February 4, 2025 • 31 mins
Ever wondered how did people produce music in the 80s or how to produce 80s music with authenticity? In this episode of Inside The Mix, hosts Marc and Aisle9 break down the essential 80s music production techniques, from analyzing reference tracks to choosing the right instruments and effects.
Whether you're crafting synthwave, pop, or rock, this episode will help you capture the nostalgic magic of the era while avoiding modern production pitfalls.
What You'll Learn:
• How to analyse 80s reference tracks for structure and composition
• Essential synths, drum machines, and live recording techniques
• Why avoiding modern production habits, like heavy side-chain compression, is crucial
• The importance of clarity and moderation in mixing for an authentic 80s feel
• How studio experiences shape production choices and workflow
• Why focusing on one or two techniques per project leads to better results
• Understanding the historical context behind 80s music production techniques
Tune in for expert insights and practical strategies to bring the legendary 80s sound to life!
Got a question? I’d love to hear from you! Click here to submit a question, share your social media handles or website, and get featured in a future episode.
Plus, one lucky question will win a Starbucks voucher each month!
Book your FREE 20 Minute Discovery Call
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Thanks for listening!!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Marc Matthews (00:00):
Who was it?
I'm sure again, all thesestories are coming to mind now
and I don't know if this is trueor not, but they flew someone
in just to overdub a hi-hat.
Xander Phillips (00:09):
You're listening to the Inside the Mix
podcast with your host, MarkMatthews.
Marc Matthews (00:14):
Welcome to Inside the Mix, your go-to podcast for
music creation and production.
Whether you're crafting yourfirst track or refining your
mixing skills, join me each weekfor expert interviews,
practical tutorials and insightsto help you level up your music
and smash it in the musicindustry.
Let's dive in.
Hello folks, welcome to theInside the Mix podcast.
(00:38):
This episode is the secondinstallment of a listener
question submission format thatmyself and my co-host today, r9,
sir Benson, started in episode175.
So that was the New Year'sepisode for 2024, which turned
out to be the most popularepisode in its first seven days
(01:01):
ever.
So it's the most popularepisode.
So do go check out episode 175if you haven't done so already.
So this is really following onthat format whereby you the
listeners submit a question andwe basically attempt to answer
it.
Essentially.
So, before we dive in, if youhave a question that you want to
feature on the podcast, pleasedo click the link in the episode
(01:22):
description.
It's a speak pipe link.
All you need to do is submityour question using your mobile
phone.
You don't need an account.
You don't need a fancy studiosetup.
It's like sending us an audiomessage and just say hey, it's
XYZ.
My question for Mark and R9 is,and also give yourself a shout
out as well.
If you've got somethinghappening musical, anything
(01:43):
along those lines you can putthat in there and it's evergreen
content.
So do click the link in theepisode description and submit a
question for myself and r9 toanswer in a future episode.
So that's my ramble to beginwith.
Uh, r9 tim, how are you today?
Aisle9 (01:59):
I'm not bad, thank you.
Yeah, a little bit buffeted,but I'm all right.
Marc Matthews (02:03):
Yes, we're just having a discussion off uh, off
air, as they say about the, thesouthwest being buffeted by a
storm and uh and repairingfences and stuff.
Yeah, and being on the coast aswe are because we live
relatively close, um, we arefrequently buffeted by uh by
wind, more so you than me, to behonest, because I'm on the
south coast on the north coast.
Aisle9 (02:25):
Yeah, it's been a bit wild and willy around here, but
we're all good.
Marc Matthews (02:29):
Yeah, that's good to hear.
It's good to hear, but it'sstorm season.
I think we were discussing,isn't it you?
Aisle9 (02:41):
kind of give a storm a name to make it feel less
impactful, but it really doesn't.
It doesn't, no.
Marc Matthews (02:45):
Storm bastard would be more accurate.
Yeah, just a swear word fromeach letter of the alphabet for
a storm.
Anyway, we'll dive into thequestions.
So this format is it's going tobe a question and basically
we're just going to bounce ideasback and forth.
So here we go.
I'm going to play this question.
I'm going to make sure it's atthe beginning, as you never know
how these things are going toreact when you play them.
(03:07):
So let's give it a go.
Xander Phillips (03:09):
Hello there, my name is Xander Phillips.
I'm a guitar player by trade, Iguess, and I play mostly kind
of 80s hard rock style music,kind of like Van Halen, kind of
like Journey, kind of like Queen, that kind of thing.
My question today is about whenyou start a new project and
you're trying to replicate astyle like something like the
80s.
There are so many effects andit's so easy to get lost.
(03:32):
What would you put in on everytrack, what would you put on for
a little bit of sparkle hereand there, and what things would
you completely stay away from?
I know, as a beginner, it'svery, very difficult to find
what you're doing, so myquestion is all about that today
.
If you're interested in thekind of thing I do, you can find
me on Instagram and TikTok asXander himself that's Xander
(03:52):
with an X, not a Z and you canfind me on Spotify as Xander
Phillips.
My latest song is a copy of theMark Bolan song Banga Gong.
Get it On.
Anyway, I hope you can answermy question today, and all the
best.
Marc Matthews (04:07):
There we go.
Thank you, xander.
Good question it is isn't it,it's very well put as well, I
must say.
Very well spoken.
It's a very good question.
I like the influences youmentioned in there.
I'm a massive Journey fan, soas soon as you said Journey, I
was all in there.
And 80s replication.
Now for me, when it comes tosort of emulating and
(04:28):
replicating a style, and this issomething I've been doing
recently with this foray into asort of melodic house that I've
been doing as hands in the airit's not something I've
previously done, but this Isuppose it doesn't really answer
the question about sort ofadding sparkle to a track.
But one thing I like to do is,if I'm moving into the realm of
like emulating a style, I getquite analytical with it.
(04:51):
I'll get a reference track,I'll chuck it into the daw and
then I will literally break itdown in terms of section and map
it out so verse, chorus,pre-chorus, middle eight, etc.
And map it out like that.
And then I break it down evenfurther.
And the great thing is, now wehave stem splitters and then I
can then break it down in termsof what the individual elements
(05:12):
are that they're using in thattrack.
And then I go even further andI use something like uh, tdr
prism and I'll start using lowcut, high cut filters just to
work out what frequency balanceis going on in these different
areas.
Um so, again, it doesn't reallyanswer the question of, like the
sparkle side of things and whatinstruments or maybe effects I
would use, but I think it'sreally important to start just
(05:34):
to get to grips with thecomposition of the track and how
it's structured and thefrequency balance of the track.
I think before you even startthinking okay, well, what
saturation plugins am I going touse?
What reverb plugins am I goingto use?
Just break it down in terms ofactually, how is this structured
, what instrumentation are theyusing and frequency balance.
(05:59):
I think that's specificallywith what I'm doing at the
moment with with melodic house,because kick and bass now really
and I think everyone that I dogets a bit better because I'm
understanding more and more therelationship between kick and
bass in that particular genre.
So that would be my sort ofimmediate tip off the back of
that.
Aisle9 (06:15):
I'll throw it over to yourself now, tim.
Yeah, I think that's a reallyinteresting point to start at,
because getting the arrangementand the instrumentation and the
playing and all those thingsright is so important because
you can sort of grab all theplugins you like but if you
don't get the sort of essence ofthe music right, you're not,
(06:38):
you're not playing a song thatfits to the genre in the first
place then that that is going tobe difficult.
