April 18, 2025 • 49 mins
Episode 321: 2059 and the Future of Education with Micah Shippee
What if we stopped reacting to every new tech tool and started preparing with intention? In this bold conversation, I sit down with educator, futurist, and Samsung’s Director of Education Solutions, Micah Shippee, to explore his new book 2059: The Future of Education.
We dive deep into what the future could look like across AI, classroom models, access, agency, and everything in between. If you're an educator, leader, or just curious about what’s next in learning, this episode is for you.
Bonus: Grab 2059 with 20% off at Micah’s website https://micahshippee.com/
Huge thanks to our sponsors for making this episode possible:
Book Creator, Eduaide, and Yellowdig.
Timestamps
Timestamps:
00:00 – Welcome & Episode Intro
02:00 – Who is Micah Shippee? Background & Vision
03:30 – Why the year 2059? A nod to Orwell and bold futurism
05:00 – The post-scarcity scholar: most controversial prediction?
06:40 – The Fusion Model & the “Pencil Moment” in innovation
09:00 – Integration vs. Adoption: A critical distinction
10:45 – Advice for tech leaders: How to evaluate AI platforms
13:00 – What teachers still get wrong about AI
16:00 – Augmenting classroom learning with AI (not replacing it)
17:45 – 4 Future Scenarios: Which excites Micah most?
19:00 – Why bio-integration might go too far
22:00 – Teachers CANNOT be replaced – Here’s why
25:00 – Responding to AI hype: why slower is better
27:00 – Access to agency: modeling vulnerability and real learning
30:00 – Practical implementation tips for all educators
33:00 – Who struggles most with AI? (It’s not who you think)
34:30 – Micah’s 3 steps to begin your AI journey
36:30 – The WHY behind tech: Micah’s journey from classroom to Samsung
38:00 – What Micah hopes readers take away from 2059
41:30 – The 2059 vision: thinking long-term about change
44:00 – Fun wrap-up questions + 20% off the book!
💡 Let us know in the comments: What’s your biggest takeaway from 2059?
🎧 Listen on the go at https://www.myedtech.life
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Fonz Mendoza (00:30):
Hello everybody and welcome to another great
episode of my EdTech Life.
Thank you so much for joiningus on this wonderful day and,
wherever it is that you'rejoining us from around the world
, thank you, as always, for allof your support.
We appreciate all the likes,the shares, the follows.
Thank you so much for engagingwith our content, for giving us
some wonderful feedback.
Thank you so much.
(00:51):
As you know, we do what we dofor you to bring you some
amazing conversations withamazing guests, to continue to
nurture our education landscapeand just to continue to see
different perspectives anddifferent viewpoints.
And today I'm really excited towelcome back a second time
guest, and I'm really excited towelcome him back because he
does some amazing work.
(01:12):
He is a great mentor also aswell, and I always love catching
up with him.
Micah Shippey, thank you somuch for coming back to the show
.
How are you doing today?
I'm doing well, thank you.
Thanks for having me Lovecoming back to the show.
How are you doing today?
Micah Shippee (01:22):
I'm doing well, thank you.
Thanks for having me Lovecoming back to the show.
Fonz Mendoza (01:26):
Absolutely, and I love having you back, my friend,
and it's always great to catchup with you at conferences, just
kind of talk to you, get tohang out, hear the work that
you're doing, and today we'redefinitely going to be talking
about some great work that youhave just released right here
2059, future of Education.
So we'll definitely make surewe link that in the show notes.
(01:48):
But before we dive in, forthose that may not be familiar
with your work just yet, for allour new audience members, all
our new listeners, can you giveus a little brief introduction
and what your context is withinthe education space?
Micah Shippee (02:03):
For sure.
Number one my background 22years of public education,
teaching middle school as aclassroom teacher, for all 22
years serving as an ed techconsultant, helping teachers
globally in the adoption ofinnovation journey.
I definitely view it as ajourney.
My first book was WanderlustEDU.
I served as an ed tech coachfor the Google Innovator Academy
(02:28):
, a little bit with the GoogleEarth team and as a consultant
with some big tech organizationsbefore joining Samsung three
years ago as the director ofeducation solutions, where I
built out a team of world-classbest in the business education
coaches that serve schools inthe adoption process of Samsung
technology.
Fonz Mendoza (02:49):
Excellent.
Well, definitely a greatbackground and, like I said, I
know you were here also wetalked about Wunderlust a little
bit.
We definitely talked a littlebit about AI, as that was coming
out, and you're definitely abig advocate on change in
education.
And you're definitely a bigadvocate on change in education.
I know the last time you werehere, one of the most memorable
quotes also was you know we'restill.
You know, classrooms still lookthe same in rows Industrial
(03:16):
revolution type education, bellto bell, you know, and all that
good stuff.
But today I'm really excitedbecause, like I said I just
shared here, you just released abook 2059, the Future of
Education.
So I want to ask youspecifically about the book
title 2059.
Now, that's quite a specifictime frame.
It's about 35 years into, ofcourse, the future of education,
and so I want to ask you aboutthat why 2059?
(03:39):
What was going on through yourmind and your thought process,
as, of course, we know, ai, uh,generative ai coming out in 2022
and now, and what you've seenin your experience, tell us a
little bit behind about thestory behind that, sure yeah, um
.
Micah Shippee (03:54):
Well, I've always been fascinated by the work of
futurists, often in sci-fi, forentertainment or escapism, um,
but I really thought it was neatto look ahead to the future
with a hyper-focus on education,because I hadn't seen that done
.
Predicting the future, if youwill, is a challenge, and either
brave or insane.
(04:15):
I haven't decided which yet.
I picked the year 2059 becausewhen I started the book, I gave
myself the same amount of timethat George Orwell gave himself
in 1984.
And I thought, okay, thatGeorge Orwell gave himself in
1984.
And I thought, ok, if GeorgeOrwell is going to predict this
dystopian future 35 years ahead,why don't I do the same?
And so I intended to releasethe book in 2024, but missed my
(04:37):
mark by three months and,frankly, fell in love with the
title.
So I kept it.
Fonz Mendoza (04:42):
There you go.
Micah Shippee (04:43):
Excellent.
Fonz Mendoza (04:43):
Well, let's talk a little bit about that, because
I know you talked about Orwellhere and you're talking about
the future and some of thesepredictions, like you said, that
things that you see that mightbe difficult to defend later on
and I know that's something thatyou wrote because, like you
said, statistically you shouldbe about 82 years old at that
time, and so you know, hopefully, God willing, you know we're
(05:07):
going to be talking about thisand some of the things that you
might need to defend, what wouldyou say would be some of your
most controversial, I guess,takes that you feel would need
some defending in 2059?
.
Micah Shippee (05:19):
I think the most controversial, honestly, would
be things outside of education,like when they talk about the
year 2059, they break out fourmajor decades and 2059 is the
last, of course, the farthestaway, and I propose that there's
great potential that we'reheaded towards a post-scarcity
world where everyone has accessto what they need.
(05:42):
Imagine that Everyone on theplanet has access to what they
need.
Imagine that Everyone on theplanet has access to what they
need.
And the reason I think thatwill be the hardest to defend is
because there's many, manyvariables that far out that are
outside of education and wouldtherefore impact the education
outcome.
Fonz Mendoza (05:59):
Excellent.
Well, that's definitely greatand we're definitely going to
get into that a little bit more.
But one of the things that alsoyou know as going through this
and like letting you know likehow really nicely laid out this
is and it's just like some greatbits and I'm just like it's
really hard to put this down,honestly, you know, because the
more you read, the more you getinto it and then, of course, you
(06:20):
kind of bring it into your ownrelationship and into what
you're seeing.
You know in the education spacepersonally too as well, and it
resonates with that.
But I want to ask you about thefusion model for organizational
adoption of innovation.
So can you tell us a little bitabout that and how?
that model is developed and whyit's crucial for educational
(06:42):
transformation.
Micah Shippee (06:44):
Yeah, well, looking ahead at the future is
very difficult and understandingchange is well, change
management is perhaps one of themost difficult things for
organizations, not justeducation.
So I developed the fusion modelby looking at the work of
Everett Rogers, who has anorganizational adoption model,
and Engstrom, who developed theactivity theory.
(07:05):
And the activity theory saysthat at each stage of each
moment, we can look at theintersection of innovation,
people, society, our, our rules,our work, our goals.
And whenever one of thosechanges, it impacts the others.
And so I use that as a criticallens to say you know, where are
we in deciding in a journey,where we're going next and how
(07:30):
do we get to the place that Icall the pencil moment, and
that's the place of routinizing.
And so the pencil moment is themoment where we stop talking
about a technology as a thingand we focus on the practice.
So if you imagine a mathclassroom saying today we're
going to learn math with apencil, that doesn't really
happen, but I would argue whenpencils first came out, that was
(07:51):
the language.
Right, you can use yourhistorical imagination of our
teacher ancestors thinking thatway.
Well, we've gotten to the pointwhere we fully adopted.
It was part of our routine thepencil so I make the argument
that we'll get to that pointwith things like AI as well.
Now, once I finished the book, Iinstantly thought of another
analogy that I did not put inthe book, and that is what I
(08:14):
call the keyboard dilemma.
The keyboard is not the bestlayout.
It was designed so that thefingers on a typewriter don't
get jumbled up.
That's where we got the QWERTYkeyboard.
That's why the letters are soodd.
There's a much better keyboardcalled a Dvorak, and many others
that we don't use because we'reso stuck on the old model, and
(08:34):
so, rather than adopting new andbetter like our pencil moment,
we're still stuck in thekeyboard dilemma on things like
the QWERTY keyboard.
Fonz Mendoza (08:43):
All right, and so that kind of is a nice segue,
kind of talking about the pencilmoment.
But I want to talk to you aboutspecifically.
You also make a distinctionbetween integration and adoption
of technology and education.
So please can you elaborate onwhy you really focused on this
distinction and how it canchange our approach and maybe
(09:05):
reframing it when we aseducators, or maybe somebody in
a position that gets to choosewhat kind of technology is going
to be brought into theclassroom, yeah, the integration
is in the fusion model, theinitial phase of organizational
adoption.
Micah Shippee (09:22):
It's when we are seeing if something fits of
organizational adoption.
It's when we are seeing ifsomething fits.
Any innovation technology, anew practice, a new strategy
does this thing help us?
And so we integrate it intoexisting practice and we watch
and we listen and we see is thisgoing to work, before we make
that decision or not to adopt.
