September 12, 2025 • 43 mins
*TRIGGER WARNING*
Jamie shares her journey from a traumatic childhood with narcissistic parents through addiction and sexual assault to eventual healing and recovery.
• Mother's narcissistic behavior created a household where emotions weren't allowed
• Father's suicidal thoughts and emotional blackmail
• Molested by her aunt's boyfriend
• Addiction to drugs
• Survived a home invasion sexual assault while living with her boyfriend
• Found healing through therapy, honesty with loved ones, and helping others
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Producer & Host: Jennica Sadhwani
Editing: Stephan Menzel
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
I've had horrible anxiety.
I've had trouble sleeping.
I've had a ton of shame,constantly Guilt for just being
me.
He was a good person and he didnot deserve that.
I was cheating on him all thetime.
I just needed to hurt, I guess,myself, anybody around me.
I was literally falling asleepat my desk because I was on
opioids and then using cocainein the bathroom to try to wake
up.
(00:25):
I wish I had an adult to liketake care of me.
I realized there was someonestanding in my hallway.
I start to hear this likeclicking sound in the room, like
, just like, over and over again, like it was my teeth
chattering.
It's like I need you to wash up, like you got blood everywhere.
You need to wash up.
I'll survive this moment andthen I'll survive the next
(00:46):
moment and then, right afterthat day, like I got drug-free
and like, oh my god, my lifeturned around.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Jamie, why don't you begin from the very beginning?
Speaker 1 (01:03):
Like, how was your childhood, how was your family
situation at home growing up?
So I'm the youngest of three.
I have an older brother, anolder sister and they're six and
seven years older than me.
So I was definitely kind oflike a surprise.
I don't talk to my parents.
I haven't talked to them inlike four years now.
They never wanted to be parents, they never wanted kids, but
(01:24):
they were good Catholics.
So it's like that's what youdid.
You know this word gets thrownaround a lot, but like my mom
was definitely a narcissist.
You know it was like nobody wasallowed to have any feeling in
the house, like that wasn't goodor happy or didn't mirror like
what she wanted at that time.
You know, and if she was upsetthen we all better be like
downtrodden as well, and we allbetter be like downtrodden as
well and we all better be like,you know, walking on eggshells
(01:44):
all the time.
I can remember like when I wasa kid then I was also like my
dad's therapist, like talking tohim all the time about like how
he hates being married to mymom and he's so depressed and he
would tell me all the time likeI'm not gonna come home for
work one of these days, or I'mgonna kill myself, so like I'm
not gonna come back home fromwork, and like I have such a
clear memory of, like one day,him saying that and like I don't
(02:05):
know if he must have said it ina certain way, that just really
scared me.
So it was like I came home fromschool and he wasn't home yet
and I was sick, like with worry,like sick with worry, and he
finally came in the door and Ilike literally like sobbed and I
was like oh my god, you're home.
He's like what do you mean?
Like of course I'm home and Ilike told him I was like you
said you weren't gonna come home.
You said you were gonna killyourself.
He was like, oh, like you watchtoo many movies, like you're
too too emotional, whatever.
(02:26):
So it's like from a young age Iwas always told like any
emotion other than happy or not,pretending that everything's
okay is bad so it was likealways very forced to like shut
myself down and be very quiet.
My mom didn't buy groceries, shedidn't make dinner, like my
sister was doing all that.
Like if anybody raised me itwas my sister and so obviously
there's a lot of resentmentsthere from my sister, but we
(02:48):
were both just like trying tosurvive this horrible household.
My role was definitely like thepeacemaker and like trying to
make everybody laugh.
But then I think when I becamelike more cognizant of god why
do I feel so heavy in this houseall the time, like why
everything just sucks and Ican't keep pretending like I
think the more cognizant Ibecame of that, the more I
became probably like the blacksheep, the troublemaker, you
(03:09):
know.
And by the time I was I wasusing drugs like started,
innocent, I guess you knowcigarettes, beer, marijuana,
stuff like that.
By the time I was 17, like I'dbeen introduced to opioids and
it was just yeah, it wasdownhill from there.
It was a horrible, horrible,horrible addiction, because
there was days when I didn'tthink I would have like 10 hours
clean.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
It's really tough to go through like a childhood like
that.
But, you know, one of thethings that I kind of believe is
that, like your childhoodreally sets the foundation for
the decisions you make later on,the ways that you cope, the
choices that you make later on,the relationships that you have
in your adult years.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Yeah, I'm curious as well about like relationships.
For you at that point, you knowthe biggest thing it's.
You know like I'll probably getlike emotional, so you'll have
to excuse me for that.
But you know, like I said, myparents never wanted kids and
they always let us know that.
And so one thing I would hear alot is you know my dad would
say things like you know I neverwanted kids, or you know it's
(04:10):
hard to take care of you guys,we don't have any money, stuff
like that, but I love you.
That's what he would say.
And so for a long time it waslike hearing someone say they
love me.
It just always made me feel badBecause I thought what a burden
this must be to them.
It's been a long time sinceI've touched on this, so I
(04:31):
apologize I'm getting reallyemotional about it, but so that
was like.
You know, I definitely tolerateda lot of partners or
friendships for a long timewhere it was like I felt like I
had to win them over.
You know like I had to prove Ifelt like I had to win them over
.
You know like I had to proveI'm lovable, you know.
Or I had to like do enough actsof service to, like you know,
prove you can love me.
(04:51):
You know, like I'm good, youcan keep me around, and it's
still like you know I have avery healthy relationship now
that I'm so eternally gratefulfor.
He's very emotionally mature.
But you know, there's stilltimes when, like he has to do
things for me, like I needed gasmoney the other day and it was
like nothing to him, but there's, you know, he didn't mind, like
, but there's still times whereit's like stuff like that will
(05:13):
still just like bring thisreally big sense of shame.
You know, because it's I justhave that scar from the
childhood still of like myparents always enforcing to me
like, hey, we love you, but andlike you, know a lot of times
too, it's like I've talked toother kids that grew up with,
you know, narcissistic parentsand stuff like that and a lot of
(05:35):
the times like they weren'tnecessarily even told like I
love you and stuff like that.
So it would also create like aconfusing of like well, I guess
I had it better than some kids,you know.
I guess I, you know, and I did,but a lot of ways, like I know,
it was a lot worse than mostkids, you know, and I think now
too, it's like, of course, theolder I get and the more I see
like other people's familydynamics, you know, especially
(05:58):
like my boyfriend, like hisfamily, they're just very kind
to each other and they just likeeach other and there's not like
these weird mind games, there'snot like these weird I did
something for you only so I canhold it over your head later.
You know, and I think aboutlike that's what makes me the
most upset now is like it couldhave been so much better, like
(06:20):
it could have been so muchdifferent.
You know, and you know as muchas, like, my boyfriend
understands like a lot, a lot ofthat, like what I've went
through, and you know heunderstands that it was, you
know, like fucked up and itwasn't fair.
It's like and I'm glad he'll howmuch it it leaves kind of like
a hole in you like forever, youknow, because it was just.
(06:46):
You know, I'm 36 now and Istill feel like I wish I had an
adult to like take care of me,like I wish I had somebody out
there that like checked in on me, you know, and it's like I know
that I I take care of myselfand I can take care of myself.
But I feel like I that's onething I never had was like an
adult out in the world liketaking care of myself.
But I feel like that's onething I never had was like an
adult out in the world liketaking care of me, you know, or
(07:08):
checking in on me or telling mehappy birthday and stuff like
that.
I'm an easy crier too, so Ishould probably warn you about
that.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
But yeah, I can see that that's really like affected
you in a lot of ways.
Like sometimes it feels likepeople don't really understand.
You know you're an adult, youcould have processed all of this
and stuff, but the reality islike that void, that hole is
always going to be there.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
I have a dear friend and, uh, grew up with a very
similar parent, you knowsituation, and we've been
friends since like elementaryschool and I feel like this is
also like a great mark of likenarcissistic parents is like,
from the outside, everybodythought my mom was so great and
so sweet and so nice and it'slike, yeah, like that's what she
wanted, you know, and I thoughtthe same thing of his mom, like
when we would have, like hewould have friends over, she
(07:54):
would literally be like bakingcookies.
She was very much like a, likea leave it to beaver kind of mom
.
She was just like almost thatstereotype of like know, a
caricature of it almost, andlike we kind of lost touch
throughout the years and we metback up, you know, a couple
years later and I, you know Iasked him like how his family
was doing and I was like, god,and how's your mom, like she's
always so sweet?
And he was like, oh, she juststraight up like abandoned our
family and I was like shocked,you know, I could not believe it
(08:16):
, and he was like, oh, my momalways was awful.
I feel like bad saying this, butit was almost kind of like such
a relief because it was like heknows exactly what I went
through.
It's like you can't let anybodyknow like how bad it is,
because it's embarrassing,because you're scared that like,
oh, could cps get involved?
And like take me away and like,even if your home life is scary
(08:37):
, like it's still your home,like you still don't want to get
separated from my siblings, youknow?
Or like would I be able to seemy grandma again?
Stuff like that.
You know like it was horriblethat he had to go through like
what he went through, but it waslike I've never met somebody
that got me on that level and itwas like we both instantly just
kind of like cried because wewere just like I know exactly
what you went through and whatabout people pleasing.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
How does that play a role?
Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
I'm definitely a people pleaser, but like I feel
I do feel like I've gotten somuch better about that.
I feel like you know I feel ithas.
It does go back to.
It's like like I'm a fat woman.
Fat doesn't bother me.
That's not an offensive word tome.
Um, I prefer that over likeplus size, curvy any of those
other into like each their own.
Whoever wants to use whateverword, but like fat doesn't
(09:23):
bother me.
So it's like I feel like I hadto go through a big journey of
like I'm allowed to be a fatwoman in the world.
Like I can take up space, I canfeel sexy, I can be desirable.
Before that I felt like Ialways had to look together.
I couldn't look sloppy, becauselike there was no bigger crime
(09:49):
than a fat person, like lookingsloppy in public.
I always have to remind myself,like no, you can take up space
like you are allowed to be here.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
I guess I don't feel that need to like check in or be
like bandage for people.
So let's, let's start with thewith the addiction aspect of it.
