November 11, 2025 • 39 mins
Stop counting playlist streams and start building momentum where it matters. Marc Matthews and Tim Benson unpack a year of wins and lessons that took monthly listeners from modest to meaningful, and the theme is simple. When you optimise for saves, repeats and fast post-release engagement, Spotify’s algorithm does the heavy lifting. That means Radio, Discover Weekly, and personalised mixes begin to surface your music beyond your immediate circle—and the compounding effect beats a single playlist spike every time.
We share the unglamorous work that unlocks creativity at speed: DAW templates, organised drum kits, and a handful of trusted synth presets that act as launchpads instead of cages. There’s a balance to strike between efficiency and originality, so we talk about stepping away when tweaks turn into time sinks, coming back with fresh ears, and capturing the patches worth saving. We also get candid about release cadence and genre clarity. Keeping one artist profile sonically consistent helps Spotify place you next to the right peers; if you love variety, set up separate profiles so each lane feels coherent.
Collaboration sits at the heart of our 2026 plan. We’re reaching out to local vocalists to bring songs to life and share with audiences in a way that attracts editorial and radio attention. On the business side, we dig into the small but real revenue streams that stack: PRS, PPL, publishing admin via Songtrust or Sentric, DistroKid splits, and even modest YouTube monetisation. Add in smart seeding through SubmitHub and user curators to spark early signals, and you have a repeatable system that turns good music into sustainable growth.
Links mentioned in this episode:
Got a win from 2025 or a goal for 2026? We want to hear it, and we’re featuring listener wins on an upcoming show.
Ways to connect with Marc:
Listener Feedback Survey - tell me what YOU want in 2026
Radio-ready mixes start here - get the FREE weekly tips
Book your FREE Music Breakthrough Strategy Call
Follow Marc's Socials:
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Tim Benson (00:23):
I think people often get very bogged down in sort of
how many streams they're goingto get from a playlist or this,
that, or the other.
But I think the thing that'sreally important is triggering
the algorithm itself.
And if you trigger thealgorithm and Spotify Radio and
um, you know, uh Discover Weeklyand all the other algorithmic
playlists, if you get on themand you will only get on them if
(00:47):
Spotify sees people liking yoursong, saving your song,
listening to your song, whichdoes mean getting on other user
playlists.
That's very, very helpful.
Marc Matthews (00:58):
You're listening to the Inside the Mix podcast
with your host, Mark Matthews.
Welcome to Inside the Mix, yourgo-to podcast for music
creation and production.
Whether you're crafting yourfirst track or refining your
mixing skills, join me each weekfor expert interviews,
practical tutorials, andinsights to help you level up
(01:19):
your music and smash it in themusic industry.
Let's dive in.
Hey folks, welcome to Insidethe Mix.
Welcome back if you are areturning listener and if you're
a new listener or viewer, ifyou're watching this on YouTube,
a big welcome again.
In this episode, uh for thefinal time in 2025, I am joined
by my uh good friend and co-hostum from the county adjoining
(01:43):
Devon, uh Tim Benson, aka Isle9.
Tim, how are you?
How's how are things?
Tim Benson (01:50):
I'm alright.
I'm uh a little bit post uhpost-dose of the lovely COVID,
but I'm alright, yeah.
Marc Matthews (01:58):
Yeah, I think we were discussing this off air,
weren't we, about COVID?
It's where it's it's a weirdone, it goes all quiet, and then
suddenly you somebody you knowgets COVID and then you remember
it's a thing.
Yeah, exactly.
Tim Benson (02:08):
Yeah, we all forget it and then suddenly yeah, yeah.
I didn't the other week, andyou know, couple couple of weeks
actually, it's taken me to justsort of begin to feel a bit
more normal again.
Marc Matthews (02:19):
Yeah, it does knock you off your feet.
I mean, yeah, I'm quite lucky.
Three touch words, it's beenabout three years since I've had
it, to be fair.
So good, and I'll make thatcontinue, especially uh uh spoil
spoiler alert here for anyonewho does care.
Um, at the point recording thisis the 27th of October.
I'm getting married on the 31ston Halloween.
Yeah, so um yeah, fingerscrossed, I don't get it before
(02:41):
then.
Uh no, because yeah, my otherhalf, she would not be happy.
No, there'd be no sympathy forme.
Yeah, you'd like to do that.
Tim Benson (02:48):
You just have to not see anybody between now and
then, yeah.
Marc Matthews (02:51):
Which is quite quite quite good the way I the
way I work.
So generally, that uh that'spretty much what happens.
Don't really sit there.
Everything's done virtually, soit works out quite well.
Um this episode, folks, is uh Isaid in my notes there, I've
got we're wrapping up the yearwith a reflective episode.
Now, I appreciate the time thisepisode goes live, which is
(03:11):
going to be around mid-November,it's not really the end of the
year, but as we approach the endof the year, um I'm gonna be
doing more sort of episodeswhere I'm gonna be hosting other
podcasts that I listen to.
So um exchanging RSS feeds andjust letting you in on some of
the podcasts I listen to, andthey've kindly allowed me to um
share their content on Insidethe Mix and uh a couple of other
(03:33):
episode formats as well.
So this is gonna be really thelast opportunity that I get to
uh chat with Tim, for example,about what we're gonna be doing
differently in 2026 with regardsto our sort of creative path.
But I touched on their uh lastepisodes, folks.
Before we dive into that, I amactually building up uh the well
(03:54):
rather curating ideas forInside the Mix in 2026.
And there is a link in theepisode description.
Do click on that link becauseI'd love your feedback, your
input on what you enjoy aboutthe podcast, and maybe also or
rather, also what you would liketo hear or see from the podcast
in 2026, or maybe a format thatyou're not a particular fan of
(04:15):
that you'd like to see less of.
So always reflective.
So please do click on thatlink, and you can also share
your win of 2025 and get itfeatured on episode 227, which
is going to air on December the30th.
So in that episode, I'll besharing your win.
So please do click on thatlink.
Let me know what's going wellwith the podcast, maybe what
could be improved in 2026, andalso your win.
(04:35):
And you've got until Novemberthe 29th to do that if memory
serves.
So that's my call to action outthe way.
So yeah, in this episode, we'rereally looking at what um we're
gonna be doing differently in2026.
So I think as I do with allthese ones, I've I've wittered
(04:56):
on for a bit now.
So maybe I'll throw themicrophone over to you, Tim.
So thoughts and reflections,maybe what you'll do differently
in, or maybe develop.
Different might be the wrongword.
Progress.
Tim Benson (05:07):
Yes, well, uh I've sort of, you know, it feels a
little bit early in the year,doesn't it?
To be having like um, you know,sort of uh sort of new ideas
for 2026.
But um I feel like I have tohave that after I've eaten
Christmas pudding.
But like um I I I'm sort of Ifeel like I mean I've had a I've
(05:28):
had a really good year with mymusic actually.
It's done uh, you know, well,and I've uh I've had sort of a
further reach and more streamsand things than I have before
monthly listeners and stuff, sothat's been good.
I think though, um I sort ofone thing I I want to dumb sort
of you know work on and sort ofdrum down on really is my sort
(05:50):
of process because I sort ofthink I was working this out,
it's sort of a little bitcontradictory, but on one hand,
I want to sort of streamline myprocess so that I'm getting
tracks done quicker, um, thatthey're taking a bit less time,
um, which I think will mean sortof working on things like um
(06:12):
creating more presets, savingmore things within my door to
sort of speed up my process, youknow, um templates and things,
and I'll have to do my 2026template because it will
probably be nothing like my 2025template.
But you know, sort of work onsome things like that in the
background and sample librariesand things.
(06:32):
I always find there's stuff todo like that that if I get it a
bit more honed in, sort of savesme time.
But at the same time, I want totry and not not sort of end up
doing stuff by sort of numbersand like sort of you know, you
don't want to make your tracksless creative by doing that.
(06:54):
So I want to be more creativeand quicker, and I think the two
may be a little hard to sort ofsit against each other because
like you know you need to sortof sort of like find a happy
medium between the two, yeah.
Marc Matthews (07:06):
If you were to like identify one challenge or
friction point at the momentthat stops you from like being
more prolific, what we whatwould you say it is?
Tim Benson (07:18):
Yeah, it's probably our dogs needing a walk.
Um no, uh just as I'm hittingthat brilliant spot, it's like
no, it's three o'clock and Ihave to take you for a walk.
No, um no, I don't know.
Yeah, it's time time is isoften a constraint, sort of not
not um, you know, often timemanagement though, it's funny,
(07:40):
it's like like earlier today,it's like the amount of time I
spent like trying to edit asound, and like sort of, you
know, and then I end up Idecided, you know, you've got a
preset and you start editing it,and and then you end up going
like, do you know what?
I don't like this.
Like I've spent like sort ofyou know three quarters of an
hour editing a sound and now Iprefer the original preset, or
(08:01):
in fact I might just scrap thattrack and go and look for a
different sound entirely.
So yeah, I think it's that sortof thing of knowing when you're
getting bogged down insomething and when you can you
need to stop and come out of it.
But of course that's difficultbecause sometimes it could be
really, really creative.
