November 2, 2025 • 57 mins
A leather jacket, an iconic eagle logo, and a three-chord blur that changed everything—tour manager Monte A. Melnick joins us to reveal how the Ramones became an institution without ever chasing the charts. From booking chaos and van miles to Sire Records deals and night-after-night precision, Monty shares the systems and scrapes that kept the band loud, fast, and on time.
We go inside the job nobody sees: shows and hotels, wrangling crews, negotiating with agents, and surviving mismatched arena bills where batteries and ice picks rained from the crowd. Monte explains why the Ramones doubled down on headlining their own rooms, how CBGB’s gave them a lab to refine short, no-solo songs, and why minimalism was a deliberate design, not a limitation. He walks through Joey’s rise from drums to the mic, Dee Dee’s volcanic creativity and volatility, Tommy’s drum architecture to Marky’s transition, and Johnny’s iron will that protected the brand.
If you’ve ever wondered how a band with modest sales became a global touchstone, this conversation connects the dots: discipline over myth, craft over chaos, and a road team that made it all possible. Listen, share with a fellow Ramones fan, and leave a review to tell us your favorite track—and why it still hits.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:02):
This is Rock and Roll Radio.
Come on, let's rock and rollwith the Ramones.
SPEAKER_02 (00:07):
This is Monty A.
Melnick, Toy Manager for theRamones, and you're listening to
music in my shoes.
SPEAKER_00 (00:47):
Hey everybody, this is Jim Boj, and you're listening
to Music in My Shoes.
That was Vic Thrill kicking offepisode 103.
As always, I'm thrilled to behere with you.
Let's learn something new orremember something old.
So, Jimmy, I know your favoriteband is the Ramones.
We've talked about it on theshow many times.
Many times.
(01:08):
I love the Ramones.
We've talked about them probablymore times than we can count.
So imagine how lucky we aretoday to have Monty A.
Melnick, the tour manager of theRamones, joining us from New
York right now.
So lucky.
SPEAKER_01 (01:27):
Welcome, Monty.
SPEAKER_00 (01:28):
Monty, welcome.
Thank you for joining us onMusic in My Shoes.
SPEAKER_02 (01:32):
Well, hey ho, let's go.
SPEAKER_00 (01:34):
Yeah.
Of course, let's do it.
Hey, so one of the things Iwanted to do is I think, you
know, our listeners probablydon't know exactly everything
that a tour manager does.
And you know, you have this bookthat you've been promoting.
It's had several editions on theroad with the Ramones.
A great read.
(01:54):
I really enjoyed it.
But if you Yeah, if you couldtell our listeners a little bit
about what it entailed, all thethings that really were your
responsibility.
SPEAKER_02 (02:04):
Well, I started off early with the group before uh
they really started playingaround anywhere in performance
studios.
They they started and uh Iworked with doing sound for them
for basically for showcases.
And then when the performancestudios closed down, they they
started getting jobs outside.
So I I kind of jumped onto acrew doing uh everything in the
(02:26):
beginning, basically driving anduh doing the sound for them and
setting up equipment.
And the bigger they got, themore people we could hire, like
drum roadies and guitar roadies.
And from there, I worked on myway from road manager to tour
manager.
And uh tour manager there's alot of many, many things the
tour manager does, you know.
Uh uh basically I worked, youknow, booking shows, uh, working
(02:49):
with the uh booking agents,working with the management,
working with a record company,working with crews, of course,
working with the band.
It's a lot of different jobsthat entails tour managing.
SPEAKER_01 (03:03):
And the Ramones toured like incessantly.
So you were you were on the roada lot, right?
SPEAKER_02 (03:08):
That's a good word, incessantly.
I like that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Basically, yeah, uh, yeah,that's what that was my job to
be on the road.
I mean, I was lucky because alot of tour managers you they
join a group and then they do atour and then they they tour the
ends and then have to look foranother job.
But the remones kept me onthroughout their whole career,
basically.
(03:28):
I worked with them uh with theirvideos and worked with them when
they were rehearsing, and theykept me on the payroll for other
things besides um just touring.
But touring was the main thingwith the Ramones.
That was a meat and potatoes,basically.
They they weren't selling verymany records, that was a
problem, you know.
Touring and merchandising wasthe was the meat and potatoes
for the Ramones, basically.
SPEAKER_00 (03:48):
Yeah, and that was from uh 1974 to 1996 when the
Ramones um ended the Ramones.
So you were there basically theentire time with them.
SPEAKER_02 (03:58):
Pretty much, yeah.
I I think I'm in the beginning Iwas working basically with them
in performance studios, whichthey did a lot of showcases
there.
And then uh when they startedpicking up a lot of jobs later
on, uh I jumped onto the crew.
SPEAKER_00 (04:11):
Well, it's a fascinating book.
I enjoyed it so much.
I actually was going on Sundaymornings outside, sitting on my
porch, reading it, and my kidssaid, What has gotten into you?
Because you do not read bookslike this.
And it it just kept me where Ijust wanted to keep reading.
And it's it's it's a really goodbook.
SPEAKER_02 (04:33):
I'm glad you like it.
SPEAKER_00 (04:34):
Yeah, you you know, you really learn a lot.
I think you know, a lot of timeswe think we know a lot about
bands, but until you read a booklike this, you realize you don't
know half of what you think youknow.
SPEAKER_02 (04:46):
I was lucky enough though, though, with my
publisher back when I first putit out, they let me put in a lot
of images and posters and torquepasses.
So it's a lot of image, imagery,and things to look at, also.
SPEAKER_01 (04:58):
That's what I was gonna say.
Yeah, it's got so many amazingphotos in it and and pictures
and imagery.
unknown (05:04):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (05:05):
I was joking around for the punk rockers, you don't
have to read it, just look atthe pictures.
SPEAKER_00 (05:09):
Well, you could.
You could get the whole historyjust by looking at the pictures.
So let's go back.
You grew up with Tommy Ramonback in the day, and you guys
went to a ton of concertstogether, you know, from reading
the book, and you guys saw likeCream and Janice Joplin and Sly
in the Family Stone and ChuckBerry ten years after, Johnny
(05:32):
Winner, Jimi Hendrix, you know.
It's just it's really cool toread that in the book.
And what was it like for youguys going to that, you know,
the filmmore in in other places?
What was it like?
SPEAKER_02 (05:45):
We're very, very lucky to have the filmmore East,
Bill Grant's Film or East intown.
So and he brought in everybody.
So we we just saw all sorts ofdifferent varieties of music we
were exposed to, not just onespecific area.
That's what the beautiful partabout the Fillmore was.
It was an amazing venue.
SPEAKER_00 (06:02):
Yeah, I wish that, you know, it stayed around.
There's so many of the venuesthat you wish that they had not,
you know, ceased, you know, toexist and that they could still
have the same vibe that theyalways had.
And you know, if you look at um,you know, Winterland out in uh
San Francisco and just all thesedifferent places, if they had
(06:25):
just stayed around and had thatsame vibe, how cool it would
have been.
Now, I went to to uh I went toCBGB festival a few weeks ago in
Brooklyn, and you know, I knowit's not the same thing, but I
did get to see you know thedamned play, who was a band from
CBGB's, you know, along with theRamones, you know.
(06:45):
It was cool to be able to see aband like The Damn still playing
and still sounding good.
And I just wish that theRamones, you know,
unfortunately, the originalmembers, you know, they're not
with us.
But if they could still be heretoday and they could have played
a festival like that, what itwould have been like and what
(07:06):
the attendance would have beenlike.
SPEAKER_02 (07:08):
Did you catch Marky's?
Uh he was there, Marky Ramonesband.
SPEAKER_00 (07:12):
I was not able to catch him.
I wanted to.
It was tough to move between thestages.
That was one of the the, youknow, it was under the K bridge
there in Brooklyn, and it waskind of difficult moving around.
But I wish that I had seen him.
SPEAKER_02 (07:26):
Um Yeah, I was out of town for that.
But um, yeah, he Marky's, youknow, he plays like 99 98% Ramon
stuff.
So if you, you know, it's reallyhe's he's carrying the legacy of
the Ramones along with it, withhim, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01 (07:39):
He's got a good band too, you know.
He's got a good singer and uhguitar player and everything.
SPEAKER_02 (07:44):
He's put together a good, a good uh, a good group
there.
Where are you guys located?
SPEAKER_00 (07:49):
So we are in Atlanta, Georgia.
I grew up actually on LongIsland.
I grew up in Levittown, NewYork, and I listened to WLIR
that played a lot of Ramones.
And I moved here about 35 yearsago, so I've been down here, but
again, you know, my roots andgrowing up and as a kid, my
(08:10):
shows were all in um in NewYork.
And it's funny because I'vetalked about it before.
I went to a Ramon show at theNassau Community College back in
1985, and it's like they broughta flatbed truck on the student,
you know, courtyard.
And I remember we did somefunnels beforehand.
(08:33):
There was a bunch of us thatwent, and I was in the mosh pit,
and I remember getting elbowedin the head, and the next thing
I know, I was like knocked outon the ground, and I I couldn't
remember anything at that pointin time.
SPEAKER_02 (08:48):
What did you what did you do before?
SPEAKER_00 (08:50):
We were doing funnels, you know.
SPEAKER_02 (08:52):
What's a funnel?
SPEAKER_00 (08:53):
A funnel.
SPEAKER_01 (08:55):
A funnel beer funnel.
A beer funnel, okay.
SPEAKER_00 (08:58):
You know, where you take a funnel and you're
drinking from it and you pourand it it was actually um orange
juice and vodka, if I could behonest with you.
Oh my gosh.
And um it was just crazy.
It was a good time.
A bunch of of my friends went,you know, obviously that's 40
years ago, but uh it was somegood times of of seeing them.
(09:19):
And that was one of those thingsthat you just heard word of
mouth, hey, the Ramones areplaying at NASA Community
College, and boom, let's go.
And you know, um for Jimmy,Jimmy's first show, first
concert actually.
SPEAKER_01 (09:32):
Yeah, it was the Ramones in 1983 when I was 13
years old.
Uh they played at the AgoraBallroom here in Atlanta.
And uh all ages show.
So my older brother took me anduh it was I I was hooked.
I mean, I was already hooked.
I was a huge Ramones fan, but II it was just um life-changing.
SPEAKER_02 (09:52):
Yeah, that was a good venue in in Atlanta.
We we like playing there.
SPEAKER_00 (09:56):
Well, the show that Jimmy was at was actually the
one that Amy Carter was at thatshow.
Uh she came to soundcheck.
And can you tell us a little bitabout that?
I mean, you were there, you hadto meet her.
What was it like having thedaughter of the president in you
know at a show?
SPEAKER_02 (10:14):
Well, it's a bit intimidating with a lot of
Secret Service people aroundchecking.
She only came for thesoundcheck, unfortunately.
She didn't stay for the show.
Um, but you know, she was very abig fan, and uh, you know,
having all the Secret Serviceagents all around was a little,
you know, as I said,intimidating is a bit crazy, but
uh it was, you know, she's avery beautiful, nice person.
(10:34):
She actually wrote a little noteto them that I have.
Oh, wow.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (10:39):
Oh, that's pretty cool.
SPEAKER_02 (10:41):
Have that somewhere.
SPEAKER_00 (10:43):
Well, that's good.
I mean, um, you know, if youthink about it, like if I went
to a show, I don't know if Iwould write a note to anyone,
but it must be cool becausebeing the daughter of the
president has to be difficult,and not being able to do
everything you want to do, uh Iguess I can see why she would
write that.
So that was Jimmy's firstconcert.
So if we go back, um in thebook, you talk about Dee Dee
(11:07):
started calling himself Dee DeeRamone before the band even
started using the name Ramonesbecause he was a big Paul
McCartney fan.
And Paul would check into hotelsas Paul Ramon, but he would do
it without the E at the end.
And I just think it's a supercool story.
I mean, that they came up withthis from Dee Dee saying I'm Dee
(11:29):
Dee Ramon.
SPEAKER_02 (11:30):
Well, actually he he saw this article and he came to
the group and said, Let's makeuh call ourselves Ramones.
You know, Ramon at the end.
Uh and um that was a little bitof a problem in the early years,
you know, because people eitherthought they were some sort of a
Mexican band, or they were allbrothers, or they were a gang,
(11:53):
you know what I mean?
And so in early years it was abit of a problem, you know.
People got the wrong impression,you know, because the way they
looked with the leather jackets.
As a matter of fact, one time wewere in uh Columbus or someone
checking into a hotel early on,and I'm looking behind the desk,
and there's a little note, watchout.
This is this is a gang here.
Watch out for them, you know.
So the way they looked with theleather jackets.
(12:14):
You know, later on everybodyknew what the Ramones were, but
in the early years it was aproblem.
People thought there was someactually Danny Fields, but
there's some sort of a Mexicanband in the beginning, you know,
before he came to see them.
SPEAKER_00 (12:24):
So you mentioned Danny Fields.
So Danny Fields managed theRamones and he managed the doors
at one point.
And that to me, that's just sucha different, you know, group of
uh of musicians.
How did Danny fit in, you know,with the Ramones?
And and you know, could you seehow he was able to be with
(12:46):
different groups and yeah, wellhe well he signed Iggy and MC5
to the to the labels, you know?
SPEAKER_02 (12:53):
He worked with Jim Morrison.
I don't think he I don't thinkhe managed or did anything that,
but he worked with him in recordas a record executive when he
was doing that.
But signing you know, Iggy andthe uh MC5, he had a lot of uh
you know Ramones type things inhim.
Anyway, also Linda Stein wasco-managing the group.
Linda Stein was married toSeymour Stein.
(13:15):
Who's Seymour Stein guys?
Yes, Sire Records, right?
Sire Records.
So that's how they got theconnection to Sire Records.
So so it was a co-management,actually, Linda Stein and Danny
Fields in the beginning.
Oh, okay.
And Danny was still, you know,as I said, working with Diggy
and MC5, and he loved theRamones.
unknown (13:32):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (13:33):
He loved the Ramones.
I mean, the story calls, Ithink, uh Lisa Robinson from
Cream Magazine told Danny to godown and see the Ramones at
CBGB's.
And he was like a littlereluctant because they were
bugging him, come down seeingit.
He thought there was some sortof Mexican-Spanish band in the
beginning, you know.
So when he when he went down tosee the group, he just loved
them, said, I want to be yourmanager, you know.
(13:55):
The group said, We need$3,000for some equipment.