Like how did that sort of comeabout for you?
How were you introduced to it?
Why did it become, yeah, athing for you?
Speaker 1 (10:00):
when I was 12, my mom , my mom's sister, my aunt she
worked two jobs in Colorado.
My mom volunteered me to go outthere in Colorado and I mean I
didn't really want to but I alsoknew I didn't really have a
choice.
So I go and I don't think myaunt told my mom that she had a
boyfriend living with her.
It ended up being now that Ilook back on it, it was just
(10:22):
grooming.
It was like I'm sorry yourparents don't realize how
special you are and you're sobeautiful, like, and no one
tells you that he would comehome from work and be like, oh,
let's, you know, let's drinktogether while we make dinner
and stuff, because my aunt wasworking all the time.
So I mean, yeah, it was just hemolested me inappropriate
touching, you know, sexualcomments that like at the time I
(10:43):
didn't understand.
You know, now, looking back, Irealize more.
So, like I knew at the timelike what's happening shouldn't
be happening.
But now, like I have morecontext to like how
inappropriate some of thosethings were you made me sick to
my stomach.
So I think I was dealing withthat and I was dealing with
narcissistic parents.
I've had horrible anxiety, I'vehad trouble sleeping, I've had
a ton like of shame constantly,like guilt for just being me.
(11:07):
And so I think when somebodyintroduced me because it was
truly like it was so casual thefirst time it happened it was
just like from zero to a hundred.
You know, it was like wheneverI could get them then, like my
dad, he has um rheumatoidarthritis, so stealing
medications from him, I wasstealing medications from like
from friends, from friends,parents, like it ramped up to
(11:27):
the point of like it was justhydrocodone and then you know
the oxycontin and stuff likethat.
And it was just like I was yeah, I was already struggling with
addiction and then the nightthat I was assaulted, it was
just like and the night that youwere assaulted, were you living
on your own?
Speaker 2 (11:42):
were you living with your family at this point?
Speaker 1 (11:43):
so at that time I had a boyfriend and he was just
like polar opposite of what Iwas, but I felt that that would
be good for me.
Like he was religious and hewas very clean cut, like, oh,
this will be good for me and Ican go live with him so I can
get out of my parents house andI cannot be around all the same
people and you know, maybe thiswould be good for, like, my drug
(12:04):
use, because I won't be able tobe around people that can get
me drugs all the time.
So I moved in with him and helived with his brother.
His brother had bought thehouse.
I lived with both of them andso their grandmother had died
and she lived in Wisconsin and Ihad just started a new job
because I had just moved there,like not that long ago, to move
(12:26):
in with my boyfriend and I hadgotten into a car accident and I
dislocated my hip and broke mycollarbone, so now I also have
like incredibly easy access toopioids.
It was bad.
When I think about this timenow is like I was already busy
doing so much self-destruction.
But this is like embarrassingto admit, but I just feel like
to really paint this picture.
I was already busy doing somuch self-destruction.
(12:46):
But this is like embarrassingto admit, but I just feel like
to really paint this picture.
I was cheating on him all thetime.
I just knew I wasn't happy,like I was so—he was a good
person and he did not deservethat.
But it was just like I justneeded to hurt, I guess myself,
anybody around me, like anybodythat wasn't miserable, was my
enemy.
I don't think he had any ideahow bad it had gotten.
(13:07):
You know, like I like I hadlost my job, uh, and I, so I
just started a new job.
I was literally falling asleepat my desk because I was on
opioids and then using cocainein the bathroom to try to wake
up.
I was just completely out ofcontrol.
But I was living with myboyfriend and his brother and
you know his grandma died, oh,him and his brother were gonna
go, and then I was gonna be atthe house alone, like I remember
, that night.
You know his grandma died, sohim and his brother were gonna
go, and then I was gonna be atthe house alone, like I remember
that night, obviously you knowvery clearly, but it was just
(13:29):
like any other night until itwasn't it was a Tuesday and they
had left on Sunday and theywere gonna be gone till the
following Sunday and you know,like I had work that day and I
mean I was still using drugslike obviously all day.
The minute I got home I was justgetting high and stuff like
that.
And after a while of, like,just nodding out on the couch.
I was like, well, you know, I'mgoing to get upstairs and go to
bed.
I dozed off and I have no ideaif, like, I woke up because I
(13:54):
heard something or if, I don'tknow, that wizard part of your
brain kind of goes into actionof, like you're in danger.
I have no no idea.
But, like I realized there wassomeone standing in my hallway
and it was very dark, like so,so dark.
It's like I had, you know,blackout curtains in my room and
everything, and I had the dooropen, like, and I woke up and I
(14:17):
realized there's this manstanding there, or you know,
just a person.
At first and I'm like, what areyou doing here?
Like, why are you here?
And then I, like I remembertelling him too, like this it's
inappropriate that you're here.
Like I don't.
I don't know why those are thewords I chose and he, like then
he stepped a little bit closerto me and I realized like he had
(14:38):
something in his hand, but Icouldn't tell what it was, and
he said I'm here to see you.
And I was like, okay, well,this is you know.
And then I gave my address andI was like I don't think you're
in the right place.
And he was like no, I'm here tosee you.
And that's when I was just like, oh, he's not here to rob me,
you know, because like he couldhave done that.
(14:59):
So then I'm kind of thinking,do I know this person?
Did I upset somebody?
And then I sit up a little bitand like, finally, like, from
where he was standing, like thelight hits, like what's in his
hand?
And I can tell it's a knife.
And that's when I was like like, oh, like he's not here to see
me, like he's here for somebodyyou know, like, and it just
happens to be me, and he likecomes into the room and you know
(15:29):
he's at the foot of my bed.
I'm, like you know, trying tokeep the covers on me and he has
like a backpack on and he setslike the knife down and he takes
his backpack off and he sitsdown on the chair and I start
telling him like I don't knowwhere my purse is, but like you
can have everything in it, and Ihad like 20 bucks or so on my
nightstand.
Have everything in it.
And I had like 20 bucks or soon my nightstand.
I was like you can have that.
And I was like take whateveryou want.
And I was like this is just amisunderstanding, you can go,
like it's okay, it's just amisunderstanding, you can go.
(15:52):
And he was like what you knowwhat if I?
What about if I stayed?
Like I can't stay, like I feellike as women, we're conditioned
to, like we know we have to benice to men to keep them calm,
you know, and because we don'tknow how they react to us.
And so I was like well, youknow what can I help you with?
Like what you know, what do youneed?
How about you stand up for meand see what, what kind of fun
(16:12):
we could have?
How about you just stand up forme?
I tried to stand up and justlike stay as far away from him,
obviously, and he's like no, no,like come over here by me.
I start to hear this likeclicking sound in the room, like
just like over and over again,like it was my teeth chattering,
like I was shaking, just likeso intensely, like without
realizing it, without you know,it was just like a reflex.
(16:32):
And and then, like my neck waslike soaking wet and I realized
like I'm sweating so bad andlike I'm shaking to the point of
like it hurts.
So he says he told me to takeoff my shirt.
You know, at first like I'mstill trying to do the thing of
like no, no, no, this is like aweird misunderstanding, you know
.
So I was like I don't haveanything on under this, like I
(16:53):
can't do that.
And he's like I know, I know,Just take your shirt off.
And he was like my underwearstands up and like, and he like
he had a hoodie on and he putthe knife like in his hoodie
pocket and like I just kepttelling myself in my head like I
need to know at all times, likewhere that knife is.
(17:13):
I had no end plan.
I had no, this is what I'mgoing to do, so this is how I'll
get away.
It was like I'll survive thismoment and then I'll survive the
next moment and then you know,hopefully maybe something will
happen to where I will livetonight.
I'm alive, the second, I'malive, the second, I'm alive,
the second.
And that's that's all I had.
Like that's all I could keeptelling myself.
(17:34):
He's standing in front of me andhe was like lay down on the bed
and and I do like on my backand he's like no, no, like I
want you to turn over.
And at that point I figuredlike he was going to rape me,
but it was like, more thananything, I was like, oh, he's
gonna kill me.
That's why he doesn't want meto see what he's doing.
You know like he's gonna killme.
You know like I can feel likeevery like my neck is soaking
(17:57):
wet, my back is soaking wet likeI'm sweating.
I was just terrified.
I was so confused.
I had just had a niece and anephew born and I remember like
the only thought I had in myhead was like all I'm gonna be
is like a picture to them andI'll just be like a story of
like their aunt that they had,that they didn't know.
They would have to tell peoplelike you know, oh it's because
she was murdered, you know.
(18:18):
Then, like I feel him get on topof me and I can tell that I can
tell that he's naked because,like I can, like I don't feel
any clothing on him.
Like the next thought I had waslike I was scared he was gonna
(18:41):
like rape me anally and likethat, like I was just so
terrified because, like I don'tengage in anal sex, like I have
never done that, and I'm justthinking like how painful this
was about to be, you know, andalso thought about how, when I
(19:05):
was a kid and my aunt'sboyfriend, you know, had
molested me, and I remember likesaying in my head too, like
such fucking bullshit, like I'vealready went through this, like
why, why, you know, and I'vebeen on like such a path of like
self-destruction since then and, you know, your lizard brain
just keeps telling you like tosurvive, you like do everything
you can to survive.
Like he finishes and he gets upand I try to like roll over so
I can also like cover up andhe's like no, no, stay there.
(19:26):
And again, like all of a suddenit's that big, like I'm gonna
die now because like he's gotwhat he wanted.
You know, clearly he's not hereto rob me and I just remember
thinking like, yeah, maybe Iwill just like stay here, like
laying on my stomach, because Idon't want to see him, I don't
want to watch him as I die.
Then I could hear like there wasa guest room like right next to
(19:46):
my bedroom and I could telllike he was going through that
room and there was like a minifridge in that room and I could
hear him like opening up a canof I think it was just beer in
that fridge and I could hearrustling sounds like he was
eating, like there was likechips and stuff in there and I
was just thinking like this isjust how, like you know, my mom
(20:07):
would say these terrible thingsand like physically abuse me and
then act like nothing was wrongand we'd all have dinner
together and I was like and thisman just did this to me and now
he's just like eating chips anddrinking a beer.
