Inside the Secret World of Sync: How Top Brands Really Pick Music With Jessica Entner From Warner Chappell Music

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
On today's podcast, we sit down with the dynamic Jessica Entner, who
has navigated both independent and major label worlds. Jessica
shares her extraordinary journey from a songwriter to a leading voice in
sync. At Warner Chappell, we dive into the game of Chutes and Ladders that
helped shaped her career, unveil her insights on the emotional power of
sync in advertising, and explore her strategies for breaking new

(00:22):
artists. This conversation is filled with invaluable lessons for
aspiring industry insiders. You won't want to miss it. It's
Insiders Are you ready? Welcome to
MUBUTV's Music Business Insider Podcast where our mission
is to educate, empower and engage artists and music
business professionals who are dedicated to having a successful career in the

(00:44):
new music industry. Here are your hosts, Rich Ezra and
Eric Knight. Welcome back, insiders, to another episode of the
MUBUTV Music Business Insider Podcast where our
mission is to educate, empower and engage your music
career. Today we have a very special guest joining us, Jessica
Entner. A seasoned professional in sync and music publishing,

(01:06):
Jessica has navigated her career like a game of shoots and ladders,
reflecting on her evolving role from being a songwriter to working with major
publishers like Warner Chappell. In this episode, she shares incredible
insights into the differences between indie and major publisher sync
approaches, the importance of relationships in successful sync
placements, and how to navigate the challenges that arise in the fast

(01:28):
paced world of advertising. Discover how iterations and being
open to unexpected opportunities can shape your career
and learn about the emotional impact of a sink that goes
beyond just financial gain. Jessica also opens
up about the biggest misconceptions artists have about the sync
industry and the critical importance of timing and relationship

(01:50):
building. She even touches on her newly alerted discernment and the
value of soft skills in the industry. You won't want to miss
this content packed episode, but first, a word from our
sponsor. Hey insiders. Are you an aspiring musician, artist,
band or future music business professional looking to take your career to the
next level? Well, look no further. At MUBUTV we offer

(02:12):
personalized career counseling and coaching designed specifically
for folks like you. Imagine having both of us by your side, guiding you
through every step of your music journey. Our sessions are tailored to meet your
unique needs, focusing on critical aspects of your music career such
as refining your songs, defining your artist story, identifying your
target audience, and enhancing your social media presence, just to name

(02:34):
a few. Whether you're just starting out or looking to elevate your existing
career, we've got you covered. Our comprehensive approach ensures
you get insights on everything from live shows to branding
and marketing strategies. We understand that every artist is
unique. That's why our coaching is personalized just for you.
And here's the best part. We offer flexible coaching packages that fit any

(02:57):
budget. Choose from individual sessions ranging from 30 to 90 minutes or
save with our discounted four session packages. Experience custom
sessions designed to enhance your music career with opportunities for greater
savings. When you choose bundled sessions, investing in your musical
journey has never been more accessible. Imagine the clarity
and direction you'll gain after just one session. The feedback

(03:19):
on your songs, the strategies to grow your audience, and the confidence
to perform live. All tailored just for you. So why
wait? Don't let uncertainty hold you back. Join us for your free 15
minute discovery. Call@book.mubutv.com
for a transformative coaching experience that will elevate your music
career. That's
book.mubutv.com

(03:42):
hi, this is music attorney. Alexis Schreiber and Briana Schwartz of the law
firm Schwartz and Schreiber. And you're listening to the MUBUTV Music
Business Insider Podcast. Welcome back, insiders. Today's
featured guest is vice president of SYNC at Warner Chappell Music,
Jessica Entner. This was a very, very interesting conversation
in regards to sync because we really got, I guess, an insight into

(04:05):
the journey of someone who has been in this world.
And what I loved about this conversation, Eric, was that she went
into a lot of the nuances, which I think, you know, ladies and
gentlemen, you're going to get of understanding what makes
the world of sync work. It's not all
about finding a place for your music in their world.

(04:27):
It works in very, very subtle ways. And I thought one of the most
fascinating and important things that Jessica talked
about was the navigating of the relationship
between advertising and music. She talked about the complexity
and the necessary relationship maneuvers between like, the
creative people and the, the advertising people and how

(04:49):
those relationships need to be massaged, they need to be developed.
It's not just about, you know, here, listen to this. Right. That's what I
thought was work because that's what makes Jessica so successful. She has worked
in that world a long time and understands those aspects of the
relationship. Yeah. And I also thought that one of the other areas,
and this one I can speak to just from personal experience, is saying

(05:11):
yes to opportunities. Jessica emphasizes the
importance of being open to various opportunities which can lead to
unexpected career paths and growth. And one of the examples
that I always use is in my own life, when I was working at Universal
for a while, they had Approached me about, you know, they knew
I was a musician, and they had approached me about, hey, how would you

(05:33):
feel about putting a band together and assembling a band around one of our
artists? Now, I never would have thought that I would have been doing that. It
was almost like playing the role of the late, great Barry Squire, where I had
to put this whole band together and for this artist that's like an
internationally known artist. And I just said, you know what? Let me say
yes. Because initially, when I got hired at Universal, I'll never forget,

(05:55):
it wasn't in the area that I wanted to be at. I wanted to be
on the Anglo side, if you recall. Rich, you and I have talked about this
story many times in private, and I was kind of, like, bummed. I
was like, man, I didn't want to be in this part of the business. Not
because I was ashamed of it or anything, because I'm Latino, but it was just
not the area I wanted to be. So I was already kind of, like, being
very resistant to doing it. And I remember my

(06:18):
father, of all people, just saying, well, you know what? Just stick with it.
Just try it out and just see how it goes. And one day led
to the next and led to the next. And in that job,
so many opportunities had opened up for me. Had I said
no, that they would have never happened. That's right. Ended up working with the
guys from Maroon 5, which we recently had. Ryan Dusick on the show, working

(06:41):
with Rihanna, Mariah Carey, all these really big acts that
were at the time, you know, at some of these events that I was doing,
and all of these opportunities, and then again, getting the opportunity of putting those bands
together. And then I started to do that on a regular basis, not only for
them, but for Sodi and Axon Warner. And it was
just an interesting thing how it opened up so many doors. So

(07:02):
for anybody out there that's listening, please, you need to say yes, even
if it's something that you feel like you can't do, because at first you get
overwhelmed. Can I actually do this? Well, you got to just put your feet to
the fire and try it, because you'll never know what will happen. And so
many doors open for me because of that job to this day,
that it's been incredible. Absolutely. I think my own career reflects that.

(07:24):
I started my career as an intern. Right. I mean, I had one job
in the music business before that, but that was only for, like, a week or
so, but as an intern at A and M. And that internship
led to Me being hired at Arista. So like you said,
Eric, you never know where the opportunities and we're
saying yes in life will lead you to and the opportunities and the things

(07:46):
that it will open for you. Definitely. And with that, insiders sit
back, relax, and enjoy our featured conversation with
Jessica Entner. Jessica, welcome. Thank
you. Happy to be here. Thank you. We're so happy that you're here
and really looking forward to this conversation. I want to dive right in.
You have referred to your own career path as

(08:08):
like a game of Chutes and Ladders. I'm curious,
what did you learn from your time in music as a performing
artist? And looking back, are there any pivotal moments
or specific risks that you took that you feel
led to where you are today in your sync career? You know, that is
a very good question and a lot of answers to it. I do feel

(08:30):
like I've lived quite a few lives when it comes to the music
industry. Being raised around it and
then becoming a songwriter and then working behind
the scenes with composers and sync, I've
learned a lot. And the one thing that I
think is prevalent through all of it is

(08:52):
I've never said no to any opportunity that has
arisen. I've kind of. I never had, like, a clear path. You
know, some people have a real this is what I want to do with my
life. This is how I want to get there. These are the steps I think
I need to take in order to get there. I never had that. I just
kind of, as I said, shoot some ladders. It's like, oh, well, let's try this.

