December 5, 2024 • 34 mins
Caring for somone isolated through injury or illness is a full time job - and this job, more often than not, falls to family members. A wife, a husband or partner, a child or sibling, these are the silent compassionate people who care, but it's not an easy road.
In this episode My Social Support Network founder Dr Caroline Howe speaks with the Mitchells and the Smiths, who despite having very different situations, find common experiences taking care of their partners, injured at work.
If you would like to take part in the MSSN Carer Programme, please email us at info@mssn.com.au, as we will be running a pilot programme in 2025 for carers and partners who would like to talk, laugh and find commonality with others in their situation.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
S1 (00:01):
Hello and welcome to the My Social Support Network podcast,
a series to guide you along the path to recovery
while on workers compensation. In this series, we will answer
questions from you and provide information from experts and people
with lived experience currently going through worker's compensation and those
who have made their way to the other side. Through
these interactions, we'll be giving you tools, advice, but most importantly,
(00:24):
encouragement on what can be a stressful time when you're
also recovering from an injury sustained in your workplace.
S2 (00:31):
All the time. She was angry and I said, enough.
You can't take this anymore. It was unbelievable. No workplace
should treat anybody, let alone a member of their own family,
in such a way.
S3 (00:41):
One of the big questions that people will often have
in worker's comp is what happens to the family. There's
a lot of time that's spent talking about the injured
worker and the injured workers journey, but very few of
us ever get to lift the lid and actually talk
to people that are going through it as a family member.
Today we're going to talk to the Mitchells and the
Smiths about their worker's comp journey. They come from two
(01:05):
very different backgrounds. One family is still in it and
one family has had the opportunity to exit. I'm really
excited to bring this podcast to you today because there
is so much that we can learn from it, and
I really hope that it enables people who are currently
going through worker's compensation or their families to get some
(01:26):
hope and some information and find that courage to get
you through, because you will get through this. Let's start
with talking to the Mitchells about their experience. I actually
think that both couples that we've got today have been
together for quite some time. How many years have you
guys been together?
S4 (01:46):
33.
S3 (01:47):
And you have kids?
S4 (01:49):
Three biological children, and we have lots of kids that
have ascended to us because they come from bad families
that claim us as theirs and we claim them, and
then all the grandchildren as well.
S3 (02:02):
And neither of you look old enough to be in
that situation, I've got to say. And for the Smiths,
how many years have you guys been together as a couple?
S5 (02:10):
I'm going to get in trouble here, but I'm pretty
sure it's almost 20 years, isn't it?
S2 (02:15):
21 in April next year?
S5 (02:17):
I knew this would be the case. We have this
debate every year.
S3 (02:22):
It's slightly different situations, actually, for both of you. I
want to preface that because the Mitchells have recently exited
the scheme and the Smiths are still in the thick
of it. So I want to actually ask Laura and
Nathan first up, because I don't know if you would
call it a privilege or not, but I have had
the opportunity to be with you guys for pretty much
(02:44):
the entire journey through worker's comp. And so from my perspective,
I've seen highs and lows in the scheme that, um,
that you have to navigate. But explain to the listener,
the experience for you guys like what was life before
and now.
S4 (03:04):
Everything changed except where we lived in the car we
drove changed. You know, your financial, your social, your physical,
your money, your work, everything, every aspect of your life.
Totally different. Like, and not just obviously for Nathan because
he was injured, but for me as well. You know,
(03:25):
the first response was, okay, am I going to have
to stop work to look after him full time because
the injury was so bad? And that was the first
sort of part of it. And then there was, okay,
now we've we've got to get through the the three
months in hospital, the whole case workers and that sort
of thing kept changing. And the basic, um, description they
(03:50):
put of a injury on a CAC did not really
explain what had happened to him. So you've got new caseworker. Go. Oh,
you broke your legs. So you know you're okay now.
You know, just things like that. It was hard to
reiterate to someone new that, no, he's not going to
(04:11):
be okay next week. Like even the initial one, the
day after his injury, I got a call from WorkCover.
You know, because obviously it was put through. Um, will
he be right to drive to work next week, or
will he need a driver? Um, he's not going to
walk for the next 2 or 3 months. Like, no,
that's that's not okay. And and when you're in the
(04:32):
thick of it going, you know what's happening with your
life and everything like that. Uh, to be asked a
stupid question like that when they should know the details, it's. Yeah,
it's really hard to. Yeah.
S3 (04:45):
What's so interesting is that you just used the acronym COC,
and I bet $1,000 that the day before Nathan had
the injury, you would not have known what CoC means,
which is a certificate of incapacity.
S4 (04:57):
No, no.
S3 (04:57):
And now I guess you have to.
S4 (04:59):
Speak that language because of. Yeah.
S3 (05:01):
If it's okay with you. Nathan, are you all right?
If we kind of describe what happened in your injury.
Near on.
S6 (05:07):
Three tons of steel, uh, dropped. Crushed me legs, trapped
me inside a machine. And I don't remember pretty much
any of it. I passed out that many times, and
I remember bits and pieces. Remember making jokes that I
won't be at work tomorrow thinking, you know, I'll be
(05:27):
at work next week, though I've only just got, you know,
sore legs. I'll be right to wake up in hospital.
And I thought it was the next day, but it
was two weeks later. You know, people have been saying,
I've been having conversations with them, and I can't remember that.
I never knew the full scope of my injuries until
I probably come out of hospital, which was three months later,
(05:48):
because mentally I wasn't ready for it. Uh, physically, I
could look down and go, wow, I can't walk while
my legs like this. Why are all the scars? Because
I have more than 30 scars over my legs and
from the knees down. I'm full of metal and it's
the only thing that's holding me legs together. And unfortunately,
(06:10):
the bits I do remember in the hospital are not
great because my skin on my legs wasn't broken from
all the steel hitting me and trapping me in the machine,
so no one realized that my bones were all crushed
and there was nothing left, and they were picking me up,
telling me to move my legs this way. Move and
they'll just jelly. There's nothing. Modern surgeons did a great job,
(06:33):
did a great job. They've bolted me back together. I've
got rods and everything, holding every bone pretty much in
my legs together. Reattached all the tendons and nerves and
all the bits and pieces. And I can walk now. And,
you know, I did my first push up today, and
the accident was more, more than four and a half,
five years ago. So I'm still progressing, but I'm excited.
(06:55):
I got a push up here. But I will say
that as much as the physical side of things, the
mental side hit as well, and that hit pretty hard. Uh,
probably after I was let go from work. To me,
I live to work and live for the family and
stuff like that. But when my work was taken away,
(07:16):
it's like, oh, hang on, I'm actually injured. And it
took a bit for it soak into me to go.
I'm not going back to work in a hurry. So
mentally that really is like, oh hang on, what do
I do?
S4 (07:29):
But that is what got you up on your feet
and moving and everything quicker. Like he was pushing or
wanting to get home. But you know, his accident was
the start of July and he was dead set. He
was going to be back at work by Christmas. And that's,
you know, that's what pushed him through that rehab every day.
That's what pushed him back to be on his feet
(07:50):
and to to keep going because I'm going to be
back at work. I'm going to be back at work.
And then it was the year after that. They said
in the December, we don't have a place for you anymore.
I mean, they made it sound like that they were
doing him a favor so that when work cover stopped,
he could in that time, he could go find something else.
