August 8, 2025 • 49 mins
AI Optimism with Becky Keene
In this episode of My EdTech Life, I sat down with author, educator, and thought leader Becky Keene to unpack her new book AI Optimism. We tackled everything from AI literacy and data privacy to the SAMR model, edtech skepticism, and what it really takes to shift classroom practice forward, not with hype, but with intention.
Becky shares her “AI Optimism” framework, talks candidly about the realities of edtech implementation, and reminds us all that if AI can do your job, maybe it’s time to teach differently.
Whether you're a classroom teacher, district leader, or edtech developer, this conversation is for you. Dive in and walk away with clarity, strategy, and a renewed sense of agency.
Timestamps
00:00 – Intro & Becky’s background
03:10 – Why she wrote AI Optimism
07:00 – The SAMR model & AI’s role
11:30 – From substitution to redefinition
15:00 – Empowering student agency with AI
17:30 – Rethinking PD for meaningful AI use
23:30 – Higher ed vs. K–12 AI needs
28:30 – Data privacy concerns
31:30 – Equity, access & the freemium problem
35:45 – Can AI replace teachers?
40:00 – Encouraging teacher reflection
42:00 – Final questions & takeaways
📚 Grab Becky’s book AI Optimism + free study guide:
🌐 https://beckykeene.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr. Fonz Mendoza (00:30):
Hello everybody and welcome to another
great episode of my EdTech Life.
Thank you so much for joiningus on this wonderful day and,
wherever it is that you'rejoining us from around the world
, thank you, as always, for allof your support.
We appreciate all the likes,the shares, the follows.
Thank you so much for engagingwith our content and sharing our
content.
Thank you so much to all ournew listeners as well.
(00:52):
We definitely appreciate all ofthat love.
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
As you know, we do what we dofor you to bring you some
amazing conversations andamazing guests and, of course,
as always, today is no different, because we have an amazing
guest and an author that we'regoing to be talking about their
new book release.
So I'm really excited for youto meet Becky Keene.
(01:15):
Becky, how are you doing today?
Becky Keene (01:18):
I'm great Thanks, happy Friday.
We're recording on Friday.
Dr. Fonz Mendoza (01:22):
Yeah, we're recording on Friday, so
hopefully you guys are having awonderful, wonderful Friday as
well.
So thank you, becky, for beinghere.
I'm really excited to connectwith you.
I know I've been a longtimefollower and then scrolling
through TikTok to just beenloving the content that you're
putting out with your TikTokwalks and talking about AI and
just kind of everything leadingup to your book, and you know so
(01:45):
many great things there.
So I'm really excited for allour listeners current listeners
and any new listeners that arejoining to get to connect with
you.
And before we dive into ourgreat conversation, can you give
us a little brief introductionand what your context is within
the education space?
Becky Keene (02:02):
Oh, absolutely.
I am an educator first andforemost.
I still identify as an educator, although I'm not in a
classroom full-time anymore.
I'm not in a district full-time, but that's my heart.
I spent 15 years working for alarge school system south of
Seattle Washington.
I've taught everyone fromlittle tiny eight-year-olds
(02:24):
through adults, and I've spentthe last 10 years specifically
focused on adult professionallearning in education and
primarily ed tech, although mybackground is in literacy.
So it's been a journey.
Dr. Fonz Mendoza (02:38):
Excellent.
So now we're going from thatliteracy now in the ed tech
space to, you know, ai literacyand AI optimism.
Like I mentioned to ouraudience members, we're
definitely going to be talkingabout your new release that we
have right here.
Ai Optimism a guide to yeah inmy hand, and so I'm really
excited for us to talk aboutthis.
So I want to ask you, becky,just to kind of start off the
(03:02):
conversation, is what inspiredyou to write AI Optimism, and
how do you personally define AIOptimism within the education
context?
Becky Keene (03:13):
So I have been involved in the AI movement for
the last few years, like many ofus, and I started to notice
some trends that really botheredme.
I started to notice some trendsthat really bothered me.
I started to notice that overand over on the social media
groups I was a part of, atconferences, I was seeing this
trend toward one of twodirections.
(03:33):
One was oh no, the world isending right, we're all going to
die.
The robots are taking over Justa lot of fear-based
decision-making.
And the other was theoversimplification of this
powerful tool we have in frontof us.
So ed tech companies I'm notgoing to blame educators for
this, but ed tech companiesreally focusing on these very,
(03:55):
very low level uses of AI, youknow, just constantly pushing.
You can make a worksheet, youcan make a quiz, you can make a
lesson plan and unfortunately,that is just really not where I
hope this tool ends in education.
So for me it was kind of moreabout I felt that I had
something to say and I wanted tocapture everything that I had,
(04:20):
you know, kind of been swirlingaround in my head as I go on
walks and walk my dog and dodifferent things.
I kind of had all these thoughtsbrewing and I finally thought,
okay, I want to write somethingabout that, and I had been
familiar with the SAMR model forwhat?
The last 20 years, and so Ijust started really thinking
through.
You know, it's okay to use AIat that S substitution level in
(04:45):
many cases, and that's wheremost of us got started using AI,
but let's not end the journeythere, and so one little fun
fact you might be interested inis I wrote the entire book
before I had a title, becausethe title was not the point.
The book was the point, and so,after everything was written,
(05:06):
my editor and I had someconversations.
I had a couple other closefriend conversations and said,
okay, what do I really want tocall this?
And that's when we came up withAI Optimism as the level, but
it's the content that I wantedto talk about first.
Dr. Fonz Mendoza (05:24):
Love it and you know there's a lot to unpack
there in that statement,because I, along with you,
obviously, you know we have, youknow, very similar circles and
you know, in a lot of the chatsand a lot of the social media
platforms and so on.
Becky Keene (05:43):
And so you know, and even as part of my
dissertation study exactly whatyou mentioned.
Congratulations.
By the way, we have to stop forjust a minute.
You just made a majorannouncement.
I'm so incredibly happy for you.
That is obviously a hugejourney and congratulations.
Dr. Fonz Mendoza (05:57):
Thank you.
Thank you, becky, I reallyappreciate it.
But it really lines up withwhat you said because, as as you
said, there it was like a splitinto like two factions.
You know the oh no, like youknow let's resist this because
of you know, just the unknown,the fear of the unknown, losing
control.
And one of the things that I'velearned in doing PD, and
(06:19):
especially when you're going toimplement something, a lot of
the pushback that you get it'snot so much that you're adding
something to the teacher.
A lot of times it's really theyfeel like they're losing that
control and so maybe for a lotof them it was that loss and
fear of that control that theyonce had.
And then, of course, you've gotthe other speedboat side where
it's like, hey, let's do this,let's go, but, like you
(06:42):
mentioned, at that very lowlevel.
And so I really love what yousaid about the SAMR model,
because I know I had talked toyou a little bit and asking you
about this model and saying,because of the speed and how
fast platforms are evolving andmoving, is this a great model to
still continue using?
And I'm thinking, yes, it stillis, because it doesn't over.
(07:04):
I feel, and this is my opinionand other guests that I have
interviewed that were part ofthe study it was really they're
stating the use of AI has beenso low level where it's just
substitution, and I think youand I can agree that we've seen
a lot of technology that hascome through and you know, ok,
we've got Chromebooks now thathas come through.
(07:26):
And you know, okay, we've gotChromebooks now.
Okay, so now instead of aphysical worksheet, now I'm
going to give it to youdigitally but you're still
annotating.
So I was like, okay, so we'rejust substituting the physical
for that digital and it justseems like we get stuck on that
S and there's some teachers thatare great at augmenting so they
go to that next step.
I recently had a guest on joechristiansen who pretty much
(07:48):
mentioned it's like we're prettymuch just stay stuck on the s
and we never full on go into ther.
So I love that you mentioned ofyour ideas and thinking how the
ed tech companies are kind ofselling it into.
Yes, we're going to help you doyour lesson plans faster.
We're going to help you answeror create emails faster, do
(08:08):
these you know newsletters a lotfaster.
But how is that going toaugment what you're doing?
How is it going to modify, howis it going to, you know,
reinvent or redefine education?
So I want to ask you here Iknow that you emphasize the
Samar model in your book, sotell us a little bit about how
(08:29):
you see that we can take this tothat really next level, or how
ed tech companies can do betterin getting us into the AM and
the R, the augmentation,modification and redefining the
content.
Becky Keene (08:43):
Well, that is totally what the book is about.
So the book starts with the AIoptimism framework, which is
three core principles privacy,praxis and prompting and that
really the whole beginning ofthe book talks about educators
taking a step back from you know, oh, I want to try an AI tool.
(09:05):
That's my least favoritecomment in the whole world.
It's like I want to try thistool and as an instructional
coach someone with 10, a decadeof instructional coaching
experience I would always say no, no, you know, we're not here
to try a tool.
We're here to do best practiceand to think about pedagogy
first.
So the practice part of thatconversation is really that
(09:28):
Think about what you want yourstudents to achieve.
What do you envision thislearning experience looking like
for your students?
Do you envision they all sitdown and fill out a worksheet,
in which case we can end theconversation?
But if you envision them beingengaged and empowered and
excited about what they're doing, then that's something that we
have to set aside and thenconsider tools that keep student
(09:51):
data safe.
That's the privacy component.
And also, how am I using thetools available to really prompt
richly?
And we see a lot of these.
I call them easy button toolsthat are helpful to get started,
absolutely, but they shouldn'tbe where we end with AI, because
all they're doing is churningout predictive, pattern-based
(10:15):
you know very didactic contentin many cases when we could be
using our prompting skills to domore.
So it's starting with thosethree core principles in mind
and then assessing and I have awheel framework and there are
six categories around the edgeof the wheel and then assessing
what do we want to do, and it'sprobably one of those six
(10:36):
categories.
