May 18, 2024 • 41 mins
Embark on a howl of an adventure as we explore the haunting legends of werewolves, the shadowy figures that have prowled the edge of reality and mythology for millennia. From the ancient Epic of Gilgamesh to medieval European trials, we unravel the tangled web of werewolf lore that has captured human imagination. Brace yourself for a journey into the past, where magic-infused Viking warriors don wolf pelts and where hypertrichosis blurs the line between man and beast.
Prepare for a spine-tingling encounter with history's darkest corners, including the bone-chilling confession of a 16th-century man accused of lycanthropy and the modern psychological phenomenon of clinical lycanthropy. We juxtapose this with lighter, yet equally curious anecdotes of modern-day werewolf sightings and the peculiar subcultures that idolize these creatures. Through tales of terror and tragedy, we'll connect the howls of ancient myth with the whispers of contemporary lore.
Finally, we unveil the extraordinary life of Gonzalves, the hairy nobleman of France, whose existence teetered on the brink of myth and reality. His story, which may have sown the seeds for "Beauty and the Beast," showcases the bizarre ways in which society has historically reacted to the unknown. Join us for a narrative that is as strange as it is true, and discover how the legend of the werewolf continues to captivate, confound, and, at times, amuse us as we seek to understand the beast within.
For further reading on the topics and people we discuss, we've linked more information below:
Hypertrichosis (The condition of people like the bearded lady)
Lycanthropy
The Hairy Family and the Habsburgs
The History of Werewolves
Werewolves: The Legend of Lycanthropy
Are werewolves real? The facts and history behind the myth
Please visit our website: www.militaryveteransparanormal.com for access to more information about this episode and others, as well as other research and investigations we've done.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
EVAN (00:05):
Welcome back to MVP's.
What the f***, what the f***,what the f***, what the f***?
Paranormal podcast, where wetalk about, well, everything the
paranormal encompasses.
So you ready?
Let's f***ing do this.
Oh s***, All right.
Welcome back.
Back everybody to anotherglorious episode.
(00:25):
Uh, this particular episode weare going to be discussing the
wolf men, the werewolves, dogmen lots of different names for
them throughout history and time.
So, without further ado, let'sfucking get into it fucking wolf
.
WES (00:43):
How house right there thank , you know what I mean, though,
yeah thank you.
TOMMY (00:50):
Thank you for that, I really appreciated that one
you're fucking welcome.
Oh man, all right.
EVAN (00:58):
So the wolves of where the werewolves.
So for those of you out therethat don't know or aren't aware,
werewolves are some sort ofmythological creatures, animals
that certain tales would tellthat humans would turn into a
wolf-like creature under thefull moon Possibly In some
(01:22):
stories and in other stories itjust can happen whenever or
other stories.
There's like a fucking ointmentor some shit you rub on your
body and you turn into a wolfyeah, or like uh, wolf pelts was
a thing.
TOMMY (01:34):
Um, if you put these wolf pelts on, you know you would
transform.
I think that was in the vikingsmaybe talked about that you
would don this, this magicalwolf health, and you would
transform into a wolf for fordays.
I think it was like seven daysor ten days.
That's a fucking badass.
EVAN (01:55):
That's why those I had no idea that vikings believed in
them yeah, vikings the greeks,the romans, yeah, they would
dawn on for strength uh ability,that kind of stuff yeah, the uh
, the theory and and or legendof so-called werewolves goes
back really far in history,actually, actually all the way
(02:17):
back to the epic of gilgamesh um, where it mentions a like a
witch or whatever that turns meninto wolves.
But it also goes into Greekmythology too, with the legend
of Lycaon I think that's how yousay his name.
TOMMY (02:33):
Yeah.
EVAN (02:35):
So those of you aren't aware of the Epic of Gilgamesh
is actually older than the Bible.
Like it's, it's an old ass book.
Is that how old it is?
TOMMY (02:43):
Yeah, old as fuck.
MELL (02:45):
Ass.
EVAN (02:45):
Ass.
Yeah, Bleep, bleep, bleep.
But yeah, even in Nordicfolklore, in the saga of the
Volsungs that's where the wolfpelts come from the father and
son had discovered those wolfpelts that would turn them into
wolves for like 10 days orsomething.
TOMMY (03:01):
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's it for like 10 days or
something.
EVAN (03:09):
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's it.
But uh, yeah, so it's, it's,it's.
In a lot of like ancienthistory, a lot of different
cultures and religions had theirdifferent theories and myths
and legends about, uh, people oryou know, mostly men turning
into wolves.
And you know, for you people,you know nitpickers out there in
the world that say, fuckingwerewolves aren't part of
cryptozoology.
Well, we don't really give ashit.
(03:29):
We're here talking about itbecause it's interesting.
Well, I mean, why wouldn't it?
MELL (03:34):
be?
EVAN (03:35):
yeah, I don't know, man, I'm curious just some nitpickers
out there that you know.
I guess some people want tothink of cryptozoology, of like
I guess more of on the on thelines of undiscovered creatures
on the planet, you know, or yetor theorized creature animals
like more just animals, notnecessarily like myths and
(03:56):
legends and stuff like that, butI feel like this could fall.
TOMMY (03:59):
It's a big gray area.
MELL (04:01):
I would think that it does count, because it is a fear.
You know, it's a quote, unquote, monster that's what I think,
man and fuck.
EVAN (04:09):
They're cool as shit to talk about yeah they are cool
MELL (04:13):
especially since you know we've discovered through
research in our in a previouspodcast about bill ramsey
werewolf.
Yeah, that was a wild show, thesouth end werewolf it.
EVAN (04:21):
Yeah, that was a wild show .
MELL (04:23):
The South End werewolf.
It's an actual thing.
TOMMY (04:27):
That still blows my mind.
I had no idea about that untilyou were talking about it, Mel.
MELL (04:32):
Yeah.
TOMMY (04:33):
It's an actual thing.
EVAN (04:34):
Yeah, there's lots of different.
I guess I don't know what youdiagnoses out there.
You know, if people like youhave the what's, the
hypertrichosis, where peoplegrow hair all over their body
and their face and they kind oflook like a wolf man.
TOMMY (04:48):
Like the ones you would find in the freak show.
Yeah, right there, fuck.
Yeah, yeah, those guys, thewolf.
MELL (04:54):
Yeah.
EVAN (04:55):
Is that a bearded lady?
MELL (04:56):
It is on the left of what I'm showing you.
That is the very firstdocumented family with
hypertrichosis.
They're from the Canary Islandsand that was back in 1648,
something like that yeah.
TOMMY (05:11):
It was a family of them or just one member of the family
?
MELL (05:15):
No, it was the first recorded case, Petrus Gonsalves
and there were multiple membersof his family that had
hypertrichosis.
EVAN (05:27):
That is trippy, just a whole family of hairy dudes.
TOMMY (05:30):
Or girls or both I mean I would assume there are at least
one female in that group.
EVAN (05:38):
And then the picture on the right.
Is that just a bearded lady?
MELL (05:42):
That is, it's a 17th century portrait of they called
it the glamorous bearded woman,and her name was Barbara Van
Beck.
EVAN (05:50):
Oh shit.
MELL (05:51):
Yes, she had a very long cascading beard.
She was actually born inBavaria in 1629.
And so she went on tour acrossEurope as part of for 30 years,
as part of like this high endtraveling show.
TOMMY (06:08):
That girl has a gorgeous beard.
I'm just going to say it.
EVAN (06:12):
She looks like the cowardly lion from Wizard of Oz.
WES (06:16):
Oh, you're going to strike the hell for that one.
MELL (06:18):
There's that.
WES (06:20):
I'm just putting it out there.
Evan's over there being likeman.
She's perfect.
MELL (06:28):
I just want to pet your fur, but I would guess that
that's why people would thinkthat I mean the werewolf
syndrome is basicallyhypertrichosis.
Where they look like it,they've got that excessive hair
growth and it's a different hairtype from what would be on
their head.
TOMMY (06:48):
I mean, is this still something that's happening today
?
MELL (06:52):
Yeah, wow that is wild.
Yeah, that's crazy.
TOMMY (06:57):
These are all current I don't know, man, if I looked
like that, I think the lastplace I would go is the forest.
EVAN (07:04):
I'm just going to say, oh, you almost do look like that.
What are you talking about?
WES (07:07):
what?
Oh, you're hairy like animal.
EVAN (07:12):
God, I be very good and you're missing, like a like, a
little portion there a littleportion, like my entire fucking
head, I mean yeah yeah
TOMMY (07:24):
I mean I look closer to that bearded lady no, so there's
also another isn't there.
EVAN (07:30):
There's a mental disorder yes called lycanthropy.
Yeah, and that's where peopleactually like believe that
they're a wolf yeah, they'vebeen transformed into some kind
of animal.
WES (07:42):
is the belief of the?