(09:13):
We'll go down here and see where this goes. Because I had an opportunity that
came about, and I think when it comes to the music industry, that
is kind of how people sometimes fall into it. It's like they
start working with a friend who has a band, and now all of a sudden,
they're a manager. And now they're in the music. Now they're an A and R
person at a major label. So there's all these different paths and ways

(09:34):
to get there. And then there's other people I know who were like, I'm going
to get into the music industry. This is my career path. And they've known
since they were 15. You know, Mike Karen comes to mind. When I think about
that, I was the opposite. I just kind of skittered about until
I realized I had had this extensive career. Honestly, I
don't think it's until this decade that I actually

(09:56):
appreciated my path and all of the things that I've been able to
do within the music industry. I think I've had a really
privileged opportunity path for sure. That's really
wonderful. Jessica, this is Eric. And so glad to have you on the show. I
wanted to ask you, you know, you've had a career that spanned both the
independent and major label worlds. How would you compare the approach

(10:18):
to sync between smaller indie companies and a major
entity like Warner Chappell? What advantages or challenges have you
found in each environment? Oh, that is a really good question. And I
actually have an answer for this. My. My path was actually
more in advertising. I would actually think I was. I keep saying actually,
so excuse me. I don't know why. I think my kid's been saying it a

(10:40):
lot. I was in. Involved in the advertising
side of music. So my first real foray into the
business world was with Elias Music. I worked under Jonathan
Elias when Elias was probably at the top of their game.
They've since been bought by Universal, but we were an original
composition music house because when I fell into the business, bands

(11:02):
weren't looking to license their music to brands because of the
sellout factor. And we're talking like late 90s, early 2000s. It wasn't
until like the mid 2000s when branding opportunities really
presented themselves where people felt comfortable attaching their music to
a commercial. So for a long time it was, hey, we really like this song.
Can you guys do something similar or has the same tempo? So I worked in

(11:24):
that world with composers. That was kind of how I started. And in that world,
it's. It's run like a family. It was, you know, the. The largest
company within the music house advertising scene that I worked for
was a global music company called Massive Music. And globally
we had maybe a hundred people, but within our offices, our US
offices, we had under 10. It's very different. You are.

(11:46):
You learn how to be a Jack of all trades, or Jill of all trades,
if you will, and multitask and learn
on the fly. So I would possibly be working on five
different projects at a time of various degrees of difficulty.
One might be a cover of a known song, and we're getting the
licensing and the clearance on it and composing a new cover and a new

(12:08):
master with whether it's a composer of ours or not. I might also
be music supervising a project where I'm pulling music from not only our
library, but major labels and whatnot. So I've had to kind
of be a Swiss army knife and, you know, learn how to do
billing and, you know, be the one that orders the
Costco. And then when you go into a major. I actually equated it

(12:30):
to the difference between the public sector and the private sector.
Right. When you go to a major corporation, there's much more
red tape. There's a lot more bureaucracy in some ways that you just
don't have the same guardrails. In a small company, like, most of the
companies I worked for never had an HR department, so that was new. Like,
oh, there's an actual dedicated people person. There's. When you

(12:52):
work in a small company, titles are not as. They're just not. They're
kind of like, you know, who owns the company and then everyone else is just
trying to make it go. So there's a lot more like level set
than I think at a corporation. So there's just those types of
differences. But on the flip side, I also really like that instead
of having to do all the things, I can kind of focus

(13:14):
on two of the things, which is the first time I've ever
had work life balance, to be honest. So does that answer that
question? Absolutely, it does.
And, you know, reflecting back, it's interesting. In the
past, you've mentioned being energized by the creative
dialogues that you foster with advertising partners. My question

(13:36):
is, how do you approach these conversations and what do you think is
essential in creating a meaningful collaboration between the world of advertising,
advertising and the music industry? There's a huge
divide. I have Learned through the 25 years that I've been in this
industry that everyone is really good at what they
do, but they don't necessarily know what other people do.

(13:58):
And I think, for whatever reason, the music industry, I
think, believes that everyone understands the components to it. And
it's very convoluted. I mean, I go into advertising agencies
sometimes and I just start with the basics and I describe what a
master is versus what the publishing is. So one of the ways I
describe it, and if you don't mind me describing it for some of your listeners,

(14:20):
is the movie is the script. The script is the
song. That's one component. The version of that
movie, like the first version of Goonies, will always be. The first version of
Goonies is the master. That's the master recording of
a known song. So you have these two components to it. A lot of people
don't even realize that that's part of the game. And then you throw in the

(14:43):
other aspect of. And also, there could be six
songwriters on this one song. And if we don't get approval from that one guy
who has 25%, we can't do this deal. So there's a lot
of education. I've worked on so many
jobs where a company has tried to license a
really big song without realizing that that artist might

(15:04):
not ever license to commercials and. Or it's
so far out of their budget they shouldn't even ask. Like situations where you
can kind of help guide. And that's always where I've tried to place myself. I've
tried to place myself in a way where people can ask me the stupid questions,
because none of the questions are stupid. And there's a lot to learn when you
marry brands with an artist or a song.

(15:26):
You know, there's a lot. Or put it in a commercial, you know, there's a
lot of different levels to it, and a lot of different people have to sign
off on it. And it's a process. And if you're not talking to the right
people within that process, the process becomes extra
long. Like, if you're trying to hire
an artist to do something, the

(15:46):
conversation you really want to have is with the management. So how do
you get to the management? What's the path of least resistance? And that's kind of
where I try to place myself so that I can
be a solution person for them. And that's how you
gain trust. And that's relationship building, so that when there is a
bigger project that arises, you can be at the beginning of

(16:09):
the conversation. And that's really all it is. I mean, that's business development,
right? You're just trying to make the right connections with the right
people, have the conversations at the right time, be a
solution when you can be a solution. Because that's really what people are looking
for, especially in advertising. You know, they're dealing with
major brands, major client requests,

(16:32):
and there's 14,000 chefs in the kitchen all
screaming different things. You know, you have to learn how to
navigate that. And I've had friends who
are on the film and TV side, which is a. Is a. Is a
avenue I've always actually would have liked to have been
in. But I realized that working with clients in

(16:54):
the commercial space is such a skill. I mean, I have friends that have been
like, I don't even understand their process, because in film,
it's very slow, right? You can put a song in a. In
a cut of a movie, and that movie doesn't go to market for another year.
With ads, you sometimes have three weeks to make something happen.
Very different. That's so interesting, Jessica, because, you know,

(17:16):
having come from the world of advertising, as you have you know, even in
situations where everybody knows, you know, they're, they're aware
of song and master and payments and all of that, you brought up something
that I did not want to gloss over, which is that there are still, you
know, literally sometimes 5, 6, 7, 8,
maybe more people who are involved in the

(17:38):
decision of what music or what song to use. So
your skills as a, you know, music person in that particular
position become vital. Which is, as you pointed out,
totally different from film where it's, you know, a music supervisor and the director,
that's the ultimate authority. They don't have to go to nine different people, you know,
involved in, you know, what is the director going to do or not do. And

(18:00):
in television it's kind of similar where it's, you know, the executive
producer. But when you get into like the world you're talking about, and
that's something that I think people listening to this really
need to understand is, you know, the scope of
people and I guess cooks in the kitchen, as you put it, that are involved
in those decisions. Oh yeah. I mean, I've been.

(18:22):
I wish I was kidding. I can tell you a pretty funny story. I can't
remember what we were working on, but it was a major client, major. It was
an airline and I was eight months
pregnant. And I get a phone call Saturday night at
like 11 o'clock from the producer and she says we have to do an
emergency session tomorrow, it's Sunday and I

(18:42):
need you to be there at 8 o'clock in the morning. And
so now I have to call my creative director. Now I have to make sure
that the composer who is not in LA is available to
do a basically like a fly in, not a fly in session where he
has to fly in, but like a lots of conference calls and back and
forth and sending and listening and all that stuff. And the whole

(19:04):
reason that this got pulled together was because somebody's
12 year old niece didn't like the song and wanted it
to sound more like something else. Yeah. And I, I swear to
God it was at that moment because
when you're in those situations as a small company, you're like, oh my God, I
feel like my client's taking advantage. But listening to the agency deal with

(19:26):
their clients, I had so much sympathy for what
their day to day is because it really does come down to,
you know, they're putting all this creativity into making a marketing
plan and a campaign work for a major brand. And the major brand
has multiple different levels, but they're in marketing, so they're looking at
different things than what a creative would look like. So it's almost like if there's

(19:49):
a way to condense the process
where people are working together more closely earlier
on. And that's the dream, Right? You want to get ahead of everything. And in
advertising, there really is no way to get ahead of anything
when people are constantly changing their mind. And that is
really what the biggest, like, roadblock is, I think,

(20:11):
when you're working on projects that have a lot of different subjectivity
to it, whether it's the color of a commercial.
Because I've been in those sessions too, where somebody is like, it's too green. And
the other person's like, no, it feels too warm. And you're like, oh, my God,
how did they get anything done? But they do, and it all comes together, and
it's amazing. But, like, I know people that are still fully

