When the wisdom of Judge Lynn Toler meets the intimacy of a podcast, you're bound to unearth some life-changing insights. This very special episode takes you through a labyrinth of emotional intelligence, exploring the powerful blend of humor, perspective, and compassion derived from Judge Toler's experiences with a bipolar father and a deeply perceptive mother. Our conversation uncovers the transformative influence of emotional self-awareness and how mastering it can lead to profound personal growth and success, both in and out of the courtroom.
Strap in for a heart-to-heart on creating relationships that thrive on equality and patience, as we reminisce about the early, intentional days of romantic connections and discuss the culturally ingrained issues that plague modern partnerships. Judge Toler shares her personal stories of both grief and healing, lending comfort and guiding lights to those navigating the treacherous path of loss. Every anecdote, brimming with vulnerability, invites you to consider the resilience and power of the human spirit in the face of adversity.
But it's not all heavy hearts and deep dives—there's room for a laugh, a wag of a tail from Toler's loyal companion Zora, and even a discussion on the lighter side of life post-widowhood. We traverse the spectrum of emotions, all the while examining the role of public figures in advocating for change and the impact of one's background on honesty in the public sphere. This episode promises to leave you with a tapestry of heartfelt narratives and perhaps, a newfound appreciation for the emotional superpowers we all possess.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello and welcome to my beautiful bipolar life.
I am your host, kelly Bauer.
Today's episode is a dream.
If you would have told me whenI had this idea for a podcast
that my first guest was going tobe a woman who has spent over
23 years on television,graduated from Harvard, wrote
(00:24):
four books and has the emotionalintelligence of an eagle, I
would have thought I wasdreaming.
But after hard work andmanifestation and a late night
slide into a TikTok DM.
I would like to welcome you tothe 14-year veteran of divorce
(00:48):
court, the current host ofMarriage Boot Camp and the
author of my Mother's Rules.
Please welcome Big E's wife,judge Lynn Toler.
Lynn Toler, good morning.
Good morning, I got a littleworried.
(01:09):
I couldn't get to you.
I could see you, but I couldn'ttalk to you.
Let me just tell you I am nottechnologically savvy at all, so
I had fingers crossed, like Iwas like please don't mess this
up, I know everything I get it,I get it fingers crossed Like I
was.
Like please don't mess this up.
Thank you so much for forgiving me this opportunity.
(01:30):
I am so, so excited and justhonored truly, truly honored
that you would talk to me today.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Oh, absolutely, it was my pleasure.
I hope you don't mind if Zorajoins us, because I don't at all
.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
I'm a dog, mom of five if Zora joins us.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
I don't at all.
I'm a dog, mom of five.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
That's why I didn't have my dogs, because that's
exactly what they would havedone.
The entire time I've got five.
I may have to move, but we'llsee what we can do Well that's
okay, I'm good girl, I lovewatching your videos with her,
(02:09):
so let's get into it.
Thank you so very much forjoining me.
I have been watching you foryears and on divorce court, I
think one of the things thatreally stood out for me is that
you are able to be honest butyet compassionate.
Where do you think that skillcomes from?
Speaker 2 (02:29):
My mother, my mother never, ever minced words.
If she said it, she meant it,and if it hurt your feelings,
you just had to get over it.
And I don't deliver quite likemy mother used to, because most
people can't take it, yeah.
So I soften the blow a littlebit because I remember when I
(02:49):
first got married to my husband,I used to deliver everything
like my mother delivered it.
Yeah.
And my husband spent the firstyear of our marriage just being
offended.
Ah yes, and so you know.
And then he realized I'm goingto have to.
It's okay, zora, zora, go, go,go, go, go, go fast.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
I am so sorry.
No, not at all, trust me.
Like I said, I got five.
I know that's why my door isclosed right now.
Look, I love it.
I love it, it it's fine.
We'll do the best we can.
That's right.
That's right, um, and you knowwhat?
It eases my worry.
so good, good, good, good, goodgood but yeah, so I am now on
(03:39):
chapter 19 of your book and Iwas fascinated.
Your mother's guide to yourmother's rules to being an
emotional genius, practicalguide to be an emotional genius
and I think the thing that I wasreally surprised because you
(04:03):
hear the title and you don't.
Then it went into yourbackstory and I had no idea
You're growing up very much likemine that your father was
bipolar and it was a successfulattorney and your mother had
grown up in poverty and comingup through the system and so it
(04:26):
was interesting to me to listento you navigate her emotional
intelligence and her to navigateher emotional intelligence at
such a young age and what do you?
think that level of intelligencecame from, because that was a
(04:48):
lot at that age to be able toquantify.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
Yeah, I think, honest to God I was, I am that I am
the progeny of two geniuses.
My father was a genius.
You know, according to everykind of genius, most people
acknowledge, which is he had an.
Iq of 144.
My mother was an emotionalgenius.
(05:11):
She was simply born with thataptitude to understand that
everything is driven by emotion.
I asked her about it.
I've tried to get her toexplain it and she says she
doesn't know.
It's just how she thinks andthat's the end of it.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Yeah, and I think you know what do you think that has
to do?
Oh, I lost you.
Can we get you back?
There you are.
I'm so sorry.
(05:48):
It's totally fine.
I got the door squeaking.
I turned the TV off.
This is actually perfect,because this is my life and this
is how I roll, so I feel likethis is exactly how it's
supposed to go.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
You just can't get it together.
You do the best you can.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
You do the best you can, you do the best you can,
and that is what I have learned.
And we're going to talk aboutgrief journey because I think
that has a lot to do with it.
I think when you come out of agrief journey, I think you have
a better sense of humor aboutthings and I think you just you
see things differently.
But one thing that I was, youknow, interested to see now, it
was different in my family, butyour father was never abusive to
(06:30):
you and your sister, notphysically, yeah, not physically
.
And I think that's such aninteresting dynamic.
And do you think that's why itwas easier for you to sort of
navigate and I know you didn't,you know you had had a difficult
time with it, but do you thinkit would have been more
difficult to navigate had youalso felt?
Speaker 2 (06:51):
the abuse, I think it would have been impossible.
Oh, I don't know, I don't wantto say impossible because,
because, because human beings,we can do some amazing things If
you're, if you are made to doso.
It would have been much moredifficult.
But I will tell you one thingif the abuse crossed to us, my
mother would have left.
Yeah, because we talked aboutit.
(07:13):
Yeah, she says I can stay, Ican deal, he doesn't hit me, but
it's scary yeah but had itcrossed that way, she'd have
been out with the both of us.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
And I think, as someone you know, I am bipolar
and my long-term partner wasbipolar and I think when you are
engaged in that kind ofbehavior, you're so deeply in it
that you don't even necessarilyrealize how crazy for lack of a
better word it is, becauseyou're so deep in it.
Because you're so deep in it.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
You're so deep in it.
And then a couple of days later, if we had an episode, he felt
this big, you know what I mean.
He just felt that he you knowhe didn't mean it At the time it
felt serious.
And afterwards he was so hurtand my mother once asked him you
know, you know, bill, why doyou do all that stuff?
(08:07):
I mean, I just, you know, Ijust want to know.
And he thought about it.
He said so, tony, if yourmother died, would you cry?
And she said yes, and he goeswhy?
And she says because that's howit feels he goes.
He goes there you go, feels hegoes, he goes there you go.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
Oh, that is a great explanation, you know I can't
control grief, I can't controlthis, and you know it's well.
You can control it to an extent.
I mean, and that is, I think,one of the things that's most
important.
And I love that you're anadvocate for mental health,
because when we, when we dedestigmatize the idea that
people just want to be cruel orpeople just want to be, you know
, saying crazy things or doingcrazy things, you know, I
(08:53):
thankfully my never reallymanifested through anger,
because when I was younger Iwitnessed physical abuse and I
just I made a decision.
So mine manifests in mostlywithdrawing and harming, not
harming physically, but harmingmyself.
And so I think it's reallyimportant to talk to people and
advocate for that, because Idon't think people really
(09:14):
understand.
It's like you see someone in awheelchair and you accept them
for being disabled, but you hearbipolar and you think it's a
choice and I you really reallydo I can't let somebody write a
letter.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
You know you're frozen.
Oh, there you go, You're moving.
Well, you're kind of frozen.
I don't know if I'm frozen, I'mjust you're not, am I.
Are we back you?
You're still frozen.
I can there you go, Okay, we'regoing to get through this.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
We are going to get through this.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
I got a woman who wrote a review of my book my
mother's rules and said that Ihad was giving bad information,
because if my father was ablenot to hurt my mother and my
sister and I, then clearly hewas able to control himself.
And we're back.
(10:14):
I am so sorry.
I think it's me and I don'tknow why it's fine.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
I love it.
I'm telling you, it takes thepressure off of me.
I love it, I'm telling you ittakes the pressure off of me.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
I love it.
I'm making so many.
Well, I'm glad you're so goodabout it.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
No, I'm just grateful you're here.
I'm really enjoying talking toyou and I think one of the
things that I got the most fromyou in just learning about you
was your sentences when you werea judge and the way that you
approached people.
I've always said it's soimportant to meet people where
they are.
You don't have to like themwhere they are.
(10:52):
You don't have to love themwhere they are.
You don't have to show up there.
Yes, you just have to show upthere, and that's what that
reminds me of.
You were showing up where theycould be, where they could meet
you, and if they chose not tomeet you there, then they didn't
right.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
Right, oh, and that's what a lot of people don't
understand Me taking the time tounderstand why you did what you
did, how you did what you did,and not telling you that you're
rude or you're evil or thatyou're horrible.
That's what I hate.
They say about you're evil orthat you're horrible, that's
what I hate.
They say that, oh, they're justcrazy, like the, the, the
shooters in the schools.
They're crazy.
(11:29):
No, I'm mentally ill, but thosepeople are angry and it is.
It is not something you can'tjust say crazy, put it down.
There's somethingsociologically and culturally
occurring in this country andyou could go along with it a lot
of ways about talking about it,but that young boys feel and
(11:52):
men feel so out of control andthe need to regain that control
by the easiest and the mostspectacular means necessary.
We've got to discuss itculturally, not just give more
lip service to mental health,which, by the way, once they say
it, they don't do nothing aboutit.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
Not a thing.
And that is my biggest problemis that we become this culture
and it's the word people use inall years that we become woke,
right?
We become aware, and yet wedon't do a damn.
Woke, right, we, we?
We become aware, and yet wedon't do a damn thing about it.
Once we're aware, we, we yell,you get mad, you yell, and then
(12:32):
you do, you wag your fingers atother people, but you never do
anything that that allows you tofix the problem.
By the way, on both sides of theaisles, but no, I think it on
both sides of the aisles, but no, I think it's on both sides of
the aisles.
