October 25, 2025 • 44 mins
Antwan Frazier opens up in this raw, emotional interview about the truth he buried for years. As a child, he was molested by his uncle, a trauma that resurfaced through haunting dreams. At 21, Antwan confronted his abuser in a moment of rage that changed his life forever. Through mandatory counseling and deep self-work, he uncovered disturbing truths, but also the power to heal.
Today, Antwan stands as a voice of healing, hope, and resilience, helping others who carry hidden trauma of their own.
You can find his work on: https://thefrazierbrand.com/
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Producer & Host: Jennica Sadhwani
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_02 (00:04):
Every six months we're in a new school.
Mother always put men above thekids.
So men were more important thanour own warfare.
There were family members whowanted him arrested, other
family members, and they wereprotecting him.
And I can remember walking in upin the middle of the night
because someone was pulling mypants down.
And it's just like I rememberjust closing my eyes real tight,
(00:28):
just thinking it was a baddream.
You know, if someone picks onyou, you gotta fight.
Someone calls you a name, yougotta fight.
I know I like females, so why amI having these weird dreams?
This man made me give him ablowjob.
And then told me, like, youpassed out.
I have never passed out before.
So that was kind of my wake-upcall.
Everybody goes through trauma,but don't let it define who you
(00:51):
are.
I was born in uh Santa Ana,California, raised um all over.
My mom, she how do I say this?
Every six months she wanted tomove.
So I was like, it was kind ofdifficult because moving for me,
(01:12):
you know, me and my siblings wasdifficult because every six
months we're in a new school, orevery year we're in a a
different school.
Home life wasn't good.
Uh mom was an alcoholic, she gotinto drugs.
Um that point we were sent to golive with our
great-grandparents, and thenthat's when things kinda got out
(01:36):
of control where uh me and mybrother and my sister, we were
molested by a great uncle.
And then that kind of just fromthere just I became that rebel,
that rebel kid, just doingeverything bad.
I played a role that the familygave me.
So if I was a bad seed, I playedthe bad seed too, the best way I
(01:58):
could.
You know, getting in trouble atschool, getting suspended.
I didn't know until I was sayingin high school, because I kept
having these weird dreams infoster home group home.
And during that time they sentme to a therapist who kind of
unraveled everything for me,like you were molested, that's
why you're having these types ofdreams.
(02:19):
So it it just and I kind offigured like this great uncle, I
didn't like being around him.
I just didn't know why then it'sgonna come to find out that's
what it was.
SPEAKER_01 (02:29):
You mentioned that your mom was moving around a lot
and you were all it's a familymoving together with her, and
obviously that kind of creates avery unstable childhood.
And every time you started toget kind of comfortable in your
space, you guys were up and out.
Was the reason for movingbecause of relationships that
she was getting into, or becauseher work was requiring her to
move, or was it just a personalchoice of hers?
SPEAKER_02 (02:51):
I would say it was a different relationship.
Our mother always put men abovethe kids, so men were more
important than our own welfare.
I can't even tell you how manytimes I was told to call someone
stepdad, or how many times menwere coming in and out the
house.
So it was just like very, youknow, very it wasn't stable, but
(03:12):
at the same time, it was kind ofno that's what I knew.
SPEAKER_01 (03:15):
Well, what about your birth dad?
SPEAKER_02 (03:17):
I have never met him.
There's stories that go aroundthat the day I was born, he was
at the hospital, he helped me,then left.
And then by the time I was 22years old, then he finally wrote
me a letter explainingeverything.
So his his explanation was himand him and my mom didn't get
along.
I wrote him back saying itdidn't matter if you guys didn't
get along.
You and her getting along hasnothing to do with you being my
(03:39):
father.
And then that I wrote him backand that was it.
I told him, I'm good, I'm 22years old.
At the time I was angry, so Itold him, What can you teach me
now?
He just he never wrote back.
SPEAKER_01 (03:50):
I wonder what that sort of did to you and your
siblings for in terms of thatfeeling of being wanted.
You know, I think I think one ofthe most important things for a
child is to feel wanted by theirparents.
When you don't have that fromyour parents at a time when you
need someone the most and you'rebeing neglected time and time
again, what kind of did that dofor you and your siblings?
(04:10):
Did you three bond as assiblings and did you kind of
kind of find that in each other,or were you were you also pretty
isolated from your siblings?
SPEAKER_02 (04:19):
Well, we got along pretty good.
My other two siblings, they havethe same dad, so their dad was
constantly in their life, andthen he would be there for me.
So my last name is actually hislast name.
So that's how they kind ofincluded me in everything.
I didn't know at the time.
For all the way until I was 18,it was kind of a cycle of lies.
So when I became 18, graduatedhigh school, joined the army, I
(04:42):
had to go get my birthcertificate.
That's how I found out who myreal dad was.
So it was one of those thingsthat my mom should have told me,
you chose not to tell me.
And then, like, we have this,well, we have a non-existent
relationship right now becauseit's like I can't have someone
in my life that's gonnaconstantly lie.
I have my own kids, I can't haveyou be around my kids if you
(05:03):
can't be honest with me.
It's like you have, you know,like I told my mom, you have
never been honest with me.
But my siblings, they they'vehad that relationship with their
dad, and I had that relationshipwith my stepdad, but it was
different.
And you tell, you tell it wasdifferent.
I knew something was differentabout us three because I came
out a little bit darker.
They have the same complexion.
There is something not rightthere, but as a kid, you don't
(05:26):
question it.
Someone tells you something,just go with what the adult
says.
SPEAKER_01 (05:30):
It's like you spent 18 years of your life kind of
questioning it, and you know,you you're listening, you have
moments where your gut istelling you something else, but
then at the same time, you'rebeing told on the outside that
no, this is like better not toask questions.
I can imagine that being reallydifficult for you.
SPEAKER_02 (05:44):
Yeah, it was it was uh a shock.
I would say the minute I joinedthe military was that minute
that I just kind of disappeared.
I think it was a good, I don'tknow, three or four years that I
didn't talk to anybody in thefamily.
I just needed that myself time.
It's kind of like off the grid.
Nobody knew anything until Icalled.
And in my mind, it's like youcan say you love someone, and
(06:04):
you know, for 18 years I waslied to, and then this is what
you're showing me love is, andthen I get into foster care,
foster home, I see love as adifferent thing.
So it's like, do I want thattoxic love or do I want someone
to be genuine, real with me?
SPEAKER_01 (06:17):
Now, you talked about like your mom then
eventually sending you off toyour grandparents.
Was there any reason for this?
SPEAKER_02 (06:24):
She had no choice.
She had got uh arrested for drugpossession.
So we wanted to live with ourgreat-grandparents.
No, I I can honestly say thatthat was a good portion of my
life because it was stabilityand it was structured.
Like my great-grandpa Saturdaymorning, six o'clock, wake me
and my brother up.
Let's go.
He would take us to work withthem.
(06:45):
So it kind of got you know, thatkind of started developing the
work ethnic and stuff in me, thediscipline.
So that was a good time in mylife, and then you know, my
great-grandma would just, youknow, she would cook for us, and
then um, you know, during sometime we'll all sit down and then
they'll just pour words ofwisdom into us.
SPEAKER_01 (07:07):
Do you feel like that's the thing that kind of
set that foundation a little bitfor you to sort of even overcome
and go through that healingprocess, like those kind of, you
know, little lessons that youwere being injected with at the
time?
SPEAKER_02 (07:18):
Yes, it does, because even to this day I still
think about those lessons.
Um, I tell my kids thoselessons.
SPEAKER_01 (07:24):
How old were you when you were when the three of
you were sent?
SPEAKER_02 (07:27):
I was in either the second or third grade.
SPEAKER_01 (07:30):
Okay, so fairly young.
How does your grandfather uhyour great-granduncle sort of
fit into this picture?
Did he was he living with themat the time?
SPEAKER_02 (07:38):
Yes, he was.
So my great uncle is mygreat-grandmother's brother.
So he had his own room in thehouse, so he stayed with them.
And at the time he wasn'tworking or doing no, at the at
the time he wasn't working.
He was a retired uh Vietnamveteran.
He had got a shell shock, wasinjured, so he had a hundred
(08:02):
percent disability.
He would travel from OrangeCounty, California to LA County,
LA County, and then he would goto other states too.
So we would see him for a weekand then probably won't see him
again for the next month.
But it's just that's just histhat was his thing.
But come to find out there'sthere's more to why he did what
he did.
Like why you only seen himcertain times.
(08:24):
What was that?
I was 21 when I confronted him,and I threw him down the flights
of stairs, I got a shovel, and Ihit him with it about three or
four times.
Got arrested, went to trial,three-year trial, and to come to
find out, like the reason he wasgone for like weeks at a time
(08:44):
because he wasn't just doing itto us.
He was wanted in LA County, hewas wanting in the state of
Oklahoma for doing the exactsame thing.
SPEAKER_01 (08:52):
And his target was always little kids.
SPEAKER_02 (08:55):
Yes, and it was always kids in the family.
Well, I don't want to say he wassmart enough, but he was he had
enough sense to know not to messwith kids from a different like
I don't know.
SPEAKER_01 (09:03):
So they were always like his siblings, children or
you know, cousins' children's.
Did he have children of his own?
SPEAKER_02 (09:11):
No, he didn't.
No children, he was nevermarried.
SPEAKER_01 (09:14):
Do you think that this was sort of something that
developed post military,post-war, post, you know, like a
a sign of like PTSD or orsomething?
Or is it something that healways had in him?
SPEAKER_02 (09:26):
I can't really say because I I don't know how he
was before the war.
And when we asked mygreat-grandma before she passed,
she would never say nothing.
So I don't know if she knew andshe didn't say nothing, or she
doesn't want to remember herbrother in that light.
SPEAKER_01 (09:40):
And the fact that he was a wanted person means that
there were a lot of otherpeople, family members who had
actually reported him.
Why why did he never really getcaught?
SPEAKER_02 (09:51):
The reason you said because there were other family
members that were willing tohide him.
At one point, he did go for likea month and a half and flew out
to other family members that wewe knew out in Arkansas.
And so there were family memberswho wanted him arrested, but
then there's at the same time asother family members who's who
thought us kids was making it upand they were protecting him.
