September 28, 2025 • 52 mins
Today we hear from Dr. Dana Mincer, founder of Love Health Direct Primary Care in Fort Washington, Pennsylvania, to share her personal journey and the transformative impact of Direct Primary Care (DPC) on patient care and physician well-being. Dr. Mincer discusses her background in holistic and integrative medicine, shaped by unique experiences in Switzerland and Italy, which informed her passion for reimagining American healthcare. Dr. Mincer candidly addresses the widespread issue of physician burnout, drawing from her own experiences of exhaustion, depersonalization, and disillusionment within conventional healthcare settings, especially during the COVID-19 pandemic and her time in high-volume urgent care. She explains how DPC allowed her to break free from the rigid constraints and time pressures typical of value-based care models, granting her the autonomy to practice truly patient-centered medicine, focus on preventive care, and build long-term relationships with patients and her community.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr. Maryal Concepcion (00:04):
Direct Primary care is an innovative
alternative path toinsurance-driven healthcare.
Typically, a patient pays theirdoctor a low monthly membership
and in return builds a lastingrelationship with their doctor
and has their doctor availableat their fingertips.
Welcome to the my DPC storypodcast, where each week.
(00:26):
You will hear the ever sorelatable stories shared by
physicians who have chosen topractice medicine in their
individual communities throughthe direct primary care model.
I'm your host, Marielleconception family physician,
DPC, owner, and former fee forService.
Doctor, I hope you enjoy today'sepisode and come away feeling
inspired about the future ofpatient care direct Primary
(00:49):
care.
Dr. Dana Mincer (00:53):
Direct Primary care to me is like the yoga of
medicine.
It is the lifeline for patients,for providers, and for entire
communities.
I see it as a tool to make our.
(01:13):
Society to leave our communitiesbetter than we found it.
I am Dr.
Dana with Love Health, DPC, andthis is my DPC story.
Dr. Maryal Concepcion (01:27):
Dr.
Dana Mincer, DO is a familymedicine physician,
entrepreneur, and founder ofLove Health Direct Primary Care
in Fort Washington,Pennsylvania, known to her
patients simply as Dr.
Dana.
She combines her background as adivision one athlete daily Yogi,
and soon to be certified yogateacher with her medical
expertise to bring a holisticintegrative approach to healing.
Her passion for reimagininghealthcare began during
(01:49):
residency when after beingdiagnosed with two autoimmune
conditions, she experienced theshortcomings of both
conventional and functionalmedicine.
That journey inspired her visionto reconnect body, mind, and
spirit, and to restore trust inthe physician patient
relationship.
In addition to her thriving DPCpractice, Dr.
Dana co-founded Verity Advisorywith her fiance, Tommy a CPA,
(02:11):
and business strategist.
Together they consult withbusinesses on building
cost-effective, transparenthealthcare benefits, and
alternative to the traditionalbig five insurers.
She's also the host of theUnfiltered Doctor podcast, where
she brings raw, honestconversations about medicine,
leadership, and integrityoutside of medicine.
Dr.
Dana is a mom, personal trainerand outdoor adventurer who loves
(02:31):
bouldering skiing and paddleboarding with her family.
Her bold mission is to leave theworld better than she found it,
and to inspire others to believethe same is possible.
Welcome to the podcast, Dr.
Menzer.
Thank
Dr. Dana Mincer (02:46):
you.
Thanks for having me.
Dr. Maryal Concepcion (02:48):
This is such a treat.
We met each other for the firsttime at the FMMA conference
earlier this year, and it was soexciting to see you again in
Denver at the hint Summit andRosetta Fest combo there.
And I will say that, you knowwhat I loved laughing at, at
remembering what happened atRosetta Fest was that people
thought that you were you wereliterally selling a, a, a
(03:11):
cardiovascular product becauseyou were like, all over
cardiovascular health andpreventative medicine and
lifestyle medicine.
And I was like, no, she actuallyhas her own DBC.
And so we're gonna be talkingabout that today, but I just
wanted to call that out becauseeven people who didn't know you
could see your passion.
So thank you so much for joiningus today.
Dr. Dana Mincer (03:30):
Thanks for having me again.
I appreciate you bringing thatup.
That was, I forgot about that.
And that was very, that was,that was very humorous.
Dr. Maryal Concepcion (03:39):
Love it.
So I, I wanna highlightsomething from your past, which
I think is awesome because youhad studied visual
communications in Switzerland,so totally different country,
totally different way ofdelivering healthcare.
And something that has not beenhighlighted, specifically
Switzerland's example on thispodcast.
So I'm wondering if you couldtalk to us about your experience
(03:59):
in Switzerland and how thathelped mold your ch your medical
career.
Dr. Dana Mincer (04:04):
Yeah, so this is, it's so pertinent with all
of the different ideas goingaround, at least for me, about a
single payer system and what'sthe solution.
And you know, while healthcarewas free in Switzerland, I think
it really showed me that asingle payer system is not the
(04:26):
answer.
When you're, when you have thatexperience of being, and, and I
was right on the border, I wasin Luo, so it's the portion of
Switzerland that drops down intoItaly.
And actually my boyfriend at thetime, and I was, this was 20
years ago, was in a motorcycleaccident and he needed skin
grafts.
(04:46):
And it was like, and when he wasin the accident, he was actually
in Italy when it happened.
So I had to go down there andget him from the hospital there.
So I got to see both Swisshospitals and Italian hospitals.
And what was very clear to mewas, this is not what most
Americans would be happy with,with healthcare.
(05:08):
Not that they were like the,like the doctors, I'm not saying
anything about the doctors perse, but the, I mean, it was sort
of chaotic.
The wait times were crazy wereworse than here.
No one had privacy, like peoplewere 10 people to a room not
even curtains drawn.
And and I just don't think itwould be an acceptable level of
(05:30):
healthcare.
So I think that really got methinking when I came back and
decided to go down the path ofmedicine, which I think I had
been frightened to even tryearlier on in my life.
It really gave me a perspectiveon like that argument with, oh,
we need a single payer system.
We need a single payer system.
And it really swayed me againstthat and I realized quickly we
(05:52):
had to find other solutions.
Dr. Maryal Concepcion (05:54):
Sure.
So dovetailing on that, I'd loveto hear how your experience in
medical school was because youwent to the Philadelphia College
of Osteopathic Medicine and.
MDDO school, you know, we getpretty quickly exposed to the
way that healthcare is, youknow, accepted culturally right
now in this, in this countrywhere insurance is healthcare.
(06:15):
I wanna ask here if you had, youknow, very stark thoughts about
how this healthcare isdifferent, this type of
healthcare is still not optimal.
Comparing it to what you hadseen in both Italy and
Switzerland.
Dr. Dana Mincer (06:30):
Yeah, so a little bit about the osteopathic
portion.
I, one of the things that Iloved about Switzerland and
Italy was the way of life.
It's a much differentphilosophy.
You have breaks throughout theday.
Things shut down for mentalhealth time.
And I, you know, as a formerdivision one athlete, I had also
been dealing with the aftermathof a lot of just wear and tear
(06:53):
on my body.
And I saw an osteopath inSwitzerland.
In Switzerland, it's twodifferent tracks.
You're either in osteopath orsort of like chiropractic
almost, versus physician trackhere.
Or you're an md.
There wasn't a combinationtrack.
So that osteopath really openedmy eyes to.
(07:15):
What I sort of alreadyintuitively knew, which was the
connection of structure,function and spiritual values
and mental health.
And he really helps me a lot.
So when I came back to the US Istarted realizing, oh wait,
there's a combined path almostlike I can do osteopathic school
(07:35):
and I was gonna be anon-traditional student because
I didn't go back to med schooluntil I was 28.
So it just so happened thatosteopathic schools were known
to be a little bit morefavorable or look more favorably
upon non-traditional students.
And I think that's really what,what called to me.
From that perspective, I'm soglad I did it.
(07:56):
You know, there are a lot ofosteopaths who you go through
osteopathic medical school andyou have extra time spent in
labs so that you can reallyfully understand structure and
function.
We have a really goodunderstanding of the anatomy and
physiology of the body, of thebody, but.
A lot of people don't use it intheir practice.
And, and that's fine.
I think it really shaped mypractice today and how I view
the whole person, why I reallypush toward a more holistic
(08:19):
lifestyle medicine orientedpractice.
And although I don't specializein osteopathic manipulative
medicine and I, I will refer outoftentimes to neighboring
physicians who do do that.
Dr. Maryal Concepcion (08:30):
That's great.
And I think that's helpful alsofor people who are listening and
they're very early on in theirmedical careers and trying to
hear the difference between DOand md because I know it was a
very vague discussion when I wasapplying to medical school back
in the day, so that's wonderfulto hear, hear.
Now, you also are a familyphysician like myself, and that
(08:51):
is a whole layer of, you know,choosing a specialty that's a
lot of, you know, dabbling inlots of things versus focusing
on one area of the body.
And so I'm wondering if you canalso share with us why family
medicine.
Dr. Dana Mincer (09:04):
Yeah, you know what?
It's funny.
I almost I almost went intoemergency medicine and I'm like,
I'm so glad I didn't.
I really have this incrediblefaith in the universe, God,
whatever you wanna call it.
And I truly believe that I haveguidance that's larger than me.
I'm so glad I went into familymedicine now.
I think I would've completelyburned out in the emergency
(09:25):
room.
I'm too much of an empath.
I'm at times, I've been calledthe super empath, probably fall
into that category.
And while it was exciting in alot of ways, it, it's a lot of
the stuff that you see in theemergency room is very, very
challenging.
Not, not that it's notchallenging in different ways
with family medicine, but Ilove.
I love that I have the, thespace now to have authentic
(09:51):
connections with my patients andthe ability to have a long-term
relationship with my patients.
I love, I love that.
I think, I don't know how we canhave a positive impact on
someone without those twothings.
Right?
Because those, those, thatcreates a situation of trust.
(10:11):
Mm-hmm.
You have to have a mutual trustand a mutual respect in order to
have an effective exchange ofideas.
And certain conversations mightnot be easy conversations, you
know, if I'm a stranger tosomeone, and I, I, I realized
this quickly.
I, I worked urgent care for along time because I was single
mothering, and that was the,that was the space, the only
(10:32):
space I knew within theinsurance system that would
allow me to go home and not bejust like overwhelmed with
charts on weekends and evenings.
And I couldn't do it.
I had an infinite home and anolder child.
I realized pretty quickly Idon't have any space with this
person that I don't know, andthat's coming in for a seven
minute visit.
To sit down and talk to them oreven ask them like I feel like
(10:52):
they might feel like it wasintrusive if I was like, what's
going on in your personal life?
Like, how was your relationshipwith your partner?
Do you feel safe?
Is it, you know, like thesequestions that you're supposed
to ask that need to be asked.
But there was no comfort levelin doing so in the rush system
of insurance-based medicine.
(11:13):
And so I realized very quicklylike that I, well, not very
quickly, but after I had been inurgent care and I had done
outpatient addiction medicinefor a while, so I had a little
bit of contrast in that regardthat there had to be something
else because I wasn't helpingpeople and I was band-aiding.
Dr. Maryal Concepcion (11:29):
Yeah.
And I, I think it's ironicbecause I just spoke with a
bunch of chief residents at theuc, Davis residency network
yesterday and right before thatI had talked with residents from
my former residency.
And I, I just find myself beingso uncomfortable when I hear
fellow physicians, fellow familyphysicians talk about how it's
great that they'll see so manypatients in a day.
