October 10, 2024 • 14 mins
Burnout is the modern curse of the workplace. Most often seen in the most diligent of workers, burnout is a major impediment to a happy and balanced work life. Even more so, burnout is a huge concern for people returning to work after a workplace injury who are now facing the prospect of reinjury.
In this episode, Dr Caroline Howe is in conversation with Alicia Gibbs, who takes us through the effects burnout can have on your ability to return to work, plus how to avoid burnout in the first place.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
S1 (00:01):
Hello and welcome to the My Social Support Network podcast,
a series to guide you along the path to recovery
while on workers compensation. In this series, we will answer
questions from you and provide information from experts and people
with lived experience currently going through worker's compensation and those
who have made their way to the other side. Through
these interactions, we'll be giving you tools, advice, but most importantly,
(00:24):
encouragement on what can be a stressful time when you're
also recovering from an injury sustained in your workplace.
S2 (00:30):
You are your own best advocate and you are in
control even if you don't feel like you are.
S3 (00:37):
Today, we're actually going to cover a topic that has
come up in my social support network a lot, and
that is the fear of injured workers going back to work,
particularly if they've felt bullied and harassed. One of the
things that comes up is how do I avoid getting
burnt out again? And burnout is a really complicated area
(00:57):
of psychological injury. We are delighted to have Alicia Gibbs
back with us, to talk to some of our injured
workers and start to unpack this very complex area.
S2 (01:07):
Rehab counselling is really a form of career coaching or
executive coaching. So, you know, I was looking at stopping
that burnout or fatigue that we're seeing come through, but
also working with people one on one as well. So,
you know, my ideal person to work with is someone
who says, I think I'm burning out or I think
(01:29):
I need a new job because I'm not happy at work.
So the question is, is it the job and the
tasks you're doing that are the problem? Or is it
the environment you're in and how much is in your control?
S4 (01:42):
I'm curious about what you do when someone is burnt
out already. Where do you go from there? What do
you recommend in order to sort of help someone ignite
reignite that path for themselves?
S2 (01:53):
Yeah, that's a great question. So in Australia, burnout isn't
a medical condition. Uh, though in other countries. It is
what we call it here is an occupational syndrome. That's
kind of the language that we're using at the moment.
Once somebody is burnt out, often not just psychologically but
also physiologically. So when you're speaking to somebody who's burnt out,
(02:18):
often fatigue is actually the main thing. They're just exhausted.
They're tired all the time. And that's because they've been
in a high stress environment, whatever that looks like for
that workplace for too long. Um, so it's kind of
like that candle that burns too, too hot, too bright. Right?
So the first step for recovering from burnout is around
(02:42):
re-establishing your physical health and wellbeing. So, you know, encouragement
to get up movement, exercise. Um, and then often the
next thing that I would suggest working on with burnout
is setting boundaries. So if you are a person who
you are feeling burnt out because the kind of work
(03:02):
that you did was, you know, you had to work
long hours or you felt so compassionate about the people
you were working with, or you cared so much about
what you were doing, you felt like you had to
give and give and give whatever the work is. The
reality is that that behavior is going to come up
when you go back to work. So I've worked with
people who've had time off, had a rest, got better
(03:24):
routine and structure, but then gone and done a different
job and stepped in. That burnout has actually crept up again.
So what we then need is to work on some
strategies to make sure that we are working our 9
to 5 or our 20 hours a week, or whatever
that looks like, and being strategic in making sure that
we're getting the work done that we need to get done,
(03:46):
and that you have stuff outside of work that's important
to you as well. Sometimes it can also be about
understanding what the duties of the job are and and
how to navigate them or structure them better throughout a week.
So there's a couple of different things with little seeds
that I've planted there, and I hope that was helpful
for you. But it is a process and everybody's different. And, um,
(04:10):
I'm sure Carolyn would tell you that there's so many
nuances with different occupations as well. Um, certainly how I
would support somebody in the healthcare industry versus somebody who
was an accountant, even if their symptoms were the same, um,
would be quite different.
S3 (04:26):
Yeah. It's kind of wraps back to the old chestnut,
which is the biopsychosocial model that everybody talks about and
no one does properly. That is why we have my
social support network to bridge that gap. I actually don't
think I've met anybody in the last 18 months or
(04:47):
two years that has walked through our doors that didn't
love and dedicate their whole being to that workplace. I
find people who end up with a psychological injury as
a result of workplace incredibly loyal. And that overwhelm that
happens once the event happens. It's almost this disbelief I've
(05:10):
given you so much and now this has happened. I
love those suggestions of exercise and routine, and it feels
so selfish to take that time because it doesn't feel
like it is probably something you may have likely done before,
but being selfish to rebuild with all of those small
steps is is just critical.
