July 20, 2025 • 39 mins
In this episode of the My DPC Story Podcast, Dr. Naomi Lawrence Reid, founder of DoctoringDifferently.com, joins the show to share her journey from traditional clinical practice to becoming an expert in physician side gigs. Dr. Lawrence-Reid discusses the challenges of working within the insurance-driven healthcare system, including Dr. Reid’s eye-opening “diaper chair” experience in an academic pediatric ER (see the blog accompanying this podcast at mydpcstory.com for the picture). Dr. Reid reveals her top five high-yield side gigs for physicians looking for alternatives beyond full-time clinical roles: launching an aesthetics practice, medical writing, per diem and locum tenens work, expert witness services, and veteran disability exams. She also demystifies the business and money side of working independently, touching on health insurance, retirement, malpractice, and business structures like S Corps. Dr. Reid emphasizes that these side gigs can provide financial stability and act as bridges to building a Direct Primary Care (DPC) practice. Listeners are encouraged to explore her resources, summer series, and Academy for more guidance. Whether you’re a current or aspiring DPC doctor, this episode is a powerful resource for diversifying your income and reclaiming physician autonomy.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr. Maryal Concepcion (00:04):
Direct Primary care is an innovative
alternative path toinsurance-driven healthcare.
Typically, a patient pays theirdoctor a low monthly membership
and in return builds a lastingrelationship with their doctor
and has their doctor availableat their fingertip.
Welcome to the My DPC Storypodcast, where each week you
(00:26):
will hear the ever so relatablestories shared by physicians who
have chosen to practice medicinein their individual communities
through the direct primary caremodel.
I'm your host, MarielleConception.
Family, physician, DPC, owner,and former fee for service.
Doctor, I hope you enjoy today'sepisode and come away feeling
inspired about the future ofpatient care direct primary
(00:49):
care.
I am so excited for ourconversation today.
I am so excited because Dr.
Lawrence Reed, a good friend anda kick butt entrepreneur, is
going to be talking all abouther experience as a physician
who was in the system.
We are going to ask Dr.
(01:10):
Lawrence Reed to talk about thediaper chair and yes, I said the
diaper chair and that will beclear as we go on.
But.
Dr.
Lawrence Reed has become afriend.
After randomly meeting her atthe Flexed Summit, she was a
fellow speaker and what she wastalking about was physician side
gigs.
And for this topic especially, Ihave been wanting her to come
(01:31):
onto the podcast and talk abouther entire platform that is
built around physician side gigsbecause for almost a decade, she
has left the system and goneinto the side gigs that she's
going to touch on in part todayand more.
So she is my go-to expert whenit comes to physician side gigs,
and I'm super excited to haveher join us today.
Dr. Naomi Lawrence-Reid (01:51):
Thank you for having me.
I kick butt back at you.
You are.
I call you mother because man,when I need a dose of passion
and anger and motivation tochange the system, you are who I
go to.
So thank you for having.
I love it.
Dr. Maryal Concepcion (02:05):
So we are recording in the same time zone.
Dr.
Lawrence Reid is down in SanDiego, but she has been not only
incorporating side gigs, butalso traveling all over the
world for the past three years.
I, the number one question I askher when we talk is, where are
you physically to today?
So we are gonna just zoom inthough on that position,
expertise, and.
(02:26):
Again, I want to open with thediaper chair story.
So definitely pause, go to thebathroom, do what you have to,
'cause you might be ping yourpants after the ridiculousness
of the diaper chair story.
Dr. Naomi Lawrence-Reid (02:38):
Sure.
So, my story starts off like somany of us did what we were
supposed to do med schoolresidency.
I got my.
First real job.
It was a full-time academicclinical job.
It was in a pediatric emergencydepartment.
And within the first couple ofyears I began to think, wow,
this is not that great.
I am not enjoying this.
I'm working overnights andweekends and holidays and I was
(03:01):
making$125,000 a year and toldthat was my fulltime salary and
that was the most I deserveddoing what I did.
It didn't feel right, but I.
I hadn't, I, I didn't think Icould leave.
So one night I'm walking into myshift in the pediatric er, and
there's a small office in theback of the er, like most ERs
(03:23):
for physician charting.
Two desk, two chairs, twocomputers a tiny little closet.
Space and I walk in and thearmrest off of one of the
chairs, the available chair wasbroken off and there were shards
of metal sticking up.
And there was a little post-itnote on the computer that said,
admin is aware of the chair,working on it.
So I, I thought, okay, someoneis over at office max spending,
(03:46):
I don't know,$80,$90 for a newoffice chair for US physicians
to write our notes because weall know how important.
Physician charting is so I do myshift.
I write my notes with my armpinned to my torso, so I'm not
impaled by the shards of metalsticking up from this broken
chair.
I finish my shift, I go home, Ireturn the next day or the day
(04:09):
after for my next shift, and Iwalk into the office and instead
of a.
New office chair instead.
The administration has wrappeddiapers around the shards of
metal on the physician chartingchair.
And I stood there and I just, I,I, in that moment, I felt truly
(04:35):
my value and my worth in thatdepartment.
And that's why I started offsaying it was overnights.
It was weekends, it washolidays.
It was a non-negotiable scheduleand contract and.
That diaper chair on top ofalmost three years of that kind
of work environment, really inthat moment crystallized.
What I would and would nottolerate out of this career, and
(04:59):
I'm a general pediatrician, Itruly did not know any options.
This is the end of 2016.
There wasn't as much discussionabout side gigs or alternate
ways for physicians,non-traditional ways for
physicians to practice.
There really wasn't that muchdiscussion happening at that
point.
I did not know a single doctordoing anything but full-time
(05:19):
clinical medicine.
But at that moment I knew I hadto do something else and I
submitted my letter ofresignation that night.
Dr. Maryal Concepcion (05:27):
I love it and it totally resonates with
the audience, especially becausewe're coming up days away from
the national A FP co-sponsoredDPC summit.
And so I think that there'sgoing to be a lot of chatter
about not only this episode, butalso I hope that it gives the
audience members some.
Information going into Summitwhen they're thinking about how
(05:49):
am I going to finance my DPCjourney.
That could be somebody who'splanning outta residency, that
could be somebody who's open andis, wanting a little bit more
funding during the year.
Fantastic.
And I know that you were one ofour most requested speakers to
come back for our 2026California DPC Summit, which is
(06:09):
gonna be next June, and alreadypeople.
Already, we have six peoplesigned up for our limited
tickets, so definitely go tokelly dpc.com because we have a
limited number for that one.
But going back into our talktoday, you have.
Condensed your, and I saycondensed because it's like,
that's saying it very lightly.
You have condensed your almostdecade of experience into a
(06:32):
course and you have that courseput on doctoring
differently.com.
There will be a link, so you cancheck that out in the show
notes, but also the blogaccompanying Dr.
Lawrence Reed's podcast, butalso after the California DPC
summit, you had started a summerseries and that was really
hitting on the, the top five.
High yield content that peopleare asking for, and the most
(06:55):
popular piece of the contentwhen people are asking you about
side gigs for physiciansincluding, and especially DPC
physicians.
So, that's right.
I'm super excited to get intothe top five.
We're not the same as Billboard,but what is our number five
rolling in at Dr.
Lawrence Reed's top of the list?
Dr. Naomi Lawrence-Reid (07:12):
Sure.
So I'll say if we're gonna.
Countdown to the most requested.
I'll say, well, let me juststart with saying that I have
modeled doctoring differentlyand everything that I teach out
of my own personal experience,I, after that diaper chair, I
put my letter of resignation in.
I had a few months.
All I knew was going per diemand per diem felt, for so many
(07:34):
of us, it's like, wait, onlynurses go per diem?
What do you mean you're goingper diem?
It, it felt like the onlydoctors I knew who could go per
diem were, maybe mothers ofseven children who had a
neurosurgeon husband that was,those were the only doctors who
could, could go per diem, but infact.
We all can and probably should.
So it just I've modeled thiswhole course and the doctoring
(07:54):
differently platform off of whatI experienced, what I learned
what I tried, what I know to betrue and available these
lucrative opportunitiesavailable to all doctors.
So I'll say that number five, toanswer your question would
probably be starting anaesthetics practice.
Mm-hmm.
So we're gonna, we're gonna workback and I, and I want doctors
to know that, listen.
Each of these things.
(08:15):
I rolled in one at a time.
But there are so many reallyintentional, tangible ways that
you can start from wherever youare.
