way.
He said, don't stop here.
Don't stop here.
Keep going.
And because I was going to therestroom and I saw him and I
thought, what's he doing here?
And so he made sure that he setit up so good.
I mean, that's how good he was.
He was very charismatic, verydebonair, very convincing.
And so he was not He even paidwitnesses to take the stand in

(15:17):
his behalf to make him have analibi witness that he was at a
totally different restaurant barand the bartender said he was

(15:38):
there.
And they gave me signedaffidavits that they were put,
this much money was put on theircommissary, you know, for them
to buy items at the canteen.
He knew what to do to make itlook like he was not guilty.
And then later that year, he wasarrested and convicted of

(16:03):
selling$250,000 worth of cocaineto an undercut or FBI agent.
So his criminal background cameto light.
light.
Sketch, yeah,

SPEAKER_03 (16:13):
exactly.
Super sketch.
Yeah.
What was the motive of all ofthis?
Why were they having theseconfrontations?

SPEAKER_02 (16:21):
Like I said, whenever we went up in April, we
weren't dating, we were friends.
But whenever we came back, hestarted dating me.
So I think in my mind, thingswere starting to be planned in
the very beginning, now that Ilook hindsight.
I think that's when the wheelsstarted turning and and things

(16:43):
started happening and I wastotally blind to it.
I didn't see why I would thinkanything wrong was going on, but
I didn't ask questions.

SPEAKER_03 (16:53):
I should have.
When the court case was goingon, they were trying to do is
find motive for why you would dosomething like this in order to
be able to charge you formurder.
What were the conclusions thatthey had come up with at that
point to find your motive fordoing something like this?

SPEAKER_02 (17:08):
If they feel they have enough evidence, just
circumstantial evidence

SPEAKER_03 (17:12):
That's

SPEAKER_02 (17:13):
enough to convict somebody.
And my co-defendant'sex-girlfriend took the stand and
said that I told her that I shotand killed the victim.
And yes, and she was one ofthem.
They ended up breaking up andshe started dating the person
that lived in Alaska where wewent.
And they lived together then.

(17:34):
So that's how she was affiliatedwith me and knew me because
that's where we went was toAlaska to them.
And I didn't even know that washis ex-girlfriend until after we
got there and all this wascoming out.
And I thought, what?
Yeah, I think she got paid forit, for testifying.
So he was in the county jail.

(17:56):
And the one person that he wastalking with in the county jail,
he put a contract out on me.
And when she came to prison, shebefriended me.
And I thought she was a friend.
Instead, another offender said,Judy, she has a contract on you.
Your co-defendant wants youdead.

SPEAKER_03 (18:12):
He was getting a little bit paranoid when he was
there in prison, like wanted youdead because you might find some
evidence to be able to catch himout for this.

SPEAKER_02 (18:19):
Well, he was fearful that I was going to testify
against him now.

SPEAKER_03 (18:24):
Or testify, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 (18:25):
That's what he was afraid of, that I would take the
stand, and I was going to.
And so whenever the prosecution,they have to let the defense
attorneys know what witnessesthey're going to call.
So he was aware I was going.
to testify.
So he had to counteract that.

(18:45):
And the way to do that was toget other offenders to say that
I told them.
So that would have been fivepeople that would have
contradicted what I was going tosay.
And they came back to the countyjail to testify for him.
And the prosecution later Ifound out because I was housed
at different locations.

(19:06):
And so whenever these fourdefendants, four offenders came
back and was held in the countyjail to testify in his his
behalf, the prosecution said,Judy, I can't put you on the
stand.
And he didn't even tell me.
I didn't even know until afterhe was acquitted why they didn't
use me.
And I thought, what do you mean?
What do you mean offenders arecoming back to testify?

(19:26):
I couldn't understand it.
So it was just, I was in shock.
I could not believe it.
And I didn't know who theseoffenders were.
Until they made parole and theyended up coming back to prison,
they wanted to check inprotective custody because they
They thought I knew who theywere.
And another officer came andsaid, Judy, I've got some

(19:48):
information for you.
And he said, I think we found away for you to get out of
prison.
I said, what?
He said, we've got somebody thatjust came back to prison.
They were career criminals.
So they come in and out, in andout that said that she was
afraid to go in populationbecause she was afraid you would
have her hurt.

(20:08):
I said, for what?
And that's when he told me whatshe had told him.
And he told her, he said, andwitnesses.

(20:43):
And so I got this legal documentand then come to find out there
was another one that came back acouple years after that.
And she also gave me anaffidavit.

