How Do You REALLY Break Into Music Publishing? With Kim Frankiewicz from Concord Music Publishing

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
On today's podcast, we sit down with Kim Frankiewicz, global Head of
Creative at Concord Music Publishing and one of the most respected
voices in the publishing world. Kim opens up about the massive
changes in music publishing, from the impact of streaming royalties
to why the modern songwriter and artist need to be more
proactive than ever. We dove into the essential qualities she

(00:21):
looks for creatively and professionally when signing new
talent, and why having the right team behind you can make or
break a career. Kim also shares her unique insight
on the rise of female leadership in music publishing, the challenges
facing today's creators, and what holds some artists back
from true success. If you're serious about making it in today's music

(00:43):
business, this conversation is an absolute must. Music
Business Insiders, Are you ready?
Welcome to MUBUTV's Music Business Insider Podcast where
our mission is to educate, empower and engage artists and
music business professionals who are dedicated to having a successful career
in the new music industry. Here are your hosts, Ritch

(01:05):
Esra and Eric Knight. Welcome back, insiders, to another
episode of the MUBUTV Music Business Insider Podcast where
our mission is to educate, empower and engage your music career.
On today's show, we have a very special guest, Kim Frankiewicz, the Global Head
of Creative at Concord Music Publishing. Kim is one of the most
respected and influential figures in the world of music publishing, guiding a

(01:27):
worldwide A&R team and shaping the careers of songwriters and
and artists across the globe. In this raw, insightful
conversation, we dive deep into the evolving landscape of music
publishing. From big changes in royalty income for writers and
producers, to the critical importance of management teams, to why artists
need to be more proactive and self sufficient than ever before. Kim shares

(01:49):
her criteria for discovering and signing new talent, her perspective on
gender parity in the industry and the obstacles that face
today's emerging songwriters, artists and producers. If you're
serious about your music career, whether you're an artist, songwriter,
manager, or just curious about the business side of things, this is
an episode you absolutely can't miss. Kim offers not only

(02:11):
practical advice, but also inspiration for those navigating the
challenges of the modern music industry. So get ready to take notes and stay
tuned. But first, a word from our sponsor. Hey insiders,
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professional looking to take your career to the next level? Well, look no
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(02:33):
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(03:39):
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(04:01):
Hi, this is Jennifer Smith, music supervisor at Rat Dance Party, and you're listening
to the MUBUTV Music Business Insider Podcast. Welcome back
insiders. Today's featured guest is none other than the great Kim
Frankiewicz. And this was a very, very interesting conversation for many
reasons. You know, Kim, I had the pleasure of doing an interview
with her just prior to this at musexpo where she was on

(04:23):
a panel and it was so interesting, you know, hearing some of her history, where
she started many years ago in Australia with Chris Murphy, who was the,
you know, legendary manager of inxs. And she worked for him
for many years and he was the one that guided her into music publishing. And
she has become, you know, not only a powerhouse, but one of
the leading executives on the global front of music publishing. One of the most

(04:45):
interesting things that she talked about and that, you know, a lot of people don't
really necessarily think of, but you hear a lot about it, is the female
representation in music publishing on the top creative
level is much more extensive in music publishing perhaps than it is in
A&R. And I asked her about that and she speaks about that, you know, where
that, you know, when you look at her, when you look at Jody Gerson, when

(05:06):
you look at Carrie Anne Marshall who runs Warner Chapel, Jody who
runs Universal, I mean, these are all, you know, Kim, who runs Global Creative
for Concord. These are all very, very powerful women at the top of their game
and many other senior executives who aren't necessarily the CEOs or,
you know, like Kim, who are very, very involved in the creative aspect of music
publishing and how that kind of fosters creativity and

(05:29):
fosters a sense of collaboration. So that was a very interesting point as well.
Yeah, absolutely Ritch. And also one of the other areas that I thought was,
and this is an obvious one that we've talked about in the show quite a
bit, but she talks about today's industry expects artists and writers to
be more self sufficient. Hustling and a proactive approach are more
important than ever. And we can't stress this enough. We've talked about this on the

(05:50):
show several times about you have to get it to like a 40 or 50
or 60 before somebody's going to really take you seriously and
say, let's take a look at what's going on. Yes. And you know why that
is? It's because somebody's looking at you and saying, are you worth the time,
effort and energy? Exactly. You know, or are we, you know, it's not just
about your talent. Right. There's a lot of very talented people. Clive

(06:12):
Davis, you know, who I worked for for years, used to say, if all it
took was a spectacular voice, my God,
you know, every person who had a spectacular voice would be a star. He
said, it's maybe one of 15 qualities that you need. Yeah. And the element
you're talking about is more important than now than ever. And it's one of the
philosophies and driving forces behind the creation of MUBUTV . Yeah.

