In this episode of the My DPC Story Podcast, Dr. Maryal Concepcion interviews Dr. Jimmy Moley, an adult and sports psychiatrist based in Independence, Ohio, who practices through a direct specialty care model. Dr. Moley shares why he opened his private practice right out of residency, highlighting the benefits of direct care—like enhanced accessibility, confidentiality for athletes, and truly patient-centered mental health treatment. He discusses how his flexible, cash-pay psychiatry model allows him to see new patients within a week, provide both medication management and CBT, and address holistic aspects of mental wellness, especially for athletes dealing with performance, injury recovery, and career transition. Dr. Moley also explains his approach to pricing, practice growth, networking with local trainers and gyms, and the rising demand for sports psychiatry. If you’re a physician or athlete seeking innovative mental health support without the limitations of insurance-based care, this episode delivers actionable insights into building and benefiting from direct care psychiatry. For more about Dr. Moley, his services in Ohio and Florida, and sports psychiatry’s unique role, visit jimmymolymd.com.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr. Maryal Concepcion (00:04):
Direct Primary care is an innovative
alternative path toinsurance-driven healthcare.
Typically, a patient pays theirdoctor a low monthly membership
and in return builds a lastingrelationship with their doctor
and has their doctor availableat their fingertips.
Welcome to the My DPC Storypodcast, where each week you
(00:26):
will hear the ever so relatablestories shared by physicians who
have chosen to practice medicinein their individual communities
through the direct primary caremodel.
I'm your host, MarielleConception.
Family, physician, DPC, owner,and former fee for service.
Doctor, I hope you enjoy today'sepisode and come away feeling
inspired about the future ofpatient care direct primary
(00:49):
care.
Dr. Jimmy Moley (00:53):
I would say that this method of practicing
medicine has allowed me to liveout my dream of helping patients
in a way that makes sense to me.
It allows me to deliver what Iconsider to be high level care
in a way that's on my terms,that makes sense, that allows me
to address all of the aspects ofmental health care that I
believe need to be accuratelyaddressed to improve mental
(01:14):
healthcare in the patients thatI treat.
I think it allows me to giveownership of the business and
ownership of my life and mydrive in a way that working, for
other people or otherinstitutions does not.
And it really is a way for meto, to live out my dream, to, to
really, put into action, why,thinking back to when I went
into medicine, why I reallystarted with that vision and,
and really bring that to life.
(01:35):
So I would say it's for peoplewho are highly motivated, for
people who are willing to put inthe work and, and to really
build something up that is theirown and want to really create a
vision for themselves and theirfuture.
That can be some of the mostrewarding work I feel that you
can do in this area.
I'm Dr.
Jimmy Moley and this is mydirect specialty care story.
Dr. Maryal Concepcion (01:57):
Dr.
Jimmy Moley is a private adultand sports psychiatrist located
in Independence, Ohio.
He provides high level mentalhealth care, including
medication management andpsychotherapy services to
individuals ages 15 and up inOhio and Florida.
Dr.
Moley received his undergraduatedegree from the University of
Notre Dame, completed medicaleducation and training at the
(02:17):
Ohio State University, and iscertified by the International
Society for Sports Psychiatry.
Dr.
Moley is a published scientificauthor.
And has been recognized for hiswork in the field of head
injuries and sport relatedconcussion, as well as the
intersection of somatic medicineand psychiatry.
Welcome to the podcast, Dr.
Moley.
Dr. Jimmy Moley (02:38):
Hey, thank you for having me.
Dr. Maryal Concepcion (02:39):
Your episode is coming out after
multiple people who I had met atthe same time where I met you at
the Ohioan Summit.
It was so exciting to hear whatyou were doing because you did
so many things that I loved.
Just, from your intro at the onsummit, you, you talked about
how you opened after residency,how you are really leaning into
(02:59):
sports, psychiatry, and you evenexplained to people in the room
who weren't familiar with that,with what that was, that that's
even a thing.
And as we heard in your bio,there's even an international
Society for sports psychiatry.
So super exciting that you'rebringing your expertise to the
cash pay model of, ofpracticing.
And I wanted to start with.
(03:20):
This fact that you opened rightout of residency, that is
something that we've had peopleon the podcast share from family
practice, internal medicine,pediatrics, but in this
specialty world, tell us aboutyour exposure and drive to go
into private medicine versusjoining a corporation right
after finishing residency.
Dr. Jimmy Moley (03:42):
That's a great question and I think really
shapes a lot of the ideas behindwhy I started the practice.
So when I started my psychiatryresidency, I, I, immediately
started to think, what, whatcomes next?
And, and being forward thinkinglike that.
So I knew that I was interestedin sports psychiatry pretty
early on.
I would say from a, it was timein my first year and one of the
best things I think that I didwas talk to a number of mentors
(04:03):
in the field who do this sort ofwork and, really learn from
their experiences and, and whatI kept.
Coming across story after storywere, physicians who had spent
years in academic medicine andinstitutional medicine, right?
That eventually, for lack of abetter phrase, became fed up
with the system, right, and, andwent out on their own.
And they pretty much universallydescribed higher rates of
(04:23):
satisfaction, better control oftheir schedules.
Better reimbursement ratesacross the board and just
overall greater satisfactionwith their life and work.
So it became, pretty clear andconvincing to me as I gathered
the evidence, right.
And, not having that experience,but seeing this path that, that
so many people had had worndown.
And realizing that, that therewas a way that I could start
this off right away.
So I talked to a few differentpeople.
(04:45):
I, I did talk to hospitalsystems, in the area just to
gather their input and kind ofpitched my vision for sports
psychiatry and, and how thiscould all work.
And, and it really did not seemto align right with the
structures that were in place.
So it became pretty clear to meas I moved through that process
that in order to practice in away that made sense to me, in a
way, allowed me to, really enactmy vision for what I wanted to
(05:06):
do with my career and my life.
That, that private practice anddirect specialty care of is the
way to go.
Dr. Maryal Concepcion (05:12):
I love it and I think it's.
Even more relatable these daysto so many residents who are
asking similar questions nomatter what their specialty is.
So I wanna ask there, because asyou talked with people, and as
you just realize this is the,the way for me forward is going
to be in private practice, inorder for me to have the time I
need to practice my specialty tothe level that I'm trained to
(05:32):
and want to I'm wondering abouthow you went intentionally
building a practice to meetthese levels of, autonomy and
satisfaction with practice andreally, really getting to the
avatar, the ideal patient who,is very, very much in sports as
well as, their mental health.
(05:52):
And so if you could tell usabout how you intentionally
built your practice, I thinkthat would be really helpful for
the audience as well.
Dr. Jimmy Moley (06:00):
Definitely I, yeah, I started to recognize
some needs that, that athletesin particular had in the mental
health space.
So, one of the first andforemost is confidentiality and
privacy, right?
In an athlete's world, there area number of different
stakeholders in their wellbeingand their performance and
everything like that, right?
So privacy and trust comesfirst.
I talked to a number ofphysicians who, had bad
(06:20):
experiences where it's, it'ssometimes hard to say, that you
can establish trust when theteam, the organization, the
hospital, signed your checks.
Right.
So it's really, it was kind of,that was the original idea of,
of maintaining that independencein order to best serve the
people that I'm treating.
So that was a big factor.
I also think that the way mentalhealthcare is set up in many
instances, in, in large academicsettings in particular, is
(06:42):
focused on efficiency, right?
Is focused on productionmetrics, RVU targets, and, all
of those sorts of things,billing metrics.
So, from that standpoint, theway appointment slots are
designed, the way schedules arebuilt, the way decision trees
are built right, is not reallyplacing the emphasis on the care
and the patient themselves.
So that's really the way Iwanted to design things.
I wanted to be able to set myown schedule to allow for more
(07:03):
of a, a higher level of care,more holistic level of care.
Right, that I feel like mentalhealth care often demands,
right?
That if we have 15 minutes to,do a medication check, it
doesn't address sleep, exercise,diet, social health, and all of
these factors that have beenshown repeatedly in the
literature to play just as muchof a role in mental health care
outcomes, as do medications.
(07:24):
So I really felt, to, toethically practice the way that
I wanted to, to address all ofthose, determinants of health
that this was, again, the rightchoice for me.
Dr. Maryal Concepcion (07:32):
If you are not yet in direct specialty
care or direct primary care andyou are tasting that vomit in
your mouth when Dr.
Malises our views, that is real.
So now I would love if youcould.
Explain to the audience similarto you, to when you meet,
especially another primary caredoctor who's looking into
potentially referring patientsto your practice, how do you
(07:54):
explain your practice?
Because you're in two differentstates and you also in, you also
offer visits in person as wellas virtual.
So, if, if a primary care doctorwould were to come and say, Hey,
Dr.
Moley, I found your informationonline.
Tell me more about yourpractice.
What would you tell them todescribe what you do?
Dr. Jimmy Moley (08:11):
So I, I start off by emphasizing the
accessibility of the practice.
So I keep my practiceintentionally small, and I do
that in order to maintain,access to, to early
appointments.
So my, my, unofficial kind ofclaim is that I see all new
patients within one week.
Right Now when you compare orcontrast that to other health
systems in the area, we'retalking probably two to three
months on average, right?
(08:32):
So that's a big difference.
And, and oftentimes when peoplein the area need mental health
care, they, they can't afford towait two to three months, right?
That, that oftentimes is thedifference between maybe needing
a higher level of care or beingable to manage a problem on the
outpatient basis, which now whenwe're weighing cost benefit,
starts to change the equation.
Right.
So I talk about accessibility.
I talk about ways that, thatpatients are able to get ahold
(08:52):
of me while maintainingappropriate boundaries, within a
healthcare setting.
But I do feel like I am probablymore accessible, right, than a
lot of other physicians.
So patients are able to messageme directly through the
electronic health record.
There's no filters, right?
That I'm able to, to stayflexible with treatment plans to
adjust on the fly, which again,in mental health care, right?
We, we don't have often ways topredict how individuals will
(09:13):
respond to medications.
So that flexibility, I think, isreally key.
And then really emphasizing, toa primary care doctor or anyone
else who's referring, Hey, the,a lot of these issues that you
know.
Present, typically to apsychiatrist, are very
multifaceted, right?
So if you're treating, a patientfor high blood pressure, that
also happens to have anxiety,right?
Those things we know are, arevery closely intertwined.
Mm-hmm.
(09:34):
So, I think that that my work,hopefully with the goal right,
is to address multiple differenthealth outcomes to address, the
wellbeing of the person as awhole.
And the idea that, we're notjust reducing the frequency or
intensity of panic attacks,we're treating the whole person,
we're trying to optimize theirwellness.
And as we move forward, from anillness model to a wellness
model, then our goals willchange.
