September 28, 2025 • 50 mins
Captivate Your Classroom with Dr. Marc Isseks
In this episode of My EdTech Life, I sit down with Dr. Marc Isseks, author of Captivate, to explore how educators can break free from “cognitive entrenchment” and rediscover what it means to truly engage learners. Marc brings over 30 years of classroom, curriculum, and leadership experience, and his insights will challenge the way you think about teaching, technology, and student voice.
We dig into why success can sometimes stop us from growing, how teachers can overcome rigidity and the dreaded phrase “this is the way we’ve always done it,” and why technology should be treated as a microphone, not an encyclopedia. Marc shares stories that will resonate with every educator—from rethinking assessment to giving students choice and voice in their learning.
Whether you’re a classroom teacher, administrator, or EdTech leader, this conversation will spark reflection and give you fresh ideas to amplify student engagement and your own growth as an educator.
Timestamps
00:00 – Welcome to My EdTech Life + Sponsor shoutout
01:00 – Introducing Dr. Marc Isseks and his 31 years in education
04:00 – The story behind Captivate and why he wrote it
08:00 – Breaking cognitive entrenchment in schools
12:00 – Test #3 story: why success can stall innovation
16:00 – Technology shifts: from Tic-Tac-Toe to TikTok
21:00 – Engagement vs. learning: choosing the right apps
25:00 – Tech as a microphone, not an encyclopedia
30:00 – Process over product: lessons from Pixar
35:00 – The three new R’s: remixing, recording, researching
40:00 – Reframing screen time, dopamine, and classrooms
44:00 – Marc’s biggest takeaways for educators
47:00 – Rapid-fire closing questions
48:30 – How to connect with Marc + final thoughts
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr. Fonz Mendoza (00:10):
Hello everybody and welcome to another
great episode of My EdTechLife.
Thank you so much for joiningus on this wonderful day.
And wherever it is that you'rejoining us from around the
world, thank you as always forall of your support.
As always, we appreciate allthe likes, the shares, the
follows.
And I definitely want to give abig shout out to our three
sponsors.
Thank you so much to BookCreator, Eduaid, and Yellowdig
(00:33):
for believing in our mission ofbringing amazing conversations
and amazing guests so that oureducators can continue to grow
both professionally andpersonally.
So thank you so much for yoursupport.
And if you're interested insponsoring the show, please feel
free to reach out atmyedtech.live.
You can go ahead and hit thecontact us and we'll definitely
(00:53):
get back to you.
But I am excited about today.
I have been following our guestfor a while now on TikTok.
And I will say that his contentis very engaging.
It resonates a lot with myexperience.
And as you all know, if you'reuh fans of the show and been
following the show, a lot ofwhat we're going to be talking
(01:14):
about is something that justkind of is a theme around our
show, adaptability, overcomingobstacles, uh, you know, and
things of that sort, andobviously engagement and
engaging our students and justbeing able to continue to grow
as educators.
So I am excited to welcometoday Dr.
Mark Isics to the show.
Dr.
Issex, how are you doing today?
Dr. Marc Isseks (01:35):
I'm doing amazing.
Thanks so much for having meon, and I'm really super excited
for our conversation today.
Dr. Fonz Mendoza (01:41):
Excellent.
Well, I'm excited about today'sconversation.
I know we talked a little bitpre-chat, and I I really, really
truly am excited.
And we're definitely going tobe talking about your book.
And I have a copy of that here,which is called Captivate.
But before we get into this andinto our questions, uh, Dr.
Isix, if you can give us alittle brief introduction and
(02:02):
what your context is in theeducation space.
So all our listeners who aregetting to know you for the
first time today can get to knowyou a little bit better and
connect with you.
Dr. Marc Isseks (02:11):
Absolutely.
Well, first, please call meMark.
Uh, and this is my 31st year ineducation, just starting out my
31st year.
I come from a family ofeducators.
I'm a third generationeducator.
My parents were both educators.
My grandparents and my mom'sside were educators.
My wife is an educator.
So there it's basically thefamily business.
I didn't even know there wasanother profession, to be honest
(02:32):
with you, uh, until maybe likea couple of months ago.
I realized there was anotherway, another path out there.
So um this has been kind of acalling for my whole life and uh
in some ways an expectation.
And uh I learned early on frommy parents about the power of
education to transform lives,and that's been my mission
(02:53):
really for the last 31 years or30 years and a month now, um,
and will continue to be as longas I'm in this space and I'm
really passionate about it.
Uh I've served as a teacher,I've served as a curriculum
coordinator, a schooladministrator, which is my
current role.
Um, but the thing I love mostoutside of just working with the
kids each day is working withteachers and helping them,
(03:15):
supporting them, and really, youknow, trying to help them tap
into their next the next bestversion of them because it
excites them as professionalsand it also makes them just that
much more extraordinary withour kids.
And so it's a it's a win-win.
And um, that's really where mypassion is uh, you know, in in
(03:35):
this phase of my career.
Dr. Fonz Mendoza (03:37):
That is wonderful, and that's exciting.
31 years.
I have just started my 19thyear, and like I mentioned to
you, I mean, growing intodifferent roles from classroom
teacher to digital learning, nowassessments and the learning
continues, which is somethingthat really falls in line with
what we're gonna be talkingabout.
But again, I definitely wantyou to tell our listeners a
(04:00):
little bit more about your bookbecause your book, as I was able
to read through it anddefinitely make some notes.
So for all our viewers that aregonna see this, you can see
that I came prepared with somequestions from the book because
the book is great and I feelthat it was it is a great asset
to my just professional educatortool belt in a lot of ways, as
(04:25):
far as the way that you line thebook up, and essentially, too,
also the importance of, like youmentioned, helping teachers
create that next better versionof themselves and helping them
improvise, adapt, overcome.
And just as you know, withlearning changing so rapidly,
also with the integration ofeducational technology and of
(04:48):
course with AI and all of thatin this space, this is something
that is a wonderful, wonderfulasset.
So tell me the story first andforemost, as far as when the
idea popped up about the book,and you know, just putting your
thoughts on paper, what was theend goal with Captivate?
Dr. Marc Isseks (05:07):
Well, let me just start by saying thank you
so much for all the kind words.
I really appreciate everythingthat you just said about the
book.
And uh the the genesis of thisbook is really trying to
encapsulate the last 30 years ofmy professional journey.
Um, when I started out as asubstitute teacher doing a
long-term um leave replacement,I was absolutely atrocious.
(05:29):
I was horrible.
Uh, I mentioned a story in thebook.
My very first post-observationconference began with the line,
what the F was that?
Um, and they the observerdidn't just say the letter F.
So uh that's how my journeystarted.
And it probably could haveeasily and maybe even should
have ended right there and then,but thankfully it didn't.
(05:50):
And I guess my observer saw sawmaybe just like a little kernel
of something that could bebrought out in me in terms of
talent and ability.
Um and I spent the last 30years since that moment, after I
left that office, really on thejourney, um, climbing that
mountain.
And so Captivate for me isreally the book that I needed to
read for me.
(06:11):
Um, that was really the the thenexus there, uh, or to me, the
the crux of it.
And um, it really was abouttrying to give educators like
hands-on practical applicationto how they can change their
thinking.
Um, there are other books outthere, I'm sure, that give you
maybe like more rubrics and morelike, you know, worksheets and
(06:34):
things of that nature.
This is not that book.
This book is the book where ifyou if you feel like you are in
a place where you want to takethat next step and you just need
someone to kind of crack open adoor in your mind and give you
just that little nudge, um, thisis the book for that.
Um, and I wrote it that waybecause I I want to spark
interest in the in the reader,in the educator, so they can
(06:56):
pursue their own journey.
I don't want to just give thema worksheet because they they'll
use that worksheet, but thenit's the end, then they need
another worksheet for the nextlesson.
Um, it's really more of like ateacher person to fish kind of
uh approach.
And uh so I really wrote it forfor the educator, uh for the
educational leader, for the educfor the educational
practitioner in the classroomeach day, uh, really to just
(07:19):
challenge you to break cognitiveentrenchment because schools
are absolutely grounded incognitive entrenchment.
We literally try to replicatenext year to look exactly like
this year, which looked exactlylike last year, which look
exactly like the year beforethat.
We, if you hold up the calendarfrom this year and the calendar
(07:40):
from last year, you reallycan't tell the difference.
If you dropped all thecalendars on the floor for the
last 20 years, you probablywouldn't be able to pick one up
and know what year it is.
Um, the contract codifiesentrenchment, the grading system
cognif uh codifiesentrenchment, everything that we
do codifies entrenchment.
And um, I really want tochallenge that.
One of the nicknames I gavemyself kind of jokingly, but I'm
(08:05):
trying to live up to it, iseducational pyromaniac, someone
who lights fires onto people whowork and sets fire to systemic
inventions that doesn't that donot.
And um, so part of thatsystemic inventions that don't
necessarily work, um, that'spart of the cognitive
entrenchment.
And I just want to try to justwake people up a little bit just
so they can reflect, because Ido believe that there are, and
(08:27):
we were talking about this inour pre-conversation, there are
talented educators everywhere,everywhere.
And not all of them are giventhe opportunity or the support
to really tap into theirgreatness.
And um, and our students don'tget the best of those people
when they don't have theopportunity to tap into that
greatness and to take risks andto try things.
So I wrote this book trying toinspire people to do exactly
(08:48):
that.
Dr. Fonz Mendoza (08:49):
Excellent.
And you know, in going throughthe book and reading, like I
said, you did a phenomenal job.
And so one thing that I do wantto add and unpack a little bit
is one thing that I did loveabout the book is like you said,
it's not like here's aworksheet, here's a uh QR code
where you can download thisrubric and that rubric and this
rubric and so on.
But it was that personal touchof you sharing your story
(09:11):
alongside research, also.
So there's that research-basedapproach too, and tying that in
because oftentimes you will get,you know, a plethora of books
out there where it's just theauthor's experience, but that
experience may not be the samefor everybody.
But I love the way that youwork this in here with the end
(09:32):
goal of you know teaching one tofish, like you said, and that
and that to me, that picture,um, you know, captivate the
hook.
You're getting them hooked ininto reading it and getting them
hooked in to find that betterversion of you.
So I want to start a little bithere.
Uh, you know, I was I made anote here on page uh 45, and
(09:52):
this really kind of stuck to mebecause as we were talking, as
we go through education, youmentioned the calendars where
everything stays the same.
And as you know, a lot of timesin education, the the words
that I fear the most to hear isthis is the way we've always
done it.
And as educators, like I toldyou in my personal story, like
moving from one role to thenext, it was knowing what would
(10:14):
happen already beginning of theyear, end of the year, fin uh
um, you know, middle of the yearand so on, but now with a new
role, actually stretching thatbrain muscle, doing things
different, finding new ways andinnovative ways to approach and
to continue to grow.
So, one thing that youmentioned here is shedding that
rigidity and shattering thoseillusions.
(10:35):
Like many times what happens isI feel that as teachers, the
more that we want to reinventourselves and maybe say this is
the year, or we have somebodythat comes in and does a
wonderful PD, like I've seen youin your clips, we get that
hope.