I'm trying to design something,or create something, or support
my learners, or analyze data,right.
So it's thinking about the tasknext and then having a little
self-check on how much do I wantto invite AI to be my assistant
for this task, for mypedagogical purpose.
So AI Optimism is thisdecision-making process that
(11:00):
starts with what I want toachieve, in the middle is what
I'm trying to do, and at the endis the tool that's going to
support me and my students thebest.
And so, to answer your question, with the SAMR model in mind, I
then have a choice Do I want touse a tool that meets my needs,
that sits at a substitutionlevel, or do I want to use that
(11:22):
incremental innovation processto move forward into a MRR, and
that might change what my entireassessment looks like.
That's the point of the R rightRedefinition things that
weren't previously possible, butit might also just be some
small tweaks along the way thathelp me build more student voice
(11:44):
, more engagement, more autonomy, more productivity, more
creativity, more students ascreators.
You know whatever I'm trying toachieve, so for me it's about
that decision along the way.
Dr. Fonz Mendoza (11:57):
Excellent.
I really love that, you know,and I think that's something
that a lot of teachers do havein mind.
But I think sometimes it's justthe excitement of the tool and
working as a digital learningcoordinator for many years is we
bring a platform in and thenall of a sudden, the hype is
(12:18):
gone.
But then what I notice is theynever, or we never, really go in
a lot deeper than thatsuperficial that got them all
excited and it's like, well, ok,we already used it, like OK,
like that the glitz and theglamour and the shine is gone.
And now it's like, hey, well, Iwant to use that app because it
(12:38):
just has like one additionalcomponent to it.
But wait a minute.
I mean, this does the exactsame thing, but have we even
gone deeper into it?
And I think that we've gotteninto that trend where we just
hop from app to app to app toapp and we really never dive in
deep.
And so I love what youmentioned, too, about you know
(12:59):
it's okay to slow down, but seewhere it is that you want to
take your students and see howyou may get them there in a
balanced approach with you know,even no tech, little tech, to
that final product or that techplatform that's really going to
help you modify and redefine anddo something that is that was
(13:21):
once inconceivable.
You know to do that, you know,and I know they mentioned that
in the Samar model.
So I think that's somethingthat, as educators, we really
need to just kind of slow downand say it's okay, like let's
look at the goals first.
And like they always say, youknow, it's like a task before
apps, so let's see what is thetask, what is that final outcome
, what's the process and what isthe final product.
(13:42):
What's the process and what isthe final product and what's the
best tool to get us there.
So I really like that, and so Iwant to kind of talk a little
bit and continue thatconversation, because in the
redefinition chapter you talkabout AI enabling tasks that
were once inconceivable, thingsthat we didn't think about first
, you know, as opposed to justsubstituting conceivable things
(14:03):
that we didn't think about first, you know, as opposed to just
substituting.
But how else might we take thatapp to that next level to
really enhance the learningexperience?
So how do you balance theexcitement of doing the
redefinition and doing somethinginconceivable with the
excitement and the possibilitiesof students, you know, doing
(14:24):
something that they neverthought they could, but also
balance that with theover-reliance of, maybe, a
particular tool for theproblem-solving aspect of it.
Becky Keene (14:36):
Right.
So that really comes down tothe question that I talk about
in the very beginning of thebook, which is helping students
understand how to answer thequestion does this use of AI
limit my learning?
And I know it probably seemsreally like you know, pie in the
(14:56):
sky, like there's no way ourkids are actually going to do
this.
But I think these red light,green light models that we've
adapted to the use of AI, wherewe're kind of telling the
students, okay, you can use it,for you know this purpose for
this assignment, but you can'tuse it for this purpose, for
this assignment I feel like atsome point we have to start
(15:17):
helping them make criticalthinking decisions about the way
I'm trying to use AI right now.
Is that limiting me orsupporting me?
Is it helping me designsomething that would be
previously impossible?
Because maybe I don't know howto code and so I'm not going to
learn that for this assignment,but I'm super excited to create
(15:38):
a website without having tolearn coding.
Or is the point of theassignment to learn coding?
And now I'm skipping past allof that really important
knowledge that I'm going to needfor my career, my goals, my
passions, my hobbies.
So I feel like helping studentsunderstand that question does
this use of AI limit?
My learning is going to setthem up for success beyond the
(16:01):
walls of a classroom, where theyhave a poster on the wall
telling them exactly how andwhen they're supposed to be
using.
Dr. Fonz Mendoza (16:09):
Excellent, I love that and you know that's
such an important question and Ithink oftentimes we don't give
our students enough credit aseducators and immediately you
know a lot of the reactions fromNovember 2022, and even still
to this day it's like, oh,they're just going to cheat,
they're just going to go aheadand do this, and so on and so
forth, and you know, but that'sour assumption.
(16:30):
You know, yes, there will besome students and, just like we
know, there's always, you know,that handful of students that
will try and do as little aspossible to just get what we
need.
But it's because it's like, hey,what is it that we need to get
an A, you know, and they're justgoing to give you the minimum,
maybe even just a C, becauseit's like they're not as engaged
(16:51):
, they're not, you know, reallyjust getting that attention that
they need to enhance thatlearning experience.
So I really like that you talkabout that and that we can
possibly now, you know, with theinformation that is out there,
what can we do better to helpour students?
And I know that that startswith the teachers first.
So, becky, in your experience,since I know that you do a lot
(17:14):
of PD and you're, you know,pretty much everywhere
nationwide, doing a lot oftrainings and you're, you know,
pretty much everywherenationwide doing a lot of
trainings for teachers.
What are some?
Maybe, if you can give us twotips for anybody in a leadership
role in a school that providesPD, what can we do to help our
teachers kind of maybe not thinkjust that like plagiarism, the
(17:37):
eminent, like just the negativeside, and maybe reframe their
thinking to seeing more of thatpotential and then being able to
translate that to students.
Becky Keene (17:48):
That's what AI Optimist is all about.
Right Is acknowledging thechallenges and then still be
willing to press forward.
So two tips.
One tip is I always talk forover 20 years I've been talking
about incremental innovation,disruptive innovation.
(18:08):
It sounds great in a businessmodel but it's not sticky and it
makes it drives a lot of fear.
It feels like a push in ratherthan this.
You know, organic role in this,together mentality.
So I don't love when schoolsystems come in and they're like
you know, rip the bandaid off,we're all doing this thing,
we're going to provide a bunchof PD, it's going to change
(18:30):
everything Like.
No one likes that and it'sgenerally not very effective.
I've seen those things come andgo over time.
So I really, really recommendthat school leaders and
instructional coaches suggestthat incremental innovation
where we're going to honor wherepeople are now, because the
reality is most of our educatorsnationwide in the United States
(18:53):
are doing great work andthey're doing the best they can,
and so you know we don't have alot of people out there just
phoning in, so honor that andthen talk to them about that.
This is part two solving theirproblems, because every educator
has things they would love tofix right Parent communication
or student engagement or theworkload of scoring, you know,
(19:16):
ap and IB sample tests Likethere's something that they're
looking to achieve that is goingto improve their life and
therefore the lives of theirstudents, because they've now
freed up some cognitive space todo more what they love, right,
and so being in that problemsolver mindset again, instead of
(19:38):
recommending an app like hey,you know, we're all going to use
fill the blank, I don't want tolike throw an app under the bus
, but a lot of times thoseimplementations don't fit the
needs of all of our educatorsand all of our classrooms.
So rather, approaching it witha problem solving mindset of
what do you want to achieve andhow can I support you getting
(19:59):
there and then going on thatjourney to figure out what's the
best fit, I think is absolutelya more sticky approach that's
going to honor the expertise inthe room and deliver something
that actually shows.
Dr. Fonz Mendoza (20:14):
Excellent.
I really love that.
I recently had a conversationwith Kyler Cheatham, who is
somebody else that I found onTikTok and she works with
organizations, but she alsoworks with school districts and
she really just echoeseverything that you just said
right now.
It was just, you know, beingshe mentioned making sure that
everybody that needs to be inthe room is in the room, went to
(20:42):
and stating that if 50% of yourroom is not filled with end
users, then you need to kind of,you know, make that happen, to
make sure that there is thatbuy-in, and understanding that
it's not, like you mentioned,trying to put a band-aid, maybe
even over a band-aid, you know,and then over another band-aid,
and so on.
So it's just to making surethat you're finding those
solutions and being very activein the problem-solving process,
and I think that that issomething that is wonderful that
(21:04):
at the very top, you know, forsuperintendents, ctos,
curriculum directors, they allneed to be in that room, because
oftentimes those decisions areleft to one person and they're
based on maybe one teacher whocame back from a conference
who's very excited and says Ineed you to open this up or I
need you to purchase this, but,like you mentioned understanding
(21:27):
that that tool may not be foreverybody and it may not be for
every teacher or maybe evenevery learner.
So, going back to, let's lookat the root of the problem.
What is it that we're trying tosolve and then make the best
decision there for the wholebody there in your district.
So I really like that a lot.
That's just some really greattips and obviously the
(21:50):
experience that you have inspeaking in so many places, even
from k-12 to higher ed, thatdefinitely I love that.
So again, guys, the book is AIOptimism.
Make sure that you check thatout.
But, becky, as we continue ourconversation, I know recently I
saw a post.
I believe you were in UT Austin.
Becky Keene (22:09):
I believe Were you working- Yesterday got a little
bit midnight, okay it wasyesterday.
Dr. Fonz Mendoza (22:14):
So is that?
Were you working with higher edthere?
Becky Keene (22:16):
Yes, we've been working.
So the company I work for, i2e,we've been supporting several
higher ed institutions.
We've spent a lot of time atthe University of Texas, both at
Austin and SISTEM, so Dallas,houston and so on supporting
their AI implementation.
