August 5, 2025 • 32 mins
Struggling with too many vocal takes? You nailed the perfect take, then recorded five more “just in case.” Now you’re lost in a sea of options, wondering how to create the perfect comp without losing your mind.
In this episode of Inside the Mix, Marc Matthews and Tim Benson (Aisle9) reveal their proven strategies for organising takes and building seamless vocal comps. Learn how to avoid over-recording, why comping during the editing phase keeps your mixing sessions stress-free, and the ideal number of takes before vocal fatigue hits.
We’ll cover:
- How to organise multiple takes efficiently in your DAW
- The right way to edit without clicks or pops
- Why real double-tracking beats any plugin
- How to manage performance anxiety and red light syndrome
Whether you’re producing your music or working with artists, this episode gives you practical tools to streamline your workflow and get pro results, without the chaos.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Marc Matthews (00:00):
Have you ever laid down the perfect vocal take
, or just a take in general, butthen recorded two more just in
case?
Now you've got three versionsof the same performance and the
big question is what do you keep, what do you comp and when do
you let go?
In this episode, we're divinginto a super common workflow
dilemma.
How do you organize vocal takes, or just any take in general,
(00:23):
to be honest, so you're notoverwhelmed when it's time to
mix?
Tim Benson (00:29):
You're listening to the Inside the Mix podcast with
your host, Mark Matthews.
Marc Matthews (00:34):
Welcome to Inside the Mix, your go-to podcast for
music creation and production.
Whether you're crafting yourfirst track or refining your
mixing skills, join me each weekfor expert interviews,
practical tutorials and insightsto help you level up your music
and smash it in the musicindustry.
Let's dive in.
Hey folks, welcome back, orwelcome to, Inside the Mix.
(00:57):
It is summer and it is very,very hot.
Today I'm joined again by mygood friend from the Southwest,
Tim Benson, aka Aisle9.
And we're here answering aquestion from you.
And the question is this how doyou organize takes?
Say, you have three takes for avocal track.
Do you do that in the editingphase and then get rid of the
(01:20):
unused takes for the mixingphase?
So if you're ever stuck sorting10 vocal takes at 1am I don't
know why I've put that in mynotes, wondering which one was
the right one.
This episode is for you.
So that is the question.
But before we do that, Tim, howare you?
How are things?
Tim Benson (01:36):
I'm very good, thanks.
Yeah, I've had a ratherrelaxing weekend, sort of a bit
of a birthday weekend.
On Saturday it was my birthday,so I've just been chilling out
and uh, hanging around withfamily and uh, it's been very
nice, yeah, very nice very nice.
Marc Matthews (01:53):
we were discussing off air how hot it's
been, because we're recordingthis stupid day after the heat
wave, aren't we?
Uh, which was I'm glad we wedidn't do this yesterday,
because in here it would havebeen disgusting, yeah it's
pretty roasty in here.
I'm in the eaves of my house,and so that's where my studio is
(02:14):
, so it's pretty roasty oh wait,our bedroom is in the eaves of
our place and on the first floorit was 28 degrees and it was a
few degrees warmer up in theeaves.
And then we got a cat thatcan't go outside.
Tim Benson (02:28):
We can't have the windows open, oh dear.
Marc Matthews (02:32):
So I'm just sweating and just disintegrating
from my very eyes.
Tim Benson (02:38):
We've got a handy thing for windows that you can't
open because animals will divethrough.
Tell me more.
We've got a mesh type thing,like a cloth mesh, yeah.
You kind of pin all around yourwindow and then, in theory, a
cat, or in our case a dog,doesn't jump through it.
But, like you know, that's thetheory, does it?
Marc Matthews (02:59):
work well, because I considered this.
But then I thought my cat wouldhe?
Just scratch his way through it.
He's a bit of a beast.
Tim Benson (03:07):
Yeah, that is true.
You see, cats are clever enoughto scratch their way through it
and round it or something.
Dogs aren't really cleverenough to do that.
But, like, the problem withdogs is they are stupid enough
to just jump into it and I'm notsure it'll really hold him.
So I just sort of see thiscartoon dog like flying.
(03:27):
Sure it'll really hold him.
Marc Matthews (03:27):
So I just sort of see this cartoon dog like
flying the other way orsomething.
I don't know.
Tim Benson (03:30):
But like yeah, yeah, yeah, sorry, go about no, we
got a we got a baby gate.
We've got this new rescue dogthat's part whip it and we got a
baby gate to stop him cominginto our kitchen when we're
cooking, only to sort of besitting in their cookie way
going.
Oh, it's great we got the babygate.
Why is the dog in here?
Marc Matthews (03:46):
he just straight over the gate, just just ignored
it and I did it four more timesand we just went well that's
rubbish, isn't it?
so yeah yeah, just like thatdoesn't stop a whip it you know,
it's just like not bothered Ido have visions of that because
I I again I toyed with it withthe mesh over the window and I
thought you know what?
(04:06):
I can just see him leaningagainst it and then he'll go out
the window and then he'sstraight onto the sloping roof
and then it's just two floors tothe ground and I don't know, I
don't think he'd do well withthat.
I kind of look out the windowand I think, mate, like you can
see it's sloping.
What do you think is going tohappen?
Tim Benson (04:23):
if you go out there.
Marc Matthews (04:24):
Obviously, the animal doesn't see it that way.
But there we go anyway, on touh this episode.
Before we do that, folks, asalways with these, uh, because
this is I don't know how manytimes we've done this now, but
anyway, uh, if you do have aquestion, we'd love to hear from
you so you can click thespeakpipe link in the episode
description and send us a voicenote or a question.
(04:46):
Again, with speakpipe you don'tneed an account, you can use
your mobile phone.
It's like sending a voicemessage.
Alternatively, there is a linkthere and you can just send a
message, send a message through,so you don't actually have to
use speakpipe if you don't wantto.
If you just want to send amessage, click that send a
message button and you can justsend a, a text message.
I guess they call it.
No one's actually ever usedthat yet, so you could be the
first if you try that, butbecause I've never used it, if
(05:08):
you do do that, make sure thatyou put your name at the end of
it so I know who you are.
So back onto this topic.
So we're talking about comping.
So we're going to talk aboutwhat we do when we comp, how we
clean up takes and why leavingjust in case takes can backfire.
I've got that in my notes.
I've never really had thatbackfire on me, so I'm not
(05:29):
totally sure why I put that inthere, but I must have put it
there for a reason.
So, comping vocals or justcomping in general.
Now, admittedly, I work in apost-production sort of realm
these days, so I don't do amassive amount.
But when I was in the studioenvironment and recording bands,
recording individuals, um, Ithink it's par for the course
(05:51):
that you just record multipletakes and in doing so you've got
that backup further down theline.
And I was always of the mindsetas well I'd even record when
they were warming up andspecifically with vocalists I
don't know if you ever did that,but I'd always record when,
when they were warming up, incase you get that like perfect
take when they're trying to do ademo.
You can never get it again.
(06:12):
I'd always do that.
But when it came to comping, Ialways did that in the editing
phase.
So I wouldn't do any comping orany of that during the
recording phase and I wouldn'talso do it in the mixing phase,
because I sort ofcompartmentalize it recording,
editing, mixing, mastering forme, if I'm producing my own
stuff, there's some productionin there somewhere, but I always
(06:34):
comp it in the editing phase,bounce it in place, so it's just
one solid track as such audioregion, and then move on to the
mixing phase.
I'm assuming cubase is probablythe same, but even bouncing it
in place, I've still got accessto the old pre-comped takes if I
do need them.