(09:44):
And if we decide to adopt inthe fusion model, I refer to
that as implementation.
That's where we start to godown the journey of adopting
towards that pencil moment.
And adoption is ownership ishow I think of it.
It's much more personal thanintegrating.
Fonz Mendoza (10:02):
Nice and that actually makes a lot of sense,
like you said, and especiallythat last part that you said
just making it very personal,and I think oftentimes, you know
, we confuse the two and justsay, oh, this is what we're
going to be adopting, ratherthan thinking, okay, this is
actually the integration processand working its way until you
kind of make it your own.
And right now, I mean, I wantto ask you you know, what can
(10:26):
people in a certain role orposition, for example, a
coordinator for learning or aCTO, can do with so many AI
applications out there?
I mean, they're overwhelmed.
What steps would you recommendfor them to take in order to
choose or make the best decisionfor their district?
Micah Shippee (10:46):
Well, I highly recommend forming a committee of
advisors, not just people whoagree with you, but people who,
in the field, in your community,are respected for their voice.
Not just the geeks orinnovators like you and me, but
also people who are a littleslower to adopt, a little bit
cautious, that want to thinkabout something and then, in
(11:06):
those groups, start to proposequestions like let's talk about
your personal struggle withthese innovations, how do you
feel about AI?
How are you using it now?
Are you using it more than yourealize?
And then take that personal useapproach and backpedal into do
you think it's going to becontinued to have an impact on
(11:28):
our lives?
And, if so, it's ourresponsibility to start
preparing our students for thatimpact.
And so I think there's levelsof trusted advisors, trusted
groups, self-reflection, groupreflection that can inform a
better practice which will havea positive impact on our
students.
Fonz Mendoza (11:49):
Excellent, that is a great suggestion.
And I know I've had Dr AnikaMcGee also here as well and I
know while she was working in alocal school district that was a
couple of miles away from me, Iknow when this generative AI
tools were coming out, I knowthat's one of the things that
she did was she gathered someteachers and was working with
them and, of course, they werejust kind of going through
(12:10):
everything like what are thepositives, what are the
negatives of certain platformsto be able to advise and say, ok
, these would be the best suitedfor now, at this given time,
that fit these parametersObviously, data security,
privacy and all of those things.
But I want to ask you, because Iknow you get to travel a lot,
or, you know, due to your workwith Samsung, and I know that
(12:32):
you have your ear to the groundand I know a lot of educators
come, you know, visit with you.
You get to talk to them, youget to learn a little bit about
what's going on with them.
So I want to ask you, like,right now, I know that we are
already you know well in from2022 to 2025.
You know there's a lot ofchanges in generative AI.
What do you still hear?
You know having your ear to theground at these conferences or
(12:54):
listening to the great speakers.
What are still some of thebarriers that teachers or any
educator and professional arefacing dealing with AI in
education, any educator andprofessional are facing dealing
with AI in education.
Micah Shippee (13:09):
Well, I think the number one barrier from what
I've been hearing and what I seeis understanding AI as chat GPT
and that's it.
So I'm on chat GPT andeverything I do there is AI.
Therefore, anything my studentsdo under the idea of AI is what
chat GPT does.
Therefore, anything my studentsdo under the idea of AI is what
ChachiPT does, and that'sincredibly inaccurate.
(13:30):
Ai does so many things and canamplify so many great practices
in the classroom that transcendone singular application.
I think AI is being used inmany tech industries and in
practice as a prefix, like weused to use a lowercase e for
e-paper or lowercase I in frontof a name to identify us or
(13:52):
attach us to an innovation.
I feel like AI is the newprefix that people are just
throwing around and, as aseasoned practitioner, I'm more
interested in what you do withit and how it amplifies good
practice and fits into ourexisting schema, our existing
background of what good teachinglooks like.
Fonz Mendoza (14:10):
Oh, excellent.
I really like that andespecially you meant like what
you said, putting the small I infront of something.
There's things a lot like iPads, things of that sort Sure sure.
So, yeah, that's a very wellsaid and very well put.
So thank you so much, becausethat definitely, you know,
resonates and just really bringsthat to light.
(14:30):
So I really like there what youmentioned and you know,
mentioning those barriers, likeyou said.
You know.
Therefore, you know if I'musing ChaiGPT, then this is
really all that they're doingbut, like you said you mentioned
, you know how it augments.
So, going back to that and yourclassroom experience, and
obviously now you know, throughSamsung working on a lot of
innovative projects and so on,what are some of the things that
(14:52):
you might suggest, or maybeeven hear through your book that
you suggest as far as beingable to take what we're doing
now and augmenting it andaugmenting that in the classroom
for our students, augmenting itand augmenting that in the
classroom for our students.
What might be some suggestionsthere that you might be able to
share with our teachers or whatto look out for?
You know that, instead of justseeing it as chat, gpt.
Micah Shippee (15:14):
Yeah, I think in chapter one I actually outlined
related to what we were speakingabout a few minutes ago the
fusion model and I show thestory of AI adoption in the
school and talk about initiationand implementation.
So there is a clear example ofwhat that looks like.
To help amplify or unpack someof the academic speak I
sometimes fall into, I'm doingmy best.
(15:35):
When it comes to lookingforward to the future, I think
there's a profound value inlooking back at our past, you
know, looking at the things thatwe have been unable to do in
education, and how caninnovation, how can new
technologies support it.
So, for example, I would makethe argument the number one way
(15:57):
to teach is one-on-one with anexpert and an apprentice.
It's the best way to learnsomething.
They can watch you, they cangive you guidance, they can talk
to you about it.
So your social learning is stillpart of that story.
It's missing one component, andthat's another learner that you
can collaborate with andcommiserate with, because you
(16:17):
make meaning together with apeer.
That's missing from that model,but it's still, I think, the
best model.
So if you add that otherlearner and you add that expert
or that mentor, you start to getfarther and farther away from
the mentor's one-on-one support.
And so 150 years ago, wedecided let's put 25 to 35
(16:37):
people in a room with one expert, and this will be perfect.
It'll be just like ourfactories it will use bells to
get people to go in between.
So we're pretty hung up on thatmodel.
So what I would say for thefuture is we start to look at AI
as an example, is a way toprovide one-on-one that also
gives us access to that expertwho now humanizes the learning,
(17:02):
which is a critical point I hopewe come back to.
But lets me also have my peersin the room to commiserate,
collaborate and make meaning ofthe learning.
And so now that trifecta isbeing perfected in a way that
it's never been possible.
Fonz Mendoza (17:19):
And see and that's great that you mentioned that
in the book, because I know youknow that's in chapter one Now
in chapter two, kind of likethat growing aspect, and you
outline these scenarios here ineducation, because you talked a
little bit about the 2059, whichis that hyper-connected
classroom 2029, thebio-integrated learner 2039, and
(17:47):
the community learning hub in2049, and, of course, the
post-scarcity scholar.
So I want to ask you which ofthese scenarios excites you the
most and which might cause youjust a bit of concern from all
of these four that we'vedescribed, cause you just a bit
of concern.
Micah Shippee (18:06):
You know, from all of these four that we've
described, I'm most excitedabout the community learning hub
.
I love environment and spaceand how it impacts our learning
and our thinking and how, whenwe work together to solve local
problems or generate localsolutions, we're having a clear,
tangible impact.
I love how that has potential,if we frame our mind correctly,
(18:26):
to inform global impact as well,something like looking at the
United Nations SustainableDevelopment Goals, access to
clean water locally, coming upwith a solution locally, can
inform another locale, anothercommunity.
That gets me the most excited,the one that scares me the most,
is bio-integrated, because Iview bio-integrated as
problematic for us and I'd liketo unpack that a little bit so
(18:49):
people understand what I'msaying.
If you think about today, thereare examples of people who have
a medical condition like beingquadriplegic or paralysis that
prevents them from using partsof their body, and there's been
many highlights in the media ofimplants that allows them to
play video games and tocommunicate and do things that
(19:11):
are.
It's super cool.
It gets me excited.
What doesn't get me excited iswhat comes next, because while
something serves as a medicalaid, the more that medical aid
becomes used, the more likely itwill become part of other
people's lives and that willturn into an augmentation of
(19:31):
what we can do every day.
So now you know, I have a chipin the back of my head and I
load up the history textbook andI no longer need to talk about
it and develop skills around it,because they have the quote
unquote knowledge, Because wehave to be hyper judicious about
these technologies in theclassroom.
I mean, right now we're worriedabout whether or not students
have a phone or a smartwatch.
Imagine not knowing how theyknow what they know, or where it
(19:56):
came from, or if the source isa good source.
That scares me a bit.
Fonz Mendoza (20:01):
Yeah, no, and that can definitely be something for
sure, and especially, like youmentioned, because for me, one
of my things has always been,you know, with the use of these
tools and you know, as the toolscontinue to grow and they
continue to, you know, be bettereach and every day, you know,
and each and every week there'ssomething else.
But my concern has always been,you know, sort of like what you
(20:21):
mentioned is, even now, whenteacher using this kind of
technology, the generative AIaspect, you know, teachers just
seeing that first output asbeing gospel and just saying,
yep, here we go, this is what itgave me.
Micah Shippee (20:34):
Here we go.
Fonz Mendoza (20:34):
This is what I'm going to do and really, you know
, losing out.
Like you mentioned, we stillneed to know that knowledge.
To know that knowledge, westill need to be that subject
matter expert to be able todissect, to decipher, to make
sure that this is something thatis good enough content for not
only your students, but thatwe're putting out there for them
in the education space.
(20:55):
And, like you mentioned, withsomething like that, it's like
well, you know the history book,well, whose history is it?
You know where is this comingfrom, and so, yeah, those are
the main concerns there,especially.
So I definitely agree with youon that, and but you know, we'll
see how that plays out, andhopefully you know, like I said,
what I love, though, comingback to the learning hub for me,
(21:15):
for myself, being part of, youknow, google Innovators Group
and, of course, just getting tonetwork with so many people is
just being able to bring ideastogether in that human aspect
and, like you said, being ableto solve something that can
later lead to something else,that can later lead to even a
greater project, and then, allof a sudden, that continues to
grow.
(21:36):
But it's a hub of knowledgethat is everybody put together,
you know, and just beingconnected, and it makes a huge
difference, and I think thatthat's something that would be
very beneficial, you know, aseducators, to being able to find
that hub, or being able to findthose people that you can
connect with, to continue togrow and grow in practice as
well.
