How I Healed After Childhood Sexual Abuse (CSA): Jessica Ella's Story

Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_00 (00:04):
When I was three years old, my father started
sexually abusing me.
He abused me all throughout mychildhood.
Not just sexually, physically,emotionally, psychologically,
bullying, threatening to killme.
My first memory of him tellingme, I'm gonna kill you and bury
you there if you tell anybodywhat I've done.
He had these like crazy eyes.

(00:26):
When he would shiftpersonalities or when he would
become abusive, it's like hiseyes went black.
I was trying to like understandspirituality on like a
scientific, logical level.
And then I moved into likeemotions and somatics and breath
work and how how to tap into ourbody.
And then I then I startedlearning like memory processing.

(00:46):
The next level version ofyourself that you become is even
better than what you've justexperienced.

SPEAKER_03 (00:57):
Where does it all begin for you?

SPEAKER_00 (00:59):
Oh wow.
It's such a such a big story.
If I was to really pick a momentwhere it all began and where I
sort of ended up how I where Iam now.
I became obsessed with traumaand with how to heal trauma and
how trauma healing works in my20s.
And it felt just like a hobby tome.

(01:22):
And I didn't realize until manyyears later that I was so
obsessed with it because I wastrying to figure out how to fix
myself, how to heal my owntrauma.
And so I guess it really, reallystarted when I was three years
old.
My father was sexually abusiveor started sexually abusing me.
It could have happened earlierthan that, but I don't have any

(01:43):
conscious memories.
And he abused me all throughoutmy childhood.
Not just sexually, it was quitefrequently sexual abuse, but
also, but also physically, alsoemotionally, also
psychologically, also verycritical.
Bullying, threatening to killme, just every type of abuse

(02:03):
that you could pretty muchimagine was that my reality with
my father.
And he was also raised by areally, we'll call him evil man
because I it's the only wordthat comes to mind for him.
His father was also quite anevil man, and he actually raped
me and took my virginity when Iwas seven years old.

(02:24):
So I spent alongside all of thattrauma that was happening at
home and within my family andthings that are just so much for
a child to comprehend.
I also would go to my mum'shouse.
They divorced when I was when Iwas around seven, and my mum was
quite dissociated, had her ownstuff going on, had her own
stuff happen with him.

(02:44):
And so I felt quite alone there.
And I would go to school and Iwould be bullied in school every
single day.
And I just went from trauma totrauma to trauma and literally
spent my entire childhood and myteens and most of my 20s in just
survival, just in waiting forthe next hit because there was

(03:06):
always something else thathappened, whether it was being
cheated on, or whether it wasfriendships like friendships
breaking down, or in my 20s, Iwas raped by my father
unexpectedly because the abusehad stopped for quite a few
years.
And then there was just like Igot I got bitten by a tick, I
got diagnosed with Lyme disease,I had a molar pregnancy, which

(03:27):
was like this super rarecondition.
And it was just like thisonslaught of something big
happening every like six monthsand just stacking of this
trauma.
And yeah, when I hit my 20s, Istarted trying to heal.
And I was trying to, at thatpoint, I had repressed a lot of

(03:48):
trauma and I didn't know why Iwas suffering so deeply the way
that I was.
And that's why I was trying touncover, you know, how it all
works and how you heal.
And yeah, and that kind of setme on this path to really, I
wanted to like crack the code.
I wanted to understand, like, itwasn't good enough for me that
you just had to deal with whathappened.

(04:09):
Like I saw all these, read allthese forums and these people
saying, like, you just can'theal from that much trauma.
You just can't heal from thatlevel of trauma.
It's too much, it's always gonnastay with a person.
And I was like, no, fuck that.
That's not me.
I don't want that.
I'm not putting up with that.
I'm gonna find a way.
And that just became my literalobsession for the last 15 years.
And I actually kind of fell intoit as a career by by accident

(04:33):
because I just was so passionateabout it that people started
wanting to work with me and seeme and like, how did you do it?
And it just kind of happened byaccident.
So definitely was where I wasmeant to be and what I'm meant
to be doing.
But that's kind of like a reallybroad overview of like what led
me here.

SPEAKER_03 (04:52):
I'm guessing you lived with your father when this
was all happening, and so itbeing able to happen on such a
regular basis.

SPEAKER_00 (04:59):
No, so it started around three, and it happened
when my mum was out of the houseand things like that until I was
seven.
And then they divorced when Iwas seven.
And my mum did havepredominantly custody, so I
would only see my dad onWednesday nights and every
second weekend, but everyopportunity that he had, he
would take.
So it was being abused sort ofonce a week.

(05:22):
I can only gather by the volumeof memory.
The thing that people don't kindof realize is that like when
it's happened from such a reallyyoung age, because my father was
so horrible to me when he wasn'tabusing me, I very quickly
linked that time with him andthat sexual abuse as what love
is.
And so it was uncomfortable andit felt icky and it made me

(05:44):
feel, you know, yuck ordisgusting.
But it was also like somewhatnormal until later on in my life
when I realized it wasn'tnormal.
And then it was, then it was adifferent scenario each time it
happened because it you knew howwrong it was.

SPEAKER_03 (05:59):
Do you feel like that sort of somehow being this
ritualistic um occurrence thatjust kept happening and it sort
of being normalized like a partof your routine?
Do you think that that may havebeen a reason for why you didn't
feel like you could reach out topeople and and tell people about
what's going on?
Or for example, during thecustody battle, you know, in the
divorce process, like for thatkind of information to come out,

(06:20):
which could be momentous in kindof cutting that relationship.

SPEAKER_00 (06:25):
Well, the thing is, my mum was really afraid of my
dad.
So she wasn't really pushingback on him in any way.
It was, you know, the 90s, early2000s.
So custody was basically likeeveryone I knew saw their dad
once a week, and every secondweekend, like that was just like
mums get this, dads get this.
And there wasn't really muchmore into that.

(06:47):
But the reason that I didn'ttell was this really plays into
the two personalities that Ideveloped, which was that one
side of me excessively lovedhim, like almost to the point of
a romantic connection.
Like I loved him, and now, as Ican see, looking back in a way
that you're not supposed to loveyour dad, because obviously I
was I was groomed that way.

(07:09):
But I loved him excessively.
Like I just, I adored him, Iworshipped him.
I just, he was everything.
And so I was so afraid of losingthat, losing his love.
Like when he would scream at meand yell at me, I would, I
would, I would panic and I wouldhope that.
And I even once said to him,like, when are we gonna have our

(07:29):
special time?
Because I just so needed him tolove me.
And that was the only way that Iknew how to get it.
And so I didn't want to, Ididn't want to break ties with
him.
I didn't want to not see himagain when I was that age, when
I was seven.
It was only in my teen yearsthat I started to be like, I
hate you.
But around that younger age, Ijust like, and it's gotta be

(07:51):
biology.
Like, I needed him for survival.
I felt like I needed him.
And on the other side, I wasterrified of him because from
five years old, is my firstmemory of him telling me, this
is where I'm gonna bury you inthe backyard, like right over
there.
This is where I'm gonna buryyou.