But I then hide them in logic.
(06:55):
So that's that's sort of mywork.
I don't think there's a massiveamount to go through, really,
it's just a case of.
I suppose one question would behow many?
How many takes is enough?
When?
When do you stop?
Because sometimes I've had this, specifically with guitars,
right where, because I'm an okayguitarist but I'm always
(07:19):
searching for that perfect takeand sometimes I need to know
when actually you know whatenough's enough.
How many takes is too many?
I suppose that's a goodquestion, but I'll get your
thoughts on it.
So what are your thoughts?
Tim Benson (07:29):
and on comping and just uh that process um, yeah,
for me, I mean, bit like you, Iwill sort of roll sort of when
I'm doing a session, probablyfrom the beginning, just in case
anything start happening.
I want to capture anything thatmight be good because sometimes
when people are relaxed and notthinking about it too much,
(07:49):
they come up with better stuffthan when they go right.
Red lights on first take.
Got to get this right.
I won't comp, like obviouslyinitially when we're in a vocal
session I would sort of do onetake, then another take,
(08:11):
probably.
Personally I tend to do aboutthree takes if possible the
whole way through the song.
Um, so that you kind of get aperformance element, because I
think you want to get that sortof performance in the vocal.
I think after three takes allthe way through a song, a lot of
(08:33):
vocalists will be losing theirstamina, losing their their
thing, and you've got to watchout that you don't overdo
anything on the vocalist andstart to tire their voice out.
But then I think I generallystop and have a break with the
vocalist and go through thosethree takes and actually say
have we got something that welike here?
(08:54):
And maybe I will do a bit ofcomping at that point and sort
of comp with them through thevocal take so that we've maybe
got a vocal take we can listenback to and if we've got a vocal
take we can listen back to, andif we've got a vocal take we
can listen back to and we gowe're happy, great, we move on.
More than likely we're going tofind we've got a few little
bits and pieces that aren'tquite right the over.
(09:15):
Hopefully we've got an overalltake in there between the three
takes that we can put togetherand then maybe we drop in any
parts that aren't aren't thatgood.
So if we've got a few littleproblems you know to fix, we'll
just do them and then at the endof the session, hopefully
that's it, you've.
(09:35):
You've got that vocal take, butof course you've also got to
think most vocal sessions you'vegot to do the main vocal, then
you've got to do a double of themain vocal for you know, people
always forget to double trackthings, like I know.
I get this a lot when peoplesend me things and they've got
oh it's all right, I just copiedit onto this other track and I
go no, no, you do realize that'sjust rubbish it will not help
(10:00):
in any way, shape or form.
We've got the same chat twice,so that just is like louder,
yeah, you know.
Like, yeah, you know it's notgoing to help.
So you know, yeah, that thingof double tracking is not easy
to fake in the studio either.
You, really it's best to do itliterally.
To go right, I've got my, whichis why I think it's helpful to
(10:22):
comp your vocal take, if you can, in the studio to get a pretty
solid idea.
I wouldn't bounce it necessarilyat that point, but then I'd do
a double against it and try andget a decent double.
And then you've got to think ofall the backing vocals and
you've got to double all thebacking vocals and do all of
(10:42):
that stuff.
And I would do all of thatreligiously every vocal, every
backing vocal, double everysingle one of them and get all
of the stuff that I want there,um, and during the recording
session, so that it's all there.
When it comes to a bit moreediting, obviously later on, and
then mixing, but I think, likeyou, I would separate.
(11:02):
I mean, the editing is probablywhat I do at the beginning of a
mixing session.
A lot for me, I get a folderand then I go through it all
before I start mixing.
But I know what you mean.
I don't want to be deciding ontakes in the middle of mixing no
, this is it.
Marc Matthews (11:19):
I feel like if I was in the flow of mixing a
vocal and then suddenly I've, ifI was in the flow of of mixing
a vocal and then suddenly I'vegot, oh, I've got to quickly go
in and comp this, uh, when I'min there trying to, yeah, just
getting the flow of things andjust listening to that that
static mix and gettingeverything working together, I
don't want to have to then stickmy cans on and then dive into a
comp to make sure it's all.
That's why, yeah, I kind oflike them having.
(11:41):
I mean, there's no reason youcan't do it.
But for me, like I said thatit's not something I want, to
want to go through sections,because this, this reminds me of
a story I heard I think it wasbilly eilish's recordings and
phineas, because they, they dohats off to the great production
, they do it all themselves.
But I heard something along thelines of that they have hundreds
(12:02):
, hundreds of comps, um, in intheir text, which, which is
quite interesting, which makesme think they must be doing in
tiny sections, and that Isuppose that's what I've always
done when it comes to recordinginstruments, that I do it
section by section.
Is that something you follow aswell?
Would you have you ever donelike a whole track in one and
then just another one, andanother one, and then taking the
(12:23):
best bits?
Tim Benson (12:24):
I, yeah, I mean I will do.
But a lot of the time when I'mrecording myself, like I'm
putting guitar parts, bass partson things like keep certainly
keyboard parts, my keyboard playwould manage a whole track.
But like, yeah, my, yeah, I, Idefinitely I will, I will just
work on a section till I get itright.
And yeah, I'm quite happy doingthat, like with guitars and
(12:47):
bass and things.
Um, I don't know, it's weird,like some things I tend to play
a bit more all through the likebass for some reason.
I can't tell you why, but Itend to sort of, if I know what
I'm doing and how the track goes, how the song goes, I might
actually, if I was putting somebass down or something, play the
entire way through it maybe andthen go back and work on
(13:09):
sections until but I do likethat kind of thing of getting
something in there the whole waythrough, but like, I often end
up going back and working on asection until it's right, you
know, um, until I feel like I'venailed it.
The bass.
Marc Matthews (13:25):
One's interesting because it reminds me of when I
was in the band and our bassistwould come in and he'd just
rock up and then he would justfly through the track not all of
them, but certainly a lot ofthem in just one take and then
do another take and another takeafter that.
It must be something to do withthe vibe, I guess, when they
(13:47):
get locked in.
I'm not a bassist, I I do thesame I'm.
I play back when I need bass.
Depending on the genre of trackI'm working on, I'll play bass
and then usually I just say mate, my bass is rubbish, can you
come in and replace?
it, I'm just getting ideas down,but there is something about it
that you just I sort of getlocked in as much as I can, and
then I just want to continue,yeah, and then move on from that
.
Tim Benson (14:05):
I think something about the transitions that
happen when you're thinking of,like you know, verse into chorus
, into bridge and whatever, likeyou know, these sorts of things
that you when, certainly onbass, it's quite important.
I guess it's important onguitar, but, like you know,
you've got to think bass oftenis keying in with the drums and
(14:27):
often those the drums areplaying over those changes and
giving you the feel of moving.
If you've got live drum, staysthat over the over, sort of from
the end of the sort of verseinto the chorus or something and
how, and maybe you're sort ofplaying over the changes a bit.
So like you sort of want toplay over them rather than just
go right, I'm doing this for theverse, this for the chorus, you
(14:50):
know that kind of thing.
So maybe that's part of it, Idon't know getting in the groove
of it, in the feel of it.
Marc Matthews (14:55):
Yeah.
Tim Benson (14:56):
And locking with a drummer and that kind of thing,
which is very important withbass.
But I mean, some people arejust I I've recorded musicians
who just like, yeah, amazing atjust nailing things like really
quickly.
