May 28, 2024 • 22 mins
This episode is short and sweet, but very interesting. Everyone can at least agree that Dragons are cool mythical creatures. Whether or not they actually existed, however, is debatable. Join Evan, Mell, Wes, and Tommy as they dive into historical records to see if there is anything that may support the notion that at one point in human history, Dragons were real.
For further reading:
"Natural History of Dragons" - American Museum of Natural History
"Did Dragons Exist? Exploring the Mythical Monster Mystery" - NOW Magazine - Northrup Grumman
"Dragons in History" - Genesis Park
Copyright Disclaimer under Section 107 of the Copyright Act of 1976: Allowance is made for “fair use” for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, education, and research. Fair use is a use permitted by copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing. This channel is for educational, informational and entertainment purposes.
Please visit our website: www.militaryveteransparanormal.com for access to more information about this episode and others, as well as other research and investigations we've done.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Welcome back to MVP's .
What the f***, what the f***?
Paranormal Podcast, where wetalk about, well, everything the
paranormal encompasses.
So you ready?
Let's f***ing do this.
Alright, do we go now?
Yeah, alright, okay, alright,welcome back everybody.
(00:25):
I'm evan.
I'm here with mel west andtommy.
This season we're talking aboutcrypto and, no, not the digital
currency.
We're talking about cryptozoology.
This week, we're justdiscussing the granddaddy of all
the monsters the dragon I'veseen the cinnamon dragon before
from the cinnamon challenge.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
What, oh my God, you guys not seen that cinnamon
challenge?
Speaker 3 (00:50):
We did the cinnamon challenge in Iraq and one of my
sergeants put this big old wadof powdered cinnamon in his
mouth.
He didn't think it was going tobe a big deal, and then he
coughed and the puffs ofcinnamon smoke came out of his
nose.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Usually comes flying out the nose, out the mouth.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
Yeah, In grandiose fashion.
It was the greatest spectacleI'd saw.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
I don't know why people think that that's a good
idea.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
It's hilarious as all get out.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
It's a horrible idea, it's a fantastic idea.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
So dragons, what are you guys' thoughts on dragons?
Speaker 3 (01:27):
Well based on my research.
Historically speaking, I thinkit's impossible.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
Yeah, for sure, man.
I mean the pictures andillustrations and texts about
dragons have stretched back forthousands of years I was gonna
agree with this, with the lorebehind dragons itself.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
I mean, look at and I'm not just saying asian alone,
but every asian society isfocused on dragons it's found in
almost every culture on earthwell, I was gonna say you got uh
vikings and everything justcoming down the line.
I'm not trying to go into yourbusiness, west, but yeah, I, why
(02:10):
not?
Like seriously, I I do thinkthere could have been forms.
I'm not saying that they'relike uh fire down below or
whatever that movie is, but rainof fire there it is, yeah, such
a badass movie.
I'm not saying there wassomething like that, but who
knows, maybe they were allhunted out of existence well, I
(02:32):
found, you know, traces ofdragons being drawn and on
chinese rocks.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
But in the shang tse province, you know, like
thousands of years ago, um talksabout them in the Sumerian
texts, in the Babylonian textsthey were worshipped by Aztecs,
you know, the Celts talked aboutthem in the, you know, asian
cultures, the Chinese, japanese,even Korean.
They, you know, they have alittle bit different.
(02:59):
Look on the dragons it seemslike they are more peaceful.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
The Korean dragon.
There's a three claw dragon andthen there's a forge claw
dragon okay.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
Well, that's news to all of us.
But all right, carry on it'syour thing.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
What do you mean?
Speaker 1 (03:15):
carry on all right, well.
Well, I found this really coolstory that is hysterical, so
this comes from medieval Europe.
There's a story about St George.
Speaker 4 (03:33):
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, I also came across this, Did
you?
Speaker 1 (03:36):
It's hysterical.
I did so.
St George lived during the 3rdcentury AD and his story gets
told throughout this group oftexts called the Golden Legend,
which is like biographies of thesaints.
According to the story, one dayhe was traveling in, I guess,
(04:00):
modern-day Libya when he came tothis town and the town was
being attacked by this menacingdragon that lived nearby.
And the dragon raged fireacross the countryside and
whatnot.
Anyways, the town peoplestarted offering sacrifices to
the dragon each day.
First they offered him twosheep, then they offered him a
man and a sheep, and finallythey offered the town's children
(04:23):
and their youth, which is kindof messed up, but anyways, the
sacrificial victims were chosenby lot and on the day that St
George arrived, it was theking's daughter who was up to be
sacrificed.
The saint saw the princessbeside the pond and asked her
what was going on.
Upon hearing the story of thedragon, st George resolved the
(04:46):
fight and rescued the princess.