You inspire us, you light thatfire, like you mentioned.
But then at the end, when thestress levels come down, and
(10:58):
then when that door opens andall that administrative stuff
comes in, it's we always revertback to our comfort zone and
revert back to this is the waywe've always done it.
So tell me a little bit aboutthat experience in your book and
some ways that our educatorscan overcome that rigidity and
falling back into the way thingsare always done.
Dr. Marc Isseks (11:20):
I br I truly believe that 90, I want to say
98%, maybe 99% of all educatorsout there really want to show up
and do amazing work.
I I struggle to say 100% ofanybody, you're right, but the
overwhelming majority ofeducators want to show up and do
and do amazing work, make buildgreat uh relationships with
(11:40):
kids and be completely,absolutely effective and change
their lives in the best waypossible.
However, when we have success,very often we stop looking for
new ways of doing things.
I tell a story in the bookabout what I call test number
three.
And it was based on a realsituation that happened when my
wife and I went to a parateacherconference for my daughter, our
(12:01):
daughter, and she was uh takingchemistry, and the chemistry
teacher who just could not havebeen more wonderful, more
compassionate.
If I had to have a lineup andpick somebody to be my child's
teacher, I would have picked him10 out of 10 times.
He was a wonderful, wonderfulperson to about 20 years of
educational experience.
And he walked us through thegrade book.
Test one was really good, 91.
(12:21):
Test two was the 88, test threeis tomorrow.
And here's the problem in myexperience, the kids always bomb
test three.
So just be prepared.
And I even like gave them a fewextra easy questions at test
one and two just to pad theaverage a little bit so test
three doesn't like demolishthem.
And we nodded and we said, ofcourse, we're gonna make sure
(12:42):
she studies tonight andeverything else.
And uh by the way, she did failthe test miserably, as did
everybody else in the class ormost of the other kids.
But when the conference wasover, I I looked at my wife and
I said and I said, Why does hekeep giving giving test number
three?
If the kids keep failing, whykeep giving that test that way?
(13:02):
Why teach that unit that wayand give it give that assessment
at the end of that unit?
And it's not because he doesn'twant to do great things,
because he does.
He's a wonderful human beingand a great educator, and he
cares.
What more can you ask?
But he's stuck in a blind spot.
He he has had success over andover again teaching chemistry
over and over again.
So he stops looking for newways of doing things, more
(13:25):
effective ways of doing things.
Um, that's just something thathappens to all of us.
And in in my research for thisbook, I actually came across the
reason why things like thathappen.
It's called the Einstein Fecht,which is based on some research
that was done by uh aresearcher named Abraham Luchens
about 80, 90 years ago.
And essentially, when peoplecome up with uh and have success
(13:46):
with solving a problem, liketeaching chemistry is solving a
problem, right?
I have to figure out how to doit and get through the year, and
he figured it out and he hadall kinds of praise.
He got tenure, he probably hadvery good end-of-year
evaluations, and they gave himthe assignment, the prep over
and over again, which is whichis an attaboy in education.
So now when test three comes,he just gives it because it
(14:07):
comes after test two and itcomes before test four.
And that it's just and thoseare the little things that very
easily can be overlooked.
And I want to try to challengeeducators to reflect on our
practice.
So, do we if do we have our ownversion of test three in the
things that we do?
And if so, how do we tacklethat?
How do we change that?
And this is for administrators,maybe even more so, because
(14:29):
administrators very often arethe reason why educators fall
back into patterns because theyare trying to please what they
think the educator, uh theeducational leader wants.
And very often, if you're aninstructional leader who is so
bottomed down in the day-to-dayoperations of your school that
you don't necessarily have theopportunities to grow and learn
and go to conferences and readbooks and all these other
(14:51):
things, which take a lot oftime, um, then you could also
get stuck in your thinking.
But if you get stuck in yourthinking at that level, then
you're almost guaranteeing thateverybody in your organization
is going to get stuck in thatcognitive trench with you.
Um, and I just want to try togive people an opportunity to
kind of reflect on that and seewhat they can do collectively,
because I do believe thatcollectively educators are just
(15:13):
like outstanding human beingsand very, very capable of being
even greater than they are.
Dr. Fonz Mendoza (15:19):
That's odd.
Yeah, and that is a wonderfulstory that kind of goes back
into what I want to ask now.
And it kind of ties a littlebit also to your story a little
bit, because nowadays, I mean,as as the the teacher was
saying, like, hey, here's testthree, it's gonna get a little
bit more difficult and so on.
But as we know now, you know,technology continuously moves
(15:39):
forward, and obviously with AIbeing introduced into our
classrooms and so on.
And even before that, I mean,just with the use of our cell
phones and things of that sortin the classroom, uh, I one of
the things that I loved here iswhen you talk about the story
about the teacher edition.
And one thing that I reallyliked here, like you wrote in
the book, is you know, today,and maybe teachers don't realize
this, but I if you don't mind,I want to read this from your
(16:01):
book, which says today everychild has the teacher's edition,
except now it's super light andthoroughly all-encompassing,
and educators can no longerbarter knowledge for compliance
because students already haveaccess to that which they seek.
To me, that just kind of hitme, and I was like, oh my
goodness, you know, like youknow, that was kind of very
(16:23):
refreshing to hear, but it evenalso challenged me, and even
reflecting back on my years inthe classroom, you know, and
trying to stay innovative andtrying to, you know, use the
technology and integrate that.
And at some point in the verybeginning, when I first started,
it was like, well, I'm theteacher in the room, I'm the one
that has the most knowledge.
(16:44):
But slowly I started changingthat, but it, you know, and
allowing our students tocontinue to learn.
But tell tell us a little bitabout that.
Umpack that for us a little bitbecause I think this is an
important message that teachersneed to hear nowadays.
Dr. Marc Isseks (17:02):
When I was in college, I worked for
Blockbuster Video for a coupleof years.
It it paid for uh a few roundsat the local pub and a few other
things along the way.
And um, you know, and I made myuh I made my money rewinding
the tapes that people were toolazy to uh to rewind.
And a few years after Igraduated, Blockbuster went out
(17:23):
of business.
They were at the top of thefood chain for years and almost
overnight went out of business.
And it wasn't because theystopped working hard, and it
wasn't because they didn't wantto s succeed, and it wasn't
because they didn't want to makemoney, and it wasn't because
they didn't have all the latestvideos.
They stopped innovating.
And the and the market changed,the customer changed.
(17:45):
They didn't want to go to thevideo store, they wanted the
video store to come to them.
And try as they might, but youknow, they're they were driven
out of business.
Now the problem with schools isthat if we fail to keep up with
the changing customer, we don'tget driven out of business
because of compulsory educationlaws.
The students keep showing upbecause they have to.
(18:09):
But it doesn't mean that themethods that we're using are
relevant to what their needs areand their learning needs are in
this given age and this giventime.
We have experienced, all of us,a seismic shift in how we
consume information, how weshare information, how we
communicate, and honestly how wethink and how our brains work
(18:32):
and our patience and ourattention and everything else.
And it's not small, it'sseismic.
When I started teaching in1995, my greatest competition
was an unsanctioned game oftic-tac-toe.
And today it's tick-tock.
And that's not even close tothe same thing.
And we have to understand that,we have to realize that.
(18:52):
Now, for the top students, thehigh flyers, we can go ahead and
use any methods.
We can use methods from 2025,1925, or 1525.
They're gonna be high flyersand they're gonna be with us the
whole way because they justlove learning.
They love us, they love school,they love everything that we're
doing.
But there's a whole other 95%of our students that aren't
(19:15):
necessarily feeling in that sameway.
But we still need to reach themand we still need to educate
them because they need us.
We don't want them to just relyon TikTok.
That we don't want them to justrely on YouTube, and we don't
want them to just rely on theirfor you page to get an education
in this world.
We want to be the people whoinspire them and drive them to
(19:36):
learn very critical uh skills,thinking, writing, and
mathematics, and everythingelse.
And um, so the only way in mymind that we can do this,
because I've lived through thisshift.
I mean, really, we I my firstclassroom had zero computers.
Today everybody has their ahandheld computer.
Um, it's it's it's a huge shiftin everything.
(19:56):
And I want us to win becauseit's critical, it's mission
critical that we win aseducators.
Um, so that's really the thename of the game for me is like
the the customer has changed,the customer's needs have
changed, and therefore we haveto really be mindful of trying
to explore and experimentdifferent ways to maintain
engagement, maintain attention,capture attention.
(20:20):
Um we used to live in a worldwhere someone could step up to
the front of the room and say,ladies and gentlemen, may I have
your attention, please, andwhat would happen?
The room would quiet.
But today, you can get people'sattention, but you have to go
and take it.
That's the only way.
And the TikTok rule, which isthree seconds, is basically
(20:41):
proof positive of that.
A creator, content creator,like you or I, who puts videos
out on TikTok, we have anywherein the neighborhood of like two
to four seconds, somewherearound three seconds for like
the sweet spot.
And if we don't capturesomeone's attention in three
seconds, they're gone.
And they're never coming back.
They're not scrolling backwardsto see what they missed.
They're moving on.
In classrooms, we were we'vebeen taught as educators that we
(21:05):
have three minutes to get kids'attention in a traditional do
now.
And I'm just gonna call that,I'm calling BS on that.
Just calling BS on that becauseit's not true anymore.
Again, for the 5% of the kids,sure.
But not for the not for themasses, in my opinion.
Dr. Fonz Mendoza (21:20):
Yeah, no, and good point on that, and which
kind of leads me to my nextquestion too, because I know
there's a section in the bookhere where you even pose a
question, and talking a littlebit about engagement here is
that nowadays with so many appsthat are out there, and many
educators go to conferences orthey're on social media, they
get so excited for the next bigapp, and this is the app that's
(21:43):
gonna help me, this is the appthat's gonna solve my problems,
this is the app that is gonna dothis, and so on and so forth,
and then that's gonna engage thestudent even more and help
them.
And sometimes they just we havea tendency to bounce and bounce
from app to app.
So I want to ask you, becausethere was a section in the book
here where you ask a questionand say, you know, how as an
educator should we look at thespecific application and as far
(22:06):
as what metrics are we lookingat?
Are we looking at justengagement?
Because engagement doesn'talways equal learning.
You know, so uh can you, youknow, based on your research and
in your experience, can youtell us a little bit about what
might be some suggestions thatas teachers we should look into
to make sure that we are pickingan application that is going to
(22:28):
be useful and engaging for ourlearner?
Dr. Marc Isseks (22:33):
Well, I really think that it comes down to
approach.
Our approach.
I think if you have a greatapproach, then you could pick
from any app and make any appwork.
I know their committee istrying to figure out do oh,
should we have a Chromebook orshould we have an iPad?
Should we use school magicschool or should we use ChatGPT?
I and and you know, these areall debates, but at the end of
(22:53):
the day, what's the educator'sapproach?
And if you have the rightapproach to your instruction and
you're emphasizing engagementand you're emphasizing capturing
students' attention in theopening few seconds, minutes of
the lesson, and then taking themon a journey.