(09:54):
And, and this is a holisticexperience.
So that, that's kind of thepitch, and that I believe that,
really, when a patient, when wedecide to agree, enter into an
treatment agreement that we'rereally agreeing to, to really
work on all aspects of theirlife together.
Dr. Maryal Concepcion (10:08):
Yeah.
That's awesome.
And I'm wondering in terms of,as your practice has grown
because you opened in 2024 and.
You are treating people 15 andup.
I'm wondering who were theinitial patients that came to
your practice?
Were they patients of DPCdoctors or were they patients
who knew you?
(10:29):
I would love to hear who foundyour practice first.
Dr. Jimmy Moley (10:33):
Sure.
So my initial very small cohortwere, were, were patients that
followed me from residentclinics.
So I moved cities right fromColumbus to Cleveland, but there
were a number of patients whowere able to follow me.
So that, that was nice and, andable to, to get things off the
ground that way.
I would say the bulk of myinitial referrals though, did
come from DPC docs or, orprivate healthcare docs.
And I think that was a trendthat that has continued.
(10:53):
I mean, it has expanded rightover time, but I think,
understanding the modelfamiliarity, right?
And that goes for both theprovider and the patient, right,
was critical.
It's just more of a seamlessintegration.
So I think that that was theinitial.
And then I think also, word ofmouth between patients, and I
often say that's probably myfavorite type of referral,
right?
Because it means that thatpatients are engaged and
patients feel that they'rereceiving good, good treatment.
(11:15):
So when a patient's able to talkand share and, and kind of build
those networks, it kind oforganically grows over time.
Dr. Maryal Concepcion (11:22):
Awesome.
And so echoed by the many guestswho've shared that on this
podcast where, the word of mouthis so much more powerful than a
print ad, a billboard, superBowl ad.
I'm getting into sarcasm again,but when it comes to the
patients who I, I think about asa primary care doctor, there
will be something that I ampicking up in a patient where
(11:45):
psychiatry referral isdefinitely warranted.
And I'm wondering, when ageneral psychiatry referral is
on the table versus somebody whois specifically looking for
sports, psychiatry and or CBT asa, an option with their
psychiatrist, how do you select,from anybody who has a, a
(12:07):
general referral to one that'smore specific?
How do you.
How do you look at that pool ofpatients to say, this is a
great, this person's going to bea great fit for my practice.
Dr. Jimmy Moley (12:19):
Right.
So I do advertise, like yousaid, adult and sports
psychiatry and, and there is avery wide variety of patients
that I see, right?
So it's not just athletes.
Athletes make probably anywherefrom 25 to 50% of the practice
at any given time.
So part of, I think my practiceis, I, I do have an initial
assessment that I meet with thepatient.
We go through, we outlinetreatment planning, but at the
end of that assessment we dodecide is this the best fit,
(12:41):
right?
And that goes for myself and thepatient.
So we both have to agree toenter into that contract.
So I think that's one thing.
And then, I, very clearly statethat if, if either one of us
doesn't feel it's totally fineto move on and I want them to
get the best resource that theypossibly can.
So I'd say the patients that,that tend to work well within
this model and, and have thebest outcomes are, are ones that
are, are highly motivated.
Right.
(13:01):
This is something where we are,working outside the system,
right?
It is, like you said, a directpay cash model and not shy about
that.
That is part of the part of thedeal.
So I think it's patients who arehighly motivated, who are really
willing to invest in theirmental health and, and put in
the work, right?
It's, it's a little bit more ofan active process, but I think
that that activity and that thatdemand on that side also
generates better outcomes overtime.
Dr. Maryal Concepcion (13:21):
I love that, and I think it's, as you
drew, commonalities betweenspecialty and primary care.
Previously, I think that that issomething that I see much more
commonly in our practice as aprimary care practice, is that
the people who understand thatthey're investing in paying for
their doctor and access to theirdoctor are much more invested
and motivated to, follow throughwith treatment plans, et cetera.
(13:45):
Not everybody, but I definitelywould say it's, it's more
common.
So That's awesome.
And in terms of you gettingtraining to do CBT, so cognitive
behavioral therapy for thosepeople unsure of CBT as an
acronym, I'm wondering when did,did, was that something that you
were able to get certificationin while in residency or was
(14:05):
that something that you didafter you had opened your
practice?
Dr. Jimmy Moley (14:09):
It's a good question.
So it is something that I did doduring residency, and every
residency program in psychiatryis slightly different, right?
I, I'd say every program hassome component of therapy
training some much more thanothers, and, and sometimes in
different types of therapy.
So Ohio State was able to offer,training in both CPT and
psychodynamic therapy, and I, itdepends on your level of
interest, how much they'llengage and kind of provide
(14:30):
supervision, training,certification, that sort of
thing.
So I was somebody who took verywell to it.
I, I found it very interestingand found that it complimented
my work well for patients whowanted to pursue that path.
Some of my, probably morerewarding cases are ones where
we can engage in both medicationmanagement and psychotherapy.
I feel like that eliminates somebarriers, right?
In terms of, of differentproviders and communication and,
(14:51):
and really trust levels, right?
There's so much interactionthere.
So I enjoy it as a big part ofmy work.
I think that it informs a lotof, a lot of what I do, and I
feel I, I feel very wellprepared as a result of my
residency training.
Dr. Maryal Concepci (15:01):
Absolutely.
And I think that that is sopowerful to be, talking about
different modalities oftreatment, all, all from one
physician.
As a general practitionermyself, I am like all for how
many tools can we have in thetool belt?
So that is awesome.
And I'm wondering, when it comesto specifically the sports
psychiatry patients, can youtalk to us about you, you
(15:22):
mentioned it a little bit, butin terms of the specific health
needs that you see with athletesin particular talk to us about
what types of things you see inathletes especially.
I, I would say the more commonthings that you would see in
athletes, but also the thingsthat are more unique to athletes
that people might notnecessarily pick up on with a
(15:44):
typical, well child check form.
Sure,
Dr. Jimmy Moley (15:47):
sure.
Well, one thing is that we knowthat certain, very common quote
unquote, bread and butter mentalillness is more common in
athletes, right?
So, for instance, athletes havea significantly higher rate of
PTSD, right?
Than the general population.
Certain forms of anxiety,depression, right?
All of these things we know kindof can play in at higher rates,
substance abuse eating disordersright across the board.
(16:07):
So that, that's kind of one sideof things that we know that
maybe each of those illnessestakes on a different flavor with
an athlete, or is specificallyinformed by aspects of their,
their work and their profession.
The other aspect is more of theperformance optimization space
and unique aspects to being anathlete, right?
So we're learning, I think moreand more how we can channel,
especially therapy techniques toreally enhance performance and
(16:29):
really kind of, regulate ournervous system and really do
things to enhance, heart ratevariability, all, all these kind
of biometric impacts that, thatwe have on performance.
So that's one piece.
And then there's also, verycommon issues I deal with a lot
post-injury.
Kind of situations where we kindof treat as more of a grief
process.
Working through that.
I see a lot of athletespost-retirement is another big,
(16:50):
you know, a lot of suddenchanges, right?
With an athlete that really pullinto question elements of
identity, purpose and, andthings like that.
So, there are certain elementsthat are very unique to athletes
and like I said, even amongstthe common, mental health
issues, there's certain thingsthat are about those illnesses
that we have to treat andapproach slightly differently.
Dr. Maryal Concepcion (17:06):
I love this.
And the, the generalist in me isgeeking out because, I, I wanna
ask here, when you are able todo CBT, when you are able to do
medication management, when youare able to be accessible by
your patients and you are ableto talk about things like
holistic care, lifestylemedicine, impacting a person's
health, I'm wondering, when youthink of a treatment plan for
(17:27):
somebody, say just making up acase here a 22-year-old who is
was dealing with a sports injuryand you know, they're wanting to
return to play at a highcollegiate level what would a
typical treatment plan be?
I mean, clearly you can'tgeneralize anyone's care.
But in terms of like how youwould weave in.
(17:49):
Potentially CBT and medicationmanagement and lifestyle
medicine, because I think thisis fascinating.
As a primary care doctor, we dothis stuff all the time,
depending on, we make arecommendation, the patient
tries something, we adjust.
And I can see it being verysimilar, but I'm wondering,
especially because you are aspecialist in psychiatry, how
you weave all of those thingstogether.
And I hope that this is helpfulfor people who are like, oh my
(18:11):
gosh, I could totally send apatient to Dr.
Moley after listening to him.
Dr. Jimmy Moley (18:15):
Right, right.
That's the challenge, right?
Is how do we, how do we addressevery issue that the athlete
faces?
So I, I think therapy isprobably more of a universal
recommendation at this point,right?
That if you're coming to meafter a dramatic change or a
sudden change, that we need tobe able to talk about that,
explore things and work onthings.
Right Now, if you're at a pointwhere you're not able to, to
enter into that space because ofthe mental challenges, then
(18:36):
maybe that's where medicationsteps in.
Right.
I oftentimes describe,medications as being able to, to
raise the floor of the mentalillness, to allow you to engage
in the work that will allow youto actually recover and start to
feel better.
So that, that oftentimes is thediscussion around medicine.
Now, oftentimes, like you said,it is kind of that generalist
role in the space.
Like sometimes the medication,for the NCAA might require a, a
(18:57):
therapeutic use exemption,right?
So there's, there's paperwork onthat end.
There's consultations with thecoaches, the other docs, the
trainers everything kind ofmultiple pieces here, trying to,
to weave in and, and kind ofpaint the full picture.
So, ongoing therapy, medicationswhen needed, and collaboration
with school teams, parents, allof the stakeholders really is,
is kind of the fundamentalmodel.
(19:18):
And then, like you said, asthings start to improve and as
we're able to optimize, we're,we're weaving in lifestyle
factors, we're talking aboutsleep, diet, physical
conditioning, right?
And how we can enhance themedication and the therapy side
with everything else altogether.
That's
Dr. Maryal Concepcion (19:32):
so cool.
And I, I just think that,especially with.
I was talking to some moms inthe OC about this when we had
our California DPC summit just acouple weeks ago.
And like we were talking aboutthe, the level of competition
that happens between families,especially in high school
sports.
And so, and my boys are, I haveone still in pull-ups and so,
(19:54):
it's, I'm not there yet, but I Ithink that this is, it's so
fascinating for people to hearthat.
Sports psychiatry is a thing andyou are delivering that and you
do it even virtually as well asin person.
So I wanna ask here, especiallyas you talked about, you know
how because this is, this iswhat we do as direct specialty
and direct primary care doctorswho are in the cash pay model.
(20:16):
You get paid to just be adoctor.