(08:12):
Like because work covers eventually going to stop. You know,
it's like, well, if we're holding you to this, this,
this is good for you, you go find something that
you can do because you can't do this. So they
they sort of turned it around to say to him,
you know, we're doing you a favor where he did
obviously didn't see it like that. He did so well.
What have I been working towards if I can't go
(08:33):
back there? Which sort of that's when the, the mental
side of it kicked in big time. Like you just,
you know, when you take that purpose away, what do
you got to fight for? That sort of mental health
really went downhill after that.
S3 (08:47):
What was that like for you, Laura? Because I remember
when that happened. But what's the impact on you and
then the whole family.
S4 (08:55):
It's more you don't know what you're going to wake
up to. You know, you don't know. Is it going
to be a good day? Is it going to be
a bad day? Like I actually and it still hasn't
happened after all these years. I actually expected the big
blow up. Like as in not a physical attack because,
you know, it would never hurt me, but just that
(09:18):
I need someone to yell at. And you're my safe place.
And you know, I need to get this out. You
get a couple of snappy remarks or, you know, whatever.
Or you could tell, like, even the whole profile of
his face. You can tell when it it's not good.
You know what I mean? Like, you can tell it's
not a good day, so I, I learned quickly you
give him that space. You know you're there if you
(09:41):
need to be. But you you step back and you,
you let him deal with it his way. I think
the kids will. I say kids, they're. They're adults. Like
our kids were 18, 21 and 24 when the accident happened.
The two younger ones were still at home and they
like being boys. They they took on a lot of
(10:03):
the the man stuff around the house. You know, they
because we were on acreage, they kept the yard, you know,
in order and whatever else. Which very frustrating for Nathan
because he loved that. And of course, they didn't do it,
you know, his way, but they still did it. They
felt they were doing everything they could to help but
feel unappreciated, because as much as he did appreciate what
(10:25):
they were doing, it frustrated him that he couldn't do
it himself. It was hard on them, and even now
they sort of go, oh, you know, if if he
needs help or something, they're a bit reluctant. Now. It's
sort of like, oh, I'm not going to do it right.
So why am I, you know, what do you, what
do you want my help for type thing. Because, you know,
you're going to stand there and tell me I'm doing
(10:45):
it wrong. But they stood up when they needed to,
and they, you know, they kept their house going because
I was at that hospital for 77 days straight. You
know what I mean? And they were at that point
where they needed me as well. But it was like,
you've had your time. Type thing. I need to be
here now. And they could look after themselves. They could,
you know, they were just used to me doing everything
(11:08):
for them still. But they did. They did step up
when they needed to. It's. Yeah.
S3 (11:13):
And it wasn't just the 77 days it's been. It
was years and years.
S4 (11:17):
Yeah, I know, but that.
S3 (11:19):
Yeah that.
S4 (11:19):
Initial time that was the, that was how many days
you spent in hospital. And you know he was very
I went in hospital. It was no nurses showering me.
No one's doing this. I, I had to be there
to do it because he wouldn't let anyone else do it.
I don't know if he remembers that or knows that, but,
you know, it was. She's not showering me. She's not
(11:40):
changing my clothes. She's not doing this. She's not touching
my feet. You need to do it. I want you
to do it. I don't trust anyone else to do it,
you know? So that's. I spent 12 hours a day
at the hospital for that time, which it was sort
of it was okay with work as well. It worked
out well because it was Covid time. So I was
on Job Keeper, still getting paid and everything like that
(12:01):
for whatever job keeper provided. So and work was really
good and sort of did the best they could to
accommodate for me. So that sort of worked well at
that time. But yeah, the kids sort of they don't
have the patience that I had to know that this,
you know, this is how it is today, but tomorrow
might be different. They were just like, no.
S3 (12:23):
If I swing over to the Smiths, Amy and Amy,
a physical injury is a really. Everything's fine. Boom! No.
Not fine. Right. It's a really quick break. So there's
two parts of psychological injury is not quick, and it
generally has had a very long run up until someone
has the strength to put in a claim. And by
(12:46):
the time the claim has happened, oftentimes the injury started
18 months ago. Your pathway is different. Could you just
explain that pathway and then that impact on you as
it started to unfold?
S5 (12:59):
So my pathway dates back to a number of years
and it was slowly bubbling under the surface at my
corporate job. I was an IT manager basically for the
last probably ten years, I've been ridiculed and micromanaged and
belittled in front of everyone and just constantly in a
(13:21):
man's world, in the IT industry, for a business in
construction and retail and, um, slowly grinding away at me,
being belittled by other women as well, senior leaders in
the business. Um, instead of, you know, supporting one another,
they bring you down. After multiple years of just being
harassed and and worked into the ground and then during Covid, um,
(13:44):
I stuck my neck out for another employee, and then
I was labeled as a causation of their claim. Because
I brought something to light, I didn't think it could
get any worse, but it got worse like it was
getting progressively worse. And then I found out I needed
to have time off for surgery due to uterine cancer.
And at that stage, I didn't know that it was
that it was just a hysterectomy at that stage. When
(14:06):
I went to return to work after fully recovered, I
had found out that a few things behind the scenes
had taken place. Um, and they had no intention of
having me back to the workplace unless I could be
in the physical office. And they knew that there was
a complication to surgery, and the surgeon had accidentally put
five holes in my bladder, and so I had to
was 100% incontinent and had to wear a catheter. But
(14:27):
I'd been working remotely for a number of years prior
to this surgery, and they wanted me back at the
office full time, you know, 40, 50 hours a week, um,
without any negotiation. And I said, obviously I can't. My
surgeon said, I'm 100% incontinent. I need some dignity. Work
from home. They said no. And it was just this
last straw that broke the camel's back. Really for me.
(14:49):
I did everything to get back to work. I returned
to work for a day and a half. Then they
suspended me and I even went to the lawyers and everything.
But these guys have just flat out ran me into
the ground and wouldn't accommodate anything for me. And, um, yeah,
they they kept me on medical leave for far too long. And, um,
(15:09):
that was their way of pushing me out of the
business without getting me on anything else. Because I was
an overachiever. They couldn't get me on any performance wise.
And so after years and years of trying not to
go down that track, I went down the workers compensation track.
If I'd done that earlier, I probably wouldn't be in
such a state that I am today. But it affected
holistically everything. I loved my job. I was an IT
(15:30):
manager and that was it's like my whole life just
sort of disappeared before my eyes. And, um, and yeah,
I have good and bad days still, but I guess
where it's really hard for me is the fact that
the recovery isn't linear. But when the insurer is trying
to discredit you and your medical team. It, um, certainly
(15:51):
triggers what, you know, they were doing at work. And
so I felt like that the insurer didn't believe I
was as sick as my medical team is telling them,
and that I should have been back at work months ago. Um,
I'm still kind of in that space of not had
the best couple of months. Um, but what's worse is
(16:13):
the fact that this business is my family's business. So
not only have I lost my job, there goes the
majority of my family. And so, um. Yeah, at the
end of the day, it's, um, been a rough journey.
It's not a nice feeling to have to do this
to your family's business, but it's also not right for
me to have to be subjected to that sort of
(16:33):
behavior from family and third party and, um. Yeah. Enough's enough.
Here I am today, 18 months in. I'm in a
lot better space, but I'm having good and bad days still. Emily,
did you want to add anything?
S2 (16:45):
Yeah. It was a long lead up into the actual
claim itself. My background is industrial relations, human resources, and
so I could see that she was being constructively dismissed.
