How Mega Minds Brings Real-World CTE to Classrooms ft. Eric Tao & Austin Levinson | My EdTech Life 349 - My EdTech Life

Episode Transcript
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Dr. Alfonso Mendoza (00:12):
Hello, everybody, and welcome to
another great episode of My EdTech Life.
Thank you so much for joiningus on this wonderful day.
And wherever it is that you'rejoining us from around the
world, thank you as always forall of your support.
We appreciate all the likes,the shares, the follows.
Thank you so much for engagingwith our content, sharing our
content.
And thank you so much just foryou know sharing your comments

(00:33):
with us.
We, you know that we do what wedo for you because we love to
bring you these amazingconversations so that way we may
continue to grow professionallyand personally as well.
And I want to give a big shoutout to our sponsors.
Thank you so much, BookCreator, Eduate, Yellow Dig, and
Peelback Education.
Thank you so much for believingin our mission so we can bring

(00:54):
these great conversations intoour education space.
And I am excited to welcomeback two guests.
Now, one guest, Eric Tao.
The last time he was on ourshow was back on September 12th,
2023, when he just introducedme to this amazing platform, his
amazing platform that they'regoing to be talking about today,

(01:16):
which is Mega Minds.
So I'm really excited to seeall of those updates since 2023.
And our the our co-guest, orthe the next guest, I should
say, uh, and we can actually wecan all be co-hosts too as well.
So we'll we'll say the nextco-host here is Austin Levinson,
who was just on the show aboutfive episodes ago.

(01:38):
But this time you're listeningto him in English.
So thank you both for beinghere on this uh wonderful
evening.
It's a nice chilly evening herein South Texas.
Hopefully the weather is nicewherever it is, where you're
joining us from, from Colombia.
And Eric, where is it thatyou're joining us from?
New Jersey.

Eric Tao (01:55):
And unfortunately, this it's rain and sleet out
right now.

Oh, New Jersey.
So it's really cold out there.
But I am excited about today'sconversation because again, Mega
Mines two years ago is when Ifirst found out about it, and it
was just great the immersivelearning and that space.
But today we get to see alittle bit more updates that are
happening as far as thelearning is concerned.
So I'm really excited aboutthat.

(02:19):
So let's go ahead and dive in.
But before we get really,really into the meat of it, uh,
Eric, for our audience memberswho may not be familiar with
your work just yet, or theyhaven't listened to episode 230
yet.
Can you give us a little briefintroduction and what your
context is within the ed techspace?

Eric Tao (02:42):
Sure.
Uh, okay.
Um, my name is Eric Tao.
I'm the founder and CEO of MegaMinds.
Uh, Mega Minds is an AI-poweredlearning platform that puts
students inside immersivesimulations uh with little AI
characters.
They're sort of like we callthem NPCs.
They're like little video gamecharacters that the students
interact with uh within thisimmersive environment.

(03:02):
And that the the the and we canprogram the AI to act as
guides, as tutors, as mentors,as coworkers, as bosses, and
you'll you'll get a little tasteof that a little later.
Um, but as far as my backgroundgoes, um, I'm not an educator,
although I was raised in afamily of educators.
So my my mother is was anEnglish teacher, my father was a

(03:23):
university professor, my wifehas worked for New York City
schools for the past 15 years.
Um, but I have a techbackground.
So I I worked at Google umabout a decade ago, uh, very
closely with the with the VRteam.
Uh and we invented some reallypowerful uh technology at the
time, uh, some of which trickledits way into uh what we're

(03:43):
gonna show you later.
Um but but you know it was itwas um basically link-based
immersive experiences.
Okay.
A way to, uh and this was backin 2016.
So, you know, it was four yearsprior to the pandemic.
And, you know, and you know, II recognize at the time we were
doing kind of silly things.
We were doing like virtualfield trips right around this

(04:04):
time, uh um, you know, in 2016,I took a VR camera down Fifth
Avenue and filmed like Tiffany'sand Macy's Windows displays,
and and we put them into youknow this technology that we'll
show you as like a virtual fieldtrip.
But the whole time I wasthinking there's there's there's
there's way more powerfulthings that we could do.
Uh and naturally my my my mindalways went uh to education and

(04:25):
what we could do there.
Uh and that that's sort of thethe beginning of the pathway
that led us to to to to today.

Nice, excellent.
So that's great.
And so for our audiencemembers, you heard it, great
background.
Eric's got a lot of experience.
And really, honestly, I can'twait for you, the our viewers
that are going to be watchingthe video, but even our
listeners, even when you get tohear the demo of Mega Minds,
you're gonna be blown away bythe work that Eric and Austin
are doing.
So, Austin, for our audiencemembers that are catching you

(04:54):
for the first time, getting toknow you, can you give us a
little brief background and whatyour context is within the
education space?

Austin Levinson (05:01):
Sure.
Thanks, Alfonsoan.
It's a pleasure to be hereagain.
Uh I am an educator.
I was a classroom teacher forabout 20 years, and I I have
developed STEAM programs.
Uh, I developed uh gifted andtalented programs.
Uh I was big into PBL, designthinking.
I was always uh thinking aboutengagement.
That was always uh I alwaysthought that you know there were

(05:24):
teachers who had all their T'sdotted and I's crossed, uh, but
really weren't as engaging,didn't have the charisma to
really reach the students, andthey were like teaching with one
hand behind their back.
And so I always spent a lot oftime focusing on and thinking
about how to bring thatenthusiasm, that excitement, and
that energy and give thestudents the center of the
learning experience.

(05:44):
That was always what I did as aclassroom teacher.
And now I've got theopportunity to do that with Mega
Minds.
And so it's been a greatpleasure to bring some of my
ideas about creativity, aboutmany of the facets of critical
thinking and about metacognitioninto uh an immersive learning
space that really gives studentsuh agency in a way that very
few things can.

(06:05):
They really are at the helm oftheir experience.
And I think that right now, inthe end of 2025, the world that
we're living in, anybody goesout to a restaurant, even to a
soccer game, a baseball game,you see people buried in their
phones.
And so to try to engagestudents right now is harder
than ever.
People have been in educationfor for as long as as I have,

(06:27):
and and even even less time, seethat over time it's harder and
harder to engage them.
And so that I'd say to call itan engagement crisis is
something that we've got to findsmarter and more interesting
and more unusual and moreinnovative ways to capture their
attention to be able to fosterincredible learning growth.

Excellent.
I love all of that.
And that's why I'm excitedabout today's show because I
mean we're gonna be talking alot about mega minds.
But before we get into it tooas well, it's like you
mentioned, you know, and Eric atthe very beginning and and
Austin, you know, somethingEric, you working in that ed
tech background, talking about,you know, uh immersive

(07:06):
technology, ARVR.
And then of course, now we'retalking about AI in education,
whether it's generative AI.
Uh, and Austin, you do uh onLinkedIn, that's really the
conversation.
You're always joining in inthose chats too, and always have
some wonderful things to say.
But as we're entering now, likeyou mentioned, I think there's
gonna be a new phase.

(07:27):
And I think what we're seeingnow and what you're doing
through Mega Minds is definitelysomething that is gonna be very
different because usually nowwe're seeing a lot of
productivity tools for teachers.
So it's a lot of teacher-facingtools.
You know, there are somestudent-facing tools, but again,
it's really the engagement is alittle different.