And as you like, that includestalking to, potentially other
doctors on the persons and theathletes team or or healthcare
team or their trainer orwhatnot.
And so I'm wondering, as you'vetalked with people for your
patients, have you alsonetworked with people, gym
owners or sports teams?
(20:37):
And how have you gone about thatto you just, just share about
one sports psychiatry is athing.
Mental health and athletes is athing.
And also that you are open forbusiness in, in case athletes
were to need your services.
Dr. Jimmy Moley (20:51):
Right, right.
And, and that is a big part ofwhat I do is network, especially
in maybe the morenon-traditional areas, right?
I, I've talked to countless gymowners, trainers, physical
therapists, right?
And really trying to enter intothe space because those are the
people that are seeing athleteson a daily basis.
I.
Right.
Oftentimes that relationship is,is a very intimate, trusting
relationship, right?
Akin to maybe something like atherapist, right?
(21:12):
So they're, they're boots on theground seeing athletes every
day.
So talking to them too aboutmaybe types of patients that I
see, right?
Types of things that I can helpwith and kind of painting.
I think real life examples isprobably the biggest thing that
I can do.
So if I can talk, generallyabout performance anxiety or, or
give a presentation about what aDHD in a college athlete might
look like, right?
And, and how we treat that.
(21:32):
I think those are prettypowerful examples.
And then, and when I'm makespeaking those messages, then
it's like, oh yeah, I know soand so that, that might be
struggling with that.
Right?
And might be able to refer them.
So I do a fair amount ofeducational presentations, so
that's to, to gyms, high schoolstraining groups around the area
where I'm at in Cleveland.
The other, there's quite a fewgyms and, and kinda, there's a
big culture around athletics inthe area.
So, that's been nice to reallytap into that, that group.
(21:55):
And what I'm finding too is thatthere, there is a, a tremendous
need and an eagerness really totalk about the mental health
side.
That's one thing I wasn't quitesure on going in, but I think
people recognize more and morethat a lot of times this is what
holds back injury recovery orperformance optimization.
Right.
So it's really pairing theresources with the tremendous
need that exists in thecommunity.
Dr. Maryal Concepcion (22:14):
I wonder, I if you can also point out some
trends that you've seen to helpsupport that more, more general
acceptance of and wanting tolearn about mental health when
it comes to athletes inparticular.
Dr. Jimmy Moley (22:25):
Right.
I mean, stigma's been around aslong as mental health care
treatment has existed, right?
And we've come a long way, andI, I think partly, and due to
examples of athletes speakingforward, I, I think the message
becomes so much more powerfulwhen you're able to see other
people that have gone throughsimilar experiences share their
story, right?
So if I can, weave in peoplethat I know, or trainers or
other professionals in the areawho have, who've been through
(22:47):
this, right?
And I mean, I, I played sports,but also, like I, I'm in a
different role, right?
Than those people.
So I think weaving in thoseexamples is very powerful and,
and just really starting theconversation being, making it
known that, that I am availableand here are the services,
right?
Can't tell you how many timesI've, I've given presentations
and, and athletes or formerathletes say, oh man, when I was
in college, I wish I knew thatthis kind of thing existed,
(23:08):
right?
So that, that's half the battleis really making it known that,
that I'm out here, that here'sthe services that I can offer
and here's how I might be ableto help.
Dr. Maryal Concepcion (23:16):
Very cool.
And when you talk about,particular presentations that
are really, really attractiveand desired by different groups
what are some of the most, whatare like even the titles or the
topics of the the most popularones that you tend to talk about
or tend to be asked to talkabout?
Dr. Jimmy Moley (23:32):
I would say probably performance anxiety is
probably right at the top.
I would say A DHD is anothervery common topic, right.
And I, I would say, honestly,some things that, that maybe
don't get discussed as much inpopular culture eating disorders
certainly one and then PTSD.
And, and recognizing the signsand, and saying, Hey, it may
something you may have gonethrough years ago maybe still
affects your athleticperformance.
(23:53):
Right?
Or maybe the pressures thatyou're feeling to, to make a
certain weight right in aparticular sport or, or, enhance
some sort of aspect of yourphysical performance is leading
you to maybe, abnormal eatingpatterns or, or patterns that
aren't healthy of intake andoutput.
So asking the right questions,giving examples, and then
highlighting issues that, that Ihear, all the time from athletes
I think has been the best, besttactic.
Dr. Maryal Concepcion (24:15):
Yeah, I think it's so cool.
And, I think about corporationswhen education type stuff
happens and it's not typicallythat the corporation is having a
doctor talk to the community.
It's usually like thecorporation will sponsor the
bags that like carry the swagand stuff.
And so I think that, how, howdifferent, even just from the,
(24:38):
not just the perception, but theexperience of you and your.
Your expertise to be hearing adoctor talk about these things
that people are wanting to knowmore about.
And just even hearing oneacknowledgement, again, like I
just, I keep leaning on thatthat International Society for
Sports Psychiatry exists, butalso that, I'm sure by just
(25:00):
giving these talks and hearingthese talks, people are
empowered to even know, like howto screen differently or how to,
keep their spidey senses up forlike, this is something I am
concerned about in my athlete.
And so just the education I'msure does so much in terms of
even just planting the seed forpeople who are like, oh, like
you mentioned, the, the personwho's like in, in college.
(25:22):
I wish I would've known thatsomething like this existed.
I, I, I am so, I am just, Ithink about all of the people
who are gonna have futureathletes or the ones who have
athletes and their thinkingabout.
One of your talks.
Now.
I just think that this is, thisis really getting to the heart
of, you have on your, yourwebsite your mission, vision,
and values, but it's it's reallygetting to the heart of making
(25:44):
care transparent and accessibleand affordable.
So I love this.
Now, when we talk aboutaffordability, I I would love if
you could talk to us about howyou went from residency to
opening up your practice withpricing, because this, I think,
is a very big challenge and avery big place of questioning
from specialists in particularof different fields.
(26:05):
It could be outpatient, it couldbe inpatient, like surgery.
It could be.
Somebody who's just not used tothe idea of, could I have a
membership, like in primarycare, we're different beasts
because we see people for 80 to90% of things that they're
concerned about.
But when you developed yourpricing I wanna, I, I would love
if you can share with us likehow you valued your services so
(26:27):
that there, it's not like thequote unquote cheap bottle of
wine, but it's also not, out ofthe way to, to make it for only
people have seven figuresalaries.
Because when you're talkingabout you, your promise to
people is pre, pretty much,you'll see them in a week.
I mean, and then you, you madethe comment about two to three
months.
I'm like non Calvers County.
Like you want psychiatry.
It's way more than two to threemonths to see somebody.
(26:49):
And so, I think about, time andexpertise is one thing, but also
that accessibility is so hard toprice,
Dr. Jimmy Moley (26:56):
right, right.
No, it's a challenge.
It's a challenge for sure.
What I, what I did first andforemost was kind of survey
other psychiatrists in the area,so I know both nationally and
locally, what are, what do pricepoints look like you said, with
intention that, that I do, feelconfident in the services that I
provide that access is worthsomething, right?
That, that, being outside of thesystem and the level of privacy,
confidentiality, appointmentlength times, right?
(27:17):
Those are all unique and I thinkthey have to be priced as such,
like you said, otherwise itloses some of the value.
And to be honest, like I, I havea lot of conversations and, and
a lot of conversations end whenI start to talk about price, to
be honest.
And I think over time you growcomfortable with those kind of
conversations.
Knowing that this isn't theright product for everybody, but
for people who it is the rightproduct for, it's a tremendous
(27:38):
service, and I think the pricereflects that.
And you know it, over time,those conversations, like I
said, just become morecomfortable.
You become more confident in, inthe model that you're delivering
and you stay flexible too on thefly.
I mean, that things can changeover time, but, but responding
to how patients react, I thinkis important.
Dr. Maryal Concepcion (27:54):
Talk to us about how you looked at your
services when it comes tomembership versus one-off
services.
Dr. Jimmy Moley (28:00):
Right.
I, what's a little bit uniqueabout mental health too, is, is
the idea of boundaries, right?
And, and, and healthy care.
So if we're looking at, asituation with a membership and,
and kind of unlimited visits, I,I do think that presents
somewhat of a differentchallenge in the mental
healthcare field.
Right.
Typically when, when we work onan issue we're addressing kind
of, whether it's depression oranxiety or things like that.
There's, there is more of acadence right, to the
(28:22):
appointments.
I also, ideally we're going tomove to a point, with kind of
specialist care where there's achance you might be able to just
go back to your PCP, right?
There's a chance that this ismore of a one-off consultation
or ideally we get to the pointof remission where I only have
to see you maybe once every sixmonths.
At that, that point, amembership fee doesn't make
sense financially for myself orfor the patient.
So I think this, the structuremakes sense more for me right
(28:43):
now.
And that's not to say it mightchange in the future or for each
individual patient, but I thinkthe goals of special direct
specialty care are maybeslightly different in the issues
that we see and that theoutcomes that we're working
towards.
Dr. Maryal Concepcion (28:55):
Totally.
And that said, I'm wondering doyou have strategy as to how many
patients you want to take onyour panel to be, quote unquote
full?
Whether that person is in amembership base, whether that
person's just having a one,one-off service.
I'm wondering, because this issomething that other specialists
have asked about, like how doyou, if you don't have
(29:16):
exclusively memberships, how doyou, look at your your
forecasting of what your clinicis actually making if your, if
your balance is swaying betweenmemberships and one-off
services.
Dr. Jimmy Moley (29:30):
Right.
I, I think one of the importantthings is, is to really collect
data and try to track thingsover time.
So from the beginning I've beenable to, to really kind of track
all that data, look at wherereferral sources are coming
from, look how long patientsstay, what types of appointment
slots that are filling up themost frequently, right?
So that's allowed me to, Ithink, to get an idea in it and
kind of build some models maybethat predict and project future
growth.
(29:50):
So that's important.
There's always going to be anelement of unpredictability, and
I think that has to be just bebuilt in, and I think it's just
part of the process, right?
That, that some patients aregoing to drop off, move away, do
whatever.
And that, that has to befactored in.
So I think I mean it, that'spart of the nature of it, that
it is probably a little bit moreunpredictable.
But I think, with the, as thingscontinue to grow, I, I, I've
gone more based on feel here interms of, when I'm quote unquote
(30:13):
full.
Like I do keep slots open everyday for urgent or emergent
appointments, right?
So that, that's something Iwanna maintain.
I wanna maintain that one week,roughly timeframe to get new
patients in.
So kind of working within thoseframeworks, kind of feeling what
feels right to me in terms of mybandwidth and, and my ability to
take on work, I think makes themost sense where I can still
deliver that high level care tothe most amount of people
(30:34):
possible.
