July 8, 2025 • 38 mins
How Trailer Music Is Chosen: Secrets from Music Supervisor Mike Jones
Discover the latest trends in music supervision with top industry insider Mike Jones from Extreme Music! In this episode, we explore the dynamic shifts shaping music for trailers, film, TV, and video games. Mike shares the secrets behind dramatic trailerizations, picking the perfect track, and how global music licensing is changing for diverse audiences. Whether you’re an artist, composer, or aspiring music supervisor, this is your essential guide to the world of sync, audio branding, and international music business! 🌍🎬 #MusicSupervision #SyncLicensing #MusicBusiness
Our mission here at MUBUTV is to help independent artists and music business professionals of the future to educate, empower and engage their music career.
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The Music Business Insider Podcast is a deep dive for listeners like you who want to educate, empower & engage their music career. We take you inside behind the scenes through a series of in-depth conversations with today’s leading experts in the Music Industry including A&R, Music Supervision, Artist Management, Marketing, Publicity, Touring, and much much more. You can find it by searching “Music Business Insider Podcast” on any podcast app or platform [ie: Apple Podcasts, Spotify, etc.].
📒 Show Notes and Resources 📒
https://www.mubutv.com/mike-jones-music-supervisor
⚡️What you'll learn in this episode⚡️
👉 The secrets to selecting a standout trailer track
👉 What genres are HOT for video game soundtracks
👉 How global streaming is shaping diverse music choices
👉 Mike’s no-nonsense advice for breaking into music supervision
👉 and so much more...
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⚡️Insiders! Secure Your Spot! Get expert music career coaching with Ritch & Eric. Book your 15-min discovery call now: Grab a spot! 👉 https://book.mubutv.com
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Podcast Credits
Produced by: Ritch Esra & Eric Knight
Editor: Eric Knight
Shownotes & Transcriptions: Rick Staffy
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Copyright © 2025 MUBUTV™ Media. All Rights Reserved
Leading music supervisor Mike Jones shares insider secrets on selecting the perfect track for film, TV, and video games on the MUBUTV Music Business Insider Podcast. He shares how video game music is changing and why popular songs are now used in trailers.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
On today's podcast, we sit down with leading music supervisor Mike
Jones, who's made his mark in the world of trailers, film,
TV and video games. With music library Extreme Music,
Mike shares insider secrets on the dramatic shift from traditional
orchestral scores to pulse pounding trailerizations of popular
songs, what it really takes to select the perfect track that captures
(00:22):
emotion and drives the story, and how video game soundtracks are
pushing the boundaries of genre and energy. We dive into the
nuances of licensing for global markets, the impacts of
diverse audiences, and the practical side of making it as a music
supervisor. Plus, Mike's top advice for breaking into this
exciting field. If you're looking to understand the future of music
(00:44):
and visual storytelling, you won't want to miss this one.
Insiders, are you ready? Welcome to
MUBUTV's Music Business Insider Podcast where our
mission is to educate, empower and engage artists and music
business professionals who are dedicated to having a successful career in
the new music industry. Here are your hosts, Ritch Esra
(01:06):
and Eric Knight. Welcome back, insiders, to another episode of the
MUBUTV Music Business Insider Podcast, where our mission is
to educate, empower and engage your music career. On today's
episode, we sit down with Mike Jones, renowned music supervisor and
expert in music for film, television trailers and video games.
In this exclusive RAW interview, we explore the massive shifts taking
(01:28):
place in visual storytelling and music, from the rise of trailerized
popular songs and the decline of traditional orchestral scores
to the art of choosing the perfect track that makes every trailer and
promo stand out. Mike shares his insider tips on what it takes to
select or commission music that captivates audiences, what
musical elements are in demand for modern game soundtracks, and how
(01:49):
global streaming platforms are transforming the way music connects with
culturally diverse audiences worldwide. He even gives advice to
aspiring music supervisors and talks about the changing landscape of music
licensing for international markets. If you're wondering how to break into
this world, or you simply want to know the secrets behind making music for
today's most exciting films, shows and games, this episode
(02:11):
is for you. You don't want to miss a single minute. But first, a
word from our sponsor. Hey insiders. Are you an aspiring
musician, artist, band, or future music business professional looking
to take your career to the next level? Well, look no further. At MUBU
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designed specifically for folks like you. Imagine having both of us by
(02:33):
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(03:18):
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(03:41):
wait? Don't let uncertainty hold you back. Join us for your free 15
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career. That's book.mubutv.com
hi, this is Dave Wallace. A and R from the Mushroom Group and Futures Music
Group. And you're listening to the MUBUTV Music Business Insider
(04:03):
Podcast. Welcome back insiders. Today's featured guest is none
other than Mike Jones from Extreme Music. This is a
Extreme music is a music library that deals with
extreme forms of music. In other words, it's one that really distinguishes
themselves in the market. If you want like extreme forms of heavy
metal, you know, the 10 or 15 different genres of heavy metal that are
(04:26):
outside of the traditional norm of heavy metal, you go to them. If you want,
you know, industrial, that's not traditional, you go to them. If you want
African music, that's not like the regular, you know, stuff that we hear from Africa
or South America, you go to them. That's their whole model. And he
is a music supervisor for them. And this was a very, very interesting
conversation. I mean, he got into a lot of the nuances of his particular
(04:47):
areas, Eric, which I thought were very, very interesting. One of the most interesting,
and this is where you get into like nuances that I think are really
valuable for our insiders of understanding the differences in
music supervision between the different areas. Trailers versus
Promo versus games, right? Versus film versus
tv. Like they each have a different role. And his whole thing about, you
(05:09):
know, looking at the distinctive differences between trailers and promo,
how trailers, they want punchy in your face kinds of
music, whereas promo, you know, often Takes a more pop rock approaches or
allows a lyrical story storytelling element to
drive the the piece. Promos are like those things, you know, tune in Sunday night
for NFL football, you know, and they'll run like a specific piece for like the
(05:31):
promo of the show. Right. And trailers are like, you know, a full on
thing, know the upcoming Marvel movie or the upcoming Brad Pitt film or
whatever it happens to be. And they serve different purposes. Right. And they
have different needs. So I thought that was an interesting distinction. Yeah. Another
interesting point leading with that. What you were saying was what Mike mentioned was
simple, impactful lyrics work best for trailers. Think
(05:53):
memorable one liners rather than long narratives as vocals are
used in short drops. Now this is not to me now to start adjusting your
music for that. If you just happen to have music that fits that, that
narrative, that's what's going to really work well. So again, just another tip that
we want to share with you that we think it would be very valuable. Yeah,
I mean, I think a couple episodes ago we were talking about this very thing
(06:13):
with the upcoming Brad Pitt correct film. The
formula one. They use just the one line, you. Know, never break the
chains and just repeating that droning. Exactly. But that's all. They use
that lyrical element right in your face in a very kind of
specific, you know, oral A U R a L, you know,
kind of way that, that, that it comes across. So yeah, that's an interesting point.
(06:36):
And with that, insiders sit back, relax and enjoy our featured
conversation. Coming to you from Musexpo 2025 with
Mike Jones. Mike, welcome. Thanks,
appreciate it. Thanks for having me here. Absolutely. Thank you for doing the show. You
know, in your experience, is music being used more today
in visual storytelling than in the past? Oh, totally. I think
(06:58):
there's a lot of corresponding features between a video
production and a music production. And I think both artists on either side,
whether it's behind the camera or behind the mixing board, they get
inspired by the other medium. So to work together and
collaborate on those projects and have more
ideas about what the music will be like to video, I think
(07:20):
producers, directors, editors love being a
part of that creative process. Mike, thanks so much for joining us on
the show. I wanted to ask you, you know, over your career in music supervision,
what are the most significant shifts you've seen in music? How
music is selected and used in trailers, promos and other visual media.