(07:48):
And I know, Austin, you talkabout engagement where really
it's what the student puts in,then they get an output, they
get feedback, and so on.
But one thing that youmentioned, Austin, was student
agency and the importance ofthat and how to hook the learner
and find a different andinnovative way to do that.
And like Eric and and youthough through the work of Mega

(08:10):
Minds, I think that we are gonnastart seeing the shift in that
immersive technology now wherethe students can be in it, in
the learning, and have thatstudent agency as well.
But I want to ask you, and I'llstart with you, Austin, how do
you see this transitionunfolding maybe in this coming
year, 2026?

(08:30):
And where does Mega Minds fitin in that transition?

Well, we were speaking to somebody just today,
was telling us that uh agencyor actually engagement has
really become a more a biggerproblem this school year than it
has ever been before.
And she noticed that in this ina virtual school setting, it's
a it's a really massive problem.
And there were and a lot of theplatforms that exist, there

(08:56):
might be a slide deck, theremight be videos that they watch,
there may be some graphics orpoint-based things, but how much
of that is really gamifying it?
It's I mean, I think thestudents, an astute middle
school student, and especiallysome disenfranchised ones or
ones with ADHD or otherneurodivergent um you know
situations, they're seeingthrough that or they're not
really getting hooked by it.

(09:16):
It's not really working overtime.
And so the the immersiveexperience, and and until you
really try it, until you'veplayed or been inside a video
game and feel that excitement ofexploring, of looking around,
of moving around, of discovery.
Um, and and the interestingthing is that it feels like a
game, it looks like a game, thecontrols are like a game, and

(09:39):
it's definitely not a game, MegaMinds.
It's definitely veryintentional in its learning
goals, in its purpose, and it'sit's the scaffolding that's in
place because of the AI tutors.
And that's what we're going toshow you.
But the AI companions that arewithin that immersive space,
that combination is somethingthat propels it into a different

(10:01):
playing field in terms ofengagement and in terms of
students wanting to be there.

Excellent.
Now, Austin, like I I like thatview that you're coming in from
that pedagogical sense as well.
But now, Eric, turning to youon the on the ed tech side of
this, you have been with livingwithin this ed tech space, like
you mentioned, your backgroundworking with Google and the work
that you've done prior topandemic with AR, VR, immersive

(10:27):
technologies, and now with megamines.
So, for from your perspective,I know you're pretty gonna be
pretty in deep as far as seeingtrends and the changes that are
occurring.
So, I want to ask you, how doyou see this unfolding in 2026?
And again, the same questionthat I asked Austin, how do you
see Mega Minds fitting in intothat from your perspective?

Eric Tao (10:51):
Yeah, definitely.
So my perspective is alwaysgonna lean towards the
technological and what I sawwith AI in education, it's not
far from what we saw with AI andreally any field.
The first companies were werebasically picking the
low-hanging fruit, right?
So they were, they were, theywere creating wrappers around
LLMs to use the generative toolsto make productivity tools.

(11:13):
But the key thing, I think, totake into account is those tools
were designed for the the uhfor what LLMs do best, not
necessarily for what for forpedagogy or for what you know to
to for how students learn.
It was what can an LL do thatcan make a teacher's job easier?
Oh, it can generate a quiz withthe press of a button.

(11:34):
You can now generate a slidedeck with the press of a button.
That was, you know, you can mapthat across every field,
photography, for uh um uhgraphic design, uh, you know,
that was the first layer of AIcompanies.
I think what we're seeing nowis um a shift into phase two,
where phase two companies aretaking, I don't know if creative
is the right word, but uh amore unique approach to

(11:56):
incorporating AI to uh reallyaffect pedagogy, uh, not only um
uh uh AI that interact withstudents, but also what's
happening on the back end.
So AI has the agents have theremarkable ability to make sense
of massive amounts of data,right?
So when you're talking aboutMegaMinds, you're talking about

(12:16):
a 3D space, right?
On a typical learning platform,you're able to serve up
insights via clicks, timebetween clicks, and student
inputs.
And that's really all the datathat you have to really get
insights from for uh for theteacher.
In our environment, we have thethree, the whole 3D broom.
We have what we have what thestudent is doing in the 3D room,
where they're looking, whothey're talking to, all of that

(12:38):
uh uh can be collated togetherinto and form insights uh that
can be served to the teacher.
And I'll we can we can get intothat a little bit later.
Um so I think um one of thethings that we do is we focus on
skills.
We don't focus on tools.
You know, we we for so numberone for us, it's about letting
kids use students use AI in aproductive way.

(12:59):
It's you know, let's let's useAI to help them develop their
critical thinking skills.
Um, unfortunately, we don'tbelieve that that's possible in
the text interface.
We actually think that the textinterface is not productive for
learning and that it iscounterproductive and that it
can lead to shortcuts, it canlead to cheating.
So it's for us, it's aboutfinding unique approaches
towards AI.

(13:19):
And as I mentioned, the secondway we go about it is uh making
teachers, uh giving them theinformation and the insights to
be even more efficient and moreeffective at their jobs.
Uh for us, it's not about uhgenerating uh uh content for
them.
Uh it's about using AI as as away to surface the data that
they need that they've simplynever had access to before.

(13:41):
And then let's watch the sparksfly when they have when they
know that you know one of theiruh that Jimmy is uh um you know
doing really well in this area,but not so well in this area,
and they know thatinstantaneously.
Uh that that's it that's that'sa game changer.

And to and to add to that, if I may, and I
think it also, you know, theholy grail in for many years
when I was a teacher and I thinkit still exists is is
differentiation.
It's like this holy grail, it'sextremely difficult.
People who say, I've got it,they they probably don't have it
because it's it's a it's amoving target, the students are
gonna change.
And so to have all of thatinformation that we get much

(14:15):
richer data than in just a textface, text-based interface,
having all that data gives theteachers actionable information
to be responsive teachers,right?
I think we we've heard a lotabout this in progressive
education circles.
We want to be responsive tostudent needs.
We don't want to just followthe curriculum.
You know, we talk aboutfidelity.
Fidelity to what?

(14:35):
To a curriculum or to thestudent needs, to the student
needs.
And so if we want to do that,we're we're providing the
teachers with the real fodderthat they can use to
personalize, to differentiate,to form small groups, and it
keeps the teacher always at thecenter of the experience.
That human element is everimportant in Mega Minds, and it

(14:56):
really is the key to the studentsuccess.

