August 30, 2020 • 35 mins
While I had previously been aware of him, I finally met artist and curator Tommy Gregory a week and a half before he left Houston in 2018. He moved with his family to head the public art program for the Port of Seattle (SEA-TAC) at...
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
This is Melissa Richardson Banks.
Welcome to Mused LADU.
This is a podcast dedicated tothe idea of the literal and
(00:22):
figurative journey between LosAngeles and Houston, where I
lived in LA for 25 years andHouston now for the past four.
And I have a really great guesttoday, someone that I met who
actually took a journey of hisown when I met him and is doing
some really wonderful things.
My guest today is Tommy Gregory.
Tommy, are you on?
SPEAKER_02 (00:39):
I'm here.
Thank you so much.
SPEAKER_00 (00:41):
Oh, great.
So, Tommy, you're an artist anda curator, and you were just
sharing with me, very similar tome in that you have a, maybe
you're bi-coastal, if you will.
It's your Gulf Coast and WestCoast now, correct?
SPEAKER_02 (00:53):
Yeah, I still have a pretty good presence in Houston
and based primarily here inSeattle.
So, I feel like I'm definitelybi-coastal, but I'm a Houston
and Seattle-based artist andcurator.
SPEAKER_00 (01:05):
And you, along with your wife, artist and writer
Casey Arguelles Gregory, andyour adorable, precocious
seven-year-old daughterClementine, who I just shared
with you recently.
I thought she was, I couldn'tbelieve she was just seven.
You now live in Seattle, butyou're back and forth between
here as well.
Well, not
SPEAKER_02 (01:24):
as back and forth as we'd like, thanks to the
coronavirus, but yes, definitelya Still have some pretty solid
roots in Houston, but we areloving Seattle and making the
best of a beautiful place duringthe COVID-19 era.
SPEAKER_00 (01:41):
I'm glad to...
I've been...
Well, I met you, I guess, rightbefore you, literally probably a
week or two before you guysmoved.
We were just talking about thatthe other day, in 2018?
Yeah,
SPEAKER_02 (01:52):
yeah.
We met...
Basically, a week and a halfbefore I moved, but I'm so glad
we kept in touch.
It was a crazy time when we wereleaving.
It's a crazy time now.
SPEAKER_00 (02:05):
Oh, yeah, and I remember.
So when we first met, we wereintroduced by Volker Eisler from
the Artscan Gallery, and I knowhe was your partner and
collaborator on a project that Iwas introduced to when I first
moved to Houston in 2016.
I didn't realize that was thefirst year.
It was Sculpture Month Houston.
And tell me a little bit
SPEAKER_02 (02:25):
about that.
Yeah, it was actually the, itwas the second part of the
biennial.
So we started the first year in2016.
And then the, yeah, we met on,it was basically the biggest one
to, you know, we hoped theywould get bigger, of course.
But it was, yeah, 2018 was thesecond part of that biennial.
And then this year, 2020 wassupposed to be, but I don't know
(02:49):
because of the coronavirus, whatthe future of, that a Houston
Sculpture Month program mightend up becoming.
SPEAKER_00 (02:58):
And now how timely would it be now?
I mean, the idea that people arelooking for things to do and to
get out in the cars and to goout and be safe, but to see art.
So I really hope that it comesback in some form or fashion.
That
SPEAKER_02 (03:12):
is something interesting with public art is
we're in a time where museums,for the most part, are limited
capacity or closed.
Galleries are limited capacityor closed.
And public art right now is atits most important time, in my
opinion.
It's something where you coulddrive by it.
It's something where you couldwear your mask and walk and see
it and have social distance inmind, but also get some visual
(03:36):
culture.
SPEAKER_00 (03:37):
Kind of prophetically, the last show
that I saw that you did here inHouston was earlier this year.
I saw it, I think, on the lastday that it was on view.
And it was called EverythingLasts Forever, which...
I think as I looked at the show,was really tongue-in-cheek
because of the idea that it hadso many different elements in
(03:58):
it.
I'd like you to talk a littlebit about that.
That body of work was a seriesof cast bronze sculptures, and
among them were...
Why don't you roll it over toyou now?
Tell me a little bit about thepieces, and did they indeed last
forever?
SPEAKER_02 (04:12):
Well, taking objects that are destined for...
the landfill or in a lot ofthose cases from the condom
wrappers, it's not condomwrappers, but the condoms that
are still enclosed.
These were kind of single-useobjects.
And by kind of immortalizingthem in bronze, it's pretty
(04:34):
evident that, you know, nothinglasts forever, obviously, in a
manner of speaking, right?
So everything lasts forever wasa tongue-in-cheek title.
But the work in the show, Imean, it had a lot of
implications, um, from politicalinnuendo to, um, environmental
concerns, um, you know,discussing single use objects,
(04:55):
but then the shoes, uh, in aweird way, like there's a shoe
culture where, you know, youmight buy a shoe, wear it once
and hang it on a wall and neverwear it again.
Or you just get rid of them.
Like the one that I cast inbronze, which was, uh, somebody
sold on eBay for$14, but theshoe when it originally came out
was over 300.
So it's, It's really funny, justlike the destiny of objects, but
(05:16):
also the beauty in changing thematerial and the way the public
interacts with it.
And actually, it's no longerused in the same fashion.
It's only used in a visualsense.
It's something you could enjoyvisually and not wear out.
But I hope that people...
took more out of it than whatwas on the surface of that show.
(05:39):
I enjoyed the way the gallerypresented all of the work.
It was extremely elegant.
And, you know, I hope that, Idon't know, it's a body of work
that I want to continuallyinvestigate because I do love
Castrol.
SPEAKER_00 (05:54):
You know, I grew up in a, not a small town, but I
guess I'm from Flower Bluff,Texas.
I don't know if you know, it'sright between Padre Island and
Corpus Christi.
And I didn't go to a museumuntil I was, well, they didn't
really have a museum untillater, right before I left.
It had a little small historymuseum and then later became
what is now the Art Museum inSouth Texas.
(06:15):
So my museum career started inLos Angeles and I started with a
history museum back in 1993.
And so my, you know, that kindof the history and the identity
and when they actually have thisinterpretation.
It's kind of interesting to mebecause I love the presentations
that are at Great Contemporary,but I really wanted to have this
conversation with you becausehaving this history background
(06:39):
but also wanting to understandart because I'm not an art
historian and I really want toappreciate art and I do art
marketing so I really want tohelp people understand that's
why I was really interested inchatting with you too because
the pieces were there and it wasa beautifully elegant
presentation but what I hungeredfor and that's why I called you
too is I wanted to know moreabout these amazing the back
(07:02):
story of this because I love andappreciate going to an art
museum and Being at its purest,which I think is done so well at
Great Contemporary, where peoplejust appreciate the art without
having someone tell them aboutit.
But I'm also this person thatwants to be told, and then I can
still interpret my own way andtake it that way.
It's kind of like the one piecethat you know that I loved in
(07:24):
the show is the lever soap.
I think that, and I was like,oh, what's this soap?
And then it had even moremeaning now after COVID because
I was like, oh, I really wantthat piece, right?
And I think you said, right?
And I think there was anotherone too.
You said you did a glasssculpture earlier that was, was
it the dove soap or?
SPEAKER_02 (07:44):
Well, I did a dove soap.
Yeah, there was, I did a doveout of glass.
And, you know, that was, myfirst casting in glass, I worked
with a really great, um, uh, Iwould say he's definitely a
sculptor, but he's more thanjust a, he's one of those
artists.
You can't kind of pigeonholeinto saying you're a sculptor,
(08:05):
you're a glass artist.
He does it all.
But, uh, Weston Lambert and heshowed me how to cast glass and
we cast this stuff.
So, but it was initially becausethere's something that we're
forgetting, especially somebodywho came from a border, uh,
close to the U S Mexican border.
Um, the, the terribleimmigration laws we have going
on right now and the story thatcame out in that small town
(08:26):
facility, that ICE facility,where they weren't allowing the
basically prisoners, theimmigrants, any soap.
