What if the truth behind a young man's tragic death was buried beneath layers of inconsistencies and unanswered questions? This week, we explore the mysterious case of Nathen Magallanes , a promising 21-year-old from Foley, Alabama, whose life was abruptly ended in September 2017 under circumstances that still spark doubt and suspicion. Nathen's mother, Jamie, and grandmother, Rhonda, share their emotional journey as they recount the events leading to his disappearance and the devastating discovery that followed. By listening to their heartfelt narratives, you'll gain insight into Nathen's life, his job, and his budding relationship—all of which were tragically interrupted.
Listeners will be taken through the troubling details of Nathen's death, from the peculiar handling of evidence by authorities to the numerous inconsistencies that Jamie and Rhonda believe were overlooked. The family’s relentless pursuit of the truth is palpable as they discuss the frustrations of dealing with premature conclusions by law enforcement, including the suspicious destruction of Nathen's vehicle and the locked state of his phone when returned. Their story vividly illustrates the emotional toll this ordeal has taken on them and emphasizes the barriers they've faced in seeking clarity and justice.
In a poignant closing, Jamie and Rhonda share their continued struggle for answers, expressing disbelief at the authorities' dismissal of their concerns and the resilience they’ve had to muster in their pursuit of truth. They offer advice to others in similar predicaments: remain steadfast in seeking answers, cherish your loved ones, and find strength in prayer. Join us as we shed light on this unresolved case, hoping to bring the closure that Nathen’s family so desperately seeks.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello and welcome to episode number two of the Murder
in your Backyard podcast.
If you enjoyed last week'sepisode of the Popeye story, I
appreciate you tuning in againthis week.
If you're new here, thank youalso for tuning in.
Please subscribe to the podcastand I'd appreciate a review
from any and all of you.
Now I imagine not hearing fromyour child for three days and
actually going out to look forthem, only to receive a call
(00:21):
that they're found dead.
That happened in Foley, alabama, on September 19th of 2017.
A 21-year-old boy went missing.
His body was later foundoutside of his workplace under a
variety of strangecircumstances and ruled a
suicide.
Today, I'll be speaking withhis mother and grandmother about
the events leading up to hisdeath and what they have been
(00:42):
told and hopefully revisit thisstory to unfold and hopefully
find a new resolve to this case.
So, jamie, your son, nathan,can you just tell me a little
bit about his life?
To begin with, Okay, that'sfine.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Nathan and I moved to Alabama in 2018.
He came to join me.
I was already living there andhis little life was going on
track.
He, he got a job.
He was getting his own place.
Um, we had a car that he droveto work back and forth.
Um, and he met a little girlthat he worked with.
(01:14):
She was pregnant and and he waseven there with her when she
had her baby.
His little life was going goodfor once.
He, he was on track and he wasvery responsible, very
responsible child, very good boy.
But, um, all of it come to ahalt unexpectedly on the date of
(01:36):
september 19th.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
You said you lost contact with him.
Did he work that day or was hescheduled for work on that day?
Speaker 2 (01:41):
no, he was off that day and he was off the 20th.
He went in on the 19th to checkhis schedule, sergeant told me,
and they have video recordingof him doing that.
So that's less than anybodyheard of him.
I lost contact with him on the19th around three o'clock in the
(02:06):
afternoon and after that Icontinued.
I was worried immediatelybecause we always stayed in
contact with one another, and onthe 20th, all night long I
couldn't get a hold of him, andduring that day I couldn't get a
hold of him either.
I don't know why.
They called me because he wassupposed to be off work, but
(02:27):
they called me and said that hemissed it.
But he told me that he was offthat day.
And so as soon as I couldn'tget a hold of him, I immediately
started searching for him.
I drove by, of course,mcdonald's where he worked.
I mean, I would have recognizedmy car there.
It wasn't there.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
And, rhonda, did you have any contact with Nathan at
this time?
No, I did not.
I talked to him maybe the daybefore the 19th and then that
was it, and the only thing thatI had gotten was during the time
(03:12):
that they had, I guess, foundhim.
I got a call from his phone andevidently it took almost a year
to get an answer for this, butevidently one of the detectives
had gotten on his phone and gothis password somehow and they
called me and I live inCalifornia and I have.
I was scared.
I thought maybe you know thatit was him and something was
(03:37):
happening to him, and he calledme.
But then later I was told toknow it was the detective.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
So that was the last time you ever heard anything
from him as far as his phone oranything, correct?
Speaker 3 (03:46):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
And Jamie.
When Nathan's body was actuallydiscovered inside of the car,
there was a live Facebook newscrew that was called to the
scene, which showed some of thecops working investigators
working in the corner coming tothe scene.
Is that when you found outabout your son's body, or were
you contacted at any other timeafter that?
Speaker 2 (04:05):
no, I seen the um.
Well, actually they posted iton facebook.
The whole situation before Iwas even contacted.
I was at work when I got thephone call and that was the
officers that gave you the phonecall yeah, the detectives, and
they told me they asked me tomeet them somewhere and I
stopped immediately because Iknew something was wrong.
(04:26):
I hadn't been in contact withNathan for two days, couldn't
find him.
I had already called all thehospitals.
I mean I searched for him.
But I met them at a cornerstore somewhere and they
informed me that they found myson and he had been shot in the
head and that it was suicide.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
And now I know the detectives had told you that
your son had been inside of thatcar for three days and you said
you went to the McDonald's onthe 19th and you also went on
the 20th.
Did you make your way downthere on the date of the 21st?
Speaker 2 (04:56):
No, I didn't go on the 21st.
I went to work but I waswaiting, you know, for his phone
call Immediately.
I was going to go searching forhim after work again, but, um,
yeah, they told me that um,actually they didn't tell me
this.
There was on the Facebook pagea post on the video.
It said that, um, when theyreported the car being somewhat
(05:17):
suspicious outside in theMcDonald's parking lot, that it
had been parked there for twodays, and, um, I beg to differ
because I I looked for him thereand I know what my own car
looks like and they found him.
They found him parked in theonly parking spot that there was
no video, um camera footage,which was kind of weird,
(05:37):
especially since they knew whathis car looked like and if it
did right, he worked there.
Speaker 3 (05:44):
Yeah, and if he'd been there for two days they
would have known it.
