June 3, 2025 • 35 mins
A&R Executive Dave Wallace Reveals Strategies for Global Music Success
In this captivating episode of the MUBUTV Music Business Insider Podcast, discover what it really takes to go from local success to global recognition. Dave Wallace—A&R, manager, label exec, and music industry mentor—pulls back the curtain on artist growth, navigating the US market, and building powerful international networks. Learn what attracts labels and music managers today, the importance of storytelling, and why persistence is key in the modern music game! 🌟📈 #GlobalMusic #MusicNetworking #ArtistSuccess
Our mission here at MUBUTV is to help independent artists and music business professionals of the future to educate, empower and engage their music career.
🎙️ Music Business Insider Podcast: https://www.mubutv.com/podcast The Music Business Insider Podcast is a deep dive for listeners like you who want to educate, empower & engage their music career. We take you inside behind the scenes through a series of in-depth conversations with today’s leading experts in the Music Industry including A&R, Music Supervision, Artist Management, Marketing, Publicity, Touring, and much much more. You can find it by searching “Music Business Insider Podcast” on any podcast app or platform [ie: Apple Podcasts, Spotify, etc.].
📒 Show Notes and Resources 📒
https://www.mubutv.com/dave-wallace-a-r-executive
⚡️What you'll learn in this episode⚡️
👉 The secret to building an international story for your artist career
👉 What talent managers look for in today’s saturated market
👉 The critical role of artist narratives
👉 and so much more...
Here are the ways to work with us here at MUBUTV:
⚡️Insiders! Secure Your Spot! Get expert music career coaching with Ritch & Eric. Book your 15-min discovery call now: Grab a spot! 👉 https://book.mubutv.com
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Podcast Credits
Produced by: Ritch Esra & Eric Knight
Editor: Eric Knight
Shownotes & Transcriptions: Rick Staffy
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
On today's podcast, we sit down with Dave Wallace, the music
(00:03):
executive behind breaking UK bands like Two Door Cinema Club,
Blossoms, and Bombay Bicycle Club into The US market. Dave
shares his incredible journey from UK Booking Agent to global music
strategist, revealing the biggest challenges of translating domestic success
into international recognition. We dive deep into the art of building a
global story around an artist, the evolving threshold for attracting labels
(00:25):
and management, and what it really takes to commit to a career as an artist
or songwriter today. You'll hear inside stories about developing
breakout acts, the truth about emerging markets, and the hard fought
lessons that can only come from years in the trenches. If you're ready to learn
from one of the industry's top insiders, stay tuned because this
episode is packed with wisdom you won't wanna miss. Insiders,
(00:47):
are you ready? Welcome to MUBUTV's
Music Business Insider Podcast where our mission is to educate,
empower, and engage artists and music business professionals who are
dedicated to having a successful career in the new music industry.
Here are your hosts, Ritch Esra and Eric Knight. Welcome
back, Insiders, to another episode of the MUBUTV Music Business
(01:11):
Insider podcast, where our mission is to educate, empower, and
engage your music career. On today's show, we're excited to welcome Dave Wallace,
a visionary manager and executive who's played a key role in breaking
iconic UK bands like Tudor Cinema Club, Blossoms, and
Bombay Bicycle Club into The US market. In this raw and
insightful interview, Dave takes us deep inside the challenges of translating
(01:33):
domestic success into global recognition and reveals the evolution
of his strategies working across continents and industry giants like
Virgin Music and Roc Nation. We'll explore how creating momentum in
your home territory can spark international buzz, the art of
storytelling to media and gatekeepers, and why artistic quality still
matters even in the age of numbers and algorithms. Dave also
(01:55):
offers practical advice for up and coming songwriters, producers, and
artists on what it truly takes to build a sustainable career in today's
music business. Plus, he recommends his favorite books and documentaries for
anyone looking for inspiration on this journey. You don't wanna miss this
master class in international artist development, industry insight, and
the mindset it takes to make it in the modern music world. Stay tuned.
(02:17):
But first, a word from our sponsor. Hey, Insiders. Are you an
aspiring musician, artist, band, or future music business
professional looking to take your career to the next level? Well, look no
further. At MUBUTV, we offer personalized career counseling and
coaching designed specifically for folks like you. Imagine having
both of us by your side, guiding you through every step of your music journey.
(02:39):
Our sessions are tailored to meet your unique needs, focusing on critical
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your artist story, identifying your target audience, and enhancing your
social media presence, just to name a few. Whether you're just starting out
or looking to elevate your existing career, we've got you covered. Our
comprehensive approach ensures you get insights on everything
(03:01):
from live shows to branding and marketing strategies. We
understand that every artist is unique. That's why our coaching
is personalized just for you. And here's the best part. We offer
flexible coaching packages that fit any budget. Choose from individual
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(03:23):
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after just one session, the feedback on your songs, the strategies
to grow your audience, and the confidence to perform live, all
tailored just for you. So why wait? Don't let uncertainty
(03:45):
hold you back. Join us for your free fifteen minute discovery call at
book.mubutv.com for a transformative coaching
experience that will elevate your music career. That's
book.mubutv.com. Hi.
This is Travis Jerome. I'm a music supervisor at Ignition Creative, and you're listening to
the MUBUTV Music Business Insider podcast. Welcome back, Insiders.
(04:07):
Today's featured guest is none other than the general manager of
Mushroom Records in The US, Dave Wallace. This was a
really, really interesting conversation. I didn't know Dave before
this. Right. Neither did I. Yeah. Yeah. And and got to know who he
was. Very, very interesting guy. What I loved about Dave was
that he comes from the management side. This is a very this is a very
(04:29):
interesting point because he's not somebody that's, you know, strictly
from the recorded music side and doesn't know what it takes in
terms of managing artists. Right. It's somebody who comes from
the management side. And what makes that so important, I think, and distinct
is the fact that when you come from the management side, you see the perspective
of what it takes to manage talent, both from the
(04:52):
artist side and the label side and the agent side and
producer and all of those relationships. And he talked about that
element that I thought was so important of the network Right. That
you need to have and the networking skills that you need to have in terms
of breaking talent. You know? That's a very, very important part that I think
it's it's a subtle point, but it's a very important one. And it's one that
(05:14):
I thought he illustrated really, really well in his
conversation with us about artists because and I think he did that because just
innately, he comes from managing talent, and he understood that principle
very, very well. One of the other things that I thought was really great was
the importance of storytelling and artist success. Translating your
story in a way that US media, radio, and booking agents
(05:36):
can relate to is crucial for breaking artists abroad. One of the things that I
loved was, you know, how much he studied the American market and how he
got to know all the nooks and crannies and all the nuances because it is
a behemoth. This market is huge compared to the rest of the world. So I
thought that that was a great discussion which you guys are gonna be listening to.
Absolutely. Storytelling, you know, you know our philosophy.
(05:58):
The most important component in marketing music today is getting
people's attention, and one of the ways you do that is, as you're saying,
Eric, is creating a compelling narrative. Yeah. This has become
and it's true across all media. I mean, I don't wanna get off on attention
on that, but it's very true what you're saying is creating that narrative,
creating that storytelling element, very, very important in
(06:20):
marketing artists today. And a perfect example, you recently sent me a
story about Ghost having the number one record. I had read the article, and
it was just interesting because they talked a lot about their narrative and how he
built Tobias, which is the guy who's the main you know, it's it's his
creation, Tobias Forge, and how he created this whole, like, universe
and how important that has become as part of their narrative and story
(06:42):
and why they have have the number one record in the country after, I think,
a couple of years for rock albums. And it's just very interesting because there's a
perfect example there how somebody can build a universe and build a whole world
And a narrative. Yeah. And how it makes it so important for keeping
people engaged in this economy that we're in that, like, it's just
you're you're on from one thing to the next thing to the next thing because
(07:04):
you're being bombarded as we've talked about. Yes. But what makes your point so important
is that if you have the narrative, like, you use the illustration of Ghost, which
I believe it's their fourth Six albums. Six albums. Six. Okay. Sixth. Just like
Sabrina Carpenter. It's the sixth. That's what it takes today, ladies and gentlemen.