And so for a couple of years we were fighting
to keep her job, which was hard because obviously there's
financial pressures around lawyers and the like. And so I
(17:05):
would be in the middle of major issues at work,
and I'd be having to stop and draft letters in
preparation to save some money so that the lawyer could
sign off on it and send it through. So it
was there was a lot of lead up into it. Um,
probably more than Amy probably realised at the time. And
or all the time she was angry. She was not happy.
(17:28):
It wasn't a very good place for her to be.
And then she had the surgery and then the complications.
I remember sitting on the bed when she received the
letter from the managing director and I said, enough, Amy,
you can't take this anymore. And when we sat there
and we collated all the information to ensure that, you know,
we weren't being overly emotional about it. I actually had
a moment where I realized how much she hadn't told
(17:51):
me what was going on. The harassment, the badgering, the
it was unbelievable. No workplace should should treat anybody, let
alone a member of their own family, in such a way.
There was no doubt in my mind that Amy had
to go down the workers compensation route. Having worked in
corporate roles, I was always the one. Like Amy talks
(18:13):
about that. Make sure people are safe, secure that they
didn't have to go down this route. But there was
no doubt that she'd been injured and constantly injured for
a long period of time. So it was definitely something
that there's no doubt in my mind. I don't think
Amy would be here today if she hadn't gone down
that that route. She probably would have physically and emotionally
(18:35):
given up had a something would have happened. I can
guarantee that because reading the the documentation I read, it
was hideous. And she didn't even tell me half of it.
So it was like a dripping tap constantly eventually makes
a hole in the concrete, and that was what was
happening to her for years and years. It was just
horrible to watch somebody and then realize how bad it was.
S3 (18:57):
But both Ann Marie and Laura, what are the biggest
obstacles that come with having a partner that has a
workers comp injury?
S4 (19:07):
Maybe even say the first three years couldn't plan anything,
nothing at all. Like you didn't know what the day
was going to bring. We both worked, kids worked. We
you know, we had to have everything very well planned.
You know, picking kids up, driving stuff around, doing stuff.
Everything like that would not have made a single plan
(19:28):
for anything for probably three years, I reckon. So that
was you know, it's like, oh, can you come here
or can we do this? Or it's like, I just
don't know. I'm going to tell you five minutes before
if we can leave the house today or if we can,
you know, if we can be there, if we can
do that, that that was the probably a big impact
(19:49):
on everyday stuff because you, you just didn't know if
they're going to be okay to go today or do
anything to sit there just to be there. A lot
of the time. And Anne-Marie will know this. You can't
do anything to make them feel better. You can pretend
all you want. You can fix it. And I'm definitely.
I'm a fixer. You know, when something happens, I'm rushing
(20:10):
in and I'm fixing it. But you can't fix this.
You know, you just have to ride it out.
S2 (20:15):
So from my perspective, I don't think workplaces realize the
impact that they can actually have on a person's family. Um,
and the impact is that that person becomes the sole
person that supports, like we were saying, um, it tries
to fix things, but, you know, you can't fix it.
The reassure the person that explains to people why you
(20:37):
can't go somewhere because your loved one is triggered and
is not having a great day. Taking on the household
duties and chores and pretty much everything the day to
day stuff. Um, as well as watching your loved one
not be themselves and be be a shell of themselves. Um,
and that's really hard to watch. And it has a
(20:58):
psychological toll on a person's family. And for me, the
workplaces need to understand that at the end of the day,
it's not just your employees that you will make sure
are safe and go home in the in the same
state or a better state than they came to work,
but also their families. Conceptually, I always understood it, but
living it is a very different beast.
S3 (21:20):
So how have you both approached finding that strength to
get through this?
S4 (21:26):
You just have to. You don't have a choice.
S2 (21:28):
Yep, that's exactly right. Yeah.
S4 (21:30):
You just got.
S2 (21:30):
To take one day at a time. You just keep
pushing through. White knuckle it, I call it.
S4 (21:37):
It's like any relationship though. They say relationships are 50
over 50, but they're not. You know, you can be
80 over 20. You can be, you know, whatever you
need to be to make it whole.
S5 (21:47):
Emery's 100 100 at the moment. Yeah.
S4 (21:49):
Well that's okay because you know you're going to bounce
back and you'll be the strong one when she needs
it one day. It's just how it works. Yep.
S2 (21:58):
Totally agree. It's it's a partnership. It's a life partnership.
And you take the good and the bad and the ugly,
and you face it together. And if you can face
it together, you can face anything.
S4 (22:08):
It's probably. It probably made our relationship stronger if that
was you know, if that was a thing, there was
there's no doubt. There's no question that was like I
had people say to me, you know, how do you
do it? Why are you still there? Like, well, you know,
what do you mean? Why am I still here? You
make that commitment because that's what it is. You don't.
You don't run away when things get tough. Like that's
(22:29):
not how it works. You know, if you have to
be that strong person, it definitely strengthens the bond. It's totally,
totally different, but you just got to make it work.
S2 (22:41):
And I had the same thing. I had the managing
director's wife say to me, well.
S4 (22:46):
Look, why don't you walk away? Yeah, pretty much.
S2 (22:48):
Pretty much. Like, I can't believe you're still still here.
S5 (22:51):
At a family wedding, I'm sitting next to her in
a wheelchair.
S4 (22:54):
People don't get it. They don't have that connection with someone.
S6 (22:57):
I know when I was in my really, really might
have even been the day around Caroline. And that day there,
I think I went home and I said to Laura,
why are you still here? Like, why do you put
up with the fact that I can't do stuff? Because
if I can't do it, someone else has got to
do it. And it makes me feel like crap watching
(23:18):
them having to do it.
S4 (23:19):
I don't see it as I'm picking up your slack
or anything like that. I just see it as this
is how today is. This is what I do on today.
Like it's, you.
S5 (23:27):
Know, it is definitely hard from our perspective. Yeah. I
feeling like a burden and.
S4 (23:33):
Yeah that's it.
S5 (23:34):
You're not burdens the hard part to sort of get
over because I looked out the window the other day
I'm sitting here watching TV? I look out the window
and Emery's like, limping from the car. She's just got
home from. Or just coming in from, like, mowing our
property or feeding the cows or the horses. On top
(23:56):
of working, on top of doing everything else. And I
just look in and I just go, I don't know
how she's doing it. Like, because she can barely put
one foot in front of the other at the moment.
S4 (24:05):
You just you just.
S2 (24:06):
Do you just do it. And I think, I think
the key is I don't know if it's the same
for you, but it's not resenting the person for not
being able to do it. It's resenting the situation. If
you depersonalize it and you go, it's just a really
shitty circumstance we're in. It becomes a lot easier to
do all the little bits and pieces that you do. Yeah,
you might be tired, but you'll get up and you
(24:28):
do it again the next day because it's.
S4 (24:29):
Just you just have to.
S2 (24:31):
You have to and it's just a bit of bad
luck that you're facing and you're facing it together.
S3 (24:35):
I don't know if you guys can see the tears
that are constantly rolling down my face right now, but
I feel like we've kind of warped into some sort
of like, relationship counselling thing, because I think I was
divorced eight years ago. And so if you kind of
put the work injury aside just to have that solid
foundation with someone, and this is the stuff that tests you.
(24:56):
Tests any relationship. And I just love hearing that from
the two of you as to what you do to
keep and have kept Amy and Nathan going from Amy
and Nathan's side. When you hear that, what are the
thoughts that go through your mind as a result of that?
