July 4, 2024 • 26 mins
For some workers with injury, PTSD (or Post Traumatic Stress Disorder) plays a dominant part.
The Mayo Clinic in the U.S. describes PTSD thus: "The condition may last months or years, with triggers that can bring back memories of the trauma accompanied by intense emotional and physical reactions. Symptoms may include nightmares or flashbacks, avoidance of situations that bring back the trauma, heightened reactivity to stimuli, anxiety or depressed mood."
In today's episode we are joined by MSSN member Alex in conversation with MSSN Founder, Dr Caroline Howe.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
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S1 (00:01):
Hello and welcome to the My Social Support Network podcast,
a series to guide you along the path to recovery
while on workers compensation. In this series, we will answer
questions from you and provide information from experts and people
with lived experience currently going through worker's compensation and those
who have made their way to the other side. Through
these interactions, we'll be giving you tools, advice, but most importantly,
(00:24):
encouragement on what can be a stressful time when you're
also recovering from an injury sustained in your workplace. On
today's program, we're going to be speaking about PTSD. The
definition of PTSD is a psychiatric disorder that may occur
in people who have experienced or witnessed a traumatic, life
threatening event. Alex was diagnosed with PTSD following a life
(00:46):
threatening incident at work which changed his life both physically
and mentally. We're now joined Alex in conversation with the
My Social Support Network founder, Caroline Howell.
S2 (00:56):
Welcome to another episode of My Social Support Network. We
are talking today to Alex. Alex is one of the
My Social Support network members. He's had an injury since 2018,
and what we wanted to understand from his perspective is
his journey with PTSD over this time. So let's jump
straight into it and have a chat to Alex. You know, Alex,
(01:18):
you have had a very long journey in the workers
compensation scheme. And the recovery journey has also been long. Yeah,
it might be helpful to just have a little bit
of a context as to what happened. How did you
end up here?
S3 (01:37):
Okay, so I worked for Corrective Services for um for
a lot of years. I ended up coming back and
working for them as a as a casual. Subsequently, they
as soon as I came back, they gave me my
old role back, which was in the, in the transport department.
And I went over to Parklea jail. Uh, one morning
I was with an, an experienced officer who really shouldn't
(01:58):
have been doing the role. And, um, we were searching
an inmate ready to take him to court, and, uh,
the inmate totally went off tap, and, um, you know,
started becoming very, very abusive. But we had to continue
the search. There were a number of protocols that weren't followed,
basically because it was an inexperienced staff member I was with.
And also I was in a private jail, and their
(02:21):
security isn't as good as the government jail was. But anyway,
to cut a long story short, the search went horribly wrong.
I ended up getting, um, kicked in the face. loading
this particular inmate onto the track, and I broke, um,
numerous bottom teeth and, um, damaged my jaw and my tongue.
And from, you know, that incident I ended up with
(02:42):
the PTSD.
S2 (02:43):
Thank you for sharing that. You have had the opportunity
to learn a great deal over the time. And what
I thought would be lovely is to, I guess if
there are other injured workers out there that have or
are currently experiencing PTSD, what are some of the things
(03:06):
that you have learned in your journey that may be
helpful for other injured workers? You know, people who are
not connected to a community. They're not connected to anybody.
They might need some help. What are some of the
things that could be helpful for them?
S3 (03:23):
Yeah, I think the first thing that's very hard with
PTSD is recognizing you've even got it. So, um, for me,
it was a whole multiple, um, series of incidents that
formulated and then one day, bang. Um, you know, the
one incident set me off. So a part of the
(03:44):
PTSD is recognizing that when you have it, you know, um,
it's very easy just to ignore it or pretend you
haven't got it. And, um, you know, there's there's lots
of little signs. There's lots of things that that indicate
that you have PTSD.
S2 (03:57):
When when you're talking about all those little incidences, was
that what you you mean that there were a number
of little things, and then all of a sudden there
was one incident that actually triggered an event that made
you realize you needed some help.
S3 (04:09):
Yeah, yeah, it was, um, a particular injury that realized, whoa,
hang on, this is out of control. And it was
the nature of that particular injury that, um, that, that
kind of upset the apple cart, so to speak. A
lot of it for me was, was being able to
recognize that I had PTSD and then obviously go in and, and, um,
see a doctor and just talking to them about it
(04:31):
and And then, you know, when I look back, there
were so many, so many triggers and so many things
that were that were telling me that I had PTSD.
S2 (04:40):
People use the term PTSD a lot. It's not very
well understood. So when you're talking about PTSD, what were
some of the things you noticed were happening?
S3 (04:50):
Socially, I was becoming very awkward. I was very security aware.
So I would go out for a meal, and I
would always look at where I would sit in the restaurant.
I'd always make sure that I could see that door.
I then start doing security assessments on people that were
coming into the restaurant. I remember one particular case where
(05:11):
I went up to a shopping center, and I was
walking around the shopping center and a stocky young lad
that was of a similar race to the person that
assaulted me, came up and just asked the time. And
when he asked the time, you know, I stepped back.
I my hands went up. Everything that happened to me,
I just went into this defensive mode. And, you know,
I realized I was in a shopping center, you know,
(05:33):
I was in a perfectly safe environment. I was in
Saint Ives, you know, it's it's kind of an upmarket
type of an area. And, um, there was no need
to be like that. And, um, and yeah, it was
a big wake up call. And then, you know, from
that point on, I look back and there was a
lot of things that I was doing that were that
was that was pointing out to me that I did
(05:53):
have PTSD.
S2 (05:55):
How did you know when to ask for help?