So it's interesting becauseworking with higher education,
(22:38):
we're not really working withfaculty, we're working with
operations, business operations,most of the time right now,
because we're working withpeople who are like this is
going to save me hours a day onmy job, you know those
automations, and so it's not somuch about instruction and
that's been actually really fun,a good growing experience for
(23:00):
me.
Dr. Fonz Mendoza (23:01):
Excellent.
Well, and that's great that Iasked that.
I really thought it was, youknow, with higher ed faculty,
but now that you mentioned this,that it's more of the
operations, you know, I thinklike K-12 and higher ed, we look
at things obviously in thatthrough that education lens, but
then you also see on theoutside.
Now you know that productivityand you're working with
(23:23):
operations and so on.
So I want to ask you you knowwhat?
What are some of the thingsthat you get?
Let's say, a little bit offight back, or you know just a
little bit, uh okay, on theeducation side, what do they
kind of like fight back on, andin the operation side, what do
they kind of like fight back on?
And in the operation side, whatmight be some things that they
(23:43):
fight back on?
Just to kind of get acomparison of the education
space and the operations space.
Becky Keene (23:50):
So, educators, I feel like push back a little bit
on tools that don't really addvalue.
So, for example, I was walkingthrough a conference you know,
you and I both go to the ed techconferences and one of the
vendor booths had a nice bigsign advertising that they were
(24:11):
so excited about changing, likea YouTube video into a
PowerPoint with AI so that youcould share that with your
students.
And I kind of just wanted to behonest, like and that's your
use case.
So, you know, I just walkedthrough that mentality of wait a
(24:31):
minute, we're, we're taking acaptioned, dynamic, personalized
right, I can pause, I canrewind, I can rewatch
instructional piece and we'reusing the best tools we have on
the planet to make it moredidactic, more central, focused,
less accessible, less engaged.
Like, what are we doing?
(24:51):
We're going backwards and Ithink that educators do notice
when a tool comes out and it'slike this is the opposite of
what we want to be doing ineducation.
So there's that pushback of isyour tool actually adding value
or are you just trying to get meto use it?
You know, I like thatskepticism.
Part of AI optimism is goinghere's what's possible.
(25:15):
That's where I want to go Likedon't limit me by again these
easy button options that arejust stuffing me full of more
content to push out to mystudents, and so I love that
approach.
So we're working Cherie withmedical centers, legal teams,
(25:39):
real estate.
They're handling contracts,they're handling donor
information, right, alumnirelations.
There's highly sensitiveinformation flowing through
those AI models, and so for them.
Honestly, we cover out of thegate, like in the first five
minutes at every session.
Here's why this is data secureand here's why that matters for
(26:01):
you.
And, yes, you can use HIPAAcompliant data, or this is HIPAA
compliant those types of things, if they're using the right
tools, because that's incrediblyimportant and nobody wants
their research in a data leak.
Dr. Fonz Mendoza (26:18):
That's very interesting.
And going back to what you said, you know, one of the things
that shocked me at ISTE, as Iwas walking through the
conference, is I was approachedby an app and you know, kind of
like.
I was like is this, is this forreal?
So they kind of talked to meand they said yeah, you know,
have you heard of us?
And I was like no, like, maybelike on social media.
(26:42):
And then so they're reallygiving me the you know their
spiel and everything and they'resaying you know this, you know
application is for teachers andyou know this is what it does.
And this is what they said.
They're like you see, thoseapps over there, those apps help
the teacher before the lessonthere, those apps help the
teacher before the lesson.
These apps over here help theteacher after the lesson, but we
(27:04):
help them during the lesson.
And I was like okay, I'mintrigued, my ears perked up
yeah yeah, yeah.
So I was like, okay, so how doesthat happen?
He's like, well, you downloadan application and then the
teacher puts on their.
I guess their expectation wasthe teacher was going to hang
their phone here and was goingto record while they teach.
And I was like, okay,interesting.
(27:27):
And then I said, well, whatabout?
You know, students speaking atthat time?
You know how is it going toprotect their privacy when names
are being called out or thingsof that sort?
And the voices and they're like, oh, uh, well, the teacher
wears it really close here andso they wouldn't hear, like the
student voices because they'resupposed to be wearing it close
(27:47):
here.
And I said, yeah, but they'restill mentioning, you know,
there's still going to be some,uh, identifiable information
bits there.
And they're like they kind ofjust stayed quiet and then after
that they're like, well, uh,thank you, and that was it, and
I walked out and it was veryscary, you know.
But, like you mentioned, thereare some things where I feel
like wait a minute, like we'vealready done that and we've
(28:07):
already done that.
And, yes, the optimism is there, becky, but sometimes and I
don't know if you feel that way,but I guess maybe the feeling
for me was like we could bedoing so much more.
I guess, maybe the feeling forme was we could be doing so much
more but, like you mentioned it, sometimes I feel like are we
going backwards?
Becky Keene (28:23):
Right, right, like, did we forget about data
privacy when we launched some ofthese tools?
Or did we forget about, like,best practice?
Yeah, I totally agree.
I'm glad you spoke up and I'mglad that you had that lens of
like hang on, really.
Yeah, I had a similarconversation with an app, I mean
(28:45):
when I was at ASU GSB and andthey said, oh, what's the number
one concern you hear about whenyou know, when you're working
with educators, and and I saiddata privacy and and I was
talking to like the COO orsomething, and he said, gosh,
you're the first person to saythat.
And I said who are you talkingto?
Dr. Fonz Mendoza (29:07):
oh my goodness .
Becky Keene (29:08):
I'm glad that there are people making that no for
sure.
Dr. Fonz Mendoza (29:13):
And and then for me that's the biggest thing
too, and but also just the factthat you know you're expecting a
, an educator, to hang a phonearound them and put it so close
right here.
So it's just picking up and andI get it, you know it's the
voice note thing and thenafterwards you, you know it's
going to transcribe and maybegive you or offer suggestions at
(29:34):
least that's what it was saying, that's what I took from it.
But I was like I was like, ohmy gosh, like I don't know about
that, you know, but we'll see,but anyway.
So, becky, just as we kind ofround out this conversation and
maybe as we start kind ofwrapping up, I do want to ask
you your thoughts on this,because I know that this is
something that always there wasa lot of guests and a lot of
(29:59):
authors also that came on, andeven from both sides is the use
of AI.
If you are a school that isvery well funded, well good for
you to provide students thethose same similar tools,
because I mean the cost of it.
You know the talk is it's alwaysgoing to create more of that
(30:31):
divide, not only in the learningaspect, but just obviously in
equity access.
So can you tell us, in yourexperience, what might we be
able to do?
Well, maybe not as educators,but maybe I guess maybe as
platforms.
What might be some advice forplatforms to say, hey, you know
(30:51):
what, we see what you're doing,we don't want that divide.
What can we do to provide equalaccess?
Becky Keene (30:59):
I 100% agree with you that I feel AI has created a
larger equity gap right now inmany scenarios and it's
heartbreaking because AI is theone tool recently that could be
an equalizer.
So my advice to edtech companiesis, and as much as we might
(31:20):
hate the freemium model, I thinkit makes sense to offer a lot
of what is student facing.
So like a school AI or a, youknow, a chat, gbt, gemini,
copilot, whatever the school isusing scenario where the kids
are engaging.
Canva is another example wherethe kids can engage with AI,
(31:41):
offering that free, freelyavailable, right that tells us,
and those are safe for educationtools that you know, we know
have good data privacyagreements.
So for the schools to be ableto at least have an entry point
right, if one teacher or thebuilding itself is like we want
to do this, then they can getset up and get started.
The premium features I get thepeople that are running these
(32:05):
companies have jobs and theyhave, you know, they have
operating expenses and they haveAI costs and so, yes, keep a
paid model if the district wantsanalytics, for example, or, you
know, a dashboard or these deepdive tools that give high level
oversight into what's happeningin the system, but we don't
(32:26):
compromise privacy and we don'tcompromise access.
I love that.
Dr. Fonz Mendoza (32:34):
No, that is wonderful and you know, and the
reason that I asked thatquestion and it was one that
actually wasn't really planned,but it's this morning again, I
woke up to LinkedIn and saw apost that somebody just openly
posted that said hey, you know,we wanted to get a quote for
this specific platform and theysaid it was for 150 students and
(32:55):
50 faculty 38,000.
I was like 38,000.
And so I'm thinking to myselfwhat in all is involved in all
of that.
It's 200 people using this andit's 38,000.
And so my thought process andalso just because going by the
comments, is it based on, ofcourse, usage?
I mean, are you going to getthose users that are going in
(33:17):
there?
And obviously the price oftokens and as that goes up, you
know, obviously platforms needto offset some of those costs,
depending on where they areconnected to, as far as APIs are
concerned and things of thatnature.
So I mean that, from the verybeginning, has been one of my
biggest fears, becky, honestly,is that you have these wonderful
platforms, that you get a quoteand you're like, okay, okay,
(33:42):
this might be doable, but thenthat fear that, based on what
may happen, based on what largelanguage models do.
And as far as the pricing, allof a sudden, from one year to
the next, like I mentioned toyou, the recording app that I
used to use jumped like doublein price, or maybe even two and
a half times, and now thatdistrict is out and they can no
(34:05):
longer use that or, you know,then the company may go out of
business because they can't workwith that model.
So it's definitely veryinteresting and a lot of things
to think about there as far ason the leadership side and
making sure that you do what'sbest.
So thank you so much forsharing your tips too as well,
because that's definitelysomething that's very important.
(34:26):
So my last question to you,becky it also is like, again,
there's always a lot of pushbackand you know you've got the
teachers that are, you know, onone side of the aisle, the other
side of the aisle, and I always, like I said, I always want to
bring just the conversation inthe middle.