And I really, now more thanever, I'm disappointed in
(12:52):
everybody.
Because, I think the lipservice is all we're getting
anymore, and it's so much aboutdefending each side and
defending the position.
There is no work done.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
Yeah, no, I'm trying to get anywhere.
Everybody's just.
This is my position, it's whatit is.
You don't agree with it.
You're a horrible person.
Now let's move on, not let.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
Okay, I can give you that if you'll give me this you
know, right, right and, andthat's the thing, and you know
we talked about meeting peoplewhere they are, and
(13:43):
no-transcript able to gain fromyour time on the bench is that
you were able to see that it wasa projection and you were
trying your best to kind of meetpeople where they were and give
them an opportunity.
And do you think that thepeople that you gave an
opportunity to I'm not evengoing to, I'm just going to
(14:16):
pretend it didn't happen.
I'm going to tell you it's beenmy favorite part, so far.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
I think it's my computer.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
I think I'm using the wrong one or something.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
But anyway, see, I used my phone for that very
reason, because I don't trust mycomputer and I don't even know
how to do it on my phone, butbut you know you are right about
that.
I mean, uh, human behaviorgrows out of the fertile ground
of feelings we don't know arethere, yes, and so everybody
acts, believes that they'reacting logically and
non-emotionally, but there arevery serious emotions underneath
(14:52):
that and cultural decisions andbeliefs that we don't realize
are there.
And then you think you're right, you feel so right about it
because it's right.
But no, you feel right about itbecause you understand it.
You know how you feel, but it'snot necessarily right.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
Absolutely.
It's sort of like fight orflight.
You know I grew up in aconstant state of fight or
flight.
You know I was waiting for theshoe to drop, waiting for
something to happen, waiting formy dad to act out.
Or you know, I was lucky, my dadwas in the Navy.
See, I was lucky, my dad was inthe Navy, so ours came in waves
, he'd come home and it.
You know.
So I lucky when I when I say itthat way, but I think that's
(15:35):
the most important thing thatyou can sort of regulate is that
fight or flight, because whenyou project that fight or flight
, you are going to react,however, however.
You've been taught, so to speak.
You know, and I think that whenyou project that fight or
flight, you are going to react,however.
You've been taught, so to speak, and I think that when you
don't really address it and payattention to why you're doing it
, you will just forever respondthat way.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
I remember when I realized that I was so angry all
the time because I wasincredibly fearful, and I was
fearful because I thought anysmall problem could turn into a
disaster, because if mom burnedthe biscuits, you know he could
break out the windows.
And so I couldn't tell a smallproblem from a big problem until
(16:25):
I sat down and realized why Icouldn't discern between the two
, and then I was able, as amatter of process and procedure,
to deal with it, as opposed tohaving epiphany.
I don't manifest.
I ain't got no epiphany.
I don't do none of that.
I gorilla fight house to house.
I work my emotions like the jobthey are.
(16:48):
Yeah, don't stop.
I work my emotions like the jobthey are, and I think every you
know.
That's one thing I think isgood about being emotionally
other abled you are required atsome point to engage in active
emotional management.
Now, people don't think they'rea little off.
(17:12):
Yes, so, all of their feelingsare perfectly rational and
normal, but I test all of them.
Is this rational Lynn, or isthis crazy Lynn?
Speaker 1 (17:23):
Which one are we talking to right now?
I do that all the time.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
But everybody should do it, not just us, everybody
should do it.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
And you know why I think that and especially with
social media and the way thatanybody can ever do before
they're going to react, is justpause For one second.
And let me tell you it took mea long time to learn.
I haven't paused.
You know that long I'm learning, but you know, when I was
(17:59):
younger, there was no pause.
And you come at me, I'm comingright back, give you 100 miles
an hour, no pause.
Now I realize the significanceof my reaction to my own
well-being, but also to others,and now it's like you don't.
Even the pause is to let youknow you don't deserve my
reaction, you don't deserve tobring me out.
(18:22):
Yes, yes, yes, yes.
And I think that is anemotional power.
And when you get that emotionalpower, we're just going to
pretend it didn't happen.
(18:43):
But no, truly, when you getthat emotional power and I think
that has been what has made youso successful is because you
were able to recognize that anduse that through your career,
and I do.
I think it is a power, I thinkit's a superpower.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
It is, it is, it's a superpower.
It really really is.
And I would have thatsuperpower if I didn't have the
struggles that I have.
I didn't have the fortune ofhaving a mother who was able to
look at her little girl and see,oh, she got some traits of her
daddy and I got to deal with herin one way.
(19:19):
And my sister, whose oldersister, got none of it.
She didn't get one teeny tasteof crazy at all and you know
everything she told my sister.
She told me the opposite,because Kathy was out in the
world boom, boom, boom and I waslike, oh my, God, yeah, yeah,
(19:40):
it's scary out here.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
Yeah.
But you know, I have to commendyou on taking that part of your
life and then trulytransforming it into something
so Incredible.
I mean, you really like I thinkof you know people like us.
We should probably not be doingmuch of anything, right, we
should be kind of just hopingfor the best.
And you know, walking aroundthe world kind of hoping for the
best.
But when you take that power andwhen you decide that that is
not going to define who you areand that you are going to make
(20:15):
those changes, I think itchanges everything.
And then you have a drive thatis just instilled in you to
never be that.
And your career and yourmarriage is so indicative of
that.
And I'll be honest, I washonest when I reached out to you
.
I knew of you, watched you onTV, loved you through the years.
(20:37):
But I will tell you, ms Stoller, watching you, ms Toler,
watching you announce that yourhusband was no longer with you,
and then your journey was one ofthe greatest things that I've
been able to witness, because Itoo and still on my grief
journey and watching somebodyfeel and be so real and just put
(21:00):
it out there and not be ashamedand not be impeded in any way
by somebody else's thoughts orreactions.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
Tell me about the man that you call Big E.
He was just wonderful.
I mean, I always say that younever would know who I was if it
wasn't him, because he was theone that was behind me, behind
all of that.
I had neither the bravery orthe drive to either run for
judge, win the election.
(21:34):
I mean, nobody thought I couldwin except him.
Even the guy who told me got meto run said you can't win, but
get your name out there.
And my husband was like I don'tknow who he thinks he's talking
to.
And you know, and going on TV,it was all him.
And whenever I was gone, Iwould be gone for months taping
(21:54):
Marriage Boot Camp.
He never bothered me.
He'd wait for me to call himbecause he knew it was the long
shoot.
And you know he it never madehim feel like less than it made
him feel proud.
Because you know, look, look atwhere I, look at where I got
(22:15):
her to.
You know.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
Well and his own inner confidence, his own belief
in himself, and that issomething that is so important
with with men in general.
I think men are able.
They don't realize well, maybethey do the power that they have
in relationships when they havetheir own confidence and when
they have their own worth, whatyou can do for the woman that
you love, when you feel that wayabout yourself.
(22:38):
It's amazing, especially forwomen like us that are very
strong and want to prove a pointand I've got this, I can do
this To have a man that kind ofsays it's all right, I got you,
I got you, I'm here and I'mgoing to make sure that you're
all right and I don't need yourspotlight and I don't need
anything, I just need you, andthat's where we're at Right.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
And that's.
I cannot apologize enough.
Don't don't If I knew what wasgoing on.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
Don't, I'm fine, I'm fine.
That is, tell me about yourfirst date, like how did he ask
you out?
How did this happen?
Because I want to know how itbegan.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
I was at a Cleveland Cavaliers basketball game and I
was there with members of my lawfirm in their loge and there
was a judge up there calledStephanie Tubbs Jones and I
walked in and I walked in, Ilooked at her and she said do
you have somebody?
She didn't say hello, nothing,hi, who?
Nothing.
(23:52):
I said no, I don't.
She said I got somebody for you.
And she walked me out of theLodge to the bar.
Her husband, josiah, and Biggie, were sitting one, two, three
and she said Eric, this is Lynn,lynn, this is Eric.
And when she drove me home thatnight she made sure she drove
me home that night.
She says when y'all get married, I want to perform the ceremony
(24:16):
.
And she did.
I saw it, you hear me.
I liked it when I saw it.
And the funny part was theother guy there, because I had
(24:41):
called me first.
They were both single and theother guy he was really good
looking too, both of them, butEric was cool, this other guy
was trying to be suave anddebonair.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
It's that confidence.
It's that confidence he had theimpressor.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
After this, that and the other, he had his little
jeans rolled up because theydidn't fit him right.
He didn't care.
Then it took him three weeks tocall me.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
Years later I said what took you so long?
Speaker 1 (25:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
He said because I knew he had just gotten a
divorce and he goes.
That's why Stephanie introducedus.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
Ah, she's trying to help him move on, yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
She was trying to get him together, get him back out,
and she said I knew if I calledyou it was real or it was
nothing.
I mean, you weren't somebody Icould just play around with.
If I wasn't intentional and ifI wasn't serious, then I wasn't
going to call you, so it took methree weeks.
Then I wasn't going to call you, so it took me three weeks.
(25:49):
Like he had just gotten adivorce and he had not
considered the possibility ofgetting a check, but it was like
I can't pass her up.
So it took him three weeks, buthe called.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
So what were you thinking during those three
weeks?
Did you ask your friend likewhat is going on the other?
Speaker 2 (26:08):
guy called and I got mad.
I said like what is going on?
The other guy called and I gotmad.
I said oh, they must havetalked about it and decided that
he could, he could pursue me.
The other guy no, because Iwasn't interested and I didn't
talk about it because it waslike the one I liked either
didn't like me or let his buddydo it.
So right.
I'll just move on.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
And you were just like it.
And where did he take you onyour first date?
I have to know.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
Cavaliers game.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
No, really.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
Oh, I love that Yep.
Speaker 1 (26:39):
I love that, so you took it back to the first
meeting.
There you go.
I love that and you know thething about confidence in anyone
but it.
But specifically in a man, Ithink when you're, like I said,
a strong woman, it's notarrogance and you know the
difference.
When it's not arrogance, right.
And for women like us, you knowthere has to be that level of
(27:00):
confidence, because if you'renot, I don't know I'm speaking
for us I'd run all over top ofyou.
You know what I mean, like, andI think that is what is so you
know important about buildingpeople up and I think that not
only culturally but you know,just across the board, we need
to do a better job of buildingmen and women up to have that
(27:24):
confidence and to understand.
You know trendy right now istoxic, like toxic relationships
are trendy Toxic cells, Toxiccells.
(27:45):
But tell me how you feel aboutthat, because it's really
disturbing to me to watch youngwomen like just allow themselves
to be made fools of.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
I mean, that's how I see it.
You're not a wife and if you'renot submissive and you go by
his thing and everybody, youain't nothing and all this kind
of stuff.