S3 (05:59):
I think I just did a bit of a self-assessment
and I and I just went, Alex, it's not normal
what you're doing. Um, you really are a mess. Go
and talk to somebody about it. And I was very
lucky that my, um, local doctor, um, was a was
an ex-policeman. And, um, so he recognised straight away that,
you know, the symptoms that I had, and, um, he
(06:22):
helped me a lot, um, piece it together, you know.
S2 (06:24):
How long have you had your injury? For now.
S3 (06:27):
Well, I got injured in 2018.
S2 (06:30):
In all of that time. So now we're in 2024.
What do you think the three most helpful things have
been to help you recover?
S3 (06:42):
More social for sure. Talking to people. Because with the
PTSD you tend to just lock yourself away and basically hide. And, um,
you know, I'd always been quite a good communicator. I'd
always loved my sports. I'd always enjoyed my my work role. And, um,
all of a sudden, you know, that's all all taken
from you. And, um, before you know it, you're on
(07:02):
this real slippery path. You know, I was losing touch
with all my friends. I wasn't getting along very well
with my wife. Basically, my whole world shrunk.
S2 (07:12):
Apart from being more social. What were some of the
other things?
S3 (07:17):
Well, for me, getting out there and doing some type
of physical exercise or trying to maintain the things that
I did pre PTSD, I enjoyed motorcycling and so I
would constantly go out on the motorcycle, but you know,
with the PTSD it leads to you doing things very recklessly.
And you know for me that was a big a
(07:38):
big part of me. I would go out and I'd
really push the envelope. So try not to be really,
really hard on yourself. I remember I did an exercise
with you one time just tidying up a room. I
might have been at my daughter's place, you know, and
my room was a mess. And I remember you talking
me through the whole process of cleaning it up, and
I and I did it, and I felt I felt
good when I'd done it, you know, it was, um,
(08:00):
like a small little step. You know, I remember I
put a Facebook video post, post out when I first got, um,
PTSD and, um, I had a lot of people contact
me about it and they said, it comes in waves,
you know, it comes up and down you. One minute
you're okay, the next minute you can just plummet down
to a really low self-esteem. So for me, forming some
(08:22):
type of habit is always a good thing. You know,
I try and set myself a bit of a routine.
I'm living in, in a, in a van now, which
makes it a little bit harder. But what I do
is I try and go to bed or close down
when when the lights go down and then get up
first light. It's a little bit hard sometimes because you
go to bed very early and of course, you know,
they tell you not to play on your phone or
(08:43):
watch TV or whatever when you, when you go to bed,
because otherwise, you know, your brain is racing. So I
think you have to try and socialize and you have
to have some type of purpose. Something to just keep
striving for is, is is something that you really need
to try and try and do. And I remember I
started listening to an audiobook called, um, Atomic Habits. And, um,
(09:06):
you know, I'm not perfect. I try very hard to,
to try and form the habits. And I think forming
habits is a is a is a very important process
of of the recovery.
S2 (09:17):
It is really, really difficult to have not only a
job that is very, you know, by the nature of
the job, there's an element of risk constantly. And then
to layer that on a very physical altercation. So naturally
being able to go back into that environment is just difficult.
(09:38):
And there's there's not only the physical recovery, but then
you've got the psychological recovery. And I think that it's
important for people to also understand that this isn't just PTSD.
There's physical recovery and that's ongoing. And that's something that
also has had to be respected in the time that
it takes to recover.
S3 (09:58):
I've been injured a lot over the years. You know,
I had a tendon torn from my hand. I was
on worker's comp for that for six weeks, and then
I went straight back to work because it was a
completely different injury. Although, you know, I had major surgery
and a lot of stitches, it didn't affect me the
same way that this one did because this one affected
my speech, affected my taste, affected my smile. The tongue
(10:22):
still now has a burning sensation on it. And it's
a psychological battle with does it have a burning sensation,
or am I making up that it has a burning sensation?
You know, people look and say, well, your teeth look
okay now, but they're completely in a completely different shape.
When I eat, it's completely different. When I smile, it's
completely different. And there's a constant aching in the teeth
(10:42):
and aching in the jaw. And so it's a constant reminder. That's,
I think, the hardest thing with this particular incident.
S2 (10:48):
I can remember the session that you're talking about and
the activity that you did was unpack a box. And
I can remember that look almost of relief on your
face once you had completed that task. And if I
look back to when we did that task to where
(11:08):
you are now, I have just seen this incredible difference,
almost a sense of calm. You're very intentional now in
how you run your day. It's something that people can
really learn from that your intention every day to have
that routine, you go out and you give back to
the community. You volunteer your time freely. All of those
(11:32):
small things I have seen create real change for you.
S3 (11:36):
Yeah, it's a it's a really long process and it's
it's easy to paint a pretty picture. I mean, it
hasn't been pretty. It's, it's I still get days when
you can be very hard on yourself. And, um, I
think a lot of the courses I've been doing and,
and things I've been learning and the self-help books and
things that I learn along the way is just be
kind to yourself. You know, if there's something that you
(11:58):
don't quite get right, say to yourself, well, I tried it. Um,
I gave it a go and and yeah, it didn't work.
But it's an easy thing to do, I suppose, is
just to curl up and feel sorry for yourself and
it can drag you down. But if that's one word
of advice I could ever give anybody, it's to be kind.
S2 (12:15):
Could you be able to explain how you ended up
doing the volunteering that you that you're doing?
S3 (12:22):
Well, one day I pulled up here at Caremore, where
I always free camp, and there was a a couple
of signs up that were, um, saying that the rotary
were picking up litter in the area. So I thought, well,
something I can do. I don't particularly have to be social.