I love that.
Yeah, and you, I mean, you hiton so many great points, both
both of you, that I kind of wantto just pull a little bit of
strands here.
And so, like you mentioned,Eric, one thing that I loved is
that you're focusing on theskills, not the tools.
And what we're seeing, again,the obviously from 2022,
everything or a lot of theplatforms that are out there are

(15:20):
very text-based.
Again, teachers, like youmentioned, are able to generate
uh, you know, worksheets, uhpresentations, and so on.
And then on the student side ofit, too, it's just very text
driven.
There are some companies outthere that are, you know,
getting a you're taking thatcreative approach in putting in,
you know, some bots and so on.
But the fact of the matter is,it's just really still seems

(15:43):
like substitution in the senseof, you know, going from paper
to a digital document, but thenyou're still gonna get that
digital answer back.
But the difference that I dosee through Mega Minds, and
again, because I first heardabout it in uh 2023, and what
I've seen that I loved about itwas that immersion into the

(16:04):
learning, where it's pretty muchsort of can be like a choose
your own adventure.
You're engaging the student andthey're still going to be
learning in a way that makessense, which takes me back to
what Austin was saying.
I was having a conversationearlier today with one of our uh
content specialists formathematics.
And, you know, being anassessment, I see data all the

(16:25):
time and I paint the picturethat the data gives me and
present that.
And oftentimes it leads to, youknow, showing us where the
areas of deficiencies are.
And like you mentioned, theimportant part about it is it's
not necessarily that maybe thecurriculum would be deficient,
but it could be that maybe inthis particular uh module or

(16:49):
unit or standard, maybe youknow, Dr.
Fonds doesn't understand the,you know, the concept in that
way.
Um, you know, and so the datatells me the story.
Is it is it the teacher?
Maybe, maybe not.
Is it the student?
Well, maybe if it's thestudent, how might how else
might we present that teachingfor them, like you mentioned,

(17:10):
and be responsive as opposed tojust, hey, here's the
curriculum, stick with it, dayone, day two, day three, day
four.
And it's like, wait a minute,you know, hold on to this.
You know, we need to be uh ableto make that shift and adapt to
our student learning.
So I think that you the waythat you describe this is
something that really gets meexcited, and especially now,

(17:31):
gentlemen, and you know, and Ihad uh Dr.
Mark Essex on the show uh acouple of episodes back, and
he's got a book calledCaptivate.
And his big thing is theattention span of students due
to them being on social mediaand TikTok and things of that
sort, where you really only havethree to five seconds to hook

(17:52):
them and engage them.
So, one of the things that Iwant to ask about here is from
your experience, obviouslyworking through Mega Minds, you
know, the immersive uh theimmersive experience that you
offer, how do you see thestudents and in in their
experience engaging or actuallyre-engaging in the learning

(18:14):
based on their experiences withFortnite, Roblox, TikTok, social
media?
So I'll start with you, Austin.
What have you seen?
And just tell us a little bitabout that.

Well, so I think first it's important to
note that if you expect there tobe a magic bullet, you know,
they still have to put fortheffort, and we want them to put
forth effort.
If there's not thinkinginvolved, and oh, I could just
go through this and I'm justgonna go through this room and
I'm just gonna magically learn.
No, there's still thinkingrequired, and it needs to be, it
needs to be framed in that way,right?
But the experience is gonna bevastly different.

(18:48):
And one of the biggest ways iswhen I think about my experience
with um with many of mystudents over the years.
I always had a classroom normaround ask for help.
And we tried to create aculture of a safe space to ask
for help.
And it's difficult to ask forhelp.
If I'm 13 years old and myfriends are in the classroom,

(19:09):
how likely is it that I'm gonnaraise my hand and ask for help?
It's hard for many adults toask for help.
The key with the AI companionswithin the immersive space is
that it's a safe space to askfor help.
There's no judgment.
They're gonna be able to askfor help and they're able to get
help in their zone of proximaldevelopment, depending upon
where they are, and they'regonna feel safe doing so again

(19:30):
and again.
And that's something that is isis hard to quantify, but is
worth gold.
I mean, that touches right intothe social emotional components
of learning that are impeding alot of learners from
progressing, and it's impedingthe teachers from getting the
information eventually as well,because they're not gonna get
the information right awayeither.
And the affective filter, forthose of you familiar with

(19:52):
Steven Crashin, who I'm a bigdevotee of, the affective filter
for language acquisition stopspeople from wanting to speak,
from wanting to.
Ask questions from wanting toget help.
So that's for me such a bigcomponent that we're really
providing that safe space.
And that's a major inclusiveelement and accessibility
element for a wide range oflearners, which is so important.

I love that.
Now, Eric, onto you, especiallyon the tech side of things.
I know you mentioned a littlebit earlier, you know, being
within the experiences itself,the teachers being able to see,
maybe, and like Austin wassaying, those areas of struggle
that the students may have, butnow they have that companion

(20:33):
that they can easily ask aquestion to.
So how about yourself?
What is it that you have seenhow or that you have experienced
also how Mega Minds is engagingor re-engaging students in
their learning?

Eric Tao (20:47):
Yeah, this is a great opportunity, I think, to tell
our little story about uh anintervention study that we did
uh in the spring with the TitleI School of Florida.
So I I actually met the the umthe head of the school at FATC
in January, and you know, Ishowed her an early prototype of
of our of our AI uh umcompanions in in the world, and

(21:08):
she was she was very impressive.
She called me up in March andwas like, hey, I have a cohort
of students who are way behindin math.
Uh in fact, there were a groupof eighth to ninth graders, and
0% of them were at grade level.
In fact, 83% of them were twograde levels or more behind.
And she said, I'm gonna do uhan intervention uh with them.
And you know, I want to offeryou an opportunity.

(21:31):
You I know you have a middleschool math, you know, uh uh
bundle.
Um, would you like to be partparticipate?
And I said, of course.
This this sounds like anamazing uh opportunity.
So now these were these areteenagers now.
There they were eighth andninth graders who, through no
fault of their own, uh in in atthe beginning of the pandemic,
when they were supposed to belearning foundational math

(21:52):
skills in fourth and fifthgrade, they never got the
opportunity to maybe they didn'thave devices, maybe they didn't
have internet access.
This is this is Title I uh um,you know, school.
And through no fault of theirown, they'll those learning gaps
stayed with them.
And so they're now teenagersand they believe that they were
they that are not good at math,that they were, that they uh um,
you know, just not math people.

(22:13):
Okay.
Um by the end of the semester,so in June, that we got the
results back, 67% of thestudents who used Mega Minds got
to grade level.
And only 22% of those in thecontrol group and the using
regular intervention techniqueswere able to get there uh uh get
uh to achieve the same.
So um Austin and I were able todo a two-hour down uh download

(22:36):
with the teacher and with uh uhyou know a number of the
students, and we kept hearingthe same thing over and over and
over.
And that was I could practice.
I could practice with the AIs,I could say I don't understand
it.
The AIs would would level atlevel to them and try to try to
explain it in a different way.
Um, the idea of productivestruggle, uh, the the the the

(22:57):
idea that they that they feltsafe to talk to an AI, whereas
these are kids who are they'renot gonna raise their hand in
class, they were not gonna beactive participants in class.
But in our environments, theyfelt safe to.
And not only that, but theythey they felt compelled to come
back.
It wasn't a one-and-done thing.
They came back to the modules.
They wouldn't need to study fora test or they need to work

(23:18):
through something that they feltthey were weak at.
They would go and they wouldwork with the AIs.
Now, combine that with how ourteacher approached it.
So she said uh she would sitback, she would spent the first
half of the class period doingher mini lesson, and then she
would assign the students intoMega Minds for the second half.
And then she would open herlaptop, and then on her
dashboard, you can just see allthe c all the students working

(23:39):
away and all the data is comingback to her in real time.
So she can see the second uh uhand um one of the AI AI's
reports to her, okay, you know,Jimmy is having problems with
with this word problem overhere.
She would walk over and go,hey, I see you're having a
problem with with this word.
But can I help you help you uhunderstand the concept?
Should she be able to fill thatlearning gap immediately?