(08:11):
I'm gonna kill you and bury youthere if you tell anybody what
I've done.
And he would repeat that to meoften.
He came into my bedroom onenight and held a pillow over my
face when I was only five, likesuffocating me and then letting
me breathe, suffocating me,letting me breathe, and just
reminding me this is where I'llbury you.
So there was like, ain't no wayI'm gonna tell anybody because
on one hand, I'll die, or I'lllose my dad and I'll lose that

(08:36):
love.
And at that point, I thoughtthat as well, this is where the
psychological comes into it.
I thought he was my only sourceof love because he told me all
the time, your mom doesn't careabout you, your mom doesn't love
you, she's weak, she's pathetic,she can't do anything, she
doesn't, she just doesn't evencare about you.
And I believed that because hewas telling it to me all the
time and saying, I love youbecause look, I do this and I do

(08:57):
this.
And so it was just like, I can'tlose him because then I that's
the only person that loves me.
And then I'm gonna I'm gonnalose him and I'm gonna have no
one.
So there was this like fight inme all the time of like safety,
losing love.
And it just it made itimpossible as a child to tell.

SPEAKER_03 (09:16):
Can you walk me through?
I mean, in your in yourprofessional expertise, how
would you describe the traitsand behaviors of an abuser for
anyone who's listening and maybeunaware, like, am I in something
abusive?

SPEAKER_00 (09:28):
Yeah, I noticed this when I speak to mums and they're
like not sure if there'ssomething's happening to their
child and wanting to know from abehavioral perspective, he was
very controlling.
He was always, he was alwaysputting on a show outside of the
house.
He was always like reallyconcerned with other what other
people thought of him and hisappearance, very vain.

(09:50):
Um, but he was also very, veryhot and cold up and down.
And my relationship with him wasuh I was very, you know, I think
kids are attached to theirparents and they love their
parents, but then there is aline where if that child is just
so defensive of that parent,scared, like so afraid of losing

(10:11):
that parent, like hyper-attachedto them, that can be a sign as
well.
Like excessive um time spentwith that child over other over
the other children or differenttreatment, like treating
children in different ways.
So I was like the the one thatwas was criticized and put down
and like sort of isolated andput to the side, whereas my

(10:33):
sister was like was kind ofworshipped and she was treated
in a different way to mybrother.
And so treating differentchildren in different ways
actually also pits them againsteach other because then they
have different relationshipswith that parent, and then
they're less likely to like bondthemselves.
So that was another sign.
But then also, like he was aserial cheater, he was addicted

(10:56):
to porn, he had porn everywhere,like it was back in the 90s, so
it was like magazines andvideotapes, but like in his
truck in the bathroom, like heleft them laying around, like he
didn't care who saw thatcontent.
So, like his in his mind, it wasobviously somewhat normalized
because he was watching it somuch, and that's actually a
really common sign.
Like men that are quite addictedto porn.

(11:19):
Um yeah, and just this.
I know that this is like notsomething that you can pinpoint,
like you might not pinpointeasily, but so many people said
to me, and I noticed his eyes,like he had these like crazy
eyes, like when he would shiftpersonalities or when he would
become abusive, it's like hiseyes went black.

(11:40):
And I just can't, I kinda it'slike soulless eyes, and I just
I've noticed other people thatI've like that have come out as
abusers or that have like beenfound as abusers, and I always
know straight away because likethey have this look, they have
these eyes.

SPEAKER_03 (11:56):
And yeah, it's um that's so interesting.
It's like those, it reminds meof those, like those, some of
those like murder documentaries,and you know, when when someone
says like I saw black, you know,I couldn't, I don't know what
happened after that.
I just blacked out.
It's it's almost like thatdissociation in a sense.

SPEAKER_00 (12:13):
It is, yeah.
And and I'm sure that they arelike literally switching into a
different personality becausethey speak different and they
act different.
And that's another thing aswell, like shifting into having
these like really distinctdifferent versions of
themselves.
Like if you're in a marriagewith somebody and you know that
they shift personalities withinthat marriage, they can be
really nice and loving and warm.

(12:34):
And the next minute coldswitched off, they have those
dark eyes, they treat you reallydifferently.
They're kind of doing this upand down.
It gives you a pretty goodindication that they've they are
shifting between personalities,essentially, which you know,
DID, dissociative identitydisorder, they're dissociating
and going into this differentversion of themselves.
If they're doing that, that'snot to say they're a predator,

(12:54):
but it is a pretty like tellingthere's a pretty strong
connection there between peoplewho do that.

SPEAKER_03 (13:42):
Now, I also want to ask, looking back on your
experience, what with the body,the body changes or the ways
that you were behaving andacting?
Did you notice any other kind ofphysical things in you that
maybe maybe someone on theoutside would be able to see you
and say, hmm, something is notright here?

SPEAKER_00 (14:01):
Yeah.
I mean, I had headaches everyday.
I had tummy issues as a kid.
I had lots of eye tests, andthere was nothing wrong with my
eyes, but I couldn't seeproperly, which now I know is
dissociation.
Um, but like those headaches,tummy issues, and eye issues all
combined together give you apretty clear indication of
trauma.
What's actually so fascinatingis that when I was five, the

(14:23):
opening of my vagina or of myvulva, sorry, closed over.
It was called labial fusion.
And so a skin, a layer of skingrew over the opening so that
nothing could go in.
And I just find that that islike, you know, that might sound
a bit woo-woo to some people,but I feel like that was my body
protecting itself, like tryingto grow this layer of

(14:45):
protection.
And this is probably would be agood question for my mum.
When I came forward and shespoke to some of her girlfriends
who she's had for many years,one of them actually said to
her, you know, I actually had afeeling about him.
And I noticed that when we wouldgo out together and go out for
coffee or whatever and comeback, she always had a red
vagina.

(15:05):
She always had issues or she hadlike, you know, nappy, you you
would think it was nappy rash,but she always, it was red and
inflamed, and it shouldn't havebeen like that.
And I actually had this feelingand I should have said
something, which, you know,people don't.
Um, but there was definitelythings that my mum looking back
was thinking, yeah, okay, likeJess had compared to her

(15:26):
siblings.
I had like huge emotionaloutbursts.
I couldn't control my emotions.
I had anger issues later on inlife where I would just, I would
switch and I would rage and Ijust had all these feelings I
didn't know what to do with.
And um I had this rash that Iused to like lick my lip and dry
it, lick my lip and dry it.

(15:46):
Like I was obviously souncomfortable with like my mouth
and with things that I'd donewith my mouth.
And so there was this like thisobsession or this tick where I
would lick and dry my lip allthe time.
So I ended up with this hugerash around my lips, which now
I've discovered is like a reallycommon sign, and people call it
the sexual abuse rash, like liprash.
And so there are like thesethings that I was doing that I

(16:09):
realized now like I wasuncomfortable in my body in
those certain areas.
And so my body responded or Iresponded with like with these
ticks or with like my skinliterally growing over the
opening of my vagina, which iswild.
And I have had people come tome, they've heard me share that,
and they're like, my daughterhad that happen and she hasn't
been abused and you shouldn'tsay that, which you know, even

(16:31):
that pr really defensive,protective part can sometimes be
something to look at too,because if we don't think it's
relevant, we could probably justlet it go.
But if we're really fired up bythat, there's probably a reason.

SPEAKER_03 (16:43):
Did you at that point feel like you had any
place where you could feel safe,like really safe?
Like talk to me about that firsttime you shared it with someone.

SPEAKER_00 (16:56):
Yeah, so the only time that I felt safe, I I
definitely wasn't gonna besharing it with with my mum or
anyone when I was younger.
I did feel safe.
My mum's parents lived in inQueensland, so they lived like
on the other side of the countrypretty much, and we would go up
there once or twice a year forholidays, and they're very

(17:18):
loving, safe people.
But and I would feel really,really safe there, and it was
such a like an exhale to be upthere with them.
Um, but it wasn't there enoughto sort of like get that bond or
that feeling of I can tell themand nothing will happen.
There was just always thisoverriding fear of I will die.