I just grab a stick and walk along and pick
the litter up. So I just grabbed a bag and
(12:43):
joined in. And then afterwards, just across from where I
parked my van, there's a little cafe and they said, oh,
you know, would you like to come and join us
for a coffee afterwards? You know, and I was, I was,
you know, very apprehensive about it. But what was good
was they were all older folk and, um, you know, they,
they they were, they were really they were almost gentle,
(13:04):
you know, and so it was a really good introduction and,
and um, they said, oh, look, we do this on a,
on a reasonably regular basis. Um, would you like to, um,
come and volunteer? And I said, well, I can't really
make any commitments, but, um, how can I find out
when you, when you're doing these particular events? And they said, oh, well,
we start a thing on, um, WhatsApp. So what we
(13:24):
do is we post that we meet at a particular
car park on a particular day, um, at a particular time,
and it's up to you if you want to, if
you want to come along and give us a hand. And, um,
and that's how it progressed. And, you know, I missed
last Thursday. I missed the Thursday before because I went
to the I went to the dawn service and, um,
(13:45):
I ended up being going to Wollongong Hospital because I
collapsed at the dawn service. I fainted, so I woke
up in and we were going hospital and I missed
the litter picking that day. But. But it's really good.
And and they're just a bunch of, of local pensioners that, um,
that work in and around the area and they do
something that, you know, I feel is giving back a
little bit as well, you know, because I free camp,
(14:06):
I don't, um, I don't pay to stay in a,
in a, in a campsite because, you know, that works
out very expensive when you do that. So because I'm
free camp and the council seem to leave me alone
and you know, this, this, this, um, an amazing cold
en suite that's here in the in the car park.
You know, there's a shower and a and a toilet and, um, and. Yeah,
(14:26):
I suppose because I'm allowed to use that, I, I,
I pick up litter, you know, um, almost every day
I get up and, you know, clean up this area
and walk along the beach and it kind of it's, um,
it's quite relaxing. It's again, that's a mindset thing too, though,
because when I first started doing it, I and this
was the PTSD was I would get I would get
(14:47):
really angry. I'd go, why do these people throw cigarette
butts down? Why do they throw their litter on the ground?
You know, when I started finding that, I was getting
angry and really agitated by it, and then I went, whoa,
hang on, you're supposed to do this to kind of, like,
help you unwind a little bit. Maybe you look at
it as I'm cleaning up the beach for the next person,
(15:09):
rather than I'm picking up litter that people have dropped
on the ground, you know? So I kind of had
to change my my way of thinking to, to accommodate
doing the job because PTSD was beginning to build up again,
you know.
S2 (15:22):
And how did you do that? Like, how did you
know that you needed to change that mindset? Because, Alex,
it is not easy. And you're talking about something that
is so hard to even see that insight to get
out of. So you're talking about something that you have
an injury that really can keep you stuck. And here
(15:44):
you are. You are telling us about, you know, being
kind to yourself. You've got that insight, which isn't easy.
Then you're proactively giving back. You're now doing the litter
picking and you are moving forward in this recovery journey.
But how did you know?
S3 (16:02):
Well, you know, I set out to do this litter
picking to make me feel better and to, um, you know,
give back a little bit. And then I suddenly found
myself getting really angry and like. And then I had
to stop myself and go, hang on, this is not
doing you any good. You are. You're going back down
the PTSD path. I recently went to Saint John of God, and, um,
I learned a lot there about, um, a thing called suds,
(16:26):
which is basically a scale of of 0 to 10,
and particularly for people with PTSD. So you wake up
in the morning and you and you scale yourself and
you say, okay, what are my suds today? Am I
really agitated or with PTSD? It can go either way.
You can either get really angry or you can get
really depressed. So there's a sad scale which basically goes
(16:49):
north to ten, but it also has a minor scale
to it as well. So if you're feeling depressed you
might go, I'm feeling -3 or -4 today, which really
worked for me because, you know, uh, I can go from,
you know, being very, very calm and mellow to being very,
very angry. And then what happened was that the Saint
John of God thing, what it did is it identified
(17:11):
that if you're working towards the the latter end of
the scale. So if you're anything from, say, eight through
to the ten, you're not even able to reason or,
or even comprehend people talking to you. You get to
that point where you are just like out of control.
You you can have someone being really reasonable to you,
(17:32):
but because you are at that end of the scale,
people talking to you means nothing to you. And so I,
I got into so much strife towards that latter end
of the scale. And I didn't recognize that, that I
go away, I defuse, I think about it, but by
then the damage is done. And I never realized just
how you get so out of control in that later,
(17:54):
later scale of the Suns. And so that's been a
big help. You know I now I'm I'm able to
identify when I'm starting to to aim towards that. You
know uh eight nine and ten and where I'm totally
out of control.
S2 (18:08):
And what would you do, Alex, as far as having
that routine, being kind to yourself, doing the exercise, all
of those things that are important, they they create that
safety that I'm okay, I get up, I do this,
I do that when we're out of routine, it actually
can make us feel really unsafe. Which is why when
you take work away and you take your friends away
(18:30):
and you take that routine away, it can make us
feel worse than we need to. Yeah. What does the
future look like for you now? What does that journey
look like for you?
S3 (18:44):
Well, I think the whole journey for me now, because,
I mean, I'm 60 years old, so, um, I've got grandkids,
you know, I've got a sick mum over in, over
in the UK. I've got, um, sister who's just been
diagnosed with cancer. So it's like there's a lot going on.