(10:12):
So that's why he went on forlike, I think if I remember
correctly, my paperwork said isthey could go back at almost 10
years.
But I think it's I think it'sway longer than 10 years because
I was 22 when I confronted him.
And at the time I was living atthe house, it was like seven, so
that's that's at least 15 years.
But the state only, state ofCalifornia only went back 10
(10:33):
years.
SPEAKER_01 (10:33):
You mentioned that this was also going on with your
with your siblings, so this wassomething that was kind of like
happening at home um with all ofyou.
And was it ever something thatthe three of you ever discussed
about or kind of knew about?
SPEAKER_02 (10:44):
No, we didn't discuss until uh later on as we
got older, and then I was theone who brought it up, and then
once I brought it up, my brotherand sister kind of had similar
incidents, and then we startedtalking to other cousins, and
like someone were saying theyjust didn't feel right around
him, other aunts and uncles.
I think they knew because theywouldn't let their kids around
him.
(11:04):
Like, why do you not let yourkids around someone if you don't
know what's going on?
Your mother said that somethinghad happened with her and him.
Like, when did he do it to you?
Before the war or after he gothome?
SPEAKER_01 (11:16):
Yeah, that sort of put things into a certain
timeline.
If he was kind of doing thiswith your mother as well when
she was younger, then it'd beengoing on for a really, really
long time.
Can you tell me a little bitmore about like sort of the
extent of how he was going aboutit and what he was doing?
I mean, I know that you and yoursiblings all were living under
the same roof at this time, andhe managed to do it sort of
secretly in a way that none ofyou were aware of each other
(11:40):
situation.
Can you just like if you canremember or recall, like how how
was he going about this sort oflike at the time?
SPEAKER_02 (12:30):
So he would do things innocently, like, and he
would do it around other peoplewhere nobody else caught on.
Like, okay, so one time uh wehad to go to a banquet, and I
was sitting next to him, I gottired, and everybody's at the
table, it was a round table, andhe just grabbed my head and just
like, oh, you lay down and thenput my head like right in his
(12:54):
crotch area.
I was like, that was souncomfortable, I just put my
head back up.
And then there was another timewhere you know my we had get my
great-grandparents had guestsover at the house.
They had to sleep in our room.
And at this time, my brother wasliving, my other grandma had
took my brother in, so he wasliving in in Oakland,
California.
So I was there, and my grandmasaid, Go go sleep with your
(13:16):
uncle.
And so I went in there, and Icould remember walking in up in
the middle of the night becausesomeone was pulling my pants
down.
And it's just like I rememberjust closing my eyes real tight,
just thinking it was a baddream.
And it's funny because talkingabout it now, it's like I knew
something happened that night,and I I had said something to my
my great-grandma, and she hadasked him about it, and he's
(13:37):
like, no, no, he was probablydreaming.
I I wouldn't do that.
So it made me think that Iimagine it or was it real?
SPEAKER_01 (13:44):
You're kind of being gas-lit into thinking that you
nothing actually happened.
And so you're questioningyourself, you're questioning the
whole situation around you.
You know, the the adults arekind of you're always told that,
you know, adults are the are theones, they're right, they're
older, they're wiser, you haveto listen to them.
And and so when you're beingtold this, you're kind of like
fighting against your own gut,and you're also doing it all
(14:07):
alone, and it's your word versusyour great-granduncle.
Do you do you recall all of it,or did you at some point sort of
bury those memories and try tojust push it away?
How were you managing?
How were you dealing with it?
SPEAKER_02 (14:19):
So once I got to the group home and I got got into
therapy, that's the therapisttold me that I have blocked so
much of it out, and then likegoing to therapy, they they
started bringing it up and itjust awoken something inside of
me.
Because I started then I startedreally going in a dark area too.
Before that, I was I was doingfine, managing school, getting
(14:39):
good grades, and all that.
Then I just started going tothat dark area because I I start
everything just starts to comecome back.
SPEAKER_01 (14:47):
And you mentioned that like before before you were
even sent to that group home,you started rebelling a lot.
What did that look like?
SPEAKER_02 (14:53):
If I got grounded or something and I wasn't supposed
to do something, I would just doit anyway.
My grandparents were old school,so it's like there's a lot of
old school values like can'thave a girl over the house.
At an early age, I was intogirls, like second grade, I was
already into girls, so it's likekissing girls and all that
stuff.
So it's just like, again, Ididn't know why that was.
(15:14):
Later on, I found out because ofwhat I went through.
So my body wanted something thatI didn't know it wanted.
SPEAKER_01 (15:19):
When you're when you're being told for so long to
suppress emotions, boys don'tcry, that the way of dealing
with pain for for young foryoung guys growing up is often
to kind of turn to violence, toturn to aggression, to turn to
drugs, to be angry instead offeel the emotion.
Would you agree that that sortof was the situation for you as
(15:40):
well?
SPEAKER_02 (15:41):
Yes, because my great-grandparents grew up and
they were part of the civilrights movement.
Oh, that that era.
My great-grandfather was youhave to be tough.
No, beginning the fight, don'tcome home if you lose.
That kind that's what it wastold to me and my brother.
So it was just, you know, ifsomeone picks on you, you gotta
fight.
Someone calls you a name, yougotta fight.
(16:02):
That's that's what I learned.
That's the era I grew up in.
Like it was that kind of toughlove.
It's what they were taught fromtheir parents.
My grandparents tell us mymother got um locked up for
drugs.
The first thing they say is,like, she had no business doing
drugs.
If she can't, she went in, cameout, got caught for stealing.
(16:23):
She had no business stealing.
She's gonna do her time.
We're not bailing her out, we'renot getting her a lawyer.
She did the crime, she's gonnado the time.
I think that's a goodphilosophy.
If you do the crime, you gottado the time.
SPEAKER_01 (16:34):
That's a really interesting sort of like irony
in a sense, because yourgreat-grandfathers, on the one
hand, is encouraging you tofight, fight your case, but at
the same time, it's like, well,if you get caught, if you get in
trouble, well, then you're gonnahave to do your time and no
one's gonna bail you out.
And let's just add on to thefact that you've gone through
something so tragic and you'reyou've got this anger inside of
(16:56):
you.
You're already angry abouteverything, you haven't had an
outlet to get it out.
And now you are in this kind ofsituation where you're almost
encouraged to get into a fight.
Did you ever find yourselfgetting mixed up with the police
at any point?
SPEAKER_02 (17:10):
Not until like after 18.
From the time I was uhelementary until I graduated,
no.
No, I never had any encounter.
You know, yeah, I was a rebel, Idid all this stuff, like no
juvie, no nothing.
I I I thank God for that.
SPEAKER_01 (17:24):
And you mentioned that you did join the military
at the age of 18, right?
SPEAKER_02 (17:28):
Yes.
Yes, I did.
SPEAKER_01 (17:30):
So so you're you're kind of in this position where
you're still you still haven'treally figured out what really
is going on.
You're having these dreams,which I do want to talk a little
bit more about, but you'vejoined the military and at the
same time you're also you knowengaging in violence.
SPEAKER_02 (17:47):
Yes, I think um, so I was still in the military in
1999.
So in 1999, this is when theincident happened with my great
uncle, and then from 1999 allthe way to 2002 is when um me
going to trial, fighting thecase, and just something
happened during those threeyears where everything just
turned around for me.
(18:07):
It was the support to uh themilitary, the support of other
people, and there are people ifI fall, they're there to lift me
up.
And that's kind of what set meon that right path.
Even after 2002, I wasn't fullyhealed, and that took me down,
you know, drinking and you know,womanizing.
That was my next phase where Ijust did a lot of self-sabotage
(18:28):
in any good relationship I wasin because I didn't feel like I
deserved to be in a goodrelationship.
No, I didn't I was broken, Icouldn't be fixed.
SPEAKER_01 (18:36):
What was this incident that happened with your
grandfather that kind of saidled to this court case?
I know you mentioned that youkind of confronted your
grandfather.
What actually happened?
SPEAKER_02 (18:44):
My sister had called me and told me that our great
uncle had tried to go in thebathroom with my little niece.
Um the next day, you know, aboutsix in the morning, I went to
his house.
He came out the back door, andhe looked me in the eye, I
looked him in the eye, and hesaid, What are you doing here?
And I said, I looked himstraight in the eye, I said, I
know what you did to me.
(19:05):
The next thing he said is, Idon't want no trouble.
So to me, that was an omission.
I don't want no trouble.
Everything was just so built upinside of me at that point,
like, okay, I know you did it tome.
There's no way you're gonna doit to my little niece.
He put his hand on my shoulder,and then next thing I know, I
just grabbed him, threw him downsome stairs, walked to the rest
(19:28):
of the backyard, got a shovel,and hit him about three or four
times with a shovel.
And left.
And to tell you the truth, theonly re the only reason I could
recount this to you because Ihad to I literally had to read
my the uh court paperworkbecause if I don't report I
(19:49):
don't remember what happened.
And I remember the day I gotarrested, the cops told me you
had uh you had something theycall blind rage.
I don't I remember being there,but I don't remember what
happened after that.
I remember leaving.
But yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (20:05):
Until today, you you're not speaking out of
memory, you're speaking fromfrom the paper, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (20:11):
Because I can't, you know, and that's his rec
recollection of it.
Like he tells the story, like,yeah, we had that conversation,
and he threw me, and then hesorry, you know, in his
regulation, I started beatinghim with the the shovel.
And so after that happened, Ileft and he started screaming.
My great-grandma came out, hetold her what happened.
(20:33):
They called 911, called theambulance.
Um, and this is where everythingtakes uh a turn.
So when the ambulance getsthere, the ambulance asks him,
uh, Sir, do you want to go tothe hospital?
Do you want to get checked out?
He says, No.
So it gets me off the case formurder or mass slaughter or
(20:57):
anything.
Two weeks after this incident,he goes into the hospital with
back surgeon.
He dies on the operating tableif he catches pneumonia, and
then that's the only reason Igot charged because he wouldn't
have back problems if I didn'thit him with the shovel.
Then my lawyer said, Well, herefused the medical treatment.
Now, if he would have acceptedit, you can make a case.