(17:39):
But I did tell the first personthat I told was one of my dad's
girlfriends, and it was when Iwas around eight years old.
And I actually told her quiteinnocently because in my mind I
had kind of like gathered thatit was a secret between me and
him, and that I wasn't allowedto tell anyone outside of the

(18:00):
family, but because she was hisgirlfriend and she was like a
part of it, our that little, youknow, family, it felt like, oh,
I could probably tell herbecause she's like with him now.
And so that was just how mybrain was at eight.
And I told her, and she shepanicked and got really

(18:22):
emotional.
We were doing the dishes, andshe like dropped the dish and
she was hysterical.
And my father came into the roomand was like, What's happening?
Like, what did you say?
What's going on?
And she said what I had said,and then he was like, What the
fuck is wrong with you?
Like, and he just in my face,pointing, spit flying, like

(18:43):
screaming, saying red, like youcan't fucking say that.
It's it's a really big deal,it's illegal, like you, you,
it's a really serious matter.
Like, you need to tell her rightnow that you're lying.
Like, why would you say that?
Like, you know, just basicallydamage control.
And he just kept saying to me,you need to tell her the truth.
Tell her the truth.
Tell her that it's a lie, tellher that that is not happening,

(19:04):
blah, blah, blah.
So I ended up saying to her, I'msorry, I I lied.
And then he sent me to my room.
He sent her home and told herthat she needed that he needed
time with me to figure out whatwas happening here and why I was
lying about this.
And then he did it to me again.
And I was so confused of like,why is it such a if you just

(19:24):
told me that you could go tojail and that it's illegal and
that it's a really bad bad thingand it's a secret, why are you
doing it to me again?
And that was kind of like a bitof a pivotal moment because I
was like, oh, this is this isactually wrong.
And yeah, I would have had tohave maybe I was a bit older
than eight.
I might have even been likenearly 10 at that point.

(19:45):
I know like, again, liketimelines are really difficult,
especially when you're blockedout years.
I know which houses I live in,but it's like hard to place your
hard to place your ages.
But and then after that, Ididn't tell anyone until I told
my best friend when I was aroundlike 13, 14.
And he I had, as I mentioned,like I was really bullied, had

(20:09):
really big issues with friends,being bullied every day at
school, and there was thisbeautiful boy who just became my
best friend, and he was soprotective and so loving, and
just the most beautiful, happy,smiley boy.
And I formed a really strongbond with him, and he became my
best friend, and I told him, andhe was quite protective and

(20:30):
quite um quite upset about itand you know, wanted something
to happen.
Um, but a few months later hewas hit by a car and killed, so
that nothing ever happened withthat.
Obviously, he yeah, never wentanywhere.
After that, I was tortured by mydad and my grandfather.
They got together and decidedthat they needed to scare me a

(20:54):
little bit more so that I didn'tspeak up.
My grandfather told me this iswhat happens when you speak.
And there was a day where theyjust really sadistically
tortured me.
They got got together and yeah,like things that just are
incomprehensible to most people.
Um quite yeah, awful.

SPEAKER_03 (21:14):
And so after that, I didn't tell anyone until I was
30, until I'd done a lot ofhealing work and my grandfather
had died, and it's one of thosethings that it's just so hard to
like wrap your head aroundbecause I guess it's just what
kind of pain must you be livingwith, or anger must you be

(21:38):
living with to be able to dosuch a thing to a vulnerable
young child and justify thosebehaviors.
And I and I think like we as asa public, as a population, we
have a tendency to kind of bereally one way or the other way
about it.
Um, and there's obviouslynothing that can justify that

(21:59):
behavior.
I am curious though, as to whatis the background of your dad
that allow himself to do thethings that he did.

SPEAKER_00 (22:10):
Yeah.
I think that day where theytortured me was a really pivotal
moment in me, understandingthere was there was multiple
moments throughout that daywhere my dad was really
terrified for me and was like,no, you know, stop, like you're
gonna kill her.
And I remember he said to mebefore I had gone into the room,
like, I'm really sorry, but Ihave to do this.

(22:32):
And so it gave me thisunderstanding of like he had
obviously been very abused byhis father and was still really
terrified of his own father, forhim to be able to do what he did
to his daughter without like notwanting to do that, if that
makes sense.
But my I always describe myfather as like half evil, half
good, whereas my grandfather ispure evil.

(22:55):
And I think that like what Iknow, I went on down a really
deep family historyinvestigation to try and
understand like how he becamelike that.
Because I was like, I just don'tbelieve that people are born
like that.
I just do not and cannot believethat human beings are born in
that way.
And basically what I uncoveredwas that his father had lost his

(23:19):
parents, I believe, in theHolocaust.
And so he was quite young.
I think he was like 12 orsomething when, or like even
younger when they'd left, but hewas like left on his own, raised
by some uncles.
He became a part of theHungarian Revolution and he he
then fled the country to Hollandand then he fled from Holland to

(23:41):
Australia, and it was laterfound out that he'd fled Holland
because of he, as a 20-year-oldman, he had raped a child.
And when he got to Australia,they found him and he actually
went to an Australian prison.
My dad went into an orphanage,and then when he came out of the
orphanage, he went back into hisdad's custody.
So I'm thinking if you're going,if you're, you know, raping a

(24:03):
child that early on in life,fleeing the country, and you've
got these kids.
And so from my dad'sperspective, he was in and out
of foster care.
His mum was killed in a caraccident.
My grandfather was driving thecar.
Relatives of mine from Hollandhave said that they don't
believe that that was anaccident.
They believe that she knew somethings about him and he

(24:25):
deliberately crashed the car.
So I went down all these pathsand found out from everyone in
that family tree that he wasquite the evil man and he was
quite evil.
He was physically abusive to herfrom a young age.
So my dad then, my dad was inthe car when it would crash.
So my dad's four years old, losthis mum, gone into full-time

(24:47):
care of this evil man who I canonly assume raped him as well,
because he raped me when I wasseven.
My dad raped me when I wasolder.
Like, I just know that that'show this works.
Went into foster care, came outof foster care, went into foster
care again later when my my Upagrandfather had a gambling
addiction and lost all of hismoney and couldn't afford to
keep his kids.

(25:08):
He just popped them back into afoster care.
So my dad's like going throughabuse.
I know that he was made to eatoff the floor, he was locked in
cupboards, he was hit with thebulge, like he was really
abused.
And he left his, he left homewhen he was like 14 or something
like that, 14 or 15, and neverwent back.
And so he then had a reallytoxic, like a really in and out

(25:29):
relationship where he would havehis dad, my orpa, in his life
for a couple of years, and thenhe would cut him out and
wouldn't speak to him for yearsand have him in and cut him out.
So there was definitely, I feellike there was this part of my
dad that didn't want to be likehim.
There was this part of my dadthat knew that everything that
happened to him was not okay,and he ran away and he left home

(25:49):
and but it just caught up withhim.
And he he did become the sameand he ended up doing the same
behaviors, even, you know,things like he didn't make me
eat off the floor, but there waschildren were treated in a
different way.
And so my father would, he wenton away on a holiday and he
would give gifts to my brotherand sister and get them to open

(26:09):
them in front of me and not haveanything for me.
And like as a child, you justlike it's awful.
Like it sounds like a smallthing, but it's like that that
different treatment just makesyou think that there's something
wrong with you.
And so he was really replayingthose behaviors in different
ways.
And he always said to me, Inever wanted to be, I'm I I'm
such a better dad than my dad,and I want you to have a better

(26:31):
childhood than what I had.
And like that is technicallytrue.
It was probably like a minoramount better.