Um, and if you're addressingand approaching your instruction
that way, then I think youcould you could pretty much use
(23:14):
any app that you want.
Use the one that you're thatgets you excited, use the one
that really you think has themost promise that helps you
address your learning goals.
I don't believe in like pickingan app and then trying to like
let layer on all of yourcurriculum and all of your
instructional methods onto theapp.
Like figure out what it is thatyou want to do and what you
want to accomplish, and thenfind the app that you think will
(23:37):
help you best accomplish thatgoal.
And if you start thinking ofapps that way, instead of, well,
my district is making us usethis, so I guess I have to just
do everything on this.
Well, maybe that's just notgetting you where you want to
be.
And I know that again, thatthis is where I need admin to
like really hear this.
Like, you have to have someflexibility and adaptability and
allow your teachers to have andsupport that growth and risk
(24:00):
taking, um, and just not benecessarily dogmatic about any
particular one way or oneapplication.
Um, I I I think that's thefuture because what I've seen,
and I'm sure you've seen it tooin your role, and especially in
the in the ed tech, you know,part of your your district, is
that when all this technologycame in, we were using the
sophisticated, most powerfultools ever held in human hands,
(24:23):
and we were doing like what Icall like transactions.
Like, here's the worksheet from2005, but now it's digitized.
So I can airdrop it to you,it's magic, and that's
wonderful.
And we don't have to usephotocopies, and that's great.
There are benefits to that, butit's not maximizing the
leverage of the tool.
So it's not bad because I don'tbelieve in like good or bad.
Um, I just believe in degreesof effectiveness.
(24:45):
So it's good, it works, but isthere something better?
Is there something moreeffective or efficient and um
and more powerful?
And that's what I calltransformations.
That's the difference whenyou're using the technology to
allow students to push theirthinking to demonstrate what
they can produce, demonstratetheir understanding of what
(25:06):
they've learned using the tools.
And that's why if you're aneducator who's maybe a little
bit long in a tooth, likemyself, and you're a little bit
afraid of some of thetechnology, that's okay.
If your approach is right, thestudents know the technology,
let them use it and wow you.
You don't have to be the masterof the technology.
They could be the master of thetechnology.
You're the master ofinstruction, you're the master
(25:27):
of motivation, you're the masterof inspiration.
Let that be your skill set,your tools, your tools, and let
the students run crazy with thetechnology in the best way
possible.
Dr. Fonz Mendoza (25:37):
Absolutely.
Oh, I love everything that yousaid there because there's so
much to unpack.
And it kind of goes along theline with the next thing that I
want to mention, and somethingthat I know was very near and
dear to me when I was in theclassroom was always allowing
students uh and amplifying theirvoice, allowing them to share
their learning with me.
And like you said, it wasreally, I was just the guide on
the side.
(25:57):
I was there to helptroubleshoot in the sense of
here's our lesson, I present thelesson, but now here's what you
will be working on as a groupor as an individual.
And it was always, you know, ifyou can, I would give them a
choice.
If you want to use theChromebook, you can.
You have these choices.
Presentation, you can narratesomething, you can write an
(26:18):
essay, you can do a graphic,whatever it is to just
demonstrate your learning to methat you mastered that concept.
And it was so great to have somany students just dive in into
the tools, but really focusingon the learning because I was,
like I mentioned, I was justthere being that learning
engineer and just helping themout.
(26:38):
And which brings me to my nextpoint here, which on page 83
that you wrote in big boldletters that I really love.
It says tech is a microphone,not an encyclopedia.
And this is something that kindof goes in line with what I
always love to share withteachers is allowing for
discourse in the classroom andallowing the students to be able
(26:59):
to podcast or share a video oftheir learning or explaining the
learning to you, explaining aconcept to you, doing those
things.
But I must definitely read thisfirst line because it was very
impactful, too, as well.
Like I said, this book wasdefinitely captivating in the
sense that you had so many greatthings that just challenged me,
or or things that I was justlike, ooh, we definitely need to
(27:22):
hear that out loud.
And this was one of them whereit says, it is a misconception
that young people are zombifiedby their phones.
In actuality, that is oftenwhen when they feel most
connected and alive.
And to me, I was just like, youknow, being able to use an
instrument that they usecontinually where they
(27:44):
themselves go look forengagement to engage within the
learning as well.
And that's why I was a big fanof podcasting in the classroom,
video in the classroom to allowthe students to share their
learning because for me it wasprocess over product.
You know, I man, many times wefocus on the product so much,
(28:05):
and I know you do mention thatin the book, so I definitely
want you to share your insightson that as well.
Dr. Marc Isseks (28:11):
One of my favorite quotes of all time is
by Ed Catmull, and he was theco-founder of Pixar, arguably
one of the most successful filmcompanies in the world,
storytelling, some of thegreatest storytellers in the
entire world.
And he said, early on, all ofour movies suck, and we have to
(28:31):
go from suck to not suck.
And that tells you everything.
It's all about process, it'sall about process.
If they judged the the productof those early drafts of those
or the early editions of thosemovies, they would they would
cut bait, but that's not theirmindset.
Their mindset is, yeah, this isnot really particularly good
(28:53):
right now.
How do we make it great?
How do we make it great?
And everybody's kind of workingin that direction.
And I want schools to have thesame mindset.
There's sort of this finalityor fatality when you get
observed.
It's like, this is it.
This is like my whole year isgoing to be judged on this
40-minute or 45-minute period oftime.
And that's a completely unfairand unrealistic, you know, tool
(29:18):
to use and a system to use.
It has to be an ongoingconversation.
It's about growth, it's aboutthe climb.
I hate that you have quoteMiley Miley Cyrus here, but like
that's it's true.
Um it's the journey that we'reall on, but we all have to be on
it.
And if the administrator comesin as holier than thou, then it
it immediately puts everybody onthe defensive because you have
(29:41):
to like satisfy them or else.
And and I just I have found somuch more success working with
educators than not having thatapproach.
As a matter of fact, one of thethings that I do, and admin,
please feel free to steal this,is I I do what's called a blank
page exercise where I invite aneducator into work with me
before.
Anything like just literallystart with a blank page and sit
(30:02):
down and have a conversation.
Like, okay, what are youthinking about teaching?
How can I help you and supportyou and give you kind of push
you to make this as engaging aswe could possibly make it
together?
And I do that because I want todemonstrate humility, because I
want to, I want the ed theeducator to see how difficult it
is for me.
And this is my my 31st year.
And I'm pretty good at thisstuff too, if I may say.
(30:23):
Like, and I still the firstcouple of versions are terrible.
And we work past it until wefind a thing that gets us both
excited.
And now ever now we're likelike jazz musicians, like
working off of one another.
Um, and I I I would love peopleto have that approach because
first of all, it's not uh it'snot an observation.
So I am not judging you in anyway, and maybe you're judging
(30:45):
me, but that's okay, I canhandle it.
Um and uh, but then we get towork together and then we get to
have conversations.
Then I have I see them in thehall.
Hey, how did how did that go?
Did the kids like this?
And then they say, Oh, Ichanged this and it just went
really, really well.
And then they're empowered andnow they feel great.
And I feel great because I wasable to even do just the
smallest thing to kind of helpthem or point them in a
(31:05):
particular direction.
And so I want to see more kindof more kinds of conversations
about that, like process overproduct, not just with our
students, but working with ourteachers, because we have to
model that as educationalleaders if we have any hope of
that kind of trickling down andbecoming the culture of a
building.
Dr. Fonz Mendoza (31:20):
Oh, I love that.
And that is so wonderful,especially that component that
you mentioned is as anadministrator, really also being
that instructional leader andlearning that humility and that
you are putting yourself outthere too and showing that
vulnerability.
But at the same time, you'reworking together in making that
a lot better and making thatprocess and thinking things
(31:43):
through and iterating.
And I think that is such agreat example for you to have
with that educator because thenthat goes and translates into
the classroom where now studentsare also iterating together.
They're having thesediscussions, they're trying to
uh maximize the learning andthrough that processing that
(32:04):
they do is something that'sfantastic.
And I think that for myself,and and I speak to another
friend uh who is a contentspecialist, we feel like the
classrooms are very quiet in thesense that there is not enough
time to actually allow studentsprocessing time, number one, to
make sure that if they have aquestion, that they can ask that
question, the psychologicalsafety aspect of it too, as
(32:27):
well, where even oftentimes thethe way that the teacher might
approach the class, it doesn'tnecessarily feel like a very
safe space where they may notwant to ask a question and maybe
they later on they'll ask afriend or something.
But there's so many things thatcan change, but it all starts
with these conversations, likeyou said, as an administrative
uh and instructional leader,that gives the confidence to the
(32:51):
teacher as well to be able todo these things in class.
And I absolutely love that.
But getting back to the I havetremendous empathy.
Dr. Marc Isseks (32:58):
I'm so sorry to interrupt, but I have
tremendous I have tremendousempathy for educators and admin
in these situations.
The the curriculum sometimes isoverwhelming.
It's just too dense and wedon't have enough time.
I mean, I social studies was mysubject, and every year there
was more to teach because everyyear there was another year of
history and it was importantstuff and it was relevant stuff.
(33:18):
Um, but we still had to go backand start from the same point
historically, curriculum-wise,every year.
So, like the it became a joke.
Like when I first startedteaching, um, this is wasn't
even 9-11, right?
We didn't we didn't have thinkabout all the things that have
happened the last quarter of acentury.
So now all that, all of thosethings are still taught, plus
everything else, and it justkeeps packing and packing and
(33:40):
packing the curriculum more andmore densely.
It doesn't do anybody anyfavors.
It doesn't help the kids, itdoesn't help the teachers, and
it just puts them in a verydifficult situation where they
feel like their back is upagainst the wall, which is very
often why on the first day ofschool I'll walk the building
many, many times as I dothroughout the year, and I'll
hear teachers, and again,empathy absolutely empathetic to
(34:00):
this, like saying, All right,let's get going.
We have a regence in June.
I'm in New York State, we havea Regence in June, and we don't
have any time to waste.
I'm like, it's the first day ofschool.
Yes.
But but I understand, but I'mempathetic, but but that also
doesn't work.
Dr. Fonz Mendoza (34:15):
Yeah, no, I agree with you.
I remember when we firststarted school, I used to spend
like the whole first week justgetting to know my students.
I didn't even start, andeverybody else would start, but
later on I would just bundle mystandards because I would find
lessons that would go together.
So I was still able to keep uppace, but that whole first week
and really getting to know themand building that community and
(34:36):
building that rapport goes along way.
Of course.
I want to touch on the nextthing that also it just when I
saw this, I was like, oh mygosh, this is so great! Is the
new Rs.
Okay, the three new Rs, aswe're used to reading, writing,
and arithmetic.
But I love hearing that youtalk about remixing, recording,
(34:57):
and researching.
Tell us a little bit aboutthat.
Where did that idea come from?
Dr. Marc Isseks (35:03):
I'm just trying to find ways of framing things
in terms of relevance for kids.
What's funny is students willbe on their phones walking to
school, and on those phones,they are making messages,
creating content that hasmeaning to them.