(06:33):
Is that very fact. And I don't fault the record companies for wanting that in
this day and age because it really shows them. Okay. These people are going to
go out there. I'm not going to want it more than them. If I'm going
to put $150 million dollars into this career from now, for the
next five, 10 years, you better damn well believe that they want to have that
sewn up as far as their investment of who they're putting, who they're signing up

(06:54):
with. So with that, insiders, sit back, relax and enjoy our featured
conversation from MUSEXPO 2025 with Kim Frankiewicz.
Kim, welcome. Thank you. Thanks for having me. Thank
you so much for doing the show. I want to start out with a question,
based on your experience and where you're at now, do you think we're in a
healthy period in the music business? Today I do. Very

(07:16):
much so. I really feel that since COVID
there's now some amazing, great real artists
coming through and yes, it's very, very exciting
times and it's coming through from all parts of the world.
Which is even more exciting. Very much so. That's amazing. Kim, thank
you so much for joining us on the show. You've noted that the evolving role

(07:39):
of publishers, particularly in collaboration with labels and managers.
What do you see as the key changes in the publishing industry in recent years?
One of the biggest changes is the
royalty income that writers and producers are now
getting from the streaming platforms, which is where most music is
sold these days or streamed. And you know, back in the day

(08:02):
a songwriter could get a song on an album, like get a track
on an album and make money from it. Now it has to be the
single, otherwise you're just not getting any money. And it's a real
problem and I don't know how we're going to fix it, but
we're working. Publishers are working on it. Interesting. So if it's not the
lead single, it's a real problem to monetize. Yeah, very

(08:24):
much so, yeah. Because music, you know, music is free. That's,
that's, that's a very, very big problem today. Can you talk about
what you specifically look for both creatively and
non creatively in a new unknown songwriter and
how has your criteria evolved over the last decade in that
particular area? It's very important

(08:47):
firstly for the songwriter producer to be
talented and prolific. It's. They have to have a good work
ethic. But most importantly, like with the
songwriter producer, publishers can take care of
them without a management team if they don't have one because not all
of them do. But as a publisher we can manage that. But if you're an

(09:08):
artist, it. We really need to make sure that you
have good management around you because managers just do everything
nowadays and it's so important as an artist to have a strong management
team. So that's one of the considerations you guys take when you're looking into
working with. Yes, very much so. Yeah. We really were
interviewing the managers as much as we, you know, interviewing

(09:31):
the new potential signing because it's a big, big part of
it these days and. I can imagine you've probably passed on things because of
that hasn't been in place or maybe the people are not the right fit that
you think for the artist or. Yeah, if we, if I don't feel that
we're on the same track and have the same vision and
that the Management team, you know, you have to make sure

(09:52):
that they can deliver. We, yeah,
that is a big consideration for us these days. Yes,
absolutely. Kim, how have expectations for new songwriters,
artists and producers evolved? Do they need to be more self
sufficient and proactive in creating opportunities before attracting the attention
of publishers? Yes. Yeah, yeah. It's very rare for

(10:14):
somebody to just, you know, back in the day people would
mail demos to the music companies like getting our
attention. Now, unless you're out there, being proactive
is tough. It's hard for them, definitely.
Yeah, that's, that's one of the things in terms of, of you know, the
criteria is, you know, having a visibility, you

(10:35):
know, having some kind of track record where it's not just, wow, I found
a talented writer where it's faith based. Because I know, I mean, I come from
that same world where it's faith based. You believe, based on your skills,
you have faith that that artist can break, but you also have faith that there's
a market for them out there. Yes. And what you just said about, you know,
having the track record or somewhat of an opportunity thing before,

(10:57):
that's really important today. And also, you know, there's, there's, there's
communities in every city. You have to get yourself in
those communities because we often
hear about a songwriter or producer through our songwriters and
producers and they'll be like, hey, you should check out this guy or girl. Like
they're really good. I was in the studio with them. So you really have to

