How to Get Your Music Placed in Film & TV: Advice from a Top Music Supervisor
Unlock the world of music supervision with Grammy and Emmy-winning music supervisor Steven Gizicki! In this episode, Steven shares the biggest shifts in sync licensing, the realities of a career as a music supervisor, and how global streaming is reshaping opportunities for artists worldwide. Dive deep into practical tips for getting your music placed, standing out in email pitches, and thriving as an independent artist in today’s fast-changing industry. Essential listening for anyone passionate about sync, music supervision, and the future of the music business! 🎬🎵 #MusicSupervision #SyncLicensing #MusicBusiness
Our mission here at MUBUTV is to help independent artists and music business professionals of the future to educate, empower and engage their music career.
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The Music Business Insider Podcast is a deep dive for listeners like you who want to educate, empower & engage their music career. We take you inside behind the scenes through a series of in-depth conversations with today’s leading experts in the Music Industry including A&R, Music Supervision, Artist Management, Marketing, Publicity, Touring, and much much more. You can find it by searching “Music Business Insider Podcast” on any podcast app or platform [ie: Apple Podcasts, Spotify, etc.].
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⚡️What you'll learn in this episode⚡️
👉 Keys indie artists need for placements
👉 Pitching secrets music supervisors want you to know
👉 How streaming is changing soundtracks & placements
👉 and so much more...
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Podcast Credits
Produced by: Ritch Esra & Eric Knight
Editor: Eric Knight
Shownotes & Transcriptions: Rick Staffy
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On the MUBUTV Music Business Insider Podcast, Stephen Gizicki, a top music supervisor, shares his insights on the biggest shifts in music supervision and the explosion of sync placement opportunities for independent artists. He also
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
On today's podcast, we sit down with acclaimed music supervisor Steven
Gizicki, known for his work on iconic projects like La La Land
and Bob Dylan's biopic A Complete Unknown, Stephen opens up
about the biggest shifts in music supervision and sync over the past decade,
the hidden truths and misconceptions about the music supervisor's role
and what it really takes to break into this competitive field. We also dive
(00:22):
into how global streaming is changing the soundtrack of film and
tv, the explosion of opportunities for independent artists, and the
keys to getting your music placed. If you want RA insights
straight from one of the industry's top music supervisors, this episode
is a must listen. Insiders, are you ready?
Welcome to MUBUTV's Music Business Insider Podcast, where
(00:45):
our mission is to educate, empower and engage artists and
music business professionals who are dedicated to having a successful career
in the new music industry. Here are your hosts, Ritch
Esra and Eric Knight. Welcome back, insiders, to another
episode of the MUBUTV Music Business Insider
Podcast. Our mission is to educate, empower and
(01:06):
engage your music career. On today's episode, we're thrilled to
welcome Steven Gizicki, acclaimed music supervisor behind films
like La La Land and the Bob Dylan biopic A Complete
Unknown. In this raw and insightful interview, Stephen pulls
back the curtain on the world of music supervision. We dive into the
biggest changes in sync and supervision over the last decade, the
(01:28):
constantly evolving role of music supervisors and how budgets,
technology, and the sheer amount of content have impacted the the
job. Steven shares how he approaches selecting music that
stands out, talks about the global nature of the industry as streaming
expands audiences, and reveals the importance of networking,
resilience and collaboration in breaking into this
(01:50):
competitive field. You'll learn how indie artists can get noticed for placements,
why research makes all the difference, and what it takes to keep a
musical train running on set. Plus, don't miss
Steve's practical advice for aspiring music supervisors, his
favorite book recommendations, and the surprise story of how a new
generation is discovering Bob Dylan. All thanks to the power
(02:12):
of Music in Film. You don't want to miss this fascinating
conversation with one of the top music supervisors in the business, but
first, a word from our sponsor. Hey insiders, Are you an
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(02:34):
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(03:18):
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(03:40):
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(04:01):
hi, this is Mike Jones. Manager of Creative Sync at Extreme
Music, and you're listening to the MUBUTV Music Business
Insider Podcast. Today's featured guest is music
supervisor Steven Gizicki. This was a very, very
interesting conversation, Eric, with someone who, you know, I've
had a lot of respect for his work for many, many years. He is truly
(04:23):
one of the leading music supervisors in the business. He's a Grammy award
winning supervisor, Emmy award winner. Yeah. I mean, his work on
La La Land, which was, you know, an original
musical, one of the very few original musicals to come along in the
industry in like 25, 30 years. He spoke about a lot of very
interesting things and one of the things that really stood out to me, and
(04:45):
we've discussed this before with other supervisors, is the
globalization of music supervision and
choices in the world today. And this,
insiders, I think is something that you guys need to really pay attention to. It's
the whole aspect that the world is getting smaller and
smaller and smaller. It's not just about, you know, American TV
(05:06):
shows. We're now living in a global, global village as far
as entertainment, as far as, you know, the kinds of things that you're seeing on
Netflix, on Hulu, on all of these channels, coming from international
territories and the whole globalization's impact, you know, while
global streaming hasn't drastically changed the creative choices. It does
influence music licensing logistics, especially when you're shooting in different
(05:28):
countries. And this, I thought was a very interesting kind of
phenomena in that, you know, we tend to think of music only the music that
we know. Right. And, you know, and vice versa.
You know, I think that for our listeners and our insiders,
start thinking in terms of other countries, it's not that the music has
to be exclusively in that language. It's not like, you know, in Germany
(05:50):
they only listen to German language songs. That's not true. Or
in France, there may be more of that, but there's also opportunities
beyond your own borders. And that's the point that I thought
was the most interesting. Yeah, one of the other areas that I thought and, you
know, when we're trying to pick out what we're going to speak to you about,
we really want to deliver value for you guys. And one of the really great
(06:11):
things that I thought was that he said was clarity and email pitches when
pitching music. Clear and descriptive subject lines, I.
E. 1960s folk. One stop. Help supervisors
quickly identify relevant submissions. You know, talked about this again ad
nauseam throughout the show. But it's important that when you're
getting access to any briefs or any inside information in
(06:33):
terms of what the music supervisor is looking for, it's really important
to think within my catalog. Do I really have something, or am I just going
to send them something? Again, this is the whole idea. You have one chance to
impress people or, you know, to make an impression. If you're pitching for something
and your music is heavy metal and it's for a folk, you know,
biopic, you're going to be really shit out of luck. And so the whole
(06:54):
idea is to really listen to what the brief is saying and to really deliver
on that, even if it doesn't get picked. It doesn't mean that your music was
bad, but at least you were in the wheelhouse. And they're going to take much
more respect in somebody that's sending them something that's of value
and that really meets close to the criteria than sending something that's completely out of,
you know, left field. Absolutely. And again, this goes back to something we've
(07:15):
talked about before. The world of music supervision is not about a
supervisor finding five minutes to listen to your music, to find a place
for it in their world. It's for you to serve the needs of that
TV show or to contribute something to that movie or whatever.
Not just, you know, I do heavy metal here. Listen to this. Find a place
for it. So it's. It's a very apt point you're making. And with that,
(07:36):
insiders sit back, relax, and enjoy our Featured conversation
from Musexpo 2025 with Steven Gizicki.
Steve, welcome to the show. Thank you so much. Good to be here. Good to
have you. You know, as a leading music supervisor, do you feel that music
is being used more today to help tell stories in film and
TV than in the past? I don't know. That's being used more. There's just more
(07:58):
stuff, right? There's more. I hate to use the word content, but I'm going to
use it. There's more things for our eyeballs to digest, which means that there needs
to be things for our ears to digest at the same time. And music
plays a pivotal role in what we watch, right?
And it helps us tell a story
and something. Frankly, sometimes it's used as a crutch, right? Like if
(08:20):
maybe something isn't working, you can just have a popular song in there and kind
of guide something through. But because there's so much out there for. Everyone wants to
stand out. So everyone tries to make their different. Their music stand out and
their music different and the music pop. So maybe that's what you're seeing.
