December 1, 2024 • 31 mins
A conversation with Erin Stynchula, whose brother was sucked into the rabbit holes of MAGA, QAnon & other conspiracies.
Now, she's seeking reconciliation and healing.
P.S. Erin is from Springfield, OH, and she assures us no Haitians are eating people's pets.
To view our conversation at the MeidasTouch Network, please visit the below link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=en4_KsYNRyI&list=PLX_rWdQSOcZMZjdaSQUkgFlegPNmGSdRk&index=11
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
The social media content reposted by the Republican nominee in the last 36 hours.
(00:05):
How do you explain it?
How do you explain why he is reposting content from QAnon and this misogynistic content?
Again, I will say I have not spoken to President Trump about that content this morning,
and I don't think Americans are concerned with social media posts.
Hey, guys, Rich coming to you here with leaving MAGA on the Midas Touch Network.
(00:28):
We have for you another family and friend video for you today, a testimonial.
I just want to say thank you to all of you out there who are reaching out to us in the
comments section. Be sure to subscribe to Midas Touch Network for our leaving MAGA videos.
Getting in touch with us after watching our testimonials, not just of those who have left
(00:52):
MAGA, but friends and family, and are coming to us saying, I want to tell a story.
I have a story. I want to give a testimonial.
I think there is just something really cathartic about an opportunity for people to tell a story
that maybe they've had bottled up for quite some time. We keep putting on our socials,
(01:13):
hey, if there's anyone out there who wants to speak with us, please let us know.
We're happy to have a conversation and give you a chance to talk about your life pre and post MAGA.
So I want to bring someone in who did reach out to us after I put on our socials about wanting
to speak with everyone out there. Her name is Erin Stinchula. I think I said that correct when
(01:36):
we bring her in here. She's going to correct us on her name later on. So, Erin, thank you so much
for being here. I put out there on my socials, hey, anyone out there with friends or family in MAGA,
you feel like your relationship has adversely changed. You're looking to try to find some
reconciliation with friends and loved ones. We want to hear from you. And you reached out to us.
(02:02):
And we've had a chance to speak privately. I want to ask you about your relationship you mentioned
with your brother. And as we start here, first off, it takes a lot of bravery to do this. I'm
not really a believer in fearlessness. We all have fear, but we have to muster up the courage. And
(02:24):
you being here, I think makes you a very strong and trepid woman. So we appreciate that. It means
a lot for us for you to be here with us. So tell me about your brother, your relationship with him
before MAGA. What was it like? What was what's what's he like? And what was that dynamic like
before Trump came along? Yeah, absolutely. Thank you for this opportunity. I greatly
(02:47):
appreciate it, Rich. My brother and I are two and a half years apart. We grew up in suburban Ohio,
and I looked up to him greatly. I'll never forget there was a moment when we were I was probably
nine and our bedrooms face each other and we were getting ready to go to sleep. And he said to me
(03:09):
from across the hallway, just think right now is the only time that it's going to be 611
on this day. And I thought to myself, he is the smartest person I know, he just gets it
and is such a big thinker about life. And he is. But in recent years, it's unfortunately that,
(03:35):
that thirst for looking for the big picture and what's out there and what there is to see has been
taken over by MAGA and QAnon. It started with the Flat Earth theory and conspiracy theories.
(03:56):
And then it just started leaking into political theories. And the Facebook posts started getting
more and more in line with MAGA. And then they started lining up perfectly with MAGA. And I
remember the first day that they blatantly said Trump 2024. I just thought to myself,
(04:17):
that's, here it is. It's, it's real. This is, this is not, this is not him dipping his toes into
conspiracy theories anymore. This is straight up bought into MAGA. And it has only gotten deeper
and deeper, just constantly on YouTube. And I don't even know what other social media forums,
(04:42):
but man, when those marching orders come out with what the right wants him to think he is hook,
line and sinker on it, and it's the truth. And there's, there's no debate. And there's just no
going back from whatever they are telling him in the media that he is consuming. And it has been
(05:05):
very difficult to watch someone who I know is an incredibly smart person just exists in a different
reality. There's no other way to say it. It's a different reality.
So thank you for sharing that because there's something I want to hone in on for a moment.
And I think this is really so important to these videos we do and the work of leaving MAGA
(05:29):
in our collaboration with Midas Touch is that there is this, I think it's fair to say it's a
pretty pervasive belief amongst a lot of people who are very anti-MAGA, anti-Trump. And I understand
those very strong feelings, but part of the strong feelings that I think people often
misunderstand is that they think that everyone in the MAGA community are these dumb, stupid adults.
(05:56):
Yep. And in reality, that's not true. Of course, like any large group, there are such individuals
and there are bad people in there as well. But even from my own time in MAGA, I would say that
I was in that community for seven years and they were my second family and I talked to them
every single day. There was not a day that went by for years. And a lot of the people I was close
(06:20):
with, they were successful attorneys and professionals and worked in the world of finance. They had
public sector jobs. They were Ivy League graduates. And I say this to others and
there's always this a little bit of mouth agape look like, oh, I'm going to go to college.