So I felt like the dove soap wasbeing upside down too, so the
peace symbol of the dove is kindof flipped upside down, meant
something to me there, but thenit's evolved because As soon as
(08:48):
that show ended, we got hit withthe coronavirus of the soap,
which kind of meant one thingdepending on how the viewer
looks at it.
Some people look at it just in aweird way.
Soap, when you have it in amaterial that doesn't degrade,
it's a very elegant object.
It's almost like an EllsworthKelly painting, very simple and
geometric.
UNKNOWN (09:09):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (09:09):
Anyway, yeah, it's taken on a new life because
we've been washing our handsmethodically since March.
I mean, those of us who werelucky enough to.
And...
I don't know.
I feel like my pieces always dothat.
I feel like I've been lucky thatway.
And where my eyes and my artinterests kind of start to align
and what I want to make is, Iremember doing a piece on toilet
(09:33):
paper many, many years ago.
And now I have friends repostingthat when the whole country was
having a toilet paper shortage.
It's just weird how art...
You know, you can explain it allyou want, but it's going to
change over
SPEAKER_00 (09:48):
time.
And I really appreciate thatbecause I think that's what I
really needed to hear for myselfbecause, again, I kept thinking,
oh, I want someone to tell meand then I can get my
interpretation.
But your work in particular hasjust made it for me to
understand the fact that, again,it does change.
It can change with yourenvironment.
It can change with your point ofview.
And then, again, meaning youhave an intent when you are
(10:11):
creating it, but...
The intent has changed andevolved.
And now we can have this wholenew meaning.
And how beautiful is that?
So again, I really learned a lotjust by your show because of
that and because of what'shappened afterwards.
And it shows the longevity ofyour work, which I think is
really awesome too.
Thank
SPEAKER_02 (10:30):
you.
And I feel like I learned thatfrom having good mentors and
good professors and just peoplethat artists, friends that I
admire and seeing the successesin their work or some of the
works that, you know, made onsurface level, not seem, you
know, to be striking at all onall the hot points.
And then you find out over time,like, gosh, you know, they
(10:53):
really had it, you know, theyreally had an amazing idea and
saw it to fruition becausesometimes pieces are, are beyond
their time, I think.
And, you know, I worked withLouisa Menes, very amazing
artist.
painter, sculptor, printmaker,artist extraordinaire, you know,
out of the Southwest area.
He taught at University ofHouston when I was an undergrad
there.
And I think that was one of histhings he kind of challenged me
(11:15):
with was like a, you know,finding what motivates you to
make work other than beauty, butnever forget the formal kind of
power of making an objectbecause that's what makes it, it
kind of transcends and goesbeyond what we intended to be as
the maker.
And it also reaches peoplebecause you don't want to make
work that's completelyone-sided.
(11:38):
So if you're trying to make amessage that wants, like the
piece I had on HeightsBoulevard, I always thought was
a really good example ofsomething that people look at
both sides of a politicalspectrum or a a worldview
spectrum where they seesomething and they could get
something out of it, even thoughmy message is completely my own.
So I don't know if you'refamiliar with that piece, but it
was a bench and it was a benchthat was cut in the shape of the
(12:01):
United States.
Pretty plain as day.
It wasn't really hiding thatshape at all.
It was a water jet cut clean asa whistle.
And inside the state or thecountry, the shape of the
country, it said, made for youand me.
you know, the Woody Guthriesong, this land is your land,
this land is my land, right?
But on the southern border ofthat bench, which is what made
(12:24):
it a bench, because you can leanagainst this, was a 12-foot tall
fence, all made out of squaretubing.
And, you know, this is right onHeights Boulevard, a prominent
area of Houston, Texas, and youknow, people from all political
backgrounds and socioeconomicbackgrounds run on that Heights
Boulevard area.
It doesn't matter your economicstance.
(12:44):
I mean, that's a very popularspot to go and just enjoy the
outdoors.
Anyway, my point is, is that Iremember hearing people who were
right-leaning human beings beinglike, Oh, that's really cool.
You know, cause they, they madefor you and me and they just,
they saw something that I didnot intend.
Right.
And then, you know, anybody whowas, who was kind of empathetic
and cautious to our borderissues and our immigration
(13:05):
issues in the country, um, theysaw the, you know, what was a
fairly evident, uh, monolithic,uh, monstrosity and having this,
this big overly done backing tothis, that was implying to the
separation between our, our, youknow, neighbors to the South.
And, um, Anyway, there's a lotof people who didn't see either
(13:28):
one of those things.
They saw a big old bench, and ifit wasn't a super sunny day,
people would take a little loadoff between their runs.
SPEAKER_00 (13:36):
So you mentioned the Heights Boulevard project.
That's the one that was, Ithink, co-curated by a variety
of people, but one in particularwe have a mutual friend is Gus
Capriva of Redbud Gallery.
Yeah.
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (13:48):
Yeah, Gus definitely involved in giving me that
opportunity, but also was verysupportive from an engineering
standpoint.
He actually has stanced myengineering drawings, which made
the piece completely possible.
But, yeah, Gus is amazing, andthat's public art to, you know,
doing what public art should dois that project there that's an
(14:09):
annual project I'm so glad it'sfunded and it gets good support
locally and evidently regionallybecause they're expanding beyond
the Houston borders but it hassome great artists I mean Joe
Havel has done it Sharon Caprivahas done it Paul Kittleson was
one of the first artists thereLee Littlefield um I actually,
if I'm not mistaken, I think Iwas driving by and I actually
(14:32):
helped move a couple sculpturesbecause I was living in that
neighborhood at the time,renting in that neighborhood,
and Yeah, it was a really funthing that started in 2014.
I'm so glad it's strong going.
At that time, I spent five yearsin San Antonio, and I'd only
been back in Houston for twoyears.
And I was already eyeballingthat space when I saw that Gus
(14:54):
and I think it was ChrisSilkwood collaborated to make
that happen for the HeightsBoulevard project.
And I was just, you know,fingers crossed I would be able
to do it.
So to be able to be an artistincluded before I moved and
relocated to to Seattle was areally big honor.
SPEAKER_00 (15:10):
You mentioned San Antonio, and I recall you did
your MFA at the University ofTexas in San Antonio, and that's
where we also had some mutualfriends, too, in the art world.
Joseph Cohen, Vincent Valdez,Ricky Armendariz, and probably
others.
You were there for your master'sdegree, but I think you also
(15:31):
worked in public art there aswell.
Is that Tell me a little bitabout that.
I
SPEAKER_02 (15:35):
did, yeah.
Melissa, that's one of the greatthings about the art world.
It makes the whole worldsmaller.
It's a very tight community in away and very open.
And San Antonio was extremelyopen.
And You know, I was there for acouple of years for grad school
where I got to actually have aTA for Ricky.
(15:56):
And, you know, I was working.
I was working at Blue Star whilein graduate school there.
And that's where I met Vincentand Vince Valdez.
And when I got out of graduateschool, I applied for a public
art project and didn't get it.
But the director of the programsaw me at an opening and was
(16:17):
like, hey, you know, I reallyliked your proposal.
sorry you didn't get it.
Would you be interested in ajob?
So that was my intro to becominga public art administrator.
I ended up applying for that jobthat he talked about and got
hired and has been doing itbasically ever since.
SPEAKER_00 (16:35):
And then that's when you went as we were the public
art program director and thencurator for Houston Airports and
of course now senior
SPEAKER_02 (16:41):
manager.
We met when I was handling the,yeah, the Houston Air Force
SPEAKER_00 (16:46):
system.
Definitely the power couple,because your wife is an artist
and also an amazing writer,writer for the arts.
And I don't know what others, Ijust know her work writing about
the arts.
And your daughter is verytalented.
Clementine, oh, my God.
Tell me a little bit about it.
I want to segue real quickbecause I was looking on
Facebook, and I saw that youwere inspired to make this work
(17:11):
of art that was an ordinaryobject that's definitely on
everyone's mind right now, whichis dealing with the United
States Postal Service.
So talk a little bit about that.
SPEAKER_02 (17:23):
Yeah.
So, you know, this is a toughdilemma.