When the dragon appeared, saintmade the sign of the cross,
charged at it on horseback andspeared it with his lance like a
total badass.
Having wounded the dragon,saint george asked the princess
for her gird, which he used totie around the dragon's neck.
Once this was done, the dragonwas then tamed and followed the
(05:09):
pair back to town.
St George offered to kill thedragon if the townspeople became
Christians.
They converted, and so hebeheaded the dragon.
End of story.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
That's all I have to say about that.
Speaker 4 (05:25):
That's the right on man.
You said it all yeah, readythen that's interesting isn't
Speaker 1 (05:32):
that wild that is.
Oh, girl, give me, give me yourgirdle, let me tame this dragon
.
That's weird.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
I thought it was much more funny than what you guys
led on to be dang I got a bunchof bad jokes in my head right
now, so I'm trying not to fairenough.
Hey, what's that?
What's that music group aboutdragons?
Don't dragon these balls acrossyour face.
Speaker 3 (05:55):
You think I don't know.
Okay, so in south dakota, uh,part of the Hell Creek Formation
, which is like a fossildiscovery area, they did in 2006
, I think, or 2004,.
They did find a fossil that isvery dragon-esque.
(06:17):
It was determined in 2006 to bea Pachycephalosaurus.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
Some sort of dinosaur , I imagine.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
The skull actually does look very dragon-like, and
so they allowed children theChildren's Museum of
Indianapolis to name it.
And so, guess what?
They named it Dracoryxhogwartsia.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
Get the fuck out of here, nice.
Speaker 3 (06:44):
They also archaeologists discovered a
fossil of a 240 million.
It's a 240 million year fossilof a 16 foot dragon in China.
It's aquatic.
They called it a dragon becauseof the neck.
It's called a Dinocephalosaurus.
(07:06):
The neck had like 32 separatevertebrae.
It has this very long tail.
But here's something else.
Scientists in Argentinadiscovered a species of flying
reptiles that they dubbed thedragon of death and they
probably flew around Earth withdinosaurs around 86 million
(07:28):
years ago.
It's a pterosaur.
But it would you know it hadwings?
You think about that, you know.
So that's kind of close, but Ithink, Evan, you touched upon
something that I think a lot ofpeople are missing, and that is
that hieroglyphs from culturesthat never communicated.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
Yeah, how did the Mayans and the Romans both draw
the same thing?
Speaker 3 (07:56):
And these were different cultures that had no
communications or interactionswith each other at the time that
these glyphs were created.
And that's got.
I mean that has to meansomething.
And so a lot of people thinkthat, well, you know dragons,
it's all mythical and stuff likethat.
(08:16):
However, there are scholars,specifically Phil Senter, uta,
maddox, id, haddad they arguethat natural history is what
started depicting them as veryfantastical.
But it was only in the 18thcentury that natural historians
(08:37):
determined that dragons didn'texist at all.
Up until then, they did believein them.
In fact, they did a translationof the dragon section of the
Schlangenbuch, which is theEncyclopedia of Natural History
by Conrad Gessner.
(08:57):
He was a Swiss physician andnaturalist and this was
published back in the 1580s.
He was, and with hisencyclopedia he was trying to
compile everything ever writtenabout every animal species on
Earth.
He included dragons.
Damn, there was a dragonsection.
He was getting these writtenscripts and stuff from various
(09:22):
cultures around the world toinclude Greek, egyptian, indian
that described flying serpents,and so he asserted that, hey,
dragons could, could fly.
Augustine of Hippo, hedescribed dragons as Earth's
largest animals.
It may not be like Game ofThrones kind of dragons.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
I mean, we know that, you know the pterosaurs existed
in the dinosaur age.
You know which were.
You know the pterodactyls andall the big, giant reptilian
birds that flew around the earth.
That was a thing.
Those are real, we know thatfor sure.
What's to say that you know,some of those things didn't kind
of survive through the dinosaurapocalypse and kind of evolve
(10:04):
into what we they knew came toknow as dragons later on, right
right.
And speaking of you know, onthe on the part about the
fossils and stuff, you knowthat's a big argument for a lot
of people against the existenceof dragons is, well, there's no
fossils, there's no bones, andthere's been a lot of people
come up and say that it'spossible that maybe dragons
(10:25):
being such big, large creatures,it's possible that they had
bones, you know, akin to thebones of birds, which are hollow
and therefore wouldn'tfossilize.
Speaker 3 (10:35):
What do you mean?
Can you explain that a littlebit more?
Speaker 1 (10:37):
So the bones and bird bones have like these hollow
channels in them.
They're like, they're almosthollow tubes that have like
these little structures builtthroughout them.