(20:32):
immersed in super bowl edit. They're still editing. It's the Super Bowls in
a week. You know what I mean? It's not done. They are dialing it
in up until the 11th hour. Absolutely. And it's.
I'm not gonna lie. I think I. I think I like working like that sometimes
because the slower pace of working in
one lane in a much more. A much

(20:55):
larger environment, I'm a doer. So, like, I. I
miss juggling those types of projects. So I kind of do insert myself when
I can to have those creative conversations, too. Yeah,
exactly. I mean, I. I've spoken to a lot of supervisors in. In film, and
they talk about that old creative adage, in film, there's the film
that's written, there's the film that's shot, and then there's the film that's

(21:17):
edited. And they talk about, you know, music supervision that there's a lot of
times when songs are cleared, they're put into the
film, they make the film, and then in the final edit that
they get cut out, and it's like, you know,
you literally don't know that until. Until, I guess, you do your
final edit. So it is interesting, I always say. And it's

(21:40):
such an old adage, too, like, you know, like, it's never over
until it's over. I always have this thing, unless it is
actually on the air, it didn't happen because you
can't know until you see the final cut of anything. And it. I mean,
I. I've had commercials that I've worked on, and then all of a sudden,
somebody at the last minute probably just threw what was on the temp

(22:02):
cut. From 10 edit sessions ago. So things
like that happen. So you can never, can't count your chickens because they might, they
might not hatch. Like you just have to wait until you see it.
Yeah, no, I mean it's very, it's a very interesting situation to be
in. Jessica, in your experience. Experience, what are the most significant challenges
when trying to pitch new artists for sync placements? Timing. I

(22:25):
think when people are not in the market
to, to be looking, it's very difficult. And
in advertising specifically, you don't necessarily know what
their, what their production schedules look like for the year or what they're actually
working on until you just keep hitting them up. And
that's, that's the difficulties. Like, like my role at Warner

(22:47):
Chappell now is interesting because I'm the first person in this
role, which I love, but it's kind of an amalgamation
of all different types of skills.
Like I talk to people about creative, I pitch. I
also am making new connections for the company, but I'm trying to have these
much bigger conversations with people about our back catalog

(23:09):
like Tom Petty, which, which we just acquired and David
Bowie and Dua Lipa. So, like that money, right? Those
are big ticket artists. So their songs are
going to be a little bit more expensive than, you know,
something that nobody's really heard of yet. So there's only a
certain level of brands that spend that kind of money. So knowing when

(23:32):
they're in the market to look for stuff or break an
artist and that like your question, back to your question about being how do you
break new artists? I mean, Benson Boone is one of ours.
He is unbelievable. I was very lucky to see him perform
several times this year. And I'm not gonna lie, I turned into a 13 year
old, sort like Teeny Bopper. I think he's so good. He's

(23:54):
so good. He does backflip. He's super cute, he's got a great voice, he's an
amazing songwriter. But he been able to. I know he had a deal with
Hollister, but had we been able to go out and
pitch actively to these bigger brands and say,
hey, this kid. We know they're putting a ton of money behind him.
He is. Here's where he came from, here's where we think he's going to

(24:17):
go. If you can have those conversations six months ahead
with a major brand so that they can pack that into their
creative, that's. That's ideal. That's the kind of conversations
I want to have so I can start going, hey, here's this new artist. Nobody
really knows yet. I'm giving you an opportunity to work with
this artist before they even are released. Those

(24:39):
are the types of things I want to work on. Getting in front of the
right people at the right time is the most difficult thing.
Let me ask you, Jessica, and this is another subset of the question that we
were just talking about, because you mentioned a couple of things there about when the
advertisers, when they're in the market for looking for things. And I don't
think we've ever asked this question on the show. Is it seasonal? I know it

(24:59):
sounds like an odd question, but, like, does it go through ebbs and flows and
is there particular times of the, of the year where you're getting
more, you know, hits than others in terms of, you know, connecting
artists? Yeah. Could you talk a little bit about that? Because I don't think we've
ever spoken about that. No. It's interesting because with
advertising, for sure, there are seasons, right? You know, it's like

(25:20):
one season to the next. So obviously we are a week out from the
super bowl, huge season. We start getting requests coming
in maybe November, October, right before they go to shoot, where people
are trying to figure out what their costs are going to be. So we'll get
hit up about, hey, we're thinking about doing this. Do you know how much that
would cost? And then we're just giving quotes. And this is across the board in

(25:41):
music. Like, if I'm working at an original composition house, we might be getting those
phone calls too. Like, hey, we're thinking about doing five different songs on
18 different pieces of content. So you kind of have to work through what your
costs are going to be. So that's kind of the, the. The entry phase, where
you start to see people asking questions. For me, that's a signal, oh, people
are looking. I'm going to hit up. The people I know say, hey, if you're

(26:03):
looking, we've got this. So I know in, in essence that's what the
process is going to be. So I try to get ahead of it in that
way. But we are now, the last week
we closed like eight licenses this week
alone that were last minute. So it starts to pick
up in like November. And then January is just months,

(26:24):
December, we get a lot of music requests. That's when people are like, send us
everything you've got. And that's like the music request month. And then
January is the, like, firming the details up. Another
big, A big season is back to school. That's when a lot
of the Huge campaigns come out. The holidays, right? Christmas,
New Year. So it's funny you see this kind of

(26:46):
seasonal ebb and flow, but I would say the quietest
season in advertising might be like June through August
where all the award shows are taking place. So there is a little bit of
like a breathing space, but there's definitely. Oh, and then of course, this
car season, right? End of the year, right, you have car season
launches. So there's, so you kind of do start to see like, okay, I

(27:08):
need to be here and I need to be here for this.
Not that dissimilar to, you know, TV and
like pilot season or when they get their production slate. And I will say that's
what's so interesting to me. I wish we had what TV and
film get like you, you'll get from the major studios a roster of what
they're going to release this year and where to focus. So if you work in

(27:29):
music, you know, oh, I need to, I need to reach out to this music
supervisor because we have a bunch of 1960s funk. Do you know
what I mean? Right. But with advertising, you're like, they, you get
briefs and they're like, we want something that's like poppy
electronic but with no synth and you're like cool. And so that's all
you're focusing on. And then they realize that doesn't work and then they come back

(27:51):
to you and ask for a hip hop track. So the ball is
constantly moving. But in film, I feel like you know for a
fact that Yellowjackets is going to have a soundtrack that is 90.
So you're going to send that music supervisor stuff that would fit in that era.
Like it's just a free for a little bit.
Yeah, no, no, absolutely. You know, I, I want to, I

(28:13):
want to sort of not sidestep, but I want to address another aspect
of what we're talking about in this conversation. You know, I, I, I've read previous
interviews and conversations with you where you have highlighted
the importance of emotion in sync, particularly
with new artists. And I'm wondering, can you elaborate on how
you assess the emotional power of attraction and its

(28:36):
potential impact in different media contexts?
That's a broad and very specific question.
At the same time, I'm going to start backwards. I think within
different media, you have different goals, right? So if you're doing a
social media campaign, you know that you only have about six
seconds of somebody's attention. So you're going to make something pop,

(28:59):
you're going to make it bright, you're going to want to. And this is actually
a space where they are comfortable working with emerging
artists because there's a lot less to lose and there's not a. The
spend isn't as big, right? So you have to kind of look at all the,
all the proponents of this broadcast film, TV
trailers, promos, those are going to be your bigger ticket

(29:20):
items where people are willing to spend six
figures on a track. So a lot of the times you'll
see, especially in super bowl known songs that you have
heard on the radio or by huge artists. But when you get into the
social media aspect, that song might not be used, right? Because this is
an area where they, they don't need to spend that money so they can pick

(29:43):
another emerging artist that might sound similar or they
want to help bring to light. And I love it when brands do
highlight the emerging talent because not all of them do.
But that's kind of the difference, right? You're going to use your smaller, like
lesser known artists and try to help break them. Because we all know now
social media is really what, where the charts are coming from. I

(30:05):
mean, it's crazy, but it's true. I listen to what my kids like, what he
finds on the Internet and songs and they're a name, but they
are, all the kids know them and it's nuts.
So, you know, I was scrolling earlier and he said, oh, that's on
a Fortnite. That's in Fortnite. Oh, that's in. And I'm like, wow. So
they're kind of commingling a lot of these gaming

(30:26):
songs with the TikTok and the Instagram stuff. Just so you
know, he is not on social media and super,
super strict about that, but he hears, you know, he will watch
stuff on my phone or whatnot. And then for me, because I
was an artist, because I know how hard it is to be an artist
because right now it is so difficult to break