Yeah. He built that very, very carefully. And when you
don't necessarily have hit records to constantly bombard people with, you
(07:26):
better have a narrative that they remember. And with that, insiders, sit
back, relax, and enjoy our featured conversation from Muse
Expo twenty twenty five with Dave Wallace. Dave,
welcome to the show. Thanks for having me. Thank you so much. You know,
throughout your career, you've played a pivotal role in breaking UK bands
into The US market from Tudor Cinema Club to Blossoms to
(07:48):
Bombay Bicycle Club. What are the biggest challenges
in translating domestic success into international recognition,
and how have your strategies evolved in this particular area over the
years? In at the deep end Yeah. From from the first one.
I mean, I think, I didn't really expect to end up in
this specific role. You know, I started out as an agent
(08:11):
in The UK out of university, and that was actually where I signed
Las Vegas and to do a cinema club. And really that role was was
helping them get into Europe and the rest of the world. And America was a
bit of a mystery to me. And as I built a successful roster at Primary
Talent, I went for lunch with Ian McAndrew, and
he offered me a job at wildlife. And at the time, you know, the
(08:33):
ArtzyMonkey is my favorite band. You know, Ian is one of the
greatest managers of all time, bar none. The opportunity was too good for
me to turn down. So I had this incredibly fortunate period
of time where I get to be in the office every day with really one
of the best, greatest English managers to ever do it and learned so much
from me. And then he put so much time into me, and it was incredible.
(08:54):
And around 2012 I think it was 2011, '20 '12, I'd signed
this band called Morning Parade, and I and they were signed to Parlophone
Records in The UK, and and it was difficult. Radio one wasn't really pushing a
lot of guitar music, and I was spending more and more time in
America trying to understand the marketplace. I was fascinated because
I was by no means an expert in Europe and the rest of the world
(09:16):
at this point in my life, but at the same time, I'd seen Las Vegas
blow up and tour with U2 all over the world and head and book them
to headline festivals. And I'd seen Tudor Cinema Club break out of Europe and
and come back and break in The UK in that order, you know, with Kitsune
Records doing an incredible job over there. And I'd also watched Ian
manage the Monkees. You know, they really were the biggest biggest band in the
(09:37):
world, really, outside of North America where they hadn't actually completely broken yet at
that stage. And, you know, through no real
skill of my own, Capitol Records, who were the partner of
Parlophone, worked morning parade's headlights to
alternative radio in 2011. And Jeff Reagan loved the song,
and he played the shit out of it. He played it a lot, and people
(09:59):
really liked it. And it was getting requested a lot, and people really liked the
song. And around that time, you know, I decided to come to
America and really focus on the band and, you know, left the inn under great
circumstances and set up my own management business in North America.
And that was just me and morning parade touring America, putting this record on
TV and climbing the radio charts and learning as we go. And I was
(10:20):
fascinated by this territory where, you know, I'd grown up in a
world where, like, if you didn't get on Radio one, you weren't going
anywhere. You know, it was like a filtration system
of artists. And Radio one was playing less and less guitar
bands at the time, which has always been my passion really, you know, indie rock
alternative. And I came out here and there was 98 alternative radio stations
(10:41):
and, you know, 50 to 60 triple a stations and 70
plus active rock stations. And I was like, wow. Like, you
know and and these guys that I was learning from, you know, Bill Carroll, bless
him, and Dave Barbas and Howard Petruzzo, like,
these guys that were the, you know, the engine room of
of Capitol Records. I learned so much from them in that period of time, and
(11:03):
it's like their energy was like, yo, if it didn't work in Rhode Island, fuck
it. Let's go to Boston. Like, if it don't work there, then fuck it. Let's
go to Philadelphia. And I was just like, wow. This is so exciting. Like, there
isn't this moment where it's do or die in a playlist meeting. It's just
like, let's work this record, you know. And at that
time, you know, morning parade were doing very, very well in the EMI
(11:24):
system because of this growth in North America. And I met with
a band called You Me At Six who were already, you know,
playing their first arenas and stuff, and they were a very established band and very,
very talented rock band. And I met them and we decided to work together for
management, which for me, I guess I was probably about 27 at the time was
kinda shocked everyone in the business that I'd signed this big band, but they were
(11:45):
really keen to grow in North America. And we made a great record with Nia
Laverne in LA. We had number one at rock record in
America with BMG who were the label partner. And at the time, this is pre
quarter. It's pre quarter Marshall. You know, this is when, really, they were a publisher.
And just by a force of will, me and the band kind of put it
out there, found licensed partners. You know, we worked with Prospect Park and
(12:06):
Jeremy Summers and all these people to put the record at the top of the
chart. We had a number one rock record in Australia. We had a number one
album in The UK. We sold out the O2 Arena. And I started to become
fascinated with the global promotion of music. And, you know, I then managed
back for lashes and and some other artists as
well. So all of this to say that by 2017, I'd sold
(12:27):
my management business to Roc Nation three six zero, and
I took some time out to really kinda decide, like, what do I wanna
do now? I didn't wanna be a manager anymore. I feel like my
I'd always get got into music because I I love passionately promoting
music. It's it's kinda what gets me out of bed in the morning. And being
a manager, I just kinda ended up there. And, you know, when the three six
(12:49):
zero thing didn't work out as planned, I took a break and
Jim Chancellor and I, who Jim Chancellor and Michael Rowe had really formed the
Caroline Group, which is still kind of the backbone of what Virgin Music
is today. And we were all kind of obsessed with breaking music internationally
because it was something that we felt that the majors weren't able to do unless
you were the top 10. You know, like, they're so good at it.
(13:11):
Like, this isn't me saying majors can't break stuff internationally. It's what they do.
But you had to be in the top 10 or so artists. And we
had all these incredible acts like this very famous stories about Jim
flying to LA to meet with them to make sure that Snow Patrol broke. You
know, he was always fighting these battles and and is a real mentor of mine
as is Korda. And I know that we you know, when Korda came into You
(13:32):
Me At Six on the second album, we were really trying to push BMG to
up their game and break them in North America, and we had our own struggles
there. And so, you know, a lot of the people that have mentored me
through the years have been very focused on the international breaking of music. And
I suddenly was lucky enough to play a role for Virgin
Music, Caroline at the time, but Virgin Music where I was
(13:53):
bringing Frank Turner, Self Esteem, you know,
Blossom, Bombay Bicycle Club, Palace who have had a huge successful,
you know, five years with that. It's just sold out the Palladium. They're doing three
to 5,000 a night all around the world, thanks to the work of the entire
Virgin system, not just me. So that's that's like some
historics about how I ended up in this role, which I guess is worth
(14:15):
saying. But, you know, the the strategy of it all really changes
as much as the music industry does from time to time. But I think it
would be wrong of me to act as though, like, this international
growth piece into North America doesn't happen without success in The
UK. Right? Or the home territory. So, like, you know, I'm doing
I'm doing all the mushroom stuff for Korda and for the Godinski family,
(14:38):
and I love it. And they've got some amazing things, but they create
the stories around Alex Leahy or Gordy. They're the ones
that put it on new music Friday ANZ and, you
know, build Tobias out of the home market. And
then you've got Corder in The UK who's putting wins on the board in The
UK and me that's following from that. Because I always say to
(15:00):
people, if you give me five or six very
compelling wins in the home territory,
I can turn that into hopefully 10 to 20 to 30 wins
here because there's so many places to go with it. You have a story.
Yes. Yeah. And you mentioned the translation. Yeah. The translation
piece is maybe, like, the most important thing. It's like, how can
(15:22):
I frame this in a way where this radio station or this
media outlet or this booking agent that we wanna sign it can understand
that this is not just something that's good? It's something that they
understand how to work with themselves. Something that's similar to what they already have on
the playlist, what they already have on the roster, what they already have in the
magazine. You know? Yeah. And I think that, like, that's
(15:44):
kind of been the role, and it's it's really fun, you know, to be like
like, we Mushroom's got this guy, Anthony Smerek. Right? And
Cord has done an amazing job in The UK. He was six music
artist of the year last year. He's selling out shows all across the
country, and a lot of people crassly compare it to the streets.