Dr. Maryal Concepcion (30:35):
I love that.
And when we talk aboutunpredictability, I'm wondering
if you can share with us anyunpredictable moments you've
experienced as an entrepreneurbecause you opened out a
residency and you're just likeme in terms of we don't have
MBAs and yet we're stillphysician entrepreneurs.
Dr. Jimmy Moley (30:51):
Right.
I mean, you could argue thewhole thing's been
unpredictable, right?
That there's no playbooknecessarily going into this kind
of thing.
But, I, I would say, I meanreferral, influx is, is all over
the place.
There's weeks I go where I get,10, 20 referrals.
There's also weeks where I getone or two, right?
So I think that I've kind oflearned at least so far that,
that I kind of have to ride thewave right of that and, and
learn to balance that witheverything.
And, and you never unexpectedthings happen all the time with
(31:12):
patient care.
Like I said, patients move away,things change, financial things
change.
And I just think you, there's acertain amount that I've had to
grow comfortable with that, thatunpredictability.
And I think if there's a, atendency, I think to maybe get a
little bit caught up into that,to maybe personalize that in a
way, say, what did I do wrong?
Or, tend to, to kind of takethat on myself.
But I think as you, as you seethe trends play out and, and
(31:33):
kinda look at things more overtime, it, it becomes clear that
that's just part of the natureof the industry.
Dr. Maryal Concepcion (31:37):
I do feel that, as physicians especially
when there's a lot of, we gointo this to take care of other
people that, that, that can,that internalization of oh, is
the business reflecting me as aperson is, is very common,
especially in the first, likethe opening months of a DPC
practice.
And I'm wondering for thosepeople who find that.
(32:00):
Description of, some weeks youhave fewer referrals than
others.
Really the, the listeners outthere who can really relate to
that in terms of, especiallythose people who are opening and
they, they might be writing thiswave of yes, I had one phone
call this week and last week Ihad a different number.
What words would you say to thatentrepreneur, that physician,
(32:20):
entrepreneur in particular?
To encourage them to, recognizetheir strengths, recognize where
they can improve on, and to keeppressing on.
Dr. Jimmy Moley (32:30):
I would say that, what worked for me
personally was seeing that as anopportunity to do other things
to enhance the practice.
So on slower weeks, that maybemeant more networking meetings,
right?
That meant more face-to-face,kind of going out, doing events,
trying to meet with, therapists,other physicians in the area.
I was able recently actually to,to launch a newsletter right
through the practice or do moreadvertising or work on the
website.
Right?
There's always things I feellike that I could be doing to,
(32:52):
to help build the practice.
And to me, if, if the patientvolume isn't there, then I'm
still adding value.
With my time because I, I found,with anything, like anything
else, like in life, like themore effort that I put in,
right, the better outcomes thatI'm going to see.
And, and this is hard work to behonest, I mean, I, I've had a
number of residents reach outand, and ask about it.
And, it, it seems like, oh,you're like, you get to make
your own rules and set your ownschedule.
(33:12):
It's well, yeah, but it's alsolike a ton of work on the back
end, and it's a lot of work tonetwork and, and push forward
the business.
So it's not necessarily a pathfor everybody, but I think, if
you have that drive and if youhave that kind of vision of
being an entrepreneur and youwanna pair that with some, care
that you feel comfortable withand care that you wanna deliver,
then I think the, the time fillsitself because there's always
moving pieces, there's alwaysthings to be done to, to push
(33:33):
forward.
Dr. Maryal Concepcion (33:35):
Awesome.
And as you mentioned newsletter,I'm wondering if you can tell us
about what are you putting tocraft your newsletter?
And do you have a newsletterspecifically for your patients,
or do you have a couple ofnewsletters?
One for people who might beinterested in sending you
potential patients in the futureas well as your current
patients.
Dr. Jimmy Moley (33:53):
So I have one newsletter.
It's you can subscribe throughthe website and it's a, a really
a method for me to just kind ofcommunicate a few different
ideas.
So I, I do create a sectionevery time to talk about, kind
of more recent literature, anykind of recent updates in
psychiatry, new technology, newarticles, things that are out
there in the media, right?
That, that people might runinto.
I do provide, a section for tipsor kind of things that are more
(34:14):
relevant maybe to this, this dayand age, right?
So for, for example, I did forJune, like ways to connect with
nature, right?
As the weather gets a little bitwarmer around here, ways to kind
of get out and incorporate that,into your mental health routine,
right?
And I, I really want to kindause it as a space to create
dialogue.
I actually have a number ofpatients always that, that
respond and it startsconversations, right?
It's just ways to, to thinkabout mental health, to promote
(34:35):
my work, and to just really,kind of create more of those
touchpoints, both with currentpatients and with, other docs,
prospective patients and thatsort of thing.
Dr. Maryal Concepcion (34:43):
Love it.
And in terms of your.
You're going forward.
I would love if you could talkto us about what do you see for
the future of your practice inthe next three to five years?
Do you see yourself having morestates where you're licensed in
doing telemedicine?
Do you see yourself addinganother doctor to your practice?
Especially just given that yourpractice like especially even by
(35:07):
your website the, the, the, thetitle, and I don't know if this
is your actual business or ifit's a DBA, but Jimmy Moley, MD
Adult and Sports Psychiatry isyour tagline on your website.
So I'm wondering, in terms ofgrowth do you see other doctors
working under your name?
Do you see evolving the brand?
Where do you see your practicein the next three to five years?
Dr. Jimmy Moley (35:29):
Yeah, that's the exciting part, right?
I, I've thought more and moreabout that as, as we approach
the one year mark, and I dothink expansion is probably in
the cards.
That's probably the next movethat I look to make.
The brand probably at that pointexpands beyond using my name as
the business name.
But I think, for right now, Ithink this makes sense for where
I'm at as I continue to grow.
And, and like you said, maybe inthe next one to three years, I,
I definitely look at thatbecause I feel like the model I
(35:51):
deliver makes sense.
And I, I do, I like theflexibility.
I've, I've always been somebodywho enjoyed variety in my
schedule and time.
And maybe clinical care fivedays a week full-time isn't,
isn't the best path for me,right?
So if we devote time to thebusiness and networking and
things that I've come to reallyenjoy, I balance that, with the
clinical care, schedule and alsokind of helping, expand the
reach and do educational work.
(36:12):
So I think that's the plan rightnow looking to, to maybe expand
here in the short order but alsojust continue to, to grow and
learn.
I mean, it, the progress I'vemade over one year has been,
remarkable.
I've learned so much.
So I'm sure that will justcontinue to develop naturally as
things go forward.
Dr. Maryal Concepcion (36:26):
I love it.
And as you talk about, spreadingthe word about what you're doing
and also how you mentioned evenresidents are asking you about,
oh, learning more about yourpractice and how you're
delivering.
I'm wondering if you can speakto the, because I would imagine,
and I think you mentioned thisin Ohio, that just the, the
world of international society,the, the world of people who are
(36:47):
focusing on sports, psychiatryis growing.
Mm-hmm.
And there needs to be morepeople.
But in terms of you speaking toyour colleagues, specifically in
sports psychiatry with howyou're doing things as a direct
model, do you see do you seelarger universities,
corporations trying to, puttheir own flavor to support
psychiatry?
(37:07):
Or do you see pretty much all ofyour colleagues just going
direct because of the time youneed and the, the, the level of
which you're working withathletes in particular?
Dr. Jimmy Moley (37:19):
It is an interesting mix and it's
interesting both within the USand internationally.
I would say the percentage ofprivate docs is probably higher
than most other groups, right.
Just because of the nature of itand like we've talked about.
So I think that's one thing.
It does sometimes work wellwithin academic setting.
There's a number of places inthe US that, that do a really
good job of sports, psychiatry,have, curriculums and built,
(37:39):
things built into the residencyprogram.
So that is definitely apossibility and I think we'll
continue to grow.
But I also think that there is,probably they have an earlier
jump and probably will continueto drive more in the private
space just because of the natureof the business.
Dr. Maryal Concepcion (37:51):
Yeah, I, none of that surprises me,
especially as you said, thenature of the business.
And I'm wondering, especiallyfor those physicians out there
who are in medical school or inresidency for, I'll restate
that.
For those who are physicians orfuture physicians in medical
school residency, I'm wonderingas you spoke with people, as you
(38:11):
made your decision to open aprivate practice, I'm wondering
just in terms of rotationsthings to look out for when
you're pairing mental healthwith sports in particular, what
things do you, recommend peopledo or get involved in so that,
so that by the time that they'reworking with athletes as a
private practitioner they, canhave more tools in their tool
(38:33):
belt.
Dr. Jimmy Moley (38:35):
I think diversity of experience is the
number one thing.
So that means spending time,with the sports medicine doc,
that means spending time, in thetraining room with physical
therapists, right?
On a primary care side, I didrotations through residency and
concussion clinics and inpediatric clinics and right
wherever.
'cause athletes are everywhere,right?
They, they seem, they seek thesame care as everyone else, so,
so that's really important.
(38:55):
I also think it's important toget exposure to private practice
in training.
It's something that I personallydidn't get much of through Ohio
State.
I had to create it on my own.
So I think that that's reallyimportant because in those
systems, it, it's, it's abubble, right?
You're, you see it, what you seeis, is what you think is the
reality.
And that's not always the casewhen you start to look at how
are actually physicianspracticing in, in my state, in
the country, in my region.
(39:17):
So expanding that vision alittle bit beyond what's
directly presented to you,diversity of experiences, and
then also getting involved withsome of these organizations.
So like the ISSP for example,involves you, they do have a
curriculum that residents can doand they will link you with a
mentor, not even necessarily inyour area.
So there are organizations outthere looking to, to promote,
raise awareness and, and educatelike you said, both physicians
(39:38):
and future physicians.
Dr. Maryal Concepcion (39:41):
That's fantastic.
And for those listening what isthe best way to find you,
especially if there's people outthere who are like, I have a
person I need to refer to.
Dr.
Moley, I.
Dr. Jimmy Moley (39:51):
Absolutely.
My website is the best way andhas the most information.
So that's jimmy moley md.com.
I'm also relatively active onInstagram, so that's at Jimmy
Moley md from the mo socialmedia side.
And you can also subscribe tothe newsletter through the
website.
Dr. Maryal Concepcion (40:04):
Awesome.
So we'll be continuing ourconversation about the ins and
outs of the business aspect ofyour practice, but on, on our
Patreon.
So, thank you so much Dr.
Moley for sharing today aboutyour specialty and how you've
taken psychiatry and blossomedit into your practice focusing
on both adult and sportspsychiatry.
Dr. Jimmy Moley (40:22):
Thank you.