What they're doing is they'remaking short-term profits in
terms of views and a little bitof cash, or sometimes a lot of
cash, that youtube and tiktokpays and and and.
(28:25):
In return, they have sold thefuture of love.
You know what I mean.
If women are indoctrinated intothat.
I need a six-figure man, I needthis, I need that, I need the
other thing, and men are allinto submit, submit and do what
I say, and you ain't nothing andall this kind of stuff.
(28:45):
You miss the whole best part ofit.
All this kind of stuff you missthe whole best part of it the
whole thing was I gave him 100%of me, no matter what part of it
was, and he gave me 100% ofhimself and nobody was worried
about who was in charge or who's.
We were on our trajectory.
We chose this together.
(29:07):
Yeah, you know, we chose this.
This is what we are doing andeverybody she's got to follow my
program.
Ah, ah.
He had enough sense to knowthat my program, as he fussed
with it because my program wasoriginally I was going to be a
lawyer, I was a judge he may bea judge, but I wasn't going to
(29:30):
do nothing else but my programas he adjusted.
it was our program.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
Got us further than we ever would have been
otherwise.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
Yes, and I think that's such an important part
for for relationships is thatwhen you bring your whole self
and when they bring their wholeself together, you are something
that you would not have beenseparately, but you're fine
separate, and I think that'swhat makes the most beautiful
relationships.
And I find that I am much morein my feminine when a man is
(30:07):
secure in himself.
And I will be more and I saysubmissive and I don't mean it
that way, but do you know what Imean?
Like I find I flourish in myfemininity when a man is secure
and doesn't feel like he needsto tell me what to do.
When he shows me who he is,then I show him who I am.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
I've never considered myself feminine and I will go
to my grave saying I am notfeminine, I am not a chick chick
.
Yeah, I like to be in chargeand all that kind of stuff, but
(30:45):
my thing is, if I got a guy thatI know thinks I would do
anything for me, why wouldn't I?
do anything for him.
That part, that part, you knowit has nothing.
It's just like I like thisbrother.
Yes, um, I'll get in my car andthe seats all the way back.
That means he went in my car,he went and got gas, he checked
my tires and he brought it back.
That's what that means.
(31:06):
Yes, no words are exchanged.
He needs something.
He has a bad day.
I make him his favorite meal,not because I'm submissive, not
because he told me to, but Ilike him.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
Because you love him and you want to make him happy.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
And I want to make him happy.
And it has nothing to do withfemale roles or male roles.
We have our roles reversed.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
And that's the thing, roles we have reversed, and
that's the thing I think womendon't realize that you can be
strong in a relationship andstill have that compatibility.
As you know, you're equal andand you're, you have that part
of you.
But there is something niceabout knowing you've got a
partner, that you've gotsomebody to do it with you.
(31:48):
You don't need it, but you wantgot somebody to do it with you.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
You don't need it, but you want it, but it makes
you better.
I was 100%, he was 100%, we gottogether and we were 1,000%.
Yes, yes, yes, the whole isbetter hey.
I'm telling you this is themost pitiful interview.
(32:22):
No, it's the best.
I'm forgiven, I have not smiledthis much in a while.
Speaker 1 (32:30):
Holy cow, that's alright.
That's what editing is for.
I haven't smiled this much in awhile, that's all right.
That's what editing's for.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
Oh, I'm leaving someone in though.
Oh, I'm going to leave someonein.
Speaker 1 (32:42):
No, I want them to know how real you are, because
that really is what brought meto your TikTok page.
Truly, I saw the interview, thefirst interview you did, and I
was just like I gotta check thisout, like, and I watched you
and you know, watching yourgrief journey and then seeing
you not long ago.
You know it's been a littleover a year now year and a
(33:05):
couple months for you and youknow you said you had a moment,
and I think it's reallyimportant on Grief Journey to
just be honest in those moments,you know James Taylor is my man
.
James Taylor, I mean my dad.
We rode every summer to NorthCarolina listening to James
Taylor's greatest hits from thetime I was a baby and so when my
(33:33):
father was in hospice, that'sjust all we did because it
connected us and we sang and Iwould sing to him and you know,
and when you said that it justwent, it was like I knew exactly
what you felt it takes me tothe floor every time.
Speaker 2 (33:46):
First of all, it is a beautiful song.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
Do you know the origin of that?
Speaker 2 (33:50):
song His friend.
She put him in a psychiatricinstitute.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
Yes, and put it into her yes, yes.
And do you know that thatpsychiatric hospital was in my
dad's hometown?
No kidding, morganton, northCarolina.
Yes, broughton Hospital.
Speaker 2 (34:11):
You know, and I just found that out a couple months
ago because it was laying me outevery time and I said, well,
let me just see what thebackground of the song was and.
I looked it up and it wasbecause they put her in a mental
institution.
Speaker 1 (34:22):
Yeah, yeah, but isn't that crazy?
Like I always, I love the waythe world sort of intertwines
itself.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
Yeah, there's a certain synchronicity to it.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
Yeah, so what was your grief playlist Like, what
was it?
Because I became all aboutdistracting myself so I bit like
I went.
You know, I would just dothings, and one of the things
that I noticed when I would goafter that first year, you know
how, like your, your favoritesongs come in the next year and
I looked back on my playlist andI was doing some, some like all
(34:56):
over the place songs what were?
What were your sort of like Ineed to get and release and just
get it out.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
I would do like power rock songs, like it's probably
stuff you've never, never heardof, like last train to nowhere
by uh the gray hat the gray.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
Go ahead, now go ahead.
Speaker 2 (35:16):
I was just gonna say or screw you like me mean it.
It's not, it's f you like youmean it, but yeah, I mean, it's
just wrong.
Just yeah, like you mean.
I listened to Anita Baker.
Speaker 1 (35:31):
I got that you when, when people talk about grief,
you know there's so manydifferent stages and for me the
(35:54):
first night was very interesting.
I laid my I'm actually in theroom, this was my dad's room and
I I just laid in his hospicebed that night.
I mean, I just didn't, itdidn't feel real, but I didn't
want to let go Like I knew theywere coming to take the bed away
and I knew that you know.
And so what was that firstnight like for you?
Speaker 2 (36:14):
I got so drunk I just passed out and I did that for
two weeks.
I just me and Chopin potatovodka.
I would get up at four o'clockin the morning because I'm
always an early riser.
He had died suddenly out of theblue.
I mean people were in the houselaying floors.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
Keep going.
Speaker 2 (36:56):
They were laying floors, they were doing doors
and he was my accountant and hewas everybody's accountant, so
they had sent him all of theirstuff.
I had to send their stuff backto them.
I had to go through his.
I had to go to the hospital andfind his car.
Uh, it was just all day justputting out fires.
All day long, fire after fire.
People were calling his phone.
I had to tell him they weredead.
He was dead.
(37:16):
I mean, it was just.
It was just one fire afteranother.
I was supposed to have all mytaxes go out, you know my 1099s,
and you know I had to call anaccountant friend of his to get
get that done.
I didn't know where anythingwas.
I mean, we were completelyunprepared.
He was supposed to come home.
(37:36):
He just went in for an MRI.
He just went in for an MRI, soit was all about.
So I would work, work, work,work, work.
I do everything.
I would pack up his off.
I went through, I cleaned outoffice, I got his client stuff
back to him, I cleaned out allthe closets.
I cleaned out all the dressers.
I cleaned out everything by twoo'clock, I was hammered and I
(37:59):
went to bed and then I did itall over again.
Speaker 1 (38:02):
So you did what you had to and later, and later and
later and later.
Speaker 2 (38:08):
then I got off vodka, went to wine later and later,
and then, when I got to seveno'clock with a glass of wine, I
said I'm good.
Speaker 1 (38:17):
Yeah, and do you think that that was intentional,
like do you think you did thebusiness side of it and then
just literally just blackedyourself out to not think about
the things you didn't have towrite, could not run with it.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
Could not run with it , Because I have two sons,
younger sons, and they're mysons and they're my father's
sons I'm just going to leave itthere.
And so we were all struggling.
And I had one who was really,really, really struggling and
you know, he'd come get in thebed at three o'clock in the
morning, we'd talk a little bitand then he'd leave, but I made,
(38:50):
I made.
I was either busy orunconscious.
Speaker 1 (38:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:54):
One of the two.
Speaker 1 (38:55):
And when did you sort of hit that turning point that
was like, okay, this isn't goingto, this can't be forever.
And now I'm going to begin tosort of at least look at it.
Speaker 2 (39:10):
You know it's funny because I worry about things so
much and I worried about you.
Know, have you ever watchedHoarders?
Yes, I worried about becomingone of those people because I've
never been a neat person andI've had to become much neater
(39:30):
because I was married and hecouldn't stand it.
So I had this and a lot of themon there they talk about.
Everything was beautifulforever.
He died and everything went to,went to pot.
So I was mean on clean.
It was very, very important andI remember two weeks in cause I
was getting getting hammered attwo.
I called a friend of mine.
I said it's two o'clock and I'mhammered and I'm worried.
(39:53):
He said give yourself a month.
If you still hammered at two,we'll talk about it.
But I wasn't.
Do you know what?
I mean yeah.
And then I got a griefcounselor who wasn't very good.
Speaker 1 (40:09):
They never really are .
They really are.
Speaker 2 (40:13):
I couldn't figure it out no, and this one chick was
like I would always open up with.
This is what I did this week.
Yeah, and I would always behonest about what I drink, when
I drank it and how much I drank.
Every time I tell them.
And she said you know, we can'tget anywhere unless you admit
(40:34):
you have a drinking problem.
And I'm like bitch, what have Ibeen telling you this whole
time?
We got a problem I start outwith I had vodka at 4.
And I'm not comfortable withthat, so tomorrow I'm going to
have it at 4.30.
Yeah, I had a plan to fix it,but she was supposed to hold me
(40:56):
responsible and then tell me yougot to admit you have a problem
, Like why do you think I'm here?
Speaker 1 (41:16):
you know what mine did, my, my grief counselor.
I said to her because I I stillbelieve this, I believe that
people are energy and it nevergoes away.
And I would say to her that mydad's energy is still with me
and I have these conversations.
Do you know she?
She reported, as I was talkingto imaginary people, that I was
hearing hallucinations because Iwas bipolar, that I was hearing
(41:40):
things and I was havinghallucinations and I was like
I'm not coming back.
And that's when I realized thatI wanted to really and that's
how this podcast started,because it was so.
There are so many things that Ilearned during my grief journey
and watching other people gothrough theirs.
Not only is it a unique, it'sunique to everybody, a better
(42:09):
human being that I could haveever imagined, because I decided
to really do the work and sortof go through those emotions and
process them in a way that feltright to me, and I spent an
entire year just doing what feltright and I just would trust my
intuition and I would justallow myself to sort of grow and
evolve as it as it happened.