Um, I think it'd be quite goodas well to sort of look at what
was around in the 80s, what youactually had in terms of
recording technology and whatyou could do, because of course
we now are in a completelydifferent time where we've got
(07:01):
almost unlimited tracks andunlimited processing, and back
in the 80s I mean it'sparticularly if you're looking
at the rock genre and big rockbands of the time which I know
Xander was sort of saying he'ssort of into that kind of thing,
van Halen, that kind of journeythey didn't record in cheap
studios, they recorded in veryexpensive studios.
(07:22):
It was extremely expensive tomake records at that point, but
they would normally be lookingat.
I think it's a defining thingof the 80s that you've had live
elements.
Quite a lot of live elements inthose kind of tracks,
particularly rock music, wouldbe live drums, live bass, live
guitars and vocals, maybe withsome synth elements.
(07:45):
I think Journey has that, queenhas that synth or keyboard
elements in there.
So that's the kind of generalsort of you know place you want
to be aiming for, I'd say, andand instrumentation.
But then I think, sort oftrying to work out how many
tracks you need, like trying towork out like things like they
(08:06):
did do, things like doubletracking of vocals, double
tracking of guitar parts, wherethey'd actually re-record the
parts multiple times and thatkind of thing.
That was in.
But again they didn't haveunlimited tracks.
They'd probably be recording on24, 32 tracks.
So you know, you kind of wantto work within that.
(08:28):
I think, give yourself a bit ofa framework as to how much
you're working within, not go.
Oh well, I'm just goingyourself a bit of a framework as
to how much you're workingwithin, not go.
Oh well, I'm just going to do a72 track thing, because that
would be quite unlike the genrein a way.
Marc Matthews (08:39):
You kind of want to force limitations on yourself
, like you mentioned there aboutthe 24-32 track.
Maybe eight groups Like you canbus out to oh no, sorry, eight,
bus eight, send effectsbasically, and then use groups
as well.
Think of it in terms of likeyou've got a console, you've got
like an audio console orsomething in front of you and
force those limitations on you.
(08:59):
That way you're sort ofthinking in the mindset of they
may have done in the 80s.
Now, like I say, I mean there'sstudio spaces they have to
record.
You might not have access to,in particular, the rooms and
stuff, but I mean that's where Isuppose you could use your,
your emulations to do that.
(09:20):
But I think forcing limitationson yourself to do to work in the
scope that they would have donein the 80s, so rather than just
have every vst, synth, vst atyour fingertips that you could
go through, if you know aparticular song you're
interested in, it's got a dx7 init find a dx7 emulation and
just work with that or maybe oneother synth.
But I think limitations canforce you to think outside of
the box and also be morecreative.
(09:40):
And I think also I find this ifI put limitations on myself.
I generally finish uh songsquicker, or at least I get to a
point where I'm happy with itquicker.
I think yeah, don't know aboutyourself yeah, I agree.
Aisle9 (09:55):
I mean, I I think on when you, if you start thinking
of what, what you'd have,because I know it's sort of it
is bewildering.
We've got so many effects andso many places to start.
But I think the general thingwith most of that stuff was it
would be recorded on tape, sothey were working to tape, and
then it would come through aconsole, probably an ssl console
(10:17):
, and there are lots of good sslemulations out there.
You don't necessarily have touse one, but like you could, you
could use an ssl channelemulation maybe to work on.
But essentially the the thingwould be it would have eq,
wouldn't it, and a basicdynamics thing.
And while I was looking into itand like dynamics processing in
(10:37):
those times they didn't reallymake everything pump like the
way that we do.
It tended to be much moresubtle.
There was eq and compression onmost things, probably in the,
on the channels, but I wouldstick with eq and basic
compression, like maybe vcacompression, if you've got
something that's similar to thatlike, and then you would be
(10:58):
replicating something similar towhat the studios were working
with.
And then you've got to thinkmaybe further out of that onto
sort of time-based effects.
But like again, things likeautotune that we have now didn't
exist in the 80s.
So you, you wouldn't be usingautotune on all your tracks, you
wouldn't be like on your vocals, you know some things like that
(11:19):
that you didn't have.
But, um, digital reverbs,digital delays, were very in,
you know um, and not as complex,probably, and realistic as some
of the ones we've got now, butlike algorithmic reverbs and
yeah, so you've got a fairly,for a lot of us it's probably
(11:41):
stripping back and going to sortof less.
Less, in a way, Although theydid love their reverbs and
delays and they did love choruson everything I was going to say
about the reverb there, likewithout the auto the auto tune,
you've been able to sort ofmanually tune a vocal.
Marc Matthews (11:55):
Just swamp it in reverb do loads and loads of
takes yeah, loads and loads oftakes and then swamp it in
reverb.
What band was it?
I think I don't know if it wasrats.
It might have been rats, but Iremember the vocalist from rat
had a lot of reverb on his vocal.
Others might I mean, that mightbe a sweeping statement, I'll
probably get corrected on that,but I do recall hearing yeah,
(12:16):
washed with reverb when thevocal wasn't as strong.
Aisle9 (12:20):
let's say, Of course, bands like Journey and I mean
probably Van Halen too, but likedefinitely Queen and Journey,
like that, he mentioned, like Imean just stunning vocalists,
weren't they?
I mean, they were, he mentionedlike I mean just stunning
vocalists.
Xander Phillips (12:32):
Yeah, I mean, they were just really, really
good.
Aisle9 (12:35):
I don't think anyone would have worried about whether
they had autotune for Freddie,you know, it's just like so and,
to be honest, all the musiciansin those bands stunning
musicians.
So a lot of the sound came fromjust that.
But then, yeah, you've gotthings like gated reverb which
is a huge signature sound of the80s and setting up a send to a
(12:59):
reverb and actually putting on anice reverb, say an AMS.
You can get AMS VSTs now thatcan replicate the AMS stuff.
And then there's lexicon stuffas well, lexicon reverbs,
lexicon reverb.
So let's continue full.
So something like that, a goodalgorithmic reverb or something
that emulates a yamaha spx 90 orquadroverb, something like that
(13:22):
, and then an actual gate afterthat um on the channel and then
keying the gate from side,chaining it from whatever you're
putting through it.
So if you're putting the snareinto it, side-chain it from the
snare and you can actuallyreplicate, then a very accurate
gated reverb sound like just geta big hall sound on the reverb
(13:46):
but then actually gate it usingan audio gate triggered from the
snare itself or whatever, andyou would get close to that kind
of gated reverb sound which isso signature, isn't it?
Marc Matthews (13:57):
Yeah, I love the gated reverb sound.
I remember when I first gotinto music production and the
first thing I wanted to do wascreate a gated reverb on a snare
and it was like the first thingI ever wanted to do just to get
that snap and then that wash ofreverb and that just huge, huge
sounding Cut off yeah yeah,yeah, I love a gated reverb and
(14:18):
you'll find I think there's no.
I know I use Valhalla reverband I'm fairly certain there's a
gated.
Aisle9 (14:24):
They've got gated presets haven't they?
Yeah, yeah, yeah and that mightbe an easier route than going
the whole sort of thing, so youcould actually use a gated sort
of preset.
Yeah.
Marc Matthews (14:35):
It's interesting you mentioned gates because I
guess, like I mean, I'mprimarily now doing the synth
music and, as I mentionedearlier, moving into like house
and stuff Getting a bit off thequestion here but I find myself
using gates less and less, lessand less.
I guess that's because I'm notrecording live drums, for
example, or a live outfit.
(14:55):
I guess if I were, I'd be usinggates more, but um, you've got
samples and stuff, so you don'treally need them.