S6 (25:18):
It's hard for me to find the right words. Like,
like if you go back prior to the accident, Laura
and I probably weren't as close as we are now.
So my accident has probably brought us closer together than
where we would have been had I not had an accident.
So it's really hard for me to put into words
how I feel about that. But every day I now
(25:41):
tell her, you know, three, at least 3 or 4
times how much I love her.
S3 (25:44):
This won't be an advertisement for people to go and
have a claim just to do some relationship mending, to have.
S4 (25:49):
A good relationship.
S3 (25:51):
Just preface that because this is tough, right? Like, that's
why we wanted to have this because the family is
so critical in helping recovery. It helps prop you up.
It helps get you through. It takes you to appointments.
Just today, I had someone come in to the office
and since their injury, they've not been able to drive
and so they won't leave until the partner goes with them.
(26:14):
It's exhausting for the partner to be able to do that,
and that's why there's so much added stress. But what
I'm hearing from Ann Marie and Laura is that you
just do it.
S4 (26:23):
Yeah, he didn't drive for quite a while, and just
one day he had got in the car and decided
to go and drive without whilst I was at work
and just tell me he went for a drive today. So,
you know.
S6 (26:35):
I do have to say as well that I was
Probably as much as I was probably not the nicest
person to the family prior to the accident, and I
hope I've changed them.
S4 (26:48):
Yeah, he was he was impatient and arrogant and entitled,
and it turned into this patient, loving, sweet man. It
was all the drugs. Eric.
S6 (27:00):
I've had a great family around me and I've had
probably the best friends, four best friends that anyone could
ever ask for. Without their support and especially like the
kids and stuff like that. Doing a lot of things
that my sons are so protective. Um, it changed me,
(27:21):
which for the better. But I'm hoping by doing that.
Like I said before, it brings Laura and I closer
together if I continued down the same path I was
during the the highlight of the work cover crap, we
may have Might've not stayed together. And that I think
about a lot, too.
S3 (27:42):
You know, unfortunately, Anne Marie and Amy, you're still in.
It makes a big difference to what's going on on
the day to day. All of the acronyms are still
flying through, and the change of the case managers and
the doctors. And your time is not your own. I
do know that Nathan and Laura have recently had the
opportunity to exit the scheme. I would imagine that life
(28:04):
has taken a bit of a turn now for you guys.
As far as being able to get your routine back.
S4 (28:09):
It's like there there's peace. It was hard to get
through it all, especially when they weren't independently and go,
go do it again. And one doctor don't agree with
another doctor and you know, all that stuff that goes
with it. Because Nathan had the psychological side as well,
because of the PTSD and everything. So when you've got
(28:30):
one claim that then turns into a different, you know,
one and they're like, oh, so what is it? Why
is it? What? You know, they don't believe that that's
from that or that sort of stuff. When it finally
just stops, like all the doctor's appointments, all the psychiatrist
and the psychologists and, you know, rehab and all that
sort of stuff. And it just stops. It's it's sort
(28:53):
of like, oh, what do you do now? Well, you
know what I mean. Like you, you haven't got ten
different appointments this week. You've only got two. It's yeah,
it's sort of it's sort of peaceful.
S6 (29:03):
Stress goes away because you're not constantly asking permission.
S4 (29:07):
And you don't have to keep rehashing what happened again
and again and again to someone different for them to
have their view of it or their perception of it or,
you know, that sort of thing.
S6 (29:17):
So and then to tell you, there's nothing wrong with you.
S4 (29:20):
You should be better now. Your legs, your legs are healed.
You know, your bones are healed even though they're screwed together.
S3 (29:26):
If you guys, all four of you could give anyone
listening advice on how to best get through this as
a relationship, what would it be?
S2 (29:36):
Don't resent the person, resent the situation because it changes
your mindset towards your loved one, because it's not their
fault that they're in that situation. It's just a real
shitty situation to be in and you can do it together.
S4 (29:49):
Well, money's just got to be there. There was no question.
There was no doubt there was. Just take each day
as it comes and just ride it out.
S3 (29:57):
If a partner is struggling and they really are struggling
to remove themselves, what would you advise them to do?
S2 (30:05):
That's a hard one for me.
S4 (30:06):
It's a hard one.
S2 (30:07):
Um, I think that anybody who's got a loved one
in the scheme, that old saying, you have to put
your face mask on yourself. So they need to do
the self-care stuff for themselves. They need to go. And,
you know, if they need to seek, um, therapy and
supports and make sure that they don't lose themselves in
it either. So it's not selfish to do the self-care
(30:29):
for yourself and take time away and get people to
help you, because sometimes as the carer, you do need
to actually step away so that you can continue to
care in a stronger mindset.
S6 (30:39):
Something that I think I've found, especially being in the
with MSN for a long time now, is information. Information
is key. If you have someone who's injured, you get
no information or very lack luster from WorkCover or the
insurance company. They don't want to pay anything out, but
(31:01):
they don't tell you what you are entitled to. So
to me, when I was really horrible, I had a
good support network of going, this is what you're entitled to.
And it helped Laura then go, okay, so I think
information is key. The more information that a partner can
get to help the injured or vice versa is the
(31:24):
best thing that's going on, because there's so many things
available that you're just not told about. And that's what's
wrong with the system. You're just not informed. WorkCover doesn't
give a crap about the families. They don't care who's
looking after them. They don't care how they're feeling looking
after the person. A lot of employers have a system
(31:46):
where the families can ring and talk to someone. I
think they should do it or lifeline someone else to
talk to if they're having a bad day.
S3 (31:54):
Yeah, and that's a really hard one because WorkCover unfortunately,
the legislation was written so long ago and it actually
has this view about physical injury too. So it's kind
of really geared up for that. And as soon as
it goes into psychological, no one knows what to do.
And then you've got the families. So the scheme just
isn't ready to take that on. But places like lifeline
(32:16):
are and and Marie, when you talked about putting your
own face mask on, I agree with you. That's so critical.
Being able to do that and that self-care.
S5 (32:24):
I've just got one point to add, if I may.
I think it's really valuable that once you've got a
rhythm going with your psychologist was to have Emery sit
in on a couple of those sessions. So she understood,
and my psychologist was able to offer just some sort
of ideas around how to get me moving a bit
(32:44):
more and, you know, like stop being stuck in my
head and, and things like that. And so just having
Emery part of that process helped me get a cadence
and turn up every week. Um, because not only was
she driving me there, but also her coming there, not
just parking, getting out of the car and following me
up the stairs and into my psychologist's office, um, helped
(33:06):
a lot in the beginning. Um, it wasn't every session.
It was like once or twice, I think, in the beginning. But, um,
I think that helped because it's a daunting thing having
to go to a psychologist, but also then having to
go home and your loved one going, so what did
you talk about? You know, like and then having to
rehash it, that's what I found anyway.
S3 (33:24):
We often say in my social support network that you're best.
Tomorrow begins today, and I hope for people that have
been listening today that you have been able to get
some information. Realize that this is a process. This isn't you.
The process doesn't have to be you and that your
best tomorrow can actually begin today. I really want to
thank The Mitchells and the Smiths for being on today,
(33:46):
because you have opened my eyes into how families can
survive this, and it's not easy, but we're so grateful
for the courage that you have shown in opening up
and being so honest with us. And I really hope
that this gives other people the support that they need.