Dr. Maryal Concepcion (40:27):
Thank you for listening to another episode
of my DBC story.
If you enjoyed it, please leavea five star review on your
favorite podcast platform.
It helps others find the show,have a question about direct
primary care.
Leave me a voicemail.
You might hear it answered in afuture episode.
Follow us on socials at thehandle at my D DPC story and
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(40:48):
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Find the link in the show notesor search for my DPC story on
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Until next week, this isMarielle conception.
Direct Primary care is an innovative
alternative path toinsurance-driven healthcare.
Typically, a patient pays theirdoctor a low monthly membership
and in return builds a lastingrelationship with their doctor
and has their doctor availableat their fingertips.
Welcome to the My DPC Storypodcast, where each week you
(00:26):
will hear the ever so relatablestories shared by physicians who
have chosen to practice medicinein their individual communities
through the direct primary caremodel.
I'm your host, MarielleConception.
Family, physician, DPC, owner,and former fee for service.
Doctor, I hope you enjoy today'sepisode and come away feeling
inspired about the future ofpatient care direct primary
(00:49):
care.
Dr. Jimmy Moley (00:53):
I would say that this method of practicing
medicine has allowed me to liveout my dream of helping patients
in a way that makes sense to me.
It allows me to deliver what Iconsider to be high level care
in a way that's on my terms,that makes sense, that allows me
to address all of the aspects ofmental health care that I
believe need to be accuratelyaddressed to improve mental
(01:14):
healthcare in the patients thatI treat.
I think it allows me to giveownership of the business and
ownership of my life and mydrive in a way that working, for
other people or otherinstitutions does not.
And it really is a way for meto, to live out my dream, to, to
really, put into action, why,thinking back to when I went
into medicine, why I reallystarted with that vision and,
and really bring that to life.
(01:35):
So I would say it's for peoplewho are highly motivated, for
people who are willing to put inthe work and, and to really
build something up that is theirown and want to really create a
vision for themselves and theirfuture.
That can be some of the mostrewarding work I feel that you
can do in this area.
I'm Dr.
Jimmy Moley and this is mydirect specialty care story.
Dr. Maryal Concepcion (01:57):
Dr.
Jimmy Moley is a private adultand sports psychiatrist located
in Independence, Ohio.
He provides high level mentalhealth care, including
medication management andpsychotherapy services to
individuals ages 15 and up inOhio and Florida.
Dr.
Moley received his undergraduatedegree from the University of
Notre Dame, completed medicaleducation and training at the
(02:17):
Ohio State University, and iscertified by the International
Society for Sports Psychiatry.
Dr.
Moley is a published scientificauthor.
And has been recognized for hiswork in the field of head
injuries and sport relatedconcussion, as well as the
intersection of somatic medicineand psychiatry.
Welcome to the podcast, Dr.
Moley.
Dr. Jimmy Moley (02:38):
Hey, thank you for having me.
Dr. Maryal Concepcion (02:39):
Your episode is coming out after
multiple people who I had met atthe same time where I met you at
the Ohioan Summit.
It was so exciting to hear whatyou were doing because you did
so many things that I loved.
Just, from your intro at the onsummit, you, you talked about
how you opened after residency,how you are really leaning into
(02:59):
sports, psychiatry, and you evenexplained to people in the room
who weren't familiar with that,with what that was, that that's
even a thing.
And as we heard in your bio,there's even an international
Society for sports psychiatry.
So super exciting that you'rebringing your expertise to the
cash pay model of, ofpracticing.
And I wanted to start with.
(03:20):
This fact that you opened rightout of residency, that is
something that we've had peopleon the podcast share from family
practice, internal medicine,pediatrics, but in this
specialty world, tell us aboutyour exposure and drive to go
into private medicine versusjoining a corporation right
after finishing residency.
Dr. Jimmy Moley (03:42):
That's a great question and I think really
shapes a lot of the ideas behindwhy I started the practice.
So when I started my psychiatryresidency, I, I, immediately
started to think, what, whatcomes next?
And, and being forward thinkinglike that.
So I knew that I was interestedin sports psychiatry pretty
early on.
I would say from a, it was timein my first year and one of the
best things I think that I didwas talk to a number of mentors
(04:03):
in the field who do this sort ofwork and, really learn from
their experiences and, and whatI kept.
Coming across story after storywere, physicians who had spent
years in academic medicine andinstitutional medicine, right?
That eventually, for lack of abetter phrase, became fed up
with the system, right, and, andwent out on their own.
And they pretty much universallydescribed higher rates of
(04:23):
satisfaction, better control oftheir schedules.
Better reimbursement ratesacross the board and just
overall greater satisfactionwith their life and work.
So it became, pretty clear andconvincing to me as I gathered
the evidence, right.
And, not having that experience,but seeing this path that, that
so many people had had worndown.
And realizing that, that therewas a way that I could start
this off right away.
So I talked to a few differentpeople.
(04:45):
I, I did talk to hospitalsystems, in the area just to
gather their input and kind ofpitched my vision for sports
psychiatry and, and how thiscould all work.
And, and it really did not seemto align right with the
structures that were in place.
So it became pretty clear to meas I moved through that process
that in order to practice in away that made sense to me, in a
way, allowed me to, really enactmy vision for what I wanted to
(05:06):
do with my career and my life.
That, that private practice anddirect specialty care of is the
way to go.
Dr. Maryal Concepcion (05:12):
I love it and I think it's.
Even more relatable these daysto so many residents who are
asking similar questions nomatter what their specialty is.
So I wanna ask there, because asyou talked with people, and as
you just realize this is the,the way for me forward is going
to be in private practice, inorder for me to have the time I
need to practice my specialty tothe level that I'm trained to
(05:32):
and want to I'm wondering abouthow you went intentionally
building a practice to meetthese levels of, autonomy and
satisfaction with practice andreally, really getting to the
avatar, the ideal patient who,is very, very much in sports as
well as, their mental health.
(05:52):
And so if you could tell usabout how you intentionally
built your practice, I thinkthat would be really helpful for
the audience as well.
Dr. Jimmy Moley (06:00):
Definitely I, yeah, I started to recognize
some needs that, that athletesin particular had in the mental
health space.
So, one of the first andforemost is confidentiality and
privacy, right?
In an athlete's world, there area number of different
stakeholders in their wellbeingand their performance and
everything like that, right?
So privacy and trust comesfirst.
I talked to a number ofphysicians who, had bad
(06:20):
experiences where it's, it'ssometimes hard to say, that you
can establish trust when theteam, the organization, the
hospital, signed your checks.
Right.
So it's really, it was kind of,that was the original idea of,
of maintaining that independencein order to best serve the
people that I'm treating.
So that was a big factor.
I also think that the way mentalhealthcare is set up in many
instances, in, in large academicsettings in particular, is
(06:42):
focused on efficiency, right?
Is focused on productionmetrics, RVU targets, and, all
of those sorts of things,billing metrics.
So, from that standpoint, theway appointment slots are
designed, the way schedules arebuilt, the way decision trees
are built right, is not reallyplacing the emphasis on the care
and the patient themselves.
So that's really the way Iwanted to design things.
I wanted to be able to set myown schedule to allow for more
(07:03):
of a, a higher level of care,more holistic level of care.
Right, that I feel like mentalhealth care often demands,
right?
That if we have 15 minutes to,do a medication check, it
doesn't address sleep, exercise,diet, social health, and all of
these factors that have beenshown repeatedly in the
literature to play just as muchof a role in mental health care
outcomes, as do medications.
(07:24):
So I really felt, to, toethically practice the way that
I wanted to, to address all ofthose, determinants of health
that this was, again, the rightchoice for me.
Dr. Maryal Concepcion (07:32):
If you are not yet in direct specialty
care or direct primary care andyou are tasting that vomit in
your mouth when Dr.
Malises our views, that is real.
So now I would love if youcould.
Explain to the audience similarto you, to when you meet,
especially another primary caredoctor who's looking into
potentially referring patientsto your practice, how do you
(07:54):
explain your practice?
Because you're in two differentstates and you also in, you also
offer visits in person as wellas virtual.
So, if, if a primary care doctorwould were to come and say, Hey,
Dr.
Moley, I found your informationonline.
Tell me more about yourpractice.
What would you tell them todescribe what you do?
Dr. Jimmy Moley (08:11):
So I, I start off by emphasizing the
accessibility of the practice.
So I keep my practiceintentionally small, and I do
that in order to maintain,access to, to early
appointments.
So my, my, unofficial kind ofclaim is that I see all new
patients within one week.
Right Now when you compare orcontrast that to other health
systems in the area, we'retalking probably two to three
months on average, right?
(08:32):
So that's a big difference.
And, and oftentimes when peoplein the area need mental health
care, they, they can't afford towait two to three months, right?
That, that oftentimes is thedifference between maybe needing
a higher level of care or beingable to manage a problem on the
outpatient basis, which now whenwe're weighing cost benefit,
starts to change the equation.
Right.
So I talk about accessibility.
I talk about ways that, thatpatients are able to get ahold
(08:52):
of me while maintainingappropriate boundaries, within a
healthcare setting.
But I do feel like I am probablymore accessible, right, than a
lot of other physicians.
So patients are able to messageme directly through the
electronic health record.
There's no filters, right?
That I'm able to, to stayflexible with treatment plans to
adjust on the fly, which again,in mental health care, right?
We, we don't have often ways topredict how individuals will
(09:13):
respond to medications.
So that flexibility, I think, isreally key.
And then really emphasizing, toa primary care doctor or anyone
else who's referring, Hey, the,a lot of these issues that you
know.
Present, typically to apsychiatrist, are very
multifaceted, right?
So if you're treating, a patientfor high blood pressure, that
also happens to have anxiety,right?
Those things we know are, arevery closely intertwined.
Mm-hmm.
(09:34):
So, I think that that my work,hopefully with the goal right,
is to address multiple differenthealth outcomes to address, the
wellbeing of the person as awhole.
And the idea that, we're notjust reducing the frequency or
intensity of panic attacks,we're treating the whole person,
we're trying to optimize theirwellness.
And as we move forward, from anillness model to a wellness
model, then our goals willchange.
(09:54):
And, and this is a holisticexperience.
So that, that's kind of thepitch, and that I believe that,
really, when a patient, when wedecide to agree, enter into an
treatment agreement that we'rereally agreeing to, to really
work on all aspects of theirlife together.
Dr. Maryal Concepcion (10:08):
Yeah.
That's awesome.
And I'm wondering in terms of,as your practice has grown
because you opened in 2024 and.
You are treating people 15 andup.
I'm wondering who were theinitial patients that came to
your practice?
Were they patients of DPCdoctors or were they patients
who knew you?
(10:29):
I would love to hear who foundyour practice first.