And how have these changes impacted the creative process? Yeah, I think I've
(07:43):
seen a few shifts over the years. I think probably the biggest
one is the shift from kind of your traditional
orchestral, whimsical trailer music to
trailerizations of popular songs that over
the last three years has been a huge development
in the industry. I think that's for a couple reasons. I think the
(08:05):
viewers, they love and the editors, they love to mesh lyrics
with the content that's on the screen. So, you know, they want
to be able to tell the story lyrically
as well as visually. And they also have their own music tastes. And
there's. There's so many times where you will see a classic rock
track or a slow ballad track kind of pumped up to be something that brings
(08:28):
a lot of punch and emotion and just kind of a
different take on it. And I think the viewer really, you
know, their ears perk up when they see something like that is. Or hear, pardon
me, hear something like that, as well as, you know, a classic track
that is being used in. In a way that's different
but really appropriate for the visual piece. Yeah,
(08:50):
and I think the other, the other change that I've seen over the years and
it's. It kind of ties in to kind of the coverization,
trailerization of popular commercial songs is
kind of the weeding out of like the three piece trailer. Right. Like a lot
of times, like back in the 90s and the early 2000s,
like you'd have a very clear intro piece and then a break
(09:11):
for some type of dramatic effect or establishment of a
relationship and then finish with like kind of a very climactic piece.
And a lot of times in the industry it was used with three different
tracks. That's not the case anymore. A lot of times they're
looking for a single track, for a single drop that covers all
three. And I think that was, you know, a shift kind of already
(09:33):
happening when I started back in 2015, 2017.
But nowadays it's pretty much out the door as far as
needing three tracks for a spot and just going with one track
that really carries the piece all the way through. You specialize in
music for film and television, particularly in trailers.
Trailers rely on music to instantly capture attention and
(09:55):
evoke emotion. What are some of the key factors you consider
when selecting or commissioning music for them?
Yeah, punchiness, man. If your ears aren't kind of
getting tapped on the side when you start listening to a track,
you know, that's really something that I'm looking for. I'm looking for
dynamics. The ability to start off
(10:18):
strong and then pull back and have that emotive moment or the ability
to start emotively and then really ramp it up. In the chorus.
So, you know, give and take. And there's a lot that artists can do with
that. Whether it's with stems and, you know,
maybe the track itself isn't fully like that, but if you're able to
provide stems, kind of the editors behind the keyboard, behind
(10:40):
the screen are able to really work with those in
a way that will kind of create that feeling. I look for
lyrics, you know, less so
storytelling lyrics. While those are important, you know,
a lot of the success that I see are kind of
simple one liners, you know, that can
(11:02):
be deep, but also on the level, just really straightforward
and can be repeated. You know, there's always a lot of times in
the trailers, not long lengths of vocals,
but little drops, little pockets where those will go in.
Energy is a big thing that I'm always looking for. Whether that's
through percussion and high paced and
(11:24):
cowbell, we need more cowbell. Or you know, whether it's like
an arpeggiated synth underneath where it's just a drone but you kind of
have the wall walk and it's really like kind of keeping up the
pace without being super in your face. But yeah,
energy, punchiness and dynamics I think would be
the top three things that I'm looking for. Mike, I wanted to ask you, since
(11:46):
music choices and trailers are driven by the marketing team's creative
decisions, what other factors make it unique from a musical
perspective? That's a great question.
I think knowing the audience so I deliver a lot of video game
trailers is a big one that I deliver on and those kind of give me
the most creative freedom. Because a lot of times in film
(12:08):
they'll have a big custom
composed track, whether it's back to the trailerization of a
Taylor Swift track or a Kanye track or whatever. And then
a lot of times I'm brought in on the back end to kind of replace
that and find something similar. So on film
there's not too much creative direction. They kind of want something that the original track
(12:30):
was like. In video games you kind of have to know more
of the audience. You kind of have to understand the ethos of the game. Like
Destiny has a very orchestral sound. They have
a lot of electronic elements as well, but it's very like
Triumphant and. And Big and Victorious,
while also kind of being like a little sci fi too. So
(12:52):
kind of really like digging into what the franchise speaks
for. And you know, Riot has a lot of things that they
look for in their trailers. Very specific in their
sonic branding, but also knowing like, where are these pieces going to Air because
they always kind of love a little localization to it as well. So
I think just kind of being mindful of, of the
(13:15):
type of the game where it's aired the bass
and just kind of on their previous projects. And then there's always something I
kind of throw in into my playlist kind of at the end. They're usually about
10 to 12 track songs and maybe the last two
I'll always kind of label as a wild card. Like, I know this isn't the
brief that you've asked for. Right. But in my time
(13:37):
pitching for you all and being fans of the games, I think this could be
a good opportunity to work. And has it worked for you?
Sometimes. I don't know specifically of a single
time that it's worked. I've not been pushed back and be
like, hey, we don't need that much, like, we're good. So I kind of
take it the approach of nobody's told me to stop. So I think
(14:00):
they're appreciative of it. But yeah, I can't think of a
specific time where they've been like, oh my God, yeah, we're
going with this. It was a total left turn. And thank you. You know,
picking up on that, is it ever a challenge for you balancing
the creative aspects of trailer music with the commercial
goals of selling a film, TV show or a video game?
(14:22):
Not really. Because I think, you know,
pitching for trailers are all about bringing excitement and
in drawing people into the product. And, you
know, I love a left turn ad where the music isn't really lining
up. But yeah, I think if you're able to generate excitement
and this, I think maybe where it becomes interesting is when you
(14:45):
evolve into different genres and different type of artists.
I think that's really exciting. Like maybe if you have like a super
exciting jazz track behind something like kind of that
whiplash sound that, that can be punchy.
That's a unique out of the box kind of thought there. And
maybe that goes behind a tech ad and maybe it goes behind a film.
(15:08):
But yeah, I think they're pretty congruent because you're just trying to get the
audience excited about the product. And in that way the
song has to be exciting. Whether it's in, you know, the pace of the song
or the uniqueness of a song and then venturing into
different genres is as long as it sounds good,
like it's really hard to miss, you know what I mean? Like, if
(15:30):
it's, if it sounds great and it's a, you
know, bossa nova Track, who cares? It just
sounds so good. Music is good. Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally.
You know, Mike, you also work a lot in promo,
and what are the creative distinctions between music for promos and
trailers? That's a really good question. I think. I think on
(15:51):
that end, it's definitely genre. You know,
you see a lot more promo taking kind of the pop.
Like a true pop track, a true rock track, is a little bit more
accepted in promo work, rather than like a film trailer
and have that lead the promo, you know what I mean? Lyrically,
I think, is big, and that can be, you know, that can be a
(16:14):
little bit more storytelling on that side, and you can
kind of, you know, lead in on that a little bit more and have a
bit of a longer lyrical line in that. Otherwise, I
think just kind of on the basics, they're less punchy. Like, rather than
finding a truly punchy track, I'm just trying to look for something that's, like,
soaring and anthemic and can kind
(16:37):
of like, raise. Raise the person, uplift them.
Uplift is always like, a touchy word in there, but just something
that builds maybe a bit of At a slower pace. I think trailers are a
lot more in your face and sudden, and
promos are a bit more of a slow burn. Hey, insiders, we hope that you've
been enjoying our featured conversation. Stay tuned because we've got so
(16:59):
much value coming your way. But before we dive back in, a word from
our sponsor. Hey, Eric, as an artist, what do you find are the most challenging
aspects to a music career, especially when you're starting out?
Well, I think one of the first things is just trying to get the direction
of who you are as an artist, where you want to go, where you want
to be. And, you know, we've talked about it on the show a lot. Who
is your target audience, who you are, Who. What do you stand for?
(17:23):
What do you believe in? What do you think would resonate with an audience? And
so those are some of the things that I would feel being a new artist.