Or if they haven't nailed it,they know what they did wrong in
their first take and they'll goback and do another take and
they'll fix all the things thatwent wrong in the first yeah,
(15:17):
yeah, the second one and, likeyou know, amazing like that.
But I do tend to work a bit moreon individual bits until I've
nailed them.
Yeah.
Marc Matthews (15:26):
Yeah, I would say I do the same.
I remember drummers.
The drummer in my band was likethat and he would just he'd be
able to just on the button tothe click because it was metal
knock them out.
And I'd be like, oh man, nowI've got to come record my
guitar parts and then everythingslows down.
When it comes to recording meplaying guitar, I'm like, no, no
, we need to break that downsection by section.
(15:48):
Or like you, bear a speed,because I can't quite play it
fast.
Tim Benson (15:54):
Yeah yeah, exactly, I mean.
But like with vocals, yeah,you've, I mean.
Another thing you've got to bereally careful with the vocals
is things like recording andgetting a slightly different
sound or a different feel onlike you take a break, you come
back, you go down the pub andcome back.
I've had that in sessions andlike I would just like leave
(16:15):
that there and I'll come back toit and then I'll keep that
vocal.
And I mean one guy who likeused to sort of do multiple
takes on his vocals over daysand days and days and like he
would have 99 takes on a vocal,literally like insane amount of
takes on the vocal becausethey're recorded on different
days and like it'd sound totallydifferent on one day to another
so I'd often say you know, youdo realize all of these takes
(16:38):
don't work.
With all of these takes theyjust don't sound good.
So you know, you've got to keepthat feeling, haven't you, of
it being one thing.
It wants to feel like one thingat the other end.
Marc Matthews (16:49):
So got to watch your transitions, you know I'd
agree and I noticed that more so, for example, doing the podcast
stuff and when I listened toepisodes I've recorded
previously and I had a bit of anissue with with my throat and I
could tell when I was in thethroes of the issue.
I say, my throat my just abovemy vocal cords and they're had
ulcers on them, basically, and Icould tell when this was
(17:10):
happening when I was listeningback, because my voice was just
getting like huskier and huskier, which some might sound so
excited, quite nice, um, but tome it may sound, but it wasn't
pleasant for me, but I couldtell and little things like that
matters less, say, for apodcast.
But yeah, it certainly makes adifference.
(17:32):
But I'm glad you mentioned thatbecause I was going to say
errors or rather things to watchout for when it comes to
comping.
And this is one in particular Ithought was quite important
because I was sent a session, aLogic Pro session, because
sometimes I do that If they'reusing Logic, I'll say just send
me this session, specifically ifthey're using Logic Pro plugins
, because I can just open it upand I can go in and work from
(17:52):
what they have.
And they were comping the vocalin there and what I noticed in
particular was the lack ofadherence to the I'm assuming
it's the same in other daws butwhere you have those, where you
are comping those takes andwhere you're placing the I guess
you call it the comp line, Idon't actually know what it's
(18:14):
called and making sure that itdoesn't go over a wave, far like
an actual, a waveform, thewaveform itself, because what I
was finding is where theyhaven't gone in and dug in
enough.
They were comping it so that itwas sort of like if they had a
particular phrasing, it washalfway through the word and
then it was just sounded reallyodd.
So one thing that I've noticedI've noticed on more than one
(18:37):
occasion when individuals havesent me their projects is that
they're not due diligence,paying enough time to actually
where they're positioning thoselines when it comes to comping
and make sure and it's not across waveform, because you get
weird clicks, pops and all sortsof stuff happening um.
Tim Benson (18:51):
So that's just one thing to watch out for that I've
seen might be useful for theaudience listening you can also,
like I mean, you need tosometimes think of, like, where
it goes from verse to chorus orsomething like that, or even the
ends of lines.
Sometimes you've got this weirdthing of needing to cross over,
like I mean, I know in realityas a vocalist you can't do that,
but like um, maybe it's just meand my appalling breath control
(19:16):
, but I find it useful.
Sometimes, like you know,you're kind of singing and you
go like, really, this note wantsto kind of carry on just a
little bit, but then I want tohave come in sharp with the next
vocal.
So actually, of course, you'renot going to be able to do that
all on one line, so you actuallycreate another channel.
(19:37):
Just do your verse part one andverse part two comes in on
channel two and then choruscomes in on another channel.
So, so you've got these sort ofones where there's just a little
overlap between, like, vocalsand I mean, I mean, often that
happens in songs and there's noreason why not to do it, um, and
(19:58):
you can make it sound entirelynatural.
But, like, if you're going todo that, you'll need a few
channels to split your, yourtakes across, um, you know,
rather than just trying to dothem all on one and then having
these awkward bits where it sortof just it doesn't feel like a
good intersection as one thingcuts off and the other comes
yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly,and no amount of flex time or
(20:20):
what have you or moving it aboutis going to be able to fix it.
Uh, yeah, just try to avoid allthat kind of fixing.
Marc Matthews (20:30):
That is, I've said it on the podcast before,
but it's like, if you've got thetime and you know you need to
do it, just get it right atsource, just re-record it.
That's my thought process, ifyou can.
I appreciate not everybody can.
Maybe they paid for studio timeand they cannot go back in, or
they haven't got access to XYZor I don't know.
(20:52):
The singer's dropped off theplanet of the earth, which does
happen.
Tim Benson (20:57):
Here's a question for you If you're tracking
vocals like that during yoursession, do you apply autotune
while you're tracking so thatthe person is singing live
through auto-tune, which somepeople do um or do you take no
auto-tune while the person'ssinging, but when you play the
(21:17):
take back, do you put auto-tuneon it a little bit of auto-tune
so that they sound psychology intune yeah, or do you put no
auto to tune on it and so all ofthe um defaults are laid bare
and hopefully you kind of get itas close to as good as possible
before any tuning goes on itthe short answer is no, what
(21:41):
what I've done?
Marc Matthews (21:42):
what I do is, uh, and I was quite stickler for
this I'll be on the um, thetalkback mic, uh, close, but
maybe just one more time.
That's usually what it was, butin the cans it's usually uh.
I would just go with reverb.
Yeah, just a bit of reverb inthere, like every reverb
sweetens Everything, is the, theelixir of audio when I
(22:10):
recording.
But I in my head I'd like, ifI've never actually used
auto-tune when recording, butI'm I'm thinking actually, if I
did that, then if it's kind ofcorrecting their that recording
and they are slightly off, thatmeans I've now committed, yeah,
to using that auto-tune yeah,and you've got that dodgy piece
of audio that exactly wasn'tvery good in the first place
yeah.
However, I can see the benefitof using it when you play it
(22:33):
back to them from apsychological perspective,
saying because they might bethinking, oh, I'm not on it
today, I'm not feeling it, Ican't hear it, and then they
come back in and you're like no,no, have a listen, it sounds,
sounds, sounds great.
So psychologically I can seehow it would work, um, in that
respect, but no, I don't thinkI'd once I've.
Tim Benson (22:53):
I mean I tend to track with, if I'm in a studio
and got the option it dependshow you're doing it, but like,
if I've got the option ofoutboard bit of compression and,
um, a little bit of eq and youknow, and then obviously some
tracking reverb, not so thatyou're actually recording it,
but like so that you can justlisten to it while you're a
(23:13):
little bit of EQ and you know,and then obviously some tracking
reverb, not so that you'reactually recording it, but like
so that you can just listen toit while you're putting down
your vocal Then I will sort of,as I say, try and comp it with
them a little bit once we've gota few takes in there and then
do any fixes, and then I willput autotune on as we're
listening back, yeah, yeah, um,and try to sort of go well, look
(23:36):
, when we've got this all sortof fairly tidied up and with
some tune on, does it actuallywork, does it sit there?