And I realise now I can live on a shoestring.
I realise I can live, you know, in a van.
(19:04):
It doesn't cost me a lot of money to live. I,
I want to do a lot of, um, community volunteer work, and, um,
I want to be in a position whereby I'm almost self-sufficient.
I don't have to rely on workers comp to give
me a check every, every fortnight that, however, I'm going
to do it with my money in the bank that
I'm able to be self-sufficient. That's what I'm aiming at doing.
(19:27):
And then I'd like to put a bit back in.
I'd like to do talks on PTSD, and I'd like to, um,
try and educate some people on, on just the whole
processes and what happens to you and, and how it
affects you. It's it's a silent injury that people just
don't see. And, um, I mean, you know, it's all
my marriage apart. It's all my home life apart, like,
(19:49):
my life completely changed. Like, um, you know, I lived
in a really nice suburb in a really nice house
with a beautiful type of lifestyle. I was enjoying my career.
I had a I had a very successful, you know,
wife and we'd been married, you know, 12, 13 years. Um,
and then it all just came all tumbling down. And, um,
(20:10):
so for me now for me is to be around
for my grandkids and, and, and my kids and trying
to show them that, you know, you can sink to
the bottom, but you can, you know, Bob, back up
to the top and and keep going. So for me,
that's a really important thing I like as a role
model for my kids and a role model for my grandkids.
(20:31):
I want them to at least say, well, you know,
he he's he's come back from a lot, but he's
he's not given up. You know, you know, I think
being a kid that's always been in me, it's always
been like, don't just don't give up. Just keep going,
keep going. And um, you know, eventually you get there.
It's hard mentally, um, to stay strong, you know, because
people would look at you and go, well, there's nothing
(20:51):
wrong with you. Like, you appear okay. There's. But yeah,
they don't know what's going on inside your head or,
you know, in my case, I couldn't do my exercise
anymore to to control my anger. And my anger was
just building up and and I didn't know where my
anger was coming from. And, um, it was all these
unanswered questions, I suppose. And and now over, over this
(21:12):
period of time, I've started to really piece it all
together and, um, start putting together a lot of the
bits of the jigsaw puzzle, you know, because for me,
this is priceless. Being here down at the beach, I
enjoy walking around with no shoes on now, you know,
feeling my feet on the sand and, uh, and, you know,
looking at the weather and taking notes of the weather. And, um,
I've got different priorities in life now.
S2 (21:34):
Um, does anybody have any questions for Alex? Yeah.
S4 (21:39):
Alex, going back to the situation where you were at
a cafe, I think. And, um, you thought somebody was
a threat to you? Yeah. How do you now differentiate
other people's true intentions, whether they are a threat or
whether you're overreacting, because that's something that might help me understand.
S3 (22:04):
I can I can go through that in quite detail
on what I use now. So so what I do
is I have to tell myself almost every couple of
minutes if I'm in a situation where every couple of seconds,
if I'm in a situation where I'm slightly apprehensive, is
I'm safe, I'm no longer in a work environment. I'm
now in a safe place where the likelihood of me
(22:27):
getting attacked is very minuscule. And if I do, or
if I am attacked, at least I know how to
handle myself. But I, I, I no longer stand in
front of someone and look at where their eyes are looking,
or whether or not their shoulder has come back, or
whether or not they've taken a step back and gone
(22:49):
into a boxing stance. Because I'm no longer in a
work environment where I have to use that, and I
have to constantly tell myself that, Alex, the likelihood of
you getting attacked walking along a beach or in a
shopping center is minuscule, and just keep reassuring yourself that
you're safe. That's how I do it. Yeah.
S4 (23:09):
Okay. In my case, it was more manipulation and abuse,
and it makes it hard to trust people, that's all.
S3 (23:16):
Yeah, well, you know what? I think you've always got
to step back and say. Until that person crosses me,
I'm going to have to trust them, because otherwise every
single person we meet, we would be we would mistrust.
And and there's there's a lot of people in this world,
and that means there's a lot of mistrust, you know,
and And I fully understand, like the mindset. It's just
(23:38):
a little bit of change in the mindset, I think,
and just practicing it right. And, and, and mix in
with people who you do trust.
S2 (23:46):
It's a really good point because when we have a
a psychological injury, our brain is designed to look for
danger and it gets really hard to untangle that mess.
And Alex is right, having to remind yourself that wherever
the situation of distress was caused, whether it was a
workplace bullying and harassment, whatever, that doesn't mean that it's everybody.
(24:11):
It means that that was an incident that happened. And
that's why we always talk about the social recovery, because
it was a situation that was caused between you and
some other people. And it doesn't mean that that's everybody.
But it does require the work to remind yourself that
you're safe. Surround yourself with people who are kind to you,
and slowly repair that self-esteem and that confidence, because the
(24:34):
brain wants to keep telling you you're not safe when
you actually are. We want to thank Alex for talking
to us today. Some of the highlights of today's conversation
for me was the importance of having a community around you,
being able to socialize with others and not being scared
to do that. The importance of having a routine and
also maintaining that level of purpose. If you are experiencing
(24:59):
any of the symptoms of PTSD or would just like
to talk to someone and you feel you might like
to talk to us in our community, then please reach
out because we're here to help.
S1 (25:10):
Well, you've been listening. You may have found some of
these concepts challenging, so if you are needing help, please
reach out. For more information, you can follow us on
our socials or if you require urgent support, please reach
out to the police or the ambulance on 000 lifeline
on 13 1114. That's 13 1114 Beyondblue on 1300 224 636. That's 1300 224 636.