Where can we meet?
But my question to you is is Iknow that you advocate for AI as
(34:47):
a partner in education and ofcourse, it's not there to
replace teachers, obviously, butwhat about the other side?
You know that might say well,you know what this might
eventually lead to teacherredundancies.
You know, they kind of justfeel that way like we're just
giving too much to AI.
Well, how might you respond tothem and just say hey, you know,
(35:12):
this is where we're at at nowand this is how we can move
forward?
Becky Keene (35:16):
I think it's a very real fear.
It's happening in certainly allsorts of industries, right
where people are realizing oh Ican do my job in a way that's
either more efficient or morecost effective.
We see it in radiology and art,there's all these field, coding
, there's all these fields.
Right now that that's happeningin Teaching is a predominantly
(35:38):
humanistic field.
But I will say and this is, youknow, maybe not the most
empathetic response, but I wastalking to a teacher recently,
just a couple of months ago,face to face, who said to me
what is it I'm doing that AIcan't replace?
And I just looked at him andsaid, maybe you need to teach
(35:58):
differently.
Like, if that's what you see, ifyou see that everything you're
doing in your day as a teachercould be done by an automated
tool that doesn't know yourstudents, that doesn't build a
relationship, that doesn't careabout them as individuals, that
doesn't see what they need, like, goodness, let's do some
(36:18):
self-reflection, then, and maybehow you can be acting
differently.
So that's not a call to actionor, you know, it's not meant to
be snarky, it's meant to be morethat reflection on if I am
spending most of my time as aneducator asking kids to read
pages out of textbooks or watchvideos or even participate in an
(36:39):
interactive simulation and thengiving them a quiz on it that I
can auto grade, then you'reright, a lot of that can be
outsourced to an AI tool.
And so let's kind of get back tothe root of why many of us
became educators to begin with,and that was because we love the
joy of teaching, of being apart of kids' learning journey,
(37:01):
of seeing that light bulb turnon, of making a difference in
kids' lives.
And maybe the education systemthat we have no control over,
you and I as individuals, hastaken us to a place where we
feel trapped into this model ofyou know, disseminating
information and collectingknowledge, checks, and so it's
(37:22):
such a bigger issue than anindividual teacher.
But I think it can start withindividual teachers kind of
reclaiming that power over.
Like these are things that Ibring to a classroom, uniquely
inhuman, that an AI tool can'treplace.
So it comes back to empowermentand building that optimism of
(37:43):
what do you have to offer no onecan replace.
Dr. Fonz Mendoza (37:47):
I love that, you know, and that's in your
comment.
I take that it really resonateswith me because even along with
my career, there's been timeswhere I was like you know what
things might be getting a littledifficult or what's going on,
what's happening.
But once I turned the mirror onmyself like you mentioned, that
important part ofself-reflection I was like oh,
(38:07):
oh, okay, it's like I'm the onethat needs to change things in
order for my circumstances tochange.
So maybe, like you said, aseducators too, just kind of
reflecting on our currentpractice and what might be
something that we can do to,like you mentioned, reclaim that
joy and reclaim, you know, whatwe used to do and reclaim that
optimism and just going forthand doing what's best for our
(38:30):
students.
And I know that that's thedifficult part too many times
because you've got directivesthat come from the top and they
kind of move down.
And teachers, we definitelylove our autonomy, where we are
the experts in the room, and aslong as that we cover our teaks,
it doesn't matter how we may becovering it.
One of the best advice that Iever got since I came in from
(38:53):
business into education notgoing through the traditional
education route but I had oneleader, one principal always
said look, mr Mendoza, I reallydon't care how you teach the
standard, as long as you staywithin this box.
You know, it's almost like asandbox.
You can play around and dowhatever you like and teach it
(39:16):
however you like, but as long asyou cover what you need to
cover, just throw anything atthem.
If you want to use theChromebooks, if you want to use
Screencastify, if you want touse anything, just go for it.
You know, and of course it'sgoing to look different than
what everybody else is doing.
No-transcript, they enjoyed thelearning, they enjoyed the
(40:00):
projects.
I myself enjoyed what I wasdoing, and you know so,
sometimes it's just also havinga great leader and somebody that
understands that and that canmake a huge difference, for sure
.
Becky Keene (40:11):
That's a good comment.
You're fortunate to have greatleaders.
Dr. Fonz Mendoza (40:13):
Excellent, all right.
Well, becky, before we wrap up,I would love for you to for our
new listeners, or maybe evencurrent listeners that haven't
connected with you yet.
All right, can you please tellus how they might be able to
connect with you on socials, andalso how and where they may be
able to find your book AIOptimism.
Becky Keene (40:33):
Yeah, so everything comes off of BeckyKeenecom If
they want to go there.
It's linked to all my socials.
You can grab me on TikTok orInsta and see the TikTok walks
daily.
There's a book section of thewebsite that has both my books
there, including free studyguide, a couple other
downloadables, and I will alsocall out that book study groups
(40:55):
at schools can book free virtualauthor talks with me.
So that's something I offer aswell and that's all through my
website.
So that's the best way to getme is Beckykeencom.
Dr. Fonz Mendoza (41:06):
Excellent, and we'll make sure we link all of
that in the show notes as well.
So, please, guys, I definitelyrecommend this is definitely a
great resource for you to bringinto your district and, like you
just heard it from Becky,author talks, free virtual
author talks for book studies atyour district, and I think that
this could be something thatwould be wonderful to bring in
(41:27):
that team of.
Again, I would suggest, likeKyler said, if you can have 50%
or more of end users in therealong with your leadership, I
think that would be a greatbalance to get some great
conversations going.
But, becky, thank you so muchfor being on the show today, but
before we wrap up, we alwayslove to end the show with these
last three questions, sohopefully you are ready for
(41:50):
those.
So, as we know, every superherohas a pain point or a weakness,
and for Superman, kryptonitewas his weakness.
So I want to ask you in thecurrent state of education, what
would you say is your currentedu kryptonite?
Becky Keene (42:07):
I hope I understand the question properly, but I
would say the word magic todescribe AI just kills me, and
there's a couple of companieswho do it.
And I don't mean it like at apersonal level.
I just I really, reallystruggle with having educators
(42:27):
feel like it's magic Because,anyway, not to get on the soap
soapbox.
But I feel like it relinquishestheir control over what's
happening and they have so muchcontrol through great prompting
and when we relegate it to magic, it feels mysterious and like
we don't have an influence onwhat happens, so that bothers me
that is.
Dr. Fonz Mendoza (42:47):
that is a great answer and actually it
really resembles an answer thatI had from a previous guest who
also said you know that ifteachers were to understand that
a lot of platforms offer justpre prompts or just you know
that are already there, but ifyou actually show teachers the
(43:07):
power of even if it's just chat,gpt and prompting, that you may
even, I guess, get betterresults than what is there?
Yeah, so those are some of thethings.
So yeah, that is a wonderful,wonderful response and, like I
said, it really lines up withmany of the guests that I've had
(43:28):
here.
All right, so question numbertwo Becky, I want to ask you if
you could have a billboard withanything on it.
What would it be and why?
Becky Keene (43:37):
It would say you can do anything but you can't do
everything.
And the why is because I havethat sign hanging right here in
my office and it's a greatreminder every day of you know,
just because it's possibledoesn't mean we should.
And being able to say no tothings that don't fit my goals
(43:58):
and my priorities.
Also, understanding that if Iwant to go out and achieve
something, I can, and I thinkeveryone deserves that message.
Dr. Fonz Mendoza (44:05):
Excellent.
That is a wonderful message.
Thank you so much.
Definitely very inspiring, andit couldn't have come at a
better time for V2 as well.
So that was right now.
I just smiled and I was like,oh, that hit and it's wonderful.
Thank you so much for sharingthat.
And my last question for you,Becky, is if you could trade
places with one person for asingle day, it doesn't matter
(44:26):
who may be who would that be andwhy?
Becky Keene (44:30):
So this, I really had to put some thought into
this question, but I'm going togo with James Jacinda Ardern,
the New Zealand PM, because I Iam not into politics at all.
If anyone knows me personally,I'm like I'm the most neutral.
I really like to stay out of it, but I do think that there's
(44:53):
probably so much going on thatwe have no idea about Right Like
we'll like blow up angry aboutsomething that happened in the
world and we don't.
We don't know 99 percent of thedecisions that happened and why
, and so and she's doing such anamazing job in a country that
I've gotten to visit and loveand I have great, great
colleague connections there.
So, yeah, I would want to tradeplaces and see what it's like
(45:17):
to be in that role and to be,you know, inundated with very
high level decisions that havetons of context that nobody
knows about, and feeling thepressure of that, and it would
just be interesting and then Iwould enjoy getting out, love it
.
Dr. Fonz Mendoza (45:32):
Love it, Love it.
Great answer, Becky.
Well, Becky, thank you so much.
It has been an honor and apleasure to have you here.
Thank you so much for sharingso many wonderful gems, great
insight, and you know just yourbook, your work, what you've
been working on this whole timeAI Optimism.
So please, to all our audiencemembers, connect with Becky,
(45:53):
Make sure you get the book andthank you so much.
Becky Keene (45:54):
Becky, yeah, I should probably said that just
yeah, we'll definitely just get.
Dr. Fonz Mendoza (45:58):
But hey, we go to your website.
We'll be able to find it.
So we'll be good to go.
But, becky, thank you, Iappreciate you being so gracious
.
It's been great to can beconnected with you for so many
years and see the wonderful workthat you're doing and now now
you know get to have you here onmy show and get to have a
wonderful conversation with you.
Thank you so much for sharingyour knowledge with us and for
(46:18):
all our audience members.
Please make sure you visit ourwebsite at myedtechlife, where
you can check out this amazingepisode and the other 331
episodes now over a five yearspan.