But yeah, I do sort of find I'msort of losing pockets of time
(08:22):
in certain directions, so it'sstreamlining that in somehow,
you know.
Marc Matthews (08:27):
Yeah, I uh it's interesting you mentioned that
because the the song I released,uh Narcissist, there's uh
there's a lead synth I usingthat uh in the chorus.
And I remember when I waswriting that and uh I came up
with a melody, and I was like, Ijust need a sound to stick in
there, just so I got somethingso I can so I can hear what it's
gonna sound like.
And uh I wasn't like like yousaid there, I I messed around
(08:49):
for a bit and I was like, oh,this will do for now.
And then uh I didn't touch itagain for two or three weeks
because I was working on someother stuff, and I came back to
it, and then I was just like,Yeah, that'll do.
I'll leave that in.
And uh I just roll with it,didn't touch it again.
So it's one of those ones whereI find time often helps.
Uh I find it helps me a lotwhen I'm when I'm getting in my
own head with idea with likesounds in particular, and then
(09:12):
I'll just leave it for longenough that I forget and then
come back, come back to it.
(09:35):
I'm like, yeah, that's fine.
I mean, it might be as a resultof me thinking I just need to
release this and get it out, andthen I just settled for the
sound that is there.
But no, I find that that oftenthat often helps, stepping away,
and I think working on otherpeople's stuff in between really
did help because I could reallydisassociate myself from that
(09:55):
project and then um and thencome back to it.
Tim Benson (09:57):
Yeah, yeah, you can come back and have a fresh.
I mean, I say walking the dogscan be a negative thing, of
course, it can be a reallypositive thing.
If you've been working all day,you go out, have some fresh
air, you come back, you listento something afresh, and you can
go like, oh, actually, youknow, that's working quite well.
I like that all.
You go like, nah, that's Ireally must stop putting lots of
(10:18):
energy into this.
This isn't right, uh, leave it,start a new project or
something.
But yeah, yeah, so I think it'sreally helpful if you've kind
of done the legwork behind, andobviously, I mean, you and I
both sort of do this a lot, soyou you you obviously have got
your sort of um systems inplace, but like um sometimes it
(10:38):
is just really helpful, likegoing.
I mean, it's like a while ago Icreated some battery, because I
use battery, native instrumentsbattery quite a lot for my
drums, and I created sort ofwhole sort of sets in battery of
like a whole kit, for instance,of kick drums, a whole kit
that's just snare drums, a wholekit that's just hi-hats,
(11:02):
whatever, which might sound likean odd idea, but I like to have
them each on individual tracks,not the whole kit on one track.
So I will have my kick drumpattern on one track, so um, I
can EQ it and do what I wantwith it.
Um, but then it's really handyif you've got all the kicks you
like the best in one kit,because then you can just cycle
(11:23):
through them all and go, ah,which kit's working best here?
You know, and you've got them,you can even process them and
stuff in in the plug-in a littlebit and sort of have things
pretty kind of near ready to go.
So that kind of thing can saveyou a lot of time, but of
course, it takes a lot of timeto put into getting those sort
of things um you know in a goodplace.
(11:47):
Um, yeah.
Marc Matthews (11:48):
I used to do uh used to do that.
Admittedly, I haven't done itin a while to be fair, but much
like you, I had I'm in logicwith a sampler instrument, I
would just have uh a library ofkicks, a library of snares, and
uh I would have them.
I think at the time it was likeI had a um a folder just of
like Lindrum samples of uhRoland samples and just all
these different samples, andthen I would and then I'd put
(12:10):
them in on an individual tracklike yourself, so I could I
could tailor make each track,and then in logic, I would just
go into the the piano role andjust go up and down until one
stood out to me, just come upand down these different
samples, and it works reallywell.
Tim Benson (12:26):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Sort of things like that.
And yeah, so I want to sort ofcontinue that a bit more with
synths with other things likeI'm I'm in some ways it's great
not being sort of you know, youyou you don't save, I don't save
every sort of synth pad I comeup with or lead or something and
go, right, I must save this asa lot of the time it's just
(12:47):
saved in the project, it'sthere, and I don't necessarily
save it out into preset foldersand everything else, which is
nice because I'm almost alwayssort of starting from a brank
blank sort of slate andcreating, but it's very time
consuming, you know.
And sometimes it would be greatto at least have a good
starting point and go, I likeall these sounds and these work
(13:08):
well.
Maybe I'm going to edit thissound today and create another
one, or or when I createsomething nice to actually save
it because it might be useful inanother song, and I often
don't, I just go, Oh, that wasnice and move on.
Marc Matthews (13:21):
Yeah, no, I know exactly what you mean.
There's a particular bass patchor preset rather that I use in
serum uh whenever I'm writingnow, and it's just my go-to, and
it just speeds up the processso much.
Um, and that that that's helpedme no end with regards to doing
that.
But I know what you mean.
I know what you mean.
I can't remember the last timeI saved a preset or because I
(13:41):
you I get like a preset and thenI'll tweak it and whatnot, but
I cannot remember the last timeI actually saved one that I that
I made a change to.
Tim Benson (13:48):
Yeah, and you yeah, you've made changes to it and
save it in your own way.
Marc Matthews (13:51):
Yeah, should probably do that to be fair.
Tim Benson (13:53):
Yeah, so I think I need to streamline things.
Marc Matthews (13:56):
Yeah.
Out of interest for theaudience listening, um, you
mentioned there about uh rightback at the beginning, Spotify
numbers.
Uh I obviously I don't want toget too bogged down on on
Spotify numbers, but what didyou start the year at in terms
of listeners, monthly listeners?
Tim Benson (14:13):
Hmm.
I'm trying to remember.
I I don't know.
It was I might have managed tohit 10,000 but before the
beginning of the year, but I'mnot sure if I had.
It was it was either just underthat or sort of around that
kind of figure.
But I I managed to well, Imanaged this year to sort of I
(14:33):
think I went over I nearly sortof 26,000, 27,000 was my sort of
peak um during the year.
So that was a I mean I think mymy my monthly listeners, oh it
must have been more than thatbecause I I seem to remember
looky at Spotify for artistshere, that like um Spotify for
(14:53):
artists um tells you sort of allthese lovely facts, doesn't it?
Which you look at far too manytimes during a day if you're me.
Um and um I think what over thelast 12 months, yeah, my my
listeners went up 132%, and ummy streams went up 164%.
So it was a good year from thestats point of view, you know.
Marc Matthews (15:16):
Yeah, yeah.
You got me looking at doingthis odd air here, looking at
myself uh for the past 12months.
That's amazing, though.
Getting over 26,000.
Did that open up a new featureon Spotify out of interest?
Tim Benson (15:28):
No, I've heard something about uh oh well.
I was like, oh, won't this wantto get something nicer?
Oh no, I didn't see anything.
Marc Matthews (15:36):
I mean I thought or I read something about you
could I don't know, it was likea 30% something or other, which
then meant you and it wouldimprove your discoverability,
but you had to have over 25% 2025, over 25,000.
I've crudely described thatbecause it's only something I
heard about this week on anotherpodcast.
Tim Benson (15:56):
I don't know if algorithmically it has changed
something.
I certainly find that a thingI've learned more than anything
this year from doing that isthat I think people often get
very bogged down in sort of howmany streams they're gonna get
from a playlist or this, that,or the other.
But I think the thing that'sreally important is triggering
the algorithm itself.
(16:18):
And if you trigger thealgorithm and Spotify Radio and
um you know uh Discover Weeklyand all the other algorithmic
playlists, if you get on themand you will only get on them if
if Spotify sees people likingyour song, saving your song,
listening to your song, whichdoes mean getting on other uh
(16:40):
user playlists, that's very,very helpful.
Submit hub and other things,but they've got to see enough
positive stuff.
And if quite quickly after yourelease it, and if they do, then
algorithmically you get pushedout, and if they don't, you
don't get pushed out, and uh itgets buried, you know, pretty
much.
So if you you get it pushedout, you you will see a big
(17:03):
boost in your monthly listeners,um, more than likely.
But it's not actually the boostisn't off one particular
playlist.
I don't go on one playlist andget loads of monthly listeners.
I will get 100 extra monthlylisteners off a playlist or
something, maybe, but likethat's great, but it's really
what happens with the algorithmthat's makes the difference.
Marc Matthews (17:24):
So totally agree, and it's something I
experienced this year, andbecause previously I hadn't
really paid a great deal ofattention to it.
But for example, going throughthe the playlists here in the
last 28 days, you've got likeradio plays, mixes, smart
shuffle, daylist, release radar,your DJ, Discover Weekly,
Blend, all Spotify all Spotifyalgorithmics.
(17:46):
Yeah, and that's the bulk of mystreams.
That's where the bulk of my andthere's there's one playlist
which is like an outlier wherethere's loads.
Um I got that through SubmitHub because I had some money
left over, and I was like, ah,sod it.
I'll no I'll I'll apply to someplaylists.
And I got lucky to get on thisone in particular, but um, but
it I've noticed like this inparticular radio.
(18:07):
If you can start to um get onthat rate on the radio, Spotify
radio, then you can see quitequickly, you can see a hockey
stick curve.
And I've seen that a few timesthroughout this year.