Look like, oh, I didn't realize that there were people like that in MAGA. And I always say, well,
(06:45):
I'm glad you're, you're talking to us now because it's important to know that intelligent, smart
people actually can succumb to these conspiracies and these mythologies. And I'm hearing all over
again, it's like the old maxim about deja vu all over again, Erin. You're talking about QAnon
(07:10):
and you're talking about the media consumed and you're talking about videos and all of these other
incestuous conspiracies that there's this Appian way of conspiracies for those in MAGA that just
the destination tends to be that Trump is this person who is this political savior.
(07:35):
And that feeling is real within the MAGA community. And I emphasize this word community
because I just think it's so relevant to this discussion that people understand that. And so
when you're, you're watching your brother gradually and then suddenly all at once
start to get subsumed into this world, this, the MAGA right wing mythological world,
(08:01):
his beliefs are sincere. He genuinely believes what he does or the beliefs that he holds true
and adheres to he, he does in his heart feel that they're, that they're true.
But there's a part of this that we talked about that I want to ask you now about some of the,
the dehumanization that manifests itself as a result of, of just falling prey to so many of
(08:30):
these beliefs. If you can talk about that, because I think it's another really important point
that these mythologies, like they did for me, they, they do something to us and they change us and
they make us feel that those who are not with us are these existential enemies. Your brother
felt that way, feels that way. Now it's how I felt as well. If you can talk about that, please.
(08:51):
Yeah, absolutely. It is so disheartening to hear the word illegals come out of my brother's mouth
and in such a derogatory way, these are fellow humans. These are, these are people who contribute
(09:11):
to our economy, who pay taxes, who are the backbone of our society and to hear them called
illegals is, it's, it's gut wrenching. I have long been a ally of the LGBTQ plus community and to
(09:34):
hear trans people talked about in such a dehumanized way, when they are just trying to live
their most, to words you said earlier, fearless and brave self. For someone to get to the point
of saying, I would like to start training, I, I am feeling like this is a, a change I need to make
(09:59):
in my life to live my authentic self. And then to have YouTube guys and right wing strategists
take the trans identity and trans group and dehumanize them in such a terrible way,
(10:22):
in such a terrible way, just to mobilize voters is, it is so difficult to watch. And I know for me,
one thing that has been really difficult is knowing that the right wing
(10:42):
think tanks and talking heads will speak so poorly about especially the trans community.
But then the think tanks will give interviews to the New York Times and say, we specifically put
the trans issue out there because it stuck to the wall. It mobilized people. But then the think,
(11:07):
the talking heads will say, oh, don't listen, don't listen to New York Times, they're terrible,
they're, they're terrible. So they give them their talking points, right, to go out and yell into the
world. And then they give the real talking points to the media, who they then say discredit. So just
(11:28):
watching the circle of how these dehumanizing points come out and become the political talking
points is, it's fascinating. Yes, but there are actual lives on the line.
And I will say I can talk, I can talk on any point on this dehumanizing part, because it is,
(11:53):
you hit it on the head. It's, it's, I've tried every, every way that I can think of to counteract
the especially the dehumanizing part of, of this whole journey. I've tried compassion. I've tried
reason. I've tried facts. I've tried sending that New York Times article and saying, look, here is
(12:17):
the actual guy who said, we don't actually care about trans rights as a problem. That it's not,
it's not a problem. We just know that it makes people mad. And so it's, it's this constant state
of panic. That is, it's, it's, you know, the next, the next, the next, the next, the next,
(12:38):
it's, you know, the next, oh, oh, yeah, there they are again. Here they are. And they're doing it
again. And that's right. So to live close to Springfield, Ohio, and to watch all of that unfold
with, you know, the cats and the dogs and the geese and to be on the Reddit page where the picture
(13:03):
of the goose originated from and to watch that person have their life uprooted because they
posted that picture that then got picked up by whoever and turned into this whole mythology
about people eating dogs when it was a man who was taking roadkill off the side of the road,
(13:27):
being a good Samaritan, someone snapped a picture because they thought it was weird,
put it on the internet. And then it became a, a cornerstone piece of the debate.
Right. It was a, it was a key component of our presidential election talked about at the VP
debate, the one debate with vice president Harris, president-elect Trump, and the entire
(13:52):
eating cats and dogs was started by a lady who know who knew that it was new. Yes.
In Springfield, they're eating the dogs, the people that came in, they're eating the cats,
they're eating, they're eating the pets of the people that live there. And this is what's
happening in our country. I realize that what I'm about to say could be construed by some as
(14:18):
defending the lady who did it, but it's not. So I just want to say that the reason that she didn't
give second thought to doing that is because there is something about the MAGA and right-wing
mythologies that actually truly do sever people from reality. And yes, intelligent,
(14:39):
good people with integrity can find themselves over time detached from reality because I don't
care, Aaron, how I say this all the time, when I champion empathy for those who are in the MAGA
community, I don't care how intelligent or independent minded or impenetrable one's mind
(15:02):
is. If somebody hears and sees enough lies over time, they are going to start to wonder if they're
true. And once they start to wonder because they're just hearing them ad infinitum over and over and
over again, it becomes a lot easier to start to believe these lies. And I know for people out
(15:25):
there who are saying, well, I don't understand, I never, I never believe those lies. How could
anyone believe them? I would say to them, I give you credit for not, for not shaping your life
around a bunch of lies. But you said panic before. And I will tell you that when I was in MAGA, as
the, as the winning side, not the losing side, as the winning side in 2016, I still, along with my
(15:52):
fellow MAGA Americans felt constantly panic in these perpetual states of desperation and despair
and hopelessness. And, you know, even to use a fancy philosophical term, these feelings of nihilism,
and that was, that was us on the winning side. So imagine on the losing side, how all of that,
(16:17):
all of the above there is just further exacerbated because now you're on the, now you're on the side
where liberals and liberalism are winning. The social media content reposted by the Republican
nominee in the last 36 hours, how do you explain it? How do you explain why he is reposting content
from QAnon and this misogynistic content?
