SON CUATRO | Cheech in Conversation with Judithe Hernández

In this episode of the "Son Cuatro: In Conversation" podcast, artist Judithe Hernández talks with art advocate Cheech Marin; Todd Wingate, Director of Exhibitions and Collections at Riverside Art Museum; Edward Hayes, Exhibitions Senior Manager, McNay Art Museum in San Antonio, Texas; Charlene Villaseñor Black, Professor of Art History and Chicana/o Studies at the University of California, Los Angeles; editor of Aztlán: A Journal of Chicano Studies, and founding editor-in-chief of Latin American and Latinx Visual Culture; and arts marketing specialist Melissa Richardson Banks of CauseConnect, the producer and moderator of this series who also manages Marin's notable Chicano art collection.

Check out more in-depth articles, stories, and photographs by Melissa Richardson Banks at www.melissarichardsonbanks.com. Learn more about CauseConnect at www.causeconnect.net.

Follow Melissa Richardson Banks on Instagram as @DowntownMuse; @MUSEDhouston, and @causeconnect.

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Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
Welcome

SPEAKER_00 (00:15):
to Son Cuatro in Conversation.
This series is presented byRiverside Art Museum, a.k.a.
RAM, leading up to the openingof the Chich Marín Center for
Chicano Art and Culture, a.k.a.
The Chich.
I'm Melissa Richardson-Banks.
Today, there are four panelistsin conversation with artist
Judith Hernandez.
Cheech Mudding, entertainer,filmmaker, comedian, collector,

(00:37):
and art advocate.
Todd Wingate, director ofexhibitions and collections at
Riverside Art Museum.
Edward Hayes, exhibition seniormanager at the McNay Art Museum
in San Antonio, Texas.
And by the way, he's also thecurator of the exhibition,
Judith Hernandez, A Dream is aShadow of Something Real, which
was on view at the Museum ofLatin American Art, August 11th,
2018 through February 17th,2019.

(01:00):
We'll learn more about thatlater in today's discussion.
Charlene Villaseñor-Black, she'sa professor of art history in
Chicano Studies at theUniversity of California, Los
Angeles.
She's the editor of Aztlan, ajournal of Chicano Studies, and
the founding editor-in-chief ofLatin American and Latinx Visual
Culture at UC Press.

(01:21):
Charlene, can you sharebackground about Judith for our
audience and for Teach and allof us here, and then guide a
discussion about Judith and herwork?

SPEAKER_02 (01:29):
Thank you.
I'm delighted to do that.
So Judith Hernandez began hercareer in the early early 1970s
as a major figure of LA'sChicano arts movement, merging
activism with her artisticpractice.
Originally gaining prominence asa muralist, she became the fifth
and only female member of theart collective Los Four.

(01:50):
Over the last five decades,she's developed a studio
practice which centers aroundpastel on paper, fusing Western
and indigenous iconography withMexican and Chicana Chicano
themes.
Hernandez is included in manysignificant public and private
collections, including theMuseum of Modern Art, the

(02:11):
Smithsonian American Art Museum,the Pennsylvania Academy of Fine
Art, the National Museum ofMexican Art, the Bank of America
Collection, and now theChichamarin Center for Chicano
Art and Culture.
Recent exhibitions include WarWithin, War Without, the Museum
of Modern Art, now on displaythrough November 2021, and Life

(02:36):
Model, Charles White and HisStudents at LACMA, and that was
in 2019.
In 2016, 24 glass mosaic panelsdesigned by Hernandez for the
downtown Santa Monica MetroStation were installed.
Commissioned by the LA CountyTransportation Authority, this
suite of panels is known as LASonata.

(02:57):
And if you haven't been there, Ihighly recommend it.
It's at 4th and Colorado inSanta Monica.
And I've been most recentlywriting on these mural mosaics,
Chicana feminist tribute to thevaried multicultural influences
of the city of LA.
So I've been working with,thinking about, and writing on

(03:19):
Hernandez's work for severalyears now.
I first met her after her returnfrom living in Chicago here in
LA, not too many years ago.
And when I took over as theeditor of Aslan, a journal of
Chicano studies, which was inJanuary of 2016, I discovered

(03:39):
that she had been the firstartist for the journal doing all
of the early covers.
And this led me to reallyrealize in a profound way her
importance in the Chicanomovement as an artist, an
activist, printmaker, muralist,and as a member of Los Four.
In 2017, Her work was exhibitedalongside that of Patsy Valdez

(04:05):
in the Miller Cheats Gallery,and this is that One Path, Two
Journeys show.
And I was just awestruck by herjust superb pastel works.
These lush pastels focus on thehuman, often female, figure and
draw us into their dreamscapes.
They tempt us with their complexsymbolism and archetypal

(04:26):
imagery.
Her handling of the nude humanform is superb and creates
universal resonances for hervaried viewers.
Her work dazzles us with itspower, but it also forces us to
think and to engage with it.
And now before we turn it overto Cheech, I would like to turn

(04:48):
to Curator Eddie Hayes to havehim say a few words about this
more recent show that was atMOLA featuring Judith's work.

SPEAKER_06 (04:58):
Thank you, Charlene.
And thanks to the Cheech and theRiverside Art Museum for the
opportunity here to participatein this discussion.
I had the tremendous, tremendoushonor of working with Judith and
from about 2016, I think that'sreally when the project began

(05:20):
through 2018 on Judith's soloexhibition at MOLA, the Museum
of Latin American Art in LongBeach.
The only museum in the countrydedicated exclusively to modern
and contemporary Latin Americanart.
So just was so happy to make,you know, to see Judith make
history there as the firstChicana artist.

(05:41):
to have a solo presentationafter 20 I think 22 years of the
museum focusing exclusively onthe work of Latin American
artists and not you know havingthe opportunity to work yet with
artists of Latino descentworking in the U.S.
which would exclude everyChicano artist on the planet at

(06:02):
least in the U.S.
and So that was a tremendoushonor.
And, you know, just more, I'dsay more specifically about the
project.
I want to say that it was in2016 when Judith, at least, was
first on my radar as an artistthat was, you know, that I was
aware was living and workingactively in Los Angeles.