Obviously, what I know now is different because I know these things, but for people
that are out there, like our audience, that don't have necessarily any direction
to go, would be the first things that I would start off with. And having
the songs incorporate those elements that you're speaking
(17:43):
of into it, that's so important today. Yeah. And I think that's one of the
reasons why we started MUBUTV and why we started this new consulting service that
we're offering to all of our insiders out There, because that is another one of
the big things. I mean, that is the big thing is like having the great
songs. That's what it really starts off. Our friend Don Grierson always said
it always starts with a great song. So that's probably. Besides putting
(18:05):
together what your audience and what your target audience is, is the single
most important thing. Where are your songs at currently today? Are you
collaborating with people? Are you trying to go out to networking events where you
can connect with other songwriters and stuff like that? So yeah. And what are your
strengths exactly? You know, are you a strong lyric writer?
Are you a strong melody writer? Are you a strong musician, A player.
(18:27):
Right. You know, and it's really important to get really strong clarity
on those issues before proceeding. I totally agree, Ritch. And you
know, with our consulting services, we offer a myriad of different packages
that we've made it super affordable for everybody. So, you know, if you guys are
interested out there and connecting with us on a coaching call, you can
visit book.moobutv.com and start off with a
(18:49):
free 15 minute discovery call. Well, yeah, absolutely. That we start
with an initial 15 minute call where we can get a sense of who you
are, what are the issues that you specifically have and want to
work on. Exactly. And we can go from there. Absolutely. Yeah. And we
tailor everything to your needs. It's not like a cookie cutter thing. We kind of
really want to get to know who you are as an artist, where you at
(19:10):
today, what's the snapshot of you as an artist today, and then
start trying to craft something that's tailor made for you. So again, if you're
interested, Visit us at book.moobootv.com for your
15 minute discovery call. Hi, this is Mark Sutherland, the host
of the Money Trench music industry podcast. Are you an insider?
I am. Subscribe now. Yeah, you just took the words right out of my
(19:33):
mouth. I was just thinking in your face as you were saying it. It was
interesting. Yeah. So also, Mike, I'm curious, what
genres or styles are most in demand for
game soundtracks? Oh, man. I mean, electronic
music, I wouldn't go hard on, like, it's edm,
but like hybrid orchestral stuff
(19:54):
is really in demand. Kind of a mix of the two things that
kind of sound a little grimy, like in a little cyber,
you know, cyberpunky, I think is really popular right now.
You know, we've kind of left the world of majestical,
you know, trailer sounds for games. It's much less
that even like a World of Warcraft could have something That's a lot
(20:17):
more, you know, edgy and a lot more like, you
know, distorted and intense and less so. Kind of
flutes and fiddles and kind of like the
adventure, whimsical adventure is not as common
anymore. And it's kind of more again in your face,
punchy. Just really trying to bring that player in and say
(20:40):
this is a super exciting game, not only to watch or to
play, but to watch. Now that's another big part of games
that's really new. So they're not doing marketing just for
people to play the games, they're doing marketing for them to watch them
as well. Mike, I have of a ton two parter for you. Who are the
decision makers in the world of video games? Is it the game
(21:02):
developers, music, music supervisors or other sources? It's a little bit
of all three, you know, like in game, you know, when a
game starts they're gonna have a little bit like of a less team. So
unless they have a music supervisor to start, those devs are gonna be producing
the game and dropping the music in them themselves.
And from my understanding now, I'm no coder or game creator or anything
(21:26):
like that, but kind of once you got a drop in the original game,
it's not getting taken out because for them to take that track out,
they're gonna have to rewrite that code, right? So on some of the indies
and some of the early development stuff, it really is on the
developer side, then a music supervisor could come in
and kind of like lead that team in a certain way.
(21:48):
I think a lot of times those music supervisors, they bring
kind of knowledge on where to, to get the music, where to get good quality
music, how to get the track cleared and all that,
like very easily. But as far as them
really dropping it into the game, I don't think they have like
a huge part in that process. That probably
(22:10):
ends up more on an audio director or a mix
engineer side. And I feel a lot of times those are kind of given
to them, you know, once they drop them in. What
challenges do you face when licensing music for video games? I mean,
for instance, with trailers or video games that are intended for international
markets, are there any specific challenges in licensing music for global
(22:32):
rights or is that not an issue today? Well, I feel
like there's two different questions there. So kind of the first, the one
that's hard for video games I think does kind of go back
to once there's music already in there, it's not really coming out.
So unless you kind of have a big shift in the development,
it may be hard to find a door to get in. However, I
(22:54):
will say that some of the newer games is kind of a sports
game or the apps where the develops the code's
like a little less intrinsic. Each new season will have new music
that comes out. You get a new season of FIFA or a new download of
FIFA. Like EA has the ability to. To, from my
understanding, to add tracks in there, the fly on
(23:16):
the fly. Wow. So something comes out that
they're really feeling or generating toward and they say this needs to be in the
game. It's my understanding that they can just kind of, you know, get it in
there, which is really exciting for artists. It's really
exciting for music supervisors. Like, that team has
probably got one of the best jobs in the world, just being able to. To
(23:37):
listen to thumb through so many new releases and
really like be a tastemaker for a lot of people. Like that FIFA
game is really renowned, you know, in
distribution. No, typically in my role, I'll
distribute worldwide. And you know, that's extreme.
That's. Pardon me, that is unique to extreme because
(23:59):
we, you know, we're one stop. We clear like a one
stop. And so we have a lot of
autonomy to be able to say this can go into a certain
territory and not. I think synchronization rights can be a
little bit different in that because just because
there's synchronization rights in one territory doesn't mean that it goes to another.
(24:20):
So that can be tough on the user's end, right. Of knowing.
Knowing that those kinds of ins and outs. But kind of from my
perspective, when I'm licensing, you know, I have the beauty
of having approvals from the artists, you know,
having the sync and the master all tied up and just being able to go
forward with, you know, however the client music suit, you know,
(24:42):
producer, editor wants to move forward with it, you know.
Mike, with the rise of global streaming platforms and international
programming, how has the need to appeal to a broader and
more culturally different, diverse audiences influence your approach to music
supervision? Are there specific trends or musical elements that
resonate across different markets? Yeah, there's definitely
(25:04):
trends. I think a lot of times it's. We want something local, we want
something organic to our territory. And
I love that. I think it, you know, at extreme, we.
We really had latched onto that from an early
time. You know, before my time, we paid somebody,
we paid a group of people to fly around the entire world
(25:26):
and record organic recordings from those locations. Like
that's what we paid somebody to do. We didn't say, how do we make,
you know, an Irish song here in the States? How do we make,
you know, an African song here? Like, no, let's fly to South
Africa, let's fly to Ireland. You know, we went to these different
territories, got musicians from those communities
(25:49):
to perform on a record and we released it and we call it Passport.
Those tracks still slap like, they're really easy for me to pitch, especially when it
gets granular. And we really want a track from this area. We can do that
with those albums. We have a label on Extreme called Life
that was supplied to us from Peter Gabriel. And it's
just recordings that he's done throughout the world. And
(26:12):
they're beautiful, they sound amazing. They're not trailerized,
but we have the sound design, the stings, the hits to kind of punch those
up. But to be able to say that we not only have it from Peter
Gabriel, but like these authentic recordings from around the world and they sound
great, it's just an amazing advantage to
have when a producer and editor is looking for something
(26:34):
super organic to the territory that they going to be marketing in.
Mike, throughout your life, have there been any books or films or
documentaries that have been particularly inspiring to you,
professionally speaking, that you could recommend? Hmm,
I wish I was more well read. You know what, I'm going to talk about
a book called Desert Solitaire. It has nothing to do with music,
(26:56):
but it has a lot to do with listening to yourself
and listening to what you need and observing that
around. And it's, you know, the quick thing is this guy went out
to the Arches national park and you know, just
needed some time away from people. And he really, you know, looked at
internally and I think in the creative, in a creative
(27:17):
career we need points like that of how
are we doing, where do we go? What's like, are we at least happy? Are
we happy with what we're doing? And I think a lot of times
you can get value from that. So it's not a music book, but it's great
book, film wise, Low Hanging Fruit, Almost
Famous. Absolutely love that movie. You know, I went to
(27:40):
college, I wanted to be a journalist and I wanted to write about music.