Now, I'm not saying it's it haslike artistic value or as our
(35:26):
society in any meaningful way,but to them it has meaning and
it has value, and they're tryingto say something.
And how are they doing that?
They're combining all thesedifferent multimodal forms.
They're using sound, they'reusing memes, they're using
images, they're using text,they're using video, they're
using filters, and they arecreating using all of these
things, and they're streamingthem together and making
(35:48):
something that has some kind ofmessage and sending it back and
forth thousands of times a day.
And then we they come into aclassroom and we say, You're
gonna love this, and then wehand them a book that is black
and white, two-dimensional, andall it has is just one form of
you know text, and that's it.
And this is not to say that weshouldn't have students reading.
(36:09):
We need students reading, butwhat I'm saying is let's meet
them where they are.
Where they are is in thismultimodal space.
So if we can introduce ideasusing these multimodal concepts,
we can generate interest thatthey'll want to read the thing
that we want them to read.
And we can help them learn andanalyze and do all the different
things that we want skills-wisewhen it comes to reading,
(36:29):
because it's critical.
So I'm just saying we have tostart being being wiser and
smarter in terms of how weleverage the technology to get
the students to do the thingsthat we all believe truly as
educators are are very, veryimportant.
But if we skip that step and wejust say, well, then just take
out your Shakespeare becauseit's important, um, they they
don't think it's important.
Until we teach them why it'simportant.
(36:53):
And that's why motivating andinspiring kids and giving them
these ways of seeing things andchallenging them.
So now they'll be they'll wantto explore, they'll want to take
that journey with us.
So the the re the remixing andrecording and everything else,
like that was just to thinkabout like this is where
students are on a daily basis.
So why not, if we're gonna meetthem where they are, meet them
(37:14):
where they are great, not justwhere they are.
So if you want them todemonstrate knowledge, you want
them to demonstrateunderstanding, go where they're
amazing, where they couldproduce something incredible.
I had a student named Rao, uh,who was an eighth grader.
I'm going back a ways, and heloved to make videos.
And I was teaching eighth gradehistory, and he asked if he
could do basically do hishomework in video form.
(37:36):
And at first I was like, well,you know, I probably should, but
then I was like, What am Idoing?
And he would create thegreatest short films for his
homework and projects.
And then I would ask him, youknow, do me a favor, take this
and like turn it into an essayfor me.
So at least I could say that Icould see that you could you
could convert and demonstrateyour knowledge, at least in this
(37:56):
written form, because you willhave to write an essay at some
point.
But where his heart was andwhere his passion was and where
his immense talent was was inthis was in this form.
And what happened was the kidslook forward to seeing what
Ralph produced for homework.
And it just it just added tothe it added a whole layer and a
whole dimension to the richnessof that class that year.
(38:18):
Um so but you have to be ableto find that, and you can't find
that if you're just usingconventional traditional
methods.
Dr. Fonz Mendoza (38:23):
No, I love that.
And you know, it kind ofreminds me of a story during my
doctoral coursework.
Uh, one year we I had uh Dr.
Jewitt, so she's listening.
Big shout out to Dr.
Jewitt.
One year she decided to do achoice board.
And, you know, being being inclassrooms and doing ed tech, I
mean, I knew what choice boardswere.
I used them in my classroomsand so on to give my students
(38:44):
choice and voice and how theywant to demonstrate their
learning.
And there was about 20 of us inthe class who were doing a Zoom
session.
You should have seen the deerand headlights look that a lot
of my classmates had becausethey're like, What do you mean a
choice board?
I was just like in the zone.
I was like, Yes, all right.
And then so she was like, Okay,this is you can do this.
(39:05):
Here's a combination of contacthours.
You can do this book study, youcan watch this movie, you can
do this or that.
And I was the very first one.
I was like, Hey, um, can I do apodcast?
And sure enough, she's like,Well, yeah, why not?
So every time that was me, likein all my doctoral classes,
when there was some kind ofproject that could be done, I
(39:26):
would say, can I just do apodcast and a video?
Can I do a podcast and a video?
And they were okay, but that'sbecause that's just my favorite
form of communicating and so on.
So I can definitely relate tothe student story that you're
talking about.
But even as adults, just givingus a choice, you know, and
oftentimes, like you said, thecurriculum tells you exactly
what it is that you need to do,but just to kind of be able to
(39:48):
tweak that, reframe things,remix things in a way that is
relevant to the students andmaking those connections is
something wonderful because thatkind of takes us to the the
next uh big thought that I I sawyou right here is about
obviously screen time anddopamine, but I mean being able
(40:08):
to remix and reinvent lessons ina way that is engaging, that
can also give those studentsthose that little dopamine hit
that they seek when they'relooking at their screens.
Because here the question wasit says the screen promises
dopamine, does the classroom andnow you can even substitute in
there and say, does yourclassroom do I do that?
(40:31):
So I think that that wassomething that was very powerful
there as far as how ouractivities that we create for
our students are are in ourengineering our lessons.
How are we going about doingthat?
Are we just simply takingwhat's there in the platform and
giving that worksheet and justsubmit it to me and that's it?
Or are are there creative waysof being able to remix that so
(40:56):
that our students get engaged?
And I absolutely love that.
I was just like, wow, that thattook me back.
And you know, uh this bookreally honestly is great because
it it challenges you, but itlike you mentioned, it opens up
the your thinking to be able toreframe things in in a different
way and in a not so uh I wouldsay like outlandish way, but in
(41:20):
little incremental things thatcan really like wow make you
kind of think and just analyze,take in and say, Yeah, okay, I
let me try that, and it makesyou feel very comfortable.
So absolutely love this.
And uh Mark, thank you so much.
This has been an awesomeconversation.
(41:41):
But before we go, I I just wantto ask you, you know, bottom
line, you know, for ourlisteners, your book, captivate.
What is what are the two thingsthat are your top two things
that you would hope that areader that takes your book can
glean from that, from yourwriting?
Dr. Marc Isseks (42:00):
Wow, that is maybe the hardest question I've
been thinking.
Um I I think I would love foreducators to walk away with a a
a renewed sense of theimportance of the first few
seconds or minute of the lessonand not rely on sort of this
three-minute convention.
(42:21):
Um I think if we started there,a lot of things would start to
fall into place if we reallytook those first few seconds and
really focused on how am Igoing to to capture my students'
attention.
Because the name of the game isattention.
Uh I'm a huge Gary V fan, andhe's been talking about
attention for a long, long time.
Um and it just couldn't be anytruer in this in the classroom,
(42:43):
just like it is every place elseon Earth.
So um we have to be mindful ofthat.
So that would be one takeawayis just understand the
importance of the opening andreally double down on on the
opening.
And um I guess the other thingwould be just to be able to take
risks and to to be able to pushpast your conventional perhaps
(43:06):
thinking or or your traditionalthinking or your cognitive
entrenchment.
That's your that's the waywe've always done it, thinking,
um, with the understanding thatit's okay and it you didn't do
anything wrong in the past.
You've had success, but whenyou have success, sometimes you
stop looking.
And uh so just to be able to bereflective always and
understand that there is nomountaintop when it comes to
(43:28):
being a great educator.
Uh it is just climbing themountain, and we're all climbing
together.
Um only only people who believein mythologies like tenure and
mastery um are the ones whostop.
The rest of us say, Yeah, yeah,okay, yeah, but I haven't found
it yet.
Um, and they keep going.
And uh, you know, that thoseare the folks that that I really
(43:49):
you know love talking to andget inspired by.
Dr. Fonz Mendoza (43:52):
Love it.
Well, thank you so much forsharing.
And going back to what you weresaying, you're the the very
first thing, page 95.
So for I'm just giving you apreview.
Those of you that are gonnapurchase the book, please make
sure that you purchase.
We will definitely link it inthe bio and show notes, excuse
me, in the show notes as well.
That way you can check it out.
But this is what he's talkingabout is saving, or it says save
(44:13):
the best for first.
So I think that that issomething that is very unique,
and I really like that approach.
But again, I definitelyrecommend this book for all our
listeners.
Please make sure you get it.
It will challenge you, butit'll also give you some great
knowledge nuggets and ways tojust kind of tweak your
practice, things that you cansprinkle up, sprinkle to what
(44:33):
you're already doing great tojust make yourself that much
better.
So, Mark, thank you so much forbeing here with us.
But before we wrap up, I alwayslove to end the show with these
last three questions.
So hopefully you are ready togo.
So, as we know, every superherohas a pain point or a weakness.
So for Superman, kryptonite washis weakness.
(44:54):
So I want to ask you right now,Mark, in the current state of
education, what would you say isyour current edu kryptonite?
Dr. Marc Isseks (45:04):
I think like meanness, meanness in the form
of sometimes the way ideas oryou know, new ideas are met um
with with hostility, withmeanness instead of kind of
empathy and reflection.
Um, that's definitelykryptonite for me because it
just it harkens to, you know, athis is the way we've always
(45:26):
done it reaction from me, andthat that definitely sets me
back.
So if that's what kryptoniteis, which I'm pretty sure it is,
um, that's definitely it forme.
Dr. Fonz Mendoza (45:35):
All right, great answer, Mark.
Thank you.
Question number two is if youcould have a billboard with
anything on it, what would it beand why?
Dr. Marc Isseks (45:45):
I think I would use the quote that you just
brought up before.
Uh you know, tech is amicrophone, not an encyclopedia.
Um just as a reminder, a dailyreminder of what the purpose of
technology and where the truepower of technology is.
It's not in looking things up.
Um, it's in what you can do andwhat you can say and how you
can use your voice to empowerothers.
(46:07):
Um so that would be that wouldbe on my billboard.
Dr. Fonz Mendoza (46:10):
That is so powerful.
Hopefully you'll make that intoa shirt and let me know.
I'll be your first cus, I'll beyour first customer because it
is it's definitely yeah,definitely for sure.
I'll get a hoodie too and a capbecause I love it.
It is great.
All right.
Question number three, Mark.
If you could trade places witha single person for a full day,
(46:30):
who would that be and why?
Dr. Marc Isseks (46:36):
Well, I mentioned Gary V before, so I
think I would choose Gary Vbecause he just he's got he's
like on it.
He's like on everything.
He's got the whole thing abouttechnology down, he's really got
a whole lot about parentingdown.
He has such great insights.
So I would definitely swapplaces with him, although he's a
Jet fan, so I might have torethink that strongly because
I'm a Giant fan.
So that might be a dealbreaker, but it jets aside, I
(46:58):
think it might be Gary Vee for aday, at least right now in
2025.
Dr. Fonz Mendoza (47:02):
All right.
Well, thank you, Mark.
I really appreciate it.
Uh please, before we wrap upagain, officially, Rebbe, I know
I've been saying that a lot oftimes, but please let our
audience know how they may beable to connect with you, where
your website or anything, orwhere it is that they can also
get their hands on your amazingbook.
Dr. Marc Isseks (47:20):
Sure.
You can reach me at markis.com,just my first and last
name.com.
It has a link tree.
So you can find me on all thesocial platforms.
You can find a link to thebook, a link to my podcast, a
link to just about everythingand anything that I that I put
out there in terms of content.