(06:25):
And the exhibition was, youknow, really, we can talk about
more of this later, and I'd loveto hear from Judith on this, but
I think it was something of ahomecoming that was celebrated
at that time, at that solopresentation.
We had, I think, 21, 22 largepastels on view.
We had some incrediblesketchbook drawings from the

(06:49):
late 70s, early 80s.
We had some ephemera that helpedtell a little bit of Judith's
history, a little bit of herpast, touching upon Judith
documenting the LA walkouts whenshe was in high school.
So those photographs, thatrecord growing up in LA was kind

(07:09):
of a key piece to the originstory of this incredible artist.
But the exhibition, in terms ofthe homecoming aspect, I have to
say was really about a recentbody of work that was building
up so much momentum since,again, about 2016, 2017.
Judith, correct me if I'm wrong,but I think there were probably

(07:31):
four or five pastels that were,I think, in progress six months
before the show opened.
There was this wave of energy,of creativity, and we were able
to open with five or six, Ithink, pastels that no one had
ever seen before.
And, you know, Charlene, I thinkas you so eloquently described

(07:53):
Judith's work, I'm not going totry to sum it up the way you
just did, but really, you know,I want to speak something, I
want to say something, I want toaddress the title of the show
because there is an element ofJudith's work that although
it's, you know, so rooted insocial justice issues, it's so

(08:14):
rooted in, you know, aU.S.-Mexican-American Chicana
experience.
At the same time, there's this,as you described, this
universality to the work, whichreally opens it up.
And the title of the show is ADream is the Shadow of Something

(08:35):
Real.
And as someone who doesn'treally remember their dreams,
somehow I've In my career inmuseums, I've worked with
surrealism and I've worked withso many artists that are just,
that draw from that dreammaterial.
And I really feel that, Judith,the work that I saw at the time

(08:56):
and that we were working withand showing was work that had
this incredible shadow playgoing on.
There was so much mystery and...
I have to say, I don't want tosay it was all veiled, but it
definitely was like waking upafter a really intense dream and
just kind of telling somebodyabout it.

(09:18):
And I felt like that is thefirst impression of the work
that was on view then.
And then, you know, through theprogramming, through the texts,
through incredible scholars likeCharlene, through collector's
accounts, and through theexperience of just seeing the
work, all of these othernarratives unfold.

(09:41):
So, and I hope we can get intosome of those in this
conversation, but I guess that'sme characterizing what this
exhibition was, at least in mypost 2020 memory, which anything
before 2020 is super hazy.

(10:02):
So Judith, how was your, I wantto hear from you.
I mean, how do you recall thatexhibition now?

SPEAKER_03 (10:09):
You were wonderful to work with, number one.
You know, I saw how young youlooked when you walked in.
I thought, my God, this person'sfrom high school.
But you were so smart.
We had so many things in commonafter we met.
We talked about a mutual Chicagoexperience and that, you know,
you're originally from Texas.
My mother's from Texas.

(10:30):
Um, so, you know, I, I felt, youknow, very, um, you know, a
kindred kind of spirit.
And, and I, I, um, I alsoappreciate it.
And I think, you know, I thinkwomen, women artists can talk to
this, you know, they're, um,they're not often treated with
the same level of respect andregard, you know, by

(10:51):
institutions, uh, just the way,you know, the art of women has
not been treated with respectand regard, you know, since
forever.
Um, And so, you know, meetingyou and feeling that, you know,
that you were, you had this, youknow, you were really dedicated
to, you know, organizing, youknow, this look into, you know,

(11:16):
my work and the origins of mycareer with such, you know,
interest and regard for tellingthe truth and for being very
respectful, and I reallyappreciated that.
I thought you were terrific towork with.
But one of the payoffs has been,I think, especially in the last,
just as I was leaving Chicago, Iam 73 years old now.

(11:39):
I was 62 when I left Chicago.
And about my 60s was the timewhen I was rekindling my vision
for where I was going next as anartist.
And I think that when you reacha certain age, hopefully you've
reached a level of maturity thatallows you to be more honestly

(12:04):
introspective and more intenselycurious, actually, about things
that you didn't have time forwhen you were younger.
And I think that the work thatI've been doing since my return,
starting in Chicago and myreturn to Los Angeles, has
allowed me to think about mywork in a more universal way.

(12:25):
And it's been very gratifying tohave women from around the
world, you know, contact methrough my website and say, you
know, how much they relate tothe work.
As far away as India, a youngHindu woman wrote a poem about
the Juwada series.
And I was so moved.
It was such a beautiful poemthat I asked her permission to
name a group of pieces in thatseries that were coming next.

(12:48):
It just seems so right.
So that connection was made, youknow, internationally.
not because she was Mexican, butbecause she was a woman.
She saw the same issues, youknow, for her, for the women in
India that she knew that I wastalking about for women at the
borderline between Mexico andthe United States.
So clearly my head is, you know,I'm not 25 years old anymore.

(13:11):
And so I think I'm trying tobenefit from my experiences and
my ongoing, never-ending searchfor You know, knowledge.
I mean, I read politics.
I read history.
I read a lot of things otherthan art, you know, that just
inform, you know, how I thinkabout the things that are

(13:31):
contemporary and how often thosethings, you know, reoccur only
with a different set of peoplein a different time and
different circumstances.
So, yeah, all of that feeds whatI do.
And I think the show at MOLA wasthe first time the first look at
that.
And I really appreciated thereview by Christopher Knight

(13:54):
because he talked about thosethings.
You know, he didn't, you know,he didn't, he talked about the
way they look, but he rootedthem in the canon of Western art
as well as a contemporary womanof color, you know, living in
the 21st century of the UnitedStates talking about issues that

(14:15):
were very particular to, Soyeah, I thank you for starting
me off that way with thewonderful show you put together.
Oh

SPEAKER_06 (14:25):
my goodness, Judith.
It was incredible.
And it's definitely one of thehighlights of my career.
But this is about you.
And there's something about yourwork that, you know, in that LA
Times review by ChristopherKnight, which was very
thoughtful.
And Christopher Knight, thechief critic of the LA Times is,
He's very bright, is someone whois well-rounded in all the arts,

(14:49):
you know, so he tapped into someliterary references that are in
the titles of your work.
A Dream is the Shadow ofSomething Real is a quote from a
film and it has roots in poetryas well.
So I think, you know, somethingabout the work that was on the

(15:10):
walls.
And it's also behind you,Judith, and also behind
Charlene's, in Charlene'sbackground.
For those of you maybe watchingor listening, at least imagining
what we're talking about, thereis an incredible amount of
symbolism.
The imagery is so layered that,you know, once you think you

(15:30):
have a hold of it, you know,sometimes I think, okay, I've
got this U.S.-Mexico storynarrative image I think I
understand that this work isabout the women of Juarez.
Once I think I have the storydown, then you tell me the story

(15:50):
about a young Indian girl who'sconnecting to this narrative and
it just becomes, it just opensup.
And so there's this incredible,your work is so worldly.
I think that's the only way Ican put it.
And it's these discussions that,you know, I think it's what's on
your bookshelf, Judith.

(16:12):
You know, that was a source ofinspiration for, I mean, for me
to go and what's the, what arewe going to title this section?
What's this about?
What's that about?
Your intellectual curiosity isjust, I see how it fuels the
work and how it comes out indifferent ways.

SPEAKER_03 (16:33):
Yeah, you know, I always tell the young artists,
it's funny how, you know, whenI've done, you know, several
talks in the last, you know, 10years and one of them is
generally from, you know, anaudience of young artists who
say, well, do you really need togo to art school?
Do you really need to have acollege education?
And, you know, I'm amazed by thequestion because, you know, how

(16:55):
are you, what, where is yourcontent coming from if you don't
know anything?
And my mother was one of thoseamazing women who my brother and
I, for the moment, you know, wecould read, you know, dragged us
to museums, to libraries, to,you know, the whole idea that,
you know, the.
I mean, she even would say thisto us.