S1 (34:03):
If you're a carer and you would like to be
part of the My Social Support Network Carers programme, please
get in contact info at MSN.com, that's info at MSN.
Com.au and of course, if any of today's content was
triggering for you or raise some questions, please be in
(34:23):
touch with support services such as Lifeline and Beyond Blue.
If you feel you may be physically in danger, please
contact your emergency services on 000.
Hello and welcome to the My Social Support Network podcast,
a series to guide you along the path to recovery
while on workers compensation. In this series, we will answer
questions from you and provide information from experts and people
with lived experience currently going through worker's compensation and those
who have made their way to the other side. Through
these interactions, we'll be giving you tools, advice, but most importantly,
(00:24):
encouragement on what can be a stressful time when you're
also recovering from an injury sustained in your workplace.
S2 (00:31):
All the time. She was angry and I said, enough.
You can't take this anymore. It was unbelievable. No workplace
should treat anybody, let alone a member of their own family,
in such a way.
S3 (00:41):
One of the big questions that people will often have
in worker's comp is what happens to the family. There's
a lot of time that's spent talking about the injured
worker and the injured workers journey, but very few of
us ever get to lift the lid and actually talk
to people that are going through it as a family member.
Today we're going to talk to the Mitchells and the
Smiths about their worker's comp journey. They come from two
(01:05):
very different backgrounds. One family is still in it and
one family has had the opportunity to exit. I'm really
excited to bring this podcast to you today because there
is so much that we can learn from it, and
I really hope that it enables people who are currently
going through worker's compensation or their families to get some
(01:26):
hope and some information and find that courage to get
you through, because you will get through this. Let's start
with talking to the Mitchells about their experience. I actually
think that both couples that we've got today have been
together for quite some time. How many years have you
guys been together?
S4 (01:46):
33.
S3 (01:47):
And you have kids?
S4 (01:49):
Three biological children, and we have lots of kids that
have ascended to us because they come from bad families
that claim us as theirs and we claim them, and
then all the grandchildren as well.
S3 (02:02):
And neither of you look old enough to be in
that situation, I've got to say. And for the Smiths,
how many years have you guys been together as a couple?
S5 (02:10):
I'm going to get in trouble here, but I'm pretty
sure it's almost 20 years, isn't it?
S2 (02:15):
21 in April next year?
S5 (02:17):
I knew this would be the case. We have this
debate every year.
S3 (02:22):
It's slightly different situations, actually, for both of you. I
want to preface that because the Mitchells have recently exited
the scheme and the Smiths are still in the thick
of it. So I want to actually ask Laura and
Nathan first up, because I don't know if you would
call it a privilege or not, but I have had
the opportunity to be with you guys for pretty much
(02:44):
the entire journey through worker's comp. And so from my perspective,
I've seen highs and lows in the scheme that, um,
that you have to navigate. But explain to the listener,
the experience for you guys like what was life before
and now.
S4 (03:04):
Everything changed except where we lived in the car we
drove changed. You know, your financial, your social, your physical,
your money, your work, everything, every aspect of your life.
Totally different. Like, and not just obviously for Nathan because
he was injured, but for me as well. You know,
(03:25):
the first response was, okay, am I going to have
to stop work to look after him full time because
the injury was so bad? And that was the first
sort of part of it. And then there was, okay,
now we've we've got to get through the the three
months in hospital, the whole case workers and that sort
of thing kept changing. And the basic, um, description they
(03:50):
put of a injury on a CAC did not really
explain what had happened to him. So you've got new caseworker. Go. Oh,
you broke your legs. So you know you're okay now.
You know, just things like that. It was hard to
reiterate to someone new that, no, he's not going to
(04:11):
be okay next week. Like even the initial one, the
day after his injury, I got a call from WorkCover.
You know, because obviously it was put through. Um, will
he be right to drive to work next week, or
will he need a driver? Um, he's not going to
walk for the next 2 or 3 months. Like, no,
that's that's not okay. And and when you're in the
(04:32):
thick of it going, you know what's happening with your
life and everything like that. Uh, to be asked a
stupid question like that when they should know the details, it's. Yeah,
it's really hard to. Yeah.
S3 (04:45):
What's so interesting is that you just used the acronym COC,
and I bet $1,000 that the day before Nathan had
the injury, you would not have known what CoC means,
which is a certificate of incapacity.
S4 (04:57):
No, no.
S3 (04:57):
And now I guess you have to.
S4 (04:59):
Speak that language because of. Yeah.
S3 (05:01):
If it's okay with you. Nathan, are you all right?
If we kind of describe what happened in your injury.
Near on.
S6 (05:07):
Three tons of steel, uh, dropped. Crushed me legs, trapped
me inside a machine. And I don't remember pretty much
any of it. I passed out that many times, and
I remember bits and pieces. Remember making jokes that I
won't be at work tomorrow thinking, you know, I'll be
(05:27):
at work next week, though I've only just got, you know,
sore legs. I'll be right to wake up in hospital.
And I thought it was the next day, but it
was two weeks later. You know, people have been saying,
I've been having conversations with them, and I can't remember that.
I never knew the full scope of my injuries until
I probably come out of hospital, which was three months later,
(05:48):
because mentally I wasn't ready for it. Uh, physically, I
could look down and go, wow, I can't walk while
my legs like this. Why are all the scars? Because
I have more than 30 scars over my legs and
from the knees down. I'm full of metal and it's
the only thing that's holding me legs together. And unfortunately,
(06:10):
the bits I do remember in the hospital are not
great because my skin on my legs wasn't broken from
all the steel hitting me and trapping me in the machine,
so no one realized that my bones were all crushed
and there was nothing left, and they were picking me up,
telling me to move my legs this way. Move and
they'll just jelly. There's nothing. Modern surgeons did a great job,
(06:33):
did a great job. They've bolted me back together. I've
got rods and everything, holding every bone pretty much in
my legs together. Reattached all the tendons and nerves and
all the bits and pieces. And I can walk now. And,
you know, I did my first push up today, and
the accident was more, more than four and a half,
five years ago. So I'm still progressing, but I'm excited.
(06:55):
I got a push up here. But I will say
that as much as the physical side of things, the
mental side hit as well, and that hit pretty hard. Uh,
probably after I was let go from work. To me,
I live to work and live for the family and
stuff like that. But when my work was taken away,
(07:16):
it's like, oh, hang on, I'm actually injured. And it
took a bit for it soak into me to go.
I'm not going back to work in a hurry. So
mentally that really is like, oh hang on, what do
I do?
S4 (07:29):
But that is what got you up on your feet
and moving and everything quicker. Like he was pushing or
wanting to get home. But you know, his accident was
the start of July and he was dead set. He
was going to be back at work by Christmas. And that's,
you know, that's what pushed him through that rehab every day.
That's what pushed him back to be on his feet
(07:50):
and to to keep going because I'm going to be
back at work. I'm going to be back at work.
And then it was the year after that. They said
in the December, we don't have a place for you anymore.
I mean, they made it sound like that they were
doing him a favor so that when work cover stopped,
he could in that time, he could go find something else.
(08:12):
Like because work covers eventually going to stop. You know,
it's like, well, if we're holding you to this, this,
this is good for you, you go find something that
you can do because you can't do this. So they
they sort of turned it around to say to him,
you know, we're doing you a favor where he did
obviously didn't see it like that. He did so well.
What have I been working towards if I can't go
(08:33):
back there? Which sort of that's when the, the mental
side of it kicked in big time. Like you just,
you know, when you take that purpose away, what do
you got to fight for? That sort of mental health
really went downhill after that.