MELL (07:44):
There's two Clinical lycanthropy it is a psychiatric
syndrome where they believe theyturn into a wolf.
But zoanthropy clinicalzoanthropy is where the patient
has this belief of turning intoany kind of animal.
If we're talking aboutwerewolves, it would be the
clinical lycanthropy and thatwould be the issue of like the
(08:06):
Southern werewolf, where heliterally thought he was turning
into a werewolf.
EVAN (08:13):
That's crazy and I mean, what can cause that?
Is it like a form of, like somekind of psychosis or something
it is?
MELL (08:19):
It's a psychiatric disorder, Okay, so it can be
treatable with medications andstuff.
Just so you know that there'ssince I think it was they did
this study and they were able totrack approximately no, I think
they identified 43 actualreported cases of clinical
(08:43):
lycanthropy and cananthropy from1852 to 2020.
So it's extremely rare and ofthose cases that were identified
, there were 20 cases of full-onlycanthropy where they thought
they were werewolves.
EVAN (08:59):
Did they try to hurt people and like anything?
No shit.
MELL (09:03):
And then there were four cases of partial lycanthropy
where I think that's what theBill Bill Ramsey would fall into
, where it was going back andforth.
EVAN (09:14):
Okay.
MELL (09:15):
And then the most recent case, I believe, was in 2020 in
France.
The person was 12 and with theuse of medications.
EVAN (09:28):
So wait, this was a 12-year-old boy that thought he
was a werewolf.
MELL (09:34):
In France.
Well, actually he was in France, but his ethnicity was from the
Ivory Coast.
He's now in remission becausethe treatment is antipsychotic
drugs.
His diagnosis with thelycanthropy was a
schizophreniform disorder.
EVAN (09:51):
Oh shit, yeah, that's wild .
TOMMY (09:54):
So the ones that legitimately think they're
werewolves right.
How do they even explain tothem like, hey, this is a mental
condition that you're goingthrough, like you're not
actually a werewolf.
MELL (10:10):
Well, that's with the use of antipsychotic drugs, so when
they're in a, you know, a morecognitive state.
TOMMY (10:20):
All right, so it's in and out.
It's in and out.
WES (10:23):
When you say remission, do you mean like their fur starts
dissipating?
MELL (10:28):
No, so that's two different things.
So the, the hypertrichosis isthe one where they look very
hairy, but with the lycanthropy,that's where they don't
necessarily have the hair butthey think that they are.
So like with bill ramsey, heliterally thought he was seeing
(10:50):
his hands turn into claws and hewas attacking people and crazy
trying to eat them.
I think there's ever been a caseof those two things coming
together in one individual notthat I could find not that I, oh
, so you, you looked yeah,because we had covered this,
(11:12):
because the warrens claimed thatbill ramsey was possessed and
they did an exorcism on himwhich they claim cured him.
EVAN (11:22):
But yeah, we all know how that went.
MELL (11:28):
Yeah, all right.
TOMMY (11:29):
So, aside from the medical conditions, right
Werewolves.
The stories of werewolves.
EVAN (11:37):
Yeah, man, throughout history there have been several
different, several occurrencesof alleged werewolves, but it
turns out most of these werethat I've found, that I've
looked into, were actually justserial killers.
What trials and stuff they hadover there in, uh, in all of
(12:02):
that part of europe they, in1521, there was these two french
guys, pierre bergotte andmichael verdun, that had
allegedly, you know, swore somesort of allegiance to the devil.
They were out in the woods onenight, you know, they met these,
these devilish figures, metthem and they swore allegiance
to the devil and whatnot.
(12:23):
but they gave them these, thisointment that they would put on
them, on their bodies, thatwould turn them into wolves,
into werewolves it rubs thelotion on its skin or else it
gets the hose again and theywent on a basically a killing
spree for like a while years,were killing people, innocent
(12:44):
people, and under the influenceof this so-called werewolf
ointment, um, and eventuallythey got tried for it in 1521
and they confessed to brutallymurdering, you know, several
people and children, and theywere both burned to death at the
stake because of it was thatpart of the werewolf trials?
MELL (13:03):
yes yes there was a werewolf trials?
Yeah, prior to the witch trials.
TOMMY (13:08):
There were werewolf trials that took place in europe
from like the 15 I think it waslike the 1500s through the
1700s and of all these peopleyeah, all all sorts of people.
If you read into it, you knowmost of most of what it was was,
you know, the underprivileged,the riffraff, the, um, the
(13:30):
mentally ill people.
They would, you know, snatchthem up and really it was just a
redirection of of all theissues that were going on, you
know, with like hunger and lackof I don't even know what you
would call it.
You know just just badscenarios and situations that
(13:51):
were happening back then andthey were the, the powers that
be were looking for something toblame.
So you know they were blamingwerewolves and they went through
a whole series of trials.
And it's crazy, if you readinto it, because the people that
tried for this, you know youcouldn't fight it there was.
There was no good way to fightagainst it most, of them were
(14:13):
the witch trials yeah, same samething, and most of them would
admit to being werewolves afterthey were tortured.
But the craziest part of it isthe executions that they did
were more brutal than the crimesthey committed.
You know, not to say that itwasn't necessary, but some of
(14:35):
these people, man, had liketheir skin removed with hot
pinchers, like peeled their skinoff.
Holy shit, yeah, man, they'dremove them, uh, their body
parts, one by one, you know, andthen end with their head.
One of the ones that happenedin in France, uh, they removed
all his skin and then worked upfrom his feet, removing you know
(14:58):
portions of his body all theway to his head, and then they
took his head and put it on apike and on the pike had a
carving of a wolf and then theyput it out there.
You know, it's like a warningto other people, like don't be
werewolves that's ridiculous.
Yeah, it was it was fuckingbrutal man.
Brutal just like the witchtrials.
I had no idea I had no idea.
MELL (15:21):
I knew that um there was a guy named Peter Stump.
EVAN (15:28):
Stub.
MELL (15:29):
Stub.
Was it Stub or Stump?
EVAN (15:32):
I think Stub, I think Peter Stub in Germany.
MELL (15:34):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, he was the werewolf of Bedburg.
EVAN (15:38):
Yeah, he was eventually blamed for all of those gruesome
killings and stuff out there.
MELL (15:43):
He was accused of werewolfery.
If that's a word, Show yourmouth.
I'm sorry.
TOMMY (15:52):
You're just coming off stupid.
MELL (15:53):
I'm coming off as stupid.
WES (15:56):
Mel, you're a bunch of werewolfery, right now.
TOMMY (15:59):
Well, werewolfery Instead .
WES (16:03):
of getting in trouble.
You guys be careful about yourwerewolferies.
Better stop with all thatwerewolfery.
Instead of getting in trouble,you guys be careful about your
werewolferies.
TOMMY (16:07):
Better stop with all that werewolfery.
MELL (16:11):
Find your head on a pike and and he had the biggest
werewolf trial in in 1589.
EVAN (16:22):
Yeah.
MELL (16:22):
And then he was stretched on a rack before.
That was before his torturestarted.
And then he confessed that, youknow, he'd been practicing
witchcraft since he was 12 andthat the devil gave him a magic
girdle or something, and so hewas able to metamorphose into
(16:44):
the likeness of a devouring wolf.
EVAN (16:46):
He had, like some, enchanted belt that gave him the
power to turn into a wolf.
TOMMY (16:51):
And he admitted that prior to torture or after
torture, yeah go figure yeah.
MELL (16:59):
But for 25 years he had allegedly been a quote
insatiable bloodsucker whogorged on the flesh of goats,
sheep, women and children tokilling and and eating 14
(17:26):
children and two pregnant women.
Who's?
TOMMY (17:27):
that he.
MELL (17:27):
He said he ripped the fetus out and ate their hearts
panting hot and raw.
That's a quote, and he laterdescribed them as dainty morsels
.
One of the 14 children that heconfessed to eating was his own
son get the fuck out I'm deadserious.
He said he went out into thesun with his son, into the woods
, turned into a werewolf and atehim cold-blooded that's some
(17:52):
fucked up shit.
That's fucking brutal heallegedly also had an incestuous
relationship with his daughter,which I don't think it was
incestuous as more he forcedhimself upon her, but she
actually was sentenced to diewith him.
What?
Yeah, he was executed onHalloween 1589, alongside his
(18:16):
daughter and a mistress.
What they did was they put himon this wheel side his daughter
and a mistress.
What they did was they put himon this wheel, and so the flesh
was torn from his body in 10places with those red hot
pincers, like you were saying,and then it was followed by his
arms and legs, and then hislimbs were broken with the blunt
side of an axe before he wasbeheaded, and then his body
(18:39):
burned on a pyre.
His daughter and his mistresswere flayed and then strangled
and then burned next to his bodyyeah, I am holy shit, that is
fucking brutal that is apunishment.
Doesn't tell you don't be awerewolf.
I don't know what does.
TOMMY (19:00):
Werewolfery.