So of course, the aesthetics inmed spa field encompasses so,
so, so much.
But it wasn't the first thing Idid.
I, as I said, per diem, locum,some of those clinical things
were the first that I did.
But I would say when I talk topeople who are interested in a
(08:35):
new venture getting into eitherBotox or fillers or weight loss
or hormones.
Anything in that space andmedical directorship kind of
just getting really goodmentorship.
I think many of us have beenperhaps approached by a nurse
practitioner, pa or a nurseabout this field.
And, and serving and working asa medical director can sound
incredibly intimidating.
We think about the risk to ourlicense, the liability and those
(08:58):
exist, but they're also very.
Smart and potentially lucrativepartnerships that can emerge
from such relationships.
So I talk about courses that anydoctor can take to enter into
the aesthetics field.
When I was considering it aftera few years post diaper chair I
initially thought, well, ugh.
I'm a pediatrician.
I can't do be doing Botox orfillers.
And it was a, a family friend,he was a surgeon.
(09:20):
He'd opened up a, a, a, a medspot in the Midwest and he said,
you do harder things every day,don't you Suture kids' faces in
a PDR?
Aren't you doing LPs?
Botox fillers.
You can learn, and then it's alot simpler and easier than what
you're already doing.
So that was a great I thinkboost of encouragement for me,
at least at the beginning.
I took a number of CMEaccredited classes in Southern
(09:44):
California, and I, I started aconcierge med spa at 2018.
That's still going today.
So learn you can learn how tostart or at least consider
starting an aesthetics practicefrom any specialty.
Dr. Maryal Concepcion (09:57):
the other thing that I, I wanna make sure
that we mention is that I, Ithink it was after I saw you at
the last flex month summit,you're like, oh, tomorrow I have
an in-home Botox party.
Yes.
And so you, you literally havebeen taking your knowledge and
applying it where your patientsand your clients are asking.
Dr. Naomi Lawrence-Reid (10:14):
It's true, it's true.
I've really enjoyed doing thisaesthetics part.
I would say the, the main thing,and I think the most important
thing that doing it very muchfor me, I'd never wanted to make
it, I didn't wanna own a brickand mortar med spa.
I think it can be in incrediblyintimidating at the beginning to
think, oh, I see that giant medspa at the corner, down when I'm
on my way to work.
(10:34):
And I, I don't know if I couldever do that.
And you don't have to, you canjust start with taking a course
or maybe starting a smallpractice.
But for me.
It taught me the value of mytime, my energy and what I can
earn.
We never are the ones,generally, I guess your DPC
audience maybe is closer to thisnow, but in our training, we
(10:55):
don't perform a service andthen.
Open our palm for a credit card.
We never experienced thatexchange of direct services for
money.
Obviously that help.
It happens way above us andbeyond us with different people,
different hands.
And so we never have that quite,that understanding of what is my
time worth.
So if I tell a patient, oh,we're gonna do, a few things on
(11:16):
to your face, on your face and.
35 minutes later, I say, okay,that'll be$2,000.
And they hand over their creditcard.
It's like, oh yeah, that is thevalue of my time and energy.
So that was something, at leastpersonally, that I'm grateful
that aesthetics taught me
Dr. Maryal Concepcion (11:31):
what is coming in at number four.
Dr. Naomi Lawrence-Reid (11:33):
Number four would have to be medical
writing.
And whenever I say medicalwriting, physicians say, wait,
what is that?
Why haven't I heard of that?
And I say, well, there's areason.
But enough of my conspiracies Imedical writing, who writes
everything we read?
Okay, someone has to write it.
Those they didn't drop out ofthe sky on tablets from the
(11:54):
heavens.
Someone writes the things thatwe as physicians read, and quite
frankly writes the things thatthe world reads about health and
medicine and, and wellness andfitness.
So, from everything from.
CME from up to date, red Book,FDA.
We're talking about journals.
We're talking about articles,and I'm not just talking about
(12:15):
the dance of trying to getsomething published in an
academic journal.
We know too many, so manydoctors know that that can be a,
a really, ineffective use of alot of time and energy.
But I'm talking about medicalwriting that actually.
Pays you the physician for yourknowledge, for your expertise.
So medical writing is availableto all physicians, and my
(12:37):
favorite phrase is, are you aphysician?
Can you write, you're a medicalwriter.
Look, it's already true.
And you don't need to have ajournalism degree.
You don't need to go to awriting workshop.
To start.
Yes, there are always things youcan do to improve your writing,
but I think we as physicians areso used to so many mantras about
what we can and can't do.
Oh, I'm not a good writer.
(12:57):
Oh, I can't understand business.
Oh, I can't.
And these are things that wereperpetuated and taught and have
gotten inside of us and made usfeel like we are so stupid about
everything that is not clinicalmedicine and that is not true.
We are all.
Good writers.
So, so medical writing isabsolutely something that every
physician can start today.
You can put it in your LinkedInbio, you can put it in your
(13:20):
email signature.
Dr.
Naomi Lawrence Reed founder ofdoctoring differently, board
certified pediatrician medicalwriter.
Boom.
I did not lie.
I am a doctor who writes, youare a doctor who writes, ergo,
you are a medical writer.
Dr. Maryal Concepcion (13:32):
Love it.
And what is coming in at numberthree?
Dr. Naomi Lawrence-Reid (13:37):
Number three would have to be probably,
I'm gonna put per diem andlocums work in the same bucket
here.
And again, I'm going out oforder of my own kind of personal
career journey.
But per going, per diem, as Imentioned, was literally all I
knew.
I only knew clinical medicine.
I only knew doctors andpediatricians working
(13:59):
clinically.
I knew I couldn't stay at theinstitution where I was.
I had$200,000 in educationaldebt.
I just needed to pay my bills.
And I figured, listen, I cannotgo to another full-time job
right now.
So I am going to go per diem.
And just understanding that.
Even that step, I'm, I'm workingin my specialty, I'm working in
my community.
(14:19):
I'm being paid hourly.
I don't have administrativeduties and responsibilities to a
department.
Everyone is so happy to see mebecause I'm effectively a
substitute teacher and helping,a potentially understaffed
department.
There's always a physician who'ssick or has an obligation or is
on maternity or whatever it is.
So, to be able to kind of slidein and help out it for me.
(14:41):
Was such a, a step in the rightdirection.
From there, after about ninemonths of doing per diem work, I
took my first locums gig at thatpoint.
So I remembered my residencyprogram directors basically
said, never pick up the phonewhen locums recruiters call.
Never do locums, never considerit.
It is not for, real and seriousdoctors don't do that.
So at that point I said, youknow what, what else?
(15:03):
I'm gonna maybe do the oppositeof what I was.
Taught to do because what I did,what they told me, and I wasn't
happy there, so I'm gonna trythis and had an incredible
experience.
So over the past seven years,I've done a number of locums
through a locums agency anddirect contracts with, with
different facilities that areshort term, that are rural or
critical access.
(15:24):
I have earned so much money,probably five times what I could
earn here in San Diego.
So, doing locums, knowing how tonegotiate, knowing how to speak
to recruiters, and understandingthat they work for you and not
the other way around, that youcan control the conversation,
that you can dispense themeffectively to find the.
Type of job or contract you'relooking for was a game changer.
(15:48):
I'll quickly say the number onequestion I get about locums is,
okay, so how do I find a locumsagency?
How do I find a good one for myspecialty?
And I always say, until I, untilI potentially start my own,
which I have not done until,until that happens.
There is no perfect locumsagency, okay?
It is not about the agency.
It is about you, the physician,knowing how to negotiate and
(16:10):
advocate for yourself.
These are corporations, theseare companies.
They have the same end goal,which is hope making money.
But, so you have to understandthat it's about you and, and be
clear and articulate about whatyou need and what you want from
a contract.
So it's not about the agency,it's about you, the physician.
So that's number three.
Dr. Maryal Concepcion (16:29):
That's awesome.
And I will say that this isexactly the, the, the content
around the circumstances where Imet you, we were at the Flexed
Summit last year in 2024 and asa DPC doctor talking about DPC
as a side gig for specialist toget into the world of DPC.
That's right.
Or a specialist to leave.
(16:50):
A non-primary care specialty andstart A DPC.
That's where, I was reallyfocusing in, but then it was so
empowering to hear you talkabout a lot of the things that
we find in DPC, like, word ofmouth, who you prefer to build
your website, who you prefer tobe your lawyer.