Dr. Jimmy Moley (10:33):
Sure.
So my initial very small cohortwere, were, were patients that
followed me from residentclinics.
So I moved cities right fromColumbus to Cleveland, but there
were a number of patients whowere able to follow me.
So that, that was nice and, andable to, to get things off the
ground that way.
I would say the bulk of myinitial referrals though, did
come from DPC docs or, orprivate healthcare docs.
And I think that was a trendthat that has continued.
(10:53):
I mean, it has expanded rightover time, but I think,
understanding the modelfamiliarity, right?
And that goes for both theprovider and the patient, right,
was critical.
It's just more of a seamlessintegration.
So I think that that was theinitial.
And then I think also, word ofmouth between patients, and I
often say that's probably myfavorite type of referral,
right?
Because it means that thatpatients are engaged and
patients feel that they'rereceiving good, good treatment.
(11:15):
So when a patient's able to talkand share and, and kind of build
those networks, it kind oforganically grows over time.
Dr. Maryal Concepcion (11:22):
Awesome.
And so echoed by the many guestswho've shared that on this
podcast where, the word of mouthis so much more powerful than a
print ad, a billboard, superBowl ad.
I'm getting into sarcasm again,but when it comes to the
patients who I, I think about asa primary care doctor, there
will be something that I ampicking up in a patient where
(11:45):
psychiatry referral isdefinitely warranted.
And I'm wondering, when ageneral psychiatry referral is
on the table versus somebody whois specifically looking for
sports, psychiatry and or CBT asa, an option with their
psychiatrist, how do you select,from anybody who has a, a
(12:07):
general referral to one that'smore specific?
How do you.
How do you look at that pool ofpatients to say, this is a
great, this person's going to bea great fit for my practice.
Dr. Jimmy Moley (12:19):
Right.
So I do advertise, like yousaid, adult and sports
psychiatry and, and there is avery wide variety of patients
that I see, right?
So it's not just athletes.
Athletes make probably anywherefrom 25 to 50% of the practice
at any given time.
So part of, I think my practiceis, I, I do have an initial
assessment that I meet with thepatient.
We go through, we outlinetreatment planning, but at the
end of that assessment we dodecide is this the best fit,
(12:41):
right?
And that goes for myself and thepatient.
So we both have to agree toenter into that contract.
So I think that's one thing.
And then, I, very clearly statethat if, if either one of us
doesn't feel it's totally fineto move on and I want them to
get the best resource that theypossibly can.
So I'd say the patients that,that tend to work well within
this model and, and have thebest outcomes are, are ones that
are, are highly motivated.
Right.
(13:01):
This is something where we are,working outside the system,
right?
It is, like you said, a directpay cash model and not shy about
that.
That is part of the part of thedeal.
So I think it's patients who arehighly motivated, who are really
willing to invest in theirmental health and, and put in
the work, right?
It's, it's a little bit more ofan active process, but I think
that that activity and that thatdemand on that side also
generates better outcomes overtime.
Dr. Maryal Concepcion (13:21):
I love that, and I think it's, as you
drew, commonalities betweenspecialty and primary care.
Previously, I think that that issomething that I see much more
commonly in our practice as aprimary care practice, is that
the people who understand thatthey're investing in paying for
their doctor and access to theirdoctor are much more invested
and motivated to, follow throughwith treatment plans, et cetera.
(13:45):
Not everybody, but I definitelywould say it's, it's more
common.
So That's awesome.
And in terms of you gettingtraining to do CBT, so cognitive
behavioral therapy for thosepeople unsure of CBT as an
acronym, I'm wondering when did,did, was that something that you
were able to get certificationin while in residency or was
(14:05):
that something that you didafter you had opened your
practice?
Dr. Jimmy Moley (14:09):
It's a good question.
So it is something that I did doduring residency, and every
residency program in psychiatryis slightly different, right?
I, I'd say every program hassome component of therapy
training some much more thanothers, and, and sometimes in
different types of therapy.
So Ohio State was able to offer,training in both CPT and
psychodynamic therapy, and I, itdepends on your level of
interest, how much they'llengage and kind of provide
(14:30):
supervision, training,certification, that sort of
thing.
So I was somebody who took verywell to it.
I, I found it very interestingand found that it complimented
my work well for patients whowanted to pursue that path.
Some of my, probably morerewarding cases are ones where
we can engage in both medicationmanagement and psychotherapy.
I feel like that eliminates somebarriers, right?
In terms of, of differentproviders and communication and,
(14:51):
and really trust levels, right?
There's so much interactionthere.
So I enjoy it as a big part ofmy work.
I think that it informs a lotof, a lot of what I do, and I
feel I, I feel very wellprepared as a result of my
residency training.
Dr. Maryal Concepci (15:01):
Absolutely.
And I think that that is sopowerful to be, talking about
different modalities oftreatment, all, all from one
physician.
As a general practitionermyself, I am like all for how
many tools can we have in thetool belt?
So that is awesome.
And I'm wondering, when it comesto specifically the sports
psychiatry patients, can youtalk to us about you, you
(15:22):
mentioned it a little bit, butin terms of the specific health
needs that you see with athletesin particular talk to us about
what types of things you see inathletes especially.
I, I would say the more commonthings that you would see in
athletes, but also the thingsthat are more unique to athletes
that people might notnecessarily pick up on with a
(15:44):
typical, well child check form.
Sure,
Dr. Jimmy Moley (15:47):
sure.
Well, one thing is that we knowthat certain, very common quote
unquote, bread and butter mentalillness is more common in
athletes, right?
So, for instance, athletes havea significantly higher rate of
PTSD, right?
Than the general population.
Certain forms of anxiety,depression, right?
All of these things we know kindof can play in at higher rates,
substance abuse eating disordersright across the board.
(16:07):
So that, that's kind of one sideof things that we know that
maybe each of those illnessestakes on a different flavor with
an athlete, or is specificallyinformed by aspects of their,
their work and their profession.
The other aspect is more of theperformance optimization space
and unique aspects to being anathlete, right?
So we're learning, I think moreand more how we can channel,
especially therapy techniques toreally enhance performance and
(16:29):
really kind of, regulate ournervous system and really do
things to enhance, heart ratevariability, all, all these kind
of biometric impacts that, thatwe have on performance.
So that's one piece.
And then there's also, verycommon issues I deal with a lot
post-injury.
Kind of situations where we kindof treat as more of a grief
process.
Working through that.
I see a lot of athletespost-retirement is another big,
(16:50):
you know, a lot of suddenchanges, right?
With an athlete that really pullinto question elements of
identity, purpose and, andthings like that.
So, there are certain elementsthat are very unique to athletes
and like I said, even amongstthe common, mental health
issues, there's certain thingsthat are about those illnesses
that we have to treat andapproach slightly differently.
Dr. Maryal Concepcion (17:06):
I love this.
And the, the generalist in me isgeeking out because, I, I wanna
ask here, when you are able todo CBT, when you are able to do
medication management, when youare able to be accessible by
your patients and you are ableto talk about things like
holistic care, lifestylemedicine, impacting a person's
health, I'm wondering, when youthink of a treatment plan for
(17:27):
somebody, say just making up acase here a 22-year-old who is
was dealing with a sports injuryand you know, they're wanting to
return to play at a highcollegiate level what would a
typical treatment plan be?
I mean, clearly you can'tgeneralize anyone's care.
But in terms of like how youwould weave in.
(17:49):
Potentially CBT and medicationmanagement and lifestyle
medicine, because I think thisis fascinating.
As a primary care doctor, we dothis stuff all the time,
depending on, we make arecommendation, the patient
tries something, we adjust.
And I can see it being verysimilar, but I'm wondering,
especially because you are aspecialist in psychiatry, how
you weave all of those thingstogether.
And I hope that this is helpfulfor people who are like, oh my
(18:11):
gosh, I could totally send apatient to Dr.
Moley after listening to him.
Dr. Jimmy Moley (18:15):
Right, right.
That's the challenge, right?
Is how do we, how do we addressevery issue that the athlete
faces?
So I, I think therapy isprobably more of a universal
recommendation at this point,right?
That if you're coming to meafter a dramatic change or a
sudden change, that we need tobe able to talk about that,
explore things and work onthings.
Right Now, if you're at a pointwhere you're not able to, to
enter into that space because ofthe mental challenges, then
(18:36):
maybe that's where medicationsteps in.
Right.
I oftentimes describe,medications as being able to, to
raise the floor of the mentalillness, to allow you to engage
in the work that will allow youto actually recover and start to
feel better.
So that, that oftentimes is thediscussion around medicine.
Now, oftentimes, like you said,it is kind of that generalist
role in the space.
Like sometimes the medication,for the NCAA might require a, a
(18:57):
therapeutic use exemption,right?
So there's, there's paperwork onthat end.
There's consultations with thecoaches, the other docs, the
trainers everything kind ofmultiple pieces here, trying to,
to weave in and, and kind ofpaint the full picture.
So, ongoing therapy, medicationswhen needed, and collaboration
with school teams, parents, allof the stakeholders really is,
is kind of the fundamentalmodel.
(19:18):
And then, like you said, asthings start to improve and as
we're able to optimize, we're,we're weaving in lifestyle
factors, we're talking aboutsleep, diet, physical
conditioning, right?
And how we can enhance themedication and the therapy side
with everything else altogether.
That's
Dr. Maryal Concepcion (19:32):
so cool.
And I, I just think that,especially with.
I was talking to some moms inthe OC about this when we had
our California DPC summit just acouple weeks ago.
And like we were talking aboutthe, the level of competition
that happens between families,especially in high school
sports.
And so, and my boys are, I haveone still in pull-ups and so,
(19:54):
it's, I'm not there yet, but I Ithink that this is, it's so
fascinating for people to hearthat.
Sports psychiatry is a thing andyou are delivering that and you
do it even virtually as well asin person.
So I wanna ask here, especiallyas you talked about, you know
how because this is, this iswhat we do as direct specialty
and direct primary care doctorswho are in the cash pay model.
(20:16):
You get paid to just be adoctor.
And as you like, that includestalking to, potentially other
doctors on the persons and theathletes team or or healthcare
team or their trainer orwhatnot.
And so I'm wondering, as you'vetalked with people for your
patients, have you alsonetworked with people, gym
owners or sports teams?
(20:37):
And how have you gone about thatto you just, just share about
one sports psychiatry is athing.
Mental health and athletes is athing.
And also that you are open forbusiness in, in case athletes
were to need your services.
Dr. Jimmy Moley (20:51):
Right, right.
And, and that is a big part ofwhat I do is network, especially
in maybe the morenon-traditional areas, right?
I, I've talked to countless gymowners, trainers, physical
therapists, right?