So when a bird, you know, diesand it doesn't the bones usually
just crumble to dust and don'tactually set up long enough to
fossilize.
They can fossilize underextreme circumstances, but most
(10:59):
of the time they don't.
So if dragons had the bonessimilar to birds and they, you
know that, were hollow, hollowbones, we wouldn't find fossils
of them oh, I get it.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
I get it okay.
Also, in ancient greeks andsumerians, dragons were
described as giant serpents thatwould crush people with coils,
kill with venomous breath.
Right, yeah, for the majorityof history, they were thought of
as being like any othermythical animal, sometimes
(11:36):
useful, protective.
It wasn't until Christianitywas spread throughout the world
that dragons changed and theyhad like a more sinister
interpretation.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
Interesting.
Yeah, that's what I was reading.
Speaker 3 (11:44):
In the Bible, christians at the time they
believed in a literal existenceof dragons.
In the book of Job,specifically chapter 41, there
was a Leviathan.
So when Christianity spread,then these dragons were no
longer useful and protective.
They represented something evil.
Speaker 4 (12:08):
I was reading into all that too, mel, and the way I
was picking it up wasessentially right.
The, the church, used dragonsto control the populace is how I
read into it they, they tooksomething and demonized it and
they were like look, only thechurch can protect you, you know
?
And?
And that's how the Europeandragons became the way that they
(12:32):
did, shooting hellfire and allof that stuff, and that's where
St George came in, evan, youknow the dragon slayer.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
St.
Speaker 4 (12:40):
George and the girdle , the fucking pimp himself.
Speaker 3 (12:44):
They used him as the dragon slayer to convert people
over to Christianity.
Speaker 4 (12:51):
That's hilarious.
I'd like to see any of us gocharge a fucking dinosaur with a
cross and see what happens.
I will fear no living creatureas long as I keep this near me.
Speaker 3 (13:04):
Take that you way in spawn of Satan Die devil bird.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
He had a lance as well.
Speaker 3 (13:14):
When you're looking at from a paleontologist or an
archaeologist's point of view.
There are fossils, there arehieroglyphs, and they weren't
though always in the sky.
They were underwater, yeah, andthey weren't though always in
the sky, they were underwater.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
Yeah, that seems to be a big one.
In the Asian cultures is thewater dragons, especially in the
Japanese.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
Japanese culture.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
Yeah, they have a dragon called what's it called?
Watatsumi.
That's the dragon king and thegreat god of the sea and the
oceans.
It looks pretty badass.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
What do you guys think about the idea that they
were actually real?
I don't see why they're justnot as it's depicted like in
game of thrones or house ofdragons right like, not as big
as those types of dragons.
Agreed now I know that there'sa video out there allegedly
where a town in China in 2017found the skeletal remains of a
(14:14):
dragon.
I believe that's a hoax.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
I've seen that video too, yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
I mean, they went to great lengths.
It's pretty massive what theydid, but it looks like there's
still meat on the bones thatthey laid together.
Y'all probably should havewashed them and let them dry out
first.
Um, do we know where the ideaof a dragon started from?
(14:40):
The mythical?
Yeah, I dug deep.
Speaker 4 (14:44):
I dug so deep into that tunnel and, uh, the answer
is nobody fucking knows.
That's the answer.
Nobody knows, it's just beenlost in the times.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
Oh, well, what about the dragon of of babylon?
Is that I mean, do you thinkthat's where it might have
started?
Do you even know the dragon ofbabylon?
I don't guess I do so in 1918,there was a German archaeologist
called Coldaway or somethinglike that.
He excavated Babylon, which isIraq people, and he thought and
(15:19):
he observed that there was adepiction of this mythological,
fantastical dragon of Babylon onthe 6th century BCE Ishtar Gate
Poldave.
He was a very well-respectedexcavator and archaeologist and
he was brilliant.
But he came across what hefound to be ancient remains and
(15:46):
it kind of depicted theso-called dragon of Babylon, a
once living creature very muchlike a dinosaur kind of like in
terms of anatomically, but itmight have just kind of stopped
short of being a dragon.
And that's the first like interms of any sort of academic
(16:12):
study In cryptozoology.
Dragons went then intocryptozoology from the basis of
the Ishtar Gate.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
Interesting.
So does he think that hepossibly discovered the first,
the first, you know?
Speaker 3 (16:27):
description or illustration of a dragon Sixth
century BCE.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
Interesting.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
If you look up dragon of Babylon, it's the Mushu.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
Mushu.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
It says eventually Daniel poisoned it before you're
thrown into a fire pit I meanthis is sixth century, I mean
604 to 562 bc.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
So what do you guys think the chances are that all
of these people back then, justyou know, made the shit up here.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
I think what I find fascinating is the fact that the
various cultures who had nointeractions are all depicting
dragons.