I know that you're going to havea lot of artists listening to
this, and they're going toconnect, I believe, with my
conundrum.
If you're being sociallyresponsible and caring about
everybody around you, you'retrying to social distance and
quarantine as much as possible.
(17:43):
Casey is anybody who's met us.
She's the brains in the family.
She's brilliant.
She's a great writer, greatpainter, and we're both trying
to stake creative.
And we have a little one herewho is also just, you know,
she's seven years old and she'sliving in one of the most
beautiful places in the world,right next to Lake, not right
next to Lake Washington, butwe're, you know, a nice little
hike away from Lake Washington.
So it's hard to enjoy theoutdoors to a certain degree.
(18:06):
It's hard.
She's made every kind of artproject you could think of
inside our little, a little 900square foot place where we're
living in Seattle.
And I lost my studio through tosome developers took over the
studio that, so it's just beena, It's been a nightmare for us
to try to stay creative.
I shouldn't say a nightmare, butit's been difficult.
And so Casey's finding her wayto do it.
(18:29):
Clementine's finding hers.
And her and I together weredriving and driving back from my
office through the Port ofSeattle at Pier 69.
And we were driving back and Isaw a USPS car.
postal box and I was just like Itold Clementine in the backseat
I'm like hey we're going to makea stop and I knew a few blocks
(18:51):
over was a Lowe's we pulled overto Lowe's and I bought some
hardware just did the math in mymind and I was like I think this
will work I spent$70 in lumberand yeah and I built the kind of
very it was just a great itch toscratch because I needed to make
something I've been making smallworks in our little place but it
wasn't really scratching thatitch so I think that because I'm
very much worried about ourdemocracy and the fate of our
(19:16):
kind of election coming up andjust also the safety of human
beings, being able to vote bymail.
We do it here in WashingtonState.
It's extremely efficient andvery, very convenient.
I feel it's like a safe thingand it works.
I hope everybody gets to do it.
And if we do preserve our postalservice, we should be able to do
it.
So this idea obviously generatedfrom that.
I saw it on the street and Ireally just had to make
(19:38):
something and I made that.
And now it's turned into alittle thing where the little
kiddo I think it has to behaving a painter for a mother,
but she did an amazingunderpainting, which she calls
it the underpaint.
So she painted it blue with alittle gallon of blue paint we
had laying around, whichactually looks really good.
It's like one of the moreclassic USPS blues, not the dark
(19:59):
blue that we see today, but itstill looks great.
Or it looks like it's beenweathered.
And we're letting her friends inthe neighborhood just kind of
tag it and work on it andAnyway, I'm glad that you saw
it.
It's cathartic in a way to havemade it, but also posted.
I didn't intend it to beartwork, or I shouldn't say
(20:19):
artwork, but I think it actuallymight be a piece that I'll be
proud to say I made, especiallyduring this era.
You and I, and not to segueagain, but we both have some
good hair farming going on.
I think that's another record oftime.
We should talk about that.
I don't know if you want tosegue to that.
(20:40):
Let's do,
SPEAKER_00 (20:41):
let's do.
SPEAKER_02 (20:42):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (20:43):
Let me just, first of all, say you have a head of
hair.
SPEAKER_02 (20:49):
I, I work, uh, I swear I get like some negative
vibes from some of my malecoworkers.
And I talked to some otherfriends at work and they're
like, well, it's cause they'reall bald.
And you got this giant head ofhair on every zoom in Microsoft
teams meeting we're doing.
So I was like, I don't, it's notmy fault.
And the reason it's growing is Ithink I told you, my mom's a
(21:11):
hairdresser and she was a, She'sbeen the only one really to cut
my hair.
I've had one other haircut froman uncle, like when I was two,
maybe.
But other than that, the onlyperson to ever touch my head is,
well, aside from Casey shavingit, which she wants to do so
badly.
And I keep telling her to leaveit alone, just let it grow until
I can see my mom again.
And that'll be the time I getcut.
But yeah, it's growing.
It's like a helmet.
(21:32):
I could jump off our roof andprobably be fine.
SPEAKER_00 (21:34):
No, it's a great head of hair.
You know, my head of hair hasdefined me in so many ways.
And so...
Over the years and I've beenhesitant to move from that honey
gold blonde that I was born withthat I eventually started toying
with in my late 30s and 40s as Iwas transitioning.
(21:56):
And I knew that I was at thetime.
My hair was not changing like mymother.
My mother has a beautiful headof white hair.
Her hair is beautiful.
And my sister has beautiful saltand pepper.
It's more silver.
And mine just wasn't there.
And I tried to do it last year.
And then like you, when thisCOVID happened in the
(22:17):
quarantining, it became definingfor me to just let it go.
And in fact, I kept saying, I'mnot going to cut it until this
is over.
And, you know, it's blendingnicely.
I said, I'm going to be a silverand gold hair.
hippie by the time this is over.
It'll have the gold roots andthe silver, you know, so I mean,
gold ends in the silver roots.
And, you know, I'm kind of, it'simportant, it's a time keeper or
(22:41):
record of what's happening aswell.
And it's also kind of depictswhat I'm going through in terms
of change like we all are.
We're all going through so muchgrowth during this time.
I love that your mom's ahairdresser.
I think that's awesome too.
So I hope that you get to seeyour mom soon, safely and
(23:03):
whenever.
I'm sure Casey is hoping you'llsee her soon because you could
get your hair cut.
SPEAKER_02 (23:09):
Well, I like it and I love yours.
I mean, I think that there's anatural look that you're going
with.
I think you were strawberryblonde when I met you.
Yeah.
But yeah, I mean, let it grow.
Let it grow and let's see whatkind of silver streaks you get
because I'm definitely owningmine.
I'm definitely more silver thanI am dark-haired now.
(23:31):
But, you know, this is the era.
Let it be a record of time.
SPEAKER_00 (23:37):
No, I think that's really, really exciting.
We also had some connections.
So when you moved to Seattle, wecontinued– getting to know each
other via email and phone.
And I think you actually came,you and Casey and Clementine
came to LA when I was producinga couple of private collector
(23:57):
events for art news magazine inconjunction with the launch of
freeze in Los Angeles.
And that was in February, 2019.
And then I, I, you know, I thinkat that point, I didn't realize,
and I don't know if you defineyourself, your identity as
Chicano, but I didn't know yourheritage, and I think that's
when I finally went, oh, TommyGregory, it just was not the
(24:22):
name that I felt like I, that I,and that sounds really bad from
this white girl here, but I justdidn't, know your what you who
you identified or what you whatyou considered your identity and
if because of that event you gotto meet Cheech and Gijun and
that's how it all kind of theconversation started so I'll
stop there and talk to you aboutidentity
SPEAKER_02 (24:43):
well you know I identify as a I'm a mixed race
um individual and uh I wasalways kind of like I'm kind of
proud like you know probably notthe right word but half Irish
half Mexican I feel like there'sa lot of um similarities between
those two cultures more thanpeople would probably connect on
the surface.
But yeah, I mean, I was raisedin a, you know, Chicano was a
(25:07):
word that, you know, I thinkthat from a revolution during a
more revolutionary time was aword that was used.
So in the late 80s when I waskind of understanding where I
kind of sat as a mixed raceperson, I think that term kind
of was coming in and out inTexas, right?
Somebody did a good marketingprogram and started dubbing
(25:30):
everybody Hispanic and having achick Hispanic on, uh, on your,
um, um, you know, school sheetsand such.
But, um, no, I mean, I'm proudto be, um, you know, kind of a
biracial person and connect tothe multicultural, um, um, you
know, sides of this country.
And, uh, the work is a littlebit inspired by that, but, um, I
(25:54):
mean, to be able to go toCheech's house is like going to
Mecca in a way for an artperson, you know, you go to a
place where he's got, uh, fromthe De La Torre brothers who
thankfully, you know, throughyou, I met them and became very
familiar with their work.
Uh, I knew their work before,but it became even more
engrossing.
As a matter of fact, like we're,uh, we, we saw each other
because of another, um, aconnection you made with us with
(26:15):
Elena Del Rio.