Why did it take you know thatlong to go check that car?
Speaker 1 (05:51):
well, the investigators told you that the
car had been there for threedays, but from the videos and
pictures that I've seen, you canclearly tell that the car is
draped in mud on the tires.
Yeah, did the cops give you anykind of information on that?
Speaker 2 (06:03):
I do.
I have it all on video.
I recorded all of ourconversations with all of the
detectives and sergeants, butthey would not give me any
answers.
They told me I had to subpoenathem for any information, which
was completely impossible.
I tried there's a routine thatyou have to take to get that
accomplished and none of theattorneys would take my case,
(06:26):
they told me, because they justflat out didn't want to.
So the only information aboutthe car that I can give you is
that I've seen that in thevideos and the tires were
completely caked in mud.
That car didn't travel therevery far, if it traveled at all,
because there would have beenbrakes in the tires I mean in
the mud on the tires and theydidn't recover the keys with the
(06:48):
car either.
The keys were missing.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
And next there was a guy parked across from the
McDonald's, directly in front ofthe parking spot where your
son's car would have been.
He was the son of the owner ofthe building, correct?
Speaker 2 (06:59):
That's correct.
I don't know if I can say anynames, but that's correct.
He reached out to me actuallyon on messenger and then I, I, I
missed the call so I reachedback out to him.
I don't know if um that'shelpful, but he, I asked him
about it and he said Jamie.
He said um, I, I, I drive alifted truck and they asked me
(07:20):
to move my truck so they couldtarp his car.
And um, and I didn't see hiscar there this morning.
I would have seen it when I gotinto my car to grab my wallet
out of the car to go eat lunch.
He's like cause I got in thecar and was on my phone for a
little while.
He said I would have seen rightdown inside your son's car.
I would have noticed.
So that verifies to me thatthat car was not there for any
(07:45):
amount of time.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
And Rhonda, how were you told about the death of your
grandson?
Speaker 3 (07:50):
I found out.
Jamie called me.
She was at the police stationand she called me, and that's
how I found out about it.
It was completely out of thenature for him to do anything
like this, especially somewherewhere there might be children
around.
Yeah, and see it, he wasn't.
He was a very private person.
(08:10):
He was.
Yeah, he wouldn't have donethis.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
And to my understanding there was
supposedly a suicide note left.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
Supposedly, and you know, and in the note it said,
he had written supposedly thatone of the things was that he
had to get a bottle to do this.
But they found no bottle,nowhere in the car, around the
car, nowhere, nowhere.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
Um it's just, it wasn't his handwriting either.
And I, I put that through tothe sergeant and he said that,
um, what did he tell you, mom?
Oh, because I wouldn't get anyinformation at all.
They wouldn't, they wouldn'ttalk to me, they completely,
completely ignored any of myphone calls.
Um, they treated me like asuspect.
(09:02):
Actually, um, and I wasn'tcouldn't get any information on
my son or about my son, aboutwhat happened.
Um, they told my mom, my momcould tell you that the
handwriting changes whensomeone's in distress, that the
handwriting could change.
That was all that they told us.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
I could understand if someone was really stressed out
or going through that and theirhandwriting changes just a bit.
But you, having lived with thatperson, you know if that's
their handwriting or not.
You can distinctly look at thathandwriting and tell if it's
theirs.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
Well, of course, it took me two months even to get
the permission for them torelease these letters to me too.
They weren't even going to letme have them.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
And I don't understand how come there was a
what was it?
Inquest or what that was allabout, when we knew nothing
about any of that.
You know we could have appearedor we could have been there, we
would have liked to known.
You know what the outcome ofthat was, but we were told
nothing, nothing at all.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
Yeah, and when I called about the grand jury
indictment I had to wait twoweeks to speak to a special
person, the head over there.
They were awaiting my phonecall.
All they could tell me if itwas a true bill or a no bill.
They wouldn't give me anyinformation about my son's case,
which I was informed.
Sergeant told me that that wasthe only way that I could get
(10:25):
this information was from them.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
They would be happy to tell me, but they were pulled
to me and wouldn't tell meanything either now I did get to
see a copy of the autopsyreport and nathan's one wound
showed that his trajectory wentfrom right to left.
Was he right-handed?
Speaker 2 (10:42):
right.
My son was left-handed and theum, the entrance wound was right
to left and if my, my son, wasgoing to hold, I know that you
know the kick.
I don't know about all that,but I know that my son uses his
left hand.
It was his dominant hand.
He would have used it in thissituation, I'm sure.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
I mean I know it has happened before, but it seems
like nine times out of 10someone would use their dominant
hand.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
It just doesn't make any sense Right, you're right,
you're right, right.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
And they, like I said , it took a long time to get any
information at all and theywere actually quite cold.
They even told my mom that if Ididn't back off that they could
charge me with his deathbecause of some law in Alabama
about knowing if someone knowsthat someone's going to commit
suicide or they push them intoit, that they could charge that
(11:37):
person with a death.
So they even threatened me toback off.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
And did they ever test Nathan's hands for gunshot
residue, and if not, then why?
Speaker 2 (11:46):
Mom, I'll let you answer this.
Speaker 3 (11:48):
No, no, because they said in the state of Alabama
they don't do that and when theyit's autopsy, they have him
down as a white male.
Well, Nathan, he was halfMexican and he was dark
(12:08):
complected.
They said he had no scars.
No, he had a hernia, Doublehernia.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
Yes, but it was double hernia.
Yeah, the autopsy was notcorrect either, they said.
And I mean, yeah, that wasn'tdone correctly either.
And when I filed for a secondcopy of it, it says on the front
page that certain parts wereredacted for certain reasons.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
And that day, on that video there seemed to be a lot
of officers or detectives orinvestigators on scene.
Were you told about how many ofthem thought this was a suicide
?
Speaker 2 (12:43):
Well, I have him recorded, mind you, Sergeant
Detective, stating to my momthat there was a good 14 people
and a majority of them said thatit agreed with him that it was
suicide, but not all of them.
And I have everything recorded.
Speaker 3 (13:02):
But yeah, so, and there is, there is in the report
.
There is no bullet they foundno, you know, they didn't find
bullet because it did exitNothing.