(30:49):
through all the noise. I mean, I can't
keep up. And there's artists at all different levels
that, you know, we are now being, they're now being presented to us
based on our algorithms. I mean, that's it, you know,
you are being exposed to artists they think you'll like on Spotify. And a lot
of the times I find artists that way and I love that. But it's getting

(31:11):
harder and harder to, you know, to tour. People aren't
going out like they used to, not in the small club type of way.
You have to really be a music lover, you know, I mean, I've seen So
many artists in small clubs and been shocked at how
much space there is. It's almost like the die hard music people go
to go to these shows and I do think people are out again. But I

(31:32):
think it's for like major ticket artists. I think the days of going to the
Roxy on a Thursday night just to see who's playing, like that doesn't
happen. Absolutely. You know what I mean? The music just. I guess what the bottom
line is music discovery is completely different. And so
I think brands are attracted to working with
artists that can. That. That they can share

(31:55):
that the. The reach with. Right. That's why you
see brands collaborating with huge artists. It's for, for
the combined reach. What I would love to see more of because I
don't think it happened and I was just in Sundance and it was interesting. They
did have a panel about this. And the reality is brands
are the benefactors to the art. They really are. They have the

(32:17):
money. When you see brands like American Express
does it, I know Adobe does it. When they are investing in
filmmakers and artists and music, it makes a
difference because it is very difficult to get things made
and out and seen. It's just a very difficult
process. And so I would love it if

(32:39):
advertisers and agencies and brands had a bigger
relationship where we could share information like, here's what our goals
look like for this year. Who are you releasing? Who is your
priority so that we can match them up appropriately. That
would be so awesome. I don't know how to make that
happen, but that's like my goal. That is like if

(33:00):
I, if I can do anything within my business and make some
change, that's where I would want to make the change. I would love to have
shared information within
the like launching aspect of a brand and an
artist and all of that. Indeed, indeed.
Jessica, given your extensive experience working

(33:21):
with songwriters and catalogs, what are some of the most common
misconceptions that new artists or emerging songwriters have
about the sync industry and how do you help them navigate those
misconceptions? I don't even know if this pertains to just new
artists. I think in general artists don't understand the process
of how it works. Right. They're like, oh, can't you just call somebody up and

(33:43):
tell them that this song will be great for this brand or this
song would be great in this scene? And the reality is I would love to
be able to do that, but for advertising, it's very, very difficult. There's a
fine line between pitching creative ideas right and
there's just so much out there. It really is
timing and relationships. Right. I know I am

(34:05):
going to listen when I, you know, when I have my own company as a
music supervision, original composition producer.
I. There were people that I knew when they sent me music, I'm going to
listen to all of it because it's going to be great. And I know that
they know exactly what I was asking for. And then there were times I
would get a couple tracks from, you know, a small publisher, and it's just stuff

(34:26):
they're pushing but completely off the mark that,
like, I'm not going to listen to their stuff first anymore. So it's
also that relationship of trust. Right. If you're trying to break a new
artist, you're kind of only going to be able to break somebody
through somebody who has a good relationship with the end result. Result.
And does that make sense? Absolutely. Yeah. Okay.

(34:48):
Yeah. I was just gonna say, without the one, there's not the other. Yeah. So.
Right. I mean, you are. You could be the best artist in the world, but
if you keep sending me really obnoxious emails and you sent me
the wrong song or you're annoying, it's going to be difficult for me
to want to work with that. Do you know what I'm saying? It's. It's like,
it's all in presentation and it does matter. You know,

(35:11):
I love when I get emails from people who are
genuine and you can tell it's not a copy and paste.
And there's some. I mean, that's my whole thing too.
It's like, if you're gonna connect with somebody, you need to connect with them. Right?
Like, send a personal email if you are a fan of this
person's work and you have been writing songs for 10 years and

(35:33):
there was a scene that really spoke to you, so you wrote a song about
it. Whatever it is, something personal is going to make me open that email and
listen to that song. A blanket, hey, I'm a singer, songwriter, and here's
my stuff. It would be great for your film. Like, okay, cool, thanks.
You know, and I hate to say that because I know how much it took
for that person to send that email, but, like, give me something,

(35:54):
give me a reason to open it, you know? Yeah. No, precisely.
You cannot be generic in that it can't all be about, you know,
listen to my music. Yeah. Find a place for my facade, place. For my
song in your world. The world doesn't work like that. I mean, I don't need
to tell you that Jessica, the world doesn't work like that.
It doesn't. It doesn't. And you have to approach it with care

(36:17):
and thoughtfulness and be vulnerable and be genuine.
And, you know, just in general, I think there's so much
formality in business that we have
created this illusion of. Of a certain aspect of, you know,
greatness. But, like, I'm just. I'm just a goofy music lover who likes
to talk to people. That's really what my. My gig is like. That's who I

(36:39):
am as a person. So if somebody sends me an email where I feel like
I have that bond with them through that they're, hey, I really love. I
was googling you, and I saw this, and, you know, I just wanted to get
this in front of you and just hear what you thought. I'm going to respond
or be open to something like that because you approached me in the way that
I approached people, as opposed to something that's super formal,

(37:00):
where I'm like, this just feels, like, weird. Like, I. This feels
like I'm one of 400 people that got this email. Hey,
insiders, we hope that you've been enjoying our featured conversation.
Stay tuned because we've got so much value coming your way. But before we
dive back in, a word from our sponsor. Hey, Eric, as an artist, what
do you find are the most challenging aspects to a music

(37:22):
career, especially when you're starting out? Well, I think one of the first things is
just trying to get the direction of who you are as an artist, where you
want to go, where you want to be. And, you know, we've talked about it
on the show a lot. Who is your target audience? Who you are, Who. What
do you stand for? What do you believe in? What do you think would resonate
with an audience? And so those are some of the things that I would feel

(37:42):
being a new artist. Obviously, what I know now is different because I know these
things, but for people that are out there, like, our audience that don't have necessarily
any direction to go would be the first things that I would start off with.
And having the songs incorporate those elements
that you're speaking of into it, that's so important today. Yeah. And
I think that's one of the reasons why we started Mooboo TV and why we

(38:03):
started this new consulting service that we're offering to all of our insiders out
there, because that is another one of the big things. I mean, that is the
big thing is, like, having the great songs. That's what it really starts off. Our
friend Don Grierson always said it always starts with a great song. So
that's probably. Besides putting together what your audience and what your
target audience is, is the single most important thing. Where are your songs

(38:24):
at currently today? Are you collaborating with people? Are you trying
to go out to networking events where you can connect with other songwriters and stuff
like that? So, yeah. And what are your strengths exactly? You know,
are you a strong lyric writer? Are you a strong melody writer? Are you
a strong musician? A player. Right. You know, and it's really important to
get really strong clarity on those issues before

(38:47):
proceeding. I totally agree, Rich. And you know, with our consulting
services, we offer a myriad of different packages that we've made it super
affordable for everybody. So, you know, if you guys are interested out there and
connecting with us on a coaching call, you can visit
book.moobutv.com and start off with a free
15 minute discovery call. Well, yeah, absolutely. That we start with an

(39:08):
initial 15 minute call where we can get a sense of who you are, what
are the issues that you specifically have and want to work
on. Exactly. And we can go from there. Absolutely. Yeah. And we
tailor everything to your needs. It's not like a cookie cutter thing. We kind of
really want to get to know who you are as an artist, where you at
today? What's the snapshot of you as an artist today? And then

(39:28):
start trying to craft something that's tailor made for you. So again, if you're
interested, Visit us at book.mubotv.com for your
15 minute discovery recall. Jessica, you know, I've heard you speak
before about the importance of being proactive rather than
reactive, in sync. How do you identify and create those
opportunities before they become obvious to others in the industry?

(39:50):
That's an interesting question. I just had an experience recently
where I had met a couple people that worked for a major
brand and I, I was like, oh, it would be really cool if we could,
like, do something together. I'm like, like, what if we did this? And I
was describing one of our songs and mentioned that it might tie in
very nicely with one of their products. And they're like, yes, let's

(40:11):
talk about that. I'm like, it doesn't have to be that, but, you know, just
something like that, it's very hard to do that. And
so I don't go around doing that often, but when
I have the opportunity to, that's the proactive approach. It's
like putting, planting the seed, letting somebody know that this is
available. This is something that we could possibly Collaborate with.