(11:51):
And when I calculated out whatthe average was, it was like 12
minutes or less per patient.
And they were, you know, withhappy, smiling faces talking
about how they're not allowed todo ob, they're not allowed to do
this or that, and they can't seethis particular population.
And I'm like, D.
I'm so sorry, but does anyonesee the problem here?
(12:12):
And it's very, veryuncomfortable sometimes for me,
and I've expressed this on thepodcast and to other people in
person, but it's it's very, veryhard sometimes once you've seen
what healthcare can be like tounsee what healthcare can be
like.
So, I, I also wanna ask here,because even just, you know,
being an, an empath, a superempath in your case I'm also
(12:34):
glad you didn't go intoemergency medicine because that,
that is rough, especially thesedays when there's even more
demand on er physicians.
But when it comes to your beingable to be empathetic because of
your experiences in healthcare,I'm wondering if you could talk
to us about how youintentionally then shifted from
(12:55):
the, you know, the, the, theservice models that you were in
to opening direct primary care.
Dr. Dana Mincer (13:01):
Yeah, so I.
I think it's really importantfor us to be vulnerable and
share our vulnerabilities.
And so I'm gonna share somethingthat I'm not proud of now, but I
I was that individual that youwere just talking about.
So, I was at an urgent carethat's a chain urgent care, and
(13:26):
they were known and it, youknow, before COVID, especially
for 14 hour shifts, so it waslike you would do a seven and a
seven, so it would be a double,but.
And then at the parties we wouldbrag about because we would get
paid on productivity.
So like the more patients yousaw, the more money you could
(13:46):
make.
And we would sort of joke aboutit and brag about oh yeah, I saw
85 patients last shift.
I mean, 80 to 90 patients in a14 hour shift was, was, was more
the norm at this place.
Wow.
And while that was great in oneway, because it gave me a lot of
exposure to acute stuff, like Iknew I could, I could maneuver
(14:09):
acute things quickly and realizewhat tests I needed to get done
quickly it quickly wore on mysoul.
I and I didn't even realize whyI was so miserable or unhappy.
Right.
I didn't, I didn't know whyinitially I wanted to quit
medicine.
COVID hit.
And the situation just got worsein some ways because the initial
(14:33):
COVID, I feel like I saw moreacute illness, like the wor
worse illness.
Mm-hmm.
And people, I had more than ahandful of patients coming in in
respiratory distress that we hadto send to the emergency room.
It was very scary.
And during that process, Iactually, I have a background as
(14:53):
a personal trainer and I am aformer D one athlete, and I
really started doing morepositive habit coaching and I
started experimenting withfitness stuff online and on
social media because I didn'teven know what I was doing.
I was just like, I have to getout of this.
I have to somehow, and I don'tsee a path out.
Simultaneously.
(15:14):
Thanks.
Actually, thanks to my momwho's, she was one of the first
female physician assistantsever.
She from, she graduated fromRutgers, I think she said there
were like five or seven femalesin her class.
She's in her seventies now.
And I had been connected withthe DPC docs group online on
Facebook, and I'd been sort ofjust stalking, I call it, where
(15:36):
you're just, you're, they let meon the group, you know, I'm sure
a lot of people do this.
I, it is, and you and I justread, I was just reading other
people's posts and I was afraidto post anything or ask any
questions, but I was at leastreading.
So I knew this other avenueexisted, but I was also
overwhelmed thinking, oh, thisis gonna require like me to give
more of myself, and I havenothing left to give.
(15:59):
I don't know when that turningpoint was for me in terms of
like when that transitionhappened where I realized I just
had to do this.
I think that, i'm reallygrateful for my now fiance who
is a really rational and kindhuman.
And he and I had a lot ofdiscussions.
We were actually looking intojust buying some sort of
(16:19):
business outside of medicinecompletely.
And my uncle as well, who'spretty rational, CPA you know,
him just saying you have to dosomething in your profession.
Like you have to, you, you, Idon't know if he said it like
this, but for me I almostthought like I didn't go back to
med school at 28 with a six weekold infant for nothing.
Like I sacrificed so much of mylife for this, for this, and I
(16:44):
don't know, at a certain point Ijust decided that it was time to
make the jump.
I didn't do it the way thatother people do it with a ton of
planning.
I just was like, well, I'malready 10 99 at urgent cares.
'cause I got fed up with beingforced to cover shifts.
Not that I didn't wanna helppeople out, but I was single
momming still at the time and Iwas.
I, I can't do this anymore.
(17:04):
So I, I went completely 10 99and I was like, I think I have
enough good relationships withall of the urgent care owners
around me that I can just pickup shifts.
And again, thanks.
Thank thankfully to somethinglarger than me, I was able to do
that.
So for the last two years of mycareer, I was 10 99.
And what that did was that gaveme the space to really
experiment with other things,and I was able to get like two
(17:24):
regular shifts per week and thenpick up extra shifts on top of
that.
And then as I transitioned intomy DPC practice, I was able to
talk to my.
Employers and say, Hey, listen,could I drop to one shift a week
initially?
Would that be okay?
This is what I'm doing on theside.
I need to do this for me.
And again, I relied on thatauthentic human contact with
someone who thankfully theyunderstood me and they were able
(17:48):
to accommodate and theyunderstood that, that I needed
to do this for myself.
And so that was sort of my entrypoint into direct primary care.
I hadn't even gone to a DPCconference in person yet to tell
you the truth.
Dr. Maryal Concepcion (18:01):
And I, I will say that you're pointing
out that you don't necessarilyhave to like to be able to, to
open.
And I will put here also that asyou're describing how you picked
up shifts and you you know, youwere, you had a good
relationship for those listenersout there who, you know, might
want to do something like Dr.
Menser is mentioning, but mightnot have those relationships, I
definitely encourage you tocheck out the Rise Up Summit.
(18:22):
A couple of weeks ago Iinterviewed the two people that
I'm working with to put togetherthis DPC Locums and Direct
Contracting specific conference.
So if you are wanting to do yourown direct contracting, not
going through locums agencies,this is where to go to learn all
of that as well as more stuffabout DPC.
So, check that podcast out.
That's exciting.
Yeah, we'll put that we'll putthat link in the notes.
(18:44):
But.
So let's fast forward then to,you know, a little over a year
and a half ago because you arenow at about 200 patients.
It's a very different world,and, and that's fairly quick,
you know, in terms of going fromin terms of how you mentioned
you didn't necessarily havethis, you know, long business
plan that was zero zero presignups.
Dr. Dana Mincer (19:06):
Yeah.
Dr. Maryal Concepcion (19:06):
Yeah.
So tell us about how, how LoveHealth Direct Primary Care
launched.
Dr. Dana Mincer (19:13):
I, so that's, yeah, that's a really
interesting story.
I think I made the decision, wemade the decision, I should say,
for me to do this.
And I that I think in two monthsI was up and running, like I put
this intention out into my ward.
I was already doing my yogaevery day and.
(19:33):
Channeling my intention andthings started to fall into
place.
I happened to be interviewingfor a medical director position
that I knew I could dopart-time.
And right downstairs in the samebuilding, there was this place
called Flourish.
And I'm like, what is this?
And I just, and it said,appointment only on the door.
So me being the Gemini that Iam, I'm like, I think I can, it
(19:55):
looks friendly.
I'm just gonna walk in quietlyand see what's going on in here.
So I walked in and it was allwomen in here.
And one of the, I said, well,what is this place?
And she said, well, this is likea collective, like we do
behavioral therapy.
And then there's the owner ofthe space is a pelvic floor
(20:15):
occupational therapist.
And you know, we have a, anutritionist in here and we have
massage therapy and.
I said, well, I've been lookingfor a space and this is sort of
my idea of what I'm gonna do.
You know, it's hard to just tellrandom people about, you can't
just say DPC'cause they don'tknow, especially in
Pennsylvania.
And I said, well, is there anycan I rent a room here?
(20:36):
Is that what you're saying?
And there's a shared space.
And she said, actually we haveone room left.
And in I think it was that weekon Thursday night, we're having
a, a networking thing that youshould come to.
And so I cleared my schedulebecause I, I have my kids on
Thursday nights.
I cleared my schedule and I justshowed up and it was like 60
women all in one spot.
(20:56):
And they're all different areasof providers, right?
Most of them out of network,right?
Most of them.
And Danika was here who had sortof made this space.
She took out a large lease andthen Subleased and I took the
room like within a couple daysshe sent me the lease and I took
the room.
I had one room to start with.
(21:17):
And that's, that was the birthof, of love health.
That was, I had looked into acouple of other places, but they
were all gonna require, youknow, they were retail.
So I had to$50,000 in a build upfee.
And I'm like, I can't do this.
I can't take this risk.
I have children at home.
And that, that was the birth.
And I, I would, I always tellpeople this, that I really
(21:39):
believe in trying to start, ifyou're starting this without
going into a ton of debt mm-hmm.
I think there, we have so manyoptions for space share
situations that can be verysupportive these days.
That I really think that's anideal situation for anyone
wanting to start a directprimary care practice because
you, that's really how youcontain costs.
(22:00):
And in my mind it's really howwe can con continue to keep our
membership rates affordable for,I always say affordable for most
people.
If my membership rates are lessthan what you pay for your cell
phone or your cable TV everymonth.
And that's an affordable rate tome at least.
Dr. Maryal Concepcion (22:14):
Yeah.
And I, I love that you'rementioning, you know, ways to be
innovative when it comes tofinding space to keep your
overhead low and to keep yourmembership as part of
contributing to your overheadlow.
Dr.
Marcy Meyer was one example ofthis season on the podcast who
talked about she's got space andshe's I would love if somebody
came here and, you know, usedthe space as an incubator space
(22:36):
before they moved into theirown.
And so, you know, it's, it's avery different world than the
non-compete BS that we see inthe Fever Service corporate
models.
So, tell us about the name,because I'm wondering with,
because there's some listenersout there, I'm sure who are
asking the, the chicken versusthe egg question, what came
first?
The the lease?
(22:56):
Or did you have Love health andtell us about the meaning of
love health.
Dr. Dana Mincer (23:01):
Yeah.
So I had, let's see.
I am.
I had the lease first before Ihad the name.
The name was born actually, wellobviously from years of, of just
experience before that, but theactual birth of the name was on
a phone call with Keen, who, ifyou don't know Keen, you know,
(23:22):
at Atlas.
And and I, I wanna just give himsome, some thanks to like,
helping me work through thename.
I wanted something simple and Iwanted something that really
communicated like what I wastrying to do in the world and
love just acting from a place oflove, speaking from a place to
love you know, that was reallywhat I could think of.
(23:45):
That's what first came to mind,and I, it's, it's something that
I wish that I would've had aswell.
Going through the system, I, I,we didn't touch on this yet, but
when I was in my first year ofresidency, I was exhausted and I
was actually to the point wherelike I was having trouble
swallowing.
I couldn't swallow liquids and Iwas fatigued and exhausted and
(24:06):
I.
I couldn't get time to take offto like care for myself.
And this is a prime example ofhow our medical trainings,
traditional medical training,even if it's osteopathic, it
does not teach us any type ofself-care.
It just doesn't.
And I ended up going to the GIdoc who you know, was on call
and I was like, I, I can'tswallow.
(24:27):
I don't know what to do.
And so thankfully I was able toget time off just for that day
to like, he took me in andscoped me and then I was able to
get to an endocrinologist.
So I was, I was hit withHashimoto's and eosinophilic
esophagitis like within a coupleweeks I think of each other.
It was just a disaster.
And I realized, you know, forthe EOE at the time.