Steve, thanks so much for joining us on the show. I wanted to ask you
what have been the most significant shifts in the world of music
(08:40):
supervision and sync over the last 10 years? Oh,
boy. In supervision. What's interesting is there I'm seeing
a lot of music supervision jobs go in house right now, which is not necessarily,
I think, forward momentum. But I'm saying that happen because
we're seeing the industry contract and we're seeing budgets go down. We're seeing music
budgets go down as VFX budgets go up. And as cost
(09:03):
cutting measures, I sometimes see supervisors just aren't getting the gigs
that we normally would because things are growing in house sync. I see
prices going up, which is, you know, sort of
runs counter to what I just said about our budget's going down. So I'm finding,
like in the old days, and I'd be working on an indie film and I
could plead indie poverty, right, and get things for a really good
(09:24):
fee. But that doesn't happen so much anymore because people assume, like, if it's a
film without distribution, well, you know, it's gonna land on a Netflix or on
Amazon anyway. So we're not gonna treat this as a different price point than
we would for a major studio release. So that's sort of an interesting Thing that
I've encountered over the past few years is being on these indie films and
not paying any prices anymore. Very interesting. Wow.
(09:45):
Okay. What are the most common misconceptions about the role
of a music supervisor? I think the most common misconception
that I deal with on a day to day is that our job is exclusively
to pick songs. And there you go. Right. But really,
our job encompasses, you know, we. We supervise all the music. Right. We
oversee the composer. We work with music editors. I live half
(10:07):
of my life on set, like overseeing actors and musicians and
casting musicians and working with actors and getting them into vocal training and
finding the right guitar coach for somebody. Right. So our job is
wider than just picking a song for a placement. I mean,
it is a cornerstone of the job, but it really continued. The job
continues to grow to be something larger than that. Yeah. And some of the projects
(10:30):
you've worked on are, you know, had on set music.
You know, I think of the Damien Chazelle and project that you
did, which was massive. That was a lot of on camera stuff right then and
there, wasn't it? Yeah. I somehow found myself in a career where I don't
get easy jobs anymore. Yeah. Every mountain just gets bigger and
bigger year after year. And, you know, the interesting thing with
(10:53):
La La Land is up until that point, I had never done it on
camera. Okay. I just got thrown into the deep end because I was in
animation and I was working at Lucasfilm for a bit, and I just.
That's a very deep end because it was an original musical. And I just. Day
one, I thought, oh, God, when they were gonna find out I'm the emperor with
no clothes. And, you know, it's like with everything in this world, you just
(11:14):
sort of. You dive into the deep end and you figure it out. And honest,
I find those jobs to be so gratifying. You know, just coming off of a
complete unknown. The Dylan movie, which, you know, we shot
music every single day. Most of these music films, we do have a couple days
off here and there to recuperate, but on this project, every single day
on set. And it was just. It was so much work, but really gratifying. I'm
(11:36):
just so filled with how it turned out, by the way. And he did a
lot of the vocals live, I understand. Yes. That that was the
unusual. He recorded it all previously, but they didn't end up using
that. Yeah. That. We were in the studio with him
and all the actors for a year. Yeah. Until we shot. And then
on day one, we did the usual Thing which is we start playback and we're
(11:57):
gonna put click in his ear and all the. And. And Timmy's like, yeah,
this doesn't really work for me, so let's go live. So. And that was it.
We just never went back. We had a moment of, oh, okay. But what
we realized that the year of pre recording was
essentially like a year of rehearsals in boot camp, you know, so he was really
prepared by the time we got there. That's what he has said. He was very,
(12:19):
very. It was like 40 songs that I think was like, what, 30 in the
movie or something. But, yeah, but he. He knew 40. Yeah. And it's. It's. And
yeah, because he would just sometimes break into another song just to carry on. Like,
there was a Carnegie hall sequence where you see he's playing Hard Rain's Gonna Fall,
but we had a full audience there and he wanted it to feel like more
of a show. So he added a few extra songs and he just kept going.
But, you know, going back to the. Going live, like, what's interesting about is what
(12:42):
I think viewers don't really realize is there's. When you're
performing to pre record, there are technical things that you also have to keep in
your mind, right. There's a click that will tell you, oh, here's where the guitar
is going to come in. Here's where the harmonic is going to come in. Here's
where your vocal are going to come in. And you have to be thinking of
all these things. It's like choreography, right? Like, 1, 2, 3, 1, 2. And
that. That's just a really cerebral, mentally taxing
(13:04):
thing for an actor. And he just, like, you know, I'm just going to play
the song because I don't want to play the songs. I. I know when the
harmonica comes in, I know when my guitar comes in, I'm just going to play
the thing. And that naturalism
is what really sold it, I think. Yeah. You guys did a great job.
Yeah, congratulations. Yeah, absolutely. Really amazing job. Very much
so. My job was just to keep the train running, so. Yeah. And came out
(13:25):
beautiful. Yeah. Steve, when selecting music for a
project, beyond the creative needs, are there any other factors that
are informing your musical choices for a project? Yeah, I try
to find songs that maybe
haven't been in a film, especially recently. I. And I
mean, sometimes the most obvious choice is the right choice. But I always, like, I
(13:46):
find something like, oh, let me just dig deeper and see what else there
might be. And also, I like, I have a lot of friends in this business
that work at labels and publishers and music libraries, whatever, and I want
to help friends out. And so I, you know, kind of. I cast a wide
net and try to see what. What all is out there. Because
I specialize in musicals and biopics and period stuff.
(14:06):
My, like, the pool that I dip into is a bit more limiting than most
people. Right. But I love research. Like, when I get one of
these gigs, one of my first things to do is just to devour every possible
thing. Like, I read a bunch of Bob Dylan books and
listened to just mountains and mountains of material, and just that research opens
up this whole world of things that maybe I didn't know. Like in Bob's book
(14:27):
chronicles, Ike's, maybe Bob will say, oh, I'm in my
house and I'm listening to this lead Belly record, like, oh, note. So, you know,
the research also kind of like, I'm like a sponge, and it just kind of
just find things everywhere, if that makes sense. That's amazing. Steve, has
the global nature of film and especially television
streaming influenced your work as a music supervisor with regards to
(14:50):
your choices of music in terms of catering to a more
diverse and wider cultural audiences? Today,
I think me, personally, less so. Like, I think if I was working
on a show like Euphoria or something that was really trying
to, you know, to sort of trigger something in
culture and feel very. Now I'd be more influenced by something like
(15:12):
that. Right. But if I'm making something very specific, like a movie about Bob
Dylan or a movie about Leonard Bernstein. Right. Then it doesn't influence
me so much. It does, I think, where I make the film. Like,
if I'm like, I just shot a film in Canada, so therefore all of my
music needed, the licenses needed to originate from Canada. So that's a process
thing. But in terms of targeting my music to an audience,
(15:34):
like, the whole. I think I just kind of. I recognize that my
little corner of music is not the be all, end all of the film. I'm
part of the whole. So I sort of figure out what the film itself is
targeting. And I kind of align with that. With that. No, I
mean, you answered the question in an interesting way because you talked about, like, something
like Euphoria, where perhaps in an era, another era,
(15:55):
they may have had this as far as their parameter. And now, given that their
audience is much wider, they may have this as their parameter of
what they can put into the film, whereas they wouldn't have made those choices
years ago creatively. Yeah. And I, like, Jen does a Brilliant job on that show.
Right. And I felt like it's also. It's very different from what I do. Like,
I would probably. If I get that job, I probably just cry in a corner
like I wouldn't always do. But it's. It's. You
(16:19):
know, they're like, that's what's so great about this career is that every job is
different, every film is different, every project is different, and everybody has different needs, and
we're all friends and we all collaborate and we'll all put our heads together and
I'll be like, oh, Jen, can you help me with this? Or what's your. How
would you do this? And that collaboration is, I think, something that maybe we don't
talk about a lot, but we do all network and know each other and reach
out for advice and for support. Hey, insiders, we hope that you've been
(16:41):
enjoying our featured conversation. Stay tuned because we've got so much
value coming your way. But before we dive back in, a word from our
sponsor. Hey, Eric, as an artist, what do you find are the most challenging
aspects to. To a music career, especially when you're starting out?