MELL (19:01):
Yeah, werewolfery, churlish Frowned upon Churlish
Churlish.
TOMMY (19:12):
God damn man, Don't be a werewolf back then, you know
yeah.
EVAN (19:15):
Probably a bad idea.
You're going to have a bad time.
MELL (19:18):
Yeah, when we're going to werewolfery, lycanthropy is a
real thing.
EVAN (19:25):
Yeah.
MELL (19:25):
Now they don't transition into actual werewolves, but what
they see when a person who doeshave lycanthropy is like Bill
Ramsey was describing himself.
He looked at his hands and hesaid he could see the claws, and
so his hands would physicallycurl.
Because, he was in his mind, hewas and so I could see my claws
(19:49):
to your toes, yeah, so my claws, my hands.
I've seen your toenails, bro,so are you checking out my
toenails?
WES (20:01):
this is you could be a werewolf hey, this is not a
public place to be talking aboutthis talking about you'd be
checking out my feet, don't?
EVAN (20:10):
let.
MELL (20:10):
This is the perfect nonsense place because they're
in their mind, they're seeingthis change, they've convinced
themselves, they feel the painof the transformation.
WES (20:23):
Then, physiologically, they start to behave and modify
their body and hunch over as ifthey are now does this have to
go with and I know this is goingto be like way out in left
field, but you know, the peoplewho dress up like dogs and stuff
like that would just be part ofthat situation where you think
you are something but you'renegative no, you're talking
(20:44):
about furries.
You're talking about furries andI'm not just talking about
furries, but like there's thisdude that just like spent 26 000
to look like a collie, oh yeahand he gets walked around and
all that stuff.
And the only reason why I saythat is because, like the whole,
what is this?
Lichen, dioptery, whatever youwant to call it, lycanthropy,
(21:06):
werewolfery, but you're gettingtransformed into an animal and
they behave like an animal.
So wouldn't that fall in thesame realm?
MELL (21:14):
Well, there's a difference ?
Because I don't think so,because clinical lycanthropy and
what they're, they have like asort of almost like a body
dysmorphia kind of Well, I guess.
And now you've got me.
EVAN (21:29):
Damn.
These are the questions.
WES (21:31):
Hmm, because to me that follows right into that line.
You transformed yourself intoan animal.
You believe, from this time tothis time, that you are this
animal.
MELL (21:41):
You can keep me cooped up in here.
Okay, I am a peacock, you gottalet me fly that's very.
You make a good point I thinkthis is a choice, though no,
because they're making a choice.
WES (21:53):
It doesn't say it just says the illnesses in which a person
believes he or she has beentransformed into an animal.
Such persons behave like ananimal.
That's the whole definition ofit.
MELL (22:06):
That's different than species dysphoria, because
species dysphoria is more of theperson.
They know that they're human,but they have the desire to
become a non-human have thedesire to become a non-human.
EVAN (22:26):
So, anyways, um, where werewolves?
Um, apparently there is somemodern day sightings as well of
werewolves.
Oh yeah, stop it.
Yeah, that's what they say.
Um, the one such is, I guess,one of the most famous and
well-known ones, is uh, beengoing on for quite some time,
starting in the late 1930s, andthe most recent sighting,
somewhere in the 2011 area, iscalled the beast of Bray road.
TOMMY (22:49):
Yeah.
EVAN (22:50):
Hell yeah, I knew you were going there in Wisconsin.
MELL (22:54):
And I have no idea what you're talking about.
Do tell.
Seriously, you never found anynever heard of when you were
doing your your research before.
EVAN (23:02):
It's an interesting story, wesley.
If you know more about it,please do tell, because I don't
know a whole lot about thisstory.
TOMMY (23:09):
The Brairie Road.
It's similar to the same stuffthat was going on in Michigan
right across the lake, with theDog man in Michigan man.
EVAN (23:18):
All right, well, let's talk about the wisconsin one
first, and then we'll get tomichigan.
The beast of bray road is, uh,started with this guy named.
This man don't know his fullname, all they would know him by
is shackleman.
So, uh, one night, shacklemanspots this wolf man, you know,
standing about six to seven feettall, you know, just digging
some shit up over there in afield.
(23:39):
Shackleman was terrified, ofcourse, but also quite intrigued
, and uh, he so he decided tocome back to the same spot where
he saw it the first time andthat, you know, a couple days
later and surprisingly, he sawthe same beast again.
Apparently, this beast, thiswerewolf, um, spoke to him in
(23:59):
some unidentifiable language and, uh, I don't really know a
whole lot of the story, where itgoes from there, but it
continues to go on where the,this werewolf has been cited by
dozens of people over the years,over the decades, and one woman
claiming that it's jumped up onthe back of her car and all
kind of crazy shit has beenhappening.
(24:19):
What, yeah?
So I don't know what's up withthe shackleman guy.
TOMMY (24:25):
I don't know a whole lot of the story about him and what
was all about this beastspeaking to him and shit, but um
a lot of people have claimed tosee it and claim to have
interactions with it over theyears I was saying that, that
whole Shackleman encounter, whenthat happened, when he was
(24:45):
going through the field to goinvestigate this
suspicious-looking beast, if youmay.
It had a sleek, hairy body, oversix feet tall canine face, all
of that.
As he approached him, though,he got this smell of rotting
(25:09):
meat, you know, or that foulsmell Same thing people talk
about with their Bigfootencounters, you know, they get
that weird strange smell, footencounters, you know, they get
that that weird strange smell.
Um, but as he approached the,the beast, yeah, he said
something that was indescribable, like he couldn't even describe
what this thing was saying.
He was talking, and then itstood all the way upright,
(25:34):
turned around and ran off intothe bushes.
Now, if you look at, like, howhollywood has betrayed
werewolves and such, knowing youknow what they are air quotes
are right um, why wouldn't thisthing have just attacked this
dude man, like?
Why did they turn and run?
(25:55):
You know what I mean?
MELL (25:57):
Well, I found a little more on Mr Mark Shackleman.
TOMMY (26:02):
Oh, you found his first name.
Yeah, his name was Mark.
MELL (26:05):
Shackleman.
He was the night watchman atthe Catholic convent St Coletta.
Do you guys know why?
I know St Coletta.
EVAN (26:14):
No.
MELL (26:14):
That's where Rosemary Kennedy was sent after Joseph
Kennedy.
Her father had her lobotomizedin 1941.
TOMMY (26:22):
Same place, Damn really.
MELL (26:24):
Mm-hmm, interesting, it's the same convent.
EVAN (26:26):
Small world.
MELL (26:28):
Yeah, so the first time when it ran probably because he
was startled the next morningthen he went and told his wife
about the creature.
He said its thumbs and littlefingers looked shriveled, and
then so he went back to themound where he said it's thumbs
and little fingers lookshriveled.
And then so he went back to themound where he saw it and
discovered raking marks in thedirt.
And then, when it turnedtonight he went back towards
(26:50):
that mound and that's when hesaid the creature was covered
with darker black hair and likeShackleman.
Mark Shackleman was isn't wasin his mid th30s and he was a
former heavyweight boxer.
So he's pretty fucking he, hewas, he was pretty big and so he
said a fucking beast then yeah,he said.
(27:12):
He prayed to god to save him andstarted saying prayers out loud
and then it turned and walkedaway.
For a long time I stood therethat bad smell hung in the air
and then I said another prayerof thankfulness and I never saw
that thing again or anythingeven like it.
He called it a hell hound, hesaid.
(27:33):
He heard the creature sayGadara, which resembles Gadara,
which is a site mentioned in theBible where Jesus exercised a
demon-possessed man.
TOMMY (27:44):
Why would he say that?
MELL (27:46):
I don't know.
Gadara is where there was ademon-possessed man that was
coming out of the tombs, comingfrom the tombs in ancient Judah,
and so Jesus exercised thatdemon-possessed man, that
demon-possessed man, and if youthink about what story you just
told me, it's almost similar tolike the creature had been
clawing at a burial mound.
EVAN (28:05):
That's fucking wild.
That's crazy.
I'm glad you pulled that up,because I did not have any of
that information.
MELL (28:11):
Well, you know, I am a master of finding random bits of
information.
TOMMY (28:16):
That's one of the things you do.
Yeah, that's my job, job, youknow because you don't a lot,
but that's one of the things youdo yes I, I have a lot of I
don't yeah the list is long, sowe know about the mr wisconsin
and shackleman.
EVAN (28:33):
Now, what's up with this michigan thing?
All right, the dog man to thisinformation yeah the dog man of
mich.
TOMMY (28:40):
You know it's similar to what's going on in Wisconsin and
there are sightings.
I think the last sighting ofhim was 2015, maybe, but anyways
, the first sighting was in 1887.
And there were a couple loggersout lumberjacks, if you will
(29:01):
out doing their daily duties.
They spotted this, you knowseven foot tall, dog-like
creature gazing upon them asthey worked, and when they
stopped and looked at it, youknow it turned and ran um.