(24:50):
I went to one of the top peoplewho was doing all the research
at one of the top institutionsin Philly.
And I just, and even with, withendocrine, I just was sort of
grossed out and disgusted withthe care that I got.
I felt very rushed, I felt verygaslit.
And when I brought upintegrative options, or even
just the idea of like an, anelimination diet, instead of
(25:12):
swallowing steroids every day, Iwas made to feel like I was less
than I was made to feel like Ididn't know what I was talking
about and how could I even beconsidering this?
I, I know the research, I'm adoctor, like evidence-based
medicine.
And then that led me on the pathto like trying out fully
functional medicine.
And I, I felt equally but in asort of different but equally
(25:36):
sort of turned off in a waybecause I felt like there were
like 20 different supplementsthrown at me and that, and it
was overwhelming the amount oftesting and I.
I just, I needed to find amedian, like I needed to find a
somewhere in the middle.
And I feel like that really hasbeen a theme of my life in
general is recovering from myown autoimmune stuff.
(25:58):
And not to mention when I was,I, in my late teens and early
twenties, I, I was suffered fromsuch horrible anxiety and
depression.
At one point I was hospitalized.
So, which these have all beenblessings because now it's I get
it, you know, I, I have patientscoming in and I can look at them
and honestly say I understandand these are all of your
(26:18):
options.
And let me just, let me justtell you like, medicines can
work so much on this, but I, wereally need these lifestyle
interventions to have you be ina happy place.
I can tell you I'm on the otherside right now, you know?
So anyway, I just realized.
Early on, and I think, I don'tknow if I realized it at the
time, but this really shaped howI structured my DPC practice in
terms of I wanna communicateauthentic love for people.
(26:40):
I'm very humbled.
I, I am blessed that people arefinding me to act as their
humbled advisor.
And I'm grateful for that everyday.
And I wanna bring that love andgratitude to my moment to moment
interactions in the world.
So I think that's really thestory of how love health was
born.
Dr. Maryal Concepcion (27:01):
That's beautiful.
And I will ask here too, becauseas you speak to these things
that have happened to you inretrospect, are a blessing
because they're enabling you tobe the person you are today.
And I love that because I thinkthat that is what we all are
doing, but sometimes we don'tnecessarily recognize that past
experiences are a blessing indisguise.
(27:22):
before this interview, you werementioning that your burnout
level was a 10 out of 10 beforeyou opened DPC.
And I'm wondering if you couldspeak to the, the differences
now and where you are on thatquote unquote burnout scale
because you have this practicewhere you can be in a
relationship with your patients.
Dr. Dana Mincer (27:42):
Yeah, so I just wanna put this out there.
I'm probably working more nowthan I was before, right?
As an entrepreneur.
It's just nonstop.
And we have four kids at homebetween the two of us, and we go
back and forth between twodifferent states because we met
long distance and it's aboutfive, five to five and a half
hour drive and we make it work.
And but.
(28:03):
I, I wanna just point this out,that oftentimes in the, when
you're in the midst of theburnout, you don't see it,
right?
It's the same concept as I say,like I, I, some, I find just
because of my past experienceswith narcissism in a
relationship I have, I'mattracting people that need some
(28:24):
assistance in that arena.
And I liken it to the samething, like when you're in some
sort of abusive relationship oroftentimes you don't see it in
the moment.
So I, I think that if there's,you know, other people listening
to this that might think thatthey might be a little bit
burnout, it's sometimes it'sworse than you actually think
that it is in the moment.
(28:44):
And that takes a lot of sort ofbeing present and mindfulness to
be able to come to terms withreally, at what level are you?
And, and then there are otherpeople that are sober burnout
that they're.
On the other spectrum, andthey're feeling suicidal because
they're so burnout and theydon't even realize, you know,
why, how, how the suicidal nessand the, and the burnout are
(29:05):
connected.
And I, I just wanna makeeveryone know that, that
there's, there's, there's analternative.
There's definitely analternative for every horrible
emotion, even if it feels at theend of the world there's,
there's always an alternativefor that.
It just might take a little timeto come around to and so now,
(29:27):
you know, before I remember evenas a burnout urgent care doc, I
would talk to other docs if theywere willing to listen,
especially if they were youngerthan me.
And you know, a lot of themessages that you get are like,
patients were callingfrantically throughout the day.
And the urgent care doc is busy.
And in our area it was singlestaff, meaning like one doc on
(29:49):
service at a time.
That's it.
And, sometimes people wouldexpress in meetings like that.
They were frustrated withpatients being ridiculous and
calling throughout the day.
And I tried to give peopleanother perspective and say,
hold on, wait a second, let'sflip this around.
So you ca you're the patient,you came in before closing last
night and somebody gave you anantibiotic and you're now having
(30:10):
a medication reaction, you thinkto this antibiotic, which is
common.
And now there's a new doc on thenext day that doesn't know you
and you're used to callingaround the primary care doctor
that you called said, we don'twant to deal with this, go back
to the urgent care.
'cause we didn't prescribe themedicine.
But then the, that primary caredoc couldn't see that patient to
begin with.
That's why they ended up waitingin urgent care for two hours to
see a doctor for five minutesmax.
(30:33):
And they're expecting thatnobody's gonna call them back
unless they continue to callfrantically.
So are we gaslighting thispatient by calling them crazy?
And my answer to that is yes.
This is our, we're creating thischaos, we're creating this
situation by, you know, by beingin this system.
The system is creating it.
I wouldn't say the doctoritself.
Mm-hmm.
(30:54):
But so, I would always encouragepeople to just think about
things from that perspective.
If you had more time, if you hadcalm during your day to some
extent.
And obviously not every day iscalm.
I had a patient emergency thismorning that I had to do
juggling act for a little bit.
But what would your empathylevel look like, if that makes
(31:15):
sense.
I got to a point where Irealized I didn't want to hear
what patients had to say.
And I was like, that is not whoI am in the world.
This is not who the universe,God, whatever you would've
created me as this and somethingis wrong here.
I need to really sit down andexamine this.
And thankfully, I, I'd already,I really, I really, and I'm not
(31:38):
trying to convert anyone to likea different religion, but I
really thank my yoga for this.
I, years before that, I hadstarted a daily yoga routine and
it wasn't like I'm going to ayoga studio every day.
It was like I come home or I getup in the morning and I do my
15, 10 to 20 minutes of yogaonce a day.
And I really credit that togiving, being able to give me
some insight into the fact thatit was me.
I was burnout.
(32:00):
I didn't wanna hear anythingmore than a superficial level
'cause I didn't have space forit.
It's like mm-hmm.
What I see it with teachers alot of the time, a lot of
teachers can relate to this,where they're going.
And my, my daughter's soon to bestepmom is actually a first
grade teacher.
And I remember having thisconversation where it's it's, it
can be challenging, but soyou're going, you're going to
school all day long and you're,you're like dealing with first
(32:23):
graders all day long and thenyou have to come home to a first
grader and it's just nonstop andyou have no energy left to give,
there's no, you have no oxygento put on yourself before you,
right.
There's not that concept.
So, I guess that was along-winded answer to.
I am working more hours now andentrepreneurship is definitely
(32:43):
not for everyone.
Let me put that out there.
It definitely takes a certainhuman to be an entrepreneur, and
if you are not that person, thatis totally okay.
I think it's really important.
There's a couple good books thatI can recommend for people to
read to determine if you are ofthat spirit or not.
But that's also leads me intoanother thing of why I realized
(33:04):
very quickly that going into DPCwas larger than just me.
I realized that for myself, Icouldn't just stop at opening my
DPC practice and having my 400,600 patients, that there was
something deeper in my gut thatwas like, I have to keep going.
I need to get to more patients.
I need to provide employment.
That's like lifestyle medicine,employment to other providers.
(33:27):
And it just was, it was largerthan me.
Dr. Maryal Concepcion (33:30):
That's awesome.
So I definitely want to hit onwhat is happening to expand the
mission of Love Health.
Yeah.
But I wanna ask here before wego there, what is your typical
week like?
Dr. Dana Mincer (33:40):
So the great thing about DPC is I can
structure my week however I wantto structure my week, which is
awesome.
Like I always envision this asfor anybody that comes on as a
provider that's not, that's notrunning a business.
Just manage your 400 to 600patients and you can set your
hours to Tuesday, Wednesday,Thursday, and you know, just be
(34:01):
on telemedicine coverage for therest of the time if you need to.
Or you know, like I go down toto my, now it's my other home.
I mean, it's just'cause we haveto manage two households in two
different states.
'cause we have.
You know, joint custody withexes and kids involved.
But I go down to Virginia forone long weekend a month, and
that's, it's, I love my, I loveour home down there.
(34:22):
It's in the woods.
And I can do that with DPC.
I have a one o'clock parade atmy daughter's school and you
better believe it.
I'm gonna be there because youonly get that chance once that
doesn't go, like your childrenare only having that experience
once.
And you know, and then there areother times where it's you know,
when my, if, if I don't have mykids, I, I work late, like
(34:45):
Mondays and Tuesdays, I worklate and I work long.
Sometimes I'm here at the officeuntil 11 o'clock at night.
But I'm also doing way more thanjust dealing with patient stuff,
like I'm developing a business.
And, and my kids may have anactivity on those evenings with
the other parent that thatthey're doing and that's just
not an activity that I go to ona regular basis.
And, and that's okay.
(35:06):
But overall, you know, like Ihave long days on Mondays and
Tuesdays when I'm having mykids, and then I have shorter
days on Wednesdays, Thursday andFridays, and I can drop my kids
off at school in the morning.
And I, and actually this morningI rode my daughter to school on,
we have a double bike.
She has her own bike, but she'sgoing to her dad's house this
afternoon.
So, so, and she was having alittle bit of a hard time
(35:26):
getting outta the house and so Iwas able to shift some things
for her and we gotta school abit late and we could take care
of her emotional needs.
And then on the days that I havemy kids, I'm able to do a hard
stop when I need to at threeo'clock to get outta here in
time to pick them up.
So it's actually really nice.
There is some juggling that hasto happen.
Sometimes they need to watch aTV program in the evening for 45
(35:47):
minutes to an hour while I geton the phone or finish up a
couple things.
So it's definitely a little bitof a juggling.
But overall I think it's muchbetter control.
I don't feel guilty.
I don't have to request.
From someone that I have timeoff.
It's, it's really justincredible in that, in that
instance, and if I have a sickkid, the best thing about it,
(36:08):
and I'm so grateful for mypatients, and I, I, I share my
personal story with most of mypatients.
At some point as they come on aspatients, and they all know that
I'm a mom and so I have a sickkid.
My kids either gonna come inwith me to the office or I
switch my patients over totelemedicine for the day.
And that way I can be home, youknow, and I can be present.
(36:29):
So
Dr. Maryal Concepcion (36:30):
I love that and I, I'll say.
That is something to expect inDPC almost.
You know, I have so manypatients who they hear the kids
shouting in the background andthey're like, just call me
later.
We don't need to have this visitright now.
Just call me later.
And you know, even if it's anacute thing, they're also fine
with, you know.
Deal with what you have to doand then call me when you're
(36:52):
free.
I'll be up late tonight, orwhatever it is.
And so I, I love that.
This is a, a thing to expectwhen you do have a relationship
with a group of people who alsovalue you as a, as a person.
And they understand thathelping, you know, take care of
you in terms of being members ofyour practice, helping you
financially, but also makingsure that they're taking care of
you so their doctor can be therefor them.