(42:30):
How do you think that hasshaped who Judge Lynn Toler is
today.
Like where did that bring youto and who are you today?
I'm not sure yet.
Speaker 2 (42:42):
I love that answer.
I, you know I take myself apartand put myself together all the
time, because I always have hadto, because I've always
struggled so mightily with who Iam and how I feel.
Yeah, so it was almost old hat.
Yeah, in a new jacked up arenayeah all right.
(43:09):
Okay, this is the problem whatyou gonna do.
Let the drinking go too bad.
You got to watch your kids, yougot to make sure.
All that, just just just everyday.
Write down what you need to doand just keep moving, keep
moving, keep moving, keep moving.
And you know, I called mygirlfriends who were widows, you
(43:33):
know and they would get methrough it.
I'd go in the closet, scream,holler and cry.
I'd have to tell my son toleave the house first because he
couldn't take it.
Speaker 1 (43:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (43:41):
And I mean, I would just holler.
I would you know, wear hisclothes around the house.
I would, you know, just act afool, and you know.
And then it slowly, slowlydissipated.
You know what I mean.
So, you know, if James Taylordon't say nothing to me, I'll be
all right.
Speaker 1 (44:03):
And I think what I have learned and I'm now I'm
almost three years, in JulyIt'll be three years for me I
think what I have learned isthat now I can take it as love
and I smile and I tell storiesand I realize how lucky I was to
have the journey.
Like you know people, I alwayswonder what's worse.
(44:25):
You know, losing them withoutwarning or having the warning
and I feel just so lucky to havehad the time to really do the
work and and and say the thingsthat I needed to say.
And do you think that you leftanything unsaid or do you feel
like each day you woke up andyou told each other, or at least
felt?
Maybe not told each other, butyou knew each day how you felt?
Speaker 2 (44:49):
I'd tell him I loved him all day long.
Good you know, I mean he'd bein his office.
Love you, that's for no reason.
Yeah, you know I poke my headin what you doing and he'd go.
I mean, we're goofing around,we were sitting.
I mean you know it was like,yeah, we done made money, we're
in a good spot, house is paidfor, we're going to put some new
(45:10):
floors in and we're going totake some train rides and we're
going to run around the countryand visit the grandchildren, and
that's where we were.
So we didn't left anythingunsaid and and I agree with you
that the fact that you had timewas was was my mother and I, who
were were extraordinarily close.
She died of ALS frontaltemporal dementia and it was
(45:48):
nice to be able to sit and talk,you know about it, and she
talked to my youngest son, whostruggles a bit emotionally, and
she got him together and it wasjust, it was nice, and with him
it was like it was sirens.
(46:10):
I mean I, he and I had beentogether longer than I had ever
been single.
We were together 34 years.
I married him when I was.
I met him when I was 27.
And I, just like I was, Icouldn't figure out who I was
for a second.
Speaker 1 (46:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (46:25):
You know cause?
I was half of the pair, thatwas us.
Yeah, it changes.
I mean, it really is youridentity.
Speaker 1 (46:32):
I mean, it is your identity.
You have your separate identity.
You now it's like I'm notmarried anymore and I don't miss
(46:59):
the companionship, at least notyet.
Speaker 2 (47:03):
I still miss him.
Speaker 1 (47:04):
Yeah.
Yeah, I miss him so and I thinkthat will never go away.
And I think you know, withmarriage it's very different
than when you're a parent.
Because you're a parent you canmourn that person sort of
forever.
And there's no, you know,there's nothing, society doesn't
make you feel bad about it, butwhen you're married it's like
people expect you to sort of getover it.
(47:26):
And you know I'm sure you'vealready been asked when you're
going to date.
Can I tell?
Speaker 2 (47:30):
you what people have been doing.
I get about 60, 70 messages aday on TikTok, about 20 a day on
Facebook.
Any dude with a penis and apulse has dropped in and waved.
Three of them were apparentlytold by God that I was their
(47:56):
next wife.
Oh they need to get togetherbecause apparently somebody got
somebody else's email.
Apparently, they all got thesame email and I had one guy say
to me and it was so funny, Iscreenshotted it from Facebook.
At 7 o'clock he said are youavailable to talk?
And at seven o'clock onFacebook the next day he says I
(48:17):
really think you're beautiful.
At seven o'clock the next dayis oh, I can see that you think
you're too good for me.
Speaker 1 (48:24):
Oh, those are my favorite.
Speaker 2 (48:26):
African-American women?
Now, I don't even this is anAfrican dude and I don't even
look at my messages, but once aweek.
Speaker 1 (48:36):
I'm honored you answered mine.
Speaker 2 (48:40):
And I look and I don't answer many.
Speaker 1 (48:43):
Yeah.
You know, I don't have anythingto say to a dude.
Yeah, yeah, no.
Speaker 2 (48:48):
I don't have anything and I'm not interested, Right,
but you are interesting though.
But you were interesting though.
Speaker 1 (48:54):
Thank you, thank you.
You probably was like, oh,she's crazy.
I got to at least see whatshe's up to.
Speaker 2 (49:02):
You want to know what it was.
It was how you wrote your firstwhen I first.
It's how you wrote what youwrote.
You write well.
Most people don't.
Speaker 1 (49:13):
Thank you, tony Morrison told me I had a gift
you wrote.
You write well.
Most people don't.
Thank you, toni Morrison toldme I had a gift for words.
You do.
You do, you write well.
I tell everybody that that's myclaim to fame.
Toni Morrison said I had a giftfor words.
If she had said that to me, I'dbe telling, I'd have that on my
Facebook page I did an event forBarack Obama President Obama
when he was running and she wasat the event and I did a thing
(49:35):
about autism my son's autisticand she said that to me and I
said just so you know, I'm goingto tell everybody for the rest
of my life as well, you should.
Speaker 2 (49:42):
As well you should so .
Speaker 1 (49:45):
Well, thank you.
I like to articulate how I feel, because I think when you come
to people in a state of how youreally are, I think the
authenticity allows people tosee you and then they can decide
if they want it or not, andthat was kind of my thing.
I'm going to send her thismessage.
This is how I feel, and if shedoesn't respond, it's okay.
Speaker 2 (50:15):
And I don't know if you want me to say this part or
not.
Go ahead, and if you don't, Ican take it out.
You can edit it out.
Speaker 1 (50:20):
No, no go.
Speaker 2 (50:21):
I I love honesty and awesome when you said I'm manic
right now, but I won't keeptalking, I was like, like oh, I
know where she is.
Speaker 1 (50:33):
I deleted that message.
By the way.
Did you see that what?
I deleted that message and Iwas like she already read it.
Speaker 2 (50:43):
I thought that's what made me.
That's what made me.
She understands what'shappening with her.
Most people will say, well, I'mbipolar and these things are
happening.
She understands it.
She understands it.
She knows where she is in thecycle.
She knows what that position inthe cycle makes her do and
she's currently fighting it inorder to get where she needs.
She's like me.
Speaker 1 (51:05):
Thank you, and I am so.
I'm so glad you said that,because I did, because this was
before I really learned aboutyour mental health.
I mean, I knew overall but Ididn't know.
You know to this extent.
So I sent it and I was like, ohmy God, she's going to run for
the hills and I deleted it.
But I knew I'd like I knew youalready.
I read it.
Speaker 2 (51:25):
I read it, I saw it and I said this woman is
self-aware.
Speaker 1 (51:33):
Yeah, you know you can do.
You can work with people whoare self-aware.
Speaker 2 (51:35):
even if they ain't right, they you know they got it
quite together that day you canwork with people who are
self-aware, and so that's why Idid it.
Speaker 1 (51:41):
I appreciate that so much because it is one of the
things that I have tried toalways be.
I've tried to be honest withwho I am and I've tried to be
real with people because I again, when you meet people where
they are, there's a level oftrust that when you're, when
you're being yourself.
And that's what I wanted.
I wanted you to realize that Iwas going to come to this with
just an honest heart and wantingto share your story and and the
(52:04):
things that you have done.
I do want to talk about thewhole brother mission, because I
think it's really important totalk about how we can help and
the things that we can do.
So just talk about that and whyit's important to you.
Well, it's interesting.
Speaker 2 (52:21):
I can't even remember how that brother got to me, but
he knew I was talking aboutblack mental health, and mental
health in the black community islike you know.
We have more problems in themainstream community because you
know, you know I mean for amultitude of reasons that we
don't need to get into.
Speaker 1 (52:40):
There is a disparity in services, there's a disparity
in diagnosis, I mean absolutelyA lack of trust in the medical
system, absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (52:54):
system, absolutely, absolutely.
And different cultural.
You know, it's just the Blackchurch has been resistant to it.
So there's just a whole lot ofreasons why.
And he was like, especially forBlack, for any man, they ain't
gonna sit around and talk abouthow they feel, even though they
need to.
So he was like they need totalk about how they feel.
So I'm going to open up thatconversation.
And he reached out I can'tremember when or why and I said
(53:16):
yes and I did the forward to thebook and I just appreciate him
and so I just, you know, if Isee you're doing something in my
life like I also have anothercall called Bloom 365.
Speaker 1 (53:28):
And we go into schools to teach people, teach
young women and men, how not tobe abused and how not to become
an abuser, and so if someonecomes to me with something that
I feel is important, you know,as long as I think you're doing
right, I appreciate that becauseI think that you know a lot of
(54:02):
the times when people get acertain level of celebrity, they
don't realize that there isstill an impact that they can
make with the you know common,so to speak, people, and I think
it speaks to who you are, whoyour mother was, the
relationship that you had withyour husband and your father I
think you're able to see allthose things and your father.
I think you're able to see allthose things and that's why, the
more that I began to learnabout you, I you became truly a
friend in my head, because I'mlike I know this, I know this
journey, I know and it's funny,I mean we we came from very
(54:23):
different but similar, similar,you know background and I just
love how honest you are, becauseI don't think people are honest
enough about I love that you'rehonest.
(54:49):
I'm going to have to go in a few, yeah, so let's yeah, let's
finish up, because I don't wantto keep you much longer.
I appreciate this so much.
I only have two more questions,or two more things I'd like to
ask you what would you say toyour eight-year-old self today?
Speaker 2 (55:05):
Stop worrying about it.
It's going to be fine.
Speaker 1 (55:08):
I love that.
And then I just want to ask yousome rapid fire questions,
because I love travel and food.
What's your favorite candy?
Speaker 2 (55:16):
M&M's Fast food.
It's been a minute Subway.
Speaker 1 (55:25):
Subway, ok, what's your favorite place to travel?
Speaker 2 (55:32):
I don't know, I don't go very far.