S2 (05:31):
And just on that, Caroline, like when I started in
occupational rehab, there was a kind of shape up or
ship out sort of mentality. I had massive caseloads. I
traveled a lot as well for work. Um, I used
to think things like, God, I wish I would break
my leg so I could just have a week in
hospital to just sleep. So that's like a massive red
(05:54):
flag that I was feeling burnt out. So, you know,
it's not a certain type of person. It's what you
do with that now? How I manage that. So if
we're talking about up the stream before these issues get worse,
if the workplace that we're in isn't going to support us,
it's step one setting boundaries. I'm not responding to that request.
(06:16):
I'm not going to do that extra work. No, no, no,
that that can be so hard, as you've said, Carolyn,
because people are so passionate. And then the step two
might be looking for another job. Um, and that's okay.
But question is it the workplace or is it the work?
Because understanding the difference between those two can be very helpful.
And you can kind of stop that burnout happening and
(06:40):
move into a much more supportive, better workplace doing the
exact same job. Um, but that boundary setting is key.
I agree.
S3 (06:48):
With you. And that gets mixed up. It's like people
feel like they can't go back to that job. I
do these career tests all the time. It's like, this
is what you love to do. It is what it is,
who you are. This is your career personality. It's what
you loved before. You're still going to love it now.
You just don't like that employer.
S4 (07:05):
Putting boundaries in in an ideal world. Fantastic. But if
you didn't have those boundaries to begin with, and that
workplace took advantage of you during that time of no boundaries,
and then you try and implement boundaries, it doesn't always
work out well either. So yeah, I agree.
S2 (07:23):
And it can feel really disconnecting to have to say no.
And often if you're known as the person that gives 150%,
if all of a sudden you're giving 100%, it feels
to your employer like you're doing less, which is true,
you actually are literally doing less, but you're doing less
to support yourself. And that sometimes isn't received well. And
(07:46):
I don't live in a perfect world. I don't think
any of us do. And so there's, you know, saying
in theory and then there's doing in practice, what you're
actually trying to do is change how you work and
how you've functioned in a world when, you know, as
you said, you've been taken advantage of. So this is
not something that, you know, on a Friday you feel
(08:06):
burnt out. And then on Monday you go and you go,
I'm setting all my boundaries today and everything will be better, right?
S4 (08:13):
This is I spent my whole weekend stressing about returning
to work on a Monday. I was at quite a
high senior level of it. And so obviously a naturally
stressful environment. And then through Covid and all sorts of
different things, just didn't have a break because I was
working some days, 20 hours a day to keep the
business running. You can do it. You can sustain it
(08:34):
for so long. But really where I fell short was
the lack of organisational support. They could see I was
burnt out, but they didn't help me at all. And
so that just led to when I did put boundaries
in place, bullying, harassment and then obviously making it a
very toxic environment and trying to push me out after
probably me starting to stand up for myself. And so
(08:56):
then I was tarred with, oh, I'm argumentative, I'm a troublemaker,
and all these different things, just because all I wanted
was some time off during a period where they put
a blanket. No leave allowed. When you can identify you're
in burnout, it's usually too late. You kind of need
to be a bit more self-aware and realize what the
red flags are before you become burnt out. Yeah, and.
S2 (09:18):
Thank you for sharing all of that. I'm so sorry
that you've been through that, and that's why I'm passionate
about supporting organizations to do this better, as well as
supporting the individual. The system doesn't work if we only
support the person because of exactly all the things that
you've just spoken about. So supporting the the organization to
(09:40):
understand what is okay and what is not okay is
very important to. Unfortunately, we're not there and employers are
not there yet. Um, I'm very hopeful that these changes
in the work, health and safety legislation around psychosocial risk
means that there are less people like you. And I
agree that once you have reached that burnt out, complete
(10:02):
fatigue state. You do have to stop and rest. Yeah.
S3 (10:06):
And unfortunately, this is always a curiosity for me with
psychological injury because in physical I snapped my leg. In psychological,
if you get to the place where you have to
put in a claim, that thing started 18 months ago,
and you've just now gotten to the point where you
cannot cope anymore, you are done. And so this idea
(10:26):
of that day I had the injury is incorrect for
psychological injury.
S2 (10:31):
And often people have tried doing different things, setting different boundaries,
working with different managers, saying something to HR, you know,
and so they're actually they're fatigued from trying to find
an advocate for themselves throughout that process.