Um, I saw the brothers, what,maybe three weeks ago here in
Seattle.
It was a fantastic hangout Iwant to say it was probably the
first hangout artistface-to-face interaction I've
had since we all went onlockdown so it was it was just
an emotional time for me to beable to talk art Casey was with
us too and his really fun to beable to talk to them.
(26:37):
But yeah, because of you, Ireally got to thank you for
those, having the strong networkand sharing it and connecting
people.
You know, you're, you're,there's no way that I'm the
first person to tell you that.
And I won't be the last, butyou're like just awesome at, at,
you know, kind of well meldingthese, these communities
together and letting us knowwe're all here together and
working, trying to, to, youknow, elevate the art world in
(27:01):
the way that I guess the worldperceives work in the United
States in this millennia.
What is it?
What era are we in now?
Who knows what this era is goingto be known as.
But I think it's good that wehave people like you, Cheech,
the De La Torre brothers, all ofour networks in Texas, kind of
all getting to know each otherand getting to know each other's
(27:22):
work.
It's a fun, odd time.
SPEAKER_00 (27:26):
Well, it's interesting because I actually
started my career in what wastermed as Hispanic marketing in
Texas.
And when I finally moved to LosAngeles years later, people kept
saying, how are you, like, how'dyou get involved with the
Chicano community?
And for me, I felt it was acommunity that felt most
(27:47):
connected.
connected to me as being a Texanbecause in Texas you take the
German immigrant history and theMexican immigrant history and
you shake it all up that's Texasand that's being Texan and it's
a little bit there's so much ofthis again this melding again of
these communities if you willand when I've later met Cheech
(28:11):
through Richard Duardo, may herest in peace, a great,
wonderful master printer andartist himself.
But I did a project with themand Cheech, at that very big
gathering at Plaza de la Rosa inLA, saying should mean as an
honorary Chicana, so at least Ihave.
Somebody gave me that, but Istill am a white girl from
(28:33):
Texas, but I really appreciateand support the community and
working in this world, so it's agood thing for me, and I really
appreciate it, and I'm gratefulfor that.
SPEAKER_02 (28:45):
You know, it's weird.
I think that the art world islike the great equalizer.
Did you ever ride a motorcycle,or did you ever have a
motorcycle?
SPEAKER_00 (28:54):
Yes, my father made cars and motorcycles So I am
definitely,
SPEAKER_02 (29:00):
you know how there, there's a culture there where
like, um, at least for me, likeat least when you're on it, I
remember when I was in graduateschool, I was lucky to have one.
Cause my, my dad had a, I don'tknow if he listens to this,
he'll get mad, but I thinkmidlife crisis, but he bought
himself, he always rode bikes,but he, when he, when he got a
little older, he bought himselfa little sport bike.
And, uh, my mom was like, takethis to San Antonio with you.
(29:21):
Cause he was in Houston and hekept like hurting himself on it.
So I basically stole hismotorcycle and wrote it while I
was in graduate school.
And, uh, but, but, but drivingbetween, you know, Houston and
San Antonio.
And then our, we have my folks,uh, a little family farm in
Bastrop.
I'd be driving on the road, youknow, small town, Texas
highways.
And, um, you get the wave, youknow what I mean?
(29:42):
So like, you know, as the motor,you're, you're a motorcycle on
the other side of the one way,I'm on the other and they just
give you a nice little, nicelittle wave.
And it's like, it's like the artworld to me.
It's like where you're a part ofa club and it doesn't matter if
you're Hispanic, Mexican,Chicano, white, black, it
doesn't matter because we're alllike in this, in this thing
together.
Kind of like, I wish the rest ofthe world would be like
(30:02):
professions shouldn't really bethe things to dictate that
because in reality, artists are,I think we become connected not
only to our peers, but also ourcollectors and people that show
us support and help guide ourcareers as well, from curators
to public art administrators.
We collect these networks ofpeople and we try to foster
(30:25):
them.
There's a very human thing thathappens when the creative
economies and people interestedin the creative field start to
work together and live lifetogether and become kind of in
tune with social media as muchas I think it's extremely
(30:47):
problematic in a lot of ways.
It's opened the door to peopleto see my daughter.
I have collectors who are like,God, it's so fun to see her grow
up.
I met her when I bought thispiece of yours in 2014 and she
was just a baby.
You know what I mean?
I don't know.
There's something about thatwhere I I'm hoping that, I don't
know, there's the power of artfrom our earlier discussion
(31:11):
talking about public art and howit's needed right now because of
the quarantine and COVID-19, butalso just, you know, these kind
of networks that we've madetogether and that we're going
to, I'm sure, foster for yearsto come.
I just hope the kind of vibespreads and we get to do shows
together and, you see our hairgrow together that'll be fun
SPEAKER_00 (31:35):
we'll have to definitely have our uh before
and after photos of you you doyours i'll do mine and we'll
post them together at the end ofthis because there's going to be
an insight
SPEAKER_02 (31:45):
we'll have to you do you i sent you one so you show
yours and then when we get uhhopefully we'll have some kind
of treatment or vaccine and wecould have that picture together
in person
SPEAKER_00 (31:55):
i would love that i would love that Well, I think
this has been an amazingconversation, and it's one of
these things that you and I, wetalked about the other day.
We could talk just on and onbecause there's just so much, so
many things that I think weenjoy and enjoy your family and,
of course, all the connectionswe've had together.
One last thing before we wrap uptoday.
(32:16):
I was just curious, do you havean update, an upcoming show or
project that you're proud ofthat you'd like to talk about?
Is there anything coming up thatwe should know?
SPEAKER_02 (32:24):
Well, I'm very proud to say I've been accepted for a
residency at Pilchuck GlassSchool.
And again, I have to give you alittle kudos there because it
was a connection made throughthe brothers who you helped
foster there and then throughBen Wright, who's the exhibit
(32:47):
coordinator.
I didn't see his title.
He's either a director, exhibitsdirector there.
But he invited me to be anartist in residence.
And because of the coronavirus,it was postponed until 2021.
So it's supposed to happen thissummer.
But I'm still excited at that.
That's something, you know,just...
from living in the PacificNorthwest to be at Pilchuck is
(33:10):
to me the creme de la creme it'sthe top of the top of the top
and I'm just so happy to Ivisited the school before the
coronavirus happened so I wasable to go see what the
facilities were like and Iguarantee I'm going to make some
amazing things there and lookforward to working with the
specialists they have andgetting to know artists and
other artists and residents butyeah that's still in the books
I'm looking forward to that andI'm currently in a show in
(33:32):
Houston right now Melissa atGray I mean they I recently
started representing my work inthe Houston market, and I'm in
their Black Lives Matter show,which is simply titled Matter.
And that's up until the end ofthe month, I believe.
SPEAKER_00 (33:50):
I'll be sure and put all that into the promotional
materials and stuff and shareit.
I'll put links.
Your website isTommyGregory.com?
SPEAKER_02 (33:59):
Yeah, and it's kind of, I'm a Luddite, so it's been
abandoned for a little years.
They have, I think the only workon there is my confessional that
I showed at Redbud and then aneon piece I showed at the
Williams Tower.
But Instagram handles prettygood.
I kind of try to stay on top ofthings there.
I think the Instagram is TommyGregory TXWA or WATX.
(34:25):
It's Texas or Washington.
I'm a dual resident in
SPEAKER_00 (34:29):
a way.
I'll add it to the site here.
Oh, thank you.
Tommy, this has been reallygreat.
Again, I hope this is, I knowit's a continuation of a long
friendship and workingrelationship as well, so I'm
really grateful.
Yeah,
SPEAKER_02 (34:44):
well, thanks for doing this, too.
This is, you know, from Casey'sas an arts writer, has seen this
kind of a little bit of lull inthe creative information that we
could digest as far as in printor web-based media for art.
And I'm hoping that, you know,stuff like what you're doing, I
(35:04):
hope you continue to do thisbecause I've got that need.
I want to hear what my other artbuddies are up to.
So please keep doing this,Melissa.
I'm excited to talk to you andexcited to hear more.
SPEAKER_00 (35:17):
Well, thank you so much, and we'll be in touch.