(16:40):
Again, I will say I have not spoken to President Trump about that content this morning,
and I don't think Americans are concerned with social media posts, but you said misogynistic,
I assume you're also going to say that the posts were demeaning to women. I think what's demeaning
to women is what has been allowed to happen over the last four years. I think what's demeaning to
women is the fact that Kamala Harris and Joe Biden are allowing an evasion of illegal criminals into
(17:05):
our country, many of whom have proven to be rapists and murderers. I think what's demeaning to
women like Laken Riley and Jocelyn Nungre and Rachel Moran is the fact that they are no longer
with us because of the policies of this administration. And that is what voters and your
viewers care about, John. Well, look, I think the voters can care about a number of things.
(17:25):
And when there's content being reposted that uses QAnon slogans and when there's content being
reposted that uses QAnon slogans and when there are these sexist misogynistic posts, it's interesting
to me that you can't, you're not, you don't think they're bad. You have no problem with them.
I didn't say that. I said that I don't think voters care. I think that voters care about the,
(17:48):
I said, I said, I care about what's happening to our country right now. I care about the fact that
as a new mother, baby formula is 30% higher and costs more than it did under President Trump.
I care about the fact that we have a vice president or vice president today who wants to be the
president of the United States that hasn't sit down for an interview in more than 40 days to
(18:09):
explain her positions. And she will be sitting down for an interview today with Dana Bash along
with governor Tim Walz. And I just wanted our viewers to know also, cause you have a history
of this, of work in the refs here. Obviously, Dana will do a great job. As you know, she always
does. And we appreciate you being with us this morning, Carolyn Leavitt from the Trump campaign.
(18:29):
Thank you. Okay. So we know, Aaron, what your brother had said since 2015, 2016,
what about this past election? What was he, what was he saying? What was he posting? What were you
observing? I'm taking it by your laugh that it was some, some pretty absurd and outlandish posts,
(18:51):
but what was he, what were you observing? What were you seeing that he was doing? Anything and
everything, every marching order that was given. I mean, there were times where he would post nine,
10 times an hour. You know, we knew when Greg was awake because he was parroting everything that was
said by MAGA. I will say the one thing that really caught me off guard is the use of AI
(19:14):
to depict all parties involved. So Kamala Harris in many of the YouTube cover clip arts and,
and things was always depicted as screaming, crying these dramatic black metal looking tears.
(19:35):
And she was always raged. And what always also caught me off guard was they always depicted her
with cleavage, which she does not do herself when dressing. So the hyper feminization, but also the
angry woman trope that was unfortunately persuasive to the right. But then on the other
(20:02):
hand, you had Donald Trump, who was often depicted as a superhero, hyper masculine, wearing a
MAGA, kind of like Captain America suit and has a shield, often has a trophy if it is him in his suit.
Images of the White House with the TRUMP letters being lowered because he's taking back the White
(20:29):
House, Barack Obama also with those weird metal tears, seeing that those images over and over again,
that that solidified that, at least for him and so many others, that's how they pictured Kamala Harris.
That's how they pictured Barack Obama, Nancy Pelosi, anyone that you can think of on the left,
(20:51):
was given this caricature of rage and defeat all at the same time, they knew exactly what they were
doing with those images and pair that with what is being said. It is so incredibly powerful.
And I will say very quickly, the one thing that really bothered me about how Kamala Harris was
(21:19):
portrayed, I made the point to my brother that every time he put her down, he was putting me down.
Every time he called her unqualified, he was calling me unqualified, because if a woman can't
run for president because she's unqualified, even though she's her resume is out of this world,
things that I will never achieve and that's okay, she's done it. But to say that she's not qualified,
(21:46):
that she's stupid, that she's low IQ, that that I could not, I could not, I could not, I could not
dismiss the feeling of then that's how he feels about me. And that was also one of the harder
components of watching this election season. What did he say to that? When you made that comment,
(22:09):
deflected it that he was talking about her, not me. No, no, it took every ounce of my being not
to saying I'm every woman, it's all in me. But, but it's true, you put down one woman, you put down
it's true, you put down one woman, you're putting them all down. That's that's how misogyny works.