If you can trigger that, thenyou can you can you can quite
quickly grow.
Tim Benson (18:22):
Yeah.
I think that's very key for alot of artists, is like, but
that yes, that does mean gettingon user playlists and whatever,
like and sp and and submit hubis a brilliant place to do that,
I think.
But but again, it's not thatyou've got to look and go, how
many streams am I gonna get fromyour playlist?
That may not be all thatimportant.
(18:44):
I mean, it it I mean it is to adegree, but it's it's it's most
important that like you know,um Spotify sees sort of
listeners listen to your track,play it again, save it, all
these certain things that theyjudge.
Um, but yeah, you you've got toget it out fairly quickly once
you've produced the track,released it, and and get
(19:06):
people's to listen to it overthe next 48 hours, even I think
is quite important.
Marc Matthews (19:12):
Like I think ultimately as well, um you've
got to have something halfdecent, which helps.
Um I think it all that it allboil boils down to that, really,
doesn't it?
You've got to have somethingthat somebody wants to listen
to, um, to say, um, but I thinkthat's where a lot of it stems
(19:32):
from.
You can you can obviously youcan release, release, release,
but if you're releasingsomething that no one wants to
listen to, which I don't know, Ithink like ultimately sweeping
statement, but there's anaudience for your mus for
everybody's music.
So I that might be totallywrong, you know.
I mean, uh I don't know.
What what I'm trying to get atis like if you like it, then
(19:52):
there's gonna be somebody elsethat are out there who's gonna
like it as well.
I think that's where I'm tryingto go with that.
But yeah.
Spotify interesting, yeah.
Yeah, just your just yourfabric or just I'll lose over
and over again.
Tim Benson (20:08):
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, I mean I think I mean itis a I think a lot of a lot of
us find.
I mean, genre, that that wholesort of pigeonholing, and you
know, that that can be very hardfor artists because it can just
be hard if you don't really sitin some sort of genre or
whatever.
It can be hard to find a homefor your music and and uh people
(20:29):
who really like your style ofmusic if you don't really write
music that sort of neatly fitsin something.
But um I I think it's stillpossible, but I think you need
that combination of sort of goodmusic, determination, um, and
uh good promo promotion,artwork, all those things.
But you've yeah, you do need tofind some, you know, there will
(20:52):
be, as you say, somewhere therewill be a niche of people that
like what you do, yeah.
And you and you need to sort offit in and find that you know
what do they say?
Marc Matthews (21:01):
You've got to find your tribe, I believe that
is.
I might have coined that fromsomeone, and it could be Damien
Keyes.
I might have finded that fromright, yeah.
Could well have coined thatfrom him.
Tim Benson (21:13):
Yeah, he used to rehearse in my studio.
I know Damien.
Marc Matthews (21:16):
Yes, I remember this story, yeah.
Yeah, indeed.
Yeah, um he's a wise man, yeah.
Lots of interesting stuff.
Uh so thank you, Tib, forsharing that.
I I think that's one that I umI'm always looking to do as
well, in particular, processesand systems and just improving
and and doubling down on whatworks, I find.
(21:39):
But one that what my moving onto mine, and this is something I
I probably I did start thisyear working on, and this was
more collaborations.
Now I've worked uh I'vecollaborated with Indigo twice
this year, so with vocals on ona couple tracks, which has
worked really well.
But um, it's something that Iwant to work on more in 2026, so
(22:00):
less working in in a in a siloby myself releasing tunes, but
actually getting other peopleinvolved as well.
Uh, notably what I'm gonna tryand do in particular is reach
out to the local area.
So I'm based in Devon in the UKin the southwest.
So see if I can reach out andstart making connections with
some local artists, notablysingers is is the one um that I
(22:25):
want because I love havingvocals on my tracks.
I really do.
I mean, I like I like doinginstrumentals, but I find for me
I find the most enjoyment whenI hear a vocal bring a track to
life, basically.
That's that's what really winsfor me.
So that's what I want to domore of in 2026.
And there's obviously there'sthe it's gonna broaden my uh
(22:46):
creativity in terms of music,but also reach as well.
So reaching a new audience.
So as we all know,collaborating with someone is
then gonna in by its nature isgonna expose you to their
audience as well.
So I do that with the podcast,for example.
So I'm looking to do that morein 2026.
I've set myself with a goal ofthree, so three new, totally new
(23:08):
collaborations, people Ihaven't worked with before.
So we've we've collabed on atrack, um Lost and Found, um,
which still chugs along nicely.
Um PRS, thank you very much.
We got £1.50, I think, thisyear from that, which was nice.
Um so yeah, yeah.
Got 17 pounds in total, butthere we go.
Tim Benson (23:31):
Yes, yeah, you talked about it.
All adds up, all adds up.
I got £12.50.
Did you?
Yeah.
Marc Matthews (23:38):
Uh when you see it all come in from different
angles, PRS, PPL, I think I gotabout a penny.
Tim Benson (23:44):
Um my publishing song trust has actually just
gone past because unlike you,you've signed up with Centric,
haven't you?
I think.
Yeah.
And so the the plus point ofCentric being that you don't
have to pay anything up front,you sign up and they take a
little bit more, don't they, inthe background.
But like it, to be honest, uh,it makes a lot of sense doing it
(24:07):
that way.
Um, but I signed up with SongTrust and I've I've made $108,
which means I've actually paidback my £100 that I had to pay
$100 that I had to pay in thefirst place.
So yeah, yeah.
I'm sort of um I'm actuallygoing to start making some money
from it eventually.
Marc Matthews (24:25):
I uh I haven't had anything from Centric yet,
so I'm waiting for that tomaterialise.
But much it's I I'd no doubt, Ihave no doubt.
It takes them forever just toregister one of my songs and
like have it that takes bloodylong enough.
But like much like yourself,this year I finally paid back
the the £50 um that I paid PRSover 10 years ago when I was a
(24:50):
student to join.
So I'm now making money fromPRS, which is quite nice.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Hopefully that continues.
Tim Benson (25:00):
Always say to people, I think it's you know it
is a bit of a pain to set allthose things up, but it's it's
worth it in the end, althoughthat may be quite some way in
the distance.
But once you've set it up, it'salso it's relatively easy to
use them.
I mean, once you've got uhpublishing admin and PRS, for
(25:20):
instance, you know, set up, youjust go in and add your next
track on your publishing thing,very simple process normally,
and and that's it.
They do the rest with PRS andeverything else, and you don't
have to do all of that, so itcan it all works out in the end,
I think.
Marc Matthews (25:37):
Um yeah, so that that's one thing I realized this
year with Centric, it makes ita lot easier.
Because previously, when I wasjust doing it on my own and um I
hadn't registered with before Iregistered with Centric, and I
had to do do it on PRS myself,but it just takes a bit of time,
got away, it's a bit of a painin the arse.
But and then when you get thatIS was it WC code, then I have
to go back and then make surelike with BBC Introducing, I
(25:58):
have to put it in there to makeand I mean that page that takes
about a year to get any moneyfrom that um from from being
from being played on the BBC.
It's the turnaround, theturnaround of it is is quite
long.
It is quite they like playingyour stuff though, they don't
like I am five for five thisyear with BBC Introducing.
I know it's impressive, itreally is in the Southwest, so
(26:20):
not the biggie yet.
Uh it's been listened to by theum main radio, like the dance
basically.
Um I think rock the the rockand metal show, the metal show
listened to it or the rock show.
And I was like, I'm notentirely sure why it was
attributed to them, but thanksfor listening either way.
(26:41):
Um but I don't I don't thinkthey were gonna play it and they
didn't, but there we go.
But that I mean that's onething I need to work on.
I I had an episode on this wayback, way, way back when, about
my reaching out to radiostations, and I am so shit at
doing it.
And like I will upload the BBCRay uh BBC Introducing, and I've
(27:01):
got a list of radio stations,about 30 or 40 radio stations in
the database.
Um audience listening, if youwant that, ping me an email,
send me a message, happy tohappy to share it with you.
Uh, but I still, I still, it'sone of those things that I just
procrastinate and never end updoing, much to my detriment, I
think.
Tim Benson (27:19):
It's good that you've done the BBC Introducing
though, because that'sdefinitely good.
It's something I forget to dowith um, but although I do think
it you're far more likely toget somewhere with it with um
vocal tracks.
I do think they're notparticularly interested in
instrumentals, which isunderstandable, but it's not
(27:39):
really what most people listento on the yeah, and I find
length as well uh makes adifference.
Marc Matthews (27:45):
Like I think the songs I put on there just under
three minutes uh until aboutthree minute twenty, three
minutes thirty, something likethat.
Certainly makes a difference.
Um, not that I shoot for that,it just so happens that's the
length of the track, but thatthat does make a difference.
Um but that's why I think goingback to my collaboration point
as well.
I think it'd be nice tocollaborate with others in the
(28:07):
UK to then submit songs in theirparticular region, which would
be quite cool.
Um but yeah, audiencelistening, if you if you're a
vocalist and uh you uh sort ofdon't have to necessarily
specialise in like EDM or danceor anything like that, but if
you're a vocalist and you'relooking to get on a track or
two, ping, send me a message,get in touch, because I'm gonna
(28:29):
look for extending my network,building my network out in 2026.