This is Melissa RichardsonBanks, and I'm closing out
today.
This is Mused, LADU.
This is Melissa Richardson Banks.
Welcome to Mused LADU.
This is a podcast dedicated tothe idea of the literal and
(00:22):
figurative journey between LosAngeles and Houston, where I
lived in LA for 25 years andHouston now for the past four.
And I have a really great guesttoday, someone that I met who
actually took a journey of hisown when I met him and is doing
some really wonderful things.
My guest today is Tommy Gregory.
Tommy, are you on?
SPEAKER_02 (00:39):
I'm here.
Thank you so much.
SPEAKER_00 (00:41):
Oh, great.
So, Tommy, you're an artist anda curator, and you were just
sharing with me, very similar tome in that you have a, maybe
you're bi-coastal, if you will.
It's your Gulf Coast and WestCoast now, correct?
SPEAKER_02 (00:53):
Yeah, I still have a pretty good presence in Houston
and based primarily here inSeattle.
So, I feel like I'm definitelybi-coastal, but I'm a Houston
and Seattle-based artist andcurator.
SPEAKER_00 (01:05):
And you, along with your wife, artist and writer
Casey Arguelles Gregory, andyour adorable, precocious
seven-year-old daughterClementine, who I just shared
with you recently.
I thought she was, I couldn'tbelieve she was just seven.
You now live in Seattle, butyou're back and forth between
here as well.
Well, not
SPEAKER_02 (01:24):
as back and forth as we'd like, thanks to the
coronavirus, but yes, definitelya Still have some pretty solid
roots in Houston, but we areloving Seattle and making the
best of a beautiful place duringthe COVID-19 era.
SPEAKER_00 (01:41):
I'm glad to...
I've been...
Well, I met you, I guess, rightbefore you, literally probably a
week or two before you guysmoved.
We were just talking about thatthe other day, in 2018?
Yeah,
SPEAKER_02 (01:52):
yeah.
We met...
Basically, a week and a halfbefore I moved, but I'm so glad
we kept in touch.
It was a crazy time when we wereleaving.
It's a crazy time now.
SPEAKER_00 (02:05):
Oh, yeah, and I remember.
So when we first met, we wereintroduced by Volker Eisler from
the Artscan Gallery, and I knowhe was your partner and
collaborator on a project that Iwas introduced to when I first
moved to Houston in 2016.
I didn't realize that was thefirst year.
It was Sculpture Month Houston.
And tell me a little bit
SPEAKER_02 (02:25):
about that.
Yeah, it was actually the, itwas the second part of the
biennial.
So we started the first year in2016.
And then the, yeah, we met on,it was basically the biggest one
to, you know, we hoped theywould get bigger, of course.
But it was, yeah, 2018 was thesecond part of that biennial.
And then this year, 2020 wassupposed to be, but I don't know
(02:49):
because of the coronavirus, whatthe future of, that a Houston
Sculpture Month program mightend up becoming.
SPEAKER_00 (02:58):
And now how timely would it be now?
I mean, the idea that people arelooking for things to do and to
get out in the cars and to goout and be safe, but to see art.
So I really hope that it comesback in some form or fashion.
That
SPEAKER_02 (03:12):
is something interesting with public art is
we're in a time where museums,for the most part, are limited
capacity or closed.
Galleries are limited capacityor closed.
And public art right now is atits most important time, in my
opinion.
It's something where you coulddrive by it.
It's something where you couldwear your mask and walk and see
it and have social distance inmind, but also get some visual
(03:36):
culture.
SPEAKER_00 (03:37):
Kind of prophetically, the last show
that I saw that you did here inHouston was earlier this year.
I saw it, I think, on the lastday that it was on view.
And it was called EverythingLasts Forever, which...
I think as I looked at the show,was really tongue-in-cheek
because of the idea that it hadso many different elements in
(03:58):
it.
I'd like you to talk a littlebit about that.
That body of work was a seriesof cast bronze sculptures, and
among them were...
Why don't you roll it over toyou now?
Tell me a little bit about thepieces, and did they indeed last
forever?
SPEAKER_02 (04:12):
Well, taking objects that are destined for...
the landfill or in a lot ofthose cases from the condom
wrappers, it's not condomwrappers, but the condoms that
are still enclosed.
These were kind of single-useobjects.
And by kind of immortalizingthem in bronze, it's pretty
(04:34):
evident that, you know, nothinglasts forever, obviously, in a
manner of speaking, right?
So everything lasts forever wasa tongue-in-cheek title.
But the work in the show, Imean, it had a lot of
implications, um, from politicalinnuendo to, um, environmental
concerns, um, you know,discussing single use objects,
(04:55):
but then the shoes, uh, in aweird way, like there's a shoe
culture where, you know, youmight buy a shoe, wear it once
and hang it on a wall and neverwear it again.
Or you just get rid of them.
Like the one that I cast inbronze, which was, uh, somebody
sold on eBay for$14, but theshoe when it originally came out
was over 300.
So it's, It's really funny, justlike the destiny of objects, but
(05:16):
also the beauty in changing thematerial and the way the public
interacts with it.
And actually, it's no longerused in the same fashion.
It's only used in a visualsense.
It's something you could enjoyvisually and not wear out.
But I hope that people...
took more out of it than whatwas on the surface of that show.
(05:39):
I enjoyed the way the gallerypresented all of the work.
It was extremely elegant.
And, you know, I hope that, Idon't know, it's a body of work
that I want to continuallyinvestigate because I do love
Castrol.
SPEAKER_00 (05:54):
You know, I grew up in a, not a small town, but I
guess I'm from Flower Bluff,Texas.
I don't know if you know, it'sright between Padre Island and
Corpus Christi.
And I didn't go to a museumuntil I was, well, they didn't
really have a museum untillater, right before I left.
It had a little small historymuseum and then later became
what is now the Art Museum inSouth Texas.
(06:15):
So my museum career started inLos Angeles and I started with a
history museum back in 1993.
And so my, you know, that kindof the history and the identity
and when they actually have thisinterpretation.
It's kind of interesting to mebecause I love the presentations
that are at Great Contemporary,but I really wanted to have this
conversation with you becausehaving this history background
(06:39):
but also wanting to understandart because I'm not an art
historian and I really want toappreciate art and I do art
marketing so I really want tohelp people understand that's
why I was really interested inchatting with you too because
the pieces were there and it wasa beautifully elegant
presentation but what I hungeredfor and that's why I called you
too is I wanted to know moreabout these amazing the back
(07:02):
story of this because I love andappreciate going to an art
museum and Being at its purest,which I think is done so well at
Great Contemporary, where peoplejust appreciate the art without
having someone tell them aboutit.
But I'm also this person thatwants to be told, and then I can
still interpret my own way andtake it that way.
It's kind of like the one piecethat you know that I loved in
(07:24):
the show is the lever soap.
I think that, and I was like,oh, what's this soap?
And then it had even moremeaning now after COVID because
I was like, oh, I really wantthat piece, right?
And I think you said, right?
And I think there was anotherone too.
You said you did a glasssculpture earlier that was, was
it the dove soap or?
SPEAKER_02 (07:44):
Well, I did a dove soap.
Yeah, there was, I did a doveout of glass.
And, you know, that was, myfirst casting in glass, I worked
with a really great, um, uh, Iwould say he's definitely a
sculptor, but he's more thanjust a, he's one of those
artists.
You can't kind of pigeonholeinto saying you're a sculptor,
(08:05):
you're a glass artist.
He does it all.
But, uh, Weston Lambert and heshowed me how to cast glass and
we cast this stuff.
So, but it was initially becausethere's something that we're
forgetting, especially somebodywho came from a border, uh,
close to the U S Mexican border.
Um, the, the terribleimmigration laws we have going
on right now and the story thatcame out in that small town
(08:26):
facility, that ICE facility,where they weren't allowing the
basically prisoners, theimmigrants, any soap.
So I felt like the dove soap wasbeing upside down too, so the
peace symbol of the dove is kindof flipped upside down, meant
something to me there, but thenit's evolved because As soon as
(08:48):
that show ended, we got hit withthe coronavirus of the soap,
which kind of meant one thingdepending on how the viewer
looks at it.