SPEAKER_03 (20:52):
I'm curious, did the courts literally only use all of
these testimonies from all thesepeople to kind of charge you?
Was that evidence enough forthem to be able to confirm that
you were the one doing this?
Yes,

SPEAKER_02 (21:06):
because the one that was involved in this, they ended
up giving him immunity the onethat my co-defendant went to
after the murder and said it'sdone it's happened you know and
here's here's the gun here's thebullets and he ended up turning
state's evidence against myco-defendant and they gave him
immunity for doing that but thejury did not believe him in a

(21:32):
co-defendant's trial but theybelieved him whenever he
testified in my behalf althoughhe actually kind of helped me
because he said she had beenshot she didn't know it was
going to happen.
So he ended up testifyingagainst my co-defendant.
My co-defendant's jury did notbelieve him because Greg had
paid so many people to give himan alibi that the jury believed

(21:56):
him.
And he was allowed to addressthe jury himself, which was made
up of women, 12 women.
And I'm telling you, girl, hewas so good at talking to women
that he convinced these womenthat he was innocent, that I was
this black widow that justcoerced him and manipulated him

(22:19):
into doing this, and that hedidn't do it, that I did it, but
I was trying to put it on him.
So it was, oh, girl, I waslivid.
You can't even imagine how angryI was.
One, for going to prison.
One, for him allowing me to goto prison.
And then for putting a hit onme, I thought, oh no, you just

(22:39):
made a King Kong here becausenow I'm ready to fight.
I am going to fight.

SPEAKER_03 (22:44):
And so I did.
At this point, because I do knowa lot of people that have been
sort of like survivors, victimsof abuse, they live under a lot
of fear.
And there's so much coercion andthere's so much almost brain
fog.
And then also having to witnessa murder in front of you.
It's all this trauma that's sortof coming down on you.
And then on top of that, youhave your co-defendant that's
standing there basicallythreatening you in the court the

(23:06):
whole court that's not reallytaking you aside was there any
any point in this at this pointthat you kind of almost started
to believe that like I don'teven know what happened anymore
like maybe I did do this maybeor were you very sure that no
like I had nothing to do withthis this was this was not no

SPEAKER_02 (23:24):
I was very sure nobody in my family would have
ever thought that I would besitting in a courtroom charged
with murder that just was not menot my person No, he could not
convince me.
No, all he did was fuel theanger that ended up because I
figured out you could do twothings with anger.
You can either get bitter or youcan get better.

(23:46):
And I chose better.
And I love my family, mychildren so deeply that I took
that deep love I had for themand the anger that fueled me and
combine those together.
And I fought tooth and nail for36 years to come home.
What was the official sentencefor

SPEAKER_03 (24:04):
you?
for

SPEAKER_02 (24:04):
you.
I could either have gotten orreceived life without parole for
50 years or the death penalty.
The judge did put in theinstructions to the jury that
she was a relatively minorparticipant.
To give the jury a little hintas to she did not commit this

(24:25):
murder, but they evidentlydidn't get the hint.
But that's down the road, ofcourse.
I did 36 years.
The girl that took the contractout on me, that actually helped
establish my ground in theprison and general population.

SPEAKER_01 (24:44):
Because

SPEAKER_02 (24:46):
prison is a very scary, hate-filled, anger-filled
dungeon.

SPEAKER_03 (24:53):
I want to know more about your prison time.
Like, talk to me about that.

SPEAKER_02 (24:58):
Yes.
I went there and it was soforeign.
I mean, I didn't even know whatthey meant when they used some
of their terminology.
Like, if somebody asked you, Iwant a square, what would that
mean to you?
I

SPEAKER_03 (25:10):
want a square.
A fight?

UNKNOWN (25:12):
Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 (25:12):
No.
I want to be even, like fair andsquare.
Let's be even.
What is that?

SPEAKER_02 (25:17):
A square is a cigarette.
Oh.

UNKNOWN (25:23):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (25:24):
All right.
And if they said a goon squad,what does that term mean to you?
Like your crew, your friends?
No, it's the staff that's beentrained in to defuse a riot or
the goon squad's coming.
So everybody hit the deck orweapons or whatever.
And I thought, what do all theseterms mean?
I have no idea.

(25:44):
I don't know how to talk theirlanguage.
What am I going to do?
Because like I said, I was amiddle-class mother,
professional business owner.
This world was just totallyforeign.
Yeah.
Like I'd been dropped off inanother country where I didn't
know anybody, didn't know thelanguage, didn't understand the
rules.
Because they don't have laws,they have standard operating
procedures, which are policiesthat govern you.

(26:06):
You get violations if you go outof bounds and you cross the line
and go into another area of theprison.
You're not supposed to be in.
You get a violation if you havea piece of fruit.
You get a violation if you havesomething in your locker that is
against the rules, like too manyshirts.
You're allowed, what was it, 12shirts, six bottoms.

(26:27):
And you can get a violation ifyou were one item over.
Just crazy things that youwouldn't even think would be a
rule.

SPEAKER_03 (26:35):
Is it in Missouri or was it in?
In Missouri.
No, Missouri.
Now, would you say that it wassort of grouped by race as well.
I've had episodes with maleguests who've been in prison
before and they said it reallyis different groups by race.
They don't really mix.
Is that also the case in afemale prison?

(26:56):
Not so

SPEAKER_02 (26:57):
much so.
I mean, there were some, butthere was not as much as there
are in men's prisons, I don'tbelieve.
Women are more like passiveaggressive.
You have a lot that will attackyou because Missouri no longer
had mental health institutionsafter a few years.
So they would put the mentallyill in prison too.

(27:19):
So you didn't know when somebodywas just going to click out on
you.
That's why you have to bevigilant all the time.
Always pay attention.
Learn to read lips because youdon't know what are they
planning.
So you have to more or less beon high alert 24-7.
Even officers, if they don'tlike you, they have the

(27:40):
authority to make your lifemiserable.
And I had a lieutenant call medown to his office at two
o'clock in the morning when Iwas first new in prison.
And he said, I just want you toknow, Judy, he said, you're
going to have a hard road aheadof you because there's a lot of
female staff that don't likeyou.
I said, great.
You might take my name and youmight take my children from me.