You see, I think that I think the deflection. Yeah, it, it does reflect that deep, deep down,
(22:38):
there, there is a as much as I might say, detached from reality, there is still some recognition
deep down that even when I was in MAGA, there were there were times that I criticized Trump privately
with other MAGA Americans. And I always say MAGA Americans and not MAGA Republicans, because
(23:00):
I feel like I want to be inclusive and, and talking about those I used to break bread with
and would go to holiday parties, or kids birthday parties, etc. And, and the devotion to Trump,
because again, for a lot of viewers out there and people I meet on a day to day basis, and they ask
and they say, I don't understand the devotion, the devotion is really because Trump is the leader of
(23:21):
this community. There, there has not been a community aspect on the right, when it comes to
politics. And even though MAGA itself is not novel and new, like, like you said, not. It's true, not
everybody in MAGA are racist and misogynistic, most aren't, a lot have valid concerns. It's just
(23:45):
that the ire that they feel, which is, which is understandable in some contexts, their ire is
directed at the, at the wrong people in the wrong groups. And that's one of the successes of all
those lies that my at my vignette at the DNC that aired on night one, I said that Trump's toxic
superpower is his lying. It's very, very difficult to compete against shamelessness
(24:13):
and ad nauseam lying, even for you as someone close to your brother. You're in competition
with all of this, which gets me thinking something I always like to ask everyone who does these
videos, both of those who leave MAGA and friends and family. In this context of this relationship,
(24:34):
with your brother, you had said that you'd be willing to share this testimonial with him. And
I thank you for doing that because he may have deflected that one time. It's going to be a
little harder to deflect when he sees this, but we're not here to, we're not here to cast
aspersions on him or pass judgment, right? We want to try to restore the relationship. But if you met
(24:54):
Donald Trump in the context here of this, the strained relationship with your brother,
what would you say to the president elect? You could say anything you want. You could say anything
you want about what's happened. I'm curious about what you might want to say to him. You know,
let loose here. We're a family program, so, you know, keep it PG. But what is it that you'd say
(25:22):
to him? I'm really curious about your thought process on this.
How much time do I have with him? I think I would absolutely have to start by saying,
is this all worth it? Is this really all worth it to you? It's fascinating, right? You know,
(25:44):
there's a common adage on the left where we say he's doing this to stay out of prison. And maybe so.
But is it really, really worth it? And honestly, I would just have a lot of questions for him that
I'm sure he would deflect. But I would like to know, you know, how did this start? I know that
(26:07):
he wanted to run for president, but now there are so many obvious ties that are just dark, so dark
I want to know what kind of world he thinks he's living for or leaving for his son, for his
(26:28):
granddaughter who spoke at the RNC and, you know, lots of people went to social media to follow her
and keep up on her because she struck a chord with them. You know, are the insults really worth it?
Is this the type of person that you want your son to have as their doctor? Is this the person that
(26:52):
you want me to have as my doctor, right? Like, how does he not see that his influence is impacting
every single sector of America and not in a good way, right? So he's, the influence has absolutely
(27:16):
no bounds and there's no depth to this entire orchestration that he has made. I, I think
he has made. I honestly, that is a hard question what I would ask him. It really is because I feel
(27:45):
like I'd be met with the weave pretty quickly. But I just, I really think it all comes down to,
was it really all worth it? Is it really worth it? I mean, he could be skating into a beautiful
retirement right now, but no, he's not. And it's so frustrating. And I've thought about that question
(28:07):
myself and depending on my mood in any given day, I may have a different answer, but I do feel like
since I asked it and I usually will ask everyone who does these videos, you know, I'll offer it
here for viewers that I think of all the possibilities of answers, the one that I would,
(28:32):
what I would say to him is I would say that I was very much
devoted to the cause as someone in the community, but I would ask him what he thinks about the fact
that I left with remorse and have actually, we've created an organization, we're collaborating,
(28:56):
getting to meet someone such as yourself and so many others as a result of leaving MAGA,
you know, how does that, how might that make you feel? No, he might say, I don't care. Well, I care,
but I feel like that's why, and I, if I had met you when I was in MAGA, I would have thought,
(29:18):
I would have thought what your brother did. And so I'm going to, so I'm going to ask her
and to put you on the spot and I'm going to say that after you get a chance to show this video to
your brother, I'm going to check back in with you and want to find out from you just how he took it,
how he received this. And I've got a feeling it's going to be, it's going to be hard for him to
(29:41):
ignore this. It's easy to ignore statements and what's said online. So I just want to thank you
for being here. I know that this is hard to do this. You are a strong and intrepid woman. And
again, I know your brother deep down, I want to say to him, as he sees this, that I don't agree
(30:01):
with a lot of the rhetoric that is said about he and other Trump voters. I think that there does
need to actually be more of a dialogue between people who disagree with each other, but we also
have to agree on basic sets of facts and we need to move away from dehumanizing. And I don't think
(30:22):
it's just the right who dehumanizes. There's, it's, there's, it's not of equal frequency,
but there's enough that goes around that comes from, from those to the, to the left of Trump and
MAGA as well. So just, it means a lot for us to be here with you and for you to be telling this
story and this testimonial. Tell us where Erin Stinchula from Ohio, where can everyone find you
(30:45):
on your social media? Yeah. As a proud childless cat lady, I am Erin says meow on pretty much
every forum, especially threads, really loving threads right now. So Erin says meow. Okay. Thank
you. I appreciate it. Erin, you being here with us. Thanks so much. Thank you. Take care. Have you
left MAGA or do you know anyone who's got remorse about supporting Trump or do you have a friend or
(31:08):
a relative who's in the MAGA community? We want to hear from you. Be sure to reach out to us at
leaving MAGA.org as always. We appreciate your guys support and watching today. Thanks again.