And long story short, I filled out the wrong bubble on
my college application and got denied from journalism school
there. So my college counselor was like, hey man, that's
cool. You'll be able to get in, just fill out a major in that
college and then in the spring semester or whatever, you can
(28:02):
apply. So I'm like going down the sheet. I didn't go very far.
Audio production, it was apparently a major. I was like, oh, that
sounds cool. Let me try that out. And then I got into my
first class, and they're talking about being in the studio and recording bands and
playing with their new neve console that they just got. And I said, I can
really do a major, like recording bands. Like, that's an
(28:24):
actual thing. Journalism went out the door real quick
after that. So, you know, Almost Famous kind of got me on
this. Of like, hey, how do I make a career out of
music? And I was playing in bands, but I, you know, and I love playing
in bands. I still do. But I was like, the likelihood
of that, like, landing as a famous musician probably isn't going to happen.
(28:46):
Thanks to dad. For better or for worse, Garden State.
That's a great movie. Another great movie. They're doing, I think the 20th anniversary or
25th anniversary. I think they're playing it somewhere or they're doing this big event at
the Greek. Yeah. With all the bands from the soundtrack, I think. Yeah, I saw
that. My girlfriend was like, we should go. She saw for the. She's from Brazil.
She saw it for the first time, like when we. We started dating, and
(29:08):
she was like, oh, my God, we need to go see this film. And yeah,
I mean, that was like one of the first films that, you know, music supervision,
to me, like, actually was a big part of the
discourse of that film. Like all those Shins tracks and the great
selections. I don't know. I think some TV shows growing up, like the O.C.
and One Tree Hill and kind of like those CW
(29:29):
things, they really had some really great music selections and,
you know, really influenced me at a young age, maybe not knowing that
I would be going down this path. But, you know,
discovering artists, even back then through tv, you
know, was. Was something that I had experienced. And I think it just
shows the power of how music can really come. Through a
(29:52):
visual, you know. Mike, what advice do you have for
someone who is interested in pursuing a career like yours in
music for visual media? What would you tell them? Don't limit
yourself. I think, you know, kind of
experience music in every different way you can possible. I think getting
experience in a studio setting and learning how to talk with artists
(30:14):
and understanding the creative process that they go through
is valuable. I had that in college and in my personal life.
If you're not good at it. I wasn't good at it. Being
kind of a people person. Like, that was not really
me growing up, you know, I wasn't making a Bunch of friends
in a bunch of different places. But I had a couple of roles out of
(30:36):
college working in kind of a sales setting that kind of forced
my hand into that. Right. And confidence in it too.
Like confidence in being able to be like, hey, I can
hold my own and talk about things I know
about, but also let my personality show through and it
not unhinged the conversation. Conversation. Like so
(30:58):
I think kind of like really getting to know yourself
in a personal setting is super
advantageous in my role because a lot of it is networking.
Everybody says that, but it's true. Like you don't get into
video game publisher or you know, a trailer house
trailer without knowing who's doing the
(31:21):
tracks and forming some type of trustworthy relationship
with them. You don't have to be friends like that. You don't have to be
super friendly. You just have to say, hey, listen, I'm gonna answer
your brief respectfully and on point
and if something sticks, you can feel comfortable coming
to me. So it's all about, you know, having somebody
(31:43):
be familiar with you. It's about knowing yourself
and your limits and then knowing your dreams and
your aspirations and just don't really pigeonhole
yourself. Like, don't think just because the band broke up, it's all
over. Or don't think because you never got a record
deal or went viral, like, it's all over. Like there's so many
(32:05):
avenues into the music business that
it'd be foolish to give up after a failure. So
like just keep on keeping on. Mike, what's the best way for people to
reach you? Is it through the website, Is it through socials? Yeah,
yeah, you can hit me up on email. It's just Mike
Jonestreammusic.com Always happy to take a
(32:27):
line, whether it's for licensing or just, hey, I'd like
to grab a coffee or something. And you know, I had no idea I'd end
up here. Like, there's a shot taken on me. So, like, if you're trying
to figure out like how to get your in and,
you know, maybe what you like you can use to leverage,
you know, I'm happy to answer those questions because, you know, I'm from
(32:49):
Ohio and you know, I came out here in California on a dream, but
said, hey, listen, that's probably not going to happen. How else do you make it
work? And then it worked and there's a little bit of luck in there,
but, you know, there's luck is the residue of design. So you have
to actually have a little bit of mindfulness. About what
you're doing. So, yeah, you can hit me up on email. Xtreme has a couple
(33:11):
different socials out there on Instagram. Yeah. Wonderful.
Mike, we want to thank you so much for taking the time to do this.
This has really been wonderful. Thank you. Yeah, thanks, guys. I really appreciate the
opportunity. I enjoy what you guys do, and you ask great questions,
and you guys are music nerds, and I appreciate that. Thank you.
Thank you so much. Great. Thanks.
(33:33):
So interesting. This was a really interesting conversation because, again,
I love the kinds of conversations that we get into, Eric, with people where we
get into very specific areas. This wasn't a music supervision
conversation. This was a conversation about very specific
areas. Right. And I love the detail that he went through. You know, one
of. One of the things that I thought was most interesting was, you know, and
(33:55):
we've talked about this with some of the video game people that we've had, was
how he talked about how the genres that are most in demand
for video games, you know, were electronic music, hybrid,
orchestral stuff that was really in demand and kind of a mix of the
two and how that sound, you know, a little grimy, a little cyber,
cyberpunky. You know, he thought that was a very interesting kind of thing. It's,
(34:17):
in other words, you know, thinking outside the box. It's not just
specific song orientation. And that's what I thought was of real value
to our. To our insiders, is understanding the distinctions in
each of the fields. And the other thing that he said along these lines that
I thought was very important for our listeners to know is understanding the
medium in which you are pitching music for,
(34:39):
Right? Is it film? Is it television? Is it game? You know,
do you understand the world of that? Do you understand the audience? He spoke about
the audience. Really important nuances of it, interestingly enough. Another
area which I thought was very interesting, Ritch, was the idea
of changes in trailer composition. And this goes back to.
It's funny, I kind of think of, like, this has nothing. I mean, it has
(35:00):
something to do with this, but just the evolution of how things evolve. But if
you recall, you're a big movie buff like I am back in the day where,
you know, the movie trailers were like, in a world, you know, they would always
start, like that verbal, verbal community, and then they got away kind of
from that whole thing. Well, he talks about how this has evolved with trailer
composition. And I quote, the other change is kind of
(35:21):
weeding out of, like, the three piece trailer. And he mentions back in the
90s and the early 2000s you'd have a very clear intro piece
and then a break for some type of dramatic effect or establishment of
a relationship, and then finish with, like, kind of a climactic piece.
That's not the case anymore. They're looking for a single drop that covers all
three, which I. And if you. And if you kind of think, if you can
(35:42):
go back and look at, you know, trailers and stuff, you can see exactly
what he's talking about and how they evolve. And that's why I was mentioning the
references of how old trailers have evolved into now. You have a different type of,
you know, sound and feel to it. So I thought, again, this is a really
valuable point of why we're sharing this with you, because this is what he's saying
is in now. And so I thought that was a very interesting tidbit that he
(36:04):
shared. Absolutely. And again, insiders, this goes to. To
the whole element of really doing your homework within
the realm that you want to be a part of. You know, if you want
to get your music used in advertising, you know, like what Eric was just saying,
look at the nuances of advertising. Look at, you know, start watching a lot of
commercials. Start going onto YouTube and watching commercials. There's
(36:25):
no reason today there's nothing that's being kept from you.
This isn't the world where you had to, like, sit in front of your television
for 25 hours and hope you got to see this stuff. It's all available to
you. Start watching it. Start watching trailers. Yeah, start watching, you know,
to the point that you were making, Eric, about how trailers are made. What
is the usage? How are they trying to get your attention? How is
(36:47):
music being used? How is it not being used? You know, who
uses it, all of those elements. Same thing with video games. Do you
know the audience? Are you a player? Do you play the game? You know,
very, very important. It's not just about putting your song into a video game.