(17:10):
The same type of thing happensin the physician per diem and
locums world and that mm-hmm.
There's definitely.
Ways to do things even without arecruiter.
Yes.
There's, there's ways to dothings that are vetted and tried
by physicians like you, and ithelps you be autonomous, but
also be intentional aboutphysically where you're gonna
(17:33):
go.
There was a, an hemon doctor Ibelieve she was in Florida, but
she, at the end of hearingpeople like you speak, she was
like, oh.
So I don't actually have toleave my neighborhood to do
locums jobs.
This is amazing.
That's right.
And there's, there's an entire,an entire world of strategy
(17:53):
behind making a side the out oflocums and per diem work.
And this is where, I, I am soglad you're mentioning this
because people need to know andjust to let you know.
Not only is Dr.
Lawrence Reed speaking in hersummer series that's coming up
in August, we'll put the link tosign up for that in the show
notes.
(18:14):
But also she has her course yearround or digital course
doctoring differently.
And she's also going to betalking at the rise up.
Physician Summit that's going tobe happening virtually in
October, so definitely check outthe link in the show notes for
that as well.
But this is where, yes, you cando per diem and you can do
locums, and you can do, we'renot even on number two, number
(18:37):
one.
But you can do aesthetics andyou can do med writing.
As a DPC doctor, so that'sright.
Let's go to number two.
All
Dr. Naomi Lawrence-Reid (18:45):
right.
Number two, I would say isprobably expert witness work or
physician expert witness work.
And I think that we allinitially have a, have a, a
little chill goes through us.
When we think about expertwitness work, we think that
we'll end up in a, in acourtroom that's, full of dark
(19:05):
wood and there's an angrylawyer, wagging his finger in
our face while we take thestand.
And it's, that is what we thinkit is.
We also think that it's probablygoing to require throwing
another doctor under the bus or,having to judge or criticize
another doctor or anotherphysician's decis decision
making.
I'm here to tell you both ofthose things are actually
(19:28):
relatively rare.
I I've been doing expert witnesswork for over four years now.
I'd say less than 30% of thecases I've worked on have been
around physician malpractice.
I think that's a commonmisconception that.
That is the only intersectionbetween medicine and law is
malpractice, when in fact thereare so many civil cases
(19:48):
happening every day, all thetime that involve injury or
illness.
But in no way are theycriticizing a physician's care.
An example I use is I've workedon a case where there were two
families living next to eachother.
One family's dog, but the otherfamily's child, and eyes of his
as a pediatrician was asked.
To distill a stack of medicalrecords.
The child went to the er, theirpediatrician, plastic surgery.
(20:12):
And so there were just a numberof records about antibiotics,
about the types of sutures,about the types of procedures
and the, and the lawyers arejust like, we don't know what's
happening.
We don't know what these wordsare.
And they asked me to distill it,and there was.
Absolutely no focus or blame onthe pediatrician's care or any
of the physicians who saw thatchild.
By the way, I now charge around600 to$700 per hour to review
(20:35):
these charts and to do this kindof work.
So of course it is incrediblylucrative.
And the other part is now inthis post pandemic era, I have
never actually met a lawyer inperson.
I've only had zooms and phonecalls.
Okay.
And emails, exchanges.
So this is, effectively a remotephysician gig that we can, all
of us could do, and quitefrankly, I'll say this, and I'm
(20:57):
just gonna go out there, that Ibelieve every physician who is
out, more than three to fiveyears from training can work as
a physician expert witness.
This is an open book test.
You always have, access, you'renever be put on the spot.
Surprise.
They might ask you if you're apediatrician about lead testing.
They may ask you a familymedicine doctor about a, a
poisoning or toxicology orsomething like that.
(21:19):
You have time to go look thingsup and come back with your
response or your answer.
So, this is not a, a kind of popquiz on the Krebs cycle.
You can.
Look things up.
And I also believe everyphysician at some point in our
career should actually partakein this work.
I think it's important for allof us, even if it be turns into
(21:40):
a malpractice or you'represented with a malpractice
case.
I think that physicians ofhonesty and integrity who
believe in science should beworking on all sides of all
cases, including malpractice.
I would want that.
You would want that.
I think all of your listenerswould want that as well.
So, expert witness work numbertwo.
In the summer series and in thefull doctoring differently
(22:00):
academy course, I teach exactlyhow to start finding.
These kinds of opportunities asa medical expert witness because
it can feel, you can feel like asitting duck like, well, how do
I even start?
How do I even find it?
Where do I even look?
And I'll say.
You can start.
So I teach exactly how to startfor any physician of any
(22:20):
specialty.
You don't have to, necessarilystroll into a lawyer's office or
have connections with the highpowered attorneys in the media
or the news.
There are so many caseshappening in every community.
As I said, they, I would.
Say a minority of them aremalpractice.
But there are a number of casesof personal injury or sadly
child abuse in, in my field asa, as a pediatrician.
(22:43):
Not all, there's just, there's avariety of opportunities and
there's that such a need, such,such, such an ongoing continuous
need for physicians of allspecialties to I think, enter
this work or at least have agood understanding of how they
can and I'll.
Cover it in the doctor indifferent academy and in our
summer series starting inAugust.
Dr. Maryal Concepcion (23:04):
Love it.
And what is coming in at numberone?
Dr. Naomi Lawrence-Reid (23:09):
Number one is a personal favorite of
mine, and that is VeteranDisability Exams.
And I know you didn't expect meto say that as a pediatrician.
But it turns out, I mean, thiswhat blew my mind.
It turns out that the GI Bill,which many people know about the
GI Bill signed in, I believe itwas 1944 by FDR.
It ensures that our veterans.
(23:31):
Who are separating from themilitary, retiring from the
military, get their educationpaid for.
But another part of it ensuresthat these veterans if they were
injured or sustained an illnesswhile they were active duty,
that they get compensation, theyget disability and compensation
when they separate or retirefrom the military for their,
illness.
Whether they had an injury thatwas preexisting and it got
(23:54):
worse, or they sustained a newinjury while in service.
It turns out that they actuallyneed and require, the federal
government requires civilianphysicians and practitioners to
perform these exams.
Mm-hmm.
They cannot be performed byactive duty physicians.
So those physicians are, arebusy treating actively sick, and
(24:14):
I.
Service members.
So these disability andcompensation exams are
nonclinical, non-diagnostic,non-treatment.
You're not ordering tests,you're not advising a, a veteran
on what he or her, how, how, howthey can treat their illness or
their next testing or, or givingadvice.
You're not doing any of that.
You are simply evaluating theirclaims.
(24:35):
You are presented with theirentire EMR from, from service,
their records and you're askedto fill a questionnaire out and
do a very focused physical examthat generally is a range of
motion testing of variousjoints.
And you return all of thatinformation to the va.
Physicians can earn up to$2,000a day.
Doing these exams in most citiesin most states in the us.
(24:57):
And the best part is becausethis is federal work.
If you are flexible with yourtravel, which I teach, we all
need to be likely more flexible,at least with how we think about
our careers as physicians.
But short-term travel isavailable and because it's
federal work, we one act ofstate medical license.
Can translate to any of the 50states, including Guam and
(25:18):
Puerto Rico.
So you can take, you can dothose exams and say, maybe go to
another state for, three or fivedays, do a slew of exams and
come home.
I, a few years ago I went up toWashington for two weeks over
the summer, did veterandisability exams.
I don't have a Washingtonmedical license.
I only have a California medicallicense.
But'cause it's federal work.
I could do it anyway.
(25:38):
I find it so fun.
I love talking to veterans.
I think it actually makes me abetter pediatrician, but I want
to remind you again, it is not,it is not clinical.
It's not diagnostic, it's nottreatment.
And when I started, I hadn'ttouched an adult clinically in
10 years.
That was when I had graduatedfrom medical school 10 years
earlier.
And I'd seen only kids since.
So look, look at the scope ofpractice that I didn't even know
(26:02):
I had access to.
I was able to do so.
Number one, I think the one Iget the most questions about is
veteran disability exams, andany physician of any specialty
can do them.
Dr. Maryal Concepcion (26:13):
I love this.
So there you go.
Dr.
Naomi Lawrence reads billboardequivalent of the top five that
she has for physician side gigs.
And just as we do in DBC, weunder promise over deliver.
I really would love if you can,even though it's not one of the
top fives.
Sure.
I would love if you can talkabout.