The social media content reposted by the Republican nominee in the last 36 hours.
(00:05):
How do you explain it?
How do you explain why he is reposting content from QAnon and this misogynistic content?
Again, I will say I have not spoken to President Trump about that content this morning,
and I don't think Americans are concerned with social media posts.
Hey, guys, Rich coming to you here with leaving MAGA on the Midas Touch Network.
(00:28):
We have for you another family and friend video for you today, a testimonial.
I just want to say thank you to all of you out there who are reaching out to us in the
comments section. Be sure to subscribe to Midas Touch Network for our leaving MAGA videos.
Getting in touch with us after watching our testimonials, not just of those who have left
(00:52):
MAGA, but friends and family, and are coming to us saying, I want to tell a story.
I have a story. I want to give a testimonial.
I think there is just something really cathartic about an opportunity for people to tell a story
that maybe they've had bottled up for quite some time. We keep putting on our socials,
(01:13):
hey, if there's anyone out there who wants to speak with us, please let us know.
We're happy to have a conversation and give you a chance to talk about your life pre and post MAGA.
So I want to bring someone in who did reach out to us after I put on our socials about wanting
to speak with everyone out there. Her name is Erin Stinchula. I think I said that correct when
(01:36):
we bring her in here. She's going to correct us on her name later on. So, Erin, thank you so much
for being here. I put out there on my socials, hey, anyone out there with friends or family in MAGA,
you feel like your relationship has adversely changed. You're looking to try to find some
reconciliation with friends and loved ones. We want to hear from you. And you reached out to us.
(02:02):
And we've had a chance to speak privately. I want to ask you about your relationship you mentioned
with your brother. And as we start here, first off, it takes a lot of bravery to do this. I'm
not really a believer in fearlessness. We all have fear, but we have to muster up the courage. And
(02:24):
you being here, I think makes you a very strong and trepid woman. So we appreciate that. It means
a lot for us for you to be here with us. So tell me about your brother, your relationship with him
before MAGA. What was it like? What was what's what's he like? And what was that dynamic like
before Trump came along? Yeah, absolutely. Thank you for this opportunity. I greatly
(02:47):
appreciate it, Rich. My brother and I are two and a half years apart. We grew up in suburban Ohio,
and I looked up to him greatly. I'll never forget there was a moment when we were I was probably
nine and our bedrooms face each other and we were getting ready to go to sleep. And he said to me
(03:09):
from across the hallway, just think right now is the only time that it's going to be 611
on this day. And I thought to myself, he is the smartest person I know, he just gets it
and is such a big thinker about life. And he is. But in recent years, it's unfortunately that,
(03:35):
that thirst for looking for the big picture and what's out there and what there is to see has been
taken over by MAGA and QAnon. It started with the Flat Earth theory and conspiracy theories.
(03:56):
And then it just started leaking into political theories. And the Facebook posts started getting
more and more in line with MAGA. And then they started lining up perfectly with MAGA. And I
remember the first day that they blatantly said Trump 2024. I just thought to myself,
(04:17):
that's, here it is. It's, it's real. This is, this is not, this is not him dipping his toes into
conspiracy theories anymore. This is straight up bought into MAGA. And it has only gotten deeper
and deeper, just constantly on YouTube. And I don't even know what other social media forums,
(04:42):
but man, when those marching orders come out with what the right wants him to think he is hook,
line and sinker on it, and it's the truth. And there's, there's no debate. And there's just no
going back from whatever they are telling him in the media that he is consuming. And it has been
(05:05):
very difficult to watch someone who I know is an incredibly smart person just exists in a different
reality. There's no other way to say it. It's a different reality.
So thank you for sharing that because there's something I want to hone in on for a moment.
And I think this is really so important to these videos we do and the work of leaving MAGA
(05:29):
in our collaboration with Midas Touch is that there is this, I think it's fair to say it's a
pretty pervasive belief amongst a lot of people who are very anti-MAGA, anti-Trump. And I understand
those very strong feelings, but part of the strong feelings that I think people often
misunderstand is that they think that everyone in the MAGA community are these dumb, stupid adults.
(05:56):
Yep. And in reality, that's not true. Of course, like any large group, there are such individuals
and there are bad people in there as well. But even from my own time in MAGA, I would say that
I was in that community for seven years and they were my second family and I talked to them
every single day. There was not a day that went by for years. And a lot of the people I was close
(06:20):
with, they were successful attorneys and professionals and worked in the world of finance. They had
public sector jobs. They were Ivy League graduates. And I say this to others and
there's always this a little bit of mouth agape look like, oh, I'm going to go to college.
Look like, oh, I didn't realize that there were people like that in MAGA. And I always say, well,
(06:45):
I'm glad you're, you're talking to us now because it's important to know that intelligent, smart
people actually can succumb to these conspiracies and these mythologies. And I'm hearing all over
again, it's like the old maxim about deja vu all over again, Erin. You're talking about QAnon
(07:10):
and you're talking about the media consumed and you're talking about videos and all of these other
incestuous conspiracies that there's this Appian way of conspiracies for those in MAGA that just
the destination tends to be that Trump is this person who is this political savior.