(27:18):
So in his head, he probablythought that he was doing it
better, but all those patternsand all that trauma was actually
repla like replaying.
And whether he's, you know, Iknow that he is consciously
aware of that because uh becauseI know, but yeah.
So it was like uh it gives methis understanding of like how
trauma can actually uh justhappen, even when you think that

(27:41):
it's not happening, like youthink that you're doing a better
job, but they're just they don'tit's almost like he didn't know
any different.

SPEAKER_03 (27:48):
Yeah, that makes sense.
When you when you sort of grewup and you started speaking to
your to your siblings, did theydid they have absolutely no
abuse happen to them?

SPEAKER_00 (28:00):
No, so uh they were treated differently, but they
was they were still abused.
So my sister doesn't have anymemories specifically, but she
has when she's been drunk, she'slike said things have happened
and she and then the next dayshe's kind of oh no no and kind
of tried to damage control andthings like that.

(28:20):
And she's on a bit of a journeyat the moment to try and uncover
her memories.
The memory and the memory withmy with my Upa, my grandfather,
where I was raped when I wasseven, that was actually
happened because that afternoonwe were having a sleep over
there, and that afternoon mysister had said to me, I'm
really scared of Upa coming intomy room tonight and and touching

(28:41):
me or like hurting me.
Or, you know, she'd saidsomething along the lines of
like doing something sexual.
And because it had beenhappening to me, I like, and she
was only five, she's two yearsyounger than me, and I was
seven, so I was like, fuck, sheknows what this is.
It must be happening to her.
I can't let that happen to her,being the oldest sister.
And so that night I actuallyheard him walking into her room.

(29:04):
I heard her door handle open andI heard him go in.
And I just went into this likehypnotic state, and I just like
I didn't know what I was gonnado next, but I just knew I
needed to protect her, and Ijust started screaming, oppa,
oppa, opa, opa, at like the topof like the top of my voice.
And he came into my room andhe's like, What is it?

(29:25):
And then I was just frozen and Ididn't know what to say.
And then I just remember himsaying, You st he had like an
accent, you stupid girl.
And then he closed the, closedthe door, and that was when he
raped me.
And so I know that my that hehad to have been doing that to
my sister for her to be soterrified of him going into her
room.
And later on, when I startedspeaking publicly, a cousin of

(29:45):
mine that I didn't have a lot ofcontact with when we were
younger, her mum was my dad'ssister.
So she came forward and told methat my dad actually raped her
when she was nine and that ourUpa had also been molesting and
raping her when she was a child,too.
So I know that he was doing itto her.
He was, he'd obviously done itto my sister.
And then when about six monthsafter I came forward to my

(30:06):
brother and sister and my mum,my brother came forward and
said, I have a few memories too,and I didn't really know what
they were, and I was havingflashbacks and of he's been on
medication and had depressionsince he was a teenager too, and
we never, you know, no one everknew why.
And he was like, Yeah, it's beenhappening to me too, and a lot
of things that have beenhappening in my life in all

(30:28):
different areas now start tomake sense.
He's unfortunately like had morerepressed memories come through
as the years go, and he's stillnavigating that.
Yeah, but um, it really openedup this can of worms,
essentially.

SPEAKER_03 (30:42):
Yeah.
You know, I find it reallyfascinating how like you, your
siblings, and your cousin hadgone through something similar
to different degrees anddifferent levels, but you know,
with the same perpetrator andthe same kind of sexual abuse at
around the same age and time.
And how like trauma response ormanifests so differently for all

(31:04):
of you.
I've spoken to some guests inthe past who've had it manifest
in dreams.
I've had some people who've hadit manifest in you know very
physical ways, you know,backaches and certain aches as
they've aged.
Um and so it becomes really hardto detect what is the trauma,
what is the source.
Of it, what is the cause of it?
So can you just walk me throughsort of how did it look for all

(31:25):
of all of you and manifest it?

SPEAKER_00 (31:28):
Yeah, we all definitely dissociated to
different degrees.
And yeah, you're so right.
Like the way that it manifests.
What's interesting to me is thatlike out of the four of us, all
four of us repressed it.
And it went me down this, tookme down this path of like really
learning about repressed memoryand how repressed memory works
and what it is scientificallyand getting into like Dr.

(31:49):
Jennifer Freud's work.
And I yeah, like that, thatreally like sexual trauma is
actually especially quiteintense, overwhelming sexual
trauma like child rape, is youyou really do have to dissociate
to a very, very intense level tobe able to leave to leave your
body and to fully leave thatbehind.

(32:09):
For me, it really came out inthis, like almost like a split
personality, like multiplepersonalities.
So it came out as in likeintense rage and then like and
love and light, and then intenserage and love and light, and
lots of physical symptoms, likeI said before.
Like I struggled mostly withlike headaches and migraines and
neck pain.

(32:30):
But also my sign was that Icouldn't stop.
I had like business afterbusiness, and I would have
multiple projects going at onetime.
I was always always busy.
I couldn't stop.
I spoke like a million miles anhour.
I was just stuck in fight orflight, but I was like using it
as fuel.
Whereas my brother became likefrom a really young age quite

(32:51):
quiet and reserved and didn'tspeak much.
And he withdrew and he spent alot of time alone in his room.
He was, he was like likeclinical depression.
Like he was very, very quiet,very depressed, no anger, no
rage, like everythinginternalized.
And we all did do the lickingand drying of the lips and had
the rash, which is interesting.

(33:13):
And then my sister was likemiddle child.
My sister, like I don't evenknow how it manifested with her.
She was quite quiet too, quiteeasygoing, didn't really say
much.
And then my cousin actually isreally interesting because she
as well was the eldest and it itcame up with like a lot of anger
and rage for her.
But she also developed thiscondition where she would lose,

(33:36):
she had like paralysis.
So she would be going like, Ithink it was weeks, maybe even
months, without being able towalk.
She would lose the ability touse her legs and they couldn't
figure out why.
And she'd be in hospital havingall of these tests.
And it wasn't until sheuncovered the memory of being
raped by my father when she wasnine that she was able to start
healing it because her her bodywould just give up.

(33:59):
And so she again was alwaysstruggling with like these
intense chronic healthconditions.
So it's really interestingbecause like we're both the
eldest as well.
And then the like the, you know,the like the younger ones, like
it sort of moved more towardslike they haven't really had any
health issues at all.
And it didn't really manifest asmuch physically in their body,

(34:20):
but they just withdrew andbecame more quiet or depressed.
And I sometimes think thatthat's got a lot to do with just
like your personality or likenot personality as in who you're
programmed to be, but like whoyou are meant to be, like your
soul, maybe.
But also like where you sit inthat family tree, because I
think like being the eldest,like I do have very protective

(34:42):
side, very protective instincts.

SPEAKER_03 (34:45):
Yeah.
When you when you sort of hityour 20s, is when things started
kind of flooding back to you inbits and pieces.
Can you walk me through whatwere those things that led you
to sort of come to understand?
Like, and I know you mentionedthat you were really into trauma
and you wanted to study andlearn all about trauma.
And that that knack for youbeing drawn to it kind of maybe
opened those windows a littlebit.

(35:06):
But can you just talk to me alittle bit more about how did
you start connecting thisinterest to like your own
personal life?