So that would be really thebest place.
Um, markiseks.com,M-A-R-C-I-S-S-E-K-S.com.
Dr. Fonz Mendoza (47:41):
Awesome.
And awesome.
Well, that'll definitely be onthe show notes.
And to all our audience membersand listeners, thank you so
much for your support.
As always, we appreciate you.
Thank you so much for justsharing our content, engaging
with our content.
But please make sure you visitour website at myedtech.life
where you can check out thisamazing episode and the other
(48:03):
337 episodes that we have, whereI promise you you will
definitely find a littlesomething for you that you can
sprinkle onto what you arealready doing great.
And again, a big shout out toour sponsors, Book Creator,
Edu8, and Yellow Dig.
Thank you so much for believingin our mission of bringing
these great conversations intoour education landscape to
(48:23):
continue to grow ourselvesprofessionally and personally as
well.
And my friends, until nexttime, don't forget, stay techie.
Hello everybody and welcome to another
great episode of My EdTechLife.
Thank you so much for joiningus on this wonderful day.
And wherever it is that you'rejoining us from around the
world, thank you as always forall of your support.
As always, we appreciate allthe likes, the shares, the
follows.
And I definitely want to give abig shout out to our three
sponsors.
Thank you so much to BookCreator, Eduaid, and Yellowdig
(00:33):
for believing in our mission ofbringing amazing conversations
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So thank you so much for yoursupport.
And if you're interested insponsoring the show, please feel
free to reach out atmyedtech.live.
You can go ahead and hit thecontact us and we'll definitely
(00:53):
get back to you.
But I am excited about today.
I have been following our guestfor a while now on TikTok.
And I will say that his contentis very engaging.
It resonates a lot with myexperience.
And as you all know, if you'reuh fans of the show and been
following the show, a lot ofwhat we're going to be talking
(01:14):
about is something that justkind of is a theme around our
show, adaptability, overcomingobstacles, uh, you know, and
things of that sort, andobviously engagement and
engaging our students and justbeing able to continue to grow
as educators.
So I am excited to welcometoday Dr.
Mark Isics to the show.
Dr.
Issex, how are you doing today?
Dr. Marc Isseks (01:35):
I'm doing amazing.
Thanks so much for having meon, and I'm really super excited
for our conversation today.
Dr. Fonz Mendoza (01:41):
Excellent.
Well, I'm excited about today'sconversation.
I know we talked a little bitpre-chat, and I I really, really
truly am excited.
And we're definitely going tobe talking about your book.
And I have a copy of that here,which is called Captivate.
But before we get into this andinto our questions, uh, Dr.
Isix, if you can give us alittle brief introduction and
(02:02):
what your context is in theeducation space.
So all our listeners who aregetting to know you for the
first time today can get to knowyou a little bit better and
connect with you.
Dr. Marc Isseks (02:11):
Absolutely.
Well, first, please call meMark.
Uh, and this is my 31st year ineducation, just starting out my
31st year.
I come from a family ofeducators.
I'm a third generationeducator.
My parents were both educators.
My grandparents and my mom'sside were educators.
My wife is an educator.
So there it's basically thefamily business.
I didn't even know there wasanother profession, to be honest
(02:32):
with you, uh, until maybe likea couple of months ago.
I realized there was anotherway, another path out there.
So um this has been kind of acalling for my whole life and uh
in some ways an expectation.
And uh I learned early on frommy parents about the power of
education to transform lives,and that's been my mission
(02:53):
really for the last 31 years or30 years and a month now, um,
and will continue to be as longas I'm in this space and I'm
really passionate about it.
Uh I've served as a teacher,I've served as a curriculum
coordinator, a schooladministrator, which is my
current role.
Um, but the thing I love mostoutside of just working with the
kids each day is working withteachers and helping them,
(03:15):
supporting them, and really, youknow, trying to help them tap
into their next the next bestversion of them because it
excites them as professionalsand it also makes them just that
much more extraordinary withour kids.
And so it's a it's a win-win.
And um, that's really where mypassion is uh, you know, in in
(03:35):
this phase of my career.
Dr. Fonz Mendoza (03:37):
That is wonderful, and that's exciting.
31 years.
I have just started my 19thyear, and like I mentioned to
you, I mean, growing intodifferent roles from classroom
teacher to digital learning, nowassessments and the learning
continues, which is somethingthat really falls in line with
what we're gonna be talkingabout.
But again, I definitely wantyou to tell our listeners a
(04:00):
little bit more about your bookbecause your book, as I was able
to read through it anddefinitely make some notes.
So for all our viewers that aregonna see this, you can see
that I came prepared with somequestions from the book because
the book is great and I feelthat it was it is a great asset
to my just professional educatortool belt in a lot of ways, as
(04:25):
far as the way that you line thebook up, and essentially, too,
also the importance of, like youmentioned, helping teachers
create that next better versionof themselves and helping them
improvise, adapt, overcome.
And just as you know, withlearning changing so rapidly,
also with the integration ofeducational technology and of
(04:48):
course with AI and all of thatin this space, this is something
that is a wonderful, wonderfulasset.
So tell me the story first andforemost, as far as when the
idea popped up about the book,and you know, just putting your
thoughts on paper, what was theend goal with Captivate?
Dr. Marc Isseks (05:07):
Well, let me just start by saying thank you
so much for all the kind words.
I really appreciate everythingthat you just said about the
book.
And uh the the genesis of thisbook is really trying to
encapsulate the last 30 years ofmy professional journey.
Um, when I started out as asubstitute teacher doing a
long-term um leave replacement,I was absolutely atrocious.
(05:29):
I was horrible.
Uh, I mentioned a story in thebook.
My very first post-observationconference began with the line,
what the F was that?
Um, and they the observerdidn't just say the letter F.
So uh that's how my journeystarted.
And it probably could haveeasily and maybe even should
have ended right there and then,but thankfully it didn't.
(05:50):
And I guess my observer saw sawmaybe just like a little kernel
of something that could bebrought out in me in terms of
talent and ability.
Um and I spent the last 30years since that moment, after I
left that office, really on thejourney, um, climbing that
mountain.
And so Captivate for me isreally the book that I needed to
read for me.
(06:11):
Um, that was really the the thenexus there, uh, or to me, the
the crux of it.
And um, it really was abouttrying to give educators like
hands-on practical applicationto how they can change their
thinking.
Um, there are other books outthere, I'm sure, that give you
maybe like more rubrics and morelike, you know, worksheets and
(06:34):
things of that nature.
This is not that book.
This book is the book where ifyou if you feel like you are in
a place where you want to takethat next step and you just need
someone to kind of crack open adoor in your mind and give you
just that little nudge, um, thisis the book for that.
Um, and I wrote it that waybecause I I want to spark
interest in the in the reader,in the educator, so they can
(06:56):
pursue their own journey.
I don't want to just give thema worksheet because they they'll
use that worksheet, but thenit's the end, then they need
another worksheet for the nextlesson.
Um, it's really more of like ateacher person to fish kind of
uh approach.
And uh so I really wrote it forfor the educator, uh for the
educational leader, for the educfor the educational
practitioner in the classroomeach day, uh, really to just
(07:19):
challenge you to break cognitiveentrenchment because schools
are absolutely grounded incognitive entrenchment.
We literally try to replicatenext year to look exactly like
this year, which looked exactlylike last year, which look
exactly like the year beforethat.
We, if you hold up the calendarfrom this year and the calendar
(07:40):
from last year, you reallycan't tell the difference.
If you dropped all thecalendars on the floor for the
last 20 years, you probablywouldn't be able to pick one up
and know what year it is.
Um, the contract codifiesentrenchment, the grading system
cognif uh codifiesentrenchment, everything that we
do codifies entrenchment.
And um, I really want tochallenge that.
One of the nicknames I gavemyself kind of jokingly, but I'm
(08:05):
trying to live up to it, iseducational pyromaniac, someone
who lights fires onto people whowork and sets fire to systemic
inventions that doesn't that donot.
And um, so part of thatsystemic inventions that don't
necessarily work, um, that'spart of the cognitive
entrenchment.
And I just want to try to justwake people up a little bit just
so they can reflect, because Ido believe that there are, and
(08:27):
we were talking about this inour pre-conversation, there are
talented educators everywhere,everywhere.
And not all of them are giventhe opportunity or the support
to really tap into theirgreatness.
And um, and our students don'tget the best of those people
when they don't have theopportunity to tap into that
greatness and to take risks andto try things.
So I wrote this book trying toinspire people to do exactly
(08:48):
that.
Dr. Fonz Mendoza (08:49):
Excellent.
And you know, in going throughthe book and reading, like I
said, you did a phenomenal job.
And so one thing that I do wantto add and unpack a little bit
is one thing that I did loveabout the book is like you said,
it's not like here's aworksheet, here's a uh QR code
where you can download thisrubric and that rubric and this
rubric and so on.
But it was that personal touchof you sharing your story
(09:11):
alongside research, also.
So there's that research-basedapproach too, and tying that in
because oftentimes you will get,you know, a plethora of books
out there where it's just theauthor's experience, but that
experience may not be the samefor everybody.
But I love the way that youwork this in here with the end
(09:32):
goal of you know teaching one tofish, like you said, and that
and that to me, that picture,um, you know, captivate the
hook.
You're getting them hooked ininto reading it and getting them
hooked in to find that betterversion of you.
So I want to start a little bithere.
Uh, you know, I was I made anote here on page uh 45, and
(09:52):
this really kind of stuck to mebecause as we were talking, as
we go through education, youmentioned the calendars where
everything stays the same.
And as you know, a lot of timesin education, the the words
that I fear the most to hear isthis is the way we've always
done it.
And as educators, like I toldyou in my personal story, like
moving from one role to thenext, it was knowing what would
(10:14):
happen already beginning of theyear, end of the year, fin uh
um, you know, middle of the yearand so on, but now with a new
role, actually stretching thatbrain muscle, doing things
different, finding new ways andinnovative ways to approach and
to continue to grow.
So, one thing that youmentioned here is shedding that
rigidity and shattering thoseillusions.
(10:35):
Like many times what happens isI feel that as teachers, the
more that we want to reinventourselves and maybe say this is
the year, or we have somebodythat comes in and does a
wonderful PD, like I've seen youin your clips, we get that
hope.
You inspire us, you light thatfire, like you mentioned.
But then at the end, when thestress levels come down, and
(10:58):
then when that door opens andall that administrative stuff
comes in, it's we always revertback to our comfort zone and
revert back to this is the waywe've always done it.
So tell me a little bit aboutthat experience in your book and
some ways that our educatorscan overcome that rigidity and
falling back into the way thingsare always done.
Dr. Marc Isseks (11:20):
I br I truly believe that 90, I want to say
98%, maybe 99% of all educatorsout there really want to show up
and do amazing work.
I I struggle to say 100% ofanybody, you're right, but the
overwhelming majority ofeducators want to show up and do
and do amazing work, make buildgreat uh relationships with
(11:40):
kids and be completely,absolutely effective and change
their lives in the best waypossible.
However, when we have success,very often we stop looking for
new ways of doing things.
I tell a story in the bookabout what I call test number
three.