So that for me is the big one.
I suppose another one, if I ifI was to add another one, I'm
going off on a tangent here aswell.
It's touching on what wementioned there about royalty
with like PRS, PPL, publishing.
Obviously, you've got distrokit as well.
But obviously, my I seeobviously, like everybody knows.
(28:50):
Um, so I retract thatstatement, but my YouTube
channel is now monetized aswell, so that's also bringing in
uh money.
Very, I mean, it comes in like70p to two pounds a day, but
it's another sort of incomestream to add, yeah, to add to
the streaming.
This is from music from thepodcast.
And in 2026, I want to uh Ithink another goal of mine would
(29:14):
be to see that to see to kickon and and grow that both with
streaming music, music streamingrather, and also the the
YouTube monetization as well.
So I think those are targetsfor me in 2026.
Um cadence-wise, I'm quitehappy with what the I think I
put out five songs this year.
I think that's worked quitewell.
Maybe I'll shoot for six nextyear.
Tim Benson (29:35):
Yeah, I I sort of was doing quite well on getting
one song out every month, prettymuch, and then this month is
looking very unlikely unless Imanage to somehow get something
out by Friday.
Which is not entirelyimpossible, but let's face it,
it's unlikely to even get onrelease radar at this current
(29:57):
moment.
So um, yeah, it's yeah, I I'vejust ended up not able to do
anything the last couple ofweeks, but um was really
annoying.
But yeah, I got out thingsmost, you know, kept kept busy.
So yeah, I think that that hasa big effect as well.
Like you really want to beputting something out every six
weeks, and it's like I saw wheremy monthly listeners were like
(30:18):
at the end of my last release,sort of about a month later or
whatever.
And then they I I now justwatched them tail off because
you know, because if you don'trelease anything and you don't
keep that momentum going, Imean, yes, you can get it back,
but like it's it is very much ifyou want to build it, you want
to keep releasing obviously goodmaterial.
(30:39):
I don't think you want to justput out something.
That's um for that's the otherthing, isn't it?
It's like making thingsquicker, but like I'm I'm
thinking of actually doing a bitof diversification as well,
sort of this year.
If I can I've I say it everyyear is sort of I I feel like
I've got lots of musical avenuesthat I enjoy working in, and
(31:00):
it's not just um my Iron Ironproject, although that is my my
baby really.
Um I sort of um have lots ofsort of back catalogue and all
sorts of stuff that I've neverput out, and I just sort of I've
I've got that, I've got um thetop tier now on DistroKid where
I've got lots of ArcSIS profilesI can use.
(31:23):
And you know, I just thought,right, do it.
Like put out lots of thesedifferent things, and you know,
just even if it's just my backcatalogue, just release all
these things that are justhanging around, and um, you
know, some of them sort of bandthings from different bands I've
done, some of them are likesolo projects, um,
singer-songwriter stuff, somewith other people, and it's just
(31:45):
like you know, I really don'twant to just sit on music that I
do nothing with.
Um, plus, if I get those thingsout there, I might start
writing something and go, oh,I'll put that out on this
artist, or you know, feed feedthe different things I have, but
it's hard to get them up andrunning, really.
Marc Matthews (32:06):
Yeah, I I know exactly what you mean.
There are times when I'mworking on stuff and I'm
thinking I'd like to put a nameto this and release it under a
different moniker, uh, and anddo that myself.
Um, and just because I seeother artists doing it, other
sort of uh tiered artists, a bituh maybe a few tiers ahead of
as it were.
And I'm thinking it worksreally well.
(32:27):
Just having a okay, I've gotthis particular sound, I can
release it under that name, I'vegot this sound, I can release
it under that name, rather thanjust having a name and then
releasing a whole hodgepodge ofdifferent different genres,
which which was kind of what Iwas doing, but I've sort of
reined that in a bit now, and Iknow kind of like I know the the
direction that my music'sheading.
I think that does help as wellwith regards to the audience,
(32:49):
because I can see that in myhead, I'm guessing that the
algorithm is figuring okay,well, this artist is releasing
this style of music, this is theaudience, so we'll push it out
to that audience.
And that that in my head,that's what would make sense,
whether or not that's the way itworks.
Tim Benson (33:04):
I I think that's very true.
I think like you know, if if itsort of works out, I mean it of
course, on your appears on andlike, you know, what on what
someone it's the kind of thingsthat in the say you go into
certain playlists and otherartists are played in that
playlist next to you, it's thatwhole sort of thing of like
(33:26):
Spotify's trying to kind of makea pattern that makes sense,
isn't it?
Of like where you sit next toother artists, and if you kind
of just release totallydifferent things and end up in
totally different playlists withsome one week you're a produce
a brilliant house track, thenext week you produce a metal
track.
The trouble is you areconfounding the algorithm making
(33:47):
sense of that.
It is just like finding itreally hard to you know, always
in a metal playlist, always in ayou know, melodic house.
It doesn't make sense to thealgorithm, and and then you end
up sort of falling between allof these stools, I think.
So yeah, don't do that, is mymy theory.
Um, I mean, I suppose you couldbe renowned for doing uh doing
(34:10):
some a sort of style that isimpossible to you know uh
pigeonhole, but like you know,yeah, I think I think you're
right.
Marc Matthews (34:18):
I think you're right.
And uh I think it's one of thereasons why I've noticed my
listeners have have increasedthis.
My target was to get to 10,000by the end of the year, and I
think I'll hit that because I'vegot my Ace in the Pack, which
is my uh my Christmas song,which will dust off the cobwebs
and hit the algorithm, andpeople will start listening to
that again probably early nextmonth into December, and that'll
(34:42):
give me a nice little boost.
So you can always rely on thataround Christmas time, yeah.
So that's all we do.
Tim Benson (34:47):
I haven't done a Christmas song last year.
I don't know if I will thisyear either.
I have two already.
Yeah, do you have two?
I know we I have Christmaseighty-four, yeah.
Marc Matthews (34:57):
Which was the I remember that one.
And what was the other one?
Tim Benson (35:00):
The truce.
Marc Matthews (35:01):
Oh, yes, yes, yes.
Tim Benson (35:03):
Which is sort of based off of Christmas '84.
It's kind of the same track,but sort of different.
Marc Matthews (35:10):
Yeah.
I uh at the beginning of theyear I said to my other half, I
was like, Oh what?
I'm gonna do a Christmas songthis year, I'm gonna cover one,
what shall I do?
And uh, and then the year gotaway from me, and then uh it's
not gonna, I don't think it'sgonna happen now.
I don't think it will.
I think I'll need the I needthe motivation and the
enthusiasm to do it, and I don'tas much as I love Christmas, I
don't think I've got it now.
But I'll let um Christmas babyplease come home, I'll dust that
(35:33):
off, and then uh that willstart start hitting people's
ears again.
Um which was which was quitefun.
I think I turned that around inabout two weeks if I remember
rightly.
I think I do that quite fast.
It's got um sleepless nights onguitar.
Yeah, I enjoyed that.
Um folks, we've discussed longenough now and gone on tangents
(35:55):
as we do with these episodes.
So my target for you, or rathermy prompt for you, uh, if
you've been working solo allyear, who's one person you would
could one person you couldcollab with in 2026?
So thinking about who you couldcollab with next year, um, or
maybe just in general, what areyou gonna look to do or improve
on next year?
So you can send me a message inthe episode description and uh
(36:19):
I'll look to share it on a on afuture episode, probably episode
227 to be honest.
So if you're gonna be collabingwith anyone, or you could
collab with anyone, anyone atall, anyone at all, alive or
unfortunately no longer with us.
Um, who could you I say that,but with AI now, so you could
probably collab with anyone tobe honest.
Um yeah, yeah.
(36:40):
Um I'm trying to think, did heever do?
I don't think he did.
I don't think Ozzy ever did.
I know he released changes.
Did he release changes with awith Kelly Osborne around
Christmas once?
Possibly, can't remember, butthat would be quite cool.
So there you go, folks.
Uh send me a message.
What are you gonna look onimproving next year?
And also if you could collabwith anyone, who could or who
would you collab with?
(37:01):
Um, Tim, it's been a pleasure.
Thank you very much for uhchatting today.
Yeah, I appreciate that you uhyou've been under the weather,
so um sticking around and doingthis is uh I do do thank you for
this.
And um that's fine.
I haven't had any majorcoughing fits, which is good.
No, no, no, no, that's uh to befair, post you can always get
(37:23):
rid of those, or you can leaveit in like we did with the
seagulls usually, but and nowbecause it is is uh approaching
winter, the seagulls are lessapparent.
Yeah, no, they're they'rethey're all hiding, I think.
Yeah, yeah.
Um, folks, before we wrapthings up, if uh if you have
enjoyed this episode, uh doconsider joining as a member on
YouTube for the less than theprice of a coffee per month.
(37:46):
And uh I do love coffee, so um,that would be hard push for me.
Yeah, you get access to uhvideos or episodes early before
anyone else.
You get priority replied tocomments, and you get a badge as
well.
Everybody, if you love a badge,not a physical badge, but you
get a badge as well next to yourname.