SPEAKER_00 (35:12):
Yeah.
I think I had been, I'd studiedlots of different modalities.
So I like I started with likesome spiritual trainings and was
trying to like understandspirituality on like a
scientific, logical levelbecause I was always like, I
knew that it worked because I'dhad healings and was like, this
has shifted something, but how?
Like, how did that work?

(35:33):
So I started studying likespiritual and then I moved more
into like subconscioushypnotherapy, NLP.
And then I moved into likeemotions and somatics and you
know, breath work and how how totap into our body and move our
body to heal trauma.
And I just kind of went throughand then I then I started
learning like memory processing,like how to actually process

(35:55):
traumatic memories and what thatlooks like and what you need to
actually kind of move a memoryfrom something that's open to
something that's closed andfiled away.
And actually, what's superinteresting is that I always say
to people, I had flashbacks allthe time, like throughout my
whole life.
I had flashbacks.
In my 20s, I would be lookingafter my kids and I'd have

(36:17):
these, these memories like popinto my mind.
But I had become so used to itthat I that I had a really,
really special way of dealingwith it where I would see this
memory and I would know that itwas a memory, but I wouldn't be
able to like consciously attacha logic to why that's happening
or like make meaning of it.

(36:39):
It would just be like, oh, don'tthink about that memory.
That's gross.
And I would blink my eyes reallyhard and I would be like, You're
disgusting for thinking aboutthat.
So I would have these flashbacksof my dad doing these disgusting
things to me or making me dothings to him.
And I would just blink my eyesand say, you're disgusting for
thinking about that.
And I knew there were memories,but I never like, and this

(37:00):
sounds so wild, but I never waslike pairing the fact that my
dad was doing that and that itwas wrong and that he is a
certain person with who my dadwas in the present moment.
So I was able to keepmaintaining a relationship with
him where I pretended thateverything was fine and that I
didn't remember anything becauseI didn't necessarily remember
it.
I saw it and I knew it wasthere, but I didn't remember it

(37:22):
in context for what it actuallywas, which is so hard to wrap
your head around.
It was hard for me to wrap myhead around.

SPEAKER_03 (37:28):
So do you mean like you kind of when you were
shutting it down, it was kind oflike a part of you saying, No,
this is this is bad, this isnaughty.
I shouldn't be having these kindof thoughts of my dad, I
shouldn't be sexualizing my dad,like that's not normal, but not
understanding that those werenot, it was not actually you
romanticizing your dad, but itwas actually you uncovering
memories.
Remembering right?

SPEAKER_00 (37:48):
Yes.
And the way that I coped withthat was that I would say that
I'm disgusting because I wouldmake it about me and not him.
And it allowed me to like to thepoint where if someone had said
to me, your dad sexually abusedyou, I'd be like, What?
Like, I love my dad.
What are you talking about?
I'd feel it in my body, I'dprobably have a panic attack
internally, but my brainlogically would be like, I don't

(38:10):
know what they're talking about.
That's just like like I had afriend who told me that she was
sexually abused by her dad, andI would became obsessed with it
for her and was thinking abouther and like just wasn't really,
couldn't like comprehend thatthat was my life and that that
had happened to me.
And so I'd done a lot of healingwork, like I'd worked on the
bullying and I'd worked on likethe molar pregnancy and the Lyme

(38:32):
disease and past relationshipsand you know, work with my mom
and some things with my stepdad,and I'd done a lot of other
trauma healing.
And after I had healed from Lymedisease, I did this meditation
one day.
And I was, at this point, I wasalready practicing healing.
I was already, you know, in Ihad started to incorporate

(38:55):
everything that I'd learnt.
And I started creating my ownway of healing where I would
process the memories usingsomatics, subconscious, and
energy work and was kind of likeblending all of those things
together.
And it was really powerful.
It started off as like literallylike I'm taking a break from
work and it's$50 a session for alittle bit of spending money to
like seeing 400 people in thefirst like year or two.

(39:18):
Like it just exploded because itwas so rapid and so powerful.
And it was just like healingpeople within one to two
sessions.
Like it was just insane.
And so I that kind of just liketook off on its own without me
having to do anything.
But in the process of that, Iwas trying to like increase my

(39:38):
healing abilities.
So I went down this little pathof like, I'm gonna become like
the most powerful healerpossible.
And I was doing these intuitionmeditations and I was listening
to this meditation, and it waslike how to increase your
intuition.
And it was like she was guidingyou along this path, and you go
through these three doors, andyou know exactly which door to
go through.
And then on the path there's aguide, and the guide is gonna

(40:00):
bring you to a message.
And I was like, okay, and I lookup and the guide is my dad, and
I'm like, that's shit.
I don't want my dad to be myguy.
I don't want like Tony Robbinsor the water or something.
Like I was like, really knew whoI wanted my guide to be.
But I was like, okay, the wholepoint of this is to trust your
intuition and to trust yourself.
So I'm seeing my dad.
Let's follow dad.

(40:21):
And as I start to follow him,the forest that's supposed to be
a beautiful forest starts togrow really dark and like all
the trees started dying and itlike goes really peach black.
And I was like, oh, and I feltthis feeling that I'd felt a
million times of like, oh, thisfeels wrong.
This feels scary.
I don't want to look at this.
And I went to pull my earphonesout, and this like voice, my

(40:42):
intuition, myself, higher self,whatever you want to call it,
was like, just just keep going.
That's the point.
Just keep going, just listen.
And so I put my earphones backin and I was like, and I
followed him to this building.
And again, this building startedto turn into like this
dilapidated, creepy factory.
And we went in and there werethree boxes.

(41:04):
And it was like your guidesshowing you which box you need
to open because there's amessage inside one of these
boxes.
And the box opened up, and theseflashbacks came out, these
memories.
And it was like this moment ofoh, why are these memories in
the box?
Because it was like, I've seenthese memories thousands of
times.
Like me in the shower with mydad, me in the bed, and there

(41:26):
was like these memoriesfloating, and it was like, why
are those memories in the box?
That's weird.
And it was the first time in mylife that I was like, oh, hold
on a second.
Why is my dad doing that to me?
That's not right.
Wait a minute.
Wait a minute, wait a minute.
Why do I have these memories?
I know that they're memories,they're not dreams, they're real
memories.
I've thought about themthousands of times.

(41:48):
Why are they happening?
And I pulled my earphones outand just literally was like, uh
what did I just like it?
It just cracked everything open.
I called my mum and was like, Ithink dad sexually abused me.
I have these memories and I'vehad them forever, but I didn't
like look at them in the rightway or something.
I was so confused.

(42:09):
I was like, is this real?
Can this happen?
What is this?
Like, surely your brain can't dothat.
Surely this isn't right.
Surely I'm wrong.
I love my dad.
My dad's great.
He's a great dad.
And then I went down this pathand I started to realize, oh,
actually, I only have fourreally good memories with my
dad, and I play them on repeat,repeat in my brain, like this
little happy, this little happymovie.
But I actually don't have anymore than that.

(42:31):
None.
And so I just started toquestion everything.
And it was the fucking worsttime of my life.

SPEAKER_04 (42:38):
Can imagine.

SPEAKER_00 (42:39):
Because it was like I had to like break this intense
trauma bond.
I had to grieve him.
I had to cut him out of my life.
I had to speak up and telleverybody what had happened,
even though I thought that I wasgonna die because I was so
conditioned to believing I wasgonna die.
It was just like grief and pain.
And at the time I was married tomy now ex-husband, who had gave

(43:00):
me zero support.
He actually told me not to speakabout it because it was too, he
didn't want it to affect him.
And so I just was like on it init alone, raising two small
kids.
My boys were like three andfive, maybe at the time, or like
two and two and four, maybe.
And I just had to navigate thislike, do I tell my family?