My my most fun vacation was, uh, I know, uh, the islands.
I love going to the islands, metoo.
Speaker 1 (55:41):
And what is your happy place?
Speaker 2 (55:47):
I'm not too rapid, tired this morning Still looking
for it.
Speaker 1 (55:54):
I love that.
Still looking for it, judge, Iam honored, I am grateful and I
just want to thank you so muchfor this opportunity and I wish
you all the best and I'm lookingforward to watching you
continue your journey and justbe an amazing and compassionate
person.
I appreciate you.
Speaker 2 (56:12):
I wish you well.
Speaker 1 (56:13):
Thank you.
Hello and welcome to my beautiful bipolar life.
I am your host, kelly Bauer.
Today's episode is a dream.
If you would have told me whenI had this idea for a podcast
that my first guest was going tobe a woman who has spent over
23 years on television,graduated from Harvard, wrote
(00:24):
four books and has the emotionalintelligence of an eagle, I
would have thought I wasdreaming.
But after hard work andmanifestation and a late night
slide into a TikTok DM.
I would like to welcome you tothe 14-year veteran of divorce
(00:48):
court, the current host ofMarriage Boot Camp and the
author of my Mother's Rules.
Please welcome Big E's wife,judge Lynn Toler.
Lynn Toler, good morning.
Good morning, I got a littleworried.
(01:09):
I couldn't get to you.
I could see you, but I couldn'ttalk to you.
Let me just tell you I am nottechnologically savvy at all, so
I had fingers crossed, like Iwas like please don't mess this
up, I know everything I get it,I get it fingers crossed Like I
was.
Like please don't mess this up.
Thank you so much for forgiving me this opportunity.
(01:30):
I am so, so excited and justhonored truly, truly honored
that you would talk to me today.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Oh, absolutely, it was my pleasure.
I hope you don't mind if Zorajoins us, because I don't at all
.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
I'm a dog, mom of five if Zora joins us.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
I don't at all.
I'm a dog, mom of five.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
That's why I didn't have my dogs, because that's
exactly what they would havedone.
The entire time I've got five.
I may have to move, but we'llsee what we can do Well that's
okay, I'm good girl, I lovewatching your videos with her,
(02:09):
so let's get into it.
Thank you so very much forjoining me.
I have been watching you foryears and on divorce court, I
think one of the things thatreally stood out for me is that
you are able to be honest butyet compassionate.
Where do you think that skillcomes from?
Speaker 2 (02:29):
My mother, my mother never, ever minced words.
If she said it, she meant it,and if it hurt your feelings,
you just had to get over it.
And I don't deliver quite likemy mother used to, because most
people can't take it, yeah.
So I soften the blow a littlebit because I remember when I
(02:49):
first got married to my husband,I used to deliver everything
like my mother delivered it.
Yeah.
And my husband spent the firstyear of our marriage just being
offended.
Ah yes, and so you know.
And then he realized I'm goingto have to.
It's okay, zora, zora, go, go,go, go, go, go fast.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
I am so sorry.
No, not at all, trust me.
Like I said, I got five.
I know that's why my door isclosed right now.
Look, I love it.
I love it, it it's fine.
We'll do the best we can.
That's right.
That's right, um, and you knowwhat?
It eases my worry.
so good, good, good, good, goodgood but yeah, so I am now on
(03:39):
chapter 19 of your book and Iwas fascinated.
Your mother's guide to yourmother's rules to being an
emotional genius, practicalguide to be an emotional genius
and I think the thing that I wasreally surprised because you
(04:03):
hear the title and you don't.
Then it went into yourbackstory and I had no idea
You're growing up very much likemine that your father was
bipolar and it was a successfulattorney and your mother had
grown up in poverty and comingup through the system and so it
(04:26):
was interesting to me to listento you navigate her emotional
intelligence and her to navigateher emotional intelligence at
such a young age and what do you?
think that level of intelligencecame from, because that was a
(04:48):
lot at that age to be able toquantify.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
Yeah, I think, honest to God I was, I am that I am
the progeny of two geniuses.
My father was a genius.
You know, according to everykind of genius, most people
acknowledge, which is he had an.
Iq of 144.
My mother was an emotionalgenius.
(05:11):
She was simply born with thataptitude to understand that
everything is driven by emotion.
I asked her about it.
I've tried to get her toexplain it and she says she
doesn't know.
It's just how she thinks andthat's the end of it.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Yeah, and I think you know what do you think that has
to do?
Oh, I lost you.
Can we get you back?
There you are.
I'm so sorry.
(05:48):
It's totally fine.
I got the door squeaking.
I turned the TV off.
This is actually perfect,because this is my life and this
is how I roll, so I feel likethis is exactly how it's
supposed to go.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
You just can't get it together.
You do the best you can.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
You do the best you can, you do the best you can,
and that is what I have learned.
And we're going to talk aboutgrief journey because I think
that has a lot to do with it.
I think when you come out of agrief journey, I think you have
a better sense of humor aboutthings and I think you just you
see things differently.
But one thing that I was, youknow, interested to see now, it
was different in my family, butyour father was never abusive to
(06:30):
you and your sister, notphysically, yeah, not physically
.
And I think that's such aninteresting dynamic.
And do you think that's why itwas easier for you to sort of
navigate and I know you didn't,you know you had had a difficult
time with it, but do you thinkit would have been more
difficult to navigate had youalso felt?
Speaker 2 (06:51):
the abuse, I think it would have been impossible.
Oh, I don't know, I don't wantto say impossible because,
because, because human beings,we can do some amazing things If
you're, if you are made to doso.
It would have been much moredifficult.
But I will tell you one thingif the abuse crossed to us, my
mother would have left.
Yeah, because we talked aboutit.
(07:13):
Yeah, she says I can stay, Ican deal, he doesn't hit me, but
it's scary yeah but had itcrossed that way, she'd have
been out with the both of us.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
And I think, as someone you know, I am bipolar
and my long-term partner wasbipolar and I think when you are
engaged in that kind ofbehavior, you're so deeply in it
that you don't even necessarilyrealize how crazy for lack of a
better word it is, becauseyou're so deep in it.
Because you're so deep in it.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
You're so deep in it.
And then a couple of days later, if we had an episode, he felt
this big, you know what I mean.
He just felt that he you knowhe didn't mean it At the time it
felt serious.
And afterwards he was so hurtand my mother once asked him you
know, you know, bill, why doyou do all that stuff?
(08:07):
I mean, I just, you know, Ijust want to know.
And he thought about it.
He said so, tony, if yourmother died, would you cry?
And she said yes, and he goeswhy?
And she says because that's howit feels he goes.
He goes there you go, feels hegoes, he goes there you go.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
Oh, that is a great explanation, you know I can't
control grief, I can't controlthis, and you know it's well.
You can control it to an extent.
I mean, and that is, I think,one of the things that's most
important.
And I love that you're anadvocate for mental health,
because when we, when we dedestigmatize the idea that
people just want to be cruel orpeople just want to be, you know
, saying crazy things or doingcrazy things, you know, I
(08:53):
thankfully my never reallymanifested through anger,
because when I was younger Iwitnessed physical abuse and I
just I made a decision.
So mine manifests in mostlywithdrawing and harming, not
harming physically, but harmingmyself.
And so I think it's reallyimportant to talk to people and
advocate for that, because Idon't think people really
(09:14):
understand.
It's like you see someone in awheelchair and you accept them
for being disabled, but you hearbipolar and you think it's a
choice and I you really reallydo I can't let somebody write a
letter.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
You know you're frozen.
Oh, there you go, You're moving.
Well, you're kind of frozen.
I don't know if I'm frozen, I'mjust you're not, am I.
Are we back you?
You're still frozen.
I can there you go, Okay, we'regoing to get through this.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
We are going to get through this.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
I got a woman who wrote a review of my book my
mother's rules and said that Ihad was giving bad information,
because if my father was ablenot to hurt my mother and my
sister and I, then clearly hewas able to control himself.
And we're back.
(10:14):
I am so sorry.
I think it's me and I don'tknow why it's fine.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
I love it.
I'm telling you, it takes thepressure off of me.
I love it, I'm telling you ittakes the pressure off of me.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
I love it.
I'm making so many.
Well, I'm glad you're so goodabout it.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
No, I'm just grateful you're here.
I'm really enjoying talking toyou and I think one of the
things that I got the most fromyou in just learning about you
was your sentences when you werea judge and the way that you
approached people.
I've always said it's soimportant to meet people where
they are.
You don't have to like themwhere they are.
(10:52):
You don't have to love themwhere they are.
You don't have to show up there.
Yes, you just have to show upthere, and that's what that
reminds me of.
You were showing up where theycould be, where they could meet
you, and if they chose not tomeet you there, then they didn't
right.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
Right, oh, and that's what a lot of people don't
understand Me taking the time tounderstand why you did what you
did, how you did what you did,and not telling you that you're
rude or you're evil or thatyou're horrible.
That's what I hate.
They say about you're evil orthat you're horrible, that's
what I hate.
They say that, oh, they're justcrazy, like the, the, the
shooters in the schools.
They're crazy.
(11:29):
No, I'm mentally ill, but thosepeople are angry and it is.
It is not something you can'tjust say crazy, put it down.
There's somethingsociologically and culturally
occurring in this country andyou could go along with it a lot
of ways about talking about it,but that young boys feel and
(11:52):
men feel so out of control andthe need to regain that control
by the easiest and the mostspectacular means necessary.
We've got to discuss itculturally, not just give more
lip service to mental health,which, by the way, once they say
it, they don't do nothing aboutit.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
Not a thing.
And that is my biggest problemis that we become this culture
and it's the word people use inall years that we become woke,
right?
We become aware, and yet wedon't do a damn.
Woke, right, we, we?
We become aware, and yet wedon't do a damn thing about it.
Once we're aware, we, we yell,you get mad, you yell, and then
(12:32):
you do, you wag your fingers atother people, but you never do
anything that that allows you tofix the problem.
By the way, on both sides of theaisles, but no, I think it on
both sides of the aisles, but no, I think it's on both sides of
the aisles.
And I really, now more thanever, I'm disappointed in
(12:52):
everybody.
Because, I think the lipservice is all we're getting
anymore, and it's so much aboutdefending each side and
defending the position.
There is no work done.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
Yeah, no, I'm trying to get anywhere.
Everybody's just.
This is my position, it's whatit is.
You don't agree with it.
You're a horrible person.
Now let's move on, not let.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
Okay, I can give you that if you'll give me this you
know, right, right and, andthat's the thing, and you know
we talked about meeting peoplewhere they are, and
(13:43):
no-transcript able to gain fromyour time on the bench is that
you were able to see that it wasa projection and you were
trying your best to kind of meetpeople where they were and give
them an opportunity.