Well, I think one of the first things is just trying to get the direction
of who you are as an artist, where you want to go, where you want
(17:02):
to be. And, you know, we've talked about it on the show a lot. Who
is your target audience? Who you are, who. What do you stand for? What
do you believe in? What do you think would resonate with an audience? And so
those are some of the things that I would feel being a new artist. Obviously,
what I know now is different because I know these things. But for people that
are out there, like our audience, that don't necessarily. Any direction to
(17:23):
go would be the first things that I would start off with. And having the
songs incorporate those elements that you're speaking of
into it, that's so important today. Yeah. And I think that's one of the reasons
why we started MUBUTV and why we started this new consulting service that we're
offering to all of our insiders out there. Because that is another one of the
big things. I mean, that is the big thing is like, having the great songs.
(17:44):
That's what it really starts off. Our friend Don Grierson always said it always
starts with a great song. So that's probably. Besides putting together
what your audience and what your target audiences is the single most
important thing. Where are your songs at currently, today? Are you
collaborating with people? Are you trying to go out to networking Events where you
can connect with other songwriters and stuff like that. So yeah. And what are your
(18:05):
strengths exactly? You know, are you a strong lyric
writer? Are you a strong melody writer? Are you a strong musician?
A player. Right. You know, and it's really important to get really
strong clarity on those issues before proceeding. I totally
agree, Rich. And you know, with our consulting services, we offer a
myriad of different packages. We've made it super affordable for everybody. So,
(18:27):
you know, if you guys are interested out there and connecting with us on a
coaching call, you can visit book.mubutv.com
and start off with a free 15 minute discovery call. Well, yeah,
absolutely. That we start with an initial 15 minute call where we can
get a sense of who you are, what are the issues that you specifically
have and want to work on. Exactly. And we can go from
(18:49):
there. Absolutely. Yeah. And we tailor everything to your needs. It's not like a cookie
cutter thing. We kind of really want to get to know who you are as
an artist, where you at today? What's the snapshot of you as an
artist today and then start trying to craft something that's tailor made for
you. So again, if you're interested, Visit us at
book.mubutv.com for your 15 minute discovery
call. Hi, this is Emma Banks, music agent and co head of global
(19:12):
touring at caa. Are you an insider? I am.
Subscribe now. I always love this question, Steve. Can you think
of any examples where a sink placement you made had a significant
impact on an artist's career? Oh boy. I don't think Bob Dylan needed
my help. Aside from Bob Dylan, none of those.
Songs were known, right? Yeah, yeah, I.
(19:36):
Boy, that's hard to. I mean, again, I don't really function in the
breaking bands territory, but actually, but I can talk about like
Bob and Woody Guthrie for example. I just returned two weeks ago
from Bob Dylan Sanders and the Woody Guthrie center in Tulsa, Oklahoma. Right?
Yes. And when I got the job on the Dylan movie,
Timmy actually asked me like, oh, so what drew you to this movie? And I
(19:58):
said, oh, you know, I really want to expose Bob Dylan to a new generation
of fans. Right. And Timmy said, oh, that's exactly why I'm doing the
movie. And so I went to the Bob Dylan Woody Guthrie center and they were
so appreciative of what we have done because they are now seeing
new generations of Bob Dylan fans that are maybe fans of only
like four months. Wow. Flying in from overseas to go
(20:20):
to, to visit these museums and see these artifacts. And just so you Know,
I won't say that what, what I have done has significantly
changed their careers, but what it has is it's brought a new audience to Woody
Guthrie and to Bob Dylan, which is really exciting and gratifying. Yeah. Because that's
like a cultural impact goes way, way beyond the movie. Yeah,
yeah. I like. I brought one of my best friends, I brought his daughter
(20:43):
to the premiere. She's 14 years old. She's a big Timothy Chalamet
fan, which is why I brought her. Had never, never heard of Bob Dylan before.
Right. And she left the theater singing Bob Dylan songs, got a guitar for
Christmas. The first thing she learned on guitar was blowing on the wind. Has
listened to nothing but Bob Dylan since she saw the movie in December. Wonderful. I
feel, ah, my job is done. Yeah. No, that's good. Well, you know, in interviews,
(21:03):
Timmy has said he knew very little when he was offered the part.
Very little. He knew the name, but that was about it. I mean, he was
honest about it. And he spent, you know, several years, like four or five
years deep diving before he shot the movie. And we only
dealt with a four year period. Right. Yeah. And what people, I think, don't really.
Okay, I'm going down to Bob Dylan rabbit hole. Sorry, everybody. No, Okay. I think
(21:25):
people don't realize about Bob is. Bob is very similar to say, Stones and the
Beatles in that every era feels very different. Very. Yes. And I hope
that after watching the movie that people go and discover
latter periods of Bob because it's very different and very rewarding and you'll sort of.
It almost feels like a new artist kind of turning a page every time that
you go into a new decade. And I hope that people carry on.
(21:47):
Absolutely. I mean, when the film ends, you know, if, you know,
Dylan's work, It's like Highway 61 is coming. And you
know, these brilliant, masterful, you know, Blonde on Blonde
is going to be coming and you know, double albums that were just
masterful, you know, in. In his, as you say, the next
evolution of his artistry, which was, you know, a seminal period for
(22:08):
him. Yeah. And I would like to continue making a movie every 10 years, but
I don't know that. Yes, a complete unknown. The sequel will be getting
better known, you know. Exactly. Sort of known. Exactly.
I want to ask you today, are there more opportunities for independent
artists to get their music placed into film industry, television and other visual media
in your experience? Oh, yeah, absolutely. As I mentioned earlier, like, we
(22:32):
sort of, you know, I cast a wide net and there's also. There are More
labels than ever before. There's more publishers than ever before. There are more people out
there making music than ever before, which is daunting.
But it's really fun to discover something new, someone new.
And there's. Because there's so much being made, everyone wants
something different. That wasn't in the show that you saw last night on Hulu. Right.
(22:54):
So there is now. There are now so many more
opportunities. And also for. For new artists, maybe they can pitch
their material sort of at a lower price point and that, you know, like
if. If it's budget friendly, that also sometimes can help kind of get in the
door and then establish a footing in the sync world too.
Also, by the way, I've been doing this a long time
(23:16):
and going down the independent, homemade road.
The production quality just didn't fit sonically in a
project sometimes. Right. Because if we're dealing with atmos and whatever, like, something needs to
sound great. But now, clearly you can record the most spectacular thing in your
bathroom. Right, right, right. And that has just opened up a
whole new world for independent artists. Great. Sticking with that
(23:39):
thread. Steve, what. What are the best avenues that you recommend for artists
and songwriters to place music into? Film, television and other
visual media? I think, I mean, every supervisor will
have a different answer to that. Like, I don't use TikTok, so that's
probably. I think that's a very key, key avenue for people.
For me, it's to be.
(24:01):
I find independent artists, like, if they're kind of. If they're associated with maybe
somebody I know, like a. Like an end. Like a. Like a pitch person that
I happen to be. Be close with or something. Like there's. Because
otherwise there's so much noise out there. And, you know, I read everything and I
look at, you know, all the music websites every morning and read as much
as I can. But having. Having a representative pitch
(24:24):
is for me anyway, for what I do, really valuable
because it's sort of. I can say, oh, I need this, this and this. This
is the sort of the genre that I'm looking for. And that person filters and
sends me stuff, which is incredibly helpful. And that's how I find newer artists
more often. And then not. Because if you're going it alone
as an artist, it's sort of to cut through the noise, you sort of need
(24:44):
somebody speaking on your behalf. You know, the old damage. If you need somebody. Somebody
talking about you in the room that you're not in. Right. So I find a
representative, whether it's a label or a Publisher or a sync
agent helping is the best possible room.
Steve, throughout your life, are there any books,
films, or documentaries that have been particularly
(25:04):
inspirational to you that you could recommend? I
always recommend Passman's Everything you need to know about music, but afraid to ask. I
recommend that to every single person I meet. That because I was. That's just the
most informative book that I've ever read. Okay. About
the business. I love musician
autobiographies. Like, for me, like, Keith Richards book just was
(25:25):
really brilliant. And there's a Lou Reed book, King of New York that came out
last year that I just absolutely devoured. And I love
that. I sort of also, like, I'll read fiction book and then I'll read a
music biography. And I love. More. More than a
biography. Like, I love autobiographies. I like. I love reading, like, Keith
Richards book. Like, he'll, like, he just goes on tangents forever. Right, right.