And then I can hear him comingback into the room.
He sits down in the desk chairor whatever.
He's like why don't you rollover?
Like let me look at your face,like I want to see how pretty
(20:28):
you are, and it was like maybe Ican talk my way out of this.
You know, like we can have aconversation and I can make it
go my way somehow, some way, andlike I sit up and you know, I
asked him, like do you needanything?
Like can I?
You know, like I have someextra clothes here too.
Like like I think you might,you might, fit in some of my
(20:49):
roommate's clothes.
I just assumed, like thebackpack he had, like maybe you
know, like he was homeless, likeand that's just what he was
carrying around, and I was likeyou know, and we have money, and
I was like it's not a lot,because I really need to go to
the grocery store.
So then I'm trying to covermyself up and he's like no, no,
no, I want to see you.
(21:10):
He has the knife in his handsitting there at the desk.
I'm sure he's making sure I cansee it.
And he's like you live herealone.
And I was like no, I live herewith my boyfriend and a couple
of his friends.
They went out tonight butthey're going to come home.
And he didn't flinch, like hedidn't, he didn't care.
He was like I used to go outwith my girl all the time, but
you know, we just broke up, likewe've been fighting, and we
(21:31):
just broke up.
I want to have a kid and she'snot ready to.
And I was like, yeah, well,maybe it's a good thing.
Then maybe you can findsomebody who wants kids.
And like I'm literally justtalking to fill the air, like
just talking and talking andtalking.
And he's like no, but like Iwanted her and you know I'm
gonna get her back.
I was like you know, maybe youcan show up and do something
nice for her, like flowers andstuff like that.
(21:52):
And he was like, well, should Ibrought you flowers you put out
and I didn't even bring you anyflowers like spread it open
right away for me and I didn'thave anything for you.
I have to play, play along,though.
And I'm like you know, I don'tknow a lot of people here in
town, like I haven't lived herefor very long, be nice to make
new friends here.
So I thought it might be a goodidea and like maybe we could
get to know each other afterthis.
Sluts always say stuff like thatoh no, I'm just looking for
(22:13):
friends, like you know.
And then next thing, you knowthey make really pretty babies
together.
And he's like how do you feelabout having a black baby?
Like would you like that?
And I was like you know, yeah,like I think they're beautiful,
Like black children arebeautiful.
And I was like but you know, Ireally don't want any kids Still
(22:35):
again, just like talking tofill the air.
And he starts like saying didyou lock all your doors tonight
before you went to bed?
And I didn't know, like Ithought I did.
And I was like I think I did.
And he was like how do youthink I got in here?
And I was like did I leave adoor unlocked?
And he was like well, I guessI'll let you figure it out the
whole time.
I'm just like fucking angrythat I have to be nice to him.
You know he stands back up andhe's like well, I guess you're
(23:04):
ready for round two.
And he's like this time, likewe're gonna make sure you finish
.
I have to just say whatever Ihave to say to get through this
night.
And I was like, oh yeah, like Ienjoyed it so much the first
time, I don't think we need todo it again.
And he's like, well, we'regoing to.
I roll back out, like lay downon the bed on my back, and then
I go to roll over and he's likeno, no, I want to watch you.
This time he like put his fullbody weight on me, like smushing
me, and it was just obviouslyit was like uncomfortable
because of the situation ingeneral, but just because of
(23:25):
like how heavy he was on top ofme and his breath was just it
was horrible.
It was like I don't know, itwas so awkward already, but then
even more awkward because ofhow he's just like smushing me.
I remember seeing his eyes acouple times, but even then it
was like it was so dark.
You know, know, there was nodistinguishing features, but he
was really really thin and likeprobably about as tall as me I'm
(23:45):
about five, five and like hesounded young and so I was just
like maybe he hasn't doneanything like this before and
like that's why, like this isjust so weird.
The whole time he had assaultedme like he wasn't using
protection or anything.
The whole time I'm laying thereI'm also just like thinking like
all of a sudden I'm gonna feelsomething sharp or I'm gonna
feel this like blow to my heador or just something.
(24:05):
But at some point he like triedto I'm on to me in a different
direction, like get a little bithigher up, and he like the
knife like stabbed me.
So I yelled out and immediatelyhe was like I'm sorry, I'm
sorry.
So then, like it's bleedingpretty good and I can feel the
blood running down my belly,like finally, like he gets up
and he realizes like you know, Iwas bleeding pretty good and
(24:26):
he's like here you can cleanyourself up a little bit.
What if we just get you in theshower?
Like we'll rinse you off, youknow, and that way we can keep
going and we keep having fun.
But I'm thinking like I want tobe as disgusting as possible,
maybe if and smelling andbleeding, like you'll leave, you
know, and.
But then I hear him like go intothe bathroom and turn on the
(24:47):
shower and like he puts me inthe shower.
He's like I need you to wash up, like you got blood everywhere
you need to wash up.
And he's like you're gonnastand in here till I tell you to
get out.
If you leave, if you try tomake a run for it, like I'll
kill you.
And he's like you know and Iknow where you live, like I can
go back whenever I want.
And so like, standing in thereand I'm washing and like I can't
hear anything at all, and Iturned on like the water a
(25:09):
little bit, so like the pressureis not so much, so I can hear a
little bit better, and I likealmost start to step out and
like I have one leg out of theshower, one leg in, and he pulls
me, like by my hair out of theshower and he like pulls my head
back and he holds the knife upto my neck and he said I will
kill you, I'm gonna fucking killyou.
(25:30):
And he said you're gonna standhere and you're gonna wash until
I tell you to get out.
I want to keep having fun withyou, don't you want to keep
having fun?
And I tell him, like you know,I'm sorry, like I'm for a towel
and he's like you know, thatdoesn't fucking matter, you're
gonna fucking listen to me.
The water had been turned down,you know a little bit, so, like
it wasn't as loud, I could hearthat he was like messing with
the sliding door in the livingroom and so I knew where he was
(25:52):
in the house and I knew thatlike I could, probably I could
go, and it was truly one ofthose things of like before I
knew I was doing it, I was doingdoing it, and I remember at
first, like coming out of theshower and I'm running, and I
just remember like thinking likeno, like I'm getting the fuck
out of this house, like I'm notgoing to get caught.
And then I rounded that cornerreally quick and went down three
(26:13):
more stairs and at this point,like I'm right at the front door
and immediately I see him likeat the top of the three stairs
and I have the front door, I'mjust about to get it open and it
and it is kind of like open,partially open, and he came up
like flying down the steps.
Like my adrenaline was just itwas pumping and I knew that like
if I don't leave now, like I'veupset him.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
He's already stabbed me, like he's already said he'll
raped me.
It is now or never.
And so, like he dove under thedoor and he got it closed a
little bit, but I don't knowthis, like superhuman strength
like just took over me.
It was like the adrenaline andthe fear and the gist of like
fuck you, like you are not goingto be why I don't live, this is
(27:00):
not going to be the end of mebecause of you, and I swing the
door open, but he's still likepushing his weight against it
and so like I still can't getout all the way, but I at least
have my knee in the door, buthe's still like I just hear this
like weird noise, like it waslike a growl, like I was just
this guttural of like, liketruly like a death metal scream
at him and I was right by hisface, like, and he was trying to
(27:23):
close the door and I'm tryingto get it open, and I was
screaming at him and I couldfeel like spit flying out of my
mouth onto his face and like Iand I like I think too like how
loud I was screaming, and thenthe fact that the door was
partially open did like make himpanic a little bit because he
did kind of release and it wasjust enough that I like got the
door all the way open and I ran.
(27:44):
And I like because I was in suchsurvival mode like I didn't
even know I mean, I knew I wasnaked but I didn't care.
I did not care and like Iwanted to stop immediately at my
next door neighbors, but I'mjust thinking like I was too
scared again to like look behindme to see if he's there.
So I was like I'll cross thestreet and go to like one of
those neighbors and just as I'mabout to do that, like I see
(28:05):
someone's car, dome light turnedon, and coincidentally, like
this was the only neighbor thatI actually knew and he was like
dome light was on in his car andhe's like half out of it and he
was looking at his phone and Ijust came running up to him and
I just said you gotta call 911.
You gotta call 911.
Yeah, he jumped immediatelyinto action.
He got out of his car and Imean like grabbed my hand and
(28:26):
literally like we just ran intohis house, like ran and like
immediately, like he's likeslamming against his door and he
locked it and I just sat on thestairs and like I just like I'm
sobbing.
I was just sobbing and sobbingand sobbing and this whole time,
like he's on the phone with 911and and the cops show up and
like there's like seven carsthat show up, you know it was a
(28:47):
shit ton of police.
The female officer is like I'mgonna, you know, take you to the
hospital and she's like why youget your rape exam done, why
you talk to the police and isthere anybody we can call?
I don't want to call myboyfriend because I'm like he's
dealing with his grandmother'sfuneral and at that point, like
my sister and I are very closenow, but at that time like we
weren't speaking and I wasn'ttalking to my parents, so it was
(29:08):
like I had nobody to call.
You know, it was like I wasalmost like embarrassed too,
because I was just like likenormal girls are like good
people, or good girls would havesomebody to call that care they
would have somebody to callthat care they would have, like
good parents or somebody thatshowed up for them.
But like how do you tell astranger like I don't talk to my
(29:31):
parents because they'reterrible people by the way, like
I'm a drug addict so I don'treally have friends and it was
just so embarrassing.
And so then I go to thehospital, I talk about
everything with them.
I like go over pretty much thewhole story.
The first thing the cop sayswas are you sure this isn't just
like a mad ex-boyfriend?
(29:51):
How do you there's no suchthing as like the perfect victim
but like theoretically, likethe kind of rape that I endured
is like the one in a million.
You know it's like sostatistically low and like I
would be like the quote-unquote.
You know it's like sostatistically low and like I
would be like the quote-unquoteperfect victim.
I didn't know this guy.
He broke into my home you knowI wasn't out, I wasn't drunk, I
wasn't wearing a bad outfit, Iwasn't being provocative, you
(30:14):
know what I mean.
Like I was in my own home and Iwas attacked, so like.