(24:01):
Or if she saw like a group ofher students having the same
problem, she would prepare a newmini lesson for the next day
that helped fill that gap.
So that I don't know that thatthat was that's that's been
possible before.
You know, they otherwise shewould have to wait two weeks for
the quiz and then have to, youknow, spend a day going through
the the results of the quiz tofigure out to arrive to her own
uh uh conclusions on on whoneeds help with what.

(24:23):
Now it's served to herimmediately.
And it's not just theconversation that it's taking
the data from, it's all of theactivity that the student's
doing in that 3D room.
Like I said, it's it's it'sit's that that wealth of
activity that it is just AI isthe only thing that could sort
through all of that to generatethose insights that are so
powerful for her.
So, in her own words, it madeher a more productive, a more

(24:46):
effective, and a more efficientteacher.
Go ahead, Austin.

And that loop between teaching assessment and
then that formative assessmentguiding your instruction, that
loop is as tight as possiblebecause the interactions provide
immediate information that theteachers can act upon within
minutes.
And in a typical classroom, howcould a teacher observe what 30
students are doing?
Are they working through theslide deck or are they looking

(25:10):
at something else?
Are they actually answering thequestions?
It's impossible to do that.
Yet with Mega Minds, and wehave a feature now where we're
asking reflection andmetacognition questions.
One teacher said that bygetting a metacognition, really
there's this one AI that'sasking metacognition questions
about, you know, what are youstill struggling with?
What were your biggest gains inthis module?

(25:31):
What are some ways thisconnects to the real world?
By by getting the AI to askthose questions and the teachers
get them on the dashboard, it'slike the teacher interviewing
every student at the end ofclass every day, which is
obviously impossible.
It's no longer impossible.
We've made the impossible aboutgiving feedback to the students
and the teacher possiblethrough the use of these

(25:54):
AI-powered immersive spaces.

Yeah.
And I think that's veryimportant because, like you
said, that that to me is worthgold in itself.
I mean, I remember my days inthe classroom and of course
trying everything, going frompaper exit tickets just to see,
you know, just little checks forunderstanding in that sense.
And then all of a sudden, thatstack just becomes very ominous
on my desk.

(26:46):
And then saying, okay, now I'mgoing to do it digitally.
Well, then now I had a digitalstack of Google form responses
and things of that sort that Istill have to filter through and
so on.
And of course, you do that.
But the fact that I love thatwhile they are doing their
lesson, you get to see, as ateacher from the dashboard, see
those specific areas that theteacher, that the students, I

(27:09):
should say, might be strugglingwith.
And I love what Eric saidimmediately.
I get a cue, I can go to thatstudent, and then I can either
fix that misconception that theymight be having, or like you
said too as well, seeing a groupof students that might be
having the similar issue.
And then I can say as ateacher, okay, maybe I need to
explain it differently and justhave that reteach moment right

(27:32):
then and there, but it's allwith intention.
And one thing that I love thatEric said too is like I remember
having to sift through allthose papers or giving a quiz
and then having to grade andthen you know, say, you know
what, I'll grade this tomorrow.
By the time I finish that quiz,it's already two days after.
And my students don't get thatfeedback uh that they need to
get immediately.

(27:52):
And now through Mega Minds,that makes things so much easier
through that dashboard, which Ithink, like I said, it's
definitely worth its weight ingold, and it's something that's
wonderful there.
Uh, the next thing though thatI do want to talk about, because
I know that this was somethingthat is of interest to me, and
I've been kind of writing thisCTE train.
Uh, the fact that now you areincluding CTE lessons within

(28:18):
Mega Mines, I think isfantastic.
And one of the things that weoften hear, or that I would
often hear, not only from mydistrict, but other colleagues
that work at other districts, isobviously it's always, man, CTE
is so expensive.
You've got to buy thesematerials, you've got to buy
these welders, you've got tobuy, you know, whatever it is

(28:39):
that you're doing for wood shop,for, you know, for nursing and
things of that sort.
So, what might be some creativeways that we can save some
money with that?
Well, having an immersiveexperience.
So, I want to ask you, youknow, since CTE really lends
itself to immersive experiences,I want to ask you as far as

(29:00):
your simulations that you offer,what kind of feedback or
results have you seen from yourstudents?
And this time I'll start withEric.
Yeah.

Eric Tao (29:08):
Uh, first off, what I you might think, okay, they're,
you know, they've had success inmath, CTE.
What is the connection betweenbetween math and CTE?
Well, the connection is the thevalue of safe spaces for
practice, uh, low-stake spacefor practice.
That's that's the through line.
That's the value propositionthat we give to students.
It applies whether you'relearning math, it applies

(29:30):
whether you're learninglanguages, it applies whether
you're learning CTE, going on ajob interview, practicing.
You know, we have a job centerwhere students can practice six
different, six or sevendifferent job interviews with
different roles in differentfields.
You want to learn the trades,you can go talk to the foreman,
you want to learn to be aneducator, go talk to the
principal, you want to learn tobe uh IT guy, go talk to, go

(29:52):
talk to the programmer.
And you practice and you learnabout the trade and you learn
about what is needed uh in thatspecific uh uh area by talking
to the AIs.
And and again, you're you'reyou're you're practicing this in
a low-stakes way before youhave to go out and do it for
real.
So that's that's that's the keyvalue proposition I think that

(30:13):
applies to whether you're doingCTE, whether you're doing uh
math.
Now, as far as like saving,saving money, like like you
mentioned.
So we have simulations thattake place in a clothing store
where you know you're you'reyou're you're practicing the uh
a retail role, and your job isto learn how to talk to an angry
customer.
So you're learning soft skills,you know, in that way.

(30:34):
You're learning how tode-escalate.
Uh we have uh we have a coffeeshop, uh, we have a hospital
floor, we have, you know, uh aconstruction site.
We have areas where we can putstudents into simulations that
where I don't, again, I don'tknow where they would get that
ability to have that experience,to be a nurse in a hospital
doing triage with a bunch ofpatients.

(30:55):
How is that possible?
You know, with um, you know,um, but that's something that
that's an experience that we cangive students.
Uh and you know, and and forthose, again, it's about it's
about teaching the soft skills,it's about developing bedside
manner, uh, being able toprioritize uh, you know, uh
what's uh what what who is thesickest patient to be able to go
back and report to the MD.

(31:15):
So I think that that is theability to give um you know
work-based experiences throughsimulation uh in this manner is
is is is rather unique.
And and you're right.
I think it it I it it it cancan offer a lot of cost savings
in a lot of areas for CTEprograms.

Excellent.
Well, I know that we do have ademo.
I don't know, Eric, if you wantto pull that up, but Austin, is
there anything that you'd liketo add?

No, I was just gonna say that if I as a
listener, I'd be thinking, okay,this all sounds interesting.
What is this about?
So I think it would be a greatopportunity to take a look.
So that is a perfect segue,Alfonso.

Eric Tao (31:51):
Yeah, I know.
Perfect.
Um, first, I guess here is areyou guys able to see uh see the
screen?
Yes.
Um, so what what what you'relooking at here is our our our
our our stack of uh uh modulesand CT and all all of the
different pathways uh that we'rethat we're able to hit uh with
these with these simulations.