(25:47):
And Bob's book chronicles that I mentioned earlier as well. Right. So
reading an artist's life in their own words and their own
idiosyncrasies and their own, you know, like, someone will say, I don't even. Actually, I
don't know if this is true. I barely remember this. But here's the story. Like
that, to me is that looking inside people's brains to
me is always inspiring. Yeah. And that's. Those are the
(26:09):
books that are piled up next to my. Next to my bed. What advice do
you have for those who are interested in pursuing a career in music
supervision? You know, that's an interesting question, because
the business is contracting a bit. As I
said earlier. It's. So there were. I think it's harder
to break into now, in a way, maybe even though there is more stuff being
(26:30):
made, there are. As I said, there are fewer jobs and there are
more people kind of fighting for the same jobs. But, you
know, smart, talented people with taste always break through. And
I think it's key to just,
you know, that's the old adage. You got to network and you got to meet
people and be. Be resilient because this business will,
(26:53):
you know, will tear anybody down. And I, you know, I often joke, like, I've
got. Been laid off more often than I've ever actually been hired
because it's just, it's. It's tough. And you just. And I think if you're
resilient and you just keep picking yourself up every time that you have a setback,
like, those are the people that make it, and that's how you survive Is you
just. And you also have to be open to, I think say yes more than
(27:14):
no when it comes to a job. Right. Like, oh, can you help with this?
Can you help with this? And some people say, isn't that really what I do?
I'm like, no, Just, I think, recognize that we are all in this together
and we all kind of. And we're sort of. We're all building something
together, and you have to be flexible. And I
got. I think my career is where it is because I was open to traveling.
(27:35):
Traveling to Singapore for crazy rich Asians because Gabe Hilford couldn't make
it, and he was a supervisor in the film. And I got a call like,
hey, can you go to Singapore tomorrow? Yeah, sure. Why not? I mean, that's. That's
hard for people to say, right? Yeah. But being flexible and open
to new to and available is. Is key because, you know,
they'll call somebody, they'll call the next person, like, oh, you know, and also, like,
have the skills, learn how to clear songs, learn how to work with music producers
(27:59):
and composers and learn how to book studios and learn how to book musicians. Like,
the more knowledge you have as well, in your bag of tricks
means that you are. There are more doors open to you in terms of what
jobs are out there. What is the best way for people to connect with you?
Is it through socials or through an agent or through your website? Or do
you have one? I'm building a website. Okay. Probably about a
(28:19):
decade later than I should have, but I'm finally. Finally getting to
it. So. Yeah, that'll be up shortly. My agent is great.
Socials, sometimes, I mean, I'm really terrible at reading my LinkedIn
messages, I must admit, and really terrible at looking at my Instagram. I think we
all are messing with. Yeah. Yeah. I just. There's. There's too many things to message
on now. Right. And I'm like, I can't. I mean,
(28:42):
Instagram is a great way. And. And my agent, it's. It's hard, too, because, you
know, people reach out to pitch stuff. Yeah. On a daily basis, some of whom
I know, some of whom I don't. And. And I think on behalf of all
music supervisors, I apologize to those that I haven't gotten back to because there's just
so many that I can't always respond. But what I
do promise is that everything that comes in, I absorb.
(29:04):
Like, somebody will say, oh, I'm 1950s surf guitar
rock. And I'm like, okay, that person has that. And I just sort of File
that away in my brain. And then if I need that sort of stuff, I
will find them. Right. So, by the way, if you're going to email, subject headings
are everything interesting. Because that's like, boom. Okay, I get.
I get. I know exactly what. So what subject headings do you. Are you attracted
(29:24):
to most? Free Puppies and margaritas. Free
puppies and Margaritas. And here's my song. Exactly. Yeah. No, I think
it's something very clear. Like. And people are really good about, like. Oh, you know,
like 1960s folk, one stop. Right. Like that kind of stuff. I mean, it's
very clear. Rather than saying hi, reaching out or high connecting
is, you know, that's, you know, I
(29:46):
will read that anyway, by the way, because I read everything. I promise everybody listening,
I read everything. But, but those sort of like. Like
a very clear subject heading pops. Makes it. Makes it much clearer.
Steve, we want to thank you so. Much for taking the time to do this.
We really appreciate it. Really. You are so welcome. Thank
you. So glad that we had a chance to talk with Stephen about
(30:07):
this. This was a really interesting conversation on many levels. One of the
things Eric, that he spoke about, which, you know, we haven't really heard
a lot about, but I thought was a very, very salient point to
our listeners, is he spoke about the world of music
supervision, contracting, and how a lot of that
work on a business sense is going in house.
(30:30):
Right. So it's creating less and less opportunities for independent
music supervisors and a lot of it going in house and finding that,
you know, sometimes the networks or the studios are
employing more people or doing more of that work themselves, when
normally they would just outsource it to a music supervisor
so they wouldn't be the ones having to do it. And how he's seeing from
(30:52):
his perspective, and he's at the top of his head. Yeah. Contract.
So that's an interesting observation. My feeling is that you're going to see
more and more of that as time progresses, especially over the next year
or two. I think we're just beginning that kind of contraction. We've spoken about
this on the show before where I think we're going to see, you know, this
enormous volume of production that we've seen over the last five, six,
(31:15):
seven years. Contract as well, I think, you know, it's even been announced. Netflix has
said, you know, they're not spending $8 billion a year on content.
Maybe. Maybe. Maybe six or five. Right. Which is still a significant.
But it's not what it was. And I think, you're seeing a lot of the
other networks have the same kind of consciousness. So that's going to affect it.
Yeah. And I think you and I have talked about this before, maybe on the
(31:36):
show or maybe in private, where I told you I feel like
there's a collapse coming with all of these streamers. There is so
much content on so many channels coming out that it cannot
sustain itself. And I think you're going to start seeing those players,
whoever they happen to be. You fill in the blanks that are going to go
by the way side. And you know, I, I, I watch the stock market quite
(31:58):
a bit and I, you know, Netflix has just had a renaissance. I mean their
stock is up to like eleven hundred dollars because of the moves that they have
made and the investments that they have made. And I think I told you this.
I think eventually you're going to start seeing these streamers start falling by the
wayside. They cannot sustain themselves because they don't have enough subscriber
base to continue to support that apparatus. So
(32:19):
I think you're going to start seeing those fall by the wayside and eventually you'll
see all of that content coming back into Netflix. And maybe that's why they're
ant as well too, cutting back on their original programming a little
bit is because you're going to start seeing that collapse of
that whole model. Absolutely. I think that the, to address your
point specifically, I think we're already, we saw the first of
(32:41):
its kind of deal where Apple, Right. Made a deal. And
I, for the life of me can't remember who the streaming service was
that they made the co deal with. Correct. But did that exact thing.
You know, like when you would get hbo, you would get, you know, the movies
from all the studios. Correct. Now everybody's in their own isolated chamber,
but Apple was the first to break that. And if you notice, Netflix has
(33:03):
that when you go to Netflix now, there's very few lice. I mean, you know,
the movie companies are still licensing to them, but they're trying to hold on to
that because that's all they've got. They're trying to hold on to their library of
titles to put in their Paramount plus, you know,
you, you again, you fill in the blank. There's 50 of those things out there
now, Peacock. Yeah, exactly, exactly. But one of the other areas
(33:25):
that I thought was really interesting that, that we spoke about was the opportunities for
independent artists in film and television. Sync and you know, I quote
absolutely. I cast a wide net and there's also, there
are more labels than ever before. There's more publishers than ever before. There's more people
out there making music. So it's really fun to discover something new,
someone new. So there is now more opportunities than ever. And this is
(33:47):
again, another signal to you guys to
have your music, have everything ready to go. Get some sync agents
to represent your music if you can, and get that stuff cleared and ready
because you never know where this opportunity can come for you. Absolutely. And you
know, this goes back to a, to a bigger point that we have discussed, which
is, you know, this information of what you just said, you know,
(34:09):
the widening world of music and the widening world
of content. It's out there. Learn what those shows are,
learn what you know. It's all available. You know, go to
IMDb, learn, you know, take the subscription for, what is it, $15
a month or whatever. If sync is really your thing, it will pay off,
right? You know, extensively. But learn what
(34:31):
opportunities exist for you as an artist. Remember,
if this is your career, you've got to do it. This is what
it's all about. You know, invest in yourself. Put your time and energy
into that. Hey insiders, thanks so much for tuning in to this episode.