Some people look at it just in aweird way.
Soap, when you have it in amaterial that doesn't degrade,
it's a very elegant object.
It's almost like an EllsworthKelly painting, very simple and
geometric.
UNKNOWN (09:09):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (09:09):
Anyway, yeah, it's taken on a new life because
we've been washing our handsmethodically since March.
I mean, those of us who werelucky enough to.
And...
I don't know.
I feel like my pieces always dothat.
I feel like I've been lucky thatway.
And where my eyes and my artinterests kind of start to align
and what I want to make is, Iremember doing a piece on toilet
(09:33):
paper many, many years ago.
And now I have friends repostingthat when the whole country was
having a toilet paper shortage.
It's just weird how art...
You know, you can explain it allyou want, but it's going to
change over
SPEAKER_00 (09:48):
time.
And I really appreciate thatbecause I think that's what I
really needed to hear for myselfbecause, again, I kept thinking,
oh, I want someone to tell meand then I can get my
interpretation.
But your work in particular hasjust made it for me to
understand the fact that, again,it does change.
It can change with yourenvironment.
It can change with your point ofview.
And then, again, meaning youhave an intent when you are
(10:11):
creating it, but...
The intent has changed andevolved.
And now we can have this wholenew meaning.
And how beautiful is that?
So again, I really learned a lotjust by your show because of
that and because of what'shappened afterwards.
And it shows the longevity ofyour work, which I think is
really awesome too.
Thank
SPEAKER_02 (10:30):
you.
And I feel like I learned thatfrom having good mentors and
good professors and just peoplethat artists, friends that I
admire and seeing the successesin their work or some of the
works that, you know, made onsurface level, not seem, you
know, to be striking at all onall the hot points.
And then you find out over time,like, gosh, you know, they
(10:53):
really had it, you know, theyreally had an amazing idea and
saw it to fruition becausesometimes pieces are, are beyond
their time, I think.
And, you know, I worked withLouisa Menes, very amazing
artist.
painter, sculptor, printmaker,artist extraordinaire, you know,
out of the Southwest area.
He taught at University ofHouston when I was an undergrad
there.
And I think that was one of histhings he kind of challenged me
(11:15):
with was like a, you know,finding what motivates you to
make work other than beauty, butnever forget the formal kind of
power of making an objectbecause that's what makes it, it
kind of transcends and goesbeyond what we intended to be as
the maker.
And it also reaches peoplebecause you don't want to make
work that's completelyone-sided.
(11:38):
So if you're trying to make amessage that wants, like the
piece I had on HeightsBoulevard, I always thought was
a really good example ofsomething that people look at
both sides of a politicalspectrum or a a worldview
spectrum where they seesomething and they could get
something out of it, even thoughmy message is completely my own.
So I don't know if you'refamiliar with that piece, but it
was a bench and it was a benchthat was cut in the shape of the
(12:01):
United States.
Pretty plain as day.
It wasn't really hiding thatshape at all.
It was a water jet cut clean asa whistle.
And inside the state or thecountry, the shape of the
country, it said, made for youand me.
you know, the Woody Guthriesong, this land is your land,
this land is my land, right?
But on the southern border ofthat bench, which is what made
(12:24):
it a bench, because you can leanagainst this, was a 12-foot tall
fence, all made out of squaretubing.
And, you know, this is right onHeights Boulevard, a prominent
area of Houston, Texas, and youknow, people from all political
backgrounds and socioeconomicbackgrounds run on that Heights
Boulevard area.
It doesn't matter your economicstance.
(12:44):
I mean, that's a very popularspot to go and just enjoy the
outdoors.
Anyway, my point is, is that Iremember hearing people who were
right-leaning human beings beinglike, Oh, that's really cool.
You know, cause they, they madefor you and me and they just,
they saw something that I didnot intend.
Right.
And then, you know, anybody whowas, who was kind of empathetic
and cautious to our borderissues and our immigration
(13:05):
issues in the country, um, theysaw the, you know, what was a
fairly evident, uh, monolithic,uh, monstrosity and having this,
this big overly done backing tothis, that was implying to the
separation between our, our, youknow, neighbors to the South.
And, um, Anyway, there's a lotof people who didn't see either
(13:28):
one of those things.
They saw a big old bench, and ifit wasn't a super sunny day,
people would take a little loadoff between their runs.
SPEAKER_00 (13:36):
So you mentioned the Heights Boulevard project.
That's the one that was, Ithink, co-curated by a variety
of people, but one in particularwe have a mutual friend is Gus
Capriva of Redbud Gallery.
Yeah.
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (13:48):
Yeah, Gus definitely involved in giving me that
opportunity, but also was verysupportive from an engineering
standpoint.
He actually has stanced myengineering drawings, which made
the piece completely possible.
But, yeah, Gus is amazing, andthat's public art to, you know,
doing what public art should dois that project there that's an
(14:09):
annual project I'm so glad it'sfunded and it gets good support
locally and evidently regionallybecause they're expanding beyond
the Houston borders but it hassome great artists I mean Joe
Havel has done it Sharon Caprivahas done it Paul Kittleson was
one of the first artists thereLee Littlefield um I actually,
if I'm not mistaken, I think Iwas driving by and I actually
(14:32):
helped move a couple sculpturesbecause I was living in that
neighborhood at the time,renting in that neighborhood,
and Yeah, it was a really funthing that started in 2014.
I'm so glad it's strong going.
At that time, I spent five yearsin San Antonio, and I'd only
been back in Houston for twoyears.
And I was already eyeballingthat space when I saw that Gus
(14:54):
and I think it was ChrisSilkwood collaborated to make
that happen for the HeightsBoulevard project.
And I was just, you know,fingers crossed I would be able
to do it.
So to be able to be an artistincluded before I moved and
relocated to to Seattle was areally big honor.
SPEAKER_00 (15:10):
You mentioned San Antonio, and I recall you did
your MFA at the University ofTexas in San Antonio, and that's
where we also had some mutualfriends, too, in the art world.
Joseph Cohen, Vincent Valdez,Ricky Armendariz, and probably
others.
You were there for your master'sdegree, but I think you also
(15:31):
worked in public art there aswell.
Is that Tell me a little bitabout that.
I
SPEAKER_02 (15:35):
did, yeah.
Melissa, that's one of the greatthings about the art world.
It makes the whole worldsmaller.
It's a very tight community in away and very open.
And San Antonio was extremelyopen.
And You know, I was there for acouple of years for grad school
where I got to actually have aTA for Ricky.
(15:56):
And, you know, I was working.
I was working at Blue Star whilein graduate school there.
And that's where I met Vincentand Vince Valdez.
And when I got out of graduateschool, I applied for a public
art project and didn't get it.
But the director of the programsaw me at an opening and was
(16:17):
like, hey, you know, I reallyliked your proposal.
sorry you didn't get it.
Would you be interested in ajob?
So that was my intro to becominga public art administrator.
I ended up applying for that jobthat he talked about and got
hired and has been doing itbasically ever since.
SPEAKER_00 (16:35):
And then that's when you went as we were the public
art program director and thencurator for Houston Airports and
of course now senior
SPEAKER_02 (16:41):
manager.
We met when I was handling the,yeah, the Houston Air Force
SPEAKER_00 (16:46):
system.
Definitely the power couple,because your wife is an artist
and also an amazing writer,writer for the arts.
And I don't know what others, Ijust know her work writing about
the arts.
And your daughter is verytalented.
Clementine, oh, my God.
Tell me a little bit about it.
I want to segue real quickbecause I was looking on
Facebook, and I saw that youwere inspired to make this work
(17:11):
of art that was an ordinaryobject that's definitely on
everyone's mind right now, whichis dealing with the United
States Postal Service.
So talk a little bit about that.
SPEAKER_02 (17:23):
Yeah.
So, you know, this is a toughdilemma.
I know that you're going to havea lot of artists listening to
this, and they're going toconnect, I believe, with my
conundrum.