After that, there was a bunch ofbunch of other encounters that
took place, one of which was aman fishing along the Muskegon
(29:23):
River and he was attacked by apack of wild dogs and he also
had a shotgun on him at the time, while he was fishing, because
this is the early 1900s and Iguess that's just what you did.
But he fired the shotgun in theair and scared away the entire
pack of dogs except for one, andthis one dog stood up on its
(29:46):
hind legs and stared at him.
And this is a dog, you knowthis isn't like a werewolf or a
bigfoot or anything, just anormal looking wild dog but it
stood up on its hind legs andstared into this man's soul,
where he fired at the dog again.
The dog dropped down and tookoff and ran.
I can't think of a lot of timeswhere a dog has just bowed up
(30:09):
to me like that, so I imaginethat was a pretty crazy scenario
that played out.
MELL (30:15):
So multiple people have seen this.
TOMMY (30:17):
Yeah, yeah, no, so much, in fact, that there is a song
about the Michigan Dogman.
It's an actual song, andsomewhere in the Northwoods
darkness.
EVAN (30:29):
A creature walks upright.
WES (30:33):
And the best advice you may ever get is don't go out at
night.
TOMMY (30:45):
Yeah, this is.
It broadcasted over the radiosand everything.
I think that happened in likethe early 90s.
Maybe is when the song came out1987.
MELL (30:54):
It was supposed to be part of an april fool's day joke
there you go oh wow, that's it Ijust see now that someone
recently, as recent as 2019someone called on star you know
that thing in the car.
Yeah, yeah, I'm familiar theyreported that dog man ran in
front of the car and flippedtheir car over what?
EVAN (31:14):
holy shit.
There's also dog men sightingsin like pennsylvania too.
Um Same style kind of creaturesix to seven feet tall, weighing
anywhere from three to 500pounds, stands up on hind legs,
dog face covered in hair.
MELL (31:30):
So would you say that's the same thing as a werewolf?
TOMMY (31:33):
I mean that would be my guess.
Kind of what it sounds likethat Pennsylvania stuff.
You're talking about Evan, thatwhole Maine, how Myraves,
that's a big story.
EVAN (31:45):
Yeah, I'm not aware of that.
I've heard of the PalmyraWolves, but I haven't looked
into it too much.
TOMMY (31:52):
I seen it.
Did you guys ever watch thatshow?
Paranormal Witness at any pointin time?
It's like that reenactmentstyle show.
Witness at any point in time.
It's like that reenactmentstyle show.
Season three is when I firstheard about the palmyra wolves
and that was on that show.
That that's a wild story.
It was basically this uh, these, these, this couple had bought
(32:13):
this ranch house out in themiddle of nowhere in palmyra
main.
I'm assuming this is the middleof nowhere.
You, palmyra Maine.
I'm assuming this is the middleof nowhere.
They had their evening routineof sitting on the porch drinking
coffee and they would just sitthere and talk about their day
or whatever it was that theytalked about.
One evening they were sittingon their porch drinking coffee,
(32:37):
talking, and there was a lowmist that was kind of settling
over their, their property.
They had a big field and a barndriveway that led up to it, but
it's it's back in the deeptimber, you know, and as they're
sitting there, I think his wifementioned the fact like there's
(32:58):
no crickets tonight, you know.
And then they stopped and theylistened and there was nothing.
It was just a totally silentevening and she had this
flashlight she kept out there onthe porch.
So she shined around the field,you know, out along the fence
line and all of that, and therewas nothing out there.
(33:19):
And I guess her husband hadthis eerie feeling like we need
to go in the house.
So he got up and he's trying toget her to go in the house.
She doesn't want to go, she'slike let's just sit here and
drink our coffee.
And they heard something off inthe distance, some sort of
rustling noise.
So they grabbed the flashlightand they started panning the
field again, and out in thefield they seen these three
(33:45):
creatures about midway on thisfield this field's like 200
yards deep, you know and therewere three of them, and then
there were four of them, andthen there were five of them.
And he's looking at her likewhat the hell are those?
She's looking at him the sameway.
He's like I don't know, maybethey're bears, you know, like I
don't know, maybe they're bears,you know, like they honestly
(34:06):
didn't know what they were.
Then, out of nowhere, thosefive creatures just started to
bull rush the house, likerunning so fast that they
couldn't keep the flashlight onthem.
So they did him out, ran backinto the house and these
creatures circled their houseall night long.
(34:26):
He actually made, I think, twoattempts to go out into the barn
, which is where he kept hisguns.
No, it's odd, it's weird.
I don't keep my guns in a barn,it doesn't make any sense His
wife.
she wasn't a.
WES (34:44):
She might not have wanted the guns inside the house.
TOMMY (34:46):
And they had kids, you know.
So he built a strong box andthat's where he kept his guns,
was out in the barn.
But he made two differentattempts to go out there and he
was surrounded by thesecreatures that stood up on their
hind legs.
You know which bears do, but Ican't think of a a time when
(35:08):
bears had done anything likethis, and if you got that close
to a bear you would know it wasa bear.
EVAN (35:15):
They don't run on their hind legs either no, they don't.
TOMMY (35:19):
But they called 9-1-1 that night and, um, they didn't
send the police because theythought they were pranking them,
like their story sounded toofar-fetched for them to actually
send police out there,allegedly, you know what I mean.
But they hunkered down in theirhouse that night while these
(35:39):
creatures circled the house,they scratched on the building,
um so on and so forth.
But pretty, pretty trippy storyif you, uh, if you want to read
something fascinating.
MELL (35:50):
Anyways, well, I I appreciate this yeah, man.
EVAN (35:55):
So yeah, werewolves been around for a long fuck a time.
People been talking about thatshit for thousands of years
actually yeah, all right.
WES (36:03):
So I'm gonna go around the table real quick.
Do you believe in lichens orwerewolves?
EVAN (36:09):
uh, mel no evan and probably not no wes still fun.
TOMMY (36:16):
I'm gonna say probably not as well, but man, they are
fucking cool right what aboutyou, tommy?
MELL (36:23):
do you believe in them?
WES (36:24):
no, but I do believe, like, like I've told you before, all
legends had to start fromsomewhere and we got a pretty
pretty good uh synopsis of thisone.
Like we saw people with hair,uh, brought it up before about
the yes, but I brought it upbefore about how it could be
misconstrued inside a woodsetting.
TOMMY (36:45):
Absolutely um, you know, but why the fuck are those
people in the woods?
WES (36:50):
you, some people didn't want them within the villages
themselves.
MELL (36:56):
Listen if you have hyperkytro, hyper chytrosis,
that's not it.
TOMMY (37:01):
If you're exceptionally hairy, don't stay the fuck out
of the timber.
You know, if anything back,then I would want those people
around think about the extrabody warmth that's coming off of
all that fur.
You know, just curl up at thefoot of my bed, you know, keep
my feet cozy I mean, that is,that is one way, basically what
(37:28):
he says he wants to.
WES (37:29):
He wants to fucking taxi germ in this motherfucker and
have him sprawled out on thefloor I think they're made like
a big bear skin rug, but it'sjust like a hairy dude.
TOMMY (37:39):
That's fucked up, man.
That's that's fucked up.
EVAN (37:44):
I'm just gonna say that's not where I tended to go this
route, but okay, okay, fairenough there was like a king
that took one of like some kidthat had hypertrichosis and like
kept him as a pet as a pet likehe'd feed him scraps and yeah,
yeah like he was his pet.
TOMMY (37:58):
We think he nabbed him.
Do you think he changed hisname?
EVAN (38:01):
I'm hoping like max or something.
WES (38:03):
It's probably max come here , wes, wes goddamn fucking burn
got burned by jesus.
TOMMY (38:11):
Look at that.
EVAN (38:12):
I found him you found it, you about the very first family,
yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
MELL (38:27):
Petrus Consolvus.
TOMMY (38:28):
Yeah, no way.
Same family?
Yeah, no fucking way.
MELL (38:32):
The man in the woods, and he was part of the court of King
Henry II of France.
That's the guy, yes.
France, that's the guy, yes.
And so henry king henry offrance, when um gonzalves was 10
(38:54):
.
EVAN (38:54):
He was sent there as a gift.
Here's this little hairy kid.
Treat him well.
God damn what the fuck.
Some other rich fuck took thissuper hairy kid and was like
here you go.
TOMMY (39:07):
Here's your new pet king of france do you think he told
him it was a boy, or do youthink he told him it was an
animal?
MELL (39:14):
he.
No, I mean he, he was, he was,he talked.
You know, it wasn't like hewent there and went wharf, but
he ended up getting marriedthere, and even though he was
living and acting as a nobleman,his hairy kids were not
considered fully human in theeyes of the other people, and so
(39:37):
they were also gifted to othernobles as a sort of court pet.
What Damn.
Humans are so fucked up, so itis.