(37:14):
It, it's a very differentcultural sh cul, it's a very
different culture shift comparedto what we have in the
fee-for-service clinics whereyou're seeing a patient every so
and so, so many minutes.
So I love that.
so now let's talk aboutexpanding the mission that you
have at Love Health.
When you talk about havingexpansion of lifestyle focused
(37:35):
care delivery, I'm wondering ifyou could also talk to us about
how your, your patients are notseeing you every 12 minutes, how
you're delivering personalizedlifestyle medicine focused care
to your patients, and then howyou're expanding that into the,
the greater community.
Dr. Dana Mincer (37:51):
Yeah.
So, one of the things that Ispent a lot of time
contemplating was why lifestylemedicine was a separate
specialty.
I Sure.
You know, I, I realized I thinkthat, and not everyone's gonna
agree with me on this one, but Ithink that there's two main
(38:12):
reasons.
The one is that.
As physicians, we are not taughtlifestyle medicine.
We're not taught self-care inany, in fact, going through the
entire system between med schooland residency is like completely
abusive.
It's just, it's a terriblesystem where you get a, you get
high touch and a lot of hours,but, and I'm not saying it's not
necessary the amount of hours,but it does not teach self-care
(38:34):
in any way, shape, or form.
And so if you can imagine like alot of people just go straight
into that.
It's like they just school,school, school, school.
And there's not really like alife experience in between that
outside of studying.
And it's about, you know, just Ineed to get good grades so I can
get into med school.
The other, the other issue withseparating it was that the time
(38:56):
issue,'cause lifestyle medicinetakes time, right?
I need to, there's a lot ofstuff that we need to talk
about.
And you just can't practice itwithin the guise of, of a seven
minute to 12 minute visit.
It's impossible.
Even I find even half an hourvisits.
I need more time.
Yeah.
So, so basically I initiallystarted by just saying, well,
(39:18):
again, I was lucky because I'dhad zero patience when I
started.
And we literally, I, I think theonly thing that I've put money
into was I tried to get awebsite that was like SEO
optimized.
I just tried to get a little bitof help with the website and
above and beyond that it's justbeen word of mouth and, and so,
so my initial appointmentssometimes were like two hours
(39:39):
and sometimes they could stillbe close to two hours depending
on what people have going on.
You know.
sometimes my, I had up anappointment the other day that
went almost two hours for aninitial patient.
They just, they needed that.
Sometimes my initialappointments end up turning into
more of a positive habitcoaching, or more like a ther a
mental health, spiritual health,therapeutic interchange and
exchange.
(39:59):
And my followup appointments.
I've been still tweaking this.
Initially I had, I, I wanted, sowe wanna be able to show metrics
and so I have my visitspre-coded first with CPT codes
because I wanna be able to pulldata from that so that I can
show that to employers.
'cause I realized quickly, likethat's the, that's one of the
(40:20):
best ways that I can actuallyshow them value is to code
everything.
So my follow-up visits werecoded and initially were half an
hour and I actually justrecently changed them to 40
minutes because.
I just realized with who I amand who my patients are, people
just needed more time and I'mgonna, you know, experiment with
(40:41):
that.
Obviously there are still acute,more acute visits that I'll
squeeze in, but I always try totell people, listen, like for I,
I wanna make sure I see peoplesame day for issues that they're
having.
And that doesn't always meanthey're coming in in person.
I have a lot of visits that Ican do over telemedicine, even
if it's a musculoskeletal typepain issue, I can oftentimes do
(41:02):
that and I have them, can youpush on your neck?
Can you push here?
Do and I can do a full physicalexam that way.
And I'll usually tell peoplelike, Hey, this is an acute
visit.
I'm squeezing you in.
It's just, it's a 15 minute timeslot.
I try to give them thatexpectation in advance and
people are totally okay withthat because really, where else
are they gonna get seen same dayother than urgent care?
You know, and I think peoplehave an appreciation for the
(41:23):
fact that I'm like just movingthings around and making time to
get on with them.
So that's how I structure.
I don't know if that was likereally an, an answer of like,
how I structure thingsdifferently than insurance-based
system.
Mm-hmm.
I try to just really make surewe're giving people time.
And then obviously just like thegeneral model of it makes it
where we are able to get back topeople same day.
(41:46):
I just, I imagine myself beforegoing into medicine, having an
issue, even if it was just likeI had a really horrible sore
throat.
I don't know what to do.
It, it is 10 minute conversationmaybe with people just to figure
out a plan.
And most people are reasonableabout Hey, I'm not, I'm leaving
the office right now, but canyou take some ibuprofen gargle
with some warm salt water andcan you pop in tomorrow at this
(42:08):
time and I'll do a throat swabon you if it's still hurting.
Mm-hmm.
And most people are totally okaywith it.
They just, they need a, asounding board to figure out
what to do.
You know, I had another patientthis morning that I was, I was
actually more concerned forsomething and I ended up
ordering A-A-C-T-A of the neckjust based on the symptoms that
she was having.
And I am lucky because I've madepartnerships with imaging
(42:33):
centers and I've, I've beengoing direct to physicians and
organizations and I called upthe imaging center.
I said, Hey, I need you to getthis patient in.
They didn't have a, like a, a, ablood test for kidney function
within the last month, but she'shealthy.
She's had one done in the lastyear.
This, these, this is the issue.
And voila, they're taking careof it for me.
And they're actually.
Doing the, the the precert forme as well, though I did use
(42:56):
open evidence to, I love that bythe way.
I use open evidence to fightwith insurance companies all the
time because I can say, theseare the symptoms that my
patient's having.
This is what I need to order forthem.
I need you to write a letter tothe insurance company listing
with, with, with citations whythey need to be, you know,
covering this test.
And so I was able to send thatover to them for assistance as
(43:19):
well.
So I guess that's where thingsdiffer, you know, and when you
have more time, also, we don'thave to refer, like I had a
patient who I previouslyprobably would've sent to
hematology, but I was like, shedidn't wanna go.
I said, I totally get that.
Let me do a little moreresearch.
Lemme see if there's anyadditional tests that maybe
hematology would be gettingthat, that, that I can get for
(43:39):
you.
And just to double check andthen we'll regroup and you know,
it's amazing what you can dowith time.
Dr. Maryal Concepcion (43:46):
Awesome.
And it's amazing what you can dowith time.
Fueled by transparent pricingand ways to be innovative in
healthcare because you're nottied to insurance.
So wonderful to hear your yourway of creating a DBC ecosystem
and expanding it where you are.
So I love that.
Now, I want to close with thefact that your.
(44:11):
You are doing all of this foryour community, but you're also
continuing to take care ofyourself.
And as you pointed out a, a fewtimes now, self-care is not
something that is, you know,typically taught in med school
in the way that we becomedoctors.
Dr. Dana Mincer (44:26):
I've taught yoga before and I've been a de
yogi for a long, for many yearsnow, and I'm finally sitting for
my 200 hour teacher trainingcertification that has a trauma
and somatic informedcertification with it as well.
And the first step towardrealization of truth is
awareness, right?
(44:48):
I see this over and over againwith burnout.
There's a lot of anxiety andsometimes depression that comes
with burnout, and we're lookingfor quicker fixes in the form of
SNRIs, SSRIs, differentmedications or people are like
saying, I'm exercising everyday, like I am weightlifting.
(45:08):
And, and there's, I really tryto distinguish between, two
things.
What are you doing for your 10to 20 minutes of daily self-care
slash cortisol loweringactivity?
And most of us don't have thattype of regimen intact.
Like it's just not even peoplethink about yoga and they're
(45:29):
like, I don't have time forthat.
I have to get to a yoga suit, orI have to get to the gym.
And most yoga classes are anhour long.
I mean, it's the same pattern.
I see also with the positivehabit coaching that I do within
the realm of weight loss.
I hate calling it that.
As a personal trainer as wellmyself, it's like people see it
as an, it's an all or nothingthing.
Like I'm either gonna get to thegym or I'm not.
Like they don't, there's not amiddle ground.
(45:50):
So I, I would highly adviseanyone who's in that space to
just.
Put a YouTube video on.
Don't motivate yourself.
'cause by the way, motivation isa word that should be stricken
from the English language.
It is the stupidest word I'veever heard it.
I don't know who invented thatword.
If, if, you know, if you couldplease write me and tell me who
invented this word.
(46:11):
We have reptilian brains.
We are not motivated.
We are creatures of habit.
So we need to stop relying onmotivation.
Right?
You just need to get 10 to 20minutes a day.
Put any YouTube video on.
I can make suggestions.
There's, there's, I do itmyself.
I even even though I teach yoga,I don't teach myself yoga.
I put a YouTube video on'cause Ihave a lot going on.
And just get to a place of 10 to15 minutes once a day where
(46:33):
you're.
Yoga will allow you to get thephysical energy in your body out
like the physical asanas prepareyou for shiv asana, which is a
resting meditation.
Most people that I know cannotjust go sit down and meditate.
It's gonna drive you crazy.
It's gonna feel souncomfortable, like you're
jumping outta your skin.
It's and you are not alone inthat.
This is most of the populationthat I talk to.
(46:55):
And so doing something toprepare your body for a quick
rest and relaxation is gonnahelp tremendously.
And I don't know any other waybetter way than doing that and
being able to start with thattwo minute meditation at the
end.
That's going to bring moreawareness to your current
situation than that.
I can't tell anyone what theright thing is to do for your
(47:17):
life.
Like I, I see you.
I respect your sacred autonomy.
I respect your sacred humanity.
You in the end need to knowthat.
But what that two minutes oftime will do, and maybe it
expands to four minutes or fiveminutes, that will help to, to
really deepen your connection toyour intuition, which a lot of
us have lost over time, and thatin itself will help you decide
(47:39):
what the next step is for you.
For people that are consideringDPC or some alternative, I would
say just call one of us up.
Like just there's a wholenetwork of us right?
And if somebody called me upd,be like, Hey, can I, can I just
come in and talk to you andfigure out, you know, what's
your, you know, what does yourpractice look like?
There are times when I'm busierand I'm just like, I cannot do
(48:00):
this right now, but I'm also instartup mode.
But I'm sure there are a lot ofus who are not in startup mode
who are more than happy to say,yeah, come on into my clinic.
Come observe, whatever, come seeabout what's happening.
And just like that Facebookgroup with the DPC docs is
really, really, it's a helpfulforum.
It's, it's active all the time.
Plus there are statewide DPC I'ma member of the PA DPC docs and
(48:23):
then the Virginia DPC docs and,and just, it's, it's a great
place to start to see if thiscould be a good fit for you or
not.
So, and I just wanna put thisout there for anyone that's
really struggling with burnoutor depression or feeling at all,
like you're having suicidalthoughts, I want you to know
that I have been there.
(48:44):
I get it.
And there is another side.
There's al, there's there's,there's the opportunity to get
to that other side.
And you just need to reach outfor some help.
Who is the, is it Dr.
Pamela Weibel, right?
Mm-hmm.
That, that she's amazing.
If you're suffering at all.
She's got an incredible supportgroup online as well.
(49:05):
I find that oftentimes goinginward and making some changes
to the external stressors willcreate a whole new reality for
most people.
Dr. Maryal Concepcion (49:16):
Thank you so much Dr.
Minur, for joining today andsharing your story.
Dr. Dana Mincer (49:19):
Thank you so much for having me.
Dr. Maryal Concepcion (49:24):
Thank you for listening to another episode
of my DBC story.
If you enjoyed it, please leavea five star review on your
favorite podcast platform.
It helps others find the show,have a question about direct
primary care.