And it was based on a realsituation that happened when my
wife and I went to a parateacherconference for my daughter, our
(12:01):
daughter, and she was uh takingchemistry, and the chemistry
teacher who just could not havebeen more wonderful, more
compassionate.
If I had to have a lineup andpick somebody to be my child's
teacher, I would have picked him10 out of 10 times.
He was a wonderful, wonderfulperson to about 20 years of
educational experience.
And he walked us through thegrade book.
Test one was really good, 91.
(12:21):
Test two was the 88, test threeis tomorrow.
And here's the problem in myexperience, the kids always bomb
test three.
So just be prepared.
And I even like gave them a fewextra easy questions at test
one and two just to pad theaverage a little bit so test
three doesn't like demolishthem.
And we nodded and we said, ofcourse, we're gonna make sure
(12:42):
she studies tonight andeverything else.
And uh by the way, she did failthe test miserably, as did
everybody else in the class ormost of the other kids.
But when the conference wasover, I I looked at my wife and
I said and I said, Why does hekeep giving giving test number
three?
If the kids keep failing, whykeep giving that test that way?
(13:02):
Why teach that unit that wayand give it give that assessment
at the end of that unit?
And it's not because he doesn'twant to do great things,
because he does.
He's a wonderful human beingand a great educator, and he
cares.
What more can you ask?
But he's stuck in a blind spot.
He he has had success over andover again teaching chemistry
over and over again.
So he stops looking for newways of doing things, more
(13:25):
effective ways of doing things.
Um, that's just something thathappens to all of us.
And in in my research for thisbook, I actually came across the
reason why things like thathappen.
It's called the Einstein Fecht,which is based on some research
that was done by uh aresearcher named Abraham Luchens
about 80, 90 years ago.
And essentially, when peoplecome up with uh and have success
(13:46):
with solving a problem, liketeaching chemistry is solving a
problem, right?
I have to figure out how to doit and get through the year, and
he figured it out and he hadall kinds of praise.
He got tenure, he probably hadvery good end-of-year
evaluations, and they gave himthe assignment, the prep over
and over again, which is whichis an attaboy in education.
So now when test three comes,he just gives it because it
(14:07):
comes after test two and itcomes before test four.
And that it's just and thoseare the little things that very
easily can be overlooked.
And I want to try to challengeeducators to reflect on our
practice.
So, do we if do we have our ownversion of test three in the
things that we do?
And if so, how do we tacklethat?
How do we change that?
And this is for administrators,maybe even more so, because
(14:29):
administrators very often arethe reason why educators fall
back into patterns because theyare trying to please what they
think the educator, uh theeducational leader wants.
And very often, if you're aninstructional leader who is so
bottomed down in the day-to-dayoperations of your school that
you don't necessarily have theopportunities to grow and learn
and go to conferences and readbooks and all these other
(14:51):
things, which take a lot oftime, um, then you could also
get stuck in your thinking.
But if you get stuck in yourthinking at that level, then
you're almost guaranteeing thateverybody in your organization
is going to get stuck in thatcognitive trench with you.
Um, and I just want to try togive people an opportunity to
kind of reflect on that and seewhat they can do collectively,
because I do believe thatcollectively educators are just
(15:13):
like outstanding human beingsand very, very capable of being
even greater than they are.
Dr. Fonz Mendoza (15:19):
That's odd.
Yeah, and that is a wonderfulstory that kind of goes back
into what I want to ask now.
And it kind of ties a littlebit also to your story a little
bit, because nowadays, I mean,as as the the teacher was
saying, like, hey, here's testthree, it's gonna get a little
bit more difficult and so on.
But as we know now, you know,technology continuously moves
(15:39):
forward, and obviously with AIbeing introduced into our
classrooms and so on.
And even before that, I mean,just with the use of our cell
phones and things of that sortin the classroom, uh, I one of
the things that I loved here iswhen you talk about the story
about the teacher edition.
And one thing that I reallyliked here, like you wrote in
the book, is you know, today,and maybe teachers don't realize
this, but I if you don't mind,I want to read this from your
(16:01):
book, which says today everychild has the teacher's edition,
except now it's super light andthoroughly all-encompassing,
and educators can no longerbarter knowledge for compliance
because students already haveaccess to that which they seek.
To me, that just kind of hitme, and I was like, oh my
goodness, you know, like youknow, that was kind of very
(16:23):
refreshing to hear, but it evenalso challenged me, and even
reflecting back on my years inthe classroom, you know, and
trying to stay innovative andtrying to, you know, use the
technology and integrate that.
And at some point in the verybeginning, when I first started,
it was like, well, I'm theteacher in the room, I'm the one
that has the most knowledge.
(16:44):
But slowly I started changingthat, but it, you know, and
allowing our students tocontinue to learn.
But tell tell us a little bitabout that.
Umpack that for us a little bitbecause I think this is an
important message that teachersneed to hear nowadays.
Dr. Marc Isseks (17:02):
When I was in college, I worked for
Blockbuster Video for a coupleof years.
It it paid for uh a few roundsat the local pub and a few other
things along the way.
And um, you know, and I made myuh I made my money rewinding
the tapes that people were toolazy to uh to rewind.
And a few years after Igraduated, Blockbuster went out
(17:23):
of business.
They were at the top of thefood chain for years and almost
overnight went out of business.
And it wasn't because theystopped working hard, and it
wasn't because they didn't wantto s succeed, and it wasn't
because they didn't want to makemoney, and it wasn't because
they didn't have all the latestvideos.
They stopped innovating.
And the and the market changed,the customer changed.
(17:45):
They didn't want to go to thevideo store, they wanted the
video store to come to them.
And try as they might, but youknow, they're they were driven
out of business.
Now the problem with schools isthat if we fail to keep up with
the changing customer, we don'tget driven out of business
because of compulsory educationlaws.
The students keep showing upbecause they have to.
(18:09):
But it doesn't mean that themethods that we're using are
relevant to what their needs areand their learning needs are in
this given age and this giventime.
We have experienced, all of us,a seismic shift in how we
consume information, how weshare information, how we
communicate, and honestly how wethink and how our brains work
(18:32):
and our patience and ourattention and everything else.
And it's not small, it'sseismic.
When I started teaching in1995, my greatest competition
was an unsanctioned game oftic-tac-toe.
And today it's tick-tock.
And that's not even close tothe same thing.
And we have to understand that,we have to realize that.
(18:52):
Now, for the top students, thehigh flyers, we can go ahead and
use any methods.
We can use methods from 2025,1925, or 1525.
They're gonna be high flyersand they're gonna be with us the
whole way because they justlove learning.
They love us, they love school,they love everything that we're
doing.
But there's a whole other 95%of our students that aren't
(19:15):
necessarily feeling in that sameway.
But we still need to reach themand we still need to educate
them because they need us.
We don't want them to just relyon TikTok.
That we don't want them to justrely on YouTube, and we don't
want them to just rely on theirfor you page to get an education
in this world.
We want to be the people whoinspire them and drive them to
(19:36):
learn very critical uh skills,thinking, writing, and
mathematics, and everythingelse.
And um, so the only way in mymind that we can do this,
because I've lived through thisshift.
I mean, really, we I my firstclassroom had zero computers.
Today everybody has their ahandheld computer.
Um, it's it's it's a huge shiftin everything.
(19:56):
And I want us to win becauseit's critical, it's mission
critical that we win aseducators.
Um, so that's really the thename of the game for me is like
the the customer has changed,the customer's needs have
changed, and therefore we haveto really be mindful of trying
to explore and experimentdifferent ways to maintain
engagement, maintain attention,capture attention.
(20:20):
Um we used to live in a worldwhere someone could step up to
the front of the room and say,ladies and gentlemen, may I have
your attention, please, andwhat would happen?
The room would quiet.
But today, you can get people'sattention, but you have to go
and take it.
That's the only way.
And the TikTok rule, which isthree seconds, is basically
(20:41):
proof positive of that.
A creator, content creator,like you or I, who puts videos
out on TikTok, we have anywherein the neighborhood of like two
to four seconds, somewherearound three seconds for like
the sweet spot.
And if we don't capturesomeone's attention in three
seconds, they're gone.
And they're never coming back.
They're not scrolling backwardsto see what they missed.
They're moving on.
In classrooms, we were we'vebeen taught as educators that we
(21:05):
have three minutes to get kids'attention in a traditional do
now.
And I'm just gonna call that,I'm calling BS on that.
Just calling BS on that becauseit's not true anymore.
Again, for the 5% of the kids,sure.
But not for the not for themasses, in my opinion.
Dr. Fonz Mendoza (21:20):
Yeah, no, and good point on that, and which
kind of leads me to my nextquestion too, because I know
there's a section in the bookhere where you even pose a
question, and talking a littlebit about engagement here is
that nowadays with so many appsthat are out there, and many
educators go to conferences orthey're on social media, they
get so excited for the next bigapp, and this is the app that's
(21:43):
gonna help me, this is the appthat's gonna solve my problems,
this is the app that is gonna dothis, and so on and so forth,
and then that's gonna engage thestudent even more and help
them.
And sometimes they just we havea tendency to bounce and bounce
from app to app.
So I want to ask you, becausethere was a section in the book
here where you ask a questionand say, you know, how as an
educator should we look at thespecific application and as far
(22:06):
as what metrics are we lookingat?
Are we looking at justengagement?
Because engagement doesn'talways equal learning.
You know, so uh can you, youknow, based on your research and
in your experience, can youtell us a little bit about what
might be some suggestions thatas teachers we should look into
to make sure that we are pickingan application that is going to
(22:28):
be useful and engaging for ourlearner?
Dr. Marc Isseks (22:33):
Well, I really think that it comes down to
approach.
Our approach.
I think if you have a greatapproach, then you could pick
from any app and make any appwork.
I know their committee istrying to figure out do oh,
should we have a Chromebook orshould we have an iPad?
Should we use school magicschool or should we use ChatGPT?
I and and you know, these areall debates, but at the end of
(22:53):
the day, what's the educator'sapproach?
And if you have the rightapproach to your instruction and
you're emphasizing engagementand you're emphasizing capturing
students' attention in theopening few seconds, minutes of
the lesson, and then taking themon a journey.
Um, and if you're addressingand approaching your instruction
that way, then I think youcould you could pretty much use
(23:14):
any app that you want.
Use the one that you're thatgets you excited, use the one
that really you think has themost promise that helps you
address your learning goals.
I don't believe in like pickingan app and then trying to like
let layer on all of yourcurriculum and all of your
instructional methods onto theapp.
Like figure out what it is thatyou want to do and what you
want to accomplish, and thenfind the app that you think will
(23:37):
help you best accomplish thatgoal.
And if you start thinking ofapps that way, instead of, well,
my district is making us usethis, so I guess I have to just
do everything on this.
Well, maybe that's just notgetting you where you want to
be.
And I know that again, thatthis is where I need admin to
like really hear this.
Like, you have to have someflexibility and adaptability and
allow your teachers to have andsupport that growth and risk
(24:00):
taking, um, and just not benecessarily dogmatic about any
particular one way or oneapplication.