If you're being sociallyresponsible and caring about
everybody around you, you'retrying to social distance and
quarantine as much as possible.
(17:43):
Casey is anybody who's met us.
She's the brains in the family.
She's brilliant.
She's a great writer, greatpainter, and we're both trying
to stake creative.
And we have a little one herewho is also just, you know,
she's seven years old and she'sliving in one of the most
beautiful places in the world,right next to Lake, not right
next to Lake Washington, butwe're, you know, a nice little
hike away from Lake Washington.
So it's hard to enjoy theoutdoors to a certain degree.
(18:06):
It's hard.
She's made every kind of artproject you could think of
inside our little, a little 900square foot place where we're
living in Seattle.
And I lost my studio through tosome developers took over the
studio that, so it's just beena, It's been a nightmare for us
to try to stay creative.
I shouldn't say a nightmare, butit's been difficult.
And so Casey's finding her wayto do it.
(18:29):
Clementine's finding hers.
And her and I together weredriving and driving back from my
office through the Port ofSeattle at Pier 69.
And we were driving back and Isaw a USPS car.
postal box and I was just like Itold Clementine in the backseat
I'm like hey we're going to makea stop and I knew a few blocks
(18:51):
over was a Lowe's we pulled overto Lowe's and I bought some
hardware just did the math in mymind and I was like I think this
will work I spent$70 in lumberand yeah and I built the kind of
very it was just a great itch toscratch because I needed to make
something I've been making smallworks in our little place but it
wasn't really scratching thatitch so I think that because I'm
very much worried about ourdemocracy and the fate of our
(19:16):
kind of election coming up andjust also the safety of human
beings, being able to vote bymail.
We do it here in WashingtonState.
It's extremely efficient andvery, very convenient.
I feel it's like a safe thingand it works.
I hope everybody gets to do it.
And if we do preserve our postalservice, we should be able to do
it.
So this idea obviously generatedfrom that.
I saw it on the street and Ireally just had to make
(19:38):
something and I made that.
And now it's turned into alittle thing where the little
kiddo I think it has to behaving a painter for a mother,
but she did an amazingunderpainting, which she calls
it the underpaint.
So she painted it blue with alittle gallon of blue paint we
had laying around, whichactually looks really good.
It's like one of the moreclassic USPS blues, not the dark
(19:59):
blue that we see today, but itstill looks great.
Or it looks like it's beenweathered.
And we're letting her friends inthe neighborhood just kind of
tag it and work on it andAnyway, I'm glad that you saw
it.
It's cathartic in a way to havemade it, but also posted.
I didn't intend it to beartwork, or I shouldn't say
(20:19):
artwork, but I think it actuallymight be a piece that I'll be
proud to say I made, especiallyduring this era.
You and I, and not to segueagain, but we both have some
good hair farming going on.
I think that's another record oftime.
We should talk about that.
I don't know if you want tosegue to that.
(20:40):
Let's do,
SPEAKER_00 (20:41):
let's do.
SPEAKER_02 (20:42):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (20:43):
Let me just, first of all, say you have a head of
hair.
SPEAKER_02 (20:49):
I, I work, uh, I swear I get like some negative
vibes from some of my malecoworkers.
And I talked to some otherfriends at work and they're
like, well, it's cause they'reall bald.
And you got this giant head ofhair on every zoom in Microsoft
teams meeting we're doing.
So I was like, I don't, it's notmy fault.
And the reason it's growing is Ithink I told you, my mom's a
(21:11):
hairdresser and she was a, She'sbeen the only one really to cut
my hair.
I've had one other haircut froman uncle, like when I was two,
maybe.
But other than that, the onlyperson to ever touch my head is,
well, aside from Casey shavingit, which she wants to do so
badly.
And I keep telling her to leaveit alone, just let it grow until
I can see my mom again.
And that'll be the time I getcut.
But yeah, it's growing.
It's like a helmet.
(21:32):
I could jump off our roof andprobably be fine.
SPEAKER_00 (21:34):
No, it's a great head of hair.
You know, my head of hair hasdefined me in so many ways.
And so...
Over the years and I've beenhesitant to move from that honey
gold blonde that I was born withthat I eventually started toying
with in my late 30s and 40s as Iwas transitioning.
(21:56):
And I knew that I was at thetime.
My hair was not changing like mymother.
My mother has a beautiful headof white hair.
Her hair is beautiful.
And my sister has beautiful saltand pepper.
It's more silver.
And mine just wasn't there.
And I tried to do it last year.
And then like you, when thisCOVID happened in the
(22:17):
quarantining, it became definingfor me to just let it go.
And in fact, I kept saying, I'mnot going to cut it until this
is over.
And, you know, it's blendingnicely.
I said, I'm going to be a silverand gold hair.
hippie by the time this is over.
It'll have the gold roots andthe silver, you know, so I mean,
gold ends in the silver roots.
And, you know, I'm kind of, it'simportant, it's a time keeper or
(22:41):
record of what's happening aswell.
And it's also kind of depictswhat I'm going through in terms
of change like we all are.
We're all going through so muchgrowth during this time.
I love that your mom's ahairdresser.
I think that's awesome too.
So I hope that you get to seeyour mom soon, safely and
(23:03):
whenever.
I'm sure Casey is hoping you'llsee her soon because you could
get your hair cut.
SPEAKER_02 (23:09):
Well, I like it and I love yours.
I mean, I think that there's anatural look that you're going
with.
I think you were strawberryblonde when I met you.
Yeah.
But yeah, I mean, let it grow.
Let it grow and let's see whatkind of silver streaks you get
because I'm definitely owningmine.
I'm definitely more silver thanI am dark-haired now.
(23:31):
But, you know, this is the era.
Let it be a record of time.
SPEAKER_00 (23:37):
No, I think that's really, really exciting.
We also had some connections.
So when you moved to Seattle, wecontinued– getting to know each
other via email and phone.
And I think you actually came,you and Casey and Clementine
came to LA when I was producinga couple of private collector
(23:57):
events for art news magazine inconjunction with the launch of
freeze in Los Angeles.
And that was in February, 2019.
And then I, I, you know, I thinkat that point, I didn't realize,
and I don't know if you defineyourself, your identity as
Chicano, but I didn't know yourheritage, and I think that's
when I finally went, oh, TommyGregory, it just was not the
(24:22):
name that I felt like I, that I,and that sounds really bad from
this white girl here, but I justdidn't, know your what you who
you identified or what you whatyou considered your identity and
if because of that event you gotto meet Cheech and Gijun and
that's how it all kind of theconversation started so I'll
stop there and talk to you aboutidentity
SPEAKER_02 (24:43):
well you know I identify as a I'm a mixed race
um individual and uh I wasalways kind of like I'm kind of
proud like you know probably notthe right word but half Irish
half Mexican I feel like there'sa lot of um similarities between
those two cultures more thanpeople would probably connect on
the surface.
But yeah, I mean, I was raisedin a, you know, Chicano was a
(25:07):
word that, you know, I thinkthat from a revolution during a
more revolutionary time was aword that was used.
So in the late 80s when I waskind of understanding where I
kind of sat as a mixed raceperson, I think that term kind
of was coming in and out inTexas, right?
Somebody did a good marketingprogram and started dubbing
(25:30):
everybody Hispanic and having achick Hispanic on, uh, on your,
um, um, you know, school sheetsand such.
But, um, no, I mean, I'm proudto be, um, you know, kind of a
biracial person and connect tothe multicultural, um, um, you
know, sides of this country.
And, uh, the work is a littlebit inspired by that, but, um, I
(25:54):
mean, to be able to go toCheech's house is like going to
Mecca in a way for an artperson, you know, you go to a
place where he's got, uh, fromthe De La Torre brothers who
thankfully, you know, throughyou, I met them and became very
familiar with their work.
Uh, I knew their work before,but it became even more
engrossing.
As a matter of fact, like we're,uh, we, we saw each other
because of another, um, aconnection you made with us with
(26:15):
Elena Del Rio.
Um, I saw the brothers, what,maybe three weeks ago here in
Seattle.