And he went to his mother,borrowed the money from his
mother, and uh he became themanager of the group with a lot
of uh Linda Stein.
SPEAKER_00 (14:06):
That's a great story.
I mean, it really is, just tothink that you think one thing
about a band and then you go andsee them and find out that
they're really nothing like whatyour opinion has been, you know,
formulated in your head.
And the next thing you'reborrowing money from your mother
so that you can, you know, frontthe band money for instruments
and all kinds of stuff.
I mean, that's super cool.
SPEAKER_02 (14:27):
It was creams, creams are really good uh with
the band.
He loved the band.
SPEAKER_01 (14:31):
And of course they had the song Danny Says, you
know, about about Danny and onthat same album, End of the
Century, that you you get alittle mention in there, you
know, Monty's driving me crazy,right?
SPEAKER_02 (14:41):
Well, yeah.
People come to me and say,What's your favorite Ramon song?
I like a lot of Ramon songs, butthat's my favorite.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (14:48):
You know, and that's good.
You know, it's it's reallyfunny.
A lot of times we ask peoplewhen we have them on, hey,
what's your favorite song?
And and a lot of times peoplestruggle with telling us my
favorite song is I Just WannaHave Something to Do.
I just love that song.
That is my favorite Ramon song,hands down.
And I think it was from thefirst time I heard it.
(15:09):
Jimmy, what would yours be?
SPEAKER_01 (15:11):
Oh, I don't know.
You know, I just played a gigthough.
You were at uh last weekend andI played uh Sheena's a punk
rocker.
So uh why not say that one?
That was my original firstfavorite Ramon song when I first
heard the Ramones.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (15:24):
I also like touring, touring is never boring.
Yeah, that's a good thing.
But you know, in that in thatsong All Away, which they you
know, Monty's making me crazy.
It's it's just like being in anavy, right?
Right.
You know, he's also talkingabout things that are driving
him crazy, like the van and themonitor man, and how he just
wants to have some fun.
But there's a chilling line inthis in this uh song because the
(15:45):
bubble's going to explode,probably never live to get old.
SPEAKER_01 (15:48):
Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (15:49):
Yeah, Joey wrote that back in that song.
It's kind of sad, you know.
SPEAKER_00 (15:53):
Yes, it you know, it is sad because they didn't get
to live that long,unfortunately.
SPEAKER_01 (16:00):
Well, and a lot came out in Joey's lyrics, uh, you
know, that he had that kind ofpush and pull in him.
Obviously, he struggled withwith mental health and uh, you
know, just kind of he was adifferent kind of person, right?
You know, physically and andmentally and everything.
And so I think part of that waspart of the magic of the Ramones
was that his identity of offeeling kind of like a an
(16:20):
outsider.
SPEAKER_02 (16:20):
Well, I think that's why they a lot of kids kind of
have some you know relate to theRamones a lot, you know, because
that you know, if Joey, which ishe was a total outsider and the
way he looked, can they make itbig and do something terrific
and write great songs?
You know, kids could do the samething and join groups and stuff
like that, you know?
SPEAKER_00 (16:41):
Yeah, so tell us a little bit about Joey from your
eyes.
I mean, your point of view.
You spent a ton of time withhim, and you know, I think he's
a great frontman, and you know,not just because he was this
tall dude in a leather jackethovering over the microphone,
but I think he really commandedthe stage, even though he
(17:01):
wasn't, you know, someone thatwas all over the place.
W how did you see him?
And and and what what did yousee that we don't?
SPEAKER_02 (17:09):
Well, you know, they really worked hard in the
beginning in the early years.
Uh they was just pretty raw andrough.
And they, you know, they reallyworked hard, rehearsing a lot,
playing a lot.
They played over 70 times inCPGBs and the same number of
times almost in performancestudios, just working on their
set and the way they looked andhow they worked their
(17:33):
instruments.
And Joey worked his way up fromyou know, coming, you know, he's
played drums first with theRamones.
Yeah, and then and then T washaving a hard time singing and
playing.
Actually, the first group of theRamones were three-piece with
Joey on drums, Dee Dee playingbass and singing, and Johnny on
guitar.
And uh and T D was having a hardtime singing and playing bass.
(17:55):
And they actually played oneshow in 1974 as a three-piece
group in in performance studios,but it wasn't working out.
So Tommy was there, just wantedto produce them and manage them.
Heard Joey had a good voice,pulled Joey up the drums and put
him up up on front as a frontman.
And he worked his he worked onit a while.
It took him a while to get hisold stage presence, but he was
great at that.
(18:15):
He really worked very hard.
SPEAKER_01 (18:17):
Yeah, no, you talk about the early days of the
Ramones, and I I have thesearguments with people that
aren't Ramones fans that say,oh, you know, they're just
they're so basic.
And and to me, the Ramones werealways intentionally minimalist.
I mean, I'm sure a little bit ofit came from not being virtuosos
on instruments, but I felt likethat.
It was it was very muchconceived to be something
(18:38):
different and artistic from thebeginning.
Would you agree with that?
SPEAKER_02 (18:41):
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, Tommy, I I look as Tommyas he like the architect of the
band, you know.
He came in and uh specificallygeared the group to towards that
that that specific style of ofplaying, and and and then that's
what they were good at.
Those you know, short songs andno no guitar solos, no drum
(19:05):
solos.
They didn't like all of thatstuff, you know.
So that's why they developedalong those lines.
SPEAKER_00 (19:10):
Yeah, so Mani, in your book, you described Didi as
he was a living, breathingcartoon character.
He was unlike anyone I have evermet in my entire life, and I've
met a lot of bizarre people.
Can you expand on that a littlebit?
SPEAKER_02 (19:26):
Well, that there are there are different Didies.
There are a number of differentDidies.
There was the good Didi, thegood Didi, the bad Didi, the
songwriting Didi, the singersinging Didi.
It was a multiple personality.
You know, he never knew whichDidi was going to show up.
That was the problem.
And of course, he was obsessedwith things.
He he couldn't just smoke onejoint, he had to smoke a whole
(19:48):
bag of pot.
He couldn't take one drink andhad to drink a whole bottle.
And then he was he couldn'twrite him.
The good thing about it is hecouldn't he wrote one song.
No, he wrote 10 songs in a row.
You know what I mean?
He was very impulsive like that,you know.
And it was still it was harddealing with him a lot, you
know, when it was the addictiveDidi and uh the crazy Didi and
(20:08):
uh unhappy Dee Dee, but therewas a happy Didi too, you know.
SPEAKER_01 (20:12):
Now, did Didi stay involved after CJ took over
playing bass?
SPEAKER_02 (20:16):
Yes, that was the beautiful part about that, is
because at that time Didi waslike he wasn't he wasn't there
anymore.
He didn't he said he didn't wantto be in the Ramones army
anymore, you know.
And he was trying he tried thatdraft thing for a bit.
SPEAKER_01 (20:29):
That wasn't very good.
SPEAKER_02 (20:31):
Well, the group thought, you know, get do your
rap album, get out of yoursystem.
Uh you know, fine, he'd stillstay in Ramones, just get it
that out of your system.
He did that for a brief time,but it was just was wasn't happy
with the at the end there.
Um you know when he was playingon stage, it wasn't there
(20:51):
anymore.
It's like kind of like lack,lackluster, you know.
So when he quit the group,everybody thought, you know,
this is the end of the Ramones.
I I pretty much thought that waspretty much, because he's the
main songwriter and really greaton stage in the early years when
he wasn't spacing out to the endthere.
But uh Johnny said, no, no,we'll look for another bass
player.
Uh don't worry about it.
(21:12):
Um, and they actually uhauditioned 20 different bass
players.
The first bass player theyauditioned was was CJ.
Oh and they actually picked him.
Johnny saw something in CJ rightaway.
So after looking through anumber of other bass players,
they picked CJ.
Now, the beautiful part aboutthat is so they have CJ comes
into the group and he's like ayoung guy, and so they all kind
(21:33):
of have this kind of suck intheir stomachs to keep up with
them, you know.
So he he he injected some reallylife into the group at the time,
but Didi stayed around, no, Ididn't see around, he was there
writing songs and giving themsongs too.
So they had a group wonderfulDidi songwriting and a young
Didi with its CJ there, youknow.
So that's the band like uh wenton a number of years because of
(21:55):
that.
SPEAKER_00 (21:55):
Now, I have to be honest, you know, Didi started
wearing the tracksuits, and andyou know, I think he had like
Adidas or something.
I got the no-name tracksuits.
I'm like, if Didi Ramon can wearthem, I can wear them.
And it I I look back now and I'mglad there's no pictures of me
because I looked absolutelyhorrific in those things.
SPEAKER_02 (22:14):
Well, that's a funny story.
There we were going down toWashington, D.C., we were flying
down there from New York fromRamon show, and Didi shows up in
his jumpsuit and gold chains,and John Johnny flipped out.
He said, What the fuck are youdoing?
What are you doing?
You're in the remote.
He was pissed off, you know.
You can't draw a dress likethat.
He never did, you know, he neverwore that again, basically.
(22:36):
You know, minimal, you know.
But he did try to get away withthat in the beginning.
SPEAKER_00 (22:41):
So speaking of Johnny, you talk about in the
book that he was very resistantto change.
And they all were in many ways,but he was the most hell-bent
about it.
And he believed that theystumbled upon a good thing and
there was no reason to tinkerwith it.
And he saw bands come and go,but figure the Ramones would be
like an institution, alwaysthere, always the same.
(23:05):
And I tell you, I think thatthat is the greatest line from
the standpoint the Ramones, theway people think of them today,
it is an institution.
You see these kids with Ramonshirts.
I asked my daughter uh the othernight, she's 24.
I got her a Ramon shirt, she wasin her teens.
(23:26):
I'm like, hey, do you still haveyour Ramon shirt?
She's like, Yeah.
Now, she can't necessarily namea song by the Ramones, but she
has that shirt.
And she's like, Yeah, I wouldn'tget rid of that shirt.
You know, there's a lot of otherthings that as she's gotten
older, she's gotten rid of, butshe didn't get rid of that.
And I really think that theRamones are an institution, and
(23:48):
as much as they didn't sellrecords the the way they wanted
to, they have made such a hugeimpact on music.
Something that do you think thatthey realized that in their
lifetime, how big and importantthey were to so many people?
SPEAKER_02 (24:04):
No, they never figured that out.
Unfortunately, they passed awaybefore they became so big.
I mean, you go to another thingis you go to sports events, you
know, baseball, football,basketball, and then chanting,
hey hell, let's go.
Right.
You know, it's it's on jock rockalbums.
SPEAKER_03 (24:20):
Yes, yes.
SPEAKER_02 (24:22):
That's unbelievable.
And uh and since I said, Yeah, Isee people with the Ramone
shirts.
A lot of them know the Ramones,but a lot of them don't know the
Ramones.
It's just like the the iconicimage, the all-American image of
the band that they they try toput through with the with that
logo, which our Toto Vega, Igotta give him credit, came up
with.
This amazing person.
SPEAKER_01 (24:41):
Yeah, incredible, incredible.
SPEAKER_02 (24:44):
Yeah, as I said, that the the the shirts like
huge, the logo's big, and a lotof people take that took that
logo and did other things withtheir own bands, kind of copied
it.
But um yeah, the these days, youknow, people say in one shape,
Ramones, Beatles stones in onebreath, and it kind of makes me
feel oh wow, this isunbelievable, you know.
SPEAKER_00 (25:06):
Well, uh think about it, Jimmy.
I mean, we've probably talkedabout the Beatles, the Rolling
Stones, and the Ramones morethan any other band.
You know, we're on episode 103.
And if you think about it, thatprobably comes down to the bands
we talk about the most.
SPEAKER_01 (25:23):
Well, and it's hard to say that any band from, say,
the 80s on would be the sameband they are without those
three bands, right?
With without at least one ofthem.
You know, and any band that'slike alternative or punk is
completely standing on theshoulders of the Ramones.
SPEAKER_02 (25:41):
And I have I have I have a little joke they tell too
many times, though.
I mean, um, you know, seeing theRamones talk with the same, you
know, Beatles, Ramones, Stones,and all that.
I said, if the Ramones were thisbig when I was working for them,
I would have gotten a big raise.
I mean, they're huge now.
I mean, unfortunately, they'rethe four the originals, and I
don't have to see how big theyare, you know.
(26:01):
And there's a Pfizer commercialout now that's a hey, hold on,
let's go to the plane.
I don't know if you've heardthat recently.
I did hear that.
Yeah.
They're playing that a lot.
You know, it's amazing.
SPEAKER_00 (26:11):
You know, it is.
So, where does all the money gotoday for all the shirts that
people are buying?
SPEAKER_02 (26:18):
Yeah.
Well, uh they're basically overthe years, Johnny and Joey
formed a corporation after Didileft and and uh Tommy left
early.
They formed a corporation.
And when uh Joey passed away, heleft his half to his.
(26:38):
It was Johnny and Joey in thecorporation.
When Joey passed away, he lefthalf to his mother, and who his
mother passed away left it toMickey Lee, was Joey's brother.
And Johnny married Linda, and hepassed away and left it to
Linda.
So the main people on theRamones corporation now are
Linda and uh Mickey.
And they there's money flowingin for them, let me tell you.
SPEAKER_00 (27:00):
I bet there is.
I mean, seriously, I see Ramonshirts all the time.
If you go into stores, you seethem.
They're everywhere.
There's more Ramones stuff outtoday than I think what there
was when I was a kid.
SPEAKER_02 (27:14):
Yeah.
It's all over they theymerchandise a lot of stuff.
But in the early years, I mean,merchandising was a part of the
Ramones that that was reallythey they counted on that
because they really weren'tmaking a lot of money selling
records.
So touring and merchandising,selling t-shirts and other
things at the at the venues waswas their main income,
basically.
SPEAKER_00 (27:33):
So a good friend of mine, a childhood friend of
mine, so the how Tommy Ramon wasto you meeting when you were a
young age and you guys did alot.
For me, my childhood friend wasChris Cassidy.
And Chris Cassidy um directedthe Dennison Lois documentary.
SPEAKER_02 (27:51):
Oh.
SPEAKER_00 (27:51):
And you were you were on the Dennison Lois
documentary, and you got to seeuh Joey's pants that he had worn
a thousand times.
I'm just making that up, but itseemed like he wore them a lot.
There are a lot of holes inthem.
SPEAKER_02 (28:04):
And he didn't wore them a thousand times.
SPEAKER_00 (28:07):
And Dennison Lois had helped out with
merchandising.