I mean there, there.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
It took a total of 32 minutes on the police report.
32 minutes for them to do thiswhole investigation, which means
is, I guess they found the noteand they just chalked it off as
suicide.
They did no investigation, theytalked to nobody, they didn't
take any witness statements,they didn't do anything at all,
nothing.
32 minutes for theinvestigation.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
I'm sorry, Rhonda, did you have something else to
say?
Speaker 3 (13:55):
something else to say .
Well, um, nathan, he, he wasnot that type of a person to do
any.
If nathan was to do, I feel, ifhe was to do something like
this, he would have went off andlet the alligators get him and
nobody know where he went.
You know what I'm saying?
Speaker 2 (14:04):
that this was this was not him, yeah, he would
never have done it at work likethat, in in like that.
He just wouldn't have done thatlike that.
Speaker 3 (14:14):
And on Facebook comments and stuff.
There are so many people thatcommented well, we were just
there this morning and we didn'tsee anything.
And you know, oh my gosh, weate there and nobody you know,
nobody in the comments had seenthe car there either.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
That car wasn't there .
I searched for him.
I searched and that car was notthere.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
And you said that vehicle was burned in training
three days later by the police.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
It was a fire exercise.
They just burned the car threedays later, so there was no
investigation at all, at all atall and what about nathan's body
?
Speaker 1 (14:55):
did they say we're going to do an investigation or
we're going to look at this orlook at that, or did they give
you any kind of indication ofwhich way to go?
Speaker 2 (15:04):
well, at that time my mind was a little foggy, so,
but I don't remember them evenasking me to identify the body.
I mean they could have, theycould have, but I don't even
remember them doing that.
On the paperwork, on theautopsy paperwork, um, it states
that he was identified by oneof the paramedic drivers and by
(15:24):
his license in his wallet.
And also, um, they got into hisphone, but I was.
When they gave it to me and Itook it to specialists, the
bootloader was locked.
It was impossible to break thisto get into this phone.
So somebody I mean they were init, the officers, the
authorities were in it, but whenthey handed it over to me it
(15:47):
was impossible to break and getinto.
So I couldn't retrieve any ofthe information on it the phone
call that I had gotten.
Speaker 3 (15:56):
They said that they had made to me my phone
connected for 17 minutes.
My phone never rang.
I never knew I got that call atall.
It was strange.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
The whole thing was strange, but there were comments
made.
There was a Bobby Douglas, I dobelieve, and a few other
comments made that he went intothe McDonald's.
I mean, this was probably justhearsay, but I like this is what
I'm asking the community If youguys have any information at
(16:28):
all about my son in those twodays 19th or the 20th, 21st.
Anything at all would behelpful.
Um, they said that he was atthe mcdonald's waving a gun
around and all these things.
I mean we can post all thecomments, maybe, joseph, but, um
, you know, and I know thatpeople would like to talk about
(16:48):
certain things and have nonothing to back it up, but if,
if the community knows anythingabout my son's whereabouts or
spoke with them or anything atall, I'd like you know someone
to come forth.
That would help a lot.
It would bring me a little bitof closure.
That's what I'm asking I'mhoping, jamie.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
I was able to hear some of the recordings between
you and a few of the mcdonald'sworkers, which names I cannot
reveal, but the workers weretold not to address the public
or get involved in any kind ofway.
Were you able to find out anymore information or gain any
access to anything new throughthose recordings?
Speaker 2 (17:21):
No, sir, I was not, they wouldn't even.
I contacted the McDonald'safter because I was going to put
up some kind of memorial atthat spot and they, they told me
no, and I, and I understandkind of, because it's a place of
business, but, um, they werevery cold and um, and they put
up a cement slab and threw atrash can on it.
(17:41):
It was the only and the parkingspot that he was in.
Let me change the subject butum had no video footage of it.
Um, it was parked.
It was the parking still rightthere by the, by the main
entrance door and where thedrive through would have backed
up when they were waiting atlunchtime.
You know what I mean.
So I mean people would havebeen parked staring at that car
(18:04):
and at nighttime because Ipicked up my son many nights
after work at nighttime that wasthe door that they exited out
of.
So all of the workers and themanager exits out that door and
my son's car would have been theonly car parked there in the
parking lot for those two dayswhen they closed.
I don't see how, if that carwas somewhat suspicious and why
they recorded it on the 21st.
(18:24):
I mean that kind of raises someawareness.
I mean, there was a few points.
Speaker 3 (18:31):
Evidently one of the workers had informed the other
worker to go check his car Right.
Well, all of a sudden it wasthere.
Why, you know?
I don't understand how come.
If it was there two days, whydidn't they check it before that
?
Speaker 1 (18:46):
Yeah, the employees would have seen the car there
every night as they exited therestaurant.
That doesn't make any sense.
Speaker 3 (18:52):
Right.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
Exactly, and there was a bullet hole in the back
window.
The window was shattered.
Speaker 3 (18:58):
I mean, yes, nobody had seen nothing, nobody had
heard nothing.
There was no report about wherethe bullet had went to that
exited the window.
Nothing, nothing.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
Do you know if they found any bullet casings inside
of the vehicle?
Speaker 2 (19:15):
They didn't search at all, no kind of investigation.
And even if I did ask thatquestion they would not answer
it.
They completely justblackballed me.
They wouldn't have anything todo with me.
They told my mom that I that Iyou know called them inept and
and I and I was pushing my luck.
(19:35):
I wasn't.
But the only reason I startedgetting pushy and rude was I
think it was about a year and ahalf to almost two years later
when I still didn't have anyanswers.
The only thing they told me washe was wearing the same socks
that he had on when he went into check his schedule on the
19th.
Speaker 3 (19:55):
And on that day, the last day that he supposedly
worked, I had his, where theychecked in and out, you know,
and he checked in for work thatday and he checked out for lunch
that day, but there is no, no,um back in after lunch or no,
(20:15):
back back in after you know.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
No, after work or anything and what day was that
on?
Speaker 3 (20:25):
that that that was the 19th did he work on the 19th
?
Speaker 2 (20:30):
he didn't that on the 19th?
Speaker 3 (20:31):
He didn't that was the 18th, wasn't it?
Yeah, they said that he went inand ate that evening, remember.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
Yeah, that was the 18th.