It's, is this the right song? Are you the right. You know, are you part
of that audience? Very, very important in understanding. And again,
(37:09):
today, all of that is possible. Hey,
insiders, thanks so much for tuning in to this episode. We really appreciate
it. To get show notes, links, and everything that was mentioned during this
interview, head on over to our official
website at
mubutv.com/podcast/shownotes. If you're enjoying the content and what
we're doing here on the show, please subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts,
(37:32):
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(37:55):
spelled M U B U T V. Don't forget to catch our flagship
show, the MUBUTV Music Business Insider video series
airing every week on YouTube at
YouTube.com/mubutv. This show
was produced and created by Ritch Esra and Eric Knight, theme music
by Disciples of Babylon and be sure to tune in next week for another
(38:15):
episode of the MUBUTV Music Business Insider
Podcast.
On today's podcast, we sit down with leading music supervisor Mike
Jones, who's made his mark in the world of trailers, film,
TV and video games. With music library Extreme Music,
Mike shares insider secrets on the dramatic shift from traditional
orchestral scores to pulse pounding trailerizations of popular
songs, what it really takes to select the perfect track that captures
(00:22):
emotion and drives the story, and how video game soundtracks are
pushing the boundaries of genre and energy. We dive into the
nuances of licensing for global markets, the impacts of
diverse audiences, and the practical side of making it as a music
supervisor. Plus, Mike's top advice for breaking into this
exciting field. If you're looking to understand the future of music
(00:44):
and visual storytelling, you won't want to miss this one.
Insiders, are you ready? Welcome to
MUBUTV's Music Business Insider Podcast where our
mission is to educate, empower and engage artists and music
business professionals who are dedicated to having a successful career in
the new music industry. Here are your hosts, Ritch Esra
(01:06):
and Eric Knight. Welcome back, insiders, to another episode of the
MUBUTV Music Business Insider Podcast, where our mission is
to educate, empower and engage your music career. On today's
episode, we sit down with Mike Jones, renowned music supervisor and
expert in music for film, television trailers and video games.
In this exclusive RAW interview, we explore the massive shifts taking
(01:28):
place in visual storytelling and music, from the rise of trailerized
popular songs and the decline of traditional orchestral scores
to the art of choosing the perfect track that makes every trailer and
promo stand out. Mike shares his insider tips on what it takes to
select or commission music that captivates audiences, what
musical elements are in demand for modern game soundtracks, and how
(01:49):
global streaming platforms are transforming the way music connects with
culturally diverse audiences worldwide. He even gives advice to
aspiring music supervisors and talks about the changing landscape of music
licensing for international markets. If you're wondering how to break into
this world, or you simply want to know the secrets behind making music for
today's most exciting films, shows and games, this episode
(02:11):
is for you. You don't want to miss a single minute. But first, a
word from our sponsor. Hey insiders. Are you an aspiring
musician, artist, band, or future music business professional looking
to take your career to the next level? Well, look no further. At MUBU
tv, we offer personalized career counseling and coaching
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wait? Don't let uncertainty hold you back. Join us for your free 15
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career. That's book.mubutv.com
hi, this is Dave Wallace. A and R from the Mushroom Group and Futures Music
Group. And you're listening to the MUBUTV Music Business Insider
(04:03):
Podcast. Welcome back insiders. Today's featured guest is none
other than Mike Jones from Extreme Music. This is a
Extreme music is a music library that deals with
extreme forms of music. In other words, it's one that really distinguishes
themselves in the market. If you want like extreme forms of heavy
metal, you know, the 10 or 15 different genres of heavy metal that are
(04:26):
outside of the traditional norm of heavy metal, you go to them. If you want,
you know, industrial, that's not traditional, you go to them. If you want
African music, that's not like the regular, you know, stuff that we hear from Africa
or South America, you go to them. That's their whole model. And he
is a music supervisor for them. And this was a very, very interesting
conversation. I mean, he got into a lot of the nuances of his particular
(04:47):
areas, Eric, which I thought were very, very interesting. One of the most interesting,
and this is where you get into like nuances that I think are really
valuable for our insiders of understanding the differences in
music supervision between the different areas. Trailers versus
Promo versus games, right? Versus film versus
tv. Like they each have a different role. And his whole thing about, you
(05:09):
know, looking at the distinctive differences between trailers and promo,
how trailers, they want punchy in your face kinds of
music, whereas promo, you know, often Takes a more pop rock approaches or
allows a lyrical story storytelling element to
drive the the piece. Promos are like those things, you know, tune in Sunday night
for NFL football, you know, and they'll run like a specific piece for like the
(05:31):
promo of the show. Right. And trailers are like, you know, a full on
thing, know the upcoming Marvel movie or the upcoming Brad Pitt film or
whatever it happens to be. And they serve different purposes. Right. And they
have different needs. So I thought that was an interesting distinction. Yeah. Another
interesting point leading with that. What you were saying was what Mike mentioned was
simple, impactful lyrics work best for trailers. Think
(05:53):
memorable one liners rather than long narratives as vocals are
used in short drops. Now this is not to me now to start adjusting your
music for that. If you just happen to have music that fits that, that
narrative, that's what's going to really work well. So again, just another tip that
we want to share with you that we think it would be very valuable. Yeah,
I mean, I think a couple episodes ago we were talking about this very thing
(06:13):
with the upcoming Brad Pitt correct film. The
formula one. They use just the one line, you. Know, never break the
chains and just repeating that droning. Exactly. But that's all. They use
that lyrical element right in your face in a very kind of
specific, you know, oral A U R a L, you know,
kind of way that, that, that it comes across. So yeah, that's an interesting point.
(06:36):
And with that, insiders sit back, relax and enjoy our featured
conversation. Coming to you from Musexpo 2025 with
Mike Jones. Mike, welcome. Thanks,
appreciate it. Thanks for having me here. Absolutely. Thank you for doing the show. You
know, in your experience, is music being used more today
in visual storytelling than in the past? Oh, totally. I think
(06:58):
there's a lot of corresponding features between a video
production and a music production. And I think both artists on either side,
whether it's behind the camera or behind the mixing board, they get
inspired by the other medium. So to work together and
collaborate on those projects and have more
ideas about what the music will be like to video, I think
(07:20):
producers, directors, editors love being a
part of that creative process. Mike, thanks so much for joining us on
the show. I wanted to ask you, you know, over your career in music supervision,
what are the most significant shifts you've seen in music? How
music is selected and used in trailers, promos and other visual media.
And how have these changes impacted the creative process? Yeah, I think I've
(07:43):
seen a few shifts over the years. I think probably the biggest
one is the shift from kind of your traditional
orchestral, whimsical trailer music to
trailerizations of popular songs that over
the last three years has been a huge development
in the industry. I think that's for a couple reasons. I think the
(08:05):
viewers, they love and the editors, they love to mesh lyrics
with the content that's on the screen. So, you know, they want
to be able to tell the story lyrically
as well as visually. And they also have their own music tastes. And
there's. There's so many times where you will see a classic rock
track or a slow ballad track kind of pumped up to be something that brings
(08:28):
a lot of punch and emotion and just kind of a
different take on it. And I think the viewer really, you
know, their ears perk up when they see something like that is. Or hear, pardon
me, hear something like that, as well as, you know, a classic track
that is being used in. In a way that's different
but really appropriate for the visual piece. Yeah,
(08:50):
and I think the other, the other change that I've seen over the years and
it's. It kind of ties in to kind of the coverization,
trailerization of popular commercial songs is
kind of the weeding out of like the three piece trailer. Right. Like a lot
of times, like back in the 90s and the early 2000s,
like you'd have a very clear intro piece and then a break
(09:11):
for some type of dramatic effect or establishment of a
relationship and then finish with like kind of a very climactic piece.