(11:18):
get yourself out and into those communities.
We've discussed this before, but I think it's worth re examining
with you. You lead as the head of global creative
at Concord Music and worldwide A and r team of 28
people making signing decisions that differ significantly between
artists and songwriters when considering an artist or a

(11:40):
band before they have a record deal. Unlike a songwriter or producer
who can contribute to multiple projects, what key factors beyond
pure belief and good management need to be in place for you to move
forward with this? We need to make sure that the
artist or the writer, producer is committed to their craft.
That's the number one important thing. Because it's hard

(12:02):
out there, it's tough and you've got to be willing to
put in the work, the effort and
you know, work 150% every, every day, just
pretty much, or have the weekends off. But it's your work ethic
is a big, big, big part of it because you, if you just, you
know, churning in one song every two months, that's not going to

(12:25):
work for us. Yeah, very much so. I mean, I, you know, Eric and I
always relate to the story that Andy Gould. I don't know. Do you know Andy?
Yes, I do. Yeah. He told that very famous story. He said there's nothing more
depressing or sad in. In. In your life as a professional when you
wake up and realize that the talent and the artist
that you have believed in for so long that you

(12:46):
want it more than they do. Yes, it's
heartbreaking. I mean, he was serious. It's heartbreaking because you realize
you can't fulfill on that. No, you can't do those shows, you can't write those
songs. And what you just said reminded me of that. That's a very important
quality that often doesn't get spoken of. We assume that talented people, of
course, they're driven. Yes. And it's not always the case, so. No,

(13:08):
no. It's interesting you say that as global head of creative, you look for that.
Yes, very much so. Kim, how important is a songwriter,
producer, or artist team to you in Concord when you're considering
getting into business with them? The team, as in their management
team? Everything. Yeah, just everything in general. Yeah, we kind of touched on that a
little bit. But no, it's very, very important because, you know,

(13:30):
in these times to get noticed, it's so
hard. And, you know, back in the day, you'd take the song to
radio, you'd get on mtv, you know, you'd tour,
you'd get some great press. And. And if it was, you know, if you got
traction, you're off now. I don't even. Half the time it's like, where do you
even start? That's what I'm saying. So it must be, like, really hard for you

(13:52):
guys, too, as far as, like, trying to, you know, we talk about
attention. Yes. And how hard that is to get. And you're talking about
that. People have to be hustling now. They really got to be hustling. Yes.
A lot. And. Yeah. And be. And they have to be professional, you know, like,
I feel sorry for a lot of artists where all of a sudden they've got
to be, you know, making TikTok videos, whatever. And it's like

(14:13):
social media. Yeah, it's a lot. It's a lot. And they have to become
professionals at just doing that. Right. Let alone, you know, making the
music. Hey, insiders, we hope that you've been enjoying our featured
conversation. Stay tuned because we've got so much value coming your way.
But before we dive back in, a word from our sponsor. Hey, Eric,
as an artist, what do you find are the most challenging aspects of to

(14:36):
a music career, especially when you're starting out? Well, I think one of the first
things is just trying to get the direction of who you are as an artist,
where you want to go, where you want to be. And you know, we've talked
about it on the show a lot. Who is your target audience, who you are,
who, what do you stand for? What do you believe in? What do you think
would resonate with an audience? And so those are some of the things that I
would feel being a new artist. Obviously what I know now is different because I

(14:59):
know these things, but for people that are out there, like our audience, that don't
necessarily any direction to go would be the first things that I would start off
with. And having the songs incorporate those
elements that you're speaking of into it, that's so important today.
Yeah. And I think that's one of the reasons why we started MUBUTV and why
we started this new consulting service that we're offering to all of our

(15:20):
insiders out there. Because that is another one of the big things. I mean, that
is the big thing is like having the great songs. That's what it really starts
off. Our friend Don Grierson always said it always starts with a great song.
So that's probably, besides putting together what your audience and what
your target audiences is the single most important thing. Where are your songs
at currently, today? Are you collaborating with people? Are you

(15:42):
trying to go out to networking events where you can connect with other songwriters and
stuff like that? So, yeah. And what are your strengths exactly? You
know, are you a strong lyric writer? Are you a strong melody writer?
Are you a strong musician? A player. Right. You know, and it's really
important to get really strong clarity on those issues
before proceeding. I totally agree, Ritch. And you know, with our