Leave me a voicemail.
You might hear it answered in afuture episode.
Follow us on socials at thehandle at my D DPC story and
join DPC didactics our monthlydeep dive into your questions
(49:45):
and challenges.
Links are@mydpcstory.com forexclusive content you won't hear
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Join our Patreon.
Find the link in the show notesor search for my DPC story on
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Check out DPC news.com.
Until next week, this isMarielle conception.
Direct Primary care is an innovative
alternative path toinsurance-driven healthcare.
Typically, a patient pays theirdoctor a low monthly membership
and in return builds a lastingrelationship with their doctor
and has their doctor availableat their fingertips.
Welcome to the my DPC storypodcast, where each week.
(00:26):
You will hear the ever sorelatable stories shared by
physicians who have chosen topractice medicine in their
individual communities throughthe direct primary care model.
I'm your host, Marielleconception family physician,
DPC, owner, and former fee forService.
Doctor, I hope you enjoy today'sepisode and come away feeling
inspired about the future ofpatient care direct Primary
(00:49):
care.
Dr. Dana Mincer (00:53):
Direct Primary care to me is like the yoga of
medicine.
It is the lifeline for patients,for providers, and for entire
communities.
I see it as a tool to make our.
(01:13):
Society to leave our communitiesbetter than we found it.
I am Dr.
Dana with Love Health, DPC, andthis is my DPC story.
Dr. Maryal Concepcion (01:27):
Dr.
Dana Mincer, DO is a familymedicine physician,
entrepreneur, and founder ofLove Health Direct Primary Care
in Fort Washington,Pennsylvania, known to her
patients simply as Dr.
Dana.
She combines her background as adivision one athlete daily Yogi,
and soon to be certified yogateacher with her medical
expertise to bring a holisticintegrative approach to healing.
Her passion for reimagininghealthcare began during
(01:49):
residency when after beingdiagnosed with two autoimmune
conditions, she experienced theshortcomings of both
conventional and functionalmedicine.
That journey inspired her visionto reconnect body, mind, and
spirit, and to restore trust inthe physician patient
relationship.
In addition to her thriving DPCpractice, Dr.
Dana co-founded Verity Advisorywith her fiance, Tommy a CPA,
(02:11):
and business strategist.
Together they consult withbusinesses on building
cost-effective, transparenthealthcare benefits, and
alternative to the traditionalbig five insurers.
She's also the host of theUnfiltered Doctor podcast, where
she brings raw, honestconversations about medicine,
leadership, and integrityoutside of medicine.
Dr.
Dana is a mom, personal trainerand outdoor adventurer who loves
(02:31):
bouldering skiing and paddleboarding with her family.
Her bold mission is to leave theworld better than she found it,
and to inspire others to believethe same is possible.
Welcome to the podcast, Dr.
Menzer.
Thank
Dr. Dana Mincer (02:46):
you.
Thanks for having me.
Dr. Maryal Concepcion (02:48):
This is such a treat.
We met each other for the firsttime at the FMMA conference
earlier this year, and it was soexciting to see you again in
Denver at the hint Summit andRosetta Fest combo there.
And I will say that, you knowwhat I loved laughing at, at
remembering what happened atRosetta Fest was that people
thought that you were you wereliterally selling a, a, a
(03:11):
cardiovascular product becauseyou were like, all over
cardiovascular health andpreventative medicine and
lifestyle medicine.
And I was like, no, she actuallyhas her own DBC.
And so we're gonna be talkingabout that today, but I just
wanted to call that out becauseeven people who didn't know you
could see your passion.
So thank you so much for joiningus today.
Dr. Dana Mincer (03:30):
Thanks for having me again.
I appreciate you bringing thatup.
That was, I forgot about that.
And that was very, that was,that was very humorous.
Dr. Maryal Concepcion (03:39):
Love it.
So I, I wanna highlightsomething from your past, which
I think is awesome because youhad studied visual
communications in Switzerland,so totally different country,
totally different way ofdelivering healthcare.
And something that has not beenhighlighted, specifically
Switzerland's example on thispodcast.
So I'm wondering if you couldtalk to us about your experience
(03:59):
in Switzerland and how thathelped mold your ch your medical
career.
Dr. Dana Mincer (04:04):
Yeah, so this is, it's so pertinent with all
of the different ideas goingaround, at least for me, about a
single payer system and what'sthe solution.
And you know, while healthcarewas free in Switzerland, I think
it really showed me that asingle payer system is not the
(04:26):
answer.
When you're, when you have thatexperience of being, and, and I
was right on the border, I wasin Luo, so it's the portion of
Switzerland that drops down intoItaly.
And actually my boyfriend at thetime, and I was, this was 20
years ago, was in a motorcycleaccident and he needed skin
grafts.
(04:46):
And it was like, and when he wasin the accident, he was actually
in Italy when it happened.
So I had to go down there andget him from the hospital there.
So I got to see both Swisshospitals and Italian hospitals.
And what was very clear to mewas, this is not what most
Americans would be happy with,with healthcare.
(05:08):
Not that they were like the,like the doctors, I'm not saying
anything about the doctors perse, but the, I mean, it was sort
of chaotic.
The wait times were crazy wereworse than here.
No one had privacy, like peoplewere 10 people to a room not
even curtains drawn.
And and I just don't think itwould be an acceptable level of
(05:30):
healthcare.
So I think that really got methinking when I came back and
decided to go down the path ofmedicine, which I think I had
been frightened to even tryearlier on in my life.
It really gave me a perspectiveon like that argument with, oh,
we need a single payer system.
We need a single payer system.
And it really swayed me againstthat and I realized quickly we
(05:52):
had to find other solutions.
Dr. Maryal Concepcion (05:54):
Sure.
So dovetailing on that, I'd loveto hear how your experience in
medical school was because youwent to the Philadelphia College
of Osteopathic Medicine and.
MDDO school, you know, we getpretty quickly exposed to the
way that healthcare is, youknow, accepted culturally right
now in this, in this countrywhere insurance is healthcare.
(06:15):
I wanna ask here if you had, youknow, very stark thoughts about
how this healthcare isdifferent, this type of
healthcare is still not optimal.
Comparing it to what you hadseen in both Italy and
Switzerland.
Dr. Dana Mincer (06:30):
Yeah, so a little bit about the osteopathic
portion.
I, one of the things that Iloved about Switzerland and
Italy was the way of life.
It's a much differentphilosophy.
You have breaks throughout theday.
Things shut down for mentalhealth time.
And I, you know, as a formerdivision one athlete, I had also
been dealing with the aftermathof a lot of just wear and tear
(06:53):
on my body.
And I saw an osteopath inSwitzerland.
In Switzerland, it's twodifferent tracks.
You're either in osteopath orsort of like chiropractic
almost, versus physician trackhere.
Or you're an md.
There wasn't a combinationtrack.
So that osteopath really openedmy eyes to.
(07:15):
What I sort of alreadyintuitively knew, which was the
connection of structure,function and spiritual values
and mental health.
And he really helps me a lot.
So when I came back to the US Istarted realizing, oh wait,
there's a combined path almostlike I can do osteopathic school
(07:35):
and I was gonna be anon-traditional student because
I didn't go back to med schooluntil I was 28.
So it just so happened thatosteopathic schools were known
to be a little bit morefavorable or look more favorably
upon non-traditional students.
And I think that's really what,what called to me.
From that perspective, I'm soglad I did it.
(07:56):
You know, there are a lot ofosteopaths who you go through
osteopathic medical school andyou have extra time spent in
labs so that you can reallyfully understand structure and
function.
We have a really goodunderstanding of the anatomy and
physiology of the body, of thebody, but.
A lot of people don't use it intheir practice.
And, and that's fine.
I think it really shaped mypractice today and how I view
the whole person, why I reallypush toward a more holistic
(08:19):
lifestyle medicine orientedpractice.
And although I don't specializein osteopathic manipulative
medicine and I, I will refer outoftentimes to neighboring
physicians who do do that.
Dr. Maryal Concepcion (08:30):
That's great.
And I think that's helpful alsofor people who are listening and
they're very early on in theirmedical careers and trying to
hear the difference between DOand md because I know it was a
very vague discussion when I wasapplying to medical school back
in the day, so that's wonderfulto hear, hear.
Now, you also are a familyphysician like myself, and that
(08:51):
is a whole layer of, you know,choosing a specialty that's a
lot of, you know, dabbling inlots of things versus focusing
on one area of the body.
And so I'm wondering if you canalso share with us why family
medicine.
Dr. Dana Mincer (09:04):
Yeah, you know what?
It's funny.
I almost I almost went intoemergency medicine and I'm like,
I'm so glad I didn't.
I really have this incrediblefaith in the universe, God,
whatever you wanna call it.
And I truly believe that I haveguidance that's larger than me.
I'm so glad I went into familymedicine now.
I think I would've completelyburned out in the emergency
(09:25):
room.
I'm too much of an empath.
I'm at times, I've been calledthe super empath, probably fall
into that category.
And while it was exciting in alot of ways, it, it's a lot of
the stuff that you see in theemergency room is very, very
challenging.
Not, not that it's notchallenging in different ways
with family medicine, but Ilove.
I love that I have the, thespace now to have authentic
(09:51):
connections with my patients andthe ability to have a long-term
relationship with my patients.
I love, I love that.
I think, I don't know how we canhave a positive impact on
someone without those twothings.
Right?
Because those, those, thatcreates a situation of trust.
(10:11):
Mm-hmm.
You have to have a mutual trustand a mutual respect in order to
have an effective exchange ofideas.
And certain conversations mightnot be easy conversations, you
know, if I'm a stranger tosomeone, and I, I, I realized
this quickly.
I, I worked urgent care for along time because I was single
mothering, and that was the,that was the space, the only
(10:32):
space I knew within theinsurance system that would
allow me to go home and not bejust like overwhelmed with
charts on weekends and evenings.
And I couldn't do it.
I had an infinite home and anolder child.
I realized pretty quickly Idon't have any space with this
person that I don't know, andthat's coming in for a seven
minute visit.
To sit down and talk to them oreven ask them like I feel like
(10:52):
they might feel like it wasintrusive if I was like, what's
going on in your personal life?
Like, how was your relationshipwith your partner?
Do you feel safe?
Is it, you know, like thesequestions that you're supposed
to ask that need to be asked.
But there was no comfort levelin doing so in the rush system
of insurance-based medicine.
(11:13):
And so I realized very quicklylike that I, well, not very
quickly, but after I had been inurgent care and I had done
outpatient addiction medicinefor a while, so I had a little
bit of contrast in that regardthat there had to be something
else because I wasn't helpingpeople and I was band-aiding.
Dr. Maryal Concepcion (11:29):
Yeah.
And I, I think it's ironicbecause I just spoke with a
bunch of chief residents at theuc, Davis residency network
yesterday and right before thatI had talked with residents from
my former residency.
And I, I just find myself beingso uncomfortable when I hear
fellow physicians, fellow familyphysicians talk about how it's
great that they'll see so manypatients in a day.
(11:51):
And when I calculated out whatthe average was, it was like 12
minutes or less per patient.
And they were, you know, withhappy, smiling faces talking
about how they're not allowed todo ob, they're not allowed to do
this or that, and they can't seethis particular population.
And I'm like, D.
I'm so sorry, but does anyonesee the problem here?
(12:12):
And it's very, veryuncomfortable sometimes for me,
and I've expressed this on thepodcast and to other people in
person, but it's it's very, veryhard sometimes once you've seen
what healthcare can be like tounsee what healthcare can be
like.