If you know the streets, Mike Skinner, you know, because it's kind of spoken
(16:06):
word over dance beats, but it's actually more like Alex
Turner doing something over taiko. You know? And when you
say that to Americans, they're like, oh, wow. I fuck with that big
time. Like, Alex Turner doing over taiko. And when they come to
the show, they really get it, you know, and it's little things like that where
you're like, because his poetry is more elevated than Mike's. Well, I'm a huge
(16:27):
streets fan, but he's he's the voice of the working class, whereas
Anthony's is very much in that kind of tranquility
base, Sick Monkeys era, poetry. So I just
think that that's a big part of the game. Like, blossoms, you know, blossoms
were a band that, you know, they've have, I think, five number one albums in
a row in The UK. Wow. You know, Brit Award, Artist of
(16:49):
the Year. You know, they're massive. They're absolutely massive in The UK. They do
outdoor stadiums and festivals, and, you know, no one could really get it going
here in America. And and we had a really good run with them where we
were able to help people see why they were like the Arctic Arctic Monkeys, why
they were on the radio with the 1975 in The UK. And, you know, one
of the things I always say as an example is, like, when you look at
the 1975 or even Catfish and the Bottleman,
(17:11):
right, those artists were day one
narrative and story into media. So, like, as it
started to break in The UK, their teams were out telling the story
in a very compelling way, helping people understand what it was, and they broke the
world as a result. Whereas, like, Blossoms, they broke
in The UK, and people weren't really telling the story in cadence in North
(17:34):
America. You know, I think they'd be fine with me saying that, you know, because
I already tried on my album as well. But it's like, if someone's in there
day and date, like day one, telling the story before the first album,
you have a much bigger chance to break. Hey, Insiders. We hope that you've been
enjoying our featured conversation. Stay tuned because we've got so much
value coming your way. But before we dive back in, a word from our
(17:55):
sponsor. Hey, Eric. As an artist, what do you find are the most challenging
aspects to a music career especially when you're starting out? Well,
I think one of the first things is just trying to get the direction of
who you are as an artist, where you wanna go, where you wanna be and,
you know, we've talked about it on the show a lot. Who is your target
audience? Who you are? Who what do you stand for? What do you believe
(18:15):
in? What do you think would resonate with an audience and so those are some
of the things that I would feel being a new artist. I obviously, what I
know now is different because I know these things but for people that are out
there like our audience that don't necessarily any direction to go would
be the first things that I would start off with. And having the songs
that incorporate those elements that you're speaking of into it. That's
(18:37):
so important today. Yeah. And I think that's one of the reasons why we started
MUBUTV and why we started this new consulting service that we're offering to all
our insiders out there because that is another one of the big things. I mean
that is the big thing is like having the great songs. That's what it really
starts off. Our friend, Don Grierson always said, it always starts with a great
song. So that's probably besides putting together what your audience
(18:58):
and what your target audience is is the single most important thing. Where are your
songs at currently today? Are you collaborating with people? Are
you trying to go out to networking events where you can connect with other songwriters
and stuff like that? So Yeah. And what are your strengths? Exactly. You
know, are are you a strong lyric writer? Are you a strong melody
writer? Are you a strong musician, a player? Right. You know, and it's
(19:20):
really important to get really strong clarity on those
issues before proceeding. I totally agree, Rich. And, you know, with our
consulting services, we offer a myriad of different packages that we've we've made
it super affordable for everybody. So, you know, if you guys are interested out
there in connecting with us on a coaching call, you can visit
book.mubutv.com and start off with a free of
(19:42):
15 discovery call. Well, yeah. Absolutely. Then we start with an
initial fifteen minute call where we can get a sense of who you are. What
are the issues that you specifically have and want to work
on? Exactly. And we can go from there. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. And we tailor
everything to your needs. It's not like a cookie cutter thing. We kind of really
wanna get to know who you are as an artist, where you at today, what's
(20:03):
the snapshot of you as an artist today and then start trying to
craft something that's tailor made for you. So again, if you're interested, visit
us at book.moobootv.com for your fifteen minute
discovery call. Hi. This is Janie Thel from Music Industry
Mastery. Are you an insider? I am. Describe now.
Dave, as both a manager and label executive, you've worked at the intersection of
(20:25):
creative development and commercial success. At what level
do artists have to be at today in their development to attract
management and a label? Yeah. I mean, that's such an interesting question, isn't it?
It's almost like could have been on the panel today. Yeah. I I didn't
get to it, actually. Right. Yeah. We were all talking too
much, but no. It's such a good question. What it triggers in me
(20:47):
personally is, like, are you signing something because you believe in it, or
are you signing something because you think that they are already making money and you
want a piece of it? Right? And You also just spoke about this
in your previous sense when you talked about, you know, give me five or
six wins in your home territory Right. Which goes to the heart
of this question. Yeah. You know? Whether it's New Zealand or England or, you know,
(21:09):
the five numb five albums that, you know Yep. So it it it it applies
to what you're talking about in a relevant way. No. Absolutely. And and, you know,
I could give another example. There's a guy we're developing at the moment on the
future side who's this guy called, Timmy Skelly, and he's
super cool, amazing singer songwriter. You know? And at the moment, I
think he's got somewhere between seven and ten thousand monthly listeners, which most labels
(21:30):
wouldn't even have a look at it. Right. But he's getting booked on Bonnaroo. He's
touring with people. We've got A and R's reaching out because the music's so
good. Like, I do think that there's a level of quality Mhmm. That can
get management and label to buy in. And he's getting it. Yeah. And he's getting
it. You know, you don't get booked on Bonnaroo unless you're really good. Exactly. Right?
So it's like There's belief. Yeah. I think for me, I'm always
(21:53):
quality first and then numbers
at some stage when you're there because, like, even
I was talking about this with someone yesterday. Right? In the independent alternative
space, that's the only place I have any knowledge. I'm I know nothing about any
other genre. I haven't bothered to learn about it. But in my world, big
singles, the hit singles of your career are few and far
(22:15):
between, and they're the guiding lights to the the
gateway drug to the rest of your catalog. Right. Right?
So, like, everyone discovers Palace through Live Well from album one. That's how
they find them. That's what it is. Everyone loves Live Well. Right. They will sing
along to them. Bitter is probably second, and then there's a couple of others. So
it's like, you know, it it you almost have to just circle the
(22:36):
airport with an artist. Like, you pick them up, you believe in them,
you make the content, you make great records, and you just know at some point
in the next two to three years, you're gonna get an opportunity to land. And
when you get that opportunity, land it and make the most of it. I wanted
to ask you, what regions or emerging markets are you seeing emerging
today? Yeah. I the reason I didn't answer this one on the panel is because
(22:57):
I sort of wanted to just humbly allow for the people
that are truly signing stuff from those emerging markets
to take that answer. Because for me, I think it's you know, I work a
lot of Australian bands. I work a lot of English bands. I've worked some European
stuff. You know, I work a lot of American bands, but it's largely English speaking
music that we are then trying to traffic into the rest of the world. So
(23:19):
there's some really exciting stuff going on in my world where, like, you know, things
like Stellar Trigger, Hundred Days, you know, Thrice Cooked. These are
agencies that are using emerging markets to trigger
big streaming and social responses, and then we move it back into
major territories. Mhmm. You know? So there's a lot that I'm excited about in terms
of these growing markets. You know? You can reach people at a low cost market
(23:41):
and with a great asset. But I'm not personally, like, signing
stuff in Thailand. You know? Like, but but I think it's exciting for us
all. The more people that we can get to a subscription based
model on any streaming at all, that is really what we've been being
told for ten years is the end game. Right? That's how royalty is gonna increase.
That's how we're all gonna make more money, and I think we're all still kinda
(24:02):
waiting for that to happen. So Yeah. I'm very excited to see the the
pickup of streaming and the ability to reach everyone in their hands with the artist
that we represent. And it is it's happening, but just very,
very, very slowly throughout the rest of the world. I mean, the the the the
main market's got it, and it's kind of plateaued. But now we're seeing that growth.
It's just not happening at the speed. Right. It it that that
(24:25):
the other market Someone with a lot more knowledge and more intelligent than me said
the other day that India is a is a country where people like to
own things. They like to I don't know if that's true or not for the
record, but it was really interesting to hear them say that it's still a a
culture where people wanna wanna own a CD. And the guys are talking about it
in Korea as well. Yes. Yeah. Korea and Japan and Germany,
(24:45):
those cultures. So, like, moving to this, like, I don't own it. I rent
Access model. Culture. Yeah. Is like a big shift for people. So, you know
but as far as we know, I think that there's there's a lot of, like,
growth ahead hopefully for the streaming model. Let me ask you. Throughout your
life, have there been any books, films, or documentaries that
you have found to be really inspiring professionally speaking
(25:07):
that you can recommend to our audience? I mean, that's an interesting question. I I
do like, I think there's some biopics, to be honest with
you. I think there's some, you know, biopics, to be honest. I see
found Richard Branson's book to be super inspiring. I think it's good learning to fly.