But yeah, and he checked hisschedule and he was off the 19th
and 20th.
That's what our communicationwas.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
It seems to me as though the police department
wouldn't be as cold that theywould allow you to dig or ask
questions.
As a mother or grandmother orfather or uncle, anyone inside
of that family circle should beallowed to ask questions and
come a little deeper into thecrime and ask what's going on
rather than getting mad about it.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
And there's quite a bit of crime there in Foley,
alabama in that area.
He wasn't the only one you knowthat was found.
Bodies are found there quiteoften.
It's sad.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
Yeah, and nobody there.
The only thing that came out ofmcdonald's that was anything at
all was the video that one ofthe workers had posted of the
car with the doors open, and allthat, and that was before they
even put the tarpaulin yeah, andthe doors were wide open and
you can clearly see my soninside and that was recorded by
(21:49):
one of the mcdonald's workers,or it was recorded by the news
crew.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
That came through facebook there's's two videos
online.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
One was the short video that the McDonald's worker
posted, and then Debbie postedher newscast on there.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
And you said you hired a private investigator but
at some point they gave yourmoney back and told you that
they could no longer be involvedin the case.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
You remember that, mama?
I hired that privateinvestigator and she was gung-ho
about the whole situation.
I mean, she just couldn'tunderstand the way that it was
conducted at all.
And then two weeks later shereturned my money and told me
that she had a family emergency,that she was sorry she couldn't
help me.
Speaker 3 (22:25):
That's right, that's right, so that's right.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
And, in your opinion, what do you think the reason
for that back out was?
Do you think they were paid offor stumbled across something
they didn't want to deal with?
Speaker 2 (22:36):
The Alabama authorities handle things the
good old boy way.
You know what I mean.
They don't conduct themselveslike all other states do.
If they don't want to tell youanything, they're not going to
tell you anything.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
And if something wasn't right about this or if
they feel like they didn't dotheir job right, um, you aren't
going to get any answers.
So you feel, overall, it wasseen as it's just suicide, shut
it down.
Speaker 3 (23:01):
We have other stuff to do and that's it it's just
completely out of his nature todo something like that,
somewhere where a child couldhave came upon him my son
wouldn't have done that at all,anyways, I mean, his little life
was going on track, you know,he had things.
He had money in the bank, hehad gas in his car, he had a job
.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
I mean he was actually starting his little
life.
I mean it was completelydifferent than where we moved
from and you know, the officersdidn't take any kind of no
statements from anybody.
They just did not do their job.
They didn't, they didn't.
And then when I tried to askquestions they couldn't answer
it.
I think they just found thatnote and chalked it off as
(23:44):
suicide and then just closed theinvestigation.
It took them 30 minutes just towait for the coroner to arrive,
that's it.
Speaker 3 (23:52):
That's all they did when I asked to speak to the
detective that had called me,that had gotten in his phone and
then called me um well, he nolonger worked there, so we
couldn't talk to him either soand yeah, and like, like you
mentioned that that day had toldthe girls at mcdonald's, you
know, not to not to deal withpublic, not to deal with that.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
Yeah, they shut down the McDonald's that day and told
them not to answer the phones,not to answer any questions.
And the manager that workedthere for like eight years was
one of Nathan's friends.
He quit that very next day andI couldn't find him locate him
at all.
Friends, he quit that very nextday and I couldn't find him
locate him at all.
Um, they moved one of the otherI won't say any names, I'm
(24:36):
sorry.
They moved one of the othermanagers.
Um, that was a little talkative.
They moved her to a completelydifferent McDonald's about.
Well, I don't know how farFoley is from Orange Beach, but
they moved her to the OrangeBeach McDonald's.
Speaker 3 (24:49):
Um, and then I couldn't get any answers from
anybody after that at that pointit just so happened that they
say that the thought that nathanwas in, that their cameras did
not record.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
They recorded everything in the parking lot up
until that point right and Ipicked up after that parking
spot, they said there was no um.
When I asked for footage abouthim coming in driving into the
mcdonald's, um, uh, they didn'trecord that and you know, the
officers didn't roll back any ofthis video footage themselves.
(25:24):
They asked to do it and emailit to them.
So I mean she could havechanged anything.
I mean anything could have beenchanged or altered.
At that point.
I mean they didn't.
They just didn't handle thiscase appropriately.
Yes, that's right, right, andleft me completely in the dark.
I mean completely in the darkand with all these other
(25:45):
questions coming up on Facebookabout about him being there and
what he was doing.
And this gentleman said that hespoke with the McDonald's
workers that night.
I mean he was in detail aboutall of these comments and all of
these things coming up.
I mean I had questions for theofficers.
You know I mean lots ofquestions and still to this day
(26:09):
I can't get any information ofquestions and still, to this day
, I can't get any information.
Speaker 3 (26:16):
It seems like authorities would be not
sympathetic, or however you wantto describe it.
Um, to a mother, they, theyblew her off, like she said,
like, like she, you know, hadsomething to do with it or she
knew that he was going to dothis, and this is how they came
back on Jamie.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
Do you guys feel like there may have been someone out
there to get him or hurt him,or do you feel like there was
any indication that there couldhave been?
Speaker 2 (26:47):
No, he didn't get along with the prior gentleman
that I was living with, but myson was a very likable person,
very, very good boy.
Very good boy, I mean he stayedto himself, he was very private
, but he was a very good boy.
I mean he wouldn't have had anyenemies at all.
(27:09):
Mama, would he?
No, he wouldn't have had anyenemies at all, mama, would he?
Speaker 3 (27:12):
No, he, he went, he did for others before he would
do for himself.
And and he, he would have knownhow this would have made us
feel and he would have never putus through this, never put us
through this, never put usthrough this.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
You know, I'm not I'm .
I'm just.
What I'm wanting is a littlebit of closure here.
That's why I reached out to you, joseph.
Um, I just want a little bitmore information, if not from
the authorities, um, you know,from from anybody, if they, if
they know you know or heardanything, maybe it could lead me
to something else.
(27:55):
I mean, any kind of closurewould help, joseph, on this
matter.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
If you had a chance to speak to anyone else who was
struggling with feelings ofgrief or pain in which you
endure, what words would you sayto them?