And a lot of times in the industry it was used with three different
tracks. That's not the case anymore. A lot of times they're
looking for a single track, for a single drop that covers all
three. And I think that was, you know, a shift kind of already
(09:33):
happening when I started back in 2015, 2017.
But nowadays it's pretty much out the door as far as
needing three tracks for a spot and just going with one track
that really carries the piece all the way through. You specialize in
music for film and television, particularly in trailers.
Trailers rely on music to instantly capture attention and
(09:55):
evoke emotion. What are some of the key factors you consider
when selecting or commissioning music for them?
Yeah, punchiness, man. If your ears aren't kind of
getting tapped on the side when you start listening to a track,
you know, that's really something that I'm looking for. I'm looking for
dynamics. The ability to start off
(10:18):
strong and then pull back and have that emotive moment or the ability
to start emotively and then really ramp it up. In the chorus.
So, you know, give and take. And there's a lot that artists can do with
that. Whether it's with stems and, you know,
maybe the track itself isn't fully like that, but if you're able to
provide stems, kind of the editors behind the keyboard, behind
(10:40):
the screen are able to really work with those in
a way that will kind of create that feeling. I look for
lyrics, you know, less so
storytelling lyrics. While those are important, you know,
a lot of the success that I see are kind of
simple one liners, you know, that can
(11:02):
be deep, but also on the level, just really straightforward
and can be repeated. You know, there's always a lot of times in
the trailers, not long lengths of vocals,
but little drops, little pockets where those will go in.
Energy is a big thing that I'm always looking for. Whether that's
through percussion and high paced and
(11:24):
cowbell, we need more cowbell. Or you know, whether it's like
an arpeggiated synth underneath where it's just a drone but you kind of
have the wall walk and it's really like kind of keeping up the
pace without being super in your face. But yeah,
energy, punchiness and dynamics I think would be
the top three things that I'm looking for. Mike, I wanted to ask you, since
(11:46):
music choices and trailers are driven by the marketing team's creative
decisions, what other factors make it unique from a musical
perspective? That's a great question.
I think knowing the audience so I deliver a lot of video game
trailers is a big one that I deliver on and those kind of give me
the most creative freedom. Because a lot of times in film
(12:08):
they'll have a big custom
composed track, whether it's back to the trailerization of a
Taylor Swift track or a Kanye track or whatever. And then
a lot of times I'm brought in on the back end to kind of replace
that and find something similar. So on film
there's not too much creative direction. They kind of want something that the original track
(12:30):
was like. In video games you kind of have to know more
of the audience. You kind of have to understand the ethos of the game. Like
Destiny has a very orchestral sound. They have
a lot of electronic elements as well, but it's very like
Triumphant and. And Big and Victorious,
while also kind of being like a little sci fi too. So
(12:52):
kind of really like digging into what the franchise speaks
for. And you know, Riot has a lot of things that they
look for in their trailers. Very specific in their
sonic branding, but also knowing like, where are these pieces going to Air because
they always kind of love a little localization to it as well. So
I think just kind of being mindful of, of the
(13:15):
type of the game where it's aired the bass
and just kind of on their previous projects. And then there's always something I
kind of throw in into my playlist kind of at the end. They're usually about
10 to 12 track songs and maybe the last two
I'll always kind of label as a wild card. Like, I know this isn't the
brief that you've asked for. Right. But in my time
(13:37):
pitching for you all and being fans of the games, I think this could be
a good opportunity to work. And has it worked for you?
Sometimes. I don't know specifically of a single
time that it's worked. I've not been pushed back and be
like, hey, we don't need that much, like, we're good. So I kind of
take it the approach of nobody's told me to stop. So I think
(14:00):
they're appreciative of it. But yeah, I can't think of a
specific time where they've been like, oh my God, yeah, we're
going with this. It was a total left turn. And thank you. You know,
picking up on that, is it ever a challenge for you balancing
the creative aspects of trailer music with the commercial
goals of selling a film, TV show or a video game?
(14:22):
Not really. Because I think, you know,
pitching for trailers are all about bringing excitement and
in drawing people into the product. And, you
know, I love a left turn ad where the music isn't really lining
up. But yeah, I think if you're able to generate excitement
and this, I think maybe where it becomes interesting is when you
(14:45):
evolve into different genres and different type of artists.
I think that's really exciting. Like maybe if you have like a super
exciting jazz track behind something like kind of that
whiplash sound that, that can be punchy.
That's a unique out of the box kind of thought there. And
maybe that goes behind a tech ad and maybe it goes behind a film.
(15:08):
But yeah, I think they're pretty congruent because you're just trying to get the
audience excited about the product. And in that way the
song has to be exciting. Whether it's in, you know, the pace of the song
or the uniqueness of a song and then venturing into
different genres is as long as it sounds good,
like it's really hard to miss, you know what I mean? Like, if
(15:30):
it's, if it sounds great and it's a, you
know, bossa nova Track, who cares? It just
sounds so good. Music is good. Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally.
You know, Mike, you also work a lot in promo,
and what are the creative distinctions between music for promos and
trailers? That's a really good question. I think. I think on
(15:51):
that end, it's definitely genre. You know,
you see a lot more promo taking kind of the pop.
Like a true pop track, a true rock track, is a little bit more
accepted in promo work, rather than like a film trailer
and have that lead the promo, you know what I mean? Lyrically,
I think, is big, and that can be, you know, that can be a
(16:14):
little bit more storytelling on that side, and you can
kind of, you know, lead in on that a little bit more and have a
bit of a longer lyrical line in that. Otherwise, I
think just kind of on the basics, they're less punchy. Like, rather than
finding a truly punchy track, I'm just trying to look for something that's, like,
soaring and anthemic and can kind
(16:37):
of like, raise. Raise the person, uplift them.
Uplift is always like, a touchy word in there, but just something
that builds maybe a bit of At a slower pace. I think trailers are a
lot more in your face and sudden, and
promos are a bit more of a slow burn. Hey, insiders, we hope that you've
been enjoying our featured conversation. Stay tuned because we've got so
(16:59):
much value coming your way. But before we dive back in, a word from
our sponsor. Hey, Eric, as an artist, what do you find are the most challenging
aspects to a music career, especially when you're starting out?
Well, I think one of the first things is just trying to get the direction
of who you are as an artist, where you want to go, where you want
to be. And, you know, we've talked about it on the show a lot. Who
is your target audience, who you are, Who. What do you stand for?
(17:23):
What do you believe in? What do you think would resonate with an audience? And
so those are some of the things that I would feel being a new artist.
Obviously, what I know now is different because I know these things, but for people
that are out there, like our audience, that don't have necessarily any direction
to go, would be the first things that I would start off with. And having
the songs incorporate those elements that you're speaking
(17:43):
of into it, that's so important today. Yeah. And I think that's one of the
reasons why we started MUBUTV and why we started this new consulting service that
we're offering to all of our insiders out There, because that is another one of
the big things. I mean, that is the big thing is like having the great
songs. That's what it really starts off. Our friend Don Grierson always said
it always starts with a great song. So that's probably. Besides putting
(18:05):
together what your audience and what your target audience is, is the single
most important thing. Where are your songs at currently today? Are you
collaborating with people? Are you trying to go out to networking events where you
can connect with other songwriters and stuff like that? So yeah. And what are your
strengths exactly? You know, are you a strong lyric writer?
Are you a strong melody writer? Are you a strong musician, A player.
(18:27):
Right. You know, and it's really important to get really strong clarity
on those issues before proceeding. I totally agree, Ritch. And you
know, with our consulting services, we offer a myriad of different packages
that we've made it super affordable for everybody. So, you know, if you guys are
interested out there and connecting with us on a coaching call, you can
visit book.moobutv.com and start off with a
(18:49):
free 15 minute discovery call. Well, yeah, absolutely. That we start
with an initial 15 minute call where we can get a sense of who you
are, what are the issues that you specifically have and want to
work on. Exactly. And we can go from there. Absolutely. Yeah. And we
tailor everything to your needs. It's not like a cookie cutter thing. We kind of
really want to get to know who you are as an artist, where you at
(19:10):
today, what's the snapshot of you as an artist today, and then
start trying to craft something that's tailor made for you. So again, if you're
interested, Visit us at book.moobootv.com for your
15 minute discovery call. Hi, this is Mark Sutherland, the host
of the Money Trench music industry podcast. Are you an insider?