How you empower your fellowphysicians out there to think
(26:34):
about business and money,because as you're going through
all these different, the topfive, you still have to deal
with business and you still haveto deal with money.
Absolutely.
You do.
And you absolutely talk aboutthat.
Dr. Naomi Lawrence-Reid (26:46):
I do, I do.
Thank you.
So, for all of those funopportunities that maybe have
crossed a physician's mind, Ithink the thing that.
Causes us to halt is, ooh, but Ineed health insurance.
Like, that sounds fun.
Ooh,$600 an hour to be an expertwitness or this, that, or to do
veteran disability.
But ah, I got, I have a family.
They, everyone is on.
(27:06):
Even my parents, my kids, myhusband, my spouse, everyone is
on my health insurance.
So.
I teach, in the, in another partof the doctoring differently
summer series, week three, weget into the money and business
of doctoring differently.
And the first part of thatlesson is how to find your own
health insurance.
I mean, how, if, if we can justtake a step back, I really hate.
(27:27):
That we really have nounderstanding about health
insurance, and I'm speaking formyself.
When I began this journey aswell, had no idea really the
components of health insurancepolicy, what I needed, what I
was looking for, and how to findmy own.
We talk about it.
We teach many options forgetting health benefits for a
physician for their family sothat they.
(27:47):
Are able to work in thisindependent way and potentially
leave a full-time clinicalemployer.
I talk about how to think andrecalibrate your retirement
strategy, or at least your, thethought of, well, I've got this
retirement account.
I really don't understand thedetails.
People are throwing aroundnumbers like 4 0 3 B and 401k,
and I don't know I, let mestudy.
(28:08):
Everything about my accounts andthen maybe when I fully
understand it, maybe then I canmake a career change.
And that also was not what Icould do.
I knew that I had to really justkind of figure it out as I go.
And I did.
And by the way, I'm now able tocontribute so much more and
diversify all my investments andretirements accounts'cause Im.
(28:30):
I'm earning so much more in, inso many flexible, lucrative
ways.
So we talk about kind of how tothink about potentially leaving
a full-time job with its,potential retirement perks, but
also how to grow and think ofyour retirement strategy on your
own.
We also talk about malpracticeand we talk about.
Covering your S-corp.
Of course, malpractice is notcovered in so many of our
(28:51):
medical education.
I, I once tweeted a few yearsago, I had 10 weeks off at the
end of medical school, so youjust can't tell me that there's
no time for a, a day, a coupleof days to teach physicians
about malpractice.
Even physicians who may be stayfull, fully employed at a, at a
large institution for theirentire careers.
I think it's a, a very maliciousand egregious omission from our,
(29:14):
from our medical education.
But we talk about it for some ofthe things I do, some of them,
not all of them, some you doneed to get your own malpractice
policy.
We talk about how to get it, andfinally we talk about starting a
physician S-Corp or LLC, whichis just a amazing tax mitigation
strategy.
Let me.
Also just back up saying, I donot have an MBA, I never got
one.
I don't plan to get one.
(29:35):
You do not need an MBA.
You don't need a fellowship,another fellowship.
You don't need a pile of cash.
All of the things that I thinkwe think we need in order to
make a big change in our livesand our careers, you know that,
that more education is ourcurrency, right?
That's what we're taught.
Oh, you don't like your job?
Well then you probably should godo a peds cardiology fellowship.
(29:55):
That just, that was, I knew thatwasn't the right answer for me,
but I certainly see how thatkind of thinking can, can, can
creep into so many physicians'minds.
So, I, I want to tell you, weteach all of those things in the
doctoring differently summerseries and in the doctoring
differently academy because you,you absolutely don't need to
wait.
You don't need an MBA you.
(30:15):
All you need is the belief thatyou deserve a, a happy, healthy,
and respected life as aphysician.
Dr. Maryal Concepcion (30:22):
This is Maya, Dr.
Naomi Lawrence Reid is my go-toperson when it comes to position
side gigs.
I am so grateful for you comingonto the podcast and sharing
your expertise, just the littlescrape of the surface.
So tell us now where people canfind you, where they can sign up
for the summer series and wherethey can go for the academy.
Dr. Naomi Lawrence-Reid (30:41):
Sure.
So everything, everything,everything
is@doctoringdifferently.com.
There's a banner at the topthat, that says Sign up for
summer series.
Right now you can see our, oursummer course syllabus, but in
the website you'll see links forthe full academy, which again is
a digital recorded course thathas over nine hours of content.
Uh, Within the academy we haveweekly q and as.
(31:04):
Every month of the year with thewhole community, with me.
You bring your successes, youbring your rants, you bring your
victories you bring yourlearning, and we talk about it
every single month.
So that's within the academy.
But here we're, we're recordingmid-July.
I'm, I'm doing a series rightnow, a live series in July.
It's going so well.
These doctors are learning somuch.
As I've pulled this high yieldcontent, the top five, oh, I
(31:26):
love the term.
I love that billboard.
I'm feeling very like uh, thankyou Diva.
I should be floating in the skyon tour.
Thank you so much.
Anyway, I love that billboardreference, and that is, that
billboard is what we're doing inAugust.
So if anything that I've talkedabout or mentioned has sparked
an interest or a thought,hopefully a daydream, hopefully
(31:46):
it's lit a match for you thatyou're like, Ooh, I have thought
about that.
And I don't know, I don't knowthis full-time physician.
I don't know if I can do thisthing forever, this full-time
clinical, please.
This is your opportunity I havethe time in August to do it in
the summer.
I don't know that I'll be ableto do it the rest of the year,
so I wanna teach this live toget your.
Questions live, but we gosequentially.
(32:08):
Each Tuesday night in August, wewill go down the list of the top
five, but also the money andbusiness of doctoring
differently and how to find, howto start, how to secure your
future, how to protect yourassets as you go.
And oh, by the way, we teach resresignation too.
How to write a resignationletter the way I had to Google
it after my diaper chair.
(32:28):
We should know how to writeresignation letters.
So I'll show you mine.
It's not great, but we learnfrom it and we write better
resignation letters and we learnhow to resign without burning
bridges because, that'sultimately what we wanna do.
We can maintain goodrelationships with our
community, but we also deserveto explore new opportunities if
that's what we want to do.
Dr. Maryal Concepcion (32:46):
So empowering.
Again, go to doctoringdifferently.com to sign up and
connect with Dr.
Lawrence Reed after thispodcast.
Dr. Naomi Lawrence-Reid (32:54):
And I will add one more thing here.
Everything that I've talkedabout, my billboard list of, of
medical writing and expertwitness and locums and per diem
and, and veteran disability and,and medical writing, all of
these things.
They can be bridges into athriving DPC practice.
They can be the thing that kindof you start to do as you're
(33:15):
building your cash flow, asyou're getting used to working
as an independent physician awayfrom a full-time W2 employer.
These are steps that you canslowly and intentionally take,
so it doesn't necessarily feellike a huge leap from a
full-time employed job.
Into your own thriving DPCpractice.
(33:35):
This can be a bridge, this canbe constant, consistent cash
flow doing per diem, doingexpert witness, doing a, a
locums gig or something likethat, or all of these things can
be done on your way to a DPCpractice while you're doing it.
Quite frankly, I think everyphysician should be exploring
some of these opportunities atsome point in their career.
(33:58):
By the way, you can pick them upand you can put them down.
Nothing has to be happening.
All the time.
Go, go, go.
I think as your interestschange, as your personal needs
change, as your needs with yourfamily change, we can do new
things and we can decide to putthings, some things on hold and
pick up something else.
So just know that these areentirely flexible.
They change with you.
(34:18):
I think we're now in a.
In a time in history where thesejobs need to fit into our lives
and not the other way around.
So just know you can do these asyou start your practice while
you're in your practice.
And let's be clear, these canall be done at the end, maybe
near retirement.
There's so many options for thisremote, flexible, but
intellectually fun andstimulating work for all
(34:39):
doctors.
Thank you so much for coming ontoday.
You are so, so welcome.
And I'll just say sign up forthe mailing list, even if you're
not ready to join the course orto join this.
Summer series.
If you go to the website, apopup will come and you can get
a full list of my guide to anumber of the careers that I
teach about.
But that'll help you sign up forthe list and just stay informed
(35:00):
about future offerings, courses,free webinars over at doctoring
differently.
So thank you for having me.
Dr. Maryal Concepcion (35:08):
Thank you for listening to another episode
of my DBC story.