And do you think that thepeople that you gave an
opportunity to I'm not evengoing to, I'm just going to
(14:16):
pretend it didn't happen.
I'm going to tell you it's beenmy favorite part, so far.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
I think it's my computer.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
I think I'm using the wrong one or something.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
But anyway, see, I used my phone for that very
reason, because I don't trust mycomputer and I don't even know
how to do it on my phone, butbut you know you are right about
that.
I mean, uh, human behaviorgrows out of the fertile ground
of feelings we don't know arethere, yes, and so everybody
acts, believes that they'reacting logically and
non-emotionally, but there arevery serious emotions underneath
(14:52):
that and cultural decisions andbeliefs that we don't realize
are there.
And then you think you're right, you feel so right about it
because it's right.
But no, you feel right about itbecause you understand it.
You know how you feel, but it'snot necessarily right.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
Absolutely.
It's sort of like fight orflight.
You know I grew up in aconstant state of fight or
flight.
You know I was waiting for theshoe to drop, waiting for
something to happen, waiting formy dad to act out.
Or you know, I was lucky, my dadwas in the Navy.
See, I was lucky, my dad was inthe Navy, so ours came in waves
, he'd come home and it.
You know.
So I lucky when I when I say itthat way, but I think that's
(15:35):
the most important thing thatyou can sort of regulate is that
fight or flight, because whenyou project that fight or flight
, you are going to react,however, however.
You've been taught, so to speak.
You know, and I think that whenyou project that fight or
flight, you are going to react,however.
You've been taught, so to speak, and I think that when you
don't really address it and payattention to why you're doing it
, you will just forever respondthat way.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
I remember when I realized that I was so angry all
the time because I wasincredibly fearful, and I was
fearful because I thought anysmall problem could turn into a
disaster, because if mom burnedthe biscuits, you know he could
break out the windows.
And so I couldn't tell a smallproblem from a big problem until
(16:25):
I sat down and realized why Icouldn't discern between the two
, and then I was able, as amatter of process and procedure,
to deal with it, as opposed tohaving epiphany.
I don't manifest.
I ain't got no epiphany.
I don't do none of that.
I gorilla fight house to house.
I work my emotions like the jobthey are.
(16:48):
Yeah, don't stop.
I work my emotions like the jobthey are, and I think every you
know.
That's one thing I think isgood about being emotionally
other abled you are required atsome point to engage in active
emotional management.
Now, people don't think they'rea little off.
(17:12):
Yes, so, all of their feelingsare perfectly rational and
normal, but I test all of them.
Is this rational Lynn, or isthis crazy Lynn?
Speaker 1 (17:23):
Which one are we talking to right now?
I do that all the time.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
But everybody should do it, not just us, everybody
should do it.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
And you know why I think that and especially with
social media and the way thatanybody can ever do before
they're going to react, is justpause For one second.
And let me tell you it took mea long time to learn.
I haven't paused.
You know that long I'm learning, but you know, when I was
(17:59):
younger, there was no pause.
And you come at me, I'm comingright back, give you 100 miles
an hour, no pause.
Now I realize the significanceof my reaction to my own
well-being, but also to others,and now it's like you don't.
Even the pause is to let youknow you don't deserve my
reaction, you don't deserve tobring me out.
(18:22):
Yes, yes, yes, yes.
And I think that is anemotional power.
And when you get that emotionalpower, we're just going to
pretend it didn't happen.
(18:43):
But no, truly, when you getthat emotional power and I think
that has been what has made youso successful is because you
were able to recognize that anduse that through your career,
and I do.
I think it is a power, I thinkit's a superpower.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
It is, it is, it's a superpower.
It really really is.
And I would have thatsuperpower if I didn't have the
struggles that I have.
I didn't have the fortune ofhaving a mother who was able to
look at her little girl and see,oh, she got some traits of her
daddy and I got to deal with herin one way.
(19:19):
And my sister, whose oldersister, got none of it.
She didn't get one teeny tasteof crazy at all and you know
everything she told my sister.
She told me the opposite,because Kathy was out in the
world boom, boom, boom and I waslike, oh my, God, yeah, yeah,
(19:40):
it's scary out here.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
Yeah.
But you know, I have to commendyou on taking that part of your
life and then trulytransforming it into something
so Incredible.
I mean, you really like I thinkof you know people like us.
We should probably not be doingmuch of anything, right, we
should be kind of just hopingfor the best.
And you know, walking aroundthe world kind of hoping for the
best.
But when you take that power andwhen you decide that that is
not going to define who you areand that you are going to make
(20:15):
those changes, I think itchanges everything.
And then you have a drive thatis just instilled in you to
never be that.
And your career and yourmarriage is so indicative of
that.
And I'll be honest, I washonest when I reached out to you
.
I knew of you, watched you onTV, loved you through the years.
(20:37):
But I will tell you, ms Stoller, watching you, ms Toler,
watching you announce that yourhusband was no longer with you,
and then your journey was one ofthe greatest things that I've
been able to witness, because Itoo and still on my grief
journey and watching somebodyfeel and be so real and just put
(21:00):
it out there and not be ashamedand not be impeded in any way
by somebody else's thoughts orreactions.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
Tell me about the man that you call Big E.
He was just wonderful.
I mean, I always say that younever would know who I was if it
wasn't him, because he was theone that was behind me, behind
all of that.
I had neither the bravery orthe drive to either run for
judge, win the election.
(21:34):
I mean, nobody thought I couldwin except him.
Even the guy who told me got meto run said you can't win, but
get your name out there.
And my husband was like I don'tknow who he thinks he's talking
to.
And you know, and going on TV,it was all him.
And whenever I was gone, Iwould be gone for months taping
(21:54):
Marriage Boot Camp.
He never bothered me.
He'd wait for me to call himbecause he knew it was the long
shoot.
And you know he it never madehim feel like less than it made
him feel proud.
Because you know, look, look atwhere I, look at where I got
(22:15):
her to.
You know.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
Well and his own inner confidence, his own belief
in himself, and that issomething that is so important
with with men in general.
I think men are able.
They don't realize well, maybethey do the power that they have
in relationships when they havetheir own confidence and when
they have their own worth, whatyou can do for the woman that
you love, when you feel that wayabout yourself.
(22:38):
It's amazing, especially forwomen like us that are very
strong and want to prove a pointand I've got this, I can do
this To have a man that kind ofsays it's all right, I got you,
I got you, I'm here and I'mgoing to make sure that you're
all right and I don't need yourspotlight and I don't need
anything, I just need you, andthat's where we're at Right.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
And that's.
I cannot apologize enough.
Don't don't If I knew what wasgoing on.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
Don't, I'm fine, I'm fine.
That is, tell me about yourfirst date, like how did he ask
you out?
How did this happen?
Because I want to know how itbegan.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
I was at a Cleveland Cavaliers basketball game and I
was there with members of my lawfirm in their loge and there
was a judge up there calledStephanie Tubbs Jones and I
walked in and I walked in, Ilooked at her and she said do
you have somebody?
She didn't say hello, nothing,hi, who?
Nothing.
(23:52):
I said no, I don't.
She said I got somebody for you.
And she walked me out of theLodge to the bar.
Her husband, josiah, and Biggie, were sitting one, two, three
and she said Eric, this is Lynn,lynn, this is Eric.
And when she drove me home thatnight she made sure she drove
me home that night.
She says when y'all get married, I want to perform the ceremony
(24:16):
.
And she did.
I saw it, you hear me.
I liked it when I saw it.
And the funny part was theother guy there, because I had
(24:41):
called me first.
They were both single and theother guy he was really good
looking too, both of them, butEric was cool, this other guy
was trying to be suave anddebonair.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
It's that confidence.
It's that confidence he had theimpressor.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
After this, that and the other, he had his little
jeans rolled up because theydidn't fit him right.
He didn't care.
Then it took him three weeks tocall me.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
Years later I said what took you so long?
Speaker 1 (25:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
He said because I knew he had just gotten a
divorce and he goes.
That's why Stephanie introducedus.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
Ah, she's trying to help him move on, yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
She was trying to get him together, get him back out,
and she said I knew if I calledyou it was real or it was
nothing.
I mean, you weren't somebody Icould just play around with.
If I wasn't intentional and ifI wasn't serious, then I wasn't
going to call you, so it took methree weeks.
Then I wasn't going to call you, so it took me three weeks.
(25:49):
Like he had just gotten adivorce and he had not
considered the possibility ofgetting a check, but it was like
I can't pass her up.
So it took him three weeks, buthe called.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
So what were you thinking during those three
weeks?
Did you ask your friend likewhat is going on the other?
Speaker 2 (26:08):
guy called and I got mad.
I said like what is going on?
The other guy called and I gotmad.
I said oh, they must havetalked about it and decided that
he could, he could pursue me.
The other guy no, because Iwasn't interested and I didn't
talk about it because it waslike the one I liked either
didn't like me or let his buddydo it.
So right.
I'll just move on.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
And you were just like it.
And where did he take you onyour first date?
I have to know.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
Cavaliers game.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
No, really.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
Oh, I love that Yep.
Speaker 1 (26:39):
I love that, so you took it back to the first
meeting.
There you go.
I love that and you know thething about confidence in anyone
but it.
But specifically in a man, Ithink when you're, like I said,
a strong woman, it's notarrogance and you know the
difference.
When it's not arrogance, right.
And for women like us, you knowthere has to be that level of
(27:00):
confidence, because if you'renot, I don't know I'm speaking
for us I'd run all over top ofyou.
You know what I mean, like, andI think that is what is so you
know important about buildingpeople up and I think that not
only culturally but you know,just across the board, we need
to do a better job of buildingmen and women up to have that
(27:24):
confidence and to understand.
You know trendy right now istoxic, like toxic relationships
are trendy Toxic cells, Toxiccells.
(27:45):
But tell me how you feel aboutthat, because it's really
disturbing to me to watch youngwomen like just allow themselves
to be made fools of.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
I mean, that's how I see it.
You're not a wife and if you'renot submissive and you go by
his thing and everybody, youain't nothing and all this kind
of stuff.
What they're doing is they'remaking short-term profits in
terms of views and a little bitof cash, or sometimes a lot of
cash, that youtube and tiktokpays and and and.
(28:25):
In return, they have sold thefuture of love.
You know what I mean.
If women are indoctrinated intothat.
I need a six-figure man, I needthis, I need that, I need the
other thing, and men are allinto submit, submit and do what
I say, and you ain't nothing andall this kind of stuff.
(28:45):
You miss the whole best part ofit.
All this kind of stuff you missthe whole best part of it the
whole thing was I gave him 100%of me, no matter what part of it
was, and he gave me 100% ofhimself and nobody was worried
about who was in charge or who's.