It's kind of like their firstdate was going to CBGB's and you
know, seeing the Ramones andsaying, hey, you you know, you
guys don't have to come runningout here to do the stuff.
We'll do it for you, and and soforth.
What was it like to be able toget some fans that could help
(28:27):
out and just do a little bit andtake a little bit off the
shoulders of of the band so thatyou could still sell stuff?
SPEAKER_02 (28:35):
Yeah, well, um uh that was great for Arturo.
Because initially, when we firstwhen they first started out,
they couldn't afford to haveArturo come on the road.
So uh early on, and he said,Well, I'll print up some
t-shirts and bring them on theroad, and that'll pay for my
way, his way on to tour with theRamones early.
So that's how the t-shirtsstarted early on.
(28:56):
He's he had a loft so he couldprint t-shirts and hang them up
on pipes and the and he designedhis shirts and stuff like that
and silk screened them, broughtthem on the road.
But he was also running lightstoo.
He was also lighting director inthe early years.
So what he would do is like runthe lights, and at the end of
the set he put just like whitelights on, run out to the front
(29:17):
of the house, wherever it was,and sell shirts.
So it was pretty crazy for himin the beginning.
There, he was running back andforth, you know.
After the show, he had to comeout and sell shorts, shirts.
So when Dennis and Lois camealong, you know, that was a
great help for him, you know.
SPEAKER_00 (29:31):
Yeah, and I think for them it was great because
they're like, oh yeah, we helpedthe Ramones with uh selling
shirts, and then that led tothis band and that band, you
know.
SPEAKER_02 (29:40):
Yeah, you know, they were really great.
They were really great people tohave on the road, you know,
having super fans like that onthe road with us uh when they
came out and helping Arturo andselling shirts and stuff was
really great.
And yeah, and their house isinsane.
I mean, they can't their houseis like wall to wall stuff, you
know, of other not only remote.
(30:03):
I don't know if you know youknow about that, right?
SPEAKER_00 (30:06):
Yes, from the movie that you get to see.
SPEAKER_02 (30:07):
And it was Unbelievable that that house is
like packed with stuff, youknow?
SPEAKER_00 (30:11):
Yeah.
And you know, when you watch itand you watch, you know, the
scenes that you're in, youalmost look amazed when you're
in that area where the Ramonstuff is, like, you can't even
believe all the stuff that theyhave and that they actually have
that pair of pants.
I mean, if if you've not seenit, you should you know, to the
listeners, you should check itout because this pair of pants,
(30:33):
I don't know how anybody couldput them on.
They were so holy.
It was it looked like it wasimpossible to be done.
Um but, you know, very, verycool, you know, like again, how
they were able to take it andand start doing, you know, merch
for all these other bands, youknow, that you know, whether it
was Happy Mondays, Oasis, youknow, just all these different
(30:54):
bands that was just super cool.
So if we if we go back to theold days here, and maybe you can
help me understand this.
Uh, math is not my my best thinghere.
SPEAKER_02 (31:04):
It's funny because you're talking about Dennis and
Lois.
First of all, there's there'sonly one place in the world
there's a Ramones museum that'sin Berlin.
Right.
He's another person that has anincredible collection of just
Ramon stuff, you know what Imean?
SPEAKER_03 (31:18):
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_02 (31:18):
So and but it's that's weird that it should be
in New York, but of course thatthat never happened.
They he opened up this museum inBerlin, a guy named Flo is a
really wonderful.
If you ever get to Berlin, yougotta go see it.
Just reopened there recently.
SPEAKER_01 (31:31):
And you know, Berlin, uh, from old Hanoi to
East Berlin, Commando involvedagain, you know.
SPEAKER_02 (31:36):
Yeah.
That was good, Jimmy.
Thanks.
And also, so I was doing thisMidwestern thing.
My friend Lauren Cone arrangedthat I could stay at this guy's
last show was in Chicago at thisguy's house, Bill.
He's a huge Ramones fan.
So I go down to this basement,his basement's just full of
Ramones stuff.
Wall-to-wall Ramone stuff.
Unbelievable.
(31:57):
You know, just almost likeDennis Muller, but it's you
know, people collect stuff, youknow.
It's amazing.
SPEAKER_00 (32:03):
Yeah, it really is.
And like you mentioned, youknow, Dennis and Lois, they
collect they collect likeeverything.
SPEAKER_02 (32:10):
They have I mean, they got the house full of
unbelievable other things there.
SPEAKER_00 (32:14):
And you know, toys and this and that, and you know,
I remember reading in the bookthat if they played CBGBs three
times a week at five dollars ahead, and they kept the 3,000
they made off the 600 people ateach show.
What did CBGBs, how did theymake money?
(32:35):
Was it just from sellingalcohol?
I mean, if the Ramones werekeeping all the money, what how
did C BGBs operate?
What was what was their take onstuff?
SPEAKER_02 (32:44):
No, that was just yeah, that no, we got the door
basically.
And we weren't uh we were alittle suspicious of Hilly too,
so we always had someonecounting at the door on our own,
you know what I mean?
Right.
No, that was part of the deal.
Uh I mean, uh the door and it'sHilly's, you know, people come
in and they bought a lot of youknow, booze and whatever.
Where he was he was and and andthen C BGBs is happy with that,
(33:08):
basically, in the in the earlyyears.
We that's the deal they had.
SPEAKER_00 (33:11):
And what did you think of going down to C BGBs at
the time where I mean, if youthink of all the bands that
were, you know, playing there,whether it was the Ramones or
whether it was uh Patty Smithgroup or Blondie or Television
or Talking Heads or a number ofdifferent other bands, what was
that scene like?
And did you think that all thesebands were, you know, not all of
(33:34):
them, but a ton of these bandswere going to blow up and be
just huge?
SPEAKER_02 (33:37):
Well, you know, Seabees was at that time was a
really crappy neighborhood.
The Lower East Side was not agreat place to be around uh, you
know, there was like bums andflop houses and salvation army
there, about bending buildingsand junkies and stuff like that.
But um also you could live downthere pretty cheaply, you know,
if you wanted to put up with allthe craziness that was going on.
(33:59):
So that's why a lot of bandsmoved down there and were in the
neighborhood.
And uh in early years, the onlypeople in the in the in the
CBGBs are the bands watchingother bands, you know, because
and they became very friendlywith a lot of groups, you know,
Blondie and Talking Heads andPatty Smith and Television and
all the people that that weredown there.
That that's were the only theonly people that were in the the
(34:22):
uh C BGBs at that time wereother bands.
That was the beautiful partabout uh Hilly, you know, at
that time uh clubs just wantedyou to play top 40 music.
You couldn't go into a club andplay anything but top 40 music.
But Hilly says come into theclub and do your own uh stuff.
As long as people came in anddrank, and he was happy about
(34:44):
that, you know, had some peoplein the club.
So that's the beautiful partabout CBGB's having, you know,
it gave it a shot to all thesebands to uh work on their
material.
And MS the Ramones played lowover 70 times.
I don't know if you saw anyearly shows of the Ramones.
It was raw.
They had to work on their set,they had to work on their music,
you know, they had to work onplaying their instruments.
(35:05):
That's the beautiful part aboutCBGB's.
It gave all these bandsopportunity to come in and work
on their original stuff.
SPEAKER_00 (35:11):
And it worked out well for them.
It worked out for many of thebands.
SPEAKER_02 (35:16):
Oh, yeah, definitely.
And for Hilly too, it becamethat place became really famous
world famous.
SPEAKER_00 (35:22):
If you think about it, that makes sense because how
many times do you see somebodywith a CBGB shirt on as well?
That you know, Ramones, C BGB,you know, it it all makes sense.
Um, it really does.
So Tommy left the group in 1978,and it had an impact on the band
in in multiple ways.
(35:42):
And what was that like withTommy leaving and bringing Marky
in?
SPEAKER_02 (35:47):
Well, as I said earlier, Tommy brought the
Ramones in as a three-piecegroup just to produce them and
manage them, you know?
And when it came when it came topoint where they couldn't, Didi
couldn't sing and play bass,they pulled Joey up the drums,
they started looking fordrummers, but no no drummers
couldn't understand what theywere doing early on.
They just it was not there wasjust something from another
(36:09):
world that these drummers wouldcome in and just couldn't, they
didn't know what to do.
So Tommy would sit down on thedrums and play along with them.
He was actually a guitar player,but he was a great musician.
But he developed a specific drumstyle for the Ramones, specific
drum style.
So they asked him to join thegroup.
He could be he became TommyRamon.
And I think 1974, uh August,they played their first show as
(36:32):
a four-piece in C BGB's.
That's how when they firststarted back then, C BGB's.
So as I said, Tommy he justwanted to produce some
management, but it was touringwas for him was to too grinding.
He just it was just too much forhim, you know, to handle it.
And it's it is it is a very drygrinding thing, you know, city
after city, getting in and outof the van and uh driving
(36:55):
hundreds of miles, and you know,stuff like that.
In the early years was crappyhotels and small clubs.
It was it was just it was it washard.
So he he had enough, and he saidhe he he decided he's gonna
leave the band, but he's he wasstaying around and produced them
and helped them with with theirmusic.
So that's what there was thegood part about that whole
thing, you know.
And so so he he he left, andthen uh when he when Marky they
(37:20):
they knew Marky from CBGB'sdays.
Um Marky's a great jumper.
He's in a group like Dust andRichard Hell and the Voidoids.
He was hanging around with them.
They he they they knew eachother pretty well, the band and
and uh Marky.
So uh, but when he first camein, uh Tommy had to sit down
with him for a while, like acouple of weeks or about a
month, and show Markey thespecific style that Tommy
(37:45):
created for the drumming starfor the Ramones, you know?
SPEAKER_00 (37:48):
Right.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (37:49):
So that's how so that's how Marky got into the
group, and uh it was uh Tommyhelped him get into it with the
with the drum style he hedeveloped.
SPEAKER_00 (37:58):
Yeah, you mentioned uh he played with Richard Helen,
the voidoids, and you know, a areal good song from the 70s is
uh Blank Generation, a song Ilike a ton.
Not better than any Ramon song,but I do like that song a lot.
And Marky was Mark Bell at thetime and was the drummer on that
song.
unknown (38:18):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (38:18):
Did you ever hear his dust stuff?
His heavy metal stuff is prettygood.
I have not.
Jimmy, have you?
No, I haven't.
Yeah, they should pick up thatwas before uh everything, you
know, earlier early on, beforehell and all that.
Uh really good group.
I think Kenny Aronson was inthat group.
I think he played with someother people later on, and uh
it's a good group.
SPEAKER_00 (38:37):
Did you say Kenny Aronson was in that group?
SPEAKER_02 (38:39):
Yeah, I think so.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (38:40):
Oh wow, yeah.
I might have to check it out.
So speaking of groups, I knowthat you dabbled a little bit in
bands in the beginning.
What um what was that like foryou?
SPEAKER_02 (38:50):
Well, it was an experience.
You know, as I said, I grew upwith Tommy.
We went to um junior high schooltogether, and then we went to
high school together, and thenafter we graduated high school,
1967, I saw wow.
Um uh yesterday.
Yeah, right.
That's what I wish it wasyesterday.
Uh uh, he asked me to pick up abass to play bass.
(39:12):
I had never played anyinstruments before, but I picked
it up pretty quickly.
And as you see in the book, Iformed a I was in several groups
with Tommy before the Ramones,you know.
One group was Triad, and anothergroup was Butch.
And then I got hooked up inbetween Triad and Butch.
Uh there was a group called 30Days Out.
Uh, this guy named Jack Malakinhad a recording studio as he
(39:35):
putting together a band.
And he asked Tommy and I toaudition for it, but they didn't
need another guitar player, soTommy didn't make the band.
But Jack got him some jobs um ina recording studio as assistant
engineer.
So that's when Tommy gotinvolved in the recording aspect
of it.
And I joined this group 30 DaysOut.
We had two albums on one of theTrees 7172.
(39:59):
And you know, and then I joineda group with with Tommy after
that like a uh almost like aglam glam band there called
Butch with Jeff Sandler in thatgroup.
Remember the Tough Tarts?
I don't know if you remember theTough Darts.
Yeah.
He was in that group with us.
And uh then that was you know, Ihad a bit of a career playing
(40:19):
bass there for a while.
SPEAKER_01 (40:20):
That's so cool.
SPEAKER_00 (40:21):
That is cool.
SPEAKER_01 (40:22):
So uh another thing you made me think about talking
about uh Tommy and his producingwas what a bold choice it was on
that first record to put theguitar all the way to the left
speaker and the bass all the wayto the right.
It was like such a somethingthat would be on like a Beatles
stereo album or something.
SPEAKER_02 (40:41):
Yeah, though Tommy's very influenced with the Beatles
stuff and like that.
And also got credit to CraigLeon on that first album, too.
He was producing, and Tommy wasthere right along with him,
basically, you know?
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_00 (40:52):
So I believe that we had in 2023, I think it was our
sixth episode, if I'm notmistaken, Jimmy.
We had your brother and a friendof yours that had gone to the
Omni here in Atlanta, and theysaw Black Sabbath, Van Halen
with the Ramones opening up, andthey only went for the Ramones.
SPEAKER_01 (41:15):
Yeah, they left after the Ramones.
SPEAKER_00 (41:16):
They left after the Ramones, and they said there
wasn't many people there for theRamones, and and people didn't
really like the Ramones.
They didn't know who they wereor what they were about.
Trevor Burrus, Jr.
SPEAKER_01 (41:26):
But there was a group of like a hundred kids in
the front going crazy.
SPEAKER_00 (41:29):
Right.
Because they knew what it wasabout, and they all left.
They could care less about VanHalen and they could care less
about Black Sabbath.
And I know you talk about thatin the in the book, Monty,
about, you know, differentthings with not being able to
tour with the right bandsbecause no one knew what to do
with the Ramones, and finallythe Ramones kind of said, we
(41:49):
need to be the headlinersbecause it's the only way.
SPEAKER_02 (41:52):
That was a problem with the booking agents.
We went through a number ofdifferent booking agents, just
didn't understand what theRamones were, so they stuck them
on shows.
Well, in between filming forRock and Roll High School, 1978,
79, 78, we had they weren'tmaking a lot for the movie.
They were only being paid like$25,000 for the movies, nothing.
So they we had to get some giguh gigs in between.
(42:15):
We had like a week off inbetween filming.
So they booked us for four showswith Black Sabbath back then.