(43:21):
And then telling them and thencutting my dad out.
And I ended up having a completenervous breakdown to the point
where I thought I wasschizophrenic because I started
hearing his voice and havinghallucinations because I was so
convinced that he was gonna comeand kill me.
I was like, what have I done?
And yeah, I just reached thislowest of low, like fearing him,
grieving him, fearing him,grieving him, missing him,

(43:42):
wanting to run to him, beingterrified of him, and just so
confused and really brought outthese like DID and these
personalities and this splitthat I had and brought up all of
these layers.
But luckily for me, I hadalready learned everything that
I needed to know about healingand I knew exactly what to do
with it.

(44:03):
And it took me quite a fewmonths to actually kick into
action to start doing all ofthose things because I was just
paralyzed.
But I I did know what to do andI did know how to heal it, and I
did know that it was possiblebecause I'd done it with other
memories and I'd done it withother aspects of healing.
So I was like, same thing, let'sapply it, let's go.

SPEAKER_03 (44:22):
That's that's awesome that you kind of had
those little tools in your inyour basket to be able to sort
of pull out the very moment thatsomething comes up, you are
having a major panic attack inthat very moment.
You know what you need to do inthat very moment to just help
you to rebalance andrecalibrate.
Can you can you walk me throughthat process that you went
through and that healing foryourself?

SPEAKER_00 (44:41):
Yeah, it was it was a couple of years of just
honestly, once I uncovered likethe bulk of memories that were
kind of the same, I knew how toprocess them.
So some of them I processedmyself, some of them I would
process with somebody else if Ifelt like I didn't quite know
how to navigate it.

(45:03):
But I spent like I spent like alot of time just as new
flashbacks would come up,processing literally each memory
as it came up, but also lookingat what I maybe learnt about
myself in each memory.
What did I like take, you know,as to be true from whatever was
happening?
So whether it was that I wasweak or pathetic or helpless or

(45:25):
disgusting or wrong, I wouldlook at what I was thinking
about myself and feelinginternally in those memories,
and I would also shift thosesubconsciously.
So as I was going through andprocessing each of these
memories as they came up, I wasalso like literally
reprogramming my identity andwho I believed that I was as a
result of what happened.

(45:46):
And so I went from like thelowest of low self-worth, like
compared myself to every singlewoman that I came across, felt
like I was less than everybodyaround me, just had no
confidence, would couldn'tcouldn't speak publicly,
absolutely not, couldn't evenvideo myself to put it on
Instagram because I would belike, I'm so ugly, I'm

(46:07):
disgusting, and I'd pick allthese flaws and just went from
not being able to speak up,stand up for myself, like as I
started to process the memoriesand shift the subconscious
beliefs, my personality startedto change.
And I started to like create whoI wanted to be and would like
sort of bring in the opposite ofwhat I believed about myself in
those memories, and I started tobuild this like power.

(46:30):
And it was when I'd gone througha number of those, like those,
those traumas and those memoriesthat I would be hit with
something bigger and I wouldremember something that I again
had already remembered, but hadmore context to it, or I would
have the full picture.
And so I'd gone through all ofthose like molesting memories,

(46:52):
and then I was hit with thememory of my dad raping me when
I was 20, which was anotherlevel of kind of like pain and
complication and confusion andand terror and just so many more
layers to it because I was olderand I knew what was happening
and I felt like it was my faultand I shouldn't have been there.
And then I would heal that and Iwould find new things that I'd

(47:16):
believed about myself because ofthat, and I would process them
and then something else wouldcome.
And I got to the point where Iwas like, are you fucking
kidding me?
Like sometimes now when I havethe feeling, because there's a
really specific feeling now thatI know when a memory is coming.
If I have that feeling, I'mlike, nah, I'm no, I'm done.
This is enough.

(47:37):
Like I was getting to the pointwhere I get a memory and I just
be like, when will this stop?
And I got angry at my brain.
I was like, brain, why are youdoing this?
Like, just give me all thememories at once.

SPEAKER_02 (47:47):
Yeah, exactly.
So I can just do the work that Ineed to do once and for all and
get it over with.

SPEAKER_00 (47:51):
But then when I looked back, I was like, you
know what?
If I had to think given all ofthose memories in that first
meditation at once, I 100% wouldhave killed myself.
There is no way that I wouldhave survived that because some
of those later memories, Idefinitely needed a certain
level of strength to be able todeal with that.
And that is why our brain is sosmart.
It's not doing this to piss meoff, it's doing this to actually

(48:15):
protect me because it knows whenI can handle it and when I
couldn't.
And so it's actually just one ofthose really smart protective
things that your brain does.
And so now I just thank my braininstead of being angry at it.
But I literally just did it thatway.
And this is the thing that Iguess sets me apart from a lot
of people with similar trauma isthat when they get a new memory,

(48:37):
they go into like, it's nevergonna end.
This is this is fucked.
It's never gonna end.
I'm never gonna get better.
The memories are getting worse.
What's the point?
I feel worse than ever.
But the truth is, all the workthat you've actually done has
set you up to get you to thepoint where you can handle this
memory.
And once you heal it and you getpast it, the next level version

(48:57):
of yourself that you become iseven better than what you've
just experienced.
So you're not actually goingbackwards, you're still going
forwards, but it just feels somuch more intense when those
bigger memories come through.
And granted, sometimes like Ispent it was like four months
before I from remembering my dadraping me to actually processing

(49:18):
it.
And I knew what to do, but Iavoided it because I just didn't
want to do it.
And so I actually have a reallygood partner now, or my fiance
actually.
But um, he now but he actuallylike the last memory that I had
and the one before that, hestraight away within a couple of
days was like, I know that youhave this pattern of like with

(49:41):
the big ones kind of avoidingthem, but you actually know what
to do.
And last time you did it, youfelt better within two days.
So, like, go lay down, do whatyou need to do now.
And so he would get me, he wouldlike encourage me to do that.
And it is always the same withinlike two to three days, it's
gone.

SPEAKER_03 (49:57):
And and when you say gone, like once you've processed
it, like is it that that memoryjust never comes back again?
Or is it that when it it doescome back, but you just look at
it differently?

SPEAKER_00 (50:06):
Yeah, sometimes like I will remember, I rarely will
remember it.
But if I do, like as if someonetalks about it or I go to like a
place where something happened,it'll come into my mind, but
it'll be like, oh, interesting.
Like I rem, I remember, Iremember like that memory is
there, but it doesn't affect menow.
And I feel it with no emotions,no, no, no panic, no feelings,

(50:30):
no like narrative around it,around like how bad it is or
what it means, or that wasawful, or like anything like
that.
It's just like, oh yeah, thatthing happened in the past.
And then I just move on itwithin within minutes.
It's not it's not there anymore.
And I speak about it and I leavethis computer and I go make some
lunch and I don't think about itagain.
Like it's not, it's just itfeels like sometimes it didn't

(50:53):
even didn't even happen in away.
Like I remember it, but it'slike that's weird.
It's like it's not me, but it isme.

SPEAKER_03 (51:01):
Yeah.
Would you then say that traumais a process that can be
complete at some point, or doyou think it's like an ongoing
thing that you'd forever kind ofbe integrating and and working
through?