TOMMY (39:48):
That's ridiculous.
MELL (39:50):
It is believed that the marriage between him and his
wife, lady Catherine, may havepartially inspired that whole
fairy tale Beauty and the Beast.
TOMMY (40:02):
No, because of the fur.
MELL (40:04):
Mm-hmm.
He died in 1618 at like 81years old in Rome.
The last known record of himwas he was listed among those
who had attended his hairygrandson's christening Sorry,
(40:24):
Just had to slide that one offin there Awesome.
EVAN (40:28):
On that note, who wants to take us out of here tonight?
TOMMY (40:32):
I fucking got this.
I got this, bro Werewolfery, ifyou are excessively hairy,
don't be a fucking dirtbag.
Werewolfery has no place in theforest.
Oh yeah, hold on, go fuckyourself.
EVAN (40:47):
Good night everybody.
Welcome back to MVP's.
What the f***, what the f***,what the f***, what the f***?
Paranormal podcast, where wetalk about, well, everything the
paranormal encompasses.
So you ready?
Let's f***ing do this.
Oh s***, All right.
Welcome back.
Back everybody to anotherglorious episode.
(00:25):
Uh, this particular episode weare going to be discussing the
wolf men, the werewolves, dogmen lots of different names for
them throughout history and time.
So, without further ado, let'sfucking get into it fucking wolf
.
WES (00:43):
How house right there thank , you know what I mean, though,
yeah thank you.
TOMMY (00:50):
Thank you for that, I really appreciated that one
you're fucking welcome.
Oh man, all right.
EVAN (00:58):
So the wolves of where the werewolves.
So for those of you out therethat don't know or aren't aware,
werewolves are some sort ofmythological creatures, animals
that certain tales would tellthat humans would turn into a
wolf-like creature under thefull moon Possibly In some
(01:22):
stories and in other stories itjust can happen whenever or
other stories.
There's like a fucking ointmentor some shit you rub on your
body and you turn into a wolfyeah, or like uh, wolf pelts was
a thing.
TOMMY (01:34):
Um, if you put these wolf pelts on, you know you would
transform.
I think that was in the vikingsmaybe talked about that you
would don this, this magicalwolf health, and you would
transform into a wolf for fordays.
I think it was like seven daysor ten days.
That's a fucking badass.
EVAN (01:55):
That's why those I had no idea that vikings believed in
them yeah, vikings the greeks,the romans, yeah, they would
dawn on for strength uh ability,that kind of stuff yeah, the uh
, the theory and and or legendof so-called werewolves goes
back really far in history,actually, actually all the way
(02:17):
back to the epic of gilgamesh um, where it mentions a like a
witch or whatever that turns meninto wolves.
But it also goes into Greekmythology too, with the legend
of Lycaon I think that's how yousay his name.
TOMMY (02:33):
Yeah.
EVAN (02:35):
So those of you aren't aware of the Epic of Gilgamesh
is actually older than the Bible.
Like it's, it's an old ass book.
Is that how old it is?
TOMMY (02:43):
Yeah, old as fuck.
MELL (02:45):
Ass.
EVAN (02:45):
Ass.
Yeah, Bleep, bleep, bleep.
But yeah, even in Nordicfolklore, in the saga of the
Volsungs that's where the wolfpelts come from the father and
son had discovered those wolfpelts that would turn them into
wolves for like 10 days orsomething.
TOMMY (03:01):
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's it for like 10 days or
something.
EVAN (03:09):
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's it.
But uh, yeah, so it's, it's,it's.
In a lot of like ancienthistory, a lot of different
cultures and religions had theirdifferent theories and myths
and legends about, uh, people oryou know, mostly men turning
into wolves.
And you know, for you people,you know nitpickers out there in
the world that say, fuckingwerewolves aren't part of
cryptozoology.
Well, we don't really give ashit.
(03:29):
We're here talking about itbecause it's interesting.
Well, I mean, why wouldn't it?
MELL (03:34):
be?
EVAN (03:35):
yeah, I don't know, man, I'm curious just some nitpickers
out there that you know.
I guess some people want tothink of cryptozoology, of like
I guess more of on the on thelines of undiscovered creatures
on the planet, you know, or yetor theorized creature animals
like more just animals, notnecessarily like myths and
(03:56):
legends and stuff like that, butI feel like this could fall.
TOMMY (03:59):
It's a big gray area.
MELL (04:01):
I would think that it does count, because it is a fear.
You know, it's a quote, unquote, monster that's what I think,
man and fuck.
EVAN (04:09):
They're cool as shit to talk about yeah they are cool
MELL (04:13):
especially since you know we've discovered through
research in our in a previouspodcast about bill ramsey
werewolf.
Yeah, that was a wild show, thesouth end werewolf it.
EVAN (04:21):
Yeah, that was a wild show .
MELL (04:23):
The South End werewolf.
It's an actual thing.
TOMMY (04:27):
That still blows my mind.
I had no idea about that untilyou were talking about it, Mel.
MELL (04:32):
Yeah.
TOMMY (04:33):
It's an actual thing.
EVAN (04:34):
Yeah, there's lots of different.
I guess I don't know what youdiagnoses out there.
You know, if people like youhave the what's, the
hypertrichosis, where peoplegrow hair all over their body
and their face and they kind oflook like a wolf man.
TOMMY (04:48):
Like the ones you would find in the freak show.
Yeah, right there, fuck.
Yeah, yeah, those guys, thewolf.
MELL (04:54):
Yeah.
EVAN (04:55):
Is that a bearded lady?
MELL (04:56):
It is on the left of what I'm showing you.
That is the very firstdocumented family with
hypertrichosis.
They're from the Canary Islandsand that was back in 1648,
something like that yeah.
TOMMY (05:11):
It was a family of them or just one member of the family
?
MELL (05:15):
No, it was the first recorded case, Petrus Gonsalves
and there were multiple membersof his family that had
hypertrichosis.
EVAN (05:27):
That is trippy, just a whole family of hairy dudes.
TOMMY (05:30):
Or girls or both I mean I would assume there are at least
one female in that group.
EVAN (05:38):
And then the picture on the right.
Is that just a bearded lady?
MELL (05:42):
That is, it's a 17th century portrait of they called
it the glamorous bearded woman,and her name was Barbara Van
Beck.
EVAN (05:50):
Oh shit.
MELL (05:51):
Yes, she had a very long cascading beard.
She was actually born inBavaria in 1629.
And so she went on tour acrossEurope as part of for 30 years,
as part of like this high endtraveling show.
TOMMY (06:08):
That girl has a gorgeous beard.
I'm just going to say it.
EVAN (06:12):
She looks like the cowardly lion from Wizard of Oz.
WES (06:16):
Oh, you're going to strike the hell for that one.
MELL (06:18):
There's that.
WES (06:20):
I'm just putting it out there.
Evan's over there being likeman.
She's perfect.
MELL (06:28):
I just want to pet your fur, but I would guess that
that's why people would thinkthat I mean the werewolf
syndrome is basicallyhypertrichosis.
Where they look like it,they've got that excessive hair
growth and it's a different hairtype from what would be on
their head.
TOMMY (06:48):
I mean, is this still something that's happening today
?
MELL (06:52):
Yeah, wow that is wild.
Yeah, that's crazy.
TOMMY (06:57):
These are all current I don't know, man, if I looked
like that, I think the lastplace I would go is the forest.
EVAN (07:04):
I'm just going to say, oh, you almost do look like that.
What are you talking about?
WES (07:07):
what?
Oh, you're hairy like animal.
EVAN (07:12):
God, I be very good and you're missing, like a like, a
little portion there a littleportion, like my entire fucking
head, I mean yeah yeah
TOMMY (07:24):
I mean I look closer to that bearded lady no, so there's
also another isn't there.
EVAN (07:30):
There's a mental disorder yes called lycanthropy.
Yeah, and that's where peopleactually like believe that
they're a wolf yeah, they'vebeen transformed into some kind
of animal.
WES (07:42):
is the belief of the?
MELL (07:44):
There's two Clinical lycanthropy it is a psychiatric
syndrome where they believe theyturn into a wolf.
But zoanthropy clinicalzoanthropy is where the patient
has this belief of turning intoany kind of animal.
If we're talking aboutwerewolves, it would be the
clinical lycanthropy and thatwould be the issue of like the
(08:06):
Southern werewolf, where heliterally thought he was turning
into a werewolf.
EVAN (08:13):
That's crazy and I mean, what can cause that?
Is it like a form of, like somekind of psychosis or something
it is?
MELL (08:19):
It's a psychiatric disorder, Okay, so it can be
treatable with medications andstuff.
Just so you know that there'ssince I think it was they did
this study and they were able totrack approximately no, I think
they identified 43 actualreported cases of clinical
(08:43):
lycanthropy and cananthropy from1852 to 2020.
So it's extremely rare and ofthose cases that were identified
, there were 20 cases of full-onlycanthropy where they thought
they were werewolves.