Learning to fly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Unbelievable. My favorites. You know? And Do
you see the TV series they did with him on on that? No. Oh. Oh,
(25:29):
yeah. I think it's HBO. On HBO, it's a nine
part. Yeah. It's Yeah. All about his life. I mean, it's unbelievable. It's unbelievable. If
you're a fan of Randall's voice Yeah. Then you'll love the this because it's an
actual film on on nine part series on him. And I like you
know, I've I saw that moment. You know, after I left management, I had a
year where I was really kinda, you know, trying to work out what I wanted
(25:50):
to do in my life, and I was very, very inspired
by his vision. I know that sounds like almost like a silly thing to say
about Richard Branson, but in particular, like, he raised all that money and just built
a house with a studio in it. It's like the stupidest thing you could do,
but then, like, tubular bells was made Exactly. And wings came through. And it
was, you know, the other people laugh at me for this, but the other
(26:10):
film has got to be Field of Dreams. How do you say that? Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Over here is this. She'll be like, why don't you say Field of Dreams?
But, again, it's that it's that thing that Richard Branson did. If you build it,
they'll come. Yep. Build a studio and just, like, he didn't know what he was
gonna do. Right. You know, he'd he'd been hammered by the tax man for all
of his import businesses Mhmm. But then built Virgin Records. And, you know,
like, even when they rebranded it, I was so proud to be a part of
(26:33):
that, you know, and to work on with Virgin Records in my everyday life.
That's been a big thing for me. And then, you know, the Beatles Anthology, the
BBC one as my go to, they are the greatest of all
time. There's not a conversation about that. And, like, to see and get back
as well was crazy. That was that's unbelievable. When I start That should be
mandatory viewing for every band. Oh. Mandatory. When you
(26:54):
when the first day that I watched the first episode, I'm like, I
couldn't believe what I was watching. I couldn't understand that it was we're watching
them write these songs in real time, like demoing them together. And I
thought that was really powerful. I mean, everything The Beatles, you know, Sting's autobiography
as well was really meaningful to me when I was younger. And one of my
favorite stories, Corder, always talks about the police, you know, and how they played to
(27:16):
three people in Miami. Oh, yeah. And they were like, let's go out there and
rock it. And it turned out to be the heads of the radio station, and
they put Roxanne on the radio. The rest was history, and, and there's
always something about that that I think is inspiring. So that that's what I'll go
with, but there's been many. There's been many. Well, those are all good choices. All
good choices. I wanted to ask you, Dave, what advice do you have for those
(27:37):
who are committed to building a career as a songwriter, producer, or artist? What would
you tell them? The word the keyword in what you just said is
committed. It's gonna take a long time. It's
gonna take a long time. It's you know, I just talked with some artists after
the panel, you know, and it's it's hard. It's
really hard. It's harder than it's ever been. And everyone's, like, talking talking
(27:59):
about how there's so much more opportunity and there's so much
more ways to reach the audience and there's so much more money swirling around the
music business, and it gives people a full sense of what's really going on. It's
never been harder Right. At the lowest level. It's never been harder at
the beginning. It's never been more saturated. The money
is nothing at the beginning. Like, it's embarrassing how little money
(28:21):
people are getting paid. And the first five years,
you know, you might get lucky, but luck is what it is. Because the first
five years of developing your project and who you are is like it's a
it's one of those things where you have to retain the belief. You have to
try and stay inside yourself, do the most you can without it
driving you crazy. But we've built these algorithmic hamster
(28:43):
wheels for us. We have. I didn't. The the
tech overlords have built these algorithmic hamster wheels for content
creators. The artists are now trying to fit themselves into. I work with some
very credible, very respected big artists. All of them hate the
process. Right. You know, like but they do it because they know they have to,
and they know they wanna reach their fans. But when when I
(29:04):
first came into the music business, I learned under some really amazing people, and the
music business was about talent, about brilliance,
and about using media to reach people so that
when they felt this brilliance, they would agree. That
was it. Now it's almost like American Idol
times 10,000,000,000,000 pieces of content a day. Yes. And
(29:27):
I understand why these young artists are coming up to me afterwards being like, I'm
posting free time today. You know, I'm doing all of this, but I've only got,
you know, 1,500 monthly listeners. I'm failing. I'm nothing. And all
this. And I'm just it breaks my heart. I'm like, no. You're not. Don't
use that language. Like, you're making art. You're pursue and I can tell these people
are real musicians. That's why they're here. That's why they're, like, they're not just in
(29:48):
their bedroom posting every day and thinking, oh, is this working or not? They're trying
to meet people. They're trying to network. And, you know, I have
so much respect for anyone that steps out on the path and tries to be
a creative. I just think that the cream does rise to the top. If you
are truly talented, you know, and and you have to be if you're gonna get
there, I do not think that outside of luck, there is a long term
(30:11):
career for anyone who isn't truly talented. But if you are and you are
persistent and you keep putting out good work into the world, then I genuinely believe
you'll you'll build a good career. But strap in and look to three to
five years. You know, I think it's a a Bill Gates gets credited with it,
but there's a quote that I love which is most people overestimate what
they're capable of in a year, but underestimate what they're capable of in
(30:32):
five. And I love that quote. That's always something I try and keep in my
own brain as well because I always wanna get there. I always wanna get it
all done next week. We all do. I Yeah. I'm like, yeah. We're gonna get
this done by Christmas. And three years later, I'm like, yo. We got it done.
So that's how it works. You know? Alright. Dave, where can people
best reach you? Is it through your website, through socials? Yeah. I guess
so. I mean, to be honest with you, this is the first time I've spoken
(30:55):
on a panel in seventeen years. Wow. Really? And I
am You're very articulate. You're wonderful. You should do it more often. I
am quite private, if I'm honest with you, because, like, I don't know.
I just, like, I guess I spent a long time building a network,
and I'm blessed to be connected all over the world. So I'm busy every
day. But I would love for people to reach out to me. You know, I'm
(31:16):
Avenue a records on Instagram, all one word. And,
yeah, there's an email address on the future's website if anyone wants to hit me
up. Same with mushroom, you know, if you've got any connectivity with mushroom quarter or
connect us together. And, yeah, I'd love to hear from people for sure. I think
that, you know, this has been lovely to to come here today and see a
bunch of old friends and faces. It was nice running into Emma Banks just now
who just Yes. Hadn't seen her in a sec. And, you know, there's some amazing
(31:40):
people talking on this panel, but, you know, I I wanna give more to, you
know, the people that you described that I've just been talking to after. I just
spoke to about 15 artists for about forty five minutes after that.
And, you know, they're all doing different genres. They're all doing different things, but
they're all trying to, like, get the cogs time for them in the right time.
And I I see there is a world where where people like that could benefit
(32:00):
from hearing from me. So I'd love to hear from people if they wanna reach
out on Instagram. It's probably the best way to do it. Wonderful. Dave, we wanna
thank you so much for doing this. We really, really appreciate it. Thank
you. No. I really enjoyed it. Thanks a lot, guys. Man,
that was a great conversation. Yeah. And I, you know,
I found it very you know, did you did you notice he said he's never,
(32:20):
you know, spoken on on interviews before. He's not a
Interviewing type. Type. Yeah. And and, man, what I mean, there are
gems in here. Yeah. You know, his his insight and his
knowledge, I thought, was so incredibly not only
valuable, but it it had such relevant points for our
audience for today. Right. One of the things, Eric, that I I I thought was
(32:43):
so fascinating, he talked about a guy,
Timmy Timmy Skelly Skelly, I think. He said
that and this, I think, applies to so many artists today where,
you know, he only has something like, you know, 10,000 monthly listeners,
which most labels or whoever wouldn't even give a a shot to, but he
was able to he was able to get them booked at Bonnaroo. Like,
(33:05):
that is the world we are living in today.
Right. The small developing artist. You know, for those
in the business, Billie Eilish was that. Right. Most people think she just
came on the scene with her first up. No. For three years and
nine months prior Single after single and building.