(25:40):
The 24 hour mental health access line, which is one
800 015, double one. That's one 800 015, double one.
And if you think you could benefit from some legal advice,
reach out to the Iro. Who could recommend some lawyers
or someone to help you with your current legal case.
Thank you for joining us and we'll be back next time.
Hello and welcome to the My Social Support Network podcast,
a series to guide you along the path to recovery
while on workers compensation. In this series, we will answer
questions from you and provide information from experts and people
with lived experience currently going through worker's compensation and those
who have made their way to the other side. Through
these interactions, we'll be giving you tools, advice, but most importantly,
(00:24):
encouragement on what can be a stressful time when you're
also recovering from an injury sustained in your workplace. On
today's program, we're going to be speaking about PTSD. The
definition of PTSD is a psychiatric disorder that may occur
in people who have experienced or witnessed a traumatic, life
threatening event. Alex was diagnosed with PTSD following a life
(00:46):
threatening incident at work which changed his life both physically
and mentally. We're now joined Alex in conversation with the
My Social Support Network founder, Caroline Howell.
S2 (00:56):
Welcome to another episode of My Social Support Network. We
are talking today to Alex. Alex is one of the
My Social Support network members. He's had an injury since 2018,
and what we wanted to understand from his perspective is
his journey with PTSD over this time. So let's jump
straight into it and have a chat to Alex. You know, Alex,
(01:18):
you have had a very long journey in the workers
compensation scheme. And the recovery journey has also been long. Yeah,
it might be helpful to just have a little bit
of a context as to what happened. How did you
end up here?
S3 (01:37):
Okay, so I worked for Corrective Services for um for
a lot of years. I ended up coming back and
working for them as a as a casual. Subsequently, they
as soon as I came back, they gave me my
old role back, which was in the, in the transport department.
And I went over to Parklea jail. Uh, one morning
I was with an, an experienced officer who really shouldn't
(01:58):
have been doing the role. And, um, we were searching
an inmate ready to take him to court, and, uh,
the inmate totally went off tap, and, um, you know,
started becoming very, very abusive. But we had to continue
the search. There were a number of protocols that weren't followed,
basically because it was an inexperienced staff member I was with.
And also I was in a private jail, and their
(02:21):
security isn't as good as the government jail was. But anyway,
to cut a long story short, the search went horribly wrong.
I ended up getting, um, kicked in the face. loading
this particular inmate onto the track, and I broke, um,
numerous bottom teeth and, um, damaged my jaw and my tongue.
And from, you know, that incident I ended up with
(02:42):
the PTSD.
S2 (02:43):
Thank you for sharing that. You have had the opportunity
to learn a great deal over the time. And what
I thought would be lovely is to, I guess if
there are other injured workers out there that have or
are currently experiencing PTSD, what are some of the things
(03:06):
that you have learned in your journey that may be
helpful for other injured workers? You know, people who are
not connected to a community. They're not connected to anybody.
They might need some help. What are some of the
things that could be helpful for them?
S3 (03:23):
Yeah, I think the first thing that's very hard with
PTSD is recognizing you've even got it. So, um, for me,
it was a whole multiple, um, series of incidents that
formulated and then one day, bang. Um, you know, the
one incident set me off. So a part of the
(03:44):
PTSD is recognizing that when you have it, you know, um,
it's very easy just to ignore it or pretend you
haven't got it. And, um, you know, there's there's lots
of little signs. There's lots of things that that indicate
that you have PTSD.
S2 (03:57):
When when you're talking about all those little incidences, was
that what you you mean that there were a number
of little things, and then all of a sudden there
was one incident that actually triggered an event that made
you realize you needed some help.
S3 (04:09):
Yeah, yeah, it was, um, a particular injury that realized, whoa,
hang on, this is out of control. And it was
the nature of that particular injury that, um, that, that
kind of upset the apple cart, so to speak. A
lot of it for me was, was being able to
recognize that I had PTSD and then obviously go in and, and, um,
see a doctor and just talking to them about it
(04:31):
and And then, you know, when I look back, there
were so many, so many triggers and so many things
that were that were telling me that I had PTSD.
S2 (04:40):
People use the term PTSD a lot. It's not very
well understood. So when you're talking about PTSD, what were
some of the things you noticed were happening?
S3 (04:50):
Socially, I was becoming very awkward. I was very security aware.
So I would go out for a meal, and I
would always look at where I would sit in the restaurant.
I'd always make sure that I could see that door.
I then start doing security assessments on people that were
coming into the restaurant. I remember one particular case where
(05:11):
I went up to a shopping center, and I was
walking around the shopping center and a stocky young lad
that was of a similar race to the person that
assaulted me, came up and just asked the time. And
when he asked the time, you know, I stepped back.
I my hands went up. Everything that happened to me,
I just went into this defensive mode. And, you know,
I realized I was in a shopping center, you know,
(05:33):
I was in a perfectly safe environment. I was in
Saint Ives, you know, it's it's kind of an upmarket
type of an area. And, um, there was no need
to be like that. And, um, and yeah, it was
a big wake up call. And then, you know, from
that point on, I look back and there was a
lot of things that I was doing that were that
was that was pointing out to me that I did
(05:53):
have PTSD.
S2 (05:55):
How did you know when to ask for help?
S3 (05:59):
I think I just did a bit of a self-assessment
and I and I just went, Alex, it's not normal
what you're doing. Um, you really are a mess. Go
and talk to somebody about it. And I was very
lucky that my, um, local doctor, um, was a was
an ex-policeman. And, um, so he recognised straight away that,
you know, the symptoms that I had, and, um, he
(06:22):
helped me a lot, um, piece it together, you know.