(28:02):
And you might tell me you'regoing to break me down and build
me back up.
But I want you to know I'malready broken.
I'm as broken as I'm going toallow anybody to ever make me.
And what you're giving Gettingready to tackle is not going to
be fun for either one of us.
And I had to just pull up mybootstraps and say, okay, Judy,
you've got to change.

(28:22):
You've got to get therapy tounderstand why you were here,
what happened, why you didn'tsee these red flags.
And that's the first time I'dever heard about battered
women's syndrome.
I went to a workshop and Ithought, oh my God, that's me.
I started doing every program Icould think of that they had
because I had to arm myself withweapons the only weapons that I

(28:46):
had to fight with was my brainand I had to get smarter I had
to learn the statutes the laws Ibecame a certified paralegal
because I had to understand thelaws that got me here and the
court of all the courts that Iwent through my appeals denied
but there was one federal courtthat asked a panel of three

(29:08):
judges asked the federalprosecuting attorney do you feel
there was some sandbag going onin her trial.
And the prosecuting attorneysaid, yes, there is, there was.
And yet they would not overturnmy case because it would affect
too many other cases that hadthe same attorney representing
two defendants.

(29:29):
And it would be too expensivefor the state.
So it was all about the money.
It wasn't about the right or thewrong.
So I had to end up building myteam from the ground up with
politicians.
I had to learn politics.
I had to get sent or staterepresentatives involved.
I had to get a support team.
I reached out to law schools atdifferent universities.

(29:51):
We formed a coalition, myselfand another law professor.
And for 12 women, I ended uphelping pass the battered women
syndrome that became a statuteand law in the state of
Missouri, where women that wereabused and killed their abusers
had a defense whenever they wentto trial.
So that was very I was there tohelp fight for these women.

(30:16):
Did you

SPEAKER_03 (30:18):
find that there were like a lot of the inmates had
been abused before and foundthem were in prison as a result
of some kind of abuse with theirfamily or friends or partners?

SPEAKER_02 (30:29):
Yes.
When I finally saw that I wasgetting healthy and I was
getting understanding better, Irealized there was a lot of
battered women in prison thatdidn't realize they were
battered.
So I started Women AgainstViolence, which is for battered
women, for them to understandthe cycle, the honeymoon phase,
and here we go again.

(30:50):
It was just a vicious cycle, andthat's what abuse is.
It was such a powerful groupthat even the governor's office
sent a representative to sit inon our sessions, and they went
back to the governor's office,and they created a domestic
violence task force in theirstate to fight this for women.
I didn't stop.

(31:10):
I helped a lot of women evenbecome better mothers because a
lot of them didn't know even howto be moms and didn't know how
to navigate communication withtheir children, how to
understand their children's lovelanguages.
How do you mother behind bars?
But I did it.
I was very successful at it.

(31:31):
My daughter and I remained closeall through the years.
She said the one reason, mom,that I didn't know this until
just recently, that I alwaysfelt so safe talking to you and
telling you everything isbecause I knew you couldn't
punish me.
I said, oh, thanks a lot, Angel.
But yeah, there's all sorts ofprograms that I started for

(31:51):
mothers and their children.
And we had to start a programthat involved the family unit,
the relatives, the moms, theaunts, the uncles, the dads, the

SPEAKER_03 (32:02):
cousins.
What were some of the otherpatterns that you found among
the women inmates over there?

SPEAKER_02 (32:08):
Okay, so I became a fitness trainer because I
noticed that there was one thatdidn't like themselves.
They didn't like their bodies.
And I thought, if I can getthese women to love who they are
and put in the work to transformthemselves, that they would end
up not wanting to go back tothat lifestyle.
And so because I always put onmakeup, because I also became a

(32:32):
hairdresser and a dog trainer, Iwas able to put makeup on them,
do their hair, you know, letthem see, look how beautiful you
are.
See?
And it does take all that to bebeautiful but you need to love
who you are whatever that maytake to get you to that point so
that really helped a lot of themand to this day they became

(32:52):
trainers so whenever they gotout they had a profession so we
did a lot of work on theirinside with being battered women
and on the outside to transformthem and it was so rewarding and
one of them that I worked withwhen she came in as a baby lifer
she was like 18 and as a liferwe try to take younger lifers

(33:13):
under our wings because they'repreyed upon.
So I took her under my wing.
Now she's an attorney today.
She did 18 years.
I did 36 years.
It was very rewarding, all thatI was able to do and get
involved with.
I love helping people.
I still do it to this day.
I work with lifers to come home.

SPEAKER_03 (33:35):
Did you ever come across women that just came
across or seemed...
Like not a result of, you know,abuse or not a result, but they
just...

SPEAKER_02 (33:46):
Did it.
It was just innate.
Yeah.
It was just built in them.
Yes.
And those are the ones that wereusually had the mental diseases,
you know, that weren't gettingeither the right medications,
the right combination oftherapy.