(07:35):
And that feeling is real within the MAGA community. And I emphasize this word community
because I just think it's so relevant to this discussion that people understand that. And so
when you're, you're watching your brother gradually and then suddenly all at once
start to get subsumed into this world, this, the MAGA right wing mythological world,
(08:01):
his beliefs are sincere. He genuinely believes what he does or the beliefs that he holds true
and adheres to he, he does in his heart feel that they're, that they're true.
But there's a part of this that we talked about that I want to ask you now about some of the,
the dehumanization that manifests itself as a result of, of just falling prey to so many of
(08:30):
these beliefs. If you can talk about that, because I think it's another really important point
that these mythologies, like they did for me, they, they do something to us and they change us and
they make us feel that those who are not with us are these existential enemies. Your brother
felt that way, feels that way. Now it's how I felt as well. If you can talk about that, please.
(08:51):
Yeah, absolutely. It is so disheartening to hear the word illegals come out of my brother's mouth
and in such a derogatory way, these are fellow humans. These are, these are people who contribute
(09:11):
to our economy, who pay taxes, who are the backbone of our society and to hear them called
illegals is, it's, it's gut wrenching. I have long been a ally of the LGBTQ plus community and to
(09:34):
hear trans people talked about in such a dehumanized way, when they are just trying to live
their most, to words you said earlier, fearless and brave self. For someone to get to the point
of saying, I would like to start training, I, I am feeling like this is a, a change I need to make
(09:59):
in my life to live my authentic self. And then to have YouTube guys and right wing strategists
take the trans identity and trans group and dehumanize them in such a terrible way,
(10:22):
in such a terrible way, just to mobilize voters is, it is so difficult to watch. And I know for me,
one thing that has been really difficult is knowing that the right wing
(10:42):
think tanks and talking heads will speak so poorly about especially the trans community.
But then the think tanks will give interviews to the New York Times and say, we specifically put
the trans issue out there because it stuck to the wall. It mobilized people. But then the think,
(11:07):
the talking heads will say, oh, don't listen, don't listen to New York Times, they're terrible,
they're, they're terrible. So they give them their talking points, right, to go out and yell into the
world. And then they give the real talking points to the media, who they then say discredit. So just
(11:28):
watching the circle of how these dehumanizing points come out and become the political talking
points is, it's fascinating. Yes, but there are actual lives on the line.
And I will say I can talk, I can talk on any point on this dehumanizing part, because it is,
(11:53):
you hit it on the head. It's, it's, I've tried every, every way that I can think of to counteract
the especially the dehumanizing part of, of this whole journey. I've tried compassion. I've tried
reason. I've tried facts. I've tried sending that New York Times article and saying, look, here is
(12:17):
the actual guy who said, we don't actually care about trans rights as a problem. That it's not,
it's not a problem. We just know that it makes people mad. And so it's, it's this constant state
of panic. That is, it's, it's, you know, the next, the next, the next, the next, the next,
(12:38):
it's, you know, the next, oh, oh, yeah, there they are again. Here they are. And they're doing it
again. And that's right. So to live close to Springfield, Ohio, and to watch all of that unfold
with, you know, the cats and the dogs and the geese and to be on the Reddit page where the picture
(13:03):
of the goose originated from and to watch that person have their life uprooted because they
posted that picture that then got picked up by whoever and turned into this whole mythology
about people eating dogs when it was a man who was taking roadkill off the side of the road,
(13:27):
being a good Samaritan, someone snapped a picture because they thought it was weird,
put it on the internet. And then it became a, a cornerstone piece of the debate.
Right. It was a, it was a key component of our presidential election talked about at the VP
debate, the one debate with vice president Harris, president-elect Trump, and the entire
(13:52):
eating cats and dogs was started by a lady who know who knew that it was new. Yes.
In Springfield, they're eating the dogs, the people that came in, they're eating the cats,
they're eating, they're eating the pets of the people that live there. And this is what's
happening in our country. I realize that what I'm about to say could be construed by some as
(14:18):
defending the lady who did it, but it's not. So I just want to say that the reason that she didn't
give second thought to doing that is because there is something about the MAGA and right-wing
mythologies that actually truly do sever people from reality. And yes, intelligent,
(14:39):
good people with integrity can find themselves over time detached from reality because I don't
care, Aaron, how I say this all the time, when I champion empathy for those who are in the MAGA
community, I don't care how intelligent or independent minded or impenetrable one's mind
(15:02):
is. If somebody hears and sees enough lies over time, they are going to start to wonder if they're
true. And once they start to wonder because they're just hearing them ad infinitum over and over and
over again, it becomes a lot easier to start to believe these lies. And I know for people out
(15:25):
there who are saying, well, I don't understand, I never, I never believe those lies. How could
anyone believe them? I would say to them, I give you credit for not, for not shaping your life
around a bunch of lies. But you said panic before. And I will tell you that when I was in MAGA, as
the, as the winning side, not the losing side, as the winning side in 2016, I still, along with my
(15:52):
fellow MAGA Americans felt constantly panic in these perpetual states of desperation and despair
and hopelessness. And, you know, even to use a fancy philosophical term, these feelings of nihilism,
and that was, that was us on the winning side. So imagine on the losing side, how all of that,
(16:17):
all of the above there is just further exacerbated because now you're on the, now you're on the side
where liberals and liberalism are winning. The social media content reposted by the Republican
nominee in the last 36 hours, how do you explain it? How do you explain why he is reposting content
from QAnon and this misogynistic content?