Because if anything isn'tworking at that point, then I
know it's beyond, probably whataltitude is going to solve and
we really need to go in and fixit.
But I won't use it while we'reessentially tracking, because
I'm just trying to get the vocaltake as good as possible.
(23:59):
But yeah, I mean afterwards Iwill have a little listen back
with it on because if it's goingawry or not not not working too
well, you need to know perhapsindeed.
Marc Matthews (24:12):
Yeah, you kind of want to know.
It probably goes against what Iwas saying earlier with regards
to getting it right at source,but if you, if you're recording
something and then you do that,like like you say there, and
then you realize you know whatthis, this isn't going to work,
no matter like I've done thisnow.
Tim Benson (24:26):
Um, now we should fix it rather than yeah, yeah
now we still need to get thatbit nailed yeah, yeah, yeah,
definitely and also it can.
You're right, it can make themfeel better, because it can sort
of sit it in and they cansweeten it a bit and they can go
.
Marc Matthews (24:40):
Oh, that sounds good yeah, the psychology of the
studio, psychology yes indeedit's.
It's a very that red lightsyndrome.
As soon as that red light goeson, then you're in the
headlights, so to speak.
But I think we've pretty muchexercised, we've exhausted.
That's what I was looking forComping.
(25:01):
So what was the originalquestion?
How do you organize takes?
Yeah, we've been through that.
And do you do that in theediting phase and then get rid
of the unused takes?
So, yeah, I think we probablypretty much agreed it's in the
editing phase, but you mentionedthere again that you also do
some of it in the recordingphase, just to get an idea of
what it could sound like.
And if you are double trackingas well.
Um, yeah, double tracking,that's what I was going to come
(25:22):
back to just before we finished.
I don't know what it is, maybeit's just the school of
recording that I went to, but Ijust double track everything.
I think it's just a given.
Yeah, even if I don't, I'm notnever going to use it, I'm just
and DI yeah, yeah, exactly withguitars and bass as well.
Even if I have no intention ofever using the DI, I will.
I will DI bass and guitar, justso I've got a clean signal.
(25:43):
Yeah, I, yeah, I always do thatas well.
I think it's just somethingthat has just been drilled into
me and yeah, I mean guitartracks.
Tim Benson (25:51):
I just think they're always worth double tracking.
I mean, obviously, bass issomething we don't really double
track, and you know drums aswell, unless you, you know
double tracking drums, but likeum, yeah, but everything else,
yeah.
I mean, yeah, tambourine, don'ttry to double track, but like
you know, yes, like vocals andguitars, acoustic guitars sound
(26:15):
lovely double tracked and youknow you can try all kinds of
fun things with double tracks aswell.
You don't actually have to.
It's like the Nashville thingwhere you've got one acoustic
guitar in one tuning and thenone in an Nashville tuning and
they double track playing.
But because the tunings of thestrings are different although
they're playing the same chords,they end up sounding really
(26:38):
nice sort of like a 12 stringkind of effect and that you know
.
But there is no button in thestudio, no plug-in.
That really makes doubletracking for you, because it's
that variance of timing andpitch only subtle, but like that
gives you this lovely wide sortof thing when you pan it out
(27:00):
yeah, I haven't recorded.
Marc Matthews (27:01):
I've been meaning to get an acoustic guitar again
.
I haven't recorded acousticguitar in years but I always
found really good, foundenjoyment in recording acoustic
guitars and testing differentmicrophone configurations.
Um, I always found that reallyfun.
I love doing that because youcan acoustic guitars can sound
absolutely incredible and justwhat they do.
(27:23):
And this experimentexperimenting with microphone
configurations, microphoneplacement is so, so good.
That's probably the bit Ienjoyed the most when I was in
the studio.
I'd say the tangent here,probably the least, was
recording drums.
To be honest, just a lot of,just a lot involved.
That's probably why I now justdo posts.
Somebody rang me today askingif I could help them with
(27:43):
regards to recording and I wasjust like I'll be honest with
you, I do Send me your stemswhen you're done and then we'll
move on from there.
Um, but, yeah, again a tangent.
Um, tim, I think we've, as Isaid, I think we've exhausted
comping there.
Um, yes, we have.
You mentioned a few things inthere.
Uh, that I think I've gotpenciled in for future
(28:03):
discussions.
One was compression going in andrecording so we won't touch on
that now, but it is a questionthat, uh, I think we're going to
cover in a in a laterdiscussion, because it's on my
list my notes, which would bequite an interesting one, um,
but as always, before we wrapthings up, uh, any releases,
anything going on yes, I well, Idon't know when this is coming
(28:27):
out.
Tim Benson (28:27):
When will this be out, this episode?
Let me check.
Marc Matthews (28:30):
You know.
I really need to put this inthe notes.
Tim Benson (28:35):
5th of August it should be out by then.
If I don't mess it up, I'mplanning, I think, for a release
of my album on the 1st of July.
Sorry, 1st of August.
Friday, the 1st of August, um,is that right?
Yeah, um and um, yeah, so I'veI've been working on an album
(28:57):
for quite a while now and um, Ithink it's.
Yeah, I keep changing the title, so I'm not going to commit to
the title at the moment, but,like the um, it might be called
paradise cove.
At the moment, that is, that isthe leading one.
It's been called nine thousandsteep and paradise cove, so
they're totally different vibesto it.
It's kind of a, because it'sgot a very sort of light side to
(29:19):
it and a darker side to it.
So you know it's, I'm justtrying to find something that
works for it.
But like, yeah, it's verycoastly.
Um connected this album.
So you know, and uh, quite afew singles have already been
out from it.
But, like um, there's a wholeload of new stuff on it as well
that no one's ever heard.
And yeah, that's going to becoming out on spotify and apple
(29:40):
and all the rest of it, and thenit's uh, also going to be out
on my band camp.
But yeah, so that's prettyexciting.
I haven't released an albumsince somewhere in the 90s, when
I was at university, oncassettes.
So you know, like.
So it's going to be quitesomething for me to actually put
an album together, like, soit's been taking me a while, but
(30:01):
yeah, I think it's going to beworth it.
I think it's going to be a goodalbum.
Marc Matthews (30:05):
Definitely, mate.
Yeah, be worth it.
I think it's going to be a goodgood, definitely, yeah.
Yeah, I think it's a good timeto release a coastal themed
album as well, like, yeah,that's the walk-ins, um, but no,
I'll put links to it in theshow notes as well.
So, audience, do go and checkthat out.
I have some great stuff onthere, as we've already included
links to some of the releasesalready on previous episodes.
So if you check those out, youyou know what to expect.
(30:28):
Yeah, indeed, exciting times,mate.
It's uh, a lot of work thatgoes into an album.
It's been a while, veryprobably over 10 years, since I
released an album and there werefive of us doing it then as
opposed to one.
Tim Benson (30:40):
So um, I've done so many albums for other people.
It's untrue.
Just like yeah, I've lost count.
But like um, yeah, my own justhasn't happened in the meantime
no, fair play mate.
Marc Matthews (30:51):
It's a lot of good.
When I did the ep at the end of2003, 2003, uh, in school, and
in 2023, uh, a lot went intothat and that was only four
songs.
Yeah, um, yeah, so a great ep.
Tim Benson (31:05):
Oh, thanks mate.
Yeah, thank you very much.