Speaker 3 (28:19):
say to them I I would tell them that to be very
persistent, um, do not back off.
If you have questions, askquestions, um, and keep your
loved ones close to you.
Keep them close i'm'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
Okay, and I totally avoided that question.
I'm sorry, but it always helpsto pray and turn to God, you
know, in times like this,because that's all I had to lean
on.
I was angry with him at first,but just to pray and keep your
heart open to him.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
Well, I just want to tell you, ladies, both thank you
so much for being on the show,thank you for answering all my
questions and hopefully we'llget this passed around and
someone will come forward andgive us some answers.
Speaker 3 (29:03):
Thank you, joseph, I want to thank you, joseph, for
this.
Thank you very much.
You have been a godsend, thankyou.
Hello and welcome to episode number two of the Murder
in your Backyard podcast.
If you enjoyed last week'sepisode of the Popeye story, I
appreciate you tuning in againthis week.
If you're new here, thank youalso for tuning in.
Please subscribe to the podcastand I'd appreciate a review
from any and all of you.
Now I imagine not hearing fromyour child for three days and
actually going out to look forthem, only to receive a call
(00:21):
that they're found dead.
That happened in Foley, alabama, on September 19th of 2017.
A 21-year-old boy went missing.
His body was later foundoutside of his workplace under a
variety of strangecircumstances and ruled a
suicide.
Today, I'll be speaking withhis mother and grandmother about
the events leading up to hisdeath and what they have been
(00:42):
told and hopefully revisit thisstory to unfold and hopefully
find a new resolve to this case.
So, jamie, your son, nathan,can you just tell me a little
bit about his life?
To begin with, Okay, that'sfine.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Nathan and I moved to Alabama in 2018.
He came to join me.
I was already living there andhis little life was going on
track.
He, he got a job.
He was getting his own place.
Um, we had a car that he droveto work back and forth.
Um, and he met a little girlthat he worked with.
(01:14):
She was pregnant and and he waseven there with her when she
had her baby.
His little life was going goodfor once.
He, he was on track and he wasvery responsible, very
responsible child, very good boy.
But, um, all of it come to ahalt unexpectedly on the date of
(01:36):
september 19th.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
You said you lost contact with him.
Did he work that day or was hescheduled for work on that day?
Speaker 2 (01:41):
no, he was off that day and he was off the 20th.
He went in on the 19th to checkhis schedule, sergeant told me,
and they have video recordingof him doing that.
So that's less than anybodyheard of him.
I lost contact with him on the19th around three o'clock in the
(02:06):
afternoon and after that Icontinued.
I was worried immediatelybecause we always stayed in
contact with one another, and onthe 20th, all night long I
couldn't get a hold of him, andduring that day I couldn't get a
hold of him either.
I don't know why.
They called me because he wassupposed to be off work, but
(02:27):
they called me and said that hemissed it.
But he told me that he was offthat day.
And so as soon as I couldn'tget a hold of him, I immediately
started searching for him.
I drove by, of course,mcdonald's where he worked.
I mean, I would have recognizedmy car there.
It wasn't there.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
And, rhonda, did you have any contact with Nathan at
this time?
No, I did not.
I talked to him maybe the daybefore the 19th and then that
was it, and the only thing thatI had gotten was during the time
(03:12):
that they had, I guess, foundhim.
I got a call from his phone andevidently it took almost a year
to get an answer for this, butevidently one of the detectives
had gotten on his phone and gothis password somehow and they
called me and I live inCalifornia and I have.
I was scared.
I thought maybe you know thatit was him and something was
(03:37):
happening to him, and he calledme.
But then later I was told toknow it was the detective.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
So that was the last time you ever heard anything
from him as far as his phone oranything, correct?
Speaker 3 (03:46):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
And Jamie.
When Nathan's body was actuallydiscovered inside of the car,
there was a live Facebook newscrew that was called to the
scene, which showed some of thecops working investigators
working in the corner coming tothe scene.
Is that when you found outabout your son's body, or were
you contacted at any other timeafter that?
Speaker 2 (04:05):
no, I seen the um.
Well, actually they posted iton facebook.
The whole situation before Iwas even contacted.
I was at work when I got thephone call and that was the
officers that gave you the phonecall yeah, the detectives, and
they told me they asked me tomeet them somewhere and I
stopped immediately because Iknew something was wrong.
(04:26):
I hadn't been in contact withNathan for two days, couldn't
find him.
I had already called all thehospitals.
I mean I searched for him.
But I met them at a cornerstore somewhere and they
informed me that they found myson and he had been shot in the
head and that it was suicide.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
And now I know the detectives had told you that
your son had been inside of thatcar for three days and you said
you went to the McDonald's onthe 19th and you also went on
the 20th.
Did you make your way downthere on the date of the 21st?
Speaker 2 (04:56):
No, I didn't go on the 21st.
I went to work but I waswaiting, you know, for his phone
call Immediately.
I was going to go searching forhim after work again, but, um,
yeah, they told me that um,actually they didn't tell me
this.
There was on the Facebook pagea post on the video.
It said that, um, when theyreported the car being somewhat
(05:17):
suspicious outside in theMcDonald's parking lot, that it
had been parked there for twodays, and, um, I beg to differ
because I I looked for him thereand I know what my own car
looks like and they found him.
They found him parked in theonly parking spot that there was
no video, um camera footage,which was kind of weird,
(05:37):
especially since they knew whathis car looked like and if it
did right, he worked there.
Speaker 3 (05:44):
Yeah, and if he'd been there for two days they
would have known it.
Why did it take you know thatlong to go check that car?
Speaker 1 (05:51):
well, the investigators told you that the
car had been there for threedays, but from the videos and
pictures that I've seen, you canclearly tell that the car is
draped in mud on the tires.
Yeah, did the cops give you anykind of information on that?
Speaker 2 (06:03):
I do.
I have it all on video.
I recorded all of ourconversations with all of the
detectives and sergeants, butthey would not give me any
answers.
They told me I had to subpoenathem for any information, which
was completely impossible.
I tried there's a routine thatyou have to take to get that
accomplished and none of theattorneys would take my case,
(06:26):
they told me, because they justflat out didn't want to.