(17:17):
It was remarkable.
She said, you know, Shakespeareand Mozart and people like that,
they belong to you, too.
Their music, their books, theirstories are in the library.
You should read and you shouldunderstand why these people are
important, what they said, howthey said it.
I think most of the artists Iknow who I personally respect a

(17:43):
great deal and respect theirwork is because their creative
inspiration and worldview isfueled by all the things they
know.
Things from the past, thingsfrom the present, but it's a
constant search to learnsomething for me, at least every
day, that I didn't know before.

(18:05):
I mean, I'm crazy enough thatI'll just open the dictionary at
some point and look at the wordsand think, oh, I don't know this
word.
What is this word?
I mean, I think you have to holdon to that kind of curiosity.
It's almost childlike, but itserves a purpose for somebody
who's creative.
Carlos Almaraz had that kind ofchildlike curiosity that never

(18:28):
ended.
And I think when you lose that,when you lose sight of the fact
that you constantly have to feedyour creative mind, that's when
the work gets old, it getsstale, it gets repetitive.
And I try not to do that.
Thank you,

SPEAKER_06 (18:43):
Judith.
I'm going to volley here toKeith.
I have a question.
I think I shared a little bitabout how Judith came on my
radar as a curator working on avery special project.
But Keith, how did Judith comeon through your radar and what
drew you to her work?

SPEAKER_04 (19:02):
You know, I was unfamiliar with Judith's work
for the longest time until Toddand I, when they went down to
the Miller Sheets Museum, Ithink it was there on the
fairgrounds of LA and Pomona,and saw the dual show between
Judith and Patsy Valdez.
And I was thrilled to see thatmuch work as my first

(19:26):
introduction to Judith becausethere was a lot of great work in
there and I could How come Ididn't know so much about this
artist that has been around fora long time?
So I think our paths just didn'tcross or slightly crossed or
sometime during that time I wasalways either on the road or

(19:50):
doing something else.
But But I was thrilled to seethat work, and I immediately
took of what great work it was.
My question for you, and it's aparticularly Chicano art
question, is why the use ofpastel?
I know that many, many Chicanoartists delve deeply into

(20:15):
pastel.
All the people in Los Four andmany others, Leo Limon and Patsy
Valdez, a lot of artists.
Right.
why have you chosen pastel to beyour main avenue of expression?

SPEAKER_03 (20:28):
Thank you for that question.
It's because people always, Imean, they always describe
artists as painters, don't they?
Because that is the kind oftraditional historic, you know,
medium of most artists is paint.
Personally, I hate paint.
You got to clean your hands allthe time.
It's just, it's a, you got tomix it.
You got to save it.
It goes bad.

(20:48):
You open it and it's turned tomush.
I hate process.
And since the time I was achild, I was attracted not so
much to, oh gosh, how can I putthis?
The intriguing thing about lineis to learn about how to
describe a three-dimensionalform only using a line.
I think Degas, there's awonderful quote about him that

(21:12):
line describes form.
That's its job.
When I started Otis, I metCharles White.
who recognized in me that he andI were the same thing.
We were drawers.
Unfortunately, in English, thereis no good...
That's not a very romantic word,right?
Drawer.
Sounds like a drawer, right?
You put your chonies in.
That's what we do.
We draw.
We're fine artists who happen touse a drawing medium.

(21:35):
Pastel is the only drawingmedium that gives you brilliant
color to use.
And so I can continue to draw...
and still produce what they callpaintings.
And people always ask me thisquestion, well, why are pastel
paintings when there are nopaint in pastel?
I said, well, you know, the easyanswer is a surface that is

(21:56):
entirely covered with a mediumis a painting.
When you use the background, thesubstrate, you know, the paper
that's an important part of thefinished product, then you have
a drawing.
And I rarely do those anymore.
I spent a lot of time when I wasyounger doing work like that.

(22:18):
And now the surfaces ofeverything I do are completely
covered with pastel, and sothey're pastel paintings.
But it just appeals to me.
I mean, it's a beautiful way towork.
And it's when you get down toit, what makes the pastel, that
chubby little chunk of beautifulcolor that I use, is that it is

(22:41):
pure pigment.
Unfortunately, I'm in theposition now of being able to
buy the amazing kinds of productthat's made in Europe and other
places where they make it byhand.
And it is the basis of all othercolor.
Paint comes from that.
My little sticks of pastel arepure, natural color with very

(23:04):
little filler.
It's like having, you know, it'slike being mother nature and
having the ability to work with,you know, these amazing colors
that are absolutely pure andreflect light in a pure way.
The only downside, the onlydownside if you're someone who
collects pastel is light isextremely important.

(23:25):
It's like stained glass.
If you're looking, if it's adaytime, you're standing outside
the church, you know, thewindows are nothing.
But if you go inside and thelight is coming through them,
then you get this spectacularshow of color and form.
And pastel really relies onlight in order to really shine.
I don't know.
It's not for everybody.
It's very difficult to work withand get it to do what you want,

(23:48):
but...
I personally love it.

SPEAKER_04 (23:49):
One of the last things I know about pastel is
that the pastel chalk, thestick, is a very imprecise
instrument and you do veryprecise work with it, you know,
and how do you balance those twoalmost opposite intentions?

SPEAKER_03 (24:05):
It comes in different forms, fortunately
now, you know, back in the daywhen artists, you know, like
Degas had to, you know, maketheir own.
Yeah, you wound up with littlelumps.
It was the reason they couldn'tdo, it was handled in paint more
than it was handled in as a drymedium.
Fortunately for me, with thetechnology that has improved how
you deliver pastel itself, thereare pencils, there are forms

(24:32):
that are sticks that are verysmall and fine.
And there are ways of...
One of the great things CharlesWhite taught me was that you
don't necessarily need the...
a brush in order to apply, youknow, a color to a, to a canvas
or to a piece of paper.
We used to go out to the park tocross the street to MacArthur

(24:55):
park with no tools, just paper.
And he would say, okay, findsomething to draw with.
So, you know, we're runningaround looking for twigs and,
you know, anything we could findthat could make a line and mud.
And, but, but it was such animportant lesson because you
don't need you know, thosethings necessarily.
If you look at a lot of hiswork, a lot of the line and the

(25:17):
interesting texture he producedhad nothing to do with brushes
and, you know, tools, artisttools that are made for that
purpose.
And it gives you a totallydifferent look.
So you have to be inventive.

SPEAKER_04 (25:30):
Have you ever painted with paint?

SPEAKER_03 (25:32):
Oh, sure.
Sure.
I paint occasionally.
I mean, I know how to slingpaint.
You know, I went to art school.
I just don't like it.