S3 (10:46):
Alicia, you were as passionate about working in this space
as I am, and you are passionate about recovery, and
you're passionate about wellness and you're passionate about prevention. And
we don't talk about this enough. And there is a
lot of Misconception, and people who become injured feel so disempowered.
And it's not fair. If you were to leave this
(11:08):
with one piece of advice for someone who is listening
and is struggling inside their workplace, what advice would you
give them?
S2 (11:17):
You are your own best advocate and you are in
control even if you don't feel like you are. There
are always choices and it can be hard to make
the right choice or understand what the right choice is
for you to make. Lean on your support network. In
my lifeline volunteering, I am often speaking to people who
(11:39):
feel isolated and alone. Having that support network around you,
if you need to lean on them, do it because
you will reap the rewards. People actually want to help
other people and a pathway to wellbeing is actually helping
others as well. Advocate for yourself and what you need.
And if that's falling on deaf ears, then think about
what the next steps look like for you. It's okay
(12:01):
to take time and process as well. Sometimes we're pressured
to make decisions in certain time frames quite quickly. And
I'm not talking about insurance schemes and systems, and you
have to get this in by this date. But if
we're talking to somebody who's in the workplace, who's struggling,
then maybe it is about taking, you know, a considered
(12:22):
two days of personal leave to actually reflect and spend
time on what the next steps look like for you.
And maybe it's about and this is where, you know,
I have a lot of experience as a rehab counselor,
but maybe it's about thinking about next week, next month,
the next three months and what that looks like. It
sounds easy, but it's not. Which is be in the
(12:44):
present moment. Look back. Look forward.
S3 (12:45):
And also, if the step that you've made feels too big,
make it smaller, because I will go back to just
take the next breath and then the next one, and
then make a plan for the next five minutes. So yes,
make those little goals, but make them smaller. If they
overwhelm you, it's too big. Yeah.
S2 (13:03):
Agree.
S3 (13:04):
Alicia, thank you for today. I'm so glad to have
spoken to you. Talking about burnout and not being re-injured
again is something so close to the hearts of many
people that we work with. And I'm really delighted that
we've been able to start to discuss this difficult conversation.
It takes great bravery and courage for someone who is
(13:25):
already an injured worker to start to want to look
at ways to be able to rebuild and move themselves
from a place of being wounded to becoming a warrior again.
And we are so delighted to be part of that journey.
S1 (13:41):
Well, you've been listening. You may have found some of
these concepts challenging, so please reach out to lifeline on
13 1114 Beyondblue on one 302 24636 the 24 hour
mental health access line, which is one 800 015, double one.
Thank you for joining us and we'll be back next time.
Hello and welcome to the My Social Support Network podcast,
a series to guide you along the path to recovery
while on workers compensation. In this series, we will answer
questions from you and provide information from experts and people
with lived experience currently going through worker's compensation and those
who have made their way to the other side. Through
these interactions, we'll be giving you tools, advice, but most importantly,
(00:24):
encouragement on what can be a stressful time when you're
also recovering from an injury sustained in your workplace.
S2 (00:30):
You are your own best advocate and you are in
control even if you don't feel like you are.
S3 (00:37):
Today, we're actually going to cover a topic that has
come up in my social support network a lot, and
that is the fear of injured workers going back to work,
particularly if they've felt bullied and harassed. One of the
things that comes up is how do I avoid getting
burnt out again? And burnout is a really complicated area
(00:57):
of psychological injury. We are delighted to have Alicia Gibbs
back with us, to talk to some of our injured
workers and start to unpack this very complex area.
S2 (01:07):
Rehab counselling is really a form of career coaching or
executive coaching. So, you know, I was looking at stopping
that burnout or fatigue that we're seeing come through, but
also working with people one on one as well. So,
you know, my ideal person to work with is someone
who says, I think I'm burning out or I think
(01:29):
I need a new job because I'm not happy at work.
So the question is, is it the job and the
tasks you're doing that are the problem? Or is it
the environment you're in and how much is in your control?
S4 (01:42):
I'm curious about what you do when someone is burnt
out already. Where do you go from there? What do
you recommend in order to sort of help someone ignite
reignite that path for themselves?
S2 (01:53):
Yeah, that's a great question. So in Australia, burnout isn't
a medical condition. Uh, though in other countries. It is
what we call it here is an occupational syndrome. That's
kind of the language that we're using at the moment.
Once somebody is burnt out, often not just psychologically but
also physiologically. So when you're speaking to somebody who's burnt out,
(02:18):
often fatigue is actually the main thing. They're just exhausted.
They're tired all the time. And that's because they've been
in a high stress environment, whatever that looks like for
that workplace for too long. Um, so it's kind of
like that candle that burns too, too hot, too bright. Right?