Which brings me to that nextpiece.
(21:57):
You know, that human elementpiece, which I do want to talk
to you about because, you know,here you also mentioned out
talking to teachers, lettingthem know it says you cannot be
replaced, you know.
So I want to ask you here youknow what prompted you to really
go in deep with them?
Because I know you mentioned anecological concept with this
(22:20):
that is tied together.
So tell me a little bit moreabout that, because I know that
there are a lot of people outthere that always say, well, no,
teachers will never be replaced, but there's other people
that'll say, yeah, you know AI,I mean eventually that's what
it's going to come to you knowit's going to replace the
teacher.
Why would we need classrooms?
So tell me a little bit aboutthat and that importance of that
(22:40):
human element.
Micah Shippee (22:43):
Yeah, and in fact just last week Bill Gates said
that Doctors and teachers willbe replaced.
That scares me because as aclassroom teacher, I understand
that human empathy and unpackingthe human experience as messy
as that unpacking is is criticalto student learning because
it's a form of modeling, anagency that they can't otherwise
(23:05):
get from a non-human interface,or shouldn't, I should say, get
from a non-human interface.
You know, I talked aboutTrophic Cassie in the book and
the story of the wolves inYellowstone and how rivers
changed direction as the wolvesbecame extinct.
And as the wolves were broughtback in, the river's courses got
more steadfast.
(23:26):
And it's because, you know,without the wolves you have more
deer.
When you have more deer,they're eating more shrubbery on
the side of rivers, which iscausing the banks to get looser,
which is causing the rivers tochange everything.
And when you start toreintroduce the deer, the
ecosystem is in a state ofbetter balance.
And when we start to pull awayteachers I hate to think of
(23:48):
teachers as wolves, that's notthe point we start to pull away
teachers and make less teachersand perhaps more students, our
riverbanks are going to fallapart.
And if our riverbanks arefalling apart, we become
somewhat directionless and thatmetaphor.
I think a lot about it.
I haven't quite worked my brainthrough it.
I get in the book to a degree,but it's something I continue to
(24:10):
chew on, to meditate on,because I think it's really
powerful and it's something alsoreinforced in the activity
theory that model and triangleyou'll find in the book.
When you adjust one thing, itimpacts many more than just your
goal.
It impacts the innovation, itimpacts your society, it impacts
the rule by which you operate.
It impacts on the people.
(24:30):
We just have to be slow andcautious.
It's one of the good thingsabout education is we tend to be
slow to change and in somecases that's a good thing
because it does help us to makesure that we're being very
cautious about how what we doimpacts children.
Fonz Mendoza (24:47):
Before I get to my next question, because that was
a nice segue into you know,talking about access to agency.
But right now that you justmentioned that, as far as being
kind of slow and cautious, Ijust want to ask your thoughts,
because I know that you're outthere at conferences and you see
a myriad of speakers that areout there on stage or presenting
(25:08):
and one of the things, too, isthat there's always a one side
that will always be like oh, ifyou're not doing this right now,
you are hurting your kids.
If you're not doing this rightnow, forget it, they're done in
the future If you're not usingthis.
And it's almost just this kindof fear that they're putting in
that now a teacher's like well,I better use it and I better hop
(25:30):
on, even though I'm not surewhat it's going to do or how
it's going to work, but I don'twant to ruin my kids' futures in
that sense.
So I want to ask what yourthoughts are on that.
You know, you know, andpersonally you, how you feel
like.
Are you more like, just kind of, like you said, slow and steady
?
You know, very just, cautious,cautious advocate, I would say.
You know, that's something thatI call myself.
(25:51):
I try not to be too fastbecause sometimes I can get
overly excited.
But what are your thoughts onthat mindset of hey, if you're
not using it right now with yourfifth graders, forget it,
they're done.
Hey, if you're not using itright now with your fifth
graders, forget it, they're done.
Micah Shippee (26:04):
Yeah, one thing I learned joining the corporate
world is that, unfortunately,fear, uncertainty and doubt
sells, and it's one thing thatwe have to be cautious about as
speakers is that we're notselling fear, uncertainty and
doubt.
In a classroom, we want to havestability and access and make
(26:26):
sure things are equitable forour students, and being a little
slower is important.
I will say in all frankness, asa young teacher, if I saw
something cool and I thought mykids would get a kick out of it,
I would dive right in with twofeet head first.
It probably wasn't the beststrategy.
In practice, I found myself, asI got older, taking a step back
, looking at them't the beststrategy.
In practice.
I found myself, as I got older,taking a step back, looking at
(26:47):
them, because it's not about me,including my classroom design,
my environment.
It's about them.
How are they using it?
How is it benefiting them inthe short term and how is it
benefiting them in the long term?
How could I, as an educator, bemore transparent?
And that's what I call accessto agency.
How can I let them see mestruggle?
You know the TV, the projectorgoes down, the bulb's blown.
(27:09):
What do I do?
Put your heads down while I fixthis.
No, let him watch.
You're starting a lesson.
We're going to try somethingnew.
Not sure how it's going to go.
Let's try it together.
I do think one thing that'svery prevalent in ed tech
specifically is it's veryresponsive.
This just came out.
Let's try it.
Guilty, this just came out.
(27:31):
You got to use it.
It's a new thing.
Got to use this.
Got to use that, I hope.
With 2059, I challenge peopleto be less responsive and more
prepared in thinking about wherethis could all go, how this
could all shake out, so that westart to prepare ourselves with
better policy and betterinfrastructure to provide more
(27:54):
access for students.
Fonz Mendoza (27:56):
Excellent.
I definitely agree with that andI hope it just even right now
2025, we can just get into thatright now too as well, because
you know, like you said it's,you see the hype and the buildup
and I think a lot of teachersand I always quote a great guest
that I had, renee Dawson you'vegot your speedboats, you've got
your tugboats and you've gotyour anchors.
(28:17):
One thing that I love that youmentioned, micah, is the way
that you kind of stand back andobserve where, before the tech
was about me, I, what I wantedto do, what I wanted to share,
as opposed to, like youmentioned, later on in my career
, I was like no, no, this isabout you and seeing how the
students let them lead with thetech and let's see how they use
(28:39):
it, let's see how it benefitsthem and how it helps them
enhance, augment or redefineassignments or their submissions
and their learning in thataspect.
So that's something that Ireally love that you mentioned
there that sometimes, as ateacher, it's okay to step back
and obviously, too, it's okay tonot know everything and
sometimes feel vulnerable andallow students to be able to see
(29:02):
that too as well, because thatalso helps them.
Which kind of brings me to thatconcept of access to agency.
Like you mentioned that it'ssomething that's critical to
learners.
Can you just dive in deep alittle bit more into how this
can help educators also and howwe can foster agency for our
students?
Micah Shippee (29:21):
Yeah, in the book I talk a little bit about my
dad and how my dad and I wouldwork on cars together, largely
out of necessity growing up, butI wouldn't say that as a result
of that I learned how to fix acar, because I was the guy
handing all the tools to my dad.
What I learned is that it canbe done, and so his agency, to
(29:41):
repair a vehicle.
I had access to it, I got tosee it, I got to watch it, I got
to experience him, troubleshoothim, struggle, his
intuitiveness.
And providing that to studentsis really kind of cool to allow
them to hear you talk about.
I'm struggling with this.
I was using ChatGPT the otherday and I wrote this paper with
(30:06):
it and I didn't like the way itcame out because it wasn't my
voice struggling out loudtalking about it, and that kind
of prompt and that kind ofnarrative I think is really
going to help students preparethem for their future, which is
so vastly different than ourpast.
Fonz Mendoza (30:23):
I love that and I love that example that you said.
You know allowing them to seethat like, for example, for
example, you learned from yourdad, you had that experience and
, like you know, going back tothat classroom experience, you
know, I know that and there'snothing wrong.
There's several teaching stylesout there.
Some people they do greatlectures and they're up at the
front the whole time but they'reengaging.
There's others that kind ofstand back and say, OK, students
(30:45):
, how about you?
Like, let's flip the learning,and so on.
But I think that's so important,like you mentioned, just for
them to be able to still havethat productive struggle you
still being there and you stillleaving an example, Like I said,
vulnerability, at least in myexperience when I was in the
classroom, when the students sawme like, oh man, this lesson
didn't turn out the way that Iwanted it to turn out, but we
(31:06):
were able to improvise, adaptand overcome and that kind of
led us into well, we couldn'tquite get this done, but this
leads us into this next concept.
So let's start with that andthen we can come back and
revisit this, but they were ableto see that and I think that's
something that is very important, and I love that that you
mentioned this, because I thinksometimes we can get lost so
(31:26):
much with the technology becauseit's just giving them more and
more and more as far as the techis concerned and not really
listening to like, do theyreally need this or how are they
using it, and then, of course,as a teacher, making those
adjustments as needed.
So I think that's fantastic.
Now let's talk a little bithere.
I want to talk about practicalimplementation because I know
(31:49):
your book.
It definitely has a lot ofthings, but I don't want my
listeners to leave the episodewith getting some practical tips
here as well.
So I want to ask you you know,as you discuss different
stakeholders, we always talkabout policymakers,
administrators, educators,students, parents and so on.
They all have different rolesin shaping the future of
education.
(32:09):
So I want to ask you at thistime, which group do you think
faces the greatest challenges inadapting to these changes as
far as AI?
Micah Shippee (32:20):
That's a great question Because the reality of
how it impacts a classroomteacher trying to understand how
to use it.
How do you know who's writingthe paper anymore?
It's not as simple as anauthenticity poll off of Google.
It's nothing like that anymore.
It's more like you know how canwe perhaps adjust strategy.
(32:42):
But those are with adults whohave that skill set.
So I'm worried about that.
But also for students, how dothey make meaning of this new
world?
That, to me, is the scariestpart, because it's under the
radar more.
You know.
It's kind of like studies onscreen time.
You know we study screen time.
Adults are worried about itputting away.
(33:03):
But are we watching every kidto see how long they're on the
screen and do we really know itsimpact?
I think I'm being a little bitunclear, because this is a
really good question.
So I really want to think aboutit Visibly.
I would say I'm going to see ateacher struggle to figure out
how to use AI in the classroom,but in terms of depth, I'm not
going to see the struggle insidea student's head, which is more
dangerous when you can't see it.
Fonz Mendoza (33:28):
That's the part that scares me the most.