(40:32):
This is something that we know is interesting to the
artist or the estate. So for us, that's
not been the normal practice.
When I've worked for smaller companies, it has because we've had to be
scrappy and kind of get in front of people and give them some ideas. But
this is a newer way to work with our catalog because for

(40:54):
very long time we get all the briefs, right?
We're a major company. We have so much content, we get all the briefs.
So we're seeing the work. It's not like we're not seeing it, but we're not
going out and putting ourselves in front of it. And that's the difference.
That's the kind of approach that I've become used
to in my career and that's what I'm trying to kind of bring

(41:16):
to the table in my new role. Jessica,
success in sync is often about relationships.
And you touched on this. We've touched on it a little bit in the, in
the, in the conversation. How do you and your team build and nurture
long term relationships with clients, especially in industries like gaming,
which require slower, more methodical negotiations?

(41:38):
It's interesting because it's twofold, right? We have quite a few people
on our team that are involved in that process. So you have the
person who is a dedicated pitch person who's pitching all the
music, and then you've got our clearance side. Both of those relationships
are extremely important, right? One's talking creative, one's talking
money. Everything that we do in life, I mean, I always, I make

(42:00):
jokes, but it's true. Like everything in life, no matter what it is that you
do, it's sales and production. And production meaning
execution, right? Sales and execution, ideas, execution.
You have to continually have conversations with people so that
they trust you, so that they trust your taste when it comes to music
supervision, so that they trust your ability to clear things and

(42:21):
negotiate on their behalf. Everything is relationship based. I guess
that's really the. I guess that's kind of the answer to that. I don't know
if I missed that. No, no, no, no, not at all. Not at all.
You know, I want to back up on something that, that you
said early in our, in our conversation, which I thought was really
interesting. And that is that, you know, it seems like the one thing that really

(42:43):
stands out in your career is your ability to say
yes to new things. And, you know, when you talked
about that early on, I was just curious. What's the most
unexpected lesson that you've learned from saying yes
to an unfamiliar Opportunity. And how has that shaped your
perspective on sync and music publishing? Okay. It might

(43:05):
not have shaped my, my, my relationship with think in
music publishing, but I think I have
definitely said yes to things before. Really?
Like in my younger years, really evaluating
if that was the right fit for me. Do you know what I'm saying? It's
almost like. Yeah, I think, I think it's twofold. And of course, as you get

(43:27):
older and wiser and you work in different
situations, you kind of know what to look for or what you think
you will. Will flourish in. But not every
opportunity is equal. Right. It doesn't always. It might get you
to the next level. Right. But it might be such
a terrible fit that it's painful. Right.

(43:49):
I feel like that is probably the biggest lesson I've learned
because I'm that person. I'm up for anything. Right. I love adventures. I didn't
think that my. I did not. Honestly,
I didn't have very high expectations for myself. I found out about five
years ago through having a child that I have adhd, which
is super fun, but my whole life made sense after that. I'm like,

(44:12):
oh, this is why I do all the things. This is
why I can't sit still. This is why I'm easily
distracted, but also super hyper focused. I mean, it's this
kind of nutty thing and it's, and it's worked for me. But when I
started out, I was just happy that somebody wanted to hire me.
You know what I mean? I came from like, oh, I'm so lucky to have

(44:33):
a job. And I think as I've gotten older and more developed
in my skills and I understand the industry that I'm in a lot
more and I gained so much experience.
I now want to be in places where I know not only
am I the right fit, but I can make a difference. You know,
that's where my views have changed. Where. Not. I don't say yes to every

(44:55):
opportunity now. I, I did for a long time and it got. And it
suited me for a long time. But as you get older and you realize your
work opportunities are to be evaluated
when you're young, say yes to everything. That's how you learn when you're
older. Not every opportunity is equal to
the next. Yeah, it's. It's like you learn

(45:16):
discernment. Discernment. That's exactly. Yeah. You took the word
yeah, yeah, yeah. You learn discernment. That's what you're saying is that you learn
not every opportunity is equal, but you learn to be Discerning. You learn that you
know these five things. But no, this is the one that's going to suit me
here and now. And it's like, you know, it's like anything, you know, it's like
relationships and just views on different aspects of it.

(45:38):
They are not the same in your 20s as they are in your
40s. They're just not. Nobody I know of
looks at those situations in the same way, depending on the station
of life you're at. Absolutely. Totally. And I also think, you know,
there is something to be said about coming up with people. Like, I
feel like I, my. My point of entry into the world of

(46:00):
advertising because I'll be honest, this is the first time I've ever worked outside of
when I was younger and I worked at Maverick as an intern. This is the
first time I've worked in the actual music industry. I always felt
like I was adjacent and it felt more that I was in the
advertising industry because those were the people I was. I was involved with.
And so when I started in this business, I was about

(46:22):
26. And I have risen up
with all of these amazing people who are now the
CCOs of major agencies or are now
the VP of Brand at a major soft drink company.
And so when you are able to start at a level and kind of
see, stick to it. Because I've worked in advertising, but in

(46:44):
different iterations. I've worked in production, music. You know, I've done
repping. Like, I've done all these different types of things within that world,
but seeing all my friends come up and then we're all up at this,
like we've hit kind of the top floors together. It's
amazing. It's. And that's where your relationship starts with the people you met in
your twenties who you would go and have drinks with after work. Like, I

(47:05):
didn't realize that I was actively networking. Right.
You don't think about that, but when you get older, you're like, wow, I have
a huge network because I went to this school and this
summer camp and you know, I worked with this person at this company. And
those things start to take shape. I think when you're a little wiser. I mean,
some people are very good at this at a young age, but I just kind

(47:27):
of let things happen naturally. And now I realize, wow,
like, I know some pretty awesome important people, but just by
happenstance, because I hung out with them when I was in my. 20S and it
came full circle for you. So I guess what helped you in your twenties being
so Open and got you to the point of the discernment now and realizing
what you have with your network of people. So. Very good. Yeah.

(47:48):
Jessica, has the global nature of streaming today
impacted what music is synced? It's interesting.
I. Yes. I think there's a huge influx of Latin
influence in music now where people and Afrobeats, like,
people are super into that right now. So you're seeing that more on a global
stage than you have in the past. I also think there's this

(48:10):
huge range of nostalgia that is global.
So you see a lot of. You see a lot of syncs from, like the
90s globally. I work, again, mostly in advertising, but I know just
from my film and TV partners, like, seeing what's coming across their
desk. It's very much a mix of those things that you're
seeing heightened in the last couple years, for sure.

(48:32):
Looking back at your best sinks that your most proudest sinks. How do you measure
success beyond just the immediate financial gain for you? Personally,
I think the. The reaction of the public. I worked on
a project for NFL and Milk where we created
bespoke rap for why
Juju Smith Schuster. Right. Is that

(48:54):
he's a. I think. I think he's a Steeler. I don't know. I'm
terrible football person. And it hit 10 billion
views in like a week. And as we were watching this
climb, I was. It was my
first huge job out of the gate when I started my
own company. So I ran the whole thing by myself. I creative directed

(49:16):
it. Everything went smoothly. The winning
production was done by this
and this talk about timing, this female producer out of
Atlanta. And she had hit me a week before, before. And she sent me
the kindest email, and I listened to her stuff, and I said, I
definitely will keep you posted. I have something coming up. And she

(49:38):
won this huge spot. And I was so, like,
forget the financial aspect for me. I love writing
checks for other people. I love that. It made me
so happy to connect with this woman. And within
two weeks, she nailed something. And I got to write her a nice big check
like that. That. That. That is success. Yeah,

(50:00):
no, absolutely. And. And my. My next
question is, what role does the cultural
and emotional impact of a sink have on its
lasting value? You. You touched on that when you were talking about some of the
sinks of the 90s and so forth. So what role does the cultural
and emotional impact have on its lasting value to you? Well,

(50:22):
it's interesting, right? I mean, I grew up in an era where we were still
listening to the radio and writing down lyrics like, that was. Right.
That was a very. Or mtv, where it wasn't about
syncs. You got to see these artists. And I mean, I was very
much part of the MTV generation. I call it that because I was too young
to experience what was happening on screen. But. But watching it

(50:44):
unfold going, that's what being a teenager looks like. Or that's what, you
know, a rock and roller looks like or whatever. That was a weird thing to
say. But anyway, I think nowadays you
see it in film and tv. Like, of course I'm going
to use the reference that everyone knows and loves, but stranger things.
I mean, when you see the. The. The.