But I don't think what we seefrom like game of thrones, with
them being like, almost likewith winged and pegasus thing.
I don't think it was that.
I do think it was more serpentlike, if anything yeah, I agree,
(17:23):
but I do think there's apossibility of them being real.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
I I mean, I just thought so much this with the
wings, but you see how small itis.
I could see it being like thissmall.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
My ancestors sent a little lizard to help me.
Hey, dragon, dragon, not lizard, I don't do that tongue thing.
You're intimidating orinspiring Tiny, of course I'm
travel size for your convenience.
Speaker 4 (17:55):
The fire breathing didn't come into play until
Christianity.
Christianity the one thatbrought that forward.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
The Leviathan, which says it stretched like 300 miles
in length.
Speaker 3 (18:06):
Like it may have had venomous breath.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
Not necessarily fire, but yeah, it could have been
something similar to like thebombardier beetle that shoots
like this hot gas out of itsfront end.
Yeah, that's what.
Speaker 3 (18:18):
I'm.
It had hot breath.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
It has some hot-ass breath.
Listerine ain't gonna helpanywhere.
Yeah, I mean, that's kind ofthe road I'm leaning towards as
well.
You know, they were probably,you know, real creatures, but
not what modern media hasdepicted them as but I do like
the idea more of hollywooddragons, because those are
fucking badass yeah, the flyingdragons yeah they're fucking
(18:44):
cool hell yeah so with crypto,do they think that they have
wings for the most part?
I think it varies on who youtalk to.
Really Half of the crowd thinksthat they did and the books
that I have.
They talk about strictlyterrestrial dragons, which would
just be non-flying, justland-living dragon types, and
(19:08):
then they talk about waterdragons, which also don't fly,
and then they have a smallcircle of people that do talk
about the winged dragons.
I haven't seen too many peopletalking about them actually
spitting fire like they do inmovies.
Speaker 3 (19:21):
Well, that's in Western culture, though See.
In Asian culture dragonssymbolize strength, courage,
prosperity, prosperity.
And it's very benevolent,whereas in Western culture it's
something to fear, it'sdangerous, it's not a good thing
.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
Yeah, it's creeping on the townspeople and burning
your fields and your cattle.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Think how many times these stories have been passed
down, whether it's movie or uh,you see depictive drawing stuff
like that.
It gets passed down.
Your kids will know that it'sconsidered a dragon and goes on,
and goes on.
But like there might be stufflike ie, what is it?
The endangered sea turtleswhere you give about 200 years
(20:07):
from now?
thank you, wes, for smiling atme god bless you um and uh where
the sea turtle will no longerbe exist.
You know I'm saying it will beextinct by then.
So then they had to go off ofour drawings and our pictures in
order to see that I don't getwhat, just that type of thing?
Speaker 3 (20:26):
no, I don I don't?
Speaker 2 (20:27):
You know what I'm saying?
So what I'm saying aboutdragons is the same way I'm
saying about sea turtles.
They could be extinct andduring our time we never got to
see them, but back in the daythese things could have been
flying around.
It could have been just likebirds, Just like a normal thing,
(20:49):
like an everyday thing andbecause they're're extinct, we
just don't see them anymore.
Just like I said, give it 200years from now, and there might
not be any more sea turtles, sothat new generation, 200 years
from now, will be like well,there's this thing called a
turtle, but we don't have themanymore.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
This is what they look like I like to think about
dragons, kind of like theMegalodon, like it's hard to
envision a fucking 100-foot-longshark out there cruising in the
water just murdering the shitout of everything.
But that was a real thing.
Like we know, it was real.
There's been some wild, crazy,huge megafauna creatures on this
(21:26):
earth throughout history.
Yes, doesn't seem toofar-fetched for me to believe
that there was some giantserpents.
Possibly some of them couldhave flown.
No, just like mermaids, right?
Speaker 3 (21:37):
Yes, so I don't know.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
It's interesting, it's cool.
That's why we're here.
It's interesting.
Speaker 3 (21:47):
It's cool.
I'm more prone to believe inthe possible existence of
dragons than mermaids.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
Fair enough.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
Alright, well, until next time.
Wesley, you want to take us outof here?
Speaker 4 (22:04):
Oh shit, damn on the spot eh.
Speaker 3 (22:15):
Peace Mic drop.
That's the worst ever.
That fucking sucked dragonballs.
No, absolutely not what?
Speaker 4 (22:19):
no, that was great, absolutely not absolutely not
that was fucking perfect go.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
That's not how we go out.
Speaker 3 (22:26):
There's got to be a lesson in all of this, evan.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
Well, if you need a real lesson, I would say, take a
page out of St George's book.