And building. Exactly. This is that now
(33:27):
in 2025. And it goes to show you that you don't need to have a
million followers or anything like that. That people are seeing through that and
willing to take the chances to build into that. Absolutely. And I
thought that was a really important, valuable, salient point for our
listeners to hear. Yeah. Also, I I felt that another point that he
brought that was really great was on what level that artists need to be to
(33:49):
attract management and label interest, it triggers in this is what he
said, you know, and I quote, it triggers in me personally. Are you signing something
because you believe in it, or are you signing something because you think that they
are already making money and you want a piece of it? I do think that
there's a level of quality that can get management and label to buy in and
it's exactly this example that you just illustrated in the previous point about having
(34:10):
those 10,000 followers, but yet he saw something that he felt he could build
from and got him on that Bonnaroo gig. Absolutely.
Yes. Because, I mean, let's face it. No matter if you're a filmmaker, no
matter if you're a recording artist, or a book author, or a
musician, so much of this business
really does come down to belief. Whether
(34:32):
it's my belief in you as a manager, your belief in the artist, or
whatever, it's about belief. Hey, Insiders. Thanks so much for
tuning into this episode. We really appreciate it. To get show notes,
links, and everything that was mentioned during this interview, head on over to our official
website at
mubutv.com/podcast/shownotes.
(34:53):
If you're enjoying the content and what we're doing here on the show, please subscribe
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b u TV. Don't forget to catch our flagship show, the
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(35:38):
by Disciples of Babylon, and be sure to tune in next week for another
episode of the MUBUTV Music Business Insider
Podcast.
On today's podcast, we sit down with Dave Wallace, the music
(00:03):
executive behind breaking UK bands like Two Door Cinema Club,
Blossoms, and Bombay Bicycle Club into The US market. Dave
shares his incredible journey from UK Booking Agent to global music
strategist, revealing the biggest challenges of translating domestic success
into international recognition. We dive deep into the art of building a
global story around an artist, the evolving threshold for attracting labels
(00:25):
and management, and what it really takes to commit to a career as an artist
or songwriter today. You'll hear inside stories about developing
breakout acts, the truth about emerging markets, and the hard fought
lessons that can only come from years in the trenches. If you're ready to learn
from one of the industry's top insiders, stay tuned because this
episode is packed with wisdom you won't wanna miss. Insiders,
(00:47):
are you ready? Welcome to MUBUTV's
Music Business Insider Podcast where our mission is to educate,
empower, and engage artists and music business professionals who are
dedicated to having a successful career in the new music industry.
Here are your hosts, Ritch Esra and Eric Knight. Welcome
back, Insiders, to another episode of the MUBUTV Music Business
(01:11):
Insider podcast, where our mission is to educate, empower, and
engage your music career. On today's show, we're excited to welcome Dave Wallace,
a visionary manager and executive who's played a key role in breaking
iconic UK bands like Tudor Cinema Club, Blossoms, and
Bombay Bicycle Club into The US market. In this raw and
insightful interview, Dave takes us deep inside the challenges of translating
(01:33):
domestic success into global recognition and reveals the evolution
of his strategies working across continents and industry giants like
Virgin Music and Roc Nation. We'll explore how creating momentum in
your home territory can spark international buzz, the art of
storytelling to media and gatekeepers, and why artistic quality still
matters even in the age of numbers and algorithms. Dave also
(01:55):
offers practical advice for up and coming songwriters, producers, and
artists on what it truly takes to build a sustainable career in today's
music business. Plus, he recommends his favorite books and documentaries for
anyone looking for inspiration on this journey. You don't wanna miss this
master class in international artist development, industry insight, and
the mindset it takes to make it in the modern music world. Stay tuned.
(02:17):
But first, a word from our sponsor. Hey, Insiders. Are you an
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book.mubutv.com. Hi.
This is Travis Jerome. I'm a music supervisor at Ignition Creative, and you're listening to
the MUBUTV Music Business Insider podcast. Welcome back, Insiders.
(04:07):
Today's featured guest is none other than the general manager of
Mushroom Records in The US, Dave Wallace. This was a
really, really interesting conversation. I didn't know Dave before
this. Right. Neither did I. Yeah. Yeah. And and got to know who he
was. Very, very interesting guy. What I loved about Dave was
that he comes from the management side. This is a very this is a very
(04:29):
interesting point because he's not somebody that's, you know, strictly
from the recorded music side and doesn't know what it takes in
terms of managing artists. Right. It's somebody who comes from
the management side. And what makes that so important, I think, and distinct
is the fact that when you come from the management side, you see the perspective
of what it takes to manage talent, both from the
(04:52):
artist side and the label side and the agent side and
producer and all of those relationships. And he talked about that
element that I thought was so important of the network Right. That
you need to have and the networking skills that you need to have in terms
of breaking talent. You know? That's a very, very important part that I think
it's it's a subtle point, but it's a very important one. And it's one that
(05:14):
I thought he illustrated really, really well in his
conversation with us about artists because and I think he did that because just
innately, he comes from managing talent, and he understood that principle
very, very well. One of the other things that I thought was really great was
the importance of storytelling and artist success. Translating your
story in a way that US media, radio, and booking agents
(05:36):
can relate to is crucial for breaking artists abroad. One of the things that I
loved was, you know, how much he studied the American market and how he
got to know all the nooks and crannies and all the nuances because it is
a behemoth. This market is huge compared to the rest of the world. So I
thought that that was a great discussion which you guys are gonna be listening to.
Absolutely. Storytelling, you know, you know our philosophy.
(05:58):
The most important component in marketing music today is getting
people's attention, and one of the ways you do that is, as you're saying,
Eric, is creating a compelling narrative. Yeah. This has become
and it's true across all media. I mean, I don't wanna get off on attention
on that, but it's very true what you're saying is creating that narrative,
creating that storytelling element, very, very important in
(06:20):
marketing artists today. And a perfect example, you recently sent me a
story about Ghost having the number one record. I had read the article, and
it was just interesting because they talked a lot about their narrative and how he
built Tobias, which is the guy who's the main you know, it's it's his
creation, Tobias Forge, and how he created this whole, like, universe
and how important that has become as part of their narrative and story
(06:42):
and why they have have the number one record in the country after, I think,
a couple of years for rock albums. And it's just very interesting because there's a
perfect example there how somebody can build a universe and build a whole world
And a narrative. Yeah. And how it makes it so important for keeping
people engaged in this economy that we're in that, like, it's just
you're you're on from one thing to the next thing to the next thing because
(07:04):
you're being bombarded as we've talked about. Yes. But what makes your point so important
is that if you have the narrative, like, you use the illustration of Ghost, which
I believe it's their fourth Six albums. Six albums. Six. Okay. Sixth. Just like
Sabrina Carpenter. It's the sixth. That's what it takes today, ladies and gentlemen.
Yeah. He built that very, very carefully. And when you
don't necessarily have hit records to constantly bombard people with, you
(07:26):
better have a narrative that they remember. And with that, insiders, sit
back, relax, and enjoy our featured conversation from Muse
Expo twenty twenty five with Dave Wallace. Dave,
welcome to the show. Thanks for having me. Thank you so much. You know,
throughout your career, you've played a pivotal role in breaking UK bands
into The US market from Tudor Cinema Club to Blossoms to
(07:48):
Bombay Bicycle Club. What are the biggest challenges
in translating domestic success into international recognition,
and how have your strategies evolved in this particular area over the
years? In at the deep end Yeah. From from the first one.
I mean, I think, I didn't really expect to end up in
this specific role. You know, I started out as an agent
(08:11):
in The UK out of university, and that was actually where I signed
Las Vegas and to do a cinema club. And really that role was was
helping them get into Europe and the rest of the world. And America was a
bit of a mystery to me. And as I built a successful roster at Primary
Talent, I went for lunch with Ian McAndrew, and
he offered me a job at wildlife. And at the time, you know, the
(08:33):
ArtzyMonkey is my favorite band. You know, Ian is one of the
greatest managers of all time, bar none. The opportunity was too good for
me to turn down. So I had this incredibly fortunate period
of time where I get to be in the office every day with really one
of the best, greatest English managers to ever do it and learned so much
from me. And then he put so much time into me, and it was incredible.