S3 (08:47):
What was that like for you, Laura? Because I remember
when that happened. But what's the impact on you and
then the whole family.
S4 (08:55):
It's more you don't know what you're going to wake
up to. You know, you don't know. Is it going
to be a good day? Is it going to be
a bad day? Like I actually and it still hasn't
happened after all these years. I actually expected the big
blow up. Like as in not a physical attack because,
you know, it would never hurt me, but just that
(09:18):
I need someone to yell at. And you're my safe place.
And you know, I need to get this out. You
get a couple of snappy remarks or, you know, whatever.
Or you could tell, like, even the whole profile of
his face. You can tell when it it's not good.
You know what I mean? Like, you can tell it's
not a good day, so I, I learned quickly you
give him that space. You know you're there if you
(09:41):
need to be. But you you step back and you,
you let him deal with it his way. I think
the kids will. I say kids, they're. They're adults. Like
our kids were 18, 21 and 24 when the accident happened.
The two younger ones were still at home and they
like being boys. They they took on a lot of
(10:03):
the the man stuff around the house. You know, they
because we were on acreage, they kept the yard, you know,
in order and whatever else. Which very frustrating for Nathan
because he loved that. And of course, they didn't do it,
you know, his way, but they still did it. They
felt they were doing everything they could to help but
feel unappreciated, because as much as he did appreciate what
(10:25):
they were doing, it frustrated him that he couldn't do
it himself. It was hard on them, and even now
they sort of go, oh, you know, if if he
needs help or something, they're a bit reluctant. Now. It's
sort of like, oh, I'm not going to do it right.
So why am I, you know, what do you, what
do you want my help for type thing. Because, you know,
you're going to stand there and tell me I'm doing
(10:45):
it wrong. But they stood up when they needed to,
and they, you know, they kept their house going because
I was at that hospital for 77 days straight. You
know what I mean? And they were at that point
where they needed me as well. But it was like,
you've had your time. Type thing. I need to be
here now. And they could look after themselves. They could,
you know, they were just used to me doing everything
(11:08):
for them still. But they did. They did step up
when they needed to. It's. Yeah.
S3 (11:13):
And it wasn't just the 77 days it's been. It
was years and years.
S4 (11:17):
Yeah, I know, but that.
S3 (11:19):
Yeah that.
S4 (11:19):
Initial time that was the, that was how many days
you spent in hospital. And you know he was very
I went in hospital. It was no nurses showering me.
No one's doing this. I, I had to be there
to do it because he wouldn't let anyone else do it.
I don't know if he remembers that or knows that, but,
you know, it was. She's not showering me. She's not
(11:40):
changing my clothes. She's not doing this. She's not touching
my feet. You need to do it. I want you
to do it. I don't trust anyone else to do it,
you know? So that's. I spent 12 hours a day
at the hospital for that time, which it was sort
of it was okay with work as well. It worked
out well because it was Covid time. So I was
on Job Keeper, still getting paid and everything like that
(12:01):
for whatever job keeper provided. So and work was really
good and sort of did the best they could to
accommodate for me. So that sort of worked well at
that time. But yeah, the kids sort of they don't
have the patience that I had to know that this,
you know, this is how it is today, but tomorrow
might be different. They were just like, no.
S3 (12:23):
If I swing over to the Smiths, Amy and Amy,
a physical injury is a really. Everything's fine. Boom! No.
Not fine. Right. It's a really quick break. So there's
two parts of psychological injury is not quick, and it
generally has had a very long run up until someone
has the strength to put in a claim. And by
(12:46):
the time the claim has happened, oftentimes the injury started
18 months ago. Your pathway is different. Could you just
explain that pathway and then that impact on you as
it started to unfold?
S5 (12:59):
So my pathway dates back to a number of years
and it was slowly bubbling under the surface at my
corporate job. I was an IT manager basically for the
last probably ten years, I've been ridiculed and micromanaged and
belittled in front of everyone and just constantly in a
(13:21):
man's world, in the IT industry, for a business in
construction and retail and, um, slowly grinding away at me,
being belittled by other women as well, senior leaders in
the business. Um, instead of, you know, supporting one another,
they bring you down. After multiple years of just being
harassed and and worked into the ground and then during Covid, um,
(13:44):
I stuck my neck out for another employee, and then
I was labeled as a causation of their claim. Because
I brought something to light, I didn't think it could
get any worse, but it got worse like it was
getting progressively worse. And then I found out I needed
to have time off for surgery due to uterine cancer.
And at that stage, I didn't know that it was
that it was just a hysterectomy at that stage. When
(14:06):
I went to return to work after fully recovered, I
had found out that a few things behind the scenes
had taken place. Um, and they had no intention of
having me back to the workplace unless I could be
in the physical office. And they knew that there was
a complication to surgery, and the surgeon had accidentally put
five holes in my bladder, and so I had to
was 100% incontinent and had to wear a catheter. But
(14:27):
I'd been working remotely for a number of years prior
to this surgery, and they wanted me back at the
office full time, you know, 40, 50 hours a week, um,
without any negotiation. And I said, obviously I can't. My
surgeon said, I'm 100% incontinent. I need some dignity. Work
from home. They said no. And it was just this
last straw that broke the camel's back. Really for me.
(14:49):
I did everything to get back to work. I returned
to work for a day and a half. Then they
suspended me and I even went to the lawyers and everything.
But these guys have just flat out ran me into
the ground and wouldn't accommodate anything for me. And, um, yeah,
they they kept me on medical leave for far too long. And, um,
(15:09):
that was their way of pushing me out of the
business without getting me on anything else. Because I was
an overachiever. They couldn't get me on any performance wise.
And so after years and years of trying not to
go down that track, I went down the workers compensation track.
If I'd done that earlier, I probably wouldn't be in
such a state that I am today. But it affected
holistically everything. I loved my job. I was an IT
(15:30):
manager and that was it's like my whole life just
sort of disappeared before my eyes. And, um, and yeah,
I have good and bad days still, but I guess
where it's really hard for me is the fact that
the recovery isn't linear. But when the insurer is trying
to discredit you and your medical team. It, um, certainly
(15:51):
triggers what, you know, they were doing at work. And
so I felt like that the insurer didn't believe I
was as sick as my medical team is telling them,
and that I should have been back at work months ago. Um,
I'm still kind of in that space of not had
the best couple of months. Um, but what's worse is
(16:13):
the fact that this business is my family's business. So
not only have I lost my job, there goes the
majority of my family. And so, um. Yeah, at the
end of the day, it's, um, been a rough journey.
It's not a nice feeling to have to do this
to your family's business, but it's also not right for
me to have to be subjected to that sort of
(16:33):
behavior from family and third party and, um. Yeah. Enough's enough.
Here I am today, 18 months in. I'm in a
lot better space, but I'm having good and bad days still. Emily,
did you want to add anything?
S2 (16:45):
Yeah. It was a long lead up into the actual
claim itself. My background is industrial relations, human resources, and
so I could see that she was being constructively dismissed.
And so for a couple of years we were fighting
to keep her job, which was hard because obviously there's
financial pressures around lawyers and the like. And so I
(17:05):
would be in the middle of major issues at work,
and I'd be having to stop and draft letters in
preparation to save some money so that the lawyer could
sign off on it and send it through. So it
was there was a lot of lead up into it. Um,
probably more than Amy probably realised at the time. And
or all the time she was angry. She was not happy.