So the only information aboutthe car that I can give you is
that I've seen that in thevideos and the tires were
completely caked in mud.
That car didn't travel therevery far, if it traveled at all,
because there would have beenbrakes in the tires I mean in
the mud on the tires and theydidn't recover the keys with the
(06:48):
car either.
The keys were missing.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
And next there was a guy parked across from the
McDonald's, directly in front ofthe parking spot where your
son's car would have been.
He was the son of the owner ofthe building, correct?
Speaker 2 (06:59):
That's correct.
I don't know if I can say anynames, but that's correct.
He reached out to me actuallyon on messenger and then I, I, I
missed the call so I reachedback out to him.
I don't know if um that'shelpful, but he, I asked him
about it and he said Jamie.
He said um, I, I, I drive alifted truck and they asked me
(07:20):
to move my truck so they couldtarp his car.
And um, and I didn't see hiscar there this morning.
I would have seen it when I gotinto my car to grab my wallet
out of the car to go eat lunch.
He's like cause I got in thecar and was on my phone for a
little while.
He said I would have seen rightdown inside your son's car.
I would have noticed.
So that verifies to me thatthat car was not there for any
(07:45):
amount of time.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
And Rhonda, how were you told about the death of your
grandson?
Speaker 3 (07:50):
I found out.
Jamie called me.
She was at the police stationand she called me, and that's
how I found out about it.
It was completely out of thenature for him to do anything
like this, especially somewherewhere there might be children
around.
Yeah, and see it, he wasn't.
He was a very private person.
(08:10):
He was.
Yeah, he wouldn't have donethis.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
And to my understanding there was
supposedly a suicide note left.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
Supposedly, and you know, and in the note it said,
he had written supposedly thatone of the things was that he
had to get a bottle to do this.
But they found no bottle,nowhere in the car, around the
car, nowhere, nowhere.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
Um it's just, it wasn't his handwriting either.
And I, I put that through tothe sergeant and he said that,
um, what did he tell you, mom?
Oh, because I wouldn't get anyinformation at all.
They wouldn't, they wouldn'ttalk to me, they completely,
completely ignored any of myphone calls.
Um, they treated me like asuspect.
(09:02):
Actually, um, and I wasn'tcouldn't get any information on
my son or about my son, aboutwhat happened.
Um, they told my mom, my momcould tell you that the
handwriting changes whensomeone's in distress, that the
handwriting could change.
That was all that they told us.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
I could understand if someone was really stressed out
or going through that and theirhandwriting changes just a bit.
But you, having lived with thatperson, you know if that's
their handwriting or not.
You can distinctly look at thathandwriting and tell if it's
theirs.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
Well, of course, it took me two months even to get
the permission for them torelease these letters to me too.
They weren't even going to letme have them.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
And I don't understand how come there was a
what was it?
Inquest or what that was allabout, when we knew nothing
about any of that.
You know we could have appearedor we could have been there, we
would have liked to known.
You know what the outcome ofthat was, but we were told
nothing, nothing at all.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
Yeah, and when I called about the grand jury
indictment I had to wait twoweeks to speak to a special
person, the head over there.
They were awaiting my phonecall.
All they could tell me if itwas a true bill or a no bill.
They wouldn't give me anyinformation about my son's case,
which I was informed.
Sergeant told me that that wasthe only way that I could get
(10:25):
this information was from them.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
They would be happy to tell me, but they were pulled
to me and wouldn't tell meanything either now I did get to
see a copy of the autopsyreport and nathan's one wound
showed that his trajectory wentfrom right to left.
Was he right-handed?
Speaker 2 (10:42):
right.
My son was left-handed and theum, the entrance wound was right
to left and if my, my son, wasgoing to hold, I know that you
know the kick.
I don't know about all that,but I know that my son uses his
left hand.
It was his dominant hand.
He would have used it in thissituation, I'm sure.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
I mean I know it has happened before, but it seems
like nine times out of 10someone would use their dominant
hand.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
It just doesn't make any sense Right, you're right,
you're right, right.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
And they, like I said , it took a long time to get any
information at all and theywere actually quite cold.
They even told my mom that if Ididn't back off that they could
charge me with his deathbecause of some law in Alabama
about knowing if someone knowsthat someone's going to commit
suicide or they push them intoit, that they could charge that
(11:37):
person with a death.
So they even threatened me toback off.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
And did they ever test Nathan's hands for gunshot
residue, and if not, then why?
Speaker 2 (11:46):
Mom, I'll let you answer this.
Speaker 3 (11:48):
No, no, because they said in the state of Alabama
they don't do that and when theyit's autopsy, they have him
down as a white male.
Well, Nathan, he was halfMexican and he was dark
(12:08):
complected.
They said he had no scars.
No, he had a hernia, Doublehernia.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
Yes, but it was double hernia.
Yeah, the autopsy was notcorrect either, they said.
And I mean, yeah, that wasn'tdone correctly either.
And when I filed for a secondcopy of it, it says on the front
page that certain parts wereredacted for certain reasons.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
And that day, on that video there seemed to be a lot
of officers or detectives orinvestigators on scene.
Were you told about how many ofthem thought this was a suicide
?
Speaker 2 (12:43):
Well, I have him recorded, mind you, Sergeant
Detective, stating to my momthat there was a good 14 people
and a majority of them said thatit agreed with him that it was
suicide, but not all of them.
And I have everything recorded.
Speaker 3 (13:02):
But yeah, so, and there is, there is in the report
.
There is no bullet they foundno, you know, they didn't find
bullet because it did exitNothing.
I mean there, there.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
It took a total of 32 minutes on the police report.
32 minutes for them to do thiswhole investigation, which means
is, I guess they found the noteand they just chalked it off as
suicide.
They did no investigation, theytalked to nobody, they didn't
take any witness statements,they didn't do anything at all,
nothing.
32 minutes for theinvestigation.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
I'm sorry, Rhonda, did you have something else to
say?
Speaker 3 (13:55):
something else to say .
Well, um, nathan, he, he wasnot that type of a person to do
any.
If nathan was to do, I feel, ifhe was to do something like
this, he would have went off andlet the alligators get him and
nobody know where he went.
You know what I'm saying?
Speaker 2 (14:04):
that this was this was not him, yeah, he would
never have done it at work likethat, in in like that.