(21:20):
But one thing I do recall isthat I was calmed up.
I know when I left, I know evenwhen I got arrested, my great
grandma's orders came back tome.
You do the crime, you do thetime.
So I I had confessed, and we getto the courthouse, they talk to
the officer who arrested me, andhe said he never made a
confession.
So it was just like one of thosethings, even though I could I
(21:41):
did confess to the officer, hejust because you know he asked
me what happened, why did I doit?
And I told him, he's like, no.
When they charged me, theycharged me with a special charge
covered called uh corporalpunishment because I was still
in the military at the time.
So it's like he's trained to dothat.
So I had a special charge on mejust for being in the military.
(22:02):
When I got arrested, I wasn'tscared.
I think I was more at peace.
And what it was more peacebecause I knew he was dead, no
other kids were gonna lose theirinnocence.
And at that time, I was I waswilling to do the time.
And my lawyer said, No, we wehave a good case.
You have mentioned this before.
This there's a timeline andnobody believed you.
So he said, We're gonna we'regonna fight this, and that's
(22:25):
kind of what happened.
SPEAKER_01 (22:26):
Yeah, I don't think I've ever heard of a case or a
situation where someone hasactually hurt someone.
Yeah, like the courts have kindof taken his side given
everything, given thecircumstances, given, you know,
like the the whole the whole waythis manifested was in a way
that kind of cleared you.
And there was no and the factthat there was no charge for
(22:46):
attempted murder or any of that,but in a way I'm so glad that it
kind of worked out in your favorbecause yes, what you did would
by by law be considered an actof assault.
But at the same time withreason.
And I think it's kind of one ofthe situations where the police
understood your situation, thelawyers understood your
situation, and everyone sort ofcame together for almost like
(23:09):
for something bigger than justthat particular situation
itself.
SPEAKER_02 (23:14):
Yeah, and I remember like so what they did charge me
with was uh elderly abusebecause he was uh over the age
of 70, so I got charged withelderly abuse.
And um when I got sentenced,they gave me three years
probation, that was it.
And I I I still remember to thisday that the judge looked at me
and he's like, you know, he kindof gave me a warning.
(23:35):
He's like, I don't want to eversee you here again.
And he's like, Mr.
Frazier, please, no morevigilante stuff.
Let the cops do their job.
So and the funny thing is thathappened, so that was 2002.
We're in 2025.
Me and that judge still keeps incontact with each other.
SPEAKER_01 (23:52):
Even you like listening to that, like hearing
that, kind of getting a certainvalidation, getting a sense of
kind of like, okay, like theyhear me, they they hear me.
Like I'm I'm feeling heard andvalidated at this point.
SPEAKER_02 (24:04):
Yeah, it felt uh felt refreshing.
Even on the district attorneyside, the the one who was
prosecuting me, we had a privateconversation, and she even told
me, she's like, You have neverchanged your story.
You have told the same story forthree years.
And she's like, I feel so badthat we had to prosecute you.
We wasted money.
(24:25):
It wasn't me, it's my boss.
Even you know, the whole officeis like what what person keeps
the same story for three years?
You usually find holes in it.
She's like, she was she was sadthat they for three years, like
we kept going through this,getting continuation, postponing
it, and she's like, You neverchanged your story.
You stuck to your guns when wetalked to other people,
(24:49):
everybody's story starting tosound different now.
Like, and she they starting tonotice that that people were
covering up for him, so otherpeople knew what he was doing.
And I love what the judge said,but I also love what the
district attorney said becauseshe saw, like, you never change,
you stood on your sameprinciples from the beginning.
Your story never changed forthree years.
SPEAKER_01 (25:08):
That's actually really, really useful for anyone
that's kind of gone through anykind of you know abuse or sexual
trauma or anything as such wherethey're you know required to go
to court.
Being being consistent with yourstory makes you more believable
in a sense, right?
Like it kind of validates whatyou're what you're uh what
(26:05):
you're really there fightingfor.
If you're consistently changing,which I understand it does
happen as well.
With with time, people kind oflose bits and pieces of the
story or remember other bits andpieces of the story.
But what that does is that kindof it makes you um sound very
you know flip-floppy and it andthen it kind of doesn't hold up
in court as as well.
(26:27):
I know you mentioned that foryou your bits and pieces of your
kind of memory were coming tolight later on in your life.
So you're also probablyrealizing, recognizing, learning
little bits of like whatactually happened to you at the
time, but still maintaining thatconsistency in court.
SPEAKER_02 (26:43):
Yes.
Um so I guess we'll get intothat the the dream part.
SPEAKER_01 (26:48):
Um tell me about that.
SPEAKER_02 (26:51):
Yeah, it's just like again, like I said, like I'm one
of those people, like, and I Iit was something I had to tell
myself too.
Like I know I like females, sowhy am I having these weird
dreams?
The therapy and everythingcoming, it's just like the
memories were coming out, likelike this man made me give him a
blowjob.
Like I was having dreams aboutthat.
(27:12):
Like, why was I having dreamsabout that?
And then it's like, oh, it'sjust like it it it made sense,
but then it didn't make sense tome in a way that I've always
trusted females more than I domales, even to this day.
And I couldn't understand that,but then it goes back all the
way to that trauma.
It's the whole judgmental thing.
(27:33):
Like in just certain situations,I just don't feel comfortable
around certain people.
If I hear something aboutsomeone, you know, being
traumatized or went through whatI went through, like sorry, I
don't care if you did that 10 or15 years ago to someone, we just
can't be friends.
I know we all deserve a secondchance, and I think that's
(27:53):
that's a prejudice and bias Ihave to work on.
But you know, from myexperience, it it shows like
when someone does something likethat, molest or abuse or rape,
it's kind of a thing, like it'snot a one-time thing.
So it's like it's not somethingthey're gonna stop.
So it's just like I just chooseto like remove myself from that
(28:15):
situation.
SPEAKER_01 (28:16):
So when these dreams were coming to you, were you
kind of were this was during thetime you were going to therapy,
or did this kind of like be wasthis the start of you seeking
therapy?
SPEAKER_02 (28:26):
I started having these dreams when I was probably
fifth or sixth grade and Ididn't understand them.
These are like dreams like Ididn't understand them, why am I
dreaming about other guys?
I'm not like that.
So it kind of it kind of freakedme out because like it happened
(28:48):
to my brother, and then mybrother became gay.
So it was like, and I'm like,no, I'm not like that.
Then when it happened to mysister, she became bisexual.
So it's just like this is notnormal.
So it's just like, no, I know Ilike girls, why am I having
these dreams by guys?
Why am I wondering things orstuff just popping in my head?
(29:08):
Because I'm not watching gayporn or nothing, so I don't know
why these images were popping inmy head.
SPEAKER_01 (29:12):
So it's like this part of you that kind of knew
that this was really triggeredby something quite dark from a
dark place, and it wasn't itwasn't an actual interest.
Could it be possible that it wasjust chained upon the idea of
homosexuality by yourgreat-grandparents, and that's
why you were fighting it?
SPEAKER_02 (29:29):
It was my great-grandma, because the
minute she found out my mybrother was gay, she gave him
like a riot act.
Let's just put that's a nice wayof putting it.
So she kind of went off on them.
I've they've always known I Idated different girls, so it
wasn't for me, it wasn't that,it was just like I see that, and
I can't tell I'm having theseimages in my head, but I don't
(29:50):
know why.
To me, it was a no-winsituation.
SPEAKER_01 (29:53):
And you and then you mentioned when you were in
militaries when it kind of allreally started coming out to
you.
Do they provide therapy?
Is that one of those kind ofprovisions?
SPEAKER_02 (30:02):
If you ask for it, I didn't ask for it.
I used to train in as myaggression.
That was my way to geteverything out during the
training.
Whether it was the you know, theM16 training, the grenade
training, you know, hand-to-handcompound.
That was my that's the way I gotthings out.
SPEAKER_01 (30:20):
And was it was it during this time when you were
fighting this court case of uhgreat-granduncle?
Was were you already going totherapy at this point?
SPEAKER_02 (30:29):
No, I had already stopped therapy once I left the
group home.
I didn't I didn't continue it.
But the one thing that didhappen was once the court case
started, my lawyer, thesuggestion was for me to start
therapy so they could see that Iwasn't making this up, that this
was something that actuallyhappened.
So for those three years, it'syou know, I did go back to
(30:51):
therapy while I was actuallydoing the court case.
And then it helped me because itwasn't a therapy therapist I
picked, it wasn't a therapistthat the DA picked, it was a
therapist the court picked.
So it wasn't someone who hadnothing to gain.
SPEAKER_01 (31:05):
Oh, right.
That's really interesting.
That makes a lot of sense.
With that unbiased, they're notreally with the agenda of trying
to pull a certain truth for yourcourt case, for your court
battle, but rather they're justmerely trying to understand what
really happened to you.
And so then.
You're able to be more authenticand and unravel the kind of
things, the ordeal that hadreally gone on for you.
SPEAKER_02 (31:28):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (31:28):
And what kind of therapy was provided?
What did that kind of look like?
SPEAKER_02 (31:31):
Her name was Shannon, and I would meet with
her one hour a week in heroffice.
And she would just ask mequestions, we would just talk.
It was weird because this wasthrough court.
So the way the office was set upwas like white walls, and then
you had the metal chairs.
Kind of something kind of likesomething you would see in the
(31:52):
movie.
That's the kind of way it was.
So it carried out from childhoodall the way to like to that
incident.
So it was like three years ofjust unraveling stuff.
Like, how did we get to thispoint?
Remember, her recommendation wasthat that was my last that was
my last option because all theother options have failed me.
SPEAKER_01 (32:12):
Did she ever go through anything to help you to
um understand or to acknowledgesome of the repressed memories?
Like, for example, EMDR therapy,or what what were some of the
ways that you kind of got thesememories out?
SPEAKER_02 (32:27):
I know one time they did um hypnosis on me.
Don't know what happened, but uhduring that session, she said
that's where a lot of the traumacame out.
I just know it was reported tothe court, and that's kind of
what made the court lean more onmy side.
Even to this day, I don't Idon't know the full extent of
what was said because that partof the case was just sealed.
So there's probably stuff, otherstuff that I don't even know
(32:49):
about.