Yeah, trying to think of thelast that maybe, for I've maybe
used it to create a stuttereffect.
That might have been I mighthave used a gate in that
instance, but yeah, it'sinteresting.
Maybe in my next productionI'll try and use a gate a bit
more creatively with it.
Aisle9 (15:14):
Yeah, yeah, because I guess in the 80s drum stuff it
was a lot of the time, you know,in in the 70s we'd have more
like kind of Mikey of drum kitswith like sort of you know a
kick drum mic and then like theGlyn Johns kind of style thing
with the three microphones.
Yeah, yeah, sort of twooverheads and one on the floor
Tom, whatever.
So you've got that kind of sortof style of micing that was
(15:39):
just micing the room and thedrummer in the room and
obviously they often had quitecontrolled dead-sounding rooms.
But then in the 80s theystarted going for these
big-sounding rooms but then theactual close mics were on all of
the drums and all of the tomswere close mic'd, um, and then
they gated them.
They did gate them a lot in inthe actual mix, so they'd have
(16:02):
the overheads and the room micsbut they'd have really sort of
quite shut down, kind of youknow gated mics, and that
produced a particular sound plusthe kind of gated reverb and
you get that kind of almost italmost sounds mechanical,
doesn't it?
Like a lot of 80s drums soundbig but like almost like
(16:22):
programmed, almost got that kindof sort of big, monstrous sound
.
But then it's not very natural,it's sort of slightly overblown
.
You know, reminds me of a story.
Marc Matthews (16:34):
Was it John Bonham?
It might have been John Bonhamrecording some Zeppelin drums
and they did it at the I can'tremember if it was the bottom of
a stairwell or something likethat, but to get that huge, I
mean, that's going to.
It's like a 70s production, butto get that huge drum Led, drum
, led zeppelin drum sound, Icould not tell you how they
miked it up.
I remember hearing a storyalong those lines where they did
that which I thought was supercool.
I'd love to have the ability todo that.
(16:56):
Uh, I suppose I could.
I could go rent out a studioand I'd do it that way.
Aisle9 (16:59):
But bizarrely enough, like that very john bonham story
, they actually recorded that upthe road from where my studio
was.
When I, when I had a studioliterally about half a mile down
the road or something, was thehouse that they recorded that in
in sort of sort of sort of grayshop way, yeah, over there, and
yeah, they they recalled it inthis sort of mansion thing, yeah
(17:22):
, and I believe they sort ofhung a mic from the top, you
know, into that and it just gavethat enormous sound when he
played.
Yeah, yeah, but that's verydifferent than the 80s thing
where they stuck you in a sortof studio and, like you know, it
all got.
I mean, in the 80s they didstrange stuff, like even overdub
the hi-hats separate to likethe rest of the stuff, you know
(17:44):
crazy stuff.
Marc Matthews (17:44):
Who was it?
Again, all these stories arecoming to mind now and I don't
know if this is true or not, butthey flew someone in just to
overdub a hi-hat because theywere.
Was it copland from the police?
it might well have been, they'vethis this might be like one of
those programs where it's just,you know, like turning up to 11
(18:05):
on spinal tap.
It might be a story like thatwhere they flew someone in just
to overdub the hat and that wasit for a drum kit.
Imagine, if you're that wellknown for your hi-hat that you
were flown in to do that.
Aisle9 (18:20):
I know that brian eno used to get hired like, uh, how
he got in production, like oneof his sort of ways of earning
money, was like getting hired toprogram DX7s because nobody
knew how to program them.
Wow.
So, they could get the kind ofstandard bell sound.
And you know, after that theywere all stuck.
So they'd call Brian in andBrian would program it to do.
(18:43):
Well, knowing Brian, it wasjust a really slow pad.
But you know, brian, can't youmake it do anything a bit more
exciting?
Oh, no, and like yeah but no.
So, yeah, it's weird, though wesort of think of like having a
billion presets, but peopledidn't, they didn't, they were
sort of very limited really,with a lot of their sound
choices.
(19:03):
And you know, of course, you'vegot sampling coming in at the
end of the 80s which, yeah, yeah, you know, sort of fair lights
and stuff.
Marc Matthews (19:10):
So I was thinking that when you mentioned there
about the drums like becomingmechanical, and then it kind of
like then you I suppose itdepends on which genre of music
you then move into but then yougo, if you start going down to
like the synth pop route andlike, yeah, electronic route,
and then the drums are becomevery mechanical.
But yeah definitely.
Then you hear the crossover intolike you mentioned about, like
with van halen and queen, wherethey bring it, bringing in the
(19:32):
synthesizers, obviously Jumpbeing a prime example of how
synths make the crossover.
Aisle9 (19:37):
So all very interesting.
Marc Matthews (19:38):
So part of Xander's question, thinking back
to it now, was what youwouldn't, what you wouldn't do,
what you wouldn't do.
And immediately I'm thinkingnow I don't know if would you do
this, if you were doing that.
But you see side chaincompression used a lot yeah, I
(20:00):
was just thinking that yeahdon't.
Aisle9 (20:01):
Side chain compression, pumping side chain compression
no, you see that a lot.
You see that a lot in synthwave and synth pop, don't you?
But I don't think that I meanstylistically.
It wasn't an 80s thing, itdidn't really happen.
So certainly not in the rockmusic either, you know.
I think the other thing you'd bewary of is too much bottom end,
because literally it's shockingwhen you listen back to those
(20:23):
tracks how little bass a lot ofthem have in them.
I mean, you might get the driveof the bass guitar in a Van
Halen track but you won't getthat real low sort of sub end.
You know, like it's not likelistening to sort of um, limp
biscuit or something where, likeyou know, you've got an
enormous amount of sub end in ain a rock track.
(20:45):
Like you, you simply, and likeyou know a lot of the metal that
we've got now, where there's alot of low end in that sort of
stuff, like we're talking aboutclassic rock, and classic rock
just doesn't have that amount ofbottom end in it.
It's kind of very controlled,um and tight and there is, there
is definition to it, but it'snot really much past 80, sort of
(21:08):
180, sort of maybe 60 at themost.
Do you know what I mean?
It rolls off a lot I think.
Marc Matthews (21:15):
I think that goes back to what I said right at
the beginning about like,actually looking at particular
frequency bands or or particularsections like sub bass, bass,
low mids, mids, high mids and soforth, and actually seeing
what's happening there and usinga frequency analyzer to see
what's happening.
And obviously I mean you're notgoing to do it verbatim and
(21:37):
think, well, my, my, myfrequency balances do exactly
match, but you'll get a goodidea of what's down there and
what's happening.
Aisle9 (21:44):
Yeah, I mean guitars, like again that sort of choosing
the kind of amps that theywould use, like you know,
marshalls or whatever that gaveyou that the JCM sort of
Marshall sound, that kind ofvery it's a tight sort end.
It's kind of just like it'ssort of sitting your guitars in
the right place and, um, andyour bass in the right place.
(22:12):
A lot of another thing that Iwas thinking that might be kind
of useful if you're doing um,80s stuff is, uh, thinking about
some of the kind of cleanguitars is actually di-ing them,
because it, bizarrely enough,that was quite an 80s thing was
to di guitars, just plug themstraight into the desk and
(22:33):
record them if they're clean,not if they were driven, but
like you know.
A lot of like I mean, uh, youknow all the stuff on let's
dance, for instance, they justplugged it into the desk, you
know.
So you know I think.
Marc Matthews (22:47):
Well, that was nile rogers.
Yeah, look at our rogers.
I think I think it's a matterof course.