SPEAKER_04 (25:42):
You don't have to.
You're an artist.

SPEAKER_03 (25:44):
I mean, it's the seven story mural that's
downtown now.
It had a certain scale in orderto photograph it.
So I did this huge painting forthat.
And it was fun.
But, you know, I can livewithout it.

SPEAKER_04 (25:58):
Let me ask you about the days, early days of Los
Four, because I was justrecently aware that you were a
fifth member of that group.
How did that come to be?
And how did your associationswith those four guys come to be.
And they let you in their club.
I

SPEAKER_03 (26:12):
know, I know.
It's that, you know, we weretalking earlier about being, you
know, kind of, you know, put ona historical path that you had
no idea was historical untilyou're old and you're fortunate
enough to be old as, you know,as I am.
I went to Otis in 1969.
And by 1970, they threw me out.

UNKNOWN (26:30):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (26:32):
because I wasn't going to class enough.
You know, there was a lot of,you know, things in the
movimiento that were going onand I was involved in that.
And my parents were horrifiedthat I got kicked out of school.
So it put me back a year.
I went back, you know, finishedmy BFA.
And then when I started graduateschool, and this is pure, you
know, I guess, you know, theplanets aligned.

(26:54):
One of my classmates who had notcome, who had not been an
undergraduate, happened to beCarlos Almaraz.
He started graduate school thesame year I did.
And Otis was so tiny in thosedays.
There were only five Chicanos.
Well, not even Chicanos, fiveLatinos.
And only two of us had apolitical conscience.

(27:16):
The other guys were, I don'tknow, from Latin America or
something.
So we became fast friends.
And he's the one who would dragme to, you know, Marxist
meetings, you know, Marxistmeetings.
dialogues with other people andto, you know, all these kinds of
crazy events.
And I'm sorry, what was thequestion?

SPEAKER_04 (27:37):
How did you get involved with LOS4 and how did
they invite you into the group?
Or did you force away?

SPEAKER_03 (27:44):
You know, we knew each other for about a year or
so.
By 1974, we're getting tograduate.
And that same year, he said, youknow, in order to really make
LOS4 possible, or have less for,reflect the consciousness of,
you know, this Marxist idealthat he saw artists having in a

(28:04):
society.
They needed a woman.
Or he thought, the other ones,the other fellows did not think
so.
But he thought so because Oscarhad a woman.
And so, yeah, I thought, OK, youknow, I'll buy this only because
I like you guys.
I like your work and I like toshow it.

SPEAKER_04 (28:23):
What did you do as a member of Los Five now?

SPEAKER_03 (28:26):
Well, you know, we never changed the name.
People always say, well, whywere there five of you when
there were?
Why was it Los Four when therewere five of you?
Because they had already hadthat show at Irvine, which which
resulted in the show at LACMA.
So and because we were a Marxistgroup, they felt that the name
already had brand value and itwas symbolic.

(28:48):
There could be 40 artists thatwere members of Los Four.
And it never got to be more thanfive.
But, you know, that's why theynever changed the name.
And in fact, after, you know,after a few years, Gilbert moved
to Fresno because he got ateaching job in Fresno.
And Beto stopped working.
And so Los Four really becameLos Three.
And then, you know, by 1989,Carlos was gone.

(29:10):
And that was the end of it.
plus four.

SPEAKER_04 (29:13):
The ironic thing, I think, is that Beto's going to
be the one that outlives them

SPEAKER_03 (29:18):
all.
I think you're absolutely right.

SPEAKER_04 (29:21):
I just don't know how is that physically possible,
but...

SPEAKER_03 (29:26):
He's been through a lot, and he's, yeah,

SPEAKER_04 (29:28):
he's...
Yeah, I just met him not toolong ago, you know.

SPEAKER_03 (29:31):
Really?

SPEAKER_04 (29:32):
Because he had been isolated for so long that nobody
had seen him for a long time.
But so, what activities did youguys embark upon as now
Firehouse 5 plus 1?
Oh,

SPEAKER_03 (29:42):
you know, We had, gosh, we had so many exhibitions
following the show at LACMA.
We immediately were booked intoa show at the Oakland Museum.
We had one in the Long BeachMuseum.
We were doing murals.
We were doing...
We were working with TeatroCampesino.
Carlos and I would travel upnorth at least once a month to

(30:04):
go work with Cesar Chavez and domurals and banners and whatnot
up there.
It was the ride of my life, Ihave to tell you.
Because half the time on theroads, we'd leave LA at night
and we'd stop at Buttonwillow.
You know that bus stop or truckstop just before you go either

(30:25):
up 99 or 101?
Yeah.
And we'd have breakfast and thenwe'd sing all these kind of
Broadway songs, everything wecould think of to keep ourselves
awake before we got to NorthernCalifornia.
We also tried to organizeartists.
Carlos had made a connectionwith Rene Yanez, the wonderful

(30:47):
late Rene Yanez in San Franciscoand the RCAF and organized
artists across the state, whichnever really happened, but we
had some great parties.
And everybody got to know eachother and the people in San
Diego, we'd go see them.
It was just 10 years rolled byso quickly.
It was just so much fun.
We did a lot of art, had a lotof experiences together.

SPEAKER_04 (31:08):
They do roll by quickly.
So why do you think, being awoman, why women are not courted
actively to do shows or excludedfrom doing shows?
I was married to a painterbefore, and that was her main
complaint all the time, that shewas not given the same
opportunities.
Why do you think that was aninstitutional attitude at the

(31:29):
time?
Or what was the cause of that,do you think?

SPEAKER_03 (31:33):
It's been an institutional attitude since,
you know, since Adam and Eve.
Because, well, especially inthis country, let's just talk
about this country.
Have you read the Arlene Davilabook, Latin X Art?
Actually, she's ananthropologist at NYU.
who has a great interest in art.
And she did an incredible job ofinvestigating why it is that

(31:58):
Latinx, and when we're talkingabout Latinx, we're talking
about Latinos born in the UnitedStates.
America born Latino art neverwinds up in museums, okay?
Generally speaking, that hasbeen the case.
And she confirmed something Ihave thought for decades.
And that is that in the UnitedStates, in the mainstream
institutions of America.

(32:20):
And it's not even so much them.
It's the guys who control thevalue of art, the Sotheby's, the
big auction houses and the majormuseums who are the tastemakers
for the rest of the country.
And they decided that the workof people of color of the
Americas didn't rise to thelevel of fine art.