But even the quote-unquoteperfect victim still has to
endure questions like are yousure it wasn't just an ex, even
if it was like, is this stillnot horribly traumatic?
Am I worthy of your time,officer?
You know so I tell him like no,I didn't know this person.
He thinks that he was watchingme, at least for a couple days,
(30:34):
to know that nobody was going tobe there or that, you know he
could tell that I've been alonebecause he had me take the
shower.
They didn't get a comprehensivedna profile.
I mean they had, like theycheck everything you know and
like check your pubic region,and they didn't find anything
there, any hair that wasn't mine.
They said that could be alitany of things like he could
shave or could have just washedoff in the shower, but they
(30:55):
didn't find anything.
They had nothing like I meanthey asked all my neighbors if
they ever saw anything, anyweird behavior, any suspicious
cars.
Nobody really said anythingalong those lines that they'd
seen anything weird.
It was just like he literallydisappeared after he I mean
after like I was able to finallycome home where he cut me, like
I ended up meeting three and ahalf stitches, three stitches.
(31:16):
Like it wasn't a very bad, likebig wound and I like I said I
don't think he did mean to stabme, but like I had to have
surgery because when I had thelike stitches put in I don't
know, the skin was too taut andso I don't know it had caused
complications like in my bellybutton.
I know a lot of people meant sowell, but they were like I hope
that you know more time goes onbut you'll have less and less
(31:38):
things that trigger you and I'mjust like I have this daily.
This is a daily reminder that Ihave.
Like your body is the crimescene.
You know, it's been a long timesince I've like I did go to the
support group after and I metlike very lovely women there and
but there was nobody else whohad been like through a rape
like mine, like they which I'mnot saying that was any less
(31:58):
traumatic or anything like that,but they had all knew who their
attacker was.
So it was like that was alsokind of like isolating, I don't
know.
It also kind of made me aspectacle.
Like in the group they almostkind of said like oh well, what
you went through like makes mineseem like not that bad and it's
like I'm not like here for that, like I don't want to hear,
like I I'm here for like thecamaraderie or like the
understanding.
(32:18):
There you can win something.
This is not what I want to win,like I don't.
Right after that day, like I gotdrug free and like, oh my god,
my life turned around and I likebecame such a great person, but
it's a big thing like addictswill have like a you know like a
rock bottom moment or something, and it was like I had so many
of those.
It was just like the finalculmination of so many of them.
(32:40):
I had lost a lot of friendsbecause I'd stolen from them,
like either drugs, or I'd stolenfrom their parents or, and it
was just like a suddenrealization of like I will just
keep losing people, you know,and like I don't have family to
fall back on.
Like I need these people that Ilike have made my family, you
know.
And I went to rehab immediately.
I remember like the first orsecond day of like therapy.
(33:01):
Like I went to rehabimmediately.
I remember like the first orsecond day of like therapy like
you have you have group therapy,but then like the one-on-one
therapy, and they were just likeyou know what are some of the
issues that you think caused youto use drugs.
I was like, where do we startand how much time do you got?
Getting clean obviously was abig help in terms of like making
peace with everything thathappened to me.
But I think, more than anythingwas like I used to be so
(33:25):
obsessed with this idea of likeI was gonna find him, like I was
gonna figure out who did it.
I don't know how I was gonna dothat, but I don't know I would
remember some event from thatnight.
I would something would come tomind where maybe I'd remember
his face now or something youknow, and I was just literally
consumed by this and I don'tknow.
It was more like nobody evertried to like talk me out of
that, like everybody was veryunderstanding, like I don't know
(33:45):
what peace feels like and Idon't know if I've ever known
what that feels like and I waslike but I fucking better, like
I'm 26 and I can't keep goingthrough life like this and I
can't.
I'm miserable all the time, youknow.
So it was like a mixture of therehab, the cultivating better
friendships, making, makingamends, through all the shitty
(34:07):
things I'd done.
But also I had to get veryhonest with a lot of people in
my life.
I had to tell my sister thehorrible things that had
happened to me.
And the night that I told mysister like hey, this happened.
And then, you know also,ariane's boyfriend did this to
me.
Like I told her everything.
That was like the first night.
I slept unmedicated and I don'tuse sleeping medications now,
(34:27):
like I've never had to thank God, but like since then, but it
was just like the freedom, therelease of, like I don't carry
this anymore, like I refuse tolike be a shelter for like men's
shame and men's embarrassmentand men's shitty manage, like
stress management and emotionalskills, and like I just am not
(34:49):
gonna do it anymore.
And I was just thinking of,like you know, if a friend had
told me they went through this,like what would I tell them?
I would tell them, like thisisn't your burden to carry
anymore.
Like I can, I can let it go orI can be dragged around by this
forever.
And it was.
I just didn't want to do itanymore.
Like this happened to me.
I know it did, whether youbelieve it or not, and I don't
(35:10):
carry around men's shame anymore.
My body's not a crime sceneanymore, it's my home.
When I think of him, I don'teven think of like there was a
scary man out there that rapedme.
It's.
I think of like how old was he?
You know?
I think of did his friendsthink he's funny?
Like did he have pets?
Like, was he a libra?
(35:32):
Like is he what's his favoritefood?
Like I don't and I don't knowwhy.
Those are the thoughts that Ihave, but it's like before he
was just this.
Like like enigma, this darkcloud.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
No, you know, you remember and recall in such
detail about what had happenedto you in that time.
It seemed like he was a bitdeluded in his own head, and the
way he perceived the wholesituation where he himself may
have not seen it as rape butrather as a consensual thing,
the way he was addressing women,like you know, maybe it had
something to do with hischildhood, maybe it had
something to do with the thingsthat led up to him doing that as
(36:08):
well, right, and so maybe to anextent somewhat humanizing it
or knowing a little bit thatthere was somewhat of a reason.
Again, it doesn't make it anybetter, but it kind of humanizes
, like it, you know it.
What are your thoughts, though,on things like on the concept
of like forgiveness?
Do you feel like it's importantto forgive?
(36:29):
Do you feel like you'veforgiven him?
I?
Speaker 1 (36:32):
I haven't forgiven him because there has been no
sorry, there has been no right,like uh, no attempt to fix what
he did.
But then, at the same time,like I've had thoughts, just
like what you said, like, did hethink that somehow this was an
encounter that I enjoyed?
Like I don't, I don't need toforgive him to be whole or to
feel whole from it.
I don't think about it everyday and I don't think I mean, I
(36:53):
guess I think about it every day, but I don't think about it in
a way of like god, I hope he'ssuffering, I hope he's miserable
.
So, like you're not, holding onto the anger aspect of it
anymore, but like you haven'tforgiven him, but that doesn't
mean that you're holding on tothat anger and letting it drive
you no not anymore if I like wasto ever get the chance to like
talk to him, I'd want him toknow that, like I don't know, I
(37:14):
guess I want him to know like Idon't think about you, like I
obviously like I do, because youwill right, like it's a human
thing, but like I refuse to letyou, and like how you terrified
me take up any more than my lifelike yeah, I don't think about
you and I can only imagine thatlike how sad and lonely your
(37:35):
life must be because, like happy, healthy people like don't do
that, you know, and I was onlike one hell of a path of
self-destruction, like when youassaulted me.
I know how much I hated myselfthen.
I can only imagine how muchhate you have to have to commit
an act like this, that it's likeI did so many terrible things
and like in addiction.
(37:56):
I would never want somebody tojudge me like based on the worst
thing I ever did, but also likethe worst thing I ever did was
like steal from my dad.
Speaker 2 (38:05):
It wasn't right, it wasn't rape somebody.
You know what I mean, soexactly I don't know.
I guess I go back and forth onthat and also it's, at the end
of the day, like we're.
We are humans.
So how do we know and how do wejudge?
Right?
I guess it's like you know,having a court system, having
laws in place, those, those are,like you know, they really
create this ultimate judgment onhuman behavior.
(38:26):
But the truth is, do we havethat power, do we have that
right to make that judgmentabout other people?
I always feel like the more wehear a person's story, we
understand where they come from.
Not that it makes their actsworse, but it just makes it a
little bit more understandable.
That doesn't give anyone aright to violate someone or take
away someone else's right totheir own lives, but it kind of
(38:47):
puts things into certainperspective.
For a moment.
You can stop and be like thisis a result of, you know,
something really dark in theirown personal lives.
And, yes, ideally they wouldhave had the resources to go to
therapy, they would have had theresources to learn how to cope
with it in healthy ways.
But hey, we don't live in thatworld.
Therapy is expensive.
Speaker 1 (39:08):
I guess the biggest thing I feel now, after talking
to you about it all, is like I'mso proud of where I'm at now
because I didn't think I'd stillbe alive.
Speaker 3 (39:18):
I didn't think I'd live through that night.
Speaker 1 (39:19):
I didn't think I'd live through my addiction.
I didn't think I'd live throughthat night.
(39:44):
I didn't think I'd live throughmy addiction.
I didn't think I would do somany things.
And now it's like I have agreat community of people around
me, like I'm I've met peoplefrom all walks of life and like
I don't know.
I'm just proud of that becauseI I'm not sure if I would have
been able to do that kind ofwork unless I did that kind of
work for myself for yourself andshowed myself that same kind of
compassion yeah, yeah
Speaker 2 (40:00):
jamie, thank you so much for sharing your your story
and you know your experience insuch detail.
I really appreciate you beinghere and sharing the whole story
with us.
I genuinely believe that themore we believe that we deserve
good, the more we do actuallybring that, and here you are
standing today in such apositive sort of spirit.
(40:21):
So, yeah, I really reallyappreciate you sort of for doing
this with me thank you forletting me talk about all of it
and going through everything.
Speaker 1 (40:29):
I like I found so much purpose in helping other
people go through what I wentthrough and even just like
helping people in general likeis really what saved me I love
that I love that.
Speaker 2 (40:38):
That's so sweet, jenny.
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (40:41):
I really enjoyed talking to you, though I really
did.
Speaker 3 (40:48):
If you enjoyed the episode and would like to help
support the show, please followand subscribe.
You can rate and review yourfeedback on any of our platforms
listed in the description.
I'd like to recognize ourguests who are vulnerable and
open to share their lifeexperiences with us.