And now at that time, '78, notnobody knew what the Ramones
were.
But the heavy metal crowd didn'tknow the Ramones.
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (42:28):
No.
SPEAKER_02 (42:29):
So that was a big problem when we went on then
when the Ramones went on.
They were throwing stuff and itwas you know, they were throwing
like coins and batteries, and itwas kind of a little not very
good at the times.
Actually, an ice pick came up onstage to the s left.
And so the heavy metal crowdsdidn't know anything about the
Ramones, they didn't really likethem.
(42:51):
We played four shows with them.
Of course, later on, you know,the the people like heavy metal
crowds and uh uh Black Sabbathpeople got to love the Ramones
after a while, you know.
They they they they they theyheard the Ramones and loved
them, you know.
So that that was and thenanother thing uh with booking
agents.
Uh another time they put us on ashow with Toto, some Lake
(43:13):
George, Louisiana.
SPEAKER_03 (43:14):
That was pretty cool.
SPEAKER_02 (43:15):
So the good thing about that is when by the time
the Ramones got off stage, thethe uh audience woke up.
It was good.
So it was, you know.
SPEAKER_01 (43:24):
So what what did the guys in the Ramones think about
heavy metal and Black Sabbathand bands like that?
SPEAKER_02 (43:29):
They loved them, they loved, they were fans, you
know.
They loved they liked heavymetal and black sabbath and all
that group.
Uh they they they liked them,they like the groups, you know.
But unfortunately, the the fansat that time didn't know
anything about the Ramones, sothey just did they weren't very
intolerant with them.
And and then when we did a showup in uh Canada and Toronto, uh
opening up in Ted Nugent andArrow Smith.
(43:52):
And and at that time, theCanadian audience, they were
just small throwing food onstage sandwiches and stuff like
that.
SPEAKER_01 (43:59):
That's better than ice picks, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (44:01):
And and and batteries, and there's a very
fan, there's a famous shot.
There's a uh uh a photo outthere with right at the end,
they played a number of songs,but they they walked off stage,
they gave the finger to like the30,000 people in the in the in
the audience there in the in thebig stadium.
They just gave everybody thefinger walking off stage.
I think I've seen that.
(44:22):
So that was a problem.
So the you know, booking agentsdidn't understand them, and so
they figured they almost figuredlet's just headline you know,
not smaller venues in thebeginning, and uh it'll be it
better to just uh headline thanopen up for these crazy groups,
you know.
I think the way opened up oncefor like Mike Oldfield, Tubular
Bells, that was in Spain.
That was wow.
SPEAKER_00 (44:43):
So, Monty, you know, I mentioned that I grew up, you
know, in New York, and when Ithink of New York bands, the
Ramones is the first band that Ithink of when I think of a New
York band.
Yet they were successful inbecoming this huge band
eventually throughout thecountry and and throughout the
(45:04):
world.
But yet, no matter what, I neverreally thought of them any
different.
I always still thought of themas a New York band.
SPEAKER_02 (45:13):
Yeah, well, like they try to keep that that image
going, you know, with the withthe with the way they looked
with the leather jackets and thewell, something with the
American, American feel.
Like uh Arturo tried to createwith the with the logo an
American feel for the band, youknow?
SPEAKER_00 (45:28):
Like a presidential feel almost, you know.
SPEAKER_02 (45:30):
Well, that's where it came from.
Actually, one day they were inDC and Arturo saw the
presidential seal.
That's the presidential seal.
He took that and rearranged ituh into the to the logo.
Instead of like one side, the uhEagles holding uh arrows and and
the other and in the logo, he'sthey're the Eagles holding a
baseball bat.
What's more American thanbaseball?
(45:52):
Right, right.
They had a song Beat on the Bratwith a baseball bat, so that was
good.
And the uh original uh uhpresidential seal of Eagles
holding a uh olive branch and umArtur made into apple branches,
you know.
SPEAKER_01 (46:07):
And the banner, I think, says like in God we
trust, but instead it says heyho, let's go, right?
SPEAKER_02 (46:12):
Yeah, originally it said look out below.
SPEAKER_01 (46:14):
That was out below.
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (46:15):
And when the Litchkrieg Bach became very
popular, he put in Hey Ho, let'sgo.
And then the beautiful partabout their logo is around the
circumference, you plug and playthe different members in the
band when they came in and out.
Right, right.
So the logo changed, but you youknow, just plugging and playing
the different members in.
That was the beautiful partabout it.
Artara's an amazing person.
(46:36):
Incredible artist, wonderfullighting director, artistic
director for the band.
I'm just a shame he's gone.
SPEAKER_00 (46:44):
Yeah, he he came up with uh a ton of the backdrops
for the stage shows, right?
SPEAKER_02 (46:48):
He actually put he actually made a lot of early
backdrops in his in hisapartment.
Yeah, big loft, and he wasthere's a picture of him in, I
think it's in my book.
Uh he's on the floor therecreating uh the logo, uh uh
backdrop.
He was a great artist.
He was a wonderful artist.
And in his lighting, hislighting, like you used a lot of
(47:09):
red, white, and blue lights andwhite lights, it's just to give
that stark white feel for theRamones and a red, white, and
blue American feel.
So he was he was a wonderfullighting director, artistic
director.
SPEAKER_00 (47:19):
So at shows when pinhead is played live, one of
the road crew would come out andthey put on like the pinhead
mask.
SPEAKER_01 (47:27):
Zippy the pinhead.
SPEAKER_00 (47:29):
Yeah, and have the sign that said, you know, gabba
gaba hey.
And I read in your book thatEddie Vetter did that once.
He was like a guest pinhead.
SPEAKER_02 (47:38):
Well it's always a drum road that did the uh the uh
pinhead on that side of thestage.
Uh and we actually got theoriginal, the original pinhead
was uh there was a cone head uhand uh Ramon's t-shirt, the the
uh drum road would come out withfor the movie Rock and Roll High
School.
They made the pinhead mask.
(48:00):
We got to keep that.
SPEAKER_00 (48:01):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (48:02):
That was made by a very famous um special effects
artist, Rob Bowton.
He did a lot of special effectsfor the uh different movies.
So we got to keep that.
So that was always the drumroadies um part.
We put the uh mask on, come outwith the sign, and later on uh
one of our crew, Mitch BubblesKeller, had the dress made along
(48:26):
because they they always sawZippy the Pinhead, was uh from
Bill Griffin's uh early uhunderground comics, so they had
him in his mind.
And they originally rambling onhere, they originally saw, and
we had a day off in Clevelandbecause we had an outdoor show
and it got rained out, so theythey went to the movies and saw
(48:48):
freaks.
Yeah, 1932 Todd Browning movieFreaks.
Uh are you familiar with thatmovie?
SPEAKER_01 (48:54):
I knew that's where it came from, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (48:55):
Yes, they're real they're real freaks in the
movie.
They took they actually thatmovie got banned in in uh in
England.
It was real freaks and pinheads.
So they saw the pinhead in themovies, and let's see the
pinheads in that movie.
They're very famous.
So they said, and they wrote thesong from that movie.
SPEAKER_01 (49:11):
And and Gabba Gabba, we accept you.
That's that's from that movie.
SPEAKER_02 (49:14):
Yeah, yeah.
There's a scene where they'rethe their pinhead, the pinhead,
they're there's a scene whereone of the freaks sing Google
Gobble, Google, gobble, weaccept our we accept our one of
us.
And they write, they rewrote,they wrote the pinhead song,
Gabba, Gabba, we accept you, weaccept you from that movie.
And then they got the pinheadmask later on.
And yes, you a lot of famouspeople did want to play the
(49:34):
pinheads.
Um, it was crazy.
Eddie Fedder did it once, RobZombie did it once, Lars from uh
Lars from Nancy did it once.
People come up with him, well,they wanted to put on the mask
and put on the dress.
It was crazy.
SPEAKER_03 (49:45):
Wow.
SPEAKER_02 (49:46):
Actually, one yeah, it was amazing.
Uh actually, one time we hadsome stage fans on the side of
the stage, and um and the drumroller cut his hand bad.
So luckily at the end of theset, they took him off.
I was standing there, and so Iactually put the pinhead on once
I did the pinhead, but what thatmask stunk.
Boy, I said I'm never gonna dopinheads again.
SPEAKER_00 (50:08):
I I bet you're not gonna be able to do it.
SPEAKER_02 (50:09):
But people wanted to do it, they wanted to come out
and run around with the pinheadon.
It was crazy.
SPEAKER_00 (50:14):
Yeah, you know, it's been a lot of fun talking about
the Ramones, you know, with you,and there's so many songs.
We could sit here and talkabout, you know, just all the
songs and the different peoplethat have been in the band.
But I think, you know, Johnnyhit it right with saying that
they were an institution and andnot even realizing at the time,
(50:34):
you know, when he was thinkingit.
I mean, they really are aninstitution still.
And if you look, I think 20years from now and 30 years from
now and 50 years from now, aslong as people are still
listening to music, the Ramonesare going to be one of the bands
that people listen to.
SPEAKER_02 (50:51):
Well, you know, I think the legacy of the Ramones,
like, you know, when like JohnnyAppleseed would go around all
over the place planting applesall over the country.
I think that's what the Ramonesdid also when they would they
would go out and play all thesesmall clubs or countries early
on, and these kids would seethem.
And they would they they said ifthey remones gonna do it, it
(51:12):
wasn't hard enough to be GingerBaker and Eric Clapton or
anything, just good songs andcompetent play your music good.
And all these all these kids sawthem playing and they formed
bands and they and they gavecredit to the Ramones.
Metallica, Soundgarden, U2, uhPearl Jam.
They all said to the Ramones, wesaw you as kids, and that's why
(51:32):
we formed groups and gave themcredit.
I think that's the legacy of theRamones.
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00 (51:37):
Yeah, I would definitely agree with you on
that.
I mean, it's just if you thinkabout it, like if the Ramones
never happened, if it what wherewould we be?
You know, it just they were theright band at the right time
with the right sound and theright attitude.
I mean, I think it took all fourof them, the different
(51:58):
personalities that we talkedabout, in order to be able to
become the Ramones, that is thislasting legacy.
SPEAKER_02 (52:06):
I agree.
It's like the Beatles, you know.
All the different members hadformed the Beatles, you know,
and individually they weren'tthe Beatles, you know.
SPEAKER_00 (52:15):
That is true.
That is true.
So, Mani, it's been excellenthaving you on the show.
Um, you know, you have this bookon the road with the Ramones,
the bonus edition.
Like you mentioned earlier,there are a ton of pictures in
here.
It's good reading.
The print is big too for someonelike myself as I've gotten
older.
(52:35):
That's good.
It really is a good book.
And like I mentioned in thebeginning, you think you know
something about a band, but youdon't know half of it until you
read this book.
And it it's a really cool thingthat you've done here.
I know that you just did aspoken word tour out in the
Midwest.
What was that like for you andwhat was the reception?
SPEAKER_02 (52:56):
It was good.
People really enjoyed it.
I was able to uh, you know, it'shard because I was talking
trying to talk about 20 years ina remote in an hour and a half,
and it was it was it wasdifficult trying to put
everything into the I had alittle PowerPoint with the
pictures and some videos and andsome songs and stuff like that.
It was good.
People like enjoyed it.
I sold some books and uh I mightbe doing it again next year when
(53:20):
uh the anniversary, the first uhalbum comes up, 50 years.
SPEAKER_00 (53:25):
Wow.
That's that's almost hard tobelieve.
It really is.
You know, for me, uh, you know,I feel like I've I don't
remember not hearing theRamones, I guess is what I'm
trying to say.
You know, I remember the Ramonesin the 70s, I remember rock and
roll high school, like the moviewas coming out and it was like,
oh wow, you know, I was thisyoung kid, but I always remember
(53:47):
the Ramones.
They were one of those bandsthat I can't remember when did I
hear them the first time becauseI think I've always heard them.
Does that, you know, does thatmake sense?
SPEAKER_02 (53:57):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (53:57):
You know, that's good.
SPEAKER_02 (53:58):
That's good.
SPEAKER_01 (53:59):
Yeah.
Yeah, I was I was saying Sheenaas a punk rocker was the first
song I remember hearing becauseit was weird.
Like it was on Leave Home and itwas also on Rocket to Russia.
The the the copies that mybrother had, one was an import,
one wasn't, something like that.
And it was on both of thealbums.
But we we had Rocket to Russia,and that's the first song I
(54:20):
heard, and I was hooked when Iwas about eight.
SPEAKER_00 (54:22):
Jimmy is a punk rocker.
SPEAKER_02 (54:25):
Yeah, that's that's good.
All right.
Keep it up.
Gobba Gobble Hey.
SPEAKER_00 (54:29):
Gobba Gabba Hey.
You know, it's funny because Ido this thing when people call
up on Thanksgiving.
Uh my phone rings and I'm like,happy Thanksgiving from the
Thanksgiving turkey, wishing youand yours the very best in this
holiday season, gobble gobblehey.
And I do that every year.
That's my little tribute to theRamones.
I just have always done that.
SPEAKER_02 (54:53):
That's a good one.
I've I've seen that before.
That's good.
That's good.
I like that coop.
That's nice.
SPEAKER_00 (54:58):
Well, thank you.
And Bonnie, it's been great.
I really enjoyed having you onhere.
I know Jimmy enjoyed it as well.
It's been fun, you know, forJimmy, his favorite band, the
Ramones, and to have the tourmanager on.
He's like a kid in a candy shopover here.
SPEAKER_01 (55:11):
Scoop.
Yeah, we love it.
Thank you so much.
Um, happy to be uh on yourprogram here.
SPEAKER_00 (55:16):
And again, On the Road with the Ramones, a
fantastic book by Monty A.
Melnick and Frank Meyer, thebonus edition.
It's got like 40 additional uhpages.
It has a show that I couldn'tever find that I was at, but in
this book, it lists all theshows, and I can find it in this
book.
So this book is the real deal.
(55:38):
So I like it.
So thank you, Monty.
We really appreciate it.
Thank you for coming on theshow.
SPEAKER_02 (55:43):
Thanks again, Monty.
Thanks, guys.
It was a pleasure doing it.
SPEAKER_00 (55:46):
Thank you.
You have a great day.
You too.
All right.
Take care.
Bye.
Bye-bye.
That was fantastic.
That was great.
Hey, if you want to reach ushere at Music in My Shoes, you
can at musicIndMyshoes atgmail.com.
Please like and follow the Musicin My Shoes Facebook and
Instagram pages.