He just wouldn't have done thatlike that.
Speaker 3 (14:14):
And on Facebook comments and stuff.
There are so many people thatcommented well, we were just
there this morning and we didn'tsee anything.
And you know, oh my gosh, weate there and nobody you know,
nobody in the comments had seenthe car there either.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
That car wasn't there .
I searched for him.
I searched and that car was notthere.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
And you said that vehicle was burned in training
three days later by the police.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
It was a fire exercise.
They just burned the car threedays later, so there was no
investigation at all, at all atall and what about nathan's body
?
Speaker 1 (14:55):
did they say we're going to do an investigation or
we're going to look at this orlook at that, or did they give
you any kind of indication ofwhich way to go?
Speaker 2 (15:04):
well, at that time my mind was a little foggy, so,
but I don't remember them evenasking me to identify the body.
I mean they could have, theycould have, but I don't even
remember them doing that.
On the paperwork, on theautopsy paperwork, um, it states
that he was identified by oneof the paramedic drivers and by
(15:24):
his license in his wallet.
And also, um, they got into hisphone, but I was.
When they gave it to me and Itook it to specialists, the
bootloader was locked.
It was impossible to break thisto get into this phone.
So somebody I mean they were init, the officers, the
authorities were in it, but whenthey handed it over to me it
(15:47):
was impossible to break and getinto.
So I couldn't retrieve any ofthe information on it the phone
call that I had gotten.
Speaker 3 (15:56):
They said that they had made to me my phone
connected for 17 minutes.
My phone never rang.
I never knew I got that call atall.
It was strange.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
The whole thing was strange, but there were comments
made.
There was a Bobby Douglas, I dobelieve, and a few other
comments made that he went intothe McDonald's.
I mean, this was probably justhearsay, but I like this is what
I'm asking the community If youguys have any information at
(16:28):
all about my son in those twodays 19th or the 20th, 21st.
Anything at all would behelpful.
Um, they said that he was atthe mcdonald's waving a gun
around and all these things.
I mean we can post all thecomments, maybe, joseph, but, um
, you know, and I know thatpeople would like to talk about
(16:48):
certain things and have nonothing to back it up, but if,
if the community knows anythingabout my son's whereabouts or
spoke with them or anything atall, I'd like you know someone
to come forth.
That would help a lot.
It would bring me a little bitof closure.
That's what I'm asking I'mhoping, jamie.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
I was able to hear some of the recordings between
you and a few of the mcdonald'sworkers, which names I cannot
reveal, but the workers weretold not to address the public
or get involved in any kind ofway.
Were you able to find out anymore information or gain any
access to anything new throughthose recordings?
Speaker 2 (17:21):
No, sir, I was not, they wouldn't even.
I contacted the McDonald'safter because I was going to put
up some kind of memorial atthat spot and they, they told me
no, and I, and I understandkind of, because it's a place of
business, but, um, they werevery cold and um, and they put
up a cement slab and threw atrash can on it.
(17:41):
It was the only and the parkingspot that he was in.
Let me change the subject butum had no video footage of it.
Um, it was parked.
It was the parking still rightthere by the, by the main
entrance door and where thedrive through would have backed
up when they were waiting atlunchtime.
You know what I mean.
So I mean people would havebeen parked staring at that car
(18:04):
and at nighttime because Ipicked up my son many nights
after work at nighttime that wasthe door that they exited out
of.
So all of the workers and themanager exits out that door and
my son's car would have been theonly car parked there in the
parking lot for those two dayswhen they closed.
I don't see how, if that carwas somewhat suspicious and why
they recorded it on the 21st.
(18:24):
I mean that kind of raises someawareness.
I mean, there was a few points.
Speaker 3 (18:31):
Evidently one of the workers had informed the other
worker to go check his car Right.
Well, all of a sudden it wasthere.
Why, you know?
I don't understand how come.
If it was there two days, whydidn't they check it before that
?
Speaker 1 (18:46):
Yeah, the employees would have seen the car there
every night as they exited therestaurant.
That doesn't make any sense.
Speaker 3 (18:52):
Right.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
Exactly, and there was a bullet hole in the back
window.
The window was shattered.
Speaker 3 (18:58):
I mean, yes, nobody had seen nothing, nobody had
heard nothing.
There was no report about wherethe bullet had went to that
exited the window.
Nothing, nothing.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
Do you know if they found any bullet casings inside
of the vehicle?
Speaker 2 (19:15):
They didn't search at all, no kind of investigation.
And even if I did ask thatquestion they would not answer
it.
They completely justblackballed me.
They wouldn't have anything todo with me.
They told my mom that I that Iyou know called them inept and
and I and I was pushing my luck.
(19:35):
I wasn't.
But the only reason I startedgetting pushy and rude was I
think it was about a year and ahalf to almost two years later
when I still didn't have anyanswers.
The only thing they told me washe was wearing the same socks
that he had on when he went into check his schedule on the
19th.
Speaker 3 (19:55):
And on that day, the last day that he supposedly
worked, I had his, where theychecked in and out, you know,
and he checked in for work thatday and he checked out for lunch
that day, but there is no, no,um back in after lunch or no,
(20:15):
back back in after you know.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
No, after work or anything and what day was that
on?
Speaker 3 (20:25):
that that that was the 19th did he work on the 19th
?
Speaker 2 (20:30):
he didn't that on the 19th?
Speaker 3 (20:31):
He didn't that was the 18th, wasn't it?
Yeah, they said that he went inand ate that evening, remember.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
Yeah, that was the 18th.
But yeah, and he checked hisschedule and he was off the 19th
and 20th.
That's what our communicationwas.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
It seems to me as though the police department
wouldn't be as cold that theywould allow you to dig or ask
questions.
As a mother or grandmother orfather or uncle, anyone inside
of that family circle should beallowed to ask questions and
come a little deeper into thecrime and ask what's going on
rather than getting mad about it.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
And there's quite a bit of crime there in Foley,
alabama in that area.
He wasn't the only one you knowthat was found.
Bodies are found there quiteoften.
It's sad.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
Yeah, and nobody there.