If you enjoyed it, please leavea five star review on your
favorite podcast platform.
It helps others find the show,have a question about direct
primary care.
Leave me a voicemail.
You might hear it answered in afuture episode.
Follow us on socials at thehandle at my D DPC story and
join DPC didactics our monthlydeep dive into your questions
(35:30):
and challenges.
Links are@mydpcstory.com forexclusive content you won't hear
anywhere else.
Join our Patreon.
Find the link in the show notesor search for my DPC story on
patreon.com for DPC news on thedaily.
Check out DPC news.com.
Until next week, this isMarielle conception.
Direct Primary care is an innovative
alternative path toinsurance-driven healthcare.
Typically, a patient pays theirdoctor a low monthly membership
and in return builds a lastingrelationship with their doctor
and has their doctor availableat their fingertip.
Welcome to the My DPC Storypodcast, where each week you
(00:26):
will hear the ever so relatablestories shared by physicians who
have chosen to practice medicinein their individual communities
through the direct primary caremodel.
I'm your host, MarielleConception.
Family, physician, DPC, owner,and former fee for service.
Doctor, I hope you enjoy today'sepisode and come away feeling
inspired about the future ofpatient care direct primary
(00:49):
care.
I am so excited for ourconversation today.
I am so excited because Dr.
Lawrence Reed, a good friend anda kick butt entrepreneur, is
going to be talking all abouther experience as a physician
who was in the system.
We are going to ask Dr.
(01:10):
Lawrence Reed to talk about thediaper chair and yes, I said the
diaper chair and that will beclear as we go on.
But.
Dr.
Lawrence Reed has become afriend.
After randomly meeting her atthe Flexed Summit, she was a
fellow speaker and what she wastalking about was physician side
gigs.
And for this topic especially, Ihave been wanting her to come
(01:31):
onto the podcast and talk abouther entire platform that is
built around physician side gigsbecause for almost a decade, she
has left the system and goneinto the side gigs that she's
going to touch on in part todayand more.
So she is my go-to expert whenit comes to physician side gigs,
and I'm super excited to haveher join us today.
Dr. Naomi Lawrence-Reid (01:51):
Thank you for having me.
I kick butt back at you.
You are.
I call you mother because man,when I need a dose of passion
and anger and motivation tochange the system, you are who I
go to.
So thank you for having.
I love it.
Dr. Maryal Concepcion (02:05):
So we are recording in the same time zone.
Dr.
Lawrence Reid is down in SanDiego, but she has been not only
incorporating side gigs, butalso traveling all over the
world for the past three years.
I, the number one question I askher when we talk is, where are
you physically to today?
So we are gonna just zoom inthough on that position,
expertise, and.
(02:26):
Again, I want to open with thediaper chair story.
So definitely pause, go to thebathroom, do what you have to,
'cause you might be ping yourpants after the ridiculousness
of the diaper chair story.
Dr. Naomi Lawrence-Reid (02:38):
Sure.
So, my story starts off like somany of us did what we were
supposed to do med schoolresidency.
I got my.
First real job.
It was a full-time academicclinical job.
It was in a pediatric emergencydepartment.
And within the first couple ofyears I began to think, wow,
this is not that great.
I am not enjoying this.
I'm working overnights andweekends and holidays and I was
(03:01):
making$125,000 a year and toldthat was my fulltime salary and
that was the most I deserveddoing what I did.
It didn't feel right, but I.
I hadn't, I, I didn't think Icould leave.
So one night I'm walking into myshift in the pediatric er, and
there's a small office in theback of the er, like most ERs
(03:23):
for physician charting.
Two desk, two chairs, twocomputers a tiny little closet.
Space and I walk in and thearmrest off of one of the
chairs, the available chair wasbroken off and there were shards
of metal sticking up.
And there was a little post-itnote on the computer that said,
admin is aware of the chair,working on it.
So I, I thought, okay, someoneis over at office max spending,
(03:46):
I don't know,$80,$90 for a newoffice chair for US physicians
to write our notes because weall know how important.
Physician charting is so I do myshift.
I write my notes with my armpinned to my torso, so I'm not
impaled by the shards of metalsticking up from this broken
chair.
I finish my shift, I go home, Ireturn the next day or the day
(04:09):
after for my next shift, and Iwalk into the office and instead
of a.
New office chair instead.
The administration has wrappeddiapers around the shards of
metal on the physician chartingchair.
And I stood there and I just, I,I, in that moment, I felt truly
(04:35):
my value and my worth in thatdepartment.
And that's why I started offsaying it was overnights.
It was weekends, it washolidays.
It was a non-negotiable scheduleand contract and.
That diaper chair on top ofalmost three years of that kind
of work environment, really inthat moment crystallized.
What I would and would nottolerate out of this career, and
(04:59):
I'm a general pediatrician, Itruly did not know any options.
This is the end of 2016.
There wasn't as much discussionabout side gigs or alternate
ways for physicians,non-traditional ways for
physicians to practice.
There really wasn't that muchdiscussion happening at that
point.
I did not know a single doctordoing anything but full-time
(05:19):
clinical medicine.
But at that moment I knew I hadto do something else and I
submitted my letter ofresignation that night.
Dr. Maryal Concepcion (05:27):
I love it and it totally resonates with
the audience, especially becausewe're coming up days away from
the national A FP co-sponsoredDPC summit.
And so I think that there'sgoing to be a lot of chatter
about not only this episode, butalso I hope that it gives the
audience members some.
Information going into Summitwhen they're thinking about how
(05:49):
am I going to finance my DPCjourney.
That could be somebody who'splanning outta residency, that
could be somebody who's open andis, wanting a little bit more
funding during the year.
Fantastic.
And I know that you were one ofour most requested speakers to
come back for our 2026California DPC Summit, which is
(06:09):
gonna be next June, and alreadypeople.
Already, we have six peoplesigned up for our limited
tickets, so definitely go tokelly dpc.com because we have a
limited number for that one.
But going back into our talktoday, you have.
Condensed your, and I saycondensed because it's like,
that's saying it very lightly.
You have condensed your almostdecade of experience into a
(06:32):
course and you have that courseput on doctoring
differently.com.
There will be a link, so you cancheck that out in the show
notes, but also the blogaccompanying Dr.
Lawrence Reed's podcast, butalso after the California DPC
summit, you had started a summerseries and that was really
hitting on the, the top five.
High yield content that peopleare asking for, and the most
(06:55):
popular piece of the contentwhen people are asking you about
side gigs for physiciansincluding, and especially DPC
physicians.
So, that's right.
I'm super excited to get intothe top five.
We're not the same as Billboard,but what is our number five
rolling in at Dr.
Lawrence Reed's top of the list?
Dr. Naomi Lawrence-Reid (07:12):
Sure.
So I'll say if we're gonna.
Countdown to the most requested.
I'll say, well, let me juststart with saying that I have
modeled doctoring differentlyand everything that I teach out
of my own personal experience,I, after that diaper chair, I
put my letter of resignation in.
I had a few months.
All I knew was going per diemand per diem felt, for so many
(07:34):
of us, it's like, wait, onlynurses go per diem?
What do you mean you're goingper diem?
It, it felt like the onlydoctors I knew who could go per
diem were, maybe mothers ofseven children who had a
neurosurgeon husband that was,those were the only doctors who
could, could go per diem, but infact.
We all can and probably should.
So it just I've modeled thiswhole course and the doctoring
(07:54):
differently platform off of whatI experienced, what I learned
what I tried, what I know to betrue and available these
lucrative opportunitiesavailable to all doctors.
So I'll say that number five, toanswer your question would
probably be starting anaesthetics practice.
Mm-hmm.
So we're gonna, we're gonna workback and I, and I want doctors
to know that, listen.
Each of these things.
(08:15):
I rolled in one at a time.
But there are so many reallyintentional, tangible ways that
you can start from wherever youare.
So of course, the aesthetics inmed spa field encompasses so,
so, so much.
But it wasn't the first thing Idid.
I, as I said, per diem, locum,some of those clinical things
were the first that I did.
But I would say when I talk topeople who are interested in a
(08:35):
new venture getting into eitherBotox or fillers or weight loss
or hormones.
Anything in that space andmedical directorship kind of
just getting really goodmentorship.
I think many of us have beenperhaps approached by a nurse
practitioner, pa or a nurseabout this field.
And, and serving and working asa medical director can sound
incredibly intimidating.