(32:11):
And I'll jump into uh what I'llshow you that triage uh one
that I was just talking about.
So this is the hospital floor.
Um every one of our moduleskind of opens here with a
mission brief or a missionoverview.
Here it sets up that you knowyou're you're a head nurse,
there are four patients waitingfor you.
You have to talk to thepatients and assess their

(32:33):
situations and and decide on anorder of treatment before
reporting uh back to thephysician.
Uh and here's your your littleshift briefing where you learn
about the symptoms that eachpatient is having.
And then you go in and you goand actually talk to uh talk to
the patients.

Patient Jenny (32:51):
Uh hey, can someone help me?
I don't feel right.
My chest is it's really tight,like someone's sitting on me.
I'm sweating a lot.
And my arms feel weird.

Eric Tao (33:04):
Jenny, are you okay?
When when did you start feelingthese symptoms?

About 20 minutes.
Yeah.
Twenty minutes ago.
And it's getting worse.

Eric Tao (33:12):
What do you do you think it's something you ate,
potentially?

I I don't know.
I think it's more serious.
My chest it's it's tight.
And can you help me?

Eric Tao (33:22):
Yes, absolutely.
Just hang tight, okay?
We'll be well, I'll I'll gograb the doctor, just sit tight,
okay?
We'll be with you in a moment.

What's happening is, I mean, the
opportunity to actuallypractice.
Now, when a st let's say a 10thgrader, 15, 16 years old, goes
through this, they might have noidea how to do this.
And it might take two or threetries.
They have the opportunity to goback and revisit it because
they might not hit it the firsttime.
Now, the the critical thinkinginvolved after they speak with

(33:51):
after the student speaks withall four patients, they have to
now think about how they'regoing to prioritize.
They're going to talk to thedoctor about that.
So the experiential learning isso potent here that they're
really going to give anopportunity to go through that
process as if they were a headnurse, as if they were working
with that doctor.
And that you just you're justnot going to get there with a

(34:56):
video, with slide decks, withsome of the other types of
things.
Now, in a work-based learningexperience, you could certainly
see what goes on in thehospital, but to get into that
thinking process, it's a perfectcomplement for some of those
hands-on and on site locationexperiences, uh, where they get
a chance to go through some ofthat thinking, the soft skills,

(35:16):
the bedside manner, that empathypiece is a lot, a lot here
that's really beneficial for thestudent in terms of life
skills.

Now, for our audience members that are
listening to the show, guys, Imean, you're missing out.
I mean, this is a greatsimulation that we're seeing
here through Mega Minds.
And I mean, if you get to catchthis on video, please do so.
But I mean, you're actually ina hospital, you got to see a
gurney, there was a patient,you're speaking and interacting
with the patient.
And then of course, now youhave to go to a desk where it'll

(35:47):
ask you once you speak, likeAustin said, once you speak to
those four patients, learninghow to prioritize.
And the first thing that Ithought of is many of the CTE
programs that do offer, youknow, nursing and things of that
sort.
Really, it's uh I understandthat they'll do the hands-on as
far as you know, putting in anIV or maybe learning how to draw
blood, but they really, youknow, can't talk to a mannequin

(36:12):
and the mannequin's gonna replyto them, you know, saying how
they feel.
Maybe they can role-playamongst students, but then
sometimes there isn't that levelof seriousness because it's,
hey, you're there with yourfriend, your peer, and you know,
you'll go through the motions,but to be able to see what I saw
there and the patient reallyalso uh going.

(36:33):
I mean, you can literally hearthe breathing and the way that
they're answering, that reallytakes that learning to another
level.
Where now, like you mentioned,the student has to have a
heightened sense of alertnessand remember what they learn,
have those critical thinkingskills, have those soft skills,
like you mentioned,communication-wise as well.

(36:54):
And then, like you said, theability to go back and say,
okay, which of these uh cases isgonna be my priority?
And that was just in this shortperiod of time.
And that and I'm just blownaway by this.
This is fantastic, Eric.

Eric Tao (37:09):
I think the thing to think also consider is
role-playing is not scalable.
You know, you have to have, ifyou're the teacher, you have to
do a role play with 30 students.
Oh, okay.
That's gonna take more thatmore than a single class period.
You know, our our first one ofour first uh customers was
District 75 in in New York City,and that was the thing that
they mentioned was that, youknow, before before us, they had
to they would have to role playwith each every single one of

(37:31):
their students.
Uh, that's just not a scalable,not only is it not, you know,
very realistic uh to thestudent, but it's just not a
scalable experience.
How many, how many, how manystudents can you get through in
a class period?
But here you could have all ofthe students just uh you know uh
uh up and running immediatelyand and uh into these
simulations.

Uh and and the other thing, like you
mentioned too, through theteacher dashboard, the teacher
is able to see, you know, wherethe student is at and maybe
those scenarios where they maybe struggling.
And again, they're workingtowards that, the communication
skills, maybe using the propervocabulary for that particular
symptom or for that particularprocedure, as you know.

(38:12):
And I mean, I I can only guessthat when you are in there in
real life under all thatpressure, I mean, you've got so
many things uh that you'rethinking about, but this will
give that student thatheightened sense of the reality
of what it would be like to betending to a patient and then
obviously trying to remember atthe same time all the

(38:34):
vocabulary, the procedures, andso on.
So I think that this reallybrings that learning to life in
that wonderful immersive umspace that again to me and for
my the listeners, I mean, justin that short period of time,
this you can actually see howpowerful this can be for your
students.
Austin, anything you'd like toadd to this?

Well, I love what you said about the
heightened sense.
I mean, that's getting into thescience of learning.
And and for those of us whohave spent time with the
attention piece and with reallygetting that engagement piece
in, that they have some sense ofurgency that there's something
real happening, that there'sinformation they need to
collect.
I mean, if it there's just nosubstitute for that.

(39:17):
There's there's to get to thatlevel of the student feels like
they have to be serious aboutthis because this is this is
that kind of a situation.
If it was in an agricultural umcluster and they're thinking
about based upon the weatherconditions and what happened
last year, what they're gonnawhat they're gonna plant this
year and why, and they're gonnahave a chance to speak with an

(39:37):
agronomer or whoever it may be,those different roles.
It's just uh there's that senseof um uh of I mean the
simulation, mimicking reality,and thinking about what the
people in those professions arereally gonna need to think about
in terms of that criticalthinking.
There's a kind of a mix betweencritical thinking and empathy
that that is very powerful forthe students and it really ties

(40:01):
directly to what's going to makethem excited about being in the
space and revisit the space.

Excellent.
That's wonderful.
I I'm gonna kind of turn to, orthis is a nice segue, because a
lot of people talk about AIliteracy, and I and I just
really had to stop and pause alittle bit on that because I was
I just had an episode that werecorded and I I felt, and we
were talking about how everybodytalks about AI literacy and

(40:28):
they mention it.
There's so many posts about it,but it's just one of those
phrases that I hear and I'mlike, which definition is gonna
come up next?
Which definition?
Because everybody has adifferent way of learning or
thinking that AI literacy shouldbe learned.
But I want to ask you because Iknow that through Mega Minds,
you do offer a way to teach AIliteracy, but in 3D per se, in

(40:55):
an immersive way, rather thanjust getting the natural
overview or normal overview ofslides or a video.
So tell me a little bit aboutthat.
Um, Eric, we'll start with you.
Um, you know, where did thatidea come from and what can
students actually do and see tobe engaged and acting.
actually learn AI literacy in ahands-on way per se.