And really trying to enter intothe space because those are the
people that are seeing athleteson a daily basis.
I.
Right.
Oftentimes that relationship is,is a very intimate, trusting
relationship, right?
Akin to maybe something like atherapist, right?
(21:12):
So they're, they're boots on theground seeing athletes every
day.
So talking to them too aboutmaybe types of patients that I
see, right?
Types of things that I can helpwith and kind of painting.
I think real life examples isprobably the biggest thing that
I can do.
So if I can talk, generallyabout performance anxiety or, or
give a presentation about what aDHD in a college athlete might
look like, right?
And, and how we treat that.
(21:32):
I think those are prettypowerful examples.
And then, and when I'm makespeaking those messages, then
it's like, oh yeah, I know soand so that, that might be
struggling with that.
Right?
And might be able to refer them.
So I do a fair amount ofeducational presentations, so
that's to, to gyms, high schoolstraining groups around the area
where I'm at in Cleveland.
The other, there's quite a fewgyms and, and kinda, there's a
big culture around athletics inthe area.
So, that's been nice to reallytap into that, that group.
(21:55):
And what I'm finding too is thatthere, there is a, a tremendous
need and an eagerness really totalk about the mental health
side.
That's one thing I wasn't quitesure on going in, but I think
people recognize more and morethat a lot of times this is what
holds back injury recovery orperformance optimization.
Right.
So it's really pairing theresources with the tremendous
need that exists in thecommunity.
Dr. Maryal Concepcion (22:14):
I wonder, I if you can also point out some
trends that you've seen to helpsupport that more, more general
acceptance of and wanting tolearn about mental health when
it comes to athletes inparticular.
Dr. Jimmy Moley (22:25):
Right.
I mean, stigma's been around aslong as mental health care
treatment has existed, right?
And we've come a long way, andI, I think partly, and due to
examples of athletes speakingforward, I, I think the message
becomes so much more powerfulwhen you're able to see other
people that have gone throughsimilar experiences share their
story, right?
So if I can, weave in peoplethat I know, or trainers or
other professionals in the areawho have, who've been through
(22:47):
this, right?
And I mean, I, I played sports,but also, like I, I'm in a
different role, right?
Than those people.
So I think weaving in thoseexamples is very powerful and,
and just really starting theconversation being, making it
known that, that I am availableand here are the services,
right?
Can't tell you how many timesI've, I've given presentations
and, and athletes or formerathletes say, oh man, when I was
in college, I wish I knew thatthis kind of thing existed,
(23:08):
right?
So that, that's half the battleis really making it known that,
that I'm out here, that here'sthe services that I can offer
and here's how I might be ableto help.
Dr. Maryal Concepcion (23:16):
Very cool.
And when you talk about,particular presentations that
are really, really attractiveand desired by different groups
what are some of the most, whatare like even the titles or the
topics of the the most popularones that you tend to talk about
or tend to be asked to talkabout?
Dr. Jimmy Moley (23:32):
I would say probably performance anxiety is
probably right at the top.
I would say A DHD is anothervery common topic, right.
And I, I would say, honestly,some things that, that maybe
don't get discussed as much inpopular culture eating disorders
certainly one and then PTSD.
And, and recognizing the signsand, and saying, Hey, it may
something you may have gonethrough years ago maybe still
affects your athleticperformance.
(23:53):
Right?
Or maybe the pressures thatyou're feeling to, to make a
certain weight right in aparticular sport or, or, enhance
some sort of aspect of yourphysical performance is leading
you to maybe, abnormal eatingpatterns or, or patterns that
aren't healthy of intake andoutput.
So asking the right questions,giving examples, and then
highlighting issues that, that Ihear, all the time from athletes
I think has been the best, besttactic.
Dr. Maryal Concepcion (24:15):
Yeah, I think it's so cool.
And, I think about corporationswhen education type stuff
happens and it's not typicallythat the corporation is having a
doctor talk to the community.
It's usually like thecorporation will sponsor the
bags that like carry the swagand stuff.
And so I think that, how, howdifferent, even just from the,
(24:38):
not just the perception, but theexperience of you and your.
Your expertise to be hearing adoctor talk about these things
that people are wanting to knowmore about.
And just even hearing oneacknowledgement, again, like I
just, I keep leaning on thatthat International Society for
Sports Psychiatry exists, butalso that, I'm sure by just
(25:00):
giving these talks and hearingthese talks, people are
empowered to even know, like howto screen differently or how to,
keep their spidey senses up forlike, this is something I am
concerned about in my athlete.
And so just the education I'msure does so much in terms of
even just planting the seed forpeople who are like, oh, like
you mentioned, the, the personwho's like in, in college.
(25:22):
I wish I would've known thatsomething like this existed.
I, I, I am so, I am just, Ithink about all of the people
who are gonna have futureathletes or the ones who have
athletes and their thinkingabout.
One of your talks.
Now.
I just think that this is, thisis really getting to the heart
of, you have on your, yourwebsite your mission, vision,
and values, but it's it's reallygetting to the heart of making
(25:44):
care transparent and accessibleand affordable.
So I love this.
Now, when we talk aboutaffordability, I I would love if
you could talk to us about howyou went from residency to
opening up your practice withpricing, because this, I think,
is a very big challenge and avery big place of questioning
from specialists in particularof different fields.
(26:05):
It could be outpatient, it couldbe inpatient, like surgery.
It could be.
Somebody who's just not used tothe idea of, could I have a
membership, like in primarycare, we're different beasts
because we see people for 80 to90% of things that they're
concerned about.
But when you developed yourpricing I wanna, I, I would love
if you can share with us likehow you valued your services so
(26:27):
that there, it's not like thequote unquote cheap bottle of
wine, but it's also not, out ofthe way to, to make it for only
people have seven figuresalaries.
Because when you're talkingabout you, your promise to
people is pre, pretty much,you'll see them in a week.
I mean, and then you, you madethe comment about two to three
months.
I'm like non Calvers County.
Like you want psychiatry.
It's way more than two to threemonths to see somebody.
(26:49):
And so, I think about, time andexpertise is one thing, but also
that accessibility is so hard toprice,
Dr. Jimmy Moley (26:56):
right, right.
No, it's a challenge.
It's a challenge for sure.
What I, what I did first andforemost was kind of survey
other psychiatrists in the area,so I know both nationally and
locally, what are, what do pricepoints look like you said, with
intention that, that I do, feelconfident in the services that I
provide that access is worthsomething, right?
That, that, being outside of thesystem and the level of privacy,
confidentiality, appointmentlength times, right?
(27:17):
Those are all unique and I thinkthey have to be priced as such,
like you said, otherwise itloses some of the value.
And to be honest, like I, I havea lot of conversations and, and
a lot of conversations end whenI start to talk about price, to
be honest.
And I think over time you growcomfortable with those kind of
conversations.
Knowing that this isn't theright product for everybody, but
for people who it is the rightproduct for, it's a tremendous
(27:38):
service, and I think the pricereflects that.
And you know it, over time,those conversations, like I
said, just become morecomfortable.
You become more confident in, inthe model that you're delivering
and you stay flexible too on thefly.
I mean, that things can changeover time, but, but responding
to how patients react, I thinkis important.
Dr. Maryal Concepcion (27:54):
Talk to us about how you looked at your
services when it comes tomembership versus one-off
services.
Dr. Jimmy Moley (28:00):
Right.
I, what's a little bit uniqueabout mental health too, is, is
the idea of boundaries, right?
And, and, and healthy care.
So if we're looking at, asituation with a membership and,
and kind of unlimited visits, I,I do think that presents
somewhat of a differentchallenge in the mental
healthcare field.
Right.
Typically when, when we work onan issue we're addressing kind
of, whether it's depression oranxiety or things like that.
There's, there is more of acadence right, to the
(28:22):
appointments.
I also, ideally we're going tomove to a point, with kind of
specialist care where there's achance you might be able to just
go back to your PCP, right?
There's a chance that this ismore of a one-off consultation
or ideally we get to the pointof remission where I only have
to see you maybe once every sixmonths.
At that, that point, amembership fee doesn't make
sense financially for myself orfor the patient.
So I think this, the structuremakes sense more for me right
(28:43):
now.
And that's not to say it mightchange in the future or for each
individual patient, but I thinkthe goals of special direct
specialty care are maybeslightly different in the issues
that we see and that theoutcomes that we're working
towards.
Dr. Maryal Concepcion (28:55):
Totally.
And that said, I'm wondering doyou have strategy as to how many
patients you want to take onyour panel to be, quote unquote
full?
Whether that person is in amembership base, whether that
person's just having a one,one-off service.
I'm wondering, because this issomething that other specialists
have asked about, like how doyou, if you don't have
(29:16):
exclusively memberships, how doyou, look at your your
forecasting of what your clinicis actually making if your, if
your balance is swaying betweenmemberships and one-off
services.
Dr. Jimmy Moley (29:30):
Right.
I, I think one of the importantthings is, is to really collect
data and try to track thingsover time.
So from the beginning I've beenable to, to really kind of track
all that data, look at wherereferral sources are coming
from, look how long patientsstay, what types of appointment
slots that are filling up themost frequently, right?
So that's allowed me to, Ithink, to get an idea in it and
kind of build some models maybethat predict and project future
growth.
(29:50):
So that's important.
There's always going to be anelement of unpredictability, and
I think that has to be just bebuilt in, and I think it's just
part of the process, right?
That, that some patients aregoing to drop off, move away, do
whatever.
And that, that has to befactored in.
So I think I mean it, that'spart of the nature of it, that
it is probably a little bit moreunpredictable.
But I think, with the, as thingscontinue to grow, I, I, I've
gone more based on feel here interms of, when I'm quote unquote
(30:13):
full.
Like I do keep slots open everyday for urgent or emergent
appointments, right?
So that, that's something Iwanna maintain.
I wanna maintain that one week,roughly timeframe to get new
patients in.
So kind of working within thoseframeworks, kind of feeling what
feels right to me in terms of mybandwidth and, and my ability to
take on work, I think makes themost sense where I can still
deliver that high level care tothe most amount of people
(30:34):
possible.
Dr. Maryal Concepcion (30:35):
I love that.
And when we talk aboutunpredictability, I'm wondering
if you can share with us anyunpredictable moments you've
experienced as an entrepreneurbecause you opened out a
residency and you're just likeme in terms of we don't have
MBAs and yet we're stillphysician entrepreneurs.
Dr. Jimmy Moley (30:51):
Right.
I mean, you could argue thewhole thing's been
unpredictable, right?
That there's no playbooknecessarily going into this kind
of thing.
But, I, I would say, I meanreferral, influx is, is all over
the place.
There's weeks I go where I get,10, 20 referrals.