I've always di'd guitar, I havea splitter and I always, I've
always recorded a dry signal forguitar and bass, and bass as
well, um, I think it's just beendrilled into me throughout time
.
It's like just to have it as abackup for whatever reason.
(23:07):
Um, but yeah, and also nowbecause I'm fully in the box.
So a long time since I'veactually had an actual amp I
think the last one I had was anorange great abs, great clean
tone with an orange.
But, um, yeah, di all the way,um, most most certainly, I think
, yeah, like I say, I'm a firmbeliever in just capturing that
(23:27):
raw sound.
It just gives you a bit offlexibility.
Aisle9 (23:31):
The other thing I wouldn't do is have loads of
stuff running on the master, onthe mix bus, because I would
have it fairly simple, like anSSL bus compressor which would
have been on the desks, maybeGreat compressor yeah, great
compressor, and a lot of us usethat now anyway but just
wouldn't have loads of heavylimiting and a lot of us use
that now anyway but, like, justwouldn't have loads of heavy
(23:51):
limiting and that sort of stuffbecause they would do a bit of
that in in the mastering but,like you know, it was very
little of that was used.
You wouldn't have limiterseverywhere, you just have subtle
compression, eq.
You know some nice reverbs,delays, some chorus on things,
(24:13):
but maybe a bit of phasing orflanging.
They do like a time-basedeffects on stuff.
But oh yeah, short of that, Idon't think you're dealing with
a lot.
A lot else you know and youprobably only want like I think
we've said this before actuallyonly four or five reverbs maybe
and all on sends and in it whenyou're mixing, so that you don't
(24:35):
have tons and tons of reverb ofdifferent types of reverb, yeah
, yeah, and then it gets intothis big ball of mud.
Xander Phillips (24:45):
I mean that's quite extreme, that's yeah it's
quite extreme.
Marc Matthews (24:49):
One thing I was going to add as well is and it
could, I think, when you, whenyou first start trying to
emulate a particular style andyou do this research into the
different production techniquesand the instrumentation and
stuff that's used, and then youtry and shoehorn it all into one
song, I think I've learned this.
Probably the hard way is like,if it's something that, if it's
a particular genre and style ofmusic that you're going to be
(25:10):
working in for an indefiniteperiod of time, is try not to do
everything all at once, maybelike research, one, two, maybe
three different techniques andand try them out on a song.
Get that done, get it finished,then move on to the next one,
yeah so, and then just graduallybuild up that, that arsenal of
techniques, productiontechniques for that particular
(25:31):
style of music, rather thantrying to do it all at once.
It's kind of like if you'retrying to do it all at once,
you're not really going tomaster any of them again might
be a sweeping statement but justlike one or two at a time
release that, move on to thenext one and just gradually get
better that way because I've now, I've done that when you're
thinking, oh man, I've got toget all these different
techniques and these differentsounds in there, but yeah, yeah,
(25:53):
yeah.
Aisle9 (25:54):
Going back to limitations again, they did take
their time as well making a lotof those records.
Like you know, pyromania orsomething, it didn't happen
overnight, you know, like a lotof those kind of death,
leopardppard and that sort ofthing.
They spent forever making thosethings, incredible records.
A lot of them are very hardrecords to emulate.
In that sense you know, you'renot just going to all meet
(26:16):
around someone's place, recordit into a DAW in an afternoon
and just sound like that.
I don't think you know.
Marc Matthews (26:22):
Yeah, I was going to say they're probably fuelled
by various substances to keepit going, but I'm not going to
condone that as part of thecreative process.
Aisle9 (26:31):
No, no, just take loads of coke, that'll solve it.
Yeah, yeah, I think it was,wasn't it?
Um, yeah, it was black sabbathor something.
Who?
Who said the bill for thecocaine was more than the
recording?
Indeed yeah yeah, yeah, itreminds me of when I uh, I had
the opportunity to uh do a quicklike mix on a desk.
Marc Matthews (26:55):
Uh, gus dudgeon desk.
Oh wow, yeah, yeah, it was goodyes yeah, yeah, it was
previously owned by robbiewilliams, if I remember rightly,
uh, and then there was, uh,there was an elephant on there,
but there was a mirror that wasspecifically on there for a
particular purpose and, yeah,that was quite interesting.
I didn't use it for thatpurpose, I used it for mixing.
There was an elephant on there,yeah, and a mirror near the
(27:19):
elephant, oh yeah, yeah, not anelephant on the desk because
that would have made it hard towork on.
Aisle9 (27:24):
I can't get around the trunk.
Marc Matthews (27:30):
Yeah, work on, I can't get around the trunk.
Aisle9 (27:31):
Yeah, oh that would be such a great mixing session.
Marc Matthews (27:32):
You're just all quiet in the booth, and so it's
like I mentioned the elephant inthe room right okay, yeah yeah,
I like I, whenever I starttalking about like techniques
and production techniques, itjust it triggers in my head
various experiences I've hadalong the way and stories I've
been told and heard um.
Some of them can be on thepodcast, but maybe some of them
(27:55):
not.
But thank you I.
Aisle9 (27:56):
I was very lucky to actually work for a whole
weekend in genesis studiorecording.
Is that fine?
Um, no, it was genesis's studio, that's.
That's Peter Gabriel's got onedown there, but it was.
Genesis's studio just nearChiddingfold when they were at a
place called the Farm and myclient actually knew the
(28:18):
engineer there, jeff, and he gotus in for the weekend and we
just basically had that.
I couldn't really believe it.
I think I sort of spent most ofthe weekend pinching myself
that it was actually happeningand at some point I was just
sitting there behind theirenormous SSL recording my
drummer, who was in the sameroom that Phil Collins, had
(28:39):
recorded and recording all thesesort of things.
And at this point I remember theengineer going like, oh well,
you've got this, haven't you?
And just leaving me in chargeof this enormous SSL desk, and I
just thought I don't know whatI'm doing here.
You know, it was really.
It was just like so muchamazing equipment and in fact it
all worked out fine.
(29:00):
But like, yeah, it was justincredible and it's that thing.
I mean classic 80s records,classic stuff recorded there
that I loved.
Classic 80s records, classicstuff recorded there that I
loved.
You know sort of someincredible Genesis stuff
recorded in there, like trackslike Home by the Sea that I'm an
absolute, massive fan of.
So you know, yeah, so you'rejust in a place where you didn't
(29:22):
imagine you were going to endup, but it's yeah, kind of the
vibe of it kind of crept ontothe recording.
I think it was good.
Marc Matthews (29:27):
I think it does good?
I think it does, doesn't it?
You kind of get like inspiredby your environment, knowing
who's been there and whatthey've recorded before.
You can't help but get inspiredby that um.
So I suppose that, in a way,that could also be a tip.
I mean, it's easier said thandone, isn't it just?
I think I'm just going to rockup of a, uh, someone's studio,
but I mean, if you've got it,then use it.
(29:49):
If you've got that access, yeah, yeah.
Aisle9 (29:53):
It could be good doing something like that, to actually
go to a studio and track thestuff and then mix it yourselves
afterwards and add additionalthings so that you've got kind
of more of a band vibe, ifthat's the way you make it.
But then of course some peopleI don't know Xander maybe
records on his own, and if he'sjust recording all the parts
himself, then maybe that's notnecessary, you know another
(30:16):
thing to consider.
Marc Matthews (30:17):
Uh, so there we go half an hour.
So, xander, I think, um, thathas answered the question in
some way, shape or form.
So I hope that was useful.