SPEAKER_00 (51:13):
It's a process that can be complete.
Absolutely.
I think like there are liketentacles.
I think like there's tentaclesof it.
And sometimes I'll find myselflike saying or doing something,
and I'm like, oh, that's alittle bit, that's a million
toxic, whatever.
And it's like, where does thatcome from?
And it's like some small littlederivative, but it gets to the
point where it's just like, oh,that's just like that's because

(51:35):
of this, but we can fix that.
That's just a little, littleminor fix.
But yeah, I think like it takeswork, especially if you've had
volumes of trauma, because likemy entire identity was like
stacked up around trauma.
Like there was no part of methat was untouched by it.
So I literally had to create anentirely new version of myself

(51:55):
based off processing all ofthose memories and in all of
those memories, making myselffeel like powerful and strong
and loved and you know, andbringing in those feelings that
I wanted.
So it does take time, but if youcommit to it and you you go into
each trauma and each memory oreach trigger or each negative
thought that you have, and youactually do find the source and

(52:19):
heal it correctly, which is thebit that people often don't get
right, which is, you know,they're doing it on one element.
Maybe they're just working on itat a subconscious level, but
they're not actually shiftingany energy or emotion or
actually processing a memory, orthey're just going to EMDR and
processing their memories, butthey still have this whole
entire identity that's builtaround the trauma and a nervous

(52:41):
system that can't cope withanything.
And so there's like, you have todo it from all of those four
pillars.
And that's why I created aroot-a- because in one session,
you process the memory, youshift the energy, you remove the
subconscious beliefs and likeyou somatically experience and
move the emotions, it completesit.

(53:02):
And that's why like people likeone session, like one mem one,
you only have to work on amemory once.
And I'm like, yes.
And they don't believe you.
And I have like a really um, areally beautiful client who's
she came to me and she had beenin psychology for like 10, 15
years from this gang rape.
She had been gang raped andshe'd been tricked into it when

(53:24):
she was 15.
And she just couldn't let it go,it was affecting every area of
her life.
And we did one healing sessionon it, and she didn't believe
me.
She left the thinking.
She was like, okay, like shejust kept saying, We'll just see
what happens.
We'll just see what happens.
And then, like, three dayslater, she messaged me and she
was like, What the fuck did youdo?
And she has been like my numberone person now.

(53:46):
She's like, she sends so manypeople with trauma to me.
She's like, it's just onesession, just go.
And I mean, one session for thatone trauma.
If you're somebody who has beenmolested and raped and abused,
like all throughout childhood,you've got a lot of memories.
So there is a volume that youneed to process and work
through.
And that's where it's kind oflike people say, How long is it

(54:08):
gonna take?
And it's like, well, how muchtrauma do you have?

SPEAKER_03 (54:10):
Yeah, I love that.
I was reading a little bit aboutabout Ruka as well earlier, and
and like the the sort of likefour different like layers um
that it kind of like taps intothat healing process.
So it really goes from that verykind of memory level all the way
down to that somatic level.
I'm your client and I walk intoyour room.
What am I gonna expect?
What is that gonna sort of looklike?

SPEAKER_00 (54:32):
Yeah.
So you either come to me withwhat you already know that
you're struggling with and youwant to work on, or if you
don't, I just normally say,like, what's the thing at the
moment, like in life right now,that you're struggling with the
most?
And and we just start there.
But what it looks like is is mekind of getting an idea of like,
if I could wave a magic wand, Ioften say this, how would you

(54:54):
what what would what wouldchange for you like within the
next two days?
If I could wave a magic wandtoday and you would have
something shifted or somethingdifferent, what would it be?
And sometimes people will say,Well, this trauma, I have
flashbacks all the time, or I'malways anxious.
And so I would ask them a seriesof questions to uncover what the
trauma is, what the limitingbeliefs are.
We spend about 10 minuteschatting and me just getting a

(55:16):
bit of an idea and like crazilywriting notes, listening to
every word that you say, kind ofmapping it all out.
And then I would get my clientto lay down and I would put them
into a theta brainwave, so intolike a hypnotic state, into to
access their subconscious.
And they spend the rest of thesession laying down with their
eyes closed.
And so a lot of what we would dowould be going back and

(55:39):
processing memories.
So going in, going back into thememories, which is the bit where
people are always like, oh,don't really want to do that,
don't want to go back there.
And so what I do often say topeople at the start of a session
is if you've been topsychologists before, you're
probably thinking that thisfirst session is going to be
like a bit of a meet and greet,get to know each other.
We're just going straight in.
Are you happy with that?

(56:00):
And they're like, oh, and ifthey're not, I'm like, we can
like waste a session or I canshow you how it works today.
And most everybody is like,okay, okay, show me how it
works.
So we dive straight in, andthat's the way that all the I
actually don't really seeclients one-on-one anymore.
Um, I uh there's just like a fewthat I see each week, but I've

(56:20):
funneled all of my clientsbecause there were thousands of
them into the six therapiststhat I've got in my online
clinic.
So I have a clinic where I'vetrained these women, they go to
them and they all work in thesame way.
I've trained them to like go getstraight in there.

SPEAKER_02 (56:33):
That's amazing.

SPEAKER_00 (56:34):
Um and then the rest of the session is spent laying
down.
So we we go through, we processmemories, we might do some, we
might do some forgiveness, someself-forgiveness.
We've got different techniquesthere to like cut energetic
cords with people, to if there'sabusive people, we sometimes
like shrink them down.
Then we have these conversationswith them, we go back into a
number of different memories.

(56:55):
And whilst the person is in thememory and they're having this
conversation or they're they'redoing what I'm guiding them sort
of to do in that memory, likeI'm quite tapped in intuitively
to know where to take it.
But also, whilst they're havingthose those conversations, I'm
also writing down anything thatthey're saying because they

(57:16):
might be saying, You made mefeel like a piece of shit.
You made me feel completelyworthless, you made me feel
whatever it is, becauseeverything is done out loud
because somatics words are veryimportant that we say them out
loud, not just think them.
And so I'm writing them down andthey're their subconscious
beliefs that I'm gonna beshifting as well, because that's

(57:37):
what they decided in thatmoment.
That's why they're saying it.
So then I'm gonna go back at theend of the session and I'm gonna
shift those subconscious beliefsand I'm gonna replace them with
some more powerful uplifting,whatever the opposite is of
those beliefs.
Again, we're doing that at theend of the session.
We're bringing in all thepositives and we're doing some
like visualizations, somedifferent things there for them

(57:58):
to like really feel like thatnew version of themselves.
As well throughout the memories,we're also regulating.
So there's different things thatI will get my clients to do,
like in the middle of a memoryor at the end of a memory, for
them to be able to regulate andbring their nervous system back
down, and for the body to knowthat that has shifted, for the
like the body to know that thememory is complete, because we

(58:20):
have to bring them in together.
So there's certain steps that Iwould get them to take
throughout that memoryprocessing for the body to know.
And then we're finishing reallyuplifting with like repeating
out some of those likesubconscious beliefs.
Everyone opens their eyes andfeels a combination of tired and
lighter.

SPEAKER_02 (58:38):
That's awesome.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (58:39):
And then we give it a few days for the brain to like
catch up with what we've justdone because it's quite instant
and rapid.
And you know, we give the braintime to kind of recalibrate.
And within that first like twodays to two weeks, people say, I
think different, I speakdifferent, I even look
different.
Some people have said, like,I've gone out with some friends,
and everyone tells me that Ilook different, and we start to,

(59:02):
we start to shift like fromthere.
So it sounds intense and scaryfor some people, but it's like
one of those things that thehour and a half does go quite
fast because you'll most of ityou are laying down with your
eyes closed.
And it's one of those thingsthat it's like scary to go into
it, but you always, and I dothis too afterwards.
I'm like, oh, I'm so glad I didthat.