(51:06):
The. I want to say backdraft. That's not the right word, but like the
reach and the impact. That's what I'm trying to say. Impact. Yeah,
the impact of pairing
a perfect song to a.
A visual. It. It does last because it
gets referenced over and over. I mean, I had never

(51:29):
seen Six Feet under, but I sure as hell knew that the usage
of Sia's Breathe Me was epic. Yes.
And everybody said that. And so I watched it just to get to
the end. I mean, what a great series. And the irony is I watched it
as an adult, and it came out when I was about Lauren Ambrose's age, but
had I watched it when I was her age, I would have had a completely

(51:51):
different experience. And that show was like, I'm watching it as
a parent and I'm like, oh, yeah, yeah. This is all like. It just was.
It's such a great show. But that usage was like on the
nose. And so when you can create moments like that or help people create
moments or lead them to those moments. Because a lot of the time
what we do as a. As a publisher or a label, we're just lead. Think

(52:13):
people. We're just leading them to what's available. Right here. You can use this.
And we have to cross our fingers that they get it. You know, she knew
this because this will work, you know. Absolutely. And. And in the Sia
situation, I mean, that was very unique in. In. In a placement and
it's in its impact. And I think one of the things that made it
have the power was not only the show, which goes without saying, but

(52:35):
it's also. It was high. And it is highly
unusual for a sink placement to have six minutes
of time on the screen. That's very, very unusual.
Yeah, very, very. I mean, they synced the whole song.
It was a portion and. Absolutely. And I
think that's, you know, I'll be honest, I think that's what broke Sia for the

(52:57):
people that didn't know her. I mean, prior to that, I was a huge
07 fan. So I'd been listening to Sia and was aware of her way
before Six Feet Under. But that show and that usage
put her on the map. Yeah. Another one I can think of is
one of the first major syncs that I was adjacent to. I didn't,
I didn't do it, but I was working as one of the music supervisors on

(53:18):
the project. The Mitsubishi sync for Telepop music that just
breathed. Oh, yeah, yeah, that. That was one of the first
major bands that I remember having a
huge extra success by syncing to an
advertisement they used. I think Mitsubishi at that, that time was
very much wanting to use because they were with Deutsche at that time.

(53:40):
They were wanting to use known songs that they could help write. So you could
see that. And they were picking really interesting songs that worked, but
also had such a reach that like made people go out and go, who is
that? Let me go listen. Oh, they have an album, you know. No,
absolutely. You know, another one that comes to mind that I forget who
we were talking to. It was somebody many years ago on the show

(54:02):
and we were talking and they, they used the reference of
Feist and the song that the apple spots.
1, 2, 3, 4, 2. Yes, perfect. And they
said, you know, and. And they pointed something out which was really interesting. They said,
you know, I think that the total bill on that for, for the, for
Apple was somewhere in the neighborhood of like 75, $80,000. They said,

(54:24):
you know, which was a nice sum of money. But they said the impact,
the great part about the impact was that what they saw
was not only in the song, but the fact, and he got this
directly from the manager, was that Feist at that time was
doing two to three thousand seats a night when
that came out. Okay. And that immediately after that

(54:46):
is, you know, the 40 million dollar campaign that was put
on. On. On that particular ad campaign nationally on
television, she went to 5 to 7,000 seat
amphitheaters literally from that. So the artist
development aspect, you know, and the deeper. And the
deeper thing about that track is that it became ubiquitous with the product.

(55:07):
So it went even deeper, you know, than that. So it was like the triple
whammy. Absolutely, yes. And. And again, you know, we're talking
a different era, but that's one that we haven't spoken yet in terms of, you
know, there are the cultural impacts, but here's one, one that was directly related
to artist development aspect. Yeah, yeah. And that
is. I mean, that is lightning in a bottle, right? You really want

(55:29):
those things to happen. That's the goal. How do you make those things happen? And
they have to happen organically. You have to have trust. Also.
The brands have to be willing, you know, I mean, I don't think they
realized how big it was going to be, or maybe they did, or they were
hopeful, but you never really know, you really don't until you put it out in
the world to see how it's how people respond to it. But that song

(55:51):
at that time, it was also early in the game
when Apple was, you know, I think. Was that an ipod commercial? I think it
was an ipod. I think it was. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they broke a lot
of bands. Yeah, they broke a lot of bands, which, I mean, didn't need to
be broken, but that took them to a new audience in a new world. And
then obviously they had the collapse after that when they included everybody. That

(56:13):
song on. On Everybody's Thing, which is it went from one extreme
to the other. They had this tremendous success with, you know, with
Vertigo and, And setting up that, you know, album, and then they came
with that other one after. So just, you know, it was very interesting. Yeah, they,
they. I mean, Apple, Apple. Apple has been.
I mean, they are probably. When people talk about advertising

(56:35):
and, and impact, I think that's one of
the. The case studies. Apple is on a different level. You
know, that they're going to spend money, you know, that they're going to partner with
the right people. You know, what they put out is going to be interesting. And
they've done a great job at branding their brand. Right. Their. Their
brand is a brand. Right. It's like it's its own entity in it. In

(56:56):
itself. Like the way that they market to people is its own thing, and
they have a corner market on that. You want.
I would love to see more brands take risks like that, but again,
it's so subjective. Like, I don't know what the process was for that song.
I don't know if that was a late edition or the first
song that they paired with it. Like, I don't remember the commercial in my head

(57:19):
well enough. But in most instances, somebody might
send out a brief saying, hey, can you send me songs about
counting? Like, that's what the brief could have been. Right? Yeah. You
know, and that song just happen to be perfect
and, you know, getting from point A to point B when it comes to
music, you can't. There's no straight line. There's

(57:40):
absolutely no straight line because it's almost like you have to hear
it and see it and feel it in order to understand
it. And. But you also know exactly when it's not working.
Being sure is the hard part. Exactly. Jessica, what
do you feel holds artists back from success in
their own careers? Not realizing that

(58:03):
the industry is more than just music. I mean, that's something I wish I
had known. I. When I was a songwriter, I never owned it. When
I was. When I was an actress going to school, I never owned it. You
got to own it. And you also really. And I used to hate it when
my acting teacher would say that to me. Like, if you can see yourself doing
anything else, then, you know, go do that. And the reality is I could

(58:24):
because I can see myself doing everything. Like, I'm like, oh, I'll do that, you
know, but, right. You. You. You have to love it.
I mean, for me as a songwriter, I wanted to be a songwriter
artist, but I also didn't want to be famous. You have to want it.
You have to want it. You. You have to eat, sleep, pray, love,
meet people. Put yourself in situations where you're talking to the

(58:46):
right people or not being annoying. You know, you have to
align yourself with partners who can lift you up and create new stuff
with you. I'm working with a band right now, one of
the lead singer. It's a duo. The guy I've been
friends with for 20 years, and I've seen different iterations of his music. This
by far is my favorite iteration. Anything I've seen

(59:08):
him do, and I'm all in. Right. I'm so excited for
what's to come with them, but that's because he's done it for so
long. He's made all the contacts, and then he tried this new thing, and it.
It just works really well. So don't be scared to try new things.
Don't be scared to partner with people. Don't be scared to
try a different style. Like, if you love what you do and you

(59:30):
want to make music, you just have to be open and you have to
work in every capacity. You have to be your own biggest
cheerleader. You have to put yourself out there. You have
to own it and not be scared. I think that's
the biggest roadblock for most of us, right? Fear people will
say no and they're not going to be nice about it. And if you ask

(59:52):
for someone's opinion, just be ready for them to give it to you. And
I think that's the other thing. You can't be precious. I get it.
It's your art, it's your baby. But you can't be precious. And some people are
going to say things that are completely wrong and untrue. We've seen that
happen where you see, like somebody at a studio passed on a movie and then
it went on to win an Oscar, or somebody passed on a song and it

(01:00:14):
was a huge hit for somebody else. It happens. Yes. It's part of life. That's
right. Happens, you know? Yes. Somebody keep doing it. Keep
knocking on the doors. If you believe in it. And if it's that good,
somebody will take notice. Timing is everything.
Yeah. But it has to start with you. I want to ask you, Jessica, throughout
your life, have there been any books or

(01:00:36):
films that you have found to be particularly
inspiring, professionally speaking? Well, it's funny you say that.
I don't tend to read a lot of professional
books. I read a lot of novels. I'm a novel reader. I like stories.
I like, you know, big, sweeping, long stories. So I'm
currently reading the Covenant of Water. One of my favorite books is

(01:00:58):
Shantaram. Nothing has to do with anything, but I
just, I like to, I like to experience the
world through other people's eyes. So I love those types of stories. I love
stories about faraway places. I think music,
business wise, I've been, I've been lucky
to have a real life book in front of me with