I promise you, guys, if you goback through our library or
archives, you'll definitely finda little something just for you
that you can sprinkle onto whatyou are already doing great.
(46:38):
So please make sure you checkthat out.
And I want to give a big shoutout to our sponsors.
Thank you so much Book Creator,thank you so much EduAid, and
thank you so much Yellowdig forbelieving in us and believing in
our mission of bringing thesewonderful conversations into our
education space to continue togrow and learn together.
So thank you to you all.
So you make sure that you checkthem out too as well.
(46:59):
Their links are gonna be in theshow notes as well.
And, my friends, until nexttime, don't forget, stay techie.
Thank you.
Hello everybody and welcome to another
great episode of my EdTech Life.
Thank you so much for joiningus on this wonderful day and,
wherever it is that you'rejoining us from around the world
, thank you, as always, for allof your support.
We appreciate all the likes,the shares, the follows.
Thank you so much for engagingwith our content and sharing our
content.
Thank you so much to all ournew listeners as well.
(00:52):
We definitely appreciate all ofthat love.
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
As you know, we do what we dofor you to bring you some
amazing conversations andamazing guests and, of course,
as always, today is no different, because we have an amazing
guest and an author that we'regoing to be talking about their
new book release.
So I'm really excited for youto meet Becky Keene.
(01:15):
Becky, how are you doing today?
Becky Keene (01:18):
I'm great Thanks, happy Friday.
We're recording on Friday.
Dr. Fonz Mendoza (01:22):
Yeah, we're recording on Friday, so
hopefully you guys are having awonderful, wonderful Friday as
well.
So thank you, becky, for beinghere.
I'm really excited to connectwith you.
I know I've been a longtimefollower and then scrolling
through TikTok to just beenloving the content that you're
putting out with your TikTokwalks and talking about AI and
just kind of everything leadingup to your book, and you know so
(01:45):
many great things there.
So I'm really excited for allour listeners current listeners
and any new listeners that arejoining to get to connect with
you.
And before we dive into ourgreat conversation, can you give
us a little brief introductionand what your context is within
the education space?
Becky Keene (02:02):
Oh, absolutely.
I am an educator first andforemost.
I still identify as an educator, although I'm not in a
classroom full-time anymore.
I'm not in a district full-time, but that's my heart.
I spent 15 years working for alarge school system south of
Seattle Washington.
I've taught everyone fromlittle tiny eight-year-olds
(02:24):
through adults, and I've spentthe last 10 years specifically
focused on adult professionallearning in education and
primarily ed tech, although mybackground is in literacy.
So it's been a journey.
Dr. Fonz Mendoza (02:38):
Excellent.
So now we're going from thatliteracy now in the ed tech
space to, you know, ai literacyand AI optimism.
Like I mentioned to ouraudience members, we're
definitely going to be talkingabout your new release that we
have right here.
Ai Optimism a guide to yeah inmy hand, and so I'm really
excited for us to talk aboutthis.
So I want to ask you, becky,just to kind of start off the
(03:02):
conversation, is what inspiredyou to write AI Optimism, and
how do you personally define AIOptimism within the education
context?
Becky Keene (03:13):
So I have been involved in the AI movement for
the last few years, like many ofus, and I started to notice
some trends that really botheredme.
I started to notice some trendsthat really bothered me.
I started to notice that overand over on the social media
groups I was a part of, atconferences, I was seeing this
trend toward one of twodirections.
(03:33):
One was oh no, the world isending right, we're all going to
die.
The robots are taking over Justa lot of fear-based
decision-making.
And the other was theoversimplification of this
powerful tool we have in frontof us.
So ed tech companies I'm notgoing to blame educators for
this, but ed tech companiesreally focusing on these very,
(03:55):
very low level uses of AI, youknow, just constantly pushing.
You can make a worksheet, youcan make a quiz, you can make a
lesson plan and unfortunately,that is just really not where I
hope this tool ends in education.
So for me it was kind of moreabout I felt that I had
something to say and I wanted tocapture everything that I had,
(04:20):
you know, kind of been swirlingaround in my head as I go on
walks and walk my dog and dodifferent things.
I kind of had all these thoughtsbrewing and I finally thought,
okay, I want to write somethingabout that, and I had been
familiar with the SAMR model forwhat?
The last 20 years, and so Ijust started really thinking
through.
You know, it's okay to use AIat that S substitution level in
(04:45):
many cases, and that's wheremost of us got started using AI,
but let's not end the journeythere, and so one little fun
fact you might be interested inis I wrote the entire book
before I had a title, becausethe title was not the point.
The book was the point, and so,after everything was written,
(05:06):
my editor and I had someconversations.
I had a couple other closefriend conversations and said,
okay, what do I really want tocall this?
And that's when we came up withAI Optimism as the level, but
it's the content that I wantedto talk about first.
Dr. Fonz Mendoza (05:24):
Love it and you know there's a lot to unpack
there in that statement,because I, along with you,
obviously, you know we have, youknow, very similar circles and
you know, in a lot of the chatsand a lot of the social media
platforms and so on.
Becky Keene (05:43):
And so you know, and even as part of my
dissertation study exactly whatyou mentioned.
Congratulations.
By the way, we have to stop forjust a minute.
You just made a majorannouncement.
I'm so incredibly happy for you.
That is obviously a hugejourney and congratulations.
Dr. Fonz Mendoza (05:57):
Thank you.
Thank you, becky, I reallyappreciate it.
But it really lines up withwhat you said because, as as you
said, there it was like a splitinto like two factions.
You know the oh no, like youknow let's resist this because
of you know, just the unknown,the fear of the unknown, losing
control.
And one of the things that I'velearned in doing PD, and
(06:19):
especially when you're going toimplement something, a lot of
the pushback that you get it'snot so much that you're adding
something to the teacher.
A lot of times it's really theyfeel like they're losing that
control and so maybe for a lotof them it was that loss and
fear of that control that theyonce had.
And then, of course, you've gotthe other speedboat side where
it's like, hey, let's do this,let's go, but, like you
(06:42):
mentioned, at that very lowlevel.
And so I really love what yousaid about the SAMR model,
because I know I had talked toyou a little bit and asking you
about this model and saying,because of the speed and how
fast platforms are evolving andmoving, is this a great model to
still continue using?
And I'm thinking, yes, it stillis, because it doesn't over.
(07:04):
I feel, and this is my opinionand other guests that I have
interviewed that were part ofthe study it was really they're
stating the use of AI has beenso low level where it's just
substitution, and I think youand I can agree that we've seen
a lot of technology that hascome through and you know, ok,
we've got Chromebooks now thathas come through.
(07:26):
And you know, okay, we've gotChromebooks now.
Okay, so now instead of aphysical worksheet, now I'm
going to give it to youdigitally but you're still
annotating.
So I was like, okay, so we'rejust substituting the physical
for that digital and it justseems like we get stuck on that
S and there's some teachers thatare great at augmenting so they
go to that next step.
I recently had a guest on joechristiansen who pretty much
(07:48):
mentioned it's like we're prettymuch just stay stuck on the s
and we never full on go into ther.
So I love that you mentioned ofyour ideas and thinking how the
ed tech companies are kind ofselling it into.
Yes, we're going to help you doyour lesson plans faster.
We're going to help you answeror create emails faster, do
(08:08):
these you know newsletters a lotfaster.
But how is that going toaugment what you're doing?
How is it going to modify, howis it going to, you know,
reinvent or redefine education?
So I want to ask you here Iknow that you emphasize the
Samar model in your book, sotell us a little bit about how
(08:29):
you see that we can take this tothat really next level, or how
ed tech companies can do betterin getting us into the AM and
the R, the augmentation,modification and redefining the
content.
Becky Keene (08:43):
Well, that is totally what the book is about.
So the book starts with the AIoptimism framework, which is
three core principles privacy,praxis and prompting and that
really the whole beginning ofthe book talks about educators
taking a step back from you know, oh, I want to try an AI tool.
(09:05):
That's my least favoritecomment in the whole world.
It's like I want to try thistool and as an instructional
coach someone with 10, a decadeof instructional coaching
experience I would always say no, no, you know, we're not here
to try a tool.
We're here to do best practiceand to think about pedagogy
first.
So the practice part of thatconversation is really that
(09:28):
Think about what you want yourstudents to achieve.
What do you envision thislearning experience looking like
for your students?
Do you envision they all sitdown and fill out a worksheet,
in which case we can end theconversation?
But if you envision them beingengaged and empowered and
excited about what they're doing, then that's something that we
have to set aside and thenconsider tools that keep student
(09:51):
data safe.
That's the privacy component.
And also, how am I using thetools available to really prompt
richly?
And we see a lot of these.
I call them easy button toolsthat are helpful to get started,
absolutely, but they shouldn'tbe where we end with AI, because
all they're doing is churningout predictive, pattern-based
(10:15):
you know very didactic contentin many cases when we could be
using our prompting skills to domore.
So it's starting with thosethree core principles in mind
and then assessing and I have awheel framework and there are
six categories around the edgeof the wheel and then assessing
what do we want to do, and it'sprobably one of those six
(10:36):
categories.
I'm trying to design something,or create something, or support
my learners, or analyze data,right.
So it's thinking about the tasknext and then having a little
self-check on how much do I wantto invite AI to be my assistant
for this task, for mypedagogical purpose.
So AI Optimism is thisdecision-making process that
(11:00):
starts with what I want toachieve, in the middle is what
I'm trying to do, and at the endis the tool that's going to
support me and my students thebest.
And so, to answer your question, with the SAMR model in mind, I
then have a choice Do I want touse a tool that meets my needs,
that sits at a substitutionlevel, or do I want to use that
(11:22):
incremental innovation processto move forward into a MRR, and
that might change what my entireassessment looks like.