That's it for episode 103 ofMusic in My Shoes.
(56:06):
I'd like to thank Monty A.
Melnick, on the road with theRamones, tour manager from 1974
until the end of 1996.
What a fantastic guest to haveon and really enjoyed it.
I'd also like to thank JimmyGuthrie, show producer and owner
of Arcade 160 Studios, locatedright here in Atlanta, Georgia,
(56:27):
and Vic Thrill for our podcastmusic.
This is Jim Boge, and I hope youlearned something new or
remembered something old.
We'll meet again on our nextepisode.
Until then, live life and keepthe music playing.
This is Rock and Roll Radio.
Come on, let's rock and rollwith the Ramones.
SPEAKER_02 (00:07):
This is Monty A.
Melnick, Toy Manager for theRamones, and you're listening to
music in my shoes.
SPEAKER_00 (00:47):
Hey everybody, this is Jim Boj, and you're listening
to Music in My Shoes.
That was Vic Thrill kicking offepisode 103.
As always, I'm thrilled to behere with you.
Let's learn something new orremember something old.
So, Jimmy, I know your favoriteband is the Ramones.
We've talked about it on theshow many times.
Many times.
(01:08):
I love the Ramones.
We've talked about them probablymore times than we can count.
So imagine how lucky we aretoday to have Monty A.
Melnick, the tour manager of theRamones, joining us from New
York right now.
So lucky.
SPEAKER_01 (01:27):
Welcome, Monty.
SPEAKER_00 (01:28):
Monty, welcome.
Thank you for joining us onMusic in My Shoes.
SPEAKER_02 (01:32):
Well, hey ho, let's go.
SPEAKER_00 (01:34):
Yeah.
Of course, let's do it.
Hey, so one of the things Iwanted to do is I think, you
know, our listeners probablydon't know exactly everything
that a tour manager does.
And you know, you have this bookthat you've been promoting.
It's had several editions on theroad with the Ramones.
A great read.
(01:54):
I really enjoyed it.
But if you Yeah, if you couldtell our listeners a little bit
about what it entailed, all thethings that really were your
responsibility.
SPEAKER_02 (02:04):
Well, I started off early with the group before uh
they really started playingaround anywhere in performance
studios.
They they started and uh Iworked with doing sound for them
for basically for showcases.
And then when the performancestudios closed down, they they
started getting jobs outside.
So I I kind of jumped onto acrew doing uh everything in the
(02:26):
beginning, basically driving anduh doing the sound for them and
setting up equipment.
And the bigger they got, themore people we could hire, like
drum roadies and guitar roadies.
And from there, I worked on myway from road manager to tour
manager.
And uh tour manager there's alot of many, many things the
tour manager does, you know.
Uh uh basically I worked, youknow, booking shows, uh, working
(02:49):
with the uh booking agents,working with the management,
working with a record company,working with crews, of course,
working with the band.
It's a lot of different jobsthat entails tour managing.
SPEAKER_01 (03:03):
And the Ramones toured like incessantly.
So you were you were on the roada lot, right?
SPEAKER_02 (03:08):
That's a good word, incessantly.
I like that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Basically, yeah, uh, yeah,that's what that was my job to
be on the road.
I mean, I was lucky because alot of tour managers you they
join a group and then they do atour and then they they tour the
ends and then have to look foranother job.
But the remones kept me onthroughout their whole career,
basically.
(03:28):
I worked with them uh with theirvideos and worked with them when
they were rehearsing, and theykept me on the payroll for other
things besides um just touring.
But touring was the main thingwith the Ramones.
That was a meat and potatoes,basically.
They they weren't selling verymany records, that was a
problem, you know.
Touring and merchandising wasthe was the meat and potatoes
for the Ramones, basically.
SPEAKER_00 (03:48):
Yeah, and that was from uh 1974 to 1996 when the
Ramones um ended the Ramones.
So you were there basically theentire time with them.
SPEAKER_02 (03:58):
Pretty much, yeah.
I I think I'm in the beginning Iwas working basically with them
in performance studios, whichthey did a lot of showcases
there.
And then uh when they startedpicking up a lot of jobs later
on, uh I jumped onto the crew.
SPEAKER_00 (04:11):
Well, it's a fascinating book.
I enjoyed it so much.
I actually was going on Sundaymornings outside, sitting on my
porch, reading it, and my kidssaid, What has gotten into you?
Because you do not read bookslike this.
And it it just kept me where Ijust wanted to keep reading.
And it's it's it's a really goodbook.
SPEAKER_02 (04:33):
I'm glad you like it.
SPEAKER_00 (04:34):
Yeah, you you know, you really learn a lot.
I think you know, a lot of timeswe think we know a lot about
bands, but until you read a booklike this, you realize you don't
know half of what you think youknow.
SPEAKER_02 (04:46):
I was lucky enough though, though, with my
publisher back when I first putit out, they let me put in a lot
of images and posters and torquepasses.
So it's a lot of image, imagery,and things to look at, also.
SPEAKER_01 (04:58):
That's what I was gonna say.
Yeah, it's got so many amazingphotos in it and and pictures
and imagery.
unknown (05:04):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (05:05):
I was joking around for the punk rockers, you don't
have to read it, just look atthe pictures.
SPEAKER_00 (05:09):
Well, you could.
You could get the whole historyjust by looking at the pictures.
So let's go back.
You grew up with Tommy Ramonback in the day, and you guys
went to a ton of concertstogether, you know, from reading
the book, and you guys saw likeCream and Janice Joplin and Sly
in the Family Stone and ChuckBerry ten years after, Johnny
(05:32):
Winner, Jimi Hendrix, you know.
It's just it's really cool toread that in the book.
And what was it like for youguys going to that, you know,
the filmmore in in other places?
What was it like?
SPEAKER_02 (05:45):
We're very, very lucky to have the filmmore East,
Bill Grant's Film or East intown.
So and he brought in everybody.
So we we just saw all sorts ofdifferent varieties of music we
were exposed to, not just onespecific area.
That's what the beautiful partabout the Fillmore was.
It was an amazing venue.
SPEAKER_00 (06:02):
Yeah, I wish that, you know, it stayed around.
There's so many of the venuesthat you wish that they had not,
you know, ceased, you know, toexist and that they could still
have the same vibe that theyalways had.
And you know, if you look at um,you know, Winterland out in uh
San Francisco and just all thesedifferent places, if they had
(06:25):
just stayed around and had thatsame vibe, how cool it would
have been.
Now, I went to to uh I went toCBGB festival a few weeks ago in
Brooklyn, and you know, I knowit's not the same thing, but I
did get to see you know thedamned play, who was a band from
CBGB's, you know, along with theRamones, you know.
(06:45):
It was cool to be able to see aband like The Damn still playing
and still sounding good.
And I just wish that theRamones, you know,
unfortunately, the originalmembers, you know, they're not
with us.
But if they could still be heretoday and they could have played
a festival like that, what itwould have been like and what
(07:06):
the attendance would have beenlike.
SPEAKER_02 (07:08):
Did you catch Marky's?
Uh he was there, Marky Ramonesband.
SPEAKER_00 (07:12):
I was not able to catch him.
I wanted to.
It was tough to move between thestages.
That was one of the the, youknow, it was under the K bridge
there in Brooklyn, and it waskind of difficult moving around.
But I wish that I had seen him.
SPEAKER_02 (07:26):
Um Yeah, I was out of town for that.
But um, yeah, he Marky's, youknow, he plays like 99 98% Ramon
stuff.
So if you, you know, it's reallyhe's he's carrying the legacy of
the Ramones along with it, withhim, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01 (07:39):
He's got a good band too, you know.
He's got a good singer and uhguitar player and everything.
SPEAKER_02 (07:44):
He's put together a good, a good uh, a good group
there.
Where are you guys located?
SPEAKER_00 (07:49):
So we are in Atlanta, Georgia.
I grew up actually on LongIsland.
I grew up in Levittown, NewYork, and I listened to WLIR
that played a lot of Ramones.
And I moved here about 35 yearsago, so I've been down here, but
again, you know, my roots andgrowing up and as a kid, my
(08:10):
shows were all in um in NewYork.
And it's funny because I'vetalked about it before.
I went to a Ramon show at theNassau Community College back in
1985, and it's like they broughta flatbed truck on the student,
you know, courtyard.
And I remember we did somefunnels beforehand.
(08:33):
There was a bunch of us thatwent, and I was in the mosh pit,
and I remember getting elbowedin the head, and the next thing
I know, I was like knocked outon the ground, and I I couldn't
remember anything at that pointin time.
SPEAKER_02 (08:48):
What did you what did you do before?
SPEAKER_00 (08:50):
We were doing funnels, you know.
SPEAKER_02 (08:52):
What's a funnel?
SPEAKER_00 (08:53):
A funnel.
SPEAKER_01 (08:55):
A funnel beer funnel.
A beer funnel, okay.
SPEAKER_00 (08:58):
You know, where you take a funnel and you're
drinking from it and you pourand it it was actually um orange
juice and vodka, if I could behonest with you.
Oh my gosh.
And um it was just crazy.
It was a good time.
A bunch of of my friends went,you know, obviously that's 40
years ago, but uh it was somegood times of of seeing them.
(09:19):
And that was one of those thingsthat you just heard word of
mouth, hey, the Ramones areplaying at NASA Community
College, and boom, let's go.
And you know, um for Jimmy,Jimmy's first show, first
concert actually.
SPEAKER_01 (09:32):
Yeah, it was the Ramones in 1983 when I was 13
years old.
Uh they played at the AgoraBallroom here in Atlanta.
And uh all ages show.
So my older brother took me anduh it was I I was hooked.
I mean, I was already hooked.
I was a huge Ramones fan, but II it was just um life-changing.
SPEAKER_02 (09:52):
Yeah, that was a good venue in in Atlanta.
We we like playing there.
SPEAKER_00 (09:56):
Well, the show that Jimmy was at was actually the
one that Amy Carter was at thatshow.
Uh she came to soundcheck.
And can you tell us a little bitabout that?
I mean, you were there, you hadto meet her.
What was it like having thedaughter of the president in you
know at a show?
SPEAKER_02 (10:14):
Well, it's a bit intimidating with a lot of
Secret Service people aroundchecking.
She only came for thesoundcheck, unfortunately.
She didn't stay for the show.
Um, but you know, she was very abig fan, and uh, you know,
having all the Secret Serviceagents all around was a little,
you know, as I said,intimidating is a bit crazy, but
uh it was, you know, she's avery beautiful, nice person.
(10:34):
She actually wrote a little noteto them that I have.
Oh, wow.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (10:39):
Oh, that's pretty cool.
SPEAKER_02 (10:41):
Have that somewhere.
SPEAKER_00 (10:43):
Well, that's good.
I mean, um, you know, if youthink about it, like if I went
to a show, I don't know if Iwould write a note to anyone,
but it must be cool becausebeing the daughter of the
president has to be difficult,and not being able to do
everything you want to do, uh Iguess I can see why she would
write that.
So that was Jimmy's firstconcert.
So if we go back, um in thebook, you talk about Dee Dee
(11:07):
started calling himself Dee DeeRamone before the band even
started using the name Ramonesbecause he was a big Paul
McCartney fan.
And Paul would check into hotelsas Paul Ramon, but he would do
it without the E at the end.
And I just think it's a supercool story.
I mean, that they came up withthis from Dee Dee saying I'm Dee
(11:29):
Dee Ramon.
SPEAKER_02 (11:30):
Well, actually he he saw this article and he came to
the group and said, Let's makeuh call ourselves Ramones.
You know, Ramon at the end.
Uh and um that was a little bitof a problem in the early years,
you know, because people eitherthought they were some sort of a
Mexican band, or they were allbrothers, or they were a gang,
(11:53):
you know what I mean?
And so in early years it was abit of a problem, you know.
People got the wrong impression,you know, because the way they
looked with the leather jackets.
As a matter of fact, one time wewere in uh Columbus or someone
checking into a hotel early on,and I'm looking behind the desk,
and there's a little note, watchout.
This is this is a gang here.
Watch out for them, you know.
So the way they looked with theleather jackets.
(12:14):
You know, later on everybodyknew what the Ramones were, but
in the early years it was aproblem.
People thought there was someactually Danny Fields, but
there's some sort of a Mexicanband in the beginning, you know,
before he came to see them.
SPEAKER_00 (12:24):
So you mentioned Danny Fields.
So Danny Fields managed theRamones and he managed the doors
at one point.
And that to me, that's just sucha different, you know, group of
uh of musicians.
How did Danny fit in, you know,with the Ramones?
And and you know, could you seehow he was able to be with
(12:46):
different groups and yeah, wellhe well he signed Iggy and MC5
to the to the labels, you know?
SPEAKER_02 (12:53):
He worked with Jim Morrison.
I don't think he I don't thinkhe managed or did anything that,
but he worked with him in recordas a record executive when he
was doing that.
But signing you know, Iggy andthe uh MC5, he had a lot of uh
you know Ramones type things inhim.
Anyway, also Linda Stein wasco-managing the group.
Linda Stein was married toSeymour Stein.
(13:15):
Who's Seymour Stein guys?
Yes, Sire Records, right?
Sire Records.
So that's how they got theconnection to Sire Records.
So so it was a co-management,actually, Linda Stein and Danny
Fields in the beginning.
Oh, okay.
And Danny was still, you know,as I said, working with Diggy
and MC5, and he loved theRamones.
unknown (13:32):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (13:33):
He loved the Ramones.
I mean, the story calls, Ithink, uh Lisa Robinson from
Cream Magazine told Danny to godown and see the Ramones at
CBGB's.
And he was like a littlereluctant because they were
bugging him, come down seeingit.
He thought there was some sortof Mexican-Spanish band in the
beginning, you know.
So when he when he went down tosee the group, he just loved
them, said, I want to be yourmanager, you know.
(13:55):
The group said, We need$3,000for some equipment.
And he went to his mother,borrowed the money from his
mother, and uh he became themanager of the group with a lot
of uh Linda Stein.
SPEAKER_00 (14:06):
That's a great story.
I mean, it really is, just tothink that you think one thing
about a band and then you go andsee them and find out that
they're really nothing like whatyour opinion has been, you know,
formulated in your head.
And the next thing you'reborrowing money from your mother
so that you can, you know, frontthe band money for instruments
and all kinds of stuff.
I mean, that's super cool.
SPEAKER_02 (14:27):
It was creams, creams are really good uh with
the band.
He loved the band.