(08:54):
And around 2012 I think it was 2011, '20 '12, I'd signed
this band called Morning Parade, and I and they were signed to Parlophone
Records in The UK, and and it was difficult. Radio one wasn't really pushing a
lot of guitar music, and I was spending more and more time in
America trying to understand the marketplace. I was fascinated because
I was by no means an expert in Europe and the rest of the world
(09:16):
at this point in my life, but at the same time, I'd seen Las Vegas
blow up and tour with U2 all over the world and head and book them
to headline festivals. And I'd seen Tudor Cinema Club break out of Europe and
and come back and break in The UK in that order, you know, with Kitsune
Records doing an incredible job over there. And I'd also watched Ian
manage the Monkees. You know, they really were the biggest biggest band in the
(09:37):
world, really, outside of North America where they hadn't actually completely broken yet at
that stage. And, you know, through no real
skill of my own, Capitol Records, who were the partner of
Parlophone, worked morning parade's headlights to
alternative radio in 2011. And Jeff Reagan loved the song,
and he played the shit out of it. He played it a lot, and people
(09:59):
really liked it. And it was getting requested a lot, and people really liked the
song. And around that time, you know, I decided to come to
America and really focus on the band and, you know, left the inn under great
circumstances and set up my own management business in North America.
And that was just me and morning parade touring America, putting this record on
TV and climbing the radio charts and learning as we go. And I was
(10:20):
fascinated by this territory where, you know, I'd grown up in a
world where, like, if you didn't get on Radio one, you weren't going
anywhere. You know, it was like a filtration system
of artists. And Radio one was playing less and less guitar
bands at the time, which has always been my passion really, you know, indie rock
alternative. And I came out here and there was 98 alternative radio stations
(10:41):
and, you know, 50 to 60 triple a stations and 70
plus active rock stations. And I was like, wow. Like, you
know and and these guys that I was learning from, you know, Bill Carroll, bless
him, and Dave Barbas and Howard Petruzzo, like,
these guys that were the, you know, the engine room of
of Capitol Records. I learned so much from them in that period of time, and
(11:03):
it's like their energy was like, yo, if it didn't work in Rhode Island, fuck
it. Let's go to Boston. Like, if it don't work there, then fuck it. Let's
go to Philadelphia. And I was just like, wow. This is so exciting. Like, there
isn't this moment where it's do or die in a playlist meeting. It's just
like, let's work this record, you know. And at that
time, you know, morning parade were doing very, very well in the EMI
(11:24):
system because of this growth in North America. And I met with
a band called You Me At Six who were already, you know,
playing their first arenas and stuff, and they were a very established band and very,
very talented rock band. And I met them and we decided to work together for
management, which for me, I guess I was probably about 27 at the time was
kinda shocked everyone in the business that I'd signed this big band, but they were
(11:45):
really keen to grow in North America. And we made a great record with Nia
Laverne in LA. We had number one at rock record in
America with BMG who were the label partner. And at the time, this is pre
quarter. It's pre quarter Marshall. You know, this is when, really, they were a publisher.
And just by a force of will, me and the band kind of put it
out there, found licensed partners. You know, we worked with Prospect Park and
(12:06):
Jeremy Summers and all these people to put the record at the top of the
chart. We had a number one rock record in Australia. We had a number one
album in The UK. We sold out the O2 Arena. And I started to become
fascinated with the global promotion of music. And, you know, I then managed
back for lashes and and some other artists as
well. So all of this to say that by 2017, I'd sold
(12:27):
my management business to Roc Nation three six zero, and
I took some time out to really kinda decide, like, what do I wanna
do now? I didn't wanna be a manager anymore. I feel like my
I'd always get got into music because I I love passionately promoting
music. It's it's kinda what gets me out of bed in the morning. And being
a manager, I just kinda ended up there. And, you know, when the three six
(12:49):
zero thing didn't work out as planned, I took a break and
Jim Chancellor and I, who Jim Chancellor and Michael Rowe had really formed the
Caroline Group, which is still kind of the backbone of what Virgin Music
is today. And we were all kind of obsessed with breaking music internationally
because it was something that we felt that the majors weren't able to do unless
you were the top 10. You know, like, they're so good at it.
(13:11):
Like, this isn't me saying majors can't break stuff internationally. It's what they do.
But you had to be in the top 10 or so artists. And we
had all these incredible acts like this very famous stories about Jim
flying to LA to meet with them to make sure that Snow Patrol broke. You
know, he was always fighting these battles and and is a real mentor of mine
as is Korda. And I know that we you know, when Korda came into You
(13:32):
Me At Six on the second album, we were really trying to push BMG to
up their game and break them in North America, and we had our own struggles
there. And so, you know, a lot of the people that have mentored me
through the years have been very focused on the international breaking of music. And
I suddenly was lucky enough to play a role for Virgin
Music, Caroline at the time, but Virgin Music where I was
(13:53):
bringing Frank Turner, Self Esteem, you know,
Blossom, Bombay Bicycle Club, Palace who have had a huge successful,
you know, five years with that. It's just sold out the Palladium. They're doing three
to 5,000 a night all around the world, thanks to the work of the entire
Virgin system, not just me. So that's that's like some
historics about how I ended up in this role, which I guess is worth
(14:15):
saying. But, you know, the the strategy of it all really changes
as much as the music industry does from time to time. But I think it
would be wrong of me to act as though, like, this international
growth piece into North America doesn't happen without success in The
UK. Right? Or the home territory. So, like, you know, I'm doing
I'm doing all the mushroom stuff for Korda and for the Godinski family,
(14:38):
and I love it. And they've got some amazing things, but they create
the stories around Alex Leahy or Gordy. They're the ones
that put it on new music Friday ANZ and, you
know, build Tobias out of the home market. And
then you've got Corder in The UK who's putting wins on the board in The
UK and me that's following from that. Because I always say to
(15:00):
people, if you give me five or six very
compelling wins in the home territory,
I can turn that into hopefully 10 to 20 to 30 wins
here because there's so many places to go with it. You have a story.
Yes. Yeah. And you mentioned the translation. Yeah. The translation
piece is maybe, like, the most important thing. It's like, how can
(15:22):
I frame this in a way where this radio station or this
media outlet or this booking agent that we wanna sign it can understand
that this is not just something that's good? It's something that they
understand how to work with themselves. Something that's similar to what they already have on
the playlist, what they already have on the roster, what they already have in the
magazine. You know? Yeah. And I think that, like, that's
(15:44):
kind of been the role, and it's it's really fun, you know, to be like
like, we Mushroom's got this guy, Anthony Smerek. Right? And
Cord has done an amazing job in The UK. He was six music
artist of the year last year. He's selling out shows all across the
country, and a lot of people crassly compare it to the streets.
If you know the streets, Mike Skinner, you know, because it's kind of spoken
(16:06):
word over dance beats, but it's actually more like Alex
Turner doing something over taiko. You know? And when you
say that to Americans, they're like, oh, wow. I fuck with that big
time. Like, Alex Turner doing over taiko. And when they come to
the show, they really get it, you know, and it's little things like that where
you're like, because his poetry is more elevated than Mike's. Well, I'm a huge
(16:27):
streets fan, but he's he's the voice of the working class, whereas
Anthony's is very much in that kind of tranquility
base, Sick Monkeys era, poetry. So I just
think that that's a big part of the game. Like, blossoms, you know, blossoms
were a band that, you know, they've have, I think, five number one albums in
a row in The UK. Wow. You know, Brit Award, Artist of
(16:49):
the Year. You know, they're massive. They're absolutely massive in The UK. They do
outdoor stadiums and festivals, and, you know, no one could really get it going
here in America. And and we had a really good run with them where we
were able to help people see why they were like the Arctic Arctic Monkeys, why
they were on the radio with the 1975 in The UK. And, you know, one
of the things I always say as an example is, like, when you look at
the 1975 or even Catfish and the Bottleman,
(17:11):
right, those artists were day one
narrative and story into media. So, like, as it
started to break in The UK, their teams were out telling the story
in a very compelling way, helping people understand what it was, and they broke the
world as a result. Whereas, like, Blossoms, they broke
in The UK, and people weren't really telling the story in cadence in North
(17:34):
America. You know, I think they'd be fine with me saying that, you know, because
I already tried on my album as well. But it's like, if someone's in there
day and date, like day one, telling the story before the first album,
you have a much bigger chance to break. Hey, Insiders. We hope that you've been
enjoying our featured conversation. Stay tuned because we've got so much
value coming your way. But before we dive back in, a word from our
(17:55):
sponsor. Hey, Eric. As an artist, what do you find are the most challenging
aspects to a music career especially when you're starting out? Well,
I think one of the first things is just trying to get the direction of
who you are as an artist, where you wanna go, where you wanna be and,
you know, we've talked about it on the show a lot. Who is your target
audience? Who you are? Who what do you stand for? What do you believe
(18:15):
in? What do you think would resonate with an audience and so those are some
of the things that I would feel being a new artist. I obviously, what I
know now is different because I know these things but for people that are out
there like our audience that don't necessarily any direction to go would
be the first things that I would start off with. And having the songs
that incorporate those elements that you're speaking of into it. That's
(18:37):
so important today. Yeah. And I think that's one of the reasons why we started
MUBUTV and why we started this new consulting service that we're offering to all
our insiders out there because that is another one of the big things. I mean
that is the big thing is like having the great songs. That's what it really
starts off. Our friend, Don Grierson always said, it always starts with a great
song. So that's probably besides putting together what your audience
(18:58):
and what your target audience is is the single most important thing. Where are your
songs at currently today? Are you collaborating with people? Are
you trying to go out to networking events where you can connect with other songwriters
and stuff like that? So Yeah. And what are your strengths? Exactly. You
know, are are you a strong lyric writer? Are you a strong melody
writer? Are you a strong musician, a player? Right. You know, and it's
(19:20):
really important to get really strong clarity on those
issues before proceeding. I totally agree, Rich. And, you know, with our
consulting services, we offer a myriad of different packages that we've we've made
it super affordable for everybody. So, you know, if you guys are interested out
there in connecting with us on a coaching call, you can visit
book.mubutv.com and start off with a free of
(19:42):
15 discovery call. Well, yeah. Absolutely. Then we start with an
initial fifteen minute call where we can get a sense of who you are. What
are the issues that you specifically have and want to work
on? Exactly. And we can go from there. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. And we tailor
everything to your needs. It's not like a cookie cutter thing. We kind of really
wanna get to know who you are as an artist, where you at today, what's
(20:03):
the snapshot of you as an artist today and then start trying to
craft something that's tailor made for you. So again, if you're interested, visit
us at book.moobootv.com for your fifteen minute
discovery call. Hi. This is Janie Thel from Music Industry
Mastery. Are you an insider? I am. Describe now.