EVAN (08:59):
Did they try to hurt people and like anything?
No shit.
MELL (09:03):
And then there were four cases of partial lycanthropy
where I think that's what theBill Bill Ramsey would fall into
, where it was going back andforth.
EVAN (09:14):
Okay.
MELL (09:15):
And then the most recent case, I believe, was in 2020 in
France.
The person was 12 and with theuse of medications.
EVAN (09:28):
So wait, this was a 12-year-old boy that thought he
was a werewolf.
MELL (09:34):
In France.
Well, actually he was in France, but his ethnicity was from the
Ivory Coast.
He's now in remission becausethe treatment is antipsychotic
drugs.
His diagnosis with thelycanthropy was a
schizophreniform disorder.
EVAN (09:51):
Oh shit, yeah, that's wild .
TOMMY (09:54):
So the ones that legitimately think they're
werewolves right.
How do they even explain tothem like, hey, this is a mental
condition that you're goingthrough, like you're not
actually a werewolf.
MELL (10:10):
Well, that's with the use of antipsychotic drugs, so when
they're in a, you know, a morecognitive state.
TOMMY (10:20):
All right, so it's in and out.
It's in and out.
WES (10:23):
When you say remission, do you mean like their fur starts
dissipating?
MELL (10:28):
No, so that's two different things.
So the, the hypertrichosis isthe one where they look very
hairy, but with the lycanthropy,that's where they don't
necessarily have the hair butthey think that they are.
So like with bill ramsey, heliterally thought he was seeing
(10:50):
his hands turn into claws and hewas attacking people and crazy
trying to eat them.
I think there's ever been a caseof those two things coming
together in one individual notthat I could find not that I, oh
, so you, you looked yeah,because we had covered this,
(11:12):
because the warrens claimed thatbill ramsey was possessed and
they did an exorcism on himwhich they claim cured him.
EVAN (11:22):
But yeah, we all know how that went.
MELL (11:28):
Yeah, all right.
TOMMY (11:29):
So, aside from the medical conditions, right
Werewolves.
The stories of werewolves.
EVAN (11:37):
Yeah, man, throughout history there have been several
different, several occurrencesof alleged werewolves, but it
turns out most of these werethat I've found, that I've
looked into, were actually justserial killers.
What trials and stuff they hadover there in, uh, in all of
(12:02):
that part of europe they, in1521, there was these two french
guys, pierre bergotte andmichael verdun, that had
allegedly, you know, swore somesort of allegiance to the devil.
They were out in the woods onenight, you know, they met these,
these devilish figures, metthem and they swore allegiance
to the devil and whatnot.
(12:23):
but they gave them these, thisointment that they would put on
them, on their bodies, thatwould turn them into wolves,
into werewolves it rubs thelotion on its skin or else it
gets the hose again and theywent on a basically a killing
spree for like a while years,were killing people, innocent
(12:44):
people, and under the influenceof this so-called werewolf
ointment, um, and eventuallythey got tried for it in 1521
and they confessed to brutallymurdering, you know, several
people and children, and theywere both burned to death at the
stake because of it was thatpart of the werewolf trials?
MELL (13:03):
yes yes there was a werewolf trials?
Yeah, prior to the witch trials.
TOMMY (13:08):
There were werewolf trials that took place in europe
from like the 15 I think it waslike the 1500s through the
1700s and of all these peopleyeah, all all sorts of people.
If you read into it, you knowmost of most of what it was was,
you know, the underprivileged,the riffraff, the, um, the
(13:30):
mentally ill people.
They would, you know, snatchthem up and really it was just a
redirection of of all theissues that were going on, you
know, with like hunger and lackof I don't even know what you
would call it.
You know just just badscenarios and situations that
(13:51):
were happening back then andthey were the, the powers that
be were looking for something toblame.
So you know they were blamingwerewolves and they went through
a whole series of trials.
And it's crazy, if you readinto it, because the people that
tried for this, you know youcouldn't fight it there was.
There was no good way to fightagainst it most, of them were
(14:13):
the witch trials yeah, same samething, and most of them would
admit to being werewolves afterthey were tortured.
But the craziest part of it isthe executions that they did
were more brutal than the crimesthey committed.
You know, not to say that itwasn't necessary, but some of
(14:35):
these people, man, had liketheir skin removed with hot
pinchers, like peeled their skinoff.
Holy shit, yeah, man, they'dremove them, uh, their body
parts, one by one, you know, andthen end with their head.
One of the ones that happenedin in France, uh, they removed
all his skin and then worked upfrom his feet, removing you know
(14:58):
portions of his body all theway to his head, and then they
took his head and put it on apike and on the pike had a
carving of a wolf and then theyput it out there.
You know, it's like a warningto other people, like don't be
werewolves that's ridiculous.
Yeah, it was it was fuckingbrutal man.
Brutal just like the witchtrials.
I had no idea I had no idea.
MELL (15:21):
I knew that um there was a guy named Peter Stump.
EVAN (15:28):
Stub.
MELL (15:29):
Stub.
Was it Stub or Stump?
EVAN (15:32):
I think Stub, I think Peter Stub in Germany.
MELL (15:34):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, he was the werewolf of Bedburg.
EVAN (15:38):
Yeah, he was eventually blamed for all of those gruesome
killings and stuff out there.
MELL (15:43):
He was accused of werewolfery.
If that's a word, Show yourmouth.
I'm sorry.
TOMMY (15:52):
You're just coming off stupid.
MELL (15:53):
I'm coming off as stupid.
WES (15:56):
Mel, you're a bunch of werewolfery, right now.
TOMMY (15:59):
Well, werewolfery Instead .
WES (16:03):
of getting in trouble.
You guys be careful about yourwerewolferies.
Better stop with all thatwerewolfery.
Instead of getting in trouble,you guys be careful about your
werewolferies.
TOMMY (16:07):
Better stop with all that werewolfery.
MELL (16:11):
Find your head on a pike and and he had the biggest
werewolf trial in in 1589.
EVAN (16:22):
Yeah.
MELL (16:22):
And then he was stretched on a rack before.
That was before his torturestarted.
And then he confessed that, youknow, he'd been practicing
witchcraft since he was 12 andthat the devil gave him a magic
girdle or something, and so hewas able to metamorphose into
(16:44):
the likeness of a devouring wolf.
EVAN (16:46):
He had, like some, enchanted belt that gave him the
power to turn into a wolf.
TOMMY (16:51):
And he admitted that prior to torture or after
torture, yeah go figure yeah.
MELL (16:59):
But for 25 years he had allegedly been a quote
insatiable bloodsucker whogorged on the flesh of goats,
sheep, women and children tokilling and and eating 14
(17:26):
children and two pregnant women.
Who's?
TOMMY (17:27):
that he.
MELL (17:27):
He said he ripped the fetus out and ate their hearts
panting hot and raw.
That's a quote, and he laterdescribed them as dainty morsels
.
One of the 14 children that heconfessed to eating was his own
son get the fuck out I'm deadserious.
He said he went out into thesun with his son, into the woods
, turned into a werewolf and atehim cold-blooded that's some
(17:52):
fucked up shit.
That's fucking brutal heallegedly also had an incestuous
relationship with his daughter,which I don't think it was
incestuous as more he forcedhimself upon her, but she
actually was sentenced to diewith him.
What?
Yeah, he was executed onHalloween 1589, alongside his
(18:16):
daughter and a mistress.
What they did was they put himon this wheel side his daughter
and a mistress.
What they did was they put himon this wheel, and so the flesh
was torn from his body in 10places with those red hot
pincers, like you were saying,and then it was followed by his
arms and legs, and then hislimbs were broken with the blunt
side of an axe before he wasbeheaded, and then his body
(18:39):
burned on a pyre.
His daughter and his mistresswere flayed and then strangled
and then burned next to his bodyyeah, I am holy shit, that is
fucking brutal that is apunishment.
Doesn't tell you don't be awerewolf.
I don't know what does.
TOMMY (19:00):
Werewolfery.
MELL (19:01):
Yeah, werewolfery, churlish Frowned upon Churlish
Churlish.
TOMMY (19:12):
God damn man, Don't be a werewolf back then, you know
yeah.
EVAN (19:15):
Probably a bad idea.
You're going to have a bad time.
MELL (19:18):
Yeah, when we're going to werewolfery, lycanthropy is a
real thing.
EVAN (19:25):
Yeah.
MELL (19:25):
Now they don't transition into actual werewolves, but what
they see when a person who doeshave lycanthropy is like Bill
Ramsey was describing himself.
He looked at his hands and hesaid he could see the claws, and
so his hands would physicallycurl.
Because, he was in his mind, hewas and so I could see my claws
(19:49):
to your toes, yeah, so my claws, my hands.
I've seen your toenails, bro,so are you checking out my
toenails?