SPEAKER_01 (32:50):
The purpose is to bring these things out for you
to start doing that healingprocess.
It was like your brain was like,no, I'm gonna shut that part
out.
I'm just gonna say what I needto say, but I'm not gonna
actually like bring it to yourconscious mind that it must have
been pretty, pretty bad.
SPEAKER_02 (33:06):
Yeah, because I I I remember they told me um my
lawyer told me after everythingthat happened, like after that
session.
Well, he didn't tell me rightaway.
He told me a couple weeks later,when that incident happened, you
were already a ticking timebomb.
Like it was just unfortunatelyit was your great uncle, but
he's like it could have beenanybody.
Because he's like, You areyou're already ready to explode.
(33:30):
He said you held everything infor all those all those years,
and everything just wanted tocome out.
He's like, someone would havetriggered you at the wrong
moment, it would have been anugly situation.
And he's like it wouldn't evenbeen their fault.
It's because of everythingyou're with your great uncle and
your family, just everythingwhich is everything which is
building up.
You're just ready to explode.
SPEAKER_01 (33:49):
Can you talk to me about the kind of healing that
you went through after thiscourt case was over?
Everything was done.
SPEAKER_02 (33:57):
Um trying to adjust.
Trying to adapt to being metrying to find myself again
because you got to think forthree years I was structured to
do, you know, kind of focus onthis, couldn't do anything else.
So now it's like kind of gettingum back to my life.
September 11, 2001 happened inthe military, you know, because
(34:22):
I was already coming up on mythe end of my military career.
9-11 happened.
This case gets settled in Marchof 2002.
The military is like, what doyou want to do?
You want to re-sign, you want tostay in, or you want to get out?
That's kind of what saved me.
Without the military, I don'tknow where I would be right now.
And that's and I tell our peoplethat like after that court case,
(34:44):
if it wasn't for the militarythrowing me a lifeline, I don't
know what I would have done.
SPEAKER_01 (34:47):
Do you feel at this point when they when they'd
asked you if you wanted to resign and you chose to, were you
kind of more or less healed atthis point?
Those dreams still happening?
Were you still experiencing youknow some of the PTSD from from
what had happened to you whenyou were younger?
SPEAKER_02 (35:01):
So here's the here's the interesting bit, because you
know, even today I'm I'm intherapy because after that
happened, those dreams stopped.
What happened next was I gotdifferent dreams.
I got dreams of this man comingafter me.
I don't want to close my eyes atnight because when I close my
(35:22):
eyes, I would see his face.
It was more of me feeling I havea conscious, and it was more of
me feeling remorse.
Because again, I knew why hewasn't on his earth, and I think
you know, during those threeyears, I that conscience started
to weigh on me.
SPEAKER_01 (35:37):
Did you did you kind of like re-enter therapy at this
point again?
SPEAKER_02 (35:40):
No, I I I stopped therapy for a long time, and to
be honest, my therapy was um thebottle.
That's what it was at thatpoint.
SPEAKER_01 (35:48):
So you were you were drinking while at the same time
in military?
SPEAKER_02 (35:52):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (35:52):
Is it one of those kind of situations where it's
quite enabling in a sense whereyou're in an all-boys club,
right?
Like kind of egging each otheron and encouraging each other,
and you know, or would you sayit's quite the opposite, that
you were going through thatexperience quite on your own?
SPEAKER_02 (36:06):
I was I would say both.
The only people who knew what Ihad went through were um up for
leadership.
So they they knew.
But anybody below that, likethey didn't know nothing.
They just like I was just one ofthe guys, I'm just drinking with
you guys, but like again, theydidn't know like I'm drinking to
(36:28):
hide my pain and sorrow.
SPEAKER_01 (36:29):
How bad did the drinking get for you?
SPEAKER_02 (36:31):
I I wouldn't say it was bad because I I I pretty
much only drink on Fridays andSaturdays.
That's it.
I wouldn't drink during the thework week at all.
And then I wouldn't drink anddrive.
That was a that was a no-no forme.
SPEAKER_01 (36:45):
But you still felt a lot of relief from drinking.
So at that point, even though itwasn't a daily thing and it
wasn't debilitating and gettingin the way of your life, it was
enough for you to feel this ismy source of comfort.
SPEAKER_02 (36:58):
Yes, it was.
It was just something that comehome on a Friday, we had a
master sergeant who will callcertain ones of us in his
office, pull out a glass, andthen start pouring the shot at
Jack Daniels.
And you know, so it started inthe office.
SPEAKER_01 (37:12):
So walk me through what happens next, how did that
sort of change for you?
How did you start to kind oflike turn things around and cut
the alcohol and start choosinghealthier choices for yourself?
SPEAKER_02 (37:22):
I think when anybody you meet someone, and then it's
like you were telling yourself,okay, I'm gonna change for this
girl, but at the end of the day,you're you're changing for
yourself.
Kind of what happened, you know.
I think that person saw medrinking and then told me like
you passed out.
I have never passed out before.
So that was kind of my wake-upcall, my red flag, like, okay,
(37:43):
I'm drinking too much.
It was just um the genuine care.
And I think uh you could tellwhen someone's being genuine
with you, they care about you,they care about your well-being.
And before nobody asked me howmy day was or how are you
feeling, but when that that thatperson is taking the genuine
care in your life.
SPEAKER_01 (38:01):
That's so powerful that there can be someone who
can come into your life and andreally give you that safe space,
that feeling of like you can besafe here in whatever you have
to say and whatever you need tofeel and experience.
You can experience it to thefullest of extent in the safe
space.
And that can be so healing forso many people out there who
(38:21):
have always kind of felt alone,who have always felt very
unsafe, who've always felt youknow insecure in the place that
they're in.
Um healing to the point where itcan turn your life completely
around.
It can make you decide to makechoices and decisions for
yourself that can be so helpful.
And I think this is so importantfor our listeners that are
listening to this as well toknow that we all have that power
(38:44):
to make such a strong impact.
SPEAKER_02 (38:46):
Yes, but that that's exactly right.
I wish we had more of that inthe world.
I recently told someone like asksomeone how they're doing.
You will be surprised at theanswer you get.
Like, if you don't ask, you'llnever know.
Our thing is we assume we knowhow someone feels.
And like, no, just ask them.
That communication is key andeverything.
SPEAKER_01 (39:05):
So that incident that happened, you'd passed out
from alcohol, you were beingmade aware of it.
What did you do?
How did you do that?
SPEAKER_02 (39:12):
You know what?
I it yeah, just quit coldturkey.
It wasn't.
And I I hear all these stories,and people say, they asked me, I
was like, no, I didn't I didn'thave the shivers, I didn't have
the sweats, but then I whenpeople asked me, I said, I
didn't drink beer.
I drink hard hard liquor.
So I said there's there's adifference with that.
So I was fine.
Like, not something I crave fora while.
(39:35):
I I will get a shot and thendrink it, and I'll be fine for
like six months.
My advice was, you know,womanizing and lusting and not
being able to commit.
So like alcohol is just part ofit.
SPEAKER_01 (39:47):
So you sort of like made a decision at some point to
say, I'm just gonna stop justgoing for woman and for an
experience with with a woman forthe sake of it, and I'm gonna
try to find someone that I can Ican really commit to.
How did you go about changingthat?
What did you do from that pointon?
How did you turn that around?
SPEAKER_02 (40:07):
I had a friend invite me to church.
That's how everything happened.
Um, I remember that day becausethe pastor was talking about
legacy, and he's like talkingabout people that have kids,
your kids are your legacy, andnow that they're thinking, like,
that was the first time in mylife like I wanted to have kids.
Like, yes, God, I do want tohave kids, I do want to have a
(40:29):
legacy, but I need the rightperson.
I'm so thankful and grateful forthat because I had to be willing
and bit and obedient to figureout why they were putting on
certain parts of my life, andthat was to help me mature and
grow too.
I'm not, because of people thathave been in my life.
SPEAKER_01 (40:44):
Yeah.
How are your sister and brothernow?
SPEAKER_02 (40:47):
They're good.
They kind of got out of theOrange County area.
I still live in Orange County,they live in different areas.
My sister is the only one whoactually has communication with
our mother.
Me and my brother cut off allcommunication at the end of
time.
Like we all have our own livesto live.
If one of us needs each other,we'll always be there for each
(41:07):
other.
SPEAKER_01 (41:08):
Antoine, tell us a little bit about where you are
now, the work that you're doing,and how are you spreading this
message?
SPEAKER_02 (41:15):
So, right now, um current I currently finish a
year and a half of law school.
I'm currently pursuing mymaster's degree in human
trafficking.
Um, father of three, husband,own a clothing line.
How do I spread the message?
It's through our clothing line.
We I put motivational andinspirational scenes in our
(41:38):
shirt, and pretty soon we'reabout to drop a tank top, and
the tank top says, uh, my traumawill not define me.
And um put out a survey for it,and the survey came back
overwhelming.
It's a lot of people resonatedwith a lot of females resonated
with that saying.
The first tank top we put out,it kind of sold out.
(42:00):
It was called uh fight for yourlegacy.
People, you know, again, theyrelated with that message.
We want people to understand,like, especially with the
trauma, everybody goes totrauma, but don't let it define
who you are.
Um, I put out a message todaythat says, Don't let yesterday
steal today's joy.
SPEAKER_01 (42:21):
Yeah.
I love that.
Anton, thank you so much forsharing your story and your
vulnerability on air with us andbeing so truthful and honest
about everything.
I feel like there's so much ourlisteners are going to be able
to take away from yourexperience.
So thank you again.
SPEAKER_02 (42:36):
Uh thank you for having me.
It's been my pleasure.
And um, again, if one personcould heal from it, then my job
is done because I love the spacethat you have, and I love that
that people come on here to notonly heal themselves but help
other people heal kill also andgive them the tools that that
they've used.
SPEAKER_00 (42:59):
If you enjoyed the episode and would like to help
support the show, please followand subscribe.
You can rate and review yourfeedback on any of our platforms
listed in the description.
I'd like to recognize our guestswho are vulnerable and open to
share their life experienceswith us.
Thank you for showing us we'rehuman.