So the first step for recovering from burnout is around
(02:42):
re-establishing your physical health and wellbeing. So, you know, encouragement
to get up movement, exercise. Um, and then often the
next thing that I would suggest working on with burnout
is setting boundaries. So if you are a person who
you are feeling burnt out because the kind of work
(03:02):
that you did was, you know, you had to work
long hours or you felt so compassionate about the people
you were working with, or you cared so much about
what you were doing, you felt like you had to
give and give and give whatever the work is. The
reality is that that behavior is going to come up
when you go back to work. So I've worked with
people who've had time off, had a rest, got better
(03:24):
routine and structure, but then gone and done a different
job and stepped in. That burnout has actually crept up again.
So what we then need is to work on some
strategies to make sure that we are working our 9
to 5 or our 20 hours a week, or whatever
that looks like, and being strategic in making sure that
we're getting the work done that we need to get done,
(03:46):
and that you have stuff outside of work that's important
to you as well. Sometimes it can also be about
understanding what the duties of the job are and and
how to navigate them or structure them better throughout a week.
So there's a couple of different things with little seeds
that I've planted there, and I hope that was helpful
for you. But it is a process and everybody's different. And, um,
(04:10):
I'm sure Carolyn would tell you that there's so many
nuances with different occupations as well. Um, certainly how I
would support somebody in the healthcare industry versus somebody who
was an accountant, even if their symptoms were the same, um,
would be quite different.
S3 (04:26):
Yeah. It's kind of wraps back to the old chestnut,
which is the biopsychosocial model that everybody talks about and
no one does properly. That is why we have my
social support network to bridge that gap. I actually don't
think I've met anybody in the last 18 months or
(04:47):
two years that has walked through our doors that didn't
love and dedicate their whole being to that workplace. I
find people who end up with a psychological injury as
a result of workplace incredibly loyal. And that overwhelm that
happens once the event happens. It's almost this disbelief I've
(05:10):
given you so much and now this has happened. I
love those suggestions of exercise and routine, and it feels
so selfish to take that time because it doesn't feel
like it is probably something you may have likely done before,
but being selfish to rebuild with all of those small
steps is is just critical.
S2 (05:31):
And just on that, Caroline, like when I started in
occupational rehab, there was a kind of shape up or
ship out sort of mentality. I had massive caseloads. I
traveled a lot as well for work. Um, I used
to think things like, God, I wish I would break
my leg so I could just have a week in
hospital to just sleep. So that's like a massive red
(05:54):
flag that I was feeling burnt out. So, you know,
it's not a certain type of person. It's what you
do with that now? How I manage that. So if
we're talking about up the stream before these issues get worse,
if the workplace that we're in isn't going to support us,
it's step one setting boundaries. I'm not responding to that request.
(06:16):
I'm not going to do that extra work. No, no, no,
that that can be so hard, as you've said, Carolyn,
because people are so passionate. And then the step two
might be looking for another job. Um, and that's okay.
But question is it the workplace or is it the work?
Because understanding the difference between those two can be very helpful.
And you can kind of stop that burnout happening and
(06:40):
move into a much more supportive, better workplace doing the
exact same job. Um, but that boundary setting is key.
I agree.
S3 (06:48):
With you. And that gets mixed up. It's like people
feel like they can't go back to that job. I
do these career tests all the time. It's like, this
is what you love to do. It is what it is,
who you are. This is your career personality. It's what
you loved before. You're still going to love it now.
You just don't like that employer.
S4 (07:05):
Putting boundaries in in an ideal world. Fantastic. But if
you didn't have those boundaries to begin with, and that
workplace took advantage of you during that time of no boundaries,
and then you try and implement boundaries, it doesn't always
work out well either. So yeah, I agree.
S2 (07:23):
And it can feel really disconnecting to have to say no.
And often if you're known as the person that gives 150%,
if all of a sudden you're giving 100%, it feels
to your employer like you're doing less, which is true,
you actually are literally doing less, but you're doing less
to support yourself. And that sometimes isn't received well. And
(07:46):
I don't live in a perfect world. I don't think
any of us do. And so there's, you know, saying
in theory and then there's doing in practice, what you're
actually trying to do is change how you work and
how you've functioned in a world when, you know, as
you said, you've been taken advantage of. So this is
not something that, you know, on a Friday you feel
(08:06):
burnt out. And then on Monday you go and you go,
I'm setting all my boundaries today and everything will be better, right?