Dave, as both a manager and label executive, you've worked at the intersection of
(20:25):
creative development and commercial success. At what level
do artists have to be at today in their development to attract
management and a label? Yeah. I mean, that's such an interesting question, isn't it?
It's almost like could have been on the panel today. Yeah. I I didn't
get to it, actually. Right. Yeah. We were all talking too
much, but no. It's such a good question. What it triggers in me
(20:47):
personally is, like, are you signing something because you believe in it, or
are you signing something because you think that they are already making money and you
want a piece of it? Right? And You also just spoke about this
in your previous sense when you talked about, you know, give me five or
six wins in your home territory Right. Which goes to the heart
of this question. Yeah. You know? Whether it's New Zealand or England or, you know,
(21:09):
the five numb five albums that, you know Yep. So it it it it applies
to what you're talking about in a relevant way. No. Absolutely. And and, you know,
I could give another example. There's a guy we're developing at the moment on the
future side who's this guy called, Timmy Skelly, and he's
super cool, amazing singer songwriter. You know? And at the moment, I
think he's got somewhere between seven and ten thousand monthly listeners, which most labels
(21:30):
wouldn't even have a look at it. Right. But he's getting booked on Bonnaroo. He's
touring with people. We've got A and R's reaching out because the music's so
good. Like, I do think that there's a level of quality Mhmm. That can
get management and label to buy in. And he's getting it. Yeah. And he's getting
it. You know, you don't get booked on Bonnaroo unless you're really good. Exactly. Right?
So it's like There's belief. Yeah. I think for me, I'm always
(21:53):
quality first and then numbers
at some stage when you're there because, like, even
I was talking about this with someone yesterday. Right? In the independent alternative
space, that's the only place I have any knowledge. I'm I know nothing about any
other genre. I haven't bothered to learn about it. But in my world, big
singles, the hit singles of your career are few and far
(22:15):
between, and they're the guiding lights to the the
gateway drug to the rest of your catalog. Right. Right?
So, like, everyone discovers Palace through Live Well from album one. That's how
they find them. That's what it is. Everyone loves Live Well. Right. They will sing
along to them. Bitter is probably second, and then there's a couple of others. So
it's like, you know, it it you almost have to just circle the
(22:36):
airport with an artist. Like, you pick them up, you believe in them,
you make the content, you make great records, and you just know at some point
in the next two to three years, you're gonna get an opportunity to land. And
when you get that opportunity, land it and make the most of it. I wanted
to ask you, what regions or emerging markets are you seeing emerging
today? Yeah. I the reason I didn't answer this one on the panel is because
(22:57):
I sort of wanted to just humbly allow for the people
that are truly signing stuff from those emerging markets
to take that answer. Because for me, I think it's you know, I work a
lot of Australian bands. I work a lot of English bands. I've worked some European
stuff. You know, I work a lot of American bands, but it's largely English speaking
music that we are then trying to traffic into the rest of the world. So
(23:19):
there's some really exciting stuff going on in my world where, like, you know, things
like Stellar Trigger, Hundred Days, you know, Thrice Cooked. These are
agencies that are using emerging markets to trigger
big streaming and social responses, and then we move it back into
major territories. Mhmm. You know? So there's a lot that I'm excited about in terms
of these growing markets. You know? You can reach people at a low cost market
(23:41):
and with a great asset. But I'm not personally, like, signing
stuff in Thailand. You know? Like, but but I think it's exciting for us
all. The more people that we can get to a subscription based
model on any streaming at all, that is really what we've been being
told for ten years is the end game. Right? That's how royalty is gonna increase.
That's how we're all gonna make more money, and I think we're all still kinda
(24:02):
waiting for that to happen. So Yeah. I'm very excited to see the the
pickup of streaming and the ability to reach everyone in their hands with the artist
that we represent. And it is it's happening, but just very,
very, very slowly throughout the rest of the world. I mean, the the the the
main market's got it, and it's kind of plateaued. But now we're seeing that growth.
It's just not happening at the speed. Right. It it that that
(24:25):
the other market Someone with a lot more knowledge and more intelligent than me said
the other day that India is a is a country where people like to
own things. They like to I don't know if that's true or not for the
record, but it was really interesting to hear them say that it's still a a
culture where people wanna wanna own a CD. And the guys are talking about it
in Korea as well. Yes. Yeah. Korea and Japan and Germany,
(24:45):
those cultures. So, like, moving to this, like, I don't own it. I rent
Access model. Culture. Yeah. Is like a big shift for people. So, you know
but as far as we know, I think that there's there's a lot of, like,
growth ahead hopefully for the streaming model. Let me ask you. Throughout your
life, have there been any books, films, or documentaries that
you have found to be really inspiring professionally speaking
(25:07):
that you can recommend to our audience? I mean, that's an interesting question. I I
do like, I think there's some biopics, to be honest with
you. I think there's some, you know, biopics, to be honest. I see
found Richard Branson's book to be super inspiring. I think it's good learning to fly.
Learning to fly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Unbelievable. My favorites. You know? And Do
you see the TV series they did with him on on that? No. Oh. Oh,
(25:29):
yeah. I think it's HBO. On HBO, it's a nine
part. Yeah. It's Yeah. All about his life. I mean, it's unbelievable. It's unbelievable. If
you're a fan of Randall's voice Yeah. Then you'll love the this because it's an
actual film on on nine part series on him. And I like you
know, I've I saw that moment. You know, after I left management, I had a
year where I was really kinda, you know, trying to work out what I wanted
(25:50):
to do in my life, and I was very, very inspired
by his vision. I know that sounds like almost like a silly thing to say
about Richard Branson, but in particular, like, he raised all that money and just built
a house with a studio in it. It's like the stupidest thing you could do,
but then, like, tubular bells was made Exactly. And wings came through. And it
was, you know, the other people laugh at me for this, but the other
(26:10):
film has got to be Field of Dreams. How do you say that? Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Over here is this. She'll be like, why don't you say Field of Dreams?
But, again, it's that it's that thing that Richard Branson did. If you build it,
they'll come. Yep. Build a studio and just, like, he didn't know what he was
gonna do. Right. You know, he'd he'd been hammered by the tax man for all
of his import businesses Mhmm. But then built Virgin Records. And, you know,
like, even when they rebranded it, I was so proud to be a part of
(26:33):
that, you know, and to work on with Virgin Records in my everyday life.