(17:28):
It wasn't a very good place for her to be.
And then she had the surgery and then the complications.
I remember sitting on the bed when she received the
letter from the managing director and I said, enough, Amy,
you can't take this anymore. And when we sat there
and we collated all the information to ensure that, you know,
we weren't being overly emotional about it. I actually had
a moment where I realized how much she hadn't told
(17:51):
me what was going on. The harassment, the badgering, the
it was unbelievable. No workplace should should treat anybody, let
alone a member of their own family, in such a way.
There was no doubt in my mind that Amy had
to go down the workers compensation route. Having worked in
corporate roles, I was always the one. Like Amy talks
(18:13):
about that. Make sure people are safe, secure that they
didn't have to go down this route. But there was
no doubt that she'd been injured and constantly injured for
a long period of time. So it was definitely something
that there's no doubt in my mind. I don't think
Amy would be here today if she hadn't gone down
that that route. She probably would have physically and emotionally
(18:35):
given up had a something would have happened. I can
guarantee that because reading the the documentation I read, it
was hideous. And she didn't even tell me half of it.
So it was like a dripping tap constantly eventually makes
a hole in the concrete, and that was what was
happening to her for years and years. It was just
horrible to watch somebody and then realize how bad it was.
S3 (18:57):
But both Ann Marie and Laura, what are the biggest
obstacles that come with having a partner that has a
workers comp injury?
S4 (19:07):
Maybe even say the first three years couldn't plan anything,
nothing at all. Like you didn't know what the day
was going to bring. We both worked, kids worked. We
you know, we had to have everything very well planned.
You know, picking kids up, driving stuff around, doing stuff.
Everything like that would not have made a single plan
(19:28):
for anything for probably three years, I reckon. So that
was you know, it's like, oh, can you come here
or can we do this? Or it's like, I just
don't know. I'm going to tell you five minutes before
if we can leave the house today or if we can,
you know, if we can be there, if we can
do that, that that was the probably a big impact
(19:49):
on everyday stuff because you, you just didn't know if
they're going to be okay to go today or do
anything to sit there just to be there. A lot
of the time. And Anne-Marie will know this. You can't
do anything to make them feel better. You can pretend
all you want. You can fix it. And I'm definitely.
I'm a fixer. You know, when something happens, I'm rushing
(20:10):
in and I'm fixing it. But you can't fix this.
You know, you just have to ride it out.
S2 (20:15):
So from my perspective, I don't think workplaces realize the
impact that they can actually have on a person's family. Um,
and the impact is that that person becomes the sole
person that supports, like we were saying, um, it tries
to fix things, but, you know, you can't fix it.
The reassure the person that explains to people why you
(20:37):
can't go somewhere because your loved one is triggered and
is not having a great day. Taking on the household
duties and chores and pretty much everything the day to
day stuff. Um, as well as watching your loved one
not be themselves and be be a shell of themselves. Um,
and that's really hard to watch. And it has a
(20:58):
psychological toll on a person's family. And for me, the
workplaces need to understand that at the end of the day,
it's not just your employees that you will make sure
are safe and go home in the in the same
state or a better state than they came to work,
but also their families. Conceptually, I always understood it, but
living it is a very different beast.
S3 (21:20):
So how have you both approached finding that strength to
get through this?
S4 (21:26):
You just have to. You don't have a choice.
S2 (21:28):
Yep, that's exactly right. Yeah.
S4 (21:30):
You just got.
S2 (21:30):
To take one day at a time. You just keep
pushing through. White knuckle it, I call it.
S4 (21:37):
It's like any relationship though. They say relationships are 50
over 50, but they're not. You know, you can be
80 over 20. You can be, you know, whatever you
need to be to make it whole.
S5 (21:47):
Emery's 100 100 at the moment. Yeah.
S4 (21:49):
Well that's okay because you know you're going to bounce
back and you'll be the strong one when she needs
it one day. It's just how it works. Yep.
S2 (21:58):
Totally agree. It's it's a partnership. It's a life partnership.
And you take the good and the bad and the ugly,
and you face it together. And if you can face
it together, you can face anything.
S4 (22:08):
It's probably. It probably made our relationship stronger if that
was you know, if that was a thing, there was
there's no doubt. There's no question that was like I
had people say to me, you know, how do you
do it? Why are you still there? Like, well, you know,
what do you mean? Why am I still here? You
make that commitment because that's what it is. You don't.
You don't run away when things get tough. Like that's
(22:29):
not how it works. You know, if you have to
be that strong person, it definitely strengthens the bond. It's totally,
totally different, but you just got to make it work.
S2 (22:41):
And I had the same thing. I had the managing
director's wife say to me, well.
S4 (22:46):
Look, why don't you walk away? Yeah, pretty much.
S2 (22:48):
Pretty much. Like, I can't believe you're still still here.
S5 (22:51):
At a family wedding, I'm sitting next to her in
a wheelchair.
S4 (22:54):
People don't get it. They don't have that connection with someone.
S6 (22:57):
I know when I was in my really, really might
have even been the day around Caroline. And that day there,
I think I went home and I said to Laura,
why are you still here? Like, why do you put
up with the fact that I can't do stuff? Because
if I can't do it, someone else has got to
do it. And it makes me feel like crap watching
(23:18):
them having to do it.
S4 (23:19):
I don't see it as I'm picking up your slack
or anything like that. I just see it as this
is how today is. This is what I do on today.
Like it's, you.
S5 (23:27):
Know, it is definitely hard from our perspective. Yeah. I
feeling like a burden and.
S4 (23:33):
Yeah that's it.
S5 (23:34):
You're not burdens the hard part to sort of get
over because I looked out the window the other day
I'm sitting here watching TV? I look out the window
and Emery's like, limping from the car. She's just got
home from. Or just coming in from, like, mowing our
property or feeding the cows or the horses. On top
(23:56):
of working, on top of doing everything else. And I
just look in and I just go, I don't know
how she's doing it. Like, because she can barely put
one foot in front of the other at the moment.
S4 (24:05):
You just you just.
S2 (24:06):
Do you just do it. And I think, I think
the key is I don't know if it's the same
for you, but it's not resenting the person for not
being able to do it. It's resenting the situation. If
you depersonalize it and you go, it's just a really
shitty circumstance we're in. It becomes a lot easier to
do all the little bits and pieces that you do. Yeah,
you might be tired, but you'll get up and you
(24:28):
do it again the next day because it's.
S4 (24:29):
Just you just have to.
S2 (24:31):
You have to and it's just a bit of bad
luck that you're facing and you're facing it together.
S3 (24:35):
I don't know if you guys can see the tears
that are constantly rolling down my face right now, but
I feel like we've kind of warped into some sort
of like, relationship counselling thing, because I think I was
divorced eight years ago. And so if you kind of
put the work injury aside just to have that solid
foundation with someone, and this is the stuff that tests you.
(24:56):
Tests any relationship. And I just love hearing that from
the two of you as to what you do to
keep and have kept Amy and Nathan going from Amy
and Nathan's side. When you hear that, what are the
thoughts that go through your mind as a result of that?
S6 (25:18):
It's hard for me to find the right words. Like,
like if you go back prior to the accident, Laura
and I probably weren't as close as we are now.
So my accident has probably brought us closer together than
where we would have been had I not had an accident.