And if you're fighting a deadlydragon, grab the nearest
hottie's girdle, strap thatthing up and tame that son of a
bitch.
This has been MVP's.
What the Fuck Paranormal?
Go fuck yourselves everybody.
Speaker 4 (22:51):
Absolutely not the fuck.
Paranormal.
Go fuck yourselves everybody.
How?
Absolutely not, absolutely not.
What the fuck.
Welcome back to MVP's .
What the f***, what the f***?
Paranormal Podcast, where wetalk about, well, everything the
paranormal encompasses.
So you ready?
Let's f***ing do this.
Alright, do we go now?
Yeah, alright, okay, alright,welcome back everybody.
(00:25):
I'm evan.
I'm here with mel west andtommy.
This season we're talking aboutcrypto and, no, not the digital
currency.
We're talking about cryptozoology.
This week, we're justdiscussing the granddaddy of all
the monsters the dragon I'veseen the cinnamon dragon before
from the cinnamon challenge.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
What, oh my God, you guys not seen that cinnamon
challenge?
Speaker 3 (00:50):
We did the cinnamon challenge in Iraq and one of my
sergeants put this big old wadof powdered cinnamon in his
mouth.
He didn't think it was going tobe a big deal, and then he
coughed and the puffs ofcinnamon smoke came out of his
nose.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
Usually comes flying out the nose, out the mouth.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
Yeah, In grandiose fashion.
It was the greatest spectacleI'd saw.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
I don't know why people think that that's a good
idea.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
It's hilarious as all get out.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
It's a horrible idea, it's a fantastic idea.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
So dragons, what are you guys' thoughts on dragons?
Speaker 3 (01:27):
Well based on my research.
Historically speaking, I thinkit's impossible.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
Yeah, for sure, man.
I mean the pictures andillustrations and texts about
dragons have stretched back forthousands of years I was gonna
agree with this, with the lorebehind dragons itself.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
I mean, look at and I'm not just saying asian alone,
but every asian society isfocused on dragons it's found in
almost every culture on earthwell, I was gonna say you got uh
vikings and everything justcoming down the line.
I'm not trying to go into yourbusiness, west, but yeah, I, why
(02:10):
not?
Like seriously, I I do thinkthere could have been forms.
I'm not saying that they'relike uh fire down below or
whatever that movie is, but rainof fire there it is, yeah, such
a badass movie.
I'm not saying there wassomething like that, but who
knows, maybe they were allhunted out of existence well, I
(02:32):
found, you know, traces ofdragons being drawn and on
chinese rocks.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
But in the shang tse province, you know, like
thousands of years ago, um talksabout them in the Sumerian
texts, in the Babylonian textsthey were worshipped by Aztecs,
you know, the Celts talked aboutthem in the, you know, asian
cultures, the Chinese, japanese,even Korean.
They, you know, they have alittle bit different.
(02:59):
Look on the dragons it seemslike they are more peaceful.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
The Korean dragon.
There's a three claw dragon andthen there's a forge claw
dragon okay.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
Well, that's news to all of us.
But all right, carry on it'syour thing.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
What do you mean?
Speaker 1 (03:15):
carry on all right, well.
Well, I found this really coolstory that is hysterical, so
this comes from medieval Europe.
There's a story about St George.
Speaker 4 (03:33):
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, I also came across this, Did
you?
Speaker 1 (03:36):
It's hysterical.
I did so.
St George lived during the 3rdcentury AD and his story gets
told throughout this group oftexts called the Golden Legend,
which is like biographies of thesaints.
According to the story, one dayhe was traveling in, I guess,
(04:00):
modern-day Libya when he came tothis town and the town was
being attacked by this menacingdragon that lived nearby.
And the dragon raged fireacross the countryside and
whatnot.
Anyways, the town peoplestarted offering sacrifices to
the dragon each day.
First they offered him twosheep, then they offered him a
man and a sheep, and finallythey offered the town's children
(04:23):
and their youth, which is kindof messed up, but anyways, the
sacrificial victims were chosenby lot and on the day that St
George arrived, it was theking's daughter who was up to be
sacrificed.
The saint saw the princessbeside the pond and asked her
what was going on.
Upon hearing the story of thedragon, st George resolved the
(04:46):
fight and rescued the princess.
When the dragon appeared, saintmade the sign of the cross,
charged at it on horseback andspeared it with his lance like a
total badass.
Having wounded the dragon,saint george asked the princess
for her gird, which he used totie around the dragon's neck.
Once this was done, the dragonwas then tamed and followed the
(05:09):
pair back to town.
St George offered to kill thedragon if the townspeople became
Christians.
They converted, and so hebeheaded the dragon.