Marc Matthews (31:08):
Folks, if you've got a question I mentioned this
at the beginning that you'd likeus to hash out, do click that
SpeakPipe link, send us an audiomessage.
Alternatively, just click theSend Message button and you can
send us a question, and you canalso give yourself a shout-out
as well.
Maybe that you want announcedon the podcast, tim.
Thank you very much.
Until next time, folks, stayinspired, keep creating and keep
(31:33):
experimenting inside the mix.
Have you ever laid down the perfect vocal take
, or just a take in general, butthen recorded two more just in
case?
Now you've got three versionsof the same performance and the
big question is what do you keep, what do you comp and when do
you let go?
In this episode, we're divinginto a super common workflow
dilemma.
How do you organize vocal takes, or just any take in general,
(00:23):
to be honest, so you're notoverwhelmed when it's time to
mix?
Tim Benson (00:29):
You're listening to the Inside the Mix podcast with
your host, Mark Matthews.
Marc Matthews (00:34):
Welcome to Inside the Mix, your go-to podcast for
music creation and production.
Whether you're crafting yourfirst track or refining your
mixing skills, join me each weekfor expert interviews,
practical tutorials and insightsto help you level up your music
and smash it in the musicindustry.
Let's dive in.
Hey folks, welcome back, orwelcome to, Inside the Mix.
(00:57):
It is summer and it is very,very hot.
Today I'm joined again by mygood friend from the Southwest,
Tim Benson, aka Aisle9.
And we're here answering aquestion from you.
And the question is this how doyou organize takes?
Say, you have three takes for avocal track.
Do you do that in the editingphase and then get rid of the
(01:20):
unused takes for the mixingphase?
So if you're ever stuck sorting10 vocal takes at 1am I don't
know why I've put that in mynotes, wondering which one was
the right one.
This episode is for you.
So that is the question.
But before we do that, Tim, howare you?
How are things?
Tim Benson (01:36):
I'm very good, thanks.
Yeah, I've had a ratherrelaxing weekend, sort of a bit
of a birthday weekend.
On Saturday it was my birthday,so I've just been chilling out
and uh, hanging around withfamily and uh, it's been very
nice, yeah, very nice very nice.
Marc Matthews (01:53):
we were discussing off air how hot it's
been, because we're recordingthis stupid day after the heat
wave, aren't we?
Uh, which was I'm glad we wedidn't do this yesterday,
because in here it would havebeen disgusting, yeah it's
pretty roasty in here.
I'm in the eaves of my house,and so that's where my studio is
(02:14):
, so it's pretty roasty oh wait,our bedroom is in the eaves of
our place and on the first floorit was 28 degrees and it was a
few degrees warmer up in theeaves.
And then we got a cat thatcan't go outside.
Tim Benson (02:28):
We can't have the windows open, oh dear.
Marc Matthews (02:32):
So I'm just sweating and just disintegrating
from my very eyes.
Tim Benson (02:38):
We've got a handy thing for windows that you can't
open because animals will divethrough.
Tell me more.
We've got a mesh type thing,like a cloth mesh, yeah.
You kind of pin all around yourwindow and then, in theory, a
cat, or in our case a dog,doesn't jump through it.
But, like you know, that's thetheory, does it?
Marc Matthews (02:59):
work well, because I considered this.
But then I thought my cat wouldhe?
Just scratch his way through it.
He's a bit of a beast.
Tim Benson (03:07):
Yeah, that is true.
You see, cats are clever enoughto scratch their way through it
and round it or something.
Dogs aren't really cleverenough to do that.
But, like, the problem withdogs is they are stupid enough
to just jump into it and I'm notsure it'll really hold him.
So I just sort of see thiscartoon dog like flying.
(03:27):
Sure it'll really hold him.
Marc Matthews (03:27):
So I just sort of see this cartoon dog like
flying the other way orsomething.
I don't know.
Tim Benson (03:30):
But like yeah, yeah, yeah, sorry, go about no, we
got a we got a baby gate.
We've got this new rescue dogthat's part whip it and we got a
baby gate to stop him cominginto our kitchen when we're
cooking, only to sort of besitting in their cookie way
going.
Oh, it's great we got the babygate.
Why is the dog in here?
Marc Matthews (03:46):
he just straight over the gate, just just ignored
it and I did it four more timesand we just went well that's
rubbish, isn't it?
so yeah yeah, just like thatdoesn't stop a whip it you know,
it's just like not bothered Ido have visions of that because
I I again I toyed with it withthe mesh over the window and I
thought you know what?
(04:06):
I can just see him leaningagainst it and then he'll go out
the window and then he'sstraight onto the sloping roof
and then it's just two floors tothe ground and I don't know, I
don't think he'd do well withthat.
I kind of look out the windowand I think, mate, like you can
see it's sloping.
What do you think is going tohappen?
Tim Benson (04:23):
if you go out there.
Marc Matthews (04:24):
Obviously, the animal doesn't see it that way.
But there we go anyway, on touh this episode.
Before we do that, folks, asalways with these, uh, because
this is I don't know how manytimes we've done this now, but
anyway, uh, if you do have aquestion, we'd love to hear from
you so you can click thespeakpipe link in the episode
description and send us a voicenote or a question.
(04:46):
Again, with speakpipe you don'tneed an account, you can use
your mobile phone.
It's like sending a voicemessage.
Alternatively, there is a linkthere and you can just send a
message, send a message through,so you don't actually have to
use speakpipe if you don't wantto.
If you just want to send amessage, click that send a
message button and you can justsend a, a text message.
I guess they call it.
No one's actually ever usedthat yet, so you could be the
first if you try that, butbecause I've never used it, if
(05:08):
you do do that, make sure thatyou put your name at the end of
it so I know who you are.
So back onto this topic.
So we're talking about comping.
So we're going to talk aboutwhat we do when we comp, how we
clean up takes and why leavingjust in case takes can backfire.
I've got that in my notes.
I've never really had thatbackfire on me, so I'm not
(05:29):
totally sure why I put that inthere, but I must have put it
there for a reason.
So, comping vocals or justcomping in general.
Now, admittedly, I work in apost-production sort of realm
these days, so I don't do amassive amount.
But when I was in the studioenvironment and recording bands,
recording individuals, um, Ithink it's par for the course
(05:51):
that you just record multipletakes and in doing so you've got
that backup further down theline.
And I was always of the mindsetas well I'd even record when
they were warming up andspecifically with vocalists I
don't know if you ever did that,but I'd always record when,
when they were warming up, incase you get that like perfect
take when they're trying to do ademo.
You can never get it again.
(06:12):
I'd always do that.
But when it came to comping, Ialways did that in the editing
phase.
So I wouldn't do any comping orany of that during the
recording phase and I wouldn'talso do it in the mixing phase,
because I sort ofcompartmentalize it recording,
editing, mixing, mastering forme, if I'm producing my own
stuff, there's some productionin there somewhere, but I always
(06:34):
comp it in the editing phase,bounce it in place, so it's just
one solid track as such audioregion, and then move on to the
mixing phase.
I'm assuming cubase is probablythe same, but even bouncing it
in place, I've still got accessto the old pre-comped takes if I
do need them.
But I then hide them in logic.
(06:55):
So that's that's sort of mywork.
I don't think there's a massiveamount to go through, really,
it's just a case of.
I suppose one question would behow many?
How many takes is enough?
When?
When do you stop?
Because sometimes I've had this, specifically with guitars,
right where, because I'm an okayguitarist but I'm always
(07:19):
searching for that perfect takeand sometimes I need to know
when actually you know whatenough's enough.