SPEAKER_01 (14:31):
And of course they had the song Danny Says, you
know, about about Danny and onthat same album, End of the
Century, that you you get alittle mention in there, you
know, Monty's driving me crazy,right?
SPEAKER_02 (14:41):
Well, yeah.
People come to me and say,What's your favorite Ramon song?
I like a lot of Ramon songs, butthat's my favorite.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (14:48):
You know, and that's good.
You know, it's it's reallyfunny.
A lot of times we ask peoplewhen we have them on, hey,
what's your favorite song?
And and a lot of times peoplestruggle with telling us my
favorite song is I Just WannaHave Something to Do.
I just love that song.
That is my favorite Ramon song,hands down.
And I think it was from thefirst time I heard it.
(15:09):
Jimmy, what would yours be?
SPEAKER_01 (15:11):
Oh, I don't know.
You know, I just played a gigthough.
You were at uh last weekend andI played uh Sheena's a punk
rocker.
So uh why not say that one?
That was my original firstfavorite Ramon song when I first
heard the Ramones.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (15:24):
I also like touring, touring is never boring.
Yeah, that's a good thing.
But you know, in that in thatsong All Away, which they you
know, Monty's making me crazy.
It's it's just like being in anavy, right?
Right.
You know, he's also talkingabout things that are driving
him crazy, like the van and themonitor man, and how he just
wants to have some fun.
But there's a chilling line inthis in this uh song because the
(15:45):
bubble's going to explode,probably never live to get old.
SPEAKER_01 (15:48):
Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (15:49):
Yeah, Joey wrote that back in that song.
It's kind of sad, you know.
SPEAKER_00 (15:53):
Yes, it you know, it is sad because they didn't get
to live that long,unfortunately.
SPEAKER_01 (16:00):
Well, and a lot came out in Joey's lyrics, uh, you
know, that he had that kind ofpush and pull in him.
Obviously, he struggled withwith mental health and uh, you
know, just kind of he was adifferent kind of person, right?
You know, physically and andmentally and everything.
And so I think part of that waspart of the magic of the Ramones
was that his identity of offeeling kind of like a an
(16:20):
outsider.
SPEAKER_02 (16:20):
Well, I think that's why they a lot of kids kind of
have some you know relate to theRamones a lot, you know, because
that you know, if Joey, which ishe was a total outsider and the
way he looked, can they make itbig and do something terrific
and write great songs?
You know, kids could do the samething and join groups and stuff
like that, you know?
SPEAKER_00 (16:41):
Yeah, so tell us a little bit about Joey from your
eyes.
I mean, your point of view.
You spent a ton of time withhim, and you know, I think he's
a great frontman, and you know,not just because he was this
tall dude in a leather jackethovering over the microphone,
but I think he really commandedthe stage, even though he
(17:01):
wasn't, you know, someone thatwas all over the place.
W how did you see him?
And and and what what did yousee that we don't?
SPEAKER_02 (17:09):
Well, you know, they really worked hard in the
beginning in the early years.
Uh they was just pretty raw andrough.
And they, you know, they reallyworked hard, rehearsing a lot,
playing a lot.
They played over 70 times inCPGBs and the same number of
times almost in performancestudios, just working on their
set and the way they looked andhow they worked their
(17:33):
instruments.
And Joey worked his way up fromyou know, coming, you know, he's
played drums first with theRamones.
Yeah, and then and then T washaving a hard time singing and
playing.
Actually, the first group of theRamones were three-piece with
Joey on drums, Dee Dee playingbass and singing, and Johnny on
guitar.
And uh and T D was having a hardtime singing and playing bass.
(17:55):
And they actually played oneshow in 1974 as a three-piece
group in in performance studios,but it wasn't working out.
So Tommy was there, just wantedto produce them and manage them.
Heard Joey had a good voice,pulled Joey up the drums and put
him up up on front as a frontman.
And he worked his he worked onit a while.
It took him a while to get hisold stage presence, but he was
great at that.
(18:15):
He really worked very hard.
SPEAKER_01 (18:17):
Yeah, no, you talk about the early days of the
Ramones, and I I have thesearguments with people that
aren't Ramones fans that say,oh, you know, they're just
they're so basic.
And and to me, the Ramones werealways intentionally minimalist.
I mean, I'm sure a little bit ofit came from not being virtuosos
on instruments, but I felt likethat.
It was it was very muchconceived to be something
(18:38):
different and artistic from thebeginning.
Would you agree with that?
SPEAKER_02 (18:41):
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, Tommy, I I look as Tommyas he like the architect of the
band, you know.
He came in and uh specificallygeared the group to towards that
that that specific style of ofplaying, and and and then that's
what they were good at.
Those you know, short songs andno no guitar solos, no drum
(19:05):
solos.
They didn't like all of thatstuff, you know.
So that's why they developedalong those lines.
SPEAKER_00 (19:10):
Yeah, so Mani, in your book, you described Didi as
he was a living, breathingcartoon character.
He was unlike anyone I have evermet in my entire life, and I've
met a lot of bizarre people.
Can you expand on that a littlebit?
SPEAKER_02 (19:26):
Well, that there are there are different Didies.
There are a number of differentDidies.
There was the good Didi, thegood Didi, the bad Didi, the
songwriting Didi, the singersinging Didi.
It was a multiple personality.
You know, he never knew whichDidi was going to show up.
That was the problem.
And of course, he was obsessedwith things.
He he couldn't just smoke onejoint, he had to smoke a whole
(19:48):
bag of pot.
He couldn't take one drink andhad to drink a whole bottle.
And then he was he couldn'twrite him.
The good thing about it is hecouldn't he wrote one song.
No, he wrote 10 songs in a row.
You know what I mean?
He was very impulsive like that,you know.
And it was still it was harddealing with him a lot, you
know, when it was the addictiveDidi and uh the crazy Didi and
(20:08):
uh unhappy Dee Dee, but therewas a happy Didi too, you know.
SPEAKER_01 (20:12):
Now, did Didi stay involved after CJ took over
playing bass?
SPEAKER_02 (20:16):
Yes, that was the beautiful part about that, is
because at that time Didi waslike he wasn't he wasn't there
anymore.
He didn't he said he didn't wantto be in the Ramones army
anymore, you know.
And he was trying he tried thatdraft thing for a bit.
SPEAKER_01 (20:29):
That wasn't very good.
SPEAKER_02 (20:31):
Well, the group thought, you know, get do your
rap album, get out of yoursystem.
Uh you know, fine, he'd stillstay in Ramones, just get it
that out of your system.
He did that for a brief time,but it was just was wasn't happy
with the at the end there.
Um you know when he was playingon stage, it wasn't there
(20:51):
anymore.
It's like kind of like lack,lackluster, you know.
So when he quit the group,everybody thought, you know,
this is the end of the Ramones.
I I pretty much thought that waspretty much, because he's the
main songwriter and really greaton stage in the early years when
he wasn't spacing out to the endthere.
But uh Johnny said, no, no,we'll look for another bass
player.
Uh don't worry about it.
(21:12):
Um, and they actually uhauditioned 20 different bass
players.
The first bass player theyauditioned was was CJ.
Oh and they actually picked him.
Johnny saw something in CJ rightaway.
So after looking through anumber of other bass players,
they picked CJ.
Now, the beautiful part aboutthat is so they have CJ comes
into the group and he's like ayoung guy, and so they all kind
(21:33):
of have this kind of suck intheir stomachs to keep up with
them, you know.
So he he he injected some reallylife into the group at the time,
but Didi stayed around, no, Ididn't see around, he was there
writing songs and giving themsongs too.
So they had a group wonderfulDidi songwriting and a young
Didi with its CJ there, youknow.
So that's the band like uh wenton a number of years because of
(21:55):
that.
SPEAKER_00 (21:55):
Now, I have to be honest, you know, Didi started
wearing the tracksuits, and andyou know, I think he had like
Adidas or something.
I got the no-name tracksuits.
I'm like, if Didi Ramon can wearthem, I can wear them.
And it I I look back now and I'mglad there's no pictures of me
because I looked absolutelyhorrific in those things.
SPEAKER_02 (22:14):
Well, that's a funny story.
There we were going down toWashington, D.C., we were flying
down there from New York fromRamon show, and Didi shows up in
his jumpsuit and gold chains,and John Johnny flipped out.
He said, What the fuck are youdoing?
What are you doing?
You're in the remote.
He was pissed off, you know.
You can't draw a dress likethat.
He never did, you know, he neverwore that again, basically.
(22:36):
You know, minimal, you know.
But he did try to get away withthat in the beginning.
SPEAKER_00 (22:41):
So speaking of Johnny, you talk about in the
book that he was very resistantto change.
And they all were in many ways,but he was the most hell-bent
about it.
And he believed that theystumbled upon a good thing and
there was no reason to tinkerwith it.
And he saw bands come and go,but figure the Ramones would be
like an institution, alwaysthere, always the same.
(23:05):
And I tell you, I think thatthat is the greatest line from
the standpoint the Ramones, theway people think of them today,
it is an institution.
You see these kids with Ramonshirts.
I asked my daughter uh the othernight, she's 24.
I got her a Ramon shirt, she wasin her teens.
(23:26):
I'm like, hey, do you still haveyour Ramon shirt?
She's like, Yeah.
Now, she can't necessarily namea song by the Ramones, but she
has that shirt.
And she's like, Yeah, I wouldn'tget rid of that shirt.
You know, there's a lot of otherthings that as she's gotten
older, she's gotten rid of, butshe didn't get rid of that.
And I really think that theRamones are an institution, and
(23:48):
as much as they didn't sellrecords the the way they wanted
to, they have made such a hugeimpact on music.
Something that do you think thatthey realized that in their
lifetime, how big and importantthey were to so many people?
SPEAKER_02 (24:04):
No, they never figured that out.
Unfortunately, they passed awaybefore they became so big.
I mean, you go to another thingis you go to sports events, you
know, baseball, football,basketball, and then chanting,
hey hell, let's go.
Right.
You know, it's it's on jock rockalbums.
SPEAKER_03 (24:20):
Yes, yes.
SPEAKER_02 (24:22):
That's unbelievable.
And uh and since I said, Yeah, Isee people with the Ramone
shirts.
A lot of them know the Ramones,but a lot of them don't know the
Ramones.
It's just like the the iconicimage, the all-American image of
the band that they they try toput through with the with that
logo, which our Toto Vega, Igotta give him credit, came up
with.
This amazing person.
SPEAKER_01 (24:41):
Yeah, incredible, incredible.
SPEAKER_02 (24:44):
Yeah, as I said, that the the the shirts like
huge, the logo's big, and a lotof people take that took that
logo and did other things withtheir own bands, kind of copied
it.
But um yeah, the these days, youknow, people say in one shape,
Ramones, Beatles stones in onebreath, and it kind of makes me
feel oh wow, this isunbelievable, you know.
SPEAKER_00 (25:06):
Well, uh think about it, Jimmy.
I mean, we've probably talkedabout the Beatles, the Rolling
Stones, and the Ramones morethan any other band.
You know, we're on episode 103.
And if you think about it, thatprobably comes down to the bands
we talk about the most.
SPEAKER_01 (25:23):
Well, and it's hard to say that any band from, say,
the 80s on would be the sameband they are without those
three bands, right?
With without at least one ofthem.
You know, and any band that'slike alternative or punk is
completely standing on theshoulders of the Ramones.
SPEAKER_02 (25:41):
And I have I have I have a little joke they tell too
many times, though.
I mean, um, you know, seeing theRamones talk with the same, you
know, Beatles, Ramones, Stones,and all that.
I said, if the Ramones were thisbig when I was working for them,
I would have gotten a big raise.
I mean, they're huge now.
I mean, unfortunately, they'rethe four the originals, and I
don't have to see how big theyare, you know.
(26:01):
And there's a Pfizer commercialout now that's a hey, hold on,
let's go to the plane.
I don't know if you've heardthat recently.
I did hear that.
Yeah.
They're playing that a lot.
You know, it's amazing.
SPEAKER_00 (26:11):
You know, it is.
So, where does all the money gotoday for all the shirts that
people are buying?
SPEAKER_02 (26:18):
Yeah.
Well, uh they're basically overthe years, Johnny and Joey
formed a corporation after Didileft and and uh Tommy left
early.
They formed a corporation.
And when uh Joey passed away, heleft his half to his.
(26:38):
It was Johnny and Joey in thecorporation.
When Joey passed away, he lefthalf to his mother, and who his
mother passed away left it toMickey Lee, was Joey's brother.
And Johnny married Linda, and hepassed away and left it to
Linda.
So the main people on theRamones corporation now are
Linda and uh Mickey.
And they there's money flowingin for them, let me tell you.
SPEAKER_00 (27:00):
I bet there is.
I mean, seriously, I see Ramonshirts all the time.
If you go into stores, you seethem.
They're everywhere.
There's more Ramones stuff outtoday than I think what there
was when I was a kid.
SPEAKER_02 (27:14):
Yeah.
It's all over they theymerchandise a lot of stuff.
But in the early years, I mean,merchandising was a part of the
Ramones that that was reallythey they counted on that
because they really weren'tmaking a lot of money selling
records.
So touring and merchandising,selling t-shirts and other
things at the at the venues waswas their main income,
basically.
SPEAKER_00 (27:33):
So a good friend of mine, a childhood friend of
mine, so the how Tommy Ramon wasto you meeting when you were a
young age and you guys did alot.
For me, my childhood friend wasChris Cassidy.
And Chris Cassidy um directedthe Dennison Lois documentary.
SPEAKER_02 (27:51):
Oh.
SPEAKER_00 (27:51):
And you were you were on the Dennison Lois
documentary, and you got to seeuh Joey's pants that he had worn
a thousand times.
I'm just making that up, but itseemed like he wore them a lot.
There are a lot of holes inthem.
SPEAKER_02 (28:04):
And he didn't wore them a thousand times.
SPEAKER_00 (28:07):
And Dennison Lois had helped out with
merchandising.
It's kind of like their firstdate was going to CBGB's and you
know, seeing the Ramones andsaying, hey, you you know, you
guys don't have to come runningout here to do the stuff.
We'll do it for you, and and soforth.
What was it like to be able toget some fans that could help
(28:27):
out and just do a little bit andtake a little bit off the
shoulders of of the band so thatyou could still sell stuff?
SPEAKER_02 (28:35):
Yeah, well, um uh that was great for Arturo.
Because initially, when we firstwhen they first started out,
they couldn't afford to haveArturo come on the road.