(32:43):
They also didn't want to haveanything elipse the importance
of the Western canon, which isthe standard for art across the
United States, as if that werethe only art ever produced on
the planet.
It is ruled by Western art andthe accomplishments of Europe.
So we didn't fit that paradigm.
There's a great movie that'scalled The Price of Everything

(33:04):
You Ought to See.
It's a documentary about anartist who's actually white.
He stayed out of the New Yorkscene for decades before he came
back.
because his work, it wasn't, youknow, it didn't fit, you know,
some sort of standard either.
But anyway, with regard to us,that's why when you look at
museums that have a LatinAmerican collection, they are

(33:26):
mostly the artists of LatinAmerica.
I'm talking about South America.
Those artists are generallyspeaking, European descendants
of white Europeans who do artthat is not what, what, what
they call here disparagingly,identity art.
That's one of the things thatwas, the critic from the, art

(33:51):
critic from the Washington Postsaid in an interview following,
in his review following theopening of that big show at the
Smithsonian, the Latino artexhibition, no, no, American
art, the Latino presence inAmerican art, I forget the
title.

(34:12):
He called it, you know, what is,he called the term Latino art
meaningless.
And boy, did that blow up allover Facebook and the
Twittersphere because they, onthe one hand, we've been
criticized by doing identity artand having identity shows where
it's labeled, you know, blackart and it's labeled Chicano art

(34:36):
and yet they don't show us.
So, excuse me?
So what do you care?
I mean, why do you care what wecall ourselves?
And then when we do have a showin a major museum, in a
mainstream museum, they don'twant it to be categorized by its
ethnicity.
I said, well, you know, after 50years of being forced to do

(34:57):
that, you know, why are yousurprised?

SPEAKER_04 (35:01):
The reason that I wear a T-shirt that says Chicano
art is American art.
Thank you.
But that is, you know, it isinsisting on being part of the
canon of American art, which weare.
And as far as I'm concerned, andmy studies, and I've studied
this quite extensively, I'm sureeverybody listening to it has.

(35:23):
There's an argument to be madethat because of its longevity,
because of its specificity, andbecause it encompasses many
states from coast to coast for along period of time and is
highly influential, that theChicano School of Art is perhaps
the most important school of artin America ever.
And it is still going.

SPEAKER_03 (35:41):
Yes, I would agree with you.

SPEAKER_04 (35:43):
And so part of the program now going forward is to
demonstrate that.
My mantra had always been thatyou cannot love or hate Chicano
art unless you see

SPEAKER_03 (35:53):
it.
That's an argument that is soeasy to cure, isn't it?
Well, why don't you just show itand see how your audience
reacts?

SPEAKER_04 (35:59):
When Chicano Business came through, it was
the most well-attended show inover 25 years at the
Smithsonian.
And they get everything.
That's

SPEAKER_03 (36:08):
right.
Patsy and I broke records.
We had 85,000 people comethrough our show.

SPEAKER_04 (36:12):
It was a good show.
There's no way you're not goingto go see that if you get a
chance.

SPEAKER_03 (36:16):
After years, after decades of, you know, I mean,
every time I went to New York,you know, from the early 80s,
you know, until just a few yearsago, it was this nonstop diet of
non-objective, you know,conceptual art.
You know, if I saw another whiteroom With a white pile of sand,
I was going to throw up.
I mean, it was just the mostboring stuff.

(36:36):
It's an intellectualnavel-gazing for the most part.
I'm sorry, guys, but a lot ofconceptual, a lot of objective
art, it's so elitist.
It doesn't invite your normalhuman being to come in and find
something they can emotionallyas well as intellectually be
challenged by.
It's also about class because itdoesn't exclude people because

(36:59):
it is...
by and large, narrative andcontent driven, you know,
whether it's Frank's work, mywork, you know, whoever, Abel
Alejandro, I mean, I can thinkof all these contemporary
artists who work now.
It's not something that is, youknow, that you need to pretend
that you understand, you know,anyone can look at these things

(37:20):
and derive some meaning, youknow, if they want to spend the
time.
And I You know, God bless DavidHockney.
He said this decade, you know,at least 20 years ago on some
interview with 60 Minutes, howtired he was of seeing, you
know, art that, you know, hewanted to see real art.
He was tired of all thisconceptual stuff.

(37:42):
He wanted to see people.
He wanted to see, you know, thekind of work he does where you
have these mysteries thatinclude, you know, the human
form that have a story thathave, you know, something that
requires your, you know, yourintellectual and emotional
presence, you know, to becomeinvolved with it.
And I, yeah, I totally believein that.

(38:04):
And I totally believe in that weare an American form of art that
has not been celebrated enough.
There's so many talented youngpeople coming along.
I

SPEAKER_04 (38:12):
think it's bad in painting, try it in movies, but
it's changing now by force ofwill.
It is a matter of persistenceand it's a matter of being able
to have the work once you'reable to show it.
And that's, you know, I restfully confident in both of those
things.
Your work is wonderful.
And we're just starting now tocollect a few pieces so they

(38:35):
will be installed in the Canadaof Chicano art, you know, but
I'm not a, I'm not a zillionairethat, you know, I sent over two
tons of that art, you know, Ihave to be working.
I'm a working actor.
So when I do work, I collect,but, but I know what I'm looking
for, you know, very, you Earlyin this process, I knew what I
was looking for, and it wasChicano art because I could

(38:57):
identify it real easily, notonly because of where I was
from, but it looked like it wastalking about something.
So much art talks about nothing.
We're just in our first museum.
We'll have many more as we goforward.
Maybe one exclusively devoted toChicana women.
That's redundant.

(39:19):
I don't really kind of...
between men and women.
I just look at the art, youknow, and that tells me if I
should like it or not.
Chicanos are open to, at leastat this point, I mean, there was
a lot of male dominance in theearly Chicano days.

(39:40):
I know a lot of the women...

SPEAKER_03 (39:42):
How about a lot?

SPEAKER_04 (39:45):
Okay, I get your point.
Get me a beer.

SPEAKER_03 (39:48):
Bless their souls.
That was one of the things, youknow, black women and Latinas,
the fact that, you know, we werebucking the American white
establishment, but we also hadto deal with machismo.
You know, it was a double whammyon our part.
So, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (40:08):
That's why you guys are stronger.
You got to put more on your backhere.

SPEAKER_03 (40:11):
We live longer.
It's the only break they'vegiven us.

SPEAKER_04 (40:14):
That's true.
Your show at

SPEAKER_03 (40:19):
Oh, at MoMA, the Museum of Modern Art in New
York.
It's a group show.
It's called War Within, WarWithout.
It's up until the fall.

SPEAKER_04 (40:27):
Are there certain museums you go to every time
you're in that city?

SPEAKER_03 (40:30):
You know, me and museums have a funny
relationship because, you know,I have, you know, some, you
know, I had some problems with,you know, them not, you know,
showing the work of people ofcolor.
But now I go with a more openmind, not just because, you
know, I've happened, you know,to...
to be lucky enough to have somework acquired by, you know, some

(40:51):
very fine institutions, but Isee a change and I want to chart
that change.
And I think that, you know, whenone of the things that I think
that I, you know, I hope I have,I have done because I don't like
to talk about myself really, butbecause of the position I'm in a
few years ago during the, theCharles White, the run-up to the

(41:14):
Charles White exhibition thattoured, It was in MoMA.
It was at the Art Institute inChicago, and then it came to
LACMA.
I was contacted by a youngcurator at MoMA who knew I was a
student, wanted to come and dosome interviews.
We got to know each other prettywell, talked about a lot of
things.
And one day, she was in mystudio having lunch with another

(41:36):
curator of a very prestigiousmuseum.
I couldn't believe they wereboth sitting here.
And at my age...
And what have I got to lose byasking the tough questions?
What are they going to do, notshow me?