Um, I I I think that's thefuture because what I've seen,
and I'm sure you've seen it tooin your role, and especially in
the in the ed tech, you know,part of your your district, is
that when all this technologycame in, we were using the
sophisticated, most powerfultools ever held in human hands,
(24:23):
and we were doing like what Icall like transactions.
Like, here's the worksheet from2005, but now it's digitized.
So I can airdrop it to you,it's magic, and that's
wonderful.
And we don't have to usephotocopies, and that's great.
There are benefits to that, butit's not maximizing the
leverage of the tool.
So it's not bad because I don'tbelieve in like good or bad.
Um, I just believe in degreesof effectiveness.
(24:45):
So it's good, it works, but isthere something better?
Is there something moreeffective or efficient and um
and more powerful?
And that's what I calltransformations.
That's the difference whenyou're using the technology to
allow students to push theirthinking to demonstrate what
they can produce, demonstratetheir understanding of what
(25:06):
they've learned using the tools.
And that's why if you're aneducator who's maybe a little
bit long in a tooth, likemyself, and you're a little bit
afraid of some of thetechnology, that's okay.
If your approach is right, thestudents know the technology,
let them use it and wow you.
You don't have to be the masterof the technology.
They could be the master of thetechnology.
You're the master ofinstruction, you're the master
(25:27):
of motivation, you're the masterof inspiration.
Let that be your skill set,your tools, your tools, and let
the students run crazy with thetechnology in the best way
possible.
Dr. Fonz Mendoza (25:37):
Absolutely.
Oh, I love everything that yousaid there because there's so
much to unpack.
And it kind of goes along theline with the next thing that I
want to mention, and somethingthat I know was very near and
dear to me when I was in theclassroom was always allowing
students uh and amplifying theirvoice, allowing them to share
their learning with me.
And like you said, it wasreally, I was just the guide on
the side.
(25:57):
I was there to helptroubleshoot in the sense of
here's our lesson, I present thelesson, but now here's what you
will be working on as a groupor as an individual.
And it was always, you know, ifyou can, I would give them a
choice.
If you want to use theChromebook, you can.
You have these choices.
Presentation, you can narratesomething, you can write an
(26:18):
essay, you can do a graphic,whatever it is to just
demonstrate your learning to methat you mastered that concept.
And it was so great to have somany students just dive in into
the tools, but really focusingon the learning because I was,
like I mentioned, I was justthere being that learning
engineer and just helping themout.
(26:38):
And which brings me to my nextpoint here, which on page 83
that you wrote in big boldletters that I really love.
It says tech is a microphone,not an encyclopedia.
And this is something that kindof goes in line with what I
always love to share withteachers is allowing for
discourse in the classroom andallowing the students to be able
(26:59):
to podcast or share a video oftheir learning or explaining the
learning to you, explaining aconcept to you, doing those
things.
But I must definitely read thisfirst line because it was very
impactful, too, as well.
Like I said, this book wasdefinitely captivating in the
sense that you had so many greatthings that just challenged me,
or or things that I was justlike, ooh, we definitely need to
(27:22):
hear that out loud.
And this was one of them whereit says, it is a misconception
that young people are zombifiedby their phones.
In actuality, that is oftenwhen when they feel most
connected and alive.
And to me, I was just like, youknow, being able to use an
instrument that they usecontinually where they
(27:44):
themselves go look forengagement to engage within the
learning as well.
And that's why I was a big fanof podcasting in the classroom,
video in the classroom to allowthe students to share their
learning because for me it wasprocess over product.
You know, I man, many times wefocus on the product so much,
(28:05):
and I know you do mention thatin the book, so I definitely
want you to share your insightson that as well.
Dr. Marc Isseks (28:11):
One of my favorite quotes of all time is
by Ed Catmull, and he was theco-founder of Pixar, arguably
one of the most successful filmcompanies in the world,
storytelling, some of thegreatest storytellers in the
entire world.
And he said, early on, all ofour movies suck, and we have to
(28:31):
go from suck to not suck.
And that tells you everything.
It's all about process, it'sall about process.
If they judged the the productof those early drafts of those
or the early editions of thosemovies, they would they would
cut bait, but that's not theirmindset.
Their mindset is, yeah, this isnot really particularly good
(28:53):
right now.
How do we make it great?
How do we make it great?
And everybody's kind of workingin that direction.
And I want schools to have thesame mindset.
There's sort of this finalityor fatality when you get
observed.
It's like, this is it.
This is like my whole year isgoing to be judged on this
40-minute or 45-minute period oftime.
And that's a completely unfairand unrealistic, you know, tool
(29:18):
to use and a system to use.
It has to be an ongoingconversation.
It's about growth, it's aboutthe climb.
I hate that you have quoteMiley Miley Cyrus here, but like
that's it's true.
Um it's the journey that we'reall on, but we all have to be on
it.
And if the administrator comesin as holier than thou, then it
it immediately puts everybody onthe defensive because you have
(29:41):
to like satisfy them or else.
And and I just I have found somuch more success working with
educators than not having thatapproach.
As a matter of fact, one of thethings that I do, and admin,
please feel free to steal this,is I I do what's called a blank
page exercise where I invite aneducator into work with me
before.
Anything like just literallystart with a blank page and sit
(30:02):
down and have a conversation.
Like, okay, what are youthinking about teaching?
How can I help you and supportyou and give you kind of push
you to make this as engaging aswe could possibly make it
together?
And I do that because I want todemonstrate humility, because I
want to, I want the ed theeducator to see how difficult it
is for me.
And this is my my 31st year.
And I'm pretty good at thisstuff too, if I may say.
(30:23):
Like, and I still the firstcouple of versions are terrible.
And we work past it until wefind a thing that gets us both
excited.
And now ever now we're likelike jazz musicians, like
working off of one another.
Um, and I I I would love peopleto have that approach because
first of all, it's not uh it'snot an observation.
So I am not judging you in anyway, and maybe you're judging
(30:45):
me, but that's okay, I canhandle it.
Um and uh, but then we get towork together and then we get to
have conversations.
Then I have I see them in thehall.
Hey, how did how did that go?
Did the kids like this?
And then they say, Oh, Ichanged this and it just went
really, really well.
And then they're empowered andnow they feel great.
And I feel great because I wasable to even do just the
smallest thing to kind of helpthem or point them in a
(31:05):
particular direction.
And so I want to see more kindof more kinds of conversations
about that, like process overproduct, not just with our
students, but working with ourteachers, because we have to
model that as educationalleaders if we have any hope of
that kind of trickling down andbecoming the culture of a
building.
Dr. Fonz Mendoza (31:20):
Oh, I love that.
And that is so wonderful,especially that component that
you mentioned is as anadministrator, really also being
that instructional leader andlearning that humility and that
you are putting yourself outthere too and showing that
vulnerability.
But at the same time, you'reworking together in making that
a lot better and making thatprocess and thinking things
(31:43):
through and iterating.
And I think that is such agreat example for you to have
with that educator because thenthat goes and translates into
the classroom where now studentsare also iterating together.
They're having thesediscussions, they're trying to
uh maximize the learning andthrough that processing that
(32:04):
they do is something that'sfantastic.
And I think that for myself,and and I speak to another
friend uh who is a contentspecialist, we feel like the
classrooms are very quiet in thesense that there is not enough
time to actually allow studentsprocessing time, number one, to
make sure that if they have aquestion, that they can ask that
question, the psychologicalsafety aspect of it too, as
(32:27):
well, where even oftentimes thethe way that the teacher might
approach the class, it doesn'tnecessarily feel like a very
safe space where they may notwant to ask a question and maybe
they later on they'll ask afriend or something.
But there's so many things thatcan change, but it all starts
with these conversations, likeyou said, as an administrative
uh and instructional leader,that gives the confidence to the
(32:51):
teacher as well to be able todo these things in class.
And I absolutely love that.
But getting back to the I havetremendous empathy.
Dr. Marc Isseks (32:58):
I'm so sorry to interrupt, but I have
tremendous I have tremendousempathy for educators and admin
in these situations.
The the curriculum sometimes isoverwhelming.
It's just too dense and wedon't have enough time.
I mean, I social studies was mysubject, and every year there
was more to teach because everyyear there was another year of
history and it was importantstuff and it was relevant stuff.
(33:18):
Um, but we still had to go backand start from the same point
historically, curriculum-wise,every year.
So, like the it became a joke.
Like when I first startedteaching, um, this is wasn't
even 9-11, right?
We didn't we didn't have thinkabout all the things that have
happened the last quarter of acentury.
So now all that, all of thosethings are still taught, plus
everything else, and it justkeeps packing and packing and
(33:40):
packing the curriculum more andmore densely.
It doesn't do anybody anyfavors.
It doesn't help the kids, itdoesn't help the teachers, and
it just puts them in a verydifficult situation where they
feel like their back is upagainst the wall, which is very
often why on the first day ofschool I'll walk the building
many, many times as I dothroughout the year, and I'll
hear teachers, and again,empathy absolutely empathetic to
(34:00):
this, like saying, All right,let's get going.
We have a regence in June.
I'm in New York State, we havea Regence in June, and we don't
have any time to waste.
I'm like, it's the first day ofschool.
Yes.
But but I understand, but I'mempathetic, but but that also
doesn't work.
Dr. Fonz Mendoza (34:15):
Yeah, no, I agree with you.
I remember when we firststarted school, I used to spend
like the whole first week justgetting to know my students.
I didn't even start, andeverybody else would start, but
later on I would just bundle mystandards because I would find
lessons that would go together.
So I was still able to keep uppace, but that whole first week
and really getting to know themand building that community and
(34:36):
building that rapport goes along way.
Of course.
I want to touch on the nextthing that also it just when I
saw this, I was like, oh mygosh, this is so great! Is the
new Rs.
Okay, the three new Rs, aswe're used to reading, writing,
and arithmetic.
But I love hearing that youtalk about remixing, recording,
(34:57):
and researching.
Tell us a little bit aboutthat.
Where did that idea come from?
Dr. Marc Isseks (35:03):
I'm just trying to find ways of framing things
in terms of relevance for kids.
What's funny is students willbe on their phones walking to
school, and on those phones,they are making messages,
creating content that hasmeaning to them.
Now, I'm not saying it's it haslike artistic value or as our
(35:26):
society in any meaningful way,but to them it has meaning and
it has value, and they're tryingto say something.
And how are they doing that?
They're combining all thesedifferent multimodal forms.
They're using sound, they'reusing memes, they're using
images, they're using text,they're using video, they're
using filters, and they arecreating using all of these
things, and they're streamingthem together and making
(35:48):
something that has some kind ofmessage and sending it back and
forth thousands of times a day.
And then we they come into aclassroom and we say, You're
gonna love this, and then wehand them a book that is black
and white, two-dimensional, andall it has is just one form of
you know text, and that's it.
And this is not to say that weshouldn't have students reading.
(36:09):
We need students reading, butwhat I'm saying is let's meet
them where they are.
Where they are is in thismultimodal space.
So if we can introduce ideasusing these multimodal concepts,
we can generate interest thatthey'll want to read the thing
that we want them to read.