Also, a thank you to our teamwho worked so hard behind the
(43:19):
scenes to make it happen.
SPEAKER_02 (43:20):
Stefan Menzel.
Lucas Piri.
SPEAKER_00 (43:23):
The show would be nothing without you.
I'm Jenica, host and writer ofthe show, and you're listening
to Multispective.
Every six months we're in a new school.
Mother always put men above thekids.
So men were more important thanour own warfare.
There were family members whowanted him arrested, other
family members, and they wereprotecting him.
And I can remember walking in upin the middle of the night
because someone was pulling mypants down.
And it's just like I rememberjust closing my eyes real tight,
(00:28):
just thinking it was a baddream.
You know, if someone picks onyou, you gotta fight.
Someone calls you a name, yougotta fight.
I know I like females, so why amI having these weird dreams?
This man made me give him ablowjob.
And then told me, like, youpassed out.
I have never passed out before.
So that was kind of my wake-upcall.
Everybody goes through trauma,but don't let it define who you
(00:51):
are.
I was born in uh Santa Ana,California, raised um all over.
My mom, she how do I say this?
Every six months she wanted tomove.
So I was like, it was kind ofdifficult because moving for me,
(01:12):
you know, me and my siblings wasdifficult because every six
months we're in a new school, orevery year we're in a a
different school.
Home life wasn't good.
Uh mom was an alcoholic, she gotinto drugs.
Um that point we were sent to golive with our
great-grandparents, and thenthat's when things kinda got out
(01:36):
of control where uh me and mybrother and my sister, we were
molested by a great uncle.
And then that kind of just fromthere just I became that rebel,
that rebel kid, just doingeverything bad.
I played a role that the familygave me.
So if I was a bad seed, I playedthe bad seed too, the best way I
(01:58):
could.
You know, getting in trouble atschool, getting suspended.
I didn't know until I was sayingin high school, because I kept
having these weird dreams infoster home group home.
And during that time they sentme to a therapist who kind of
unraveled everything for me,like you were molested, that's
why you're having these types ofdreams.
(02:19):
So it it just and I kind offigured like this great uncle, I
didn't like being around him.
I just didn't know why then it'sgonna come to find out that's
what it was.
SPEAKER_01 (02:29):
You mentioned that your mom was moving around a lot
and you were all it's a familymoving together with her, and
obviously that kind of creates avery unstable childhood.
And every time you started toget kind of comfortable in your
space, you guys were up and out.
Was the reason for movingbecause of relationships that
she was getting into, or becauseher work was requiring her to
move, or was it just a personalchoice of hers?
SPEAKER_02 (02:51):
I would say it was a different relationship.
Our mother always put men abovethe kids, so men were more
important than our own welfare.
I can't even tell you how manytimes I was told to call someone
stepdad, or how many times menwere coming in and out the
house.
So it was just like very, youknow, very it wasn't stable, but
(03:12):
at the same time, it was kind ofno that's what I knew.
SPEAKER_01 (03:15):
Well, what about your birth dad?
SPEAKER_02 (03:17):
I have never met him.
There's stories that go aroundthat the day I was born, he was
at the hospital, he helped me,then left.
And then by the time I was 22years old, then he finally wrote
me a letter explainingeverything.
So his his explanation was himand him and my mom didn't get
along.
I wrote him back saying itdidn't matter if you guys didn't
get along.
You and her getting along hasnothing to do with you being my
(03:39):
father.
And then that I wrote him backand that was it.
I told him, I'm good, I'm 22years old.
At the time I was angry, so Itold him, What can you teach me
now?
He just he never wrote back.
SPEAKER_01 (03:50):
I wonder what that sort of did to you and your
siblings for in terms of thatfeeling of being wanted.
You know, I think I think one ofthe most important things for a
child is to feel wanted by theirparents.
When you don't have that fromyour parents at a time when you
need someone the most and you'rebeing neglected time and time
again, what kind of did that dofor you and your siblings?
(04:10):
Did you three bond as assiblings and did you kind of
kind of find that in each other,or were you were you also pretty
isolated from your siblings?
SPEAKER_02 (04:19):
Well, we got along pretty good.
My other two siblings, they havethe same dad, so their dad was
constantly in their life, andthen he would be there for me.
So my last name is actually hislast name.
So that's how they kind ofincluded me in everything.
I didn't know at the time.
For all the way until I was 18,it was kind of a cycle of lies.
So when I became 18, graduatedhigh school, joined the army, I
(04:42):
had to go get my birthcertificate.
That's how I found out who myreal dad was.
So it was one of those thingsthat my mom should have told me,
you chose not to tell me.
And then, like, we have this,well, we have a non-existent
relationship right now becauseit's like I can't have someone
in my life that's gonnaconstantly lie.
I have my own kids, I can't haveyou be around my kids if you
(05:03):
can't be honest with me.
It's like you have, you know,like I told my mom, you have
never been honest with me.
But my siblings, they they'vehad that relationship with their
dad, and I had that relationshipwith my stepdad, but it was
different.
And you tell, you tell it wasdifferent.
I knew something was differentabout us three because I came
out a little bit darker.
They have the same complexion.
There is something not rightthere, but as a kid, you don't
(05:26):
question it.
Someone tells you something,just go with what the adult
says.
SPEAKER_01 (05:30):
It's like you spent 18 years of your life kind of
questioning it, and you know,you you're listening, you have
moments where your gut istelling you something else, but
then at the same time, you'rebeing told on the outside that
no, this is like better not toask questions.
I can imagine that being reallydifficult for you.
SPEAKER_02 (05:44):
Yeah, it was it was uh a shock.
I would say the minute I joinedthe military was that minute
that I just kind of disappeared.
I think it was a good, I don'tknow, three or four years that I
didn't talk to anybody in thefamily.
I just needed that myself time.
It's kind of like off the grid.
Nobody knew anything until Icalled.
And in my mind, it's like youcan say you love someone, and
(06:04):
you know, for 18 years I waslied to, and then this is what
you're showing me love is, andthen I get into foster care,
foster home, I see love as adifferent thing.
So it's like, do I want thattoxic love or do I want someone
to be genuine, real with me?
SPEAKER_01 (06:17):
Now, you talked about like your mom then
eventually sending you off toyour grandparents.
Was there any reason for this?
SPEAKER_02 (06:24):
She had no choice.
She had got uh arrested for drugpossession.
So we wanted to live with ourgreat-grandparents.
No, I I can honestly say thatthat was a good portion of my
life because it was stabilityand it was structured.
Like my great-grandpa Saturdaymorning, six o'clock, wake me
and my brother up.
Let's go.
He would take us to work withthem.
(06:45):
So it kind of got you know, thatkind of started developing the
work ethnic and stuff in me, thediscipline.
So that was a good time in mylife, and then you know, my
great-grandma would just, youknow, she would cook for us, and
then um, you know, during sometime we'll all sit down and then
they'll just pour words ofwisdom into us.
SPEAKER_01 (07:07):
Do you feel like that's the thing that kind of
set that foundation a little bitfor you to sort of even overcome
and go through that healingprocess, like those kind of, you
know, little lessons that youwere being injected with at the
time?
SPEAKER_02 (07:18):
Yes, it does, because even to this day I still
think about those lessons.
Um, I tell my kids thoselessons.
SPEAKER_01 (07:24):
How old were you when you were when the three of
you were sent?
SPEAKER_02 (07:27):
I was in either the second or third grade.
SPEAKER_01 (07:30):
Okay, so fairly young.
How does your grandfather uhyour great-granduncle sort of
fit into this picture?
Did he was he living with themat the time?
SPEAKER_02 (07:38):
Yes, he was.
So my great uncle is mygreat-grandmother's brother.
So he had his own room in thehouse, so he stayed with them.
And at the time he wasn'tworking or doing no, at the at
the time he wasn't working.
He was a retired uh Vietnamveteran.
He had got a shell shock, wasinjured, so he had a hundred
(08:02):
percent disability.
He would travel from OrangeCounty, California to LA County,
LA County, and then he would goto other states too.
So we would see him for a weekand then probably won't see him
again for the next month.
But it's just that's just histhat was his thing.
But come to find out there'sthere's more to why he did what
he did.
Like why you only seen himcertain times.
(08:24):
What was that?
I was 21 when I confronted him,and I threw him down the flights
of stairs, I got a shovel, and Ihit him with it about three or
four times.
Got arrested, went to trial,three-year trial, and to come to
find out, like the reason he wasgone for like weeks at a time
(08:44):
because he wasn't just doing itto us.
He was wanted in LA County, hewas wanting in the state of
Oklahoma for doing the exactsame thing.
SPEAKER_01 (08:52):
And his target was always little kids.
SPEAKER_02 (08:55):
Yes, and it was always kids in the family.
Well, I don't want to say he wassmart enough, but he was he had
enough sense to know not to messwith kids from a different like
I don't know.
SPEAKER_01 (09:03):
So they were always like his siblings, children or
you know, cousins' children's.
Did he have children of his own?
SPEAKER_02 (09:11):
No, he didn't.
No children, he was nevermarried.
SPEAKER_01 (09:14):
Do you think that this was sort of something that
developed post military,post-war, post, you know, like a
a sign of like PTSD or orsomething?
Or is it something that healways had in him?
SPEAKER_02 (09:26):
I can't really say because I I don't know how he
was before the war.
And when we asked mygreat-grandma before she passed,
she would never say nothing.
So I don't know if she knew andshe didn't say nothing, or she
doesn't want to remember herbrother in that light.
SPEAKER_01 (09:40):
And the fact that he was a wanted person means that
there were a lot of otherpeople, family members who had
actually reported him.
Why why did he never really getcaught?
SPEAKER_02 (09:51):
The reason you said because there were other family
members that were willing tohide him.
At one point, he did go for likea month and a half and flew out
to other family members that wewe knew out in Arkansas.
And so there were family memberswho wanted him arrested, but
then there's at the same time asother family members who's who
thought us kids was making it upand they were protecting him.
(10:12):
So that's why he went on forlike, I think if I remember
correctly, my paperwork said isthey could go back at almost 10
years.
But I think it's I think it'sway longer than 10 years because
I was 22 when I confronted him.
And at the time I was living atthe house, it was like seven, so
that's that's at least 15 years.