Does that make sense?
Yes, no, absolutely.
It absolutely makes sense.
I'm with you on that, 1000%.
Yeah, you're absolutely rightNow.
So that's that question.
So now for some practicalityhere.
For our listeners that are CTOs, that are directors of
technology, you know justclassroom teachers that are in
there, they're with the I wantto ask you, for those that are
(33:49):
listening, can you describe whatyour first recommendations
would be, the first three steps?
Just for maybe somebody who has, who is just needs to make that
decision, but doesn't knowwhere to start because they're
frozen with so much With yourexperience, what would you
recommend be their first threesteps to be able to dive in?
Micah Shippee (34:10):
The first step is to try using this new
technology or new innovationyourself to solve a personal
task.
That's the first thing, nothingto do with school.
I'm at home, I've got to fixsomething.
Try using AI instead ofsearching for a YouTube video
about what I'm trying to fix.
(34:31):
Just try it.
I think that's a fantasticfirst step.
I think we both probablylearned a lot of really cool
tech by using it personally, notwithin a classroom structure.
I think it's really importantto step away from that.
Perhaps a step two.
Let's say how would this problemhave been solved if I hadn't
(34:52):
used this tech?
I personally tried to solve apiece of code.
I was on Blue Sky trying tolook at how Blue Sky can connect
to Google Sheets for anautomation.
Oh, I can judiciously andcautiously use a bot Trying to
figure that out.
And I was working in this codefor like three days and I got on
chat GPT.
Actually, it was Claude.
(35:12):
I was using Claude, anthropicsClaude at the time.
I dropped it into Claude andsaid I can't figure out why this
link won't connect, and itfigured it out in 30 seconds
Done.
So I wasted three days, 30seconds.
The problem is solved.
My step two is to take a stepback.
What's the most valuable thing?
(35:33):
It's time.
If time's that valuable, thenif I can have something solved
my time personally.
Then I start to think about mystep three and after that point
of self-reflection I then startto think about okay, what's a
way I can try this in myclassroom.
That's kind of a safe thing.
It's not a big assessment,maybe it's just a little
(35:54):
formative check, not a summativecheck.
How can I use this formativetrick with my students and see
how this new tech impacts theirunderstanding?
And I think that's a reallyconservative, cautious three
steps.
Fonz Mendoza (36:08):
I love it, Excellent.
Now that brings me to somequestions here that I want to
ask you as far as your personalreflections as you went about
writing your book and doing yourresearch here on 2059.
So I want to ask you because,as both your experience as an
educator and, of course, now thedirector of education solutions
at Samsung, I want to ask youhow your professional journey
(36:31):
has influenced your vision ofeducation's future.
Micah Shippee (36:36):
My professional journey as a subject matter
expert in education at least inmy niche in my middle school
world for a couple of decadeshas informed a big capital W-H-Y
in my head when it comes totech.
Why would I use this, why doesit matter?
And leading with a why insteadof a, what I think is critical
(36:57):
and I've been fortunate enoughto have been able to inform in
my professional life productcreation, product development
from that perspective, how is itactually going to help?
So you think of, like a largeinteractive display.
I've been able to say you don'tjust put the latest AI chatbot
up there and assume that it'sgoing to work, Because if you
(37:18):
put a chatbot up there, theeducator is going to turn around
and have their back to theirstudents and they're going to be
talking to an AI chatbot in away that does not amplify good
instructional practice based onpresence and awareness of the
classroom.
So that's a micro example ofleading with the why based on
what we've done as educators.
Fonz Mendoza (37:40):
Love it.
And the next question I want toask you obviously now, if you
could ensure one idea from yourbook becomes reality in
education systems worldwide.
Which would it be, and why?
Micah Shippee (37:54):
Oh man, the biggest takeaway I want from the
book if I was to pick one, I'vegot a bunch, but if I was to
pick one would be to inspirepeople in education, involved in
education adjacent to education, which is the entire planet, to
(38:14):
start thinking about the future.
Instead of responding to rightnow, let's think about okay, if
we do these next three things,where does this go?
What's down the road in 10years, 20 years, 30 years and 35
years?
Fonz Mendoza (38:25):
Nice, excellent, I love it All right.
Well, before we wrap up and wehit our final, last three
questions I've got a couple ofclosing questions here.
I think we still have a littlebit of time, but I want to ask
you.
You know now your book is acall to action for everybody,
like you just mentioned, that isinvolved in education, or even
those that would be inspiredthat are outside of education as
(38:47):
well.
But I want to ask you what doyou hope that the readers will
do differently after engagingwith 2059?
Micah Shippee (38:57):
Well, I would hope that an educator would be
inspired to know that you havenot been doing it wrong.
Your whole career and the waywe position ourselves in the
classroom, our engagements withour students, are critical
moving forward, and so when webring in new technology, please
rest on what we know to be truefor benefiting children through
(39:21):
the learning journey.
That's one of the big things.
But then I would also say maybewe need to think differently
about what our students willhave to do in the future.
You know, the age of spending40 years in one corporate
organization has changed, sothere's several things our
(39:42):
students are going to have to do.
One is learn how to upskill,learn new job skills.
They're going to have to dothat more than you and I ever
did.
Our students are going to haveto upskill more.
So, teaching them aboutupskilling, they're going to
have to understand how to usehuman intuition.
If that was done today, itwould be.
I generated this XYZ thingletter, perhaps with AI, but man
(40:06):
that doesn't sound like a humanwould speak.
That's using your humanintuition.
That's going to be critical.
It's going to be critical tounderstand how to collaborate,
how to be an editor, how to workwith this program.
How do I say, hey, this codeisn't working, fix it.
And it makes a pitch.
You're like, no, that's not it,fix it again and keep speaking
with this technology.
(40:27):
And then also, being reallycautious about humans in space
and where we are in coordinationwith each other.
I redesigned or used, excuse me, one AI engine with a map.
I put in a map of Paris.
Then I said redesign Paris tobe a perfect city, and it
(40:48):
changed the flow of the sun tobe a straight line, it changed
the streets to be a straight Xand it removed many landmarks,
primarily churches, that scaredme to death.
So being cautious aboutsocietal systems and perhaps
embracing some of that messinessthat is to be human is what I
(41:08):
hope people will be encouragedto do.
Fonz Mendoza (41:12):
That's great, I love it.
Thank you so much, Micah, and Iguess that'll bring me to kind
of my last question that I wantto ask.
So, Micah, the year is 2059.
And guess what?
You and I are on my EdTech Lifeand this will probably be show,
I don't know, maybe 1529.
And so you and I are here, youknow, in our 80s.
(41:35):
So I want to ask you what wouldyou hope to see from your book
and say, wow, you know that thisis what everybody's talking
about.
That I wrote 35 years ago.
What would be the one thingthat you would hope people are
talking about at that time?
Micah Shippee (41:53):
I would hope that the book causes a groundswell
of conversation, not aboutwhether or not Michael was right
, but a conversation about thefuture and about hey, we've got
to think change.
We don't like change, we liketo ignore change.
Change is gross and ugly andnobody got to think change.
We don't like change, we liketo ignore change.
Change is gross and ugly andnobody wants to do that.
But I would hope I encouragepeople to think about change,
(42:14):
not because it impacts us rightnow, but because of how it might
impact our children's childrenand beyond.
Fonz Mendoza (42:21):
Excellent.
Thank you, micah, and that'swonderful and hopefully 2059,
I'll make sure and send thatinvite and that way we can
definitely have thisconversation, my friend, because
it would be wonderful to justsee how this has evolved, where
we're headed and, of course,just because of the work of you
and so many others that are veryinnovative and are out there
(42:42):
just really just bringing somegreat thoughts and ideas to,
like you mentioned, have theseconversations to be able to make
some changes in the positiveway, and I think that that's
something great.
And I applaud you, micah,because, like I said, from the
time that I first met you,you've always been so kind to me
, genuine, authentic, and evenin the conversations that we
have every once in a while,we'll rerun into each other and
(43:05):
I get to be able to amplifyprojects like this that you get
to do.
It's been an amazing experienceand I continue to learn from
you each and every day.
So thank you so much for thefriendship, thank you so much
for being here on the podcastand just thank you so much for
being an inspiration.
I really appreciate you, micah.
Micah Shippee (43:22):
The feeling is mutual, my friend, Always a
pleasure to speak with you.
I look for you when I'm inTexas and it's always great to
find a friendly face and acollaborator.
So thank you.
Fonz Mendoza (43:32):
Absolutely.
Thank you, micah, but before wewrap up, we've got the last
three questions that we alwaysend the show with, so hopefully
you are ready to go here, micah.
As we know, every superhero hasa pain point or a weakness, and
we know that Superman, thatkryptonite, was something that
just weakened him.
And I want to ask you, in thecurrent state of education, what
(43:52):
would you say, is your currentedu kryptonite?
Micah Shippee (43:57):
Oh, it's time, it's absolutely time, not enough
hours in the day.
Fonz Mendoza (44:03):
That's good.
That works out well, because Ithink you and I are in the same
boat right now.
My friend.
All right, so here we go.
Question number two If youcould have a billboard with
anything on it, what would it beand why?
Micah Shippee (44:16):
I would honestly, as vain as it sounds, I'd put
the book cover on it 2059, thefuture of education, just to get
people talking about it.
Fonz Mendoza (44:25):
Love it.
Excellent, I can definitely seethat that's a great billboard.
And then, of course, make sureyou have the QR code sending
them to that Amazon link forsure That'd be fantastic.
All right, and the lastquestion, my friend, is if you
could trade places with anyonefor a single day, who would that
be and why?
Micah Shippee (44:44):
Oh, I have to vindicate someone.
I would switch with Bill Gatesto get to the point in your life
where you have the time and thewherewithal to benefit humanity
and to be thinking aboutproblems that are global and how
you might help people.
Having access to tools thatwould help me to benefit other
(45:11):
people, I think that'd be coolto be Bill Gates for the day.
Fonz Mendoza (45:14):
Excellent, Well, great answers, my friend.
I appreciate you.
Thank you so much again forjoining me and taking a little
part of your day to spend itwith me and get to talk about
your new project.
So everybody again.
2059, the future of educationyes, sir.
Micah Shippee (45:29):
I forgot to mention.
I added the book to my website,so your listeners can get it
for 20% off If they go to thewebsite.
There's a little pop-up thatflashes up.