That's been a big thing for me. And then, you know, the Beatles Anthology, the
BBC one as my go to, they are the greatest of all
time. There's not a conversation about that. And, like, to see and get back
as well was crazy. That was that's unbelievable. When I start That should be
mandatory viewing for every band. Oh. Mandatory. When you
(26:54):
when the first day that I watched the first episode, I'm like, I
couldn't believe what I was watching. I couldn't understand that it was we're watching
them write these songs in real time, like demoing them together. And I
thought that was really powerful. I mean, everything The Beatles, you know, Sting's autobiography
as well was really meaningful to me when I was younger. And one of my
favorite stories, Corder, always talks about the police, you know, and how they played to
(27:16):
three people in Miami. Oh, yeah. And they were like, let's go out there and
rock it. And it turned out to be the heads of the radio station, and
they put Roxanne on the radio. The rest was history, and, and there's
always something about that that I think is inspiring. So that that's what I'll go
with, but there's been many. There's been many. Well, those are all good choices. All
good choices. I wanted to ask you, Dave, what advice do you have for those
(27:37):
who are committed to building a career as a songwriter, producer, or artist? What would
you tell them? The word the keyword in what you just said is
committed. It's gonna take a long time. It's
gonna take a long time. It's you know, I just talked with some artists after
the panel, you know, and it's it's hard. It's
really hard. It's harder than it's ever been. And everyone's, like, talking talking
(27:59):
about how there's so much more opportunity and there's so much
more ways to reach the audience and there's so much more money swirling around the
music business, and it gives people a full sense of what's really going on. It's
never been harder Right. At the lowest level. It's never been harder at
the beginning. It's never been more saturated. The money
is nothing at the beginning. Like, it's embarrassing how little money
(28:21):
people are getting paid. And the first five years,
you know, you might get lucky, but luck is what it is. Because the first
five years of developing your project and who you are is like it's a
it's one of those things where you have to retain the belief. You have to
try and stay inside yourself, do the most you can without it
driving you crazy. But we've built these algorithmic hamster
(28:43):
wheels for us. We have. I didn't. The the
tech overlords have built these algorithmic hamster wheels for content
creators. The artists are now trying to fit themselves into. I work with some
very credible, very respected big artists. All of them hate the
process. Right. You know, like but they do it because they know they have to,
and they know they wanna reach their fans. But when when I
(29:04):
first came into the music business, I learned under some really amazing people, and the
music business was about talent, about brilliance,
and about using media to reach people so that
when they felt this brilliance, they would agree. That
was it. Now it's almost like American Idol
times 10,000,000,000,000 pieces of content a day. Yes. And
(29:27):
I understand why these young artists are coming up to me afterwards being like, I'm
posting free time today. You know, I'm doing all of this, but I've only got,
you know, 1,500 monthly listeners. I'm failing. I'm nothing. And all
this. And I'm just it breaks my heart. I'm like, no. You're not. Don't
use that language. Like, you're making art. You're pursue and I can tell these people
are real musicians. That's why they're here. That's why they're, like, they're not just in
(29:48):
their bedroom posting every day and thinking, oh, is this working or not? They're trying
to meet people. They're trying to network. And, you know, I have
so much respect for anyone that steps out on the path and tries to be
a creative. I just think that the cream does rise to the top. If you
are truly talented, you know, and and you have to be if you're gonna get
there, I do not think that outside of luck, there is a long term
(30:11):
career for anyone who isn't truly talented. But if you are and you are
persistent and you keep putting out good work into the world, then I genuinely believe
you'll you'll build a good career. But strap in and look to three to
five years. You know, I think it's a a Bill Gates gets credited with it,
but there's a quote that I love which is most people overestimate what
they're capable of in a year, but underestimate what they're capable of in
(30:32):
five. And I love that quote. That's always something I try and keep in my
own brain as well because I always wanna get there. I always wanna get it
all done next week. We all do. I Yeah. I'm like, yeah. We're gonna get
this done by Christmas. And three years later, I'm like, yo. We got it done.
So that's how it works. You know? Alright. Dave, where can people
best reach you? Is it through your website, through socials? Yeah. I guess
so. I mean, to be honest with you, this is the first time I've spoken
(30:55):
on a panel in seventeen years. Wow. Really? And I
am You're very articulate. You're wonderful. You should do it more often. I
am quite private, if I'm honest with you, because, like, I don't know.
I just, like, I guess I spent a long time building a network,
and I'm blessed to be connected all over the world. So I'm busy every
day. But I would love for people to reach out to me. You know, I'm
(31:16):
Avenue a records on Instagram, all one word. And,
yeah, there's an email address on the future's website if anyone wants to hit me
up. Same with mushroom, you know, if you've got any connectivity with mushroom quarter or
connect us together. And, yeah, I'd love to hear from people for sure. I think
that, you know, this has been lovely to to come here today and see a
bunch of old friends and faces. It was nice running into Emma Banks just now
who just Yes. Hadn't seen her in a sec. And, you know, there's some amazing
(31:40):
people talking on this panel, but, you know, I I wanna give more to, you
know, the people that you described that I've just been talking to after. I just
spoke to about 15 artists for about forty five minutes after that.
And, you know, they're all doing different genres. They're all doing different things, but
they're all trying to, like, get the cogs time for them in the right time.
And I I see there is a world where where people like that could benefit
(32:00):
from hearing from me. So I'd love to hear from people if they wanna reach
out on Instagram. It's probably the best way to do it. Wonderful. Dave, we wanna
thank you so much for doing this. We really, really appreciate it. Thank
you. No. I really enjoyed it. Thanks a lot, guys. Man,
that was a great conversation. Yeah. And I, you know,
I found it very you know, did you did you notice he said he's never,
(32:20):
you know, spoken on on interviews before. He's not a
Interviewing type. Type. Yeah. And and, man, what I mean, there are
gems in here. Yeah. You know, his his insight and his
knowledge, I thought, was so incredibly not only
valuable, but it it had such relevant points for our
audience for today. Right. One of the things, Eric, that I I I thought was
(32:43):
so fascinating, he talked about a guy,
Timmy Timmy Skelly Skelly, I think. He said
that and this, I think, applies to so many artists today where,
you know, he only has something like, you know, 10,000 monthly listeners,
which most labels or whoever wouldn't even give a a shot to, but he
was able to he was able to get them booked at Bonnaroo. Like,
(33:05):
that is the world we are living in today.
Right. The small developing artist. You know, for those
in the business, Billie Eilish was that. Right. Most people think she just
came on the scene with her first up. No. For three years and
nine months prior Single after single and building.
And building. Exactly. This is that now
(33:27):
in 2025. And it goes to show you that you don't need to have a
million followers or anything like that. That people are seeing through that and
willing to take the chances to build into that. Absolutely. And I
thought that was a really important, valuable, salient point for our
listeners to hear. Yeah. Also, I I felt that another point that he
brought that was really great was on what level that artists need to be to
(33:49):
attract management and label interest, it triggers in this is what he
said, you know, and I quote, it triggers in me personally. Are you signing something
because you believe in it, or are you signing something because you think that they
are already making money and you want a piece of it? I do think that
there's a level of quality that can get management and label to buy in and
it's exactly this example that you just illustrated in the previous point about having
(34:10):
those 10,000 followers, but yet he saw something that he felt he could build
from and got him on that Bonnaroo gig. Absolutely.
Yes. Because, I mean, let's face it. No matter if you're a filmmaker, no
matter if you're a recording artist, or a book author, or a
musician, so much of this business
really does come down to belief. Whether
(34:32):
it's my belief in you as a manager, your belief in the artist, or
whatever, it's about belief. Hey, Insiders. Thanks so much for
tuning into this episode. We really appreciate it. To get show notes,
links, and everything that was mentioned during this interview, head on over to our official
website at
mubutv.com/podcast/shownotes.
(34:53):
If you're enjoying the content and what we're doing here on the show, please subscribe
to the podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever
you listen to podcasts from. And don't forget to rate and review our show at
iTunes. Five star reviews are always welcome and help to ensure
that our podcast stands out on the top rated and new and noteworthy
charts on iTunes and our space. You can also find us at social
(35:15):
media at Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, and Twitter
x, all ending with the handle MUBUTV, which is spelled m u
b u TV. Don't forget to catch our flagship show, the
MUBUTV music business insider video series, airing
every week on YouTube at
YouTube.com/MUBUTV. This show
was produced and created by Ritch Esra and Eric Knight. Theme music
(35:38):
by Disciples of Babylon, and be sure to tune in next week for another
episode of the MUBUTV Music Business Insider
Podcast.
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