So it's really hard for me to put into words
how I feel about that. But every day I now
(25:41):
tell her, you know, three, at least 3 or 4
times how much I love her.
S3 (25:44):
This won't be an advertisement for people to go and
have a claim just to do some relationship mending, to have.
S4 (25:49):
A good relationship.
S3 (25:51):
Just preface that because this is tough, right? Like, that's
why we wanted to have this because the family is
so critical in helping recovery. It helps prop you up.
It helps get you through. It takes you to appointments.
Just today, I had someone come in to the office
and since their injury, they've not been able to drive
and so they won't leave until the partner goes with them.
(26:14):
It's exhausting for the partner to be able to do that,
and that's why there's so much added stress. But what
I'm hearing from Ann Marie and Laura is that you
just do it.
S4 (26:23):
Yeah, he didn't drive for quite a while, and just
one day he had got in the car and decided
to go and drive without whilst I was at work
and just tell me he went for a drive today. So,
you know.
S6 (26:35):
I do have to say as well that I was
Probably as much as I was probably not the nicest
person to the family prior to the accident, and I
hope I've changed them.
S4 (26:48):
Yeah, he was he was impatient and arrogant and entitled,
and it turned into this patient, loving, sweet man. It
was all the drugs. Eric.
S6 (27:00):
I've had a great family around me and I've had
probably the best friends, four best friends that anyone could
ever ask for. Without their support and especially like the
kids and stuff like that. Doing a lot of things
that my sons are so protective. Um, it changed me,
(27:21):
which for the better. But I'm hoping by doing that.
Like I said before, it brings Laura and I closer
together if I continued down the same path I was
during the the highlight of the work cover crap, we
may have Might've not stayed together. And that I think
about a lot, too.
S3 (27:42):
You know, unfortunately, Anne Marie and Amy, you're still in.
It makes a big difference to what's going on on
the day to day. All of the acronyms are still
flying through, and the change of the case managers and
the doctors. And your time is not your own. I
do know that Nathan and Laura have recently had the
opportunity to exit the scheme. I would imagine that life
(28:04):
has taken a bit of a turn now for you guys.
As far as being able to get your routine back.
S4 (28:09):
It's like there there's peace. It was hard to get
through it all, especially when they weren't independently and go,
go do it again. And one doctor don't agree with
another doctor and you know, all that stuff that goes
with it. Because Nathan had the psychological side as well,
because of the PTSD and everything. So when you've got
(28:30):
one claim that then turns into a different, you know,
one and they're like, oh, so what is it? Why
is it? What? You know, they don't believe that that's
from that or that sort of stuff. When it finally
just stops, like all the doctor's appointments, all the psychiatrist
and the psychologists and, you know, rehab and all that
sort of stuff. And it just stops. It's it's sort
(28:53):
of like, oh, what do you do now? Well, you
know what I mean. Like you, you haven't got ten
different appointments this week. You've only got two. It's yeah,
it's sort of it's sort of peaceful.
S6 (29:03):
Stress goes away because you're not constantly asking permission.
S4 (29:07):
And you don't have to keep rehashing what happened again
and again and again to someone different for them to
have their view of it or their perception of it or,
you know, that sort of thing.
S6 (29:17):
So and then to tell you, there's nothing wrong with you.
S4 (29:20):
You should be better now. Your legs, your legs are healed.
You know, your bones are healed even though they're screwed together.
S3 (29:26):
If you guys, all four of you could give anyone
listening advice on how to best get through this as
a relationship, what would it be?
S2 (29:36):
Don't resent the person, resent the situation because it changes
your mindset towards your loved one, because it's not their
fault that they're in that situation. It's just a real
shitty situation to be in and you can do it together.
S4 (29:49):
Well, money's just got to be there. There was no question.
There was no doubt there was. Just take each day
as it comes and just ride it out.
S3 (29:57):
If a partner is struggling and they really are struggling
to remove themselves, what would you advise them to do?
S2 (30:05):
That's a hard one for me.
S4 (30:06):
It's a hard one.
S2 (30:07):
Um, I think that anybody who's got a loved one
in the scheme, that old saying, you have to put
your face mask on yourself. So they need to do
the self-care stuff for themselves. They need to go. And,
you know, if they need to seek, um, therapy and
supports and make sure that they don't lose themselves in
it either. So it's not selfish to do the self-care
(30:29):
for yourself and take time away and get people to
help you, because sometimes as the carer, you do need
to actually step away so that you can continue to
care in a stronger mindset.
S6 (30:39):
Something that I think I've found, especially being in the
with MSN for a long time now, is information. Information
is key. If you have someone who's injured, you get
no information or very lack luster from WorkCover or the
insurance company. They don't want to pay anything out, but
(31:01):
they don't tell you what you are entitled to. So
to me, when I was really horrible, I had a
good support network of going, this is what you're entitled to.
And it helped Laura then go, okay, so I think
information is key. The more information that a partner can
get to help the injured or vice versa is the
(31:24):
best thing that's going on, because there's so many things
available that you're just not told about. And that's what's
wrong with the system. You're just not informed. WorkCover doesn't
give a crap about the families. They don't care who's
looking after them. They don't care how they're feeling looking
after the person. A lot of employers have a system
(31:46):
where the families can ring and talk to someone. I
think they should do it or lifeline someone else to
talk to if they're having a bad day.
S3 (31:54):
Yeah, and that's a really hard one because WorkCover unfortunately,
the legislation was written so long ago and it actually
has this view about physical injury too. So it's kind
of really geared up for that. And as soon as
it goes into psychological, no one knows what to do.
And then you've got the families. So the scheme just
isn't ready to take that on. But places like lifeline
(32:16):
are and and Marie, when you talked about putting your
own face mask on, I agree with you. That's so critical.
Being able to do that and that self-care.
S5 (32:24):
I've just got one point to add, if I may.
I think it's really valuable that once you've got a
rhythm going with your psychologist was to have Emery sit
in on a couple of those sessions. So she understood,
and my psychologist was able to offer just some sort
of ideas around how to get me moving a bit
(32:44):
more and, you know, like stop being stuck in my
head and, and things like that. And so just having
Emery part of that process helped me get a cadence
and turn up every week. Um, because not only was
she driving me there, but also her coming there, not
just parking, getting out of the car and following me
up the stairs and into my psychologist's office, um, helped
(33:06):
a lot in the beginning. Um, it wasn't every session.
It was like once or twice, I think, in the beginning. But, um,
I think that helped because it's a daunting thing having
to go to a psychologist, but also then having to
go home and your loved one going, so what did
you talk about? You know, like and then having to
rehash it, that's what I found anyway.
S3 (33:24):
We often say in my social support network that you're best.
Tomorrow begins today, and I hope for people that have
been listening today that you have been able to get
some information. Realize that this is a process. This isn't you.
The process doesn't have to be you and that your
best tomorrow can actually begin today. I really want to
thank The Mitchells and the Smiths for being on today,
(33:46):
because you have opened my eyes into how families can
survive this, and it's not easy, but we're so grateful
for the courage that you have shown in opening up
and being so honest with us. And I really hope
that this gives other people the support that they need.
S1 (34:03):
If you're a carer and you would like to be
part of the My Social Support Network Carers programme, please
get in contact info at MSN.com, that's info at MSN.
Com.au and of course, if any of today's content was
triggering for you or raise some questions, please be in
(34:23):
touch with support services such as Lifeline and Beyond Blue.
If you feel you may be physically in danger, please
contact your emergency services on 000.
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