We were on our trajectory.
We chose this together.
(29:07):
Yeah, you know, we chose this.
This is what we are doing andeverybody she's got to follow my
program.
Ah, ah.
He had enough sense to knowthat my program, as he fussed
with it because my program wasoriginally I was going to be a
lawyer, I was a judge he may bea judge, but I wasn't going to
(29:30):
do nothing else but my programas he adjusted.
it was our program.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
Got us further than we ever would have been
otherwise.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
Yes, and I think that's such an important part
for for relationships is thatwhen you bring your whole self
and when they bring their wholeself together, you are something
that you would not have beenseparately, but you're fine
separate, and I think that'swhat makes the most beautiful
relationships.
And I find that I am much morein my feminine when a man is
(30:07):
secure in himself.
And I will be more and I saysubmissive and I don't mean it
that way, but do you know what Imean?
Like I find I flourish in myfemininity when a man is secure
and doesn't feel like he needsto tell me what to do.
When he shows me who he is,then I show him who I am.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
I've never considered myself feminine and I will go
to my grave saying I am notfeminine, I am not a chick chick
.
Yeah, I like to be in chargeand all that kind of stuff, but
(30:45):
my thing is, if I got a guy thatI know thinks I would do
anything for me, why wouldn't I?
do anything for him.
That part, that part, you knowit has nothing.
It's just like I like thisbrother.
Yes, um, I'll get in my car andthe seats all the way back.
That means he went in my car,he went and got gas, he checked
my tires and he brought it back.
That's what that means.
(31:06):
Yes, no words are exchanged.
He needs something.
He has a bad day.
I make him his favorite meal,not because I'm submissive, not
because he told me to, but Ilike him.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
Because you love him and you want to make him happy.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
And I want to make him happy.
And it has nothing to do withfemale roles or male roles.
We have our roles reversed.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
And that's the thing, roles we have reversed, and
that's the thing I think womendon't realize that you can be
strong in a relationship andstill have that compatibility.
As you know, you're equal andand you're, you have that part
of you.
But there is something niceabout knowing you've got a
partner, that you've gotsomebody to do it with you.
(31:48):
You don't need it, but you wantgot somebody to do it with you.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
You don't need it, but you want it, but it makes
you better.
I was 100%, he was 100%, we gottogether and we were 1,000%.
Yes, yes, yes, the whole isbetter hey.
I'm telling you this is themost pitiful interview.
(32:22):
No, it's the best.
I'm forgiven, I have not smiledthis much in a while.
Speaker 1 (32:30):
Holy cow, that's alright.
That's what editing is for.
I haven't smiled this much in awhile, that's all right.
That's what editing's for.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
Oh, I'm leaving someone in though.
Oh, I'm going to leave someonein.
Speaker 1 (32:42):
No, I want them to know how real you are, because
that really is what brought meto your TikTok page.
Truly, I saw the interview, thefirst interview you did, and I
was just like I gotta check thisout, like, and I watched you
and you know, watching yourgrief journey and then seeing
you not long ago.
You know it's been a littleover a year now year and a
(33:05):
couple months for you and youknow you said you had a moment,
and I think it's reallyimportant on Grief Journey to
just be honest in those moments,you know James Taylor is my man
.
James Taylor, I mean my dad.
We rode every summer to NorthCarolina listening to James
Taylor's greatest hits from thetime I was a baby and so when my
(33:33):
father was in hospice, that'sjust all we did because it
connected us and we sang and Iwould sing to him and you know,
and when you said that it justwent, it was like I knew exactly
what you felt it takes me tothe floor every time.
Speaker 2 (33:46):
First of all, it is a beautiful song.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
Do you know the origin of that?
Speaker 2 (33:50):
song His friend.
She put him in a psychiatricinstitute.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
Yes, and put it into her yes, yes.
And do you know that thatpsychiatric hospital was in my
dad's hometown?
No kidding, morganton, northCarolina.
Yes, broughton Hospital.
Speaker 2 (34:11):
You know, and I just found that out a couple months
ago because it was laying me outevery time and I said, well,
let me just see what thebackground of the song was and.
I looked it up and it wasbecause they put her in a mental
institution.
Speaker 1 (34:22):
Yeah, yeah, but isn't that crazy?
Like I always, I love the waythe world sort of intertwines
itself.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
Yeah, there's a certain synchronicity to it.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
Yeah, so what was your grief playlist Like, what
was it?
Because I became all aboutdistracting myself so I bit like
I went.
You know, I would just dothings, and one of the things
that I noticed when I would goafter that first year, you know
how, like your, your favoritesongs come in the next year and
I looked back on my playlist andI was doing some, some like all
(34:56):
over the place songs what were?
What were your sort of like Ineed to get and release and just
get it out.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
I would do like power rock songs, like it's probably
stuff you've never, never heardof, like last train to nowhere
by uh the gray hat the gray.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
Go ahead, now go ahead.
Speaker 2 (35:16):
I was just gonna say or screw you like me mean it.
It's not, it's f you like youmean it, but yeah, I mean, it's
just wrong.
Just yeah, like you mean.
I listened to Anita Baker.
Speaker 1 (35:31):
I got that you when, when people talk about grief,
you know there's so manydifferent stages and for me the
(35:54):
first night was very interesting.
I laid my I'm actually in theroom, this was my dad's room and
I I just laid in his hospicebed that night.
I mean, I just didn't, itdidn't feel real, but I didn't
want to let go Like I knew theywere coming to take the bed away
and I knew that you know.
And so what was that firstnight like for you?
Speaker 2 (36:14):
I got so drunk I just passed out and I did that for
two weeks.
I just me and Chopin potatovodka.
I would get up at four o'clockin the morning because I'm
always an early riser.
He had died suddenly out of theblue.
I mean people were in the houselaying floors.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
Keep going.
Speaker 2 (36:56):
They were laying floors, they were doing doors
and he was my accountant and hewas everybody's accountant, so
they had sent him all of theirstuff.
I had to send their stuff backto them.
I had to go through his.
I had to go to the hospital andfind his car.
Uh, it was just all day justputting out fires.
All day long, fire after fire.
People were calling his phone.
I had to tell him they weredead.
He was dead.
(37:16):
I mean, it was just.
It was just one fire afteranother.
I was supposed to have all mytaxes go out, you know my 1099s,
and you know I had to call anaccountant friend of his to get
get that done.
I didn't know where anythingwas.
I mean, we were completelyunprepared.
He was supposed to come home.
(37:36):
He just went in for an MRI.
He just went in for an MRI, soit was all about.
So I would work, work, work,work, work.
I do everything.
I would pack up his off.
I went through, I cleaned outoffice, I got his client stuff
back to him, I cleaned out allthe closets.
I cleaned out all the dressers.
I cleaned out everything by twoo'clock, I was hammered and I
(37:59):
went to bed and then I did itall over again.
Speaker 1 (38:02):
So you did what you had to and later, and later and
later and later.
Speaker 2 (38:08):
then I got off vodka, went to wine later and later,
and then, when I got to seveno'clock with a glass of wine, I
said I'm good.
Speaker 1 (38:17):
Yeah, and do you think that that was intentional,
like do you think you did thebusiness side of it and then
just literally just blackedyourself out to not think about
the things you didn't have towrite, could not run with it.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
Could not run with it , Because I have two sons,
younger sons, and they're mysons and they're my father's
sons I'm just going to leave itthere.
And so we were all struggling.
And I had one who was really,really, really struggling and
you know, he'd come get in thebed at three o'clock in the
morning, we'd talk a little bitand then he'd leave, but I made,
(38:50):
I made.
I was either busy orunconscious.
Speaker 1 (38:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:54):
One of the two.
Speaker 1 (38:55):
And when did you sort of hit that turning point that
was like, okay, this isn't goingto, this can't be forever.
And now I'm going to begin tosort of at least look at it.
Speaker 2 (39:10):
You know it's funny because I worry about things so
much and I worried about you.
Know, have you ever watchedHoarders?
Yes, I worried about becomingone of those people because I've
never been a neat person andI've had to become much neater
(39:30):
because I was married and hecouldn't stand it.
So I had this and a lot of themon there they talk about.
Everything was beautifulforever.
He died and everything went to,went to pot.
So I was mean on clean.
It was very, very important andI remember two weeks in cause I
was getting getting hammered attwo.
I called a friend of mine.
I said it's two o'clock and I'mhammered and I'm worried.
(39:53):
He said give yourself a month.
If you still hammered at two,we'll talk about it.
But I wasn't.
Do you know what?
I mean yeah.
And then I got a griefcounselor who wasn't very good.
Speaker 1 (40:09):
They never really are .
They really are.
Speaker 2 (40:13):
I couldn't figure it out no, and this one chick was
like I would always open up with.
This is what I did this week.
Yeah, and I would always behonest about what I drink, when
I drank it and how much I drank.
Every time I tell them.
And she said you know, we can'tget anywhere unless you admit
(40:34):
you have a drinking problem.
And I'm like bitch, what have Ibeen telling you this whole
time?
We got a problem I start outwith I had vodka at 4.
And I'm not comfortable withthat, so tomorrow I'm going to
have it at 4.30.
Yeah, I had a plan to fix it,but she was supposed to hold me
(40:56):
responsible and then tell me yougot to admit you have a problem
, Like why do you think I'm here?
Speaker 1 (41:16):
you know what mine did, my, my grief counselor.
I said to her because I I stillbelieve this, I believe that
people are energy and it nevergoes away.
And I would say to her that mydad's energy is still with me
and I have these conversations.
Do you know she?
She reported, as I was talkingto imaginary people, that I was
hearing hallucinations because Iwas bipolar, that I was hearing
(41:40):
things and I was havinghallucinations and I was like
I'm not coming back.
And that's when I realized thatI wanted to really and that's
how this podcast started,because it was so.
There are so many things that Ilearned during my grief journey
and watching other people gothrough theirs.
Not only is it a unique, it'sunique to everybody, a better
(42:09):
human being that I could haveever imagined, because I decided
to really do the work and sortof go through those emotions and
process them in a way that feltright to me, and I spent an
entire year just doing what feltright and I just would trust my
intuition and I would justallow myself to sort of grow and
evolve as it as it happened.
(42:30):
How do you think that hasshaped who Judge Lynn Toler is
today.
Like where did that bring youto and who are you today?
I'm not sure yet.
Speaker 2 (42:42):
I love that answer.
I, you know I take myself apartand put myself together all the
time, because I always have hadto, because I've always
struggled so mightily with who Iam and how I feel.
Yeah, so it was almost old hat.
Yeah, in a new jacked up arenayeah all right.
(43:09):
Okay, this is the problem whatyou gonna do.
Let the drinking go too bad.