I am. Subscribe now. Yeah, you just took the words right out of my
(19:33):
mouth. I was just thinking in your face as you were saying it. It was
interesting. Yeah. So also, Mike, I'm curious, what
genres or styles are most in demand for
game soundtracks? Oh, man. I mean, electronic
music, I wouldn't go hard on, like, it's edm,
but like hybrid orchestral stuff
(19:54):
is really in demand. Kind of a mix of the two things that
kind of sound a little grimy, like in a little cyber,
you know, cyberpunky, I think is really popular right now.
You know, we've kind of left the world of majestical,
you know, trailer sounds for games. It's much less
that even like a World of Warcraft could have something That's a lot
(20:17):
more, you know, edgy and a lot more like, you
know, distorted and intense and less so. Kind of
flutes and fiddles and kind of like the
adventure, whimsical adventure is not as common
anymore. And it's kind of more again in your face,
punchy. Just really trying to bring that player in and say
(20:40):
this is a super exciting game, not only to watch or to
play, but to watch. Now that's another big part of games
that's really new. So they're not doing marketing just for
people to play the games, they're doing marketing for them to watch them
as well. Mike, I have of a ton two parter for you. Who are the
decision makers in the world of video games? Is it the game
(21:02):
developers, music, music supervisors or other sources? It's a little bit
of all three, you know, like in game, you know, when a
game starts they're gonna have a little bit like of a less team. So
unless they have a music supervisor to start, those devs are gonna be producing
the game and dropping the music in them themselves.
And from my understanding now, I'm no coder or game creator or anything
(21:26):
like that, but kind of once you got a drop in the original game,
it's not getting taken out because for them to take that track out,
they're gonna have to rewrite that code, right? So on some of the indies
and some of the early development stuff, it really is on the
developer side, then a music supervisor could come in
and kind of like lead that team in a certain way.
(21:48):
I think a lot of times those music supervisors, they bring
kind of knowledge on where to, to get the music, where to get good quality
music, how to get the track cleared and all that,
like very easily. But as far as them
really dropping it into the game, I don't think they have like
a huge part in that process. That probably
(22:10):
ends up more on an audio director or a mix
engineer side. And I feel a lot of times those are kind of given
to them, you know, once they drop them in. What
challenges do you face when licensing music for video games? I mean,
for instance, with trailers or video games that are intended for international
markets, are there any specific challenges in licensing music for global
(22:32):
rights or is that not an issue today? Well, I feel
like there's two different questions there. So kind of the first, the one
that's hard for video games I think does kind of go back
to once there's music already in there, it's not really coming out.
So unless you kind of have a big shift in the development,
it may be hard to find a door to get in. However, I
(22:54):
will say that some of the newer games is kind of a sports
game or the apps where the develops the code's
like a little less intrinsic. Each new season will have new music
that comes out. You get a new season of FIFA or a new download of
FIFA. Like EA has the ability to. To, from my
understanding, to add tracks in there, the fly on
(23:16):
the fly. Wow. So something comes out that
they're really feeling or generating toward and they say this needs to be in the
game. It's my understanding that they can just kind of, you know, get it in
there, which is really exciting for artists. It's really
exciting for music supervisors. Like, that team has
probably got one of the best jobs in the world, just being able to. To
(23:37):
listen to thumb through so many new releases and
really like be a tastemaker for a lot of people. Like that FIFA
game is really renowned, you know, in
distribution. No, typically in my role, I'll
distribute worldwide. And you know, that's extreme.
That's. Pardon me, that is unique to extreme because
(23:59):
we, you know, we're one stop. We clear like a one
stop. And so we have a lot of
autonomy to be able to say this can go into a certain
territory and not. I think synchronization rights can be a
little bit different in that because just because
there's synchronization rights in one territory doesn't mean that it goes to another.
(24:20):
So that can be tough on the user's end, right. Of knowing.
Knowing that those kinds of ins and outs. But kind of from my
perspective, when I'm licensing, you know, I have the beauty
of having approvals from the artists, you know,
having the sync and the master all tied up and just being able to go
forward with, you know, however the client music suit, you know,
(24:42):
producer, editor wants to move forward with it, you know.
Mike, with the rise of global streaming platforms and international
programming, how has the need to appeal to a broader and
more culturally different, diverse audiences influence your approach to music
supervision? Are there specific trends or musical elements that
resonate across different markets? Yeah, there's definitely
(25:04):
trends. I think a lot of times it's. We want something local, we want
something organic to our territory. And
I love that. I think it, you know, at extreme, we.
We really had latched onto that from an early
time. You know, before my time, we paid somebody,
we paid a group of people to fly around the entire world
(25:26):
and record organic recordings from those locations. Like
that's what we paid somebody to do. We didn't say, how do we make,
you know, an Irish song here in the States? How do we make,
you know, an African song here? Like, no, let's fly to South
Africa, let's fly to Ireland. You know, we went to these different
territories, got musicians from those communities
(25:49):
to perform on a record and we released it and we call it Passport.
Those tracks still slap like, they're really easy for me to pitch, especially when it
gets granular. And we really want a track from this area. We can do that
with those albums. We have a label on Extreme called Life
that was supplied to us from Peter Gabriel. And it's
just recordings that he's done throughout the world. And
(26:12):
they're beautiful, they sound amazing. They're not trailerized,
but we have the sound design, the stings, the hits to kind of punch those
up. But to be able to say that we not only have it from Peter
Gabriel, but like these authentic recordings from around the world and they sound
great, it's just an amazing advantage to
have when a producer and editor is looking for something
(26:34):
super organic to the territory that they going to be marketing in.
Mike, throughout your life, have there been any books or films or
documentaries that have been particularly inspiring to you,
professionally speaking, that you could recommend? Hmm,
I wish I was more well read. You know what, I'm going to talk about
a book called Desert Solitaire. It has nothing to do with music,
(26:56):
but it has a lot to do with listening to yourself
and listening to what you need and observing that
around. And it's, you know, the quick thing is this guy went out
to the Arches national park and you know, just
needed some time away from people. And he really, you know, looked at
internally and I think in the creative, in a creative
(27:17):
career we need points like that of how
are we doing, where do we go? What's like, are we at least happy? Are
we happy with what we're doing? And I think a lot of times
you can get value from that. So it's not a music book, but it's great
book, film wise, Low Hanging Fruit, Almost
Famous. Absolutely love that movie. You know, I went to
(27:40):
college, I wanted to be a journalist and I wanted to write about music.
And long story short, I filled out the wrong bubble on
my college application and got denied from journalism school
there. So my college counselor was like, hey man, that's
cool. You'll be able to get in, just fill out a major in that
college and then in the spring semester or whatever, you can
(28:02):
apply. So I'm like going down the sheet. I didn't go very far.
Audio production, it was apparently a major. I was like, oh, that
sounds cool. Let me try that out. And then I got into my
first class, and they're talking about being in the studio and recording bands and
playing with their new neve console that they just got. And I said, I can
really do a major, like recording bands. Like, that's an
(28:24):
actual thing. Journalism went out the door real quick
after that. So, you know, Almost Famous kind of got me on
this. Of like, hey, how do I make a career out of
music? And I was playing in bands, but I, you know, and I love playing
in bands. I still do. But I was like, the likelihood
of that, like, landing as a famous musician probably isn't going to happen.
(28:46):
Thanks to dad. For better or for worse, Garden State.
That's a great movie. Another great movie. They're doing, I think the 20th anniversary or
25th anniversary. I think they're playing it somewhere or they're doing this big event at
the Greek. Yeah. With all the bands from the soundtrack, I think. Yeah, I saw
that. My girlfriend was like, we should go. She saw for the. She's from Brazil.