We really appreciate it. To get show notes, links and everything that
was mentioned during this interview, head on over to our official
(34:53):
website at
mubutv.com/podcast/shownotes. If you're enjoying the content and what
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Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts from.
And don't forget to rate and review our show at iTunes. Five star
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(35:13):
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ending with the handle mubutv, which is spelled M U B U T
V. Don't forget to catch our flagship show, the MUBUTV Music
Business Insider Video Series airing every week on YouTube
(35:35):
at YouTube.com/mubutv
this show was produced and created by Ritch Esra and Eric Knight,
theme music by Disciples of Babylon. And be sure to tune in next week
for another episode of the MUBUTV Music Business
Insider Podcast.
On today's podcast, we sit down with acclaimed music supervisor Steven
Gizicki, known for his work on iconic projects like La La Land
and Bob Dylan's biopic A Complete Unknown, Stephen opens up
about the biggest shifts in music supervision and sync over the past decade,
the hidden truths and misconceptions about the music supervisor's role
and what it really takes to break into this competitive field. We also dive
(00:22):
into how global streaming is changing the soundtrack of film and
tv, the explosion of opportunities for independent artists, and the
keys to getting your music placed. If you want RA insights
straight from one of the industry's top music supervisors, this episode
is a must listen. Insiders, are you ready?
Welcome to MUBUTV's Music Business Insider Podcast, where
(00:45):
our mission is to educate, empower and engage artists and
music business professionals who are dedicated to having a successful career
in the new music industry. Here are your hosts, Ritch
Esra and Eric Knight. Welcome back, insiders, to another
episode of the MUBUTV Music Business Insider
Podcast. Our mission is to educate, empower and
(01:06):
engage your music career. On today's episode, we're thrilled to
welcome Steven Gizicki, acclaimed music supervisor behind films
like La La Land and the Bob Dylan biopic A Complete
Unknown. In this raw and insightful interview, Stephen pulls
back the curtain on the world of music supervision. We dive into the
biggest changes in sync and supervision over the last decade, the
(01:28):
constantly evolving role of music supervisors and how budgets,
technology, and the sheer amount of content have impacted the the
job. Steven shares how he approaches selecting music that
stands out, talks about the global nature of the industry as streaming
expands audiences, and reveals the importance of networking,
resilience and collaboration in breaking into this
(01:50):
competitive field. You'll learn how indie artists can get noticed for placements,
why research makes all the difference, and what it takes to keep a
musical train running on set. Plus, don't miss
Steve's practical advice for aspiring music supervisors, his
favorite book recommendations, and the surprise story of how a new
generation is discovering Bob Dylan. All thanks to the power
(02:12):
of Music in Film. You don't want to miss this fascinating
conversation with one of the top music supervisors in the business, but
first, a word from our sponsor. Hey insiders, Are you an
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further. At Moobu tv, we offer personalized career counseling and
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That's book.mubutv.com
(04:01):
hi, this is Mike Jones. Manager of Creative Sync at Extreme
Music, and you're listening to the MUBUTV Music Business
Insider Podcast. Today's featured guest is music
supervisor Steven Gizicki. This was a very, very
interesting conversation, Eric, with someone who, you know, I've
had a lot of respect for his work for many, many years. He is truly
(04:23):
one of the leading music supervisors in the business. He's a Grammy award
winning supervisor, Emmy award winner. Yeah. I mean, his work on
La La Land, which was, you know, an original
musical, one of the very few original musicals to come along in the
industry in like 25, 30 years. He spoke about a lot of very
interesting things and one of the things that really stood out to me, and
(04:45):
we've discussed this before with other supervisors, is the
globalization of music supervision and
choices in the world today. And this,
insiders, I think is something that you guys need to really pay attention to. It's
the whole aspect that the world is getting smaller and
smaller and smaller. It's not just about, you know, American TV
(05:06):
shows. We're now living in a global, global village as far
as entertainment, as far as, you know, the kinds of things that you're seeing on
Netflix, on Hulu, on all of these channels, coming from international
territories and the whole globalization's impact, you know, while
global streaming hasn't drastically changed the creative choices. It does
influence music licensing logistics, especially when you're shooting in different
(05:28):
countries. And this, I thought was a very interesting kind of
phenomena in that, you know, we tend to think of music only the music that
we know. Right. And, you know, and vice versa.
You know, I think that for our listeners and our insiders,
start thinking in terms of other countries, it's not that the music has
to be exclusively in that language. It's not like, you know, in Germany
(05:50):
they only listen to German language songs. That's not true. Or
in France, there may be more of that, but there's also opportunities
beyond your own borders. And that's the point that I thought
was the most interesting. Yeah, one of the other areas that I thought and, you
know, when we're trying to pick out what we're going to speak to you about,
we really want to deliver value for you guys. And one of the really great
(06:11):
things that I thought was that he said was clarity and email pitches when
pitching music. Clear and descriptive subject lines, I.
E. 1960s folk. One stop. Help supervisors
quickly identify relevant submissions. You know, talked about this again ad
nauseam throughout the show. But it's important that when you're
getting access to any briefs or any inside information in
(06:33):
terms of what the music supervisor is looking for, it's really important
to think within my catalog. Do I really have something, or am I just going
to send them something? Again, this is the whole idea. You have one chance to
impress people or, you know, to make an impression. If you're pitching for something
and your music is heavy metal and it's for a folk, you know,
biopic, you're going to be really shit out of luck. And so the whole
(06:54):
idea is to really listen to what the brief is saying and to really deliver
on that, even if it doesn't get picked. It doesn't mean that your music was
bad, but at least you were in the wheelhouse. And they're going to take much
more respect in somebody that's sending them something that's of value
and that really meets close to the criteria than sending something that's completely out of,
you know, left field. Absolutely. And again, this goes back to something we've
(07:15):
talked about before. The world of music supervision is not about a
supervisor finding five minutes to listen to your music, to find a place
for it in their world. It's for you to serve the needs of that
TV show or to contribute something to that movie or whatever.
Not just, you know, I do heavy metal here. Listen to this. Find a place
for it. So it's. It's a very apt point you're making. And with that,
(07:36):
insiders sit back, relax, and enjoy our Featured conversation
from Musexpo 2025 with Steven Gizicki.
Steve, welcome to the show. Thank you so much. Good to be here. Good to
have you. You know, as a leading music supervisor, do you feel that music
is being used more today to help tell stories in film and
TV than in the past? I don't know. That's being used more. There's just more
(07:58):
stuff, right? There's more. I hate to use the word content, but I'm going to
use it. There's more things for our eyeballs to digest, which means that there needs
to be things for our ears to digest at the same time. And music
plays a pivotal role in what we watch, right?
And it helps us tell a story
and something. Frankly, sometimes it's used as a crutch, right? Like if
(08:20):
maybe something isn't working, you can just have a popular song in there and kind
of guide something through. But because there's so much out there for. Everyone wants to
stand out. So everyone tries to make their different. Their music stand out and
their music different and the music pop. So maybe that's what you're seeing.
Steve, thanks so much for joining us on the show. I wanted to ask you
what have been the most significant shifts in the world of music
(08:40):
supervision and sync over the last 10 years? Oh,
boy. In supervision. What's interesting is there I'm seeing
a lot of music supervision jobs go in house right now, which is not necessarily,
I think, forward momentum. But I'm saying that happen because
we're seeing the industry contract and we're seeing budgets go down. We're seeing music
budgets go down as VFX budgets go up. And as cost
(09:03):
cutting measures, I sometimes see supervisors just aren't getting the gigs
that we normally would because things are growing in house sync. I see
prices going up, which is, you know, sort of
runs counter to what I just said about our budget's going down. So I'm finding,
like in the old days, and I'd be working on an indie film and I
could plead indie poverty, right, and get things for a really good
(09:24):
fee. But that doesn't happen so much anymore because people assume, like, if it's a
film without distribution, well, you know, it's gonna land on a Netflix or on
Amazon anyway. So we're not gonna treat this as a different price point than
we would for a major studio release. So that's sort of an interesting Thing that
I've encountered over the past few years is being on these indie films and
not paying any prices anymore. Very interesting. Wow.