Thank you for showing us we'rehuman.
Also, a thank you to our teamwho worked so hard behind the
scenes to make it happen.
(41:08):
Stefan Menzel, Lucas Piri theshow would be nothing without
you.
I'm Jenica, host and writer ofthe show, and you're listening
to Multispective perspective.
I've had horrible anxiety.
I've had trouble sleeping.
I've had a ton of shame,constantly Guilt for just being
me.
He was a good person and he didnot deserve that.
I was cheating on him all thetime.
I just needed to hurt, I guess,myself, anybody around me.
I was literally falling asleepat my desk because I was on
opioids and then using cocainein the bathroom to try to wake
up.
(00:25):
I wish I had an adult to liketake care of me.
I realized there was someonestanding in my hallway.
I start to hear this likeclicking sound in the room, like
, just like, over and over again, like it was my teeth
chattering.
It's like I need you to wash up, like you got blood everywhere.
You need to wash up.
I'll survive this moment andthen I'll survive the next
(00:46):
moment and then, right afterthat day, like I got drug-free
and like, oh my god, my lifeturned around.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Jamie, why don't you begin from the very beginning?
Speaker 1 (01:03):
Like, how was your childhood, how was your family
situation at home growing up?
So I'm the youngest of three.
I have an older brother, anolder sister and they're six and
seven years older than me.
So I was definitely kind oflike a surprise.
I don't talk to my parents.
I haven't talked to them inlike four years now.
They never wanted to be parents, they never wanted kids, but
(01:24):
they were good Catholics.
So it's like that's what youdid.
You know this word gets thrownaround a lot, but like my mom
was definitely a narcissist.
You know it was like nobody wasallowed to have any feeling in
the house, like that wasn't goodor happy or didn't mirror like
what she wanted at that time.
You know, and if she was upsetthen we all better be like
downtrodden as well, and we allbetter be like downtrodden as
well and we all better be like,you know, walking on eggshells
(01:44):
all the time.
I can remember like when I wasa kid then I was also like my
dad's therapist, like talking tohim all the time about like how
he hates being married to mymom and he's so depressed and he
would tell me all the time likeI'm not gonna come home for
work one of these days, or I'mgonna kill myself, so like I'm
not gonna come back home fromwork, and like I have such a
clear memory of, like one day,him saying that and like I don't
(02:05):
know if he must have said it ina certain way, that just really
scared me.
So it was like I came home fromschool and he wasn't home yet
and I was sick, like with worry,like sick with worry, and he
finally came in the door and Ilike literally like sobbed and I
was like oh my god, you're home.
He's like what do you mean?
Like of course I'm home and Ilike told him I was like you
said you weren't gonna come home.
You said you were gonna killyourself.
He was like, oh, like you watchtoo many movies, like you're
too too emotional, whatever.
(02:26):
So it's like from a young age Iwas always told like any
emotion other than happy or not,pretending that everything's
okay is bad so it was likealways very forced to like shut
myself down and be very quiet.
My mom didn't buy groceries, shedidn't make dinner, like my
sister was doing all that.
Like if anybody raised me itwas my sister and so obviously
there's a lot of resentmentsthere from my sister, but we
(02:48):
were both just like trying tosurvive this horrible household.
My role was definitely like thepeacemaker and like trying to
make everybody laugh.
But then I think when I becamelike more cognizant of god why
do I feel so heavy in this houseall the time, like why
everything just sucks and Ican't keep pretending like I
think the more cognizant Ibecame of that, the more I
became probably like the blacksheep, the troublemaker, you
(03:09):
know.
And by the time I was I wasusing drugs like started,
innocent, I guess you knowcigarettes, beer, marijuana,
stuff like that.
By the time I was 17, like I'dbeen introduced to opioids and
it was just yeah, it wasdownhill from there.
It was a horrible, horrible,horrible addiction, because
there was days when I didn'tthink I would have like 10 hours
clean.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
It's really tough to go through like a childhood like
that.
But, you know, one of thethings that I kind of believe is
that, like your childhoodreally sets the foundation for
the decisions you make later on,the ways that you cope, the
choices that you make later on,the relationships that you have
in your adult years.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Yeah, I'm curious as well about like relationships.
For you at that point, you knowthe biggest thing it's.
You know like I'll probably getlike emotional, so you'll have
to excuse me for that.
But you know, like I said, myparents never wanted kids and
they always let us know that.
And so one thing I would hear alot is you know my dad would
say things like you know I neverwanted kids, or you know it's
(04:10):
hard to take care of you guys,we don't have any money, stuff
like that, but I love you.
That's what he would say.
And so for a long time it waslike hearing someone say they
love me.
It just always made me feel badBecause I thought what a burden
this must be to them.
It's been a long time sinceI've touched on this, so I
(04:31):
apologize I'm getting reallyemotional about it, but so that
was like.
You know, I definitely tolerateda lot of partners or
friendships for a long timewhere it was like I felt like I
had to win them over.
You know like I had to prove Ifelt like I had to win them over
.
You know like I had to proveI'm lovable, you know.
Or I had to like do enough actsof service to, like you know,
prove you can love me.
(04:51):
You know, like I'm good, youcan keep me around, and it's
still like you know I have avery healthy relationship now
that I'm so eternally gratefulfor.
He's very emotionally mature.
But you know, there's stilltimes when, like he has to do
things for me, like I needed gasmoney the other day and it was
like nothing to him, but there's, you know, he didn't mind, like
, but there's still times whereit's like stuff like that will
(05:13):
still just like bring thisreally big sense of shame.
You know, because it's I justhave that scar from the
childhood still of like myparents always enforcing to me
like, hey, we love you, but andlike you, know a lot of times
too, it's like I've talked toother kids that grew up with,
you know, narcissistic parentsand stuff like that and a lot of
(05:35):
the times like they weren'tnecessarily even told like I
love you and stuff like that.
So it would also create like aconfusing of like well, I guess
I had it better than some kids,you know.
I guess I, you know, and I did,but a lot of ways, like I know,
it was a lot worse than mostkids, you know, and I think now
too, it's like, of course, theolder I get and the more I see
like other people's familydynamics, you know, especially
(05:58):
like my boyfriend, like hisfamily, they're just very kind
to each other and they just likeeach other and there's not like
these weird mind games, there'snot like these weird I did
something for you only so I canhold it over your head later.
You know, and I think aboutlike that's what makes me the
most upset now is like it couldhave been so much better, like
(06:20):
it could have been so muchdifferent.
You know, and you know as muchas, like, my boyfriend
understands like a lot, a lot ofthat, like what I've went
through, and you know heunderstands that it was, you
know, like fucked up and itwasn't fair.
It's like and I'm glad he'll howmuch it it leaves kind of like
a hole in you like forever, youknow, because it was just.
(06:46):
You know, I'm 36 now and Istill feel like I wish I had an
adult to like take care of me,like I wish I had somebody out
there that like checked in on me, you know, and it's like I know
that I I take care of myselfand I can take care of myself.
But I feel like I that's onething I never had was like an
adult out in the world liketaking care of myself.
But I feel like that's onething I never had was like an
adult out in the world liketaking care of me, you know, or
(07:08):
checking in on me or telling mehappy birthday and stuff like
that.
I'm an easy crier too, so Ishould probably warn you about
that.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
But yeah, I can see that that's really like affected
you in a lot of ways.
Like sometimes it feels likepeople don't really understand.
You know you're an adult, youcould have processed all of this
and stuff, but the reality islike that void, that hole is
always going to be there.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
I have a dear friend and, uh, grew up with a very
similar parent, you knowsituation, and we've been
friends since like elementaryschool and I feel like this is
also like a great mark of likenarcissistic parents is like,
from the outside, everybodythought my mom was so great and
so sweet and so nice and it'slike, yeah, like that's what she
wanted, you know, and I thoughtthe same thing of his mom, like
when we would have, like hewould have friends over, she
(07:54):
would literally be like bakingcookies.
She was very much like a, likea leave it to beaver kind of mom
.
She was just like almost thatstereotype of like know, a
caricature of it almost, andlike we kind of lost touch
throughout the years and we metback up, you know, a couple
years later and I, you know Iasked him like how his family
was doing and I was like, god,and how's your mom, like she's
always so sweet?
And he was like, oh, she juststraight up like abandoned our
family and I was like shocked,you know, I could not believe it
(08:16):
, and he was like, oh, my momalways was awful.
I feel like bad saying this, butit was almost kind of like such
a relief because it was like heknows exactly what I went
through.
It's like you can't let anybodyknow like how bad it is,
because it's embarrassing,because you're scared that like,
oh, could cps get involved?
And like take me away and like,even if your home life is scary
(08:37):
, like it's still your home,like you still don't want to get
separated from my siblings, youknow?
Or like would I be able to seemy grandma again?
Stuff like that.
You know like it was horriblethat he had to go through like
what he went through, but it waslike I've never met somebody
that got me on that level and itwas like we both instantly just
kind of like cried because wewere just like I know exactly
what you went through and whatabout people pleasing.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
How does that play a role?
Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
I'm definitely a people pleaser, but like I feel
I do feel like I've gotten somuch better about that.
I feel like you know I feel ithas.
It does go back to.
It's like like I'm a fat woman.
Fat doesn't bother me.
That's not an offensive word tome.
Um, I prefer that over likeplus size, curvy any of those
other into like each their own.
Whoever wants to use whateverword, but like fat doesn't
(09:23):
bother me.
So it's like I feel like I hadto go through a big journey of
like I'm allowed to be a fatwoman in the world.
Like I can take up space, I canfeel sexy, I can be desirable.
Before that I felt like Ialways had to look together.
I couldn't look sloppy, becauselike there was no bigger crime
(09:49):
than a fat person, like lookingsloppy in public.
I always have to remind myself,like no, you can take up space
like you are allowed to be here.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
I guess I don't feel that need to like check in or be
like bandage for people.
So let's, let's start with thewith the addiction aspect of it.
Like how did that sort of comeabout for you?
How were you introduced to it?
Why did it become, yeah, athing for you?
Speaker 1 (10:00):
when I was 12, my mom , my mom's sister, my aunt she
worked two jobs in Colorado.