You got to watch your kids, yougot to make sure.
All that, just just just everyday.
Write down what you need to doand just keep moving, keep
moving, keep moving, keep moving.
And you know, I called mygirlfriends who were widows, you
(43:33):
know and they would get methrough it.
I'd go in the closet, scream,holler and cry.
I'd have to tell my son toleave the house first because he
couldn't take it.
Speaker 1 (43:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (43:41):
And I mean, I would just holler.
I would you know, wear hisclothes around the house.
I would, you know, just act afool, and you know.
And then it slowly, slowlydissipated.
You know what I mean.
So, you know, if James Taylordon't say nothing to me, I'll be
all right.
Speaker 1 (44:03):
And I think what I have learned and I'm now I'm
almost three years, in JulyIt'll be three years for me I
think what I have learned isthat now I can take it as love
and I smile and I tell storiesand I realize how lucky I was to
have the journey.
Like you know people, I alwayswonder what's worse.
(44:25):
You know, losing them withoutwarning or having the warning
and I feel just so lucky to havehad the time to really do the
work and and and say the thingsthat I needed to say.
And do you think that you leftanything unsaid or do you feel
like each day you woke up andyou told each other, or at least
felt?
Maybe not told each other, butyou knew each day how you felt?
Speaker 2 (44:49):
I'd tell him I loved him all day long.
Good you know, I mean he'd bein his office.
Love you, that's for no reason.
Yeah, you know I poke my headin what you doing and he'd go.
I mean, we're goofing around,we were sitting.
I mean you know it was like,yeah, we done made money, we're
in a good spot, house is paidfor, we're going to put some new
(45:10):
floors in and we're going totake some train rides and we're
going to run around the countryand visit the grandchildren, and
that's where we were.
So we didn't left anythingunsaid and and I agree with you
that the fact that you had timewas was was my mother and I, who
were were extraordinarily close.
She died of ALS frontaltemporal dementia and it was
(45:48):
nice to be able to sit and talk,you know about it, and she
talked to my youngest son, whostruggles a bit emotionally, and
she got him together and it wasjust, it was nice, and with him
it was like it was sirens.
(46:10):
I mean I, he and I had beentogether longer than I had ever
been single.
We were together 34 years.
I married him when I was.
I met him when I was 27.
And I, just like I was, Icouldn't figure out who I was
for a second.
Speaker 1 (46:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (46:25):
You know cause?
I was half of the pair, thatwas us.
Yeah, it changes.
I mean, it really is youridentity.
Speaker 1 (46:32):
I mean, it is your identity.
You have your separate identity.
You now it's like I'm notmarried anymore and I don't miss
(46:59):
the companionship, at least notyet.
Speaker 2 (47:03):
I still miss him.
Speaker 1 (47:04):
Yeah.
Yeah, I miss him so and I thinkthat will never go away.
And I think you know, withmarriage it's very different
than when you're a parent.
Because you're a parent you canmourn that person sort of
forever.
And there's no, you know,there's nothing, society doesn't
make you feel bad about it, butwhen you're married it's like
people expect you to sort of getover it.
(47:26):
And you know I'm sure you'vealready been asked when you're
going to date.
Can I tell?
Speaker 2 (47:30):
you what people have been doing.
I get about 60, 70 messages aday on TikTok, about 20 a day on
Facebook.
Any dude with a penis and apulse has dropped in and waved.
Three of them were apparentlytold by God that I was their
(47:56):
next wife.
Oh they need to get togetherbecause apparently somebody got
somebody else's email.
Apparently, they all got thesame email and I had one guy say
to me and it was so funny, Iscreenshotted it from Facebook.
At 7 o'clock he said are youavailable to talk?
And at seven o'clock onFacebook the next day he says I
(48:17):
really think you're beautiful.
At seven o'clock the next dayis oh, I can see that you think
you're too good for me.
Speaker 1 (48:24):
Oh, those are my favorite.
Speaker 2 (48:26):
African-American women?
Now, I don't even this is anAfrican dude and I don't even
look at my messages, but once aweek.
Speaker 1 (48:36):
I'm honored you answered mine.
Speaker 2 (48:40):
And I look and I don't answer many.
Speaker 1 (48:43):
Yeah.
You know, I don't have anythingto say to a dude.
Yeah, yeah, no.
Speaker 2 (48:48):
I don't have anything and I'm not interested, Right,
but you are interesting though.
But you were interesting though.
Speaker 1 (48:54):
Thank you, thank you.
You probably was like, oh,she's crazy.
I got to at least see whatshe's up to.
Speaker 2 (49:02):
You want to know what it was.
It was how you wrote your firstwhen I first.
It's how you wrote what youwrote.
You write well.
Most people don't.
Speaker 1 (49:13):
Thank you, tony Morrison told me I had a gift
you wrote.
You write well.
Most people don't.
Thank you, toni Morrison toldme I had a gift for words.
You do.
You do, you write well.
I tell everybody that that's myclaim to fame.
Toni Morrison said I had a giftfor words.
If she had said that to me, I'dbe telling, I'd have that on my
Facebook page I did an event forBarack Obama President Obama
when he was running and she wasat the event and I did a thing
(49:35):
about autism my son's autisticand she said that to me and I
said just so you know, I'm goingto tell everybody for the rest
of my life as well, you should.
Speaker 2 (49:42):
As well you should so .
Speaker 1 (49:45):
Well, thank you.
I like to articulate how I feel, because I think when you come
to people in a state of how youreally are, I think the
authenticity allows people tosee you and then they can decide
if they want it or not, andthat was kind of my thing.
I'm going to send her thismessage.
This is how I feel, and if shedoesn't respond, it's okay.
Speaker 2 (50:15):
And I don't know if you want me to say this part or
not.
Go ahead, and if you don't, Ican take it out.
You can edit it out.
Speaker 1 (50:20):
No, no go.
Speaker 2 (50:21):
I I love honesty and awesome when you said I'm manic
right now, but I won't keeptalking, I was like, like oh, I
know where she is.
Speaker 1 (50:33):
I deleted that message.
By the way.
Did you see that what?
I deleted that message and Iwas like she already read it.
Speaker 2 (50:43):
I thought that's what made me.
That's what made me.
She understands what'shappening with her.
Most people will say, well, I'mbipolar and these things are
happening.
She understands it.
She understands it.
She knows where she is in thecycle.
She knows what that position inthe cycle makes her do and
she's currently fighting it inorder to get where she needs.
She's like me.
Speaker 1 (51:05):
Thank you, and I am so.
I'm so glad you said that,because I did, because this was
before I really learned aboutyour mental health.
I mean, I knew overall but Ididn't know.
You know to this extent.
So I sent it and I was like, ohmy God, she's going to run for
the hills and I deleted it.
But I knew I'd like I knew youalready.
I read it.
Speaker 2 (51:25):
I read it, I saw it and I said this woman is
self-aware.
Speaker 1 (51:33):
Yeah, you know you can do.
You can work with people whoare self-aware.
Speaker 2 (51:35):
even if they ain't right, they you know they got it
quite together that day you canwork with people who are
self-aware, and so that's why Idid it.
Speaker 1 (51:41):
I appreciate that so much because it is one of the
things that I have tried toalways be.
I've tried to be honest withwho I am and I've tried to be
real with people because I again, when you meet people where
they are, there's a level oftrust that when you're, when
you're being yourself.
And that's what I wanted.
I wanted you to realize that Iwas going to come to this with
just an honest heart and wantingto share your story and and the
(52:04):
things that you have done.
I do want to talk about thewhole brother mission, because I
think it's really important totalk about how we can help and
the things that we can do.
So just talk about that and whyit's important to you.
Well, it's interesting.
Speaker 2 (52:21):
I can't even remember how that brother got to me, but
he knew I was talking aboutblack mental health, and mental
health in the black community islike you know.
We have more problems in themainstream community because you
know, you know I mean for amultitude of reasons that we
don't need to get into.
Speaker 1 (52:40):
There is a disparity in services, there's a disparity
in diagnosis, I mean absolutelyA lack of trust in the medical
system, absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (52:54):
system, absolutely, absolutely.
And different cultural.
You know, it's just the Blackchurch has been resistant to it.
So there's just a whole lot ofreasons why.
And he was like, especially forBlack, for any man, they ain't
gonna sit around and talk abouthow they feel, even though they
need to.
So he was like they need totalk about how they feel.
So I'm going to open up thatconversation.
And he reached out I can'tremember when or why and I said
(53:16):
yes and I did the forward to thebook and I just appreciate him
and so I just, you know, if Isee you're doing something in my
life like I also have anothercall called Bloom 365.
Speaker 1 (53:28):
And we go into schools to teach people, teach
young women and men, how not tobe abused and how not to become
an abuser, and so if someonecomes to me with something that
I feel is important, you know,as long as I think you're doing
right, I appreciate that becauseI think that you know a lot of
(54:02):
the times when people get acertain level of celebrity, they
don't realize that there isstill an impact that they can
make with the you know common,so to speak, people, and I think
it speaks to who you are, whoyour mother was, the
relationship that you had withyour husband and your father I
think you're able to see allthose things and your father.
I think you're able to see allthose things and that's why, the
more that I began to learnabout you, I you became truly a
friend in my head, because I'mlike I know this, I know this
journey, I know and it's funny,I mean we we came from very
(54:23):
different but similar, similar,you know background and I just
love how honest you are, becauseI don't think people are honest
enough about I love that you'rehonest.
(54:49):
I'm going to have to go in a few, yeah, so let's yeah, let's
finish up, because I don't wantto keep you much longer.
I appreciate this so much.
I only have two more questions,or two more things I'd like to
ask you what would you say toyour eight-year-old self today?
Speaker 2 (55:05):
Stop worrying about it.
It's going to be fine.
Speaker 1 (55:08):
I love that.
And then I just want to ask yousome rapid fire questions,
because I love travel and food.
What's your favorite candy?
Speaker 2 (55:16):
M&M's Fast food.
It's been a minute Subway.
Speaker 1 (55:25):
Subway, ok, what's your favorite place to travel?
Speaker 2 (55:32):
I don't know, I don't go very far.
My my most fun vacation was, uh, I know, uh, the islands.
I love going to the islands, metoo.
Speaker 1 (55:41):
And what is your happy place?
Speaker 2 (55:47):
I'm not too rapid, tired this morning Still looking
for it.
Speaker 1 (55:54):
I love that.
Still looking for it, judge, Iam honored, I am grateful and I
just want to thank you so muchfor this opportunity and I wish
you all the best and I'm lookingforward to watching you
continue your journey and justbe an amazing and compassionate
person.
I appreciate you.
Speaker 2 (56:12):
I wish you well.
Speaker 1 (56:13):
Thank you.
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