WES (20:01):
this is you could be a werewolf hey, this is not a
public place to be talking aboutthis talking about you'd be
checking out my feet, don't?
EVAN (20:10):
let.
MELL (20:10):
This is the perfect nonsense place because they're
in their mind, they're seeingthis change, they've convinced
themselves, they feel the painof the transformation.
WES (20:23):
Then, physiologically, they start to behave and modify
their body and hunch over as ifthey are now does this have to
go with and I know this is goingto be like way out in left
field, but you know, the peoplewho dress up like dogs and stuff
like that would just be part ofthat situation where you think
you are something but you'renegative no, you're talking
(20:44):
about furries.
You're talking about furries andI'm not just talking about
furries, but like there's thisdude that just like spent 26 000
to look like a collie, oh yeahand he gets walked around and
all that stuff.
And the only reason why I saythat is because, like the whole,
what is this?
Lichen, dioptery, whatever youwant to call it, lycanthropy,
(21:06):
werewolfery, but you're gettingtransformed into an animal and
they behave like an animal.
So wouldn't that fall in thesame realm?
MELL (21:14):
Well, there's a difference ?
Because I don't think so,because clinical lycanthropy and
what they're, they have like asort of almost like a body
dysmorphia kind of Well, I guess.
And now you've got me.
EVAN (21:29):
Damn.
These are the questions.
WES (21:31):
Hmm, because to me that follows right into that line.
You transformed yourself intoan animal.
You believe, from this time tothis time, that you are this
animal.
MELL (21:41):
You can keep me cooped up in here.
Okay, I am a peacock, you gottalet me fly that's very.
You make a good point I thinkthis is a choice, though no,
because they're making a choice.
WES (21:53):
It doesn't say it just says the illnesses in which a person
believes he or she has beentransformed into an animal.
Such persons behave like ananimal.
That's the whole definition ofit.
MELL (22:06):
That's different than species dysphoria, because
species dysphoria is more of theperson.
They know that they're human,but they have the desire to
become a non-human have thedesire to become a non-human.
EVAN (22:26):
So, anyways, um, where werewolves?
Um, apparently there is somemodern day sightings as well of
werewolves.
Oh yeah, stop it.
Yeah, that's what they say.
Um, the one such is, I guess,one of the most famous and
well-known ones, is uh, beengoing on for quite some time,
starting in the late 1930s, andthe most recent sighting,
somewhere in the 2011 area, iscalled the beast of Bray road.
TOMMY (22:49):
Yeah.
EVAN (22:50):
Hell yeah, I knew you were going there in Wisconsin.
MELL (22:54):
And I have no idea what you're talking about.
Do tell.
Seriously, you never found anynever heard of when you were
doing your your research before.
EVAN (23:02):
It's an interesting story, wesley.
If you know more about it,please do tell, because I don't
know a whole lot about thisstory.
TOMMY (23:09):
The Brairie Road.
It's similar to the same stuffthat was going on in Michigan
right across the lake, with theDog man in Michigan man.
EVAN (23:18):
All right, well, let's talk about the wisconsin one
first, and then we'll get tomichigan.
The beast of bray road is, uh,started with this guy named.
This man don't know his fullname, all they would know him by
is shackleman.
So, uh, one night, shacklemanspots this wolf man, you know,
standing about six to seven feettall, you know, just digging
some shit up over there in afield.
(23:39):
Shackleman was terrified, ofcourse, but also quite intrigued
, and uh, he so he decided tocome back to the same spot where
he saw it the first time andthat, you know, a couple days
later and surprisingly, he sawthe same beast again.
Apparently, this beast, thiswerewolf, um, spoke to him in
(23:59):
some unidentifiable language and, uh, I don't really know a
whole lot of the story, where itgoes from there, but it
continues to go on where the,this werewolf has been cited by
dozens of people over the years,over the decades, and one woman
claiming that it's jumped up onthe back of her car and all
kind of crazy shit has beenhappening.
(24:19):
What, yeah?
So I don't know what's up withthe shackleman guy.
TOMMY (24:25):
I don't know a whole lot of the story about him and what
was all about this beastspeaking to him and shit, but um
a lot of people have claimed tosee it and claim to have
interactions with it over theyears I was saying that, that
whole Shackleman encounter, whenthat happened, when he was
(24:45):
going through the field to goinvestigate this
suspicious-looking beast, if youmay.
It had a sleek, hairy body, oversix feet tall canine face, all
of that.
As he approached him, though,he got this smell of rotting
(25:09):
meat, you know, or that foulsmell Same thing people talk
about with their Bigfootencounters, you know, they get
that weird strange smell, footencounters, you know, they get
that that weird strange smell.
Um, but as he approached the,the beast, yeah, he said
something that was indescribable, like he couldn't even describe
what this thing was saying.
He was talking, and then itstood all the way upright,
(25:34):
turned around and ran off intothe bushes.
Now, if you look at, like, howhollywood has betrayed
werewolves and such, knowing youknow what they are air quotes
are right um, why wouldn't thisthing have just attacked this
dude man, like?
Why did they turn and run?
(25:55):
You know what I mean?
MELL (25:57):
Well, I found a little more on Mr Mark Shackleman.
TOMMY (26:02):
Oh, you found his first name.
Yeah, his name was Mark.
MELL (26:05):
Shackleman.
He was the night watchman atthe Catholic convent St Coletta.
Do you guys know why?
I know St Coletta.
EVAN (26:14):
No.
MELL (26:14):
That's where Rosemary Kennedy was sent after Joseph
Kennedy.
Her father had her lobotomizedin 1941.
TOMMY (26:22):
Same place, Damn really.
MELL (26:24):
Mm-hmm, interesting, it's the same convent.
EVAN (26:26):
Small world.
MELL (26:28):
Yeah, so the first time when it ran probably because he
was startled the next morningthen he went and told his wife
about the creature.
He said its thumbs and littlefingers looked shriveled, and
then so he went back to themound where he said it's thumbs
and little fingers lookshriveled.
And then so he went back to themound where he saw it and
discovered raking marks in thedirt.
And then, when it turnedtonight he went back towards
(26:50):
that mound and that's when hesaid the creature was covered
with darker black hair and likeShackleman.
Mark Shackleman was isn't wasin his mid th30s and he was a
former heavyweight boxer.
So he's pretty fucking he, hewas, he was pretty big and so he
said a fucking beast then yeah,he said.
(27:12):
He prayed to god to save him andstarted saying prayers out loud
and then it turned and walkedaway.
For a long time I stood therethat bad smell hung in the air
and then I said another prayerof thankfulness and I never saw
that thing again or anythingeven like it.
He called it a hell hound, hesaid.
(27:33):
He heard the creature sayGadara, which resembles Gadara,
which is a site mentioned in theBible where Jesus exercised a
demon-possessed man.
TOMMY (27:44):
Why would he say that?
MELL (27:46):
I don't know.
Gadara is where there was ademon-possessed man that was
coming out of the tombs, comingfrom the tombs in ancient Judah,
and so Jesus exercised thatdemon-possessed man, that
demon-possessed man, and if youthink about what story you just
told me, it's almost similar tolike the creature had been
clawing at a burial mound.
EVAN (28:05):
That's fucking wild.
That's crazy.
I'm glad you pulled that up,because I did not have any of
that information.
MELL (28:11):
Well, you know, I am a master of finding random bits of
information.
TOMMY (28:16):
That's one of the things you do.
Yeah, that's my job, job, youknow because you don't a lot,
but that's one of the things youdo yes I, I have a lot of I
don't yeah the list is long, sowe know about the mr wisconsin
and shackleman.
EVAN (28:33):
Now, what's up with this michigan thing?
All right, the dog man to thisinformation yeah the dog man of
mich.
TOMMY (28:40):
You know it's similar to what's going on in Wisconsin and
there are sightings.
I think the last sighting ofhim was 2015, maybe, but anyways
, the first sighting was in 1887.
And there were a couple loggersout lumberjacks, if you will
(29:01):
out doing their daily duties.
They spotted this, you knowseven foot tall, dog-like
creature gazing upon them asthey worked, and when they
stopped and looked at it, youknow it turned and ran um.
After that, there was a bunch ofbunch of other encounters that
took place, one of which was aman fishing along the Muskegon
(29:23):
River and he was attacked by apack of wild dogs and he also
had a shotgun on him at the time, while he was fishing, because
this is the early 1900s and Iguess that's just what you did.
But he fired the shotgun in theair and scared away the entire
pack of dogs except for one, andthis one dog stood up on its
(29:46):
hind legs and stared at him.
And this is a dog, you knowthis isn't like a werewolf or a
bigfoot or anything, just anormal looking wild dog but it
stood up on its hind legs andstared into this man's soul,
where he fired at the dog again.
The dog dropped down and tookoff and ran.
I can't think of a lot of timeswhere a dog has just bowed up
(30:09):
to me like that, so I imaginethat was a pretty crazy scenario
that played out.