The only thing that came out ofmcdonald's that was anything at
all was the video that one ofthe workers had posted of the
car with the doors open, and allthat, and that was before they
even put the tarpaulin yeah, andthe doors were wide open and
you can clearly see my soninside and that was recorded by
(21:49):
one of the mcdonald's workers,or it was recorded by the news
crew.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
That came through facebook there's's two videos
online.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
One was the short video that the McDonald's worker
posted, and then Debbie postedher newscast on there.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
And you said you hired a private investigator but
at some point they gave yourmoney back and told you that
they could no longer be involvedin the case.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
You remember that, mama?
I hired that privateinvestigator and she was gung-ho
about the whole situation.
I mean, she just couldn'tunderstand the way that it was
conducted at all.
And then two weeks later shereturned my money and told me
that she had a family emergency,that she was sorry she couldn't
help me.
Speaker 3 (22:25):
That's right, that's right, so that's right.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
And, in your opinion, what do you think the reason
for that back out was?
Do you think they were paid offor stumbled across something
they didn't want to deal with?
Speaker 2 (22:36):
The Alabama authorities handle things the
good old boy way.
You know what I mean.
They don't conduct themselveslike all other states do.
If they don't want to tell youanything, they're not going to
tell you anything.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
And if something wasn't right about this or if
they feel like they didn't dotheir job right, um, you aren't
going to get any answers.
So you feel, overall, it wasseen as it's just suicide, shut
it down.
Speaker 3 (23:01):
We have other stuff to do and that's it it's just
completely out of his nature todo something like that,
somewhere where a child couldhave came upon him my son
wouldn't have done that at all,anyways, I mean, his little life
was going on track, you know,he had things.
He had money in the bank, hehad gas in his car, he had a job
.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
I mean he was actually starting his little
life.
I mean it was completelydifferent than where we moved
from and you know, the officersdidn't take any kind of no
statements from anybody.
They just did not do their job.
They didn't, they didn't.
And then when I tried to askquestions they couldn't answer
it.
I think they just found thatnote and chalked it off as
(23:44):
suicide and then just closed theinvestigation.
It took them 30 minutes just towait for the coroner to arrive,
that's it.
Speaker 3 (23:52):
That's all they did when I asked to speak to the
detective that had called me,that had gotten in his phone and
then called me um well, he nolonger worked there, so we
couldn't talk to him either soand yeah, and like, like you
mentioned that that day had toldthe girls at mcdonald's, you
know, not to not to deal withpublic, not to deal with that.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
Yeah, they shut down the McDonald's that day and told
them not to answer the phones,not to answer any questions.
And the manager that workedthere for like eight years was
one of Nathan's friends.
He quit that very next day andI couldn't find him locate him
at all.
Friends, he quit that very nextday and I couldn't find him
locate him at all.
Um, they moved one of the otherI won't say any names, I'm
(24:36):
sorry.
They moved one of the othermanagers.
Um, that was a little talkative.
They moved her to a completelydifferent McDonald's about.
Well, I don't know how farFoley is from Orange Beach, but
they moved her to the OrangeBeach McDonald's.
Speaker 3 (24:49):
Um, and then I couldn't get any answers from
anybody after that at that pointit just so happened that they
say that the thought that nathanwas in, that their cameras did
not record.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
They recorded everything in the parking lot up
until that point right and Ipicked up after that parking
spot, they said there was no um.
When I asked for footage abouthim coming in driving into the
mcdonald's, um, uh, they didn'trecord that and you know, the
officers didn't roll back any ofthis video footage themselves.
(25:24):
They asked to do it and emailit to them.
So I mean she could havechanged anything.
I mean anything could have beenchanged or altered.
At that point.
I mean they didn't.
They just didn't handle thiscase appropriately.
Yes, that's right, right, andleft me completely in the dark.
I mean completely in the darkand with all these other
(25:45):
questions coming up on Facebookabout about him being there and
what he was doing.
And this gentleman said that hespoke with the McDonald's
workers that night.
I mean he was in detail aboutall of these comments and all of
these things coming up.
I mean I had questions for theofficers.
You know I mean lots ofquestions and still to this day
(26:09):
I can't get any information ofquestions and still, to this day
, I can't get any information.
Speaker 3 (26:16):
It seems like authorities would be not
sympathetic, or however you wantto describe it.
Um, to a mother, they, theyblew her off, like she said,
like, like she, you know, hadsomething to do with it or she
knew that he was going to dothis, and this is how they came
back on Jamie.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
Do you guys feel like there may have been someone out
there to get him or hurt him,or do you feel like there was
any indication that there couldhave been?
Speaker 2 (26:47):
No, he didn't get along with the prior gentleman
that I was living with, but myson was a very likable person,
very, very good boy.
Very good boy, I mean he stayedto himself, he was very private
, but he was a very good boy.
I mean he wouldn't have had anyenemies at all.
(27:09):
Mama, would he?
No, he wouldn't have had anyenemies at all, mama, would he?
Speaker 3 (27:12):
No, he, he went, he did for others before he would
do for himself.
And and he, he would have knownhow this would have made us
feel and he would have never putus through this, never put us
through this, never put usthrough this.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
You know, I'm not I'm .
I'm just.
What I'm wanting is a littlebit of closure here.
That's why I reached out to you, joseph.
Um, I just want a little bitmore information, if not from
the authorities, um, you know,from from anybody, if they, if
they know you know or heardanything, maybe it could lead me
to something else.
(27:55):
I mean, any kind of closurewould help, joseph, on this
matter.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
If you had a chance to speak to anyone else who was
struggling with feelings ofgrief or pain in which you
endure, what words would you sayto them?
Speaker 3 (28:19):
say to them I I would tell them that to be very
persistent, um, do not back off.
If you have questions, askquestions, um, and keep your
loved ones close to you.
Keep them close i'm'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
Okay, and I totally avoided that question.
I'm sorry, but it always helpsto pray and turn to God, you
know, in times like this,because that's all I had to lean
on.
I was angry with him at first,but just to pray and keep your
heart open to him.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
Well, I just want to tell you, ladies, both thank you
so much for being on the show,thank you for answering all my
questions and hopefully we'llget this passed around and
someone will come forward andgive us some answers.
Speaker 3 (29:03):
Thank you, joseph, I want to thank you, joseph, for
this.
Thank you very much.
You have been a godsend, thankyou.
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