It was a fantastic hangout Iwant to say it was probably the
first hangout artistface-to-face interaction I've
had since we all went onlockdown so it was it was just
an emotional time for me to beable to talk art Casey was with
us too and his really fun to beable to talk to them.
(26:37):
But yeah, because of you, Ireally got to thank you for
those, having the strong networkand sharing it and connecting
people.
You know, you're, you're,there's no way that I'm the
first person to tell you that.
And I won't be the last, butyou're like just awesome at, at,
you know, kind of well meldingthese, these communities
together and letting us knowwe're all here together and
working, trying to, to, youknow, elevate the art world in
(27:01):
the way that I guess the worldperceives work in the United
States in this millennia.
What is it?
What era are we in now?
Who knows what this era is goingto be known as.
But I think it's good that wehave people like you, Cheech,
the De La Torre brothers, all ofour networks in Texas, kind of
all getting to know each otherand getting to know each other's
(27:22):
work.
It's a fun, odd time.
SPEAKER_00 (27:26):
Well, it's interesting because I actually
started my career in what wastermed as Hispanic marketing in
Texas.
And when I finally moved to LosAngeles years later, people kept
saying, how are you, like, how'dyou get involved with the
Chicano community?
And for me, I felt it was acommunity that felt most
(27:47):
connected.
connected to me as being a Texanbecause in Texas you take the
German immigrant history and theMexican immigrant history and
you shake it all up that's Texasand that's being Texan and it's
a little bit there's so much ofthis again this melding again of
these communities if you willand when I've later met Cheech
(28:11):
through Richard Duardo, may herest in peace, a great,
wonderful master printer andartist himself.
But I did a project with themand Cheech, at that very big
gathering at Plaza de la Rosa inLA, saying should mean as an
honorary Chicana, so at least Ihave.
Somebody gave me that, but Istill am a white girl from
(28:33):
Texas, but I really appreciateand support the community and
working in this world, so it's agood thing for me, and I really
appreciate it, and I'm gratefulfor that.
SPEAKER_02 (28:45):
You know, it's weird.
I think that the art world islike the great equalizer.
Did you ever ride a motorcycle,or did you ever have a
motorcycle?
SPEAKER_00 (28:54):
Yes, my father made cars and motorcycles So I am
definitely,
SPEAKER_02 (29:00):
you know how there, there's a culture there where
like, um, at least for me, likeat least when you're on it, I
remember when I was in graduateschool, I was lucky to have one.
Cause my, my dad had a, I don'tknow if he listens to this,
he'll get mad, but I thinkmidlife crisis, but he bought
himself, he always rode bikes,but he, when he, when he got a
little older, he bought himselfa little sport bike.
And, uh, my mom was like, takethis to San Antonio with you.
(29:21):
Cause he was in Houston and hekept like hurting himself on it.
So I basically stole hismotorcycle and wrote it while I
was in graduate school.
And, uh, but, but, but drivingbetween, you know, Houston and
San Antonio.
And then our, we have my folks,uh, a little family farm in
Bastrop.
I'd be driving on the road, youknow, small town, Texas
highways.
And, um, you get the wave, youknow what I mean?
(29:42):
So like, you know, as the motor,you're, you're a motorcycle on
the other side of the one way,I'm on the other and they just
give you a nice little, nicelittle wave.
And it's like, it's like the artworld to me.
It's like where you're a part ofa club and it doesn't matter if
you're Hispanic, Mexican,Chicano, white, black, it
doesn't matter because we're alllike in this, in this thing
together.
Kind of like, I wish the rest ofthe world would be like
(30:02):
professions shouldn't really bethe things to dictate that
because in reality, artists are,I think we become connected not
only to our peers, but also ourcollectors and people that show
us support and help guide ourcareers as well, from curators
to public art administrators.
We collect these networks ofpeople and we try to foster
(30:25):
them.
There's a very human thing thathappens when the creative
economies and people interestedin the creative field start to
work together and live lifetogether and become kind of in
tune with social media as muchas I think it's extremely
(30:47):
problematic in a lot of ways.
It's opened the door to peopleto see my daughter.
I have collectors who are like,God, it's so fun to see her grow
up.
I met her when I bought thispiece of yours in 2014 and she
was just a baby.
You know what I mean?
I don't know.
There's something about thatwhere I I'm hoping that, I don't
know, there's the power of artfrom our earlier discussion
(31:11):
talking about public art and howit's needed right now because of
the quarantine and COVID-19, butalso just, you know, these kind
of networks that we've madetogether and that we're going
to, I'm sure, foster for yearsto come.
I just hope the kind of vibespreads and we get to do shows
together and, you see our hairgrow together that'll be fun
SPEAKER_00 (31:35):
we'll have to definitely have our uh before
and after photos of you you doyours i'll do mine and we'll
post them together at the end ofthis because there's going to be
an insight
SPEAKER_02 (31:45):
we'll have to you do you i sent you one so you show
yours and then when we get uhhopefully we'll have some kind
of treatment or vaccine and wecould have that picture together
in person
SPEAKER_00 (31:55):
i would love that i would love that Well, I think
this has been an amazingconversation, and it's one of
these things that you and I, wetalked about the other day.
We could talk just on and onbecause there's just so much, so
many things that I think weenjoy and enjoy your family and,
of course, all the connectionswe've had together.
One last thing before we wrap uptoday.
(32:16):
I was just curious, do you havean update, an upcoming show or
project that you're proud ofthat you'd like to talk about?
Is there anything coming up thatwe should know?
SPEAKER_02 (32:24):
Well, I'm very proud to say I've been accepted for a
residency at Pilchuck GlassSchool.
And again, I have to give you alittle kudos there because it
was a connection made throughthe brothers who you helped
foster there and then throughBen Wright, who's the exhibit
(32:47):
coordinator.
I didn't see his title.
He's either a director, exhibitsdirector there.
But he invited me to be anartist in residence.
And because of the coronavirus,it was postponed until 2021.
So it's supposed to happen thissummer.
But I'm still excited at that.
That's something, you know,just...
from living in the PacificNorthwest to be at Pilchuck is
(33:10):
to me the creme de la creme it'sthe top of the top of the top
and I'm just so happy to Ivisited the school before the
coronavirus happened so I wasable to go see what the
facilities were like and Iguarantee I'm going to make some
amazing things there and lookforward to working with the
specialists they have andgetting to know artists and
other artists and residents butyeah that's still in the books
I'm looking forward to that andI'm currently in a show in
(33:32):
Houston right now Melissa atGray I mean they I recently
started representing my work inthe Houston market, and I'm in
their Black Lives Matter show,which is simply titled Matter.
And that's up until the end ofthe month, I believe.
SPEAKER_00 (33:50):
I'll be sure and put all that into the promotional
materials and stuff and shareit.
I'll put links.
Your website isTommyGregory.com?
SPEAKER_02 (33:59):
Yeah, and it's kind of, I'm a Luddite, so it's been
abandoned for a little years.
They have, I think the only workon there is my confessional that
I showed at Redbud and then aneon piece I showed at the
Williams Tower.
But Instagram handles prettygood.
I kind of try to stay on top ofthings there.
I think the Instagram is TommyGregory TXWA or WATX.
(34:25):
It's Texas or Washington.
I'm a dual resident in
SPEAKER_00 (34:29):
a way.
I'll add it to the site here.
Oh, thank you.
Tommy, this has been reallygreat.
Again, I hope this is, I knowit's a continuation of a long
friendship and workingrelationship as well, so I'm
really grateful.
Yeah,
SPEAKER_02 (34:44):
well, thanks for doing this, too.
This is, you know, from Casey'sas an arts writer, has seen this
kind of a little bit of lull inthe creative information that we
could digest as far as in printor web-based media for art.
And I'm hoping that, you know,stuff like what you're doing, I
(35:04):
hope you continue to do thisbecause I've got that need.
I want to hear what my other artbuddies are up to.
So please keep doing this,Melissa.
I'm excited to talk to you andexcited to hear more.
SPEAKER_00 (35:17):
Well, thank you so much, and we'll be in touch.
This is Melissa RichardsonBanks, and I'm closing out
today.
This is Mused, LADU.
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