SPEAKER_03 (59:23):
Right.
It's almost like a form ofself-care in a in a sense,
right?
Like absolutely I feel that waywhen I do a workout, I come back
and I'm like, oh, I feel so goodabout that, even though like I
was dreading it beforehand.

SPEAKER_00 (59:33):
Yeah, it's exactly the same.
And once you're in it, you'renot kind of like, oh, I want to
go home.
I don't want to do this.
Once you're in it, you're you'rein it.
Like you're you're deep in it.
And when you're in yoursubconscious and you're in that
theta brainwave, you're justkind of like, time doesn't
really, you don't really noticetime.
Some people open their eyes andlike, was that already time?
Like that went fast.

(59:53):
But because it's just you'reyou're doing the work, right?
Same as the workout.

SPEAKER_03 (59:58):
Yeah.
Can you tell me a little bitabout an instance or you know, a
sp specific moment when you werekind of doing this healing on
someone where you kind ofwitnessed transformation or you
witnessed this kind of personsort of letting it go, or if not
during the session, afterwards,have come back to you with like,
you know, some, you know, someshifts and changes that they've

(01:00:18):
they've told you about.

SPEAKER_00 (01:00:19):
I have hundreds.
I think I have two fullhighlight reels on Instagram of
screenshots from people, likehundreds of people that are
like, my partner can't believehow different I am.
Like that I'm communicatingdifferently, relationships
completely turned around, likepeople owning their triggers and
working on their triggers, theirrelationships just blossom.

(01:00:39):
I've had people who physicallylook different, people who have
like had a session and made acomplete career drain career
change and moved into a careerthat they've always thought
about but never like had theguts to kind of pursue.
They message and they're like,guess what I just did?
People that are like thatphysically like look like I've

(01:00:59):
had people come in and lookquite quite like black under the
eyes and tired and just, youknow, just like not lifeless,
but like not well.
And then they sit up and theyspeak to me at the end, and I'm
like, you look different.
You physically look different.
And they go and look in themirror and they're like, whoa.

(01:01:20):
Like it.
It it just that one I just can'texplain how rapid that is, but
the messages are always just I'mI'm not thinking those thoughts
anymore.
Oh, I haven't had a singleflashback.
I can't believe it.
And I remember one of myfavorite ones was she was like,
I used to always read yourtestimonials and they would be

(01:01:40):
like, Oh, this is life-changing,it's life changing.
And I'd be like, Oh, how cliche,cliche, like life-changing.
And she's like, it literallychanged my life.
I get it now.
And I think it for me as well,like it's, you know, I know that
it I've gone from walking into aroom and feeling like the
smallest person to feeling likean equal.

(01:02:03):
And I've, you know, walked intogone from being in a
relationship feeling like I'm solucky that they chose me and
that, you know, I don't deservethem to again feeling like an
equal, but also having someonethat that loves me and builds me
up and supports me and, youknow, wants the best for me.
And I couldn't have imaginedthat in a relationship.

(01:02:24):
I couldn't even visualize thatuntil I'd done a certain level
of healing work to be able todesire it, then accept it and
find it.
And I think like the way that Iview myself when I look in the
mirror is completely different.
I don't wake up and go straightto the scales or look in the
mirror and start looking atflaws.
I just, I don't even look in themirror half the time.

(01:02:46):
I'm just kind of like, you know,like the what you do, your daily
habits, like people um doingthis, like, you know, mindset
coaching and they're doing likethese programs and they're
trying to like shift thesepatterns.
They're like, oh, I've got thispattern of like, I'm like binge
eating, or I'm got this patternof like self-sabotage, or I
can't follow through withthings.

(01:03:07):
And they're trying to like usesheer force to change these
negative thought patterns or lowself-confidence, whatever it is.
And if you find the root and youheal it, it just the pattern
just disappears naturally.
You don't have to do it withforce.
You just you find where it comesfrom and it and it disappears.
So I think that's one of themost powerful things is that

(01:03:29):
like everything that you programinto your mind starts to become
your reality.

SPEAKER_03 (01:03:35):
I love that.
I love that.
This this is really reminding meof some of the some of the
episodes that I've done.
It really does sound like acombination of all these
different kinds of modalitiesbecause you know, it there is a
little bit of NLP here, youknow, like there's there's a
little bit of that rewiring ofyour physical brain.
And then there is the otherpart, which is that spiritual
and energetic part, which isequally as vital.

(01:03:55):
I'm reading this book, The BodyThat Keeps the Score.
And it he even talks about inthat book that, you know, that
he reached a certainbreakthrough with his clients
where he would talk about it, hewould unravel the trauma of
these like war veterans, andonce they'd start going and
they'd start talking, he'dbasically open that can of
worms, but then the healing wasnot happening, there was no

(01:04:15):
shift happening because theydidn't know how to sort of let
it go.
It's it doesn't just stop at onemodality.

SPEAKER_00 (01:04:21):
Yeah, yeah.
And the body keeps the score,Bessel Vanderkock.
I actually have done trainingwith him, and no, I I've read
that book three times because hereferences father-daughter
sexual abuse specifically a lotin that book.
So I went and did training withhim and uh learned a lot about
about the brain and about thelinks between the brain and the
body and things, and yeah, he'sit's it's such a fascinating

(01:04:43):
book.

SPEAKER_03 (01:04:44):
Jessica, how can our listeners find you?
How can they, you know, accessyour your your healing and your
your work?

SPEAKER_00 (01:04:52):
Yeah, I the best way is always probably social media.
I am on I am Jessica Allah.
Um, but as well, websitejessicallah.com.au.
That's where you can find likeinformation about the
certification.
There's the one-on-one therapyin there to find like a trauma
therapist to work with.
I'm always happy with people aswell if they come to me with
like what their trauma is, so Ican direct them to which of

(01:05:14):
those six therapists is thebest.
I'm always happy to like kind ofguide people.
Um, I do open up spots very,very rarely to my email list.
So anyone who's on the emaillist can snatch up a spot.
Um, but it's probably like onceevery couple of months.
And then yeah, like the everyeverything else is on there.
Trigger to Thriving is theprogram that I've created, which

(01:05:34):
is kind of literally what itsounds like, Trigger to
Thriving.
It's all the stages that I wentthrough, like all of the
different, you know, moving fromtraumatized to like getting a
bit more power to then likebeing afraid to be seen and
going through all of thosedifferent layers of self.
So everything is on there onthose across those two
pathologies.

SPEAKER_03 (01:05:53):
I love that.
Thanks so much, Jessica, forsharing your story and and and
all of the healing that you'vedone.
And I feel like there's so muchour listeners are gonna be able
to take away from this.
So I really, really appreciateyou doing this with me.

SPEAKER_00 (01:06:04):
Thank you.
Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_01 (01:06:09):
If you enjoyed the episode and would like to help
support the show, please followand subscribe.
You can rate and review yourfeedback on any of our platforms
listed in the description.
I'd like to recognize our guestswho are vulnerable and open to
share their life experienceswith us.
Thank you for showing us we'rehuman.
Also, a thank you to our teamwho worked so hard behind the

(01:06:29):
scenes to make it happen.

SPEAKER_00 (01:06:31):
Stefan Menzel.

SPEAKER_01 (01:06:32):
Lucas Piri.
The show would be nothingwithout you.
I'm Jenica, host and writer ofthe show, and you're listening
to Multispective.

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