(09:45):
Okay. What are the most common misconceptions about the role
of a music supervisor? I think the most common misconception
that I deal with on a day to day is that our job is exclusively
to pick songs. And there you go. Right. But really,
our job encompasses, you know, we. We supervise all the music. Right. We
oversee the composer. We work with music editors. I live half
(10:07):
of my life on set, like overseeing actors and musicians and
casting musicians and working with actors and getting them into vocal training and
finding the right guitar coach for somebody. Right. So our job is
wider than just picking a song for a placement. I mean,
it is a cornerstone of the job, but it really continued. The job
continues to grow to be something larger than that. Yeah. And some of the projects
(10:30):
you've worked on are, you know, had on set music.
You know, I think of the Damien Chazelle and project that you
did, which was massive. That was a lot of on camera stuff right then and
there, wasn't it? Yeah. I somehow found myself in a career where I don't
get easy jobs anymore. Yeah. Every mountain just gets bigger and
bigger year after year. And, you know, the interesting thing with
(10:53):
La La Land is up until that point, I had never done it on
camera. Okay. I just got thrown into the deep end because I was in
animation and I was working at Lucasfilm for a bit, and I just.
That's a very deep end because it was an original musical. And I just. Day
one, I thought, oh, God, when they were gonna find out I'm the emperor with
no clothes. And, you know, it's like with everything in this world, you just
(11:14):
sort of. You dive into the deep end and you figure it out. And honest,
I find those jobs to be so gratifying. You know, just coming off of a
complete unknown. The Dylan movie, which, you know, we shot
music every single day. Most of these music films, we do have a couple days
off here and there to recuperate, but on this project, every single day
on set. And it was just. It was so much work, but really gratifying. I'm
(11:36):
just so filled with how it turned out, by the way. And he did a
lot of the vocals live, I understand. Yes. That that was the
unusual. He recorded it all previously, but they didn't end up using
that. Yeah. That. We were in the studio with him
and all the actors for a year. Yeah. Until we shot. And then
on day one, we did the usual Thing which is we start playback and we're
(11:57):
gonna put click in his ear and all the. And. And Timmy's like, yeah,
this doesn't really work for me, so let's go live. So. And that was it.
We just never went back. We had a moment of, oh, okay. But what
we realized that the year of pre recording was
essentially like a year of rehearsals in boot camp, you know, so he was really
prepared by the time we got there. That's what he has said. He was very,
(12:19):
very. It was like 40 songs that I think was like, what, 30 in the
movie or something. But, yeah, but he. He knew 40. Yeah. And it's. It's. And
yeah, because he would just sometimes break into another song just to carry on. Like,
there was a Carnegie hall sequence where you see he's playing Hard Rain's Gonna Fall,
but we had a full audience there and he wanted it to feel like more
of a show. So he added a few extra songs and he just kept going.
But, you know, going back to the. Going live, like, what's interesting about is what
(12:42):
I think viewers don't really realize is there's. When you're
performing to pre record, there are technical things that you also have to keep in
your mind, right. There's a click that will tell you, oh, here's where the guitar
is going to come in. Here's where the harmonic is going to come in. Here's
where your vocal are going to come in. And you have to be thinking of
all these things. It's like choreography, right? Like, 1, 2, 3, 1, 2. And
that. That's just a really cerebral, mentally taxing
(13:04):
thing for an actor. And he just, like, you know, I'm just going to play
the song because I don't want to play the songs. I. I know when the
harmonica comes in, I know when my guitar comes in, I'm just going to play
the thing. And that naturalism
is what really sold it, I think. Yeah. You guys did a great job.
Yeah, congratulations. Yeah, absolutely. Really amazing job. Very much
so. My job was just to keep the train running, so. Yeah. And came out
(13:25):
beautiful. Yeah. Steve, when selecting music for a
project, beyond the creative needs, are there any other factors that
are informing your musical choices for a project? Yeah, I try
to find songs that maybe
haven't been in a film, especially recently. I. And I
mean, sometimes the most obvious choice is the right choice. But I always, like, I
(13:46):
find something like, oh, let me just dig deeper and see what else there
might be. And also, I like, I have a lot of friends in this business
that work at labels and publishers and music libraries, whatever, and I want
to help friends out. And so I, you know, kind of. I cast a wide
net and try to see what. What all is out there. Because
I specialize in musicals and biopics and period stuff.
(14:06):
My, like, the pool that I dip into is a bit more limiting than most
people. Right. But I love research. Like, when I get one of
these gigs, one of my first things to do is just to devour every possible
thing. Like, I read a bunch of Bob Dylan books and
listened to just mountains and mountains of material, and just that research opens
up this whole world of things that maybe I didn't know. Like in Bob's book
(14:27):
chronicles, Ike's, maybe Bob will say, oh, I'm in my
house and I'm listening to this lead Belly record, like, oh, note. So, you know,
the research also kind of like, I'm like a sponge, and it just kind of
just find things everywhere, if that makes sense. That's amazing. Steve, has
the global nature of film and especially television
streaming influenced your work as a music supervisor with regards to
(14:50):
your choices of music in terms of catering to a more
diverse and wider cultural audiences? Today,
I think me, personally, less so. Like, I think if I was working
on a show like Euphoria or something that was really trying
to, you know, to sort of trigger something in
culture and feel very. Now I'd be more influenced by something like
(15:12):
that. Right. But if I'm making something very specific, like a movie about Bob
Dylan or a movie about Leonard Bernstein. Right. Then it doesn't influence
me so much. It does, I think, where I make the film. Like,
if I'm like, I just shot a film in Canada, so therefore all of my
music needed, the licenses needed to originate from Canada. So that's a process
thing. But in terms of targeting my music to an audience,
(15:34):
like, the whole. I think I just kind of. I recognize that my
little corner of music is not the be all, end all of the film. I'm
part of the whole. So I sort of figure out what the film itself is
targeting. And I kind of align with that. With that. No, I
mean, you answered the question in an interesting way because you talked about, like, something
like Euphoria, where perhaps in an era, another era,
(15:55):
they may have had this as far as their parameter. And now, given that their
audience is much wider, they may have this as their parameter of
what they can put into the film, whereas they wouldn't have made those choices
years ago creatively. Yeah. And I, like, Jen does a Brilliant job on that show.
Right. And I felt like it's also. It's very different from what I do. Like,
I would probably. If I get that job, I probably just cry in a corner
like I wouldn't always do. But it's. It's. You
(16:19):
know, they're like, that's what's so great about this career is that every job is
different, every film is different, every project is different, and everybody has different needs, and
we're all friends and we all collaborate and we'll all put our heads together and
I'll be like, oh, Jen, can you help me with this? Or what's your. How
would you do this? And that collaboration is, I think, something that maybe we don't
talk about a lot, but we do all network and know each other and reach
out for advice and for support. Hey, insiders, we hope that you've been
(16:41):
enjoying our featured conversation. Stay tuned because we've got so much
value coming your way. But before we dive back in, a word from our
sponsor. Hey, Eric, as an artist, what do you find are the most challenging
aspects to. To a music career, especially when you're starting out?
Well, I think one of the first things is just trying to get the direction
of who you are as an artist, where you want to go, where you want
(17:02):
to be. And, you know, we've talked about it on the show a lot. Who
is your target audience? Who you are, who. What do you stand for? What
do you believe in? What do you think would resonate with an audience? And so
those are some of the things that I would feel being a new artist. Obviously,
what I know now is different because I know these things. But for people that
are out there, like our audience, that don't necessarily. Any direction to
(17:23):
go would be the first things that I would start off with. And having the
songs incorporate those elements that you're speaking of
into it, that's so important today. Yeah. And I think that's one of the reasons
why we started MUBUTV and why we started this new consulting service that we're
offering to all of our insiders out there. Because that is another one of the
big things. I mean, that is the big thing is like, having the great songs.
(17:44):
That's what it really starts off. Our friend Don Grierson always said it always
starts with a great song. So that's probably. Besides putting together
what your audience and what your target audiences is the single most
important thing. Where are your songs at currently, today? Are you
collaborating with people? Are you trying to go out to networking Events where you
can connect with other songwriters and stuff like that. So yeah. And what are your
(18:05):
strengths exactly? You know, are you a strong lyric
writer? Are you a strong melody writer? Are you a strong musician?