(01:01:20):
my dad and his career. So I kind of, I
never, I hate to say this, but, like, I grew up thinking I
knew everything about the music industry because I had been on it, been
inside of it as a child. So I never really, like, read any
books. You know, the one book that I did find very inspiring, just as
an artist, as somebody who I thought was just a delightful

(01:01:42):
read, was the Dave Grohl book and Patti Smith. Oh, Patti
Smith's book, the Witch's Kids. That was extremely inspiring
because it's all about art. It's all about. It's a love
letter to Robert Mapplethorpe. And it's one of the
most amazing time capsules,
like Gramercy Park, Chelsea area

(01:02:05):
in the 70s and 80s. I mean, if you haven't read it,
it's a good one. Firing just to get through it. Yeah. It just dawned
on me and I didn't realize. So your father's Warren Etner, I'm
assuming. That indeed is my dad. Okay. I just realized that, you know,
when you mentioned your father, I was just like, wait a minute. I Didn't realize
that. I said, wait a minute. Her dad's Warren Etner. Interesting. I know. So

(01:02:27):
my. My upbringing was weird. Yeah. Yeah.
No, interesting. That. That is so amazing to know. I
wanted to ask you, Jessica, your career has seen you transition from
being signed as a songwriter in 2002 to now being in
a leadership role at, you know, Warner Chappell Music. What advice would you
give to those who aspire to have a successful career in sync, and

(01:02:49):
how can they best prepare for that? Know the players. I think
that's. That is probably the. The best advice I can give to
anybody who is a coordinator or is just kind of getting into the
business. Know the players, ask questions. No question
is stupid. You know, we all love music, but
definitely, I think people have strengths. Like, I'm a neo

(01:03:11):
soul lover. That's my world. I know artists in that world. I.
I grew up in the 80s and 90s, so that's a good area of expertise
for me. Find an area of expertise, even if it's. Even if your
expertise is broad, find a lane within the music that you're
like, I know about this style very well. I think it's
helpful. I think when you're too broad, people don't

(01:03:33):
necessarily. It's not always right. Does that make sense? Like, when you're
too broad and you like every. Oh, I like everything. Well, that's great, but what's
your. Where's your passion lie? Like, when you're alone, what do you listen to? What
do you speak out? I think I know a lot of people that got into
the music industry later in life and have
thrived. You're never too old to become a coordinator. You know what

(01:03:55):
I mean? I know people that are like, I need a change. I want to
pivot. They're in their late 20s, early 30s, and they go and find
an internship. Like, don't. Don't. Any entry point is an entry
point, and you will learn something along the way and
think. Particularly, you know, everybody has that idea that, oh,
I can be a music supervisor, or, you know, oh, I'm really.

(01:04:16):
I have a really good ear for music, and I can. You know, I. This
is how I would do that. That's great. But a lot of the stuff
that music supervisors or think people tend to deal with, a lot of it
is in the negotiations and the financial aspect. It's not
always creative. Right. Sometimes a director comes in and is like,
these are the songs I want. Go get them. Yeah. Now you got to make

(01:04:38):
that happen. It's in your people skills. Right? It
Exactly. And so, you know, and. And it's funny. I do see
people that can just put their head down, and they don't want to socialize, and
they don't want to network, and they just want to do the job that's at
hand, and there's a place for that. But if you are in sync, it's. It's
all of those things. You have to. You have to keep making

(01:04:58):
contact. These are your clients. These are new people to work with. You know,
you can't. You can't be shy. Honestly. It's
like, you do have to talk to a lot of people. So it's. People skills
are very important. The soft skills. Honestly, if I could tell anybody
anything, I don't care what industry you're in. Soft skills are the most
important skills. They just are. Anybody can be somebody else, can

(01:05:20):
be super organized or somebody can, you know, put templates together. That's
great. That's a really good skill, too. But just being able to talk to people,
connect with people and
come up with ideas and be creative, those are soft skills that I think
we are slowly valuing more. But those
are skills that will get you far in life no matter what you do. I

(01:05:42):
could not agree with you more. I. You know, I've been in the business,
Jessica, for 47 years this year, and, you
know, congrats. Well, I just want to say, you know, what you just said
is so profoundly important for our listeners to hear, especially people coming up
in the business, because there are so many people who, as. As you just pointed
out, can do the job or, you know, they have certain

(01:06:04):
skills, but they don't know how to talk to people. They don't know how to
build relationships. They don't know how to call somebody up and say, you know, Jessica,
it's been a while. We should get together for dinner. You know, they don't know
how to build on what is going to be so important. And
as you know, this is a relationship business. The whole industry
is relationship business. I mean, and some people, you know, you

(01:06:25):
remember who John Kadner was, right? I. I know that name, but I
can't. He was the head of. He was the head of A and R for
Geffen Records. Oh, yes. Oh, my God. Absolutely.
And we. We interviewed him, and he told this great story about relationship where
he said, you know, sometimes the point that we're talking about goes as far as
he said he wanted to sign Ozzy Osbourne, and he.

(01:06:46):
He really wanted to do it at the time when Ozzy was available and David
Geffen, you know, who's one of the smartest, shrewdest,
toughest business businessman in, in the industry, legendary,
said, absolutely not. I will not do
business with Don Arden, the manager of. At that time,
he just wouldn't like that was more important than money,

(01:07:08):
success. And like, like, you know, even to somebody at that
level where David Geffen said, you know, no. And, you know, and I worked for
Clive Davis for many, many years at Arista, and he had the
same, same view. You know, when, when, when you talk to people who are at
that level, you realize it's not all dollars and cents. There are some
things that just aren't worth the money. They're not worth the

(01:07:30):
aggravation or the time and the energy that they're going to take. So I just
wanted to comment that that's. It's such an important point you made. And people need
to do it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And on
your way up and on your way up, be a good person, be kind to
everyone. Respond to email. I. It always
baffles me that I can get like the CCO of an

(01:07:52):
agency to email me back within five minutes, but like the
associate producer that I emailed just ignores my emails. Right. Like
that. I don't care if you're not interested, just a response.
Yeah, thank you so much. We're not looking right now. It's, it's, it's
just, it's good manner. Yeah. It's so funny. Yeah. It's so funny that
you talk about this because me and Rich. Rich have had conversations. I

(01:08:14):
mean, like opuses, Magnum opuses that we have talked about, the
whole consciousness of today. Because of course, we're getting bombarded
from every shape, way and form. Yeah. But it's like, you know, you
can't respond back to an email one for the first time. The
second, third, fourth, we're in a fifth email and you, I mean, you know, send
us to hell. Tell us something. Right. I would rather hear something than just

(01:08:36):
not nothing else. And that's. It goes to a deeper point of what's going on
in today's world. And so it's interesting that you're bringing that up. That
is, that is a whole other conversation. But yes,
100%. And I do, I do think that is taught
and I do think it's very important anytime I do
talk to younger people, getting into the biz because I love mentoring

(01:08:57):
people. I've had such a strange road trip
to get here. I do feel with this role, like
when, when they approached me about it, it Was I told my husband,
and he goes, oh, my God, this is the job you've been training for your
whole life. And I'm like, totally. I know how to do this, and
it feels great, but that I want to give back. So anytime

(01:09:19):
somebody emails me or wants to have a quick zoom and I have
time, I do. It's important. It's important.
It's great that if this person goes on somewhere, they're like, oh, oh, yeah, I
know Jessica Entner. She talked to me first. And then you never know
where someone's gonna go. You never know where they're gonna be. Don't be
an apple. Like, that's like the house to say it. Like,

(01:09:42):
bottom line, like, if you just use that as your motto,
you'll be fine. And I think, honestly, I learned that from my dad.
And I will say I did have a crash, crash course in
networking, and I didn't even realize it. And I wish I was paying
attention, to be honest, but my dad used to take me to events with him
for whatever reason, you know, people would think I was his wife. I shouldn't

(01:10:05):
say for whatever reason I was, you know, like, it was really weird. It was
really funny. He liked it much more than I did when that was said.
But we would go out and he would say, and also be. Pay attention
when you're out. Like, pay attention to whoever you're with. Work with the person
you're with. And my dad taught me that. And he said, if I
introduce you, that means I don't know their name. So please

(01:10:27):
introduce yourself and ask them to say their name again. So,
yes, I learned this little trick. And I was like,
yeah, so sorry. I don't know. Oh, it's okay. I have a potty
mouth. Sorry. We can curse here. Also. Also blame my dad for
that. No, purely my mother. But he. He
would do that. And I, you know, I'm like 16 years old at Grammy