So, I, I also wanna ask here,because even just, you know,
being an, an empath, a superempath in your case I'm also
(12:34):
glad you didn't go intoemergency medicine because that,
that is rough, especially thesedays when there's even more
demand on er physicians.
But when it comes to your beingable to be empathetic because of
your experiences in healthcare,I'm wondering if you could talk
to us about how youintentionally then shifted from
(12:55):
the, you know, the, the, theservice models that you were in
to opening direct primary care.
Dr. Dana Mincer (13:01):
Yeah, so I.
I think it's really importantfor us to be vulnerable and
share our vulnerabilities.
And so I'm gonna share somethingthat I'm not proud of now, but I
I was that individual that youwere just talking about.
So, I was at an urgent carethat's a chain urgent care, and
(13:26):
they were known and it, youknow, before COVID, especially
for 14 hour shifts, so it waslike you would do a seven and a
seven, so it would be a double,but.
And then at the parties we wouldbrag about because we would get
paid on productivity.
So like the more patients yousaw, the more money you could
(13:46):
make.
And we would sort of joke aboutit and brag about oh yeah, I saw
85 patients last shift.
I mean, 80 to 90 patients in a14 hour shift was, was, was more
the norm at this place.
Wow.
And while that was great in oneway, because it gave me a lot of
exposure to acute stuff, like Iknew I could, I could maneuver
(14:09):
acute things quickly and realizewhat tests I needed to get done
quickly it quickly wore on mysoul.
I and I didn't even realize whyI was so miserable or unhappy.
Right.
I didn't, I didn't know whyinitially I wanted to quit
medicine.
COVID hit.
And the situation just got worsein some ways because the initial
(14:33):
COVID, I feel like I saw moreacute illness, like the wor
worse illness.
Mm-hmm.
And people, I had more than ahandful of patients coming in in
respiratory distress that we hadto send to the emergency room.
It was very scary.
And during that process, Iactually, I have a background as
(14:53):
a personal trainer and I am aformer D one athlete, and I
really started doing morepositive habit coaching and I
started experimenting withfitness stuff online and on
social media because I didn'teven know what I was doing.
I was just like, I have to getout of this.
I have to somehow, and I don'tsee a path out.
Simultaneously.
(15:14):
Thanks.
Actually, thanks to my momwho's, she was one of the first
female physician assistantsever.
She from, she graduated fromRutgers, I think she said there
were like five or seven femalesin her class.
She's in her seventies now.
And I had been connected withthe DPC docs group online on
Facebook, and I'd been sort ofjust stalking, I call it, where
(15:36):
you're just, you're, they let meon the group, you know, I'm sure
a lot of people do this.
I, it is, and you and I justread, I was just reading other
people's posts and I was afraidto post anything or ask any
questions, but I was at leastreading.
So I knew this other avenueexisted, but I was also
overwhelmed thinking, oh, thisis gonna require like me to give
more of myself, and I havenothing left to give.
(15:59):
I don't know when that turningpoint was for me in terms of
like when that transitionhappened where I realized I just
had to do this.
I think that, i'm reallygrateful for my now fiance who
is a really rational and kindhuman.
And he and I had a lot ofdiscussions.
We were actually looking intojust buying some sort of
(16:19):
business outside of medicinecompletely.
And my uncle as well, who'spretty rational, CPA you know,
him just saying you have to dosomething in your profession.
Like you have to, you, you, Idon't know if he said it like
this, but for me I almostthought like I didn't go back to
med school at 28 with a six weekold infant for nothing.
Like I sacrificed so much of mylife for this, for this, and I
(16:44):
don't know, at a certain point Ijust decided that it was time to
make the jump.
I didn't do it the way thatother people do it with a ton of
planning.
I just was like, well, I'malready 10 99 at urgent cares.
'cause I got fed up with beingforced to cover shifts.
Not that I didn't wanna helppeople out, but I was single
momming still at the time and Iwas.
I, I can't do this anymore.
(17:04):
So I, I went completely 10 99and I was like, I think I have
enough good relationships withall of the urgent care owners
around me that I can just pickup shifts.
And again, thanks.
Thank thankfully to somethinglarger than me, I was able to do
that.
So for the last two years of mycareer, I was 10 99.
And what that did was that gaveme the space to really
experiment with other things,and I was able to get like two
(17:24):
regular shifts per week and thenpick up extra shifts on top of
that.
And then as I transitioned intomy DPC practice, I was able to
talk to my.
Employers and say, Hey, listen,could I drop to one shift a week
initially?
Would that be okay?
This is what I'm doing on theside.
I need to do this for me.
And again, I relied on thatauthentic human contact with
someone who thankfully theyunderstood me and they were able
(17:48):
to accommodate and theyunderstood that, that I needed
to do this for myself.
And so that was sort of my entrypoint into direct primary care.
I hadn't even gone to a DPCconference in person yet to tell
you the truth.
Dr. Maryal Concepcion (18:01):
And I, I will say that you're pointing
out that you don't necessarilyhave to like to be able to, to
open.
And I will put here also that asyou're describing how you picked
up shifts and you you know, youwere, you had a good
relationship for those listenersout there who, you know, might
want to do something like Dr.
Menser is mentioning, but mightnot have those relationships, I
definitely encourage you tocheck out the Rise Up Summit.
(18:22):
A couple of weeks ago Iinterviewed the two people that
I'm working with to put togetherthis DPC Locums and Direct
Contracting specific conference.
So if you are wanting to do yourown direct contracting, not
going through locums agencies,this is where to go to learn all
of that as well as more stuffabout DPC.
So, check that podcast out.
That's exciting.
Yeah, we'll put that we'll putthat link in the notes.
(18:44):
But.
So let's fast forward then to,you know, a little over a year
and a half ago because you arenow at about 200 patients.
It's a very different world,and, and that's fairly quick,
you know, in terms of going fromin terms of how you mentioned
you didn't necessarily havethis, you know, long business
plan that was zero zero presignups.
Dr. Dana Mincer (19:06):
Yeah.
Dr. Maryal Concepcion (19:06):
Yeah.
So tell us about how, how LoveHealth Direct Primary Care
launched.
Dr. Dana Mincer (19:13):
I, so that's, yeah, that's a really
interesting story.
I think I made the decision, wemade the decision, I should say,
for me to do this.
And I that I think in two monthsI was up and running, like I put
this intention out into my ward.
I was already doing my yogaevery day and.
(19:33):
Channeling my intention andthings started to fall into
place.
I happened to be interviewingfor a medical director position
that I knew I could dopart-time.
And right downstairs in the samebuilding, there was this place
called Flourish.
And I'm like, what is this?
And I just, and it said,appointment only on the door.
So me being the Gemini that Iam, I'm like, I think I can, it
(19:55):
looks friendly.
I'm just gonna walk in quietlyand see what's going on in here.
So I walked in and it was allwomen in here.
And one of the, I said, well,what is this place?
And she said, well, this is likea collective, like we do
behavioral therapy.
And then there's the owner ofthe space is a pelvic floor
(20:15):
occupational therapist.
And you know, we have a, anutritionist in here and we have
massage therapy and.
I said, well, I've been lookingfor a space and this is sort of
my idea of what I'm gonna do.
You know, it's hard to just tellrandom people about, you can't
just say DPC'cause they don'tknow, especially in
Pennsylvania.
And I said, well, is there anycan I rent a room here?
(20:36):
Is that what you're saying?
And there's a shared space.
And she said, actually we haveone room left.
And in I think it was that weekon Thursday night, we're having
a, a networking thing that youshould come to.
And so I cleared my schedulebecause I, I have my kids on
Thursday nights.
I cleared my schedule and I justshowed up and it was like 60
women all in one spot.
(20:56):
And they're all different areasof providers, right?
Most of them out of network,right?
Most of them.
And Danika was here who had sortof made this space.
She took out a large lease andthen Subleased and I took the
room like within a couple daysshe sent me the lease and I took
the room.
I had one room to start with.
(21:17):
And that's, that was the birthof, of love health.
That was, I had looked into acouple of other places, but they
were all gonna require, youknow, they were retail.
So I had to$50,000 in a build upfee.
And I'm like, I can't do this.
I can't take this risk.
I have children at home.
And that, that was the birth.
And I, I would, I always tellpeople this, that I really
(21:39):
believe in trying to start, ifyou're starting this without
going into a ton of debt mm-hmm.
I think there, we have so manyoptions for space share
situations that can be verysupportive these days.
That I really think that's anideal situation for anyone
wanting to start a directprimary care practice because
you, that's really how youcontain costs.
(22:00):
And in my mind it's really howwe can con continue to keep our
membership rates affordable for,I always say affordable for most
people.
If my membership rates are lessthan what you pay for your cell
phone or your cable TV everymonth.
And that's an affordable rate tome at least.
Dr. Maryal Concepcion (22:14):
Yeah.
And I, I love that you'rementioning, you know, ways to be
innovative when it comes tofinding space to keep your
overhead low and to keep yourmembership as part of
contributing to your overheadlow.
Dr.
Marcy Meyer was one example ofthis season on the podcast who
talked about she's got space andshe's I would love if somebody
came here and, you know, usedthe space as an incubator space
(22:36):
before they moved into theirown.
And so, you know, it's, it's avery different world than the
non-compete BS that we see inthe Fever Service corporate
models.
So, tell us about the name,because I'm wondering with,
because there's some listenersout there, I'm sure who are
asking the, the chicken versusthe egg question, what came
first?
The the lease?
(22:56):
Or did you have Love health andtell us about the meaning of
love health.
Dr. Dana Mincer (23:01):
Yeah.
So I had, let's see.
I am.
I had the lease first before Ihad the name.
The name was born actually, wellobviously from years of, of just
experience before that, but theactual birth of the name was on
a phone call with Keen, who, ifyou don't know Keen, you know,
(23:22):
at Atlas.
And and I, I wanna just give himsome, some thanks to like,
helping me work through thename.
I wanted something simple and Iwanted something that really
communicated like what I wastrying to do in the world and
love just acting from a place oflove, speaking from a place to
love you know, that was reallywhat I could think of.
(23:45):
That's what first came to mind,and I, it's, it's something that
I wish that I would've had aswell.
Going through the system, I, I,we didn't touch on this yet, but
when I was in my first year ofresidency, I was exhausted and I
was actually to the point wherelike I was having trouble
swallowing.
I couldn't swallow liquids and Iwas fatigued and exhausted and
(24:06):
I.
I couldn't get time to take offto like care for myself.
And this is a prime example ofhow our medical trainings,
traditional medical training,even if it's osteopathic, it
does not teach us any type ofself-care.
It just doesn't.
And I ended up going to the GIdoc who you know, was on call
and I was like, I, I can'tswallow.
(24:27):
I don't know what to do.
And so thankfully I was able toget time off just for that day
to like, he took me in andscoped me and then I was able to
get to an endocrinologist.
So I was, I was hit withHashimoto's and eosinophilic
esophagitis like within a coupleweeks I think of each other.
It was just a disaster.
And I realized, you know, forthe EOE at the time.
(24:50):
I went to one of the top peoplewho was doing all the research
at one of the top institutionsin Philly.
And I just, and even with, withendocrine, I just was sort of
grossed out and disgusted withthe care that I got.
I felt very rushed, I felt verygaslit.
And when I brought upintegrative options, or even
just the idea of like an, anelimination diet, instead of
(25:12):
swallowing steroids every day, Iwas made to feel like I was less
than I was made to feel like Ididn't know what I was talking
about and how could I even beconsidering this?