We think about the risk to ourlicense, the liability and those
(08:58):
exist, but they're also very.
Smart and potentially lucrativepartnerships that can emerge
from such relationships.
So I talk about courses that anydoctor can take to enter into
the aesthetics field.
When I was considering it aftera few years post diaper chair I
initially thought, well, ugh.
I'm a pediatrician.
I can't do be doing Botox orfillers.
And it was a, a family friend,he was a surgeon.
(09:20):
He'd opened up a, a, a, a medspot in the Midwest and he said,
you do harder things every day,don't you Suture kids' faces in
a PDR?
Aren't you doing LPs?
Botox fillers.
You can learn, and then it's alot simpler and easier than what
you're already doing.
So that was a great I thinkboost of encouragement for me,
at least at the beginning.
I took a number of CMEaccredited classes in Southern
(09:44):
California, and I, I started aconcierge med spa at 2018.
That's still going today.
So learn you can learn how tostart or at least consider
starting an aesthetics practicefrom any specialty.
Dr. Maryal Concepcion (09:57):
the other thing that I, I wanna make sure
that we mention is that I, Ithink it was after I saw you at
the last flex month summit,you're like, oh, tomorrow I have
an in-home Botox party.
Yes.
And so you, you literally havebeen taking your knowledge and
applying it where your patientsand your clients are asking.
Dr. Naomi Lawrence-Reid (10:14):
It's true, it's true.
I've really enjoyed doing thisaesthetics part.
I would say the, the main thing,and I think the most important
thing that doing it very muchfor me, I'd never wanted to make
it, I didn't wanna own a brickand mortar med spa.
I think it can be in incrediblyintimidating at the beginning to
think, oh, I see that giant medspa at the corner, down when I'm
on my way to work.
(10:34):
And I, I don't know if I couldever do that.
And you don't have to, you canjust start with taking a course
or maybe starting a smallpractice.
But for me.
It taught me the value of mytime, my energy and what I can
earn.
We never are the ones,generally, I guess your DPC
audience maybe is closer to thisnow, but in our training, we
(10:55):
don't perform a service andthen.
Open our palm for a credit card.
We never experienced thatexchange of direct services for
money.
Obviously that help.
It happens way above us andbeyond us with different people,
different hands.
And so we never have that quite,that understanding of what is my
time worth.
So if I tell a patient, oh,we're gonna do, a few things on
(11:16):
to your face, on your face and.
35 minutes later, I say, okay,that'll be$2,000.
And they hand over their creditcard.
It's like, oh yeah, that is thevalue of my time and energy.
So that was something, at leastpersonally, that I'm grateful
that aesthetics taught me
Dr. Maryal Concepcion (11:31):
what is coming in at number four.
Dr. Naomi Lawrence-Reid (11:33):
Number four would have to be medical
writing.
And whenever I say medicalwriting, physicians say, wait,
what is that?
Why haven't I heard of that?
And I say, well, there's areason.
But enough of my conspiracies Imedical writing, who writes
everything we read?
Okay, someone has to write it.
Those they didn't drop out ofthe sky on tablets from the
(11:54):
heavens.
Someone writes the things thatwe as physicians read, and quite
frankly writes the things thatthe world reads about health and
medicine and, and wellness andfitness.
So, from everything from.
CME from up to date, red Book,FDA.
We're talking about journals.
We're talking about articles,and I'm not just talking about
(12:15):
the dance of trying to getsomething published in an
academic journal.
We know too many, so manydoctors know that that can be a,
a really, ineffective use of alot of time and energy.
But I'm talking about medicalwriting that actually.
Pays you the physician for yourknowledge, for your expertise.
So medical writing is availableto all physicians, and my
(12:37):
favorite phrase is, are you aphysician?
Can you write, you're a medicalwriter.
Look, it's already true.
And you don't need to have ajournalism degree.
You don't need to go to awriting workshop.
To start.
Yes, there are always things youcan do to improve your writing,
but I think we as physicians areso used to so many mantras about
what we can and can't do.
Oh, I'm not a good writer.
(12:57):
Oh, I can't understand business.
Oh, I can't.
And these are things that wereperpetuated and taught and have
gotten inside of us and made usfeel like we are so stupid about
everything that is not clinicalmedicine and that is not true.
We are all.
Good writers.
So, so medical writing isabsolutely something that every
physician can start today.
You can put it in your LinkedInbio, you can put it in your
(13:20):
email signature.
Dr.
Naomi Lawrence Reed founder ofdoctoring differently, board
certified pediatrician medicalwriter.
Boom.
I did not lie.
I am a doctor who writes, youare a doctor who writes, ergo,
you are a medical writer.
Dr. Maryal Concepcion (13:32):
Love it.
And what is coming in at numberthree?
Dr. Naomi Lawrence-Reid (13:37):
Number three would have to be probably,
I'm gonna put per diem andlocums work in the same bucket
here.
And again, I'm going out oforder of my own kind of personal
career journey.
But per going, per diem, as Imentioned, was literally all I
knew.
I only knew clinical medicine.
I only knew doctors andpediatricians working
(13:59):
clinically.
I knew I couldn't stay at theinstitution where I was.
I had$200,000 in educationaldebt.
I just needed to pay my bills.
And I figured, listen, I cannotgo to another full-time job
right now.
So I am going to go per diem.
And just understanding that.
Even that step, I'm, I'm workingin my specialty, I'm working in
my community.
(14:19):
I'm being paid hourly.
I don't have administrativeduties and responsibilities to a
department.
Everyone is so happy to see mebecause I'm effectively a
substitute teacher and helping,a potentially understaffed
department.
There's always a physician who'ssick or has an obligation or is
on maternity or whatever it is.
So, to be able to kind of slidein and help out it for me.
(14:41):
Was such a, a step in the rightdirection.
From there, after about ninemonths of doing per diem work, I
took my first locums gig at thatpoint.
So I remembered my residencyprogram directors basically
said, never pick up the phonewhen locums recruiters call.
Never do locums, never considerit.
It is not for, real and seriousdoctors don't do that.
So at that point I said, youknow what, what else?
(15:03):
I'm gonna maybe do the oppositeof what I was.
Taught to do because what I did,what they told me, and I wasn't
happy there, so I'm gonna trythis and had an incredible
experience.
So over the past seven years,I've done a number of locums
through a locums agency anddirect contracts with, with
different facilities that areshort term, that are rural or
critical access.
(15:24):
I have earned so much money,probably five times what I could
earn here in San Diego.
So, doing locums, knowing how tonegotiate, knowing how to speak
to recruiters, and understandingthat they work for you and not
the other way around, that youcan control the conversation,
that you can dispense themeffectively to find the.
Type of job or contract you'relooking for was a game changer.
(15:48):
I'll quickly say the number onequestion I get about locums is,
okay, so how do I find a locumsagency?
How do I find a good one for myspecialty?
And I always say, until I, untilI potentially start my own,
which I have not done until,until that happens.
There is no perfect locumsagency, okay?
It is not about the agency.
It is about you, the physician,knowing how to negotiate and
(16:10):
advocate for yourself.
These are corporations, theseare companies.
They have the same end goal,which is hope making money.
But, so you have to understandthat it's about you and, and be
clear and articulate about whatyou need and what you want from
a contract.
So it's not about the agency,it's about you, the physician.
So that's number three.
Dr. Maryal Concepcion (16:29):
That's awesome.
And I will say that this isexactly the, the, the content
around the circumstances where Imet you, we were at the Flexed
Summit last year in 2024 and asa DPC doctor talking about DPC
as a side gig for specialist toget into the world of DPC.
That's right.
Or a specialist to leave.
(16:50):
A non-primary care specialty andstart A DPC.
That's where, I was reallyfocusing in, but then it was so
empowering to hear you talkabout a lot of the things that
we find in DPC, like, word ofmouth, who you prefer to build
your website, who you prefer tobe your lawyer.
(17:10):
The same type of thing happensin the physician per diem and
locums world and that mm-hmm.
There's definitely.
Ways to do things even without arecruiter.
Yes.
There's, there's ways to dothings that are vetted and tried
by physicians like you, and ithelps you be autonomous, but
also be intentional aboutphysically where you're gonna
(17:33):
go.
There was a, an hemon doctor Ibelieve she was in Florida, but
she, at the end of hearingpeople like you speak, she was
like, oh.
So I don't actually have toleave my neighborhood to do
locums jobs.
This is amazing.
That's right.