Just go ahead and enter theemail and they'll have access to
a discount on the book Perfect,excellent.
Fonz Mendoza (45:43):
We will definitely link your website to the show
notes.
That way, everybody can goahead and visit your website and
they can go ahead and get thebook.
Thank you, micah, again forbeing an amazing guest.
Thank you for this greatconversation and for all our
listeners.
Thank you, as always, for allof your support.
We appreciate all the likes,the shares, the follows and if
you haven't followed us yet onsocial media, please make sure
you follow us at MyEdTechLifeand make sure that you jump over
(46:06):
to our YouTube channel.
Subscribe, give us a thumbs up.
We definitely appreciate that,as that goes a long way for us
to make sure that our contentcontinues to get dispersed.
And again, I definitely want tothank all our sponsors.
Thank you so much to BookCreator, thank you so much
Yellowdig and EduAid forsponsoring our show and
believing in our mission andthat we get the opportunity to
(46:28):
bring you some amazing guestsand amazing conversations like
we have today.
So thank you for your supportand, my friends, until next time
, don't forget, stay techie.
Thank you.
Hello everybody and welcome to another great
episode of my EdTech Life.
Thank you so much for joiningus on this wonderful day and,
wherever it is that you'rejoining us from around the world
, thank you, as always, for allof your support.
We appreciate all the likes,the shares, the follows.
Thank you so much for engagingwith our content, for giving us
some wonderful feedback.
Thank you so much.
(00:51):
As you know, we do what we dofor you to bring you some
amazing conversations withamazing guests, to continue to
nurture our education landscapeand just to continue to see
different perspectives anddifferent viewpoints.
And today I'm really excited towelcome back a second time
guest, and I'm really excited towelcome him back because he
does some amazing work.
(01:12):
He is a great mentor also aswell, and I always love catching
up with him.
Micah Shippey, thank you somuch for coming back to the show
.
How are you doing today?
I'm doing well, thank you.
Thanks for having me Lovecoming back to the show.
How are you doing today?
Micah Shippee (01:22):
I'm doing well, thank you.
Thanks for having me Lovecoming back to the show.
Fonz Mendoza (01:26):
Absolutely, and I love having you back, my friend,
and it's always great to catchup with you at conferences, just
kind of talk to you, get tohang out, hear the work that
you're doing, and today we'redefinitely going to be talking
about some great work that youhave just released right here
2059, future of Education.
So we'll definitely make surewe link that in the show notes.
(01:48):
But before we dive in, forthose that may not be familiar
with your work just yet, for allour new audience members, all
our new listeners, can you giveus a little brief introduction
and what your context is withinthe education space?
Micah Shippee (02:03):
For sure.
Number one my background 22years of public education,
teaching middle school as aclassroom teacher, for all 22
years serving as an ed techconsultant, helping teachers
globally in the adoption ofinnovation journey.
I definitely view it as ajourney.
My first book was WanderlustEDU.
I served as an ed tech coachfor the Google Innovator Academy
(02:28):
, a little bit with the GoogleEarth team and as a consultant
with some big tech organizationsbefore joining Samsung three
years ago as the director ofeducation solutions, where I
built out a team of world-classbest in the business education
coaches that serve schools inthe adoption process of Samsung
technology.
Fonz Mendoza (02:49):
Excellent.
Well, definitely a greatbackground and, like I said, I
know you were here also wetalked about Wunderlust a little
bit.
We definitely talked a littlebit about AI, as that was coming
out, and you're definitely abig advocate on change in
education.
And you're definitely a bigadvocate on change in education.
I know the last time you werehere, one of the most memorable
quotes also was you know we'restill.
You know, classrooms still lookthe same in rows Industrial
(03:16):
revolution type education, bellto bell, you know, and all that
good stuff.
But today I'm really excitedbecause, like I said I just
shared here, you just released abook 2059, the Future of
Education.
So I want to ask youspecifically about the book
title 2059.
Now, that's quite a specifictime frame.
It's about 35 years into, ofcourse, the future of education,
and so I want to ask you aboutthat why 2059?
(03:39):
What was going on through yourmind and your thought process,
as, of course, we know, ai, uh,generative ai coming out in 2022
and now, and what you've seenin your experience, tell us a
little bit behind about thestory behind that, sure yeah, um
.
Micah Shippee (03:54):
Well, I've always been fascinated by the work of
futurists, often in sci-fi, forentertainment or escapism, um,
but I really thought it was neatto look ahead to the future
with a hyper-focus on education,because I hadn't seen that done
.
Predicting the future, if youwill, is a challenge, and either
brave or insane.
(04:15):
I haven't decided which yet.
I picked the year 2059 becausewhen I started the book, I gave
myself the same amount of timethat George Orwell gave himself
in 1984.
And I thought, okay, thatGeorge Orwell gave himself in
1984.
And I thought, ok, if GeorgeOrwell is going to predict this
dystopian future 35 years ahead,why don't I do the same?
And so I intended to releasethe book in 2024, but missed my
(04:37):
mark by three months and,frankly, fell in love with the
title.
So I kept it.
Fonz Mendoza (04:42):
There you go.
Micah Shippee (04:43):
Excellent.
Fonz Mendoza (04:43):
Well, let's talk a little bit about that, because
I know you talked about Orwellhere and you're talking about
the future and some of thesepredictions, like you said, that
things that you see that mightbe difficult to defend later on
and I know that's something thatyou wrote because, like you
said, statistically you shouldbe about 82 years old at that
time, and so you know, hopefully, God willing, you know we're
(05:07):
going to be talking about thisand some of the things that you
might need to defend, what wouldyou say would be some of your
most controversial, I guess,takes that you feel would need
some defending in 2059?
.
Micah Shippee (05:19):
I think the most controversial, honestly, would
be things outside of education,like when they talk about the
year 2059, they break out fourmajor decades and 2059 is the
last, of course, the farthestaway, and I propose that there's
great potential that we'reheaded towards a post-scarcity
world where everyone has accessto what they need.
(05:42):
Imagine that Everyone on theplanet has access to what they
need.
Imagine that Everyone on theplanet has access to what they
need.
And the reason I think thatwill be the hardest to defend is
because there's many, manyvariables that far out that are
outside of education and wouldtherefore impact the education
outcome.
Fonz Mendoza (05:59):
Excellent.
Well, that's definitely greatand we're definitely going to
get into that a little bit more.
But one of the things that alsoyou know as going through this
and like letting you know likehow really nicely laid out this
is and it's just like some greatbits and I'm just like it's
really hard to put this down,honestly, you know, because the
more you read, the more you getinto it and then, of course, you
(06:20):
kind of bring it into your ownrelationship and into what
you're seeing.
You know in the education spacepersonally too as well, and it
resonates with that.
But I want to ask you about thefusion model for organizational
adoption of innovation.
So can you tell us a little bitabout that and how?
that model is developed and whyit's crucial for educational
(06:42):
transformation.
Micah Shippee (06:44):
Yeah, well, looking ahead at the future is
very difficult and understandingchange is well, change
management is perhaps one of themost difficult things for
organizations, not justeducation.
So I developed the fusion modelby looking at the work of
Everett Rogers, who has anorganizational adoption model,
and Engstrom, who developed theactivity theory.
(07:05):
And the activity theory saysthat at each stage of each
moment, we can look at theintersection of innovation,
people, society, our, our rules,our work, our goals.
And whenever one of thosechanges, it impacts the others.
And so I use that as a criticallens to say you know, where are
we in deciding in a journey,where we're going next and how
(07:30):
do we get to the place that Icall the pencil moment, and
that's the place of routinizing.
And so the pencil moment is themoment where we stop talking
about a technology as a thingand we focus on the practice.
So if you imagine a mathclassroom saying today we're
going to learn math with apencil, that doesn't really
happen, but I would argue whenpencils first came out, that was
(07:51):
the language.
Right, you can use yourhistorical imagination of our
teacher ancestors thinking thatway.
Well, we've gotten to the pointwhere we fully adopted.
It was part of our routine thepencil so I make the argument
that we'll get to that pointwith things like AI as well.
Now, once I finished the book, Iinstantly thought of another
analogy that I did not put inthe book, and that is what I
(08:14):
call the keyboard dilemma.
The keyboard is not the bestlayout.
It was designed so that thefingers on a typewriter don't
get jumbled up.
That's where we got the QWERTYkeyboard.
That's why the letters are soodd.
There's a much better keyboardcalled a Dvorak, and many others
that we don't use because we'reso stuck on the old model, and
(08:34):
so, rather than adopting new andbetter like our pencil moment,
we're still stuck in thekeyboard dilemma on things like
the QWERTY keyboard.
Fonz Mendoza (08:43):
All right, and so that kind of is a nice segue,
kind of talking about the pencilmoment.
But I want to talk to you aboutspecifically.
You also make a distinctionbetween integration and adoption
of technology and education.
So please can you elaborate onwhy you really focused on this
distinction and how it canchange our approach and maybe
(09:05):
reframing it when we aseducators, or maybe somebody in
a position that gets to choosewhat kind of technology is going
to be brought into theclassroom, yeah, the integration
is in the fusion model, theinitial phase of organizational
adoption.
Micah Shippee (09:22):
It's when we are seeing if something fits of
organizational adoption.
It's when we are seeing ifsomething fits.
Any innovation technology, anew practice, a new strategy
does this thing help us?
And so we integrate it intoexisting practice and we watch
and we listen and we see is thisgoing to work, before we make
that decision or not to adopt.
(09:44):
And if we decide to adopt inthe fusion model, I refer to
that as implementation.
That's where we start to godown the journey of adopting
towards that pencil moment.
And adoption is ownership ishow I think of it.
It's much more personal thanintegrating.
Fonz Mendoza (10:02):
Nice and that actually makes a lot of sense,
like you said, and especiallythat last part that you said
just making it very personal,and I think oftentimes, you know
, we confuse the two and justsay, oh, this is what we're
going to be adopting, ratherthan thinking, okay, this is
actually the integration processand working its way until you
kind of make it your own.
And right now, I mean, I wantto ask you you know, what can
(10:26):
people in a certain role orposition, for example, a
coordinator for learning or aCTO, can do with so many AI
applications out there?
I mean, they're overwhelmed.
What steps would you recommendfor them to take in order to
choose or make the best decisionfor their district?
Micah Shippee (10:46):
Well, I highly recommend forming a committee of
advisors, not just people whoagree with you, but people who,
in the field, in your community,are respected for their voice.