I, I know the research, I'm adoctor, like evidence-based
medicine.
And then that led me on the pathto like trying out fully
functional medicine.
And I, I felt equally but in asort of different but equally
(25:36):
sort of turned off in a waybecause I felt like there were
like 20 different supplementsthrown at me and that, and it
was overwhelming the amount oftesting and I.
I just, I needed to find amedian, like I needed to find a
somewhere in the middle.
And I feel like that really hasbeen a theme of my life in
general is recovering from myown autoimmune stuff.
(25:58):
And not to mention when I was,I, in my late teens and early
twenties, I, I was suffered fromsuch horrible anxiety and
depression.
At one point I was hospitalized.
So, which these have all beenblessings because now it's I get
it, you know, I, I have patientscoming in and I can look at them
and honestly say I understandand these are all of your
(26:18):
options.
And let me just, let me justtell you like, medicines can
work so much on this, but I, wereally need these lifestyle
interventions to have you be ina happy place.
I can tell you I'm on the otherside right now, you know?
So anyway, I just realized.
Early on, and I think, I don'tknow if I realized it at the
time, but this really shaped howI structured my DPC practice in
terms of I wanna communicateauthentic love for people.
(26:40):
I'm very humbled.
I, I am blessed that people arefinding me to act as their
humbled advisor.
And I'm grateful for that everyday.
And I wanna bring that love andgratitude to my moment to moment
interactions in the world.
So I think that's really thestory of how love health was
born.
Dr. Maryal Concepcion (27:01):
That's beautiful.
And I will ask here too, becauseas you speak to these things
that have happened to you inretrospect, are a blessing
because they're enabling you tobe the person you are today.
And I love that because I thinkthat that is what we all are
doing, but sometimes we don'tnecessarily recognize that past
experiences are a blessing indisguise.
(27:22):
before this interview, you werementioning that your burnout
level was a 10 out of 10 beforeyou opened DPC.
And I'm wondering if you couldspeak to the, the differences
now and where you are on thatquote unquote burnout scale
because you have this practicewhere you can be in a
relationship with your patients.
Dr. Dana Mincer (27:42):
Yeah, so I just wanna put this out there.
I'm probably working more nowthan I was before, right?
As an entrepreneur.
It's just nonstop.
And we have four kids at homebetween the two of us, and we go
back and forth between twodifferent states because we met
long distance and it's aboutfive, five to five and a half
hour drive and we make it work.
And but.
(28:03):
I, I wanna just point this out,that oftentimes in the, when
you're in the midst of theburnout, you don't see it,
right?
It's the same concept as I say,like I, I, some, I find just
because of my past experienceswith narcissism in a
relationship I have, I'mattracting people that need some
(28:24):
assistance in that arena.
And I liken it to the samething, like when you're in some
sort of abusive relationship oroftentimes you don't see it in
the moment.
So I, I think that if there's,you know, other people listening
to this that might think thatthey might be a little bit
burnout, it's sometimes it'sworse than you actually think
that it is in the moment.
(28:44):
And that takes a lot of sort ofbeing present and mindfulness to
be able to come to terms withreally, at what level are you?
And, and then there are otherpeople that are sober burnout
that they're.
On the other spectrum, andthey're feeling suicidal because
they're so burnout and theydon't even realize, you know,
why, how, how the suicidal nessand the, and the burnout are
(29:05):
connected.
And I, I just wanna makeeveryone know that, that
there's, there's, there's analternative.
There's definitely analternative for every horrible
emotion, even if it feels at theend of the world there's,
there's always an alternativefor that.
It just might take a little timeto come around to and so now,
(29:27):
you know, before I remember evenas a burnout urgent care doc, I
would talk to other docs if theywere willing to listen,
especially if they were youngerthan me.
And you know, a lot of themessages that you get are like,
patients were callingfrantically throughout the day.
And the urgent care doc is busy.
And in our area it was singlestaff, meaning like one doc on
(29:49):
service at a time.
That's it.
And, sometimes people wouldexpress in meetings like that.
They were frustrated withpatients being ridiculous and
calling throughout the day.
And I tried to give peopleanother perspective and say,
hold on, wait a second, let'sflip this around.
So you ca you're the patient,you came in before closing last
night and somebody gave you anantibiotic and you're now having
(30:10):
a medication reaction, you thinkto this antibiotic, which is
common.
And now there's a new doc on thenext day that doesn't know you
and you're used to callingaround the primary care doctor
that you called said, we don'twant to deal with this, go back
to the urgent care.
'cause we didn't prescribe themedicine.
But then the, that primary caredoc couldn't see that patient to
begin with.
That's why they ended up waitingin urgent care for two hours to
see a doctor for five minutesmax.
(30:33):
And they're expecting thatnobody's gonna call them back
unless they continue to callfrantically.
So are we gaslighting thispatient by calling them crazy?
And my answer to that is yes.
This is our, we're creating thischaos, we're creating this
situation by, you know, by beingin this system.
The system is creating it.
I wouldn't say the doctoritself.
Mm-hmm.
(30:54):
But so, I would always encouragepeople to just think about
things from that perspective.
If you had more time, if you hadcalm during your day to some
extent.
And obviously not every day iscalm.
I had a patient emergency thismorning that I had to do
juggling act for a little bit.
But what would your empathylevel look like, if that makes
(31:15):
sense.
I got to a point where Irealized I didn't want to hear
what patients had to say.
And I was like, that is not whoI am in the world.
This is not who the universe,God, whatever you would've
created me as this and somethingis wrong here.
I need to really sit down andexamine this.
And thankfully, I, I'd already,I really, I really, and I'm not
(31:38):
trying to convert anyone to likea different religion, but I
really thank my yoga for this.
I, years before that, I hadstarted a daily yoga routine and
it wasn't like I'm going to ayoga studio every day.
It was like I come home or I getup in the morning and I do my
15, 10 to 20 minutes of yogaonce a day.
And I really credit that togiving, being able to give me
some insight into the fact thatit was me.
I was burnout.
(32:00):
I didn't wanna hear anythingmore than a superficial level
'cause I didn't have space forit.
It's like mm-hmm.
What I see it with teachers alot of the time, a lot of
teachers can relate to this,where they're going.
And my, my daughter's soon to bestepmom is actually a first
grade teacher.
And I remember having thisconversation where it's it's, it
can be challenging, but soyou're going, you're going to
school all day long and you're,you're like dealing with first
(32:23):
graders all day long and thenyou have to come home to a first
grader and it's just nonstop andyou have no energy left to give,
there's no, you have no oxygento put on yourself before you,
right.
There's not that concept.
So, I guess that was along-winded answer to.
I am working more hours now andentrepreneurship is definitely
(32:43):
not for everyone.
Let me put that out there.
It definitely takes a certainhuman to be an entrepreneur, and
if you are not that person, thatis totally okay.
I think it's really important.
There's a couple good books thatI can recommend for people to
read to determine if you are ofthat spirit or not.
But that's also leads me intoanother thing of why I realized
(33:04):
very quickly that going into DPCwas larger than just me.
I realized that for myself, Icouldn't just stop at opening my
DPC practice and having my 400,600 patients, that there was
something deeper in my gut thatwas like, I have to keep going.
I need to get to more patients.
I need to provide employment.
That's like lifestyle medicine,employment to other providers.
(33:27):
And it just was, it was largerthan me.
Dr. Maryal Concepcion (33:30):
That's awesome.
So I definitely want to hit onwhat is happening to expand the
mission of Love Health.
Yeah.
But I wanna ask here before wego there, what is your typical
week like?
Dr. Dana Mincer (33:40):
So the great thing about DPC is I can
structure my week however I wantto structure my week, which is
awesome.
Like I always envision this asfor anybody that comes on as a
provider that's not, that's notrunning a business.
Just manage your 400 to 600patients and you can set your
hours to Tuesday, Wednesday,Thursday, and you know, just be
(34:01):
on telemedicine coverage for therest of the time if you need to.
Or you know, like I go down toto my, now it's my other home.
I mean, it's just'cause we haveto manage two households in two
different states.
'cause we have.
You know, joint custody withexes and kids involved.
But I go down to Virginia forone long weekend a month, and
that's, it's, I love my, I loveour home down there.
(34:22):
It's in the woods.
And I can do that with DPC.
I have a one o'clock parade atmy daughter's school and you
better believe it.
I'm gonna be there because youonly get that chance once that
doesn't go, like your childrenare only having that experience
once.
And you know, and then there areother times where it's you know,
when my, if, if I don't have mykids, I, I work late, like
(34:45):
Mondays and Tuesdays, I worklate and I work long.
Sometimes I'm here at the officeuntil 11 o'clock at night.
But I'm also doing way more thanjust dealing with patient stuff,
like I'm developing a business.
And, and my kids may have anactivity on those evenings with
the other parent that thatthey're doing and that's just
not an activity that I go to ona regular basis.
And, and that's okay.
(35:06):
But overall, you know, like Ihave long days on Mondays and
Tuesdays when I'm having mykids, and then I have shorter
days on Wednesdays, Thursday andFridays, and I can drop my kids
off at school in the morning.
And I, and actually this morningI rode my daughter to school on,
we have a double bike.
She has her own bike, but she'sgoing to her dad's house this
afternoon.
So, so, and she was having alittle bit of a hard time
(35:26):
getting outta the house and so Iwas able to shift some things
for her and we gotta school abit late and we could take care
of her emotional needs.
And then on the days that I havemy kids, I'm able to do a hard
stop when I need to at threeo'clock to get outta here in
time to pick them up.
So it's actually really nice.
There is some juggling that hasto happen.
Sometimes they need to watch aTV program in the evening for 45
(35:47):
minutes to an hour while I geton the phone or finish up a
couple things.
So it's definitely a little bitof a juggling.
But overall I think it's muchbetter control.
I don't feel guilty.
I don't have to request.
From someone that I have timeoff.
It's, it's really justincredible in that, in that
instance, and if I have a sickkid, the best thing about it,
(36:08):
and I'm so grateful for mypatients, and I, I, I share my
personal story with most of mypatients.
At some point as they come on aspatients, and they all know that
I'm a mom and so I have a sickkid.
My kids either gonna come inwith me to the office or I
switch my patients over totelemedicine for the day.
And that way I can be home, youknow, and I can be present.
(36:29):
So
Dr. Maryal Concepcion (36:30):
I love that and I, I'll say.
That is something to expect inDPC almost.
You know, I have so manypatients who they hear the kids
shouting in the background andthey're like, just call me
later.
We don't need to have this visitright now.
Just call me later.
And you know, even if it's anacute thing, they're also fine
with, you know.
Deal with what you have to doand then call me when you're
(36:52):
free.
I'll be up late tonight, orwhatever it is.
And so I, I love that.
This is a, a thing to expectwhen you do have a relationship
with a group of people who alsovalue you as a, as a person.
And they understand thathelping, you know, take care of
you in terms of being members ofyour practice, helping you
financially, but also makingsure that they're taking care of
you so their doctor can be therefor them.
(37:14):
It, it's a very differentcultural sh cul, it's a very
different culture shift comparedto what we have in the
fee-for-service clinics whereyou're seeing a patient every so
and so, so many minutes.
So I love that.
so now let's talk aboutexpanding the mission that you
have at Love Health.
When you talk about havingexpansion of lifestyle focused
(37:35):
care delivery, I'm wondering ifyou could also talk to us about
how your, your patients are notseeing you every 12 minutes, how
you're delivering personalizedlifestyle medicine focused care
to your patients, and then howyou're expanding that into the,
the greater community.