(16:03):
consulting services, we offer a myriad of different packages that we've made
it super affordable for everybody. So, you know, if you guys are interested out there
and connecting with us on a coaching call, you can visit
book.moobootv.com and start off with a free
15 minute discovery call. Well, yeah, absolutely. That. We start with an
initial 15 minute call where we can get a sense of who you are. What

(16:25):
are the issues that you specifically have and want to work on.
Exactly. And we can go from there. Absolutely. Yeah. And we tailor everything
to your needs. It's not like a cookie cutter thing. We kind of really want
to get to know who you are as an artist, where you at Today, what's
the snapshot of you as an artist today? And then start trying to
craft something that's tailor made for you. So again, if you're interested, Visit

(16:46):
us@book.mubotv.com for your 15 minute
discovery call. Hi, this is Dave Wallace, A&R from the Mushroom Group and Futures
Music Group. Are you an insider? I am. Subscribe now.
Yeah, Bringing attention to themselves. I mean, and it's, it's, it's, it goes back to
the earlier point you made about, you know, they need to be motivated, they need
to be getting cuts, they need to be making building relationships and getting

(17:09):
into those rooms. Even prior to getting onto your radar at
Concord. Yes, that's a very, very important part of it. Yes. You
know, no, absolutely. I want to talk about another aspect. You know,
looking back on your early career, you have spoken about the
lack of female representation in the industry. And yet in a recent interview with
Michael Parisi, you noted that, quote, female

(17:31):
representation in publishing, particularly on the creative
side, is far stronger than at label. My question to you, Kim, is why
do you think that publishing has progressed further in this regard and what steps
do you believe are still necessary to achieve greater gender parity across
the industry? I think I always say, you
know, publishing is the nice game. It's,

(17:53):
you know, it can be quite cutthroat at labels because
everybody wants to sign the next big thing and, you know, they compete
with each other, whereas publishing at, it's the long game, not the
short game. And I, yeah, I don't know why
females have, like, lean towards publishing, thrive. Through that part of
the industry. But one of my old bosses, a

(18:16):
wonderful gentleman called Chris Murphy, who managed in excess, who I worked with, and
he was the one that got me into music publishing and he wanted to set
up an independent publishing company in Australia and he wanted me to go
run it and I'm like, no way. Boring. I'm staying human. And he said to
me, very wise words. He's like, kim, when you're in your 50s, do
you still want to be out on the road, touring and, you know, having to

(18:37):
be on call 24 hours a day, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, no. And
he went, well, go and learn publishing because you can grow old gracefully
that business. And he was absolutely right. And one of the best decisions
I ever made in my life. Yeah. And that's been a big mandate of ours
here at Moovutv because we're always trying to get more female
representation on the show and we find that that is Very

(18:58):
true. What you're saying that they're thriving more in publishing, but not in the other
areas. And we're trying to get more of those people on the show. And it
was interesting. We held, because it was International Women's Day
last Saturday we held in London an all
female writer producer camp. And it was just
so lovely. Like on the last day of the camp,

(19:20):
we had a dinner with all of the girls that participated.
And the love in that room was just so
heartwarming because they're all like, Kim. Just the dynamic by
just being in studio with just females was huge.
And you know, one thing I was saying, the one thing we're still lacking
is female producers, which bothers me and

(19:42):
I can't pinpoint why that is. But there's still
a shortage of great female producers. Yeah,
it's. I mean, you have plenty of. Of great female songwriters.
Yes. A lot of them. Yeah. You know, out there and. Nor
in. In all genres. Yes. And you just wonder, I
mean, is that. Yeah. Like what, what is that about? Is that an artist issue?

(20:04):
Is that an ANR issue? I think it takes a special person too, that has
a love for that. With tinkering and, you know, getting
sounds. It takes a unique talent. There's a few of them out there. But I
agree there's not enough. And I don't know what the correlation of that is
either. You have to like land, you know, fall in love with that from when
you're born and want to fool with sounds and tinkering and try to,

(20:26):
you know, at least with the producers that we've talked about, it's always, that we've
had on the show have always been something I was tinkering on my, you know,
my dad's radio and wondering how this sound came together. So I think a
lot of it is that. And I'm wondering, you know, what would create
more of that. Well, I also wonder whether it's been.
And this is changing the environment because, you know, the