A player. Right. You know, and it's really important to get really
strong clarity on those issues before proceeding. I totally
agree, Rich. And you know, with our consulting services, we offer a
myriad of different packages. We've made it super affordable for everybody. So,
(18:27):
you know, if you guys are interested out there and connecting with us on a
coaching call, you can visit book.mubutv.com
and start off with a free 15 minute discovery call. Well, yeah,
absolutely. That we start with an initial 15 minute call where we can
get a sense of who you are, what are the issues that you specifically
have and want to work on. Exactly. And we can go from
(18:49):
there. Absolutely. Yeah. And we tailor everything to your needs. It's not like a cookie
cutter thing. We kind of really want to get to know who you are as
an artist, where you at today? What's the snapshot of you as an
artist today and then start trying to craft something that's tailor made for
you. So again, if you're interested, Visit us at
book.mubutv.com for your 15 minute discovery
call. Hi, this is Emma Banks, music agent and co head of global
(19:12):
touring at caa. Are you an insider? I am.
Subscribe now. I always love this question, Steve. Can you think
of any examples where a sink placement you made had a significant
impact on an artist's career? Oh boy. I don't think Bob Dylan needed
my help. Aside from Bob Dylan, none of those.
Songs were known, right? Yeah, yeah, I.
(19:36):
Boy, that's hard to. I mean, again, I don't really function in the
breaking bands territory, but actually, but I can talk about like
Bob and Woody Guthrie for example. I just returned two weeks ago
from Bob Dylan Sanders and the Woody Guthrie center in Tulsa, Oklahoma. Right?
Yes. And when I got the job on the Dylan movie,
Timmy actually asked me like, oh, so what drew you to this movie? And I
(19:58):
said, oh, you know, I really want to expose Bob Dylan to a new generation
of fans. Right. And Timmy said, oh, that's exactly why I'm doing the
movie. And so I went to the Bob Dylan Woody Guthrie center and they were
so appreciative of what we have done because they are now seeing
new generations of Bob Dylan fans that are maybe fans of only
like four months. Wow. Flying in from overseas to go
(20:20):
to, to visit these museums and see these artifacts. And just so you Know,
I won't say that what, what I have done has significantly
changed their careers, but what it has is it's brought a new audience to Woody
Guthrie and to Bob Dylan, which is really exciting and gratifying. Yeah. Because that's
like a cultural impact goes way, way beyond the movie. Yeah,
yeah. I like. I brought one of my best friends, I brought his daughter
(20:43):
to the premiere. She's 14 years old. She's a big Timothy Chalamet
fan, which is why I brought her. Had never, never heard of Bob Dylan before.
Right. And she left the theater singing Bob Dylan songs, got a guitar for
Christmas. The first thing she learned on guitar was blowing on the wind. Has
listened to nothing but Bob Dylan since she saw the movie in December. Wonderful. I
feel, ah, my job is done. Yeah. No, that's good. Well, you know, in interviews,
(21:03):
Timmy has said he knew very little when he was offered the part.
Very little. He knew the name, but that was about it. I mean, he was
honest about it. And he spent, you know, several years, like four or five
years deep diving before he shot the movie. And we only
dealt with a four year period. Right. Yeah. And what people, I think, don't really.
Okay, I'm going down to Bob Dylan rabbit hole. Sorry, everybody. No, Okay. I think
(21:25):
people don't realize about Bob is. Bob is very similar to say, Stones and the
Beatles in that every era feels very different. Very. Yes. And I hope
that after watching the movie that people go and discover
latter periods of Bob because it's very different and very rewarding and you'll sort of.
It almost feels like a new artist kind of turning a page every time that
you go into a new decade. And I hope that people carry on.
(21:47):
Absolutely. I mean, when the film ends, you know, if, you know,
Dylan's work, It's like Highway 61 is coming. And you
know, these brilliant, masterful, you know, Blonde on Blonde
is going to be coming and you know, double albums that were just
masterful, you know, in. In his, as you say, the next
evolution of his artistry, which was, you know, a seminal period for
(22:08):
him. Yeah. And I would like to continue making a movie every 10 years, but
I don't know that. Yes, a complete unknown. The sequel will be getting
better known, you know. Exactly. Sort of known. Exactly.
I want to ask you today, are there more opportunities for independent
artists to get their music placed into film industry, television and other visual media
in your experience? Oh, yeah, absolutely. As I mentioned earlier, like, we
(22:32):
sort of, you know, I cast a wide net and there's also. There are More
labels than ever before. There's more publishers than ever before. There are more people out
there making music than ever before, which is daunting.
But it's really fun to discover something new, someone new.
And there's. Because there's so much being made, everyone wants
something different. That wasn't in the show that you saw last night on Hulu. Right.
(22:54):
So there is now. There are now so many more
opportunities. And also for. For new artists, maybe they can pitch
their material sort of at a lower price point and that, you know, like
if. If it's budget friendly, that also sometimes can help kind of get in the
door and then establish a footing in the sync world too.
Also, by the way, I've been doing this a long time
(23:16):
and going down the independent, homemade road.
The production quality just didn't fit sonically in a
project sometimes. Right. Because if we're dealing with atmos and whatever, like, something needs to
sound great. But now, clearly you can record the most spectacular thing in your
bathroom. Right, right, right. And that has just opened up a
whole new world for independent artists. Great. Sticking with that
(23:39):
thread. Steve, what. What are the best avenues that you recommend for artists
and songwriters to place music into? Film, television and other
visual media? I think, I mean, every supervisor will
have a different answer to that. Like, I don't use TikTok, so that's
probably. I think that's a very key, key avenue for people.
For me, it's to be.
(24:01):
I find independent artists, like, if they're kind of. If they're associated with maybe
somebody I know, like a. Like an end. Like a. Like a pitch person that
I happen to be. Be close with or something. Like there's. Because
otherwise there's so much noise out there. And, you know, I read everything and I
look at, you know, all the music websites every morning and read as much
as I can. But having. Having a representative pitch
(24:24):
is for me anyway, for what I do, really valuable
because it's sort of. I can say, oh, I need this, this and this. This
is the sort of the genre that I'm looking for. And that person filters and
sends me stuff, which is incredibly helpful. And that's how I find newer artists
more often. And then not. Because if you're going it alone
as an artist, it's sort of to cut through the noise, you sort of need
(24:44):
somebody speaking on your behalf. You know, the old damage. If you need somebody. Somebody
talking about you in the room that you're not in. Right. So I find a
representative, whether it's a label or a Publisher or a sync
agent helping is the best possible room.
Steve, throughout your life, are there any books,
films, or documentaries that have been particularly
(25:04):
inspirational to you that you could recommend? I
always recommend Passman's Everything you need to know about music, but afraid to ask. I
recommend that to every single person I meet. That because I was. That's just the
most informative book that I've ever read. Okay. About
the business. I love musician
autobiographies. Like, for me, like, Keith Richards book just was
(25:25):
really brilliant. And there's a Lou Reed book, King of New York that came out
last year that I just absolutely devoured. And I love
that. I sort of also, like, I'll read fiction book and then I'll read a
music biography. And I love. More. More than a
biography. Like, I love autobiographies. I like. I love reading, like, Keith
Richards book. Like, he'll, like, he just goes on tangents forever. Right, right.
(25:47):
And Bob's book chronicles that I mentioned earlier as well. Right. So
reading an artist's life in their own words and their own
idiosyncrasies and their own, you know, like, someone will say, I don't even. Actually, I
don't know if this is true. I barely remember this. But here's the story. Like
that, to me is that looking inside people's brains to
me is always inspiring. Yeah. And that's. Those are the
(26:09):
books that are piled up next to my. Next to my bed. What advice do
you have for those who are interested in pursuing a career in music
supervision? You know, that's an interesting question, because
the business is contracting a bit. As I
said earlier. It's. So there were. I think it's harder
to break into now, in a way, maybe even though there is more stuff being
(26:30):
made, there are. As I said, there are fewer jobs and there are
more people kind of fighting for the same jobs. But, you
know, smart, talented people with taste always break through. And
I think it's key to just,
you know, that's the old adage. You got to network and you got to meet
people and be. Be resilient because this business will,
(26:53):
you know, will tear anybody down. And I, you know, I often joke, like, I've
got. Been laid off more often than I've ever actually been hired
because it's just, it's. It's tough. And you just. And I think if you're
resilient and you just keep picking yourself up every time that you have a setback,
like, those are the people that make it, and that's how you survive Is you
just. And you also have to be open to, I think say yes more than
(27:14):
no when it comes to a job. Right. Like, oh, can you help with this?