Not just the geeks orinnovators like you and me, but
also people who are a littleslower to adopt, a little bit
cautious, that want to thinkabout something and then, in
(11:06):
those groups, start to proposequestions like let's talk about
your personal struggle withthese innovations, how do you
feel about AI?
How are you using it now?
Are you using it more than yourealize?
And then take that personal useapproach and backpedal into do
you think it's going to becontinued to have an impact on
(11:28):
our lives?
And, if so, it's ourresponsibility to start
preparing our students for thatimpact.
And so I think there's levelsof trusted advisors, trusted
groups, self-reflection, groupreflection that can inform a
better practice which will havea positive impact on our
students.
Fonz Mendoza (11:49):
Excellent, that is a great suggestion.
And I know I've had Dr AnikaMcGee also here as well and I
know while she was working in alocal school district that was a
couple of miles away from me, Iknow when this generative AI
tools were coming out, I knowthat's one of the things that
she did was she gathered someteachers and was working with
them and, of course, they werejust kind of going through
(12:10):
everything like what are thepositives, what are the
negatives of certain platformsto be able to advise and say, ok
, these would be the best suitedfor now, at this given time,
that fit these parametersObviously, data security,
privacy and all of those things.
But I want to ask you, because Iknow you get to travel a lot,
or, you know, due to your workwith Samsung, and I know that
(12:32):
you have your ear to the groundand I know a lot of educators
come, you know, visit with you.
You get to talk to them, youget to learn a little bit about
what's going on with them.
So I want to ask you, like,right now, I know that we are
already you know well in from2022 to 2025.
You know there's a lot ofchanges in generative AI.
What do you still hear?
You know having your ear to theground at these conferences or
(12:54):
listening to the great speakers.
What are still some of thebarriers that teachers or any
educator and professional arefacing dealing with AI in
education, any educator andprofessional are facing dealing
with AI in education.
Micah Shippee (13:09):
Well, I think the number one barrier from what
I've been hearing and what I seeis understanding AI as chat GPT
and that's it.
So I'm on chat GPT andeverything I do there is AI.
Therefore, anything my studentsdo under the idea of AI is what
chat GPT does.
Therefore, anything my studentsdo under the idea of AI is what
ChachiPT does, and that'sincredibly inaccurate.
(13:30):
Ai does so many things and canamplify so many great practices
in the classroom that transcendone singular application.
I think AI is being used inmany tech industries and in
practice as a prefix, like weused to use a lowercase e for
e-paper or lowercase I in frontof a name to identify us or
(13:52):
attach us to an innovation.
I feel like AI is the newprefix that people are just
throwing around and, as aseasoned practitioner, I'm more
interested in what you do withit and how it amplifies good
practice and fits into ourexisting schema, our existing
background of what good teachinglooks like.
Fonz Mendoza (14:10):
Oh, excellent.
I really like that andespecially you meant like what
you said, putting the small I infront of something.
There's things a lot like iPads, things of that sort Sure sure.
So, yeah, that's a very wellsaid and very well put.
So thank you so much, becausethat definitely, you know,
resonates and just really bringsthat to light.
(14:30):
So I really like there what youmentioned and you know,
mentioning those barriers, likeyou said.
You know.
Therefore, you know if I'musing ChaiGPT, then this is
really all that they're doingbut, like you said you mentioned
, you know how it augments.
So, going back to that and yourclassroom experience, and
obviously now you know, throughSamsung working on a lot of
innovative projects and so on,what are some of the things that
(14:52):
you might suggest, or maybeeven hear through your book that
you suggest as far as beingable to take what we're doing
now and augmenting it andaugmenting that in the classroom
for our students, augmenting itand augmenting that in the
classroom for our students.
What might be some suggestionsthere that you might be able to
share with our teachers or whatto look out for?
You know that, instead of justseeing it as chat, gpt.
Micah Shippee (15:14):
Yeah, I think in chapter one I actually outlined
related to what we were speakingabout a few minutes ago the
fusion model and I show thestory of AI adoption in the
school and talk about initiationand implementation.
So there is a clear example ofwhat that looks like.
To help amplify or unpack someof the academic speak I
sometimes fall into, I'm doingmy best.
(15:35):
When it comes to lookingforward to the future, I think
there's a profound value inlooking back at our past, you
know, looking at the things thatwe have been unable to do in
education, and how caninnovation, how can new
technologies support it.
So, for example, I would makethe argument the number one way
(15:57):
to teach is one-on-one with anexpert and an apprentice.
It's the best way to learnsomething.
They can watch you, they cangive you guidance, they can talk
to you about it.
So your social learning is stillpart of that story.
It's missing one component, andthat's another learner that you
can collaborate with andcommiserate with, because you
(16:17):
make meaning together with apeer.
That's missing from that model,but it's still, I think, the
best model.
So if you add that otherlearner and you add that expert
or that mentor, you start to getfarther and farther away from
the mentor's one-on-one support.
And so 150 years ago, wedecided let's put 25 to 35
(16:37):
people in a room with one expert, and this will be perfect.
It'll be just like ourfactories it will use bells to
get people to go in between.
So we're pretty hung up on thatmodel.
So what I would say for thefuture is we start to look at AI
as an example, is a way toprovide one-on-one that also
gives us access to that expertwho now humanizes the learning,
(17:02):
which is a critical point I hopewe come back to.
But lets me also have my peersin the room to commiserate,
collaborate and make meaning ofthe learning.
And so now that trifecta isbeing perfected in a way that
it's never been possible.
Fonz Mendoza (17:19):
And see and that's great that you mentioned that
in the book, because I know youknow that's in chapter one Now
in chapter two, kind of likethat growing aspect, and you
outline these scenarios here ineducation, because you talked a
little bit about the 2059, whichis that hyper-connected
classroom 2029, thebio-integrated learner 2039, and
(17:47):
the community learning hub in2049, and, of course, the
post-scarcity scholar.
So I want to ask you which ofthese scenarios excites you the
most and which might cause youjust a bit of concern from all
of these four that we'vedescribed, cause you just a bit
of concern.
Micah Shippee (18:06):
You know, from all of these four that we've
described, I'm most excitedabout the community learning hub
.
I love environment and spaceand how it impacts our learning
and our thinking and how, whenwe work together to solve local
problems or generate localsolutions, we're having a clear,
tangible impact.
I love how that has potential,if we frame our mind correctly,
(18:26):
to inform global impact as well,something like looking at the
United Nations SustainableDevelopment Goals, access to
clean water locally, coming upwith a solution locally, can
inform another locale, anothercommunity.
That gets me the most excited,the one that scares me the most,
is bio-integrated, because Iview bio-integrated as
problematic for us and I'd liketo unpack that a little bit so
(18:49):
people understand what I'msaying.
If you think about today, thereare examples of people who have
a medical condition like beingquadriplegic or paralysis that
prevents them from using partsof their body, and there's been
many highlights in the media ofimplants that allows them to
play video games and tocommunicate and do things that
(19:11):
are.
It's super cool.
It gets me excited.
What doesn't get me excited iswhat comes next, because while
something serves as a medicalaid, the more that medical aid
becomes used, the more likely itwill become part of other
people's lives and that willturn into an augmentation of
(19:31):
what we can do every day.
So now you know, I have a chipin the back of my head and I
load up the history textbook andI no longer need to talk about
it and develop skills around it,because they have the quote
unquote knowledge, Because wehave to be hyper judicious about
these technologies in theclassroom.
I mean, right now we're worriedabout whether or not students
have a phone or a smartwatch.
Imagine not knowing how theyknow what they know, or where it
(19:56):
came from, or if the source isa good source.
That scares me a bit.
Fonz Mendoza (20:01):
Yeah, no, and that can definitely be something for
sure, and especially, like youmentioned, because for me, one
of my things has always been,you know, with the use of these
tools and you know, as the toolscontinue to grow and they
continue to, you know, be bettereach and every day, you know,
and each and every week there'ssomething else.
But my concern has always been,you know, sort of like what you
(20:21):
mentioned is, even now, whenteacher using this kind of
technology, the generative AIaspect, you know, teachers just
seeing that first output asbeing gospel and just saying,
yep, here we go, this is what itgave me.
Micah Shippee (20:34):
Here we go.
Fonz Mendoza (20:34):
This is what I'm going to do and really, you know
, losing out.
Like you mentioned, we stillneed to know that knowledge.
To know that knowledge, westill need to be that subject
matter expert to be able todissect, to decipher, to make
sure that this is something thatis good enough content for not
only your students, but thatwe're putting out there for them
in the education space.
(20:55):
And, like you mentioned, withsomething like that, it's like
well, you know the history book,well, whose history is it?
You know where is this comingfrom, and so, yeah, those are
the main concerns there,especially.
So I definitely agree with youon that, and but you know, we'll
see how that plays out, andhopefully you know, like I said,
what I love, though, comingback to the learning hub for me,
(21:15):
for myself, being part of, youknow, google Innovators Group
and, of course, just getting tonetwork with so many people is
just being able to bring ideastogether in that human aspect
and, like you said, being ableto solve something that can
later lead to something else,that can later lead to even a
greater project, and then, allof a sudden, that continues to
grow.
(21:36):
But it's a hub of knowledgethat is everybody put together,
you know, and just beingconnected, and it makes a huge
difference, and I think thatthat's something that would be
very beneficial, you know, aseducators, to being able to find
that hub, or being able to findthose people that you can
connect with, to continue togrow and grow in practice as
well.
Which brings me to that nextpiece.
(21:57):
You know, that human elementpiece, which I do want to talk
to you about because, you know,here you also mentioned out
talking to teachers, lettingthem know it says you cannot be
replaced, you know.
So I want to ask you here youknow what prompted you to really
go in deep with them?
Because I know you mentioned anecological concept with this
(22:20):
that is tied together.
So tell me a little bit moreabout that, because I know that
there are a lot of people outthere that always say, well, no,
teachers will never be replaced, but there's other people
that'll say, yeah, you know AI,I mean eventually that's what
it's going to come to you knowit's going to replace the
teacher.
Why would we need classrooms?
So tell me a little bit aboutthat and that importance of that
(22:40):
human element.
Micah Shippee (22:43):
Yeah, and in fact just last week Bill Gates said
that Doctors and teachers willbe replaced.