SPEAKER_03 (34:04):
But what I'm hearing here, Judy, is that you
genuinely believe that everysingle person in there for some
reason, but not all by their ownchoice, but either it was a
result of their environment orit's a result of a mental
health.
Is that something you believethat?

SPEAKER_02 (34:20):
Yeah, it is something I believe.
I believe that there's a lot ofpeople that if given the right
help, we wouldn't have to havethe population that we have now.
Because you can either be a workstate where you're using these
people as slaves just to do workfor$8.50 a month, or you can not

(34:41):
have as many prisoners and showthem, spend more money on their
rehabilitation, more money ontheir counseling, more money on
helping them mentally.
So, I mean, those are just someof my thoughts.
I don't think that everybodythat's in there should be there.
Yeah, that's a really good wayto put it, I think.

SPEAKER_03 (35:01):
But more on the fun stuff, like talk to me more
about like the crazy fun thingsthat you experienced in prison,
the skills that you learned thatyou probably wouldn't have
learned on the outside.

SPEAKER_02 (35:11):
Sure.
Okay.
Well, I learned how to bake acake out of a package of cookies
and a soda.
So everybody get your pen andpaper out.
I'm going to give you therecipe.
So you take any kind of cookiesyou want, brush them up, put
them in a bowl and put aboutthree fourths of a can of soda.
Doesn't matter if it's Sprite,Dr.
Pepper, root beer, Coke, itdoesn't matter.

(35:33):
Put it in there, mix it up likebatter, stick it in the
microwave, two to four minutes,you know, stick a little
toothpick in it or whatever youhave.
You have a cake.
Then you melt your Hershey candybars and put M&Ms on the top and
you have icing and it's pretty.

SPEAKER_03 (35:49):
It's so amazing that all the Also, is that

SPEAKER_02 (35:54):
like prison alcohol?
Is that a thing?

(36:20):
Yeah, that sounds good.

(36:50):
asked me one day if I would helpthem create a honor dorm for
lifers.
And I said, yeah, of course Iwill.
I said, even though I'm notgoing to be here, I'm going to
help you do this.
And he said, Judy, and theywould tell me this all the time,
you're going to die in prison.
You might as well accept it.
So let's just go ahead and getthis honor dorm created.

(37:11):
I said, okay, but I am goinghome.
I just want you to know that.
I never gave up.
I never said I was going to bethere ever, ever.
I told him the only way I woulddo it is if I could have have a
dog as my cellmate and not anoffender and he said you want a
dog as your cellmate I said yesbecause I was I helped start the
puppies for parole program wherewe would take shelter animals

(37:34):
shelter dogs they would bringthem to us and we would train
them and then they would beadopted so yeah so I got a black
lab in my cell instead of aperson so that was fun to have
on the honor dorm no otheroffender ever had a dog as a
roommate unless you were in theprogram

SPEAKER_03 (37:49):
all of the other the inmates over there must have
been really happy to have alittle dog around in the

SPEAKER_02 (37:55):
prison.
Yeah, they did.
And that dog was trained sowell.
I could take him out on the yardwithout a leash and he would
just stay right by my side.
I don't care if balls wereflying from playing softball or
tennis balls, he would not leavemy side.
And he'd play hide and go seekwith the offenders on the unit.
And he was fun to have.
Well, we would make facials outof egg beaters, you know, the

(38:19):
egg beaters that in a cartonthey would sell those as a
fundraiser because we hadorganizations that I helped
create restorative justiceorganization and you we would
make these have thesefundraisers so we could give
back to the community you knowsend money or buy them things
that they different shelterswould need so we would use that
as our facial um use sugar asour scrub sugar honey honey was

(38:45):
another thing we would put onour

SPEAKER_03 (38:47):
face what about like um your role how did you make
friends when you first entered?
It was very

SPEAKER_02 (38:52):
hard.
When I first went to prison,there was 100 women and we were
in a co-ed prison with men andwomen.
The only one I know, the onlyone in the United States.
Yeah, that was a little craycray.

SPEAKER_03 (39:05):
How would that

SPEAKER_02 (39:10):
even work?
I'm just trying to picture, howwould that even look or work?

(39:35):
The story about our prison wasin one of the, it was a
motorcycle magazine back then inthe 80s about the women's prison
and how there was so manypregnancies.
Because we would go to churchtogether, we would have
recreation together, we could goto classes together.
But you didn't live in the sameunits together, of course, and

(39:55):
you would not have mealstogether because the dining room
was too small.
But we'd play racquetball,handball, do all these other
activities at the gym together.
But there were a also, I realizea lot of abortions because
administration would suggestthat very strongly.
And what are the laws onabortion in Missouri?

(40:17):
You could have abortions backthen.
I

SPEAKER_03 (40:20):
would imagine there would be a lot of fights and
violence over this stuff aswell, over love.

SPEAKER_02 (40:25):
Yes, there was.
What would happen is there wouldbe a lot of jealousies.
Believe this or not, and this isreally crazy now that I look
back, is they would have dancesonce a month and in the gym and
they would listen to recordsback then.
And if anybody put on a fastdance, that was a no-no.