S2 (06:24):
How long have you had your injury? For now.
S3 (06:27):
Well, I got injured in 2018.
S2 (06:30):
In all of that time. So now we're in 2024.
What do you think the three most helpful things have
been to help you recover?
S3 (06:42):
More social for sure. Talking to people. Because with the
PTSD you tend to just lock yourself away and basically hide. And, um,
you know, I'd always been quite a good communicator. I'd
always loved my sports. I'd always enjoyed my my work role. And, um,
all of a sudden, you know, that's all all taken
from you. And, um, before you know it, you're on
(07:02):
this real slippery path. You know, I was losing touch
with all my friends. I wasn't getting along very well
with my wife. Basically, my whole world shrunk.
S2 (07:12):
Apart from being more social. What were some of the
other things?
S3 (07:17):
Well, for me, getting out there and doing some type
of physical exercise or trying to maintain the things that
I did pre PTSD, I enjoyed motorcycling and so I
would constantly go out on the motorcycle, but you know,
with the PTSD it leads to you doing things very recklessly.
And you know for me that was a big a
(07:38):
big part of me. I would go out and I'd
really push the envelope. So try not to be really,
really hard on yourself. I remember I did an exercise
with you one time just tidying up a room. I
might have been at my daughter's place, you know, and
my room was a mess. And I remember you talking
me through the whole process of cleaning it up, and
I and I did it, and I felt I felt
good when I'd done it, you know, it was, um,
(08:00):
like a small little step. You know, I remember I
put a Facebook video post, post out when I first got, um,
PTSD and, um, I had a lot of people contact
me about it and they said, it comes in waves,
you know, it comes up and down you. One minute
you're okay, the next minute you can just plummet down
to a really low self-esteem. So for me, forming some
(08:22):
type of habit is always a good thing. You know,
I try and set myself a bit of a routine.
I'm living in, in a, in a van now, which
makes it a little bit harder. But what I do
is I try and go to bed or close down
when when the lights go down and then get up
first light. It's a little bit hard sometimes because you
go to bed very early and of course, you know,
they tell you not to play on your phone or
(08:43):
watch TV or whatever when you, when you go to bed,
because otherwise, you know, your brain is racing. So I
think you have to try and socialize and you have
to have some type of purpose. Something to just keep
striving for is, is is something that you really need
to try and try and do. And I remember I
started listening to an audiobook called, um, Atomic Habits. And, um,
(09:06):
you know, I'm not perfect. I try very hard to,
to try and form the habits. And I think forming
habits is a is a is a very important process
of of the recovery.
S2 (09:17):
It is really, really difficult to have not only a
job that is very, you know, by the nature of
the job, there's an element of risk constantly. And then
to layer that on a very physical altercation. So naturally
being able to go back into that environment is just difficult.
(09:38):
And there's there's not only the physical recovery, but then
you've got the psychological recovery. And I think that it's
important for people to also understand that this isn't just PTSD.
There's physical recovery and that's ongoing. And that's something that
also has had to be respected in the time that
it takes to recover.
S3 (09:58):
I've been injured a lot over the years. You know,
I had a tendon torn from my hand. I was
on worker's comp for that for six weeks, and then
I went straight back to work because it was a
completely different injury. Although, you know, I had major surgery
and a lot of stitches, it didn't affect me the
same way that this one did because this one affected
my speech, affected my taste, affected my smile. The tongue
(10:22):
still now has a burning sensation on it. And it's
a psychological battle with does it have a burning sensation,
or am I making up that it has a burning sensation?
You know, people look and say, well, your teeth look
okay now, but they're completely in a completely different shape.
When I eat, it's completely different. When I smile, it's
completely different. And there's a constant aching in the teeth
(10:42):
and aching in the jaw. And so it's a constant reminder. That's,
I think, the hardest thing with this particular incident.
S2 (10:48):
I can remember the session that you're talking about and
the activity that you did was unpack a box. And
I can remember that look almost of relief on your
face once you had completed that task. And if I
look back to when we did that task to where
(11:08):
you are now, I have just seen this incredible difference,
almost a sense of calm. You're very intentional now in
how you run your day. It's something that people can
really learn from that your intention every day to have
that routine, you go out and you give back to
the community. You volunteer your time freely. All of those
(11:32):
small things I have seen create real change for you.
S3 (11:36):
Yeah, it's a it's a really long process and it's
it's easy to paint a pretty picture. I mean, it
hasn't been pretty. It's, it's I still get days when
you can be very hard on yourself. And, um, I
think a lot of the courses I've been doing and,
and things I've been learning and the self-help books and
things that I learn along the way is just be
kind to yourself. You know, if there's something that you
(11:58):
don't quite get right, say to yourself, well, I tried it. Um,
I gave it a go and and yeah, it didn't work.
But it's an easy thing to do, I suppose, is
just to curl up and feel sorry for yourself and
it can drag you down. But if that's one word
of advice I could ever give anybody, it's to be kind.
S2 (12:15):
Could you be able to explain how you ended up
doing the volunteering that you that you're doing?
S3 (12:22):
Well, one day I pulled up here at Caremore, where
I always free camp, and there was a a couple
of signs up that were, um, saying that the rotary
were picking up litter in the area. So I thought, well,
something I can do. I don't particularly have to be social.