So please uh do considersupporting the podcast in that
way.
And if you've enjoyed thisepisode, check out episode 175,
(38:10):
which Tim and I did, I think itdropped on New Year's Day last
year, which has turned out tobe, I think, the most popular
episode of the year, or one ofamazing.
Yeah, episode 175, which isWhat's the Secret to Mixing
Without Muddiness?
Achieving clarity and dynamicsin a mix.
It sounds perfect, doesn't it?
The perfect pairing.
(38:30):
I've got in my notes here theperfect pairing with today's
theme.
It's not really because wehaven't spoken anything of
muddiness or achieving clarity.
Um, but Tim's there, so thereis a tenuous link.
Uh, folks, uh big thank you forthis.
Um I don't know.
Thank you, thank you, thankingfolks.
I've got fun at a tangent here.
Um until next time, keepcreating, keep mixing, and I
(38:53):
will see you in the next one.
I think people often get very bogged down in sort of
how many streams they're goingto get from a playlist or this,
that, or the other.
But I think the thing that'sreally important is triggering
the algorithm itself.
And if you trigger thealgorithm and Spotify Radio and
um, you know, uh Discover Weeklyand all the other algorithmic
playlists, if you get on themand you will only get on them if
(00:47):
Spotify sees people liking yoursong, saving your song,
listening to your song, whichdoes mean getting on other user
playlists.
That's very, very helpful.
Marc Matthews (00:58):
You're listening to the Inside the Mix podcast
with your host, Mark Matthews.
Welcome to Inside the Mix, yourgo-to podcast for music
creation and production.
Whether you're crafting yourfirst track or refining your
mixing skills, join me each weekfor expert interviews,
practical tutorials, andinsights to help you level up
(01:19):
your music and smash it in themusic industry.
Let's dive in.
Hey folks, welcome to Insidethe Mix.
Welcome back if you are areturning listener and if you're
a new listener or viewer, ifyou're watching this on YouTube,
a big welcome again.
In this episode, uh for thefinal time in 2025, I am joined
by my uh good friend and co-hostum from the county adjoining
(01:43):
Devon, uh Tim Benson, aka Isle9.
Tim, how are you?
How's how are things?
Tim Benson (01:50):
I'm alright.
I'm uh a little bit post uhpost-dose of the lovely COVID,
but I'm alright, yeah.
Marc Matthews (01:58):
Yeah, I think we were discussing this off air,
weren't we, about COVID?
It's where it's it's a weirdone, it goes all quiet, and then
suddenly you somebody you knowgets COVID and then you remember
it's a thing.
Yeah, exactly.
Tim Benson (02:08):
Yeah, we all forget it and then suddenly yeah, yeah.
I didn't the other week, andyou know, couple couple of weeks
actually, it's taken me to justsort of begin to feel a bit
more normal again.
Marc Matthews (02:19):
Yeah, it does knock you off your feet.
I mean, yeah, I'm quite lucky.
Three touch words, it's beenabout three years since I've had
it, to be fair.
So good, and I'll make thatcontinue, especially uh uh spoil
spoiler alert here for anyonewho does care.
Um, at the point recording thisis the 27th of October.
I'm getting married on the 31ston Halloween.
Yeah, so um yeah, fingerscrossed, I don't get it before
(02:41):
then.
Uh no, because yeah, my otherhalf, she would not be happy.
No, there'd be no sympathy forme.
Yeah, you'd like to do that.
Tim Benson (02:48):
You just have to not see anybody between now and
then, yeah.
Marc Matthews (02:51):
Which is quite quite quite good the way I the
way I work.
So generally, that uh that'spretty much what happens.
Don't really sit there.
Everything's done virtually, soit works out quite well.
Um this episode, folks, is uh Isaid in my notes there, I've
got we're wrapping up the yearwith a reflective episode.
Now, I appreciate the time thisepisode goes live, which is
(03:11):
going to be around mid-November,it's not really the end of the
year, but as we approach the endof the year, um I'm gonna be
doing more sort of episodeswhere I'm gonna be hosting other
podcasts that I listen to.
So um exchanging RSS feeds andjust letting you in on some of
the podcasts I listen to, andthey've kindly allowed me to um
share their content on Insidethe Mix and uh a couple of other
(03:33):
episode formats as well.
So this is gonna be really thelast opportunity that I get to
uh chat with Tim, for example,about what we're gonna be doing
differently in 2026 with regardsto our sort of creative path.
But I touched on their uh lastepisodes, folks.
Before we dive into that, I amactually building up uh the well
(03:54):
rather curating ideas forInside the Mix in 2026.
And there is a link in theepisode description.
Do click on that link becauseI'd love your feedback, your
input on what you enjoy aboutthe podcast, and maybe also or
rather, also what you would liketo hear or see from the podcast
in 2026, or maybe a format thatyou're not a particular fan of
(04:15):
that you'd like to see less of.
So always reflective.
So please do click on thatlink, and you can also share
your win of 2025 and get itfeatured on episode 227, which
is going to air on December the30th.
So in that episode, I'll besharing your win.
So please do click on thatlink.
Let me know what's going wellwith the podcast, maybe what
could be improved in 2026, andalso your win.
(04:35):
And you've got until Novemberthe 29th to do that if memory
serves.
So that's my call to action outthe way.
So yeah, in this episode, we'rereally looking at what um we're
gonna be doing differently in2026.
So I think as I do with allthese ones, I've I've wittered
(04:56):
on for a bit now.
So maybe I'll throw themicrophone over to you, Tim.
So thoughts and reflections,maybe what you'll do differently
in, or maybe develop.
Different might be the wrongword.
Progress.
Tim Benson (05:07):
Yes, well, uh I've sort of, you know, it feels a
little bit early in the year,doesn't it?
To be having like um, you know,sort of uh sort of new ideas
for 2026.
But um I feel like I have tohave that after I've eaten
Christmas pudding.
But like um I I I'm sort of Ifeel like I mean I've had a I've
(05:28):
had a really good year with mymusic actually.
It's done uh, you know, well,and I've uh I've had sort of a
further reach and more streamsand things than I have before
monthly listeners and stuff, sothat's been good.
I think though, um I sort ofone thing I I want to dumb sort
of you know work on and sort ofdrum down on really is my sort
(05:50):
of process because I sort ofthink I was working this out,
it's sort of a little bitcontradictory, but on one hand,
I want to sort of streamline myprocess so that I'm getting
tracks done quicker, um, thatthey're taking a bit less time,
um, which I think will mean sortof working on things like um
(06:12):
creating more presets, savingmore things within my door to
sort of speed up my process, youknow, um templates and things,
and I'll have to do my 2026template because it will
probably be nothing like my 2025template.
But you know, sort of work onsome things like that in the
background and sample librariesand things.
(06:32):
I always find there's stuff todo like that that if I get it a
bit more honed in, sort of savesme time.
But at the same time, I want totry and not not sort of end up
doing stuff by sort of numbersand like sort of you know, you
don't want to make your tracksless creative by doing that.
(06:54):
So I want to be more creativeand quicker, and I think the two
may be a little hard to sort ofsit against each other because
like you know you need to sortof sort of like find a happy
medium between the two, yeah.
Marc Matthews (07:06):
If you were to like identify one challenge or
friction point at the momentthat stops you from like being
more prolific, what we whatwould you say it is?
Tim Benson (07:18):
Yeah, it's probably our dogs needing a walk.
Um no, uh just as I'm hittingthat brilliant spot, it's like
no, it's three o'clock and Ihave to take you for a walk.
No, um no, I don't know.
Yeah, it's time time is isoften a constraint, sort of not
not um, you know, often timemanagement though, it's funny,
(07:40):
it's like like earlier today,it's like the amount of time I
spent like trying to edit asound, and like sort of, you
know, and then I end up Idecided, you know, you've got a
preset and you start editing it,and and then you end up going
like, do you know what?
I don't like this.
Like I've spent like sort ofyou know three quarters of an
hour editing a sound and now Iprefer the original preset, or
(08:01):
in fact I might just scrap thattrack and go and look for a
different sound entirely.
So yeah, I think it's that sortof thing of knowing when you're
getting bogged down insomething and when you can you
need to stop and come out of it.
But of course that's difficultbecause sometimes it could be
really, really creative.
But yeah, I do sort of find I'msort of losing pockets of time
(08:22):
in certain directions, so it'sstreamlining that in somehow,
you know.
Marc Matthews (08:27):
Yeah, I uh it's interesting you mentioned that
because the the song I released,uh Narcissist, there's uh
there's a lead synth I usingthat uh in the chorus.
And I remember when I waswriting that and uh I came up
with a melody, and I was like, Ijust need a sound to stick in
there, just so I got somethingso I can so I can hear what it's
gonna sound like.
And uh I wasn't like like yousaid there, I I messed around
(08:49):
for a bit and I was like, oh,this will do for now.
And then uh I didn't touch itagain for two or three weeks
because I was working on someother stuff, and I came back to
it, and then I was just like,Yeah, that'll do.
I'll leave that in.
And uh I just roll with it,didn't touch it again.
So it's one of those ones whereI find time often helps.