That scares me because as aclassroom teacher, I understand
that human empathy and unpackingthe human experience as messy
as that unpacking is is criticalto student learning because
it's a form of modeling, anagency that they can't otherwise
(23:05):
get from a non-human interface,or shouldn't, I should say, get
from a non-human interface.
You know, I talked aboutTrophic Cassie in the book and
the story of the wolves inYellowstone and how rivers
changed direction as the wolvesbecame extinct.
And as the wolves were broughtback in, the river's courses got
more steadfast.
(23:26):
And it's because, you know,without the wolves you have more
deer.
When you have more deer,they're eating more shrubbery on
the side of rivers, which iscausing the banks to get looser,
which is causing the rivers tochange everything.
And when you start toreintroduce the deer, the
ecosystem is in a state ofbetter balance.
And when we start to pull awayteachers I hate to think of
(23:48):
teachers as wolves, that's notthe point we start to pull away
teachers and make less teachersand perhaps more students, our
riverbanks are going to fallapart.
And if our riverbanks arefalling apart, we become
somewhat directionless and thatmetaphor.
I think a lot about it.
I haven't quite worked my brainthrough it.
I get in the book to a degree,but it's something I continue to
(24:10):
chew on, to meditate on,because I think it's really
powerful and it's something alsoreinforced in the activity
theory that model and triangleyou'll find in the book.
When you adjust one thing, itimpacts many more than just your
goal.
It impacts the innovation, itimpacts your society, it impacts
the rule by which you operate.
It impacts on the people.
(24:30):
We just have to be slow andcautious.
It's one of the good thingsabout education is we tend to be
slow to change and in somecases that's a good thing
because it does help us to makesure that we're being very
cautious about how what we doimpacts children.
Fonz Mendoza (24:47):
Before I get to my next question, because that was
a nice segue into you know,talking about access to agency.
But right now that you justmentioned that, as far as being
kind of slow and cautious, Ijust want to ask your thoughts,
because I know that you're outthere at conferences and you see
a myriad of speakers that areout there on stage or presenting
(25:08):
and one of the things, too, isthat there's always a one side
that will always be like oh, ifyou're not doing this right now,
you are hurting your kids.
If you're not doing this rightnow, forget it, they're done in
the future If you're not usingthis.
And it's almost just this kindof fear that they're putting in
that now a teacher's like well,I better use it and I better hop
(25:30):
on, even though I'm not surewhat it's going to do or how
it's going to work, but I don'twant to ruin my kids' futures in
that sense.
So I want to ask what yourthoughts are on that.
You know, you know, andpersonally you, how you feel
like.
Are you more like, just kind of, like you said, slow and steady
?
You know, very just, cautious,cautious advocate, I would say.
You know, that's something thatI call myself.
(25:51):
I try not to be too fastbecause sometimes I can get
overly excited.
But what are your thoughts onthat mindset of hey, if you're
not using it right now with yourfifth graders, forget it,
they're done.
Hey, if you're not using itright now with your fifth
graders, forget it, they're done.
Micah Shippee (26:04):
Yeah, one thing I learned joining the corporate
world is that, unfortunately,fear, uncertainty and doubt
sells, and it's one thing thatwe have to be cautious about as
speakers is that we're notselling fear, uncertainty and
doubt.
In a classroom, we want to havestability and access and make
(26:26):
sure things are equitable forour students, and being a little
slower is important.
I will say in all frankness, asa young teacher, if I saw
something cool and I thought mykids would get a kick out of it,
I would dive right in with twofeet head first.
It probably wasn't the beststrategy.
In practice, I found myself, asI got older, taking a step back
, looking at them't the beststrategy.
In practice.
I found myself, as I got older,taking a step back, looking at
(26:47):
them, because it's not about me,including my classroom design,
my environment.
It's about them.
How are they using it?
How is it benefiting them inthe short term and how is it
benefiting them in the long term?
How could I, as an educator, bemore transparent?
And that's what I call accessto agency.
How can I let them see mestruggle?
You know the TV, the projectorgoes down, the bulb's blown.
(27:09):
What do I do?
Put your heads down while I fixthis.
No, let him watch.
You're starting a lesson.
We're going to try somethingnew.
Not sure how it's going to go.
Let's try it together.
I do think one thing that'svery prevalent in ed tech
specifically is it's veryresponsive.
This just came out.
Let's try it.
Guilty, this just came out.
(27:31):
You got to use it.
It's a new thing.
Got to use this.
Got to use that, I hope.
With 2059, I challenge peopleto be less responsive and more
prepared in thinking about wherethis could all go, how this
could all shake out, so that westart to prepare ourselves with
better policy and betterinfrastructure to provide more
(27:54):
access for students.
Fonz Mendoza (27:56):
Excellent.
I definitely agree with that andI hope it just even right now
2025, we can just get into thatright now too as well, because
you know, like you said it's,you see the hype and the buildup
and I think a lot of teachersand I always quote a great guest
that I had, renee Dawson you'vegot your speedboats, you've got
your tugboats and you've gotyour anchors.
(28:17):
One thing that I love that youmentioned, micah, is the way
that you kind of stand back andobserve where, before the tech
was about me, I, what I wantedto do, what I wanted to share,
as opposed to, like youmentioned, later on in my career
, I was like no, no, this isabout you and seeing how the
students let them lead with thetech and let's see how they use
(28:39):
it, let's see how it benefitsthem and how it helps them
enhance, augment or redefineassignments or their submissions
and their learning in thataspect.
So that's something that Ireally love that you mentioned
there that sometimes, as ateacher, it's okay to step back
and obviously, too, it's okay tonot know everything and
sometimes feel vulnerable andallow students to be able to see
(29:02):
that too as well, because thatalso helps them.
Which kind of brings me to thatconcept of access to agency.
Like you mentioned that it'ssomething that's critical to
learners.
Can you just dive in deep alittle bit more into how this
can help educators also and howwe can foster agency for our
students?
Micah Shippee (29:21):
Yeah, in the book I talk a little bit about my
dad and how my dad and I wouldwork on cars together, largely
out of necessity growing up, butI wouldn't say that as a result
of that I learned how to fix acar, because I was the guy
handing all the tools to my dad.
What I learned is that it canbe done, and so his agency, to
(29:41):
repair a vehicle.
I had access to it, I got tosee it, I got to watch it, I got
to experience him, troubleshoothim, struggle, his
intuitiveness.
And providing that to studentsis really kind of cool to allow
them to hear you talk about.
I'm struggling with this.
I was using ChatGPT the otherday and I wrote this paper with
(30:06):
it and I didn't like the way itcame out because it wasn't my
voice struggling out loudtalking about it, and that kind
of prompt and that kind ofnarrative I think is really
going to help students preparethem for their future, which is
so vastly different than ourpast.
Fonz Mendoza (30:23):
I love that and I love that example that you said.
You know allowing them to seethat like, for example, for
example, you learned from yourdad, you had that experience and
, like you know, going back tothat classroom experience, you
know, I know that and there'snothing wrong.
There's several teaching stylesout there.
Some people they do greatlectures and they're up at the
front the whole time but they'reengaging.
There's others that kind ofstand back and say, OK, students
(30:45):
, how about you?
Like, let's flip the learning,and so on.
But I think that's so important,like you mentioned, just for
them to be able to still havethat productive struggle you
still being there and you stillleaving an example, Like I said,
vulnerability, at least in myexperience when I was in the
classroom, when the students sawme like, oh man, this lesson
didn't turn out the way that Iwanted it to turn out, but we
(31:06):
were able to improvise, adaptand overcome and that kind of
led us into well, we couldn'tquite get this done, but this
leads us into this next concept.
So let's start with that andthen we can come back and
revisit this, but they were ableto see that and I think that's
something that is very important, and I love that that you
mentioned this, because I thinksometimes we can get lost so
(31:26):
much with the technology becauseit's just giving them more and
more and more as far as the techis concerned and not really
listening to like, do theyreally need this or how are they
using it, and then, of course,as a teacher, making those
adjustments as needed.
So I think that's fantastic.
Now let's talk a little bithere.
I want to talk about practicalimplementation because I know
(31:49):
your book.
It definitely has a lot ofthings, but I don't want my
listeners to leave the episodewith getting some practical tips
here as well.
So I want to ask you you know,as you discuss different
stakeholders, we always talkabout policymakers,
administrators, educators,students, parents and so on.
They all have different rolesin shaping the future of
education.
(32:09):
So I want to ask you at thistime, which group do you think
faces the greatest challenges inadapting to these changes as
far as AI?
Micah Shippee (32:20):
That's a great question Because the reality of
how it impacts a classroomteacher trying to understand how
to use it.
How do you know who's writingthe paper anymore?
It's not as simple as anauthenticity poll off of Google.
It's nothing like that anymore.
It's more like you know how canwe perhaps adjust strategy.
(32:42):
But those are with adults whohave that skill set.
So I'm worried about that.
But also for students, how dothey make meaning of this new
world?
That, to me, is the scariestpart, because it's under the
radar more.
You know.
It's kind of like studies onscreen time.
You know we study screen time.
Adults are worried about itputting away.
(33:03):
But are we watching every kidto see how long they're on the
screen and do we really know itsimpact?
I think I'm being a little bitunclear, because this is a
really good question.
So I really want to think aboutit Visibly.
I would say I'm going to see ateacher struggle to figure out
how to use AI in the classroom,but in terms of depth, I'm not
going to see the struggle insidea student's head, which is more
dangerous when you can't see it.
Fonz Mendoza (33:28):
That's the part that scares me the most.
Does that make sense?
Yes, no, absolutely.
It absolutely makes sense.
I'm with you on that, 1000%.
Yeah, you're absolutely rightNow.
So that's that question.
So now for some practicalityhere.
For our listeners that are CTOs, that are directors of
technology, you know justclassroom teachers that are in
there, they're with the I wantto ask you, for those that are
(33:49):
listening, can you describe whatyour first recommendations
would be, the first three steps?
Just for maybe somebody who has, who is just needs to make that
decision, but doesn't knowwhere to start because they're
frozen with so much With yourexperience, what would you
recommend be their first threesteps to be able to dive in?
Micah Shippee (34:10):
The first step is to try using this new
technology or new innovationyourself to solve a personal
task.
That's the first thing, nothingto do with school.
I'm at home, I've got to fixsomething.
Try using AI instead ofsearching for a YouTube video
about what I'm trying to fix.
(34:31):
Just try it.
I think that's a fantasticfirst step.
I think we both probablylearned a lot of really cool
tech by using it personally, notwithin a classroom structure.