Eric Tao (41:19):
Yeah, absolutely.
I guess first, so we can talkabout um as as a concept and and
you know how how how how howdistricts are going about
adopting it.
And, you know, AI literacy isis is is going to be table
stakes to get a job.
You know, uh kids today in infive years, by the time they're
graduating in the 30s, we don'teven know what the job market's

(41:41):
going to look like.
But what we do know is that themajority of the tasks are going
to be informed by AI and you'regoing to need to know how to
work with AI.
And you're going to need toknow what AI is good at and what
it's not good at.
One of the ways that our our uhand I can I can present I can
uh screen share it why not umone of the ways that we do it uh

(42:01):
uh that the 3D environmentallows for is again to put the
students into the these 10 sothis is uh a virtual simulation
on AI ethics okay so uh in thismodule you learn about why
ethics matter you learn aboutyou know uh the different you

(42:23):
know here you have exerciseswhere you identify what is AI
what is what is generated but Ithink is what is really
interesting here is when we talkabout bias um we actually put
you into a first personsituation where you where the
student experiences being thevictim of bias.
So I'll just show you uh whatit looks like right here.

(42:44):
This is this is a securebasically a school security uh
officer uh um who has uh flaggedthe student for uh uh
inappropriate behavior noticeyour behavior has been flagged
as a potential disruption riskan automated report has been
submitted to the schooladministration possible
consequences include detentionsuspension or expulsion uh why

(43:08):
did you flag me your behaviormatches 82% of prior disruption
patterns fast hallwaytransitions unusual grouping
behavior limited eye contactwith staff this is consistent
with students who later causedclass disruption I mean you're
you're pretty much describingevery student in every single
hallway what how how what kindof data is this and and how why

(43:28):
are you using it to flag me?
My training set includes 10years of incident data collected
from hallway cameras attendancerecords classroom seating
charts and teacher behaviorreports includes location
tracking clothing color patternsaudio tone and color patterns I
don't think this is fair sothen the student goes through
your behavior and then has thereflection here what was Obi

(43:52):
Wan's uh judgment limit fair whyor why not?
Uh do you think that the AIused correct data in its
reasoning explain your reasoningso uh you know it's it's really
we're able to put the studentsinto the shoes um you know uh of
someone and give them anexperience of AI bias.

I'm gonna ask you in the audience how is that
going to lead to deepunderstanding of the concept of
AI bias?
How is it going to lead totransfer compared with um the
teacher talking about itcompared with watching a video
about what AI bias is what'sgoing to be the difference there
in terms of the learningoutcomes for the student no this

(44:32):
is fantastic.

Like right now the first thing I was
thinking of is like well whereare you getting your data from
and yeah I was thinking you knowjust the the comments that it
was making it really got you tothink like hey what's going on
here and again that criticalthinking and understanding now
what bias is maybe studentsdidn't quite understand what
bias is or maybe like youmentioned the video or the slide

(44:55):
you know was just very briefabout what bias is and gives one
single example but here hearinga conversation and now all of a
sudden you get to interact likeuh for our folks that are
listening to this you got tohear that interaction that Eric
uh had with uh OBS one officerfor those of you that are
listening um you know the videouh the as it was speaking I even

(45:18):
I felt like I was gettingsingled out I was like what are
you talking about like you knoweverybody dresses like this or
you can't just because I youknow my eyes or the way that the
my limited eye uh eye contactwith teachers now you're
assuming that I'm gonna be arisk and it really I I'm gonna
say that it really got me likehyped up where I wanted to

(45:38):
answer the question like whatare you like what part of this
is biased and it it really ithelps you internalize this
you're living it you're seeingan example and that really takes
the learning Austin like yousaid to a whole new level and I
think that that's something thatis fantastic that you guys are
doing.

Imagine a Socratic discussion that stems
from this where students had achance to get into some of the
different roles if they were thethe principal or the teacher
how might they respond if it wasbased upon flawed data and get
into different perspectives someof the questions that can come
up for the students I think thisis unbelievable thought or for
discussion that would be a richdiscussion that really will will

(46:17):
bring the students in.
I think that this is I meanagain I keep on going back to it
but the students are going tobe interested in engaging in
this way.
And again what what we're doingin the classroom some of the
things engage some of them don'twe know that but this one I
really think is going to hit thestudents in the right space
that they're gonna be excitedthey're gonna want to be

(46:37):
engaging in mega minds roomsagain and again and we know from
brain-based learning andbrain-based teaching if they
want to be there they're gonnaget a lot more out of it.

Eric Tao (46:46):
Yeah here's I just wanted to show this quick
example there's another uh uhway that we tackle learning
through immersion and this isthis is through also through
empathy so to the right here wehave an it it you get to talk to
an AI who's been unfairlyimpacted by AI when her school
used it to decide who got into aspecial program and you get to
hear her story and ask herquestions about it.

Jordan (47:06):
So let's try it Hey I'm Jordan I can tell you what
happened to me if you'recurious.
It's kind of a weird story.
What would you like to know?

Eric Tao (47:15):
Uh what happened to you?

Jordan (47:16):
Well I applied to this prestigious school leadership
program had strong gradesleadership experience and was
really involved in my communitybut I got denied and later found
out the AI system seemed tofavor applicants from wealthier
schools in certain neighborhoodsit felt really confusing and
disappointing like I wasinvisible.
How does that sound to you ohman that have you that doesn't

(47:37):
sound fair at all.
I I feel so bad for you.
Yeah it was definitely tough.
I felt overlooked and kind ofinvisible even though I met all
the qualifications.
What do you think about how thesystem made decisions in that
way?

Eric Tao (47:50):
Well obviously I don't think it's fair I think they
that they need to uh uh changehow they go about uh picking uh
picking the candidates I totallyget that what changes do you
think would make the processfair or how would you improve
it?

Wow wow wow like uh you know for me right
now just even as a teacher orbeing able to put this in front
of my students just again goingback to the type of
conversations that you're havingthe student is having to think
and they're learning and they'rehearing like a real world
scenario and reallyunderstanding it and again in a

(48:28):
very personal way and maybe in away that may they might have
had that experience but theydidn't know that they had that
experience or maybe they didn'tknow that these experiences
existed and now they get to talkand get that feedback I like
that just this is fantastic tome.
I'm just I'm blown away by thisand again going back to like
what um my uh sorry my friendHuston said is that going back

(48:53):
to the classroom and and havingthose conversations go even
deeper and wider really takesthat learning to that whole
other level.
So this is something that isfantastic.

I totally agree with you if you think about the
student experience and if youthink about the chance that they
know somebody who isdiscriminated against in some
way somebody who was in a storeand the security guard was was
after them a little bit morebased upon certain appearance or
certain clothing that they haduh I think that this touches
upon a lot of real lifeexperiences in ways that that

(49:25):
tugs at the heartstrings.
I mean this is getting intosocial emotional learning this
is getting into empathy this isgetting into uh you know about
discrimination and just andracism and so many other aspects
of society this could beconnected to current events I
mean imagine the students gothrough this and then you know
what for homework find somethingin the news that connected with

(49:48):
what Jordan was experiencing.
Wow I could just imagine theexplosive conversation would sue
the next day it'll be reallyexciting.
It'll be one of those momentswhere and all of us teachers
have felt that you just feel theenergy in the room right and
that's where I think this canthis can lead to that in
exciting ways for for studentsto get a different way to learn
and a deeper way to learn aboutbias, which is exciting and

(50:10):
important.