My mom volunteered me to go outthere in Colorado and I mean I
didn't really want to but I alsoknew I didn't really have a
choice.
So I go and I don't think myaunt told my mom that she had a
boyfriend living with her.
It ended up being now that Ilook back on it, it was just
(10:22):
grooming.
It was like I'm sorry yourparents don't realize how
special you are and you're sobeautiful, like, and no one
tells you that he would comehome from work and be like, oh,
let's, you know, let's drinktogether while we make dinner
and stuff, because my aunt wasworking all the time.
So I mean, yeah, it was just hemolested me inappropriate
touching, you know, sexualcomments that like at the time I
(10:43):
didn't understand.
You know, now, looking back, Irealize more.
So, like I knew at the timelike what's happening shouldn't
be happening.
But now, like I have morecontext to like how
inappropriate some of thosethings were you made me sick to
my stomach.
So I think I was dealing withthat and I was dealing with
narcissistic parents.
I've had horrible anxiety, I'vehad trouble sleeping, I've had
a ton like of shame constantly,like guilt for just being me.
(11:07):
And so I think when somebodyintroduced me because it was
truly like it was so casual thefirst time it happened it was
just like from zero to a hundred.
You know, it was like wheneverI could get them then, like my
dad, he has um rheumatoidarthritis, so stealing
medications from him, I wasstealing medications from like
from friends, from friends,parents, like it ramped up to
(11:27):
the point of like it was justhydrocodone and then you know
the oxycontin and stuff likethat.
And it was just like I was yeah, I was already struggling with
addiction and then the nightthat I was assaulted, it was
just like and the night that youwere assaulted, were you living
on your own?
Speaker 2 (11:42):
were you living with your family at this point?
Speaker 1 (11:43):
so at that time I had a boyfriend and he was just
like polar opposite of what Iwas, but I felt that that would
be good for me.
Like he was religious and hewas very clean cut, like, oh,
this will be good for me and Ican go live with him so I can
get out of my parents house andI cannot be around all the same
people and you know, maybe thiswould be good for, like, my drug
(12:04):
use, because I won't be able tobe around people that can get
me drugs all the time.
So I moved in with him and helived with his brother.
His brother had bought thehouse.
I lived with both of them andso their grandmother had died
and she lived in Wisconsin and Ihad just started a new job
because I had just moved there,like not that long ago, to move
(12:26):
in with my boyfriend and I hadgotten into a car accident and I
dislocated my hip and broke mycollarbone, so now I also have
like incredibly easy access toopioids.
It was bad.
When I think about this timenow is like I was already busy
doing so much self-destruction.
But this is like embarrassingto admit, but I just feel like
to really paint this picture.
I was already busy doing somuch self-destruction.
(12:46):
But this is like embarrassingto admit, but I just feel like
to really paint this picture.
I was cheating on him all thetime.
I just knew I wasn't happy,like I was so—he was a good
person and he did not deservethat.
But it was just like I justneeded to hurt, I guess myself,
anybody around me, like anybodythat wasn't miserable, was my
enemy.
I don't think he had any ideahow bad it had gotten.
(13:07):
You know, like I like I hadlost my job, uh, and I, so I
just started a new job.
I was literally falling asleepat my desk because I was on
opioids and then using cocainein the bathroom to try to wake
up.
I was just completely out ofcontrol.
But I was living with myboyfriend and his brother and
you know his grandma died, oh,him and his brother were gonna
go, and then I was gonna be atthe house alone, like I remember
, that night.
You know his grandma died, sohim and his brother were gonna
go, and then I was gonna be atthe house alone, like I remember
that night, obviously you knowvery clearly, but it was just
(13:29):
like any other night until itwasn't it was a Tuesday and they
had left on Sunday and theywere gonna be gone till the
following Sunday and you know,like I had work that day and I
mean I was still using drugslike obviously all day.
The minute I got home I was justgetting high and stuff like
that.
And after a while of, like,just nodding out on the couch.
I was like, well, you know, I'mgoing to get upstairs and go to
bed.
I dozed off and I have no ideaif, like, I woke up because I
(13:54):
heard something or if, I don'tknow, that wizard part of your
brain kind of goes into actionof, like you're in danger.
I have no no idea.
But, like I realized there wassomeone standing in my hallway
and it was very dark, like so,so dark.
It's like I had, you know,blackout curtains in my room and
everything, and I had the dooropen, like, and I woke up and I
(14:17):
realized there's this manstanding there, or you know,
just a person.
At first and I'm like, what areyou doing here?
Like, why are you here?
And then I, like I remembertelling him too, like this it's
inappropriate that you're here.
Like I don't.
I don't know why those are thewords I chose and he, like then
he stepped a little bit closerto me and I realized like he had
(14:38):
something in his hand, but Icouldn't tell what it was, and
he said I'm here to see you.
And I was like, okay, well,this is you know.
And then I gave my address andI was like I don't think you're
in the right place.
And he was like no, I'm here tosee you.
And that's when I was just like, oh, he's not here to rob me,
you know, because like he couldhave done that.
(14:59):
So then I'm kind of thinking,do I know this person?
Did I upset somebody?
And then I sit up a little bitand like, finally, like, from
where he was standing, like thelight hits, like what's in his
hand?
And I can tell it's a knife.
And that's when I was like like, oh, like he's not here to see
me, like he's here for somebodyyou know, like, and it just
happens to be me, and he likecomes into the room and you know
(15:29):
he's at the foot of my bed.
I'm, like you know, trying tokeep the covers on me and he has
like a backpack on and he setslike the knife down and he takes
his backpack off and he sitsdown on the chair and I start
telling him like I don't knowwhere my purse is, but like you
can have everything in it, and Ihad like 20 bucks or so on my
nightstand.
Have everything in it.
And I had like 20 bucks or soon my nightstand.
I was like you can have that.
And I was like take whateveryou want.
And I was like this is just amisunderstanding, you can go,
like it's okay, it's just amisunderstanding, you can go.
(15:52):
And he was like what you knowwhat if I?
What about if I stayed?
Like I can't stay, like I feellike as women, we're conditioned
to, like we know we have to benice to men to keep them calm,
you know, and because we don'tknow how they react to us.
And so I was like well, youknow what can I help you with?
Like what you know, what do youneed?
How about you stand up for meand see what, what kind of fun
(16:12):
we could have?
How about you just stand up forme?
I tried to stand up and justlike stay as far away from him,
obviously, and he's like no, no,like come over here by me.
I start to hear this likeclicking sound in the room, like
just like over and over again,like it was my teeth chattering,
like I was shaking, just likeso intensely, like without
realizing it, without you know,it was just like a reflex.
(16:32):
And and then, like my neck waslike soaking wet and I realized
like I'm sweating so bad andlike I'm shaking to the point of
like it hurts.
So he says he told me to takeoff my shirt.
You know, at first like I'mstill trying to do the thing of
like no, no, no, this is like aweird misunderstanding, you know
.
So I was like I don't haveanything on under this, like I
(16:53):
can't do that.
And he's like I know, I know,Just take your shirt off.
And he was like my underwearstands up and like, and he like
he had a hoodie on and he putthe knife like in his hoodie
pocket and like I just kepttelling myself in my head like I
need to know at all times, likewhere that knife is.
(17:13):
I had no end plan.
I had no, this is what I'mgoing to do, so this is how I'll
get away.
It was like I'll survive thismoment and then I'll survive the
next moment and then you know,hopefully maybe something will
happen to where I will livetonight.
I'm alive, the second, I'malive, the second, I'm alive,
the second.
And that's that's all I had.
Like that's all I could keeptelling myself.
(17:34):
He's standing in front of me andhe was like lay down on the bed
and and I do like on my backand he's like no, no, like I
want you to turn over.
And at that point I figuredlike he was going to rape me,
but it was like, more thananything, I was like, oh, he's
gonna kill me.
That's why he doesn't want meto see what he's doing.
You know like he's gonna killme.
You know like I can feel likeevery like my neck is soaking
(17:57):
wet, my back is soaking wet likeI'm sweating.
I was just terrified.
I was so confused.
I had just had a niece and anephew born and I remember like
the only thought I had in myhead was like all I'm gonna be
is like a picture to them andI'll just be like a story of
like their aunt that they had,that they didn't know.
They would have to tell peoplelike you know, oh it's because
she was murdered, you know.
(18:18):
Then, like I feel him get on topof me and I can tell that I can
tell that he's naked because,like I can, like I don't feel
any clothing on him.
Like the next thought I had waslike I was scared he was gonna
(18:41):
like rape me anally and likethat, like I was just so
terrified because, like I don'tengage in anal sex, like I have
never done that, and I'm justthinking like how painful this
was about to be, you know, andalso thought about how, when I
(19:05):
was a kid and my aunt'sboyfriend, you know, had
molested me, and I remember likesaying in my head too, like
such fucking bullshit, like I'vealready went through this, like
why, why, you know, and I'vebeen on like such a path of like
self-destruction since then and, you know, your lizard brain
just keeps telling you like tosurvive, you like do everything
you can to survive.
Like he finishes and he gets upand I try to like roll over so
I can also like cover up andhe's like no, no, stay there.
(19:26):
And again, like all of a suddenit's that big, like I'm gonna
die now because like he's gotwhat he wanted.
You know, clearly he's not hereto rob me and I just remember
thinking like, yeah, maybe Iwill just like stay here, like
laying on my stomach, because Idon't want to see him, I don't
want to watch him as I die.
Then I could hear like there wasa guest room like right next to
(19:46):
my bedroom and I could telllike he was going through that
room and there was like a minifridge in that room and I could
hear him like opening up a canof I think it was just beer in
that fridge and I could hearrustling sounds like he was
eating, like there was likechips and stuff in there and I
was just thinking like this isjust how, like you know, my mom
(20:07):
would say these terrible thingsand like physically abuse me and
then act like nothing was wrongand we'd all have dinner
together and I was like and thisman just did this to me and now
he's just like eating chips anddrinking a beer.
And then I can hear him comingback into the room.
He sits down in the desk chairor whatever.
He's like why don't you rollover?
Like let me look at your face,like I want to see how pretty
(20:28):
you are, and it was like maybe Ican talk my way out of this.