S4 (08:13):
This is I spent my whole weekend stressing about returning
to work on a Monday. I was at quite a
high senior level of it. And so obviously a naturally
stressful environment. And then through Covid and all sorts of
different things, just didn't have a break because I was
working some days, 20 hours a day to keep the
business running. You can do it. You can sustain it
(08:34):
for so long. But really where I fell short was
the lack of organisational support. They could see I was
burnt out, but they didn't help me at all. And
so that just led to when I did put boundaries
in place, bullying, harassment and then obviously making it a
very toxic environment and trying to push me out after
probably me starting to stand up for myself. And so
(08:56):
then I was tarred with, oh, I'm argumentative, I'm a troublemaker,
and all these different things, just because all I wanted
was some time off during a period where they put
a blanket. No leave allowed. When you can identify you're
in burnout, it's usually too late. You kind of need
to be a bit more self-aware and realize what the
red flags are before you become burnt out. Yeah, and.
S2 (09:18):
Thank you for sharing all of that. I'm so sorry
that you've been through that, and that's why I'm passionate
about supporting organizations to do this better, as well as
supporting the individual. The system doesn't work if we only
support the person because of exactly all the things that
you've just spoken about. So supporting the the organization to
(09:40):
understand what is okay and what is not okay is
very important to. Unfortunately, we're not there and employers are
not there yet. Um, I'm very hopeful that these changes
in the work, health and safety legislation around psychosocial risk
means that there are less people like you. And I
agree that once you have reached that burnt out, complete
(10:02):
fatigue state. You do have to stop and rest. Yeah.
S3 (10:06):
And unfortunately, this is always a curiosity for me with
psychological injury because in physical I snapped my leg. In psychological,
if you get to the place where you have to
put in a claim, that thing started 18 months ago,
and you've just now gotten to the point where you
cannot cope anymore, you are done. And so this idea
(10:26):
of that day I had the injury is incorrect for
psychological injury.
S2 (10:31):
And often people have tried doing different things, setting different boundaries,
working with different managers, saying something to HR, you know,
and so they're actually they're fatigued from trying to find
an advocate for themselves throughout that process.
S3 (10:46):
Alicia, you were as passionate about working in this space
as I am, and you are passionate about recovery, and
you're passionate about wellness and you're passionate about prevention. And
we don't talk about this enough. And there is a
lot of Misconception, and people who become injured feel so disempowered.
And it's not fair. If you were to leave this
(11:08):
with one piece of advice for someone who is listening
and is struggling inside their workplace, what advice would you
give them?
S2 (11:17):
You are your own best advocate and you are in
control even if you don't feel like you are. There
are always choices and it can be hard to make
the right choice or understand what the right choice is
for you to make. Lean on your support network. In
my lifeline volunteering, I am often speaking to people who
(11:39):
feel isolated and alone. Having that support network around you,
if you need to lean on them, do it because
you will reap the rewards. People actually want to help
other people and a pathway to wellbeing is actually helping
others as well. Advocate for yourself and what you need.
And if that's falling on deaf ears, then think about
what the next steps look like for you. It's okay
(12:01):
to take time and process as well. Sometimes we're pressured
to make decisions in certain time frames quite quickly. And
I'm not talking about insurance schemes and systems, and you
have to get this in by this date. But if
we're talking to somebody who's in the workplace, who's struggling,
then maybe it is about taking, you know, a considered
(12:22):
two days of personal leave to actually reflect and spend
time on what the next steps look like for you.
And maybe it's about and this is where, you know,
I have a lot of experience as a rehab counselor,
but maybe it's about thinking about next week, next month,
the next three months and what that looks like. It
sounds easy, but it's not. Which is be in the
(12:44):
present moment. Look back. Look forward.
S3 (12:45):
And also, if the step that you've made feels too big,
make it smaller, because I will go back to just
take the next breath and then the next one, and
then make a plan for the next five minutes. So yes,
make those little goals, but make them smaller. If they
overwhelm you, it's too big. Yeah.
S2 (13:03):
Agree.
S3 (13:04):
Alicia, thank you for today. I'm so glad to have
spoken to you. Talking about burnout and not being re-injured
again is something so close to the hearts of many
people that we work with. And I'm really delighted that
we've been able to start to discuss this difficult conversation.
It takes great bravery and courage for someone who is
(13:25):
already an injured worker to start to want to look
at ways to be able to rebuild and move themselves
from a place of being wounded to becoming a warrior again.
And we are so delighted to be part of that journey.
S1 (13:41):
Well, you've been listening. You may have found some of
these concepts challenging, so please reach out to lifeline on
13 1114 Beyondblue on one 302 24636 the 24 hour
mental health access line, which is one 800 015, double one.
Thank you for joining us and we'll be back next time.
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