How many takes is too many?
I suppose that's a goodquestion, but I'll get your
thoughts on it.
So what are your thoughts?
Tim Benson (07:29):
and on comping and just uh that process um, yeah,
for me, I mean, bit like you, Iwill sort of roll sort of when
I'm doing a session, probablyfrom the beginning, just in case
anything start happening.
I want to capture anything thatmight be good because sometimes
when people are relaxed and notthinking about it too much,
(07:49):
they come up with better stuffthan when they go right.
Red lights on first take.
Got to get this right.
I won't comp, like obviouslyinitially when we're in a vocal
session I would sort of do onetake, then another take,
(08:11):
probably.
Personally I tend to do aboutthree takes if possible the
whole way through the song.
Um, so that you kind of get aperformance element, because I
think you want to get that sortof performance in the vocal.
I think after three takes allthe way through a song, a lot of
(08:33):
vocalists will be losing theirstamina, losing their their
thing, and you've got to watchout that you don't overdo
anything on the vocalist andstart to tire their voice out.
But then I think I generallystop and have a break with the
vocalist and go through thosethree takes and actually say
have we got something that welike here?
(08:54):
And maybe I will do a bit ofcomping at that point and sort
of comp with them through thevocal take so that we've maybe
got a vocal take we can listenback to and if we've got a vocal
take we can listen back to, andif we've got a vocal take we
can listen back to and we gowe're happy, great, we move on.
More than likely we're going tofind we've got a few little
bits and pieces that aren'tquite right the over.
(09:15):
Hopefully we've got an overalltake in there between the three
takes that we can put togetherand then maybe we drop in any
parts that aren't aren't thatgood.
So if we've got a few littleproblems you know to fix, we'll
just do them and then at the endof the session, hopefully
that's it, you've.
(09:35):
You've got that vocal take, butof course you've also got to
think most vocal sessions you'vegot to do the main vocal, then
you've got to do a double of themain vocal for you know, people
always forget to double trackthings, like I know.
I get this a lot when peoplesend me things and they've got
oh it's all right, I just copiedit onto this other track and I
go no, no, you do realize that'sjust rubbish it will not help
(10:00):
in any way, shape or form.
We've got the same chat twice,so that just is like louder,
yeah, you know.
Like, yeah, you know it's notgoing to help.
So you know, yeah, that thingof double tracking is not easy
to fake in the studio either.
You, really it's best to do itliterally.
To go right, I've got my, whichis why I think it's helpful to
(10:22):
comp your vocal take, if you can, in the studio to get a pretty
solid idea.
I wouldn't bounce it necessarilyat that point, but then I'd do
a double against it and try andget a decent double.
And then you've got to think ofall the backing vocals and
you've got to double all thebacking vocals and do all of
(10:42):
that stuff.
And I would do all of thatreligiously every vocal, every
backing vocal, double everysingle one of them and get all
of the stuff that I want there,um, and during the recording
session, so that it's all there.
When it comes to a bit moreediting, obviously later on, and
then mixing, but I think, likeyou, I would separate.
(11:02):
I mean, the editing is probablywhat I do at the beginning of a
mixing session.
A lot for me, I get a folderand then I go through it all
before I start mixing.
But I know what you mean.
I don't want to be deciding ontakes in the middle of mixing no
, this is it.
Marc Matthews (11:19):
I feel like if I was in the flow of mixing a
vocal and then suddenly I've, ifI was in the flow of of mixing
a vocal and then suddenly I'vegot, oh, I've got to quickly go
in and comp this, uh, when I'min there trying to, yeah, just
getting the flow of things andjust listening to that that
static mix and gettingeverything working together, I
don't want to have to then stickmy cans on and then dive into a
comp to make sure it's all.
That's why, yeah, I kind oflike them having.
(11:41):
I mean, there's no reason youcan't do it.
But for me, like I said thatit's not something I want, to
want to go through sections,because this, this reminds me of
a story I heard I think it wasbilly eilish's recordings and
phineas, because they, they dohats off to the great production
, they do it all themselves.
But I heard something along thelines of that they have hundreds
(12:02):
, hundreds of comps, um, in intheir text, which, which is
quite interesting, which makesme think they must be doing in
tiny sections, and that Isuppose that's what I've always
done when it comes to recordinginstruments, that I do it
section by section.
Is that something you follow aswell?
Would you have you ever donelike a whole track in one and
then just another one, andanother one, and then taking the
(12:23):
best bits?
Tim Benson (12:24):
I, yeah, I mean I will do.
But a lot of the time when I'mrecording myself, like I'm
putting guitar parts, bass partson things like keep certainly
keyboard parts, my keyboard playwould manage a whole track.
But like, yeah, my, yeah, I, Idefinitely I will, I will just
work on a section till I get itright.
And yeah, I'm quite happy doingthat, like with guitars and
(12:47):
bass and things.
Um, I don't know, it's weird,like some things I tend to play
a bit more all through the likebass for some reason.
I can't tell you why, but Itend to sort of, if I know what
I'm doing and how the track goes, how the song goes, I might
actually, if I was putting somebass down or something, play the
entire way through it maybe andthen go back and work on
(13:09):
sections until but I do likethat kind of thing of getting
something in there the whole waythrough, but like, I often end
up going back and working on asection until it's right, you
know, um, until I feel like I'venailed it.
The bass.
Marc Matthews (13:25):
One's interesting because it reminds me of when I
was in the band and our bassistwould come in and he'd just
rock up and then he would justfly through the track not all of
them, but certainly a lot ofthem in just one take and then
do another take and another takeafter that.
It must be something to do withthe vibe, I guess, when they
(13:47):
get locked in.
I'm not a bassist, I I do thesame I'm.
I play back when I need bass.
Depending on the genre of trackI'm working on, I'll play bass
and then usually I just say mate, my bass is rubbish, can you
come in and replace?
it, I'm just getting ideas down,but there is something about it
that you just I sort of getlocked in as much as I can, and
then I just want to continue,yeah, and then move on from that
.
Tim Benson (14:05):
I think something about the transitions that
happen when you're thinking of,like you know, verse into chorus
, into bridge and whatever, likeyou know, these sorts of things
that you when, certainly onbass, it's quite important.
I guess it's important onguitar, but, like you know,
you've got to think bass oftenis keying in with the drums and
(14:27):
often those the drums areplaying over those changes and
giving you the feel of moving.
If you've got live drum, staysthat over the over, sort of from
the end of the sort of verseinto the chorus or something and
how, and maybe you're sort ofplaying over the changes a bit.
So like you sort of want toplay over them rather than just
go right, I'm doing this for theverse, this for the chorus, you
(14:50):
know that kind of thing.
So maybe that's part of it, Idon't know getting in the groove
of it, in the feel of it.
Marc Matthews (14:55):
Yeah.
Tim Benson (14:56):
And locking with a drummer and that kind of thing,
which is very important withbass.
But I mean, some people arejust I I've recorded musicians
who just like, yeah, amazing atjust nailing things like really
quickly.
Or if they haven't nailed it,they know what they did wrong in
their first take and they'll goback and do another take and
they'll fix all the things thatwent wrong in the first yeah,
(15:17):
yeah, the second one and, likeyou know, amazing like that.
But I do tend to work a bit moreon individual bits until I've
nailed them.
Yeah.
Marc Matthews (15:26):
Yeah, I would say I do the same.
I remember drummers.
The drummer in my band was likethat and he would just he'd be
able to just on the button tothe click because it was metal
knock them out.