SPEAKER_04 (41:48):
They've already proven they can do that.

SPEAKER_03 (41:52):
Really?
So I said to them, why is itthat...
I said, you're both young.
You come to Los Angeles.
You see the amazing vibration inthe city, you know, just...
compounding with art, you know,of people of color, the amazing
images, the color, the energy.
Why don't you ever show this inyour museums?
And they both, you know, lookedat their, you know, at their

(42:14):
tables, you know, at the platesembarrassed.
They said, you know what?
It's not us.
We go back and when we go toacquisition meetings, you know,
in our department and we talkabout what we see, we really
should send more people out.
We have to come out and look atmake studio visits, you know,
find some work, you know, toacquire.
This was prior to beingembarrassed about not being

(42:36):
diverse.
And I said, and so what happens?
Well, it goes to the next level.
You know, those recommendations.
People who give megabus, thekind of folks who have a gallery
named after them, they arepaying for the brand value of
the art.
We get over that, then thingswill change.

SPEAKER_04 (42:55):
The world of museums, the gears grind
exceedingly slow in that world.
And so, I mean, you can be in ahurry, but it really goes to
against the grain.
But eventually, if you'resteadfast to your beliefs, it
will happen.
But I have fun in the lead up todealing with these directors.

(43:16):
So you claim to be the Museum ofAmerican Art.
Well, as far as I can see,you're the Museum of some
American art.
And they get it.
They don't want to get it, butthey get it.
But that's where we are rightnow.
The push is gradually coming.

SPEAKER_03 (43:30):
A hundred years from now, hopefully it will be
different.

SPEAKER_04 (43:33):
Well, we'll still be young by then.
you know.
I think Charlene has a question.

SPEAKER_02 (43:39):
You know, I'm just thinking about the structural
barriers to exhibiting Chicanawomen artists or people of color
artists.
And the fact that there are sofew museum directors of color,
so few curators, it's startingto change.
More graduate students arecoming through the pipeline.
But it's a very serious, Ithink, impediment.

(43:59):
And I actually believe you haveto try really hard to not see
Chicana women artists.
Even back in the movement days,there, you know, You were there,
Judy Baca.
There were so many importantwomen at that time.
I'm happy to see barriers arestarting to come down.

SPEAKER_03 (44:14):
There you go.
From your mouth to God's ear.

SPEAKER_04 (44:19):
It is a constant and forward push.
And, you know, that's what itis.
And you just accept it for thatand kind of smile in the face of
it and keep on pushing.
And it'll happen.
It is happening right now as wespeak.
So don't get dissuaded ordiscouraged because it is

(44:41):
happening as we speak.

SPEAKER_03 (44:43):
Well, you know, the whole political social pendulum
is now finally swinging back.
after 500 years, people who wereconquered are going to be the
people in charge, which is partof the problem.
The brown will inherit theearth.

(45:04):
It's a very hard thing, I think,for many European descendants in
this country to deal with theidea about not being in charge
anymore.
And I think when that is finallyaccepted by maybe their children
or grandchildren orgreat-grandchildren at some
point are the minority in thiscountry, then things will be a

(45:26):
little more comfortable for allof us when people accept what
everyone is and include themall.

SPEAKER_04 (45:32):
We need cooperation between everybody if we're going
to go forward as a human race.
Because we're going to face alot of opposition by nature as
we go.
But we will need each other andwe need each other to get along.
And we enjoy each other's spiritand things that are positive in
each other's lives and that wecan contribute to each other.

(45:55):
Hopefully that will be the waythe Cheech Museum in Riverside
will be seen.
But you've contributed greatlyto this.
by the continuing creation ofyour work.
I mean, you look behind you andit's still going.
I'm

SPEAKER_03 (46:09):
an addict.
People are addicted to manythings.
Art has never paid for me.
Most of my life, I have paid forthe privilege of making art.
It's only the last couple ofyears that my luck has changed a
little bit and now people arebuying the work, but That's not

(46:30):
the way I work.
I work probably for the samereason that people go into other
creative disciplines like music.
I know your wife is a pianistand she plays beautifully.

SPEAKER_04 (46:40):
Try to make a living doing that.

SPEAKER_03 (46:44):
But you do it not because it's going to pay your
rent or put food on your table.
but because you can't stopyourself from doing it.
It's the only thing that reallygives you satisfaction.
Yeah,

SPEAKER_04 (46:54):
you're doing great.

SPEAKER_06 (46:55):
Anybody else got another question?
One thing has become apparentafter all these years, Judith,
is that you're a pioneer and youcontinue to break through new
arenas, new collections, newmuseums.
And You know, I think that'ssomething that, you know, going

(47:15):
back a little bit, you know, wewere talking about Los Four and
why that was so significant.
Los Four was an all-malecollective, well, in addition to
Judith, but it was originally anall-male an all-male collective
that broke into the mainstreamwith a major show at the Los
Angeles County Museum of Art.
Just for those listeners thatare outside of LA, on the East

(47:36):
Coast, or in between, that was amajor moment for Chicano art,
breaking into a mainstream stagefor art.
There were some secretbreak-ins, absolutely.
Yes, and there will be futurebreak-ins, I'm sure.
So, and so Judith, you know,you're, you're part of that,

(47:56):
that legacy.
And that's, I think that's atleast one like formal moment in
the art world where you are,you're a pioneer, but there's
also, you know, and by the way,I should name the artists who
comprise those four.
We've been talking about them.
Frank Romero, Carlos Almaraz,Beto de la Rocha, and Magu

(48:20):
Lujan.
Thank you, Gilbert Magu Lujan.
Absolutely.
And Judith Hernandez, of course,adding to that group.
But so Judith, maybe I don'tknow if it's too early to ask
this question.
But looking ahead, Judith, youhave a lot of exciting things
coming up.
I mean, we just covered the MoMAgroup show that you're in, which

(48:40):
is incredible.
But you have some other thingsgoing on.
There's other things going on inNew York as well, right?

SPEAKER_03 (48:47):
Yeah, I have.
Actually, for the first time inmy life, I have a gallery
representation anywhere.

SPEAKER_04 (48:52):
Who's that

SPEAKER_03 (48:52):
beginning you?
She's an amazing young woman.
Her name is Monica King.
And her gallery has now become adifferent animal because of
COVID.
It's called Monica KingProjects.
And we're going to be planningsomething like a very adult form
of the pop-up, you know, May inNew York, Los Angeles,
hopefully.