But the state only, state ofCalifornia only went back 10
(10:33):
years.
SPEAKER_01 (10:33):
You mentioned that this was also going on with your
with your siblings, so this wassomething that was kind of like
happening at home um with all ofyou.
And was it ever something thatthe three of you ever discussed
about or kind of knew about?
SPEAKER_02 (10:44):
No, we didn't discuss until uh later on as we
got older, and then I was theone who brought it up, and then
once I brought it up, my brotherand sister kind of had similar
incidents, and then we startedtalking to other cousins, and
like someone were saying theyjust didn't feel right around
him, other aunts and uncles.
I think they knew because theywouldn't let their kids around
him.
(11:04):
Like, why do you not let yourkids around someone if you don't
know what's going on?
Your mother said that somethinghad happened with her and him.
Like, when did he do it to you?
Before the war or after he gothome?
SPEAKER_01 (11:16):
Yeah, that sort of put things into a certain
timeline.
If he was kind of doing thiswith your mother as well when
she was younger, then it'd beengoing on for a really, really
long time.
Can you tell me a little bitmore about like sort of the
extent of how he was going aboutit and what he was doing?
I mean, I know that you and yoursiblings all were living under
the same roof at this time, andhe managed to do it sort of
secretly in a way that none ofyou were aware of each other
(11:40):
situation.
Can you just like if you canremember or recall, like how how
was he going about this sort oflike at the time?
SPEAKER_02 (12:30):
So he would do things innocently, like, and he
would do it around other peoplewhere nobody else caught on.
Like, okay, so one time uh wehad to go to a banquet, and I
was sitting next to him, I gottired, and everybody's at the
table, it was a round table, andhe just grabbed my head and just
like, oh, you lay down and thenput my head like right in his
(12:54):
crotch area.
I was like, that was souncomfortable, I just put my
head back up.
And then there was another timewhere you know my we had get my
great-grandparents had guestsover at the house.
They had to sleep in our room.
And at this time, my brother wasliving, my other grandma had
took my brother in, so he wasliving in in Oakland,
California.
So I was there, and my grandmasaid, Go go sleep with your
(13:16):
uncle.
And so I went in there, and Icould remember walking in up in
the middle of the night becausesomeone was pulling my pants
down.
And it's just like I rememberjust closing my eyes real tight,
just thinking it was a baddream.
And it's funny because talkingabout it now, it's like I knew
something happened that night,and I I had said something to my
my great-grandma, and she hadasked him about it, and he's
(13:37):
like, no, no, he was probablydreaming.
I I wouldn't do that.
So it made me think that Iimagine it or was it real?
SPEAKER_01 (13:44):
You're kind of being gas-lit into thinking that you
nothing actually happened.
And so you're questioningyourself, you're questioning the
whole situation around you.
You know, the the adults arekind of you're always told that,
you know, adults are the are theones, they're right, they're
older, they're wiser, you haveto listen to them.
And and so when you're beingtold this, you're kind of like
fighting against your own gut,and you're also doing it all
(14:07):
alone, and it's your word versusyour great-granduncle.
Do you do you recall all of it,or did you at some point sort of
bury those memories and try tojust push it away?
How were you managing?
How were you dealing with it?
SPEAKER_02 (14:19):
So once I got to the group home and I got got into
therapy, that's the therapisttold me that I have blocked so
much of it out, and then likegoing to therapy, they they
started bringing it up and itjust awoken something inside of
me.
Because I started then I startedreally going in a dark area too.
Before that, I was I was doingfine, managing school, getting
(14:39):
good grades, and all that.
Then I just started going tothat dark area because I I start
everything just starts to comecome back.
SPEAKER_01 (14:47):
And you mentioned that like before before you were
even sent to that group home,you started rebelling a lot.
What did that look like?
SPEAKER_02 (14:53):
If I got grounded or something and I wasn't supposed
to do something, I would just doit anyway.
My grandparents were old school,so it's like there's a lot of
old school values like can'thave a girl over the house.
At an early age, I was intogirls, like second grade, I was
already into girls, so it's likekissing girls and all that
stuff.
So it's just like, again, Ididn't know why that was.
(15:14):
Later on, I found out because ofwhat I went through.
So my body wanted something thatI didn't know it wanted.
SPEAKER_01 (15:19):
When you're when you're being told for so long to
suppress emotions, boys don'tcry, that the way of dealing
with pain for for young foryoung guys growing up is often
to kind of turn to violence, toturn to aggression, to turn to
drugs, to be angry instead offeel the emotion.
Would you agree that that sortof was the situation for you as
(15:40):
well?
SPEAKER_02 (15:41):
Yes, because my great-grandparents grew up and
they were part of the civilrights movement.
Oh, that that era.
My great-grandfather was youhave to be tough.
No, beginning the fight, don'tcome home if you lose.
That kind that's what it wastold to me and my brother.
So it was just, you know, ifsomeone picks on you, you gotta
fight.
Someone calls you a name, yougotta fight.
(16:02):
That's that's what I learned.
That's the era I grew up in.
Like it was that kind of toughlove.
It's what they were taught fromtheir parents.
My grandparents tell us mymother got um locked up for
drugs.
The first thing they say is,like, she had no business doing
drugs.
If she can't, she went in, cameout, got caught for stealing.
(16:23):
She had no business stealing.
She's gonna do her time.
We're not bailing her out, we'renot getting her a lawyer.
She did the crime, she's gonnado the time.
I think that's a goodphilosophy.
If you do the crime, you gottado the time.
SPEAKER_01 (16:34):
That's a really interesting sort of like irony
in a sense, because yourgreat-grandfathers, on the one
hand, is encouraging you tofight, fight your case, but at
the same time, it's like, well,if you get caught, if you get in
trouble, well, then you're gonnahave to do your time and no
one's gonna bail you out.
And let's just add on to thefact that you've gone through
something so tragic and you'reyou've got this anger inside of
(16:56):
you.
You're already angry abouteverything, you haven't had an
outlet to get it out.
And now you are in this kind ofsituation where you're almost
encouraged to get into a fight.
Did you ever find yourselfgetting mixed up with the police
at any point?
SPEAKER_02 (17:10):
Not until like after 18.
From the time I was uhelementary until I graduated,
no.
No, I never had any encounter.
You know, yeah, I was a rebel, Idid all this stuff, like no
juvie, no nothing.
I I I thank God for that.
SPEAKER_01 (17:24):
And you mentioned that you did join the military
at the age of 18, right?
SPEAKER_02 (17:28):
Yes.
Yes, I did.
SPEAKER_01 (17:30):
So so you're you're kind of in this position where
you're still you still haven'treally figured out what really
is going on.
You're having these dreams,which I do want to talk a little
bit more about, but you'vejoined the military and at the
same time you're also you knowengaging in violence.
SPEAKER_02 (17:47):
Yes, I think um, so I was still in the military in
1999.
So in 1999, this is when theincident happened with my great
uncle, and then from 1999 allthe way to 2002 is when um me
going to trial, fighting thecase, and just something
happened during those threeyears where everything just
turned around for me.
(18:07):
It was the support to uh themilitary, the support of other
people, and there are people ifI fall, they're there to lift me
up.
And that's kind of what set meon that right path.
Even after 2002, I wasn't fullyhealed, and that took me down,
you know, drinking and you know,womanizing.
That was my next phase where Ijust did a lot of self-sabotage
(18:28):
in any good relationship I wasin because I didn't feel like I
deserved to be in a goodrelationship.
No, I didn't I was broken, Icouldn't be fixed.
SPEAKER_01 (18:36):
What was this incident that happened with your
grandfather that kind of saidled to this court case?
I know you mentioned that youkind of confronted your
grandfather.
What actually happened?
SPEAKER_02 (18:44):
My sister had called me and told me that our great
uncle had tried to go in thebathroom with my little niece.
Um the next day, you know, aboutsix in the morning, I went to
his house.
He came out the back door, andhe looked me in the eye, I
looked him in the eye, and hesaid, What are you doing here?
And I said, I looked himstraight in the eye, I said, I
know what you did to me.
(19:05):
The next thing he said is, Idon't want no trouble.
So to me, that was an omission.
I don't want no trouble.
Everything was just so built upinside of me at that point,
like, okay, I know you did it tome.
There's no way you're gonna doit to my little niece.
He put his hand on my shoulder,and then next thing I know, I
just grabbed him, threw him downsome stairs, walked to the rest
(19:28):
of the backyard, got a shovel,and hit him about three or four
times with a shovel.
And left.
And to tell you the truth, theonly re the only reason I could
recount this to you because Ihad to I literally had to read
my the uh court paperworkbecause if I don't report I
(19:49):
don't remember what happened.
And I remember the day I gotarrested, the cops told me you
had uh you had something theycall blind rage.
I don't I remember being there,but I don't remember what
happened after that.
I remember leaving.
But yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (20:05):
Until today, you you're not speaking out of
memory, you're speaking fromfrom the paper, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (20:11):
Because I can't, you know, and that's his rec
recollection of it.
Like he tells the story, like,yeah, we had that conversation,
and he threw me, and then hesorry, you know, in his
regulation, I started beatinghim with the the shovel.
And so after that happened, Ileft and he started screaming.
My great-grandma came out, hetold her what happened.
(20:33):
They called 911, called theambulance.
Um, and this is where everythingtakes uh a turn.
So when the ambulance getsthere, the ambulance asks him,
uh, Sir, do you want to go tothe hospital?
Do you want to get checked out?
He says, No.
So it gets me off the case formurder or mass slaughter or
(20:57):
anything.
Two weeks after this incident,he goes into the hospital with
back surgeon.
He dies on the operating tableif he catches pneumonia, and
then that's the only reason Igot charged because he wouldn't
have back problems if I didn'thit him with the shovel.
Then my lawyer said, Well, herefused the medical treatment.
Now, if he would have acceptedit, you can make a case.
(21:20):
But one thing I do recall isthat I was calmed up.
I know when I left, I know evenwhen I got arrested, my great
grandma's orders came back tome.
You do the crime, you do thetime.
So I I had confessed, and we getto the courthouse, they talk to
the officer who arrested me, andhe said he never made a
confession.