I just grab a stick and walk along and pick
the litter up. So I just grabbed a bag and
(12:43):
joined in. And then afterwards, just across from where I
parked my van, there's a little cafe and they said, oh,
you know, would you like to come and join us
for a coffee afterwards? You know, and I was, I was,
you know, very apprehensive about it. But what was good
was they were all older folk and, um, you know, they,
they they were, they were really they were almost gentle,
(13:04):
you know, and so it was a really good introduction and,
and um, they said, oh, look, we do this on a,
on a reasonably regular basis. Um, would you like to, um,
come and volunteer? And I said, well, I can't really
make any commitments, but, um, how can I find out
when you, when you're doing these particular events? And they said, oh, well,
we start a thing on, um, WhatsApp. So what we
(13:24):
do is we post that we meet at a particular
car park on a particular day, um, at a particular time,
and it's up to you if you want to, if
you want to come along and give us a hand. And, um,
and that's how it progressed. And, you know, I missed
last Thursday. I missed the Thursday before because I went
to the I went to the dawn service and, um,
(13:45):
I ended up being going to Wollongong Hospital because I
collapsed at the dawn service. I fainted, so I woke
up in and we were going hospital and I missed
the litter picking that day. But. But it's really good.
And and they're just a bunch of, of local pensioners that, um,
that work in and around the area and they do
something that, you know, I feel is giving back a
little bit as well, you know, because I free camp,
(14:06):
I don't, um, I don't pay to stay in a,
in a, in a campsite because, you know, that works
out very expensive when you do that. So because I'm
free camp and the council seem to leave me alone
and you know, this, this, this, um, an amazing cold
en suite that's here in the in the car park.
You know, there's a shower and a and a toilet and, um, and. Yeah,
(14:26):
I suppose because I'm allowed to use that, I, I,
I pick up litter, you know, um, almost every day
I get up and, you know, clean up this area
and walk along the beach and it kind of it's, um,
it's quite relaxing. It's again, that's a mindset thing too, though,
because when I first started doing it, I and this
was the PTSD was I would get I would get
(14:47):
really angry. I'd go, why do these people throw cigarette
butts down? Why do they throw their litter on the ground?
You know, when I started finding that, I was getting
angry and really agitated by it, and then I went, whoa,
hang on, you're supposed to do this to kind of, like,
help you unwind a little bit. Maybe you look at
it as I'm cleaning up the beach for the next person,
(15:09):
rather than I'm picking up litter that people have dropped
on the ground, you know? So I kind of had
to change my my way of thinking to, to accommodate
doing the job because PTSD was beginning to build up again,
you know.
S2 (15:22):
And how did you do that? Like, how did you
know that you needed to change that mindset? Because, Alex,
it is not easy. And you're talking about something that
is so hard to even see that insight to get
out of. So you're talking about something that you have
an injury that really can keep you stuck. And here
(15:44):
you are. You are telling us about, you know, being
kind to yourself. You've got that insight, which isn't easy.
Then you're proactively giving back. You're now doing the litter
picking and you are moving forward in this recovery journey.
But how did you know?
S3 (16:02):
Well, you know, I set out to do this litter
picking to make me feel better and to, um, you know,
give back a little bit. And then I suddenly found
myself getting really angry and like. And then I had
to stop myself and go, hang on, this is not
doing you any good. You are. You're going back down
the PTSD path. I recently went to Saint John of God, and, um,
I learned a lot there about, um, a thing called suds,
(16:26):
which is basically a scale of of 0 to 10,
and particularly for people with PTSD. So you wake up
in the morning and you and you scale yourself and
you say, okay, what are my suds today? Am I
really agitated or with PTSD? It can go either way.
You can either get really angry or you can get
really depressed. So there's a sad scale which basically goes
(16:49):
north to ten, but it also has a minor scale
to it as well. So if you're feeling depressed you
might go, I'm feeling -3 or -4 today, which really
worked for me because, you know, uh, I can go from,
you know, being very, very calm and mellow to being very,
very angry. And then what happened was that the Saint
John of God thing, what it did is it identified
(17:11):
that if you're working towards the the latter end of
the scale. So if you're anything from, say, eight through
to the ten, you're not even able to reason or,
or even comprehend people talking to you. You get to
that point where you are just like out of control.
You you can have someone being really reasonable to you,
(17:32):
but because you are at that end of the scale,
people talking to you means nothing to you. And so I,
I got into so much strife towards that latter end
of the scale. And I didn't recognize that, that I
go away, I defuse, I think about it, but by
then the damage is done. And I never realized just
how you get so out of control in that later,
(17:54):
later scale of the Suns. And so that's been a
big help. You know I now I'm I'm able to
identify when I'm starting to to aim towards that. You
know uh eight nine and ten and where I'm totally
out of control.
S2 (18:08):
And what would you do, Alex, as far as having
that routine, being kind to yourself, doing the exercise, all
of those things that are important, they they create that
safety that I'm okay, I get up, I do this,
I do that when we're out of routine, it actually
can make us feel really unsafe. Which is why when
you take work away and you take your friends away
(18:30):
and you take that routine away, it can make us
feel worse than we need to. Yeah. What does the
future look like for you now? What does that journey
look like for you?
S3 (18:44):
Well, I think the whole journey for me now, because,
I mean, I'm 60 years old, so, um, I've got grandkids,
you know, I've got a sick mum over in, over
in the UK. I've got, um, sister who's just been
diagnosed with cancer. So it's like there's a lot going on.
And I realise now I can live on a shoestring.
I realise I can live, you know, in a van.
(19:04):
It doesn't cost me a lot of money to live. I,
I want to do a lot of, um, community volunteer work, and, um,
I want to be in a position whereby I'm almost self-sufficient.