And there's, there's an entire,an entire world of strategy
(17:53):
behind making a side the out oflocums and per diem work.
And this is where, I, I am soglad you're mentioning this
because people need to know andjust to let you know.
Not only is Dr.
Lawrence Reed speaking in hersummer series that's coming up
in August, we'll put the link tosign up for that in the show
notes.
(18:14):
But also she has her course yearround or digital course
doctoring differently.
And she's also going to betalking at the rise up.
Physician Summit that's going tobe happening virtually in
October, so definitely check outthe link in the show notes for
that as well.
But this is where, yes, you cando per diem and you can do
locums, and you can do, we'renot even on number two, number
(18:37):
one.
But you can do aesthetics andyou can do med writing.
As a DPC doctor, so that'sright.
Let's go to number two.
All
Dr. Naomi Lawrence-Reid (18:45):
right.
Number two, I would say isprobably expert witness work or
physician expert witness work.
And I think that we allinitially have a, have a, a
little chill goes through us.
When we think about expertwitness work, we think that
we'll end up in a, in acourtroom that's, full of dark
(19:05):
wood and there's an angrylawyer, wagging his finger in
our face while we take thestand.
And it's, that is what we thinkit is.
We also think that it's probablygoing to require throwing
another doctor under the bus or,having to judge or criticize
another doctor or anotherphysician's decis decision
making.
I'm here to tell you both ofthose things are actually
(19:28):
relatively rare.
I I've been doing expert witnesswork for over four years now.
I'd say less than 30% of thecases I've worked on have been
around physician malpractice.
I think that's a commonmisconception that.
That is the only intersectionbetween medicine and law is
malpractice, when in fact thereare so many civil cases
(19:48):
happening every day, all thetime that involve injury or
illness.
But in no way are theycriticizing a physician's care.
An example I use is I've workedon a case where there were two
families living next to eachother.
One family's dog, but the otherfamily's child, and eyes of his
as a pediatrician was asked.
To distill a stack of medicalrecords.
The child went to the er, theirpediatrician, plastic surgery.
(20:12):
And so there were just a numberof records about antibiotics,
about the types of sutures,about the types of procedures
and the, and the lawyers arejust like, we don't know what's
happening.
We don't know what these wordsare.
And they asked me to distill it,and there was.
Absolutely no focus or blame onthe pediatrician's care or any
of the physicians who saw thatchild.
By the way, I now charge around600 to$700 per hour to review
(20:35):
these charts and to do this kindof work.
So of course it is incrediblylucrative.
And the other part is now inthis post pandemic era, I have
never actually met a lawyer inperson.
I've only had zooms and phonecalls.
Okay.
And emails, exchanges.
So this is, effectively a remotephysician gig that we can, all
of us could do, and quitefrankly, I'll say this, and I'm
(20:57):
just gonna go out there, that Ibelieve every physician who is
out, more than three to fiveyears from training can work as
a physician expert witness.
This is an open book test.
You always have, access, you'renever be put on the spot.
Surprise.
They might ask you if you're apediatrician about lead testing.
They may ask you a familymedicine doctor about a, a
poisoning or toxicology orsomething like that.
(21:19):
You have time to go look thingsup and come back with your
response or your answer.
So, this is not a, a kind of popquiz on the Krebs cycle.
You can.
Look things up.
And I also believe everyphysician at some point in our
career should actually partakein this work.
I think it's important for allof us, even if it be turns into
(21:40):
a malpractice or you'represented with a malpractice
case.
I think that physicians ofhonesty and integrity who
believe in science should beworking on all sides of all
cases, including malpractice.
I would want that.
You would want that.
I think all of your listenerswould want that as well.
So, expert witness work numbertwo.
In the summer series and in thefull doctoring differently
(22:00):
academy course, I teach exactlyhow to start finding.
These kinds of opportunities asa medical expert witness because
it can feel, you can feel like asitting duck like, well, how do
I even start?
How do I even find it?
Where do I even look?
And I'll say.
You can start.
So I teach exactly how to startfor any physician of any
(22:20):
specialty.
You don't have to, necessarilystroll into a lawyer's office or
have connections with the highpowered attorneys in the media
or the news.
There are so many caseshappening in every community.
As I said, they, I would.
Say a minority of them aremalpractice.
But there are a number of casesof personal injury or sadly
child abuse in, in my field asa, as a pediatrician.
(22:43):
Not all, there's just, there's avariety of opportunities and
there's that such a need, such,such, such an ongoing continuous
need for physicians of allspecialties to I think, enter
this work or at least have agood understanding of how they
can and I'll.
Cover it in the doctor indifferent academy and in our
summer series starting inAugust.
Dr. Maryal Concepcion (23:04):
Love it.
And what is coming in at numberone?
Dr. Naomi Lawrence-Reid (23:09):
Number one is a personal favorite of
mine, and that is VeteranDisability Exams.
And I know you didn't expect meto say that as a pediatrician.
But it turns out, I mean, thiswhat blew my mind.
It turns out that the GI Bill,which many people know about the
GI Bill signed in, I believe itwas 1944 by FDR.
It ensures that our veterans.
(23:31):
Who are separating from themilitary, retiring from the
military, get their educationpaid for.
But another part of it ensuresthat these veterans if they were
injured or sustained an illnesswhile they were active duty,
that they get compensation, theyget disability and compensation
when they separate or retirefrom the military for their,
illness.
Whether they had an injury thatwas preexisting and it got
(23:54):
worse, or they sustained a newinjury while in service.
It turns out that they actuallyneed and require, the federal
government requires civilianphysicians and practitioners to
perform these exams.
Mm-hmm.
They cannot be performed byactive duty physicians.
So those physicians are, arebusy treating actively sick, and
(24:14):
I.
Service members.
So these disability andcompensation exams are
nonclinical, non-diagnostic,non-treatment.
You're not ordering tests,you're not advising a, a veteran
on what he or her, how, how, howthey can treat their illness or
their next testing or, or givingadvice.
You're not doing any of that.
You are simply evaluating theirclaims.
(24:35):
You are presented with theirentire EMR from, from service,
their records and you're askedto fill a questionnaire out and
do a very focused physical examthat generally is a range of
motion testing of variousjoints.
And you return all of thatinformation to the va.
Physicians can earn up to$2,000a day.
Doing these exams in most citiesin most states in the us.
(24:57):
And the best part is becausethis is federal work.
If you are flexible with yourtravel, which I teach, we all
need to be likely more flexible,at least with how we think about
our careers as physicians.
But short-term travel isavailable and because it's
federal work, we one act ofstate medical license.
Can translate to any of the 50states, including Guam and
(25:18):
Puerto Rico.
So you can take, you can dothose exams and say, maybe go to
another state for, three or fivedays, do a slew of exams and
come home.
I, a few years ago I went up toWashington for two weeks over
the summer, did veterandisability exams.
I don't have a Washingtonmedical license.
I only have a California medicallicense.
But'cause it's federal work.
I could do it anyway.
(25:38):
I find it so fun.
I love talking to veterans.
I think it actually makes me abetter pediatrician, but I want
to remind you again, it is not,it is not clinical.
It's not diagnostic, it's nottreatment.
And when I started, I hadn'ttouched an adult clinically in
10 years.
That was when I had graduatedfrom medical school 10 years
earlier.
And I'd seen only kids since.
So look, look at the scope ofpractice that I didn't even know
(26:02):
I had access to.
I was able to do so.
Number one, I think the one Iget the most questions about is
veteran disability exams, andany physician of any specialty
can do them.
Dr. Maryal Concepcion (26:13):
I love this.
So there you go.
Dr.
Naomi Lawrence reads billboardequivalent of the top five that
she has for physician side gigs.
And just as we do in DBC, weunder promise over deliver.
I really would love if you can,even though it's not one of the
top fives.
Sure.
I would love if you can talkabout.
How you empower your fellowphysicians out there to think
(26:34):
about business and money,because as you're going through
all these different, the topfive, you still have to deal
with business and you still haveto deal with money.
Absolutely.
You do.
And you absolutely talk aboutthat.
Dr. Naomi Lawrence-Reid (26:46):
I do, I do.
Thank you.
So, for all of those funopportunities that maybe have
crossed a physician's mind, Ithink the thing that.
Causes us to halt is, ooh, but Ineed health insurance.
Like, that sounds fun.
Ooh,$600 an hour to be an expertwitness or this, that, or to do
veteran disability.
But ah, I got, I have a family.