So it was just like one of thosethings, even though I could I
(21:41):
did confess to the officer, hejust because you know he asked
me what happened, why did I doit?
And I told him, he's like, no.
When they charged me, theycharged me with a special charge
covered called uh corporalpunishment because I was still
in the military at the time.
So it's like he's trained to dothat.
So I had a special charge on mejust for being in the military.
(22:02):
When I got arrested, I wasn'tscared.
I think I was more at peace.
And what it was more peacebecause I knew he was dead, no
other kids were gonna lose theirinnocence.
And at that time, I was I waswilling to do the time.
And my lawyer said, No, we wehave a good case.
You have mentioned this before.
This there's a timeline andnobody believed you.
So he said, We're gonna we'regonna fight this, and that's
(22:25):
kind of what happened.
SPEAKER_01 (22:26):
Yeah, I don't think I've ever heard of a case or a
situation where someone hasactually hurt someone.
Yeah, like the courts have kindof taken his side given
everything, given thecircumstances, given, you know,
like the the whole the whole waythis manifested was in a way
that kind of cleared you.
And there was no and the factthat there was no charge for
(22:46):
attempted murder or any of that,but in a way I'm so glad that it
kind of worked out in your favorbecause yes, what you did would
by by law be considered an actof assault.
But at the same time withreason.
And I think it's kind of one ofthe situations where the police
understood your situation, thelawyers understood your
situation, and everyone sort ofcame together for almost like
(23:09):
for something bigger than justthat particular situation
itself.
SPEAKER_02 (23:14):
Yeah, and I remember like so what they did charge me
with was uh elderly abusebecause he was uh over the age
of 70, so I got charged withelderly abuse.
And um when I got sentenced,they gave me three years
probation, that was it.
And I I I still remember to thisday that the judge looked at me
and he's like, you know, he kindof gave me a warning.
(23:35):
He's like, I don't want to eversee you here again.
And he's like, Mr.
Frazier, please, no morevigilante stuff.
Let the cops do their job.
So and the funny thing is thathappened, so that was 2002.
We're in 2025.
Me and that judge still keeps incontact with each other.
SPEAKER_01 (23:52):
Even you like listening to that, like hearing
that, kind of getting a certainvalidation, getting a sense of
kind of like, okay, like theyhear me, they they hear me.
Like I'm I'm feeling heard andvalidated at this point.
SPEAKER_02 (24:04):
Yeah, it felt uh felt refreshing.
Even on the district attorneyside, the the one who was
prosecuting me, we had a privateconversation, and she even told
me, she's like, You have neverchanged your story.
You have told the same story forthree years.
And she's like, I feel so badthat we had to prosecute you.
We wasted money.
(24:25):
It wasn't me, it's my boss.
Even you know, the whole officeis like what what person keeps
the same story for three years?
You usually find holes in it.
She's like, she was she was sadthat they for three years, like
we kept going through this,getting continuation, postponing
it, and she's like, You neverchanged your story.
You stuck to your guns when wetalked to other people,
(24:49):
everybody's story starting tosound different now.
Like, and she they starting tonotice that that people were
covering up for him, so otherpeople knew what he was doing.
And I love what the judge said,but I also love what the
district attorney said becauseshe saw, like, you never change,
you stood on your sameprinciples from the beginning.
Your story never changed forthree years.
SPEAKER_01 (25:08):
That's actually really, really useful for anyone
that's kind of gone through anykind of you know abuse or sexual
trauma or anything as such wherethey're you know required to go
to court.
Being being consistent with yourstory makes you more believable
in a sense, right?
Like it kind of validates whatyou're what you're uh what
(26:05):
you're really there fightingfor.
If you're consistently changing,which I understand it does
happen as well.
With with time, people kind oflose bits and pieces of the
story or remember other bits andpieces of the story.
But what that does is that kindof it makes you um sound very
you know flip-floppy and it andthen it kind of doesn't hold up
in court as as well.
(26:27):
I know you mentioned that foryou your bits and pieces of your
kind of memory were coming tolight later on in your life.
So you're also probablyrealizing, recognizing, learning
little bits of like whatactually happened to you at the
time, but still maintaining thatconsistency in court.
SPEAKER_02 (26:43):
Yes.
Um so I guess we'll get intothat the the dream part.
SPEAKER_01 (26:48):
Um tell me about that.
SPEAKER_02 (26:51):
Yeah, it's just like again, like I said, like I'm one
of those people, like, and I Iit was something I had to tell
myself too.
Like I know I like females, sowhy am I having these weird
dreams?
The therapy and everythingcoming, it's just like the
memories were coming out, likelike this man made me give him a
blowjob.
Like I was having dreams aboutthat.
(27:12):
Like, why was I having dreamsabout that?
And then it's like, oh, it'sjust like it it it made sense,
but then it didn't make sense tome in a way that I've always
trusted females more than I domales, even to this day.
And I couldn't understand that,but then it goes back all the
way to that trauma.
It's the whole judgmental thing.
(27:33):
Like in just certain situations,I just don't feel comfortable
around certain people.
If I hear something aboutsomeone, you know, being
traumatized or went through whatI went through, like sorry, I
don't care if you did that 10 or15 years ago to someone, we just
can't be friends.
I know we all deserve a secondchance, and I think that's
(27:53):
that's a prejudice and bias Ihave to work on.
But you know, from myexperience, it it shows like
when someone does something likethat, molest or abuse or rape,
it's kind of a thing, like it'snot a one-time thing.
So it's like it's not somethingthey're gonna stop.
So it's just like I just chooseto like remove myself from that
(28:15):
situation.
SPEAKER_01 (28:16):
So when these dreams were coming to you, were you
kind of were this was during thetime you were going to therapy,
or did this kind of like be wasthis the start of you seeking
therapy?
SPEAKER_02 (28:26):
I started having these dreams when I was probably
fifth or sixth grade and Ididn't understand them.
These are like dreams like Ididn't understand them, why am I
dreaming about other guys?
I'm not like that.
So it kind of it kind of freakedme out because like it happened
(28:48):
to my brother, and then mybrother became gay.
So it was like, and I'm like,no, I'm not like that.
Then when it happened to mysister, she became bisexual.
So it's just like this is notnormal.
So it's just like, no, I know Ilike girls, why am I having
these dreams by guys?
Why am I wondering things orstuff just popping in my head?
(29:08):
Because I'm not watching gayporn or nothing, so I don't know
why these images were popping inmy head.
SPEAKER_01 (29:12):
So it's like this part of you that kind of knew
that this was really triggeredby something quite dark from a
dark place, and it wasn't itwasn't an actual interest.
Could it be possible that it wasjust chained upon the idea of
homosexuality by yourgreat-grandparents, and that's
why you were fighting it?
SPEAKER_02 (29:29):
It was my great-grandma, because the
minute she found out my mybrother was gay, she gave him
like a riot act.
Let's just put that's a nice wayof putting it.
So she kind of went off on them.
I've they've always known I Idated different girls, so it
wasn't for me, it wasn't that,it was just like I see that, and
I can't tell I'm having theseimages in my head, but I don't
(29:50):
know why.
To me, it was a no-winsituation.
SPEAKER_01 (29:53):
And you and then you mentioned when you were in
militaries when it kind of allreally started coming out to
you.
Do they provide therapy?
Is that one of those kind ofprovisions?
SPEAKER_02 (30:02):
If you ask for it, I didn't ask for it.
I used to train in as myaggression.
That was my way to geteverything out during the
training.
Whether it was the you know, theM16 training, the grenade
training, you know, hand-to-handcompound.
That was my that's the way I gotthings out.
SPEAKER_01 (30:20):
And was it was it during this time when you were
fighting this court case of uhgreat-granduncle?
Was were you already going totherapy at this point?
SPEAKER_02 (30:29):
No, I had already stopped therapy once I left the
group home.
I didn't I didn't continue it.
But the one thing that didhappen was once the court case
started, my lawyer, thesuggestion was for me to start
therapy so they could see that Iwasn't making this up, that this
was something that actuallyhappened.
So for those three years, it'syou know, I did go back to
(30:51):
therapy while I was actuallydoing the court case.
And then it helped me because itwasn't a therapy therapist I
picked, it wasn't a therapistthat the DA picked, it was a
therapist the court picked.
So it wasn't someone who hadnothing to gain.
SPEAKER_01 (31:05):
Oh, right.
That's really interesting.
That makes a lot of sense.
With that unbiased, they're notreally with the agenda of trying
to pull a certain truth for yourcourt case, for your court
battle, but rather they're justmerely trying to understand what
really happened to you.
And so then.
You're able to be more authenticand and unravel the kind of
things, the ordeal that hadreally gone on for you.
SPEAKER_02 (31:28):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (31:28):
And what kind of therapy was provided?
What did that kind of look like?
SPEAKER_02 (31:31):
Her name was Shannon, and I would meet with
her one hour a week in heroffice.
And she would just ask mequestions, we would just talk.
It was weird because this wasthrough court.
So the way the office was set upwas like white walls, and then
you had the metal chairs.
Kind of something kind of likesomething you would see in the
(31:52):
movie.
That's the kind of way it was.
So it carried out from childhoodall the way to like to that
incident.
So it was like three years ofjust unraveling stuff.
Like, how did we get to thispoint?
Remember, her recommendation wasthat that was my last that was
my last option because all theother options have failed me.
SPEAKER_01 (32:12):
Did she ever go through anything to help you to
um understand or to acknowledgesome of the repressed memories?
Like, for example, EMDR therapy,or what what were some of the
ways that you kind of got thesememories out?
SPEAKER_02 (32:27):
I know one time they did um hypnosis on me.
Don't know what happened, but uhduring that session, she said
that's where a lot of the traumacame out.
I just know it was reported tothe court, and that's kind of
what made the court lean more onmy side.
Even to this day, I don't Idon't know the full extent of
what was said because that partof the case was just sealed.
So there's probably stuff, otherstuff that I don't even know
(32:49):
about.
SPEAKER_01 (32:50):
The purpose is to bring these things out for you
to start doing that healingprocess.
It was like your brain was like,no, I'm gonna shut that part
out.
I'm just gonna say what I needto say, but I'm not gonna
actually like bring it to yourconscious mind that it must have
been pretty, pretty bad.