Can you help with this? And some people say, isn't that really what I do?
I'm like, no, Just, I think, recognize that we are all in this together
and we all kind of. And we're sort of. We're all building something
together, and you have to be flexible. And I
got. I think my career is where it is because I was open to traveling.
(27:35):
Traveling to Singapore for crazy rich Asians because Gabe Hilford couldn't make
it, and he was a supervisor in the film. And I got a call like,
hey, can you go to Singapore tomorrow? Yeah, sure. Why not? I mean, that's. That's
hard for people to say, right? Yeah. But being flexible and open
to new to and available is. Is key because, you know,
they'll call somebody, they'll call the next person, like, oh, you know, and also, like,
have the skills, learn how to clear songs, learn how to work with music producers
(27:59):
and composers and learn how to book studios and learn how to book musicians. Like,
the more knowledge you have as well, in your bag of tricks
means that you are. There are more doors open to you in terms of what
jobs are out there. What is the best way for people to connect with you?
Is it through socials or through an agent or through your website? Or do
you have one? I'm building a website. Okay. Probably about a
(28:19):
decade later than I should have, but I'm finally. Finally getting to
it. So. Yeah, that'll be up shortly. My agent is great.
Socials, sometimes, I mean, I'm really terrible at reading my LinkedIn
messages, I must admit, and really terrible at looking at my Instagram. I think we
all are messing with. Yeah. Yeah. I just. There's. There's too many things to message
on now. Right. And I'm like, I can't. I mean,
(28:42):
Instagram is a great way. And. And my agent, it's. It's hard, too, because, you
know, people reach out to pitch stuff. Yeah. On a daily basis, some of whom
I know, some of whom I don't. And. And I think on behalf of all
music supervisors, I apologize to those that I haven't gotten back to because there's just
so many that I can't always respond. But what I
do promise is that everything that comes in, I absorb.
(29:04):
Like, somebody will say, oh, I'm 1950s surf guitar
rock. And I'm like, okay, that person has that. And I just sort of File
that away in my brain. And then if I need that sort of stuff, I
will find them. Right. So, by the way, if you're going to email, subject headings
are everything interesting. Because that's like, boom. Okay, I get.
I get. I know exactly what. So what subject headings do you. Are you attracted
(29:24):
to most? Free Puppies and margaritas. Free
puppies and Margaritas. And here's my song. Exactly. Yeah. No, I think
it's something very clear. Like. And people are really good about, like. Oh, you know,
like 1960s folk, one stop. Right. Like that kind of stuff. I mean, it's
very clear. Rather than saying hi, reaching out or high connecting
is, you know, that's, you know, I
(29:46):
will read that anyway, by the way, because I read everything. I promise everybody listening,
I read everything. But, but those sort of like. Like
a very clear subject heading pops. Makes it. Makes it much clearer.
Steve, we want to thank you so. Much for taking the time to do this.
We really appreciate it. Really. You are so welcome. Thank
you. So glad that we had a chance to talk with Stephen about
(30:07):
this. This was a really interesting conversation on many levels. One of the
things Eric, that he spoke about, which, you know, we haven't really heard
a lot about, but I thought was a very, very salient point to
our listeners, is he spoke about the world of music
supervision, contracting, and how a lot of that
work on a business sense is going in house.
(30:30):
Right. So it's creating less and less opportunities for independent
music supervisors and a lot of it going in house and finding that,
you know, sometimes the networks or the studios are
employing more people or doing more of that work themselves, when
normally they would just outsource it to a music supervisor
so they wouldn't be the ones having to do it. And how he's seeing from
(30:52):
his perspective, and he's at the top of his head. Yeah. Contract.
So that's an interesting observation. My feeling is that you're going to see
more and more of that as time progresses, especially over the next year
or two. I think we're just beginning that kind of contraction. We've spoken about
this on the show before where I think we're going to see, you know, this
enormous volume of production that we've seen over the last five, six,
(31:15):
seven years. Contract as well, I think, you know, it's even been announced. Netflix has
said, you know, they're not spending $8 billion a year on content.
Maybe. Maybe. Maybe six or five. Right. Which is still a significant.
But it's not what it was. And I think, you're seeing a lot of the
other networks have the same kind of consciousness. So that's going to affect it.
Yeah. And I think you and I have talked about this before, maybe on the
(31:36):
show or maybe in private, where I told you I feel like
there's a collapse coming with all of these streamers. There is so
much content on so many channels coming out that it cannot
sustain itself. And I think you're going to start seeing those players,
whoever they happen to be. You fill in the blanks that are going to go
by the way side. And you know, I, I, I watch the stock market quite
(31:58):
a bit and I, you know, Netflix has just had a renaissance. I mean their
stock is up to like eleven hundred dollars because of the moves that they have
made and the investments that they have made. And I think I told you this.
I think eventually you're going to start seeing these streamers start falling by the
wayside. They cannot sustain themselves because they don't have enough subscriber
base to continue to support that apparatus. So
(32:19):
I think you're going to start seeing those fall by the wayside and eventually you'll
see all of that content coming back into Netflix. And maybe that's why they're
ant as well too, cutting back on their original programming a little
bit is because you're going to start seeing that collapse of
that whole model. Absolutely. I think that the, to address your
point specifically, I think we're already, we saw the first of
(32:41):
its kind of deal where Apple, Right. Made a deal. And
I, for the life of me can't remember who the streaming service was
that they made the co deal with. Correct. But did that exact thing.
You know, like when you would get hbo, you would get, you know, the movies
from all the studios. Correct. Now everybody's in their own isolated chamber,
but Apple was the first to break that. And if you notice, Netflix has
(33:03):
that when you go to Netflix now, there's very few lice. I mean, you know,
the movie companies are still licensing to them, but they're trying to hold on to
that because that's all they've got. They're trying to hold on to their library of
titles to put in their Paramount plus, you know,
you, you again, you fill in the blank. There's 50 of those things out there
now, Peacock. Yeah, exactly, exactly. But one of the other areas
(33:25):
that I thought was really interesting that, that we spoke about was the opportunities for
independent artists in film and television. Sync and you know, I quote
absolutely. I cast a wide net and there's also, there
are more labels than ever before. There's more publishers than ever before. There's more people
out there making music. So it's really fun to discover something new,
someone new. So there is now more opportunities than ever. And this is
(33:47):
again, another signal to you guys to
have your music, have everything ready to go. Get some sync agents
to represent your music if you can, and get that stuff cleared and ready
because you never know where this opportunity can come for you. Absolutely. And you
know, this goes back to a, to a bigger point that we have discussed, which
is, you know, this information of what you just said, you know,
(34:09):
the widening world of music and the widening world
of content. It's out there. Learn what those shows are,
learn what you know. It's all available. You know, go to
IMDb, learn, you know, take the subscription for, what is it, $15
a month or whatever. If sync is really your thing, it will pay off,
right? You know, extensively. But learn what
(34:31):
opportunities exist for you as an artist. Remember,
if this is your career, you've got to do it. This is what
it's all about. You know, invest in yourself. Put your time and energy
into that. Hey insiders, thanks so much for tuning in to this episode.
We really appreciate it. To get show notes, links and everything that
was mentioned during this interview, head on over to our official
(34:53):
website at
mubutv.com/podcast/shownotes. If you're enjoying the content and what
we're doing here on the show, please subscribe to the podcast on Apple
Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts from.
And don't forget to rate and review our show at iTunes. Five star
reviews are always welcome and help to ensure that our podcast
(35:13):
stands out on the top rated and new and noteworthy charts on
itunes and our space. You can also find us at social media at
Facebook, Instagram, TikTok and Twitter X all
ending with the handle mubutv, which is spelled M U B U T
V. Don't forget to catch our flagship show, the MUBUTV Music
Business Insider Video Series airing every week on YouTube
(35:35):
at YouTube.com/mubutv
this show was produced and created by Ritch Esra and Eric Knight,
theme music by Disciples of Babylon. And be sure to tune in next week
for another episode of the MUBUTV Music Business
Insider Podcast.
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