(16:40):
Again, I will say I have not spoken to President Trump about that content this morning,
and I don't think Americans are concerned with social media posts, but you said misogynistic,
I assume you're also going to say that the posts were demeaning to women. I think what's demeaning
to women is what has been allowed to happen over the last four years. I think what's demeaning to
women is the fact that Kamala Harris and Joe Biden are allowing an evasion of illegal criminals into
(17:05):
our country, many of whom have proven to be rapists and murderers. I think what's demeaning to
women like Laken Riley and Jocelyn Nungre and Rachel Moran is the fact that they are no longer
with us because of the policies of this administration. And that is what voters and your
viewers care about, John. Well, look, I think the voters can care about a number of things.
(17:25):
And when there's content being reposted that uses QAnon slogans and when there's content being
reposted that uses QAnon slogans and when there are these sexist misogynistic posts, it's interesting
to me that you can't, you're not, you don't think they're bad. You have no problem with them.
I didn't say that. I said that I don't think voters care. I think that voters care about the,
(17:48):
I said, I said, I care about what's happening to our country right now. I care about the fact that
as a new mother, baby formula is 30% higher and costs more than it did under President Trump.
I care about the fact that we have a vice president or vice president today who wants to be the
president of the United States that hasn't sit down for an interview in more than 40 days to
(18:09):
explain her positions. And she will be sitting down for an interview today with Dana Bash along
with governor Tim Walz. And I just wanted our viewers to know also, cause you have a history
of this, of work in the refs here. Obviously, Dana will do a great job. As you know, she always
does. And we appreciate you being with us this morning, Carolyn Leavitt from the Trump campaign.
(18:29):
Thank you. Okay. So we know, Aaron, what your brother had said since 2015, 2016,
what about this past election? What was he, what was he saying? What was he posting? What were you
observing? I'm taking it by your laugh that it was some, some pretty absurd and outlandish posts,
(18:51):
but what was he, what were you observing? What were you seeing that he was doing? Anything and
everything, every marching order that was given. I mean, there were times where he would post nine,
10 times an hour. You know, we knew when Greg was awake because he was parroting everything that was
said by MAGA. I will say the one thing that really caught me off guard is the use of AI
(19:14):
to depict all parties involved. So Kamala Harris in many of the YouTube cover clip arts and,
and things was always depicted as screaming, crying these dramatic black metal looking tears.
(19:35):
And she was always raged. And what always also caught me off guard was they always depicted her
with cleavage, which she does not do herself when dressing. So the hyper feminization, but also the
angry woman trope that was unfortunately persuasive to the right. But then on the other
(20:02):
hand, you had Donald Trump, who was often depicted as a superhero, hyper masculine, wearing a
MAGA, kind of like Captain America suit and has a shield, often has a trophy if it is him in his suit.
Images of the White House with the TRUMP letters being lowered because he's taking back the White
(20:29):
House, Barack Obama also with those weird metal tears, seeing that those images over and over again,
that that solidified that, at least for him and so many others, that's how they pictured Kamala Harris.
That's how they pictured Barack Obama, Nancy Pelosi, anyone that you can think of on the left,
(20:51):
was given this caricature of rage and defeat all at the same time, they knew exactly what they were
doing with those images and pair that with what is being said. It is so incredibly powerful.
And I will say very quickly, the one thing that really bothered me about how Kamala Harris was
(21:19):
portrayed, I made the point to my brother that every time he put her down, he was putting me down.
Every time he called her unqualified, he was calling me unqualified, because if a woman can't
run for president because she's unqualified, even though she's her resume is out of this world,
things that I will never achieve and that's okay, she's done it. But to say that she's not qualified,
(21:46):
that she's stupid, that she's low IQ, that that I could not, I could not, I could not, I could not
dismiss the feeling of then that's how he feels about me. And that was also one of the harder
components of watching this election season. What did he say to that? When you made that comment,
(22:09):
deflected it that he was talking about her, not me. No, no, it took every ounce of my being not
to saying I'm every woman, it's all in me. But, but it's true, you put down one woman, you put down
it's true, you put down one woman, you're putting them all down. That's that's how misogyny works.