Dr. Dana Mincer (37:51):
Yeah.
So, one of the things that Ispent a lot of time
contemplating was why lifestylemedicine was a separate
specialty.
I Sure.
You know, I, I realized I thinkthat, and not everyone's gonna
agree with me on this one, but Ithink that there's two main
(38:12):
reasons.
The one is that.
As physicians, we are not taughtlifestyle medicine.
We're not taught self-care inany, in fact, going through the
entire system between med schooland residency is like completely
abusive.
It's just, it's a terriblesystem where you get a, you get
high touch and a lot of hours,but, and I'm not saying it's not
necessary the amount of hours,but it does not teach self-care
(38:34):
in any way, shape, or form.
And so if you can imagine like alot of people just go straight
into that.
It's like they just school,school, school, school.
And there's not really like alife experience in between that
outside of studying.
And it's about, you know, just Ineed to get good grades so I can
get into med school.
The other, the other issue withseparating it was that the time
(38:56):
issue,'cause lifestyle medicinetakes time, right?
I need to, there's a lot ofstuff that we need to talk
about.
And you just can't practice itwithin the guise of, of a seven
minute to 12 minute visit.
It's impossible.
Even I find even half an hourvisits.
I need more time.
Yeah.
So, so basically I initiallystarted by just saying, well,
(39:18):
again, I was lucky because I'dhad zero patience when I
started.
And we literally, I, I think theonly thing that I've put money
into was I tried to get awebsite that was like SEO
optimized.
I just tried to get a little bitof help with the website and
above and beyond that it's justbeen word of mouth and, and so,
so my initial appointmentssometimes were like two hours
(39:39):
and sometimes they could stillbe close to two hours depending
on what people have going on.
You know.
sometimes my, I had up anappointment the other day that
went almost two hours for aninitial patient.
They just, they needed that.
Sometimes my initialappointments end up turning into
more of a positive habitcoaching, or more like a ther a
mental health, spiritual health,therapeutic interchange and
exchange.
(39:59):
And my followup appointments.
I've been still tweaking this.
Initially I had, I, I wanted, sowe wanna be able to show metrics
and so I have my visitspre-coded first with CPT codes
because I wanna be able to pulldata from that so that I can
show that to employers.
'cause I realized quickly, likethat's the, that's one of the
(40:20):
best ways that I can actuallyshow them value is to code
everything.
So my follow-up visits werecoded and initially were half an
hour and I actually justrecently changed them to 40
minutes because.
I just realized with who I amand who my patients are, people
just needed more time and I'mgonna, you know, experiment with
(40:41):
that.
Obviously there are still acute,more acute visits that I'll
squeeze in, but I always try totell people, listen, like for I,
I wanna make sure I see peoplesame day for issues that they're
having.
And that doesn't always meanthey're coming in in person.
I have a lot of visits that Ican do over telemedicine, even
if it's a musculoskeletal typepain issue, I can oftentimes do
(41:02):
that and I have them, can youpush on your neck?
Can you push here?
Do and I can do a full physicalexam that way.
And I'll usually tell peoplelike, Hey, this is an acute
visit.
I'm squeezing you in.
It's just, it's a 15 minute timeslot.
I try to give them thatexpectation in advance and
people are totally okay withthat because really, where else
are they gonna get seen same dayother than urgent care?
You know, and I think peoplehave an appreciation for the
(41:23):
fact that I'm like just movingthings around and making time to
get on with them.
So that's how I structure.
I don't know if that was likereally an, an answer of like,
how I structure thingsdifferently than insurance-based
system.
Mm-hmm.
I try to just really make surewe're giving people time.
And then obviously just like thegeneral model of it makes it
where we are able to get back topeople same day.
(41:46):
I just, I imagine myself beforegoing into medicine, having an
issue, even if it was just likeI had a really horrible sore
throat.
I don't know what to do.
It, it is 10 minute conversationmaybe with people just to figure
out a plan.
And most people are reasonableabout Hey, I'm not, I'm leaving
the office right now, but canyou take some ibuprofen gargle
with some warm salt water andcan you pop in tomorrow at this
(42:08):
time and I'll do a throat swabon you if it's still hurting.
Mm-hmm.
And most people are totally okaywith it.
They just, they need a, asounding board to figure out
what to do.
You know, I had another patientthis morning that I was, I was
actually more concerned forsomething and I ended up
ordering A-A-C-T-A of the neckjust based on the symptoms that
she was having.
And I am lucky because I've madepartnerships with imaging
(42:33):
centers and I've, I've beengoing direct to physicians and
organizations and I called upthe imaging center.
I said, Hey, I need you to getthis patient in.
They didn't have a, like a, a, ablood test for kidney function
within the last month, but she'shealthy.
She's had one done in the lastyear.
This, these, this is the issue.
And voila, they're taking careof it for me.
And they're actually.
Doing the, the the precert forme as well, though I did use
(42:56):
open evidence to, I love that bythe way.
I use open evidence to fightwith insurance companies all the
time because I can say, theseare the symptoms that my
patient's having.
This is what I need to order forthem.
I need you to write a letter tothe insurance company listing
with, with, with citations whythey need to be, you know,
covering this test.
And so I was able to send thatover to them for assistance as
(43:19):
well.
So I guess that's where thingsdiffer, you know, and when you
have more time, also, we don'thave to refer, like I had a
patient who I previouslyprobably would've sent to
hematology, but I was like, shedidn't wanna go.
I said, I totally get that.
Let me do a little moreresearch.
Lemme see if there's anyadditional tests that maybe
hematology would be gettingthat, that, that I can get for
(43:39):
you.
And just to double check andthen we'll regroup and you know,
it's amazing what you can dowith time.
Dr. Maryal Concepcion (43:46):
Awesome.
And it's amazing what you can dowith time.
Fueled by transparent pricingand ways to be innovative in
healthcare because you're nottied to insurance.
So wonderful to hear your yourway of creating a DBC ecosystem
and expanding it where you are.
So I love that.
Now, I want to close with thefact that your.
(44:11):
You are doing all of this foryour community, but you're also
continuing to take care ofyourself.
And as you pointed out a, a fewtimes now, self-care is not
something that is, you know,typically taught in med school
in the way that we becomedoctors.
Dr. Dana Mincer (44:26):
I've taught yoga before and I've been a de
yogi for a long, for many yearsnow, and I'm finally sitting for
my 200 hour teacher trainingcertification that has a trauma
and somatic informedcertification with it as well.
And the first step towardrealization of truth is
awareness, right?
(44:48):
I see this over and over againwith burnout.
There's a lot of anxiety andsometimes depression that comes
with burnout, and we're lookingfor quicker fixes in the form of
SNRIs, SSRIs, differentmedications or people are like
saying, I'm exercising everyday, like I am weightlifting.
(45:08):
And, and there's, I really tryto distinguish between, two
things.
What are you doing for your 10to 20 minutes of daily self-care
slash cortisol loweringactivity?
And most of us don't have thattype of regimen intact.
Like it's just not even peoplethink about yoga and they're
(45:29):
like, I don't have time forthat.
I have to get to a yoga suit, orI have to get to the gym.
And most yoga classes are anhour long.
I mean, it's the same pattern.
I see also with the positivehabit coaching that I do within
the realm of weight loss.
I hate calling it that.
As a personal trainer as wellmyself, it's like people see it
as an, it's an all or nothingthing.
Like I'm either gonna get to thegym or I'm not.
Like they don't, there's not amiddle ground.
(45:50):
So I, I would highly adviseanyone who's in that space to
just.
Put a YouTube video on.
Don't motivate yourself.
'cause by the way, motivation isa word that should be stricken
from the English language.
It is the stupidest word I'veever heard it.
I don't know who invented thatword.
If, if, you know, if you couldplease write me and tell me who
invented this word.
(46:11):
We have reptilian brains.
We are not motivated.
We are creatures of habit.
So we need to stop relying onmotivation.
Right?
You just need to get 10 to 20minutes a day.
Put any YouTube video on.
I can make suggestions.
There's, there's, I do itmyself.
I even even though I teach yoga,I don't teach myself yoga.
I put a YouTube video on'cause Ihave a lot going on.
And just get to a place of 10 to15 minutes once a day where
(46:33):
you're.
Yoga will allow you to get thephysical energy in your body out
like the physical asanas prepareyou for shiv asana, which is a
resting meditation.
Most people that I know cannotjust go sit down and meditate.
It's gonna drive you crazy.
It's gonna feel souncomfortable, like you're
jumping outta your skin.
It's and you are not alone inthat.
This is most of the populationthat I talk to.
(46:55):
And so doing something toprepare your body for a quick
rest and relaxation is gonnahelp tremendously.
And I don't know any other waybetter way than doing that and
being able to start with thattwo minute meditation at the
end.
That's going to bring moreawareness to your current
situation than that.
I can't tell anyone what theright thing is to do for your
(47:17):
life.
Like I, I see you.
I respect your sacred autonomy.
I respect your sacred humanity.
You in the end need to knowthat.
But what that two minutes oftime will do, and maybe it
expands to four minutes or fiveminutes, that will help to, to
really deepen your connection toyour intuition, which a lot of
us have lost over time, and thatin itself will help you decide
(47:39):
what the next step is for you.
For people that are consideringDPC or some alternative, I would
say just call one of us up.
Like just there's a wholenetwork of us right?
And if somebody called me upd,be like, Hey, can I, can I just
come in and talk to you andfigure out, you know, what's
your, you know, what does yourpractice look like?
There are times when I'm busierand I'm just like, I cannot do
(48:00):
this right now, but I'm also instartup mode.
But I'm sure there are a lot ofus who are not in startup mode
who are more than happy to say,yeah, come on into my clinic.
Come observe, whatever, come seeabout what's happening.
And just like that Facebookgroup with the DPC docs is
really, really, it's a helpfulforum.
It's, it's active all the time.
Plus there are statewide DPC I'ma member of the PA DPC docs and
(48:23):
then the Virginia DPC docs and,and just, it's, it's a great
place to start to see if thiscould be a good fit for you or
not.
So, and I just wanna put thisout there for anyone that's
really struggling with burnoutor depression or feeling at all,
like you're having suicidalthoughts, I want you to know
that I have been there.
(48:44):
I get it.
And there is another side.
There's al, there's there's,there's the opportunity to get
to that other side.
And you just need to reach outfor some help.
Who is the, is it Dr.
Pamela Weibel, right?
Mm-hmm.
That, that she's amazing.
If you're suffering at all.
She's got an incredible supportgroup online as well.
(49:05):
I find that oftentimes goinginward and making some changes
to the external stressors willcreate a whole new reality for
most people.
Dr. Maryal Concepcion (49:16):
Thank you so much Dr.
Minur, for joining today andsharing your story.
Dr. Dana Mincer (49:19):
Thank you so much for having me.
Dr. Maryal Concepcion (49:24):
Thank you for listening to another episode
of my DBC story.
If you enjoyed it, please leavea five star review on your
favorite podcast platform.
It helps others find the show,have a question about direct
primary care.
Leave me a voicemail.
You might hear it answered in afuture episode.
Follow us on socials at thehandle at my D DPC story and
join DPC didactics our monthlydeep dive into your questions
(49:45):
and challenges.
Links are@mydpcstory.com forexclusive content you won't hear
anywhere else.
Join our Patreon.
Find the link in the show notesor search for my DPC story on
patreon.com for DPC news on thedaily.
Check out DPC news.com.
Until next week, this isMarielle conception.
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