You know, like we can have aconversation and I can make it
go my way somehow, some way, andlike I sit up and you know, I
asked him, like do you needanything?
Like can I?
You know, like I have someextra clothes here too.
Like like I think you might,you might, fit in some of my
(20:49):
roommate's clothes.
I just assumed, like thebackpack he had, like maybe you
know, like he was homeless, likeand that's just what he was
carrying around, and I was likeyou know, and we have money, and
I was like it's not a lot,because I really need to go to
the grocery store.
So then I'm trying to covermyself up and he's like no, no,
no, I want to see you.
(21:10):
He has the knife in his handsitting there at the desk.
I'm sure he's making sure I cansee it.
And he's like you live herealone.
And I was like no, I live herewith my boyfriend and a couple
of his friends.
They went out tonight butthey're going to come home.
And he didn't flinch, like hedidn't, he didn't care.
He was like I used to go outwith my girl all the time, but
you know, we just broke up, likewe've been fighting, and we
(21:31):
just broke up.
I want to have a kid and she'snot ready to.
And I was like, yeah, well,maybe it's a good thing.
Then maybe you can findsomebody who wants kids.
And like I'm literally justtalking to fill the air, like
just talking and talking andtalking.
And he's like no, but like Iwanted her and you know I'm
gonna get her back.
I was like you know, maybe youcan show up and do something
nice for her, like flowers andstuff like that.
(21:52):
And he was like, well, should Ibrought you flowers you put out
and I didn't even bring you anyflowers like spread it open
right away for me and I didn'thave anything for you.
I have to play, play along,though.
And I'm like you know, I don'tknow a lot of people here in
town, like I haven't lived herefor very long, be nice to make
new friends here.
So I thought it might be a goodidea and like maybe we could
get to know each other afterthis.
Sluts always say stuff like thatoh no, I'm just looking for
(22:13):
friends, like you know.
And then next thing, you knowthey make really pretty babies
together.
And he's like how do you feelabout having a black baby?
Like would you like that?
And I was like you know, yeah,like I think they're beautiful,
Like black children arebeautiful.
And I was like but you know, Ireally don't want any kids Still
(22:35):
again, just like talking tofill the air.
And he starts like saying didyou lock all your doors tonight
before you went to bed?
And I didn't know, like Ithought I did.
And I was like I think I did.
And he was like how do youthink I got in here?
And I was like did I leave adoor unlocked?
And he was like well, I guessI'll let you figure it out the
whole time.
I'm just like fucking angrythat I have to be nice to him.
You know he stands back up andhe's like well, I guess you're
(23:04):
ready for round two.
And he's like this time, likewe're gonna make sure you finish
.
I have to just say whatever Ihave to say to get through this
night.
And I was like, oh yeah, like Ienjoyed it so much the first
time, I don't think we need todo it again.
And he's like, well, we'regoing to.
I roll back out, like lay downon the bed on my back, and then
I go to roll over and he's likeno, no, I want to watch you.
This time he like put his fullbody weight on me, like smushing
me, and it was just obviouslyit was like uncomfortable
because of the situation ingeneral, but just because of
(23:25):
like how heavy he was on top ofme and his breath was just it
was horrible.
It was like I don't know, itwas so awkward already, but then
even more awkward because ofhow he's just like smushing me.
I remember seeing his eyes acouple times, but even then it
was like it was so dark.
You know, know, there was nodistinguishing features, but he
was really really thin and likeprobably about as tall as me I'm
(23:45):
about five, five and like hesounded young and so I was just
like maybe he hasn't doneanything like this before and
like that's why, like this isjust so weird.
The whole time he had assaultedme like he wasn't using
protection or anything.
The whole time I'm laying thereI'm also just like thinking like
all of a sudden I'm gonna feelsomething sharp or I'm gonna
feel this like blow to my heador or just something.
(24:05):
But at some point he like triedto I'm on to me in a different
direction, like get a little bithigher up, and he like the
knife like stabbed me.
So I yelled out and immediatelyhe was like I'm sorry, I'm
sorry.
So then, like it's bleedingpretty good and I can feel the
blood running down my belly,like finally, like he gets up
and he realizes like you know, Iwas bleeding pretty good and
(24:26):
he's like here you can cleanyourself up a little bit.
What if we just get you in theshower?
Like we'll rinse you off, youknow, and that way we can keep
going and we keep having fun.
But I'm thinking like I want tobe as disgusting as possible,
maybe if and smelling andbleeding, like you'll leave, you
know, and.
But then I hear him like go intothe bathroom and turn on the
(24:47):
shower and like he puts me inthe shower.
He's like I need you to wash up, like you got blood everywhere
you need to wash up.
And he's like you're gonnastand in here till I tell you to
get out.
If you leave, if you try tomake a run for it, like I'll
kill you.
And he's like you know and Iknow where you live, like I can
go back whenever I want.
And so like, standing in thereand I'm washing and like I can't
hear anything at all, and Iturned on like the water a
(25:09):
little bit, so like the pressureis not so much, so I can hear a
little bit better, and I likealmost start to step out and
like I have one leg out of theshower, one leg in, and he pulls
me, like by my hair out of theshower and he like pulls my head
back and he holds the knife upto my neck and he said I will
kill you, I'm gonna fucking killyou.
(25:30):
And he said you're gonna standhere and you're gonna wash until
I tell you to get out.
I want to keep having fun withyou, don't you want to keep
having fun?
And I tell him, like you know,I'm sorry, like I'm for a towel
and he's like you know, thatdoesn't fucking matter, you're
gonna fucking listen to me.
The water had been turned down,you know a little bit, so, like
it wasn't as loud, I could hearthat he was like messing with
the sliding door in the livingroom and so I knew where he was
(25:52):
in the house and I knew thatlike I could, probably I could
go, and it was truly one ofthose things of like before I
knew I was doing it, I was doingdoing it, and I remember at
first, like coming out of theshower and I'm running, and I
just remember like thinking likeno, like I'm getting the fuck
out of this house, like I'm notgoing to get caught.
And then I rounded that cornerreally quick and went down three
(26:13):
more stairs and at this point,like I'm right at the front door
and immediately I see him likeat the top of the three stairs
and I have the front door, I'mjust about to get it open and it
and it is kind of like open,partially open, and he came up
like flying down the steps.
Like my adrenaline was just itwas pumping and I knew that like
if I don't leave now, like I'veupset him.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
He's already stabbed me, like he's already said he'll
raped me.
It is now or never.
And so, like he dove under thedoor and he got it closed a
little bit, but I don't knowthis, like superhuman strength
like just took over me.
It was like the adrenaline andthe fear and the gist of like
fuck you, like you are not goingto be why I don't live, this is
(27:00):
not going to be the end of mebecause of you, and I swing the
door open, but he's still likepushing his weight against it
and so like I still can't getout all the way, but I at least
have my knee in the door, buthe's still like I just hear this
like weird noise, like it waslike a growl, like I was just
this guttural of like, liketruly like a death metal scream
at him and I was right by hisface, like, and he was trying to
(27:23):
close the door and I'm tryingto get it open, and I was
screaming at him and I couldfeel like spit flying out of my
mouth onto his face and like Iand I like I think too like how
loud I was screaming, and thenthe fact that the door was
partially open did like make himpanic a little bit because he
did kind of release and it wasjust enough that I like got the
door all the way open and I ran.
(27:44):
And I like because I was in suchsurvival mode like I didn't
even know I mean, I knew I wasnaked but I didn't care.
I did not care and like Iwanted to stop immediately at my
next door neighbors, but I'mjust thinking like I was too
scared again to like look behindme to see if he's there.
So I was like I'll cross thestreet and go to like one of
those neighbors and just as I'mabout to do that, like I see
(28:05):
someone's car, dome light turnedon, and coincidentally, like
this was the only neighbor thatI actually knew and he was like
dome light was on in his car andhe's like half out of it and he
was looking at his phone and Ijust came running up to him and
I just said you gotta call 911.
You gotta call 911.
Yeah, he jumped immediatelyinto action.
He got out of his car and Imean like grabbed my hand and
(28:26):
literally like we just ran intohis house, like ran and like
immediately, like he's likeslamming against his door and he
locked it and I just sat on thestairs and like I just like I'm
sobbing.
I was just sobbing and sobbingand sobbing and this whole time,
like he's on the phone with 911and and the cops show up and
like there's like seven carsthat show up, you know it was a
(28:47):
shit ton of police.
The female officer is like I'mgonna, you know, take you to the
hospital and she's like why youget your rape exam done, why
you talk to the police and isthere anybody we can call?
I don't want to call myboyfriend because I'm like he's
dealing with his grandmother'sfuneral and at that point, like
my sister and I are very closenow, but at that time like we
weren't speaking and I wasn'ttalking to my parents, so it was
(29:08):
like I had nobody to call.
You know, it was like I wasalmost like embarrassed too,
because I was just like likenormal girls are like good
people, or good girls would havesomebody to call that care they
would have somebody to callthat care they would have, like
good parents or somebody thatshowed up for them.
But like how do you tell astranger like I don't talk to my
(29:31):
parents because they'reterrible people by the way, like
I'm a drug addict so I don'treally have friends and it was
just so embarrassing.
And so then I go to thehospital, I talk about
everything with them.
I like go over pretty much thewhole story.
The first thing the cop sayswas are you sure this isn't just
like a mad ex-boyfriend?
(29:51):
How do you there's no suchthing as like the perfect victim
but like theoretically, likethe kind of rape that I endured
is like the one in a million.
You know it's like sostatistically low and like I
would be like the quote-unquote.
You know it's like sostatistically low and like I
would be like the quote-unquoteperfect victim.
I didn't know this guy.
He broke into my home you knowI wasn't out, I wasn't drunk, I
wasn't wearing a bad outfit, Iwasn't being provocative, you
(30:14):
know what I mean.
Like I was in my own home and Iwas attacked, so like.
But even the quote-unquoteperfect victim still has to
endure questions like are yousure it wasn't just an ex, even
if it was like, is this stillnot horribly traumatic?
Am I worthy of your time,officer?
You know so I tell him like no,I didn't know this person.
He thinks that he was watchingme, at least for a couple days,
(30:34):
to know that nobody was going tobe there or that, you know he
could tell that I've been alonebecause he had me take the
shower.