(49:13):
We're still planning that.
Hopefully, maybe next year,we'll do that.
But in the meantime, what Ireally concern myself with is
where I'm going next in the workthat I do.
I finally decided to, becauseit's always been like the
800-pound gorilla in myhistorical plans for the content

(49:39):
of my work, and that's been thewhole idea of colonization and
the impact of colonization.
It's something that younghistorians have actually pushed
me in that direction.
My daughter, Charlene, thethings that I've been reading,
it is such an important topic.
And I think I never reallywanted to kind of go there

(50:01):
because it is so paradoxical.
It is so savage.
A 10th of the world's populationdisappeared after the conquest
of the Western Hemisphere.
I mean, it was that big.
It's the biggest slaughter ofhuman beings that has ever
happened in human history.
And that needs attention.

(50:21):
I feel it needs attention.
So the fact that the piecebehind me is the first piece in
the colonization series, Iimagine I'll be doing that for
the rest of my life.
It's such a big subject.
But I still add to other series,ongoing series like Juarez.
I also have a new piece that I'mstill working on for Juarez.

(50:41):
So I There's no end for me.
There's no end of subjectmatter.
This

SPEAKER_04 (50:47):
is good to hear.
I mean, it looks like you'restill doing incredible work.
Do you have any other questions,Melissa?

SPEAKER_00 (50:54):
Speaking of the Juarez series, I'd like to hand
this over to Todd and then Iwould end up for questioning
about what he's going to share.

SPEAKER_05 (51:02):
Thank you, Melissa.
So Cheech, from the verybeginning when we were first
talking about the creation ofthe Cheech with Cheech and sort
of what does this look like andwhat does this center do and
what are the values that areimportant to Cheech?
And, you know, Cheech has beensuch a champion of Chicano art
and so generous with thecollection, ensuring that the

(51:26):
work is seen by as many peopleas possible.
You know, that's how the Cheechcame to be was that the
Cheech...
Papel Chicano Dos came to RAMand blew us all out of the water
in terms of just the communityreaction that people were lined
up around the block.
And so that's how the Cheech gotstarted.

(51:46):
But we've always talked aboutcontinuing to add to the
collection, to expand it, andthen to continue to tour it.
And so...
as a surprise announcement, orwe haven't actually announced
this publicly yet, but we arevery pleased that the very first
acquisition for the Cheech Marincollection that we've added to

(52:07):
is a piece by Judith JuarezQuinceanera.
And we are very excited thatwe'll be adding this to the
collection.
And I'm also happy to reportthat we are two thirds of the
way through the fundraising toacquire our second piece.
And so we are very excited aboutcontinuing to bring Judith into

(52:28):
the collection and to ensurethat her work is part of that
canon that she just created.
And so thank you for sharingyour work with us.
We're very excited to have it bepart of the collection.

SPEAKER_03 (52:43):
Thank you, everyone.
I'm always amazed, you know,that when my work has found a
home where it can be seenpublicly It's certainly nice to
have collectors feel that theywant to live with some of your
work.
But art should be public, and Iam so pleased that it has public

(53:04):
venues, especially like Cheech,the Cheech, which is going to be
a magnet for school kids, forscholars, for just the
community.
And the community in SouthernCalifornia is immense for the
kind of work that we'll beseeing there.
You know, big applause forCheech Madin.

SPEAKER_04 (53:25):
We are honored to have you in the collection,
Judith.

SPEAKER_00 (53:28):
Your work is amazing and beautiful.
Any other questions or commentsfrom our panelists?
Charlene?
So

SPEAKER_02 (53:35):
I want to ask a question.
Why the Juarez Quinceañera?
I remember seeing it in theMiller Sheets Gallery.
It was so powerful.
It was in the middle of that onereally long room.
And, you know, I'm thinkingabout the seriousness of the
subject matter.
And I'm just, I want to hearwhat drew you to that piece.

SPEAKER_04 (53:52):
You know, what draws me to, and Todd, we both are at
the same time together, whatdraws to any piece of the
totality of the painting is ofthe drawing or the pastel or
whatever you want to call itwhen you're standing in front of
it.
You know, and the more you knowabout art, the more you know
about the construction and theinspiration of art, the greater
it informs your initialreaction.

(54:15):
You know, when you stand infront of a painting and go, wow,
that wow is informed by a lot ofyears, like you say, of knowing
a lot of stuff and putting themtogether.
And that informs basically yournatural reaction.

SPEAKER_05 (54:31):
My recollection of that exhibition was we spent a
lot of time in the exhibitionwandering around separately and
together, but we all kept comingback to that piece, either by
ourselves or together.
It was just that powerful anddrew us both in.
And so when we started talkingabout who do we add first, what

(54:54):
are we going to startcollecting?
And Judith was right at the topof the list.
When we started looking at theavailable work, we both
instantly said, oh, that's theone.

SPEAKER_00 (55:05):
When Cheech talks about collecting, he always says
this, it has to haunt him.
And if it haunts him when he'sactually still there, you...
And it did.
It's haunted him for a while.

SPEAKER_04 (55:18):
Paintings do haunt me, and I think they should
haunt everybody that sees them.
As you

SPEAKER_06 (55:22):
described it before, I think one of the more powerful
analogies that has stuck with mefor years now is when you make a
connection between Chicano artand jazz, and their true
American, original American artforms or genres of art, That has
stuck.
And there's something, there's alot to be said there.

(55:44):
I think, you know, it's beyondlike the handling of paint.
I think it's that chile hetalked about.
It's something about...
There is much more than justnuances and technique.
It is the hope, isn't

SPEAKER_00 (55:55):
it?
Do we

SPEAKER_04 (55:56):
have any other questions from

SPEAKER_00 (55:57):
the peanut gallery?
We do.
How did you decide to start yourseries on the murder of young
women factory workers in Mexico,the Juarez series?

SPEAKER_03 (56:04):
I was living in Chicago, and I was, like most
Americans, it's been going onsince the adoption of NAFTA.
of the International TradeAgreement between, you know, at
the border of Mexico and theUnited States in 1994.
And it was shortly after that,that these young women who were

(56:25):
like sitting ducks going backand forth from there, you know,
where they live to, you know, totheir, or leaving rather from
the factories were abducted andmurdered, but it never hit the
American newspapers.
And I think it was on theinternet.
I ran into an article about itin 2007.

(56:46):
That was the earliest piece thatI did.
And the series has continuedsince then because in 25 years,
in nearly 30 years now, themurders have not ceased.
Most international human rightsorganizations say it could be as
many as 2,000 women, rangingfrom ages of seven to women in

(57:09):
their 40s.
It's a huge international crimethat's being committed and the
Mexican government seems to nothave the ability to deal with it
and to prosecute, to stop and toprosecute the crime.
the perpetrators.
So as long as that

SPEAKER_00 (57:27):
goes on, so will the series.
We have another question fromAlan Blevins.
He's congratulating you, ofcourse, on being, as we all
congratulate you, with theMoMA's permanent collection.
He has two questions, two parts.
First, what was it like to findout that your work was going
into MoMA's collection?
And that's the first one.
And then the second one, I'llask after you finish that.