End of story.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
That's all I have to say about that.
Speaker 4 (05:25):
That's the right on man.
You said it all yeah, readythen that's interesting isn't
Speaker 1 (05:32):
that wild that is.
Oh, girl, give me, give me yourgirdle, let me tame this dragon
.
That's weird.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
I thought it was much more funny than what you guys
led on to be dang I got a bunchof bad jokes in my head right
now, so I'm trying not to fairenough.
Hey, what's that?
What's that music group aboutdragons?
Don't dragon these balls acrossyour face.
Speaker 3 (05:55):
You think I don't know.
Okay, so in south dakota, uh,part of the Hell Creek Formation
, which is like a fossildiscovery area, they did in 2006
, I think, or 2004,.
They did find a fossil that isvery dragon-esque.
(06:17):
It was determined in 2006 to bea Pachycephalosaurus.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
Some sort of dinosaur , I imagine.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
The skull actually does look very dragon-like, and
so they allowed children theChildren's Museum of
Indianapolis to name it.
And so, guess what?
They named it Dracoryxhogwartsia.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
Get the fuck out of here, nice.
Speaker 3 (06:44):
They also archaeologists discovered a
fossil of a 240 million.
It's a 240 million year fossilof a 16 foot dragon in China.
It's aquatic.
They called it a dragon becauseof the neck.
It's called a Dinocephalosaurus.
(07:06):
The neck had like 32 separatevertebrae.
It has this very long tail.
But here's something else.
Scientists in Argentinadiscovered a species of flying
reptiles that they dubbed thedragon of death and they
probably flew around Earth withdinosaurs around 86 million
(07:28):
years ago.
It's a pterosaur.
But it would you know it hadwings?
You think about that, you know.
So that's kind of close, but Ithink, Evan, you touched upon
something that I think a lot ofpeople are missing, and that is
that hieroglyphs from culturesthat never communicated.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
Yeah, how did the Mayans and the Romans both draw
the same thing?
Speaker 3 (07:56):
And these were different cultures that had no
communications or interactionswith each other at the time that
these glyphs were created.
And that's got.
I mean that has to meansomething.
And so a lot of people thinkthat, well, you know dragons,
it's all mythical and stuff likethat.
(08:16):
However, there are scholars,specifically Phil Senter, uta,
maddox, id, haddad they arguethat natural history is what
started depicting them as veryfantastical.
But it was only in the 18thcentury that natural historians
(08:37):
determined that dragons didn'texist at all.
Up until then, they did believein them.
In fact, they did a translationof the dragon section of the
Schlangenbuch, which is theEncyclopedia of Natural History
by Conrad Gessner.
(08:57):
He was a Swiss physician andnaturalist and this was
published back in the 1580s.
He was, and with hisencyclopedia he was trying to
compile everything ever writtenabout every animal species on
Earth.
He included dragons.
Damn, there was a dragonsection.
He was getting these writtenscripts and stuff from various
(09:22):
cultures around the world toinclude Greek, egyptian, indian
that described flying serpents,and so he asserted that, hey,
dragons could, could fly.
Augustine of Hippo, hedescribed dragons as Earth's
largest animals.
It may not be like Game ofThrones kind of dragons.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
I mean, we know that, you know the pterosaurs existed
in the dinosaur age.
You know which were.
You know the pterodactyls andall the big, giant reptilian
birds that flew around the earth.
That was a thing.
Those are real, we know thatfor sure.
What's to say that you know,some of those things didn't kind
of survive through the dinosaurapocalypse and kind of evolve
(10:04):
into what we they knew came toknow as dragons later on, right
right.
And speaking of you know, onthe on the part about the
fossils and stuff, you knowthat's a big argument for a lot
of people against the existenceof dragons is, well, there's no
fossils, there's no bones, andthere's been a lot of people
come up and say that it'spossible that maybe dragons
(10:25):
being such big, large creatures,it's possible that they had
bones, you know, akin to thebones of birds, which are hollow
and therefore wouldn'tfossilize.
Speaker 3 (10:35):
What do you mean?
Can you explain that a littlebit more?
Speaker 1 (10:37):
So the bones and bird bones have like these hollow
channels in them.
They're like, they're almosthollow tubes that have like
these little structures builtthroughout them.
So when a bird, you know, diesand it doesn't the bones usually
just crumble to dust and don'tactually set up long enough to
fossilize.
They can fossilize underextreme circumstances, but most
(10:59):
of the time they don't.
So if dragons had the bonessimilar to birds and they, you
know that, were hollow, hollowbones, we wouldn't find fossils
of them oh, I get it.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
I get it okay.
Also, in ancient greeks andsumerians, dragons were
described as giant serpents thatwould crush people with coils,
kill with venomous breath.