(40:45):
No fast dances, all slow dances.
So you can only imagine.
That was just like, oh my gosh,are you kidding me?
And so the commonality we had isthese women wanted to look good.
They wanted to look nice forthese guys.
So I put on their makeup to warmand I would do their hair.
And my really nice clothes in.

(41:06):
She sent ultra suede suits.
She sent my fur coat into aprison.
And I said, Mom, we cannot havethese things.
I mean, they let me have them,but I said, this is not what you
wear in prison.
She would send me, back then itwas called Fredericks of
Hollywood, kind of likeVictoria's Secret clothes.
I said, no, Mom, not here.

(41:27):
This is not what we wear here.
Now they have uniforms, but backthen you had your own clothes.

SPEAKER_03 (41:33):
Well, what about things like gender-based
violence You know, like peoplethat were in prison for abusing
female partners or like womenthat had been abused and they
were being put in the sameprison.
And now there's that mixhappening.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (41:46):
Because we also had two while I was there that were
in transition of becomingopposite sex.
So they were housed there also.
So it could get pretty crazywith that combination.
But a lot of the women and menformed relationships and ended

(42:07):
up getting married after theyleft.
There was a fight one time.
I was in the visiting roomtalking to one of the guys that
I played racquetball in becauseI was pretty active in sports
and stuff.
in prison.
He said, hey, Judy, let's playracquetball tonight.
I said, sure, sure, we'll play.
So he went to dinner with hisbuddy in the dining room.
Pretty soon, I heard the goonsquad running, and I had

(42:30):
officers come to me and say, wejust want you to know you caused
a fight.
They said, well, so I was havingdinner and telling his buddy he
was going to play racquetballwith you tonight, and they got
into it because you weresupposed to play racquetball
with somebody else, and he tooka fork, and we had metal forks
then.
stabbed him in the hand.
And I said, oh my God, thosestupid things like that would

(42:51):
happen.
And sometimes the guys would getreally jealous of women that was
going to be with other women.
And it was not a well receivedgesture.

SPEAKER_03 (43:03):
So what were the kind of arguments, fights,
violence that was happening inthe all females prison usually
centered around?

SPEAKER_02 (43:09):
Women are pretty passive aggressive usually.
So they will wait and prey onyou.
And sometimes it would be onewoman liking another woman's
woman.
You know, a lot of love, hate.
Maybe one wouldn't have a lot ofmoney.
The other one would have money.
So they were hooked up likethat.
But a fight could generate over,it was my turn in the microwave.

(43:33):
You know, what are you jumpingline for?
Now, what was taken veryseriously is if there was fights
in the dining room, because thatwas an area that would be
considered a riot area.
And so if you got into a fightthere, you would do a lot more
time in the hole.
You would have a different kindof violation than just a
fighting violation.

(43:54):
We did have a food strike onetime because we had so many
women attempting suicide becausewe had a warden that felt
Punishment was the way to dealwith offenders.
We had washers and dryers oneach unit.
He took those, and everybody hadto wash out of buckets,

(44:16):
five-gallon buckets.
And it was so depressing.
We had to hang clotheseverywhere.
He took away so many differentthings, and the girls just
couldn't take the pressure ofeverything that was going on for
his watch.
And so they started hangingthemselves in the prison.
And so we thought,administration has to pay
attention.
Central authorities which was inanother city, had to pay

(44:39):
attention to what was going onin this prison.
So not myself, but I do knowothers that did come up with a
plan to have a food strike,which you always have to send
numbers to central office abouthow many was eating in the
dining room.
How many did you have forbreakfast?
How many did you have for lunch?
How many did you have fordinner?

(44:59):
Because they could kind of seeif there was something brewing
when people didn't go to thedining room room, what's
happening?
Is there a food strike going on?
What's going on?
And so we made sure that thosethat didn't have money had food
to eat.
So we all went on a food strikefor lunch because we knew that

(45:19):
would get attention from centraloffice.
I ended up going to the holebecause I wouldn't tell them who
started the food strike.
The warden, he called me over tohis office and he said,
Henderson, I want to know whostarted this.
And I just, I have no idea.
You know, I don't know what tosay, sir.
I don't know what you're talkingabout.
And he said, I'm going to giveyou one more chance.

SPEAKER_03 (45:39):
I was curious about how many times you found
yourself in the hole in yourtime there.

SPEAKER_02 (45:44):
Well, I went to the hole for that because I wouldn't
tell them, reveal who startedthe food strike.
I was in the hole for having toomany clothes.
I had 96 tops and 35 pair ofshoes.
More than me.
You know what?
Female staff said that theydidn't have that many.

(46:04):
I said, okay, I want you tocount your tops.
Summer, winter, spring, falltops.
And I was so good at hidingthings.
You learn so many differentthings in prison, how to compact
things in a small space.
They sold laundry baskets.
So I had six laundry basketslined up under my bed and I
would put clothes underneath mymattress because it was only an

(46:26):
inch on a metal bed.
And then I made shoe racks outof sheets to hang at each end of
the, we had a closet at thisprison.
And so it took four officers,six hours to go through my
property and I got a violation.
So I went to the hole for thatimmediately.