MELL (30:15):
So multiple people have seen this.
TOMMY (30:17):
Yeah, yeah, no, so much, in fact, that there is a song
about the Michigan Dogman.
It's an actual song, andsomewhere in the Northwoods
darkness.
EVAN (30:29):
A creature walks upright.
WES (30:33):
And the best advice you may ever get is don't go out at
night.
TOMMY (30:45):
Yeah, this is.
It broadcasted over the radiosand everything.
I think that happened in likethe early 90s.
Maybe is when the song came out1987.
MELL (30:54):
It was supposed to be part of an april fool's day joke
there you go oh wow, that's it Ijust see now that someone
recently, as recent as 2019someone called on star you know
that thing in the car.
Yeah, yeah, I'm familiar theyreported that dog man ran in
front of the car and flippedtheir car over what?
EVAN (31:14):
holy shit.
There's also dog men sightingsin like pennsylvania too.
Um Same style kind of creaturesix to seven feet tall, weighing
anywhere from three to 500pounds, stands up on hind legs,
dog face covered in hair.
MELL (31:30):
So would you say that's the same thing as a werewolf?
TOMMY (31:33):
I mean that would be my guess.
Kind of what it sounds likethat Pennsylvania stuff.
You're talking about Evan, thatwhole Maine, how Myraves,
that's a big story.
EVAN (31:45):
Yeah, I'm not aware of that.
I've heard of the PalmyraWolves, but I haven't looked
into it too much.
TOMMY (31:52):
I seen it.
Did you guys ever watch thatshow?
Paranormal Witness at any pointin time?
It's like that reenactmentstyle show.
Witness at any point in time.
It's like that reenactmentstyle show.
Season three is when I firstheard about the palmyra wolves
and that was on that show.
That that's a wild story.
It was basically this uh, these, these, this couple had bought
(32:13):
this ranch house out in themiddle of nowhere in palmyra
main.
I'm assuming this is the middleof nowhere.
You, palmyra Maine.
I'm assuming this is the middleof nowhere.
They had their evening routineof sitting on the porch drinking
coffee and they would just sitthere and talk about their day
or whatever it was that theytalked about.
One evening they were sittingon their porch drinking coffee,
(32:37):
talking, and there was a lowmist that was kind of settling
over their, their property.
They had a big field and a barndriveway that led up to it, but
it's it's back in the deeptimber, you know, and as they're
sitting there, I think his wifementioned the fact like there's
(32:58):
no crickets tonight, you know.
And then they stopped and theylistened and there was nothing.
It was just a totally silentevening and she had this
flashlight she kept out there onthe porch.
So she shined around the field,you know, out along the fence
line and all of that, and therewas nothing out there.
(33:19):
And I guess her husband hadthis eerie feeling like we need
to go in the house.
So he got up and he's trying toget her to go in the house.
She doesn't want to go, she'slike let's just sit here and
drink our coffee.
And they heard something off inthe distance, some sort of
rustling noise.
So they grabbed the flashlightand they started panning the
field again, and out in thefield they seen these three
(33:45):
creatures about midway on thisfield this field's like 200
yards deep, you know and therewere three of them, and then
there were four of them, andthen there were five of them.
And he's looking at her likewhat the hell are those?
She's looking at him the sameway.
He's like I don't know, maybethey're bears, you know, like I
don't know, maybe they're bears,you know, like they honestly
(34:06):
didn't know what they were.
Then, out of nowhere, thosefive creatures just started to
bull rush the house, likerunning so fast that they
couldn't keep the flashlight onthem.
So they did him out, ran backinto the house and these
creatures circled their houseall night long.
(34:26):
He actually made, I think, twoattempts to go out into the barn
, which is where he kept hisguns.
No, it's odd, it's weird.
I don't keep my guns in a barn,it doesn't make any sense His
wife.
she wasn't a.
WES (34:44):
She might not have wanted the guns inside the house.
TOMMY (34:46):
And they had kids, you know.
So he built a strong box andthat's where he kept his guns,
was out in the barn.
But he made two differentattempts to go out there and he
was surrounded by thesecreatures that stood up on their
hind legs.
You know which bears do, but Ican't think of a a time when
(35:08):
bears had done anything likethis, and if you got that close
to a bear you would know it wasa bear.
EVAN (35:15):
They don't run on their hind legs either no, they don't.
TOMMY (35:19):
But they called 9-1-1 that night and, um, they didn't
send the police because theythought they were pranking them,
like their story sounded toofar-fetched for them to actually
send police out there,allegedly, you know what I mean.
But they hunkered down in theirhouse that night while these
(35:39):
creatures circled the house,they scratched on the building,
um so on and so forth.
But pretty, pretty trippy storyif you, uh, if you want to read
something fascinating.
MELL (35:50):
Anyways, well, I I appreciate this yeah, man.
EVAN (35:55):
So yeah, werewolves been around for a long fuck a time.
People been talking about thatshit for thousands of years
actually yeah, all right.
WES (36:03):
So I'm gonna go around the table real quick.
Do you believe in lichens orwerewolves?
EVAN (36:09):
uh, mel no evan and probably not no wes still fun.
TOMMY (36:16):
I'm gonna say probably not as well, but man, they are
fucking cool right what aboutyou, tommy?
MELL (36:23):
do you believe in them?
WES (36:24):
no, but I do believe, like, like I've told you before, all
legends had to start fromsomewhere and we got a pretty
pretty good uh synopsis of thisone.
Like we saw people with hair,uh, brought it up before about
the yes, but I brought it upbefore about how it could be
misconstrued inside a woodsetting.
TOMMY (36:45):
Absolutely um, you know, but why the fuck are those
people in the woods?
WES (36:50):
you, some people didn't want them within the villages
themselves.
MELL (36:56):
Listen if you have hyperkytro, hyper chytrosis,
that's not it.
TOMMY (37:01):
If you're exceptionally hairy, don't stay the fuck out
of the timber.
You know, if anything back,then I would want those people
around think about the extrabody warmth that's coming off of
all that fur.
You know, just curl up at thefoot of my bed, you know, keep
my feet cozy I mean, that is,that is one way, basically what
(37:28):
he says he wants to.
WES (37:29):
He wants to fucking taxi germ in this motherfucker and
have him sprawled out on thefloor I think they're made like
a big bear skin rug, but it'sjust like a hairy dude.
TOMMY (37:39):
That's fucked up, man.
That's that's fucked up.
EVAN (37:44):
I'm just gonna say that's not where I tended to go this
route, but okay, okay, fairenough there was like a king
that took one of like some kidthat had hypertrichosis and like
kept him as a pet as a pet likehe'd feed him scraps and yeah,
yeah like he was his pet.
TOMMY (37:58):
We think he nabbed him.
Do you think he changed hisname?
EVAN (38:01):
I'm hoping like max or something.
WES (38:03):
It's probably max come here , wes, wes goddamn fucking burn
got burned by jesus.
TOMMY (38:11):
Look at that.
EVAN (38:12):
I found him you found it, you about the very first family,
yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
MELL (38:27):
Petrus Consolvus.
TOMMY (38:28):
Yeah, no way.
Same family?
Yeah, no fucking way.
MELL (38:32):
The man in the woods, and he was part of the court of King
Henry II of France.
That's the guy, yes.
France, that's the guy, yes.
And so henry king henry offrance, when um gonzalves was 10
(38:54):
.
EVAN (38:54):
He was sent there as a gift.
Here's this little hairy kid.
Treat him well.
God damn what the fuck.
Some other rich fuck took thissuper hairy kid and was like
here you go.
TOMMY (39:07):
Here's your new pet king of france do you think he told
him it was a boy, or do youthink he told him it was an
animal?
MELL (39:14):
he.
No, I mean he, he was, he was,he talked.
You know, it wasn't like hewent there and went wharf, but
he ended up getting marriedthere, and even though he was
living and acting as a nobleman,his hairy kids were not
considered fully human in theeyes of the other people, and so
(39:37):
they were also gifted to othernobles as a sort of court pet.
What Damn.
Humans are so fucked up, so itis.
TOMMY (39:48):
That's ridiculous.
MELL (39:50):
It is believed that the marriage between him and his
wife, lady Catherine, may havepartially inspired that whole
fairy tale Beauty and the Beast.
TOMMY (40:02):
No, because of the fur.
MELL (40:04):
Mm-hmm.
He died in 1618 at like 81years old in Rome.
The last known record of himwas he was listed among those
who had attended his hairygrandson's christening Sorry,
(40:24):
Just had to slide that one offin there Awesome.
EVAN (40:28):
On that note, who wants to take us out of here tonight?
TOMMY (40:32):
I fucking got this.
I got this, bro Werewolfery, ifyou are excessively hairy,
don't be a fucking dirtbag.
Werewolfery has no place in theforest.
Oh yeah, hold on, go fuckyourself.
EVAN (40:47):
Good night everybody.
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On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!