They didn't get a comprehensivedna profile.
I mean they had, like theycheck everything you know and
like check your pubic region,and they didn't find anything
there, any hair that wasn't mine.
They said that could be alitany of things like he could
shave or could have just washedoff in the shower, but they
(30:55):
didn't find anything.
They had nothing like I meanthey asked all my neighbors if
they ever saw anything, anyweird behavior, any suspicious
cars.
Nobody really said anythingalong those lines that they'd
seen anything weird.
It was just like he literallydisappeared after he I mean
after like I was able to finallycome home where he cut me, like
I ended up meeting three and ahalf stitches, three stitches.
(31:16):
Like it wasn't a very bad, likebig wound and I like I said I
don't think he did mean to stabme, but like I had to have
surgery because when I had thelike stitches put in I don't
know, the skin was too taut andso I don't know it had caused
complications like in my bellybutton.
I know a lot of people meant sowell, but they were like I hope
that you know more time goes onbut you'll have less and less
(31:38):
things that trigger you and I'mjust like I have this daily.
This is a daily reminder that Ihave.
Like your body is the crimescene.
You know, it's been a long timesince I've like I did go to the
support group after and I metlike very lovely women there and
but there was nobody else whohad been like through a rape
like mine, like they which I'mnot saying that was any less
(31:58):
traumatic or anything like that,but they had all knew who their
attacker was.
So it was like that was alsokind of like isolating, I don't
know.
It also kind of made me aspectacle.
Like in the group they almostkind of said like oh well, what
you went through like makes mineseem like not that bad and it's
like I'm not like here for that, like I don't want to hear,
like I I'm here for like thecamaraderie or like the
understanding.
(32:18):
There you can win something.
This is not what I want to win,like I don't.
Right after that day, like I gotdrug free and like, oh my god,
my life turned around and I likebecame such a great person, but
it's a big thing like addictswill have like a you know like a
rock bottom moment or something, and it was like I had so many
of those.
It was just like the finalculmination of so many of them.
(32:40):
I had lost a lot of friendsbecause I'd stolen from them,
like either drugs, or I'd stolenfrom their parents or, and it
was just like a suddenrealization of like I will just
keep losing people, you know,and like I don't have family to
fall back on.
Like I need these people that Ilike have made my family, you
know.
And I went to rehab immediately.
I remember like the first orsecond day of like therapy.
(33:01):
Like I went to rehabimmediately.
I remember like the first orsecond day of like therapy like
you have you have group therapy,but then like the one-on-one
therapy, and they were just likeyou know what are some of the
issues that you think caused youto use drugs.
I was like, where do we startand how much time do you got?
Getting clean obviously was abig help in terms of like making
peace with everything thathappened to me.
But I think, more than anythingwas like I used to be so
(33:25):
obsessed with this idea of likeI was gonna find him, like I was
gonna figure out who did it.
I don't know how I was gonna dothat, but I don't know I would
remember some event from thatnight.
I would something would come tomind where maybe I'd remember
his face now or something youknow, and I was just literally
consumed by this and I don'tknow.
It was more like nobody evertried to like talk me out of
that, like everybody was veryunderstanding, like I don't know
(33:45):
what peace feels like and Idon't know if I've ever known
what that feels like and I waslike but I fucking better, like
I'm 26 and I can't keep goingthrough life like this and I
can't.
I'm miserable all the time, youknow.
So it was like a mixture of therehab, the cultivating better
friendships, making, makingamends, through all the shitty
(34:07):
things I'd done.
But also I had to get veryhonest with a lot of people in
my life.
I had to tell my sister thehorrible things that had
happened to me.
And the night that I told mysister like hey, this happened.
And then, you know also,ariane's boyfriend did this to
me.
Like I told her everything.
That was like the first night.
I slept unmedicated and I don'tuse sleeping medications now,
(34:27):
like I've never had to thank God, but like since then, but it
was just like the freedom, therelease of, like I don't carry
this anymore, like I refuse tolike be a shelter for like men's
shame and men's embarrassmentand men's shitty manage, like
stress management and emotionalskills, and like I just am not
(34:49):
gonna do it anymore.
And I was just thinking of,like you know, if a friend had
told me they went through this,like what would I tell them?
I would tell them, like thisisn't your burden to carry
anymore.
Like I can, I can let it go orI can be dragged around by this
forever.
And it was.
I just didn't want to do itanymore.
Like this happened to me.
I know it did, whether youbelieve it or not, and I don't
(35:10):
carry around men's shame anymore.
My body's not a crime sceneanymore, it's my home.
When I think of him, I don'teven think of like there was a
scary man out there that rapedme.
It's.
I think of like how old was he?
You know?
I think of did his friendsthink he's funny?
Like did he have pets?
Like, was he a libra?
(35:32):
Like is he what's his favoritefood?
Like I don't and I don't knowwhy.
Those are the thoughts that Ihave, but it's like before he
was just this.
Like like enigma, this darkcloud.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
No, you know, you remember and recall in such
detail about what had happenedto you in that time.
It seemed like he was a bitdeluded in his own head, and the
way he perceived the wholesituation where he himself may
have not seen it as rape butrather as a consensual thing,
the way he was addressing women,like you know, maybe it had
something to do with hischildhood, maybe it had
something to do with the thingsthat led up to him doing that as
(36:08):
well, right, and so maybe to anextent somewhat humanizing it
or knowing a little bit thatthere was somewhat of a reason.
Again, it doesn't make it anybetter, but it kind of humanizes
, like it, you know it.
What are your thoughts, though,on things like on the concept
of like forgiveness?
Do you feel like it's importantto forgive?
(36:29):
Do you feel like you'veforgiven him?
I?
Speaker 1 (36:32):
I haven't forgiven him because there has been no
sorry, there has been no right,like uh, no attempt to fix what
he did.
But then, at the same time,like I've had thoughts, just
like what you said, like, did hethink that somehow this was an
encounter that I enjoyed?
Like I don't, I don't need toforgive him to be whole or to
feel whole from it.
I don't think about it everyday and I don't think I mean, I
(36:53):
guess I think about it every day, but I don't think about it in
a way of like god, I hope he'ssuffering, I hope he's miserable
.
So, like you're not, holding onto the anger aspect of it
anymore, but like you haven'tforgiven him, but that doesn't
mean that you're holding on tothat anger and letting it drive
you no not anymore if I like wasto ever get the chance to like
talk to him, I'd want him toknow that, like I don't know, I
(37:14):
guess I want him to know like Idon't think about you, like I
obviously like I do, because youwill right, like it's a human
thing, but like I refuse to letyou, and like how you terrified
me take up any more than my lifelike yeah, I don't think about
you and I can only imagine thatlike how sad and lonely your
(37:35):
life must be because, like happy, healthy people like don't do
that, you know, and I was onlike one hell of a path of
self-destruction, like when youassaulted me.
I know how much I hated myselfthen.
I can only imagine how muchhate you have to have to commit
an act like this, that it's likeI did so many terrible things
and like in addiction.
(37:56):
I would never want somebody tojudge me like based on the worst
thing I ever did, but also likethe worst thing I ever did was
like steal from my dad.
Speaker 2 (38:05):
It wasn't right, it wasn't rape somebody.
You know what I mean, soexactly I don't know.
I guess I go back and forth onthat and also it's, at the end
of the day, like we're.
We are humans.
So how do we know and how do wejudge?
Right?
I guess it's like you know,having a court system, having
laws in place, those, those are,like you know, they really
create this ultimate judgment onhuman behavior.
(38:26):
But the truth is, do we havethat power, do we have that
right to make that judgmentabout other people?
I always feel like the more wehear a person's story, we
understand where they come from.
Not that it makes their actsworse, but it just makes it a
little bit more understandable.
That doesn't give anyone aright to violate someone or take
away someone else's right totheir own lives, but it kind of
(38:47):
puts things into certainperspective.
For a moment.
You can stop and be like thisis a result of, you know,
something really dark in theirown personal lives.
And, yes, ideally they wouldhave had the resources to go to
therapy, they would have had theresources to learn how to cope
with it in healthy ways.
But hey, we don't live in thatworld.
Therapy is expensive.
Speaker 1 (39:08):
I guess the biggest thing I feel now, after talking
to you about it all, is like I'mso proud of where I'm at now
because I didn't think I'd stillbe alive.
Speaker 3 (39:18):
I didn't think I'd live through that night.
Speaker 1 (39:19):
I didn't think I'd live through my addiction.
I didn't think I'd live throughthat night.
(39:44):
I didn't think I'd live throughmy addiction.
I didn't think I would do somany things.
And now it's like I have agreat community of people around
me, like I'm I've met peoplefrom all walks of life and like
I don't know.
I'm just proud of that becauseI I'm not sure if I would have
been able to do that kind ofwork unless I did that kind of
work for myself for yourself andshowed myself that same kind of
compassion yeah, yeah
Speaker 2 (40:00):
jamie, thank you so much for sharing your your story
and you know your experience insuch detail.
I really appreciate you beinghere and sharing the whole story
with us.
I genuinely believe that themore we believe that we deserve
good, the more we do actuallybring that, and here you are
standing today in such apositive sort of spirit.
(40:21):
So, yeah, I really reallyappreciate you sort of for doing
this with me thank you forletting me talk about all of it
and going through everything.
Speaker 1 (40:29):
I like I found so much purpose in helping other
people go through what I wentthrough and even just like
helping people in general likeis really what saved me I love
that I love that.
Speaker 2 (40:38):
That's so sweet, jenny.
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (40:41):
I really enjoyed talking to you, though I really
did.
Speaker 3 (40:48):
If you enjoyed the episode and would like to help
support the show, please followand subscribe.
You can rate and review yourfeedback on any of our platforms
listed in the description.
I'd like to recognize ourguests who are vulnerable and
open to share their lifeexperiences with us.
Thank you for showing us we'rehuman.
Also, a thank you to our teamwho worked so hard behind the
scenes to make it happen.
(41:08):
Stefan Menzel, Lucas Piri theshow would be nothing without
you.
I'm Jenica, host and writer ofthe show, and you're listening
to Multispective perspective.
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