They, everyone is on.
(27:06):
Even my parents, my kids, myhusband, my spouse, everyone is
on my health insurance.
So.
I teach, in the, in another partof the doctoring differently
summer series, week three, weget into the money and business
of doctoring differently.
And the first part of thatlesson is how to find your own
health insurance.
I mean, how, if, if we can justtake a step back, I really hate.
(27:27):
That we really have nounderstanding about health
insurance, and I'm speaking formyself.
When I began this journey aswell, had no idea really the
components of health insurancepolicy, what I needed, what I
was looking for, and how to findmy own.
We talk about it.
We teach many options forgetting health benefits for a
physician for their family sothat they.
(27:47):
Are able to work in thisindependent way and potentially
leave a full-time clinicalemployer.
I talk about how to think andrecalibrate your retirement
strategy, or at least your, thethought of, well, I've got this
retirement account.
I really don't understand thedetails.
People are throwing aroundnumbers like 4 0 3 B and 401k,
and I don't know I, let mestudy.
(28:08):
Everything about my accounts andthen maybe when I fully
understand it, maybe then I canmake a career change.
And that also was not what Icould do.
I knew that I had to really justkind of figure it out as I go.
And I did.
And by the way, I'm now able tocontribute so much more and
diversify all my investments andretirements accounts'cause Im.
(28:30):
I'm earning so much more in, inso many flexible, lucrative
ways.
So we talk about kind of how tothink about potentially leaving
a full-time job with its,potential retirement perks, but
also how to grow and think ofyour retirement strategy on your
own.
We also talk about malpracticeand we talk about.
Covering your S-corp.
Of course, malpractice is notcovered in so many of our
(28:51):
medical education.
I, I once tweeted a few yearsago, I had 10 weeks off at the
end of medical school, so youjust can't tell me that there's
no time for a, a day, a coupleof days to teach physicians
about malpractice.
Even physicians who may be stayfull, fully employed at a, at a
large institution for theirentire careers.
I think it's a, a very maliciousand egregious omission from our,
(29:14):
from our medical education.
But we talk about it for some ofthe things I do, some of them,
not all of them, some you doneed to get your own malpractice
policy.
We talk about how to get it, andfinally we talk about starting a
physician S-Corp or LLC, whichis just a amazing tax mitigation
strategy.
Let me.
Also just back up saying, I donot have an MBA, I never got
one.
I don't plan to get one.
(29:35):
You do not need an MBA.
You don't need a fellowship,another fellowship.
You don't need a pile of cash.
All of the things that I thinkwe think we need in order to
make a big change in our livesand our careers, you know that,
that more education is ourcurrency, right?
That's what we're taught.
Oh, you don't like your job?
Well then you probably should godo a peds cardiology fellowship.
(29:55):
That just, that was, I knew thatwasn't the right answer for me,
but I certainly see how thatkind of thinking can, can, can
creep into so many physicians'minds.
So, I, I want to tell you, weteach all of those things in the
doctoring differently summerseries and in the doctoring
differently academy because you,you absolutely don't need to
wait.
You don't need an MBA you.
(30:15):
All you need is the belief thatyou deserve a, a happy, healthy,
and respected life as aphysician.
Dr. Maryal Concepcion (30:22):
This is Maya, Dr.
Naomi Lawrence Reid is my go-toperson when it comes to position
side gigs.
I am so grateful for you comingonto the podcast and sharing
your expertise, just the littlescrape of the surface.
So tell us now where people canfind you, where they can sign up
for the summer series and wherethey can go for the academy.
Dr. Naomi Lawrence-Reid (30:41):
Sure.
So everything, everything,everything
is@doctoringdifferently.com.
There's a banner at the topthat, that says Sign up for
summer series.
Right now you can see our, oursummer course syllabus, but in
the website you'll see links forthe full academy, which again is
a digital recorded course thathas over nine hours of content.
Uh, Within the academy we haveweekly q and as.
(31:04):
Every month of the year with thewhole community, with me.
You bring your successes, youbring your rants, you bring your
victories you bring yourlearning, and we talk about it
every single month.
So that's within the academy.
But here we're, we're recordingmid-July.
I'm, I'm doing a series rightnow, a live series in July.
It's going so well.
These doctors are learning somuch.
As I've pulled this high yieldcontent, the top five, oh, I
(31:26):
love the term.
I love that billboard.
I'm feeling very like uh, thankyou Diva.
I should be floating in the skyon tour.
Thank you so much.
Anyway, I love that billboardreference, and that is, that
billboard is what we're doing inAugust.
So if anything that I've talkedabout or mentioned has sparked
an interest or a thought,hopefully a daydream, hopefully
(31:46):
it's lit a match for you thatyou're like, Ooh, I have thought
about that.
And I don't know, I don't knowthis full-time physician.
I don't know if I can do thisthing forever, this full-time
clinical, please.
This is your opportunity I havethe time in August to do it in
the summer.
I don't know that I'll be ableto do it the rest of the year,
so I wanna teach this live toget your.
Questions live, but we gosequentially.
(32:08):
Each Tuesday night in August, wewill go down the list of the top
five, but also the money andbusiness of doctoring
differently and how to find, howto start, how to secure your
future, how to protect yourassets as you go.
And oh, by the way, we teach resresignation too.
How to write a resignationletter the way I had to Google
it after my diaper chair.
(32:28):
We should know how to writeresignation letters.
So I'll show you mine.
It's not great, but we learnfrom it and we write better
resignation letters and we learnhow to resign without burning
bridges because, that'sultimately what we wanna do.
We can maintain goodrelationships with our
community, but we also deserveto explore new opportunities if
that's what we want to do.
Dr. Maryal Concepcion (32:46):
So empowering.
Again, go to doctoringdifferently.com to sign up and
connect with Dr.
Lawrence Reed after thispodcast.
Dr. Naomi Lawrence-Reid (32:54):
And I will add one more thing here.
Everything that I've talkedabout, my billboard list of, of
medical writing and expertwitness and locums and per diem
and, and veteran disability and,and medical writing, all of
these things.
They can be bridges into athriving DPC practice.
They can be the thing that kindof you start to do as you're
(33:15):
building your cash flow, asyou're getting used to working
as an independent physician awayfrom a full-time W2 employer.
These are steps that you canslowly and intentionally take,
so it doesn't necessarily feellike a huge leap from a
full-time employed job.
Into your own thriving DPCpractice.
(33:35):
This can be a bridge, this canbe constant, consistent cash
flow doing per diem, doingexpert witness, doing a, a
locums gig or something likethat, or all of these things can
be done on your way to a DPCpractice while you're doing it.
Quite frankly, I think everyphysician should be exploring
some of these opportunities atsome point in their career.
(33:58):
By the way, you can pick them upand you can put them down.
Nothing has to be happening.
All the time.
Go, go, go.
I think as your interestschange, as your personal needs
change, as your needs with yourfamily change, we can do new
things and we can decide to putthings, some things on hold and
pick up something else.
So just know that these areentirely flexible.
They change with you.
(34:18):
I think we're now in a.
In a time in history where thesejobs need to fit into our lives
and not the other way around.
So just know you can do these asyou start your practice while
you're in your practice.
And let's be clear, these canall be done at the end, maybe
near retirement.
There's so many options for thisremote, flexible, but
intellectually fun andstimulating work for all
(34:39):
doctors.
Thank you so much for coming ontoday.
You are so, so welcome.
And I'll just say sign up forthe mailing list, even if you're
not ready to join the course orto join this.
Summer series.
If you go to the website, apopup will come and you can get
a full list of my guide to anumber of the careers that I
teach about.
But that'll help you sign up forthe list and just stay informed
(35:00):
about future offerings, courses,free webinars over at doctoring
differently.
So thank you for having me.
Dr. Maryal Concepcion (35:08):
Thank you for listening to another episode
of my DBC story.
If you enjoyed it, please leavea five star review on your
favorite podcast platform.
It helps others find the show,have a question about direct
primary care.
Leave me a voicemail.
You might hear it answered in afuture episode.
Follow us on socials at thehandle at my D DPC story and
join DPC didactics our monthlydeep dive into your questions
(35:30):
and challenges.
Links are@mydpcstory.com forexclusive content you won't hear
anywhere else.
Join our Patreon.
Find the link in the show notesor search for my DPC story on
patreon.com for DPC news on thedaily.
Check out DPC news.com.
Until next week, this isMarielle conception.
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