So uh early on, and he said,Well, I'll print up some
t-shirts and bring them on theroad, and that'll pay for my
way, his way on to tour with theRamones early.
So that's how the t-shirtsstarted early on.
(28:56):
He's he had a loft so he couldprint t-shirts and hang them up
on pipes and the and he designedhis shirts and stuff like that
and silk screened them, broughtthem on the road.
But he was also running lightstoo.
He was also lighting director inthe early years.
So what he would do is like runthe lights, and at the end of
the set he put just like whitelights on, run out to the front
(29:17):
of the house, wherever it was,and sell shirts.
So it was pretty crazy for himin the beginning.
There, he was running back andforth, you know.
After the show, he had to comeout and sell shorts, shirts.
So when Dennis and Lois camealong, you know, that was a
great help for him, you know.
SPEAKER_00 (29:31):
Yeah, and I think for them it was great because
they're like, oh yeah, we helpedthe Ramones with uh selling
shirts, and then that led tothis band and that band, you
know.
SPEAKER_02 (29:40):
Yeah, you know, they were really great.
They were really great people tohave on the road, you know,
having super fans like that onthe road with us uh when they
came out and helping Arturo andselling shirts and stuff was
really great.
And yeah, and their house isinsane.
I mean, they can't their houseis like wall to wall stuff, you
know, of other not only remote.
(30:03):
I don't know if you know youknow about that, right?
SPEAKER_00 (30:06):
Yes, from the movie that you get to see.
SPEAKER_02 (30:07):
And it was Unbelievable that that house is
like packed with stuff, youknow?
SPEAKER_00 (30:11):
Yeah.
And you know, when you watch itand you watch, you know, the
scenes that you're in, youalmost look amazed when you're
in that area where the Ramonstuff is, like, you can't even
believe all the stuff that theyhave and that they actually have
that pair of pants.
I mean, if if you've not seenit, you should you know, to the
listeners, you should check itout because this pair of pants,
(30:33):
I don't know how anybody couldput them on.
They were so holy.
It was it looked like it wasimpossible to be done.
Um but, you know, very, verycool, you know, like again, how
they were able to take it andand start doing, you know, merch
for all these other bands, youknow, that you know, whether it
was Happy Mondays, Oasis, youknow, just all these different
(30:54):
bands that was just super cool.
So if we if we go back to theold days here, and maybe you can
help me understand this.
Uh, math is not my my best thinghere.
SPEAKER_02 (31:04):
It's funny because you're talking about Dennis and
Lois.
First of all, there's there'sonly one place in the world
there's a Ramones museum that'sin Berlin.
Right.
He's another person that has anincredible collection of just
Ramon stuff, you know what Imean?
SPEAKER_03 (31:18):
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_02 (31:18):
So and but it's that's weird that it should be
in New York, but of course thatthat never happened.
They he opened up this museum inBerlin, a guy named Flo is a
really wonderful.
If you ever get to Berlin, yougotta go see it.
Just reopened there recently.
SPEAKER_01 (31:31):
And you know, Berlin, uh, from old Hanoi to
East Berlin, Commando involvedagain, you know.
SPEAKER_02 (31:36):
Yeah.
That was good, Jimmy.
Thanks.
And also, so I was doing thisMidwestern thing.
My friend Lauren Cone arrangedthat I could stay at this guy's
last show was in Chicago at thisguy's house, Bill.
He's a huge Ramones fan.
So I go down to this basement,his basement's just full of
Ramones stuff.
Wall-to-wall Ramone stuff.
Unbelievable.
(31:57):
You know, just almost likeDennis Muller, but it's you
know, people collect stuff, youknow.
It's amazing.
SPEAKER_00 (32:03):
Yeah, it really is.
And like you mentioned, youknow, Dennis and Lois, they
collect they collect likeeverything.
SPEAKER_02 (32:10):
They have I mean, they got the house full of
unbelievable other things there.
SPEAKER_00 (32:14):
And you know, toys and this and that, and you know,
I remember reading in the bookthat if they played CBGBs three
times a week at five dollars ahead, and they kept the 3,000
they made off the 600 people ateach show.
What did CBGBs, how did theymake money?
(32:35):
Was it just from sellingalcohol?
I mean, if the Ramones werekeeping all the money, what how
did C BGBs operate?
What was what was their take onstuff?
SPEAKER_02 (32:44):
No, that was just yeah, that no, we got the door
basically.
And we weren't uh we were alittle suspicious of Hilly too,
so we always had someonecounting at the door on our own,
you know what I mean?
Right.
No, that was part of the deal.
Uh I mean, uh the door and it'sHilly's, you know, people come
in and they bought a lot of youknow, booze and whatever.
Where he was he was and and andthen C BGBs is happy with that,
(33:08):
basically, in the in the earlyyears.
We that's the deal they had.
SPEAKER_00 (33:11):
And what did you think of going down to C BGBs at
the time where I mean, if youthink of all the bands that
were, you know, playing there,whether it was the Ramones or
whether it was uh Patty Smithgroup or Blondie or Television
or Talking Heads or a number ofdifferent other bands, what was
that scene like?
And did you think that all thesebands were, you know, not all of
(33:34):
them, but a ton of these bandswere going to blow up and be
just huge?
SPEAKER_02 (33:37):
Well, you know, Seabees was at that time was a
really crappy neighborhood.
The Lower East Side was not agreat place to be around uh, you
know, there was like bums andflop houses and salvation army
there, about bending buildingsand junkies and stuff like that.
But um also you could live downthere pretty cheaply, you know,
if you wanted to put up with allthe craziness that was going on.
(33:59):
So that's why a lot of bandsmoved down there and were in the
neighborhood.
And uh in early years, the onlypeople in the in the in the
CBGBs are the bands watchingother bands, you know, because
and they became very friendlywith a lot of groups, you know,
Blondie and Talking Heads andPatty Smith and Television and
all the people that that weredown there.
That that's were the only theonly people that were in the the
(34:22):
uh C BGBs at that time wereother bands.
That was the beautiful partabout uh Hilly, you know, at
that time uh clubs just wantedyou to play top 40 music.
You couldn't go into a club andplay anything but top 40 music.
But Hilly says come into theclub and do your own uh stuff.
As long as people came in anddrank, and he was happy about
(34:44):
that, you know, had some peoplein the club.
So that's the beautiful partabout CBGB's having, you know,
it gave it a shot to all thesebands to uh work on their
material.
And MS the Ramones played lowover 70 times.
I don't know if you saw anyearly shows of the Ramones.
It was raw.
They had to work on their set,they had to work on their music,
you know, they had to work onplaying their instruments.
(35:05):
That's the beautiful part aboutCBGB's.
It gave all these bandsopportunity to come in and work
on their original stuff.
SPEAKER_00 (35:11):
And it worked out well for them.
It worked out for many of thebands.
SPEAKER_02 (35:16):
Oh, yeah, definitely.
And for Hilly too, it becamethat place became really famous
world famous.
SPEAKER_00 (35:22):
If you think about it, that makes sense because how
many times do you see somebodywith a CBGB shirt on as well?
That you know, Ramones, C BGB,you know, it it all makes sense.
Um, it really does.
So Tommy left the group in 1978,and it had an impact on the band
in in multiple ways.
(35:42):
And what was that like withTommy leaving and bringing Marky
in?
SPEAKER_02 (35:47):
Well, as I said earlier, Tommy brought the
Ramones in as a three-piecegroup just to produce them and
manage them, you know?
And when it came when it came topoint where they couldn't, Didi
couldn't sing and play bass,they pulled Joey up the drums,
they started looking fordrummers, but no no drummers
couldn't understand what theywere doing early on.
They just it was not there wasjust something from another
(36:09):
world that these drummers wouldcome in and just couldn't, they
didn't know what to do.
So Tommy would sit down on thedrums and play along with them.
He was actually a guitar player,but he was a great musician.
But he developed a specific drumstyle for the Ramones, specific
drum style.
So they asked him to join thegroup.
He could be he became TommyRamon.
And I think 1974, uh August,they played their first show as
(36:32):
a four-piece in C BGB's.
That's how when they firststarted back then, C BGB's.
So as I said, Tommy he justwanted to produce some
management, but it was touringwas for him was to too grinding.
He just it was just too much forhim, you know, to handle it.
And it's it is it is a very drygrinding thing, you know, city
after city, getting in and outof the van and uh driving
(36:55):
hundreds of miles, and you know,stuff like that.
In the early years was crappyhotels and small clubs.
It was it was just it was it washard.
So he he had enough, and he saidhe he he decided he's gonna
leave the band, but he's he wasstaying around and produced them
and helped them with with theirmusic.
So that's what there was thegood part about that whole
thing, you know.
And so so he he he left, andthen uh when he when Marky they
(37:20):
they knew Marky from CBGB'sdays.
Um Marky's a great jumper.
He's in a group like Dust andRichard Hell and the Voidoids.
He was hanging around with them.
They he they they knew eachother pretty well, the band and
and uh Marky.
So uh, but when he first camein, uh Tommy had to sit down
with him for a while, like acouple of weeks or about a
month, and show Markey thespecific style that Tommy
(37:45):
created for the drumming starfor the Ramones, you know?
SPEAKER_00 (37:48):
Right.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (37:49):
So that's how so that's how Marky got into the
group, and uh it was uh Tommyhelped him get into it with the
with the drum style he hedeveloped.
SPEAKER_00 (37:58):
Yeah, you mentioned uh he played with Richard Helen,
the voidoids, and you know, a areal good song from the 70s is
uh Blank Generation, a song Ilike a ton.
Not better than any Ramon song,but I do like that song a lot.
And Marky was Mark Bell at thetime and was the drummer on that
song.
unknown (38:18):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (38:18):
Did you ever hear his dust stuff?
His heavy metal stuff is prettygood.
I have not.
Jimmy, have you?
No, I haven't.
Yeah, they should pick up thatwas before uh everything, you
know, earlier early on, beforehell and all that.
Uh really good group.
I think Kenny Aronson was inthat group.
I think he played with someother people later on, and uh
it's a good group.
SPEAKER_00 (38:37):
Did you say Kenny Aronson was in that group?
SPEAKER_02 (38:39):
Yeah, I think so.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (38:40):
Oh wow, yeah.
I might have to check it out.
So speaking of groups, I knowthat you dabbled a little bit in
bands in the beginning.
What um what was that like foryou?
SPEAKER_02 (38:50):
Well, it was an experience.
You know, as I said, I grew upwith Tommy.
We went to um junior high schooltogether, and then we went to
high school together, and thenafter we graduated high school,
1967, I saw wow.
Um uh yesterday.
Yeah, right.
That's what I wish it wasyesterday.
Uh uh, he asked me to pick up abass to play bass.
(39:12):
I had never played anyinstruments before, but I picked
it up pretty quickly.
And as you see in the book, Iformed a I was in several groups
with Tommy before the Ramones,you know.
One group was Triad, and anothergroup was Butch.
And then I got hooked up inbetween Triad and Butch.
Uh there was a group called 30Days Out.
Uh, this guy named Jack Malakinhad a recording studio as he
(39:35):
putting together a band.
And he asked Tommy and I toaudition for it, but they didn't
need another guitar player, soTommy didn't make the band.
But Jack got him some jobs um ina recording studio as assistant
engineer.
So that's when Tommy gotinvolved in the recording aspect
of it.
And I joined this group 30 DaysOut.
We had two albums on one of theTrees 7172.
(39:59):
And you know, and then I joineda group with with Tommy after
that like a uh almost like aglam glam band there called
Butch with Jeff Sandler in thatgroup.
Remember the Tough Tarts?
I don't know if you remember theTough Darts.
Yeah.
He was in that group with us.
And uh then that was you know, Ihad a bit of a career playing
(40:19):
bass there for a while.
SPEAKER_01 (40:20):
That's so cool.
SPEAKER_00 (40:21):
That is cool.
SPEAKER_01 (40:22):
So uh another thing you made me think about talking
about uh Tommy and his producingwas what a bold choice it was on
that first record to put theguitar all the way to the left
speaker and the bass all the wayto the right.
It was like such a somethingthat would be on like a Beatles
stereo album or something.
SPEAKER_02 (40:41):
Yeah, though Tommy's very influenced with the Beatles
stuff and like that.
And also got credit to CraigLeon on that first album, too.
He was producing, and Tommy wasthere right along with him,
basically, you know?
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_00 (40:52):
So I believe that we had in 2023, I think it was our
sixth episode, if I'm notmistaken, Jimmy.
We had your brother and a friendof yours that had gone to the
Omni here in Atlanta, and theysaw Black Sabbath, Van Halen
with the Ramones opening up, andthey only went for the Ramones.
SPEAKER_01 (41:15):
Yeah, they left after the Ramones.
SPEAKER_00 (41:16):
They left after the Ramones, and they said there
wasn't many people there for theRamones, and and people didn't
really like the Ramones.
They didn't know who they wereor what they were about.
Trevor Burrus, Jr.
SPEAKER_01 (41:26):
But there was a group of like a hundred kids in
the front going crazy.
SPEAKER_00 (41:29):
Right.
Because they knew what it wasabout, and they all left.
They could care less about VanHalen and they could care less
about Black Sabbath.
And I know you talk about thatin the in the book, Monty,
about, you know, differentthings with not being able to
tour with the right bandsbecause no one knew what to do
with the Ramones, and finallythe Ramones kind of said, we
(41:49):
need to be the headlinersbecause it's the only way.
SPEAKER_02 (41:52):
That was a problem with the booking agents.
We went through a number ofdifferent booking agents, just
didn't understand what theRamones were, so they stuck them
on shows.
Well, in between filming forRock and Roll High School, 1978,
79, 78, we had they weren'tmaking a lot for the movie.
They were only being paid like$25,000 for the movies, nothing.
So they we had to get some giguh gigs in between.
(42:15):
We had like a week off inbetween filming.
So they booked us for four showswith Black Sabbath back then.
And now at that time, '78, notnobody knew what the Ramones
were.
But the heavy metal crowd didn'tknow the Ramones.
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (42:28):
No.
SPEAKER_02 (42:29):
So that was a big problem when we went on then
when the Ramones went on.
They were throwing stuff and itwas you know, they were throwing
like coins and batteries, and itwas kind of a little not very
good at the times.
Actually, an ice pick came up onstage to the s left.
And so the heavy metal crowdsdidn't know anything about the
Ramones, they didn't really likethem.
(42:51):
We played four shows with them.