SPEAKER_03 (57:47):
What was it like?
It was like winning the lottery.
I couldn't believe it.
I mean, I just, you know, when amuseum of that, you know, of
that quality, you know, wants tohave your work there, it is,
it's a validating kind offeeling.
I'm, like any other artist, I'mstill subject, you know, to

(58:09):
those kinds of desires to havemy work validated by
institutions and human beings Irespect.
And so, yeah.
It is real.
It's not only, you know, awonderful feeling, but it's a
great honor to have a piece of

SPEAKER_00 (58:24):
my work there.
The second question is he wantsto know, can you talk about your
university thesis, particularlyyour use of spray paint graffiti
at a time when that wasrevolutionary and then how your
early murals influenced yourbody of work?

SPEAKER_03 (58:38):
You know, I've always drawn from my, you know,
ethnic background, you know, thephysical, you know, places that
I lived in.
One of the things I've beenwriting about lately when I'm
conceptualizing the idea ofworking on the colonization
series is the fact that peopleof color in this country live in

(59:00):
an alternative version ofAmerica.
And it is one that mainstreamAmericans for the most part, not
everyone, but white Americanssimply don't understand what
it's like to be to live in ablack neighborhood, to live in a
Chicano neighborhood, to live ina Chinese neighborhood, you're

(59:22):
required to know everythingabout them in order to function
in America, but they're requiredto know very little about you.
And so I think that that's, youknow, I want to tackle some of
that in the work that I producebecause it's a way of leveling
not the playing field, that'ssuch an overused term, but a

(59:44):
level of knowledge that standsbetween us, I think that
separates us from one another.
And I think it's important forjust human beings, or I rather,
it's my feeling that a lot ofwhat separates us can be
overcome when there's knowledge.
And so the more we know abouteach other, You know, my

(01:00:09):
instinct says that some of theseother things will fall away.
And so at least that's my hope.

SPEAKER_00 (01:00:14):
This is a question for Cheech, for Judith and
others to weigh in.
Given the rise in interest incollecting Chicano art, what do
you recommend for beginningcollectors?

SPEAKER_03 (01:00:22):
Whatever they love.
Don't buy it as an investment.
That's the worst thing in theworld that a collector can do.
Buy what you love.
You know what's another goodreason?
Because I know it's what you doto support young artists.
where you see potential and youwant to support that potential.
That's a wonderful reason tobuy.

SPEAKER_04 (01:00:40):
If you're going to buy art for your home, look
around and look what your homelooks like.
Where were you going to put thispiece that will make harmony in
your house?
And read as many books and go tothe many museums that you can
before you buy anything.
So you'll be informed about whatis good and what is at least
appealing to you.
But that's where you build yourknowledge.

SPEAKER_00 (01:01:02):
And I think as a collector, a young collector,
not even a young, established oremerging collector, whatever I
am, I think it's something Ilearned from Cheech is you like
what you like.
One day I woke up and I lookedat my walls and what I had on my
walls were paintings of womenthat were strong and emerging.
And people who know me think,oh, you wanted someone like
yourself.
I was like, no, I don't feellike a strong woman.

(01:01:23):
These give me life.
They give me confidence.
And so I surrounded myself withthings that I like.
And I know Cheech, that's reallya motivator for you.
You like what you like and youfeel it.
And I think being that kind ofemotional or in tune with your
emotions when you're collectingis important And I also like
what you said, Judith, aboutcollecting young artists and

(01:01:45):
supporting them as they go aswell.
And that's something I know I dopersonally.
I know Cheech obviously has overthe life of his career of
collecting.
There is one more question.
It is to Judith asking, is yourwork inspired by a particular
historic period or is itsymbolic to more contemporary
social justice issues?

SPEAKER_03 (01:02:05):
No, my work is about the things that have happened in
my lifetime.
You know, the past has alreadybeen litigated, I think, by many
people.
So what's the point?
I mean, there are so many thingsthat, you know, we need to talk
about now that stand between usas people.
I don't deal in the past.

(01:02:26):
I deal in the present, which is,I think, I don't know, one of
the reasons maybe I still thinkof myself as a teenager.
You know, I'm like that kid wholike, you know, like crashed the
adult party.
I never quite feel like I belongthere when I'm with a bunch of
adults.
But I think it's a good thing.
I think it's a good thing.

SPEAKER_04 (01:02:43):
To maintain that childlike innocence or that, you
know, wide eyed innocence issomething you don't ever want to
lose, especially as an artist.
You know, you want to beflabbergasted by what you see.
Wow.

SPEAKER_03 (01:02:55):
Absolutely.
God, when you lose that kind ofinterest in life, I think that,
you know, life is over.

SPEAKER_04 (01:03:00):
Because we're going to need each other going
forward.
I don't care where you come fromor what color you are or what
your economic, social situationis.
We are all going to need eachother going forward from this
time forward.
We're going to face a lot ofthings that we need each other
for.
all over the world.

SPEAKER_03 (01:03:18):
I look forward to going to your opening.

SPEAKER_04 (01:03:20):
It's going to be a spectacular thing.
We invite you to come as manytimes as you want to this
museum.
It is a spectacular space.
I mean, really spectacular thatyou're going to, every kid that
comes in is going to have abirth of appreciation of art,
just like I had when I went tomuseums when I was young.

(01:03:41):
So we're overjoyed to have yourwork at our museum.
Hopefully we'll collect a lotmore in the times Thanks very
much for being on the programtoday.
We really appreciate your work.
We want to put it in specialplaces to be honored in the new
museum so that everybody elsewill fall in love with the same
thing that we did.

SPEAKER_00 (01:04:02):
Judith, thank you for joining us.
Many thanks to our panelists,Eddie, Charlene, Todd, of
course, Cheech.
So check out Judith's workonline at judithhernandez.com.
For show notes, links, andartwork images mentioned in this
program, visit causeconnect.net.
We'll post them later thissummer when the museum launches
its new website atriversideartmuseum.org.

(01:04:23):
To learn more about the Cheech,please visit
thecheechcenter.org.
This series is presented byRiverside Art Museum.
It's made possible through thegenerous support of the Union
Pacific Foundation.
Thanks for tuning in.
Bye.
Okay, ciao.

SPEAKER_04 (01:04:37):
Well, thank you very much for joining us.

SPEAKER_00 (01:04:39):
You're just so fabulous, Judith.
I really love you.

SPEAKER_03 (01:04:43):
I work.
I'm a worker.
That's what I do.

SPEAKER_00 (01:04:45):
Bye, everyone.

SPEAKER_04 (01:04:47):
Thanks, guys.
See you in the museum.

UNKNOWN (00:00):
...

(00:00):
...

SPEAKER_01 (01:05:02):
Bye.
Bye.
Bye.