And I'd be like, oh man, nowI've got to come record my
guitar parts and then everythingslows down.
When it comes to recording meplaying guitar, I'm like, no, no
, we need to break that downsection by section.
(15:48):
Or like you, bear a speed,because I can't quite play it
fast.
Tim Benson (15:54):
Yeah yeah, exactly, I mean.
But like with vocals, yeah,you've, I mean.
Another thing you've got to bereally careful with the vocals
is things like recording andgetting a slightly different
sound or a different feel onlike you take a break, you come
back, you go down the pub andcome back.
I've had that in sessions andlike I would just like leave
(16:15):
that there and I'll come back toit and then I'll keep that
vocal.
And I mean one guy who likeused to sort of do multiple
takes on his vocals over daysand days and days and like he
would have 99 takes on a vocal,literally like insane amount of
takes on the vocal becausethey're recorded on different
days and like it'd sound totallydifferent on one day to another
so I'd often say you know, youdo realize all of these takes
(16:38):
don't work.
With all of these takes theyjust don't sound good.
So you know, you've got to keepthat feeling, haven't you, of
it being one thing.
It wants to feel like one thingat the other end.
Marc Matthews (16:49):
So got to watch your transitions, you know I'd
agree and I noticed that more so, for example, doing the podcast
stuff and when I listened toepisodes I've recorded
previously and I had a bit of anissue with with my throat and I
could tell when I was in thethroes of the issue.
I say, my throat my just abovemy vocal cords and they're had
ulcers on them, basically, and Icould tell when this was
(17:10):
happening when I was listeningback, because my voice was just
getting like huskier and huskier, which some might sound so
excited, quite nice, um, but tome it may sound, but it wasn't
pleasant for me, but I couldtell and little things like that
matters less, say, for apodcast.
But yeah, it certainly makes adifference.
(17:32):
But I'm glad you mentioned thatbecause I was going to say
errors or rather things to watchout for when it comes to
comping.
And this is one in particular Ithought was quite important
because I was sent a session, aLogic Pro session, because
sometimes I do that If they'reusing Logic, I'll say just send
me this session, specifically ifthey're using Logic Pro plugins
, because I can just open it upand I can go in and work from
(17:52):
what they have.
And they were comping the vocalin there and what I noticed in
particular was the lack ofadherence to the I'm assuming
it's the same in other daws butwhere you have those, where you
are comping those takes andwhere you're placing the I guess
you call it the comp line, Idon't actually know what it's
(18:14):
called and making sure that itdoesn't go over a wave, far like
an actual, a waveform, thewaveform itself, because what I
was finding is where theyhaven't gone in and dug in
enough.
They were comping it so that itwas sort of like if they had a
particular phrasing, it washalfway through the word and
then it was just sounded reallyodd.
So one thing that I've noticedI've noticed on more than one
(18:37):
occasion when individuals havesent me their projects is that
they're not due diligence,paying enough time to actually
where they're positioning thoselines when it comes to comping
and make sure and it's not across waveform, because you get
weird clicks, pops and all sortsof stuff happening um.
Tim Benson (18:51):
So that's just one thing to watch out for that I've
seen might be useful for theaudience listening you can also,
like I mean, you need tosometimes think of, like, where
it goes from verse to chorus orsomething like that, or even the
ends of lines.
Sometimes you've got this weirdthing of needing to cross over,
like I mean, I know in realityas a vocalist you can't do that,
but like um, maybe it's just meand my appalling breath control
(19:16):
, but I find it useful.
Sometimes, like you know,you're kind of singing and you
go like, really, this note wantsto kind of carry on just a
little bit, but then I want tohave come in sharp with the next
vocal.
So actually, of course, you'renot going to be able to do that
all on one line, so you actuallycreate another channel.
(19:37):
Just do your verse part one andverse part two comes in on
channel two and then choruscomes in on another channel.
So, so you've got these sort ofones where there's just a little
overlap between, like, vocalsand I mean, I mean, often that
happens in songs and there's noreason why not to do it, um, and
(19:58):
you can make it sound entirelynatural.
But, like, if you're going todo that, you'll need a few
channels to split your, yourtakes across, um, you know,
rather than just trying to dothem all on one and then having
these awkward bits where it sortof just it doesn't feel like a
good intersection as one thingcuts off and the other comes
yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly,and no amount of flex time or
(20:20):
what have you or moving it aboutis going to be able to fix it.
Uh, yeah, just try to avoid allthat kind of fixing.
Marc Matthews (20:30):
That is, I've said it on the podcast before,
but it's like, if you've got thetime and you know you need to
do it, just get it right atsource, just re-record it.
That's my thought process, ifyou can.
I appreciate not everybody can.
Maybe they paid for studio timeand they cannot go back in, or
they haven't got access to XYZor I don't know.
(20:52):
The singer's dropped off theplanet of the earth, which does
happen.
Tim Benson (20:57):
Here's a question for you If you're tracking
vocals like that during yoursession, do you apply autotune
while you're tracking so thatthe person is singing live
through auto-tune, which somepeople do um or do you take no
auto-tune while the person'ssinging, but when you play the
(21:17):
take back, do you put auto-tuneon it a little bit of auto-tune
so that they sound psychology intune yeah, or do you put no
auto to tune on it and so all ofthe um defaults are laid bare
and hopefully you kind of get itas close to as good as possible
before any tuning goes on itthe short answer is no, what
(21:41):
what I've done?
Marc Matthews (21:42):
what I do is, uh, and I was quite stickler for
this I'll be on the um, thetalkback mic, uh, close, but
maybe just one more time.
That's usually what it was, butin the cans it's usually uh.
I would just go with reverb.
Yeah, just a bit of reverb inthere, like every reverb
sweetens Everything, is the, theelixir of audio when I
(22:10):
recording.
But I in my head I'd like, ifI've never actually used
auto-tune when recording, butI'm I'm thinking actually, if I
did that, then if it's kind ofcorrecting their that recording
and they are slightly off, thatmeans I've now committed, yeah,
to using that auto-tune yeah,and you've got that dodgy piece
of audio that exactly wasn'tvery good in the first place
yeah.
However, I can see the benefitof using it when you play it
(22:33):
back to them from apsychological perspective,
saying because they might bethinking, oh, I'm not on it
today, I'm not feeling it, Ican't hear it, and then they
come back in and you're like no,no, have a listen, it sounds,
sounds, sounds great.
So psychologically I can seehow it would work, um, in that
respect, but no, I don't thinkI'd once I've.
Tim Benson (22:53):
I mean I tend to track with, if I'm in a studio
and got the option it dependshow you're doing it, but like,
if I've got the option ofoutboard bit of compression and,
um, a little bit of eq and youknow, and then obviously some
tracking reverb, not so thatyou're actually recording it,
but like so that you can justlisten to it while you're a
(23:13):
little bit of EQ and you know,and then obviously some tracking
reverb, not so that you'reactually recording it, but like
so that you can just listen toit while you're putting down
your vocal Then I will sort of,as I say, try and comp it with
them a little bit once we've gota few takes in there and then
do any fixes, and then I willput autotune on as we're
listening back, yeah, yeah, um,and try to sort of go well, look
(23:36):
, when we've got this all sortof fairly tidied up and with
some tune on, does it actuallywork, does it sit there?
Because if anything isn'tworking at that point, then I
know it's beyond, probably whataltitude is going to solve and
we really need to go in and fixit.
But I won't use it while we'reessentially tracking, because
I'm just trying to get the vocaltake as good as possible.