Uh I find it helps me a lotwhen I'm when I'm getting in my
own head with idea with likesounds in particular, and then
(09:12):
I'll just leave it for longenough that I forget and then
come back, come back to it.
(09:35):
I'm like, yeah, that's fine.
I mean, it might be as a resultof me thinking I just need to
release this and get it out, andthen I just settled for the
sound that is there.
But no, I find that that oftenthat often helps, stepping away,
and I think working on otherpeople's stuff in between really
did help because I could reallydisassociate myself from that
(09:55):
project and then um and thencome back to it.
Tim Benson (09:57):
Yeah, yeah, you can come back and have a fresh.
I mean, I say walking the dogscan be a negative thing, of
course, it can be a reallypositive thing.
If you've been working all day,you go out, have some fresh
air, you come back, you listento something afresh, and you can
go like, oh, actually, youknow, that's working quite well.
I like that all.
You go like, nah, that's Ireally must stop putting lots of
(10:18):
energy into this.
This isn't right, uh, leave it,start a new project or
something.
But yeah, yeah, so I think it'sreally helpful if you've kind
of done the legwork behind, andobviously, I mean, you and I
both sort of do this a lot, soyou you you obviously have got
your sort of um systems inplace, but like um sometimes it
(10:38):
is just really helpful, likegoing.
I mean, it's like a while ago Icreated some battery, because I
use battery, native instrumentsbattery quite a lot for my
drums, and I created sort ofwhole sort of sets in battery of
like a whole kit, for instance,of kick drums, a whole kit
that's just snare drums, a wholekit that's just hi-hats,
(11:02):
whatever, which might sound likean odd idea, but I like to have
them each on individual tracks,not the whole kit on one track.
So I will have my kick drumpattern on one track, so um, I
can EQ it and do what I wantwith it.
Um, but then it's really handyif you've got all the kicks you
like the best in one kit,because then you can just cycle
(11:23):
through them all and go, ah,which kit's working best here?
You know, and you've got them,you can even process them and
stuff in in the plug-in a littlebit and sort of have things
pretty kind of near ready to go.
So that kind of thing can saveyou a lot of time, but of
course, it takes a lot of timeto put into getting those sort
of things um you know in a goodplace.
(11:47):
Um, yeah.
Marc Matthews (11:48):
I used to do uh used to do that.
Admittedly, I haven't done itin a while to be fair, but much
like you, I had I'm in logicwith a sampler instrument, I
would just have uh a library ofkicks, a library of snares, and
uh I would have them.
I think at the time it was likeI had a um a folder just of
like Lindrum samples of uhRoland samples and just all
these different samples, andthen I would and then I'd put
(12:10):
them in on an individual tracklike yourself, so I could I
could tailor make each track,and then in logic, I would just
go into the the piano role andjust go up and down until one
stood out to me, just come upand down these different
samples, and it works reallywell.
Tim Benson (12:26):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Sort of things like that.
And yeah, so I want to sort ofcontinue that a bit more with
synths with other things likeI'm I'm in some ways it's great
not being sort of you know, youyou you don't save, I don't save
every sort of synth pad I comeup with or lead or something and
go, right, I must save this asa lot of the time it's just
(12:47):
saved in the project, it'sthere, and I don't necessarily
save it out into preset foldersand everything else, which is
nice because I'm almost alwayssort of starting from a brank
blank sort of slate andcreating, but it's very time
consuming, you know.
And sometimes it would be greatto at least have a good
starting point and go, I likeall these sounds and these work
(13:08):
well.
Maybe I'm going to edit thissound today and create another
one, or or when I createsomething nice to actually save
it because it might be useful inanother song, and I often
don't, I just go, Oh, that wasnice and move on.
Marc Matthews (13:21):
Yeah, no, I know exactly what you mean.
There's a particular bass patchor preset rather that I use in
serum uh whenever I'm writingnow, and it's just my go-to, and
it just speeds up the processso much.
Um, and that that that's helpedme no end with regards to doing
that.
But I know what you mean.
I know what you mean.
I can't remember the last timeI saved a preset or because I
(13:41):
you I get like a preset and thenI'll tweak it and whatnot, but
I cannot remember the last timeI actually saved one that I that
I made a change to.
Tim Benson (13:48):
Yeah, and you yeah, you've made changes to it and
save it in your own way.
Marc Matthews (13:51):
Yeah, should probably do that to be fair.
Tim Benson (13:53):
Yeah, so I think I need to streamline things.
Marc Matthews (13:56):
Yeah.
Out of interest for theaudience listening, um, you
mentioned there about uh rightback at the beginning, Spotify
numbers.
Uh I obviously I don't want toget too bogged down on on
Spotify numbers, but what didyou start the year at in terms
of listeners, monthly listeners?
Tim Benson (14:13):
Hmm.
I'm trying to remember.
I I don't know.
It was I might have managed tohit 10,000 but before the
beginning of the year, but I'mnot sure if I had.
It was it was either just underthat or sort of around that
kind of figure.
But I I managed to well, Imanaged this year to sort of I
(14:33):
think I went over I nearly sortof 26,000, 27,000 was my sort of
peak um during the year.
So that was a I mean I think mymy my monthly listeners, oh it
must have been more than thatbecause I I seem to remember
looky at Spotify for artistshere, that like um Spotify for
(14:53):
artists um tells you sort of allthese lovely facts, doesn't it?
Which you look at far too manytimes during a day if you're me.
Um and um I think what over thelast 12 months, yeah, my my
listeners went up 132%, and ummy streams went up 164%.
So it was a good year from thestats point of view, you know.
Marc Matthews (15:16):
Yeah, yeah.
You got me looking at doingthis odd air here, looking at
myself uh for the past 12months.
That's amazing, though.
Getting over 26,000.
Did that open up a new featureon Spotify out of interest?
Tim Benson (15:28):
No, I've heard something about uh oh well.
I was like, oh, won't this wantto get something nicer?
Oh no, I didn't see anything.
Marc Matthews (15:36):
I mean I thought or I read something about you
could I don't know, it was likea 30% something or other, which
then meant you and it wouldimprove your discoverability,
but you had to have over 25% 2025, over 25,000.
I've crudely described thatbecause it's only something I
heard about this week on anotherpodcast.
Tim Benson (15:56):
I don't know if algorithmically it has changed
something.
I certainly find that a thingI've learned more than anything
this year from doing that isthat I think people often get
very bogged down in sort of howmany streams they're gonna get
from a playlist or this, that,or the other.
But I think the thing that'sreally important is triggering
the algorithm itself.
(16:18):
And if you trigger thealgorithm and Spotify Radio and
um you know uh Discover Weeklyand all the other algorithmic
playlists, if you get on themand you will only get on them if
if Spotify sees people likingyour song, saving your song,
listening to your song, whichdoes mean getting on other uh
(16:40):
user playlists, that's very,very helpful.
Submit hub and other things,but they've got to see enough
positive stuff.
And if quite quickly after yourelease it, and if they do, then
algorithmically you get pushedout, and if they don't, you
don't get pushed out, and uh itgets buried, you know, pretty
much.
So if you you get it pushedout, you you will see a big
(17:03):
boost in your monthly listeners,um, more than likely.
But it's not actually the boostisn't off one particular
playlist.
I don't go on one playlist andget loads of monthly listeners.
I will get 100 extra monthlylisteners off a playlist or
something, maybe, but likethat's great, but it's really
what happens with the algorithmthat's makes the difference.
Marc Matthews (17:24):
So totally agree, and it's something I
experienced this year, andbecause previously I hadn't
really paid a great deal ofattention to it.
But for example, going throughthe the playlists here in the
last 28 days, you've got likeradio plays, mixes, smart
shuffle, daylist, release radar,your DJ, Discover Weekly,
Blend, all Spotify all Spotifyalgorithmics.
(17:46):
Yeah, and that's the bulk of mystreams.
That's where the bulk of my andthere's there's one playlist
which is like an outlier wherethere's loads.
Um I got that through SubmitHub because I had some money
left over, and I was like, ah,sod it.
I'll no I'll I'll apply to someplaylists.
And I got lucky to get on thisone in particular, but um, but
it I've noticed like this inparticular radio.
(18:07):
If you can start to um get onthat rate on the radio, Spotify
radio, then you can see quitequickly, you can see a hockey
stick curve.
And I've seen that a few timesthroughout this year.
If you can trigger that, thenyou can you can you can quite
quickly grow.
Tim Benson (18:22):
Yeah.
I think that's very key for alot of artists, is like, but
that yes, that does mean gettingon user playlists and whatever,
like and sp and and submit hubis a brilliant place to do that,
I think.
But but again, it's not thatyou've got to look and go, how
many streams am I gonna get fromyour playlist?
That may not be all thatimportant.
(18:44):
I mean, it it I mean it is to adegree, but it's it's it's most
important that like you know,um Spotify sees sort of
listeners listen to your track,play it again, save it, all
these certain things that theyjudge.
Um, but yeah, you you've got toget it out fairly quickly once
you've produced the track,released it, and and get
(19:06):
people's to listen to it overthe next 48 hours, even I think
is quite important.
Marc Matthews (19:12):
Like I think ultimately as well, um you've
got to have something halfdecent, which helps.