(46:49):
Yeah, but you know, the firstyear of my, well, the first two
years, I got 23 violations.
After that, they really werevery few and far between.
I think for a total of 36 years,I ended up with maybe, maybe 28
Right.
But you do have staff that willtry to write you up for nothing

(47:13):
just because they don't likeyou.
But by that time, I had learnedthe policies enough and the
rules enough that I would quotethem back to them and challenge
them.
If you do write me up, I'm goingto grieve you because you have
no right to do this.
And they would tell me Icouldn't do this.
And I would say, well, then youcan't do that.

(47:34):
Because if you do that, you'reviolating a rule.
And they'd say, okay, Judy, goahead and do it.
So it was like, don't play thesegames with me because I'm going
to play them back with you.
We had on one officer when Ifirst came to prison that was
there for, well, he was aproperty room officer.
So we had a lot of pull with theoffenders to get their property
if they wanted it.

(47:55):
But you had to do sexual favorsfor him.
And I absolutely refused.
And by that time, I was alreadyso angry, you know, that don't
mess with me because I will getyou back.
I had to figure out a way to gethim out of there because so many
of the women that were beingabused were just constantly
crying and just, I mean, it wasaffecting them in such horrible

(48:16):
ways.
So I ended up setting him up andwhere he had to call me down for
my contact solution because theydidn't have it in the canteen.
He wouldn't call me down for myproperty.
He would make my sister takethose home, take any property
that was sent out home with himor with them.
When he called me down, I saw anofficer that wasn't one of the

(48:36):
good old boys that would brushit under the rug.
He was a very strict caseworkerthat would report anything he
saw.
So I thought, here's how we'regoing to play this.
And I was thinking in my headreal fast, he's coming down the
hall.
If I time it just right, he'sgoing to look in here because
I'm going to leave the door openand he's going to see what's
going on.

(48:56):
And so I went in, the propertyofficer gave me my contact
solution.
He said, now, what do I get,Judy?
I said, anything you want.
And so he grabbed me and startedkissing me and I was facing the
door.
So I saw the case where He sawit, and I went up to my cell,
and I knew it was just a matterof minutes before I'd be called
to the warden's office.
I went down there.

(49:18):
There was the investigator.
There was the warden, theassistant warden, and, of
course, the caseworker and him.
And I walked in.
They said, Judy, we understandyou were just kissing the
property room officer.
I said, no, he was kissing me.
And he jumped up, and he threw afit.
I didn't do that.
She's a manipulator.
I didn't do anything like that.

(49:38):
I said, okay, I request a PSE,which is a voice test, voice lie
detector test.
He refused to take one.
I passed it.
They gave him early retirement.
So he went to...
That's too lenient though.
Oh, yeah.
That's what they did back then.
They did not.
And still, even in our newChillicothe prison where I was

(50:00):
at, we had cases where Itestified what I did in
deposition for several girlsthat were being sexually
molested by officers.
And this was after I came home.
It is a common place for that tooccur in women's prisons.
And so I will fight for thattill the day I die to get those

(50:20):
officers out of there.

SPEAKER_03 (50:22):
It seems like, yeah, it is kind of like what of those
situations where very easy forthese officers to get away with
this because one whoever's inprison is already seen as guilty
you know as manipulative andwhatever so they're by default
already at a disadvantage andthen they're women and they're
easy to prey on and they'realready vulnerable many of them
have been victim of these thingsthey've been silenced for so

(50:45):
long so yeah it's an easy target

SPEAKER_02 (50:47):
it is easy and there's very few that will
actually stand up and fightagainst that but I I had
established myself well enoughin the prison where I won
several violations that Ireceived.
They were thrown out completely.
One officer, she ended up havinga stroke because it stressed her
out so bad because she couldn'tget me.

(51:08):
She ended up coming back to workafter she recovered somewhat.
She couldn't work in generalpopulation.
She had to work in an office.
But she came to my cell door andshe said, Judy, I want to
apologize.
I said, okay, for what?
And she said, for always beingso mean to you.
and trying to write you up.
I said, thank you.
Because I told her when thishappened to her, I saw her and I

(51:31):
said, I'm so sorry.
I said, I've kept you in myprayers.
I wasn't a mean spirited person.
I didn't want to see things likethat to happen.
But if you're going to come atme and try to always get me in
the hole, tear up my property,plant things that shouldn't have
been there and write me up forbribing an officer when I didn't
even have a conversation withyou about bribery, that officer

(51:53):
ended up becoming a a whiteshirt, which is a captain or a
lieutenant or a sergeant.
And she came back years laterand said she wanted to apologize
for giving me that violation,but she was told to do it that
morning at roll call just sothey could have something to put
me in the hole for.
So there's a lot of, a lot thatgoes on in the prisons that
people don't have a clue about.
What was the hole like?

(52:15):
The hole, sometimes I would beput in solitary confinement
where there was two big doors,no windows and a concrete slab.
You slept But you did have, itwas called a wet cell, so you
had a stool and a sink, and theywould give you your food through
what they call a chuck hole,which they slide your tray in,

(52:36):
and you have no contact withanybody, nobody.
The other hole, which issegregated, they call it, there
are cells next to each other, soyou can talk to people, you can
communicate, you can haveconversations all day and not be
alone.
They give you books to read.
And I did a lot of exercisingwhenever they would put me in

(52:57):
the hole.
But they did end up sending meto Arizona for four years over
that property officer that gotfired.
Yeah.
They wanted to put me in aprison that housed a lot of
incorrigibles from all aroundthe United States.
And they wanted me away from myfamily.
So they sent me to Arizona forfour years.
I thrived there.