And if you do have a questionthat you would like Tim and I to
attempt I say attempt to answeron the podcast, please do click
the link in the episodedescription.
Submit that SpeakPipe audiomessage, remember?
(30:39):
Hey, it's XYZ.
My question for marketing isyou can find me at whatever
you've got going on, submit that.
Alternatively I didn't say thisat the beginning if submitting
audio is not your thing, justping me an email mark at
synthmusicmasteringcom or followme or DM me on Instagram at
(31:00):
Inside the Mix Podcast.
Either way, do submit and getfeatured on the podcast.
There we go, tim.
It's been a pleasure.
Thank you very much for joiningme on this.
Who was it?
I'm sure again, all thesestories are coming to mind now
and I don't know if this is trueor not, but they flew someone
in just to overdub a hi-hat.
Xander Phillips (00:09):
You're listening to the Inside the Mix
podcast with your host, MarkMatthews.
Marc Matthews (00:14):
Welcome to Inside the Mix, your go-to podcast for
music creation and production.
Whether you're crafting yourfirst track or refining your
mixing skills, join me each weekfor expert interviews,
practical tutorials and insightsto help you level up your music
and smash it in the musicindustry.
Let's dive in.
Hello folks, welcome to theInside the Mix podcast.
(00:38):
This episode is the secondinstallment of a listener
question submission format thatmyself and my co-host today, r9,
sir Benson, started in episode175.
So that was the New Year'sepisode for 2024, which turned
out to be the most popularepisode in its first seven days
(01:01):
ever.
So it's the most popularepisode.
So do go check out episode 175if you haven't done so already.
So this is really following onthat format whereby you the
listeners submit a question andwe basically attempt to answer
it.
Essentially.
So, before we dive in, if youhave a question that you want to
feature on the podcast, pleasedo click the link in the episode
(01:22):
description.
It's a speak pipe link.
All you need to do is submityour question using your mobile
phone.
You don't need an account.
You don't need a fancy studiosetup.
It's like sending us an audiomessage and just say hey, it's
XYZ.
My question for Mark and R9 is,and also give yourself a shout
out as well.
If you've got somethinghappening musical, anything
(01:43):
along those lines you can putthat in there and it's evergreen
content.
So do click the link in theepisode description and submit a
question for myself and r9 toanswer in a future episode.
So that's my ramble to beginwith.
Uh, r9 tim, how are you today?
Aisle9 (01:59):
I'm not bad, thank you.
Yeah, a little bit buffeted,but I'm all right.
Marc Matthews (02:03):
Yes, we're just having a discussion off uh, off
air, as they say about the, thesouthwest being buffeted by a
storm and uh and repairingfences and stuff.
Yeah, and being on the coast aswe are because we live
relatively close, um, we arefrequently buffeted by uh by
wind, more so you than me, to behonest, because I'm on the
south coast on the north coast.
Aisle9 (02:25):
Yeah, it's been a bit wild and willy around here, but
we're all good.
Marc Matthews (02:29):
Yeah, that's good to hear.
It's good to hear, but it'sstorm season.
I think we were discussing,isn't it you?
Aisle9 (02:41):
kind of give a storm a name to make it feel less
impactful, but it really doesn't.
It doesn't, no.
Marc Matthews (02:45):
Storm bastard would be more accurate.
Yeah, just a swear word fromeach letter of the alphabet for
a storm.
Anyway, we'll dive into thequestions.
So this format is it's going tobe a question and basically
we're just going to bounce ideasback and forth.
So here we go.
I'm going to play this question.
I'm going to make sure it's atthe beginning, as you never know
how these things are going toreact when you play them.
(03:07):
So let's give it a go.
Xander Phillips (03:09):
Hello there, my name is Xander Phillips.
I'm a guitar player by trade, Iguess, and I play mostly kind
of 80s hard rock style music,kind of like Van Halen, kind of
like Journey, kind of like Queen, that kind of thing.
My question today is about whenyou start a new project and
you're trying to replicate astyle like something like the
80s.
There are so many effects andit's so easy to get lost.
(03:32):
What would you put in on everytrack, what would you put on for
a little bit of sparkle hereand there, and what things would
you completely stay away from?
I know, as a beginner, it'svery, very difficult to find
what you're doing, so myquestion is all about that today
.
If you're interested in thekind of thing I do, you can find
me on Instagram and TikTok asXander himself that's Xander
(03:52):
with an X, not a Z and you canfind me on Spotify as Xander
Phillips.
My latest song is a copy of theMark Bolan song Banga Gong.
Get it On.
Anyway, I hope you can answermy question today, and all the
best.
Marc Matthews (04:07):
There we go.
Thank you, xander.
Good question it is isn't it,it's very well put as well, I
must say.
Very well spoken.
It's a very good question.
I like the influences youmentioned in there.
I'm a massive Journey fan, soas soon as you said Journey, I
was all in there.
And 80s replication.
Now for me, when it comes tosort of emulating and
(04:28):
replicating a style, and this issomething I've been doing
recently with this foray into asort of melodic house that I've
been doing as hands in the airit's not something I've
previously done, but this Isuppose it doesn't really answer
the question about sort ofadding sparkle to a track.
But one thing I like to do is,if I'm moving into the realm of
like emulating a style, I getquite analytical with it.
(04:51):
I'll get a reference track,I'll chuck it into the daw and
then I will literally break itdown in terms of section and map
it out so verse, chorus,pre-chorus, middle eight, etc.
And map it out like that.
And then I break it down evenfurther.
And the great thing is, now wehave stem splitters and then I
can then break it down in termsof what the individual elements
(05:12):
are that they're using in thattrack.
And then I go even further andI use something like uh, tdr
prism and I'll start using lowcut, high cut filters just to
work out what frequency balanceis going on in these different
areas.
Um so, again, it doesn't reallyanswer the question of, like the
sparkle side of things and whatinstruments or maybe effects I
would use, but I think it'sreally important to start just
(05:34):
to get to grips with thecomposition of the track and how
it's structured and thefrequency balance of the track.
I think before you even startthinking okay, well, what
saturation plugins am I going touse?
What reverb plugins am I goingto use?
Just break it down in terms ofactually, how is this structured
, what instrumentation are theyusing and frequency balance.
(05:59):
I think that's specificallywith what I'm doing at the
moment with with melodic house,because kick and bass now really
and I think everyone that I dogets a bit better because I'm
understanding more and more therelationship between kick and
bass in that particular genre.
So that would be my sort ofimmediate tip off the back of
that.
Aisle9 (06:15):
I'll throw it over to yourself now, tim.
Yeah, I think that's a reallyinteresting point to start at,
because getting the arrangementand the instrumentation and the
playing and all those thingsright is so important because
you can sort of grab all theplugins you like but if you
don't get the sort of essence ofthe music right, you're not,
(06:38):
you're not playing a song thatfits to the genre in the first
place then that that is going tobe difficult.
Um, I think it'd be quite goodas well to sort of look at what
was around in the 80s, what youactually had in terms of
recording technology and whatyou could do, because of course
we now are in a completelydifferent time where we've got
(07:01):
almost unlimited tracks andunlimited processing, and back
in the 80s I mean it'sparticularly if you're looking
at the rock genre and big rockbands of the time which I know
Xander was sort of saying he'ssort of into that kind of thing,
van Halen, that kind of journeythey didn't record in cheap
studios, they recorded in veryexpensive studios.
(07:22):
It was extremely expensive tomake records at that point, but
they would normally be lookingat.
I think it's a defining thingof the 80s that you've had live
elements.