Um I think it all that it allboil boils down to that, really,
doesn't it?
You've got to have somethingthat somebody wants to listen
to, um, to say, um, but I thinkthat's where a lot of it stems
(19:32):
from.
You can you can obviously youcan release, release, release,
but if you're releasingsomething that no one wants to
listen to, which I don't know, Ithink like ultimately sweeping
statement, but there's anaudience for your mus for
everybody's music.
So I that might be totallywrong, you know.
I mean, uh I don't know.
What what I'm trying to get atis like if you like it, then
(19:52):
there's gonna be somebody elsethat are out there who's gonna
like it as well.
I think that's where I'm tryingto go with that.
But yeah.
Spotify interesting, yeah.
Yeah, just your just yourfabric or just I'll lose over
and over again.
Tim Benson (20:08):
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, I mean I think I mean itis a I think a lot of a lot of
us find.
I mean, genre, that that wholesort of pigeonholing, and you
know, that that can be very hardfor artists because it can just
be hard if you don't really sitin some sort of genre or
whatever.
It can be hard to find a homefor your music and and uh people
(20:29):
who really like your style ofmusic if you don't really write
music that sort of neatly fitsin something.
But um I I think it's stillpossible, but I think you need
that combination of sort of goodmusic, determination, um, and
uh good promo promotion,artwork, all those things.
But you've yeah, you do need tofind some, you know, there will
(20:52):
be, as you say, somewhere therewill be a niche of people that
like what you do, yeah.
And you and you need to sort offit in and find that you know
what do they say?
Marc Matthews (21:01):
You've got to find your tribe, I believe that
is.
I might have coined that fromsomeone, and it could be Damien
Keyes.
I might have finded that fromright, yeah.
Could well have coined thatfrom him.
Tim Benson (21:13):
Yeah, he used to rehearse in my studio.
I know Damien.
Marc Matthews (21:16):
Yes, I remember this story, yeah.
Yeah, indeed.
Yeah, um he's a wise man, yeah.
Lots of interesting stuff.
Uh so thank you, Tib, forsharing that.
I I think that's one that I umI'm always looking to do as
well, in particular, processesand systems and just improving
and and doubling down on whatworks, I find.
(21:39):
But one that what my moving onto mine, and this is something I
I probably I did start thisyear working on, and this was
more collaborations.
Now I've worked uh I'vecollaborated with Indigo twice
this year, so with vocals on ona couple tracks, which has
worked really well.
But um, it's something that Iwant to work on more in 2026, so
(22:00):
less working in in a in a siloby myself releasing tunes, but
actually getting other peopleinvolved as well.
Uh, notably what I'm gonna tryand do in particular is reach
out to the local area.
So I'm based in Devon in the UKin the southwest.
So see if I can reach out andstart making connections with
some local artists, notablysingers is is the one um that I
(22:25):
want because I love havingvocals on my tracks.
I really do.
I mean, I like I like doinginstrumentals, but I find for me
I find the most enjoyment whenI hear a vocal bring a track to
life, basically.
That's that's what really winsfor me.
So that's what I want to domore of in 2026.
And there's obviously there'sthe it's gonna broaden my uh
(22:46):
creativity in terms of music,but also reach as well.
So reaching a new audience.
So as we all know,collaborating with someone is
then gonna in by its nature isgonna expose you to their
audience as well.
So I do that with the podcast,for example.
So I'm looking to do that morein 2026.
I've set myself with a goal ofthree, so three new, totally new
(23:08):
collaborations, people Ihaven't worked with before.
So we've we've collabed on atrack, um Lost and Found, um,
which still chugs along nicely.
Um PRS, thank you very much.
We got £1.50, I think, thisyear from that, which was nice.
Um so yeah, yeah.
Got 17 pounds in total, butthere we go.
Tim Benson (23:31):
Yes, yeah, you talked about it.
All adds up, all adds up.
I got £12.50.
Did you?
Yeah.
Marc Matthews (23:38):
Uh when you see it all come in from different
angles, PRS, PPL, I think I gotabout a penny.
Tim Benson (23:44):
Um my publishing song trust has actually just
gone past because unlike you,you've signed up with Centric,
haven't you?
I think.
Yeah.
And so the the plus point ofCentric being that you don't
have to pay anything up front,you sign up and they take a
little bit more, don't they, inthe background.
But like it, to be honest, uh,it makes a lot of sense doing it
(24:07):
that way.
Um, but I signed up with SongTrust and I've I've made $108,
which means I've actually paidback my £100 that I had to pay
$100 that I had to pay in thefirst place.
So yeah, yeah.
I'm sort of um I'm actuallygoing to start making some money
from it eventually.
Marc Matthews (24:25):
I uh I haven't had anything from Centric yet,
so I'm waiting for that tomaterialise.
But much it's I I'd no doubt, Ihave no doubt.
It takes them forever just toregister one of my songs and
like have it that takes bloodylong enough.
But like much like yourself,this year I finally paid back
the the £50 um that I paid PRSover 10 years ago when I was a
(24:50):
student to join.
So I'm now making money fromPRS, which is quite nice.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Hopefully that continues.
Tim Benson (25:00):
Always say to people, I think it's you know it
is a bit of a pain to set allthose things up, but it's it's
worth it in the end, althoughthat may be quite some way in
the distance.
But once you've set it up, it'salso it's relatively easy to
use them.
I mean, once you've got uhpublishing admin and PRS, for
(25:20):
instance, you know, set up, youjust go in and add your next
track on your publishing thing,very simple process normally,
and and that's it.
They do the rest with PRS andeverything else, and you don't
have to do all of that, so itcan it all works out in the end,
I think.
Marc Matthews (25:37):
Um yeah, so that that's one thing I realized this
year with Centric, it makes ita lot easier.
Because previously, when I wasjust doing it on my own and um I
hadn't registered with before Iregistered with Centric, and I
had to do do it on PRS myself,but it just takes a bit of time,
got away, it's a bit of a painin the arse.
But and then when you get thatIS was it WC code, then I have
to go back and then make surelike with BBC Introducing, I
(25:58):
have to put it in there to makeand I mean that page that takes
about a year to get any moneyfrom that um from from being
from being played on the BBC.
It's the turnaround, theturnaround of it is is quite
long.
It is quite they like playingyour stuff though, they don't
like I am five for five thisyear with BBC Introducing.
I know it's impressive, itreally is in the Southwest, so
(26:20):
not the biggie yet.
Uh it's been listened to by theum main radio, like the dance
basically.
Um I think rock the the rockand metal show, the metal show
listened to it or the rock show.
And I was like, I'm notentirely sure why it was
attributed to them, but thanksfor listening either way.
(26:41):
Um but I don't I don't thinkthey were gonna play it and they
didn't, but there we go.
But that I mean that's onething I need to work on.
I I had an episode on this wayback, way, way back when, about
my reaching out to radiostations, and I am so shit at
doing it.
And like I will upload the BBCRay uh BBC Introducing, and I've
(27:01):
got a list of radio stations,about 30 or 40 radio stations in
the database.
Um audience listening, if youwant that, ping me an email,
send me a message, happy tohappy to share it with you.
Uh, but I still, I still, it'sone of those things that I just
procrastinate and never end updoing, much to my detriment, I
think.
Tim Benson (27:19):
It's good that you've done the BBC Introducing
though, because that'sdefinitely good.
It's something I forget to dowith um, but although I do think
it you're far more likely toget somewhere with it with um
vocal tracks.
I do think they're notparticularly interested in
instrumentals, which isunderstandable, but it's not
(27:39):
really what most people listento on the yeah, and I find
length as well uh makes adifference.
Marc Matthews (27:45):
Like I think the songs I put on there just under
three minutes uh until aboutthree minute twenty, three
minutes thirty, something likethat.
Certainly makes a difference.
Um, not that I shoot for that,it just so happens that's the
length of the track, but thatthat does make a difference.
Um but that's why I think goingback to my collaboration point
as well.
I think it'd be nice tocollaborate with others in the
(28:07):
UK to then submit songs in theirparticular region, which would
be quite cool.
Um but yeah, audiencelistening, if you if you're a
vocalist and uh you uh sort ofdon't have to necessarily
specialise in like EDM or danceor anything like that, but if
you're a vocalist and you'relooking to get on a track or
two, ping, send me a message,get in touch, because I'm gonna
(28:29):
look for extending my network,building my network out in 2026.
So that for me is the big one.
I suppose another one, if I ifI was to add another one, I'm
going off on a tangent here aswell.
It's touching on what wementioned there about royalty
with like PRS, PPL, publishing.
Obviously, you've got distrokit as well.
But obviously, my I seeobviously, like everybody knows.
(28:50):
Um, so I retract thatstatement, but my YouTube
channel is now monetized aswell, so that's also bringing in
uh money.
Very, I mean, it comes in like70p to two pounds a day, but
it's another sort of incomestream to add, yeah, to add to
the streaming.
This is from music from thepodcast.
And in 2026, I want to uh Ithink another goal of mine would
(29:14):
be to see that to see to kickon and and grow that both with
streaming music, music streamingrather, and also the the
YouTube monetization as well.
So I think those are targetsfor me in 2026.