Right, yeah, for the majorityof history, they were thought of
as being like any othermythical animal, sometimes
(11:36):
useful, protective.
It wasn't until Christianitywas spread throughout the world
that dragons changed and theyhad like a more sinister
interpretation.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
Interesting.
Yeah, that's what I was reading.
Speaker 3 (11:44):
In the Bible, christians at the time they
believed in a literal existenceof dragons.
In the book of Job,specifically chapter 41, there
was a Leviathan.
So when Christianity spread,then these dragons were no
longer useful and protective.
They represented something evil.
Speaker 4 (12:08):
I was reading into all that too, mel, and the way I
was picking it up wasessentially right.
The, the church, used dragonsto control the populace is how I
read into it they, they tooksomething and demonized it and
they were like look, only thechurch can protect you, you know
?
And?
And that's how the Europeandragons became the way that they
(12:32):
did, shooting hellfire and allof that stuff, and that's where
St George came in, evan, youknow the dragon slayer.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
St.
Speaker 4 (12:40):
George and the girdle , the fucking pimp himself.
Speaker 3 (12:44):
They used him as the dragon slayer to convert people
over to Christianity.
Speaker 4 (12:51):
That's hilarious.
I'd like to see any of us gocharge a fucking dinosaur with a
cross and see what happens.
I will fear no living creatureas long as I keep this near me.
Speaker 3 (13:04):
Take that you way in spawn of Satan Die devil bird.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
He had a lance as well.
Speaker 3 (13:14):
When you're looking at from a paleontologist or an
archaeologist's point of view.
There are fossils, there arehieroglyphs, and they weren't
though always in the sky.
They were underwater, yeah, andthey weren't though always in
the sky, they were underwater.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
Yeah, that seems to be a big one.
In the Asian cultures is thewater dragons, especially in the
Japanese.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
Japanese culture.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
Yeah, they have a dragon called what's it called?
Watatsumi.
That's the dragon king and thegreat god of the sea and the
oceans.
It looks pretty badass.
Speaker 3 (13:51):
What do you guys think about the idea that they
were actually real?
I don't see why they're justnot as it's depicted like in
game of thrones or house ofdragons right like, not as big
as those types of dragons.
Agreed now I know that there'sa video out there allegedly
where a town in China in 2017found the skeletal remains of a
(14:14):
dragon.
I believe that's a hoax.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
I've seen that video too, yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
I mean, they went to great lengths.
It's pretty massive what theydid, but it looks like there's
still meat on the bones thatthey laid together.
Y'all probably should havewashed them and let them dry out
first.
Um, do we know where the ideaof a dragon started from?
(14:40):
The mythical?
Yeah, I dug deep.
Speaker 4 (14:44):
I dug so deep into that tunnel and, uh, the answer
is nobody fucking knows.
That's the answer.
Nobody knows, it's just beenlost in the times.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
Oh, well, what about the dragon of of babylon?
Is that I mean, do you thinkthat's where it might have
started?
Do you even know the dragon ofbabylon?
I don't guess I do so in 1918,there was a German archaeologist
called Coldaway or somethinglike that.
He excavated Babylon, which isIraq people, and he thought and
(15:19):
he observed that there was adepiction of this mythological,
fantastical dragon of Babylon onthe 6th century BCE Ishtar Gate
Poldave.
He was a very well-respectedexcavator and archaeologist and
he was brilliant.
But he came across what hefound to be ancient remains and
(15:46):
it kind of depicted theso-called dragon of Babylon, a
once living creature very muchlike a dinosaur kind of like in
terms of anatomically, but itmight have just kind of stopped
short of being a dragon.
And that's the first like interms of any sort of academic
(16:12):
study In cryptozoology.
Dragons went then intocryptozoology from the basis of
the Ishtar Gate.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
Interesting.
So does he think that hepossibly discovered the first,
the first, you know?
Speaker 3 (16:27):
description or illustration of a dragon Sixth
century BCE.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
Interesting.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
If you look up dragon of Babylon, it's the Mushu.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
Mushu.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
It says eventually Daniel poisoned it before you're
thrown into a fire pit I meanthis is sixth century, I mean
604 to 562 bc.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
So what do you guys think the chances are that all
of these people back then, justyou know, made the shit up here.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
I think what I find fascinating is the fact that the
various cultures who had nointeractions are all depicting
dragons.
But I don't think what we seefrom like game of thrones, with
them being like, almost likewith winged and pegasus thing.
I don't think it was that.
I do think it was more serpentlike, if anything yeah, I agree,
(17:23):
but I do think there's apossibility of them being real.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
I I mean, I just thought so much this with the
wings, but you see how small itis.