Quite a lot of live elements inthose kind of tracks,
particularly rock music, wouldbe live drums, live bass, live
guitars and vocals, maybe withsome synth elements.
(07:45):
I think Journey has that, queenhas that synth or keyboard
elements in there.
So that's the kind of generalsort of you know place you want
to be aiming for, I'd say, andand instrumentation.
But then I think, sort oftrying to work out how many
tracks you need, like trying towork out like things like they
(08:06):
did do, things like doubletracking of vocals, double
tracking of guitar parts, wherethey'd actually re-record the
parts multiple times and thatkind of thing.
That was in.
But again they didn't haveunlimited tracks.
They'd probably be recording on24, 32 tracks.
So you know, you kind of wantto work within that.
(08:28):
I think, give yourself a bit ofa framework as to how much
you're working within, not go.
Oh well, I'm just goingyourself a bit of a framework as
to how much you're workingwithin, not go.
Oh well, I'm just going to do a72 track thing, because that
would be quite unlike the genrein a way.
Marc Matthews (08:39):
You kind of want to force limitations on yourself
, like you mentioned there aboutthe 24-32 track.
Maybe eight groups Like you canbus out to oh no, sorry, eight,
bus eight, send effectsbasically, and then use groups
as well.
Think of it in terms of likeyou've got a console, you've got
like an audio console orsomething in front of you and
force those limitations on you.
(08:59):
That way you're sort ofthinking in the mindset of they
may have done in the 80s.
Now, like I say, I mean there'sstudio spaces they have to
record.
You might not have access to,in particular, the rooms and
stuff, but I mean that's where Isuppose you could use your,
your emulations to do that.
(09:20):
But I think forcing limitationson yourself to do to work in the
scope that they would have donein the 80s, so rather than just
have every vst, synth, vst atyour fingertips that you could
go through, if you know aparticular song you're
interested in, it's got a dx7 init find a dx7 emulation and
just work with that or maybe oneother synth.
But I think limitations canforce you to think outside of
the box and also be morecreative.
(09:40):
And I think also I find this ifI put limitations on myself.
I generally finish uh songsquicker, or at least I get to a
point where I'm happy with itquicker.
I think yeah, don't know aboutyourself yeah, I agree.
Aisle9 (09:55):
I mean, I I think on when you, if you start thinking
of what, what you'd have,because I know it's sort of it
is bewildering.
We've got so many effects andso many places to start.
But I think the general thingwith most of that stuff was it
would be recorded on tape, sothey were working to tape, and
then it would come through aconsole, probably an ssl console
(10:17):
, and there are lots of good sslemulations out there.
You don't necessarily have touse one, but like you could, you
could use an ssl channelemulation maybe to work on.
But essentially the the thingwould be it would have eq,
wouldn't it, and a basicdynamics thing.
And while I was looking into itand like dynamics processing in
(10:37):
those times they didn't reallymake everything pump like the
way that we do.
It tended to be much moresubtle.
There was eq and compression onmost things, probably in the,
on the channels, but I wouldstick with eq and basic
compression, like maybe vcacompression, if you've got
something that's similar to thatlike, and then you would be
(10:58):
replicating something similar towhat the studios were working
with.
And then you've got to thinkmaybe further out of that onto
sort of time-based effects.
But like again, things likeautotune that we have now didn't
exist in the 80s.
So you, you wouldn't be usingautotune on all your tracks, you
wouldn't be like on your vocals, you know some things like that
(11:19):
that you didn't have.
But, um, digital reverbs,digital delays, were very in,
you know um, and not as complex,probably, and realistic as some
of the ones we've got now, butlike algorithmic reverbs and
yeah, so you've got a fairly,for a lot of us it's probably
(11:41):
stripping back and going to sortof less.
Less, in a way, Although theydid love their reverbs and
delays and they did love choruson everything I was going to say
about the reverb there, likewithout the auto the auto tune,
you've been able to sort ofmanually tune a vocal.
Marc Matthews (11:55):
Just swamp it in reverb do loads and loads of
takes yeah, loads and loads oftakes and then swamp it in
reverb.
What band was it?
I think I don't know if it wasrats.
It might have been rats, but Iremember the vocalist from rat
had a lot of reverb on his vocal.
Others might I mean, that mightbe a sweeping statement, I'll
probably get corrected on that,but I do recall hearing yeah,
(12:16):
washed with reverb when thevocal wasn't as strong.
Aisle9 (12:20):
let's say, Of course, bands like Journey and I mean
probably Van Halen too, but likedefinitely Queen and Journey,
like that, he mentioned, like Imean just stunning vocalists,
weren't they?
I mean, they were, he mentionedlike I mean just stunning
vocalists.
Xander Phillips (12:32):
Yeah, I mean, they were just really, really
good.
Aisle9 (12:35):
I don't think anyone would have worried about whether
they had autotune for Freddie,you know, it's just like so and,
to be honest, all the musiciansin those bands stunning
musicians.
So a lot of the sound came fromjust that.
But then, yeah, you've gotthings like gated reverb which
is a huge signature sound of the80s and setting up a send to a
(12:59):
reverb and actually putting on anice reverb, say an AMS.
You can get AMS VSTs now thatcan replicate the AMS stuff.
And then there's lexicon stuffas well, lexicon reverbs,
lexicon reverb.
So let's continue full.
So something like that, a goodalgorithmic reverb or something
that emulates a yamaha spx 90 orquadroverb, something like that
(13:22):
, and then an actual gate afterthat um on the channel and then
keying the gate from side,chaining it from whatever you're
putting through it.
So if you're putting the snareinto it, side-chain it from the
snare and you can actuallyreplicate, then a very accurate
gated reverb sound like just geta big hall sound on the reverb
(13:46):
but then actually gate it usingan audio gate triggered from the
snare itself or whatever, andyou would get close to that kind
of gated reverb sound which isso signature, isn't it?
Marc Matthews (13:57):
Yeah, I love the gated reverb sound.
I remember when I first gotinto music production and the
first thing I wanted to do wascreate a gated reverb on a snare
and it was like the first thingI ever wanted to do just to get
that snap and then that wash ofreverb and that just huge, huge
sounding Cut off yeah yeah,yeah, I love a gated reverb and
(14:18):
you'll find I think there's no.
I know I use Valhalla reverband I'm fairly certain there's a
gated.
Aisle9 (14:24):
They've got gated presets haven't they?
Yeah, yeah, yeah and that mightbe an easier route than going
the whole sort of thing, so youcould actually use a gated sort
of preset.
Yeah.
Marc Matthews (14:35):
It's interesting you mentioned gates because I
guess, like I mean, I'mprimarily now doing the synth
music and, as I mentionedearlier, moving into like house
and stuff Getting a bit off thequestion here but I find myself
using gates less and less, lessand less.
I guess that's because I'm notrecording live drums, for
example, or a live outfit.
(14:55):
I guess if I were, I'd be usinggates more, but um, you've got
samples and stuff, so you don'treally need them.
Yeah, trying to think of thelast that maybe, for I've maybe
used it to create a stuttereffect.
That might have been I mighthave used a gate in that
instance, but yeah, it'sinteresting.
Maybe in my next productionI'll try and use a gate a bit
more creatively with it.
Aisle9 (15:14):
Yeah, yeah, because I guess in the 80s drum stuff it
was a lot of the time, you know,in in the 70s we'd have more
like kind of Mikey of drum kitswith like sort of you know a
kick drum mic and then like theGlyn Johns kind of style thing
with the three microphones.
Yeah, yeah, sort of twooverheads and one on the floor
Tom, whatever.