She saw it for the first time, like when we. We started dating, and
(29:08):
she was like, oh, my God, we need to go see this film. And yeah,
I mean, that was like one of the first films that, you know, music supervision,
to me, like, actually was a big part of the
discourse of that film. Like all those Shins tracks and the great
selections. I don't know. I think some TV shows growing up, like the O.C.
and One Tree Hill and kind of like those CW
(29:29):
things, they really had some really great music selections and,
you know, really influenced me at a young age, maybe not knowing that
I would be going down this path. But, you know,
discovering artists, even back then through tv, you
know, was. Was something that I had experienced. And I think it just
shows the power of how music can really come. Through a
(29:52):
visual, you know. Mike, what advice do you have for
someone who is interested in pursuing a career like yours in
music for visual media? What would you tell them? Don't limit
yourself. I think, you know, kind of
experience music in every different way you can possible. I think getting
experience in a studio setting and learning how to talk with artists
(30:14):
and understanding the creative process that they go through
is valuable. I had that in college and in my personal life.
If you're not good at it. I wasn't good at it. Being
kind of a people person. Like, that was not really
me growing up, you know, I wasn't making a Bunch of friends
in a bunch of different places. But I had a couple of roles out of
(30:36):
college working in kind of a sales setting that kind of forced
my hand into that. Right. And confidence in it too.
Like confidence in being able to be like, hey, I can
hold my own and talk about things I know
about, but also let my personality show through and it
not unhinged the conversation. Conversation. Like so
(30:58):
I think kind of like really getting to know yourself
in a personal setting is super
advantageous in my role because a lot of it is networking.
Everybody says that, but it's true. Like you don't get into
video game publisher or you know, a trailer house
trailer without knowing who's doing the
(31:21):
tracks and forming some type of trustworthy relationship
with them. You don't have to be friends like that. You don't have to be
super friendly. You just have to say, hey, listen, I'm gonna answer
your brief respectfully and on point
and if something sticks, you can feel comfortable coming
to me. So it's all about, you know, having somebody
(31:43):
be familiar with you. It's about knowing yourself
and your limits and then knowing your dreams and
your aspirations and just don't really pigeonhole
yourself. Like, don't think just because the band broke up, it's all
over. Or don't think because you never got a record
deal or went viral, like, it's all over. Like there's so many
(32:05):
avenues into the music business that
it'd be foolish to give up after a failure. So
like just keep on keeping on. Mike, what's the best way for people to
reach you? Is it through the website, Is it through socials? Yeah,
yeah, you can hit me up on email. It's just Mike
Jonestreammusic.com Always happy to take a
(32:27):
line, whether it's for licensing or just, hey, I'd like
to grab a coffee or something. And you know, I had no idea I'd end
up here. Like, there's a shot taken on me. So, like, if you're trying
to figure out like how to get your in and,
you know, maybe what you like you can use to leverage,
you know, I'm happy to answer those questions because, you know, I'm from
(32:49):
Ohio and you know, I came out here in California on a dream, but
said, hey, listen, that's probably not going to happen. How else do you make it
work? And then it worked and there's a little bit of luck in there,
but, you know, there's luck is the residue of design. So you have
to actually have a little bit of mindfulness. About what
you're doing. So, yeah, you can hit me up on email. Xtreme has a couple
(33:11):
different socials out there on Instagram. Yeah. Wonderful.
Mike, we want to thank you so much for taking the time to do this.
This has really been wonderful. Thank you. Yeah, thanks, guys. I really appreciate the
opportunity. I enjoy what you guys do, and you ask great questions,
and you guys are music nerds, and I appreciate that. Thank you.
Thank you so much. Great. Thanks.
(33:33):
So interesting. This was a really interesting conversation because, again,
I love the kinds of conversations that we get into, Eric, with people where we
get into very specific areas. This wasn't a music supervision
conversation. This was a conversation about very specific
areas. Right. And I love the detail that he went through. You know, one
of. One of the things that I thought was most interesting was, you know, and
(33:55):
we've talked about this with some of the video game people that we've had, was
how he talked about how the genres that are most in demand
for video games, you know, were electronic music, hybrid,
orchestral stuff that was really in demand and kind of a mix of the
two and how that sound, you know, a little grimy, a little cyber,
cyberpunky. You know, he thought that was a very interesting kind of thing. It's,
(34:17):
in other words, you know, thinking outside the box. It's not just
specific song orientation. And that's what I thought was of real value
to our. To our insiders, is understanding the distinctions in
each of the fields. And the other thing that he said along these lines that
I thought was very important for our listeners to know is understanding the
medium in which you are pitching music for,
(34:39):
Right? Is it film? Is it television? Is it game? You know,
do you understand the world of that? Do you understand the audience? He spoke about
the audience. Really important nuances of it, interestingly enough. Another
area which I thought was very interesting, Ritch, was the idea
of changes in trailer composition. And this goes back to.
It's funny, I kind of think of, like, this has nothing. I mean, it has
(35:00):
something to do with this, but just the evolution of how things evolve. But if
you recall, you're a big movie buff like I am back in the day where,
you know, the movie trailers were like, in a world, you know, they would always
start, like that verbal, verbal community, and then they got away kind of
from that whole thing. Well, he talks about how this has evolved with trailer
composition. And I quote, the other change is kind of
(35:21):
weeding out of, like, the three piece trailer. And he mentions back in the
90s and the early 2000s you'd have a very clear intro piece
and then a break for some type of dramatic effect or establishment of
a relationship, and then finish with, like, kind of a climactic piece.
That's not the case anymore. They're looking for a single drop that covers all
three, which I. And if you. And if you kind of think, if you can
(35:42):
go back and look at, you know, trailers and stuff, you can see exactly
what he's talking about and how they evolve. And that's why I was mentioning the
references of how old trailers have evolved into now. You have a different type of,
you know, sound and feel to it. So I thought, again, this is a really
valuable point of why we're sharing this with you, because this is what he's saying
is in now. And so I thought that was a very interesting tidbit that he
(36:04):
shared. Absolutely. And again, insiders, this goes to. To
the whole element of really doing your homework within
the realm that you want to be a part of. You know, if you want
to get your music used in advertising, you know, like what Eric was just saying,
look at the nuances of advertising. Look at, you know, start watching a lot of
commercials. Start going onto YouTube and watching commercials. There's
(36:25):
no reason today there's nothing that's being kept from you.
This isn't the world where you had to, like, sit in front of your television
for 25 hours and hope you got to see this stuff. It's all available to
you. Start watching it. Start watching trailers. Yeah, start watching, you know,
to the point that you were making, Eric, about how trailers are made. What
is the usage? How are they trying to get your attention? How is
(36:47):
music being used? How is it not being used? You know, who
uses it, all of those elements. Same thing with video games. Do you
know the audience? Are you a player? Do you play the game? You know,
very, very important. It's not just about putting your song into a video game.
It's, is this the right song? Are you the right. You know, are you part
of that audience? Very, very important in understanding. And again,
(37:09):
today, all of that is possible. Hey,
insiders, thanks so much for tuning in to this episode. We really appreciate
it. To get show notes, links, and everything that was mentioned during this
interview, head on over to our official
website at
mubutv.com/podcast/shownotes. If you're enjoying the content and what
we're doing here on the show, please subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts,
(37:32):
Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts from. And don't forget to rate
and review our show at iTunes. Five star reviews are always welcome
and help to ensure that our podcast stands out on the top rated and
new and noteworthy charts on itunes and our space. You can also
find us at social Media at Facebook, Instagram, TikTok
and Twitter X, all ending with the handle mubutv, which is
(37:55):
spelled M U B U T V. Don't forget to catch our flagship
show, the MUBUTV Music Business Insider video series
airing every week on YouTube at
YouTube.com/mubutv. This show
was produced and created by Ritch Esra and Eric Knight, theme music
by Disciples of Babylon and be sure to tune in next week for another
(38:15):
episode of the MUBUTV Music Business Insider
Podcast.
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