(20:48):
producer pretty much lives in a studio. Yes. Right. And it's a
very male dominated studio usually. But
that is. There is a change coming there. And also, you know, producers can
start out at home in their bedrooms now. Exactly. So I just
wonder whether we'll start seeing more come through now. I'm
keeping an eye and we're all looking out for them because I want to support

(21:09):
them. Absolutely. Yeah. Kim, as someone
who's been on the front lines of this business for a long time,
what do you feel holds artists back from success in their
careers? There's a lot of, there's a
lot of reasons. I mean, I know one just from working
with, when I was running a label and working with artists, a lot

(21:31):
of them didn't want the success. Like, they didn't want to, they didn't want to
go commercial. Like you'd hear a song and you're like, oh my God, I can
hear that on radio. And they're like, yeah, but I don't want to release it.
And I'm like, what? Wow. Yes. That's more common than people
realize. I'm so glad you said that because that is far more common than people
realize. Very much so. And like, I, I won't name

(21:52):
names, but there was a big us who just had a
massive hit and they didn't put the single on the album.
It's just like, well, that's not smart. So there's that.
There's also, you know, the work ethic, which is a big part of it. You
know, you want to be a great artist, you've got to be out there touring
and, you know, doing all the social media and promoting yourself.

(22:14):
And that's a lot like, that can be like 24 hours a day if you're
not careful. Yeah. Making sure you're doing all of that. But I think they're probably
two of the key. Key. There are other things, but they're. Of the key
things that I see. The early years of an artist or a songwriter's
career can be the most challenging, often requiring them to navigate a
three to five year period before becoming financially sustainable. What do

(22:37):
you see as the biggest obstacles during this phase and
what concrete steps should they and the industry be taking
to better support and guide emerging talent toward long term
success in this area? And I know it's something that you've spoken about
before this particular issue. Yeah, I mean, it's heartbreaking
when you're working with a creative, talented person who

(22:59):
has to go and work in a coffee shop to support
themselves and not be able to dedicate, you know,
150% of their time on their craft. You know,
doing a publishing deal is good for that. To help alleviate
that financial pressure. If you get a decent enough deal
and we look at how we structure our deals so that, you know, they,

(23:20):
they do have a steady income for at least three years. Like we
try to structure it that way so it's not all, you know, spent up front.
And you know, I always, I also think that the industry should be
supporting managers more because they also are
starving if they don't have A big roster and. Right.
You know, and, yeah, if there was some finance, more financial

(23:42):
help for managers, I think is very important. And how do you think something like
that would come about? Is that some of. You know, because one of the things
that we've talked about is countries like Australia, you guys have
consortiums that are in the government that help fund and help
us. We don't have that here in the States. And the UK has that as
well. And the UK has that as well. And so how do you see that

(24:03):
kind of working, like what you're talking about, helping to fund managers?
How would you see something like that structured? Well, I think it would
probably have to come from the industry is
my guess, because. Yeah, trying to get through to your government would be a nightmare.
Yeah, yeah. Yes. But, you know,
if. If the industry as a whole could come together and

(24:26):
just put each year you know, a chunk of money
aside that, you know, the management consortium, the
mmfs, can run for them and. Yeah, okay.
Because that. That all then helps the artists because the managers
are out there, you know, drumming up business for them. Right. So
that helps keep the artists. Yeah, Keeps the manager afloat, too. Keeps the food

(24:48):
chain going. Right. That's a great. That's a great idea. Great idea.
You know, I wanted to ask you, throughout your life, have there been any books
or films or documentaries, anything that have really inspired
you, professionally speaking, that you can share with our audience?
I've read over the years a lot of biographies,
like David. David Geffens and Walter Yetnikov's Howling at the

(25:09):
Moon. Howling at the Moon, that was a great book. David Ritz. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And there was one called Hit and Run, wasn't there years ago?
Yes. Yeah. So I. I used to be obsessed with
reading autobiographies, and I think everybody should. Every
person in the industry should read some of those greats, you know, because
we're just not breeding wonderful people like that anymore. Right.