So you've got that kind of sortof style of micing that was
(15:39):
just micing the room and thedrummer in the room and
obviously they often had quitecontrolled dead-sounding rooms.
But then in the 80s theystarted going for these
big-sounding rooms but then theactual close mics were on all of
the drums and all of the tomswere close mic'd, um, and then
they gated them.
They did gate them a lot in inthe actual mix, so they'd have
(16:02):
the overheads and the room micsbut they'd have really sort of
quite shut down, kind of youknow gated mics, and that
produced a particular sound plusthe kind of gated reverb and
you get that kind of almost italmost sounds mechanical,
doesn't it?
Like a lot of 80s drums soundbig but like almost like
(16:22):
programmed, almost got that kindof sort of big, monstrous sound
.
But then it's not very natural,it's sort of slightly overblown
.
You know, reminds me of a story.
Marc Matthews (16:34):
Was it John Bonham?
It might have been John Bonhamrecording some Zeppelin drums
and they did it at the I can'tremember if it was the bottom of
a stairwell or something likethat, but to get that huge, I
mean, that's going to.
It's like a 70s production, butto get that huge drum Led, drum
, led zeppelin drum sound, Icould not tell you how they
miked it up.
I remember hearing a storyalong those lines where they did
that which I thought was supercool.
I'd love to have the ability todo that.
(16:56):
Uh, I suppose I could.
I could go rent out a studioand I'd do it that way.
Aisle9 (16:59):
But bizarrely enough, like that very john bonham story
, they actually recorded that upthe road from where my studio
was.
When I, when I had a studioliterally about half a mile down
the road or something, was thehouse that they recorded that in
in sort of sort of sort of grayshop way, yeah, over there, and
yeah, they they recalled it inthis sort of mansion thing, yeah
(17:22):
, and I believe they sort ofhung a mic from the top, you
know, into that and it just gavethat enormous sound when he
played.
Yeah, yeah, but that's verydifferent than the 80s thing
where they stuck you in a sortof studio and, like you know, it
all got.
I mean, in the 80s they didstrange stuff, like even overdub
the hi-hats separate to likethe rest of the stuff, you know
(17:44):
crazy stuff.
Marc Matthews (17:44):
Who was it?
Again, all these stories arecoming to mind now and I don't
know if this is true or not, butthey flew someone in just to
overdub a hi-hat because theywere.
Was it copland from the police?
it might well have been, they'vethis this might be like one of
those programs where it's just,you know, like turning up to 11
(18:05):
on spinal tap.
It might be a story like thatwhere they flew someone in just
to overdub the hat and that wasit for a drum kit.
Imagine, if you're that wellknown for your hi-hat that you
were flown in to do that.
Aisle9 (18:20):
I know that brian eno used to get hired like, uh, how
he got in production, like oneof his sort of ways of earning
money, was like getting hired toprogram DX7s because nobody
knew how to program them.
Wow.
So, they could get the kind ofstandard bell sound.
And you know, after that theywere all stuck.
So they'd call Brian in andBrian would program it to do.
(18:43):
Well, knowing Brian, it wasjust a really slow pad.
But you know, brian, can't youmake it do anything a bit more
exciting?
Oh, no, and like yeah but no.
So, yeah, it's weird, though wesort of think of like having a
billion presets, but peopledidn't, they didn't, they were
sort of very limited really,with a lot of their sound
choices.
(19:03):
And you know, of course, you'vegot sampling coming in at the
end of the 80s which, yeah, yeah, you know, sort of fair lights
and stuff.
Marc Matthews (19:10):
So I was thinking that when you mentioned there
about the drums like becomingmechanical, and then it kind of
like then you I suppose itdepends on which genre of music
you then move into but then yougo, if you start going down to
like the synth pop route andlike, yeah, electronic route,
and then the drums are becomevery mechanical.
But yeah definitely.
Then you hear the crossover intolike you mentioned about, like
with van halen and queen, wherethey bring it, bringing in the
(19:32):
synthesizers, obviously Jumpbeing a prime example of how
synths make the crossover.
Aisle9 (19:37):
So all very interesting.
Marc Matthews (19:38):
So part of Xander's question, thinking back
to it now, was what youwouldn't, what you wouldn't do,
what you wouldn't do.
And immediately I'm thinkingnow I don't know if would you do
this, if you were doing that.
But you see side chaincompression used a lot yeah, I
(20:00):
was just thinking that yeahdon't.
Aisle9 (20:01):
Side chain compression, pumping side chain compression
no, you see that a lot.
You see that a lot in synthwave and synth pop, don't you?
But I don't think that I meanstylistically.
It wasn't an 80s thing, itdidn't really happen.
So certainly not in the rockmusic either, you know.
I think the other thing you'd bewary of is too much bottom end,
because literally it's shockingwhen you listen back to those
(20:23):
tracks how little bass a lot ofthem have in them.
I mean, you might get the driveof the bass guitar in a Van
Halen track but you won't getthat real low sort of sub end.
You know, like it's not likelistening to sort of um, limp
biscuit or something where, likeyou know, you've got an
enormous amount of sub end in ain a rock track.
(20:45):
Like you, you simply, and likeyou know a lot of the metal that
we've got now, where there's alot of low end in that sort of
stuff, like we're talking aboutclassic rock, and classic rock
just doesn't have that amount ofbottom end in it.
It's kind of very controlled,um and tight and there is, there
is definition to it, but it'snot really much past 80, sort of
(21:08):
180, sort of maybe 60 at themost.
Do you know what I mean?
It rolls off a lot I think.
Marc Matthews (21:15):
I think that goes back to what I said right at
the beginning about like,actually looking at particular
frequency bands or or particularsections like sub bass, bass,
low mids, mids, high mids and soforth, and actually seeing
what's happening there and usinga frequency analyzer to see
what's happening.
And obviously I mean you're notgoing to do it verbatim and
(21:37):
think, well, my, my, myfrequency balances do exactly
match, but you'll get a goodidea of what's down there and
what's happening.
Aisle9 (21:44):
Yeah, I mean guitars, like again that sort of choosing
the kind of amps that theywould use, like you know,
marshalls or whatever that gaveyou that the JCM sort of
Marshall sound, that kind ofvery it's a tight sort end.
It's kind of just like it'ssort of sitting your guitars in
the right place and, um, andyour bass in the right place.
(22:12):
A lot of another thing that Iwas thinking that might be kind
of useful if you're doing um,80s stuff is, uh, thinking about
some of the kind of cleanguitars is actually di-ing them,
because it, bizarrely enough,that was quite an 80s thing was
to di guitars, just plug themstraight into the desk and
(22:33):
record them if they're clean,not if they were driven, but
like you know.
A lot of like I mean, uh, youknow all the stuff on let's
dance, for instance, they justplugged it into the desk, you
know.
So you know I think.
Marc Matthews (22:47):
Well, that was nile rogers.
Yeah, look at our rogers.
I think I think it's a matterof course.
I've always di'd guitar, I havea splitter and I always, I've
always recorded a dry signal forguitar and bass, and bass as
well, um, I think it's just beendrilled into me throughout time
.
It's like just to have it as abackup for whatever reason.
(23:07):
Um, but yeah, and also nowbecause I'm fully in the box.
So a long time since I'veactually had an actual amp I
think the last one I had was anorange great abs, great clean
tone with an orange.
But, um, yeah, di all the way,um, most most certainly, I think
, yeah, like I say, I'm a firmbeliever in just capturing that
(23:27):
raw sound.
It just gives you a bit offlexibility.