That's the point of the R rightRedefinition things that
weren't previously possible, butit might also just be some
small tweaks along the way thathelp me build more student voice
(11:44):
, more engagement, more autonomy, more productivity, more
creativity, more students ascreators.
You know whatever I'm trying toachieve, so for me it's about
that decision along the way.
Dr. Fonz Mendoza (11:57):
Excellent.
I really love that, you know,and I think that's something
that a lot of teachers do havein mind.
But I think sometimes it's justthe excitement of the tool and
working as a digital learningcoordinator for many years is we
bring a platform in and thenall of a sudden, the hype is
(12:18):
gone.
But then what I notice is theynever, or we never, really go in
a lot deeper than thatsuperficial that got them all
excited and it's like, well, ok,we already used it, like OK,
like that the glitz and theglamour and the shine is gone.
And now it's like, hey, well, Iwant to use that app because it
(12:38):
just has like one additionalcomponent to it.
But wait a minute.
I mean, this does the exactsame thing, but have we even
gone deeper into it?
And I think that we've gotteninto that trend where we just
hop from app to app to app toapp and we really never dive in
deep.
And so I love what youmentioned, too, about you know
(12:59):
it's okay to slow down, but seewhere it is that you want to
take your students and see howyou may get them there in a
balanced approach with you know,even no tech, little tech, to
that final product or that techplatform that's really going to
help you modify and redefine anddo something that is that was
(13:21):
once inconceivable.
You know to do that, you know,and I know they mentioned that
in the Samar model.
So I think that's somethingthat, as educators, we really
need to just kind of slow downand say it's okay, like let's
look at the goals first.
And like they always say, youknow, it's like a task before
apps, so let's see what is thetask, what is that final outcome
, what's the process and what isthe final product.
(13:42):
What's the process and what isthe final product and what's the
best tool to get us there.
So I really like that, and so Iwant to kind of talk a little
bit and continue thatconversation, because in the
redefinition chapter you talkabout AI enabling tasks that
were once inconceivable, thingsthat we didn't think about first
, you know, as opposed to justsubstituting conceivable things
(14:03):
that we didn't think about first, you know, as opposed to just
substituting.
But how else might we take thatapp to that next level to
really enhance the learningexperience?
So how do you balance theexcitement of doing the
redefinition and doing somethinginconceivable with the
excitement and the possibilitiesof students, you know, doing
(14:24):
something that they neverthought they could, but also
balance that with theover-reliance of, maybe, a
particular tool for theproblem-solving aspect of it.
Becky Keene (14:36):
Right.
So that really comes down tothe question that I talk about
in the very beginning of thebook, which is helping students
understand how to answer thequestion does this use of AI
limit my learning?
And I know it probably seemsreally like you know, pie in the
(14:56):
sky, like there's no way ourkids are actually going to do
this.
But I think these red light,green light models that we've
adapted to the use of AI, wherewe're kind of telling the
students, okay, you can use it,for you know this purpose for
this assignment, but you can'tuse it for this purpose, for
this assignment I feel like atsome point we have to start
(15:17):
helping them make criticalthinking decisions about the way
I'm trying to use AI right now.
Is that limiting me orsupporting me?
Is it helping me designsomething that would be
previously impossible?
Because maybe I don't know howto code and so I'm not going to
learn that for this assignment,but I'm super excited to create
(15:38):
a website without having tolearn coding.
Or is the point of theassignment to learn coding?
And now I'm skipping past allof that really important
knowledge that I'm going to needfor my career, my goals, my
passions, my hobbies.
So I feel like helping studentsunderstand that question does
this use of AI limit?
My learning is going to setthem up for success beyond the
(16:01):
walls of a classroom, where theyhave a poster on the wall
telling them exactly how andwhen they're supposed to be
using.
Dr. Fonz Mendoza (16:09):
Excellent, I love that and you know that's
such an important question and Ithink oftentimes we don't give
our students enough credit aseducators and immediately you
know a lot of the reactions fromNovember 2022, and even still
to this day it's like, oh,they're just going to cheat,
they're just going to go aheadand do this, and so on and so
forth, and you know, but that'sour assumption.
(16:30):
You know, yes, there will besome students and, just like we
know, there's always, you know,that handful of students that
will try and do as little aspossible to just get what we
need.
But it's because it's like, hey,what is it that we need to get
an A, you know, and they're justgoing to give you the minimum,
maybe even just a C, becauseit's like they're not as engaged
(16:51):
, they're not, you know, reallyjust getting that attention that
they need to enhance thatlearning experience.
So I really like that you talkabout that and that we can
possibly now, you know, with theinformation that is out there,
what can we do better to helpour students?
And I know that that startswith the teachers first.
So, becky, in your experience,since I know that you do a lot
(17:14):
of PD and you're, you know,pretty much everywhere
nationwide, doing a lot oftrainings and you're, you know,
pretty much everywherenationwide doing a lot of
trainings for teachers.
What are some?
Maybe, if you can give us twotips for anybody in a leadership
role in a school that providesPD, what can we do to help our
teachers kind of maybe not thinkjust that like plagiarism, the
(17:37):
eminent, like just the negativeside, and maybe reframe their
thinking to seeing more of thatpotential and then being able to
translate that to students.
Becky Keene (17:48):
That's what AI Optimist is all about.
Right Is acknowledging thechallenges and then still be
willing to press forward.
So two tips.
One tip is I always talk forover 20 years I've been talking
about incremental innovation,disruptive innovation.
(18:08):
It sounds great in a businessmodel but it's not sticky and it
makes it drives a lot of fear.
It feels like a push in ratherthan this.
You know, organic role in this,together mentality.
So I don't love when schoolsystems come in and they're like
you know, rip the bandaid off,we're all doing this thing,
we're going to provide a bunchof PD, it's going to change
(18:30):
everything Like.
No one likes that and it'sgenerally not very effective.
I've seen those things come andgo over time.
So I really, really recommendthat school leaders and
instructional coaches suggestthat incremental innovation
where we're going to honor wherepeople are now, because the
reality is most of our educatorsnationwide in the United States
(18:53):
are doing great work andthey're doing the best they can,
and so you know we don't have alot of people out there just
phoning in, so honor that andthen talk to them about that.
This is part two solving theirproblems, because every educator
has things they would love tofix right Parent communication
or student engagement or theworkload of scoring, you know,
(19:16):
ap and IB sample tests Likethere's something that they're
looking to achieve that is goingto improve their life and
therefore the lives of theirstudents, because they've now
freed up some cognitive space todo more what they love, right,
and so being in that problemsolver mindset again, instead of
(19:38):
recommending an app like hey,you know, we're all going to use
fill the blank, I don't want tolike throw an app under the bus
, but a lot of times thoseimplementations don't fit the
needs of all of our educatorsand all of our classrooms.
So rather, approaching it witha problem solving mindset of
what do you want to achieve andhow can I support you getting
(19:59):
there and then going on thatjourney to figure out what's the
best fit, I think is absolutelya more sticky approach that's
going to honor the expertise inthe room and deliver something
that actually shows.
Dr. Fonz Mendoza (20:14):
Excellent.
I really love that.
I recently had a conversationwith Kyler Cheatham, who is
somebody else that I found onTikTok and she works with
organizations, but she alsoworks with school districts and
she really just echoeseverything that you just said
right now.
It was just, you know, beingshe mentioned making sure that
everybody that needs to be inthe room is in the room, went to
(20:42):
and stating that if 50% of yourroom is not filled with end
users, then you need to kind of,you know, make that happen, to
make sure that there is thatbuy-in, and understanding that
it's not, like you mentioned,trying to put a band-aid, maybe
even over a band-aid, you know,and then over another band-aid,
and so on.
So it's just to making surethat you're finding those
solutions and being very activein the problem-solving process,
and I think that that issomething that is wonderful that
(21:04):
at the very top, you know, forsuperintendents, ctos,
curriculum directors, they allneed to be in that room, because
oftentimes those decisions areleft to one person and they're
based on maybe one teacher whocame back from a conference
who's very excited and says Ineed you to open this up or I
need you to purchase this, but,like you mentioned understanding
(21:27):
that that tool may not be foreverybody and it may not be for
every teacher or maybe evenevery learner.
So, going back to, let's lookat the root of the problem.
What is it that we're trying tosolve and then make the best
decision there for the wholebody there in your district.
So I really like that a lot.
That's just some really greattips and obviously the
(21:50):
experience that you have inspeaking in so many places, even
from k-12 to higher ed, thatdefinitely I love that.
So again, guys, the book is AIOptimism.
Make sure that you check thatout.
But, becky, as we continue ourconversation, I know recently I
saw a post.
I believe you were in UT Austin.
Becky Keene (22:09):
I believe Were you working- Yesterday got a little
bit midnight, okay it wasyesterday.
Dr. Fonz Mendoza (22:14):
So is that?
Were you working with higher edthere?
Becky Keene (22:16):
Yes, we've been working.
So the company I work for, i2e,we've been supporting several
higher ed institutions.
We've spent a lot of time atthe University of Texas, both at
Austin and SISTEM, so Dallas,houston and so on supporting
their AI implementation.
So it's interesting becauseworking with higher education,
(22:38):
we're not really working withfaculty, we're working with
operations, business operations,most of the time right now,
because we're working withpeople who are like this is
going to save me hours a day onmy job, you know those
automations, and so it's not somuch about instruction and
that's been actually really fun,a good growing experience for
(23:00):
me.
Dr. Fonz Mendoza (23:01):
Excellent.
Well, and that's great that Iasked that.
I really thought it was, youknow, with higher ed faculty,
but now that you mentioned this,that it's more of the
operations, you know, I thinklike K-12 and higher ed, we look
at things obviously in thatthrough that education lens, but
then you also see on theoutside.