And we can help them learn andanalyze and do all the different
things that we want skills-wisewhen it comes to reading,
(36:29):
because it's critical.
So I'm just saying we have tostart being being wiser and
smarter in terms of how weleverage the technology to get
the students to do the thingsthat we all believe truly as
educators are are very, veryimportant.
But if we skip that step and wejust say, well, then just take
out your Shakespeare becauseit's important, um, they they
don't think it's important.
Until we teach them why it'simportant.
(36:53):
And that's why motivating andinspiring kids and giving them
these ways of seeing things andchallenging them.
So now they'll be they'll wantto explore, they'll want to take
that journey with us.
So the the re the remixing andrecording and everything else,
like that was just to thinkabout like this is where
students are on a daily basis.
So why not, if we're gonna meetthem where they are, meet them
(37:14):
where they are great, not justwhere they are.
So if you want them todemonstrate knowledge, you want
them to demonstrateunderstanding, go where they're
amazing, where they couldproduce something incredible.
I had a student named Rao, uh,who was an eighth grader.
I'm going back a ways, and heloved to make videos.
And I was teaching eighth gradehistory, and he asked if he
could do basically do hishomework in video form.
(37:36):
And at first I was like, well,you know, I probably should, but
then I was like, What am Idoing?
And he would create thegreatest short films for his
homework and projects.
And then I would ask him, youknow, do me a favor, take this
and like turn it into an essayfor me.
So at least I could say that Icould see that you could you
could convert and demonstrateyour knowledge, at least in this
(37:56):
written form, because you willhave to write an essay at some
point.
But where his heart was andwhere his passion was and where
his immense talent was was inthis was in this form.
And what happened was the kidslook forward to seeing what
Ralph produced for homework.
And it just it just added tothe it added a whole layer and a
whole dimension to the richnessof that class that year.
(38:18):
Um so but you have to be ableto find that, and you can't find
that if you're just usingconventional traditional
methods.
Dr. Fonz Mendoza (38:23):
No, I love that.
And you know, it kind ofreminds me of a story during my
doctoral coursework.
Uh, one year we I had uh Dr.
Jewitt, so she's listening.
Big shout out to Dr.
Jewitt.
One year she decided to do achoice board.
And, you know, being being inclassrooms and doing ed tech, I
mean, I knew what choice boardswere.
I used them in my classroomsand so on to give my students
(38:44):
choice and voice and how theywant to demonstrate their
learning.
And there was about 20 of us inthe class who were doing a Zoom
session.
You should have seen the deerand headlights look that a lot
of my classmates had becausethey're like, What do you mean a
choice board?
I was just like in the zone.
I was like, Yes, all right.
And then so she was like, Okay,this is you can do this.
(39:05):
Here's a combination of contacthours.
You can do this book study, youcan watch this movie, you can
do this or that.
And I was the very first one.
I was like, Hey, um, can I do apodcast?
And sure enough, she's like,Well, yeah, why not?
So every time that was me, likein all my doctoral classes,
when there was some kind ofproject that could be done, I
(39:26):
would say, can I just do apodcast and a video?
Can I do a podcast and a video?
And they were okay, but that'sbecause that's just my favorite
form of communicating and so on.
So I can definitely relate tothe student story that you're
talking about.
But even as adults, just givingus a choice, you know, and
oftentimes, like you said, thecurriculum tells you exactly
what it is that you need to do,but just to kind of be able to
(39:48):
tweak that, reframe things,remix things in a way that is
relevant to the students andmaking those connections is
something wonderful because thatkind of takes us to the the
next uh big thought that I I sawyou right here is about
obviously screen time anddopamine, but I mean being able
(40:08):
to remix and reinvent lessons ina way that is engaging, that
can also give those studentsthose that little dopamine hit
that they seek when they'relooking at their screens.
Because here the question wasit says the screen promises
dopamine, does the classroom andnow you can even substitute in
there and say, does yourclassroom do I do that?
(40:31):
So I think that that wassomething that was very powerful
there as far as how ouractivities that we create for
our students are are in ourengineering our lessons.
How are we going about doingthat?
Are we just simply takingwhat's there in the platform and
giving that worksheet and justsubmit it to me and that's it?
Or are are there creative waysof being able to remix that so
(40:56):
that our students get engaged?
And I absolutely love that.
I was just like, wow, that thattook me back.
And you know, uh this bookreally honestly is great because
it it challenges you, but itlike you mentioned, it opens up
the your thinking to be able toreframe things in in a different
way and in a not so uh I wouldsay like outlandish way, but in
(41:20):
little incremental things thatcan really like wow make you
kind of think and just analyze,take in and say, Yeah, okay, I
let me try that, and it makesyou feel very comfortable.
So absolutely love this.
And uh Mark, thank you so much.
This has been an awesomeconversation.
(41:41):
But before we go, I I just wantto ask you, you know, bottom
line, you know, for ourlisteners, your book, captivate.
What is what are the two thingsthat are your top two things
that you would hope that areader that takes your book can
glean from that, from yourwriting?
Dr. Marc Isseks (42:00):
Wow, that is maybe the hardest question I've
been thinking.
Um I I think I would love foreducators to walk away with a a
a renewed sense of theimportance of the first few
seconds or minute of the lessonand not rely on sort of this
three-minute convention.
(42:21):
Um I think if we started there,a lot of things would start to
fall into place if we reallytook those first few seconds and
really focused on how am Igoing to to capture my students'
attention.
Because the name of the game isattention.
Uh I'm a huge Gary V fan, andhe's been talking about
attention for a long, long time.
Um and it just couldn't be anytruer in this in the classroom,
(42:43):
just like it is every place elseon Earth.
So um we have to be mindful ofthat.
So that would be one takeawayis just understand the
importance of the opening andreally double down on on the
opening.
And um I guess the other thingwould be just to be able to take
risks and to to be able to pushpast your conventional perhaps
(43:06):
thinking or or your traditionalthinking or your cognitive
entrenchment.
That's your that's the waywe've always done it, thinking,
um, with the understanding thatit's okay and it you didn't do
anything wrong in the past.
You've had success, but whenyou have success, sometimes you
stop looking.
And uh so just to be able to bereflective always and
understand that there is nomountaintop when it comes to
(43:28):
being a great educator.
Uh it is just climbing themountain, and we're all climbing
together.
Um only only people who believein mythologies like tenure and
mastery um are the ones whostop.
The rest of us say, Yeah, yeah,okay, yeah, but I haven't found
it yet.
Um, and they keep going.
And uh, you know, that thoseare the folks that that I really
(43:49):
you know love talking to andget inspired by.
Dr. Fonz Mendoza (43:52):
Love it.
Well, thank you so much forsharing.
And going back to what you weresaying, you're the the very
first thing, page 95.
So for I'm just giving you apreview.
Those of you that are gonnapurchase the book, please make
sure that you purchase.
We will definitely link it inthe bio and show notes, excuse
me, in the show notes as well.
That way you can check it out.
But this is what he's talkingabout is saving, or it says save
(44:13):
the best for first.
So I think that that issomething that is very unique,
and I really like that approach.
But again, I definitelyrecommend this book for all our
listeners.
Please make sure you get it.
It will challenge you, butit'll also give you some great
knowledge nuggets and ways tojust kind of tweak your
practice, things that you cansprinkle up, sprinkle to what
(44:33):
you're already doing great tojust make yourself that much
better.
So, Mark, thank you so much forbeing here with us.
But before we wrap up, I alwayslove to end the show with these
last three questions.
So hopefully you are ready togo.
So, as we know, every superherohas a pain point or a weakness.
So for Superman, kryptonite washis weakness.
(44:54):
So I want to ask you right now,Mark, in the current state of
education, what would you say isyour current edu kryptonite?
Dr. Marc Isseks (45:04):
I think like meanness, meanness in the form
of sometimes the way ideas oryou know, new ideas are met um
with with hostility, withmeanness instead of kind of
empathy and reflection.
Um, that's definitelykryptonite for me because it
just it harkens to, you know, athis is the way we've always
(45:26):
done it reaction from me, andthat that definitely sets me
back.
So if that's what kryptoniteis, which I'm pretty sure it is,
um, that's definitely it forme.
Dr. Fonz Mendoza (45:35):
All right, great answer, Mark.
Thank you.
Question number two is if youcould have a billboard with
anything on it, what would it beand why?
Dr. Marc Isseks (45:45):
I think I would use the quote that you just
brought up before.
Uh you know, tech is amicrophone, not an encyclopedia.
Um just as a reminder, a dailyreminder of what the purpose of
technology and where the truepower of technology is.
It's not in looking things up.
Um, it's in what you can do andwhat you can say and how you
can use your voice to empowerothers.
(46:07):
Um so that would be that wouldbe on my billboard.
Dr. Fonz Mendoza (46:10):
That is so powerful.
Hopefully you'll make that intoa shirt and let me know.
I'll be your first cus, I'll beyour first customer because it
is it's definitely yeah,definitely for sure.
I'll get a hoodie too and a capbecause I love it.
It is great.
All right.
Question number three, Mark.
If you could trade places witha single person for a full day,
(46:30):
who would that be and why?
Dr. Marc Isseks (46:36):
Well, I mentioned Gary V before, so I
think I would choose Gary Vbecause he just he's got he's
like on it.
He's like on everything.
He's got the whole thing abouttechnology down, he's really got
a whole lot about parentingdown.
He has such great insights.
So I would definitely swapplaces with him, although he's a
Jet fan, so I might have torethink that strongly because
I'm a Giant fan.
So that might be a dealbreaker, but it jets aside, I
(46:58):
think it might be Gary Vee for aday, at least right now in
2025.
Dr. Fonz Mendoza (47:02):
All right.
Well, thank you, Mark.
I really appreciate it.
Uh please, before we wrap upagain, officially, Rebbe, I know
I've been saying that a lot oftimes, but please let our
audience know how they may beable to connect with you, where
your website or anything, orwhere it is that they can also
get their hands on your amazingbook.
Dr. Marc Isseks (47:20):
Sure.
You can reach me at markis.com,just my first and last
name.com.
It has a link tree.
So you can find me on all thesocial platforms.
You can find a link to thebook, a link to my podcast, a
link to just about everythingand anything that I that I put
out there in terms of content.
So that would be really thebest place.
Um, markiseks.com,M-A-R-C-I-S-S-E-K-S.com.
Dr. Fonz Mendoza (47:41):
Awesome.
And awesome.
Well, that'll definitely be onthe show notes.
And to all our audience membersand listeners, thank you so
much for your support.
As always, we appreciate you.
Thank you so much for justsharing our content, engaging
with our content.
But please make sure you visitour website at myedtech.life
where you can check out thisamazing episode and the other
(48:03):
337 episodes that we have, whereI promise you you will
definitely find a littlesomething for you that you can
sprinkle onto what you arealready doing great.
And again, a big shout out toour sponsors, Book Creator,
Edu8, and Yellow Dig.
Thank you so much for believingin our mission of bringing
these great conversations intoour education landscape to
(48:23):
continue to grow ourselvesprofessionally and personally as
well.
And my friends, until nexttime, don't forget, stay techie.
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