Aisle9 (23:31):
The other thing I wouldn't do is have loads of
stuff running on the master, onthe mix bus, because I would
have it fairly simple, like anSSL bus compressor which would
have been on the desks, maybeGreat compressor yeah, great
compressor, and a lot of us usethat now anyway but just
wouldn't have loads of heavylimiting and a lot of us use
that now anyway but, like, justwouldn't have loads of heavy
(23:51):
limiting and that sort of stuffbecause they would do a bit of
that in in the mastering but,like you know, it was very
little of that was used.
You wouldn't have limiterseverywhere, you just have subtle
compression, eq.
You know some nice reverbs,delays, some chorus on things,
(24:13):
but maybe a bit of phasing orflanging.
They do like a time-basedeffects on stuff.
But oh yeah, short of that, Idon't think you're dealing with
a lot.
A lot else you know and youprobably only want like I think
we've said this before actuallyonly four or five reverbs maybe
and all on sends and in it whenyou're mixing, so that you don't
(24:35):
have tons and tons of reverb ofdifferent types of reverb, yeah
, yeah, and then it gets intothis big ball of mud.
Xander Phillips (24:45):
I mean that's quite extreme, that's yeah it's
quite extreme.
Marc Matthews (24:49):
One thing I was going to add as well is and it
could, I think, when you, whenyou first start trying to
emulate a particular style andyou do this research into the
different production techniquesand the instrumentation and
stuff that's used, and then youtry and shoehorn it all into one
song, I think I've learned this.
Probably the hard way is like,if it's something that, if it's
a particular genre and style ofmusic that you're going to be
(25:10):
working in for an indefiniteperiod of time, is try not to do
everything all at once, maybelike research, one, two, maybe
three different techniques andand try them out on a song.
Get that done, get it finished,then move on to the next one,
yeah so, and then just graduallybuild up that, that arsenal of
techniques, productiontechniques for that particular
(25:31):
style of music, rather thantrying to do it all at once.
It's kind of like if you'retrying to do it all at once,
you're not really going tomaster any of them again might
be a sweeping statement but justlike one or two at a time
release that, move on to thenext one and just gradually get
better that way because I've now, I've done that when you're
thinking, oh man, I've got toget all these different
techniques and these differentsounds in there, but yeah, yeah,
(25:53):
yeah.
Aisle9 (25:54):
Going back to limitations again, they did take
their time as well making a lotof those records.
Like you know, pyromania orsomething, it didn't happen
overnight, you know, like a lotof those kind of death,
leopardppard and that sort ofthing.
They spent forever making thosethings, incredible records.
A lot of them are very hardrecords to emulate.
In that sense you know, you'renot just going to all meet
(26:16):
around someone's place, recordit into a DAW in an afternoon
and just sound like that.
I don't think you know.
Marc Matthews (26:22):
Yeah, I was going to say they're probably fuelled
by various substances to keepit going, but I'm not going to
condone that as part of thecreative process.
Aisle9 (26:31):
No, no, just take loads of coke, that'll solve it.
Yeah, yeah, I think it was,wasn't it?
Um, yeah, it was black sabbathor something.
Who?
Who said the bill for thecocaine was more than the
recording?
Indeed yeah yeah, yeah, itreminds me of when I uh, I had
the opportunity to uh do a quicklike mix on a desk.
Marc Matthews (26:55):
Uh, gus dudgeon desk.
Oh wow, yeah, yeah, it was goodyes yeah, yeah, it was
previously owned by robbiewilliams, if I remember rightly,
uh, and then there was, uh,there was an elephant on there,
but there was a mirror that wasspecifically on there for a
particular purpose and, yeah,that was quite interesting.
I didn't use it for thatpurpose, I used it for mixing.
There was an elephant on there,yeah, and a mirror near the
(27:19):
elephant, oh yeah, yeah, not anelephant on the desk because
that would have made it hard towork on.
Aisle9 (27:24):
I can't get around the trunk.
Marc Matthews (27:30):
Yeah, work on, I can't get around the trunk.
Aisle9 (27:31):
Yeah, oh that would be such a great mixing session.
Marc Matthews (27:32):
You're just all quiet in the booth, and so it's
like I mentioned the elephant inthe room right okay, yeah yeah,
I like I, whenever I starttalking about like techniques
and production techniques, itjust it triggers in my head
various experiences I've hadalong the way and stories I've
been told and heard um.
Some of them can be on thepodcast, but maybe some of them
(27:55):
not.
But thank you I.
Aisle9 (27:56):
I was very lucky to actually work for a whole
weekend in genesis studiorecording.
Is that fine?
Um, no, it was genesis's studio, that's.
That's Peter Gabriel's got onedown there, but it was.
Genesis's studio just nearChiddingfold when they were at a
place called the Farm and myclient actually knew the
(28:18):
engineer there, jeff, and he gotus in for the weekend and we
just basically had that.
I couldn't really believe it.
I think I sort of spent most ofthe weekend pinching myself
that it was actually happeningand at some point I was just
sitting there behind theirenormous SSL recording my
drummer, who was in the sameroom that Phil Collins, had
(28:39):
recorded and recording all thesesort of things.
And at this point I remember theengineer going like, oh well,
you've got this, haven't you?
And just leaving me in chargeof this enormous SSL desk, and I
just thought I don't know whatI'm doing here.
You know, it was really.
It was just like so muchamazing equipment and in fact it
all worked out fine.
(29:00):
But like, yeah, it was justincredible and it's that thing.
I mean classic 80s records,classic stuff recorded there
that I loved.
Classic 80s records, classicstuff recorded there that I
loved.
You know sort of someincredible Genesis stuff
recorded in there, like trackslike Home by the Sea that I'm an
absolute, massive fan of.
So you know, yeah, so you'rejust in a place where you didn't
(29:22):
imagine you were going to endup, but it's yeah, kind of the
vibe of it kind of crept ontothe recording.
I think it was good.
Marc Matthews (29:27):
I think it does good?
I think it does, doesn't it?
You kind of get like inspiredby your environment, knowing
who's been there and whatthey've recorded before.
You can't help but get inspiredby that um.
So I suppose that, in a way,that could also be a tip.
I mean, it's easier said thandone, isn't it just?
I think I'm just going to rockup of a, uh, someone's studio,
but I mean, if you've got it,then use it.
(29:49):
If you've got that access, yeah, yeah.
Aisle9 (29:53):
It could be good doing something like that, to actually
go to a studio and track thestuff and then mix it yourselves
afterwards and add additionalthings so that you've got kind
of more of a band vibe, ifthat's the way you make it.
But then of course some peopleI don't know Xander maybe
records on his own, and if he'sjust recording all the parts
himself, then maybe that's notnecessary, you know another
(30:16):
thing to consider.
Marc Matthews (30:17):
Uh, so there we go half an hour.
So, xander, I think, um, thathas answered the question in
some way, shape or form.
So I hope that was useful.
And if you do have a questionthat you would like Tim and I to
attempt I say attempt to answeron the podcast, please do click
the link in the episodedescription.
Submit that SpeakPipe audiomessage, remember?
(30:39):
Hey, it's XYZ.
My question for marketing isyou can find me at whatever
you've got going on, submit that.
Alternatively I didn't say thisat the beginning if submitting
audio is not your thing, justping me an email mark at
synthmusicmasteringcom or followme or DM me on Instagram at
(31:00):
Inside the Mix Podcast.
Either way, do submit and getfeatured on the podcast.
There we go, tim.
It's been a pleasure.
Thank you very much for joiningme on this.
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