I could see it being like thissmall.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
My ancestors sent a little lizard to help me.
Hey, dragon, dragon, not lizard, I don't do that tongue thing.
You're intimidating orinspiring Tiny, of course I'm
travel size for your convenience.
Speaker 4 (17:55):
The fire breathing didn't come into play until
Christianity.
Christianity the one thatbrought that forward.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
The Leviathan, which says it stretched like 300 miles
in length.
Speaker 3 (18:06):
Like it may have had venomous breath.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
Not necessarily fire, but yeah, it could have been
something similar to like thebombardier beetle that shoots
like this hot gas out of itsfront end.
Yeah, that's what.
Speaker 3 (18:18):
I'm.
It had hot breath.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
It has some hot-ass breath.
Listerine ain't gonna helpanywhere.
Yeah, I mean, that's kind ofthe road I'm leaning towards as
well.
You know, they were probably,you know, real creatures, but
not what modern media hasdepicted them as but I do like
the idea more of hollywooddragons, because those are
fucking badass yeah, the flyingdragons yeah they're fucking
(18:44):
cool hell yeah so with crypto,do they think that they have
wings for the most part?
I think it varies on who youtalk to.
Really Half of the crowd thinksthat they did and the books
that I have.
They talk about strictlyterrestrial dragons, which would
just be non-flying, justland-living dragon types, and
(19:08):
then they talk about waterdragons, which also don't fly,
and then they have a smallcircle of people that do talk
about the winged dragons.
I haven't seen too many peopletalking about them actually
spitting fire like they do inmovies.
Speaker 3 (19:21):
Well, that's in Western culture, though See.
In Asian culture dragonssymbolize strength, courage,
prosperity, prosperity.
And it's very benevolent,whereas in Western culture it's
something to fear, it'sdangerous, it's not a good thing
.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
Yeah, it's creeping on the townspeople and burning
your fields and your cattle.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Think how many times these stories have been passed
down, whether it's movie or uh,you see depictive drawing stuff
like that.
It gets passed down.
Your kids will know that it'sconsidered a dragon and goes on,
and goes on.
But like there might be stufflike ie, what is it?
The endangered sea turtleswhere you give about 200 years
(20:07):
from now?
thank you, wes, for smiling atme god bless you um and uh where
the sea turtle will no longerbe exist.
You know I'm saying it will beextinct by then.
So then they had to go off ofour drawings and our pictures in
order to see that I don't getwhat, just that type of thing?
Speaker 3 (20:26):
no, I don I don't?
Speaker 2 (20:27):
You know what I'm saying?
So what I'm saying aboutdragons is the same way I'm
saying about sea turtles.
They could be extinct andduring our time we never got to
see them, but back in the daythese things could have been
flying around.
It could have been just likebirds, Just like a normal thing,
(20:49):
like an everyday thing andbecause they're're extinct, we
just don't see them anymore.
Just like I said, give it 200years from now, and there might
not be any more sea turtles, sothat new generation, 200 years
from now, will be like well,there's this thing called a
turtle, but we don't have themanymore.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
This is what they look like I like to think about
dragons, kind of like theMegalodon, like it's hard to
envision a fucking 100-foot-longshark out there cruising in the
water just murdering the shitout of everything.
But that was a real thing.
Like we know, it was real.
There's been some wild, crazy,huge megafauna creatures on this
(21:26):
earth throughout history.
Yes, doesn't seem toofar-fetched for me to believe
that there was some giantserpents.
Possibly some of them couldhave flown.
No, just like mermaids, right?
Speaker 3 (21:37):
Yes, so I don't know.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
It's interesting, it's cool.
That's why we're here.
It's interesting.
Speaker 3 (21:47):
It's cool.
I'm more prone to believe inthe possible existence of
dragons than mermaids.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
Fair enough.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
Alright, well, until next time.
Wesley, you want to take us outof here?
Speaker 4 (22:04):
Oh shit, damn on the spot eh.
Speaker 3 (22:15):
Peace Mic drop.
That's the worst ever.
That fucking sucked dragonballs.
No, absolutely not what?
Speaker 4 (22:19):
no, that was great, absolutely not absolutely not
that was fucking perfect go.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
That's not how we go out.
Speaker 3 (22:26):
There's got to be a lesson in all of this, evan.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
Well, if you need a real lesson, I would say, take a
page out of St George's book.
And if you're fighting a deadlydragon, grab the nearest
hottie's girdle, strap thatthing up and tame that son of a
bitch.
This has been MVP's.
What the Fuck Paranormal?
Go fuck yourselves everybody.
Speaker 4 (22:51):
Absolutely not the fuck.
Paranormal.
Go fuck yourselves everybody.
How?
Absolutely not, absolutely not.
What the fuck.
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