You see, I think that I think the deflection. Yeah, it, it does reflect that deep, deep down,
(22:38):
there, there is a as much as I might say, detached from reality, there is still some recognition
deep down that even when I was in MAGA, there were there were times that I criticized Trump privately
with other MAGA Americans. And I always say MAGA Americans and not MAGA Republicans, because
(23:00):
I feel like I want to be inclusive and, and talking about those I used to break bread with
and would go to holiday parties, or kids birthday parties, etc. And, and the devotion to Trump,
because again, for a lot of viewers out there and people I meet on a day to day basis, and they ask
and they say, I don't understand the devotion, the devotion is really because Trump is the leader of
(23:21):
this community. There, there has not been a community aspect on the right, when it comes to
politics. And even though MAGA itself is not novel and new, like, like you said, not. It's true, not
everybody in MAGA are racist and misogynistic, most aren't, a lot have valid concerns. It's just
(23:45):
that the ire that they feel, which is, which is understandable in some contexts, their ire is
directed at the, at the wrong people in the wrong groups. And that's one of the successes of all
those lies that my at my vignette at the DNC that aired on night one, I said that Trump's toxic
superpower is his lying. It's very, very difficult to compete against shamelessness
(24:13):
and ad nauseam lying, even for you as someone close to your brother. You're in competition
with all of this, which gets me thinking something I always like to ask everyone who does these
videos, both of those who leave MAGA and friends and family. In this context of this relationship,
(24:34):
with your brother, you had said that you'd be willing to share this testimonial with him. And
I thank you for doing that because he may have deflected that one time. It's going to be a
little harder to deflect when he sees this, but we're not here to, we're not here to cast
aspersions on him or pass judgment, right? We want to try to restore the relationship. But if you met
(24:54):
Donald Trump in the context here of this, the strained relationship with your brother,
what would you say to the president elect? You could say anything you want. You could say anything
you want about what's happened. I'm curious about what you might want to say to him. You know,
let loose here. We're a family program, so, you know, keep it PG. But what is it that you'd say
(25:22):
to him? I'm really curious about your thought process on this.
How much time do I have with him? I think I would absolutely have to start by saying,
is this all worth it? Is this really all worth it to you? It's fascinating, right? You know,
(25:44):
there's a common adage on the left where we say he's doing this to stay out of prison. And maybe so.
But is it really, really worth it? And honestly, I would just have a lot of questions for him that
I'm sure he would deflect. But I would like to know, you know, how did this start? I know that
(26:07):
he wanted to run for president, but now there are so many obvious ties that are just dark, so dark
I want to know what kind of world he thinks he's living for or leaving for his son, for his
(26:28):
granddaughter who spoke at the RNC and, you know, lots of people went to social media to follow her
and keep up on her because she struck a chord with them. You know, are the insults really worth it?
Is this the type of person that you want your son to have as their doctor? Is this the person that
(26:52):
you want me to have as my doctor, right? Like, how does he not see that his influence is impacting
every single sector of America and not in a good way, right? So he's, the influence has absolutely
(27:16):
no bounds and there's no depth to this entire orchestration that he has made. I, I think
he has made. I honestly, that is a hard question what I would ask him. It really is because I feel
(27:45):
like I'd be met with the weave pretty quickly. But I just, I really think it all comes down to,
was it really all worth it? Is it really worth it? I mean, he could be skating into a beautiful
retirement right now, but no, he's not. And it's so frustrating. And I've thought about that question
(28:07):
myself and depending on my mood in any given day, I may have a different answer, but I do feel like
since I asked it and I usually will ask everyone who does these videos, you know, I'll offer it
here for viewers that I think of all the possibilities of answers, the one that I would,
(28:32):
what I would say to him is I would say that I was very much
devoted to the cause as someone in the community, but I would ask him what he thinks about the fact
that I left with remorse and have actually, we've created an organization, we're collaborating,
(28:56):
getting to meet someone such as yourself and so many others as a result of leaving MAGA,
you know, how does that, how might that make you feel? No, he might say, I don't care. Well, I care,
but I feel like that's why, and I, if I had met you when I was in MAGA, I would have thought,
(29:18):
I would have thought what your brother did. And so I'm going to, so I'm going to ask her
and to put you on the spot and I'm going to say that after you get a chance to show this video to
your brother, I'm going to check back in with you and want to find out from you just how he took it,
how he received this. And I've got a feeling it's going to be, it's going to be hard for him to
(29:41):
ignore this. It's easy to ignore statements and what's said online. So I just want to thank you
for being here. I know that this is hard to do this. You are a strong and intrepid woman. And
again, I know your brother deep down, I want to say to him, as he sees this, that I don't agree
(30:01):
with a lot of the rhetoric that is said about he and other Trump voters. I think that there does
need to actually be more of a dialogue between people who disagree with each other, but we also
have to agree on basic sets of facts and we need to move away from dehumanizing. And I don't think
(30:22):
it's just the right who dehumanizes. There's, it's, there's, it's not of equal frequency,
but there's enough that goes around that comes from, from those to the, to the left of Trump and
MAGA as well. So just, it means a lot for us to be here with you and for you to be telling this
story and this testimonial. Tell us where Erin Stinchula from Ohio, where can everyone find you
(30:45):
on your social media? Yeah. As a proud childless cat lady, I am Erin says meow on pretty much
every forum, especially threads, really loving threads right now. So Erin says meow. Okay. Thank
you. I appreciate it. Erin, you being here with us. Thanks so much. Thank you. Take care. Have you
left MAGA or do you know anyone who's got remorse about supporting Trump or do you have a friend or
(31:08):
a relative who's in the MAGA community? We want to hear from you. Be sure to reach out to us at
leaving MAGA.org as always. We appreciate your guys support and watching today. Thanks again.
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