(25:30):
Real characters. Yeah. Great documentary that if you get
a chance to see. It's called the House that Ahmet Built. Oh, I'd
love to see. It's all. It's a one. It's 2 hours and 11 minutes. It's
all about Atlantic Records and from the very beginning to
right up until the time he died. And they. They point out very poignantly
that, you know, he died through a fall backstage at

(25:53):
a Rolling Stones concert. And they were saying, like, if Ahmed
designed it himself, he couldn't have a better way to
go than doing what he truly loved with people he truly loved. Now
Exactly. You know, he slipped and fell backstage, and he never regained
consciousness. Yeah. And, you know, it was in 2006 or 7, but the
documentary ends there. But if you're a student of the business, which I know you

(26:15):
are, you would love that. It's called the House that Ahmed Built. You can find
it on dvd. It's great documentary. If you love those. I will
definitely find that because I lived in New York in the late 90s, and
Armit was out as many nights as I was out, and
it's more dingy gigs, and it was amazing. Yeah.
Kim, what advice do you have for those who are committed to building a

(26:36):
career as a songwriter, producer, or artist today? Just
to not lose faith
in your talent and not
be distracted by. Just stick to what you feel
comfortable with and don't give up and just
work, work, work, work, work. So stay focused, stay committed. Yes,

(26:58):
very much so. Wonderful. Yeah. Kim, we want to thank you so much for coming
by and doing this. This has really been a pleasure, and seeing you and
doing the panel with you was a real, real joy. Yeah, no, it was lovely.
Thank you. I appreciate it very much. Thank you. We both do.
Such great insight. Yeah, man. I am so glad that we had had
this conversation with Kim. Me too. You know that there's. There's so

(27:21):
much wisdom there. So much wisdom. And, you know,
again, she. You know, some of the things that she talked about, I mean,
you know, throughout the conversation, I love the thing when she was speaking
to artists and to songwriters that, you know, that there's a whole community
out there in every city, and that you have to get yourself into those
communities, because often this is how the publishing community

(27:44):
hears about you. They hear about you through other writers. They hear about
you through other producers. They hear about you about you through people in the community
that they're dealing, doing business with every single day. And this is important.
In other words, this is not a business that exists in. In a vacuum or
in your bedroom. And if you're not in a city necessarily where, you know,
there's a lot of other writers, get online, get on with the,

(28:06):
you know, the. The. The songwriting communities that are out there, you know,
build those relationships. You know, this is all possible to do today
with technology. Much more so than it ever was five, ten years ago.
Definitely. Yeah, absolutely. And one of the other areas that I.
That we've talked about a lot on this show is about work ethic. And, you
know, she talks about, and I quote, it's very important, firstly for

(28:28):
the songwriter, producer to be talented and prolific.
They have to have a great work ethic. But most importantly, like with the
songwriter producer, publishers can take care of themselves without a management team
if they don't have one, because not all of them do. But as a publisher,
we can manage that. But if you're an artist, you know, we really need to
make sure that you have a good management team around you because managers just do

(28:50):
everything nowadays. And it's so important as an artist to have a strong
management team. And, you know, we've talked about that so much, you and I, Ritch,
on the show, and just in private about how important it is to have that
team assembled when the time is right and when those pieces start, you
know, appearing and you start putting the pieces together. Absolutely. And
I think again, this is part of that same philosophy that she was talking about,

(29:11):
that this is a career, this is, you know, this is a life. This is
something that you have to be committed to and there are more elements to it
than just your talent. So, you know, get involved, get committed if this
is to be your life. And that's really always the decision, isn't it? You know,
as Ari Herstand said, you know, the first thing you have to do is you
have to define what success is for you. And if this is to be your
career, if this is to be your life, then there are certain things

(29:34):
and there it's more doable today than it ever has been in the
past. Hey insiders, thanks so much for tuning into this episode.
We really appreciate it. To get show notes, links and everything that
was mentioned during this interview. Head on over to our Official
website agt
mubutv.com/podcast/shownotes if you're
enjoying the content and what we're doing here on the show, please subscribe to the

(29:57):
podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you
listen to podcasts from. And don't forget to rate and review our show at
iTunes. Five star reviews are always welcome and help to ensure
that our podcast stands out on the top rated and new and
noteworthy charts on itunes and our space. You can also find us
at social media, at Facebook, Instagram, TikTok and

(30:18):
Twitter X, all ending with the handle mubutv, which is spelled
m u b u t v. Don't forget to catch our flagship show, the
MUBUTV Music Business Insider Video Series airing
every week on YouTube at
YouTube.com/mubutv. This show
was produced and created by Ritch Esra and Eric Knight theme music

(30:39):
by Disciples of Babylon. And be sure to tune in next week for another
episode of the MUBUTV Music Business Insider
Podcast.

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