Of course, later on, you know,the the people like heavy metal
crowds and uh uh Black Sabbathpeople got to love the Ramones
after a while, you know.
They they they they they theyheard the Ramones and loved
them, you know.
So that that was and thenanother thing uh with booking
agents.
Uh another time they put us on ashow with Toto, some Lake
(43:13):
George, Louisiana.
SPEAKER_03 (43:14):
That was pretty cool.
SPEAKER_02 (43:15):
So the good thing about that is when by the time
the Ramones got off stage, thethe uh audience woke up.
It was good.
So it was, you know.
SPEAKER_01 (43:24):
So what what did the guys in the Ramones think about
heavy metal and Black Sabbathand bands like that?
SPEAKER_02 (43:29):
They loved them, they loved, they were fans, you
know.
They loved they liked heavymetal and black sabbath and all
that group.
Uh they they they liked them,they like the groups, you know.
But unfortunately, the the fansat that time didn't know
anything about the Ramones, sothey just did they weren't very
intolerant with them.
And and then when we did a showup in uh Canada and Toronto, uh
opening up in Ted Nugent andArrow Smith.
(43:52):
And and at that time, theCanadian audience, they were
just small throwing food onstage sandwiches and stuff like
that.
SPEAKER_01 (43:59):
That's better than ice picks, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (44:01):
And and and batteries, and there's a very
fan, there's a famous shot.
There's a uh uh a photo outthere with right at the end,
they played a number of songs,but they they walked off stage,
they gave the finger to like the30,000 people in the in the in
the audience there in the in thebig stadium.
They just gave everybody thefinger walking off stage.
I think I've seen that.
(44:22):
So that was a problem.
So the you know, booking agentsdidn't understand them, and so
they figured they almost figuredlet's just headline you know,
not smaller venues in thebeginning, and uh it'll be it
better to just uh headline thanopen up for these crazy groups,
you know.
I think the way opened up oncefor like Mike Oldfield, Tubular
Bells, that was in Spain.
That was wow.
SPEAKER_00 (44:43):
So, Monty, you know, I mentioned that I grew up, you
know, in New York, and when Ithink of New York bands, the
Ramones is the first band that Ithink of when I think of a New
York band.
Yet they were successful inbecoming this huge band
eventually throughout thecountry and and throughout the
(45:04):
world.
But yet, no matter what, I neverreally thought of them any
different.
I always still thought of themas a New York band.
SPEAKER_02 (45:13):
Yeah, well, like they try to keep that that image
going, you know, with the withthe with the way they looked
with the leather jackets and thewell, something with the
American, American feel.
Like uh Arturo tried to createwith the with the logo an
American feel for the band, youknow?
SPEAKER_00 (45:28):
Like a presidential feel almost, you know.
SPEAKER_02 (45:30):
Well, that's where it came from.
Actually, one day they were inDC and Arturo saw the
presidential seal.
That's the presidential seal.
He took that and rearranged ituh into the to the logo.
Instead of like one side, the uhEagles holding uh arrows and and
the other and in the logo, he'sthey're the Eagles holding a
baseball bat.
What's more American thanbaseball?
(45:52):
Right, right.
They had a song Beat on the Bratwith a baseball bat, so that was
good.
And the uh original uh uhpresidential seal of Eagles
holding a uh olive branch and umArtur made into apple branches,
you know.
SPEAKER_01 (46:07):
And the banner, I think, says like in God we
trust, but instead it says heyho, let's go, right?
SPEAKER_02 (46:12):
Yeah, originally it said look out below.
SPEAKER_01 (46:14):
That was out below.
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (46:15):
And when the Litchkrieg Bach became very
popular, he put in Hey Ho, let'sgo.
And then the beautiful partabout their logo is around the
circumference, you plug and playthe different members in the
band when they came in and out.
Right, right.
So the logo changed, but you youknow, just plugging and playing
the different members in.
That was the beautiful partabout it.
Artara's an amazing person.
(46:36):
Incredible artist, wonderfullighting director, artistic
director for the band.
I'm just a shame he's gone.
SPEAKER_00 (46:44):
Yeah, he he came up with uh a ton of the backdrops
for the stage shows, right?
SPEAKER_02 (46:48):
He actually put he actually made a lot of early
backdrops in his in hisapartment.
Yeah, big loft, and he wasthere's a picture of him in, I
think it's in my book.
Uh he's on the floor therecreating uh the logo, uh uh
backdrop.
He was a great artist.
He was a wonderful artist.
And in his lighting, hislighting, like you used a lot of
(47:09):
red, white, and blue lights andwhite lights, it's just to give
that stark white feel for theRamones and a red, white, and
blue American feel.
So he was he was a wonderfullighting director, artistic
director.
SPEAKER_00 (47:19):
So at shows when pinhead is played live, one of
the road crew would come out andthey put on like the pinhead
mask.
SPEAKER_01 (47:27):
Zippy the pinhead.
SPEAKER_00 (47:29):
Yeah, and have the sign that said, you know, gabba
gaba hey.
And I read in your book thatEddie Vetter did that once.
He was like a guest pinhead.
SPEAKER_02 (47:38):
Well it's always a drum road that did the uh the uh
pinhead on that side of thestage.
Uh and we actually got theoriginal, the original pinhead
was uh there was a cone head uhand uh Ramon's t-shirt, the the
uh drum road would come out withfor the movie Rock and Roll High
School.
They made the pinhead mask.
(48:00):
We got to keep that.
SPEAKER_00 (48:01):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (48:02):
That was made by a very famous um special effects
artist, Rob Bowton.
He did a lot of special effectsfor the uh different movies.
So we got to keep that.
So that was always the drumroadies um part.
We put the uh mask on, come outwith the sign, and later on uh
one of our crew, Mitch BubblesKeller, had the dress made along
(48:26):
because they they always sawZippy the Pinhead, was uh from
Bill Griffin's uh early uhunderground comics, so they had
him in his mind.
And they originally rambling onhere, they originally saw, and
we had a day off in Clevelandbecause we had an outdoor show
and it got rained out, so theythey went to the movies and saw
(48:48):
freaks.
Yeah, 1932 Todd Browning movieFreaks.
Uh are you familiar with thatmovie?
SPEAKER_01 (48:54):
I knew that's where it came from, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (48:55):
Yes, they're real they're real freaks in the
movie.
They took they actually thatmovie got banned in in uh in
England.
It was real freaks and pinheads.
So they saw the pinhead in themovies, and let's see the
pinheads in that movie.
They're very famous.
So they said, and they wrote thesong from that movie.
SPEAKER_01 (49:11):
And and Gabba Gabba, we accept you.
That's that's from that movie.
SPEAKER_02 (49:14):
Yeah, yeah.
There's a scene where they'rethe their pinhead, the pinhead,
they're there's a scene whereone of the freaks sing Google
Gobble, Google, gobble, weaccept our we accept our one of
us.
And they write, they rewrote,they wrote the pinhead song,
Gabba, Gabba, we accept you, weaccept you from that movie.
And then they got the pinheadmask later on.
And yes, you a lot of famouspeople did want to play the
(49:34):
pinheads.
Um, it was crazy.
Eddie Fedder did it once, RobZombie did it once, Lars from uh
Lars from Nancy did it once.
People come up with him, well,they wanted to put on the mask
and put on the dress.
It was crazy.
SPEAKER_03 (49:45):
Wow.
SPEAKER_02 (49:46):
Actually, one yeah, it was amazing.
Uh actually, one time we hadsome stage fans on the side of
the stage, and um and the drumroller cut his hand bad.
So luckily at the end of theset, they took him off.
I was standing there, and so Iactually put the pinhead on once
I did the pinhead, but what thatmask stunk.
Boy, I said I'm never gonna dopinheads again.
SPEAKER_00 (50:08):
I I bet you're not gonna be able to do it.
SPEAKER_02 (50:09):
But people wanted to do it, they wanted to come out
and run around with the pinheadon.
It was crazy.
SPEAKER_00 (50:14):
Yeah, you know, it's been a lot of fun talking about
the Ramones, you know, with you,and there's so many songs.
We could sit here and talkabout, you know, just all the
songs and the different peoplethat have been in the band.
But I think, you know, Johnnyhit it right with saying that
they were an institution and andnot even realizing at the time,
(50:34):
you know, when he was thinkingit.
I mean, they really are aninstitution still.
And if you look, I think 20years from now and 30 years from
now and 50 years from now, aslong as people are still
listening to music, the Ramonesare going to be one of the bands
that people listen to.
SPEAKER_02 (50:51):
Well, you know, I think the legacy of the Ramones,
like, you know, when like JohnnyAppleseed would go around all
over the place planting applesall over the country.
I think that's what the Ramonesdid also when they would they
would go out and play all thesesmall clubs or countries early
on, and these kids would seethem.
And they would they they said ifthey remones gonna do it, it
(51:12):
wasn't hard enough to be GingerBaker and Eric Clapton or
anything, just good songs andcompetent play your music good.
And all these all these kids sawthem playing and they formed
bands and they and they gavecredit to the Ramones.
Metallica, Soundgarden, U2, uhPearl Jam.
They all said to the Ramones, wesaw you as kids, and that's why
(51:32):
we formed groups and gave themcredit.
I think that's the legacy of theRamones.
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00 (51:37):
Yeah, I would definitely agree with you on
that.
I mean, it's just if you thinkabout it, like if the Ramones
never happened, if it what wherewould we be?
You know, it just they were theright band at the right time
with the right sound and theright attitude.
I mean, I think it took all fourof them, the different
(51:58):
personalities that we talkedabout, in order to be able to
become the Ramones, that is thislasting legacy.
SPEAKER_02 (52:06):
I agree.
It's like the Beatles, you know.
All the different members hadformed the Beatles, you know,
and individually they weren'tthe Beatles, you know.
SPEAKER_00 (52:15):
That is true.
That is true.
So, Mani, it's been excellenthaving you on the show.
Um, you know, you have this bookon the road with the Ramones,
the bonus edition.
Like you mentioned earlier,there are a ton of pictures in
here.
It's good reading.
The print is big too for someonelike myself as I've gotten
older.
(52:35):
That's good.
It really is a good book.
And like I mentioned in thebeginning, you think you know
something about a band, but youdon't know half of it until you
read this book.
And it it's a really cool thingthat you've done here.
I know that you just did aspoken word tour out in the
Midwest.
What was that like for you andwhat was the reception?
SPEAKER_02 (52:56):
It was good.
People really enjoyed it.
I was able to uh, you know, it'shard because I was talking
trying to talk about 20 years ina remote in an hour and a half,
and it was it was it wasdifficult trying to put
everything into the I had alittle PowerPoint with the
pictures and some videos and andsome songs and stuff like that.
It was good.
People like enjoyed it.
I sold some books and uh I mightbe doing it again next year when
(53:20):
uh the anniversary, the first uhalbum comes up, 50 years.
SPEAKER_00 (53:25):
Wow.
That's that's almost hard tobelieve.
It really is.
You know, for me, uh, you know,I feel like I've I don't
remember not hearing theRamones, I guess is what I'm
trying to say.
You know, I remember the Ramonesin the 70s, I remember rock and
roll high school, like the moviewas coming out and it was like,
oh wow, you know, I was thisyoung kid, but I always remember
(53:47):
the Ramones.
They were one of those bandsthat I can't remember when did I
hear them the first time becauseI think I've always heard them.
Does that, you know, does thatmake sense?
SPEAKER_02 (53:57):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (53:57):
You know, that's good.
SPEAKER_02 (53:58):
That's good.
SPEAKER_01 (53:59):
Yeah.
Yeah, I was I was saying Sheenaas a punk rocker was the first
song I remember hearing becauseit was weird.
Like it was on Leave Home and itwas also on Rocket to Russia.
The the the copies that mybrother had, one was an import,
one wasn't, something like that.
And it was on both of thealbums.
But we we had Rocket to Russia,and that's the first song I
(54:20):
heard, and I was hooked when Iwas about eight.
SPEAKER_00 (54:22):
Jimmy is a punk rocker.
SPEAKER_02 (54:25):
Yeah, that's that's good.
All right.
Keep it up.
Gobba Gobble Hey.
SPEAKER_00 (54:29):
Gobba Gabba Hey.
You know, it's funny because Ido this thing when people call
up on Thanksgiving.
Uh my phone rings and I'm like,happy Thanksgiving from the
Thanksgiving turkey, wishing youand yours the very best in this
holiday season, gobble gobblehey.
And I do that every year.
That's my little tribute to theRamones.
I just have always done that.
SPEAKER_02 (54:53):
That's a good one.
I've I've seen that before.
That's good.
That's good.
I like that coop.
That's nice.
SPEAKER_00 (54:58):
Well, thank you.
And Bonnie, it's been great.
I really enjoyed having you onhere.
I know Jimmy enjoyed it as well.
It's been fun, you know, forJimmy, his favorite band, the
Ramones, and to have the tourmanager on.
He's like a kid in a candy shopover here.
SPEAKER_01 (55:11):
Scoop.
Yeah, we love it.
Thank you so much.
Um, happy to be uh on yourprogram here.
SPEAKER_00 (55:16):
And again, On the Road with the Ramones, a
fantastic book by Monty A.
Melnick and Frank Meyer, thebonus edition.
It's got like 40 additional uhpages.
It has a show that I couldn'tever find that I was at, but in
this book, it lists all theshows, and I can find it in this
book.
So this book is the real deal.
(55:38):
So I like it.
So thank you, Monty.
We really appreciate it.
Thank you for coming on theshow.
SPEAKER_02 (55:43):
Thanks again, Monty.
Thanks, guys.
It was a pleasure doing it.
SPEAKER_00 (55:46):
Thank you.
You have a great day.
You too.
All right.
Take care.
Bye.
Bye-bye.
That was fantastic.
That was great.
Hey, if you want to reach ushere at Music in My Shoes, you
can at musicIndMyshoes atgmail.com.
Please like and follow the Musicin My Shoes Facebook and
Instagram pages.
That's it for episode 103 ofMusic in My Shoes.
(56:06):
I'd like to thank Monty A.
Melnick, on the road with theRamones, tour manager from 1974
until the end of 1996.
What a fantastic guest to haveon and really enjoyed it.
I'd also like to thank JimmyGuthrie, show producer and owner
of Arcade 160 Studios, locatedright here in Atlanta, Georgia,
(56:27):
and Vic Thrill for our podcastmusic.
This is Jim Boge, and I hope youlearned something new or
remembered something old.
We'll meet again on our nextepisode.
Until then, live life and keepthe music playing.
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