Yeah, most definitely and again for our
listeners please make sure youdo watch the video so you can
see how Eric and and the team atMega Minds have laid this out
so you can see that immersiveexperience but just listening to
it I hope that you get a senseof what the students will be
able to interact with and howthey'll be able to learn in and

(50:34):
not just as a consumer butthey're actively learning
they're replying they'reresponding they're learning
they're collaborating you knowit it it really takes that to
that next level so I'm reallyexcited to see from 2023 to now
Eric the work that you andAustin and the rest of the Mega
Minds team have done to reallytake the platform to that next

(50:57):
level and really you knowgetting future ready yourselves
through Mega Mind to get ourstudents future ready.
You know I know that thatphrase gets thrown around a lot
but I I think that this issomething that is fantastic and
much needed now within oureducation space and so I love
this.
As we get closer to wrapping upI did want to ask you um Eric I

(51:19):
know that you had theopportunity to make it out to
the White House earlier thisyear.
So I want you to tell me alittle bit about how that
experience was because I knowthat I did see some other
familiar faces also there withinyou know kind of our circle of
of uh colleagues and peers andso on.
But I want to know if yourexperience what was it how was

(51:41):
or uh how was your experienceand what was the message for our
education system as far as AIgenerative AI within our
schools?

Eric Tao (51:53):
Yeah well I think uh first of all we were we were
invited out to the White Houseuh for the Presidential AI
challenge announcement and weour uh Mega Minds is a signatory
company to the AI task force sowe you know we have offered up
uh the AI ethics module that yousaw as and more we have a whole
six module bundle uh thatcovers all the different aspects

(52:13):
uh uh of uh AI literacy uhwe've offered that that up for
free for every single school anddistrict uh uh in America uh to
use um not only to participatein things like the Presidential
AI Challenge but because wethink it's a very important uh
uh skill for uh uh for forstudents for students to to to
to learn and you know as Imentioned earlier it's it's AI

(52:36):
literacy is going to be tablestakes right to get a job uh
when by the time these kids uhgraduate uh so being there uh
you it was you know no matterwhat you think of the the
current administration I believewhat they're doing with the
this challenge and with thiswith their efforts to promote AI
literacy uh in K-12, there'sonly positives there.

(52:57):
And I think you know the factthat uh they're taking a
proactive stance is going to geta lot of districts thinking
differently and maybe perhapsacting on it um you know where
they might be you know morehesitant otherwise um you know
we'll see what the net result isuh but I think it's a positive
a net positive thing for sure.

And it's it's not it's not easy necessarily as
a teacher I mean I've delvedpretty deeply into AI and I know
you know Alphonse you have aswell and and we've got some some
ways pathways and some umspecific channels that we can
think of to to teach it but fora lot of either schools or or
teachers who are not quite sureof how to approach it the Mega

(53:36):
Minds AI literacy bundle is justa great turnkey solution.
We're offering a really easypath to to learn about some of
the basics to learn about theethical unbiased issues to learn
about some of the careers andthen to eventually develop a
solution to a real worldproblem.
So it wraps in uh in a capstoneproject as a PBL and we've
offered that up as a way forteachers just to be able to plug

(53:59):
and play with it.
We're also partnering withcode.org on their Hour of AI
next week and we're very proudto be a partner of theirs and
we're offering up the AI ethicsmodule plus the rest of the
bundle but the ethics module asa great way for the students to
get some uh great exposure tothat.
So um you know the our goalhere is to really be uh helping

(54:21):
in terms of again we've said wetalk about future ready but this
has now become an essentialskill we see it in so many
different aspects of society inShopify that the employees need
to justify if they want to hiresomebody their department that
the AI can't do that job.
We see just so many examples ofit and so to be able to provide
a turnkey solution the studentsare going to be excited about
we're we're very proud to beable to offer that to students

(54:43):
in the United States.

Excellent that is fantastic and so just to
clarify like so then anybodylike not not just through this
year but the the AI literacybundle will be available to any
educator um at no cost.

Eric Tao (55:00):
At no cost.

They just come to our website go to
megaminds.com uh fill out aGoogle form and we provision uh
accounts for uh all however manyteachers they want uh uh using
uh using Z my gosh that isfantastic we'll make sure that
we link that in the show notestoo that way our listeners
anybody like just from classroomteachers to district uh

(55:22):
decision makers that listen tothe show they'll be able to find
that link and then go to goahead and redirect them there to
Mega Minds.
That way they can fill that outfor their district and all
their campuses because I thinkthat this is going to be
something that is wonderful andit's a great way to learn like
you said offer that turnkeysolution and also a way that the

(55:42):
teacher I feel would not feeloverwhelmed that they're gonna
have to be creating something orbe presenting as they may not
feel comfortable but now there'ssomething that is there that is
available that the students canjust easily hop on and start
having these conversations andstart learning uh about AI
literacy.
And I think that this isfantastic.

(56:03):
Thank you so much, Eric umAustin, thank you so much for
being here today and justsharing the amazing work that
you're doing through Mega Minds.
I really appreciate it andwe'll make sure we link your
info and the in the show notestoo as well.
So anybody that is listeningwill make sure connect with you
Eric and connect with you myfriend all the way in Colombia
Austin which is fantastic and Imean thank you so much.

But uh it's our pleasure I mean just to to
listen to the way that you canjust have some insightful
questions and comments about howwe're going about it.
It's just it's just incredibleto see the way your brain works
around looking at something andbeing able to analyze how this
would really the differentclassrooms and different
settings it's it's a pleasure toto speak with uh other

(56:49):
educators like yourself.

So excellent thank you appreciate
it but hey we're not done yet asyou know we always love to end
the show with the last threequestions now Austin you're
already familiar with thesequestions I know you maybe
people if you guys listen toepisode 340 especially if you're
Spanish speaking because theepisode is in Spanish I know
Austin answered some of thosequestions there.

(57:10):
But again now you can probablydo the same answers in English
Austin for all our friends.
Eric I know you're familiarwith the format uh as far as
these last three questions solet's go ahead and start with
you Austin.
We'll start first here so as weknow every superhero has a
weakness or a pain point.

So for Superman kryptonite was his weakness so
I want to ask you Austin in thecurrent state of education what
would you say is your currentedu kryptonite me personally as
a as uh as an educator I wouldsay um I've been um I've been
playing around with um I've beenin AI circles I've actually got
the last session tonight andstruggling with developing my

(57:52):
first AI agent and I think it'sworking through my frustration
and and sticking with it that'sbeen I think that's that's been
my my I think my weakness latelyit's uh I'm I'm not the most
technical I'm I'm fairlytechnical but it's been it's
been a big challenge and I'veenjoyed it and I've been really
trying to document the processof how does it feel to not be

(58:15):
able to get to where I want.
And so that's been somethingI've been trying to turn from a
weakness into something I canshowcase and highlight saying
you know what I could bevulnerable.
I can say I'm really notgetting this to where I want it
to be but it's definitely been achallenge.