SPEAKER_02 (33:06):
Yeah, because I I I remember they told me um my
lawyer told me after everythingthat happened, like after that
session.
Well, he didn't tell me rightaway.
He told me a couple weeks later,when that incident happened, you
were already a ticking timebomb.
Like it was just unfortunatelyit was your great uncle, but
he's like it could have beenanybody.
Because he's like, You areyou're already ready to explode.
(33:30):
He said you held everything infor all those all those years,
and everything just wanted tocome out.
He's like, someone would havetriggered you at the wrong
moment, it would have been anugly situation.
And he's like it wouldn't evenbeen their fault.
It's because of everythingyou're with your great uncle and
your family, just everythingwhich is everything which is
building up.
You're just ready to explode.
SPEAKER_01 (33:49):
Can you talk to me about the kind of healing that
you went through after thiscourt case was over?
Everything was done.
SPEAKER_02 (33:57):
Um trying to adjust.
Trying to adapt to being metrying to find myself again
because you got to think forthree years I was structured to
do, you know, kind of focus onthis, couldn't do anything else.
So now it's like kind of gettingum back to my life.
September 11, 2001 happened inthe military, you know, because
(34:22):
I was already coming up on mythe end of my military career.
9-11 happened.
This case gets settled in Marchof 2002.
The military is like, what doyou want to do?
You want to re-sign, you want tostay in, or you want to get out?
That's kind of what saved me.
Without the military, I don'tknow where I would be right now.
And that's and I tell our peoplethat like after that court case,
(34:44):
if it wasn't for the militarythrowing me a lifeline, I don't
know what I would have done.
SPEAKER_01 (34:47):
Do you feel at this point when they when they'd
asked you if you wanted to resign and you chose to, were you
kind of more or less healed atthis point?
Those dreams still happening?
Were you still experiencing youknow some of the PTSD from from
what had happened to you whenyou were younger?
SPEAKER_02 (35:01):
So here's the here's the interesting bit, because you
know, even today I'm I'm intherapy because after that
happened, those dreams stopped.
What happened next was I gotdifferent dreams.
I got dreams of this man comingafter me.
I don't want to close my eyes atnight because when I close my
(35:22):
eyes, I would see his face.
It was more of me feeling I havea conscious, and it was more of
me feeling remorse.
Because again, I knew why hewasn't on his earth, and I think
you know, during those threeyears, I that conscience started
to weigh on me.
SPEAKER_01 (35:37):
Did you did you kind of like re-enter therapy at this
point again?
SPEAKER_02 (35:40):
No, I I I stopped therapy for a long time, and to
be honest, my therapy was um thebottle.
That's what it was at thatpoint.
SPEAKER_01 (35:48):
So you were you were drinking while at the same time
in military?
SPEAKER_02 (35:52):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (35:52):
Is it one of those kind of situations where it's
quite enabling in a sense whereyou're in an all-boys club,
right?
Like kind of egging each otheron and encouraging each other,
and you know, or would you sayit's quite the opposite, that
you were going through thatexperience quite on your own?
SPEAKER_02 (36:06):
I was I would say both.
The only people who knew what Ihad went through were um up for
leadership.
So they they knew.
But anybody below that, likethey didn't know nothing.
They just like I was just one ofthe guys, I'm just drinking with
you guys, but like again, theydidn't know like I'm drinking to
(36:28):
hide my pain and sorrow.
SPEAKER_01 (36:29):
How bad did the drinking get for you?
SPEAKER_02 (36:31):
I I wouldn't say it was bad because I I I pretty
much only drink on Fridays andSaturdays.
That's it.
I wouldn't drink during the thework week at all.
And then I wouldn't drink anddrive.
That was a that was a no-no forme.
SPEAKER_01 (36:45):
But you still felt a lot of relief from drinking.
So at that point, even though itwasn't a daily thing and it
wasn't debilitating and gettingin the way of your life, it was
enough for you to feel this ismy source of comfort.
SPEAKER_02 (36:58):
Yes, it was.
It was just something that comehome on a Friday, we had a
master sergeant who will callcertain ones of us in his
office, pull out a glass, andthen start pouring the shot at
Jack Daniels.
And you know, so it started inthe office.
SPEAKER_01 (37:12):
So walk me through what happens next, how did that
sort of change for you?
How did you start to kind oflike turn things around and cut
the alcohol and start choosinghealthier choices for yourself?
SPEAKER_02 (37:22):
I think when anybody you meet someone, and then it's
like you were telling yourself,okay, I'm gonna change for this
girl, but at the end of the day,you're you're changing for
yourself.
Kind of what happened, you know.
I think that person saw medrinking and then told me like
you passed out.
I have never passed out before.
So that was kind of my wake-upcall, my red flag, like, okay,
(37:43):
I'm drinking too much.
It was just um the genuine care.
And I think uh you could tellwhen someone's being genuine
with you, they care about you,they care about your well-being.
And before nobody asked me howmy day was or how are you
feeling, but when that that thatperson is taking the genuine
care in your life.
SPEAKER_01 (38:01):
That's so powerful that there can be someone who
can come into your life and andreally give you that safe space,
that feeling of like you can besafe here in whatever you have
to say and whatever you need tofeel and experience.
You can experience it to thefullest of extent in the safe
space.
And that can be so healing forso many people out there who
(38:21):
have always kind of felt alone,who have always felt very
unsafe, who've always felt youknow insecure in the place that
they're in.
Um healing to the point where itcan turn your life completely
around.
It can make you decide to makechoices and decisions for
yourself that can be so helpful.
And I think this is so importantfor our listeners that are
listening to this as well toknow that we all have that power
(38:44):
to make such a strong impact.
SPEAKER_02 (38:46):
Yes, but that that's exactly right.
I wish we had more of that inthe world.
I recently told someone like asksomeone how they're doing.
You will be surprised at theanswer you get.
Like, if you don't ask, you'llnever know.
Our thing is we assume we knowhow someone feels.
And like, no, just ask them.
That communication is key andeverything.
SPEAKER_01 (39:05):
So that incident that happened, you'd passed out
from alcohol, you were beingmade aware of it.
What did you do?
How did you do that?
SPEAKER_02 (39:12):
You know what?
I it yeah, just quit coldturkey.
It wasn't.
And I I hear all these stories,and people say, they asked me, I
was like, no, I didn't I didn'thave the shivers, I didn't have
the sweats, but then I whenpeople asked me, I said, I
didn't drink beer.
I drink hard hard liquor.
So I said there's there's adifference with that.
So I was fine.
Like, not something I crave fora while.
(39:35):
I I will get a shot and thendrink it, and I'll be fine for
like six months.
My advice was, you know,womanizing and lusting and not
being able to commit.
So like alcohol is just part ofit.
SPEAKER_01 (39:47):
So you sort of like made a decision at some point to
say, I'm just gonna stop justgoing for woman and for an
experience with with a woman forthe sake of it, and I'm gonna
try to find someone that I can Ican really commit to.
How did you go about changingthat?
What did you do from that pointon?
How did you turn that around?
SPEAKER_02 (40:07):
I had a friend invite me to church.
That's how everything happened.
Um, I remember that day becausethe pastor was talking about
legacy, and he's like talkingabout people that have kids,
your kids are your legacy, andnow that they're thinking, like,
that was the first time in mylife like I wanted to have kids.
Like, yes, God, I do want tohave kids, I do want to have a
(40:29):
legacy, but I need the rightperson.
I'm so thankful and grateful forthat because I had to be willing
and bit and obedient to figureout why they were putting on
certain parts of my life, andthat was to help me mature and
grow too.
I'm not, because of people thathave been in my life.
SPEAKER_01 (40:44):
Yeah.
How are your sister and brothernow?
SPEAKER_02 (40:47):
They're good.
They kind of got out of theOrange County area.
I still live in Orange County,they live in different areas.
My sister is the only one whoactually has communication with
our mother.
Me and my brother cut off allcommunication at the end of
time.
Like we all have our own livesto live.
If one of us needs each other,we'll always be there for each
(41:07):
other.
SPEAKER_01 (41:08):
Antoine, tell us a little bit about where you are
now, the work that you're doing,and how are you spreading this
message?
SPEAKER_02 (41:15):
So, right now, um current I currently finish a
year and a half of law school.
I'm currently pursuing mymaster's degree in human
trafficking.
Um, father of three, husband,own a clothing line.
How do I spread the message?
It's through our clothing line.
We I put motivational andinspirational scenes in our
(41:38):
shirt, and pretty soon we'reabout to drop a tank top, and
the tank top says, uh, my traumawill not define me.
And um put out a survey for it,and the survey came back
overwhelming.
It's a lot of people resonatedwith a lot of females resonated
with that saying.
The first tank top we put out,it kind of sold out.
(42:00):
It was called uh fight for yourlegacy.
People, you know, again, theyrelated with that message.
We want people to understand,like, especially with the
trauma, everybody goes totrauma, but don't let it define
who you are.
Um, I put out a message todaythat says, Don't let yesterday
steal today's joy.
SPEAKER_01 (42:21):
Yeah.
I love that.
Anton, thank you so much forsharing your story and your
vulnerability on air with us andbeing so truthful and honest
about everything.
I feel like there's so much ourlisteners are going to be able
to take away from yourexperience.
So thank you again.
SPEAKER_02 (42:36):
Uh thank you for having me.
It's been my pleasure.
And um, again, if one personcould heal from it, then my job
is done because I love the spacethat you have, and I love that
that people come on here to notonly heal themselves but help
other people heal kill also andgive them the tools that that
they've used.
SPEAKER_00 (42:59):
If you enjoyed the episode and would like to help
support the show, please followand subscribe.
You can rate and review yourfeedback on any of our platforms
listed in the description.
I'd like to recognize our guestswho are vulnerable and open to
share their life experienceswith us.
Thank you for showing us we'rehuman.
Also, a thank you to our teamwho worked so hard behind the
(43:19):
scenes to make it happen.
SPEAKER_02 (43:20):
Stefan Menzel.
Lucas Piri.
SPEAKER_00 (43:23):
The show would be nothing without you.
I'm Jenica, host and writer ofthe show, and you're listening
to Multispective.
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