Now you know that productivityand you're working with
(23:23):
operations and so on.
So I want to ask you you knowwhat?
What are some of the thingsthat you get?
Let's say, a little bit offight back, or you know just a
little bit, uh okay, on theeducation side, what do they
kind of like fight back on, andin the operation side, what do
they kind of like fight back on?
And in the operation side, whatmight be some things that they
(23:43):
fight back on?
Just to kind of get acomparison of the education
space and the operations space.
Becky Keene (23:50):
So, educators, I feel like push back a little bit
on tools that don't really addvalue.
So, for example, I was walkingthrough a conference you know,
you and I both go to the ed techconferences and one of the
vendor booths had a nice bigsign advertising that they were
(24:11):
so excited about changing, likea YouTube video into a
PowerPoint with AI so that youcould share that with your
students.
And I kind of just wanted to behonest, like and that's your
use case.
So, you know, I just walkedthrough that mentality of wait a
(24:31):
minute, we're, we're taking acaptioned, dynamic, personalized
right, I can pause, I canrewind, I can rewatch
instructional piece and we'reusing the best tools we have on
the planet to make it moredidactic, more central, focused,
less accessible, less engaged.
Like, what are we doing?
(24:51):
We're going backwards and Ithink that educators do notice
when a tool comes out and it'slike this is the opposite of
what we want to be doing ineducation.
So there's that pushback of isyour tool actually adding value
or are you just trying to get meto use it?
You know, I like thatskepticism.
Part of AI optimism is goinghere's what's possible.
(25:15):
That's where I want to go Likedon't limit me by again these
easy button options that arejust stuffing me full of more
content to push out to mystudents, and so I love that
approach.
So we're working Cherie withmedical centers, legal teams,
(25:39):
real estate.
They're handling contracts,they're handling donor
information, right, alumnirelations.
There's highly sensitiveinformation flowing through
those AI models, and so for them.
Honestly, we cover out of thegate, like in the first five
minutes at every session.
Here's why this is data secureand here's why that matters for
(26:01):
you.
And, yes, you can use HIPAAcompliant data, or this is HIPAA
compliant those types of things, if they're using the right
tools, because that's incrediblyimportant and nobody wants
their research in a data leak.
Dr. Fonz Mendoza (26:18):
That's very interesting.
And going back to what you said, you know, one of the things
that shocked me at ISTE, as Iwas walking through the
conference, is I was approachedby an app and you know, kind of
like.
I was like is this, is this forreal?
So they kind of talked to meand they said yeah, you know,
have you heard of us?
And I was like no, like, maybelike on social media.
(26:42):
And then so they're reallygiving me the you know their
spiel and everything and they'resaying you know this, you know
application is for teachers andyou know this is what it does.
And this is what they said.
They're like you see, thoseapps over there, those apps help
the teacher before the lessonthere, those apps help the
teacher before the lesson.
These apps over here help theteacher after the lesson, but we
(27:04):
help them during the lesson.
And I was like okay, I'mintrigued, my ears perked up
yeah yeah, yeah.
So I was like, okay, so how doesthat happen?
He's like, well, you downloadan application and then the
teacher puts on their.
I guess their expectation wasthe teacher was going to hang
their phone here and was goingto record while they teach.
And I was like, okay,interesting.
(27:27):
And then I said, well, whatabout?
You know, students speaking atthat time?
You know how is it going toprotect their privacy when names
are being called out or thingsof that sort?
And the voices and they're like, oh, uh, well, the teacher
wears it really close here andso they wouldn't hear, like the
student voices because they'resupposed to be wearing it close
(27:47):
here.
And I said, yeah, but they'restill mentioning, you know,
there's still going to be some,uh, identifiable information
bits there.
And they're like they kind ofjust stayed quiet and then after
that they're like, well, uh,thank you, and that was it, and
I walked out and it was veryscary, you know.
But, like you mentioned, thereare some things where I feel
like wait a minute, like we'vealready done that and we've
(28:07):
already done that.
And, yes, the optimism is there, becky, but sometimes and I
don't know if you feel that way,but I guess maybe the feeling
for me was like we could bedoing so much more.
I guess, maybe the feeling forme was we could be doing so much
more but, like you mentioned it, sometimes I feel like are we
going backwards?
Becky Keene (28:23):
Right, right, like, did we forget about data
privacy when we launched some ofthese tools?
Or did we forget about, like,best practice?
Yeah, I totally agree.
I'm glad you spoke up and I'mglad that you had that lens of
like hang on, really.
Yeah, I had a similarconversation with an app, I mean
(28:45):
when I was at ASU GSB and andthey said, oh, what's the number
one concern you hear about whenyou know, when you're working
with educators, and and I saiddata privacy and and I was
talking to like the COO orsomething, and he said, gosh,
you're the first person to saythat.
And I said who are you talkingto?
Dr. Fonz Mendoza (29:07):
oh my goodness .
Becky Keene (29:08):
I'm glad that there are people making that no for
sure.
Dr. Fonz Mendoza (29:13):
And and then for me that's the biggest thing
too, and but also just the factthat you know you're expecting a
, an educator, to hang a phonearound them and put it so close
right here.
So it's just picking up and andI get it, you know it's the
voice note thing and thenafterwards you, you know it's
going to transcribe and maybegive you or offer suggestions at
(29:34):
least that's what it was saying, that's what I took from it.
But I was like I was like, ohmy gosh, like I don't know about
that, you know, but we'll see,but anyway.
So, becky, just as we kind ofround out this conversation and
maybe as we start kind ofwrapping up, I do want to ask
you your thoughts on this,because I know that this is
something that always there wasa lot of guests and a lot of
(29:59):
authors also that came on, andeven from both sides is the use
of AI.
If you are a school that isvery well funded, well good for
you to provide students thethose same similar tools,
because I mean the cost of it.
You know the talk is it's alwaysgoing to create more of that
(30:31):
divide, not only in the learningaspect, but just obviously in
equity access.
So can you tell us, in yourexperience, what might we be
able to do?
Well, maybe not as educators,but maybe I guess maybe as
platforms.
What might be some advice forplatforms to say, hey, you know
(30:51):
what, we see what you're doing,we don't want that divide.
What can we do to provide equalaccess?
Becky Keene (30:59):
I 100% agree with you that I feel AI has created a
larger equity gap right now inmany scenarios and it's
heartbreaking because AI is theone tool recently that could be
an equalizer.
So my advice to edtech companiesis, and as much as we might
(31:20):
hate the freemium model, I thinkit makes sense to offer a lot
of what is student facing.
So like a school AI or a, youknow, a chat, gbt, gemini,
copilot, whatever the school isusing scenario where the kids
are engaging.
Canva is another example wherethe kids can engage with AI,
(31:41):
offering that free, freelyavailable, right that tells us,
and those are safe for educationtools that you know, we know
have good data privacyagreements.
So for the schools to be ableto at least have an entry point
right, if one teacher or thebuilding itself is like we want
to do this, then they can getset up and get started.
The premium features I get thepeople that are running these
(32:05):
companies have jobs and theyhave, you know, they have
operating expenses and they haveAI costs and so, yes, keep a
paid model if the district wantsanalytics, for example, or, you
know, a dashboard or these deepdive tools that give high level
oversight into what's happeningin the system, but we don't
(32:26):
compromise privacy and we don'tcompromise access.
I love that.
Dr. Fonz Mendoza (32:34):
No, that is wonderful and you know, and the
reason that I asked thatquestion and it was one that
actually wasn't really planned,but it's this morning again, I
woke up to LinkedIn and saw apost that somebody just openly
posted that said hey, you know,we wanted to get a quote for
this specific platform and theysaid it was for 150 students and
(32:55):
50 faculty 38,000.
I was like 38,000.
And so I'm thinking to myselfwhat in all is involved in all
of that.
It's 200 people using this andit's 38,000.
And so my thought process andalso just because going by the
comments, is it based on, ofcourse, usage?
I mean, are you going to getthose users that are going in
(33:17):
there?
And obviously the price oftokens and as that goes up, you
know, obviously platforms needto offset some of those costs,
depending on where they areconnected to, as far as APIs are
concerned and things of thatnature.
So I mean that, from the verybeginning, has been one of my
biggest fears, becky, honestly,is that you have these wonderful
platforms, that you get a quoteand you're like, okay, okay,
(33:42):
this might be doable, but thenthat fear that, based on what
may happen, based on what largelanguage models do.
And as far as the pricing, allof a sudden, from one year to
the next, like I mentioned toyou, the recording app that I
used to use jumped like doublein price, or maybe even two and
a half times, and now thatdistrict is out and they can no
(34:05):
longer use that or, you know,then the company may go out of
business because they can't workwith that model.
So it's definitely veryinteresting and a lot of things
to think about there as far ason the leadership side and
making sure that you do what'sbest.
So thank you so much forsharing your tips too as well,
because that's definitelysomething that's very important.
(34:26):
So my last question to you,becky it also is like, again,
there's always a lot of pushbackand you know you've got the
teachers that are, you know, onone side of the aisle, the other
side of the aisle, and I always, like I said, I always want to
bring just the conversation inthe middle.
Where can we meet?
But my question to you is is Iknow that you advocate for AI as
(34:47):
a partner in education and ofcourse, it's not there to
replace teachers, obviously, butwhat about the other side?
You know that might say well,you know what this might
eventually lead to teacherredundancies.
You know, they kind of justfeel that way like we're just
giving too much to AI.
Well, how might you respond tothem and just say hey, you know,
(35:12):
this is where we're at at nowand this is how we can move
forward?
Becky Keene (35:16):
I think it's a very real fear.
It's happening in certainly allsorts of industries, right
where people are realizing oh Ican do my job in a way that's
either more efficient or morecost effective.