Oh I like that it's it's got productive
struggle written all over it.
After our episode aboutproductive struggle talk about
going through productivestruggle myself but it's all
part of that learningexperience.
And now once you kind of getover that hump it's like whoa
like I got this we did it wecame over it and now we continue
to learn and move forward.
So it's awesome.

Eric Tao (58:49):
All right Eric how about yourself what in the
current state of education wouldyou say is your current
educryptonite my my personaleducryptonite or or okay yeah
your personal I think it's justum you know I think it's just uh
for for myself I think it'sjust overcoming my fears you

(59:09):
know and over you know tryingtrying trying to get a product
out into the market is not isnot easy.

And you know it's it's uh it's it's it's
a roller coaster every day youknow certainly with you know
imposter syndrome you know andand you know there's there's a
lot of that uh involved so Ithink that's that's my
kryptonite is just overcoming uhjust just putting my head down
and just trying to keep pushingforward um that's that's that's

(59:35):
that's the way I deal with it atleast there you go and you know
what Eric I really applaud thatanswer I mean for somebody like
you that has your backgroundand then of course like you
mentioned now building aplatform and putting it out
there just showing thatvulnerability and for all our
listeners I mean you're talkingto a founder here and sometimes
you know we see what's onLinkedIn of course we see the

(59:57):
successes we see like hey theplatform's doing great hey Eric
was at the White House and so onbut to hear somebody from with
your background and doing whatyou're doing and still say that
you are struggle with thatimposter syndrome I think that's
something that is very usefulfor not only myself but for our
listeners too to say hey youknow what it's like I'm not the

(01:00:18):
only one that might be goingthrough that and struggling and
you know you just work throughit and move forward.
So thank you so much forshowing that uh being a little
vulnerable there too as well andAustin you too you know showing
that vulnerability there youknow creating your your uh agent
and so on so it's fantastichearing this from just amazing
people that I know people seelike that finished polished

(01:00:40):
product there on LinkedIn oranywhere that you're posting.
All right question number twoEric I'm gonna go ahead and
start with you Eric if you couldhave a billboard right smack in
the middle of New Jersey whereeverybody can see it what would
your billboard have on it andwhy okay well obviously it would
be about mega minds but thetagline would be make school

(01:01:00):
cool that's that's that's that'sit and it would be just mega
mines make school cool.

Eric Tao (01:01:04):
Uh it's that I think it speaks to uh the engagement
factor that Austin's beentalking about this episode you
know making making kids excitedabout learning again Again, you
know, and and and that has adramatic effect.
Um, you know, I I will uh onething I didn't mention, but the
intervention study that that wewere talking about earlier, that
teacher noted the attendanceimproved throughout the

(01:01:27):
semester.
Her kids started coming uhbecause they were enjoying uh um
learning.
So that that's a making schoolcool is important.

Dr. Alfonso Mendoza (01:01:35):
That's a win.
I love it.
I'll take it.
That's a great billboard.
All right, Austin, in Colombia,right smack in the middle of
Colombia, where everybody thatdrives by or walks by can see
what would your billboard say orhave on it and why?

Austin Levinson (01:01:49):
Well, it would probably be a newfangled
billboard with a new technologywhere paint would be actually
flying out of the billboard,right?
And it would say get messy andbe willing to get messy and try
something new and take a risk.
And I think that normalizingmessy and failure is a message
that we just can't hear enough.
So it would say get messy, andthere'd be kids with paint

(01:02:12):
everywhere and different things,and adults and a superintendent
and different people allgetting messy together.
I love it.

That is great, and because it is, I
mean, it does get messy, but inthe end, you know, you get to
have fun and you learn from allthat messiness too, as well.
And it's all part of learning,and I love it.
All right.
Last question, Austin.
I'll start off with you.
If you could trade places witha single person for a day, who
would that be and why?

Austin Levinson (01:02:38):
Single person for a day.
I would say uh that I wouldhmm.
Well, I'm I'm a I'm a big I'm abig foodie.
Some of you might know me thatI'm a very big foodie.
I love to cook, I love going toto supermarkets and public
markets.
And uh I I love to trade placeswith Gordon Ramsey and have the

(01:03:01):
opportunity to get intodifferent kitchens and expose
myself to different chefs anddifferent people.
So that would be that would beme.
Uh just to learn and seethrough his eyes how he
approaches different scenarios,how he combines ingredients in
creative ways.
That would be a wild and novelexperience for me.

Nice.
Great choice.
All right, Eric, how aboutyourself?
If you can trade places with aperson for a day, who would that
be and why?

Eric Tao (01:03:26):
Okay, I'm gonna cheat a little bit and talk about uh
an experiment that we're doing,running right now on our
platform.
So we are uh bringing deceasedcharacters back to life with
little a with their AI avatars.
So we are doing experimentsright now.
We have a room where we'vebasically brought back to life
impressionist painter uh uh I'msorry, uh painters.

(01:03:48):
Like you can talk to SalvadorDali, uh, you can talk to uh
different folks, you you know,and so uh we're doing some
experiments where you're able tohave conversations with
historical figures about howwhat they think about current
day situations.
So I think, you know, I I youknow, and that got me thinking

(01:04:10):
is you know, we're we're we'recreating a um module for our
Martin Luther King Day, uh,where you actually get to talk
to Dr.
King.
And you know, it that just gotme thinking about wow, what what
you know what potential we havehere to really, you know, uh to
to talk about bringing learningto life.
Um you know, to to really putput that uh so that's all

(01:04:31):
coming.
So look out for that in in in acouple of in a in a few weeks.
But but um uh so it's notnecessarily about trading
places, but it's about bringingthose people to uh to me.

Nice.
Hey, I you know, I I didn'texpect that twist on it, like
you know, asking them about howyou know they see the world
today.
I think that's something thatis fantastic because usually
it's like, okay, we bring themback, let's talk about
impressionism, let's talk aboutthis and so on.
But I think that's somethingthat's great, you know, part of
learning.
And again, like you mentioned,just being able to have a

(01:05:04):
historical figure that you canengage with and have that those
conversations.
Who would have thought, youknow, that this is where we
would be?
But obviously, you know, wekeep moving forward and the
technology is just gettingbetter, and then we have some
wonderful people such asyourselves, you know, both in
the ed tech space and theeducation space that are just

(01:05:25):
bringing that immersiveimmersiveness into the learning.
And I think that's somethingthat is great.
And I look forward to seeingwhat Mega Minds brings in 2026
for the education space.
So thank you both for beinghere and just sharing just this
amazing platform, the amazinglearning that we just got to see
today and experience.

(01:05:45):
So thank you, Eric, and thankyou, Austin, for today.
We really appreciate you.
And for our audience members,thank you so much for being uh
just amazing supporters of theshow.
Please make sure that you visitour website at myedtech.life
where you can check out thisamazing episode and the other
340 plus episodes that we have,where I promise you you'll find

(01:06:07):
some little gems that you cansprinkle onto what you are
already doing great.
And again, a big shout out toour sponsors, Book Creator,
Yellow Dig, uh, Eduaid, andPeelback Education.
Thank you so much for believingin our mission.
And until next time, myfriends, don't forget, stay
techy.

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How Mega Minds Brings Real-World CTE to Classrooms ft. Eric Tao & Austin Levinson | My EdTech Life 349

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}How Mega Minds Brings Real-World CTE to Classrooms ft. Eric Tao & Austin Levinson | My EdTech Life 349