(01:10:49):
parties, meeting, you know, John Colognes and like, you
know, not Clive Davis, but I'm trying to think of Polly Anthony, you know, and
my dad's introducing me to these people. So I had this kind
of front row seat into how he
worked a room. And it wasn't like he worked. My dad's also a
very gregarious, great person, and I. I

(01:11:11):
love that now as an adult, when I meet people who do know my dad,
the first thing out of their mouth is, man, your dad was one of the
good ones. I. He gave me my first break having someone
say that about you. That success. Yeah, that's my
goal. And that's why I picked up that it was your dad. Because I go,
he's legendary. I mean, so I was like, oh my God, this is Warren Edner's

(01:11:32):
daughter. I was like, holy crap. You could have him on. Yeah, we would love
to. Yeah, he's legendary. Yeah. Not to
plug my own podcast, but I do have a podcast with a friend from height
school and my dad has two episodes. Oh, great. Wonderful. Yeah. Well, please
share it. Share, share. What's the name of the show? What's it about? The name
of the show? It's called nine zero who ten. I. I graduated

(01:11:54):
from Beverly Hills High, as did my co host, and we've been friends
since we were. I was 15. And so actually
during a lunch with my dad and my friend Dan, this
came up in conversation. He's like, hey, would you ever want to do this? My
friend has already gotten this website up and he's been telling me to do this
idea. The whole podcast kind of started with people

(01:12:16):
that grew up in la, in and around celebrity, whether it
was their brother or sister or mom or dad. We
had. My dad went to Fairfax High School, so he has stories about
Phil Spector and Jim Morrison because he went to UCLA
film school. So he has like 1960s.
Then he was in the grassroots because he was in a band and then he

(01:12:38):
managed all these bands. So we had a two episoder where he just told
story after story and it's great. And we also had like
Angelina Jolie's brother, James Haven on Bobby Jacoby,
who you will absolutely recognize because he's been in every 80s
movie or TV show you've ever seen as a child actor. We
had Tara Reid's brother on. Who did we have? Oh, we had Epic

(01:13:00):
Mazer from Crazy Town. Oh, nice. We
had Charlie Paulson from Goldfinger, who's an old friend of mine. So we've just been
talking to people that grew up in and around LA and
their growth and where they came from and how they got to where they are.
John Weinbach, I went to high school with. His episode was
great. He was the executive producer on

(01:13:22):
Last Dance, the Michael Jordan documentary. So he's produced
all of those. So it's been really fun because I'm connecting with people that I
grew up with, but also like meeting new people that Dan knows who have
had these crazy LA stories. And it really is a cross between,
like, what it was like to grow up in this world with a
famous sibling or father or whatnot. But also like, what

(01:13:45):
are you doing now? How are you dealing with that? How did you grow through
this? So it's kind of. It's kind of. Kind of a social project,
actually. But it's been really fun. I love the title. It's a brilliant title.
990210. That's brilliant. Absolutely.
90210. Yeah. I wish I could take credit. I wish I could
take credit, but it is good. Yeah. So that's. That's something I do

(01:14:05):
in my very little spare time. Absolutely. We.
We will put that into the. Into the show notes and. And so forth.
Jessica, I. I want to ask you, where can people reach out to you? What's
the best way to contact you? Honestly, LinkedIn. That's another
thing to tell all of these young, young aspiring
music people. Get familiar with LinkedIn. Yes, it's. It's

(01:14:28):
business, Facebook, but you get to know the players, you get to look at companies,
you get to learn names. It's. Use it as a. As a learning tool.
It does have a lot of resources there. Absolutely. LinkedIn is probably
my easiest way to get a hold of me. Wonderful. That's
wonderful. Jessica, we want to thank you so, so much for
taking the time to do this. This has been. Been a wonderful, insightful

(01:14:50):
and great conversation, and we are both very, very grateful to you.
We can't. Thank you. Oh, my gosh. I'm honored. Thank you for having me. I
was honestly just to tell you guys I was really honored that you asked, so
thank you. What a great,
insightful, interesting conversation from someone
who's been on the front lines of a lot of the various

(01:15:11):
areas of the business that have led her to be successful in. In this particular
arena. I thought there were so many great points here, Eric, that were
talked about. One in particular that I thought was really interesting that
isn't talked about enough. And it's kind of an insider point, but that really, I
think will add a lot of value to people wanting to place music.
Was her whole point about seasonality in sync

(01:15:33):
placements, that there are distinct seasons for sync. I mean, whether it's the
super bowl or whether it's back to school campaigns or whether. Whether it's, you know,
summer or, you know, and understanding these cycles in positioning,
you know, songs and in pitching really is an effective kind of
way to see. Yeah. How, you know, I remember. Yeah,
I remember when we asked that question because I think it was me that had

(01:15:55):
brought up the point of like, is there times of the year that there's certain
sinks? And it's a brilliant point. That you're bringing. Because for people
out there that do have a wide catalog of different stuff that might. Might fit
those different seasons, that might be a way of you to kind of figure out,
okay, I should be pitching maybe three months ahead of time or six months for
the super bowl. I might have something that's super bowl related or

(01:16:17):
for Easter time or during tax. You know, I mean, there's all these
different events that happen during the year. If you think about it, back to school
is a big one. That's a big one for sync placements. So if you have
anything that would fit those kind of things, it might be wise to maybe
start reaching out at people during certain times of the year. Absolutely.
Yes. Yeah. And I also felt that sticking with the theme that I stuck

(01:16:38):
with at the top of the show, which is always about the artist. She had
a great point about advice for overcoming artist challenges. Jessica
advises artists to embrace not just the music, but all
aspects of the industry to overcome challenges and achieving success.
And this is getting back to the whole thing with like saying yes,
obviously you have to figure out if you can really do. You know, sometimes

(01:17:00):
you might be scared, but can you actually go through with it and say yes
and actually and do it? And that's something that you'll have to assess. But
the challenges that artists face is something that's a big
thing for any artist that's just starting out or whatever level
that they're at is just overcoming and facing those challenges that people
might be experiencing. And I think that that's a great point that she brings

(01:17:22):
up about embracing and not. Not just about the music, but just about
all areas of the industry. And that's why you've rich. Have harped
so much on people reading billboard hits, digital music
news, all the different areas. Hypebot, which is a big thing that you've talked
about. Yeah. Because I believe. How do I put this?
One of the things that I think is very, very true in the era that

(01:17:44):
we live in today is that if you want to be a successful artist, you
have to look at this as it is a career, but it's got to
be a way of life. If you were to have this as a career. I'm
not talking about, like, people that want to do part time and, you know, dress
up and maybe do a show once or twice a year. But if it's to
be your career, meaning this is where you're going to be making a living in

(01:18:05):
music or in sync or in publishing, you've got to be
educated about the world you're getting into. I don't mean that you have to have
a PhD or that you have to know everything, but this has to be
incorporated into your life life. And I don't know anyone
who's successful in the music business where that
hasn't been the case. Remember, it's, it's, it's not just a

(01:18:26):
career. It's a career. And it's a life. Hey
insiders, thanks so much for tuning in to this episode. We really appreciate
it. To get show notes, links and everything that was mentioned during this
interview, head on over to our Official website at mubutv.com
forward/podcast forward/show notes if you're
enjoying the content and what we're doing here on the show, please subscribe to the

(01:18:48):
podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you
listen to podcasts from. And don't forget to rate and review our show at
iTunes. Five star reviews are always welcome and help to ensure
that our podcast stands out on the top rated and new and noteworthy
charts on itunes in our space. You can also find us at social
media at Facebook, Instagram, TikTok and Twitter

(01:19:10):
X, all ending with the handle mubutv, which is spelled M U
B U T V. Don't forget to catch our flagship show, the
MUBUTV Music Business Insider Video Series, airing
every week on YouTube at YouTube.com
mubutv this show was produced and created by Ritch
Esra and Eric Knight theme music by Disciples of Babylon. And

(01:19:31):
be sure to tune in next week for another episode of the MUBUTV
Music Business Insider Podcast.

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Stuff You Should Know

New Heights with Jason & Travis Kelce

24/7 News: The Latest

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Inside the Secret World of Sync: How Top Brands Really Pick Music With Jessica Entner From Warner Chappell Music

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}Stuff You Should Know

New Heights with Jason & Travis Kelce

24/7 News: The Latest

All Episodes

Inside the Secret World of Sync: How Top Brands Really Pick Music With Jessica Entner From Warner Chappell Music

Stuff You Should Know