(53:17):
That's where it's a wealthystate.
So they had all kinds of collegeclasses, all kinds of
activities.
And that's where I started WomenAgainst Violence.
did a lot of good things thereand got a lot of good, serious
therapy.
And then God was always a partof my journey too.
I want to give him the glory forgiving me the resilience, giving

(53:37):
me the courage.
I always had Jeremiah 29, 11above my cell mirror.
I know the plans I have for you,a future and prosperity and good
health.
And prison was not a future.
So I knew, you know, what hedoes for one, he's going to do
for another and he shows nofavors And I got a lot of women
out of prison.
So I knew I was coming.

(53:58):
And I got double the blessingbecause my sentence was commuted
to life served, time served.
The governor came to the prisonthat day to give me my
paperwork, which I didn't knowhe was coming.
And six months later, gave me afull pardon.
So I was totally exonerated withthe help of my prosecutor that
put me in prison.

(54:18):
And a lot of lot of supporters.

SPEAKER_03 (54:21):
So that's why I'm sitting here with you today.
Yeah.
What was that moment like, thatday that you were told that?

SPEAKER_02 (54:29):
Oh, I don't even know if there's words.
I fell to my knees cryingbecause I was teaching a fitness
class.
And so I didn't have my makeupon.
I wasn't ready.
I had makeup on, but I wassweaty.
And so it was like, oh my gosh.
And they kept telling me, Judy,you have to go to the visiting
room.
You have to go to the visitingroom.
I said, I'm not going.
That's not me.

(54:49):
That's another Henderson.
And they said, no, it's you.
And if you don't go, you're justgoing to the hole.
I said, okay, I'm going.
I'm going to the visiting room.
And so I got up there and I hadto wait like an hour and a half
because they said it was anattorney visit but I knew my
attorney wouldn't come withoutletting me know because
everybody knew do not go visitJudy unless she knows you're
coming because she will not beready and you will wait until

(55:13):
she gets her makeup on until shegets her hair done and so they
knew not to come unexpectedly soI just thought oh my gosh
because I had filed clemencysince 1983 with six governors
and I was on my seventh governorum But unbeknownst to me, he
came, my seventh governor'snumber of completion.

(55:35):
And when I saw him, I just fellto my knees bawling because I
knew it had to be good.
And so he had me

SPEAKER_01 (55:44):
sit down in a chair.
And he said, on behalf of thestate of Missouri, I want to
commute your sentence to lifeserved.
And he said, you're going to gohome today.

(56:04):
And I said,

SPEAKER_02 (56:04):
what did you just say?
He said, you're going to go hometoday.
Today, right now.
And he said, right now.
And the warden came in and helet me know that I would be
taken down to my cell to pack myproperty and that I could see
whoever I wanted to see and tellthem bye.
And the governor said, I want toget out of the way because
people are here that hadn'tgiven up hope on you and had

(56:27):
fought for you all this time.
And I'm going to get out of theway so they can come in and see
you.
And then what my daughter and myson and my grandchildren and my
attorneys.
And we just sit there and heldeach other and cried.
And it was happy tears, ofcourse.

SPEAKER_03 (56:42):
Can you talk to me a little bit about adjusting to
life outside?
What were the new things thatyou'd seen?

SPEAKER_02 (56:47):
Well, by the time I got to my daughter's house, I
didn't know there was going tobe tons of people there.
And so that was crazy seeingeverybody.
And it was joyful, of course,but I spotted so strawberries.
And I thought,

SPEAKER_00 (57:04):
I can have strawberries?
That was like really cool tohave a strawberry.

SPEAKER_02 (57:10):
And I still wasn't used to eating with metal forks,
spoons and stuff.
I would look for plasticware inmy daughter's kitchen.
I'd say, Angel, where's theplasticware?
I can't find anything to eatwith.
She said, Mom, you can have afork, a metal fork.
So sometimes she'd have toremind me.
And the seatbelt.
She would always have to tellme, Mom, put on your seatbelt.

(57:31):
And the Then getting used tosleeping in a bed that without a
mattress, it's just an inchthick.
I thought I was going to have tosleep on the floor the first
night because it was too soft.
I couldn't do it.
Then I had my own bathroom withmy bedroom.
And it was like, I walked inthere and I thought, where am I
going to put my toothbrush?
There's too much room in here.

(57:52):
I'll never find it.
Because we're used to just alittle metal locker to put our
toothbrush in.
Left side, top shelf.
It just felt weird to have somuch space.
And then whenever I went to yourbathrooms out here, it was like,
okay, I stood up.
How do you flush this stool?
What do you do?
Because I hear nothing andthere's no handle.

(58:13):
I don't know how to flush it.
And so I'd have to have Angel goto the bathroom with me several
times before I could learn allthe different ways of how to
flush a stool or how to turn onthe sink and how to get soap.
We had a bar of soap.
Good grief.
And now you have it in thesecontainers.
You have water.
You just put your hand under thefaucet and it comes on.