We see it in radiology and art,there's all these field, coding
, there's all these fields.
Right now that that's happeningin Teaching is a predominantly
(35:38):
humanistic field.
But I will say and this is, youknow, maybe not the most
empathetic response, but I wastalking to a teacher recently,
just a couple of months ago,face to face, who said to me
what is it I'm doing that AIcan't replace?
And I just looked at him andsaid, maybe you need to teach
(35:58):
differently.
Like, if that's what you see, ifyou see that everything you're
doing in your day as a teachercould be done by an automated
tool that doesn't know yourstudents, that doesn't build a
relationship, that doesn't careabout them as individuals, that
doesn't see what they need, like, goodness, let's do some
(36:18):
self-reflection, then, and maybehow you can be acting
differently.
So that's not a call to actionor, you know, it's not meant to
be snarky, it's meant to be morethat reflection on if I am
spending most of my time as aneducator asking kids to read
pages out of textbooks or watchvideos or even participate in an
(36:39):
interactive simulation and thengiving them a quiz on it that I
can auto grade, then you'reright, a lot of that can be
outsourced to an AI tool.
And so let's kind of get back tothe root of why many of us
became educators to begin with,and that was because we love the
joy of teaching, of being apart of kids' learning journey,
(37:01):
of seeing that light bulb turnon, of making a difference in
kids' lives.
And maybe the education systemthat we have no control over,
you and I as individuals, hastaken us to a place where we
feel trapped into this model ofyou know, disseminating
information and collectingknowledge, checks, and so it's
(37:22):
such a bigger issue than anindividual teacher.
But I think it can start withindividual teachers kind of
reclaiming that power over.
Like these are things that Ibring to a classroom, uniquely
inhuman, that an AI tool can'treplace.
So it comes back to empowermentand building that optimism of
(37:43):
what do you have to offer no onecan replace.
Dr. Fonz Mendoza (37:47):
I love that, you know, and that's in your
comment.
I take that it really resonateswith me because even along with
my career, there's been timeswhere I was like you know what
things might be getting a littledifficult or what's going on,
what's happening.
But once I turned the mirror onmyself like you mentioned, that
important part ofself-reflection I was like oh,
(38:07):
oh, okay, it's like I'm the onethat needs to change things in
order for my circumstances tochange.
So maybe, like you said, aseducators too, just kind of
reflecting on our currentpractice and what might be
something that we can do to,like you mentioned, reclaim that
joy and reclaim, you know, whatwe used to do and reclaim that
optimism and just going forthand doing what's best for our
(38:30):
students.
And I know that that's thedifficult part too many times
because you've got directivesthat come from the top and they
kind of move down.
And teachers, we definitelylove our autonomy, where we are
the experts in the room, and aslong as that we cover our teaks,
it doesn't matter how we may becovering it.
One of the best advice that Iever got since I came in from
(38:53):
business into education notgoing through the traditional
education route but I had oneleader, one principal always
said look, mr Mendoza, I reallydon't care how you teach the
standard, as long as you staywithin this box.
You know, it's almost like asandbox.
You can play around and dowhatever you like and teach it
(39:16):
however you like, but as long asyou cover what you need to
cover, just throw anything atthem.
If you want to use theChromebooks, if you want to use
Screencastify, if you want touse anything, just go for it.
You know, and of course it'sgoing to look different than
what everybody else is doing.
No-transcript, they enjoyed thelearning, they enjoyed the
(40:00):
projects.
I myself enjoyed what I wasdoing, and you know so,
sometimes it's just also havinga great leader and somebody that
understands that and that canmake a huge difference, for sure
.
Becky Keene (40:11):
That's a good comment.
You're fortunate to have greatleaders.
Dr. Fonz Mendoza (40:13):
Excellent, all right.
Well, becky, before we wrap up,I would love for you to for our
new listeners, or maybe evencurrent listeners that haven't
connected with you yet.
All right, can you please tellus how they might be able to
connect with you on socials, andalso how and where they may be
able to find your book AIOptimism.
Becky Keene (40:33):
Yeah, so everything comes off of BeckyKeenecom If
they want to go there.
It's linked to all my socials.
You can grab me on TikTok orInsta and see the TikTok walks
daily.
There's a book section of thewebsite that has both my books
there, including free studyguide, a couple other
downloadables, and I will alsocall out that book study groups
(40:55):
at schools can book free virtualauthor talks with me.
So that's something I offer aswell and that's all through my
website.
So that's the best way to getme is Beckykeencom.
Dr. Fonz Mendoza (41:06):
Excellent, and we'll make sure we link all of
that in the show notes as well.
So, please, guys, I definitelyrecommend this is definitely a
great resource for you to bringinto your district and, like you
just heard it from Becky,author talks, free virtual
author talks for book studies atyour district, and I think that
this could be something thatwould be wonderful to bring in
(41:27):
that team of.
Again, I would suggest, likeKyler said, if you can have 50%
or more of end users in therealong with your leadership, I
think that would be a greatbalance to get some great
conversations going.
But, becky, thank you so muchfor being on the show today, but
before we wrap up, we alwayslove to end the show with these
last three questions, sohopefully you are ready for
(41:50):
those.
So, as we know, every superherohas a pain point or a weakness,
and for Superman, kryptonitewas his weakness.
So I want to ask you in thecurrent state of education, what
would you say is your currentedu kryptonite?
Becky Keene (42:07):
I hope I understand the question properly, but I
would say the word magic todescribe AI just kills me, and
there's a couple of companieswho do it.
And I don't mean it like at apersonal level.
I just I really, reallystruggle with having educators
(42:27):
feel like it's magic Because,anyway, not to get on the soap
soapbox.
But I feel like it relinquishestheir control over what's
happening and they have so muchcontrol through great prompting
and when we relegate it to magic, it feels mysterious and like
we don't have an influence onwhat happens, so that bothers me
that is.
Dr. Fonz Mendoza (42:47):
that is a great answer and actually it
really resembles an answer thatI had from a previous guest who
also said you know that ifteachers were to understand that
a lot of platforms offer justpre prompts or just you know
that are already there, but ifyou actually show teachers the
(43:07):
power of even if it's just chat,gpt and prompting, that you may
even, I guess, get betterresults than what is there?
Yeah, so those are some of thethings.
So yeah, that is a wonderful,wonderful response and, like I
said, it really lines up withmany of the guests that I've had
(43:28):
here.
All right, so question numbertwo Becky, I want to ask you if
you could have a billboard withanything on it.
What would it be and why?
Becky Keene (43:37):
It would say you can do anything but you can't do
everything.
And the why is because I havethat sign hanging right here in
my office and it's a greatreminder every day of you know,
just because it's possibledoesn't mean we should.
And being able to say no tothings that don't fit my goals
(43:58):
and my priorities.
Also, understanding that if Iwant to go out and achieve
something, I can, and I thinkeveryone deserves that message.
Dr. Fonz Mendoza (44:05):
Excellent.
That is a wonderful message.
Thank you so much.
Definitely very inspiring, andit couldn't have come at a
better time for V2 as well.
So that was right now.
I just smiled and I was like,oh, that hit and it's wonderful.
Thank you so much for sharingthat.
And my last question for you,Becky, is if you could trade
places with one person for asingle day, it doesn't matter
(44:26):
who may be who would that be andwhy?
Becky Keene (44:30):
So this, I really had to put some thought into
this question, but I'm going togo with James Jacinda Ardern,
the New Zealand PM, because I Iam not into politics at all.
If anyone knows me personally,I'm like I'm the most neutral.
I really like to stay out of it, but I do think that there's
(44:53):
probably so much going on thatwe have no idea about Right Like
we'll like blow up angry aboutsomething that happened in the
world and we don't.
We don't know 99 percent of thedecisions that happened and why
, and so and she's doing such anamazing job in a country that
I've gotten to visit and loveand I have great, great
colleague connections there.
So, yeah, I would want to tradeplaces and see what it's like
(45:17):
to be in that role and to be,you know, inundated with very
high level decisions that havetons of context that nobody
knows about, and feeling thepressure of that, and it would
just be interesting and then Iwould enjoy getting out, love it
.
Dr. Fonz Mendoza (45:32):
Love it, Love it.
Great answer, Becky.
Well, Becky, thank you so much.
It has been an honor and apleasure to have you here.
Thank you so much for sharingso many wonderful gems, great
insight, and you know just yourbook, your work, what you've
been working on this whole timeAI Optimism.
So please, to all our audiencemembers, connect with Becky,
(45:53):
Make sure you get the book andthank you so much.
Becky Keene (45:54):
Becky, yeah, I should probably said that just
yeah, we'll definitely just get.
Dr. Fonz Mendoza (45:58):
But hey, we go to your website.
We'll be able to find it.
So we'll be good to go.
But, becky, thank you, Iappreciate you being so gracious
.
It's been great to can beconnected with you for so many
years and see the wonderful workthat you're doing and now now
you know get to have you here onmy show and get to have a
wonderful conversation with you.
Thank you so much for sharingyour knowledge with us and for
(46:18):
all our audience members.
Please make sure you visit ourwebsite at myedtechlife, where
you can check out this amazingepisode and the other 331
episodes now over a five yearspan.
I promise you, guys, if you goback through our library or
archives, you'll definitely finda little something just for you
that you can sprinkle onto whatyou are already doing great.
(46:38):
So please make sure you checkthat out.
And I want to give a big shoutout to our sponsors.
Thank you so much Book Creator,thank you so much EduAid, and
thank you so much Yellowdig forbelieving in us and believing in
our mission of bringing thesewonderful conversations into our
education space to continue togrow and learn together.
So thank you to you all.
So you make sure that you checkthem out too as well.
(46:59):
Their links are gonna be in theshow notes as well.
And, my friends, until nexttime, don't forget, stay techie.
Thank you.
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