(23:59):
But yeah, I mean afterwards Iwill have a little listen back
with it on because if it's goingawry or not not not working too
well, you need to know perhapsindeed.
Marc Matthews (24:12):
Yeah, you kind of want to know.
It probably goes against what Iwas saying earlier with regards
to getting it right at source,but if you, if you're recording
something and then you do that,like like you say there, and
then you realize you know whatthis, this isn't going to work,
no matter like I've done thisnow.
Tim Benson (24:26):
Um, now we should fix it rather than yeah, yeah
now we still need to get thatbit nailed yeah, yeah, yeah,
definitely and also it can.
You're right, it can make themfeel better, because it can sort
of sit it in and they cansweeten it a bit and they can go
.
Marc Matthews (24:40):
Oh, that sounds good yeah, the psychology of the
studio, psychology yes indeedit's.
It's a very that red lightsyndrome.
As soon as that red light goeson, then you're in the
headlights, so to speak.
But I think we've pretty muchexercised, we've exhausted.
That's what I was looking forComping.
(25:01):
So what was the originalquestion?
How do you organize takes?
Yeah, we've been through that.
And do you do that in theediting phase and then get rid
of the unused takes?
So, yeah, I think we probablypretty much agreed it's in the
editing phase, but you mentionedthere again that you also do
some of it in the recordingphase, just to get an idea of
what it could sound like.
And if you are double trackingas well.
Um, yeah, double tracking,that's what I was going to come
(25:22):
back to just before we finished.
I don't know what it is, maybeit's just the school of
recording that I went to, but Ijust double track everything.
I think it's just a given.
Yeah, even if I don't, I'm notnever going to use it, I'm just
and DI yeah, yeah, exactly withguitars and bass as well.
Even if I have no intention ofever using the DI, I will.
I will DI bass and guitar, justso I've got a clean signal.
(25:43):
Yeah, I, yeah, I always do thatas well.
I think it's just somethingthat has just been drilled into
me and yeah, I mean guitartracks.
Tim Benson (25:51):
I just think they're always worth double tracking.
I mean, obviously, bass issomething we don't really double
track, and you know drums aswell, unless you, you know
double tracking drums, but likeum, yeah, but everything else,
yeah.
I mean, yeah, tambourine, don'ttry to double track, but like
you know, yes, like vocals andguitars, acoustic guitars sound
(26:15):
lovely double tracked and youknow you can try all kinds of
fun things with double tracks aswell.
You don't actually have to.
It's like the Nashville thingwhere you've got one acoustic
guitar in one tuning and thenone in an Nashville tuning and
they double track playing.
But because the tunings of thestrings are different although
they're playing the same chords,they end up sounding really
(26:38):
nice sort of like a 12 stringkind of effect and that you know
.
But there is no button in thestudio, no plug-in.
That really makes doubletracking for you, because it's
that variance of timing andpitch only subtle, but like that
gives you this lovely wide sortof thing when you pan it out
(27:00):
yeah, I haven't recorded.
Marc Matthews (27:01):
I've been meaning to get an acoustic guitar again
.
I haven't recorded acousticguitar in years but I always
found really good, foundenjoyment in recording acoustic
guitars and testing differentmicrophone configurations.
Um, I always found that reallyfun.
I love doing that because youcan acoustic guitars can sound
absolutely incredible and justwhat they do.
(27:23):
And this experimentexperimenting with microphone
configurations, microphoneplacement is so, so good.
That's probably the bit Ienjoyed the most when I was in
the studio.
I'd say the tangent here,probably the least, was
recording drums.
To be honest, just a lot of,just a lot involved.
That's probably why I now justdo posts.
Somebody rang me today askingif I could help them with
(27:43):
regards to recording and I wasjust like I'll be honest with
you, I do Send me your stemswhen you're done and then we'll
move on from there.
Um, but, yeah, again a tangent.
Um, tim, I think we've, as Isaid, I think we've exhausted
comping there.
Um, yes, we have.
You mentioned a few things inthere.
Uh, that I think I've gotpenciled in for future
(28:03):
discussions.
One was compression going in andrecording so we won't touch on
that now, but it is a questionthat, uh, I think we're going to
cover in a in a laterdiscussion, because it's on my
list my notes, which would bequite an interesting one, um,
but as always, before we wrapthings up, uh, any releases,
anything going on yes, I well, Idon't know when this is coming
(28:27):
out.
Tim Benson (28:27):
When will this be out, this episode?
Let me check.
Marc Matthews (28:30):
You know.
I really need to put this inthe notes.
Tim Benson (28:35):
5th of August it should be out by then.
If I don't mess it up, I'mplanning, I think, for a release
of my album on the 1st of July.
Sorry, 1st of August.
Friday, the 1st of August, um,is that right?
Yeah, um and um, yeah, so I'veI've been working on an album
(28:57):
for quite a while now and um, Ithink it's.
Yeah, I keep changing the title, so I'm not going to commit to
the title at the moment, but,like the um, it might be called
paradise cove.
At the moment, that is, that isthe leading one.
It's been called nine thousandsteep and paradise cove, so
they're totally different vibesto it.
It's kind of a, because it'sgot a very sort of light side to
(29:19):
it and a darker side to it.
So you know it's, I'm justtrying to find something that
works for it.
But like, yeah, it's verycoastly.
Um connected this album.
So you know, and uh, quite afew singles have already been
out from it.
But, like um, there's a wholeload of new stuff on it as well
that no one's ever heard.
And yeah, that's going to becoming out on spotify and apple
(29:40):
and all the rest of it, and thenit's uh, also going to be out
on my band camp.
But yeah, so that's prettyexciting.
I haven't released an albumsince somewhere in the 90s, when
I was at university, oncassettes.
So you know, like.
So it's going to be quitesomething for me to actually put
an album together, like, soit's been taking me a while, but
(30:01):
yeah, I think it's going to beworth it.
I think it's going to be a goodalbum.
Marc Matthews (30:05):
Definitely, mate.
Yeah, be worth it.
I think it's going to be a goodgood, definitely, yeah.
Yeah, I think it's a good timeto release a coastal themed
album as well, like, yeah,that's the walk-ins, um, but no,
I'll put links to it in theshow notes as well.
So, audience, do go and checkthat out.
I have some great stuff onthere, as we've already included
links to some of the releasesalready on previous episodes.
So if you check those out, youyou know what to expect.
(30:28):
Yeah, indeed, exciting times,mate.
It's uh, a lot of work thatgoes into an album.
It's been a while, veryprobably over 10 years, since I
released an album and there werefive of us doing it then as
opposed to one.
Tim Benson (30:40):
So um, I've done so many albums for other people.
It's untrue.
Just like yeah, I've lost count.
But like um, yeah, my own justhasn't happened in the meantime
no, fair play mate.
Marc Matthews (30:51):
It's a lot of good.
When I did the ep at the end of2003, 2003, uh, in school, and
in 2023, uh, a lot went intothat and that was only four
songs.
Yeah, um, yeah, so a great ep.
Tim Benson (31:05):
Oh, thanks mate.
Yeah, thank you very much.
Marc Matthews (31:08):
Folks, if you've got a question I mentioned this
at the beginning that you'd likeus to hash out, do click that
SpeakPipe link, send us an audiomessage.
Alternatively, just click theSend Message button and you can
send us a question, and you canalso give yourself a shout-out
as well.
Maybe that you want announcedon the podcast, tim.
Thank you very much.
Until next time, folks, stayinspired, keep creating and keep
(31:33):
experimenting inside the mix.
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