I don't have to rely on workers comp to give
me a check every, every fortnight that, however, I'm going
to do it with my money in the bank that
I'm able to be self-sufficient. That's what I'm aiming at doing.
(19:27):
And then I'd like to put a bit back in.
I'd like to do talks on PTSD, and I'd like to, um,
try and educate some people on, on just the whole
processes and what happens to you and, and how it
affects you. It's it's a silent injury that people just
don't see. And, um, I mean, you know, it's all
my marriage apart. It's all my home life apart, like,
(19:49):
my life completely changed. Like, um, you know, I lived
in a really nice suburb in a really nice house
with a beautiful type of lifestyle. I was enjoying my career.
I had a I had a very successful, you know,
wife and we'd been married, you know, 12, 13 years. Um,
and then it all just came all tumbling down. And, um,
(20:10):
so for me now for me is to be around
for my grandkids and, and, and my kids and trying
to show them that, you know, you can sink to
the bottom, but you can, you know, Bob, back up
to the top and and keep going. So for me,
that's a really important thing I like as a role
model for my kids and a role model for my grandkids.
(20:31):
I want them to at least say, well, you know,
he he's he's come back from a lot, but he's
he's not given up. You know, you know, I think
being a kid that's always been in me, it's always
been like, don't just don't give up. Just keep going,
keep going. And um, you know, eventually you get there.
It's hard mentally, um, to stay strong, you know, because
people would look at you and go, well, there's nothing
(20:51):
wrong with you. Like, you appear okay. There's. But yeah,
they don't know what's going on inside your head or,
you know, in my case, I couldn't do my exercise
anymore to to control my anger. And my anger was
just building up and and I didn't know where my
anger was coming from. And, um, it was all these
unanswered questions, I suppose. And and now over, over this
(21:12):
period of time, I've started to really piece it all
together and, um, start putting together a lot of the
bits of the jigsaw puzzle, you know, because for me,
this is priceless. Being here down at the beach, I
enjoy walking around with no shoes on now, you know,
feeling my feet on the sand and, uh, and, you know,
looking at the weather and taking notes of the weather. And, um,
I've got different priorities in life now.
S2 (21:34):
Um, does anybody have any questions for Alex? Yeah.
S4 (21:39):
Alex, going back to the situation where you were at
a cafe, I think. And, um, you thought somebody was
a threat to you? Yeah. How do you now differentiate
other people's true intentions, whether they are a threat or
whether you're overreacting, because that's something that might help me understand.
S3 (22:04):
I can I can go through that in quite detail
on what I use now. So so what I do
is I have to tell myself almost every couple of
minutes if I'm in a situation where every couple of seconds,
if I'm in a situation where I'm slightly apprehensive, is
I'm safe, I'm no longer in a work environment. I'm
now in a safe place where the likelihood of me
(22:27):
getting attacked is very minuscule. And if I do, or
if I am attacked, at least I know how to
handle myself. But I, I, I no longer stand in
front of someone and look at where their eyes are looking,
or whether or not their shoulder has come back, or
whether or not they've taken a step back and gone
(22:49):
into a boxing stance. Because I'm no longer in a
work environment where I have to use that, and I
have to constantly tell myself that, Alex, the likelihood of
you getting attacked walking along a beach or in a
shopping center is minuscule, and just keep reassuring yourself that
you're safe. That's how I do it. Yeah.
S4 (23:09):
Okay. In my case, it was more manipulation and abuse,
and it makes it hard to trust people, that's all.
S3 (23:16):
Yeah, well, you know what? I think you've always got
to step back and say. Until that person crosses me,
I'm going to have to trust them, because otherwise every
single person we meet, we would be we would mistrust.
And and there's there's a lot of people in this world,
and that means there's a lot of mistrust, you know,
and And I fully understand, like the mindset. It's just
(23:38):
a little bit of change in the mindset, I think,
and just practicing it right. And, and, and mix in
with people who you do trust.
S2 (23:46):
It's a really good point because when we have a
a psychological injury, our brain is designed to look for
danger and it gets really hard to untangle that mess.
And Alex is right, having to remind yourself that wherever
the situation of distress was caused, whether it was a
workplace bullying and harassment, whatever, that doesn't mean that it's everybody.
(24:11):
It means that that was an incident that happened. And
that's why we always talk about the social recovery, because
it was a situation that was caused between you and
some other people. And it doesn't mean that that's everybody.
But it does require the work to remind yourself that
you're safe. Surround yourself with people who are kind to you,
and slowly repair that self-esteem and that confidence, because the
(24:34):
brain wants to keep telling you you're not safe when
you actually are. We want to thank Alex for talking
to us today. Some of the highlights of today's conversation
for me was the importance of having a community around you,
being able to socialize with others and not being scared
to do that. The importance of having a routine and
also maintaining that level of purpose. If you are experiencing
(24:59):
any of the symptoms of PTSD or would just like
to talk to someone and you feel you might like
to talk to us in our community, then please reach
out because we're here to help.
S1 (25:10):
Well, you've been listening. You may have found some of
these concepts challenging, so if you are needing help, please
reach out. For more information, you can follow us on
our socials or if you require urgent support, please reach
out to the police or the ambulance on 000 lifeline
on 13 1114. That's 13 1114 Beyondblue on 1300 224 636. That's 1300 224 636.
(25:40):
The 24 hour mental health access line, which is one
800 015, double one. That's one 800 015, double one.
And if you think you could benefit from some legal advice,
reach out to the Iro. Who could recommend some lawyers
or someone to help you with your current legal case.
Thank you for joining us and we'll be back next time.
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