I think it's really importantto step away from that.
Perhaps a step two.
Let's say how would this problemhave been solved if I hadn't
(34:52):
used this tech?
I personally tried to solve apiece of code.
I was on Blue Sky trying tolook at how Blue Sky can connect
to Google Sheets for anautomation.
Oh, I can judiciously andcautiously use a bot Trying to
figure that out.
And I was working in this codefor like three days and I got on
chat GPT.
Actually, it was Claude.
(35:12):
I was using Claude, anthropicsClaude at the time.
I dropped it into Claude andsaid I can't figure out why this
link won't connect, and itfigured it out in 30 seconds
Done.
So I wasted three days, 30seconds.
The problem is solved.
My step two is to take a stepback.
What's the most valuable thing?
(35:33):
It's time.
If time's that valuable, thenif I can have something solved
my time personally.
Then I start to think about mystep three and after that point
of self-reflection I then startto think about okay, what's a
way I can try this in myclassroom.
That's kind of a safe thing.
It's not a big assessment,maybe it's just a little
(35:54):
formative check, not a summativecheck.
How can I use this formativetrick with my students and see
how this new tech impacts theirunderstanding?
And I think that's a reallyconservative, cautious three
steps.
Fonz Mendoza (36:08):
I love it, Excellent.
Now that brings me to somequestions here that I want to
ask you as far as your personalreflections as you went about
writing your book and doing yourresearch here on 2059.
So I want to ask you because,as both your experience as an
educator and, of course, now thedirector of education solutions
at Samsung, I want to ask youhow your professional journey
(36:31):
has influenced your vision ofeducation's future.
Micah Shippee (36:36):
My professional journey as a subject matter
expert in education at least inmy niche in my middle school
world for a couple of decadeshas informed a big capital W-H-Y
in my head when it comes totech.
Why would I use this, why doesit matter?
And leading with a why insteadof a, what I think is critical
(36:57):
and I've been fortunate enoughto have been able to inform in
my professional life productcreation, product development
from that perspective, how is itactually going to help?
So you think of, like a largeinteractive display.
I've been able to say you don'tjust put the latest AI chatbot
up there and assume that it'sgoing to work, Because if you
(37:18):
put a chatbot up there, theeducator is going to turn around
and have their back to theirstudents and they're going to be
talking to an AI chatbot in away that does not amplify good
instructional practice based onpresence and awareness of the
classroom.
So that's a micro example ofleading with the why based on
what we've done as educators.
Fonz Mendoza (37:40):
Love it.
And the next question I want toask you obviously now, if you
could ensure one idea from yourbook becomes reality in
education systems worldwide.
Which would it be, and why?
Micah Shippee (37:54):
Oh man, the biggest takeaway I want from the
book if I was to pick one, I'vegot a bunch, but if I was to
pick one would be to inspirepeople in education, involved in
education adjacent to education, which is the entire planet, to
(38:14):
start thinking about the future.
Instead of responding to rightnow, let's think about okay, if
we do these next three things,where does this go?
What's down the road in 10years, 20 years, 30 years and 35
years?
Fonz Mendoza (38:25):
Nice, excellent, I love it All right.
Well, before we wrap up and wehit our final, last three
questions I've got a couple ofclosing questions here.
I think we still have a littlebit of time, but I want to ask
you.
You know now your book is acall to action for everybody,
like you just mentioned, that isinvolved in education, or even
those that would be inspiredthat are outside of education as
(38:47):
well.
But I want to ask you what doyou hope that the readers will
do differently after engagingwith 2059?
Micah Shippee (38:57):
Well, I would hope that an educator would be
inspired to know that you havenot been doing it wrong.
Your whole career and the waywe position ourselves in the
classroom, our engagements withour students, are critical
moving forward, and so when webring in new technology, please
rest on what we know to be truefor benefiting children through
(39:21):
the learning journey.
That's one of the big things.
But then I would also say maybewe need to think differently
about what our students willhave to do in the future.
You know, the age of spending40 years in one corporate
organization has changed, sothere's several things our
(39:42):
students are going to have to do.
One is learn how to upskill,learn new job skills.
They're going to have to dothat more than you and I ever
did.
Our students are going to haveto upskill more.
So, teaching them aboutupskilling, they're going to
have to understand how to usehuman intuition.
If that was done today, itwould be.
I generated this XYZ thingletter, perhaps with AI, but man
(40:06):
that doesn't sound like a humanwould speak.
That's using your humanintuition.
That's going to be critical.
It's going to be critical tounderstand how to collaborate,
how to be an editor, how to workwith this program.
How do I say, hey, this codeisn't working, fix it.
And it makes a pitch.
You're like, no, that's not it,fix it again and keep speaking
with this technology.
(40:27):
And then also, being reallycautious about humans in space
and where we are in coordinationwith each other.
I redesigned or used, excuse me, one AI engine with a map.
I put in a map of Paris.
Then I said redesign Paris tobe a perfect city, and it
(40:48):
changed the flow of the sun tobe a straight line, it changed
the streets to be a straight Xand it removed many landmarks,
primarily churches, that scaredme to death.
So being cautious aboutsocietal systems and perhaps
embracing some of that messinessthat is to be human is what I
(41:08):
hope people will be encouragedto do.
Fonz Mendoza (41:12):
That's great, I love it.
Thank you so much, Micah, and Iguess that'll bring me to kind
of my last question that I wantto ask.
So, Micah, the year is 2059.
And guess what?
You and I are on my EdTech Lifeand this will probably be show,
I don't know, maybe 1529.
And so you and I are here, youknow, in our 80s.
(41:35):
So I want to ask you what wouldyou hope to see from your book
and say, wow, you know that thisis what everybody's talking
about.
That I wrote 35 years ago.
What would be the one thingthat you would hope people are
talking about at that time?
Micah Shippee (41:53):
I would hope that the book causes a groundswell
of conversation, not aboutwhether or not Michael was right
, but a conversation about thefuture and about hey, we've got
to think change.
We don't like change, we liketo ignore change.
Change is gross and ugly andnobody got to think change.
We don't like change, we liketo ignore change.
Change is gross and ugly andnobody wants to do that.
But I would hope I encouragepeople to think about change,
(42:14):
not because it impacts us rightnow, but because of how it might
impact our children's childrenand beyond.
Fonz Mendoza (42:21):
Excellent.
Thank you, micah, and that'swonderful and hopefully 2059,
I'll make sure and send thatinvite and that way we can
definitely have thisconversation, my friend, because
it would be wonderful to justsee how this has evolved, where
we're headed and, of course,just because of the work of you
and so many others that are veryinnovative and are out there
(42:42):
just really just bringing somegreat thoughts and ideas to,
like you mentioned, have theseconversations to be able to make
some changes in the positiveway, and I think that that's
something great.
And I applaud you, micah,because, like I said, from the
time that I first met you,you've always been so kind to me
, genuine, authentic, and evenin the conversations that we
have every once in a while,we'll rerun into each other and
(43:05):
I get to be able to amplifyprojects like this that you get
to do.
It's been an amazing experienceand I continue to learn from
you each and every day.
So thank you so much for thefriendship, thank you so much
for being here on the podcastand just thank you so much for
being an inspiration.
I really appreciate you, micah.
Micah Shippee (43:22):
The feeling is mutual, my friend, Always a
pleasure to speak with you.
I look for you when I'm inTexas and it's always great to
find a friendly face and acollaborator.
So thank you.
Fonz Mendoza (43:32):
Absolutely.
Thank you, micah, but before wewrap up, we've got the last
three questions that we alwaysend the show with, so hopefully
you are ready to go here, micah.
As we know, every superhero hasa pain point or a weakness, and
we know that Superman, thatkryptonite, was something that
just weakened him.
And I want to ask you, in thecurrent state of education, what
(43:52):
would you say, is your currentedu kryptonite?
Micah Shippee (43:57):
Oh, it's time, it's absolutely time, not enough
hours in the day.
Fonz Mendoza (44:03):
That's good.
That works out well, because Ithink you and I are in the same
boat right now.
My friend.
All right, so here we go.
Question number two If youcould have a billboard with
anything on it, what would it beand why?
Micah Shippee (44:16):
I would honestly, as vain as it sounds, I'd put
the book cover on it 2059, thefuture of education, just to get
people talking about it.
Fonz Mendoza (44:25):
Love it.
Excellent, I can definitely seethat that's a great billboard.
And then, of course, make sureyou have the QR code sending
them to that Amazon link forsure That'd be fantastic.
All right, and the lastquestion, my friend, is if you
could trade places with anyonefor a single day, who would that
be and why?
Micah Shippee (44:44):
Oh, I have to vindicate someone.
I would switch with Bill Gatesto get to the point in your life
where you have the time and thewherewithal to benefit humanity
and to be thinking aboutproblems that are global and how
you might help people.
Having access to tools thatwould help me to benefit other
(45:11):
people, I think that'd be coolto be Bill Gates for the day.
Fonz Mendoza (45:14):
Excellent, Well, great answers, my friend.
I appreciate you.
Thank you so much again forjoining me and taking a little
part of your day to spend itwith me and get to talk about
your new project.
So everybody again.
2059, the future of educationyes, sir.
Micah Shippee (45:29):
I forgot to mention.
I added the book to my website,so your listeners can get it
for 20% off If they go to thewebsite.
There's a little pop-up thatflashes up.
Just go ahead and enter theemail and they'll have access to
a discount on the book Perfect,excellent.
Fonz Mendoza (45:43):
We will definitely link your website to the show
notes.
That way, everybody can goahead and visit your website and
they can go ahead and get thebook.
Thank you, micah, again forbeing an amazing guest.
Thank you for this greatconversation and for all our
listeners.
Thank you, as always, for allof your support.
We appreciate all the likes,the shares, the follows and if
you haven't followed us yet onsocial media, please make sure
you follow us at MyEdTechLifeand make sure that you jump over
(46:06):
to our YouTube channel.
Subscribe, give us a thumbs up.
We definitely appreciate that,as that goes a long way for us
to make sure that our contentcontinues to get dispersed.
And again, I definitely want tothank all our sponsors.
Thank you so much to BookCreator, thank you so much
Yellowdig and EduAid forsponsoring our show and
believing in our mission andthat we get the opportunity to
(46:28):
bring you some amazing guestsand amazing conversations like
we have today.
So thank you for your supportand, my friends, until next time
, don't forget, stay techie.
Thank you.
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