Um cadence-wise, I'm quitehappy with what the I think I
put out five songs this year.
I think that's worked quitewell.
Maybe I'll shoot for six nextyear.
Tim Benson (29:35):
Yeah, I I sort of was doing quite well on getting
one song out every month, prettymuch, and then this month is
looking very unlikely unless Imanage to somehow get something
out by Friday.
Which is not entirelyimpossible, but let's face it,
it's unlikely to even get onrelease radar at this current
(29:57):
moment.
So um, yeah, it's yeah, I I'vejust ended up not able to do
anything the last couple ofweeks, but um was really
annoying.
But yeah, I got out thingsmost, you know, kept kept busy.
So yeah, I think that that hasa big effect as well.
Like you really want to beputting something out every six
weeks, and it's like I saw wheremy monthly listeners were like
(30:18):
at the end of my last release,sort of about a month later or
whatever.
And then they I I now justwatched them tail off because
you know, because if you don'trelease anything and you don't
keep that momentum going, Imean, yes, you can get it back,
but like it's it is very much ifyou want to build it, you want
to keep releasing obviously goodmaterial.
(30:39):
I don't think you want to justput out something.
That's um for that's the otherthing, isn't it?
It's like making thingsquicker, but like I'm I'm
thinking of actually doing a bitof diversification as well,
sort of this year.
If I can I've I say it everyyear is sort of I I feel like
I've got lots of musical avenuesthat I enjoy working in, and
(31:00):
it's not just um my Iron Ironproject, although that is my my
baby really.
Um I sort of um have lots ofsort of back catalogue and all
sorts of stuff that I've neverput out, and I just sort of I've
I've got that, I've got um thetop tier now on DistroKid where
I've got lots of ArcSIS profilesI can use.
(31:23):
And you know, I just thought,right, do it.
Like put out lots of thesedifferent things, and you know,
just even if it's just my backcatalogue, just release all
these things that are justhanging around, and um, you
know, some of them sort of bandthings from different bands I've
done, some of them are likesolo projects, um,
singer-songwriter stuff, somewith other people, and it's just
(31:45):
like you know, I really don'twant to just sit on music that I
do nothing with.
Um, plus, if I get those thingsout there, I might start
writing something and go, oh,I'll put that out on this
artist, or you know, feed feedthe different things I have, but
it's hard to get them up andrunning, really.
Marc Matthews (32:06):
Yeah, I I know exactly what you mean.
There are times when I'mworking on stuff and I'm
thinking I'd like to put a nameto this and release it under a
different moniker, uh, and anddo that myself.
Um, and just because I seeother artists doing it, other
sort of uh tiered artists, a bituh maybe a few tiers ahead of
as it were.
And I'm thinking it worksreally well.
(32:27):
Just having a okay, I've gotthis particular sound, I can
release it under that name, I'vegot this sound, I can release
it under that name, rather thanjust having a name and then
releasing a whole hodgepodge ofdifferent different genres,
which which was kind of what Iwas doing, but I've sort of
reined that in a bit now, and Iknow kind of like I know the the
direction that my music'sheading.
I think that does help as wellwith regards to the audience,
(32:49):
because I can see that in myhead, I'm guessing that the
algorithm is figuring okay,well, this artist is releasing
this style of music, this is theaudience, so we'll push it out
to that audience.
And that that in my head,that's what would make sense,
whether or not that's the way itworks.
Tim Benson (33:04):
I I think that's very true.
I think like you know, if if itsort of works out, I mean it of
course, on your appears on andlike, you know, what on what
someone it's the kind of thingsthat in the say you go into
certain playlists and otherartists are played in that
playlist next to you, it's thatwhole sort of thing of like
(33:26):
Spotify's trying to kind of makea pattern that makes sense,
isn't it?
Of like where you sit next toother artists, and if you kind
of just release totallydifferent things and end up in
totally different playlists withsome one week you're a produce
a brilliant house track, thenext week you produce a metal
track.
The trouble is you areconfounding the algorithm making
(33:47):
sense of that.
It is just like finding itreally hard to you know, always
in a metal playlist, always in ayou know, melodic house.
It doesn't make sense to thealgorithm, and and then you end
up sort of falling between allof these stools, I think.
So yeah, don't do that, is mymy theory.
Um, I mean, I suppose you couldbe renowned for doing uh doing
(34:10):
some a sort of style that isimpossible to you know uh
pigeonhole, but like you know,yeah, I think I think you're
right.
Marc Matthews (34:18):
I think you're right.
And uh I think it's one of thereasons why I've noticed my
listeners have have increasedthis.
My target was to get to 10,000by the end of the year, and I
think I'll hit that because I'vegot my Ace in the Pack, which
is my uh my Christmas song,which will dust off the cobwebs
and hit the algorithm, andpeople will start listening to
that again probably early nextmonth into December, and that'll
(34:42):
give me a nice little boost.
So you can always rely on thataround Christmas time, yeah.
So that's all we do.
Tim Benson (34:47):
I haven't done a Christmas song last year.
I don't know if I will thisyear either.
I have two already.
Yeah, do you have two?
I know we I have Christmaseighty-four, yeah.
Marc Matthews (34:57):
Which was the I remember that one.
And what was the other one?
Tim Benson (35:00):
The truce.
Marc Matthews (35:01):
Oh, yes, yes, yes.
Tim Benson (35:03):
Which is sort of based off of Christmas '84.
It's kind of the same track,but sort of different.
Marc Matthews (35:10):
Yeah.
I uh at the beginning of theyear I said to my other half, I
was like, Oh what?
I'm gonna do a Christmas songthis year, I'm gonna cover one,
what shall I do?
And uh, and then the year gotaway from me, and then uh it's
not gonna, I don't think it'sgonna happen now.
I don't think it will.
I think I'll need the I needthe motivation and the
enthusiasm to do it, and I don'tas much as I love Christmas, I
don't think I've got it now.
But I'll let um Christmas babyplease come home, I'll dust that
(35:33):
off, and then uh that willstart start hitting people's
ears again.
Um which was which was quitefun.
I think I turned that around inabout two weeks if I remember
rightly.
I think I do that quite fast.
It's got um sleepless nights onguitar.
Yeah, I enjoyed that.
Um folks, we've discussed longenough now and gone on tangents
(35:55):
as we do with these episodes.
So my target for you, or rathermy prompt for you, uh, if
you've been working solo allyear, who's one person you would
could one person you couldcollab with in 2026?
So thinking about who you couldcollab with next year, um, or
maybe just in general, what areyou gonna look to do or improve
on next year?
So you can send me a message inthe episode description and uh
(36:19):
I'll look to share it on a on afuture episode, probably episode
227 to be honest.
So if you're gonna be collabingwith anyone, or you could
collab with anyone, anyone atall, anyone at all, alive or
unfortunately no longer with us.
Um, who could you I say that,but with AI now, so you could
probably collab with anyone tobe honest.
Um yeah, yeah.
(36:40):
Um I'm trying to think, did heever do?
I don't think he did.
I don't think Ozzy ever did.
I know he released changes.
Did he release changes with awith Kelly Osborne around
Christmas once?
Possibly, can't remember, butthat would be quite cool.
So there you go, folks.
Uh send me a message.
What are you gonna look onimproving next year?
And also if you could collabwith anyone, who could or who
would you collab with?
(37:01):
Um, Tim, it's been a pleasure.
Thank you very much for uhchatting today.
Yeah, I appreciate that you uhyou've been under the weather,
so um sticking around and doingthis is uh I do do thank you for
this.
And um that's fine.
I haven't had any majorcoughing fits, which is good.
No, no, no, no, that's uh to befair, post you can always get
(37:23):
rid of those, or you can leaveit in like we did with the
seagulls usually, but and nowbecause it is is uh approaching
winter, the seagulls are lessapparent.
Yeah, no, they're they'rethey're all hiding, I think.
Yeah, yeah.
Um, folks, before we wrapthings up, if uh if you have
enjoyed this episode, uh doconsider joining as a member on
YouTube for the less than theprice of a coffee per month.
(37:46):
And uh I do love coffee, so um,that would be hard push for me.
Yeah, you get access to uhvideos or episodes early before
anyone else.
You get priority replied tocomments, and you get a badge as
well.
Everybody, if you love a badge,not a physical badge, but you
get a badge as well next to yourname.
So please uh do considersupporting the podcast in that
way.
And if you've enjoyed thisepisode, check out episode 175,
(38:10):
which Tim and I did, I think itdropped on New Year's Day last
year, which has turned out tobe, I think, the most popular
episode of the year, or one ofamazing.
Yeah, episode 175, which isWhat's the Secret to Mixing
Without Muddiness?
Achieving clarity and dynamicsin a mix.
It sounds perfect, doesn't it?
The perfect pairing.
(38:30):
I've got in my notes here theperfect pairing with today's
theme.
It's not really because wehaven't spoken anything of
muddiness or achieving clarity.
Um, but Tim's there, so thereis a tenuous link.
Uh, folks, uh big thank you forthis.
Um I don't know.
Thank you, thank you, thankingfolks.
I've got fun at a tangent here.
Um until next time, keepcreating, keep mixing, and I
(38:53):
will see you in the next one.
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