There's also weeks where I getone or two, right?
So I think that I've kind oflearned at least so far that,
that I kind of have to ride thewave right of that and, and
learn to balance that witheverything.
And, and you never unexpectedthings happen all the time with
(31:12):
patient care.
Like I said, patients move away,things change, financial things
change.
And I just think you, there's acertain amount that I've had to
grow comfortable with that, thatunpredictability.
And I think if there's a, atendency, I think to maybe get a
little bit caught up into that,to maybe personalize that in a
way, say, what did I do wrong?
Or, tend to, to kind of takethat on myself.
But I think as you, as you seethe trends play out and, and
(31:33):
kinda look at things more overtime, it, it becomes clear that
that's just part of the natureof the industry.
Dr. Maryal Concepcion (31:37):
I do feel that, as physicians especially
when there's a lot of, we gointo this to take care of other
people that, that, that can,that internalization of oh, is
the business reflecting me as aperson is, is very common,
especially in the first, likethe opening months of a DPC
practice.
And I'm wondering for thosepeople who find that.
(32:00):
Description of, some weeks youhave fewer referrals than
others.
Really the, the listeners outthere who can really relate to
that in terms of, especiallythose people who are opening and
they, they might be writing thiswave of yes, I had one phone
call this week and last week Ihad a different number.
What words would you say to thatentrepreneur, that physician,
(32:20):
entrepreneur in particular?
To encourage them to, recognizetheir strengths, recognize where
they can improve on, and to keeppressing on.
Dr. Jimmy Moley (32:30):
I would say that, what worked for me
personally was seeing that as anopportunity to do other things
to enhance the practice.
So on slower weeks, that maybemeant more networking meetings,
right?
That meant more face-to-face,kind of going out, doing events,
trying to meet with, therapists,other physicians in the area.
I was able recently actually to,to launch a newsletter right
through the practice or do moreadvertising or work on the
website.
Right?
There's always things I feellike that I could be doing to,
(32:52):
to help build the practice.
And to me, if, if the patientvolume isn't there, then I'm
still adding value.
With my time because I, I found,with anything, like anything
else, like in life, like themore effort that I put in,
right, the better outcomes thatI'm going to see.
And, and this is hard work to behonest, I mean, I, I've had a
number of residents reach outand, and ask about it.
And, it, it seems like, oh,you're like, you get to make
your own rules and set your ownschedule.
(33:12):
It's well, yeah, but it's alsolike a ton of work on the back
end, and it's a lot of work tonetwork and, and push forward
the business.
So it's not necessarily a pathfor everybody, but I think, if
you have that drive and if youhave that kind of vision of
being an entrepreneur and youwanna pair that with some, care
that you feel comfortable withand care that you wanna deliver,
then I think the, the time fillsitself because there's always
moving pieces, there's alwaysthings to be done to, to push
(33:33):
forward.
Dr. Maryal Concepcion (33:35):
Awesome.
And as you mentioned newsletter,I'm wondering if you can tell us
about what are you putting tocraft your newsletter?
And do you have a newsletterspecifically for your patients,
or do you have a couple ofnewsletters?
One for people who might beinterested in sending you
potential patients in the futureas well as your current
patients.
Dr. Jimmy Moley (33:53):
So I have one newsletter.
It's you can subscribe throughthe website and it's a, a really
a method for me to just kind ofcommunicate a few different
ideas.
So I, I do create a sectionevery time to talk about, kind
of more recent literature, anykind of recent updates in
psychiatry, new technology, newarticles, things that are out
there in the media, right?
That, that people might runinto.
I do provide, a section for tipsor kind of things that are more
(34:14):
relevant maybe to this, this dayand age, right?
So for, for example, I did forJune, like ways to connect with
nature, right?
As the weather gets a little bitwarmer around here, ways to kind
of get out and incorporate that,into your mental health routine,
right?
And I, I really want to kindause it as a space to create
dialogue.
I actually have a number ofpatients always that, that
respond and it startsconversations, right?
It's just ways to, to thinkabout mental health, to promote
(34:35):
my work, and to just really,kind of create more of those
touchpoints, both with currentpatients and with, other docs,
prospective patients and thatsort of thing.
Dr. Maryal Concepcion (34:43):
Love it.
And in terms of your.
You're going forward.
I would love if you could talkto us about what do you see for
the future of your practice inthe next three to five years?
Do you see yourself having morestates where you're licensed in
doing telemedicine?
Do you see yourself addinganother doctor to your practice?
Especially just given that yourpractice like especially even by
(35:07):
your website the, the, the, thetitle, and I don't know if this
is your actual business or ifit's a DBA, but Jimmy Moley, MD
Adult and Sports Psychiatry isyour tagline on your website.
So I'm wondering, in terms ofgrowth do you see other doctors
working under your name?
Do you see evolving the brand?
Where do you see your practicein the next three to five years?
Dr. Jimmy Moley (35:29):
Yeah, that's the exciting part, right?
I, I've thought more and moreabout that as, as we approach
the one year mark, and I dothink expansion is probably in
the cards.
That's probably the next movethat I look to make.
The brand probably at that pointexpands beyond using my name as
the business name.
But I think, for right now, Ithink this makes sense for where
I'm at as I continue to grow.
And, and like you said, maybe inthe next one to three years, I,
I definitely look at thatbecause I feel like the model I
(35:51):
deliver makes sense.
And I, I do, I like theflexibility.
I've, I've always been somebodywho enjoyed variety in my
schedule and time.
And maybe clinical care fivedays a week full-time isn't,
isn't the best path for me,right?
So if we devote time to thebusiness and networking and
things that I've come to reallyenjoy, I balance that, with the
clinical care, schedule and alsokind of helping, expand the
reach and do educational work.
(36:12):
So I think that's the plan rightnow looking to, to maybe expand
here in the short order but alsojust continue to, to grow and
learn.
I mean, it, the progress I'vemade over one year has been,
remarkable.
I've learned so much.
So I'm sure that will justcontinue to develop naturally as
things go forward.
Dr. Maryal Concepcion (36:26):
I love it.
And as you talk about, spreadingthe word about what you're doing
and also how you mentioned evenresidents are asking you about,
oh, learning more about yourpractice and how you're
delivering.
I'm wondering if you can speakto the, because I would imagine,
and I think you mentioned thisin Ohio, that just the, the
world of international society,the, the world of people who are
(36:47):
focusing on sports, psychiatryis growing.
Mm-hmm.
And there needs to be morepeople.
But in terms of you speaking toyour colleagues, specifically in
sports psychiatry with howyou're doing things as a direct
model, do you see do you seelarger universities,
corporations trying to, puttheir own flavor to support
psychiatry?
(37:07):
Or do you see pretty much all ofyour colleagues just going
direct because of the time youneed and the, the, the level of
which you're working withathletes in particular?
Dr. Jimmy Moley (37:19):
It is an interesting mix and it's
interesting both within the USand internationally.
I would say the percentage ofprivate docs is probably higher
than most other groups, right.
Just because of the nature of itand like we've talked about.
So I think that's one thing.
It does sometimes work wellwithin academic setting.
There's a number of places inthe US that, that do a really
good job of sports, psychiatry,have, curriculums and built,
(37:39):
things built into the residencyprogram.
So that is definitely apossibility and I think we'll
continue to grow.
But I also think that there is,probably they have an earlier
jump and probably will continueto drive more in the private
space just because of the natureof the business.
Dr. Maryal Concepcion (37:51):
Yeah, I, none of that surprises me,
especially as you said, thenature of the business.
And I'm wondering, especiallyfor those physicians out there
who are in medical school or inresidency for, I'll restate
that.
For those who are physicians orfuture physicians in medical
school residency, I'm wonderingas you spoke with people, as you
(38:11):
made your decision to open aprivate practice, I'm wondering
just in terms of rotationsthings to look out for when
you're pairing mental healthwith sports in particular, what
things do you, recommend peopledo or get involved in so that,
so that by the time that they'reworking with athletes as a
private practitioner they, canhave more tools in their tool
(38:33):
belt.
Dr. Jimmy Moley (38:35):
I think diversity of experience is the
number one thing.
So that means spending time,with the sports medicine doc,
that means spending time, in thetraining room with physical
therapists, right?
On a primary care side, I didrotations through residency and
concussion clinics and inpediatric clinics and right
wherever.
'cause athletes are everywhere,right?
They, they seem, they seek thesame care as everyone else, so,
so that's really important.
(38:55):
I also think it's important toget exposure to private practice
in training.
It's something that I personallydidn't get much of through Ohio
State.
I had to create it on my own.
So I think that that's reallyimportant because in those
systems, it, it's, it's abubble, right?
You're, you see it, what you seeis, is what you think is the
reality.
And that's not always the casewhen you start to look at how
are actually physicianspracticing in, in my state, in
the country, in my region.
(39:17):
So expanding that vision alittle bit beyond what's
directly presented to you,diversity of experiences, and
then also getting involved withsome of these organizations.
So like the ISSP for example,involves you, they do have a
curriculum that residents can doand they will link you with a
mentor, not even necessarily inyour area.
So there are organizations outthere looking to, to promote,
raise awareness and, and educatelike you said, both physicians
(39:38):
and future physicians.
Dr. Maryal Concepcion (39:41):
That's fantastic.
And for those listening what isthe best way to find you,
especially if there's people outthere who are like, I have a
person I need to refer to.
Dr.
Moley, I.
Dr. Jimmy Moley (39:51):
Absolutely.
My website is the best way andhas the most information.
So that's jimmy moley md.com.
I'm also relatively active onInstagram, so that's at Jimmy
Moley md from the mo socialmedia side.
And you can also subscribe tothe newsletter through the
website.
Dr. Maryal Concepcion (40:04):
Awesome.
So we'll be continuing ourconversation about the ins and
outs of the business aspect ofyour practice, but on, on our
Patreon.
So, thank you so much Dr.
Moley for sharing today aboutyour specialty and how you've
taken psychiatry and blossomedit into your practice focusing
on both adult and sportspsychiatry.
Dr. Jimmy Moley (40:22):
Thank you.
Dr. Maryal Concepcion (40:27):
Thank you for listening to another episode
of my DBC story.
If you enjoyed it, please leavea five star review on your
favorite podcast platform.
It helps others find the show,have a question about direct
primary care.
Leave me a voicemail.
You might hear it answered in afuture episode.
Follow us on socials at thehandle at my D DPC story and
join DPC didactics our monthlydeep dive into your questions
(40:48):
and challenges.
Links are@mydpcstory.com forexclusive content you won't hear
anywhere else.
Join our Patreon.
Find the link in the show notesor search for my DPC story on
patreon.com for DPC news on thedaily.
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Until next week, this isMarielle conception.
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