(58:35):
And it was like, this is toomuch.
And the population, the roads,just so much traffic.
And the total environment hadchanged.
The landmarks had changed.
I didn't even recognize anythinganymore.
Where do you go eat?
You have so many places.
And everybody asked me, Judy,where do you like to eat?

(58:56):
What's your favorite place?
I said, I don't know.
That's a big decision to makebecause I like it all.

SPEAKER_03 (59:02):
Right.
Right.
So in a way, you're kind ofprobably feeling really lonely
in this really crowded space andjust like, so like, I'm kind of
lost.
Like, what do I do with this?

SPEAKER_02 (59:10):
Yeah, it was.
And I know it was December 20th,whenever I was released.
My daughter hadn't shopped yet.
She said, come on, mom, we haveto speed shop.
I said, what are you talkingabout speed shop?
I haven't even been in a store.
And so we went shopping and itwas like, oh my God, I'm in this
store.
What do I do?
All these, you know, all thesepeople that's just going here

(59:31):
and going there and not payingany attention to me.
And then you have these machineswhere you put cards.
Nobody pays with money.
And it's like, what are thesemachines and what are these
cards everybody's using?
They're using different kinds ofcards.
And I thought, I will neverunderstand what all this means.
It's too much.
So it was really challenging.

(59:54):
The inside of a car looked likea cockpit.
All these gadgets and all thesebuttons.
I thought, I will never be ableto learn how to drive because
I'm a afraid I'll eject myselfout of the car or something, you
know.
And then my son-in-law got me aniPhone.
And I'd never seen an iPhonebefore.
And I asked him, what do you dowith this?
And now I can just maneuver itlike it was nothing.

(01:00:16):
Whenever I went in, phones wereon the wall.
And during my incarceration,phones were still on the wall.
We didn't have, you know,tablets.
We didn't have computers.
So, yeah, technology was, oh mygosh, I wouldn't never
understand these computers.
Then I went to give a talk atCatholic Charities of Kansas

(01:00:37):
City, St.
Joseph, an agency that helps thepoor, helps the homeless and
babies.
They wanted me to come to workfor them.
I said, work?
I said, I think I'm retired fromprison.
I don't know how I can work atyour agency.
I don't know anything aboutcomputers or anything like that.
And they said, we're going toteach you.
And so I've been there for sixyears.

(01:00:58):
I just can't imagine not doingthat because it's so rewarding
helping so many different areasof their lives and still being
able to help offenders when theycome home and get them housing
and get them food and get them ajob that's all so important to
me yeah

SPEAKER_03 (01:01:14):
and the way you're really helping with that
recidivism stuff right likebecause we know that there's
people that end up re-offendingbecause they're not being given
the support that they need

SPEAKER_02 (01:01:23):
yes and I still work on different laws getting passed
here in the state of Missouriand for those that are still
incarcerated that do need tocome home I still meet with
politicians in their behalf andwork with their families.
So the work is never done.
And then when people startedhearing my story, they said,
Judy, you have to write a book.

(01:01:44):
You have to let people know andgive them hope.
Let them know that it's nothopeless.
And so, like I said, it took ussix years to do When the Light
Finds Us.
And I hope everybody grabs thebook, enjoys the book, and try
to put yourself, whatever yoursituation is in your life, Yeah,
I love that.

(01:02:32):
attention whenever you get outto make sure he's not in a crowd
where you're at or something.
So I, of course, I don'tacknowledge him by his name.
I don't want to honor him in anyway.
I forgave him.
I forgave the system that didthis to me because there's two
things you, like I said earlier,you can either get bitter or get

(01:02:52):
better, but I want it to bepositive.

SPEAKER_01 (01:02:55):
I

SPEAKER_02 (01:02:55):
did a vision board.
Everything on my vision boardhas come true except for a
couple of sports cars and a jet.

UNKNOWN (01:03:02):
And

SPEAKER_02 (01:03:02):
But everything else has come true.
We're hoping to do a movie, youknow, from this story.
Life is good.
I can't be angry about anythingout here.

SPEAKER_03 (01:03:15):
My life is great.
Make your life

SPEAKER_02 (01:03:33):
better.
Make it what you want it to be.
Create a vision board.
I made one out of two backs oflegal pad cardboard.
It was very generic, but I'lltell you that vision board keeps
you focused on your goals.
You keep saying it.
You keep believing it, and itwill happen.
Trust me.
Yes, it does happen.

(01:03:53):
I love that.

SPEAKER_03 (01:03:54):
Judy, thank you so much for being on Multispectrum
with us today.
You're welcome.
I really, really appreciate yousharing this.

SPEAKER_02 (01:04:00):
Well, thank you for having me.
And I appreciate you letting meshare my story.

SPEAKER_03 (01:04:09):
If you enjoyed the episode and would like to help
support the show, please followand subscribe.
You can rate and review yourfeedback on any of our platforms
listed in the description.
I'd like to recognize our guestswho are vulnerable and open to
share their life experienceswith us.
Thank you for showing us we'rehuman.
Also, a thank you to our teamwho worked so hard behind the
scenes to make it happen.

SPEAKER_00 (01:04:30):
The

SPEAKER_03 (01:04:33):
show would be nothing without you.
I'm Jenica, host and writer ofthe show, and you're listening
to...
Thank you.